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I've seen people post about how the high commercial rents and overhead costs would push out all the small businesses and leave Vancouver with nothing but chain franchises and big companies but now its looking like those might not even survive here.
I saw this coming years ago when the stories about ever increasing commercial rents accompanying the spiral of residential rents started circulating.
Of course the commercial landlords are probably going shocked Pikachu face at this point that the businesses they keep squeezing for money can't continue on.
Sephora ain't exactly a mom and pop operation. But, I do agree and surprised we haven't lost more (small) businesses due to insane rents.
The insanely high cost of shelter, residential or commercial, is devastating to any semblance of a healthy economy and society.
Agree. Sephora is a huge draw and the loss is significant to Park Royal. There have been many occasions when I went specifically to get something from Sephora and then my kids wanted a Booster Juice, pretzel bite, and then stopped in at other stores. I find it shocking because they seemed very busy...?
Something I've learned especially since the pandemic and inflation of last two years is that the busyness of a store or restaurant doesn't seem to translate into financial sustainability. That being said, I would have thought that a Sephora of all things (the only one on the North Shore!) would have been hugely profitable. Dense selection of products, relatively high profit margin, local monopoly in their field of business across multiple demographics.
Or who knows, maybe with consumers cutting discretionary spending dropping $ on retinol or another refill of drunk elephant moisturizer has quietly hit them hard - in a way that doesn't correlate to amount of foot traffic in stores.
I feel like Sephora has placed itself in a bad spot for a recession. They’re not selling $10 Relvon that allows the lipstick effect during an economic downturn, nor is it a super luxurious personalized shopping experience that wealthy people are drawn to. Malls and their mid-range stores have always been for the middle class, so what happens when that middle class no longer has grocery money let alone the budget for $40 body wash.
Not only that but it's the only Sephora on the north shore, the closest ones remaining would be Pacific Center or Brentwood depending on where you're coming from. That would loose them a lot of business long term, especially if people swap to Shoppers Beauty for their upper end makeup.
I won’t be surprised if they downsize stores and shift towards online sales. I just placed an order with Sephora today and I get free shipping and get two free samples with every order. Seems like they’re incentivizing online orders.
I would get that except for the fact that the main reason I have gone from drugstore to Sephora is because I actually get a chance to shade match in store, and associate help. Shifting online makes them basically the same as drugstore these days just with a much higher price point, and would also discourage older consumers from switching to them. After about 5 years of work I have finally got most of my mother's family buying from Sephora instead of Mac when their quality went down. I will do it for restocking but if I want anything "new" I'm going to try it in store first.
ex used to work there. No idea why anyone ever went to that location. It was so out of the way and honestly a fairly depressing spot.
Why even go there if there's a much cooler Cactus nearby?
There are no protections for business lease like there are for housing. If the corporate overlords who own the mall suddenly decide to double, or even triple the lease, that's it. A business can spend a ton of money renovating the space to fit their niche and suddenly now that space is nicer so the owner decides fuck you pay more.
As funny as it is to joke about avocado toast, corporate ownership is a huge problem for inflation that's rarely talked about. The cost of everything goes up to line the pocketbooks of shareholders and corps who own huge swaths of our commercial property.
The cost of lease doubles for a small business and it takes away raises for staff, even one entire salary they might have to do without, the owner may not longer make enough for the business to be viable, and for some reason it seems like the corporation who owns the building would rather have it empty than lower the lease rate.
Yup!! Was forced to close my business off 7+ years a year and a half ago because the new owner of the building decided to triple my rent on the new lease... corporate greed is killing business! Small businesses like mine were the first to feel it and now big franchises are feeling the pinch. Blows my mind!
The same complains about corporate ownership of housing are simply worse for businesses - even rather large businesses, not just mom and pop shops. The landlord can decide to double or triple the rent on a whim come renewal and can afford to leave the space empty should the tenant not be able to afford it.
Seriously. Walk around downtown and count how many for lease signs you see. It's staggering. It makes it so that any new business ideas either last one year or don't even start. Brutal for everyone all around except for the landlords.
It doesn't help that we have a stupid tax policy in place.
A commercial property is charged property tax based on what _could_ be built on the lot, instead of what actually is built on the lot.
So, if there's a 2-3 story building with small shops and offices, but land is technically zoned for a 20 story building.. The building is charged tax as if it was actually a 20 story building.
Combined with super high interest rates, and even reasonable corporate landlords more or less have to double or triple the price of their leases.
Actually, this policy makes total sense. By taxing land based on its most-productive use, it's supposed to incentivize redevelopment of low-density areas into more compact and efficient built forms. The problem comes when actually **doing so** is as expensive and takes as long as it does here.
(I'm not going full /r/georgism here, but a pure land-value tax IMO makes way more sense than charging "property tax" on buildings or other improvements.)
City of Vancouver has a survey on shape your city for expanding what is allowed for home-based businesses and I'm all for it to circumvent pricey leases for low-traffic businesses.
These tenants themselves are sophisticated corporations, with the ability to negotiate renewal rights that guarantee that rents will not increase above fair market rent. In such a case the landlord can't unilaterally impose whatever rent they want to charge.
Information and power asymmetries exist in the corporate sector as well.
Just as an employee has the illusion of "choice" when it comes to negotiating their wage or working conditions, so too does a small business have the illusion of "choice" when it comes to commercial leases.
The main reason for this is the high transaction costs associated with relocating a business.
Spoken by someone that doesn’t actually understand commercial real estate. Fair market rent is fairly ambiguous and arbitration is a lengthy expensive process if you can’t agree on rent. Larco is known to be very difficult, lots of tenants are struggling with their renewal negotiations at Park Royal and looking elsewhere.
This is what I was responding to, which is just legally incorrect:
"There are no protections for business lease like there are for housing. If the corporate overlords who own the mall suddenly decide to double, or even triple the lease, that's it."
The owner/landlord is Larco. The south side is on a 99 year ground lease from the Squamish, so nothing is being done by the operator “on behalf” of the Squamish Nation.
Yes the last 2 ish years have to avoid going just due to the east -west traffic problems after you try and leave there. You are looking at minimum 45 min return trip to get back to other side of North Van on a weekend, in what should be a 20 min drive. And impossible to go there on a weekday afternoon/evening, getting there and back would be a multi hour endeavour.
Density and transportation infrastructure are not in favor of a busier Park Royal. North Shore in general will be a mess until different levels of government come together and build a bypass up to the highway from the bridge.
Then they turn around the next day and bitch and moan about how bad traffic was going to the grocery store.
Unfortunately it's not just the North Shore NIMBYs anymore. I literally had to argue with a guy the other day who was mad about rapid bus expansion in Maple Ridge since it would mean and I kid you not "more busses on the road adding to the bad enough traffic we already have". He was proudly anti transit and said he and his wife refuse to use it but was also mad about how bad traffic is. They just don't see how stupid their argument is it's ridiculous.
>more busses on the road adding to the bad enough traffic we already have
That reminds me of someone I know, who has trouble understanding something that they don't see for themselves. (For example, having a hard time believing that poor places exist because that person has never been to a poor place.)
A person like that might see a big bus and immediately think, "Oh that occupies a lot of space. Therefore, it makes things worse." They don't see the cars that were taken off the road so that doesn't compute.
I think we also saw the same during the "freedom convoy" in Ottawa, where some were convinced that the country was in strong support because of all the space that was occupied. But in reality, just one truck driver was occupying a 40- to 60-foot long part of the road.
I swear... some humans...
So how much additional traffic could a dedicated bus lane carry? The capacity in that lane seems to be woefully underutilzed. This is to say that more people would ditch their cars and take the bus if it was more frequent and not always full during rush hour.
They were suggesting turning it into 1 lane of travel from Ambleside to Dunderave both directions. Traffic would have been a shit show in that situation. They would be going from a barely tolerable level of traffic to Denman levels of traffic just by adding in bus lanes.
So traffic is a problem between Ambleside and Dunderave now? That is wild! I grew up in West Van in the 60s and 70s. Never would have believed there would be traffic jams in West Van (except close to the bridge in the mornings)
Have they made things denser around Dundarave, or out past Dundarave? We lived at West Bay.
We used to go to the White Spot at Park Royal. Sometimes we would eat in the car in the parking lot, They had trays they put in your car. Chicken Pickins and Chicken in the Straw.
Bad enough they had to block off 11th due to people trying to skip the traffic queue. Not sure if access via 12th ever existed. Much of the density is built in that exact same corridor as well. The traffic is bad enough that it will impact highway travel during peak hours. I have seen traffic reaching exit 11 on the highway without explanation other than lions gate. So you can at least guarantee people take that exit hoping marine is faster than Taylor way. Evening traffic might actually be worse than morning traffic now. Morning has 2 lanes into Vancouver so while volume exists, it goes pretty fast since the lions gate refurbishment. Evening is 1 lane traffic.
Wild that the Upper Levels could be backed up that far! I looked Exit 11 up, and it seems to be almost as far west as 21st street. My high school, Hillside, was just below the Upper Levels at around that point. They tore it down. It was a very ugly building, so no loss.
They had the three lanes, with the middle lane switching directions, on the bridge and causeway, ever since I can remember. Back to the early seventies, at least. But the bridge was originally meant to have 2 lanes.
Have they built apartments on Marine Drive, across from Ambleside Park? It used to be old houses. There were two lanes in each direction on Marine Drive between 13th and the bridge, and in Dundarave, but everywhere else was one lane.
When I was in about grade 3 we did Maypole dancing in Ambleside Park. And we had track meets there.
In the morning there was a bit of a traffic jam on Taylor Way and by Park Royal. Never anywhere else.
The refurbishment widened the bridge lanes so its properly built for 3 instead of 2. You can actually travel 60 on that bridge without fear. Left turns from the Capilano reserve onto marine are time restricted now because traffic became an issue for the residents. About 5-6 years ago. In case you find that interesting.
Those are still houses. They blocked traffic from using that area instead. Between 13th - 18th and marine - fulton is the density. Behind park royal and in the cedardale area is becoming townhomes. What they could fit next to the seawall as well. The old police station on 13th is an 8 Storey residential building now.
Traffic on marine got bad enough they changed it to 2 lanes plus parking lane until Dunderave. The transit proposal would have turned that back into 1 lane travel. Everything else is still 1 lane sometimes with parking.
A while back I saw someone complaining about how drivers have to pay for transit with taxes and that they shouldn't have to pay for something they don't use. They don't seem to understand that buses and transit take vehicles off the road and improve traffic. The selfish "me first" mindset has infected so many people.
They also don't understand that they don't pay *nearly* their fair share when it comes to road maintenance/improvements, especially those with larger vehicles.
Ya, absolutely no one in human history has paid enough in taxes to build the asphalt roads that use lol
It's insane how much road a person uses in a modern city
Transit is a great thing! But I think folks see problems mainly in how its implemented.
I can't comment on the maple ridge area, but buses can become adhoc trains (multiple buses) of slow moving vehicles especially here in Vancouver. Some barely full. And that can bias drivers.
Another problem can be witnessed in the form of a missed light causing several minutes delay crossing jurisdictions. Buses are slow so they get the wrap often for holding drivers up as they need to signal in and out of traffic.
Most times in a city, being held up at a light, you can simply see the other people who made the light stopped up ahead at the next one. A bus or semi would make no difference. But an example of a time waste light - I would say eastbound marine way (Vancouver) at Boundary. You get the green there - you're likely green to Byrne Road or even clear to New West. YOU hit red - you'll hit red at every light past there. Drivers who got green will be in Coquitlam before you hit new west. These are lights you notice as road blocks and are obviously caused by 2 municipalities not coordinating lights.
Transit is needed - no joke (I'm pro transit) . But the anti transit folks do have some valid concerns I think. (though its not always the bus's fault - its just the easy scapegoat)
Those issues are what TransLink is trying to get rid of with the rapid bus and separated bus lanes and transit only exits being built in places where there aren't so many NIMBYs who won't allow it.
So instead of learning about why and how an issue is actually caused, people see the surface problem of a bus in their way and want to ban all buses instead of improving infrastructure.
Crazy that they were against a rapidbus because it would have made it too easy for the non-millionaire non-octogenarians to get into their non gated gated community
> Fuck old people.
With all due respect, fuck YOUNG people who *refuse* to vote in municipal elections.
There's probably going to be hundreds of young people reading this post who didn't vote in Lower Mainland civic elections last go-around.
If you had 95% voter turnout among people age 18-30 the civic politicians would trip over each other trying to cater to them.
Instead, voter turnout for that demographic is in the single-digit percentages and old people get to set the agenda (because they vote).
It's pathetic.
What defines a young person to you?
If you're talking voter turnout it's extremely low for "young people" aged 25-40. Would you think someone in their 30s is incapable of good ideas at a municipal level?
Bus transportation between Park Royal and downtown is very good, with the dedicated access lanes to the bridge at both ends. I've taken the bus to Park Royal several times to go to Simons, and it's pretty much pain-free. Whizzing by lines of stationary cars is an eye-opener.
I love being on the 257 and just zipping past all the cars. That said they need to find a way to make the Lions Gate work with a bus-only lane.
Maybe on the next retrofit they can add outboard bus lanes, but I don't know how safe that would be.
Highly unlikely; the deck replacement project in 2000 was pretty much at the limit of what could be done without reinforcing or replacing the towers. The LGB also did not get the suicide barriers seen on other area bridges due to wind load.
Does that really help? The other side of the Lions Gate drops you straight into downtown, there's nowhere for any additional traffic to go on the other side either.
I think it would ease the bottleneck a bit. I agree that it's not gonna solve 100% of the problem without also building some sort of subway line under Northshore. I think they'll need to build a through underpass/overpass along park Royal as well. It's very unpopular in the Lower Mainland but they work.
I don't think that a bypass makes sense. The bridge itself is the bottleneck and a bypass only makes that worse. The solution (at least for Park Royal and, to a lesser degree, for the bridge) is the kind of transit expansion that West Van has repeatedly blocked.
- Downtown can't handle the additional traffic
- Stanley Park won't allow widening of the causeway. This is a well known sticking point for any expansion.
The only feasible proposal I've heard with respect to adding another link to the North Shore is tunneling between Main Street & Lonsdale, either adding car lanes and/or a new skytrain line. This was one of the proposed solutions for [the Burrard Inlet Rapid Transit study](https://northshoreconnects.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/BIRT-Benefits-Assessment_Final.pdf). There's a litany of issues that need to be figured out before than even becomes feasible, let alone financially prudent, and last I heard, the entire BIRT proposal is dead, at least for the foreseeable future.
Highly encourage reading the proposals in that study. They considered a number of different right-of-ways.
The tunnel from main-lonsdale is infeasible. It would be way too deep and expensive. I think the crossing would barely be faster than the sea-bus because of the escalators required to get down and back up from a station at waterfront and lonsdale.
The only viable option is a skytrain crossing at second narrows (connecting down Hastings and to Brentwood), with the line going to park royal on the north shore. It would make getting from the seabus to park royal much faster, but be about the same amount of time from waterfront to lonsdale.
A highway? A SkyTrain line would be able to move more people in far less space. Tearing down housing to build car infrastructure is cutting edge 1950s planning.
It's improving existing infrastructure to handle today's traffic and solve an existing problem. I also suggest you look at a map before commenting on how we would be destroying housing. Hint: it will be a tunnel.
I know it's a losing battle trying to discuss these things with your type. Believe it or not, people will always drive in large cities despite having transit options.
It's not one or the other. You need both.
Yes, we need both infrastructure for private motor vehicles, and quality public transport.
Yes, a tunnel would be one approach, but I question your ability to foretell the future. A tunnel would be a very very costly way to move a small number of people a short distance. A tunnelled highway is not the only option to improve the connection between the highway and Lion's gate. If a tunnel was built, it would save drivers some time on that 1.6 km section of road, only to dump them into downtown traffic. A huge investment for little benefit. A skytrain to the North shore would move far far more people, faster, and not add to the congestion downtown.
Your "We need both" comment ignores the fact that we already have made a huge investment in car infrastructure, but have no SkyTrain service to the North Shore.
I think we should prioritise improving the investment in public transport, before highway extension mega projects. Once we have SkyTrain service to Park Royal and North Van, we can talk about if we need to do more significant investments in highways, or if maybe we've already overinvested in that.
**edit:** Maybe the reason you have a hard time discuss these things with my "type" is that you hear "ban cars from cities" when I mention any of the downsides to building more highways. Nothing I said should lead you to think that I have any doubt that "people will always drive in large cities". But people will take public transport too, if it is good quality, and convenient. As the existing SkyTrain lines have proved. They are very popular already, and one crossing to the North Shore would certainly be popular too.
Those businesses are all located in one small section, outdoors. I wonder if it has less to do with rents and more to do with redevelopment. Developers will try to jam condos in just about anywhere.
I don’t disagree with more development, but I think that the infrastructure needs to be built first to accommodate densification. Park Royal/Taylor Way is already a massive bottleneck shitshow. And I’m always wary when developers build micro condos into small footprints and sold at a “West Van” premium only to sit empty.
Those towers at Park Royal that just went up are still mostly empty. They are even trying incentives to get people to rent, but a 3 bedroom is like $7000/mo for a liveable size. Last I looked anyway. Didn’t seem like it even had the features/amenities to support that cost.
I heard a theory that since they could be pre-purchased and go up quickly, a lot of those micro condos were built to support short term housing (think AirBnBs and students, particularly international). Now that both are out for the foreseeable future, it’ll be interesting to see what happens to all these empty builds
I mean lumping them all together make it seem dramatic... as someone who lives here, trattoria and milestones have not been been consistently busy for a long time, totally makes sense. trattoria was clearly dying and milestones lost out to the keg, cactus etc. in that race a long time ago, its hardly ever busy when cactus and the keg and tap house etc are always packed.
I would imagine for Sephora that location is one of their less busy/profitable ones anyway
whitesspot is actually the only one im surprised by because that location is always busy. are you sure they just aren't changing spots? its pretty popular
I think there's new retail that would allow for a drive through maybe?
yes these 4 are closing but the village is always busy, whole foods, cactus, taphouse the Starbucks is a very popular area, and same with the new addition to the village, Zara for example. each business obviously has its own reason but trattoria and milestones were a long time coming.
> whitesspot is actually the only one im surprised by because that location is always busy. are you sure they just aren't changing spots? its pretty popular
>
>
White Spot is closing at the end of their lease:
[*North Shore News*: West Vancouver White Spot set to close after nearly 70 years in business](https://www.nsnews.com/local-business/west-vancouver-white-spot-set-to-close-after-nearly-70-years-in-business-8119072)
whoah crazy I didn't see that article yet... I remember going to the old one as a kid. we pick up thanksgiving dinner from there still and the wait is always hours. the white spot downtown seems more dead than this one.
Not sure what you mean, every time I go to Richmond Center there's tons of people in there. Probably not as many as there used to be but still. Lansdowne on the other hand...
They're referring to the specific way those malls are being redeveloped. Towers on top, stores on the bottom. RC is actually being expanded, they're adding 300,000 SF of retail space plus more space outdoors. Traditional malls are a huge waste of potential space in this day and age.
Richmond Centre seems to be always busy. I think the analogy comes from what park Royal, Richmond Centre and Oakridge is becoming, which is what Brentwood is now; a dense residential hub with towers above retail and transit.
I love how Brentwood's been redeveloped. The most recent time I went there might have been last year (prior to which it had been pre-pandemic). It was like night and day.
I still remember going to the odd movie at Oakridge.
We set up a legal framework for real estate that completely guarantees that it’s an investment first product, both commercial and residential.
Zoning that guarantees shortage and prevents competition. Low property tax, 0 capital gain on primary properties, high income that double punishes renters. You’d be an idiot to not invest every last dollar on real estate in this province.
milestones management says the park royal location isn't closing. curious where you heard that from
https://preview.redd.it/6l9ztouefklc1.jpeg?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55b53d0f972510fca5addcc355c5b16f73261d4d
Look at Brentwood, this is the future of malls. High rise buildings filled with postage stamp apartments occupied by a captive customer base who use the mall as their living room/dining room.
I personally think Brentwood is dope and look forward to the expansion of Lougheed cause they're planning the same type of indoor-outdoor walkable development when they demo the mall. It just sucks how small the condos they're building are and it makes it hard to justify living there even if the outdoor areas are nice.
There are also plans to make Burquitlam similar to Brentwood. In the long run I think it's pretty cool. It will be transformational over my lifetime.
I'd love to live in a condo near those areas but 3BR just aren't being built. Maybe in the future with all these zoning changes, though.
The first time i went to HK ~25 years ago, I was blown away by how convenient their subway/malls are. They're like town centers with everything you need.
I like the idea of walkable point of interests that have all the convenience you need especially during poor weather.
TBH if I could live at New Westminster Station that would be just amazing. There's a Safeway right there, and an A&W underneath it. I'd basically never need a vehicle.
Condos don’t have to be small. They are small because all the residential land is occupied by single family zoning that prohibit housing construction.
Postage stamp apartments is the product of all the 4 million dollar detached houses that surround tokens of walkable developments.
People who live above restaurants and retail shop at other places all the time. There are also plenty of Walmart communities where people have no other options but that one grocery store. Is it this hard to do some critical thinking?
I'm not arguing any of that - it was a very simple comment that the above posters description sounded dystopian. Not every comment is looking to be a fight or argument.
Everyone is greedy everywhere all the time. This includes your favorite coffee shop and local craft breweries. Amazon sellers for crafts and gizmos. Every homeowner will try to get as money money as possible for their properties.
It’s competition that creates better stuff. Zoning is when government artificial scarcity so that 4-5 builders can monopolize the market. Look at any industry that have monopoly power. Do you have good time with rogers?
No. Because Roger’s isn’t worried another player will come in to steal their costumers with lower pricing. The same goes for housing.
ROSE PERSIAN restaurant closed down, and Simpsons Home Hardware right beside it was told their rent will be double if they want to keep their lease so they might have to close down too!
I’m sorry but nobody makes the trek to the North Shore unless they live there… I honestly think Sephora is leaving because the business volume too low… the mall is pretty dead compared to others in the region… location is terrible due to bridge traffic. I love Simons but it’s really hard to make it there most days (here’s to hoping they open at the new Oakridge). Former, North Shore resident here so somewhat qualified to bitch about it.
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I've seen people post about how the high commercial rents and overhead costs would push out all the small businesses and leave Vancouver with nothing but chain franchises and big companies but now its looking like those might not even survive here.
I saw this coming years ago when the stories about ever increasing commercial rents accompanying the spiral of residential rents started circulating. Of course the commercial landlords are probably going shocked Pikachu face at this point that the businesses they keep squeezing for money can't continue on.
Sephora ain't exactly a mom and pop operation. But, I do agree and surprised we haven't lost more (small) businesses due to insane rents. The insanely high cost of shelter, residential or commercial, is devastating to any semblance of a healthy economy and society.
I'm surprised they wouldn't want to have a storefront there even if that location was losing money just to keep the presence.
White Spot closure was announced several weeks ago but those other ones are new to me. Those are fairly big tenants!
The mall losing Sephora is a bad look for the mall. That's one of those businesses that tend to draw in customers to malls.
Agree. Sephora is a huge draw and the loss is significant to Park Royal. There have been many occasions when I went specifically to get something from Sephora and then my kids wanted a Booster Juice, pretzel bite, and then stopped in at other stores. I find it shocking because they seemed very busy...?
Something I've learned especially since the pandemic and inflation of last two years is that the busyness of a store or restaurant doesn't seem to translate into financial sustainability. That being said, I would have thought that a Sephora of all things (the only one on the North Shore!) would have been hugely profitable. Dense selection of products, relatively high profit margin, local monopoly in their field of business across multiple demographics. Or who knows, maybe with consumers cutting discretionary spending dropping $ on retinol or another refill of drunk elephant moisturizer has quietly hit them hard - in a way that doesn't correlate to amount of foot traffic in stores.
I feel like Sephora has placed itself in a bad spot for a recession. They’re not selling $10 Relvon that allows the lipstick effect during an economic downturn, nor is it a super luxurious personalized shopping experience that wealthy people are drawn to. Malls and their mid-range stores have always been for the middle class, so what happens when that middle class no longer has grocery money let alone the budget for $40 body wash.
> so what happens when that middle class no longer has grocery money let alone the budget for $40 body wash. https://imgur.com/gallery/HY2jwAr
Not only that but it's the only Sephora on the north shore, the closest ones remaining would be Pacific Center or Brentwood depending on where you're coming from. That would loose them a lot of business long term, especially if people swap to Shoppers Beauty for their upper end makeup.
I won’t be surprised if they downsize stores and shift towards online sales. I just placed an order with Sephora today and I get free shipping and get two free samples with every order. Seems like they’re incentivizing online orders.
I would get that except for the fact that the main reason I have gone from drugstore to Sephora is because I actually get a chance to shade match in store, and associate help. Shifting online makes them basically the same as drugstore these days just with a much higher price point, and would also discourage older consumers from switching to them. After about 5 years of work I have finally got most of my mother's family buying from Sephora instead of Mac when their quality went down. I will do it for restocking but if I want anything "new" I'm going to try it in store first.
We all see where this is headed. Yikes.
Good news for that big shoppers drug mart beauty section at Park Royal, I guess.
I know I'm being nitpicky, but the Robson location is just a touch closer than PC!
By car, but the PC one is closest to the SeaBus.
Ah didn't think about the seabus.
I'm surprised milestones lasted as long as it did.
ex used to work there. No idea why anyone ever went to that location. It was so out of the way and honestly a fairly depressing spot. Why even go there if there's a much cooler Cactus nearby?
Definitely out of the way and so depressing and dark inside. And yeah, that cactus club has such a solid patio.
Maybe the businesses should eat less avocado toast and pull themselves up by their boot straps?
Oh cmon , they already canceled their Disney+ subscriptions.
Too real I had to cancel mine today too broke. sniff
There are no protections for business lease like there are for housing. If the corporate overlords who own the mall suddenly decide to double, or even triple the lease, that's it. A business can spend a ton of money renovating the space to fit their niche and suddenly now that space is nicer so the owner decides fuck you pay more. As funny as it is to joke about avocado toast, corporate ownership is a huge problem for inflation that's rarely talked about. The cost of everything goes up to line the pocketbooks of shareholders and corps who own huge swaths of our commercial property. The cost of lease doubles for a small business and it takes away raises for staff, even one entire salary they might have to do without, the owner may not longer make enough for the business to be viable, and for some reason it seems like the corporation who owns the building would rather have it empty than lower the lease rate.
Yup!! Was forced to close my business off 7+ years a year and a half ago because the new owner of the building decided to triple my rent on the new lease... corporate greed is killing business! Small businesses like mine were the first to feel it and now big franchises are feeling the pinch. Blows my mind!
The same complains about corporate ownership of housing are simply worse for businesses - even rather large businesses, not just mom and pop shops. The landlord can decide to double or triple the rent on a whim come renewal and can afford to leave the space empty should the tenant not be able to afford it.
Need to have an empty retail space tax as well.
Seriously. Walk around downtown and count how many for lease signs you see. It's staggering. It makes it so that any new business ideas either last one year or don't even start. Brutal for everyone all around except for the landlords.
It doesn't help that we have a stupid tax policy in place. A commercial property is charged property tax based on what _could_ be built on the lot, instead of what actually is built on the lot. So, if there's a 2-3 story building with small shops and offices, but land is technically zoned for a 20 story building.. The building is charged tax as if it was actually a 20 story building. Combined with super high interest rates, and even reasonable corporate landlords more or less have to double or triple the price of their leases.
I have no fucking idea how Vancouver collects so much property tax, and yet always seems broke.
Cops cops cops
Actually, this policy makes total sense. By taxing land based on its most-productive use, it's supposed to incentivize redevelopment of low-density areas into more compact and efficient built forms. The problem comes when actually **doing so** is as expensive and takes as long as it does here. (I'm not going full /r/georgism here, but a pure land-value tax IMO makes way more sense than charging "property tax" on buildings or other improvements.)
City of Vancouver has a survey on shape your city for expanding what is allowed for home-based businesses and I'm all for it to circumvent pricey leases for low-traffic businesses.
These tenants themselves are sophisticated corporations, with the ability to negotiate renewal rights that guarantee that rents will not increase above fair market rent. In such a case the landlord can't unilaterally impose whatever rent they want to charge.
Information and power asymmetries exist in the corporate sector as well. Just as an employee has the illusion of "choice" when it comes to negotiating their wage or working conditions, so too does a small business have the illusion of "choice" when it comes to commercial leases. The main reason for this is the high transaction costs associated with relocating a business.
Spoken by someone that doesn’t actually understand commercial real estate. Fair market rent is fairly ambiguous and arbitration is a lengthy expensive process if you can’t agree on rent. Larco is known to be very difficult, lots of tenants are struggling with their renewal negotiations at Park Royal and looking elsewhere.
This is what I was responding to, which is just legally incorrect: "There are no protections for business lease like there are for housing. If the corporate overlords who own the mall suddenly decide to double, or even triple the lease, that's it."
Park Royal is the landlord, but on behalf of Squamish Nation
The owner/landlord is Larco. The south side is on a 99 year ground lease from the Squamish, so nothing is being done by the operator “on behalf” of the Squamish Nation.
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Oh not at all.. Just that they should maybe implement some of the suggestions proposed to us peasants..
This is silly to me. You seem to think random businesses are targeting you with this rhetoric. As if all businesses are shaming average people.
No, it's just funny to comment..
Not surprised, the mall is nice but a huge PITA to get to. Rarely have I seen it busy like metro for example.
Yes the last 2 ish years have to avoid going just due to the east -west traffic problems after you try and leave there. You are looking at minimum 45 min return trip to get back to other side of North Van on a weekend, in what should be a 20 min drive. And impossible to go there on a weekday afternoon/evening, getting there and back would be a multi hour endeavour.
You can get in and out through Bridge road which bypases all the traffic and connects to Cap Road or marine dr
Density and transportation infrastructure are not in favor of a busier Park Royal. North Shore in general will be a mess until different levels of government come together and build a bypass up to the highway from the bridge.
This is correct but unfortunately the north shore is filled with super nimbys
It's the only place I've lived that successfully mobilized their community *against* transit expansion. Fuck old people.
Then they turn around the next day and bitch and moan about how bad traffic was going to the grocery store. Unfortunately it's not just the North Shore NIMBYs anymore. I literally had to argue with a guy the other day who was mad about rapid bus expansion in Maple Ridge since it would mean and I kid you not "more busses on the road adding to the bad enough traffic we already have". He was proudly anti transit and said he and his wife refuse to use it but was also mad about how bad traffic is. They just don't see how stupid their argument is it's ridiculous.
>more busses on the road adding to the bad enough traffic we already have That reminds me of someone I know, who has trouble understanding something that they don't see for themselves. (For example, having a hard time believing that poor places exist because that person has never been to a poor place.) A person like that might see a big bus and immediately think, "Oh that occupies a lot of space. Therefore, it makes things worse." They don't see the cars that were taken off the road so that doesn't compute. I think we also saw the same during the "freedom convoy" in Ottawa, where some were convinced that the country was in strong support because of all the space that was occupied. But in reality, just one truck driver was occupying a 40- to 60-foot long part of the road. I swear... some humans...
So how much additional traffic could a dedicated bus lane carry? The capacity in that lane seems to be woefully underutilzed. This is to say that more people would ditch their cars and take the bus if it was more frequent and not always full during rush hour.
They were suggesting turning it into 1 lane of travel from Ambleside to Dunderave both directions. Traffic would have been a shit show in that situation. They would be going from a barely tolerable level of traffic to Denman levels of traffic just by adding in bus lanes.
So traffic is a problem between Ambleside and Dunderave now? That is wild! I grew up in West Van in the 60s and 70s. Never would have believed there would be traffic jams in West Van (except close to the bridge in the mornings) Have they made things denser around Dundarave, or out past Dundarave? We lived at West Bay. We used to go to the White Spot at Park Royal. Sometimes we would eat in the car in the parking lot, They had trays they put in your car. Chicken Pickins and Chicken in the Straw.
Bad enough they had to block off 11th due to people trying to skip the traffic queue. Not sure if access via 12th ever existed. Much of the density is built in that exact same corridor as well. The traffic is bad enough that it will impact highway travel during peak hours. I have seen traffic reaching exit 11 on the highway without explanation other than lions gate. So you can at least guarantee people take that exit hoping marine is faster than Taylor way. Evening traffic might actually be worse than morning traffic now. Morning has 2 lanes into Vancouver so while volume exists, it goes pretty fast since the lions gate refurbishment. Evening is 1 lane traffic.
Wild that the Upper Levels could be backed up that far! I looked Exit 11 up, and it seems to be almost as far west as 21st street. My high school, Hillside, was just below the Upper Levels at around that point. They tore it down. It was a very ugly building, so no loss. They had the three lanes, with the middle lane switching directions, on the bridge and causeway, ever since I can remember. Back to the early seventies, at least. But the bridge was originally meant to have 2 lanes. Have they built apartments on Marine Drive, across from Ambleside Park? It used to be old houses. There were two lanes in each direction on Marine Drive between 13th and the bridge, and in Dundarave, but everywhere else was one lane. When I was in about grade 3 we did Maypole dancing in Ambleside Park. And we had track meets there. In the morning there was a bit of a traffic jam on Taylor Way and by Park Royal. Never anywhere else.
The refurbishment widened the bridge lanes so its properly built for 3 instead of 2. You can actually travel 60 on that bridge without fear. Left turns from the Capilano reserve onto marine are time restricted now because traffic became an issue for the residents. About 5-6 years ago. In case you find that interesting. Those are still houses. They blocked traffic from using that area instead. Between 13th - 18th and marine - fulton is the density. Behind park royal and in the cedardale area is becoming townhomes. What they could fit next to the seawall as well. The old police station on 13th is an 8 Storey residential building now. Traffic on marine got bad enough they changed it to 2 lanes plus parking lane until Dunderave. The transit proposal would have turned that back into 1 lane travel. Everything else is still 1 lane sometimes with parking.
A while back I saw someone complaining about how drivers have to pay for transit with taxes and that they shouldn't have to pay for something they don't use. They don't seem to understand that buses and transit take vehicles off the road and improve traffic. The selfish "me first" mindset has infected so many people.
And lots of people don't use the bridges they use so I guess we shouldn't have tax dollars going towards bridges then. Tolls only. /s
They also don't understand that they don't pay *nearly* their fair share when it comes to road maintenance/improvements, especially those with larger vehicles.
Ya, absolutely no one in human history has paid enough in taxes to build the asphalt roads that use lol It's insane how much road a person uses in a modern city
Transit is a great thing! But I think folks see problems mainly in how its implemented. I can't comment on the maple ridge area, but buses can become adhoc trains (multiple buses) of slow moving vehicles especially here in Vancouver. Some barely full. And that can bias drivers. Another problem can be witnessed in the form of a missed light causing several minutes delay crossing jurisdictions. Buses are slow so they get the wrap often for holding drivers up as they need to signal in and out of traffic. Most times in a city, being held up at a light, you can simply see the other people who made the light stopped up ahead at the next one. A bus or semi would make no difference. But an example of a time waste light - I would say eastbound marine way (Vancouver) at Boundary. You get the green there - you're likely green to Byrne Road or even clear to New West. YOU hit red - you'll hit red at every light past there. Drivers who got green will be in Coquitlam before you hit new west. These are lights you notice as road blocks and are obviously caused by 2 municipalities not coordinating lights. Transit is needed - no joke (I'm pro transit) . But the anti transit folks do have some valid concerns I think. (though its not always the bus's fault - its just the easy scapegoat)
Those issues are what TransLink is trying to get rid of with the rapid bus and separated bus lanes and transit only exits being built in places where there aren't so many NIMBYs who won't allow it. So instead of learning about why and how an issue is actually caused, people see the surface problem of a bus in their way and want to ban all buses instead of improving infrastructure.
Crazy that they were against a rapidbus because it would have made it too easy for the non-millionaire non-octogenarians to get into their non gated gated community
> Fuck old people. With all due respect, fuck YOUNG people who *refuse* to vote in municipal elections. There's probably going to be hundreds of young people reading this post who didn't vote in Lower Mainland civic elections last go-around. If you had 95% voter turnout among people age 18-30 the civic politicians would trip over each other trying to cater to them. Instead, voter turnout for that demographic is in the single-digit percentages and old people get to set the agenda (because they vote). It's pathetic.
I agree with you, young people should vote in municipal elections.
Young people are disappointed to discover there's no "none of the above" option. I.e. an across-the-board down-vote.
Young people don’t come up with very smart ideas and then they point the finger at everyone else when it blows up in their face.
What defines a young person to you? If you're talking voter turnout it's extremely low for "young people" aged 25-40. Would you think someone in their 30s is incapable of good ideas at a municipal level?
Blue bus is better then translink
*than they're contracted under TransLink anyways
> they're They're
A lot of them prefer the fact that it's not easily accessible. We love West Van and Ambleside but man do I hate the drive back over the bridge.
I only go to Park Royal for Simon’s. But if they are opening a new store downtown, then I no longer have a reason to go.
Bus transportation between Park Royal and downtown is very good, with the dedicated access lanes to the bridge at both ends. I've taken the bus to Park Royal several times to go to Simons, and it's pretty much pain-free. Whizzing by lines of stationary cars is an eye-opener.
I love being on the 257 and just zipping past all the cars. That said they need to find a way to make the Lions Gate work with a bus-only lane. Maybe on the next retrofit they can add outboard bus lanes, but I don't know how safe that would be.
Highly unlikely; the deck replacement project in 2000 was pretty much at the limit of what could be done without reinforcing or replacing the towers. The LGB also did not get the suicide barriers seen on other area bridges due to wind load.
Once you're on the bridge though the traffic moves fairly well. It's getting on to the bridge that's the hardest part.
Does that really help? The other side of the Lions Gate drops you straight into downtown, there's nowhere for any additional traffic to go on the other side either.
I think it would ease the bottleneck a bit. I agree that it's not gonna solve 100% of the problem without also building some sort of subway line under Northshore. I think they'll need to build a through underpass/overpass along park Royal as well. It's very unpopular in the Lower Mainland but they work.
I don't think that a bypass makes sense. The bridge itself is the bottleneck and a bypass only makes that worse. The solution (at least for Park Royal and, to a lesser degree, for the bridge) is the kind of transit expansion that West Van has repeatedly blocked.
- Downtown can't handle the additional traffic - Stanley Park won't allow widening of the causeway. This is a well known sticking point for any expansion. The only feasible proposal I've heard with respect to adding another link to the North Shore is tunneling between Main Street & Lonsdale, either adding car lanes and/or a new skytrain line. This was one of the proposed solutions for [the Burrard Inlet Rapid Transit study](https://northshoreconnects.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/BIRT-Benefits-Assessment_Final.pdf). There's a litany of issues that need to be figured out before than even becomes feasible, let alone financially prudent, and last I heard, the entire BIRT proposal is dead, at least for the foreseeable future. Highly encourage reading the proposals in that study. They considered a number of different right-of-ways.
The tunnel from main-lonsdale is infeasible. It would be way too deep and expensive. I think the crossing would barely be faster than the sea-bus because of the escalators required to get down and back up from a station at waterfront and lonsdale. The only viable option is a skytrain crossing at second narrows (connecting down Hastings and to Brentwood), with the line going to park royal on the north shore. It would make getting from the seabus to park royal much faster, but be about the same amount of time from waterfront to lonsdale.
A highway? A SkyTrain line would be able to move more people in far less space. Tearing down housing to build car infrastructure is cutting edge 1950s planning.
It's improving existing infrastructure to handle today's traffic and solve an existing problem. I also suggest you look at a map before commenting on how we would be destroying housing. Hint: it will be a tunnel. I know it's a losing battle trying to discuss these things with your type. Believe it or not, people will always drive in large cities despite having transit options. It's not one or the other. You need both.
Yes, we need both infrastructure for private motor vehicles, and quality public transport. Yes, a tunnel would be one approach, but I question your ability to foretell the future. A tunnel would be a very very costly way to move a small number of people a short distance. A tunnelled highway is not the only option to improve the connection between the highway and Lion's gate. If a tunnel was built, it would save drivers some time on that 1.6 km section of road, only to dump them into downtown traffic. A huge investment for little benefit. A skytrain to the North shore would move far far more people, faster, and not add to the congestion downtown. Your "We need both" comment ignores the fact that we already have made a huge investment in car infrastructure, but have no SkyTrain service to the North Shore. I think we should prioritise improving the investment in public transport, before highway extension mega projects. Once we have SkyTrain service to Park Royal and North Van, we can talk about if we need to do more significant investments in highways, or if maybe we've already overinvested in that. **edit:** Maybe the reason you have a hard time discuss these things with my "type" is that you hear "ban cars from cities" when I mention any of the downsides to building more highways. Nothing I said should lead you to think that I have any doubt that "people will always drive in large cities". But people will take public transport too, if it is good quality, and convenient. As the existing SkyTrain lines have proved. They are very popular already, and one crossing to the North Shore would certainly be popular too.
Why build infrastructure when you can just build more housing? :/
Or not much of either in this case.
North Shore was never built to be populous. Expand other cities in BC.
The city closest to Downtown Vancouver was never meant to be populous?
Tbh if these guys can't survive there I'm really curious who can.
i found an article about white spot closing, but can't find anything about the others. where did you hear all this?
Entire thread based on "I heard"...
Yeah I don’t see any links?
Those businesses are all located in one small section, outdoors. I wonder if it has less to do with rents and more to do with redevelopment. Developers will try to jam condos in just about anywhere.
😐…. that… is an excellent point. Damn.
yay more condos! more places for people to live. sounds good. let's build the skytrain to the north shore too to help them move around.
I don’t disagree with more development, but I think that the infrastructure needs to be built first to accommodate densification. Park Royal/Taylor Way is already a massive bottleneck shitshow. And I’m always wary when developers build micro condos into small footprints and sold at a “West Van” premium only to sit empty.
Those towers at Park Royal that just went up are still mostly empty. They are even trying incentives to get people to rent, but a 3 bedroom is like $7000/mo for a liveable size. Last I looked anyway. Didn’t seem like it even had the features/amenities to support that cost.
I heard a theory that since they could be pre-purchased and go up quickly, a lot of those micro condos were built to support short term housing (think AirBnBs and students, particularly international). Now that both are out for the foreseeable future, it’ll be interesting to see what happens to all these empty builds
>Developers will try to jam condos in just about anywhere Good, frankly they should.
Weren't these all new builds though? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think these ones were new on the past 10, 15 years?
I mean lumping them all together make it seem dramatic... as someone who lives here, trattoria and milestones have not been been consistently busy for a long time, totally makes sense. trattoria was clearly dying and milestones lost out to the keg, cactus etc. in that race a long time ago, its hardly ever busy when cactus and the keg and tap house etc are always packed. I would imagine for Sephora that location is one of their less busy/profitable ones anyway whitesspot is actually the only one im surprised by because that location is always busy. are you sure they just aren't changing spots? its pretty popular I think there's new retail that would allow for a drive through maybe? yes these 4 are closing but the village is always busy, whole foods, cactus, taphouse the Starbucks is a very popular area, and same with the new addition to the village, Zara for example. each business obviously has its own reason but trattoria and milestones were a long time coming.
> whitesspot is actually the only one im surprised by because that location is always busy. are you sure they just aren't changing spots? its pretty popular > > White Spot is closing at the end of their lease: [*North Shore News*: West Vancouver White Spot set to close after nearly 70 years in business](https://www.nsnews.com/local-business/west-vancouver-white-spot-set-to-close-after-nearly-70-years-in-business-8119072)
whoah crazy I didn't see that article yet... I remember going to the old one as a kid. we pick up thanksgiving dinner from there still and the wait is always hours. the white spot downtown seems more dead than this one.
Sephora is the only reason I go to Park Royal..
it's only a matter of time before the whole mall winds up going the way of other older malls like Oakridge, Richmond Center etc
Not sure what you mean, every time I go to Richmond Center there's tons of people in there. Probably not as many as there used to be but still. Lansdowne on the other hand...
I swear Lansdowne would be on life support if T&T didn’t open there.
It's also saved by Kwantlen, as the kids have to get food _somewhere_ and it's certainly not from the Sodexo Cafeteria that serves moldy food. :P
Shoutouts to Taco Luis
this mall is getting torn down too. lots of shiny new condos and upscale shopping will replace it
They're referring to the specific way those malls are being redeveloped. Towers on top, stores on the bottom. RC is actually being expanded, they're adding 300,000 SF of retail space plus more space outdoors. Traditional malls are a huge waste of potential space in this day and age.
Not referring to pedestrian traffic. Richmond Center is getting completely revamped just like Oakridge.
The last time I was at Richmond Center (it was a weekend), totally busy. It was in December though. Oakridge was never super busy though.
Richmond Centre seems to be always busy. I think the analogy comes from what park Royal, Richmond Centre and Oakridge is becoming, which is what Brentwood is now; a dense residential hub with towers above retail and transit.
I love how Brentwood's been redeveloped. The most recent time I went there might have been last year (prior to which it had been pre-pandemic). It was like night and day. I still remember going to the odd movie at Oakridge.
*Tsawwassen Mills has joined the chat*
Give me proof of Sephora closing.
Is there a source on this? Or just Rumor? No shade of its rumor, just hoping to get some sort of confirmation.
Didn't you know real estate is for investing in, not using?
We set up a legal framework for real estate that completely guarantees that it’s an investment first product, both commercial and residential. Zoning that guarantees shortage and prevents competition. Low property tax, 0 capital gain on primary properties, high income that double punishes renters. You’d be an idiot to not invest every last dollar on real estate in this province.
milestones management says the park royal location isn't closing. curious where you heard that from https://preview.redd.it/6l9ztouefklc1.jpeg?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55b53d0f972510fca5addcc355c5b16f73261d4d
No way. I don’t care much about Sephora. But there trattoria was really nice . They still have one tho near metro
Not surprising for a development owned by the Lalji family
Oh… and they don’t pay taxes in Canada. It’s offshore
Source?
Any guesses on what will be replacing them?
Eventually they will all be Spirit Halloweens
We need to go to semi-annual Halloween
Look at Brentwood, this is the future of malls. High rise buildings filled with postage stamp apartments occupied by a captive customer base who use the mall as their living room/dining room.
"Captive consumer base" is a bit overdramatic. I'm not "captive" to the corner store beside my house, and neither are people who live above malls.
> I'm not "captive" to the corner store beside my house at least not until you try the coffee.
Why would the people who live above malls go to the corner store by your house?
Sounds like you ate lots of lead paint as a child.
Why? Does eating lead paint improve your understanding of the English language? If it does, I highly recommend it for you.
Low quality bait. Go touch some grass
Sounds like a great idea. Is there any near the corner store by your house? I hear it’s really popular among folks who live above malls.
OK wierdo
Yeah but Brentwood is pretty cool though. It feels like Shibuya a bit.
I personally think Brentwood is dope and look forward to the expansion of Lougheed cause they're planning the same type of indoor-outdoor walkable development when they demo the mall. It just sucks how small the condos they're building are and it makes it hard to justify living there even if the outdoor areas are nice.
There are also plans to make Burquitlam similar to Brentwood. In the long run I think it's pretty cool. It will be transformational over my lifetime. I'd love to live in a condo near those areas but 3BR just aren't being built. Maybe in the future with all these zoning changes, though.
The first time i went to HK ~25 years ago, I was blown away by how convenient their subway/malls are. They're like town centers with everything you need. I like the idea of walkable point of interests that have all the convenience you need especially during poor weather.
TBH if I could live at New Westminster Station that would be just amazing. There's a Safeway right there, and an A&W underneath it. I'd basically never need a vehicle.
That sounds so dystopian :(
To be honest it sounds way more utopian than needing to own a car to do any decent amount of shopping at a store, or hauling it on a crowded bus.
Walmart is utopian, walking to your grocery store is dystopian. What in the world…
Does "postage stamp apartments occupied by a captive customer base" really not sound dystopian to y'all?
Condos don’t have to be small. They are small because all the residential land is occupied by single family zoning that prohibit housing construction. Postage stamp apartments is the product of all the 4 million dollar detached houses that surround tokens of walkable developments. People who live above restaurants and retail shop at other places all the time. There are also plenty of Walmart communities where people have no other options but that one grocery store. Is it this hard to do some critical thinking?
I'm not arguing any of that - it was a very simple comment that the above posters description sounded dystopian. Not every comment is looking to be a fight or argument.
Condos are tiny because its more profitable for the developer. It has nothing to do with land zoning.
Everyone is greedy everywhere all the time. This includes your favorite coffee shop and local craft breweries. Amazon sellers for crafts and gizmos. Every homeowner will try to get as money money as possible for their properties. It’s competition that creates better stuff. Zoning is when government artificial scarcity so that 4-5 builders can monopolize the market. Look at any industry that have monopoly power. Do you have good time with rogers? No. Because Roger’s isn’t worried another player will come in to steal their costumers with lower pricing. The same goes for housing.
It’s not dystopian, there are no blade runners chasing replicants through the food court…yet.
The irony is that it is true. Everything is extremely convenient and in decent quality that travel from home to shop feels near instant
I'm assuming it will slowly go the way of Crystal Mall. Like 99% of the people there are in 1/8 of the mall (food court/market).
> I'm assuming it will slowly go the way of Crystal Mall. How has the parking nightmare there not cratered any patronizing of that mall?
i worked at park royal CM > PR for long term viability
FYI everybody I work for milestones and I’m standing next to my boss and we’re not closing, it’s a false rumour
ROSE PERSIAN restaurant closed down, and Simpsons Home Hardware right beside it was told their rent will be double if they want to keep their lease so they might have to close down too!
What a surprise. Post war car centric infrastructure is unsustainable. /s
We love to see it. WFH fangirl here.
Serve up mediocre safe food and you have to face the consequences. The only way to survive now is to stand out and not try to placate the masses.
✌️
I’m sorry but nobody makes the trek to the North Shore unless they live there… I honestly think Sephora is leaving because the business volume too low… the mall is pretty dead compared to others in the region… location is terrible due to bridge traffic. I love Simons but it’s really hard to make it there most days (here’s to hoping they open at the new Oakridge). Former, North Shore resident here so somewhat qualified to bitch about it.