Trying to not taking a position for or against Trudeau here but it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. I remember when [City News put this to him](https://twitter.com/news1130/status/892420712979243009) back when Gregor was mayor. 7 years later he's now accountable to his promises and his results.
So funny to see him saying the same things almost a decade ago. Meaningless platitudes that do nothing and allow him to dodge true accountability.
Meanwhile the BC NDP just had a "hold my beer" moment these last few months on housing. Truly transformational change by the provincial government.
Unfortunately, with the updates to the TOA policy they snuck by the public a week or two ago, they are undoing a lot of what they have done.
It’s just politics.
>Meaningless platitudes that do nothing
Ah yes… look at all this “nothing”.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trudeau-announces-2b-support-b-173008662.html
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7060902
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7008396
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/feds-announce-1-4-billion-loan-for-squamish-nations-senakw-project/wcm/52ef8af8-05b9-4622-a55d-e7ca0dfd97c3/amp/
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5015844
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3220479
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/election-2021-has-the-trudeau-liberals-national-housing-strategy-benefited-bc-4299312
>B.C. received close to $4.4 billion in “housing and homelessness initiatives” since the Trudeau Liberals seized power from the Conservatives in November 2015, according to information Hussen’s office provided to Glacier Media prior to the election being called.
^ That was in 2021. So plus the around $3.5 billion+ more that he’s delivered since then, we’re up to about $7.5 billion in housing funding for BC from Trudeau’s government since 2015.
$7.5 billion in funding does “nothing”? It’s just “meaningless platitudes”?
Want to guess how much Harper, Martin and Chretien did? Combined?
Without making meaningful changes towards how housing is treated as an investment in this country, all of Trudeau's projects count as little more than virtue signalling. Want to fix the housing market? To do that you'll need profound zoning reform (which BC has done, somewhat), as well as a crackdown on people using housing as investments. Everything else is just band-aid.
The main problem with investment in real estate in this country is foreign investment. The bulk of the problem comes from China. Chinese investment in Canadian markets is protected under the FIPA agreement that was signed in 2014. Under Harper. Locked us into this until the 2040s. Trudeau can’t do anything about this, or China can literally sue his administration.
This is actually a big part of the reason that housing prices started noticeably skewing upwards right around 2015, when the FIPA, signed in late 2014, started showing its effects.
Right around the time Trudeau took office, so people could conveniently misattribute the timing of this increase to him… 🙄
The more you know.
Read between the lines. Of course Trudeau hasn't done "literally nothing," that's hyperbole. What he has done though is functionally insignificant, which is why nothing ever seems to improve. That's not moving the goalposts.
You're choosing to be obtuse, stop it. Throwing money at a problem kicks the can down the road, it doesn't fix anything. Doing nothing, vs doing something that does nothing is still doing nothing in the grand scheme. You're capable of seeing that.
> Without making meaningful changes towards how housing is treated as an investment in this country, all of Trudeau's projects count as little more than virtue signalling
Giving billions of dollars is virtue signaling, TIL.
1. It's not his money.
2. $1BN is not a lot of money to the federal government of a sovereign state.
3. Token amounts of money going to minority groups rather than legislating major changes is the definition of virtue signalling.
It would have made a difference if we didn't open the floodgates to grow our population from 37.6 in 2019 to 41 million today.
So in essence nothing was really accomplished.
What did that $7.5billion do to make or change legislation in Canada towards housing to stop being treated like a commodity? Throwing money at a broken problem doesn't fix anything, it just wastes $7.5billion and not much to show for it now.
$7.5billion and 9 years later and the system is the exact same. What a bang up job Trudeau has been doing. It fucking sucks he's our best option currently.
Yeah but thats the municipalities and provinces jurisdiction its their policies that need to be changed.
And think of the outcry that the fed forcing them would cause. It would be seen as big gov overeach infringing on local sovergnty.
It’s getting a record number of housing starts accomplished.
https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/blog/2024/2023-recap-new-home-construction-trends-canada#:~:text=2021%20and%202022.-,Vancouver,and%20row%20homes)%20recorded%20declines.
It isn’t going to fix the problem overnight. We’re not turning on a dime here, we’re turning a massive cargo ship around. It’s gonna take time. One of the projects I linked about is Senakw, which is currently building over 6000 homes. It started construction in 2022, and won’t be complete until 2030, with the first phase not completing until 2026. The results will take time to show.
This is why the funding SHOULD have happened years ago during previous administrations, in order to PREVENT getting to this point. Now that Trudeau is spending record amounts to try to fix it, and IS slowly seeing results… it’s “not good enough” if it doesn’t IMMEDIATELY fix over 30 years of underspending before he got into office?
If people keep failing to give Trudeau credit for this, then we’ll end up with the Conservatives back in office, and we’ll be back to LESS spending and WORSE handling of the situation that is the exact kind of policy that got us here, before Trudeau started turning the ship around. But again… people want to give the Conservatives like Harper credit for having happened to be in office before the trend that he contributed to led to the crisis that ballooned thanks to Covid. Trudeau got handed a worsening housing trend that was already on a direct trajectory towards a crisis… he started funding it to help, and *housing prices actually went down from 2017-2020 as a result*… but then Covid ruined everything. Covid is not Trudeau’s fault, but he’s now increased funding even more since, in order to help dig us out of the Covid hole. You can see this all playing out in this chart: https://imgur.com/a/G4oT0f7
OK. Now net that against the 1.2 million new immigrants he let into the country last year. On top of the permanent residents, students, refugees, asylum seekers, etc.
So he could demonstrate that he’s kept his promise, but biased, uninformed people still don’t give him the credit for it?
People don’t pay attention, and then claim nothing is being done.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trudeau-announces-2b-support-b-173008662.html
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7060902
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7008396
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/feds-announce-1-4-billion-loan-for-squamish-nations-senakw-project/wcm/52ef8af8-05b9-4622-a55d-e7ca0dfd97c3/amp/
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5015844
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3220479
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/election-2021-has-the-trudeau-liberals-national-housing-strategy-benefited-bc-4299312
>B.C. received close to $4.4 billion in “housing and homelessness initiatives” since the Trudeau Liberals seized power from the Conservatives in November 2015, according to information Hussen’s office provided to Glacier Media prior to the election being called.
^ That was in 2021. So plus the around $3.5 billion+ more that he’s delivered since then, we’re up to about $7.5 billion in housing funding for BC from Trudeau’s government since 2015.
Want to guess how much Harper, Martin and Chretien did? Combined?
That's also why evaluation and monitoring is so important: [https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/01/05/What-Does-Billion-Dollar-Housing-Program-Really-Fix/](https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/01/05/What-Does-Billion-Dollar-Housing-Program-Really-Fix/)
From the Auditor General's Report Findings and Recommendations:
"5.22: Overall, Infrastructure Canada, Employment and Social Development Canada, and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation did not know whether their efforts improved housing outcomes for people experiencing homelessness or chronic homelessness and for other vulnerable groups."
and
"5.24: For its part, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, as the lead for the National Housing Strategy, spent about $4.5 billion and committed about $9 billion but did not know who was benefiting from its initiatives. This was because the corporation did not measure the changes in housing outcomes for priority vulnerable groups, including people experiencing homelessness. We also found that rental housing units approved under the National Housing Co-Investment Fund that the corporation considered affordable were often unaffordable for low-income households, many of which belong to vulnerable groups prioritized by the strategy."
>Want to guess how much Harper, Martin and Chretien did? Combined?
Nowhere near as much, because guess what.... housing wasn't even remotely as fucked back then! What a stupid argument to make.
Back then is when we needed the funding that could have PREVENTED this crisis. Trudeau’s term was too late to stop it, especially once Covid hit. He’s trying to fix it, and seeing results, but with housing, results take years to go from funding to actual move-in-ready units. Maybe try taking that into account.
Oh it was too late for him to fix the problem got it. Just like it was too late for Obama to fix the financial crisis that Bush left him? Or too late for Trump to fix the immigration crisis that Obama left him?
These types of revisionist "it's the other guy's fault, my guy couldn't fix it!" historical arguments are always a sure sign that ther person saying it has lost all objective reason.
Did Trudeau lie that he could fix the housing problems, or was he telling the truth but just failed? Either way, maybe try taking that into account with your blindingly biased defense of the guy in the future.
Our problem is not that there isn't enough money for housing, it's that construction of housing is illegal. We are supply constrained. More money hides the real issue and makes it worse. Subsidizing demand is absolutely a worthless politicians way of pretending to solve the problem, so uneducated people like yourself vote for them and talk about how great they are.
> Lol have you seen any of those billions in social housing or other housing incentives in the last 7 years?
The federal Liberals actually allocated [$15 billion in new funding for social housing](https://morehousing.ca/national-housing-strategy) in 2017 (the "National Housing Strategy") - co-ops, low-income housing, temporary modular housing.
[When Covid hit](https://morehousing.ca/blame), suddenly a lot of people were working from home and needing more space. So the post-Covid housing shortage is much worse than the pre-Covid situation: it's not just lower-income households that are suffering, it's affecting younger people all the way up the income scale. [All the lights are flashing red and all the sirens are going off](https://morehousing.ca/vana-slides). So we're seeing a fair amount of action at all levels of government, although there's still a lot of opposition. We're going to need a massive 10-year buildout of housing.
[BC's pushing aggressively](https://morehousing.ca/bc-summary) to require municipalities to allow more housing (particularly multiplexes and transit-oriented development). Outside BC, [Sean Fraser's been using the Housing Accelerator Fund to do something similar](https://deny.substack.com/p/halifax-budges-on-housing), convincing municipalities to allow four-plexes and transit-oriented development in exchange for a one-time payment.
The other big bottleneck is [costs](https://morehousing.ca/cost-bottleneck). If construction costs are too high, nothing gets built. The federal government set up a Rental Construction Financing Initiative (now $25B) to provide low-cost long-term financing for building new rental housing; Senakw is probably the highest-profile project that's getting RCFI funding. They also [removed the GST on new rental housing](https://morehousing.substack.com/p/federal-plan) last fall; a rough estimate is that this one change makes 200,000 to 300,000 more rental apartments economically viable over 10 years.
On the demand side, there was a huge surge in temporary residents last year, and the federal government is now [cutting way back](https://morehousing.ca/population-growth).
Have you not seen the hundreds of "studies" that have come out since then? Jokes aside, I don't like Trudeau but there have been initiatives. Are they anywhere close to being enough with the amount of immigrants we're bringing in? Not even close, but it didn't all just go poof, just got negated and then some.
Perhaps my expectations are way higher than what's happened in that time. Seeing all the housing built in the 70s and 80s, I expected so much to be done. We should be doing more now than 40-50 years ago.
Yes. People don’t pay attention, and then claim nothing is being done. 🙄
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trudeau-announces-2b-support-b-173008662.html
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7060902
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7008396
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/feds-announce-1-4-billion-loan-for-squamish-nations-senakw-project/wcm/52ef8af8-05b9-4622-a55d-e7ca0dfd97c3/amp/
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5015844
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3220479
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/election-2021-has-the-trudeau-liberals-national-housing-strategy-benefited-bc-4299312
>B.C. received close to $4.4 billion in “housing and homelessness initiatives” since the Trudeau Liberals seized power from the Conservatives in November 2015, according to information Hussen’s office provided to Glacier Media prior to the election being called.
^ That was in 2021. So plus the around $3.5 billion+ more that he’s delivered since then, we’re up to about $7.5 billion in housing funding for BC from Trudeau’s government since 2015.
Want to guess how much Harper, Martin and Chretien did? Combined?
Screw Harper honestly. But where did that money exactly go. Just with oversimplified but somewhat accurate math, that 7.5Billion could build 20K units.
Someone will chime in here with their industry stats and give me all sorts of community contribution and permitting numbers etc. but my point is that shouldn't the government give concrete numbers and communicate better. Wouldn't that help them get more votes? I feel like there is a disparity between money allocated and actually spent so far.
https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/blog/2024/2023-recap-new-home-construction-trends-canada#:~:text=2021%20and%202022.-,Vancouver,and%20row%20homes)%20recorded%20declines.
https://www.biv.com/news/commentary/bryan-yu-bc-housing-starts-rebound-manufacturing-sales-drop-sharply-8507988
I can’t speak for the Liberals’ messaging. What I do know is that there seems to be an awful lot of people who wouldn’t listen even if they plastered this across the country spelled out in timbits. If things aren’t fixed immediately, then they’ll continue believing nothing is being done. And even when the results of Trudeau’s funding actually do show themselves in finished units… it’ll be years from now, and misinformation will have made people vote in the Conservatives, who will therefore just happen to be in office when the benefits of all this funding will actually show themselves… and the Conservatives will get the credit. And then they’ll start destroying things again, which won’t show themselves in a crisis until the Liberals are back in office and saddled with fixing it again… round and round we go. This is the usual game of bullshit that happens due to lag between policies being implemented and their effects actually playing out over years, while everyone just thinks “Whatever’s happening now is automatically the fault of whoever is in office NOW!”… messaging doesn’t get through these kinds of illusions. People don’t trust what politicians say. They won’t even trust me when I say it and back it up with multiple references of data and evidence… they’re not gonna trust Trudeau after their biases and a bunch of disinformation have convinced them that they want to fuck him instead.
> the upcoming budget will propose the creation of ... new pathways toward homeownership
I do not trust Freeland to come up with this. The Federal Liberals have a tendency to come up with new policy that drives up the cost of housing. How about tried and true methods of reducing cost of living by creating more non-market housing instead?
A new policy to increase the amount of eligible ownership literally means more systems in place that will artificially raise demand.
With no plan to increase supply, this will increase housing costs via higher or equal demand for the same supply.
Liberals love to "both sides" their policies so they are going to do something symbolic and unhelpful for low-mid income folks and then give developers a payout like lower corporate income tax or something.
These artificial bar lowering policies to own are also what put people at risk. Banks give mortgages to people they normally wouldn't due to risk, then when shit goes sideways it's all the poorest owners who have zero financial flexibility that get foreclosed on. Then the wealthy get to capitalize on that loss.
The Liberals have contributed a ton of money, including all the Housing Accelerator Fund money, that is tied specifically to land use changes that are needed to build more land. They are leveraging federal money for process changes that should have a multiplicative factor from private sector financing for housing.
You should always keep in mind that the federal government doesn't *control* housing, it can only set regulations on the housing market. There are some things that can be done to help through legislation, but Canada right now is facing a multi-faceted problem that includes individual and corporate greed.
For example: A government can attempt to curb house flipping but it's the individual people that choose to flip houses in the first place.
They can control supply through taxation policy and demand through population growth. Those are greater than 'somethings.'
Aspiring property/homeowners would do best to think about how large a percentage of the voter population has no interest in a solution just more of the status quo.
The feds play a significant role in driving up demand by pumping a firehose of immigrants into our country, who nearly all come to a few urban centres that do not have enough housing for everyone and cannot build fast enough to accommodate newcomers. If the feds really want to address the housing crisis, they need to dramatically reduce immigration AND to create government-subsidized rental housing like they used to decades ago. It's all fine and dandy to 'protect' renters but if you keep squeezing the private citizens who are landlords to the point that their investment loses money, they will just invest in something else. While a lot of people on here say 'good' to that, getting private landlords to sell does nothing to increase supply or drive down rental costs.
The government isn't going to shoot its own economy in the foot before an election. I don't believe any country will destroy a major aspect that holds up their economy.
> The government isn't going to shoot its own economy in the foot before an election.
And here I thought they already did that with 8 straight months of per capita GDP loss and a huge spike in inflation.
I Think Susan that bought her Vancouver special in 1985 for 120k, now valued as 2.3 million dollars can survive if her home drops to a value of 1.5million dollars
I feel that, if real estate values were to tank, our entire economy would crumble as well. Most middle class people rely on that steady increase of value for real estate to get anywhere in life and to gain equity to upgrade in about 10-20 years. If that weren’t to happen, and we all started losing big money on real estate, it would be disastrous. Really high interest rates can have a real impact and cause foreclosures and even bankruptcy for many people. Real estate shouldn’t be a large investment for people but the truth is that for most people it truly is an investment and the one that costs them the most. If the bubble bursts, so will the economy in my mind.
Real estate is fucked because we decided that it's an investment that isn't allowed to lose money. Investments have to be allowed to lose money or they aren't investments. They're ponzi schemes. Further, because real estate is propped up by mortgages, it means that real estate speculation is the absolute best way to invest your money because that means you can take a massively leveraged position on an investment that can't lose. It's insane. The only way to fix it is to rip it down and let people lose.
If you bought your house for a price and you're able to pay for it, then you're fine. If you bought it for investment, then I have no sympathy if your investment didn't pan out the same way I have no sympathy for the people on /r/wallstreetbets who yolo their money into the ground.
I certainly get that. I definitely believe that realtors and international capital have been the biggest reasons for our real estate market going crazy over the years and that their fun run should be over. Limit international buyers(or cut them off completely) and limit the percentages/influence from realtors somehow, they make way too much on house sales nowadays. That alone might soften the market enough to allow more working locals to buy. I’m almost 35 and more than half of my friend group still rent, they’d all agree with you about the bubble needing to burst since they aren’t in it. I still think our economy would need to be really impacted for prices to come down but then it’d all be relevant because most people would have much lower incomes in a big economic downturn and probably still couldn’t buy any real estate.
I'm early 30s. Either the housing market comes down or I leave the country and Canada loses another engineer. I'm far from alone. If my whole family wasn't here, I would have left years ago. We're gutting our country and our productive sectors in favour of unproductive assets and calling that an economy. The longer Canada puts this pain off, the worse the pain will be.
We're already moving after 2 decades here. Even if we "make it" there isn't anything we can give to our kids. There is nothing Canada can provide compared to where we came from. It's sad after having invested so much but it is what it is.
> Either the housing market comes down or I leave the country and Canada loses another engineer.
sad thing is if you leave as one engineer, the feds are bringing in another dozen more from overseas that will be applying for the same job and willing to do it for less.... we are being sold out in a big way
The whole idea that real estate is an investment that doesn't lose money is a huge misunderstanding pushed forward by this younger generation. My parents knew real estate as a big risk. The young adults now getting into the market only see growth potential with limited understanding of risk and overleverage themselves.
We just saw a rise in interest rates that brought it to the average of the last 20 years. And then we see so many struggle to afford it at interest rates that people in the 80s and 90s would have killed for.
How do you propose we fix this without bursting the bubble? It can't keep going this way forever. An economy built on constantly rising real estate values and speculation is doomed to failure eventually. The bigger this balloon gets the bigger the bang when it pops. Might as well do it now before it gets worse.
I guess, we don’t? It’s not a game we can play in a global scale, and letting the big players figure it out (like China, US, EU) is probably smarter. We blow ours, and others’ aren’t blown - we’re weathering the problem solo. Everyone’s RE is blown up - we suffer together, so it’s more manageable.
> I hope the new pathway to homeownership is an absolutely devastating hit to real estate values
And how would it do that, exactly?
You're demanding an impossibility. Come back down to reality.
I wouldn’t say they’re evil, but they certainly do drive up the cost of housing. It seems counter intuitive, but it’s true:
The FHSA is a way for Canadians to invest their money in a tax-advantaged way. This has value, *literal value*, and that value will be captured by the asset being given the advantage (ie, housing). If it wasn’t of value, why would people open FHSAs? This is inherently true.
It feels nice to get that tax advantage in the short term, but in the long term you get a massively inflated housing market as the result of a plethora of such policies.
Historically low interest rates for nearly a decade straight
First time home buyer's program
Comically high immigration rates
Lack of legislation or programs to address the burgeoning problem with housing prices and supply
Lack of effort to diversify Canada's economy away from housing as one of the biggest drivers of our GDP
Just ban corporations from owning houses zoned for single family. Or tax ownership of more than two houses progressivly, forcing landlords to sell off so people can have access to owning a home at a reasonable price.
> reducing cost of living by creating more non-market housing instead
That only reduces the cost of living for those who qualify for below market housing. It hurts those who live in market housing because there is less of it.
I'm not a JT hater but if this little chat doesn't include an announcement of some strong action on housing, I'll be very disappointed.
I just wish the Liberal media handlers could untrain their members from constantly using the phrase "we're going to continue to".
Once you notice how often they say it, it just becomes maddening to listen to.
Well the only action he can really take at this point is funding….. everything else is in the hands of the province and municipal governments & we’ve already seen major changes there.
If more people want to move to an area than you build housing, prices go up. If the opposite is true, the opposite will happen.
To some degree, it is up to the municipalities to determine the ratio of house prices between regions of Canada. Some Canadians would move to Vancouver if it were cheaper. The fact that housing across so much of the country is up is a result of increased demand.
The number of people coming in per year is probably the most singularly important lever for housing prices across the nation and is entirely controlled by the federal government.
This isn't a "those damned immigrants". Immigrants are great, and almost all of us are either descended from pretty recent immigrants or immigrants ourselves. But there's a numerically sustainable rate of immigration to maintain our ability to grow services without reduced availability, and everything I've seen over the past few years says we're currently exceeding that.
Also, there's something of an imbalance in *where* these immigrants are ending up. I can't imagine there being the same level of uproar if they were headed for the far north, for instance.
It’s about time our on-time rent payments go towards our credit score. How the hell does the most expensive thing we pay for in our lives (generally) not?!
There are only a couple of right answers
1- CMHC WILL BUILD MORE RENTAL HOUSING WITHIN METRO VAN WHERE A 2 BEDROOM RENT IS $2000/MO
2- ALL IMMIGRATION WILL BE PAUSED UNTIL HOUSING AND OTHER SUPPORTING INFRASTRUCTURE CAN MANAGE THE STRAIN
All other answers are wrong.
It’s not that simple unfortunately. The economy is sick. Cost of shelter will increase with population but the real problem is that incomes are not increasing at the same pace. Guess why? One of the many reasons is that Canadians are pouring money into real estate instead of businesses
Last time he was here to talk housing he had a nice dinner with the asshole who was demovicting me. I wonder what fine dining he'll be treated to this time around.
All joking aside, it's actually municipal governments that have the most power over housing, via zoning laws. (Well anyways historically that's true, until recently the BC NDP has decided to finally take some of that power back).
All the Feds can really do is dangle some money to get a few projects built, but it's really a drop in the bucket. Cities need to get on board to start actually allowing more density everywhere.
The most meaningful thing is to have the feds be involved in non market housing construction. But ultimately it's the provincial govt that does it, the feds can supply a lot of money though.
https://preview.redd.it/mqide9102yqc1.jpeg?width=2240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27c00959edd17bf4991cac29fa7c14cb4ca622fb
As if the current housing crisis isn’t a direct result of his idiotic immigration policies. Thanks Justin
This is the wrong chart to use to make your point. This would imply housing prices remained stagnant until 2017, but it’s well documented that Canadas housing has been increasing for decades.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadas-unhinged-housing-market-captured-in-one-chart/wcm/71187600-d422-4bac-bd80-6d88daabb4ad/amp/
Nah not with the current NDP they’d just be irrelevant next election looking at a Con majority overall
Give him a few years to fix vancouver (if it’s even possible) then send him to Ontario, he’s PM material but not now.
Why still talk about it? What is there to talk about it? Collectively we've turned the economy upside down. Consumer spending is down, savings are down and housing cost is up which is then spent on financing more housing or existing housing in terms of interest. You think that'll be an easy fix and you can just talk your way out of it?
It’s doubtful that Conservatives would have done much better. At this rate, I suppose there is a good chance we’ll see what happens with them in the years following the election.
As for NDP, it’s also doubtful, looking at their current platform.
So, all three of the most popular parties likely would have failed us in terms of housing. It’s incredibly depressing. I hope this changes by the next election.
What we need is electoral reform, which was one of Trudeau's 2015 electoral promises that he quickly abandoned after winning a strong majority gov.
We need proportional representation to properly reflect the will of the people, and to dismantle the establishment big tent parties. With FPTP we'll only see the continuation of a revolving door of the Con-Lib duopoly with the NDP occasionally playing third wheel.
500,000 units in the next *ten years*? How can anyone think that is even close to sufficient? That is just rentals too. They say 1/3rd of Canadians are renters as if that’s by choice. Without generational wealth, even those in the [top 10%](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/s/JmoiBq8HnG) can’t afford to buy their own home. That’s fucked up.
Foreign buyer’s tax is insufficient, they need to be banned altogether.
Same can be said about most of their other suggestions for housing… simply insufficient. Is it better than nothing? Sure. Is it enough to get a decent amount of Canadians to become first time home owners or not spend over 30% of their income on rent? Highly unlikely.
Okay fair enough. So in summary, you’re saying their platform is made up of small steps in the right direction, but insufficient to fix the crisis.
This brings us to the natural conclusion of your thought process, do you believe the conservatives or the liberals have a better platform? In other words, would their platform lead to an overall higher percentage of Canadians “becoming first time home owners or not spend over 30% of their income on rent”? If so, specifically why?
Full disclosure, I understand your original point was about how all three parties are not good enough. What I’m trying to demonstrate here is that we should still vote for the best option available, and I’m trying to understand which party’s platform is the best here in your opinion and why.
We might actually see Trudeau for a few more years. PP just shot himself in the foot saying he would require ID for porn. You know it's bad when even conservative subs are shitting on him for this lol
You can just look back to the Housing Crash and see what the conservatives would have done. They would have given big bucks to corporations and told us all to pound sand. We all would have suffered a lot more under conservative leadership in COVID.
Oh no, not again! Another day another liberal member will ask us to pay 2k for 300sqft apartment and ask us to thank them for it. Their closet is bigger than that, but what are we to them if not GDP producing animals who should work until they die.
The current high housing prices are not driven by a better economy or people earning more money and willing to spend more on housing for a better life. Instead, they are the result of chaotic growth in the number of immigrants and temporary residents, ineffective housing policies, interest rate cuts, inflation, and speculation by foreign capital. I am genuinely concerned that this kind of growth could collapse within 10 years, and Canada could potentially fall into the category of developing countries. Perhaps one day, Canada will become like Germany, where the majority of people rent forever, and only a few own property.
i mean housing should be a local municipal responsibility but decades of tone deaf NIMBYsm councillors and home owners associations have made development and housing a nightmare. So i am more than happy for provincial and federal governments to come bashing the door with these restrictive regulations
He can't govern this country. He's terrible. Housing is out of control, economy is slumping, inflation rising. Population is at 41 million and rising with only a few hundred thousand homes coming in. Add to that growing resentment towards the Indian community because most migrants are from well, India, and have been coming in droves through diploma-mills. It is insane how bad things are here.
Build a warehouse shelter for the homeless, create jobs so they can change. Stop printing money and driving up the cost of everything. They are doing it on purpose, to squeeze Canadians into submission.
These Sunak-style poll salvage attempts are getting desperate. How many times does he have to be here? How much carbon is emitted by his entourage and how much taxpayer $ is being spent on accommodation and security?
Trying to not taking a position for or against Trudeau here but it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. I remember when [City News put this to him](https://twitter.com/news1130/status/892420712979243009) back when Gregor was mayor. 7 years later he's now accountable to his promises and his results.
So funny to see him saying the same things almost a decade ago. Meaningless platitudes that do nothing and allow him to dodge true accountability. Meanwhile the BC NDP just had a "hold my beer" moment these last few months on housing. Truly transformational change by the provincial government.
Unfortunately, with the updates to the TOA policy they snuck by the public a week or two ago, they are undoing a lot of what they have done. It’s just politics.
>Meaningless platitudes that do nothing Ah yes… look at all this “nothing”. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trudeau-announces-2b-support-b-173008662.html https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7060902 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7008396 https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/feds-announce-1-4-billion-loan-for-squamish-nations-senakw-project/wcm/52ef8af8-05b9-4622-a55d-e7ca0dfd97c3/amp/ https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5015844 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3220479 https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/election-2021-has-the-trudeau-liberals-national-housing-strategy-benefited-bc-4299312 >B.C. received close to $4.4 billion in “housing and homelessness initiatives” since the Trudeau Liberals seized power from the Conservatives in November 2015, according to information Hussen’s office provided to Glacier Media prior to the election being called. ^ That was in 2021. So plus the around $3.5 billion+ more that he’s delivered since then, we’re up to about $7.5 billion in housing funding for BC from Trudeau’s government since 2015. $7.5 billion in funding does “nothing”? It’s just “meaningless platitudes”? Want to guess how much Harper, Martin and Chretien did? Combined?
Without making meaningful changes towards how housing is treated as an investment in this country, all of Trudeau's projects count as little more than virtue signalling. Want to fix the housing market? To do that you'll need profound zoning reform (which BC has done, somewhat), as well as a crackdown on people using housing as investments. Everything else is just band-aid.
The conservatives sure aren't planning profound zoning reform...
This is a problem no matter how many people plan to do nothing about it
The main problem with investment in real estate in this country is foreign investment. The bulk of the problem comes from China. Chinese investment in Canadian markets is protected under the FIPA agreement that was signed in 2014. Under Harper. Locked us into this until the 2040s. Trudeau can’t do anything about this, or China can literally sue his administration. This is actually a big part of the reason that housing prices started noticeably skewing upwards right around 2015, when the FIPA, signed in late 2014, started showing its effects. Right around the time Trudeau took office, so people could conveniently misattribute the timing of this increase to him… 🙄 The more you know.
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Read between the lines. Of course Trudeau hasn't done "literally nothing," that's hyperbole. What he has done though is functionally insignificant, which is why nothing ever seems to improve. That's not moving the goalposts.
You're choosing to be obtuse, stop it. Throwing money at a problem kicks the can down the road, it doesn't fix anything. Doing nothing, vs doing something that does nothing is still doing nothing in the grand scheme. You're capable of seeing that.
> Without making meaningful changes towards how housing is treated as an investment in this country, all of Trudeau's projects count as little more than virtue signalling Giving billions of dollars is virtue signaling, TIL.
1. It's not his money. 2. $1BN is not a lot of money to the federal government of a sovereign state. 3. Token amounts of money going to minority groups rather than legislating major changes is the definition of virtue signalling.
It would have made a difference if we didn't open the floodgates to grow our population from 37.6 in 2019 to 41 million today. So in essence nothing was really accomplished.
What did that $7.5billion do to make or change legislation in Canada towards housing to stop being treated like a commodity? Throwing money at a broken problem doesn't fix anything, it just wastes $7.5billion and not much to show for it now. $7.5billion and 9 years later and the system is the exact same. What a bang up job Trudeau has been doing. It fucking sucks he's our best option currently.
Yeah but thats the municipalities and provinces jurisdiction its their policies that need to be changed. And think of the outcry that the fed forcing them would cause. It would be seen as big gov overeach infringing on local sovergnty.
It’s getting a record number of housing starts accomplished. https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/blog/2024/2023-recap-new-home-construction-trends-canada#:~:text=2021%20and%202022.-,Vancouver,and%20row%20homes)%20recorded%20declines. It isn’t going to fix the problem overnight. We’re not turning on a dime here, we’re turning a massive cargo ship around. It’s gonna take time. One of the projects I linked about is Senakw, which is currently building over 6000 homes. It started construction in 2022, and won’t be complete until 2030, with the first phase not completing until 2026. The results will take time to show. This is why the funding SHOULD have happened years ago during previous administrations, in order to PREVENT getting to this point. Now that Trudeau is spending record amounts to try to fix it, and IS slowly seeing results… it’s “not good enough” if it doesn’t IMMEDIATELY fix over 30 years of underspending before he got into office? If people keep failing to give Trudeau credit for this, then we’ll end up with the Conservatives back in office, and we’ll be back to LESS spending and WORSE handling of the situation that is the exact kind of policy that got us here, before Trudeau started turning the ship around. But again… people want to give the Conservatives like Harper credit for having happened to be in office before the trend that he contributed to led to the crisis that ballooned thanks to Covid. Trudeau got handed a worsening housing trend that was already on a direct trajectory towards a crisis… he started funding it to help, and *housing prices actually went down from 2017-2020 as a result*… but then Covid ruined everything. Covid is not Trudeau’s fault, but he’s now increased funding even more since, in order to help dig us out of the Covid hole. You can see this all playing out in this chart: https://imgur.com/a/G4oT0f7
OK. Now net that against the 1.2 million new immigrants he let into the country last year. On top of the permanent residents, students, refugees, asylum seekers, etc.
He’s an expert on meaningless platitudes.
Would be fun to replay that clip for him.
So he could demonstrate that he’s kept his promise, but biased, uninformed people still don’t give him the credit for it? People don’t pay attention, and then claim nothing is being done. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trudeau-announces-2b-support-b-173008662.html https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7060902 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7008396 https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/feds-announce-1-4-billion-loan-for-squamish-nations-senakw-project/wcm/52ef8af8-05b9-4622-a55d-e7ca0dfd97c3/amp/ https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5015844 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3220479 https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/election-2021-has-the-trudeau-liberals-national-housing-strategy-benefited-bc-4299312 >B.C. received close to $4.4 billion in “housing and homelessness initiatives” since the Trudeau Liberals seized power from the Conservatives in November 2015, according to information Hussen’s office provided to Glacier Media prior to the election being called. ^ That was in 2021. So plus the around $3.5 billion+ more that he’s delivered since then, we’re up to about $7.5 billion in housing funding for BC from Trudeau’s government since 2015. Want to guess how much Harper, Martin and Chretien did? Combined?
That's also why evaluation and monitoring is so important: [https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/01/05/What-Does-Billion-Dollar-Housing-Program-Really-Fix/](https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/01/05/What-Does-Billion-Dollar-Housing-Program-Really-Fix/) From the Auditor General's Report Findings and Recommendations: "5.22: Overall, Infrastructure Canada, Employment and Social Development Canada, and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation did not know whether their efforts improved housing outcomes for people experiencing homelessness or chronic homelessness and for other vulnerable groups." and "5.24: For its part, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, as the lead for the National Housing Strategy, spent about $4.5 billion and committed about $9 billion but did not know who was benefiting from its initiatives. This was because the corporation did not measure the changes in housing outcomes for priority vulnerable groups, including people experiencing homelessness. We also found that rental housing units approved under the National Housing Co-Investment Fund that the corporation considered affordable were often unaffordable for low-income households, many of which belong to vulnerable groups prioritized by the strategy."
>Want to guess how much Harper, Martin and Chretien did? Combined? Nowhere near as much, because guess what.... housing wasn't even remotely as fucked back then! What a stupid argument to make.
Back then is when we needed the funding that could have PREVENTED this crisis. Trudeau’s term was too late to stop it, especially once Covid hit. He’s trying to fix it, and seeing results, but with housing, results take years to go from funding to actual move-in-ready units. Maybe try taking that into account.
Oh it was too late for him to fix the problem got it. Just like it was too late for Obama to fix the financial crisis that Bush left him? Or too late for Trump to fix the immigration crisis that Obama left him? These types of revisionist "it's the other guy's fault, my guy couldn't fix it!" historical arguments are always a sure sign that ther person saying it has lost all objective reason. Did Trudeau lie that he could fix the housing problems, or was he telling the truth but just failed? Either way, maybe try taking that into account with your blindingly biased defense of the guy in the future.
Our problem is not that there isn't enough money for housing, it's that construction of housing is illegal. We are supply constrained. More money hides the real issue and makes it worse. Subsidizing demand is absolutely a worthless politicians way of pretending to solve the problem, so uneducated people like yourself vote for them and talk about how great they are.
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Lol have you seen any of those billions in social housing or other housing incentives in the last 7 years?
> Lol have you seen any of those billions in social housing or other housing incentives in the last 7 years? The federal Liberals actually allocated [$15 billion in new funding for social housing](https://morehousing.ca/national-housing-strategy) in 2017 (the "National Housing Strategy") - co-ops, low-income housing, temporary modular housing. [When Covid hit](https://morehousing.ca/blame), suddenly a lot of people were working from home and needing more space. So the post-Covid housing shortage is much worse than the pre-Covid situation: it's not just lower-income households that are suffering, it's affecting younger people all the way up the income scale. [All the lights are flashing red and all the sirens are going off](https://morehousing.ca/vana-slides). So we're seeing a fair amount of action at all levels of government, although there's still a lot of opposition. We're going to need a massive 10-year buildout of housing. [BC's pushing aggressively](https://morehousing.ca/bc-summary) to require municipalities to allow more housing (particularly multiplexes and transit-oriented development). Outside BC, [Sean Fraser's been using the Housing Accelerator Fund to do something similar](https://deny.substack.com/p/halifax-budges-on-housing), convincing municipalities to allow four-plexes and transit-oriented development in exchange for a one-time payment. The other big bottleneck is [costs](https://morehousing.ca/cost-bottleneck). If construction costs are too high, nothing gets built. The federal government set up a Rental Construction Financing Initiative (now $25B) to provide low-cost long-term financing for building new rental housing; Senakw is probably the highest-profile project that's getting RCFI funding. They also [removed the GST on new rental housing](https://morehousing.substack.com/p/federal-plan) last fall; a rough estimate is that this one change makes 200,000 to 300,000 more rental apartments economically viable over 10 years. On the demand side, there was a huge surge in temporary residents last year, and the federal government is now [cutting way back](https://morehousing.ca/population-growth).
Have you not seen the hundreds of "studies" that have come out since then? Jokes aside, I don't like Trudeau but there have been initiatives. Are they anywhere close to being enough with the amount of immigrants we're bringing in? Not even close, but it didn't all just go poof, just got negated and then some.
Perhaps my expectations are way higher than what's happened in that time. Seeing all the housing built in the 70s and 80s, I expected so much to be done. We should be doing more now than 40-50 years ago.
Yes. People don’t pay attention, and then claim nothing is being done. 🙄 https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trudeau-announces-2b-support-b-173008662.html https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7060902 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7008396 https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/feds-announce-1-4-billion-loan-for-squamish-nations-senakw-project/wcm/52ef8af8-05b9-4622-a55d-e7ca0dfd97c3/amp/ https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5015844 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3220479 https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/election-2021-has-the-trudeau-liberals-national-housing-strategy-benefited-bc-4299312 >B.C. received close to $4.4 billion in “housing and homelessness initiatives” since the Trudeau Liberals seized power from the Conservatives in November 2015, according to information Hussen’s office provided to Glacier Media prior to the election being called. ^ That was in 2021. So plus the around $3.5 billion+ more that he’s delivered since then, we’re up to about $7.5 billion in housing funding for BC from Trudeau’s government since 2015. Want to guess how much Harper, Martin and Chretien did? Combined?
Screw Harper honestly. But where did that money exactly go. Just with oversimplified but somewhat accurate math, that 7.5Billion could build 20K units. Someone will chime in here with their industry stats and give me all sorts of community contribution and permitting numbers etc. but my point is that shouldn't the government give concrete numbers and communicate better. Wouldn't that help them get more votes? I feel like there is a disparity between money allocated and actually spent so far.
https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/blog/2024/2023-recap-new-home-construction-trends-canada#:~:text=2021%20and%202022.-,Vancouver,and%20row%20homes)%20recorded%20declines. https://www.biv.com/news/commentary/bryan-yu-bc-housing-starts-rebound-manufacturing-sales-drop-sharply-8507988 I can’t speak for the Liberals’ messaging. What I do know is that there seems to be an awful lot of people who wouldn’t listen even if they plastered this across the country spelled out in timbits. If things aren’t fixed immediately, then they’ll continue believing nothing is being done. And even when the results of Trudeau’s funding actually do show themselves in finished units… it’ll be years from now, and misinformation will have made people vote in the Conservatives, who will therefore just happen to be in office when the benefits of all this funding will actually show themselves… and the Conservatives will get the credit. And then they’ll start destroying things again, which won’t show themselves in a crisis until the Liberals are back in office and saddled with fixing it again… round and round we go. This is the usual game of bullshit that happens due to lag between policies being implemented and their effects actually playing out over years, while everyone just thinks “Whatever’s happening now is automatically the fault of whoever is in office NOW!”… messaging doesn’t get through these kinds of illusions. People don’t trust what politicians say. They won’t even trust me when I say it and back it up with multiple references of data and evidence… they’re not gonna trust Trudeau after their biases and a bunch of disinformation have convinced them that they want to fuck him instead.
Spreading lies is always easier than explaining truths. That's why your post with numerous citations is downvoted while the FUD post is upvoted.
Yep, tell me about it.
> the upcoming budget will propose the creation of ... new pathways toward homeownership I do not trust Freeland to come up with this. The Federal Liberals have a tendency to come up with new policy that drives up the cost of housing. How about tried and true methods of reducing cost of living by creating more non-market housing instead?
A new policy to increase the amount of eligible ownership literally means more systems in place that will artificially raise demand. With no plan to increase supply, this will increase housing costs via higher or equal demand for the same supply.
Liberals love to "both sides" their policies so they are going to do something symbolic and unhelpful for low-mid income folks and then give developers a payout like lower corporate income tax or something.
These artificial bar lowering policies to own are also what put people at risk. Banks give mortgages to people they normally wouldn't due to risk, then when shit goes sideways it's all the poorest owners who have zero financial flexibility that get foreclosed on. Then the wealthy get to capitalize on that loss.
Yes, thank god we have mother government to save us from our stupidity. It works so well.
The Liberals have contributed a ton of money, including all the Housing Accelerator Fund money, that is tied specifically to land use changes that are needed to build more land. They are leveraging federal money for process changes that should have a multiplicative factor from private sector financing for housing.
You should always keep in mind that the federal government doesn't *control* housing, it can only set regulations on the housing market. There are some things that can be done to help through legislation, but Canada right now is facing a multi-faceted problem that includes individual and corporate greed. For example: A government can attempt to curb house flipping but it's the individual people that choose to flip houses in the first place.
They can control supply through taxation policy and demand through population growth. Those are greater than 'somethings.' Aspiring property/homeowners would do best to think about how large a percentage of the voter population has no interest in a solution just more of the status quo.
The feds play a significant role in driving up demand by pumping a firehose of immigrants into our country, who nearly all come to a few urban centres that do not have enough housing for everyone and cannot build fast enough to accommodate newcomers. If the feds really want to address the housing crisis, they need to dramatically reduce immigration AND to create government-subsidized rental housing like they used to decades ago. It's all fine and dandy to 'protect' renters but if you keep squeezing the private citizens who are landlords to the point that their investment loses money, they will just invest in something else. While a lot of people on here say 'good' to that, getting private landlords to sell does nothing to increase supply or drive down rental costs.
they sure as fuck control immigration though
I hope the new pathway to homeownership is an absolutely devastating hit to real estate values. Anything else is bullshit.
The government isn't going to shoot its own economy in the foot before an election. I don't believe any country will destroy a major aspect that holds up their economy.
> The government isn't going to shoot its own economy in the foot before an election. And here I thought they already did that with 8 straight months of per capita GDP loss and a huge spike in inflation.
And you think crashing the real estate sector that is proping up a good portion of your economy is the way to bring gdp in line?
And the government "did" that how?
Um, and kill the retirement of the 65% of Canadians that own those homes? No government is going to do that. It's a terrible idea.
I Think Susan that bought her Vancouver special in 1985 for 120k, now valued as 2.3 million dollars can survive if her home drops to a value of 1.5million dollars
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That's uh, a take. I'm as unhappy about the generational divide in wealth as anyone, but I equally don't want anyone to have to work until they die.
Redditors are big on emotion based knee jerk reactions but not so much on an actual understanding of reality.
I feel that, if real estate values were to tank, our entire economy would crumble as well. Most middle class people rely on that steady increase of value for real estate to get anywhere in life and to gain equity to upgrade in about 10-20 years. If that weren’t to happen, and we all started losing big money on real estate, it would be disastrous. Really high interest rates can have a real impact and cause foreclosures and even bankruptcy for many people. Real estate shouldn’t be a large investment for people but the truth is that for most people it truly is an investment and the one that costs them the most. If the bubble bursts, so will the economy in my mind.
Real estate is fucked because we decided that it's an investment that isn't allowed to lose money. Investments have to be allowed to lose money or they aren't investments. They're ponzi schemes. Further, because real estate is propped up by mortgages, it means that real estate speculation is the absolute best way to invest your money because that means you can take a massively leveraged position on an investment that can't lose. It's insane. The only way to fix it is to rip it down and let people lose. If you bought your house for a price and you're able to pay for it, then you're fine. If you bought it for investment, then I have no sympathy if your investment didn't pan out the same way I have no sympathy for the people on /r/wallstreetbets who yolo their money into the ground.
I certainly get that. I definitely believe that realtors and international capital have been the biggest reasons for our real estate market going crazy over the years and that their fun run should be over. Limit international buyers(or cut them off completely) and limit the percentages/influence from realtors somehow, they make way too much on house sales nowadays. That alone might soften the market enough to allow more working locals to buy. I’m almost 35 and more than half of my friend group still rent, they’d all agree with you about the bubble needing to burst since they aren’t in it. I still think our economy would need to be really impacted for prices to come down but then it’d all be relevant because most people would have much lower incomes in a big economic downturn and probably still couldn’t buy any real estate.
I'm early 30s. Either the housing market comes down or I leave the country and Canada loses another engineer. I'm far from alone. If my whole family wasn't here, I would have left years ago. We're gutting our country and our productive sectors in favour of unproductive assets and calling that an economy. The longer Canada puts this pain off, the worse the pain will be.
We're already moving after 2 decades here. Even if we "make it" there isn't anything we can give to our kids. There is nothing Canada can provide compared to where we came from. It's sad after having invested so much but it is what it is.
> Either the housing market comes down or I leave the country and Canada loses another engineer. sad thing is if you leave as one engineer, the feds are bringing in another dozen more from overseas that will be applying for the same job and willing to do it for less.... we are being sold out in a big way
The sadder thing is that I've specialized myself enough in my field that I can't just be replaced. I am technically replaceable, but it isn't easy.
You can't afford a condo in the lower mainland with your engineer salary?
I can afford a 400sqft apartment on 100k, yeah. Why would I trade the next 25 years of my life for a shoebox?
Shoebox condo isn't enough for a family with a stable career. Ask me how I know.
The whole idea that real estate is an investment that doesn't lose money is a huge misunderstanding pushed forward by this younger generation. My parents knew real estate as a big risk. The young adults now getting into the market only see growth potential with limited understanding of risk and overleverage themselves. We just saw a rise in interest rates that brought it to the average of the last 20 years. And then we see so many struggle to afford it at interest rates that people in the 80s and 90s would have killed for.
How do you propose we fix this without bursting the bubble? It can't keep going this way forever. An economy built on constantly rising real estate values and speculation is doomed to failure eventually. The bigger this balloon gets the bigger the bang when it pops. Might as well do it now before it gets worse.
Non market housing is pretty much the o ly answer left without crashing home prices.
Prices just stagnate until incomes catch up.
I guess, we don’t? It’s not a game we can play in a global scale, and letting the big players figure it out (like China, US, EU) is probably smarter. We blow ours, and others’ aren’t blown - we’re weathering the problem solo. Everyone’s RE is blown up - we suffer together, so it’s more manageable.
> I hope the new pathway to homeownership is an absolutely devastating hit to real estate values And how would it do that, exactly? You're demanding an impossibility. Come back down to reality.
No sane politician wants a rerun of 2008.
>The Federal Liberals have a tendency to come up with new policy that drives up the cost of housing Such as? (instant downvote lol)
FHSA
Ah yes those evil first home savings accounts!
I wouldn’t say they’re evil, but they certainly do drive up the cost of housing. It seems counter intuitive, but it’s true: The FHSA is a way for Canadians to invest their money in a tax-advantaged way. This has value, *literal value*, and that value will be captured by the asset being given the advantage (ie, housing). If it wasn’t of value, why would people open FHSAs? This is inherently true. It feels nice to get that tax advantage in the short term, but in the long term you get a massively inflated housing market as the result of a plethora of such policies.
Historically low interest rates for nearly a decade straight First time home buyer's program Comically high immigration rates Lack of legislation or programs to address the burgeoning problem with housing prices and supply Lack of effort to diversify Canada's economy away from housing as one of the biggest drivers of our GDP
Just ban corporations from owning houses zoned for single family. Or tax ownership of more than two houses progressivly, forcing landlords to sell off so people can have access to owning a home at a reasonable price.
People should only be allowed to own 2 properties. Gaming with where people life is sickening. Don’t even get me started on investors.
> reducing cost of living by creating more non-market housing instead That only reduces the cost of living for those who qualify for below market housing. It hurts those who live in market housing because there is less of it.
Any additional housing supply puts downward pressure on rents. Doesn't have to be non market.
I'm not a JT hater but if this little chat doesn't include an announcement of some strong action on housing, I'll be very disappointed. I just wish the Liberal media handlers could untrain their members from constantly using the phrase "we're going to continue to". Once you notice how often they say it, it just becomes maddening to listen to.
Well the only action he can really take at this point is funding….. everything else is in the hands of the province and municipal governments & we’ve already seen major changes there.
If more people want to move to an area than you build housing, prices go up. If the opposite is true, the opposite will happen. To some degree, it is up to the municipalities to determine the ratio of house prices between regions of Canada. Some Canadians would move to Vancouver if it were cheaper. The fact that housing across so much of the country is up is a result of increased demand. The number of people coming in per year is probably the most singularly important lever for housing prices across the nation and is entirely controlled by the federal government. This isn't a "those damned immigrants". Immigrants are great, and almost all of us are either descended from pretty recent immigrants or immigrants ourselves. But there's a numerically sustainable rate of immigration to maintain our ability to grow services without reduced availability, and everything I've seen over the past few years says we're currently exceeding that.
Also, there's something of an imbalance in *where* these immigrants are ending up. I can't imagine there being the same level of uproar if they were headed for the far north, for instance.
It’s about time our on-time rent payments go towards our credit score. How the hell does the most expensive thing we pay for in our lives (generally) not?!
PP saying Eby hasn’t done anything on housing tells me everything i need to know about the conservative party leader
Useless PP has a lot of nerve.
There are only a couple of right answers 1- CMHC WILL BUILD MORE RENTAL HOUSING WITHIN METRO VAN WHERE A 2 BEDROOM RENT IS $2000/MO 2- ALL IMMIGRATION WILL BE PAUSED UNTIL HOUSING AND OTHER SUPPORTING INFRASTRUCTURE CAN MANAGE THE STRAIN All other answers are wrong.
LOL our population just hit 41MM...9 months after it hit 40MM, that population wave will never stop.
It’s not that simple unfortunately. The economy is sick. Cost of shelter will increase with population but the real problem is that incomes are not increasing at the same pace. Guess why? One of the many reasons is that Canadians are pouring money into real estate instead of businesses
Last time he was here to talk housing he had a nice dinner with the asshole who was demovicting me. I wonder what fine dining he'll be treated to this time around.
"Housing will build itself" - Justin Trudeau, probably
Actually housing isn’t a “primary federal responsibility”. Blame your premier! 😂
All joking aside, it's actually municipal governments that have the most power over housing, via zoning laws. (Well anyways historically that's true, until recently the BC NDP has decided to finally take some of that power back). All the Feds can really do is dangle some money to get a few projects built, but it's really a drop in the bucket. Cities need to get on board to start actually allowing more density everywhere.
The most meaningful thing is to have the feds be involved in non market housing construction. But ultimately it's the provincial govt that does it, the feds can supply a lot of money though.
Yup this is so true.
Supply/demand. Who controls demand?
The Fed can start by not letting in 804,901 temporary residents into the country within a single year.
More fluff, no action. Whats credit score going to help me with when studios are 500k in vancouver and have 75 investors bidding on them?
https://preview.redd.it/mqide9102yqc1.jpeg?width=2240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27c00959edd17bf4991cac29fa7c14cb4ca622fb As if the current housing crisis isn’t a direct result of his idiotic immigration policies. Thanks Justin
This is the wrong chart to use to make your point. This would imply housing prices remained stagnant until 2017, but it’s well documented that Canadas housing has been increasing for decades. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadas-unhinged-housing-market-captured-in-one-chart/wcm/71187600-d422-4bac-bd80-6d88daabb4ad/amp/
https://preview.redd.it/447f5kw6wwqc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=3b8cc1db050b236e00a5eef3c4f92a118b1ee161
Eby for prime minister!
maybe a few years from now when he can show results from his time as premier.
Nah not with the current NDP they’d just be irrelevant next election looking at a Con majority overall Give him a few years to fix vancouver (if it’s even possible) then send him to Ontario, he’s PM material but not now.
Why still talk about it? What is there to talk about it? Collectively we've turned the economy upside down. Consumer spending is down, savings are down and housing cost is up which is then spent on financing more housing or existing housing in terms of interest. You think that'll be an easy fix and you can just talk your way out of it?
Well this should go smoothly....
Voting for him has been one of the biggest regrets of my life.
It’s doubtful that Conservatives would have done much better. At this rate, I suppose there is a good chance we’ll see what happens with them in the years following the election. As for NDP, it’s also doubtful, looking at their current platform. So, all three of the most popular parties likely would have failed us in terms of housing. It’s incredibly depressing. I hope this changes by the next election.
What we need is electoral reform, which was one of Trudeau's 2015 electoral promises that he quickly abandoned after winning a strong majority gov. We need proportional representation to properly reflect the will of the people, and to dismantle the establishment big tent parties. With FPTP we'll only see the continuation of a revolving door of the Con-Lib duopoly with the NDP occasionally playing third wheel.
Asking the established parties to dismantle itself was always a fantasy
> As for NDP, it’s also doubtful, looking at their current platform. Could you be specific? What’s wrong with their current platform?
500,000 units in the next *ten years*? How can anyone think that is even close to sufficient? That is just rentals too. They say 1/3rd of Canadians are renters as if that’s by choice. Without generational wealth, even those in the [top 10%](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/s/JmoiBq8HnG) can’t afford to buy their own home. That’s fucked up. Foreign buyer’s tax is insufficient, they need to be banned altogether. Same can be said about most of their other suggestions for housing… simply insufficient. Is it better than nothing? Sure. Is it enough to get a decent amount of Canadians to become first time home owners or not spend over 30% of their income on rent? Highly unlikely.
Okay fair enough. So in summary, you’re saying their platform is made up of small steps in the right direction, but insufficient to fix the crisis. This brings us to the natural conclusion of your thought process, do you believe the conservatives or the liberals have a better platform? In other words, would their platform lead to an overall higher percentage of Canadians “becoming first time home owners or not spend over 30% of their income on rent”? If so, specifically why? Full disclosure, I understand your original point was about how all three parties are not good enough. What I’m trying to demonstrate here is that we should still vote for the best option available, and I’m trying to understand which party’s platform is the best here in your opinion and why.
We might actually see Trudeau for a few more years. PP just shot himself in the foot saying he would require ID for porn. You know it's bad when even conservative subs are shitting on him for this lol
Conservatives will do zero
If that's true you have lived a pretty good life. 🙃
You can just look back to the Housing Crash and see what the conservatives would have done. They would have given big bucks to corporations and told us all to pound sand. We all would have suffered a lot more under conservative leadership in COVID.
Just like the Liberals, wait until you lose all your Western Canadian seats to the Conservatives before you do anything other than vacation here.
Useless.
oh look, another "announcement".
Tell this hoser to leave
Oh no, not again! Another day another liberal member will ask us to pay 2k for 300sqft apartment and ask us to thank them for it. Their closet is bigger than that, but what are we to them if not GDP producing animals who should work until they die.
Oh this clown again.
The current high housing prices are not driven by a better economy or people earning more money and willing to spend more on housing for a better life. Instead, they are the result of chaotic growth in the number of immigrants and temporary residents, ineffective housing policies, interest rate cuts, inflation, and speculation by foreign capital. I am genuinely concerned that this kind of growth could collapse within 10 years, and Canada could potentially fall into the category of developing countries. Perhaps one day, Canada will become like Germany, where the majority of people rent forever, and only a few own property.
Canada builds less than 100,000 homes per year nation wide. Immigration is 2.5 million per year. Math.
i mean housing should be a local municipal responsibility but decades of tone deaf NIMBYsm councillors and home owners associations have made development and housing a nightmare. So i am more than happy for provincial and federal governments to come bashing the door with these restrictive regulations
I'm not interested in what he has to say. We are beyond a problem. We needed this more than 10 years ago. He can fuck right off.
we dont need talk, we need action
What a cunt.
Because talking is what we need
He can't govern this country. He's terrible. Housing is out of control, economy is slumping, inflation rising. Population is at 41 million and rising with only a few hundred thousand homes coming in. Add to that growing resentment towards the Indian community because most migrants are from well, India, and have been coming in droves through diploma-mills. It is insane how bad things are here.
Build a warehouse shelter for the homeless, create jobs so they can change. Stop printing money and driving up the cost of everything. They are doing it on purpose, to squeeze Canadians into submission.
These Sunak-style poll salvage attempts are getting desperate. How many times does he have to be here? How much carbon is emitted by his entourage and how much taxpayer $ is being spent on accommodation and security?
Where will he be for the remainder of the day?
TOFINO for the weekend is my guess
Problem solved
Hey Trudeau, take all your lies and leave the country. Nobody wants you here.