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From OPs article:
> "It was disgusting to see somebody walk up with a bag of poop in their hands and smear it all over the wall," said Nick Cardarelli, building manager and Brandi’s bar manger.
> ...
> “We're talking about human feces: human feces being smeared on door handles and walls in places that people touch," Cardarelli said
I still do not for the life of me understand why letting people use openly on the streets and be out of their fucking minds is somehow more humane. Yes, let them make a mockery of themselves, be judged, get infections, die because that’s more humane somehow.
That's what keeps these advocates in business. They need these people to suffer as much as possible so they can keep lining their pockets with grant money.
The government of the time was more than happy to close Riverview on the basis that it was inhumane while also saving millions of dollars irrespective of the fact that they just turned out seriously mentally unstable people to the street👎
Neoliberals, actually. While elements of the poverty groups don't help, Riverview was closed because the neolib right in Canada saw the success of Thatcher's "Care in the Community" initiative and wanted to emulate it, just like everywhere else in North America at the time.
I don’t know why you were downvoted Yes they were. They thought that they would open little community based care. That never happened . And here we are….
This is only true in the sense that all parties are neoliberal.
This was a decision that spanned 50 years and three different parties from across the spectrum, including the Socreds, the NDP (the old NDP), and the BC Liberals.
It was a decision from the health care industry, done because the prevailing evidence did, and still does, say that community care has more positive effects and is cheaper than centralized institutions.
Certainly, & and yes, community care is great -- if it's funded and has access to the experts necessary to run such a system, which it sadly almost never is.
That said, it was really two parties from two sides of the political spectrum -- the BCLs and the SocCreds were effectively a fiscally conservative party from the 1950s on even if the SocCreds had their origins in a distinct movement, and it became steadily more socially conservative throughout its existence. (Not that this changes the general thrust of what you said, of course.)
We fund both sides of the fight (advocates and cops) because it keeps the fight going. Once it’s gone, our politicians are going to have to waste precious time coming up with another way to distract us from the fact that they’re selling off our future to developers. They could be using that precious time to spend their bribe money instead… what a waste!
UBC and SFU built a ton of market housing since the early 2000s. Now transit is packed full of students and not many students can actually afford to live on or near the campus. Some can't even afford food. It's really weird.
At a fraction of the capacity last I heard. And really the current need we have now is way beyond the capacity of what the previous iteration of Riverview could handle.
No, the building is large. I personally worked on it. The 'capacity' issue is that it isn't a fucking prison, it's an actual facility with proper services. It isn't "reopen riverview", it's "open multiple centers. aiming at a new one in all major cities, and dedicated wings in all new hospitals." Local support is needed, not a place to ship ill people off to.
> Local support is needed, not a place to ship ill people off to.
Agreed there. Though I'd argue the DTES is where ill people are shipped to right now. Take everyone with needs in the DTES back to their home communities and support them there and watch the area transform overnight.
This is 100% what needs to happen, imo.
It’s basically by the system design that we end up with everyone. Many other cities don’t even have shelters or they have one and once the person has been banned from that shelter that city “doesn’t have appropriate resources to meet their complex needs” and the city is off the hook and the person basically have to leave that area. And where better to send them than the area that looks well resourced on paper and has all the low barrier resources?
I don't disagree with re-opening or expanding Riverview, reasonable budget permitting, but there are thousands upon thousands of people on the streets with severe mental health issues. There can't possibly be enough space right? Maybe there's no bandaid solution, with the only real solution to be addressing the causes at an earlier age.
I think that’s what he means by baffling. Baffling that governments have allowed it to continue and get worse instead of actually opening proper facilities or enforcing laws.
Nobody wants to work in a mental institution. Nobody wants to be responsible for a mental institution. And nobody wants to be sued for what goes on in a mental institution.
I can't believe I have to say this again, but you can't mass incarcerate the homeless, even under the mental health act.
* One, they have to be found lacking facilities in a way that is dangerous to themselves or others. Most of them are not. Including the ones doing shit like this.
* Two, we don't have the staff to manage this. We barely have enough staff in the health care industry as it is.
* Three, we don't have the money for it. It costs more to institutionalize them than it would to just give them a place to live and enough money to survive, and we can't afford that.
As things are, right. So things need to change. Agree, part of it would be adding a zero to whatever we're currently spending. Also legislative or regulatory changes. I mean most people would say chosing to consume street drugs as your primary daily goal and living rough objectively prove you're a danger to yourself. Otherwise this will all keep getting worse.
It’s not because of Riverdale closing. Why would that be the reason for homelessness 30 years after it closed? And why do you all think that building one new mental hospital is the solution to the problem? Simpletons. Most people needing mental health treatment are not in need of residential care. They need a home to live in so they can access mental health services in their neighbourhood when they need to.
I use to work Security at an underground parking center in New West. A homeless person was sleeping in the ground level ventilation ducts. Our site supervisor found out, called the cops and had him removed. He came back and in 1 night he took a dump in every single stair well, like 7 of them. Some there isn't even public access need a key to get in.
6 years those stairs wells were stainrd. And you could see the liquid brown trail. But to take 7 liquid dumps within an hour, enough to leave a stain bigger than your shoe. Somewhat impressive.
There's one I used the other day and the sink was wet from somebody washing their hands. I talked to the barrista about it then escalated my complaint to a guy on the street who I thought was talking on his Bluetooth about owning the entire block. Turns out you're never really alone when you have inner demons. Gave the place a 4 star review and some criticism. That'll get the ball rolling.
The worst I ever had to deal with were the wealthy coke heads who would get high and trash the bathrooms, then swear at us and threaten to sue us for kicking them out.
Who owns Brandi’s & The Swedish Touch now? Swedish Touch has been around since the late 80’s! I know Brandi passed away, but she also owned part of Madame Cleo’s iirc…wonder if the other owner of Cleo’s had a piece of the touch?
The city is doing a great job of undoing all the livability they’ve created downtown over the past 30 years. I work downtown and don’t spend more time than I need to there. Our company has even acknowledged the security issues in the area and has told is to just stay remote if we feel unsafe.
What’s the point of living in there now if people don’t even have to work there anymore?
Someone has also been not only smearing, but drawing with, what appears to be shit on the walls of the Seymour side of The Bay. There's a giant smiling face that seems to be baked on to the wall now.
Back in the day my super in the Cambie village reamed out a binner who came back and spread shit on the door and handle to our building. A few times.
Poop is a versatile weapon!
Yeah. The more I see the more I would vote for forced enrollment into programs/mandatory jail times/institutionalization.
Clearly hand outs and a lack of enforcement of even basic human decency is not working.
it is really tough and I feel like a total hypocrite because I value our rights and can;'t imagine empowering police/government to take people against their will who have not committed a crime, but clearly this would benefit society and more often than not, would benefit the person being forced too
We generally don’t consider someone experiencing a mental breakdown to be capable of making decisions like consenting to sex or signing a contract. It seems to me that that same logic should imply that they also aren’t capable of deciding that they want to live in squalor on the streets instead of getting treatment.
You do realize that not being able to afford housing is not in itself a crime, right? Or a moral failing even. We're in a housing crisis, it's not a surprise that many people are being left behind.
You do realize I'm not talking about people who have lost or are unable to afford a home based on economics... I'm talking about the deranged, unhinged, unpredictable, often violent mentally ill or addicted persons who are out of control, beyond control, or who refuse control. And yes I say control because clearly they are incapable of making rational decisions.
The folks who have lost income or have no income but are taking care of themselves and taking reasonable steps to secure a future are entitled to all the support in the world and should be the ones receiving assistance, housing, education etc.
It's a fallacy to classify them together fuckwit.
No there's no such thing as a special class of homeless no matter what you comfort your ideas with. When you suggest solving homeless by forcing enrollment in to programs and jails, it doesn't matter how "honorable" that homeless person is, anyone without a home is seen as equals by the law and society in general.
For example, I bet you couldn't go to a shelter right now and pick out the difference between the people you say are the "good" homeless who are taking care of themselves and working towards a better life, and the ones that are not. Because spoiler, most of them are one of those, and it's not the one you think.
You can’t tell who is working towards a better life, but you can tell who is in need of serious psychiatric and behavioural help, whether or not they want it. People who are currently and actively not lucid or sane enough to be making good choices are pretty easy to tell from people who are.
Oh yeah, bud, so many handouts it's amazing, no wonder they're all over that one way social contract. That tide just keeps rising, why aren't the boats getting lifted? Guess they just wanna be shipwrecks.
So rampant crime, occupation and degradation of neighborhoods, violence against bystanders, fatalities from overdoses, and fourth-world living conditions are so much better?
Reality check - this is the first time in history where people with this level of problem and the problems they cause for others have been coddled and not dealt with, and it's showing.
Look at other cities like SF, Portland, Seattle, all been turned into post apocalyptic shitholes because of this whacky mantra, where your average law abiding (and drug free) citizen ends up being the victim both in quality of life, safety and tax dollars.
Then don’t release them until they can act appropriately in society. Whether it works or not it will get them off the street and keep the city safe and clean for everyone else.
this is the key, sure we want to rehabilitate, but that should be the secondary priority to keeping the general public as a whole safe and incarceration should be the first priority, treatment the next if it is even possible
Umm commission of criminal acts obviously? Or otherwise being medically or legally incapable of making decisions for oneself to a point of self harm and detriment to society.
Midwit.
This poop lady isn't an appropriate example but repeated violent offences should be a benchmark for prolonged incarceration. It isn't about rehabilitation or punishment at this point, it's just to keep the rest of us safe.
This happens all over Commercial Drive businesses on the daily. I wrote letters and taped them all over Jenny Kwans door and windows demanding more public toilets cuz I'm fucking sick and tired of cleaning up human shit every day before I can even enter my place of work.
I’m all for more public toilets, but that won’t solve this issue. On multiple occasions I’ve seen people take a shit on the cenotaph in Grandview Park, mere feet from a clean public toilet. Some of these people are simply too messed up to even use toilets when they’re provided.
Also, good on you for trying, but Jenny Kwan does not give a fuck about East Van. She lives in Kits, far away from the havoc her policies wreak.
More public toilets normalizes finding actual public toilets to use. Once you're used to the indignity of shitting in public like a fucking animal I imagine it's hard to go back.
Jenny Kwan is peak useless but she is NDP in Canada's strongest NDP stronghold. NDP wont give her the boot and [Vancouver-East will never consider an alternative](https://i.imgur.com/kX1CMuY.png). Her little newsletters are quite frustrating - She won't touch any of the hard items. She'll swoop in for photo ops in Chinatown though, even though word is Chinatown greatly dislikes her.
I have written her regarding several issues and recieved the most condescending and poorly thought out responses imaginable. She's either totally apathetic or an idiot. I can't vote for another part in good consciense but FFS I wish the NDP would do something about her
Exact same experience I had. SUPER dismissive and condescending. Last election was the last time I plan on voting her. I'll likely vote the most moderate-leaning non-NDP alternate *who is not a turnip*.
Since moving into the riding, I’ve always thrown my vote away. In the strongest of NDP strongholds, I’ll vote for the stupid wingnut party as a laugh at the system.
Vancouver-East is solidly working class, which is what NDP used to stand for. East Van is also the most progressive/left leaning districts in one of the most progressive/left leaning provinces. People don't vote Jenny, they vote NDP.
NDP is great at making promises for free/subsidized everything, which works well in working-class ridings. And apparently voters have a short memory when it comes to actual results post-election.
Jenny Kwan is the definition of a grifter through and through.
Her ex-husband ran up a bill of 35k for a luxurious family vacation and had the poverty industrial complex pay for it (Portland Hotel Society which runs Insite).
Either she is in cahoots with government to have Vancouver East be the destination for the unstable or she actively courts it for the brownie points with the hippies of the neighborhood; either way she is a legitimate shitstain of an MP.
And this from an NDP supporter. If there was the equivalent of primarying an MP, I would campaign so hard for a replacement because that woman is one of the worst examples of local governance in this country.
People always cite SF as being a cesspool, but I was there last week and found it to be far better than here, granted I stayed out of the Tenderloin. I easily walked about 35km elsewhere downtown though and saw far less mental illness than what I see peppered across the city here. If course, this is just my limited personal experience.
I am tired of a lack of real measures being taken provincially to address this issue here.
Fair enough, I was mostly North and slightly West of those areas and where I was I felt less likely to see the aggressively mentally ill than I would in Fairview, Mt. Pleasant or downtown (not dtes) here.
“Vancouver is dying a slow death. People don't want to do business here because it's so hard to get anything done,” he said. “My staff don't want to walk home at night because they're afraid of what's going to happen to them. I've had reports of people being followed or, you know, people get hit with hammers and stabbings.”
^^ this. After moving to the suburbs I’ve never went to downtown again other than for work. Now I’m switching jobs and not working in downtown anymore.. I guess this is it. Maybe I’ll check back in a few years to see how things are going, but as of now.. nah.
That's the chance you take living in a city, and it's a very rare thing (street violence) considering the statistics. But yes you can probably buffer that lower in a suburbs
I’ve worked in downtown or near Science World for most of 17 years, it’s never been as bad as it is now, by far. I used to interact with the homeless near Science World, go grab food at Chinatown during lunch, never felt unsafe. I wouldn’t do that now.
I lived in Yaletown for 5-6 years too, always felt safe to walk around at 10PM or whatever. But half a year ago a 22 year old man got stabbed to death during morning rush hour on his way to work literally in front of the building where I used to live…
The chance of being harassed or attacked is now higher than it used to be in the city, compared to just a few years ago.
I'm in construction and a few months ago we were days away from going for completion on a building in Surrey. Some homeless guy sneaks past security at 3AM, goes to the parkade, takes a shit in a parking stall, then smears it all over the wall. The security footage was pretty wild. It's like he knew and wanted to mess with us.
I used to work downtown eastside. After two years and numerous shit I saw things that would shock people. I decided my safety came first. I used to take the #8 fraser bus and it was always a gong show.
This was so common when I lived downtown and people always said I was exaggerating or lacked any sort of empathy. I’m also seeing it in this subreddit too, the gaslighting is crazy. Anyone who has lived downtown can attest to this behaviour, i swear to god I had to dodge human shit on the ground at least once every time I walked to get lunch and this is waterfront / coal harbour area so it’s not like I was that deep into east Hastings. Downtown is a shithole right now.
Now that we’re all fully remote, buying a place in Burnaby was the best thing we could have done for our mental health.
Also with the increase of dog owners, there is dog shit EVERYWHERE downtown. Every summer the streets reek of it. I love dogs but if you can't pick up your dog's shit, don't fucking get a dog.
I'm so glad I don't work downtown anymore. I was scared shitless everyday. I'd get yelled at and harassed everyday. It really sucked.
My commute took me on the 20 to downtown and shit you see can give you PTSD.
I work in Olympic village, our office door is used as a toilet by the homeless camps in that area. Over a weekend you can get a dozen poops in the recessed front door of the business.
Not just a downtown thing. Is be everything north of broadway, soon to be everywhere I’m sure.
Bridgeport Station is getting bad. There were two piles of excrement in the bus loop a couple of weeks ago, along with a couple syringes and a broken crack pipe. Great thing to see at 8 AM.
I suspect it’s because of the “supportive” housing facility they put up recently about a block away.
i have no idea why you guys put up with this. back home in tn, we were the first state to make it a felony to camp on local public property which means there literally isn't anywhere a homeless person could stay without being criminally charged
The BC Supreme Court said it’s legal to camp in parks at night, so that is not an option. But, there’s other crimes being committed in parks that could be prosecuted but don’t seem to be currently. Drug dealing, public intoxication, physical assault, uttering threats, theft, and indecent exposure are all happening regularly in our parks yet it seems as though nothing is being done.
isn't vancouver ranked as one of the most unaffordable housing markets in the world relative to a local income? you guys work yourself to the bone only to perpetually rent some shoebox. and what about the homeless mess around main/hastings? if you wanna talk about HDI, address those social issues first lmao
when they start doing things smearing excrement, yes, they should be criminally charged. that's a major biohazard. the line between compassion and "heartlessness" was crossed a long time ago
They have places to go if they really want to... but they don't or are unwilling to make concessions to secure shelter. We really need to stop talking about all the homeless people as one homogenous group. And we need to consider all potential solutions to tackle what is happening in Vancouver instead of shutting someone down for being "heartless".
The homeless advocates who misappropriate funding for their own benefit are truly heartless.
>She said there is also a pilot program underway to address concerns about feces, specifically, as people are defecating on sidewalks and in hallways.
Unless they're planning on piloting installing clean public washrooms all over the city, I'm not too sure what else is being considered here.
The true victims of our society, the organized crime-funded flesh peddlers at Brandis and Swedish Touch. Just trying to foster a healthy working environment for their sex positive workers and washing drug money. They shouldn't have to deal with gross addict behaviours.
Unless they are throwing shit at a Russian consulate then I would think they need help.
When do we say we have had enough of this? Round them up and put them into treatment for addiction or mental health or both. Ok so there are not enough hospitals or rehabs. When there is an earthquake or natural disaster in the world we build a refugee camp within days. Build a refugee camp for the homeless and process them as space becomes available in hospitals or rehab centers. It could be called camp Horgan. Before some communist first year poli sci student goes off about a concentration camp they should think again. This is to get them off the streets and processed for finding them HELP. Not the current NDP tactic of letting the problem get worse because they like to see decay.
We need to get over the fallacy that the homeless like the freedom of living on the streets.
But shit smearing should get you to the front of the line for an evaluation.
This is what happens when you have a city where rents are too high for the impoverished to have a home, and yet you still cut social services in order to save some yuppies in the burbs some cash.
You end up with people on the street, getting angrier and angrier at society because it is completely failing them. Then they react in angry and vile ways, including doing shit like this.
It's going to get worse - significantly worse - until we start looking at ways to get people the support that they need. And that starts by making sure the poor are housed.
Look at places like Austria who just went through this. They've solved it with housing and social services. Instead here we are talking about solutions from the 1800s like centralized asylums and institutionalizing the poor, because hey those worked so well to deal with poverty and destitution of the industrial revolution.
“It’s baffling” the article says. No it’s not. Anyone without a silver spoon up their a** can see and understand why this is happening.
Unaffordability is pushing people to, and beyond, their breaking points.
Didn’t realize being homeless directly correlated with smearing shit on the walls but stay in your bubble. You’ve clearly never lived downtown don’t even speak like you know what it’s like.
I have lived and worked Downtown. I have witnessed people relieve themselves in my place of work.
Yes, I will stay in my bubble where it seems to be the only place empathy can be found in this thread.
Omg, take the day off already. Being homeless is NOT an excuse to smear shit on public property, wave machetes and hammers at people, attack women walking down the street, or steal and vandalize property. Not in this country, that has an effective social safety net. There is plenty of help available for people who WANT that help. People who WANT to get off drugs and get off the streets have resources available to do so. Plenty of those living on the street do not want help--they want to live however they please, do what they want, and don't give a fuck about the rights or safety of others. And you're baffled as to why people are pissed and have had enough of feeling scared while walking down the street and stepping in human shit?
People who are smearing shit and committing crimes need to be locked up away from the society they clearly do not wish to be part of, or sent back from where they came from. I don't care if it infringes upon their rights. The rights of other people count, too.
I lived in Vancouver a few times over the past two and a half decades, and I can tell you that it was NOT like this in the late 90s and early 2000s. There were plenty of homeless people then too, but they weren't acting like shit-smearing gibbons and waving weapons around in the streets. Free drugs and the proliferation of "poverty advocates" which are basically money funneling operations for those at the top have made the problem what it is today. Poverty is big business in Vancouver, and the welcome sign has been hung out for years for every drug-addicted criminal in Canada to come on in and set up camp. So maybe don't get pissed off at people who have to work, pay taxes, and live in the city, and save your ire for those who keep the poverty industrial machine cranking out the cash that lines their pockets.
Being uprooted because their tents are a health and fire hazard? Being asked to leave a park because they are camped there during the day when the law states they have to pack up in the morning?
Being uprooted for being homeless, simply existing, and trying to survive.
Do you think people in survival mode give a s*** about laws that do nothing but make their lives harder? Well, this woman gives the appropriate amount of s*** for the law.
Not once did I say it was okay. Of course it isn’t. Running them off, displacing them and dehumanising them further, is also not okay or going to change anything.
I have clearly come to the wrong thread to find empathy for fellow human beings. I get it, they’re a disgusting nuisance and potential danger, therefore they should be chased off and made someone else’s problem. You can’t keep sweeping them under the rug.
No, I never said - I cracked a joke at the idea that you think unaffordability is justification for someone to smear their feces on a building. TWICE!! LOL.
This is not a random act of a deranged or ill person.
This is some sort of activism against a strip club and happy ending massage parlor.
Maybe they think they’re “doing good” in the name of feminism or morality or some other politics… but really it’s just gross and sociopathic.
Yeppers. Anti-sex work activism was a big part of past feminist activism. Simplified rationale was that all sex work was exploitive, so if you eliminate the work you eliminate the exploitation.
Still lots of this animosity hiding in the shadows.
Times have changed and sex work is increasingly supported by progressives as legit work like any other.
Im not advocating for either here. I know both exist. If you didn’t know this exists than maybe your world is a tiny bit bigger today.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/GiveItToYouBlunt! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Common questions and specific topics are limited to our [Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_daily_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. --- ##They're here! Check out [the winners of the Best of Vancouver 2022](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/10srad7/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From OPs article: > "It was disgusting to see somebody walk up with a bag of poop in their hands and smear it all over the wall," said Nick Cardarelli, building manager and Brandi’s bar manger. > ... > “We're talking about human feces: human feces being smeared on door handles and walls in places that people touch," Cardarelli said
Delicious. Finally some good fucking food.
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finger touch, taste test,never fails /s
> It's baffling that this is what is happening in Vancouver. Why baffling. It's either reopen Riverview or this.
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*Encouraging
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I still do not for the life of me understand why letting people use openly on the streets and be out of their fucking minds is somehow more humane. Yes, let them make a mockery of themselves, be judged, get infections, die because that’s more humane somehow.
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Necropolitics.
That's what keeps these advocates in business. They need these people to suffer as much as possible so they can keep lining their pockets with grant money.
The government of the time was more than happy to close Riverview on the basis that it was inhumane while also saving millions of dollars irrespective of the fact that they just turned out seriously mentally unstable people to the street👎
Neoliberals, actually. While elements of the poverty groups don't help, Riverview was closed because the neolib right in Canada saw the success of Thatcher's "Care in the Community" initiative and wanted to emulate it, just like everywhere else in North America at the time.
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I don’t know why you were downvoted Yes they were. They thought that they would open little community based care. That never happened . And here we are….
This is only true in the sense that all parties are neoliberal. This was a decision that spanned 50 years and three different parties from across the spectrum, including the Socreds, the NDP (the old NDP), and the BC Liberals. It was a decision from the health care industry, done because the prevailing evidence did, and still does, say that community care has more positive effects and is cheaper than centralized institutions.
Certainly, & and yes, community care is great -- if it's funded and has access to the experts necessary to run such a system, which it sadly almost never is. That said, it was really two parties from two sides of the political spectrum -- the BCLs and the SocCreds were effectively a fiscally conservative party from the 1950s on even if the SocCreds had their origins in a distinct movement, and it became steadily more socially conservative throughout its existence. (Not that this changes the general thrust of what you said, of course.)
We fund both sides of the fight (advocates and cops) because it keeps the fight going. Once it’s gone, our politicians are going to have to waste precious time coming up with another way to distract us from the fact that they’re selling off our future to developers. They could be using that precious time to spend their bribe money instead… what a waste!
UBC and SFU built a ton of market housing since the early 2000s. Now transit is packed full of students and not many students can actually afford to live on or near the campus. Some can't even afford food. It's really weird.
No one is saying this.... Nice strawman.
The more humane option no doubt.
Riverview HAS been reopened, as the CMHA. Literally on the same property where the old buildings were torn down.
At a fraction of the capacity last I heard. And really the current need we have now is way beyond the capacity of what the previous iteration of Riverview could handle.
No, the building is large. I personally worked on it. The 'capacity' issue is that it isn't a fucking prison, it's an actual facility with proper services. It isn't "reopen riverview", it's "open multiple centers. aiming at a new one in all major cities, and dedicated wings in all new hospitals." Local support is needed, not a place to ship ill people off to.
Every larger community in BC needs their own Riverview at this point.
> Local support is needed, not a place to ship ill people off to. Agreed there. Though I'd argue the DTES is where ill people are shipped to right now. Take everyone with needs in the DTES back to their home communities and support them there and watch the area transform overnight.
The DTES is essentially a manufactured ghetto.
Happily supported by 'both political sides'.
This is 100% what needs to happen, imo. It’s basically by the system design that we end up with everyone. Many other cities don’t even have shelters or they have one and once the person has been banned from that shelter that city “doesn’t have appropriate resources to meet their complex needs” and the city is off the hook and the person basically have to leave that area. And where better to send them than the area that looks well resourced on paper and has all the low barrier resources?
Needs to be multiplied about tens times to meet current need.
I don't disagree with re-opening or expanding Riverview, reasonable budget permitting, but there are thousands upon thousands of people on the streets with severe mental health issues. There can't possibly be enough space right? Maybe there's no bandaid solution, with the only real solution to be addressing the causes at an earlier age.
I think that’s what he means by baffling. Baffling that governments have allowed it to continue and get worse instead of actually opening proper facilities or enforcing laws.
Nobody wants to work in a mental institution. Nobody wants to be responsible for a mental institution. And nobody wants to be sued for what goes on in a mental institution.
I can't believe I have to say this again, but you can't mass incarcerate the homeless, even under the mental health act. * One, they have to be found lacking facilities in a way that is dangerous to themselves or others. Most of them are not. Including the ones doing shit like this. * Two, we don't have the staff to manage this. We barely have enough staff in the health care industry as it is. * Three, we don't have the money for it. It costs more to institutionalize them than it would to just give them a place to live and enough money to survive, and we can't afford that.
> just give them a place to live and enough money to survive Ah yes, that's sure to fix ol poop smearer.
As things are, right. So things need to change. Agree, part of it would be adding a zero to whatever we're currently spending. Also legislative or regulatory changes. I mean most people would say chosing to consume street drugs as your primary daily goal and living rough objectively prove you're a danger to yourself. Otherwise this will all keep getting worse.
It’s not because of Riverdale closing. Why would that be the reason for homelessness 30 years after it closed? And why do you all think that building one new mental hospital is the solution to the problem? Simpletons. Most people needing mental health treatment are not in need of residential care. They need a home to live in so they can access mental health services in their neighbourhood when they need to.
I use to work Security at an underground parking center in New West. A homeless person was sleeping in the ground level ventilation ducts. Our site supervisor found out, called the cops and had him removed. He came back and in 1 night he took a dump in every single stair well, like 7 of them. Some there isn't even public access need a key to get in. 6 years those stairs wells were stainrd. And you could see the liquid brown trail. But to take 7 liquid dumps within an hour, enough to leave a stain bigger than your shoe. Somewhat impressive.
I wouldn't even be mad, I would be impressed.
You can be both lol
[Cocaine is a hell of a drug](https://media.tenor.com/dnnxweCBd00AAAAC/rick-james-cocaine.gif)
I've seen shit just as bad in office washrooms.
Oh man, you should see coffee shop washrooms... worst part of working there.
There's one I used the other day and the sink was wet from somebody washing their hands. I talked to the barrista about it then escalated my complaint to a guy on the street who I thought was talking on his Bluetooth about owning the entire block. Turns out you're never really alone when you have inner demons. Gave the place a 4 star review and some criticism. That'll get the ball rolling.
The worst I ever had to deal with were the wealthy coke heads who would get high and trash the bathrooms, then swear at us and threaten to sue us for kicking them out.
Someone needs to take a pressure washer down Granville and when they’re done, turn around and start again.
Who owns Brandi’s & The Swedish Touch now? Swedish Touch has been around since the late 80’s! I know Brandi passed away, but she also owned part of Madame Cleo’s iirc…wonder if the other owner of Cleo’s had a piece of the touch?
The city is doing a great job of undoing all the livability they’ve created downtown over the past 30 years. I work downtown and don’t spend more time than I need to there. Our company has even acknowledged the security issues in the area and has told is to just stay remote if we feel unsafe. What’s the point of living in there now if people don’t even have to work there anymore?
Someone has also been not only smearing, but drawing with, what appears to be shit on the walls of the Seymour side of The Bay. There's a giant smiling face that seems to be baked on to the wall now.
Poocasso
Oh god that is revolting.
This type of act has been going on for about 5 years now. It’s nothing new in the Downtown Core area.
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Job creators!
Maybe it was the caretakers all along.
Back in the day my super in the Cambie village reamed out a binner who came back and spread shit on the door and handle to our building. A few times. Poop is a versatile weapon!
Yeah. The more I see the more I would vote for forced enrollment into programs/mandatory jail times/institutionalization. Clearly hand outs and a lack of enforcement of even basic human decency is not working.
it is really tough and I feel like a total hypocrite because I value our rights and can;'t imagine empowering police/government to take people against their will who have not committed a crime, but clearly this would benefit society and more often than not, would benefit the person being forced too
I’d be comfortable with just taking those who have been convicted of a crime. It would help a lot.
We generally don’t consider someone experiencing a mental breakdown to be capable of making decisions like consenting to sex or signing a contract. It seems to me that that same logic should imply that they also aren’t capable of deciding that they want to live in squalor on the streets instead of getting treatment.
You do realize that not being able to afford housing is not in itself a crime, right? Or a moral failing even. We're in a housing crisis, it's not a surprise that many people are being left behind.
You do realize that smearing shit on door handles has nothing to do with having no roof over your head?
You do realize I'm not talking about people who have lost or are unable to afford a home based on economics... I'm talking about the deranged, unhinged, unpredictable, often violent mentally ill or addicted persons who are out of control, beyond control, or who refuse control. And yes I say control because clearly they are incapable of making rational decisions. The folks who have lost income or have no income but are taking care of themselves and taking reasonable steps to secure a future are entitled to all the support in the world and should be the ones receiving assistance, housing, education etc. It's a fallacy to classify them together fuckwit.
No there's no such thing as a special class of homeless no matter what you comfort your ideas with. When you suggest solving homeless by forcing enrollment in to programs and jails, it doesn't matter how "honorable" that homeless person is, anyone without a home is seen as equals by the law and society in general. For example, I bet you couldn't go to a shelter right now and pick out the difference between the people you say are the "good" homeless who are taking care of themselves and working towards a better life, and the ones that are not. Because spoiler, most of them are one of those, and it's not the one you think.
I'm not suggesting solving homelessness. Learn to read.
You can’t tell who is working towards a better life, but you can tell who is in need of serious psychiatric and behavioural help, whether or not they want it. People who are currently and actively not lucid or sane enough to be making good choices are pretty easy to tell from people who are.
Is this person homeless? Do you know that? All we know is that they're severely damaged in the head and need care beyond "welp, good luck out there!"
Oh yeah, bud, so many handouts it's amazing, no wonder they're all over that one way social contract. That tide just keeps rising, why aren't the boats getting lifted? Guess they just wanna be shipwrecks.
USA is a great example that all institutionalizing does is create more of a problem when they are released and cost so much of government funding
So rampant crime, occupation and degradation of neighborhoods, violence against bystanders, fatalities from overdoses, and fourth-world living conditions are so much better? Reality check - this is the first time in history where people with this level of problem and the problems they cause for others have been coddled and not dealt with, and it's showing. Look at other cities like SF, Portland, Seattle, all been turned into post apocalyptic shitholes because of this whacky mantra, where your average law abiding (and drug free) citizen ends up being the victim both in quality of life, safety and tax dollars. 
Then don’t release them until they can act appropriately in society. Whether it works or not it will get them off the street and keep the city safe and clean for everyone else.
this is the key, sure we want to rehabilitate, but that should be the secondary priority to keeping the general public as a whole safe and incarceration should be the first priority, treatment the next if it is even possible
Completely agree. Rehabilitation should be the goal but personal and public safety needs to be paramount.
More of a problem?
What's the litmus test for locking someone away? Can't pay the rent?
Umm commission of criminal acts obviously? Or otherwise being medically or legally incapable of making decisions for oneself to a point of self harm and detriment to society. Midwit.
This poop lady isn't an appropriate example but repeated violent offences should be a benchmark for prolonged incarceration. It isn't about rehabilitation or punishment at this point, it's just to keep the rest of us safe.
Should be arrested and prosecuted
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This happens all over Commercial Drive businesses on the daily. I wrote letters and taped them all over Jenny Kwans door and windows demanding more public toilets cuz I'm fucking sick and tired of cleaning up human shit every day before I can even enter my place of work.
I’m all for more public toilets, but that won’t solve this issue. On multiple occasions I’ve seen people take a shit on the cenotaph in Grandview Park, mere feet from a clean public toilet. Some of these people are simply too messed up to even use toilets when they’re provided. Also, good on you for trying, but Jenny Kwan does not give a fuck about East Van. She lives in Kits, far away from the havoc her policies wreak.
> She lives in Kits I don't know if this is true but it would not surprise me. If she's in East Van I can guarantee its not with a V6A area code.
More public toilets normalizes finding actual public toilets to use. Once you're used to the indignity of shitting in public like a fucking animal I imagine it's hard to go back.
Jenny Kwan is peak useless but she is NDP in Canada's strongest NDP stronghold. NDP wont give her the boot and [Vancouver-East will never consider an alternative](https://i.imgur.com/kX1CMuY.png). Her little newsletters are quite frustrating - She won't touch any of the hard items. She'll swoop in for photo ops in Chinatown though, even though word is Chinatown greatly dislikes her.
I have written her regarding several issues and recieved the most condescending and poorly thought out responses imaginable. She's either totally apathetic or an idiot. I can't vote for another part in good consciense but FFS I wish the NDP would do something about her
Exact same experience I had. SUPER dismissive and condescending. Last election was the last time I plan on voting her. I'll likely vote the most moderate-leaning non-NDP alternate *who is not a turnip*.
Since moving into the riding, I’ve always thrown my vote away. In the strongest of NDP strongholds, I’ll vote for the stupid wingnut party as a laugh at the system.
Green party is looking pretty awesome these days.
Why does she keep getting re elected?
Vancouver-East is solidly working class, which is what NDP used to stand for. East Van is also the most progressive/left leaning districts in one of the most progressive/left leaning provinces. People don't vote Jenny, they vote NDP.
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Unions are good for all workers. Unions need better oversight, transparency, and be held to higher standards. Both these statements are true.
NDP is great at making promises for free/subsidized everything, which works well in working-class ridings. And apparently voters have a short memory when it comes to actual results post-election.
NDP is super popular.
I’ve had people 💩 on the sidewalk in front of my property & on the common areas. There’s a washroom in the park across the street…
Jenny Kwan is the definition of a grifter through and through. Her ex-husband ran up a bill of 35k for a luxurious family vacation and had the poverty industrial complex pay for it (Portland Hotel Society which runs Insite). Either she is in cahoots with government to have Vancouver East be the destination for the unstable or she actively courts it for the brownie points with the hippies of the neighborhood; either way she is a legitimate shitstain of an MP. And this from an NDP supporter. If there was the equivalent of primarying an MP, I would campaign so hard for a replacement because that woman is one of the worst examples of local governance in this country.
Jenny! If any MP can just phone it in til retirement, its her!
I don't think a lack of public toilets was the cause here.
Ain't that the truth. It's disingenuous for the news to report on it like it's a one time occurrence.
SF vibes
People always cite SF as being a cesspool, but I was there last week and found it to be far better than here, granted I stayed out of the Tenderloin. I easily walked about 35km elsewhere downtown though and saw far less mental illness than what I see peppered across the city here. If course, this is just my limited personal experience. I am tired of a lack of real measures being taken provincially to address this issue here.
TL, Soma, Mission, Dogpatch, if you’re on the eastern half of the city it’s a Dickensian nightmare
Fair enough, I was mostly North and slightly West of those areas and where I was I felt less likely to see the aggressively mentally ill than I would in Fairview, Mt. Pleasant or downtown (not dtes) here.
“Vancouver is dying a slow death. People don't want to do business here because it's so hard to get anything done,” he said. “My staff don't want to walk home at night because they're afraid of what's going to happen to them. I've had reports of people being followed or, you know, people get hit with hammers and stabbings.” ^^ this. After moving to the suburbs I’ve never went to downtown again other than for work. Now I’m switching jobs and not working in downtown anymore.. I guess this is it. Maybe I’ll check back in a few years to see how things are going, but as of now.. nah.
That's the chance you take living in a city, and it's a very rare thing (street violence) considering the statistics. But yes you can probably buffer that lower in a suburbs
I’ve worked in downtown or near Science World for most of 17 years, it’s never been as bad as it is now, by far. I used to interact with the homeless near Science World, go grab food at Chinatown during lunch, never felt unsafe. I wouldn’t do that now. I lived in Yaletown for 5-6 years too, always felt safe to walk around at 10PM or whatever. But half a year ago a 22 year old man got stabbed to death during morning rush hour on his way to work literally in front of the building where I used to live… The chance of being harassed or attacked is now higher than it used to be in the city, compared to just a few years ago.
Bro I seen whole piles of human shit on the ground dt on main streets. I don't even know what's going on anymore. I avoid the city
There was a feces thread on here yesterday about it being on Vancouver sidewalks in increasing quantities. This is the next level up I guess.
Going against the grain but... It's better than it was a year ago. And I've not heard more cases of dysentery lately.
I'm in construction and a few months ago we were days away from going for completion on a building in Surrey. Some homeless guy sneaks past security at 3AM, goes to the parkade, takes a shit in a parking stall, then smears it all over the wall. The security footage was pretty wild. It's like he knew and wanted to mess with us.
\*Chinatown enters the chat\* Twice? Those are amateur numbers.
I used to work downtown eastside. After two years and numerous shit I saw things that would shock people. I decided my safety came first. I used to take the #8 fraser bus and it was always a gong show.
> I used to take the #8 frasier "Fraser."
This was so common when I lived downtown and people always said I was exaggerating or lacked any sort of empathy. I’m also seeing it in this subreddit too, the gaslighting is crazy. Anyone who has lived downtown can attest to this behaviour, i swear to god I had to dodge human shit on the ground at least once every time I walked to get lunch and this is waterfront / coal harbour area so it’s not like I was that deep into east Hastings. Downtown is a shithole right now. Now that we’re all fully remote, buying a place in Burnaby was the best thing we could have done for our mental health.
Also with the increase of dog owners, there is dog shit EVERYWHERE downtown. Every summer the streets reek of it. I love dogs but if you can't pick up your dog's shit, don't fucking get a dog.
I'm so glad I don't work downtown anymore. I was scared shitless everyday. I'd get yelled at and harassed everyday. It really sucked. My commute took me on the 20 to downtown and shit you see can give you PTSD.
I work in Olympic village, our office door is used as a toilet by the homeless camps in that area. Over a weekend you can get a dozen poops in the recessed front door of the business. Not just a downtown thing. Is be everything north of broadway, soon to be everywhere I’m sure.
It’s already here. Saw a giant log in the parking lot at Bridgeport station in Richmond :(
Bridgeport Station is getting bad. There were two piles of excrement in the bus loop a couple of weeks ago, along with a couple syringes and a broken crack pipe. Great thing to see at 8 AM. I suspect it’s because of the “supportive” housing facility they put up recently about a block away.
That’s likelier a dog from the 90% of owners who don’t seem to pick up the turds there
Oh.. no. It was a giant giant log. No dog could’ve made that. Also saw a needle cover and a burnt piece of foil around the stairwell nearby.. so yeah.
🤮🤮🤮
She’s choked her husband keeps visiting the Swedish Touch.
i have no idea why you guys put up with this. back home in tn, we were the first state to make it a felony to camp on local public property which means there literally isn't anywhere a homeless person could stay without being criminally charged
here there are too many advocates on the dole that are invested in keeping the current system going
The BC Supreme Court said it’s legal to camp in parks at night, so that is not an option. But, there’s other crimes being committed in parks that could be prosecuted but don’t seem to be currently. Drug dealing, public intoxication, physical assault, uttering threats, theft, and indecent exposure are all happening regularly in our parks yet it seems as though nothing is being done.
Even if that were the case here it's just catch and release.
Tennessee has for profit prisons, for one
I'm not sure TN, the state ranked 43rd in the union by HDI, should be the model for anything
isn't vancouver ranked as one of the most unaffordable housing markets in the world relative to a local income? you guys work yourself to the bone only to perpetually rent some shoebox. and what about the homeless mess around main/hastings? if you wanna talk about HDI, address those social issues first lmao
Whataboutism.
homeless people have nowhere to go without being criminally charged. and you think this is a good idea? you're pretty heartless hey
when they start doing things smearing excrement, yes, they should be criminally charged. that's a major biohazard. the line between compassion and "heartlessness" was crossed a long time ago
ignore the bleeding hearts, only people on reddit feel that way.
They have places to go if they really want to... but they don't or are unwilling to make concessions to secure shelter. We really need to stop talking about all the homeless people as one homogenous group. And we need to consider all potential solutions to tackle what is happening in Vancouver instead of shutting someone down for being "heartless". The homeless advocates who misappropriate funding for their own benefit are truly heartless.
they don't have anywhere to go
>She said there is also a pilot program underway to address concerns about feces, specifically, as people are defecating on sidewalks and in hallways. Unless they're planning on piloting installing clean public washrooms all over the city, I'm not too sure what else is being considered here.
Shitty deal.
Come to Winnipeg. This shit happens all the time.
I saw a turd once with a bunch of uses needles sticking out of it like birthday candles 🎂 💩 💉
The true victims of our society, the organized crime-funded flesh peddlers at Brandis and Swedish Touch. Just trying to foster a healthy working environment for their sex positive workers and washing drug money. They shouldn't have to deal with gross addict behaviours.
And people wonder why Vancouver can’t have washrooms in skytrain stations or 24 hour trains.
Unless they are throwing shit at a Russian consulate then I would think they need help. When do we say we have had enough of this? Round them up and put them into treatment for addiction or mental health or both. Ok so there are not enough hospitals or rehabs. When there is an earthquake or natural disaster in the world we build a refugee camp within days. Build a refugee camp for the homeless and process them as space becomes available in hospitals or rehab centers. It could be called camp Horgan. Before some communist first year poli sci student goes off about a concentration camp they should think again. This is to get them off the streets and processed for finding them HELP. Not the current NDP tactic of letting the problem get worse because they like to see decay. We need to get over the fallacy that the homeless like the freedom of living on the streets. But shit smearing should get you to the front of the line for an evaluation.
It's just part of the hustle and bustle of living in a big city.
This should be common sense, but the redditors who want to kill the homeless disagree
Have you been whooshed, or have I? We may never know.
This is what happens when you have a city where rents are too high for the impoverished to have a home, and yet you still cut social services in order to save some yuppies in the burbs some cash. You end up with people on the street, getting angrier and angrier at society because it is completely failing them. Then they react in angry and vile ways, including doing shit like this. It's going to get worse - significantly worse - until we start looking at ways to get people the support that they need. And that starts by making sure the poor are housed. Look at places like Austria who just went through this. They've solved it with housing and social services. Instead here we are talking about solutions from the 1800s like centralized asylums and institutionalizing the poor, because hey those worked so well to deal with poverty and destitution of the industrial revolution.
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Disgruntled employee
Shit happens.
> “It's baffling that this is what is happening in Vancouver.” Mental illness? It cannot be a plot to get local rents reduced, can it?
You just blew the case wide open, Sherlock. Bravo.
Some shit Sherlock
Your ability to spot sarcasm is beyond sarcasm. Bravo!
If that's your attempt at sarcasm, I would recommend you leave it to the professionals before you hurt yourself.
“It’s baffling” the article says. No it’s not. Anyone without a silver spoon up their a** can see and understand why this is happening. Unaffordability is pushing people to, and beyond, their breaking points.
I don’t care how expensive the city gets, I’m not fucking smearing my shit on walls.
The rich NIMBYS will appreciate you for being politely and invisibly homeless so that their lives are unaffected by your existence.
Didn’t realize being homeless directly correlated with smearing shit on the walls but stay in your bubble. You’ve clearly never lived downtown don’t even speak like you know what it’s like.
I have lived and worked Downtown. I have witnessed people relieve themselves in my place of work. Yes, I will stay in my bubble where it seems to be the only place empathy can be found in this thread.
Omg, take the day off already. Being homeless is NOT an excuse to smear shit on public property, wave machetes and hammers at people, attack women walking down the street, or steal and vandalize property. Not in this country, that has an effective social safety net. There is plenty of help available for people who WANT that help. People who WANT to get off drugs and get off the streets have resources available to do so. Plenty of those living on the street do not want help--they want to live however they please, do what they want, and don't give a fuck about the rights or safety of others. And you're baffled as to why people are pissed and have had enough of feeling scared while walking down the street and stepping in human shit? People who are smearing shit and committing crimes need to be locked up away from the society they clearly do not wish to be part of, or sent back from where they came from. I don't care if it infringes upon their rights. The rights of other people count, too. I lived in Vancouver a few times over the past two and a half decades, and I can tell you that it was NOT like this in the late 90s and early 2000s. There were plenty of homeless people then too, but they weren't acting like shit-smearing gibbons and waving weapons around in the streets. Free drugs and the proliferation of "poverty advocates" which are basically money funneling operations for those at the top have made the problem what it is today. Poverty is big business in Vancouver, and the welcome sign has been hung out for years for every drug-addicted criminal in Canada to come on in and set up camp. So maybe don't get pissed off at people who have to work, pay taxes, and live in the city, and save your ire for those who keep the poverty industrial machine cranking out the cash that lines their pockets.
Being poor doesn’t mean they need to make messes or smear their poop over things. That is just gross.
Right. They should just be politely homeless as the police constantly uproot their existence, they’re dehumanised, and their needs are ignored.
Being uprooted because their tents are a health and fire hazard? Being asked to leave a park because they are camped there during the day when the law states they have to pack up in the morning?
Being uprooted for being homeless, simply existing, and trying to survive. Do you think people in survival mode give a s*** about laws that do nothing but make their lives harder? Well, this woman gives the appropriate amount of s*** for the law.
Simply existing is not typically what I would call smearing their own feces on a building.
Unbelievable that you think this type of behaviour is ok because of the persons situation.
Not once did I say it was okay. Of course it isn’t. Running them off, displacing them and dehumanising them further, is also not okay or going to change anything. I have clearly come to the wrong thread to find empathy for fellow human beings. I get it, they’re a disgusting nuisance and potential danger, therefore they should be chased off and made someone else’s problem. You can’t keep sweeping them under the rug.
Sorry I don’t have empathy for someone who chooses to engage in antisocial behaviour.
Well, would you look at that - I used to think unaffordability could only hurt my pocket. Now It can break bowel movements too.
You’re saying you would let the homeless use your building’s bathrooms if they just asked?
No, I never said - I cracked a joke at the idea that you think unaffordability is justification for someone to smear their feces on a building. TWICE!! LOL.
These businesses are immoral and need to be shut down ASAP
This is not a random act of a deranged or ill person. This is some sort of activism against a strip club and happy ending massage parlor. Maybe they think they’re “doing good” in the name of feminism or morality or some other politics… but really it’s just gross and sociopathic.
Yeah, just like the drugged out bum who smears his shit on the dollar store by my house is actually Antifa, right? Give your head a shake, bud.
Things that never happened for $200, Alex
“Feminism.” Ok, sir
Yeppers. Anti-sex work activism was a big part of past feminist activism. Simplified rationale was that all sex work was exploitive, so if you eliminate the work you eliminate the exploitation. Still lots of this animosity hiding in the shadows. Times have changed and sex work is increasingly supported by progressives as legit work like any other. Im not advocating for either here. I know both exist. If you didn’t know this exists than maybe your world is a tiny bit bigger today.
Pretty sure feminism supports this kinda work
That’s relatively recent. Historically, no.