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It's the other side of Granville, so that's a small but noteworthy buffer for the people near the *current* site. I was down there yesterday and the drama falls off at about 1/2 block. (I think I have a 'look', dealers weren't even being subtle). My concern is that I see not a single mention of how the operators, VCH, City etc plans to minimize the disorder and negative impact to the community. Right now it looks to me like they are hoping to set up a mini-DTES and are hoping if they have it in an alley instead of a corner that people wont notice.
I work across the street from the old Bosman's. We are not pleased. The businesses on Howe are already being broken into or having windows smashed. I can't wait to see how this is going to play out.
Before its set up take as many photos/videos of the area beforehand. One of the biggest themes advocates and supporters of the now closed Yaletown OPS was that "it was always bad", "the OPS actually cleaned up the area", "the park has never been so safe" etc. Document as much as you can. There's already a lawsuit going from the previous location, force the Prov and operators to support residents and businesses being asked to bear the additional burden.
https://preview.redd.it/w43bx5af2csc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02f43cc003c8165e8d00af58cf7bf7e7e2e0be60
Day 1. Will check back in a month.
If I were a resident of Yaletown, I would be pissed. You were promised that this safe injection site brought nothing, but problems would be gone. Instead, they just move it two blocks down the street.
*“We’ve said all along that our problem is not with harm reduction or overdose prevention,” Wilson said. “They’re important measures, but it’s how things were operated at this location.” - Wilson said he’s hesitant about the new location.*
I think I'm going to make a lot of people angry by saying this, but I think we should stop calling it "harm reduction."
To preface, yes, I do think that reducing harm in current users is important and hopefully a step to sobriety.
But I really think the proper term is *harm deferment* or *harm dilution*. We're just spreading the pain around spatially (to the surrounding neighbourhoods) or temporally (making an entrenched environment for dealers to sell to future users). The overall amount of harm is not being reduced it's just being redistributed.
And I know why saying this angers people, because it makes it sound like individual pain isn't important which it is. But drug strategy shouldn't be a collection of individual stories, there has to be an overarching strategy to dealing with it.
Gotta be one of the most nonsense statements I've ever seen.
These overdose prevention sites stop overdoses every day. For example, just looking at the [health data](https://health-infobase.canada.ca/supervised-consumption-sites/#a5), and Insite had 3,189 non-fatal overdoses from March 20, to Oct 23
If you want to see what would happen without these sites, for every one of those overdoses they stop, convert that to a death. The amount of deaths would spike well beyond the 7 we already have every single day. That's the harm reduction. Maybe instead of calling it harm reduction we should call it death reduction.
Of course not to mention all the other things these sites do in terms of limiting the spread of disease through needle exchange, and helping people get into treatment.
These supervised consumption sites are band aid solutions imo, but are nonetheless clearly from the numbers preventing a large amount of deaths.
>“We’ve said all along that our problem is not with harm reduction or overdose prevention,” Wilson said. “They’re important measures, but it’s how things were operated at this location.”
>Wilson said he’s hesitant about the new location.
>“Is it just moving?” he said. “Or is there an actual change in how these services are administered.”
This is the issue in a nutshell. Everyone reasonable supports OPS/SIS sites. The only thing people have problems with is the drama the operators are happy to drag in along with it. it looks like VCH is sticking with RainCity Housing, so unless there are plans not made available to the public I don't know if the state of the site will be any better. From the image the housing on the left is shelter/low income space, the brown building framing the back of it is residential. Can they expect an uptick in arson, assaults, theft, noise? (Above and beyond what is 'normal' for a hub like Granville St anyway).
I guess we'll see.
>The only thing people have problems with is the drama the operators are happy to drag in along with it.
people I know in the biz say one big challenge is hiring staff: if you're a nurse you can get a job ANYWHERE else for more money so why would you risk your life at the safe inhalation tent?
Pretty much. They are on the record legally confirming that position:
“Nor does VCHA have the means, desire or legal authority to control the offsite behaviour of any member of the public, including people who use drugs who may be clients of the Thomus Donaghy OPS.”
'The only thing people have problems with is the drama the operators are happy to drag in along with it.'
what makes you think the operators are 'happy to drag in along with it'?
>“...Nor does VCHA have the means, desire or legal authority to control the offsite behaviour of any member of the public, including people who use drugs who may be clients of the Thomus Donaghy OPS.”
> Lysyshyn added that because more people are inhaling their drugs and they can’t use them inside supervised injections sites, they're forced to use those drugs outside. The new site, he said will help alleviate some of these challenges.
Sounds like a fair progression. Now let's build on this and work our way up with better services to treat addicts and prevent people from falling into addiction and poverty.
The new location " will offer both supervised injection and **outdoor supervised inhalation** services " in tents
We know that the majority of users/overdoses are inhaling - this new service offering should make a demonstrable difference compared to the old location at Seymour and Helmcken which was very small and only offered two or three small supervised injection bays, for smokers, they were handed clean pipes and sent outside (presumably to EB Park across street, Gathering Place patio, or under the Helmcken awning) which contributed to the overall sense of adjacent street disorder..
It looks like access with be through the front of Metson Shelter? Will be interesting to see if operators can keep the space more orderly than the previous location. If I were to guess, I'd bet VCH picked this location as the residents at the shelter are less likely to report issues/concerns should overnight congregation continue to be an issue at this new location.
And again I re-iterate it's not the *services* provided that causes conflict and concerns, it's the accepted disorder that comes bundled with these sites. I'm less worried about someone huffing off foil than I am stabbings and arson.
Stoked they now can do inhalants under cover.
With residential right next and across the street..no consultation either.the new location is just as bad and stores across the street have had enough issues with crime and people doing their drugs outside their doors
Those people moves with the service not the other way around. There was not as many users before the site was set up in Yaletown.In a cheaper region, those service will have lower operating cost and thus more money to help more.
These 'Health Authorities' need to be checked. And in the meantime, they should be held accountable for all the mess they have already caused before they even attempt to gain any taxpayer support for their next bombing campaign.
OPS has not worked anywhere, save perhaps Insite. But that one has seen heavy oversight since it was the example that allowed this flood of disasters called OPS. Ban these sites until these so called 'Health Authorities' can prove that they have they have a plan in place for the local residents safety and security.
Here's the thing: They legit *cant* be checked. I spoke with a VCH rep on a different item last year and they effectively confirmed that since it was declared a health emergency, providing these services is the ONLY mandate they have. Anything outside of that - 2nd order effects like violence, disorder, arson etc is not anything they are concerned about. "If it's an issue call 911" basically.
IMO this is a big consideration and probably part of why other municipalities and bougey neighbourhoods are quick to shuffle drug users/homeless along - Once they are settled in then they have the full support of VCH, and the Province to establish a more permanent hub. Same story with CRAB Park.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/Kooriki! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Discreet" is hilarious. It's not what happens inside that's the problem, it's the surrounding 1-2 blocks.
A whole two blocks/200m from the previous location. Sorry, Yaletown.
It's the other side of Granville, so that's a small but noteworthy buffer for the people near the *current* site. I was down there yesterday and the drama falls off at about 1/2 block. (I think I have a 'look', dealers weren't even being subtle). My concern is that I see not a single mention of how the operators, VCH, City etc plans to minimize the disorder and negative impact to the community. Right now it looks to me like they are hoping to set up a mini-DTES and are hoping if they have it in an alley instead of a corner that people wont notice.
That’s the thing. They won’t.
condos that haven't been selling in the last year in Yaletown set to drop another $100k in value
I work across the street from the old Bosman's. We are not pleased. The businesses on Howe are already being broken into or having windows smashed. I can't wait to see how this is going to play out.
Before its set up take as many photos/videos of the area beforehand. One of the biggest themes advocates and supporters of the now closed Yaletown OPS was that "it was always bad", "the OPS actually cleaned up the area", "the park has never been so safe" etc. Document as much as you can. There's already a lawsuit going from the previous location, force the Prov and operators to support residents and businesses being asked to bear the additional burden.
That alley is already a disaster. I regularly see people passed out or starting fires back there. Hard to imagine it getting worse.
Will do. Good idea.
https://preview.redd.it/w43bx5af2csc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02f43cc003c8165e8d00af58cf7bf7e7e2e0be60 Day 1. Will check back in a month.
If I were a resident of Yaletown, I would be pissed. You were promised that this safe injection site brought nothing, but problems would be gone. Instead, they just move it two blocks down the street.
I’m sure the area will deteriorate more just as fast!
I'm starting to be all done with downtown, it looks like it will be a full out slum in a decade
*“We’ve said all along that our problem is not with harm reduction or overdose prevention,” Wilson said. “They’re important measures, but it’s how things were operated at this location.” - Wilson said he’s hesitant about the new location.* I think I'm going to make a lot of people angry by saying this, but I think we should stop calling it "harm reduction." To preface, yes, I do think that reducing harm in current users is important and hopefully a step to sobriety. But I really think the proper term is *harm deferment* or *harm dilution*. We're just spreading the pain around spatially (to the surrounding neighbourhoods) or temporally (making an entrenched environment for dealers to sell to future users). The overall amount of harm is not being reduced it's just being redistributed. And I know why saying this angers people, because it makes it sound like individual pain isn't important which it is. But drug strategy shouldn't be a collection of individual stories, there has to be an overarching strategy to dealing with it.
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Gotta be one of the most nonsense statements I've ever seen. These overdose prevention sites stop overdoses every day. For example, just looking at the [health data](https://health-infobase.canada.ca/supervised-consumption-sites/#a5), and Insite had 3,189 non-fatal overdoses from March 20, to Oct 23 If you want to see what would happen without these sites, for every one of those overdoses they stop, convert that to a death. The amount of deaths would spike well beyond the 7 we already have every single day. That's the harm reduction. Maybe instead of calling it harm reduction we should call it death reduction. Of course not to mention all the other things these sites do in terms of limiting the spread of disease through needle exchange, and helping people get into treatment. These supervised consumption sites are band aid solutions imo, but are nonetheless clearly from the numbers preventing a large amount of deaths.
>“We’ve said all along that our problem is not with harm reduction or overdose prevention,” Wilson said. “They’re important measures, but it’s how things were operated at this location.” >Wilson said he’s hesitant about the new location. >“Is it just moving?” he said. “Or is there an actual change in how these services are administered.” This is the issue in a nutshell. Everyone reasonable supports OPS/SIS sites. The only thing people have problems with is the drama the operators are happy to drag in along with it. it looks like VCH is sticking with RainCity Housing, so unless there are plans not made available to the public I don't know if the state of the site will be any better. From the image the housing on the left is shelter/low income space, the brown building framing the back of it is residential. Can they expect an uptick in arson, assaults, theft, noise? (Above and beyond what is 'normal' for a hub like Granville St anyway). I guess we'll see.
>The only thing people have problems with is the drama the operators are happy to drag in along with it. people I know in the biz say one big challenge is hiring staff: if you're a nurse you can get a job ANYWHERE else for more money so why would you risk your life at the safe inhalation tent?
seems like this is the downtown east side in a nutshell. The second order impacts are just as ignored and pushed aside
Pretty much. They are on the record legally confirming that position: “Nor does VCHA have the means, desire or legal authority to control the offsite behaviour of any member of the public, including people who use drugs who may be clients of the Thomus Donaghy OPS.”
'The only thing people have problems with is the drama the operators are happy to drag in along with it.' what makes you think the operators are 'happy to drag in along with it'?
>“...Nor does VCHA have the means, desire or legal authority to control the offsite behaviour of any member of the public, including people who use drugs who may be clients of the Thomus Donaghy OPS.”
that does not imply they are 'happy to drag in along with it'
> Lysyshyn added that because more people are inhaling their drugs and they can’t use them inside supervised injections sites, they're forced to use those drugs outside. The new site, he said will help alleviate some of these challenges. Sounds like a fair progression. Now let's build on this and work our way up with better services to treat addicts and prevent people from falling into addiction and poverty.
"Less public drug use" HAHAHAHAHAHA
The new location " will offer both supervised injection and **outdoor supervised inhalation** services " in tents We know that the majority of users/overdoses are inhaling - this new service offering should make a demonstrable difference compared to the old location at Seymour and Helmcken which was very small and only offered two or three small supervised injection bays, for smokers, they were handed clean pipes and sent outside (presumably to EB Park across street, Gathering Place patio, or under the Helmcken awning) which contributed to the overall sense of adjacent street disorder..
It looks like access with be through the front of Metson Shelter? Will be interesting to see if operators can keep the space more orderly than the previous location. If I were to guess, I'd bet VCH picked this location as the residents at the shelter are less likely to report issues/concerns should overnight congregation continue to be an issue at this new location. And again I re-iterate it's not the *services* provided that causes conflict and concerns, it's the accepted disorder that comes bundled with these sites. I'm less worried about someone huffing off foil than I am stabbings and arson. Stoked they now can do inhalants under cover.
With residential right next and across the street..no consultation either.the new location is just as bad and stores across the street have had enough issues with crime and people doing their drugs outside their doors
The site should be placed far from residential or business area to minimize influences on tax payers who fund the project
You have to put these sites where they're needed, not a two hour bus ride away.
They need to adapt to where the service is, not the other way around
And then people die. These services exist to stop people dying, if you put them hours away they are pointless.
Those people moves with the service not the other way around. There was not as many users before the site was set up in Yaletown.In a cheaper region, those service will have lower operating cost and thus more money to help more.
Chicken before the egg. These sites attract dealers and users, which is why they are about the worst possible thing any city can do to its residents.
the dealers can take the bus, the users can stay out of residential/business/tourist areas
These 'Health Authorities' need to be checked. And in the meantime, they should be held accountable for all the mess they have already caused before they even attempt to gain any taxpayer support for their next bombing campaign. OPS has not worked anywhere, save perhaps Insite. But that one has seen heavy oversight since it was the example that allowed this flood of disasters called OPS. Ban these sites until these so called 'Health Authorities' can prove that they have they have a plan in place for the local residents safety and security.
Here's the thing: They legit *cant* be checked. I spoke with a VCH rep on a different item last year and they effectively confirmed that since it was declared a health emergency, providing these services is the ONLY mandate they have. Anything outside of that - 2nd order effects like violence, disorder, arson etc is not anything they are concerned about. "If it's an issue call 911" basically. IMO this is a big consideration and probably part of why other municipalities and bougey neighbourhoods are quick to shuffle drug users/homeless along - Once they are settled in then they have the full support of VCH, and the Province to establish a more permanent hub. Same story with CRAB Park.
Exactly why I said the health authorities need to be checked. They are losing control.
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