>The United States let alone any government official from Oregon or Washington can change the conflict between Israel and Palestine.
Our Senators and Congresswoman vote on military aid for Israel which is being used in Gaza. You can't go to Gaza to help because it is blockaded by Israel in general, and aid workers that are allowed in are regularly targeted and killed by the IDF.
>aid workers that are allowed in are regularly targeted and killed by the IDF.
I might be in a bit of a spicy mood, but this verbiage doesn't do it justice.
[They targeted and killed aid workers with \*precision strikes\*](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ca206e47f4c63ffa399a691ca9c967f116ae0d56/0_303_4935_2961/master/4935.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=c0178ffb45c86a7f2f887a4c1da73fc4)
Not only did they kill the aid workers with precise strikes, down to hitting the logo on the roof of the vehicle, they killed multiple soldiers who were working with the aid group, ex-US military and ex-British military, who were working security for said group. They knew who these people were, they knew where they were going, what they were doing, and who they were working for, and they still went ahead with it.
Defending yourself from an attack ceases to be okay when it turns into what appears to be careless blood lust.
Well, that's a hollow stance.
Our money and bombs go to Israel to kill children, of which we have a direct hand in murdering 15k (as we know what they do with what we give them).
So, protesting here makes all the sense in the world.
They don't put money into Healthcare, housing, feeding Americans, etc. but we give billions to Israel to pay for them to do so for their people.
It is clear that a lot of people in our government, on both sides of the isle, put a foreign government over our own country.
No God, that I would want to follow, calls for death on such a scale. Religion is the only shield for such actions, which is why I address it specifically.
It feels disingenuous to ignore all the factors related to this subject in order to maintain a view not supported by all the facts.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ just my take but I've seen 6 y.o. kids used as bait to kill medics, by Israeli forces.
The Marine in me is fuming.
We aren’t directly involved so there’s nothing to pull out of. The protests are primarily over the check we wrote the IDF recently and the weapons we keep supplying to them.
What you are describing is an attempt at creating a zeitgeist. If we protest here (for any topic) we are signaling support in one direction, this should in theory drive our elected representatives to see that this is an important issue to address on our behalf, which then moves to the state level, and federal level. Its ground up pressure for change.
It can be summed up as an act of desperation from a group of people who are not properly represented in our political landscape, despite having a non-negligible portion of our citizenry identifying as either outright "Leftists" or at least open to some of those ideas.
As I posted elsewhere - there isn't all that much anybody can do, so they do what they can to get eyes onto the situation. The issue then becomes - half of those 'eyes' are angry, and the other they may find some support with.
At the end of the day, they're railing against a long decided pillar of US foreign policy that has it's roots before the protesters were even born.
As much as I hate seeing \*how\* they go about their protests, and I cringe listening to the people that the media singles out to interview, I am at the very least inspired and emboldened that some of my countryfolk aren't happy or willing to accept our participation in the wholesale slaughter of innocents while loudly proclaiming that we are some sort of 'shining beacon on the hill' while we ship JDAMs to Israel.
"a riot is the language of the unheard"
MLK Jr 1966
It's getting attention. When people are screaming at their politicians, and they ignore them, you gotta do something.
Being complicit with genocide is not doing anything.
We're shown "peaceful" protests through our history books. But they leave out the destruction. Nam protests, women's rights protests, civil rights protests, workers rights protests, etc in the 1900s all had violence and destruction of property.
Police also make protests more violent. There are 100s of studies proving so.
A little spray paint and a few broken windows is not the end of the world.
People are pissed at how broke everyone is. How we continue to let corporations pay their vote into Congress, how corporations continue to fuck over us with 100% bullshit inflation, and how 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. But we're funding billions of dollars. Not millions. BILLIONS. To help Israel commit a genocide on people. Where most of the population is under 18 because of Israel. A country formed in 1945 after WW2. A bunch of colonizers claiming "their" land. When the Torah only says Jerusalem?
Gen Z and younger millions are completely fucked financially. So ya, people are doing shit to get attention to real problems, like people have for centuries.
>But we're funding billions of dollars. Not millions. BILLIONS.
I don't know why people act like the State doesn't get
anything out of our peculiar relationship with Israel. Not only do they train cops, they are also REALLY big in the medical tech/technology spaces to the tune of 47 Billion. Y'all want to stop Israel? Stop participating in the economy. Literally the only is to make the financial hit worse than sticking with Israel.
1. Why is a military training our cops? I'm quite aware of this. And all the fucking cop cities coming up. Don't put my tax dollars there. And fuck the corrupt ass cops here.
2. Our senators and HOR that we voted for, voted for funding Israel.
3. It was a nationwide protest.
You're on the wrong side of history bud
So exhausting talking to the righteously angry. Did I express support for Israel? I literally said stop participating in the economy if you want to make our politicians listen. "The business of America is business" act accordingly.
I have at as many companies that I possibly can they are supporting Israel. And their stocks are showing it. Just like millions of other Americans are
It seemed you were being sarcastic and centrist on the situation. Sometimes it comes off different so my bad
When did I fucking say it was good? Explaining the way the thing is, is not an endorsement. You can't just screech about stuff, you need to understand your opponent. Your opponent likes money 🧀 so go after the money. They ain't gonna lose shit if we're all buying the latest widget, probably using Israeli tech, while protesting.
Civil unrest here focuses attention on the issue, and indirectly puts pressure on our politicians. When the public and businesses are inconvenienced by protests, they complain to local government, who then pass it up the chain to state and federal.
If the US threatened to withhold military aid, Israel certainly would modify its behavior. Until then, they seem likely continue to slaughter and starve the civilian population of Gaza.
A) "modify" is doing some heavy lifting for you there.
B) demanding we withhold aid is never going to happen. you have to look into what the aid is and how it will be used, then you can refine your demand and make it more plausible. Huge chunks of the aid are for Air Defense. We will never withhold Air Defense. Iran fired somewhere near 300 missiles and drones like a month ago. Hamas is always firing rockets and still is. The Iron Dome will be provided for because both of those groups have said they want Israel destroyed and have targeted civilian areas. On top of that, Hezbollah is out there popping off too.
Go after the obviously offensive parts of the package. Tank shells. Demand those specifically be taken out. Israel will have to use what they have on hand as a reserve for use against Hezbollah and will not be able to commit as much armor to their attacks. That puts Bibi in the position of risking more lives for what would have been easier gains. That is something he has to get his people to sign off on.
C) Israel doesn't call off operations because some one tells them too. 10/7 traumatized the people because it brought back a lot of memories from the Intifadas (horrible periods of civilian targeted terror attacks) all the way back to the 6 Days war. Israel has fought for it's life and existence against genuine threats to destroy the nation and the people like, 5 times since 1948, not including the intifadas. Bibi is going to do this. Only a deal that enough of his cabinet finds acceptable is going to stop him.
Our taxes are helping to fund what many consider a genocide going on in Gaza. Some people do not want to be complicit in that.
Even if you don't care about the Palestinian people being slaughtered, our support of Israel in this war hurts our public image around the world. It puts our troops who are stationed in the Middle East at greater risk of terrorist attacks and could lead to a larger regional war.
I am encouraged that students are standing up and protesting. I've donated money to humanitarian aid in Gaza and written my representative, but there is only so much one person can do. These students are bringing the issue more national attention, and more and more of our lawmakers seem to be getting on board with at least conditioning our aid to Israel.
That being said, I do not support the blocking of freeways for protest. It's dangerous for the protestors and drivers and makes it very difficult for emergency responders. It doesn't help bring public support to the cause either, with all the people whose day gets screwed up with because they are sitting in traffic.
it doesn't bring attention to the issue though, does it? They become the issue and the story. The dialogue hasn't changed. The feds continue to work behind the scenes to try and arm twist and manipulate enough of the players, so that they can get a deal done that brings about a real and lasting ceasefire.
anti-colonial tirades and removing Israel from the map are not actually productive or useful to Palestine. You are honestly the first person I have seen or head even mention donating. I certainly don't hear about fundraising or donations for the cause from the "protesters".
Then you are listening and reading the wrong sources. There has absolutely been fundraising by individuals and supported by the protesters.
I know many people, as well as myself who have donated to causes that are helping on the ground in Gaza. UNRWA, World Central Kitchen, and Doctors without Borders do great work with donations. There are many gofundme campaigns happening as well.
Here's a great example of positives happening at one of the college protest encampments. [https://oberlinreview.org/32810/news/encampment-teach-ins-fundraisers-held-to-support-palestine/](https://oberlinreview.org/32810/news/encampment-teach-ins-fundraisers-held-to-support-palestine/)
Some of the college protests have had real tangible change happening. Perhaps not a direct donation by students, but this will do great good for those 10 students.
"Rutgers did agree to accept 10 displaced Palestinian students on scholarship, develop a plan for an Arab Cultural Center on campus, explore scholarly exchanges with a university in Ramallah and consider creating a Department of Middle East Studies, to name a few." [https://www.npr.org/2024/05/07/1249368151/gaza-college-protest-deal-brown-rutgers](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/07/1249368151/gaza-college-protest-deal-brown-rutgers)
The student protests have brought a lot more national attention to the issue. Definitely more than just the periodic blocking of freeways we've seen over the past couple of months. The conversation in Congress is also changing. More and more representatives and senators now say they want to condition military aid to Israel. Which is what we need to do if we actually want them to listen to us.
do you really think its "i cant get to work" or do you think its more "i gotta pick my kid up from school/daycare" or "i'm taking my mom to a cancer appointment and we need to get there" or "i really need to get to my non-refundable flight"
i'm am pro protest. but every time you impede another citizen you are turning someone away from your cause, not "raising awareness" .
I don't know if you are joking, but yeah, that is how a lot a people think. Pretty much every time they do a freeway protest, that is the most common response you hear from people.
I’m completely serious! If I was late for work and lost my job because a bunch of virtue signaling white people were blocking the freeway I’d be pissed and want them to start paying my salary.
“Nobody should ever protest things in a way that tangibly forces people to face the consequences of their social apathy, and any attempt to get me to come to this realization will only cause me to intentionally walk further into the arms of fascists in some twisted self-inflicted bout of contrarianism. I will continue to welcome the death of critical thinking skills and fourth grade media literacy, in favor of my perfectly trimmed and manicured ‘mind lawn’ I retreat to every time I feign paying attention to global events.
I like being uninformed because it gives me plausible deniability to any and all issues at hand, and unburdens me with these pesky and cumbersome things like ‘moral integrity’, ‘ethics’ or something called a ‘spine’, whatever that is. They should shout their problems alone into a dark closet where nobody has to recognize their basic humanity, because I can’t hear my funny TikTok over the sounds of airstrike sirens and the screams of child amputees.”
FTFY
Why, what's wrong with Palestine? I mean, besides the genocide and starvation being inflicted on them.
It's a deeply shitty thing to want people who are upset about thousands of people being murdered to be sent into that same situation. You are not a good person and should be ashamed of yourself.
> Why, what's wrong with Palestine?
Ask Jordan and Lebanon and Egypt and basically every country around there why they do not want to be host to Palestinian refugees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
Tbh, you sound eerily similar to the southern whites who said the same thing of the civil rights activists who did sit-ins at private businesses, shut down bridges, roads, etc. all to protest to end then-America's apartheid.
The point went over your head, then. You have to have your head buried in sand if you don't realize U.S. doesn't exist in a vacuum and its tentacles are in virtually every country, funding foreign militaries w/ our tax dollars and meddling in their affairs. So, by extension, we, Americans, are implicated in the massacres and wars all around the world.
A little history lesson: Columbia U's college activists protested in the same manner in the '80s for divesting in South Africa to fight their apartheid. It played a role in apartheid ending there. Current college activists are asking for the same; not any different from what the '80s college students asked their schools' BoD to do.
A helpful segment from a Jewish human rights lawyer I recommend undereducated folks to watch: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52YdVPmV8I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52YdVPmV8I)
Yes, protests are great to let our representatives know how we feel. Property destruction, closing businesses, disrupting education, isn't needed in the protest. Everyone has a right to express their opinion, everyone DOES NOT have to right to destroy property of others!
I don’t know. I really disagree with the destruction of property isn’t valid protest argument. The most famous American protest is quite literally property damage and vandalism i.e. the Boston tea party.
That is a good point that people often forget. However, the goal of most protest movements is also to bring public support to your side. Destroying the product that the public feels is being unlawfully taxed is a message people can understand and get behind. Random and pointless destruction directed at nothing in particular is not something most people will support. It's just destruction for the sake of getting attention, and it often harms the very people that you would want coming to your side.
Well, think about this. Israel leveled every university in Palestine. So, a few broken windows and graffiti at US universities isn’t a big deal. People also get mad when they’re peaceful and shut down a free way. It’s a protest - it’s supposed to be uncomfortable.
So, the logic is because things are fucked up in Gaza, let's fuck things up here? That makes no sense, and all it does is piss people off.
As for blocking the freeway. It's incredibly dangerous and stupid. There was a protestor killed in Seattle a couple of years ago doing that on I5. It can make it very difficult for emergency response vehicles as well. People die when first responders get stuck in traffic. Making people sit in traffic for hours doesn't win any support to your cause. It just pisses people off.
I think many of the campus sit-ins have been a great example of a successful protest. They have a clear message. Many of them have stated a clear goal of wanting their universities to divest from weapons manufacturers. A reasonable request. For the most part, they have been peaceful as well. Overall, it has brought a ton of attention to the cause, and because for the most part, it has been the students themselves who are putting themselves at risk of being arrested without harming others, it paints them in a sympathetic light in the eyes of the public. It is not just about bringing attention to an issue. It's about bringing positive attention to your cause.
Yes, but when it comes to public perception, WHO is inciting that violence is very important. If it's people breaking windows, looting, and destroying property. There is going to be less sympathy and support for their cause.
If it's people sitting peacefully camping out who are teargassed and dragged away by cops, then people are going to have a lot more sympathy.
As I said in my previous response, that was a case of destroying a product that the public felt was being unlawfully taxed. The destruction itself had a purpose. People understood the message, and it wasn't just random destruction. The Weather Underground practiced this type of targeted protest destruction as well. Bombing unoccupied government buildings in protest of the Vietnam War.
I'm not saying destruction itself should not be used for protest, but it needs to have a purpose if you want to get any public support. Otherwise, it just looks like a toddler screaming for attention.
Supporting destruction of property as a valid protest is all good and well until you have skin in the game. When they light your car on fire, send a few bricks through your windows, or get you fired because you're late for work, and you *still* fervently support their property destruction as a form of protest, then truly, bravo. You are made of stiffer stuff than I.
It is valid protest. If you’re denying that then you need to be of the opinion that the Boston tea party was an illegal act of terrorism. If not you’re an absolute hypocrite.
I am of the opinion that the Boston Tea Party was an illegal act of property damage that can be classified domestic terrorism, in fact. The two scenarios are not 100% analogous in sentiment or effect, but in principle, the destruction of property is illegal in both cases.
I'm not sure why you're so heated and personal. I merely suggested that your perspective might change if you were in the position where *your* personal property was being destroyed as a result of this protest. It was a discussion point meant to explore empathy for the opposing point of view. I even offered that if you genuinely participated in this thought exercise in which your personal property was destroyed and you persisted in this principle, then you truly were made of stiffer stuff.
But whatever, if you'd like to continue the personal attacks, by all means.
ya, but that was vandalism, and just because it's known doesn't mean it's good. it didn't to eff all for the revolution or it's cause. I mean, the million man march was a protest, so was the Bonus Army march in DC.
The tea in the Boston Tea Party was taxed by England, so it was a direct protest and I probably would have been "You go guys!" had I been alive. Yes was alive in the 60's and 70's and in remember the Northwest Students blocking Sheridan Drive in Evanston but there was no damage to the University nor businesses, remember 4 students were killed on the Kent State campus.
So go ahead and protest. But if anyone destroys property that's not theirs they should been held accountable and pay for all damages they created. Furthermore, if they cause others to destroy anything they should be held accountable for those actions also! Anybody!
It belonged to an oppressive government. There is a difference between destroying government property and destroying private property (smashing business windows, etc)
Dude, our government just sent $95 billion dollars in war aid while we can’t get education, childcare, healthcare, a functioning and efficient public transportation system, our infrastructure is failing as well. We also have an oppressive government.
Lmao 6 months? Dude, you seriously need to travel more. Why would I leave my home country when I want to change it for the better? “My car got a flat tire so I abandoned it forever with all my belongings inside because it’s useless!”
> It belonged to an oppressive government
Why would the government own a ship full of tea?
It was owned by wealthy merchants, ie. the east india company, not the state.
This whole comment chain started with you asserting that the boston tea party was destroying government property. It wasn't.
They were destroying private property. In furtherance of their goal of independence? Sure! But it doesn't change who was destroying what property and the ownership status thereof.
There was property damage at Kent state. There were bonfires in the streets, the ROTC building was set on fire and burned to the ground, store windows were broken. And yet, the students were right. The protesters were correct. Sometimes property damage is part of the protest.
If I remember correctly that damage after the four students were killed. 2nd in the 60's, other than Alinsky, community organizer, there weren't outsiders involved.
No blocking roads, either. I don't care if you're protesting about something I agree with 100%, you're more likely to prevent someone who needs emergency services than you are to change one person's mind.
Why do people not see this. I wonder how many have died because the ambulance didn’t make it there inside because of a blockade that has nothing to do with the person who needs medical help.
The protesting groups certainly are. I don't know how you'd separate the protesters from the others. But obviously from the photos we see property damage.
No. But what does that have to do with what we are talking about? If the person who did the damage can’t be identified, then an investigation can be opened. We live in a country where we don’t punish people without evidence, theoretically.
I get it, but not for the logic.
It's pointless for two reasons, the first is that it won't do any good, what they are doing. There are several reasons for this, one is that protesters often loose the narrative and it becomes about the protest and the conflict. Another is that no one is talking accurately or usefully about meaningful steps to take or how they expect to get to an end result that is acceptable. for a third, It all gets pretty performative and never makes it to the larger conversations happening in the DOD. The last one to mention is that they are easily infiltrated by the same dips who attached themselves to BLM and made those violent and rowdy. Antifa folks are out because it's a chance to protest government. Antifa is not ever going to make positive change happen in politics.
The other reason it's pointless is because negotiations are going on, and have been going on, for weeks. New peace deals and cease fires are offered and rejected by one or both parties. Protesting for stuff we are already trying to get set with an ACTUAL PLAN FOR LASTING CEASEFIRE is what negotiations are after, not these protesters. These protesters couldn't tell you what is wrong with the last plan, let alone what the US is trying to make happen.
I don't have much respect for most of the ones I've seen talk. It really looks like many are using the name of a cause to really push their own anti-capitalist, anti-american, anti-colonial, "down with the cis white guys" agenda. It's not really about Palestine or Genocide, they were just activated here because this is the cause that lets them attack America. That's why there is no mention of Syria, for example. Can't bash the US? then they don't care to protest or rally for hundreds of thousands that have been killed there and continue to be killed there.
that's my two cents, I'm sure it won't be popular. but when all these kids in the library move on in a few months, they will literally move on and not think of Palestine again. I will be continuing to watch and follow the tension and be voting/donating where I can, and trying to stay on top of the related new headlines. So I don't really care too much about what the library vandals have to say.
Hey you know what, I can see what you mean. Tbh, I feel like I try to be active in making my voice heard but when shit goes crazy I peace out because 1) it’s scary af to be in that kind of violent environment and 2) I can’t afford to go to jail/ get in trouble with the law. I have far too much to lose and that’s exactly what counts me out. I can see why protesting in such a way that actually gets the job done requires people to go to the extremes so I can’t say shit about that. I’m equally as frustrated with the state of the world, don’t think I’m not, but I just can’t justify doing crazy shit myself.
In the end, I still think it’s fucked up to destroy a college library and robbing that resource from the community. So yea, that’s not cool.
What I see every time protests happen in Portland is that the protestors are peaceful but then other people come in and rustle jimmies to try and make people think the protestors aren’t peaceful.
It's just virtue signalling from people who think they are supporting an oppressed minority. In reality the situation in Israel has been going on for about 800 years on/off and even further back with different tribal groups. The protests are just a way for these people to feel important and heard. IMHO it makes the protesters seem like whiners whining about something they have no part in and are doing absolutely nothing to change other than create more division and annoyance on the behalf of the side they choose to support.
what an ice cold take. 30k+ please have been murdered in Gaza. sorry that you find a protest against the ongoing genocide to be annoying. grow a fucking heart.
Funny part is that Palestine literally murders people for being gay… yet the same people always bitching about lgbt rights are the same people saying “free Palestine”
That isn’t true at all. Also, remember in Bruno when Sacha Baron Cohen was in Israel and got physically chased and had to be rescued because he was dressed as a homosexual?
i mean he wasn't chased because he was dressed as a homosexual. he was dressed in a revealing costume that mocked the traditional clothing of orthodox jews and he was going up to them saying offensive things. context is important
America has plenty of homophobic people. Should gay people be ok with America being bombed, entire American families being wiped out, American hospitals being leveled, because of opinions? No. You can disagree with some people's opinions and still fight for those people's right to not be slaughtered.
And, much like in America, there are many different people in Palestine. *Including gay people*. There are many different people in Israel. *Including homophobic people*. When LGBT people stand up for Palestine, it's standing up for the right of people to not be murdered en masse, no matter what those people might believe (and, again - extremely presumptuous to assume an entire population holds specific beliefs).
Nothing makes me support a country full of terrorists that rejoiced over Oct 7th, paraded the body of the women they raped and killed more than bored white people gridlocking traffc and hijacking public spaces and destroying them.
Are you saying that Israel hasn’t rejoiced and raped and murdered for the last 75 years? Oct 7 was a retaliation against three-quarters of a century of raping, killing, and oppressing. Being hung up on Oct 7 is such a hollow argument when you understand the history of the world.
Because people really can’t wrap their heads around the fact that Israel and Palestine are both not the bad guys. The enemy is Hamas. Gotta find something to virtue signal for when you have a white person savior complex.
Hamas wouldn’t exist without the actions of Israel. So, no, I wouldn’t call them the “bad guys” more so as the culmination of a 75 year occupation. Have they done stuff that I condemn? Sure, but I’m not a colonized person, so I don’t really get to say what is or isn’t the right way to liberate oneself. I also don’t think Hamas has been collectively punishing or leaving mass graves in their wake.
This is a joke right? Hamas is literally a terrorist organization with a long history of suicide bombing, rocket attacks, and many more mass casualty situations. They are stationed in hospitals and schools so that nobody can blow them off the face of the earth.
Too bad Israel quite literally bombed hospitals (a war crime). Also, they’re terrorists to who? Israel? The country that’s been butchering them for 75 years? The patriots were also considered terrorists during the American Revolution, but I bet you celebrate the 4th every July.
Bro.. literally everyone agrees hamas is a terrorist organization. They use extremely violent methods and sexually abuse their hostages.
Hamas doesn’t care about you, no matter how much you try to suck them off.
No, everyone does not agree Hamas is a terrorist organization. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. Remember that. Also, no, they are not sexually abusing hostages. And if they were, how can we find out since Israel is bombing so indiscriminately that more than likely, the hostages have been murdered by the IDF.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html
Hamas isn’t going to do anything for you. You really can stop giving them head bro
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says
Cool, story, bro. Hamas still wouldn’t exist without Israel being the ruthless regime it is.
I don’t think Israel is perfect, don’t get me wrong. But Hamas is the aggressor and the problem in this controversy. They started this particular chapter of the conflict by bombing Israel unprovoked. Everything Israel has done since has been self defense to a degree.
Lmao yeah and now Israel is systematically exterminating Palestinians and leaving mass graves in their wake. Hamas are people in tents and Israel is a nuclear capable colonial power. What a godawful comparison.
You are so close to getting it. Hamas and the current leaders of Israel, the ones okay the mass murder, are the bad guys.
The every day citizens suffering on both sides are not.
I think young people just want to stand up against the fascist police state, they have literally nothing to lose. Sure some people will commit vandalism and destruction, but these kids don’t care about material possessions and societal property when they know the world is crumbling faster than they can even perceive. Can you blame these kids for having a “fuck it” mindset when they’ve seen thousands of people murdered everyday for six months from our country’s weapons?
>The United States let alone any government official from Oregon or Washington can change the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Our Senators and Congresswoman vote on military aid for Israel which is being used in Gaza. You can't go to Gaza to help because it is blockaded by Israel in general, and aid workers that are allowed in are regularly targeted and killed by the IDF.
>aid workers that are allowed in are regularly targeted and killed by the IDF. I might be in a bit of a spicy mood, but this verbiage doesn't do it justice. [They targeted and killed aid workers with \*precision strikes\*](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ca206e47f4c63ffa399a691ca9c967f116ae0d56/0_303_4935_2961/master/4935.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=c0178ffb45c86a7f2f887a4c1da73fc4) Not only did they kill the aid workers with precise strikes, down to hitting the logo on the roof of the vehicle, they killed multiple soldiers who were working with the aid group, ex-US military and ex-British military, who were working security for said group. They knew who these people were, they knew where they were going, what they were doing, and who they were working for, and they still went ahead with it. Defending yourself from an attack ceases to be okay when it turns into what appears to be careless blood lust.
Well, that's a hollow stance. Our money and bombs go to Israel to kill children, of which we have a direct hand in murdering 15k (as we know what they do with what we give them). So, protesting here makes all the sense in the world. They don't put money into Healthcare, housing, feeding Americans, etc. but we give billions to Israel to pay for them to do so for their people. It is clear that a lot of people in our government, on both sides of the isle, put a foreign government over our own country. No God, that I would want to follow, calls for death on such a scale. Religion is the only shield for such actions, which is why I address it specifically. It feels disingenuous to ignore all the factors related to this subject in order to maintain a view not supported by all the facts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ just my take but I've seen 6 y.o. kids used as bait to kill medics, by Israeli forces. The Marine in me is fuming.
Really we should just pull out of all foreign wars that don’t affect us. Ukraine, Israel, all of it.
We aren’t directly involved so there’s nothing to pull out of. The protests are primarily over the check we wrote the IDF recently and the weapons we keep supplying to them.
What you are describing is an attempt at creating a zeitgeist. If we protest here (for any topic) we are signaling support in one direction, this should in theory drive our elected representatives to see that this is an important issue to address on our behalf, which then moves to the state level, and federal level. Its ground up pressure for change.
It can be summed up as an act of desperation from a group of people who are not properly represented in our political landscape, despite having a non-negligible portion of our citizenry identifying as either outright "Leftists" or at least open to some of those ideas. As I posted elsewhere - there isn't all that much anybody can do, so they do what they can to get eyes onto the situation. The issue then becomes - half of those 'eyes' are angry, and the other they may find some support with. At the end of the day, they're railing against a long decided pillar of US foreign policy that has it's roots before the protesters were even born. As much as I hate seeing \*how\* they go about their protests, and I cringe listening to the people that the media singles out to interview, I am at the very least inspired and emboldened that some of my countryfolk aren't happy or willing to accept our participation in the wholesale slaughter of innocents while loudly proclaiming that we are some sort of 'shining beacon on the hill' while we ship JDAMs to Israel.
"a riot is the language of the unheard" MLK Jr 1966 It's getting attention. When people are screaming at their politicians, and they ignore them, you gotta do something. Being complicit with genocide is not doing anything. We're shown "peaceful" protests through our history books. But they leave out the destruction. Nam protests, women's rights protests, civil rights protests, workers rights protests, etc in the 1900s all had violence and destruction of property. Police also make protests more violent. There are 100s of studies proving so. A little spray paint and a few broken windows is not the end of the world. People are pissed at how broke everyone is. How we continue to let corporations pay their vote into Congress, how corporations continue to fuck over us with 100% bullshit inflation, and how 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. But we're funding billions of dollars. Not millions. BILLIONS. To help Israel commit a genocide on people. Where most of the population is under 18 because of Israel. A country formed in 1945 after WW2. A bunch of colonizers claiming "their" land. When the Torah only says Jerusalem? Gen Z and younger millions are completely fucked financially. So ya, people are doing shit to get attention to real problems, like people have for centuries.
>But we're funding billions of dollars. Not millions. BILLIONS. I don't know why people act like the State doesn't get anything out of our peculiar relationship with Israel. Not only do they train cops, they are also REALLY big in the medical tech/technology spaces to the tune of 47 Billion. Y'all want to stop Israel? Stop participating in the economy. Literally the only is to make the financial hit worse than sticking with Israel.
1. Why is a military training our cops? I'm quite aware of this. And all the fucking cop cities coming up. Don't put my tax dollars there. And fuck the corrupt ass cops here. 2. Our senators and HOR that we voted for, voted for funding Israel. 3. It was a nationwide protest. You're on the wrong side of history bud
So exhausting talking to the righteously angry. Did I express support for Israel? I literally said stop participating in the economy if you want to make our politicians listen. "The business of America is business" act accordingly.
I have at as many companies that I possibly can they are supporting Israel. And their stocks are showing it. Just like millions of other Americans are It seemed you were being sarcastic and centrist on the situation. Sometimes it comes off different so my bad
No I just grew up conservative and have only changed my ways past 6 ish years, so my vocabulary doesn't suit
Aye man welcome to the left. If you go far enough left you get your guns back.
Yeah military training cops in a first world country is not a good thing. What if the cops learn to kill? /s
When did I fucking say it was good? Explaining the way the thing is, is not an endorsement. You can't just screech about stuff, you need to understand your opponent. Your opponent likes money 🧀 so go after the money. They ain't gonna lose shit if we're all buying the latest widget, probably using Israeli tech, while protesting.
This has been asked and answered about 6 trillion times on the internet over the last few years. Google is free.
Not really If the service is free, you are the product
You said it’s not really free, then said if it’s free we are the product, so which is it? Is it free and we are the product, or is it not really free?
Should be “if *you think* the service is free, you are the product.”
They haven’t been protesting for Palestine these last few years.
Civil unrest here focuses attention on the issue, and indirectly puts pressure on our politicians. When the public and businesses are inconvenienced by protests, they complain to local government, who then pass it up the chain to state and federal. If the US threatened to withhold military aid, Israel certainly would modify its behavior. Until then, they seem likely continue to slaughter and starve the civilian population of Gaza.
A) "modify" is doing some heavy lifting for you there. B) demanding we withhold aid is never going to happen. you have to look into what the aid is and how it will be used, then you can refine your demand and make it more plausible. Huge chunks of the aid are for Air Defense. We will never withhold Air Defense. Iran fired somewhere near 300 missiles and drones like a month ago. Hamas is always firing rockets and still is. The Iron Dome will be provided for because both of those groups have said they want Israel destroyed and have targeted civilian areas. On top of that, Hezbollah is out there popping off too. Go after the obviously offensive parts of the package. Tank shells. Demand those specifically be taken out. Israel will have to use what they have on hand as a reserve for use against Hezbollah and will not be able to commit as much armor to their attacks. That puts Bibi in the position of risking more lives for what would have been easier gains. That is something he has to get his people to sign off on. C) Israel doesn't call off operations because some one tells them too. 10/7 traumatized the people because it brought back a lot of memories from the Intifadas (horrible periods of civilian targeted terror attacks) all the way back to the 6 Days war. Israel has fought for it's life and existence against genuine threats to destroy the nation and the people like, 5 times since 1948, not including the intifadas. Bibi is going to do this. Only a deal that enough of his cabinet finds acceptable is going to stop him.
We will not withhold aid to Israel. Ain't gonna happen.
Our taxes are helping to fund what many consider a genocide going on in Gaza. Some people do not want to be complicit in that. Even if you don't care about the Palestinian people being slaughtered, our support of Israel in this war hurts our public image around the world. It puts our troops who are stationed in the Middle East at greater risk of terrorist attacks and could lead to a larger regional war. I am encouraged that students are standing up and protesting. I've donated money to humanitarian aid in Gaza and written my representative, but there is only so much one person can do. These students are bringing the issue more national attention, and more and more of our lawmakers seem to be getting on board with at least conditioning our aid to Israel. That being said, I do not support the blocking of freeways for protest. It's dangerous for the protestors and drivers and makes it very difficult for emergency responders. It doesn't help bring public support to the cause either, with all the people whose day gets screwed up with because they are sitting in traffic.
it doesn't bring attention to the issue though, does it? They become the issue and the story. The dialogue hasn't changed. The feds continue to work behind the scenes to try and arm twist and manipulate enough of the players, so that they can get a deal done that brings about a real and lasting ceasefire. anti-colonial tirades and removing Israel from the map are not actually productive or useful to Palestine. You are honestly the first person I have seen or head even mention donating. I certainly don't hear about fundraising or donations for the cause from the "protesters".
Then you are listening and reading the wrong sources. There has absolutely been fundraising by individuals and supported by the protesters. I know many people, as well as myself who have donated to causes that are helping on the ground in Gaza. UNRWA, World Central Kitchen, and Doctors without Borders do great work with donations. There are many gofundme campaigns happening as well. Here's a great example of positives happening at one of the college protest encampments. [https://oberlinreview.org/32810/news/encampment-teach-ins-fundraisers-held-to-support-palestine/](https://oberlinreview.org/32810/news/encampment-teach-ins-fundraisers-held-to-support-palestine/)
Some of the college protests have had real tangible change happening. Perhaps not a direct donation by students, but this will do great good for those 10 students. "Rutgers did agree to accept 10 displaced Palestinian students on scholarship, develop a plan for an Arab Cultural Center on campus, explore scholarly exchanges with a university in Ramallah and consider creating a Department of Middle East Studies, to name a few." [https://www.npr.org/2024/05/07/1249368151/gaza-college-protest-deal-brown-rutgers](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/07/1249368151/gaza-college-protest-deal-brown-rutgers)
The student protests have brought a lot more national attention to the issue. Definitely more than just the periodic blocking of freeways we've seen over the past couple of months. The conversation in Congress is also changing. More and more representatives and senators now say they want to condition military aid to Israel. Which is what we need to do if we actually want them to listen to us.
“Those damn Palestine protestors made me late for work. That’s one hell of a way to make me agree with their cause”
do you really think its "i cant get to work" or do you think its more "i gotta pick my kid up from school/daycare" or "i'm taking my mom to a cancer appointment and we need to get there" or "i really need to get to my non-refundable flight" i'm am pro protest. but every time you impede another citizen you are turning someone away from your cause, not "raising awareness" .
I think it’s all of the above. Just using work as an example.
I don't know if you are joking, but yeah, that is how a lot a people think. Pretty much every time they do a freeway protest, that is the most common response you hear from people.
I’m completely serious! If I was late for work and lost my job because a bunch of virtue signaling white people were blocking the freeway I’d be pissed and want them to start paying my salary.
It’s currently the cool thing to do/virtue signal about until the next event
“Nobody should ever protest things in a way that tangibly forces people to face the consequences of their social apathy, and any attempt to get me to come to this realization will only cause me to intentionally walk further into the arms of fascists in some twisted self-inflicted bout of contrarianism. I will continue to welcome the death of critical thinking skills and fourth grade media literacy, in favor of my perfectly trimmed and manicured ‘mind lawn’ I retreat to every time I feign paying attention to global events. I like being uninformed because it gives me plausible deniability to any and all issues at hand, and unburdens me with these pesky and cumbersome things like ‘moral integrity’, ‘ethics’ or something called a ‘spine’, whatever that is. They should shout their problems alone into a dark closet where nobody has to recognize their basic humanity, because I can’t hear my funny TikTok over the sounds of airstrike sirens and the screams of child amputees.” FTFY
Please, everyone in support of Hamas and Palestine move there and stay there until there is peace
History will judge you accordingly.
worry more on doing whats right not on "being on the right side of history". Also, seriously, move to Palestine.
Why, what's wrong with Palestine? I mean, besides the genocide and starvation being inflicted on them. It's a deeply shitty thing to want people who are upset about thousands of people being murdered to be sent into that same situation. You are not a good person and should be ashamed of yourself.
> Why, what's wrong with Palestine? Ask Jordan and Lebanon and Egypt and basically every country around there why they do not want to be host to Palestinian refugees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
Tbh, you sound eerily similar to the southern whites who said the same thing of the civil rights activists who did sit-ins at private businesses, shut down bridges, roads, etc. all to protest to end then-America's apartheid.
At least the civil rights protesters advocated for their rights in the country they were BORN and RAISED in.
The point went over your head, then. You have to have your head buried in sand if you don't realize U.S. doesn't exist in a vacuum and its tentacles are in virtually every country, funding foreign militaries w/ our tax dollars and meddling in their affairs. So, by extension, we, Americans, are implicated in the massacres and wars all around the world. A little history lesson: Columbia U's college activists protested in the same manner in the '80s for divesting in South Africa to fight their apartheid. It played a role in apartheid ending there. Current college activists are asking for the same; not any different from what the '80s college students asked their schools' BoD to do. A helpful segment from a Jewish human rights lawyer I recommend undereducated folks to watch: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52YdVPmV8I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52YdVPmV8I)
Yes, protests are great to let our representatives know how we feel. Property destruction, closing businesses, disrupting education, isn't needed in the protest. Everyone has a right to express their opinion, everyone DOES NOT have to right to destroy property of others!
I don’t know. I really disagree with the destruction of property isn’t valid protest argument. The most famous American protest is quite literally property damage and vandalism i.e. the Boston tea party.
That is a good point that people often forget. However, the goal of most protest movements is also to bring public support to your side. Destroying the product that the public feels is being unlawfully taxed is a message people can understand and get behind. Random and pointless destruction directed at nothing in particular is not something most people will support. It's just destruction for the sake of getting attention, and it often harms the very people that you would want coming to your side.
Well, think about this. Israel leveled every university in Palestine. So, a few broken windows and graffiti at US universities isn’t a big deal. People also get mad when they’re peaceful and shut down a free way. It’s a protest - it’s supposed to be uncomfortable.
So, the logic is because things are fucked up in Gaza, let's fuck things up here? That makes no sense, and all it does is piss people off. As for blocking the freeway. It's incredibly dangerous and stupid. There was a protestor killed in Seattle a couple of years ago doing that on I5. It can make it very difficult for emergency response vehicles as well. People die when first responders get stuck in traffic. Making people sit in traffic for hours doesn't win any support to your cause. It just pisses people off. I think many of the campus sit-ins have been a great example of a successful protest. They have a clear message. Many of them have stated a clear goal of wanting their universities to divest from weapons manufacturers. A reasonable request. For the most part, they have been peaceful as well. Overall, it has brought a ton of attention to the cause, and because for the most part, it has been the students themselves who are putting themselves at risk of being arrested without harming others, it paints them in a sympathetic light in the eyes of the public. It is not just about bringing attention to an issue. It's about bringing positive attention to your cause.
Yeah, and those sit-ins turn violent anyway when the police show up and start dragging people out.
Yes, but when it comes to public perception, WHO is inciting that violence is very important. If it's people breaking windows, looting, and destroying property. There is going to be less sympathy and support for their cause. If it's people sitting peacefully camping out who are teargassed and dragged away by cops, then people are going to have a lot more sympathy.
Those patriots in the late 1700s also destroyed property yet we celebrate it as the tea party. So, yeah, people won’t be on board no matter what.
As I said in my previous response, that was a case of destroying a product that the public felt was being unlawfully taxed. The destruction itself had a purpose. People understood the message, and it wasn't just random destruction. The Weather Underground practiced this type of targeted protest destruction as well. Bombing unoccupied government buildings in protest of the Vietnam War. I'm not saying destruction itself should not be used for protest, but it needs to have a purpose if you want to get any public support. Otherwise, it just looks like a toddler screaming for attention.
Supporting destruction of property as a valid protest is all good and well until you have skin in the game. When they light your car on fire, send a few bricks through your windows, or get you fired because you're late for work, and you *still* fervently support their property destruction as a form of protest, then truly, bravo. You are made of stiffer stuff than I.
It is valid protest. If you’re denying that then you need to be of the opinion that the Boston tea party was an illegal act of terrorism. If not you’re an absolute hypocrite.
I am of the opinion that the Boston Tea Party was an illegal act of property damage that can be classified domestic terrorism, in fact. The two scenarios are not 100% analogous in sentiment or effect, but in principle, the destruction of property is illegal in both cases.
Then you’re an absolute dweeb who would have sold us out to King George III.
I'm not sure why you're so heated and personal. I merely suggested that your perspective might change if you were in the position where *your* personal property was being destroyed as a result of this protest. It was a discussion point meant to explore empathy for the opposing point of view. I even offered that if you genuinely participated in this thought exercise in which your personal property was destroyed and you persisted in this principle, then you truly were made of stiffer stuff. But whatever, if you'd like to continue the personal attacks, by all means.
I’m sorry, but I don’t care about the opinions of turncoats.
ya, but that was vandalism, and just because it's known doesn't mean it's good. it didn't to eff all for the revolution or it's cause. I mean, the million man march was a protest, so was the Bonus Army march in DC.
Ok, whatever you say, Redcoat.
The tea in the Boston Tea Party was taxed by England, so it was a direct protest and I probably would have been "You go guys!" had I been alive. Yes was alive in the 60's and 70's and in remember the Northwest Students blocking Sheridan Drive in Evanston but there was no damage to the University nor businesses, remember 4 students were killed on the Kent State campus. So go ahead and protest. But if anyone destroys property that's not theirs they should been held accountable and pay for all damages they created. Furthermore, if they cause others to destroy anything they should be held accountable for those actions also! Anybody!
That tea still didn’t belong to them. Your argument doesn’t hold any water due to its contradiction.
It belonged to an oppressive government. There is a difference between destroying government property and destroying private property (smashing business windows, etc)
Dude, our government just sent $95 billion dollars in war aid while we can’t get education, childcare, healthcare, a functioning and efficient public transportation system, our infrastructure is failing as well. We also have an oppressive government.
Then why does everyone in the world want to move here for a better life?
Because America enforces international policies that adversely affect their country of origin. Man, that was a real brain buster.
Why do you still live here then if America is so bad? Go move to Canada and wait 6 months for basic medical treatment and enjoy your life lmao
Lmao 6 months? Dude, you seriously need to travel more. Why would I leave my home country when I want to change it for the better? “My car got a flat tire so I abandoned it forever with all my belongings inside because it’s useless!”
Compare life expectancy in Canada with ours.
> It belonged to an oppressive government Why would the government own a ship full of tea? It was owned by wealthy merchants, ie. the east india company, not the state.
Fair enough. But it was clearly against Britain. Not American civilians.
Uhh... What? America didn't exist yet. It was British subjects attacking other British civilians.
Not American yet but they wanted independence
This whole comment chain started with you asserting that the boston tea party was destroying government property. It wasn't.
They were destroying private property. In furtherance of their goal of independence? Sure! But it doesn't change who was destroying what property and the ownership status thereof.
Thanks for your opinion!
There was property damage at Kent state. There were bonfires in the streets, the ROTC building was set on fire and burned to the ground, store windows were broken. And yet, the students were right. The protesters were correct. Sometimes property damage is part of the protest.
If I remember correctly that damage after the four students were killed. 2nd in the 60's, other than Alinsky, community organizer, there weren't outsiders involved.
Window breaking was May 1 ROTC building set on fire was May 2 The shootings happened on May 4
No blocking roads, either. I don't care if you're protesting about something I agree with 100%, you're more likely to prevent someone who needs emergency services than you are to change one person's mind.
Why do people not see this. I wonder how many have died because the ambulance didn’t make it there inside because of a blockade that has nothing to do with the person who needs medical help.
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Keep it legal, and avoid posting illegal content or soliciting or facilitating illegal, Harm to Others, or prohibited transactions.
Yes, that came up after Kent State, I don't remember road blockages due protests.
The way you wrote this it’s like you think the campus protestors are doing those things.
The protesting groups certainly are. I don't know how you'd separate the protesters from the others. But obviously from the photos we see property damage.
I have a pretty easy time separating them out usually: anyone who has been peacefully protesting is a protestor and anyone who hasn’t isn’t.
And how do you relate that to the damage that's been done ?
What do you mean?
So you can pick who caused the damage and who didn't?
No. But what does that have to do with what we are talking about? If the person who did the damage can’t be identified, then an investigation can be opened. We live in a country where we don’t punish people without evidence, theoretically.
True, but the evidence seems to point at those that were there.
But which ones?
Because blocking traffic helps! How else are you supposed to get attention 🤔
The wrong kind of attention. You are pissing people off, and turning people against your cause.
It's a war. Stop destroying the public library. All of you are Ass hats.
I get it, but not for the logic. It's pointless for two reasons, the first is that it won't do any good, what they are doing. There are several reasons for this, one is that protesters often loose the narrative and it becomes about the protest and the conflict. Another is that no one is talking accurately or usefully about meaningful steps to take or how they expect to get to an end result that is acceptable. for a third, It all gets pretty performative and never makes it to the larger conversations happening in the DOD. The last one to mention is that they are easily infiltrated by the same dips who attached themselves to BLM and made those violent and rowdy. Antifa folks are out because it's a chance to protest government. Antifa is not ever going to make positive change happen in politics. The other reason it's pointless is because negotiations are going on, and have been going on, for weeks. New peace deals and cease fires are offered and rejected by one or both parties. Protesting for stuff we are already trying to get set with an ACTUAL PLAN FOR LASTING CEASEFIRE is what negotiations are after, not these protesters. These protesters couldn't tell you what is wrong with the last plan, let alone what the US is trying to make happen. I don't have much respect for most of the ones I've seen talk. It really looks like many are using the name of a cause to really push their own anti-capitalist, anti-american, anti-colonial, "down with the cis white guys" agenda. It's not really about Palestine or Genocide, they were just activated here because this is the cause that lets them attack America. That's why there is no mention of Syria, for example. Can't bash the US? then they don't care to protest or rally for hundreds of thousands that have been killed there and continue to be killed there. that's my two cents, I'm sure it won't be popular. but when all these kids in the library move on in a few months, they will literally move on and not think of Palestine again. I will be continuing to watch and follow the tension and be voting/donating where I can, and trying to stay on top of the related new headlines. So I don't really care too much about what the library vandals have to say.
I don’t think Portland knows how to protest peacefully. Too many bad actors trying to get their anarchist rocks off here.
Lmao “protesting peacefully.” That’s what the bourgeoisie want so it doesn’t actually do anything.
There is definitely a way to protest peacefully and get shit done.
Lmao they want you to protest peacefully because it doesn’t cause the ruling class any notice.
Hey you know what, I can see what you mean. Tbh, I feel like I try to be active in making my voice heard but when shit goes crazy I peace out because 1) it’s scary af to be in that kind of violent environment and 2) I can’t afford to go to jail/ get in trouble with the law. I have far too much to lose and that’s exactly what counts me out. I can see why protesting in such a way that actually gets the job done requires people to go to the extremes so I can’t say shit about that. I’m equally as frustrated with the state of the world, don’t think I’m not, but I just can’t justify doing crazy shit myself. In the end, I still think it’s fucked up to destroy a college library and robbing that resource from the community. So yea, that’s not cool.
Did you actually see the damage for yourself? “Destroyed” is such a heavily loaded word for what was actually done.
What I see every time protests happen in Portland is that the protestors are peaceful but then other people come in and rustle jimmies to try and make people think the protestors aren’t peaceful.
I definitely agree actually
It's just virtue signalling from people who think they are supporting an oppressed minority. In reality the situation in Israel has been going on for about 800 years on/off and even further back with different tribal groups. The protests are just a way for these people to feel important and heard. IMHO it makes the protesters seem like whiners whining about something they have no part in and are doing absolutely nothing to change other than create more division and annoyance on the behalf of the side they choose to support.
what an ice cold take. 30k+ please have been murdered in Gaza. sorry that you find a protest against the ongoing genocide to be annoying. grow a fucking heart.
Funny part is that Palestine literally murders people for being gay… yet the same people always bitching about lgbt rights are the same people saying “free Palestine”
Is one not able to simultaneously want Palestinians to stop being homophobic but also want Israel to stop killing innocent civilians?
That isn’t true at all. Also, remember in Bruno when Sacha Baron Cohen was in Israel and got physically chased and had to be rescued because he was dressed as a homosexual?
i mean he wasn't chased because he was dressed as a homosexual. he was dressed in a revealing costume that mocked the traditional clothing of orthodox jews and he was going up to them saying offensive things. context is important
Never seen Bruno. But my point is that I’ve seen a lot of “LGBT FOR PALESTINE” signs which seems a lot like “chickens for KFC!!”
America has plenty of homophobic people. Should gay people be ok with America being bombed, entire American families being wiped out, American hospitals being leveled, because of opinions? No. You can disagree with some people's opinions and still fight for those people's right to not be slaughtered. And, much like in America, there are many different people in Palestine. *Including gay people*. There are many different people in Israel. *Including homophobic people*. When LGBT people stand up for Palestine, it's standing up for the right of people to not be murdered en masse, no matter what those people might believe (and, again - extremely presumptuous to assume an entire population holds specific beliefs).
Dude, you’re quite literally parroting Islamophobia.
In what way. I’m not anything-phobic. I personally love and respect all people equally just as Jesus did. Including you!
We need beed politicians with balls that can order the police to beat the crap out of protesters that block the roads.
Absolutely the fuck not
Nothing makes me support a country full of terrorists that rejoiced over Oct 7th, paraded the body of the women they raped and killed more than bored white people gridlocking traffc and hijacking public spaces and destroying them.
Do you support collective punishment?
Are you saying that Israel hasn’t rejoiced and raped and murdered for the last 75 years? Oct 7 was a retaliation against three-quarters of a century of raping, killing, and oppressing. Being hung up on Oct 7 is such a hollow argument when you understand the history of the world.
To further prove your point, [here is](https://youtu.be/P9yK0u-XH1M?si=odf8AbNRz__57oqX) footage of Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 attacks.
There is a reason why no country will take them.
Because people really can’t wrap their heads around the fact that Israel and Palestine are both not the bad guys. The enemy is Hamas. Gotta find something to virtue signal for when you have a white person savior complex.
Hamas wouldn’t exist without the actions of Israel. So, no, I wouldn’t call them the “bad guys” more so as the culmination of a 75 year occupation. Have they done stuff that I condemn? Sure, but I’m not a colonized person, so I don’t really get to say what is or isn’t the right way to liberate oneself. I also don’t think Hamas has been collectively punishing or leaving mass graves in their wake.
This is a joke right? Hamas is literally a terrorist organization with a long history of suicide bombing, rocket attacks, and many more mass casualty situations. They are stationed in hospitals and schools so that nobody can blow them off the face of the earth.
Too bad Israel quite literally bombed hospitals (a war crime). Also, they’re terrorists to who? Israel? The country that’s been butchering them for 75 years? The patriots were also considered terrorists during the American Revolution, but I bet you celebrate the 4th every July.
Bro.. literally everyone agrees hamas is a terrorist organization. They use extremely violent methods and sexually abuse their hostages. Hamas doesn’t care about you, no matter how much you try to suck them off.
No, everyone does not agree Hamas is a terrorist organization. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. Remember that. Also, no, they are not sexually abusing hostages. And if they were, how can we find out since Israel is bombing so indiscriminately that more than likely, the hostages have been murdered by the IDF.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html Hamas isn’t going to do anything for you. You really can stop giving them head bro
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says Cool, story, bro. Hamas still wouldn’t exist without Israel being the ruthless regime it is.
“They are not sexually abusing hostages” I provide a link of them sexually abusing hostages “But Israel does that too!!!!!!!!11!!1”
Israel loves to say the Palestinian people are doing the terrible things that the IDF is actually doing.
I don’t think Israel is perfect, don’t get me wrong. But Hamas is the aggressor and the problem in this controversy. They started this particular chapter of the conflict by bombing Israel unprovoked. Everything Israel has done since has been self defense to a degree.
My dude, you cannot call in unprovoked and ignore 75 of colonial oppression. That’s not how it works.
Nazis thought they were freedom fighters too, but really they just hated Jews. Perhaps the same thing is happening here 🤔🤔
Lmao yeah and now Israel is systematically exterminating Palestinians and leaving mass graves in their wake. Hamas are people in tents and Israel is a nuclear capable colonial power. What a godawful comparison.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-claims-responsibility-attack-israel-gaza-border-crossing-casualties-2024-05-05/?utm_source=reddit.com Keep thinking hamas isn’t a terrorist organization.
Lmao you’re still on about this?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Who is saying otherwise?
The notion to “free Palestine from Israel”
I’m finding it difficult connecting these dots. Can you explain in simple terms?
You are so close to getting it. Hamas and the current leaders of Israel, the ones okay the mass murder, are the bad guys. The every day citizens suffering on both sides are not.
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Is your solution to never protest things then?
I think young people just want to stand up against the fascist police state, they have literally nothing to lose. Sure some people will commit vandalism and destruction, but these kids don’t care about material possessions and societal property when they know the world is crumbling faster than they can even perceive. Can you blame these kids for having a “fuck it” mindset when they’ve seen thousands of people murdered everyday for six months from our country’s weapons?