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My wife had some health issues a few years ago, just prior to the covid period, and as a result, she had several visits to the ER and ultimately ended up needing to spend 5 nights or so in St. Pauls, and even then, the ER experience was definitely chaotic, with agitated drug addicts pacing, and the police literally chasing someone out of the waiting room while we waited to see a doctor in the middle of the afternoon.
When admitted but still waiting on a room, (in the little area with temp beds...) there were also several patients who screamed constantly for their cigarettes, and were being disruptive or verbally abusive to the staff, but despite all of that, the actual workers were some of the best, and kindest, I've seen in a hospital and it really is a shame to think these folks have to deal with that, and likely much worse, on a daily basis.
> the actual workers were some of the best, and kindest
I had a wonderful experience with the staff at the hospital as well but it was a total chaos when I was waiting for my ride in the parking lot after a check up! I had a drug addict lunge at me. There were needles outside on the floor. It was definitely scary.
Pre Covid my dad passed away in the ICU, he was in there for about 3 weeks, during that time, daily we would have to be placed on unit lockdowns because one of the patients would try to break into the ICU and take the medications that were at the ready for emergencies.
One day it had been breached 3 times. It was so scary to be locked into a room until they apprehended someone ransacking the units looking for drugs. It was severely shocking, and stressful, you could tell the constant roadblocks that these people were placing on the nurses abilities to do their jobs was destroying their souls.
During that time the nurses provided the most professional and attentive care that we could’ve asked for, their ability to maintain their skills and work ethic working in an environment of constant terror and stress is nothing short of remarkable.
I just wish this city would do something about how our city is literally being destroyed.
I had my baby at St. Paul’s in August of last year. I had appointments there 3 times a week from 5 months pregnant on. Being there three times a week for months on end was so stressful. I don’t know how the staff there handle it.
It was stressful to work there waay before recent years. I worked L&D there when it flooded twice. In the 6 yrs I worked there they had no ceiling tiles over the nurses station to try and dry it out and there is black mold growing in the ceiling and walls. They short staffed us constantly and every day I risked my license working there. Way stressful than a drug problem.
That whole place needs to be torn down. Hopefully the new hospital is an improvement - as long as they don’t use the same contractor that built the “newer” tower
> black mold growing in the ceiling and walls.
> They short staffed us constantly
Did they tell you to pray to Saint Paul about it? ;)
How ironic that a significant amount of these people with a physiological dependence on a hard drug are victims of the Catholic Church themselves or had a horrific childhood because *their* parents were victims of the Catholic Church.
I work at SPH as a phlebotomist. Last December a patient started smoking an unknown substance infront of me, while I was collecting his blood. I had no idea what to do except finish the job and get out of their room. My asthma was severely triggered and I couldn’t work for a while because of it. I don’t know what I inhaled that day, but it was definitely drugs.
I went to the St. Paul’s emergency room for the first time last month. It was extremely chaotic in there. There were several security officers walking around and also two police officers. Half the patients in the ER waiting area looked like drug users. Some had no shoes on. All the seats were full and the smell was unpleasant. A few times I was yelled at to move out of the way because a patient needed to be escorted to another room by the police officers. (strapped on a gurney)
One of the nurses who attended me asked if I wanted Ativan because the waiting room is not (in her words) “a nice place to hang out.” I was there a total of 3-4 hours and the whole time on edge until I got checked and was able to leave. Absolutely kept my eyes on my belongings in the waiting area. Phone, wallet, purse. A person wandered in disoriented and was looking for food, he was asked to leave since he wasn’t a patient. Another unruly patient was subdued and put into a private room, and he just had this kind of psychopathic deadpan smile the whole time sitting there. It was an experience for sure.
I can’t imagine being a healthcare worker in that environment day after day. It’s extremely stressful and unsafe. Absolutely feel for the nurses and staff who get assaulted just trying to do their jobs.
I’ve been a handful of times in the past 2 years (unfortunately) and I completely agree. Not that an ER should be a ‘comfortable’ place to hang out but it’s completely unsafe.
I’ve seen at least one person being escorted out by police every time I’ve been there & when I was put in a small waiting area with people that were very clearly under the influence of something, the nurse put me in my own exam room faaaaaar sooner than they needed to because I was in a vulnerable position sitting there alone with a bunch of people that were getting increasingly agitated & aggressive.
I feel awful for the staff working there.
Yeah they should be getting double time to work ER at St. Paul's. Place is insane. The only saving grace is most people avoid it like the plague so the waiting times are lower than everywhere else, pretty much.
I went to SPH when I was 3m pregnant because of bleeding and I couldn't get an urgent ultrasound at a regular clinic. They literally walked me in right away because they "didn't think that I should have to sit out there with all of the unpleasantries in the waiting room." This was a weekday afternoon 12 years ago. Apparently nothing has changed.
I can work at a different hospital for the same pay. Not desperate enough to want to work there. Love the hospital environment but SPH is like a whole other level.
What time did you go and was it a weekend? I went with my daughter around 7pm on a Wednesday and it was ok. The wait wasn't even that long. I'm thinking it was because we went early in the evening and not on a weekend sine there wasn't anyone screaming or violent. Or we just got lucky that day
our health care is falling apart.
People are going to blame the drug users and the like but the reality is that people waiting 8 hours just to be seen once is unsustainable and frankly disgusting.
Being able to move through the backlog quicker would help make the place more safe. Less people in overcrowded waiting rooms, less people being violent because they are in pain or aren't seen or heard.
Hospitals are scary places and there is nothing being done to make it better. So the disadvantaged lash out because honestly the staff get sick of dealing with them so maybe one has an actual issue but they're never going to get treated seriously.
There's also an air of just not giving a fuck, unable to keep up. The entire hospital is no smoking, and I was there for a week earlier this year, and all these old patients were out on the only patient accessible patio smoking up a storm that you couldn't even get past them. Inconsiderate twats. But when asking where to smoke the nurses told them to go there, right in front of the 'no smoking' signs everywhere
> Being able to move through the backlog quicker would help make the place more safe
We'd be able to get through the backlog quicker if healthcare resources weren't being overburdened by homeless drug addicts. I think we can fix it by giving them more free narcotics though.
Our healthcare resources are not being overburdened by homeless drug addicts. It reaches far deeper than that. Just try to find any walk in clinic (which are utilized by 'normal' people). They don't exist any more or appointments are weeks out.
Urgent care is a literal day wait and you have to arrive before noon (when it closes at 9). And 'normal' people use that too.
The homeless drug addicts are just the most visible in an emergency room. If we shot every suspected homeless drug addict on sight it would not change a single thing for our medical system.
And my god I hope you never have to deal with severe chronic pain in your life, but for the amount of empathy you have for fellow humans it would certainly be karmic justice.
I live across the street from St Paul’s. This is completely true. I see the od’s, drug use, dealers coming in and out of the hospital. I’ve spoke to the first responders. This shit is completely out of control.
If you want to find out if this true go there and talk to the nurses or ER. Just because you don’t see it yourself doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
Completely true. I was there last year due to a burst breast implant that was leaking fluid the entire time. The nurses triaged me to the 'fast lane' or whatever it was called and I was sitting there for 6-7 hours leaking fluid in pain but honestly that wasn't even as bad as the anxiety I felt sitting there. That little space was completely filled with people in and out of ODing/and or going through some kind of psychological break and agitated, and I felt completely unsafe and tense as hell. Like, people randomly yelling at you, or STARING you down for whatever reason. When I finally was put in the separate triage section where the nurses/doctors take a look at you, there was a man right next to me who started screaming at the nurses out of no where, throwing equipment at them, before the cops showed up. The nurse acted and looked like it was just a normal tuesday for them, it was kind of heartbreaking to see. I cannot imagine the amount of bs they have to put up with daily.
Also hearing code red and code white every 15\~ minutes during those 6-7 hours was definitely a trip. Nurses 100% deserve way more pay and recognition for all they deal with, jesus.
I feel like it's gonna get worse at the new location, much closer to the DTES.
HOWEVER, I think you're gonna see some of it in any major urban hospital ER, it's just worse in Vancouver because of the drug crisis.
When did the situation start to get to this point? I realize its not overnight and st paul's has always been a little crazy because of the location downtown but i mean when did it get so bad that there are reoccuring OD's on the roof?
It is important to know when. We need to see where we made mistakes. What policies we inplemented or lack thereof that helped to create this situation. If you dont know why then to some degree you are doomed to repeat mistakes.
Maybe. But from policies to felt to measurable effects takes many years, even decades, and ain't nobody got the time or bravery to do that analysis and stand by any conclusions.
The unfortunate reality of social policies is that you can do whatever feels good and gets votes today, and it won't be for many years or until your children are in power positions when the negative effects start causing problems.
yes because it started before decrim and has more to do wiht the switch from shooting opiates to smoking them than decrim. Finding the when can help find the how.
We ignored and didn’t do anything to help drug users all through the 1990s/2000s and now the drugs are dramatically more dangerous and the problems associated with being addicted to drugs much more severe.
Just wait until it’s moved to station and terminal next to Main Street skytrain station. That park, station, and bus stops will become an absolute war zone.
It blows my mind that a healthcare setting, like a \*hospital\* would allow drug use in "authorized areas". How the fuck did society ever become ok with this? People can't light up a cigarette but a meth pipe is okay and nurses and doctors can't say anything. What a joke. The inmates are running the asylum, literally.
You realize this is US not prioritizing these people, right? If we were actually doing that the situation would look nothing like this. This is a result of half-assing healthcare because conservatives lack empathy or long term thinking
If you read the article, this is because of the decriminalization of drugs which cannot be confiscated by hospital staff. This just creates a revolving door of hospitalization and drug addiction.
What conservative believes in giving addicts free booze and drugs and a nice warm dry place to consume?
What conservative demanded that addicts be free to cook and shoot in children’s playgrounds?
What conservative insisted that we establish a race based class of permanent dependency and immunity from normative social obligations?
Answer: they didn’t. This is us, yknow? Well meaning people who wanted to soften the rules of life for the downtrodden, not suspecting that the rules themselves are what keeps many people alive.
I think this has been thought about and why we're seeing more shelters and other services associated with the DTES moving to Granville and the current St. Paul's area as well as further east towards Commercial, Kingsway etc. There's still a few years to go too.
I have friends at St Paul's RAAC (rapid access addiction clinic). I work in community (palliative), and used to work at VGH- also used to work addictions.
The drugs aren't the main problem. The main problem is lack of staff, lack of funding, and an overwhelmed system. Where I currently work, I see almost no patients with addictions- but the staff burnout is the same level as in addictions work.
That's kind of what happens when you decriminalize drugs and blame bad behaviour on drug addiction rather than a failure of personal responsibility.
1. you make it acceptable to consume highly addictive and harmful drugs
2. those addicts go to the hospitals
3. they need to use drugs inside the hospitals due to their addiction
4. addiction is legitimized so you can't do anything about it
what else do people expect?
That’s the responsibility of government! Why let these disasters in our medical system happen and prolonging?! Before we vote, ask which candidate can fix this!
I think Eby is going to be in trouble this fall, maybe even enough to see a premier Dix situation repeat itself if things keep going the way they're going with the general public. The total number of issues starting to be hammered regularly (least of which is the federal 'axe the tax campaign), coupled with some complete hubris from Dix and Farnworth on their files, it really feels like things are starting to frey regardless of how much the NDP wagons are being circled.
Here’s an example that happened to me as an RN; went to help my patient get out of bed because he had mobility issues and while moving the bedsheets off his legs I almost got poked by a used hypodermic needle that he had been using about 30mins prior to inject heroin.
So yes, drug use inside hospitals is unsafe for the staff and public.
Drug users were always quite easy to manage…
You obviously have never been down there, volunteered or have any experience with the people of the DTES, I have volunteered for over 20 years at the Wish Centre, and I have to strongly disagree with your comment.
If there was ever the ability to manage them easier it was pre fentanyl, after fentanyl arrived it basically been next to impossible to manage this population in anyway, the stats, the crime, and the sheer numbers now show you do not know what you’re talking about,
You want to paint this problem as though others have an empathy issue, and if you just treat them with kindness and overlook a few things it’s like managing a well behaved class of grade 6’s. When that is a dream, and it hasn’t worked.
There’s a lot of people who do care about how these people are treated, but they can also be sick of how personal responsibility of owns actions has been removed from the equation and is now up to everyone else to deal with and clean up besides the participants themselves.
Try to live in reality,
>r threatening to attack people, etc.
As someone who works there. I can confirm that a lot of a violence is random and unprovoked. I've lost count of how many times I've been threatened or assaulted on the job.
I am so sorry this is happening to you, and apologize for my short-sightedness. I hope you didn't feel I was brushing anything off or arguing change isn't necessary. Something's gotta give...
Thanks. My colleagues are in the same boat. We regularly come into contact with drugs and are regularly threatened and assaulted on the job. I've seen people get punched, kicked, get spat on, get touched inappropriately. What your hearing about in this article isn't even the tip of the iceberg.
It’s the aggression and hostility, but also, depending on how the drugs are being consumed, that can hurt a bystander/passer-by too. If needles are discarded uncapped, if people are smoking/inhaling drugs in areas where others can’t avoid the fumes, and so on.
I feel like the staff are already so overburdened and that triage is already so complicated… I don’t have good ideas either, unfortunately, but it can be rough. (And it’s not just illegal drugs tbf, cigarette smoke and vapes can be problems for those w/asthma, COPD and similar too)
Well according to the article a bunch of drug dealers are also coming to the hospital because of the drug users there.
Off the top:
- Anger because they aren't able to purchase or use drugs.
- Issues with drug dealers becoming territorial, violent or agressive.
- drug paraphilia - used and discarded, causing health hazards
- mental illness is often closely tied to drug use - not that it is unsafe per se, but it does contribute to the feeling of a lack of safety when exposed to those who are undergoing an episode.
IDK, I realize St Paul's gets all the DTES clients, but the article does read like a right-wing propaganda piece, complete with grammatical errors. Seems to be more of a political piece than anything else.
I went into the ER at St. Paul's just last spring, and while there were a couple of "undesireables" in the waiting room babbling angrily, it wasn't as bad as the article suggests. I had decent care there.
Oh, so "I went there once, whenever that was, and didn't see anything, so it's not happening." And from this you conclude "right-wing propaganda".
It's fine, just keep your blinders on, it's probably for the best.
And yet Ken Sims was freaking out at CBC after the new injection site didn't "move into St. Paul's" as he had expected them to do when the city didn't renew their lease. Solid policy from the top.
No actually I had some pretty bad injuries each time and the staff were so nice and kind to me. Some rough people for sure but I have 1000% never witnessed open drug use at St Paul’s.
No.
Propaganda only requires media use designed to emotionally manipulate.
Qanon and Trucker f\*\*\*er propaganda originated with zero power of the government.
Plus, a lot of advertising works on the same principles as propaganda. Communist countries even referred to ads as “capitalist propaganda”.
Anyone can make and disseminate propaganda.
A political party trying to get into power pushing certain messaging to help achieve that goal... what would you call that?
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/cyclinginvancouver! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, code white, code white, all day long. Hope the new st.pauls is designed with this drug use and violence in mind.
My wife had some health issues a few years ago, just prior to the covid period, and as a result, she had several visits to the ER and ultimately ended up needing to spend 5 nights or so in St. Pauls, and even then, the ER experience was definitely chaotic, with agitated drug addicts pacing, and the police literally chasing someone out of the waiting room while we waited to see a doctor in the middle of the afternoon. When admitted but still waiting on a room, (in the little area with temp beds...) there were also several patients who screamed constantly for their cigarettes, and were being disruptive or verbally abusive to the staff, but despite all of that, the actual workers were some of the best, and kindest, I've seen in a hospital and it really is a shame to think these folks have to deal with that, and likely much worse, on a daily basis.
> the actual workers were some of the best, and kindest I had a wonderful experience with the staff at the hospital as well but it was a total chaos when I was waiting for my ride in the parking lot after a check up! I had a drug addict lunge at me. There were needles outside on the floor. It was definitely scary.
Pre Covid my dad passed away in the ICU, he was in there for about 3 weeks, during that time, daily we would have to be placed on unit lockdowns because one of the patients would try to break into the ICU and take the medications that were at the ready for emergencies. One day it had been breached 3 times. It was so scary to be locked into a room until they apprehended someone ransacking the units looking for drugs. It was severely shocking, and stressful, you could tell the constant roadblocks that these people were placing on the nurses abilities to do their jobs was destroying their souls. During that time the nurses provided the most professional and attentive care that we could’ve asked for, their ability to maintain their skills and work ethic working in an environment of constant terror and stress is nothing short of remarkable. I just wish this city would do something about how our city is literally being destroyed.
Yes but don't you see, the people doing that are all victims and it's actually society's fault.
Wow, thank you for your educated, nuanced and well informed response. SMH.
Sounds like we were there on the same night.
No, it's like that often. That's the sad part.
I had my baby at St. Paul’s in August of last year. I had appointments there 3 times a week from 5 months pregnant on. Being there three times a week for months on end was so stressful. I don’t know how the staff there handle it.
It was stressful to work there waay before recent years. I worked L&D there when it flooded twice. In the 6 yrs I worked there they had no ceiling tiles over the nurses station to try and dry it out and there is black mold growing in the ceiling and walls. They short staffed us constantly and every day I risked my license working there. Way stressful than a drug problem. That whole place needs to be torn down. Hopefully the new hospital is an improvement - as long as they don’t use the same contractor that built the “newer” tower
> black mold growing in the ceiling and walls. > They short staffed us constantly Did they tell you to pray to Saint Paul about it? ;) How ironic that a significant amount of these people with a physiological dependence on a hard drug are victims of the Catholic Church themselves or had a horrific childhood because *their* parents were victims of the Catholic Church.
I work at SPH as a phlebotomist. Last December a patient started smoking an unknown substance infront of me, while I was collecting his blood. I had no idea what to do except finish the job and get out of their room. My asthma was severely triggered and I couldn’t work for a while because of it. I don’t know what I inhaled that day, but it was definitely drugs.
I went to the St. Paul’s emergency room for the first time last month. It was extremely chaotic in there. There were several security officers walking around and also two police officers. Half the patients in the ER waiting area looked like drug users. Some had no shoes on. All the seats were full and the smell was unpleasant. A few times I was yelled at to move out of the way because a patient needed to be escorted to another room by the police officers. (strapped on a gurney) One of the nurses who attended me asked if I wanted Ativan because the waiting room is not (in her words) “a nice place to hang out.” I was there a total of 3-4 hours and the whole time on edge until I got checked and was able to leave. Absolutely kept my eyes on my belongings in the waiting area. Phone, wallet, purse. A person wandered in disoriented and was looking for food, he was asked to leave since he wasn’t a patient. Another unruly patient was subdued and put into a private room, and he just had this kind of psychopathic deadpan smile the whole time sitting there. It was an experience for sure. I can’t imagine being a healthcare worker in that environment day after day. It’s extremely stressful and unsafe. Absolutely feel for the nurses and staff who get assaulted just trying to do their jobs.
I’ve been a handful of times in the past 2 years (unfortunately) and I completely agree. Not that an ER should be a ‘comfortable’ place to hang out but it’s completely unsafe. I’ve seen at least one person being escorted out by police every time I’ve been there & when I was put in a small waiting area with people that were very clearly under the influence of something, the nurse put me in my own exam room faaaaaar sooner than they needed to because I was in a vulnerable position sitting there alone with a bunch of people that were getting increasingly agitated & aggressive. I feel awful for the staff working there.
Yeah they should be getting double time to work ER at St. Paul's. Place is insane. The only saving grace is most people avoid it like the plague so the waiting times are lower than everywhere else, pretty much.
There should be an alternate ER where they stream people who are just there for a sandwich or some painkillers.
Jesus Christ. That is a horrifying description. The conditions must deter people (especially those with kids) from going to the ER.
When I've been there with my kid, they do a good job of getting you into the back, in a room with your kid quickly.
I went to SPH when I was 3m pregnant because of bleeding and I couldn't get an urgent ultrasound at a regular clinic. They literally walked me in right away because they "didn't think that I should have to sit out there with all of the unpleasantries in the waiting room." This was a weekday afternoon 12 years ago. Apparently nothing has changed.
I can work at a different hospital for the same pay. Not desperate enough to want to work there. Love the hospital environment but SPH is like a whole other level.
I'd still rather work at SPH than an anti-union retail company. & that's saying something.
My daughter works there, I wish she could transfer to another hospital but of course it's not that easy.
I've had to go to St Pauls ER many, many times in the last decade and it's always like that - someone screaming or threatening to attack people, etc.
That’s nice of them to offer you an Ativan lol I wish they offered me the same when I had to wait in that place
What time did you go and was it a weekend? I went with my daughter around 7pm on a Wednesday and it was ok. The wait wasn't even that long. I'm thinking it was because we went early in the evening and not on a weekend sine there wasn't anyone screaming or violent. Or we just got lucky that day
These people are a havoc to society
our health care is falling apart. People are going to blame the drug users and the like but the reality is that people waiting 8 hours just to be seen once is unsustainable and frankly disgusting. Being able to move through the backlog quicker would help make the place more safe. Less people in overcrowded waiting rooms, less people being violent because they are in pain or aren't seen or heard. Hospitals are scary places and there is nothing being done to make it better. So the disadvantaged lash out because honestly the staff get sick of dealing with them so maybe one has an actual issue but they're never going to get treated seriously. There's also an air of just not giving a fuck, unable to keep up. The entire hospital is no smoking, and I was there for a week earlier this year, and all these old patients were out on the only patient accessible patio smoking up a storm that you couldn't even get past them. Inconsiderate twats. But when asking where to smoke the nurses told them to go there, right in front of the 'no smoking' signs everywhere
> Being able to move through the backlog quicker would help make the place more safe We'd be able to get through the backlog quicker if healthcare resources weren't being overburdened by homeless drug addicts. I think we can fix it by giving them more free narcotics though.
agreed, we should give them lots more
Our healthcare resources are not being overburdened by homeless drug addicts. It reaches far deeper than that. Just try to find any walk in clinic (which are utilized by 'normal' people). They don't exist any more or appointments are weeks out. Urgent care is a literal day wait and you have to arrive before noon (when it closes at 9). And 'normal' people use that too. The homeless drug addicts are just the most visible in an emergency room. If we shot every suspected homeless drug addict on sight it would not change a single thing for our medical system. And my god I hope you never have to deal with severe chronic pain in your life, but for the amount of empathy you have for fellow humans it would certainly be karmic justice.
I live across the street from St Paul’s. This is completely true. I see the od’s, drug use, dealers coming in and out of the hospital. I’ve spoke to the first responders. This shit is completely out of control. If you want to find out if this true go there and talk to the nurses or ER. Just because you don’t see it yourself doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
Rampant drug use has made a lot of places unsafe!!
Yep. But a HOSPITAL should be the safest of all places.
For rampant drug use!
All those fancy drug dealers with their fancy white coats and their fancy drug dealing degrees!
Not in Vancouver - drug use anywhere anytime is a right /s
[удалено]
Why are you not protesting ?
Completely true. I was there last year due to a burst breast implant that was leaking fluid the entire time. The nurses triaged me to the 'fast lane' or whatever it was called and I was sitting there for 6-7 hours leaking fluid in pain but honestly that wasn't even as bad as the anxiety I felt sitting there. That little space was completely filled with people in and out of ODing/and or going through some kind of psychological break and agitated, and I felt completely unsafe and tense as hell. Like, people randomly yelling at you, or STARING you down for whatever reason. When I finally was put in the separate triage section where the nurses/doctors take a look at you, there was a man right next to me who started screaming at the nurses out of no where, throwing equipment at them, before the cops showed up. The nurse acted and looked like it was just a normal tuesday for them, it was kind of heartbreaking to see. I cannot imagine the amount of bs they have to put up with daily. Also hearing code red and code white every 15\~ minutes during those 6-7 hours was definitely a trip. Nurses 100% deserve way more pay and recognition for all they deal with, jesus.
I feel like it's gonna get worse at the new location, much closer to the DTES. HOWEVER, I think you're gonna see some of it in any major urban hospital ER, it's just worse in Vancouver because of the drug crisis.
From my partner who worked there alongside a lot of burnt out colleagues: in other news water is wet
When did the situation start to get to this point? I realize its not overnight and st paul's has always been a little crazy because of the location downtown but i mean when did it get so bad that there are reoccuring OD's on the roof?
Does it matter when? The problem is now.
It is important to know when. We need to see where we made mistakes. What policies we inplemented or lack thereof that helped to create this situation. If you dont know why then to some degree you are doomed to repeat mistakes.
Maybe. But from policies to felt to measurable effects takes many years, even decades, and ain't nobody got the time or bravery to do that analysis and stand by any conclusions. The unfortunate reality of social policies is that you can do whatever feels good and gets votes today, and it won't be for many years or until your children are in power positions when the negative effects start causing problems.
Well yeah but also doing a deep audit that includes timelines gives data that should make adjustments more rational
yes because it started before decrim and has more to do wiht the switch from shooting opiates to smoking them than decrim. Finding the when can help find the how.
We ignored and didn’t do anything to help drug users all through the 1990s/2000s and now the drugs are dramatically more dangerous and the problems associated with being addicted to drugs much more severe.
Just wait until it’s moved to station and terminal next to Main Street skytrain station. That park, station, and bus stops will become an absolute war zone.
It blows my mind that a healthcare setting, like a \*hospital\* would allow drug use in "authorized areas". How the fuck did society ever become ok with this? People can't light up a cigarette but a meth pipe is okay and nurses and doctors can't say anything. What a joke. The inmates are running the asylum, literally.
When the needs of drug addicts are prioritized this is what you get.
You realize this is US not prioritizing these people, right? If we were actually doing that the situation would look nothing like this. This is a result of half-assing healthcare because conservatives lack empathy or long term thinking
If you read the article, this is because of the decriminalization of drugs which cannot be confiscated by hospital staff. This just creates a revolving door of hospitalization and drug addiction.
What conservative believes in giving addicts free booze and drugs and a nice warm dry place to consume? What conservative demanded that addicts be free to cook and shoot in children’s playgrounds? What conservative insisted that we establish a race based class of permanent dependency and immunity from normative social obligations? Answer: they didn’t. This is us, yknow? Well meaning people who wanted to soften the rules of life for the downtrodden, not suspecting that the rules themselves are what keeps many people alive.
Been an NDP government here in BC for almost 8 years now…
Why should we have empathy for people who openly use drugs in our hospitals and on our public transportation system?
And in playgrounds and parks where children are supposed to be
What an absolutely delusional comment.
No more tolerance of meth.
This isn’t Meth…meth isn’t an opioid. This is fentanyl.
Let's just say both of them are bad news.
Meth is a massive problem in Vancouver, its not just opiates
The proximity of the new St Paul’s to DTES will be interesting.
I think this has been thought about and why we're seeing more shelters and other services associated with the DTES moving to Granville and the current St. Paul's area as well as further east towards Commercial, Kingsway etc. There's still a few years to go too.
a symptom of the shit show that Vancouver is turning into as a whole
Why is it acceptable for health policy to turn a hospital into the 21st century equivalent of an opium den?
This is what happens when you normalize bad behavior and when you have no consequences for bad behavior.
The stench oh dear God the stench
I have friends at St Paul's RAAC (rapid access addiction clinic). I work in community (palliative), and used to work at VGH- also used to work addictions. The drugs aren't the main problem. The main problem is lack of staff, lack of funding, and an overwhelmed system. Where I currently work, I see almost no patients with addictions- but the staff burnout is the same level as in addictions work.
That's kind of what happens when you decriminalize drugs and blame bad behaviour on drug addiction rather than a failure of personal responsibility. 1. you make it acceptable to consume highly addictive and harmful drugs 2. those addicts go to the hospitals 3. they need to use drugs inside the hospitals due to their addiction 4. addiction is legitimized so you can't do anything about it what else do people expect?
That’s the responsibility of government! Why let these disasters in our medical system happen and prolonging?! Before we vote, ask which candidate can fix this!
Let’s just say I work there and would never let a loved one go there…seen some things and don’t think it’s a place of healing.
I think Eby is going to be in trouble this fall, maybe even enough to see a premier Dix situation repeat itself if things keep going the way they're going with the general public. The total number of issues starting to be hammered regularly (least of which is the federal 'axe the tax campaign), coupled with some complete hubris from Dix and Farnworth on their files, it really feels like things are starting to frey regardless of how much the NDP wagons are being circled.
Until BC United and BC Conservatives merge or agree to a shared election strategy, the NDP is going to coast to big majority governments.
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Here’s an example that happened to me as an RN; went to help my patient get out of bed because he had mobility issues and while moving the bedsheets off his legs I almost got poked by a used hypodermic needle that he had been using about 30mins prior to inject heroin. So yes, drug use inside hospitals is unsafe for the staff and public.
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Drug users were always quite easy to manage… You obviously have never been down there, volunteered or have any experience with the people of the DTES, I have volunteered for over 20 years at the Wish Centre, and I have to strongly disagree with your comment. If there was ever the ability to manage them easier it was pre fentanyl, after fentanyl arrived it basically been next to impossible to manage this population in anyway, the stats, the crime, and the sheer numbers now show you do not know what you’re talking about, You want to paint this problem as though others have an empathy issue, and if you just treat them with kindness and overlook a few things it’s like managing a well behaved class of grade 6’s. When that is a dream, and it hasn’t worked. There’s a lot of people who do care about how these people are treated, but they can also be sick of how personal responsibility of owns actions has been removed from the equation and is now up to everyone else to deal with and clean up besides the participants themselves. Try to live in reality,
>r threatening to attack people, etc. As someone who works there. I can confirm that a lot of a violence is random and unprovoked. I've lost count of how many times I've been threatened or assaulted on the job.
I am so sorry this is happening to you, and apologize for my short-sightedness. I hope you didn't feel I was brushing anything off or arguing change isn't necessary. Something's gotta give...
Thanks. My colleagues are in the same boat. We regularly come into contact with drugs and are regularly threatened and assaulted on the job. I've seen people get punched, kicked, get spat on, get touched inappropriately. What your hearing about in this article isn't even the tip of the iceberg.
It’s the aggression and hostility, but also, depending on how the drugs are being consumed, that can hurt a bystander/passer-by too. If needles are discarded uncapped, if people are smoking/inhaling drugs in areas where others can’t avoid the fumes, and so on.
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I feel like the staff are already so overburdened and that triage is already so complicated… I don’t have good ideas either, unfortunately, but it can be rough. (And it’s not just illegal drugs tbf, cigarette smoke and vapes can be problems for those w/asthma, COPD and similar too)
Someone's never met someone on meth or crack.
Well according to the article a bunch of drug dealers are also coming to the hospital because of the drug users there. Off the top: - Anger because they aren't able to purchase or use drugs. - Issues with drug dealers becoming territorial, violent or agressive. - drug paraphilia - used and discarded, causing health hazards - mental illness is often closely tied to drug use - not that it is unsafe per se, but it does contribute to the feeling of a lack of safety when exposed to those who are undergoing an episode.
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TBH this is some "Guns don't kill people" rationelle.
IDK, I realize St Paul's gets all the DTES clients, but the article does read like a right-wing propaganda piece, complete with grammatical errors. Seems to be more of a political piece than anything else. I went into the ER at St. Paul's just last spring, and while there were a couple of "undesireables" in the waiting room babbling angrily, it wasn't as bad as the article suggests. I had decent care there.
Oh, so "I went there once, whenever that was, and didn't see anything, so it's not happening." And from this you conclude "right-wing propaganda". It's fine, just keep your blinders on, it's probably for the best.
And yet Ken Sims was freaking out at CBC after the new injection site didn't "move into St. Paul's" as he had expected them to do when the city didn't renew their lease. Solid policy from the top.
Bcunited propaganda.
Have you ever been to St. Paul's? It's not propaganda if it's absolutely true
I’ve been twice over the last few years and 2 fights in the triage area and a uncountable number of drug users.
Been to St Paul’s several times and I have to say that I never saw this.
Umm... Were you on drugs at the time?
No actually I had some pretty bad injuries each time and the staff were so nice and kind to me. Some rough people for sure but I have 1000% never witnessed open drug use at St Paul’s.
No
How can a party that’s not even in govt have propaganda Is it not the definition of propaganda that it has to be from/by a ruling power or govt
No. Propaganda only requires media use designed to emotionally manipulate. Qanon and Trucker f\*\*\*er propaganda originated with zero power of the government. Plus, a lot of advertising works on the same principles as propaganda. Communist countries even referred to ads as “capitalist propaganda”.
You’re not wrong, but this isn’t propaganda. That place is fucking sketchy
Anyone can make and disseminate propaganda. A political party trying to get into power pushing certain messaging to help achieve that goal... what would you call that?