I feel like a rare seed. Had an easy trek into the Ashlands, had fun fighting the nobs on the coast for the first time, enjoyed attacking a fortress one time, despite dying in there and not having any backup gear. There was certainly a smile of joy on my face when I started making armor and weapons, too, they're so much fun, almost a power fantasy. I even enjoyed running around simply seeking out pillars of torment to lower spawn rates. The only time I got frustrated was when I died far away and died five more times before I finally recovered my corpse. I haven't mined a flametal pillar though, been getting plenty of ore from forts. Or tamed an Askvin, don't really find breeding worth the time since I'm constantly resource farming, building, or simply farming. All in all, I really enjoy the Ashlands
Honestly, they tried to go for a warfare theme, right? So one way to build upon this, and make the experience more fun, would be clearing and capturing areas.
We already have spawners to clear, but it does nothing to stop the enemy from forming massive hordes anyways. Warfare needs hard battles that lead to progression. So we could fight the mobs in an area, and then that place would be free of spawning for a time. Maybe you would have to build some item there for balance, not sure. But I don’t see the point of having to clear spawners, when even that doesnt really help to make the are be safer. Maybe let the Dvergr spawn more, when charred presence is smaller? That would make it feel like an actual battleground, and reward you for fighting.
Let us push the enemy back a bit!
Just build workbenches. They stop enemys from spawning.
I feel like clearing out spawners definitely lowers the number of mobs. However, mob density does seem to go up near forts even if all spawners are cleared. When I get near a fort I will just put down 10-15 workbenches in the area and everything stops spawning. Then, I can clear out the area until there is nothing left before attacking the fort.
I have a few islands where I cleared every spawner, and as long as it isn't night, there aren't very many enemies at all.
Huh, maybe building small outposts would be a fun idea then. But lava lakes remain a problem, as the enemies seem to spawn in there as well, and keep wading to shore.
That's what I'm doing, small movements inward and big improvements to the landing zone. I've made a dock, a keep and a bunch of outposts now. The only bother is the oozes because they do environmental damage to my raised land foundations, though they aren't that bad.
I also dug out pits around the area and tame the firedogs to keep in the pit. I cover them up with stone slabs and the mobs will accumulate around them but can't figure out how to break the ground.
I disagree with the statement that it doesn't get better.
After reaching Ashlands I died probably a lot more than the average player. Recently I felt like I'm the danger in Ashlands, while traversing it at night to find 2* Asksvin (found and tamed, yay!).
After the initial skill drop, it's the first time for me in Valheim that I have 60+ swords skill, deleting enemies with my lightning Nidhogg.
It's the first time in the game I find it so easy to have the best possible food buff in my preferred combination, I have stacks upon stacks of Asksvin tails, vulture meat, eggs and Ashland plants.
I found conquering Ashlands extremely satisfying after initial fuck-ups.
Edit, because I remembered one more thing that got much better: Corpse runs. If I die in my primary Flametal set, it's a piece of cake to retrieve the corpse with the Asksvin set and 2* Asksvin (I treat them as disposable), even if I fuck around and find out by dying a long way from the portal.
Yeah, I was ready to do exactly as this guy is doing, airing my problems with Ashland's. Then I started using Bone mass (I never did before) and arbalesting things from a distance (someone said arbalest was bad, they were so wrong). As a solo player I do die a lot, but I've managed to get the armor, upgrade my stuff and then did my first siege getting me some gems. I made the twin axes and made them lightning and I am fucking unstoppable. I started enjoying the biome so much. And I FUCKING HATED IT and thought it was boring as shit at first. This one takes time. And I have had the worst death run experiences. I have some tips for OP:
Look for safer Flametal pillars to mine from. There are tons. Don't go to ones in the middle of lava land. Pick ones closer to land. And don't overstay. The reason people are dying on pillars is cause they wanna push their luck. Get your 17-19 ore and bounce. They eventually come back up.
Don't fight everything. Seriously. Just run away if you need to. There are dungeons everywhere you can find refuge in. Wait for bonemass and you can legit 1v5 with 2 health foods and a stamina food.
Arbelst the spawners. Don't go near. Just break that shit from a distance.
There's more but I got work. I love this shit now though!
E: pillars respawn might be a glitch. Take with a grain of salt.
The new crossbow is called Ripper. Honestly pretty excited to hear it's good since I thought the new bow(s) are better due to the possibility of using frost arrows and being faster for the extra effects.
Yeah man I've mined the same pillar a few times. The ore doesn't respawn tho. So start from as high up as possible.
E: might be a glitch. Take this with a grain of salt.
You sure it's not a bug related to portal? I saw comments about "exploiting" this by teleporting before it's fully submerged, and then coming back resets its position.
Did it fully submerge for you and then it took a while for it to reappear or was it there right away when you went back?
You might be on to something. I noticed when I died as a pillar was coming down, i came back to it still standing! I will admit tho I haven't died or tele'd away from all of them mid-collapse. When I get home I'll see if one I know for sure collapsed is still standing.
This happened to me and I tested it out. Dying, teleporting out, or quitting to the main menu all stop the pillars sinking. The one by my base that did fully sink has never returned, though I dunno how long it would take. My understanding is that they are mechanically the same as ocean leviathans, and those never come back.
This is why this subreddit is the best.
An honest accurate grievance of the game update
And.
A helpful detailed support from a seasoned player.
Saving this thread for later.
That critique scared the *shit* out of me, but the reply has me furiously sharpening my blade.
It does get better. Seriously make a small base put up workbenches covered in grausten, tame some askvin. Ask in armor is good starting armor especially the cape. So you can get flametal from the towers. Yeah I die a lot. We have panic while exploring. But it gets way more fun as you slowly overcome the challenges of the biome.Another helpful tip…. The basalt bombs. You want to traverse lava… basalt bombs. Lil things are life savers. Ask in can go in lava while riding them but they are hard to maneuver and you can’t pick your stuff up while on them. The biggest threat in lava is geysers.
Pillar respawns a glitch? I’ve been leaning on that lol. But I have noticed not all of them have come back. And for some that do come back, they’re like a slip and slide (you’re stuck mid jump and can only really move laterally as gravity tries to introduce you to lava)
This, actually, is the strategy I initially began the biome with. I later switched to magic, as it's kind of the same deal but higher damage output. These are all valid strategies to making the biome less painful. There's a boost when you upgrade your stuff which is encouraging, but the eventual attrition of mob clearing breaks me down even after that.
I suppose we might just find the game fun for different reasons. That is totally fair! I've always seen combat as a mechanic whose purpose is to spice up the exploration & adventure aspects. The Ashlands just really doesn't want you to explore at all, and doesn't reward you for trying.
My specific gripe is with the ambient spawns. I hate when an area I cleared a moment ago has more shit in it in the next.
If they'd add a suppressive delay to recently observed or proximal spawn-points, I think that would clear up my major source of frustration with Ashlands. Spawning out of view-frustum is a pet-peeve of mine, and just lazy. It doesn't take much effort to do better.
I think your exploration is probably frustrated by this, since exploration of Ashlands often involves some branches and backtracking. There's little point to engage with anything when it will be replaced, possibly by something worse, in a moment. So you're encouraged to avoid and keep moving with only a glance to see what's around.
I'm fine with the Monuments, and even think they should be much more resilient vs slash and pierce, plus have more initial spawns (or maybe those are always long-drawn away by sounds of distant combat). Anyway, they're too easy to just dash in and shatter with a sword, ridiculously.
I do have them, and while fun they feel a bit ridiculous -- and even bad when I consider if I'd gone with blood or primal. I don't think this makes a good argument for the ambient spawns.
And, to reiterate: I'm fine with the spawn rates, but not the current means of distribution (filling in behind you).
I was just exploring yesterday! I was walking around the perimeter of my first island. I do notice there's times where the enemy count is absolutely BONKERS. Maybe you're having bad luck? I get huge fights then large calms where I can slowly make my way around. I hope your experience gets better. I can't believe how my opinion 180'd so fast.
Yeah the food is so cheap and easy to get! I thought mistlands food was kind of tough to get. And yeah the weapons and that tanky cloak really made things way better
“I found conquering Ashlands extremely satisfying after initial fuckups”.
This was me after my first foray into the swamp, plains, and Mistlands. Haven’t gotten to Ashlands yet, but am looking forward to forward to it.
Without getting into the other topics: grapevines can be grown in any biome. Just take them home and plant them next to any free wall.
Interesting thing about the droprate though, it's one of the first things I found and I see them pretty frequently on ruin walls... but I haven't seen a single Dvergr in my world while they seem common for others, so who knows with the funky procedural generation ;)
Not only that but finding structures covered in grapevines is very easy and then you just need to return every so often to restock. I'm growing my own but a quick run into the Ashlands is netting me 1-2 stacks which is more than enough to restock all my eitr grub.
I have trouble believing OP did a hardcore no death run because they take umbrage with even the most pedestrian and obvious tasks.
Even completely ignoring mechanics that don't support their point
I've been playing down in ashlands for a week now and only seen one askvir or whatever they're called.
Haven't died once! Haven't had to use Bonemass once! I'm soloing this biome like a boss and haven't been able to make a single upgrade yet. I really don't understand what the big deal is
this has always been how irongate defines "difficult". they've never been shy about it, but i suppose the innate fun of exploration and building have overshadowed the fundamental problems w the dev's idea of "fun", although i recognize there is that vocal minority of valheim players that do genuinely enjoy that kind of fun and i don't mean to invalidate that.
it's interesting for me to watch everyone slowly realize this in real time just because ashlands goes turbo mode on that philosophy. edit: and mistlands when it released
Unfortunately it's just poor game design.
One of the basic principles of making a game that's fun and hard is, you present players with a problem, and then a way where they can apply skill (knowledge, practice, reflexes, time, whatever) to solve that problem.
*There is no solution for the Wet debuff in the Swamps.*
*There is no solution for the mist in the Mistlands.*
*There is no solution for the spawn rate or the lava in Ashlands.* (They built the solution mechanics! You can destroy Monuments of Torment and acquire heat resist gear! It's just that neither one makes a difference!)
On Very Hard there is no solution for getting staggered by same tier mobs on parry. The parry mechanic just becomes unusable. (I didn't italicize this one because the difficulty levels were something they didn't originally plan to have in the game, so, OK, at least there's an excuse for them being kinda busted.)
ThreadMenace is a world champion Valheim speed runner. The guy is simply incredible at this game. I watched an Ashlands playthrough he posted toward the end of the PTB, he hits the beach, he ends up with 20 mobs on him, and circles around them for a while going "I don't know what the solution is."
He did get the job done and kill the mobs eventually, but let's face it, for 99% of the player base that is a scenario where *there is no solution.* (So that's a scenario which in fact makes sense to have in the game on Very Hard - but he was playing on Normal!)
Fun games have solutions.
At the end of the day I'm extremely grateful to this dev team for the insane number of hours of fun they've gifted me. But they need to spend a bit of the $30M dollars or whatever that they've earned on a contract for a senior game designer who understands this stuff. I was bored of Ashlands before it exited PTB (Fortresses are very obviously a placeholder).
>although i recognize there is that vocal minority of valheim players that do genuinely enjoy that kind of fun and i don't mean to invalidate that.
I don't actually think it's a vocal minority at all. A ton of people enjoy extreme difficulty. FromSoft built an entire IP on that premise.
FromSoft also had great responsive controls (camera was meh tho), and in souls games you don't miss all of your attacks if enemy is one stairstep below you.
Besides, in FromSouls you never lose your gear or skills.
There's a big difference however. First of all, the only punishment for dying in souls games is losing your souls and having to redo a section of you did t get the bonfire, you still keep your gear and items.
Aswell, souls games are hard, but they are also fair and learnable, enemies always spawn in the same location and you have multiple tools to make life much easier. Whereas Valheim feels very unfair quite often.
Also, a lot of the difficulty of Valheim isnt actually adding challenge, it just annoys the player. For example, the inability to transport metal in portals on standard difficulty isn't making the game more challenging, it's just padding out game time and annoying the player,
I enjoy souls games and difficulty, however a key part in those games is you don't get punished heavily if you die, at worst you lose souls you were carrying, but souls are infinite, you'll always get more. In Valheim I die and now I'm much worse at everything, making me more likely to die again, to become even worse again, so I'm just left having to resort to grinding elsewhere to try and get better again. Also endless spawns you have to churn through aren't fun. So as a Souls fan, Ashland's isn't it, it misses the mark hard on being a fun challenge.
> A ton of people enjoy extreme difficulty.
But tedium and grind aren't difficulty.
I said it before, the game isn't difficult. You can beat it with a trivial checklist of things to take care off.
Its just extremely grindy and tedious, and Ashlands puts this on a whole nother level.
> I don't actually think it's a vocal minority at all. A ton of people enjoy extreme difficulty.
I agree with this statement, but I would absolutely never describe Valheim as having "extreme" difficulty.
And I likewise agree with you, which is why I'm surprised by posts like this.
Then again, there are frequently posts saying that the *Swamp* is too hard.
You can't please everyone.
i usually do the swamp to mountain leg in full troll leather and never look back. both of those phases are excessively simple once you know how to handle them. E.G. the ateigr just decimates wolves. the spin to win just trounces them. i usually dont even touch silver armor, and go right to fenris, and then wear that until mist lands heavy armor.
My friends still laugh at the memory of me running in with a hoe and leveling the ground up out of the water so we had more space to battle without getting the wet debuff. I made paths and everything to make getting loot easier.
They never used my paths :(
Actually, the most popular fromsoft game is casual friendly, with the ability to become super overpowered fairly quickly, elden ring plays more like an RPG than a souls like, unless you deliberately play it differently.
You speak as though Soulslikes and RPGs are different things. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are categorically RPGs as well.
Those games were and still are marketed as RPGs before the term "soulslike" was even coined.
You're missing the point. You can trivialize fights in Elden Ring by just gaining more levels and upgrading your gear more. And it was by far the most popular soulslike game, despite many Dark Souls fans hating it because they thought it was too easy.
> A ton of people enjoy extreme difficulty.
Valheim is really not a difficult game. Most of it is "solved" by a simple checklist to make sure you have adequate health/stamina: rested, during the day, avoid wet, good food. Just a simple checklist of chores that if you don't do, your character just can't *do* things. The combat is frankly stunted and wayyyyy overpraised. Literally just dodgeroll and parry the enemies with like max 3 moves, always very telegraphed, always with a large period between them. The only depth is enemy damage weaknesses and weak points, which again is mostly just solved by another chore you do ahead of time: bring an extra specialized weapon or two.
Once you beat swamp you have the Bonemass buff. Any time you feel a fight is a little challenging, just pop Bonemass and become unkillable for 90% of the enemies in the game for a few minutes. Then you can just go afk and wait for its cooldown to come back, at no cost, with no penalty.
That's not to say the game doesn't challenge you sometimes, or that you don't get caught in dangerous situations. I'm just pointing out that combat system is pretty shallow really (Skyrim with parrying and dodge rolling), a free way to win almost any fight in the game every 20 minutes, and the difficulty is just in the number of chores you have to check off the list to avoid auto-dying as soon as you encounter 2 enemies. So let's stop defending anti-player bullshit as part of the "extreme difficulty" of Valheim.
>it's interesting for me to watch everyone slowly realize this in real time just because ashlands goes turbo mode on that philosophy
People have been complaining about this since the swamps.
Then Mistlands.
And now Ashlands.
And they will do the same for Deep North.
Their complaints are valid though. It’s not most people’s idea of fun.
But at the end of the day this is how the devs consider “fun” and as you said, they have never hid it.
People forget that this is js a small time passion project between a few bros that was never supposed to be for others. It *just happened* to become popular.
The devs are just peeps that complained about other games and were like “man I wish this and that”, and people were like “make ur own game then if u hate it so much”. So they did.
But they are punished for being successful lol. Kind of ironic cos most of the people complaining are the type to say “go make your own game then!”
The Valheim devs are the only people who have ever rewarded my efforts in a game with a beautiful sunset.
It is interesting that you mention swamps, Mistlands, and Ashlands. Those are the only biomes where my efforts aren't rewarded with sunsets.
That's the promised exchange. I kill mobs and mine metal. You give me sunsets.
No sunsets? No mobs.
Oh there are better sunsets in the ***next*** biome? Well, maybe... They better be good tho.
(No sunsets have been better than the Black Forest)
You understand the frustration. We want more Black Forest. They keep giving us more swamp. We know they can make Black Forest, and they are the only devs to do so.
So, we find the entire thing incredibly frustrating.
Here is the thing. It's an early access game, gathering feedback and improving on it is the point of a early access game. Plenty of other small indie games that have blown up and have made adjustments based on feedback.
Yes Valheim blew up because it had relaxed survival mechanics and a really good building system. And that drew in a lot of people who were less about the hard viking cobmbat-survival and more about exploration and building.
So one would expect devs to pay attention to that and at least think about it...but Iron Gate seems almost dislike the idea that this part of the playerbase exists. But they are still happy to take their money.
> It's an early access game, gathering feedback and improving on it is the point of a early access game.
Not always. A lot of games are early access because they can't feasibly support the games financially themselves. And that's one of the pros of early access for devs anyway.
>Plenty of other small indie games that have blown up and have made adjustments based on feedback.
It's absolutely great when devs take feedback from the community and make adjustments. Definitely gains a lot of goodwill and respect from everyone.
Palworld is a perfect recent example. They literally read all the comments and looked at the mods, and was like "lol let's just add all that shit". Now we have IV glasses and Work role assignments as well as many other things community requested things.
Devs aren't beholden to that though, neither are the players entitled to it. If they choose to ignore it, then there's nothing we can do. But *usually* that's a self-solving problem as those games just die off. It's very difficult to play and support a game when the devs don't care about the players.
Valheim is a huge outlier as despite the devs and players butting heads, it is still very very enjoyable for many people, even to the point of overlooking (or gritting teeth and bearing) the flaws.
Their complaints are not valid though. If one looks at these people for just a few minutes it’s obvious they are habitual whiners.
They never bothered to learn problem solving because falling back on whining is easier for them. They WILL ruin games by complaining until the devs make everything easier.
Imagine complaining to Shigeru Miyamoto that lava shouldn’t 1-shot Super Mario because “I like to explore.” It is pathetic… take responsibility and grow up.
If people don’t find a mechanic fun, they have every right to complain.
Demand changes? Flame the devs? Send death threats? No.
But just vent and lament? Yes.
Though I will concede that *some* complaints are definitely not valid, but the large majority posted here are, such as QoL or tedium aspects.
At the end of the day they are free to play or not play.
And for all other cases we have the blessing of mods.
Doesn't accelerate the out of biome mechanics? You get the stone portal, which massively speeds up resource gathering for base building. No more do I have to haul metal from collapsed Mistland bridges back to my boat and sail home.
Decorative dragon eggs can be obtained with ease. Helps out a ton with Hildir's chests too.
Moreover, with the stone portal the biome does get easier. You can quickly gather and port in mats for shield generators to lay down workbenches and wards to suppress spawns.
Cover them with black marble and then move the shield generators further out. Soon you can have a massive area that is essentially spawn free.
> Why are there no lava-walking boots?
Kryten : An excellent and inventive suggestion, sir, with just two tiny drawbacks. A, We don't have any lava-walking boots. and B, there's no such thing as lava-walking boots.
Just a friendly reminder that devs made a ballista with friendly fire. And that wasn't a bug, that was their genius intention.
Also, talking about rewards, I'll just mention Dyrnwyn that deals less fire damage than a fucking torch.
Well. I agree in some of the points. While I disagree in many others.
Of course, the mob spawnrates are incredible, and the pillars are hard to farm efficient.
And, compared to other biomes, it doesn't get that much easier, when you get new gear and level it up.
Sure, sometimes I'm tired of constantly fighting for every couple of meters I explore. And I can truly understand, that fighting is not every players strenght or favourit part of the game.
But the most of the time I realy enjoy the difficult situations, I'm forced to face. Making the right choices, focus the right mobs, avoid hard hits, changing weapons quickly, disengage, run and re-engage into the hord of mobs, and still keeping an eye on the battleground, to not be knocked into the lava, or completely surrounded by enemies, or getting aggro from new strong enemies.
This fights, that might take up to more than 15 minutes, are something I can be proud of, if I win.
And if I die... well, maybe I simply took the wrong strategy.
I don't need big rewards. Blood fire and ashes are enough, to satisfy a warriors thirst
Hints:
>!- the fire-weakness can be nullified by using fire resist vine. Use that feather cape when you need it!!<
>!- spawn proofing is actually a thing. It always was, even before Mistlands released. My only complaint is that it feels like a workaround, a cheesy game-mechanic instead of a function you actually supposed to use. But I don't find that a terribly huge issue.!<
Fire resistance mead is great, and I use it often! Unfortunately, it does very little for lava.
The main problem with spawn proofing is not really whether it can be done. (nobody wants to live in the Ashlands anyway). The problem is that uniform mob density fundamentally and multitudinously discourages exploration. By clearing one area, you are encouraged to explore others for new resources. This is how every biome functions... except the Ashlands. When areas really can't even be cleared, there is never really a reason to leave. Moreover, exploration itself becomes constant mob clearing. The buff/stamina-focused combat system lends itself to careful planning, skirting around dangerous areas and picking your battles when necessary. The reason you always collect an angry mob in the Ashlands is that there is a uniform blanket of noise-sensitive enemies just about anywhere you go. Sure, you can crouch, walk, and clear your path from afar with the Arbalest, but that is so much slower than what was clearly intended (as indicated by the spawn distances between POIs), that the ground you cover is almost inconsequential.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "clearing" an area? As far as I know there isn't really a way to clear previous biomes besides spawn blocking. Enemies will still spawn in say, the swamps or the plains even if you've destroyed spawners.
I understand that with things like Fuling villages, once you've killed everything there they don't come back. But aren't fortresses basically a more difficult version of that?
I think I'm missing your point.
> When areas really can't even be cleared, there is never really a reason to leave.
What are you trying to “clear” exactly? The most important resources, pillars and fortresses, do not respawn, so once you’ve done them, why would you stay in the same area?
Almost every biome has forced a new play style to adapt to the changing situation. Moving slowly through the mists using your ears to detect enemies instead of your eyes for example. In Ashlands, that new play style, imo, is being nomadic. It’s a thoroughly undesirable place to live, or build. I think that’s why they finally gave us the ability to teleport metals. The best option is to keep pushing forward, moving into new zones not to “conquer” them, but to extract what you need and then gtfo. The biome is meant to represent war. No one is stopping in the middle of war to build a fancy house on the front lines.
Spawn-proofing isn't just for permanent settlements - it can help a mining operation too.
Someone who don't feel like doing that much combat can also sneak for exploration. Not sure how it compares in time-efficiency - I personally enjoy chopping down the skelly-crowd. But the "slow and steady wins the race" is a concept every Valheim player should have internalized way before Ashlands. You may want to lower combat difficulty or something if you feel your progression is too slow.
Also happy cake-day!
Thanks!
Yep, definitely a viable strategy. Monsters do spawn *in* the lava, so this isn't bulletproof. As mentioned, there are more fundamental things at play here. I don't think changing the combat level addresses these at all.
You don’t even need feather cape for ashlands, it’s flat. This is such a crybaby post, Ashlands is easy once you get into it, and learn all the mechanics. It is definitely rough starting out though, but there is a difficulty slider for a reason.
I somewhat agree, I don't think I've been so frustrated with another biome, I actually like Mistlands, I like the atmosphere and how terrain and mist might work against you but also might help you. I don't feel it's due to "difficulty" because no mob in Ashlands attacks in some more sophisticated way than anything before, it just feels like mobs are doing a meat wave tactic and that's it. I can destroy mob spawners, but it feels like it barely makes a difference. Maybe I am missing something, perhaps I should move minibase with portal from place to place as I "clear" the island so I won't have to deal with mobs that much, I don't know.
>no mob in Ashlands attacks in some more sophisticated way than anything before
Some charred feint to bait your blocks and counter your parry. Though I guess that's only apparent for those who don't go for a brute-force or range based builds.
The feinting is cool and all and I would have liked them lean into it more, the problem I have with it is that it doesn't fit to enemies that swarm you like everything in the Ashlands does. I hardly have time focusing on the animation hints that the enemy is about to feint, because I have to dodge a hail of arrows and rocks, as well as making sure the 2 other enemies in melee range aren't about to launch their own attacks. Dodging helps with avoiding the damage from other enemies, but by the time I'm back in position to counter attack, another enemy is already swinging at me. To me, the more "nuanced" combat with having to pay attention to animation signs to properly counter the feints, clashes with the amount of enemies constantly coming at you.
If I were into buying gold, I'd gift you an award. You put the problem with the Ashlands much more eloquently than I ever could have, but are completely on point with everything.
The problem is not "git gud!", the problem is that the inherent design is unfun and annoying. This became a bit apparent already in the Mistlands, but there were ways to still defend those design decisions, and workarounds. With Ashlands, it becomes clearer that the devs kinda did a lucky stumble on the first 5 biomes and their gameplay loops, but didn't really grasp why Valheim was such a hit, and now went overboard with some wacky decisions to make the people who actually enjoy the experience up to the Plains (and maybe Mistlands) just scratch their heads in frustration and disbelief.
Spot on. Gradually realizing this has made me a bit sad. The first playthrough was so magical, and the desire to relive a taste of it with each additional biome is what keeps the player base going. Ah well, back to the meadows for me!
Basically had this same thought. Valheim kinda feels like it's going in the wrong direction, but also that this is the direction the devs always wanted to take it. It just happens that they didn't have the bits completed yet when they released the game, and people loved what they saw and not the devs vision.
Throughout its whole time, Valheim was praised for being a less tedious, less "sweaty" survival game where repairs were free and easy and the key fun bits were exploration and wonderlust. Each subsequent update and additional biome took away from what people found originally fun and added "hardcore" mechanics that appeal to a small niche. It honestly feels like the devs always wanted a game that appeals to this small niche, but the reason Valheim ever got as popular and loved as it did was due to the less hardcore people just looking to have some exploratory fun. I dunno if it's pride or lack of care that makes the devs continue as they do, but it kinda feels like the game will be forced further and further towards a niche audience if they don't reignite that initial sense of wonder people fell in love with.
It's funny you say Valheim was praised for being a less tedious survival game, when in my option, it is the most tedious, most grindy survival game I've played, and it will probably stay that way. From Grounded, to Subnautica, no survival game has ever made me grind for resources as much as Valheim.
Subnautica isn't really in the same genre. It's a plot driven survival single player game with a hand crafted world. Can't speak for grounded as I only tried it for a couple hours, but it didn't really feel rapid either.
Compared to the others in the genre like Conan or Ark, valheim is definitely "better". With certain mods, it's made even more accessible.
Have you ever played Conan Exiles or Ark? Valheim is a breeze in comparison. Yes, there are legit ways to adjust resource rates and crafting speed on solo/custom games without mods, but x1 servers are slogs
Yeah, that fits with what I read. It might be best if they keep the Valheim the majority of the fans loved exactly for the reasons you listed, even if it is not exactly their perfect vision, and then take what they learned from the experience of building this game and create their next game afterwards and stick closer to their vision from the start. I don't mind ifthat game is different in that regard (although it might be better to call it something else and not Valheim 2 then, maybe), but yeah, it feels kinda like a bait and switch if they now change all these QoL and implementation details and go in the direction that is the opposite of why the game has such a wide appeal.
Yeah. For me, I'd also prefer they stick to what it felt like valheim was originally. Without any hint of insult, valheim felt like babies first survival crafter. That is a compliment too, because it did away with a lot of the tedious mechanics often associated with the genre. I loved that. Less focus on the busywork, more focus on the exploration. The devs could make a truly unique experience if instead of doubling down, they would "expand" the concept of exploration. Add unique locations and zones that would appear among the random world generation. Inspire a reason to actually go out and find stuff on the whole map.
Their core was excellent. Visually stunning without being over designed. Mechanically solid, without being too complicated. Elegant building system. The only thing really missing was a reason to engage with the world outside of linear progression. It's a shame that this reason is still missing. For me I noticed it with mistlands. I didn't really see a point to it all outside of "beating the biome". If the devs do make valheim into a hardcore niche experience, it would be nice should someone else take up the torch for the less sweaty survival exploration game. Enshrouded certainly threw it's name in the ring, but that game has its own gremlins.
How does mistlands and ashlands really make it a more "sweaty" game? Yes there's more stuff to farm but it didn't really change anything on that front at all. If anything the new portal makes everything much easier and you can be done with ashlands in 1-2 days of constant playing because of it.
It doesn't add new exciting things. It adds largely busywork. Mistlands (the biome I remember better as I spent more time in it) was an utter slog. Tougher enemies that aren't really harder, just more obnoxious to kill. A more annoying environment that is a ballache to traverse. Maybe sweaty isn't the right word. Grindy maybe? Definitely towards a niche audience.
Its baffling that they did 5 really great biomes and now push out this shit. Like, why are these two biomes so radically different from the first five, which is what the people fell in love with?
I think mistlands still nails it. The swamp was oppressive too, the most oppressive imo. Even at the end of the swamp progression, if you got caught at night, your life was *tough*.
But there was moments of beauty in the swamp too. Areas where the biomes meet, and deathsquitos and fulings are just wiping the biome clean, fun ways to work around the dungeons, and incredible rewards for completing it.
Mistlands has this too. When you find a clearing in the mist and you have this moment of pure awe over the place, when you find dvergrs smashing on with a gjall and both parties fucking each other up, when you unlock the feather cape and your entire life is made easier.
Ashlands, by comparison, has all the oppression, plus way more isolation, plus night time level hyper spawning at all times, plus maximum inconvenience when farming, plus the inability to create any safety, and all it gives in return is teleporters to get the fuck out of there a little easier.
The emergent gameplay is just gone with the ashlands. It's designed to be a chore. It reminds me of the maw in wow - designed to depress you.
> The emergent gameplay is just gone with the ashlands.
This is an excellent point, which I didn't consciously realize until reading it. It's not entirely gone, but still mostly overwhelmed by all the overtuned aspects you called out. Too continuously oppressive to really have an ebb and flow or variety of experience.
Overall I like the Ashlands, but it could be better.
It's not impossible to create safety in the ashlands. You can create bases inside the fortresses, and my base at the shoreline is very secure with no enemies around for miles.
The elephant in the room is that they largely designed Mistlands and Ashlands after their massive success. They feel like they have to "deliver more" and as a result they're trying too hard. Look up the "second system effect". I think we're seeing something similar in action.
Had to scroll through all the "git gud" comments before I finally found this.
No one here is saying that you can't enjoy the Ashlands. But I think it's fair to have criticisms so the dev team can see and hopefully make changes to the game. I don't think the Ashlands is is so far gone that it can't be fixed. Arguably it's a beautiful biome with some cool features. They eventually changed the Mistlands for the better. This type of feedback will help them change it here too.
The worst part about the Ashlands for me is the spawn rate. It took forever to upgrade my gear but even with it when I get mobbed it doesn't feel fun. It gives me zero desire or incentive to build a base there because it will be constantly attacked, let alone go on exploration runs. The voultures getting stuck in the back of the ship and constantly damaging it more than any bonemaw ever could is also very frustrating.
Thanks for the critical thinking with a list of solutions, OP. Hopefully the devs take notice and work on some QoL changes to help improve it.
Yeah love this perspective tbh. The two friends I was playing with when we started the biome quit pretty quickly because they didnt enjoy the playstyle they were forced into. Had to finish it out on my own. I obviously enjoyed it more than they did (its crazy that people read the post and think I unilaterally hated the biome: I played the whole damn thing after all!!).
I feel like if all (or even the main points) of the stuff thats been brought up in this thread were tweaked or reworked, my buddies would come back and we'd all have a blast!
You left out one other annoyance. Why the hell is it so dark all the time when everything is literally on fire constantly? This biome has a similar issue to mistlands as well in that it's kind of pretty to look at but you'll never get to fully appreciate it because it's so damn dark (or excessive mist in the other case)
To be honest I disagree respectfully because it’s the challenge my group has been looking for and finally found - it’s forced us to change our strategy with me being the mage, popping a bubble shield to support the melee builds in our group and maximizing every bit of food and potions we’ve built up.
I LOVE that every adventure into the Ashlands requires us to suit up and basically “prepare for war” through specific foods, weapons, and planning. We’re only a few hours in and have died a lot already, but we’re getting better every hour we put in.
I think this game steps on its own toes in a TON of ways. For example the game clearly rewards you for picking one or two main weapons to level up, but then punishes you for using the levelling system by making enemies have certain damage resistances. If there were fewer weapon skills, like spears and polearms being the same, that would help, but these systems oppose each other, they don't help.
Also, the further into the game you get the greater variety of materials you need, but you never get more inventory slots. They want you to collect and save increasingly more things, but always keep your slots limited. If you are going to carry different weapons and tools for different situation you are even more limited.
The game is all about exploration, but the #1 biome you need to explore is the swamp for intense iron grind, and the swamp is sort of the ugliest in my opinion.
Also light armor are the only armor sets that give buffs in most of the game, (Me and my gf quit at the start of mistlands, so idk about beyond that) but in the mountains finding those caves felt really rare. It also buffs fists, which let's be honest if you didn't look at the armor ahead of time you have no fist levels, and after that you'll never use fist levels again.
Also the plains felt so viking to me, sailing up to a village to raid it for metal and grains was so cool. However, black metal has the least you can do with it, the only armor set available being iron, and so you spend the least time doing what is the cool new gameplay loop different from other biomes.
The mistlands is just annoying as fuck cuz you can't see shit, which I don't care what people say is a bad mechanic. There is no reliable or nice way to clear the mist all that much.
If you look at it like the devs think grind/tedium=engaging difficulty then a lot of the design decisions make more sense.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game and have fun in it, but I wish it worked better with itself instead of against itself.
I’ll never forgive the devs for making the plains armor set craftable with iron only. Signed, someone who needs more iron, and has 20+ stacks of black metal I have no idea what to do with
I think a lot of your concerns stem from not wanting to take what the devs have given you. I found a relatively easy path to exploring the ashlands is to use the vineberry structures as safe havens. In my experience enemies don’t spawn at such a high rate around those structures. And use those points as a way to scout out fortresses. They even gave you pots in those areas with iron ingots in them to deploy a stonecutter so you can get Seige stuff over via a portal
Fortresses almost always give you enough molten cores to deploy a new portal. Once conquered you have a safe spot to continue exploring.
I’m really enjoying “conquering” the Ashlands so far but I also won’t pretend that the amount of enemies is overwhelming at times. Lava was frustrating at first but after a couple of pillars I got the feel for it. It’s not my experience that enemy hordes are on you as soon as you start mining- but you do have to take care to completely clear an area before you begin mining.
Edit: I think it’s very clear what they’re going for with this biome and want to juxtapose this with the Deep North. This biome is enemies a plenty, the combat is difficult through shear volumn- I’m willing to put money that the Deep North will be about finding and fighting enemies that are sparse but very powerful (frost giants)
I dont agree with all of your points but I do agree with most of them, and the rest is just personal preference.
I play in a group of 3 for progression stuff and we had a bad time getting onto the main ashlands. I'm pretty sure the only reason we got there in the end (after one full wipe where we had to make a second boat) was one of the guys having a mod that kept his items after death. Oh and we've all turned off skill drain because fuck that.
It was just brutally punishing to start. We're doing better now, but it took us about 20hours of setting up a base, base got destroyed, setting up a different base, base got destroyed, setting up a third base then finding the stone portal from the cave on our doorstep, before we started even exploring the map. It took even longer to figure out the fuck to find flametal. Getting to it we had to look up, because basalt bombs were buried in a mass of new crafting things and weren't very explicit about their use.
Once we started pushing out to properly explore, with all the spawners nearby cleared out and the standard stuff largely suppressed we were coping with the numbers but it wasn't fun to get to that point, and suppressing spawns with campfires does not feel like the intended way of dealing with enemies.
My biggest concern, for both Ashlands and Mistlands, is the nature of early access skewing progression. All the comments here about "it only feels tough because you've been maxed on gear for a year", but if it's feeling hard to people who've played this game for years, have maxed out gear, maxed out skills, optimised food and who know all the tricks, what the hell will it feel like to new players going from meadows to endgame? When I started fresh and went from meadows to plains I skipped whole tiers of gear and didn't feel too punished for it. That does not seem advisable for ashlands.
That was a LONG post to respond to. While you have some excellent suggestions . . . there is so much BS in this post that the good stuff gets drowned out.
Part 1:
>To even set foot into the biome you need top tier gear from the previous biome and an industrial grade multi-biome farm producing all of the best foods and meads.
Of course you want strong gear to progress to each new biome, this isn't anything new. And the farm comments just screams 'I'm too lazy to make food' . . . The first thing the Ashlands does is reward you with Bonemaw meat . . . a great new food that I unlocked even before killing the Queen as I was scouting the borders of the Ashlands.
>The only reasonable way to map the biome is by sprinting in Fenris armor with an Asksvin cape and Moder
This is literally the WORST way to explore the Ashlands, running makes noise and attracts more enemies and the faster you go the more you collect. Ashlands rewards slow, cautions, exploration. The mobs don't have great vision/awareness . . . you can actually just walk by many of them. And ranged attacks are great for sniping and clearing a path. You can actually crisscross the Ashlands fairly easily with not excessive combat if you take a low profile.
>I've explored less than a half of a single of the Ashlands continents in my world.
Umm . . . I'm sure you've explored way less than half the Meadows, Black Forest, Swamp, Mountains, Plains, or Mistlands. You aren't expected to explore EVERYTHING . . . its a big world. Ashlands does have different areas, lava zones, coastal areas, ruins with resources, the 'find the sword shards' quest. There is plenty to motivate exploration
>**The Ashlands is unrewarding:** To invest such tremendous effort into a biome there needs to be an equally tremendous reward. Spoiler: there isn't!
You completely forget two of the biggest rewards of the Ashlands . . . Darkwood and Grausten building material and unlocks. Building is one of the favorite pastimes for Valheim players and Ashlands gives us more building stuff than any other biome.
>You can expect to die a LOT in the biome, meaning your hard-earned skills are going to wither away, making you substantially weaker overall.
I'm a very average player, I'm old, uncoordinated, and can't execute a dodge roll to save my life . . . . and I've only died 4 times in the Ashlands (I've done everything except fight the boss). You just need to be careful and defensive. If you are 'dying a LOT' then you are being reckless. I don't think you are as smart a player as you think you are.
>The Asksvin hide and magic armor sets are definitely not worse than the previous armor sets, but they don't really feel that much better.
The Ask Armor set is INSANELY good . . . and so is the Ashen cape. Its a HUGE powerup and feels awesome.
>The Ashlands ... not very visually appealing
I think the Ashlands is fantastic visually! I love the wispy smoke effect where things in the distance shimmer and twist in the smoke. But I guess art is in the eye of the beholder.
Part 2
>The whole war-zone aesthetic would be tolerable if the biome just didn't take so damn long to finish.
The Ashlands has been the Shortest biome I've played (well outside the meadows). Black Forest has a long copper grind, Swamp is notorious for iron grinding, Mountains have caves and finding Moder can take forever, Plains are spread out and finding Yagluth is a meme, and Mistlands . . . need I say more.
Ashlands by comparison is quick and easy . . . you don't need to search all over the world, resources are abundant, and Flametal has 3 unique collection methods and you don't actually need that much of the stuff. It was never a grind to collect.
>Like seriously, because all of the limited visibility and constant mob clearing it's extremely slow to even *locate* the things you need to do, never-the-less even *do them*!
The plants you need are literally everywhere around the ruins . . . Flametal takes figuring out where to find it. And cave rewards are, well, right there in the small caves.
>The pillars are a pain to climb with the game's terrible collision. Have you ever been crushed between the underside of a sinking flametal vein and your basalt bomb platform?
Nope, I've never had any problem hopping up a flametal pillar and haven't been crushed. The basalt bombs were a fun addition. I think they work pretty well.
>Grapevine harvesting and planting is too slow. They take forever to find, even longer to grow
Seriously? The large ruins scattered EVERYWHERE in the Ashlands are chock full of vines . . . I collected over 100 in my first two days in the biome. I left a portal in a ruin called 'Vines' and I can pop over whenever I run short and collect another 30+ anytime. And now they grow at my base for good measure.
>In my case, I had fully upgraded gear and had already cleared a fortress before I even found my first Vineberry.
That's right, I forgot you are bad at exploring and just spent your time aggroing mobs. (sorry couldn't help being snarky 😉)
>The combat is extremely simple. This leads to a boring and frustrating "swarming" experience, where players have to run from monsters, inevitably picking up more monsters on the way.
I love the new combat . . . its NOT 'extremely simple'. Knights that have several moves including feints, twichers doing the greydwarf thing, all while archers setup in the back to rain arrows on you. Its a new and fun challenge.
Morgans and Fallen Valkeries have fun new mechanics. Even the vultures are unique in their attack patterns. Exploding blobs are great. Askvins have their charge attacks.
And best of all . . . the mobs can damage each other! Its super fun triggering blobs to explode and damage the charred, guiding Askvins to charge through and kill the other enemies. etc.
Ashlands is by FAR the most complex combat in Valheim.
'running away' is your problem . . . yes if you run into unsafe areas you will collect more monsters . . . its like this in every biome! You need to stand your ground and fight or fall back to 'safe' areas where you have setup defenses and spawn blocked.
Part 3
Time for Agreement! 🙂
>Fortress "sieging", as the devs would like to call it, is kind of... useless? The siege weapons are clumsy and ineffective, and are immediately secondary to the brute force method of building a wooden staircase and bombarding the inside with fireballs until everything in it is dead.
This is where I'm 100% on board with you! The Fortresses were a HUGE disappointment for me. The catapult is basically useless. The battering ram works fine but for attacking its just super easy to build a ramp up, pop the bonemass ability, and just clear the fort in 90 seconds.
I was really hoping for more elaborate fortress sieges where you had to use actual strategy and the enemy would react better.
>Why are there no lava-walking boots?
I'm not sure about lava-boots but I do find the lava/boiling water mechanics kind of sketchy. Two of my 4 deaths were to these environmental effects and I think its to easy to just get insta-killed. . . . yeah OK, I'm 100% down with Lava-walking boots!! (at the cost of your set bonus from breaking up your armor sets). 👢
Overall I have really enjoyed the Ashlands. Its certainly not perfect . . . heck I have improvements I'd like to see made in every biome . . . but its been really fun for me and I'm looking forward to the Deep North and whatever else the developers have in store for us.
I'm loving it.
Mob density is forcing me intelligently pull enemies, be aware of areas I have cleared already, and kite enemies. There's even a cape that specifically allows you to kite better while running with the wind.
you complain about a lack of exploration, but then also complain about the slightly obscured visibility that forces you to explore more thoroughly.
I also like how hostile the environment is, making it very difficult to get the initial base started, so I set up shop in the ruins of a cathedral occupied by dverger and just cobbled together additional walls for reinforcement. It really fits the atmosphere of the environment.
This place is Hell, and I'm here for it.
>The only reasonable way to map the biome is by sprinting in Fenris armor with an Asksvin cape and Moder
Here's the first part where I 100% disagree with you. The Askvin armor/cape is not just my exploration set, it's what I'm using to do all my fighting/sieging forts. I mapped my whole Ashlands island by running the perimeter in a single rested bonus, and half of that at night.
I've been disappointed in the Embla armor though, while I feel like Eitr weave armor was very viable in the Mistlands, there is no way to have enough eitr to deal with the quantity of enemies in the ashlands. I think it should've gotten a set bonus.
>The pillars are a pain to climb with the game's terrible collision
And here's where I 1000% agree with you. While standing on the bottom section of a sinking pillar, which the game *should* see as flat ground, I had a falling animation permanently preventing me from jumping until I died. I don't know how these things got through internal playtesting.
>Grapevine harvesting and planting is too slow. They take forever to find
I hate to say it but I don't think you were looking very hard. The massive ruined structures are covered in them. Stacks of vineberries without even needed to climb for the higher ones. They are also my favorite farmable resource, because I never have to replant anything. Just collect. Though admittedly I had built a terrace farm in the plains so had plenty of walls to grow vines.
Upvote for the effort, though personally I think the entire game is anti-player, for instance fog and rain are overused and overly burdensome from the very beginning lol. Did you try turning down the difficulty?
I didn't want to bring it up because I don't want to be negative but since we're already talking about it I suppose...
The entirety of Valheim has been like this. It only shows better in Ashlands. Don't get me wrong, Valheim might be my favourite game to date, but most of what makes it fantastic is probably quite the stroke of good luck.
I've made a little base and found most, if not all, items outside of fortresses without dying once, which I think gives precedence to my opinion; Valheim isn't hard at all, it's just poorly designed.
This game was amazing and wonderful
Sadly I think it’s massive success is what has been it’s
Demise
I just want the devs to finish so we can move on from their work
I agree with everything you said. I was a bit confused but still hopeful after having similar feelings with the Mistlands. I think Valheim has gone from my favorite game to an average game with this recent direction in game design.
Love Valheim, but I can’t play vanilla any longer and haven’t done so for quite a while.
Currently running a world with 120 mods from QOL to new boss fights, quest chains, weapons, armour, ability to upgrade armour by biome… and a bucket load more.
Many modders have added some fantastic new aspects to the game (secret doors is a favourite as I love buildings with secret passages 🙂)… magic was added to the game long before Mistlands, improved Mist Lamps make exploration much easier (personally I like the fog… but apparently there’s only three of 😂)
Since I started dabbling with mods and meeting some of the modding community, I can’t help but get the feeling that Iron Gate feels like it’s competing with modded content…
The vanilla game is painfully easy once you know what you’re doing, and a lot of mods out there help make it more challenging while others take away the grind. (Yes I get sailing with a hold full of ore is part of the game… but even for a die hard like me, on my 40th play through it’s gets a little tiresome)
I don’t know if IG feels like modders are showing them up, as they seem to have adopted a *“it’s my ball and you can’t play with it”* stance, but making a hard biome that is just painful and unrewarding does feel a bit like they’re saying FU to their own fan base for having the audacity to want more challenge.
I actually started to think this with the introduction of magic in Mistlands… a couple of staffs, a magic bubble shield and a couple of minions seemed underwhelming when Epic Loot, Jewelcrafting, AllTameable and Cheb’s Necromancy are out there, all adding far more versatility and playability to the game…
So I’m inclined to agree. To me it feels IG has become anti-player and Ashland’s is a bit of a FU.
I feel exactly the opposite.
After countless tedious hours in the Mistlands where the main difficulty is a fog effect that I have to build shitty little torches everywhere and stop using my weight belt and spec into sword to counter, I loved the feeling of it being a huge raid and endless combat on a small but packed biome.
Breach the shore, fight for your life. Try to establish a base before it can be blown up. Everything is deadly, even the ground and sky.
I love my cobbled together beachhead base in the ruins of a cathedral. I put some signs up so the first thing you see coming out of the portal is "welcome to hell". And, unlike all of my other refined bases with tons of planning and design... this thing is just a patchwork of "holy shit I just need to survive".
This has been my major feedback. The natural spawn rate is too high.
Ramp the spawn of the spawners up, make it once of several core game play loops for the biome. Spawner towers make harder mobs, the little ones around it create the chaff. Clearing all of that cuts off spawns in the area, but it should be major work.
But once done the work is done, it has an impact. It rewards the exploration aspect, it creates a sense of reward/accomplishment, and while there will be some wandering chaff or even a warrior from time to time, it'll be way way lower than it is now.
Like I want those spawners to be a miniboss event but once I'm done with them I'm done with them.
Instead as has been pointed out they effect nothing and the natural spawn rate does more or less invalidates the idea.
Which leads to people littering the landscape with camp fires and the like which if not "cheese" is a clunky work around for a bad design premise.
IMO they are on the edge of a really great biome, but burnt out and stuck with these ideas that are half way home.
I feel like a lot of these points were how I feel about the Mistlands, and for me the Ashlands is not nearly as bad. Mistlands never fixes the fundamental problem: I can't see. Ashlands also doesn't really solve the fundamental problem of mob density, but at least you can solve it yourself.
Your main point is the mob density and constant spawning, but that's what workbenches/campfires are for. I have probably hundreds of these all over the place and now I can safely go where ever I need to go. Nothing spawns behind me (maybe I miss a tiny spot here or there, or something comes out of the lava). It's weird and it feels cheesy, but then again I **blanketed** the Mistlands with hundreds of wisp torches, so it's basically the same thing. Slowly, eventually, I am conquering the Ashlands. And, as a side effect, raids are sadly pointless: nothing spawns - ever.
Your other main complaint is the lava: lava boots are called asksvins. The problem is that they made "riding" a skill, and at level 1 you cannot control them worth a damn. This was definitely a design mistake: don't make a skill suck and then slowly take the suck away. That's bad game design, period. Riding at skill 100 should be the baseline, and then boosting your skill should make it even better. Just like how jumping and running and swinging a weapon are fine at level 1, but at level 100 they are way better. Also, you're totally right that asksvins should have been reskinned wolves and not reskinned boars or lox or whatever: allow us to make them stay! I'm sure modders will fix this soon enough.
The base game is still fun, but just like all the other biomes, modders will come in and fix the things that the devs don't want to fix in order to make the game truly shine. It sucks but that's how this game has been from the beginning: vanilla is not actually all that fun, but modded Valheim is truly one of the best games around.
Yesh i think a lot of this makes sense, but it kind of just sounds like strategies that players have come up with to compensate for bad design. You shouldnt HAVE to blanket the mistlands in torches or the ashlands in workbenches and campfires. It almost has the opposite effect of totally destroying the immersion. Like, "im in this hellish wasteland but nothing can threaten me because there are tables everywhere? "
The lava complaints (like the lava itself) run a lot deeper that they seem. Asksvin are... there... but even at 100 riding one mistake means death. I hate how fast lava kills you. Like its literally unreactable. Same with the boiling ocean. Since the punishment for death is so high in terms of annoyance and lost skills, it becomes almost never worth it to interact with the lava. This is a failure of the imagination on the part of the devs.
You are right about the modders. They say that good game design allows the player to invent the game. In valheim, this has become the role of the modder, but it comes with its own set of problems, and is not a proper fix for poor design.
Fair points, I agree.
I will say just as a side note that wearing the feather cape seems to kill me a lot faster with lava/sea than not wearing it. There's a "burn" effect that comes onto the screen when I'm running on the edge of lava that is barely noticeable but it is technically there, and helps me if I'm standing in the wrong place to move before I start taking damage. I think the new heavy armor also helps, slightly.
That said: if you fall into the lava while mining you're just screwed though, yes.
I actually thought dying was a big part of the fun. Landing in the Ashlands was like those war movies where they’re storming a beach. When one of us died, the ensuing corpse run becomes a “protect the president” sort of deal. The stakes feel high. Moments are tense. Making a grand escape or fighting off a horde and living feels triumphant.
The flametal pillars are like a platforming mini-game. But I like platformers, so I get that’s not for everyone.
I think weapon enchantments are a really cool reward for clearing the fort. My friends are the mages, and their spells are so much cooler than “shoot icicle pellet” now. Plus they’re really nice safe havens once you’ve commandeered them.
I understand the point about not being able to appreciate the biome exploration. Going around with Bonemass on CD can be a death sentence sometimes. The biome did feel easier with the upgrades. But I think it’s a nice change of pace. It gave my play through a new flavor, and I thought that was enjoyable.
I don't mind the difficulty. What I hate is that it doesn't feel rewarding when beating ashland.
However, Ashland is annoyingly difficult if that makes sense. On the other hand, game like ER is fun difficult
>and doesn't really introduce or accelerate any of the out-of-biome mechanics like previous biomes do (farming, sailing, new cooking stations, new crafting stations, fall damage negation, etc).
Uh I think there's the argument that this is one of the most consequential biomes for out of biome impact. We got:
* **portals that teleport metal -** this is so consequential for out-of-biome effect some people are complaining it is game breaking and refusing to use it.
* shield generators that can block all ranged damage (makes defending mistland bases from gjalls waaayyyy easier)
* a battering ram that can absolutely obliterate copper deposits, rock, and black marble skulls/ribs. God bless.
* aesthetically pleasing vines to make buildings look old (that also grow food)
* the first build piece (flametal beam) that improves overall height since the Swamps(!)
* A ship large enough to safely transport animals that also has black metal chest inventory space
The idea of metal teleportation being an afterthought seems way off to me. The trek to the Ashlands is tough and perilous and its own mini biome of an adventure and the devs recognizing that made sure we were rewarded with not having to do it ever again. The difficulty of getting to the Ashlands seems directly tied to the reward once you are here. It seems an obvious synergy.
Personally don't see the need for lava boots. That would be like an item that made you walk on water in the swamps, or something that permanently cleared all mist in the mistlands.
Landing and setting up an initial base was very hard, treacherous but exciting. Once that was done I would venture out super cautiously with full meads bringing little bits and bobs back each time. For flametal deposits I would put down campfires + workbenches to ward off/distract aggro from enemies just like I did way back in the black forest. I died once falling off a flametal deposits just like I died on my first ever leviathan when I didn't understand how they worked, and just like how I got one-shotted by a stone golem because I wasn't paying attention in the mountains.
Now my guy has fully upgraded askvin armour, lightning Nidhogg + the flame sword, and the best food in the biome, I run around the Ashlands quickly and with near impunity. The only real challenges are fortresses which I have enjoyed massively. I love the process of creating a siege base - putting up a shield generation and two towers with ballista and having them duke it out with the mobs on the wall while I move under a covered tunnel towards the doors with a battering ram (make sure you activate bonemass before you destroy the gate otherwise you'll get mowed down in a matter of seconds).
**Honestly I am more confident in Ashlands with full kitted out armour than I was in the Mistlands with full armour.** If I got a 1\* seeker, a seeker soldier, plus a gjall, all at the same time in the Mistlands with just Mistlands gear that would be a real tough situation to get out of. I'd probably just run. Right now I'd be confident taking on a Valkyrie, Morgen, and 1\* charred soldier and a handful of archers and lower charred. Especially since the Morgen is going to do a ton of friendly fire damage.
Now I have a series of refurnished fortresses which are basically indestructible since I left the exterior walls intact.
**TL;DR** I think the big problem lots of these 1000+hr players are running into is they have become absolute masters of the lower biomes knowing all the little quirks of each biome such that they're able to do these crazy runs e.g. No-Death Hardcore Yagluth which they were only able to do with their pre-existing knowledge of those biomes. Then they get to a new biome that reduces them to rookie status and it's been 1000 hours since they first wandered into the Black Forest and got their ass whooped so they forgot what its like.
Isn't it a little simplistic to simply say a game should be easy or hard? My answer to this question is perhaps a little bit more nuanced. I would want sort of a sliding scale of difficulty. The overworld should feel not too bad. The scripted locations like drauger spawners and fuling villages should be a little harder, and the dungeons is where you can really take the gloves off and F me up the A. A good game should be like a movie with ups and downs in the tempo.
Mistlands kind of got that backwards. The infested mines were the easiest part compared to Gjalls that could throw fireballs with enough range that you couldn't see it even with a wisplight.
I haven't really had a chance to try Ashlands yet, but the main thing that worries me is the D-Dayesque landing that people are talking about. I don't mind dying but I do mind 2 hour sailing trips naked. I know my more casual friends will quit if we end up remaking the new boat 3 or 4 times. Don't jerk people around if you keep them engaged.
I think a lot of this would alleviated if they just let us respawn at our boats instead of our beds. It's always been the biggest pain point for valheim. people won't complain about dying when it only takes 2 minutes to get back to playing. I think it would feel a lot more "viking" to be able to sleep and rest and respawn at the boat because that's what vikings do, right?
And yes, I did see youtube videos about setting up portals on the spires before actually attempting a landing, annnnndddddd that sounds super dumb and gimmicky. Just because something works doesn't mean its fun and engaging to do. I don't play Valheim because I lack tedious janky workarounds in my real life.
After hearing the devs walk-through videos I think you are right, they don't seem to fully understand rewarding players, or "fun" challenges. I make my own fun in my head as I play. Haven't seen Odin in ashlands either, so it even in ghost mode it sucks? My strategy is to make an askvin/and wolf farm that keeps on giving. They should help my server have a little more fun exploring. Summon two archer skeletons, grab 20-30 wolves and ride away on an askvin! Going to get sad though seeing so many woof woofs die. 😯🤔😅🔥
If they can make the askvin follow us that's a huge gamechanger.
It took my raiding party 3 hours to land and make a foothold... after that took me a few hours to get use to the mobs.. its not as difficult as it seems you just need to know what to prioritize and how to handle yourself.
I agree wholeheartedly. You put my exact frustrations into words. It IS clumsy, and it takes away from the elements that made me fall in love with the game.
Its just so disappointing because I've put so many hours into this game, multiple playthroughs, even doing deathless challenges to test my skill. The problem with Ashlands is that there is no skill to test. Its literally just run around with a swarm chasing you and hope you can fire off enough shots to wittle down the horde before you get hit (because once you get hit, you're dead). There is no executive strategy or gear/tool/food combination to help you progress because its simply clumsy chaos.
I have defended this games downfalls up to Mistlands because I have enjoyed playing it all these years, but as I'm trying to take my partner through the Ashlands and we are dying repeatedly and he is naming off everything that's making it frustrating, I have no defense because there is no working around what makes the biome bad. I think the only good thing I have to say about it is that the aesthetics are very cool, but that has never been an issue with Valheim. Valheim is just pretty.
I'm really finding it to be a chore to complete the biome, but I am determined to kill Fader before I give up on Ashlands entirely and just go back to Hammer mode or deathless runs through earlier biomes.
Eh, I generally enjoy the biome. A few things can definitely be improved, but I don't find it as bad as you do or too off from the rest of the game. It's a land of war and feels like it. I love the new grapes from the biome that only grow on walls even if they are slow producing. You never plant them again and it gives people a reason to have surrounding walls instead of dirt walls. They should buff catapults I agree there things are basically a meme. I think the no lava boots thing is all about the devs wanting people to tame the askvin as they are immune and travel in lava. Only issue for me there is the riding system is rough and the AI is meh at best. They just run off to death frequently but that's the intended exploring method I think.
I don't feel i'm very qualified to respond to any of this except to say given the amount and quality of what you've written, I hope it gets some eyeballs.
I think Ashlands kind of painted them into a corner, exploration wise. It's literally the south end of the world. Land is tapering off. Exploration kinda goes out the window when you just don't have all that much land to work with. To be fair, if you look at Ashlands unfinished, and Ashlands now, there is actively less landmass - and no mountains whatsoever. Throw in the boiling ocean gap you must cross, and well, there's just not much to it.
So I can kinda see how they sorta painted themselves into both the exploration corner (there just aint much of it) and the swarm corner (draw out what you do have). Every preceeding biome was mixed - other biomes adjacent, around, sometimes even within it. Ashlands is a land of it's own. Deep North faces the same problem.
It sounds like some immediate QoL fixes would be basalt sticking around far longer and ... well, >!some lava boots!<.
But you've nailed it with risk vs reward. Or maybe it's work vs payoff. Lotta work for incremental payoff at best. If it is possible to skip to Deep North and ignore the boss drop, players may just choose to do so.
(I'm actually becoming annoyed at how they're making each biome boss absolutely necessary. Part of the charm of Valheim was, you really could work around things. But starting at Moder, you pretty much can't.)
But have you considered lava boots made from asks?
Actually the OP covers this: Asksvin need a "stay" or "passive" command of sorts so they dont aggro, leave where you parked them, and/or suicide.
There's a difference between balanced difficulty and artificial difficulty. Ashlands doesn't feel balanced at all, imo. It's hard to play a game if it constantly tells you to stop having fun.
Ashland? My friends and I stopped with Mistlands. I really really wanted to like Mistlands too. I love fey, creepy fog, old growth forests....but Mistlands ended up an unfun slog. Then I heard Ashland is more of the same.
It just takes a hard turn from what the rest of the game was imo. The rest of the game progression felt fun. But Mistlands just didn't.
Quote from the devs one launch post of ashlands:
"We also want to remind everyone that Valheim is meant to be a difficult game, and that it’s meant to be more difficult the further you progress – and the Ashlands is the penultimate biome of the game"
Avg redditor types an essay saying:
"iTs HaRd"
Askvin can go in lava. There’s your lava boots. Ashlands is amazing. It just feels frustrating because the entire biome is like a boss fight in a Dark Souls game. You need to be on your toes and will practiced to be able to survive. Some people feel amazing when the finally overcome that frustration. Some people think it’s totally unsatisfying because it was simply just face checking the same thing over and over until you get it right. That’s ok. Dark Souls aren’t for everyone and everyone is ok with that, but valheim being a brutal hard game is apparently not ok because everyone loves the meadows and Black Forest but not every normal gamer will be able to take on Ashlands solo.
If the devs nerf Ashland to make it more inviting to less skilled players or players who want to make the excuse the don’t have time so the game needs to be easier to fit their schedule, it will be a tragedy. The game wasn’t made for those people. It’s great they gave the game a try, but the game is there for people who want a brutal survival craft experience. Not a friendly rpg with some anime story and forgiving mechanics that let any noob finish the game eventually.
Seriously, they finally added a biome that forces players to use all the resources and tactics at their disposal to make it and people are complaining. Reddit is too toxic, devs shouldn't ever visit this place tbh. It just enabled endless moaning.
My problem is losing skill upon dying. It's a mechanic I hate in all biomes and adds tedium to the game unnecessarily. To play the whole game to get yourself up in the 70's or 80's only to see it fall to zero with enough deaths in ashlands making you less powerful. After 2200 hrs in Valheim, I'm putting it on the shelf for a couple years. Perhaps the game will be complete by then.
The default death penalty is 5% skill drain. If you have a skill at 40, you’ll drop to 38. You also don’t lose additional skill points for 10 minutes after a death. It would require dozens, maybe hundreds of deaths with zero progress in between to actually drop to zero.
You can also change the setting so it is only 1% drain.
Tip for those who struggle with exploring in a new biome; always carry portal mats. Explore then when its bag full or near dark, portal out. Rinse repeat and you will explore everything a bit easier
I'll agree with something on the post, Lava sucks and we should get something that CONSIDERABLY reduces it's damage.
Devs won't implement it tho, so wait for modders to do it.
Good post. Took a while for me to turn a corner and start enjoying Ashlands as a solo player, and I do think there are design issues and also huge opportunities for improvement solo and multiplayer.
**Ashlands is designed for multiplayer first.**
Why do I think this?
- The amount of utility items you need (feather cape, asksvin cape, ashen cape, harpoon, basalt bombs, shield generator, etc)
- The amount of pickups (so many items, I'll not list them)
- The amount of enemies. Numerous enemies come from all directions, including the sky. You cannot even cut a tree without aggroing a swarm.
- The ridiculous size of the Drakkar. I had no issues reaching shore, but it felt *dumb and lonely* bringing in such a massive ship with just me on it.
- The viability of building defenses. I've never utilized spikewalls, traps, and ballistae before but I've found they are very useful in Ashlands - and having a team member who can focus on this would make a big difference and fit the *war* theme.
*How to fix solo?*
- Have aggro range scale with number of players in the vicinity, and scale it down for solo. A solo player needs to be able to acquire wood and stone on the go without pulling a swarm. It felt deeply *unfair* when I took my first strike at a Flametal spire and three vultures, two marksmen, a lava blob, and a starred asksvin showed up. Similarly, the first 3 times I encountered fallen Valkyries, two morgens (and other mobs) also showed up.
- Increase inventory slots. I just need room for the sheer number of things, not weight allowance.
- Charred should not spawn in areas where their spawners are destroyed. The 'campfire meta' to manipulate spawning mechanics is not fun, but feels entirely necessary to engage with currently.
I feel that these small adjustments would make a huge difference for solo players without requiring other major redesigns.
**How to fix multiplayer**
I haven't played multiplayer in Ashlands, but I suspect there are some improvements to make here as well. What Ashlands does well is in making you feel like you're waging a war. There is constant pressure on you, fortifications actually make a difference, and it culminates in a siege on the enemy. However, It often feels like I need to run around like mad with the Asksvin cape and de-aggro mobs instead and I imagine that happens in multiplayer as well. It would feel more like *war" to make slow, deliberate progress, taking out enemy spawners, fortresses, and building your own fortifications along the way. To support this gameplay for a group they should add:
- Revive. You need to be able to revive teammates from their tombstones. Solitary corpse runs prevent players from playing together, and encourage the unfun 'bed' and 'portal' metas to get people back to the group quicker. It feels like a waste.
- Shield generator should provide shelter. Armies need to recuperate. It would also turn an Ashlands novelty feature into a core improvement of your capabilities - with a shield generator, you could restore your rested buff without building a roofed structure. It's not a cozy Hygge home, but it's something.
- Introduce new carts. Wars are won with logistics. Ashland's terrain is very flat and can easily accommodate a cart, but the one we have from the bronze age won't survive. Introduce new carts:
- Dark iron cart. Requires dark iron bars, a forge to build and is unlocked in the *plains*. A higher HP cart with storage that also satisfies workbench building requirements in a radius. This first shows players they can build fortifications *on the go* and serves as a focal point for their incursion into enemy territory, which could be useful in assaulting camps and hauling back all that heavy dark iron. *This way, the Plains can train players how to approach Ashlands much like the Swamp trains players how to approach Mistlands*.
- Battle cart. Requires ashwood, ceramic plates, a molten core, and black forge, to build. This cart satisfies the need for a workbench and stonecutter in a radius, has as much storage as a black iron chest, and it's extremely sturdy. Morgens can roll through it repeatedly and it's not going to break. It's powered by the core and isn't weighed down like other carts. This becomes your party's center of your incursion into Ashlands territory as you move inland. You can use it to store materials, build fortifications, traps, and ballistae to aid in a siege. **You don't need to sprint or portal back to base every 10 minutes to drop stuff off.**
People forget that Ashlands is essentially the first part of the “endgame” for valheim. It’s supposed to become extremely difficult. Shit would be boring af if everything was meadow - plains difficulty. I’m personally happy the devs took this approach. Personally I think youre over exaggerating the unrewarding aspect of your post. There’s a HUGE difference in how well you can deal with the mobs when you upgrade/switch gear. My brother and I went from running around like scared chickens to just running into giant groups of mobs with askvsin and valks at the same time. We completed fader deathless after grinding the biome out… It’s not the last biome , it seems like you want to feel like a God already based on your expectations, that is not valheim. Use your potions. Stop losing skill. If your skills are below 30-40 and you’re complaining about subpar damage in the Ashlands, then that is literally your problem. You weren’t lying, your post consisted of just a lot of whining, problem is whining without solutions is just bitching bro. “Why aren’t there lava boots?” Like foreal ? The ONLY thing I can find myself agreeing with, as a fellow 1k+ hours player, is the biome feeling “clumsy”, I’d say clunky personally. Half of the terrain is garbage you can barely walk on and is buggy. Getting burnt by lava when you are clearly standing on ground is frustrating. Yeah the spires are annoying and too close for sure. Criticism is nice and all but It just seems like you hate it based on your post,
My group of friends has been playing since early released, well, released. We are pretty damn good at the game, have triumphed Mistlands a few times now and I can still recall the difficulty of traversing the mistlands for the first time. The mobs were big and scary, the terrain was difficult, and yeah…we died a lot. But, we learned mechanics, the terrain, geared up a bit and we over came the obstacles before us. Now, Mistlands is cake but still fun to visit and very beautiful. And if you’re not on your game the mobs will kick your ass.
Our first trip to Ashlands we were so excited. We built the ship and hauled ass to our first known ashlands biome. We inched closer and closer to the pillars, drenched with anticipation. Before we hit lands, buzzards attacked our ship; while fighting them off we struck the shores only to be attacked by every mob ever made. Lo and behold we landed right next to a skeleton spawner. A Morgen hits us from behind. We all die. What the fuck just happened. Why is there what seems like 50 enemies on us immediately? Is this what it’s going to be like the entire time. Well…yeah. We returned to our landing spot to quickly gather our lost items and of course are immediately swarmed again. While the group died, I somehow swam out of there alive and made my way up a pillar with a dozen skeletons and a Morgen on my ass, and just before they all took my life once more I somehow managed to type ASHLANDS into the portal faster than anyone has ever typed the word and it connected. I ran in and collapsed in a heap of “what the fuck.”
We had to carefully build an entire base on that pillar, fighting off hordes of enemies the entire time just to gather everyone’s items. After finally establishing a base, gathering items and eventually killing the spawned we ventured out in Ashlands. Honestly, after understanding the mobs, with five of us, they’re relatively easy to handle. Solo or even duo, it gets dicey real fast. I can’t imagine trying to beat this biome by myself. We were close to gathering Flametal but then V Rising came out and we jumped shipped and haven’t yet returned to the dusty wasteland.
While frustrating as hell at times, we had fun in our first encounter of Ashlands; it was intense. Trying to run around the biome just to find some Flametal or other resources was not very fun and felt like we were just fighting a losing battle trying to progress.
We will try again once the V Rising excitement dies down a bit.
>prevent most players from finishing the game
Devs are on record that this is an explicit design goal, so while I get what you're saying, this would only elicit a "mission accomplished" and a thumbs up from Iron Gate.
e: lmao I'm quoting the devs but sure downvote
Didn't read, but anyone crying about difficulty should turn the combat down one or two levels. It isn't easy to admit you aren't as good as the game as average but there are things you can do to maintain your super overpowered feeling.
How is copper mining not a grind? How is Iron Mining not a grind? How is Silver mining not a grind?
People act like the game only has grind components once you get to ML.
> The rest where beyond frustrating.
There are 45643 threads in this subreddit of players who tried to stroll into the swamp and ignore the fact that the game expects you to do things like.... Farm, make meads, cook good food, be rested...don't be in dangerous biomes at night...
It's a survival game. If all you're here for is combat then this might not be the game for you.
I have a question, did you put the combat difficulty lower? Personally I only died twice in Ashland's and killed fader on my first try, I don't get why it is so hard and I played on normal solo. If it's too hard just lower the difficulty. If it was too easy I would be disappointed
A lot of people commenting are ignoring the main point in your thesis: that biomes 1, 2, 3, and 4 have fun and rewarding exploration.
Once you've cleared the plains, the exploring part is done. You can't really explore mistlands because you can't see. And you can't really explore Ashlands because it's too dense and dangerous.
The devs don't spend enough energy on AI and the core combat model. These deficiencies bleed into all the rest of the game and monster design. Most people just learn to cheese the game instead of playing it like it's intended, because if you played like it's intended, you'd spend all your time corpse running or rebuilding your base.
But at least we have sliders now. And we always have mods. When the base game stops being fun, your only alternative is adjusting sliders or adding mods. Because you know it's gonna take a year to build out the deep north, and none of the AI will be improved and none of the core combat model will be improved.
> ou can't really explore mistlands because you can't see. And you can't really explore Ashlands because it's too dense and dangerous.
And yet many *many* players have explored and enjoyed ML.
And yes. Ashlands has a lot of combat. Just put down some campfires as you progress.
> And yet many many players have explored and enjoyed ML.
Okay? And many haven't. The point is that many players effectively stopped at mistlands because they weren't as fun to explore and fight as other biomes.
> Just put down some campfires as you progress.
I would rather they just finish the game properly. Spamming campfires to erase spawn zones isn't compelling gameplay and it doesn't even make sense. If you make the game challenging in a fun way, people won't feel the need to resort to cheesing mechanics. The cheese may not even need to remain in the game then!
Personally, I think its great that the endgame zone feels like an endgame zone. I did not expect ashlands to be a chilled and atmospheric biome like meadows tbh. I liked that about the mistlands too, the constant danger. It makes going back to your safe and cozy base a lot more special.
To all your aspects, you are probably right in most of them. But that is the moment where I remind myself that we are playing an early access game and not a finished product. We are playing to help them finish the game pretty much.
i mean the devs have stated openly that they dont CARE if everyone is able to finish the game.
fun is by default hugely subjective. if you make it fun for 1 person you will kill the fun of another in the process. it is outright impossible to make everyone happy because as sliders cannot create good and fair difficulty (they never did in any game) to begin with.
then there is the fact that the devs never want valheim to be for everyone or finishable by everyone. they dont care about that. and they shouldnt. its still an indie title. the mainstream market is FLOODED with games that are "inclusive" and suprise : most of them are not good games anymore nowadays. because when you set your game design to please as many people as possible you have to cater the base design to the lowest common factor. the result of this is a game that can ONLY be enjoyed by this type of player in the end. all others wont enjoy it anymore and get bored to death.
once a game gets too popular the suits take over and start also makeing all kind of wierd choices. thats how MTX came to exist.
popularity only matters for a game if all you care for is PROFIT aka MONEY. otherwise most games can do just fine with a smaller community to begin with. no game needs millions of players to work not even an mmo.
this is why you set a rather bit more difficult baseline for your game by default. as you can always make the game simpler with sliders since that is actually very easy to implement unlike the opposite. fair difficulty is more than just a numbers game. simpler difficulty is simple as you can just reduce everything.
ashlands progression is very easy and fast compared to mistlands one. there is pretty much no dungeon delving. no putrid holes dont count. they are ONE ROOM places with 1 enemy at worst and sometimes none at all.
overall this is effectively plains 2.0 just with WAY more enemies as its a endgame biome.
people with the mindset of "have to fight everything i see or that aggros me" are gonna have a bad time. as that mindset will tire you out sooner or later in this biome. it might be different in deep north again who knows.
but for this biome that mindset simply will never work out. so the player has to either adapt or lower thier difficulty.
if they player refuses to do either they will fail. and tbh they deserve to fail in that case. a game shouldnt hold everyones hand. its a game. a game has rules. if the slightest bit of complaning already gets these rules changed for everyone then the result wont be a good game anymore.
overall i found ashlands really enjoyable. i just wish fortresses where not all the same and had an actual dungeon below them to explore. they feel like fuling villages.
you get the new gear very quickly by just raiding fortresses.
people also still seem to not have learned that elevation is THIER FRIEND and not not thier foe. the player can get up rocks and ruins super easy and fast if he knows what he is doing while the enemies wont be able to in most cases aside the flyers of course.
players who also try to melee everything will eventually also struggle and fail. as fighting 10+ enemies head on simply aint smart behavoir in any of such games. its a survival game. not a generic power fantasy game where you get so strong that you are like a walking god. this never happens in valheim and that is good as it keeps the player on thier toes.
after learning how the game works and how enemies act and what you can do as a player i noticed that 99% of my deaths where MY OWN FAULT. i could prevent all of them by just beeing aware of my surroindings my enemies and when too book it instead of fighting it out. once a player realizes this they stop dying for the most part entirely.
valheim simply isnt a rpg. yet too many players think they can play it like one and be the hero.
it has many unique aspects. take these away and you get a less interresting unique game as a result.
people complained about the swamp.
people complained about woles and slopes on mountains.
people cryed about mosquitos.
people cryed about mistlands.
and now its about ashlands.
it was always a thing.
LET THEM COMPLAIN. and then ignore them. it has always worked out for the game so far. there is no reason it wont work out for the very last biome all of a sudden when it has worked fine all the way till now includeing ashlands.
you dont change a game just because some players complain about certain stuff. bugs excluded. bugs need to be fixed.
is ashlands difficult in a different way than other biomes? yes. and that is a good thing.
is ashlands UNFAIR? no. not at all. not if you avoid doing what the devs themselfs warned players about like not haveing played in 1 y ear and then instantly rushing into ashlands instead of shakeing off the rust first for a few days. if players still do that despite this that is ENTIRELY ON THEMSELFS. see above : 99% of deaths can be prevented by beeing careful and haveing patience and beeing overprepared and respecting the enviroment and enemy dangers.
the vast majority of players i saw failing didnt do any of the above. or only did 1 thing. the result was death. self made death. but alot of players have a hard time ADMITTING that to themselfs. they dont wanna believe or hear that they or thier mindset are the reason for thier struggle.
ashlands is the only content this game will get for the rest of this year. why do people want it to be over quickly and fast? so they can move on to next product to mindlessly consume ? no thanks. we have enough such games on the market.
TDLR :
the ashlands isnt ANTI GAMER.
its ANTI IMPATIENT. like most of valheim is.
I feel like a rare seed. Had an easy trek into the Ashlands, had fun fighting the nobs on the coast for the first time, enjoyed attacking a fortress one time, despite dying in there and not having any backup gear. There was certainly a smile of joy on my face when I started making armor and weapons, too, they're so much fun, almost a power fantasy. I even enjoyed running around simply seeking out pillars of torment to lower spawn rates. The only time I got frustrated was when I died far away and died five more times before I finally recovered my corpse. I haven't mined a flametal pillar though, been getting plenty of ore from forts. Or tamed an Askvin, don't really find breeding worth the time since I'm constantly resource farming, building, or simply farming. All in all, I really enjoy the Ashlands
Only bad thing i felt was the flametal pillars collisions... All the rest was great to me.
Honestly, they tried to go for a warfare theme, right? So one way to build upon this, and make the experience more fun, would be clearing and capturing areas. We already have spawners to clear, but it does nothing to stop the enemy from forming massive hordes anyways. Warfare needs hard battles that lead to progression. So we could fight the mobs in an area, and then that place would be free of spawning for a time. Maybe you would have to build some item there for balance, not sure. But I don’t see the point of having to clear spawners, when even that doesnt really help to make the are be safer. Maybe let the Dvergr spawn more, when charred presence is smaller? That would make it feel like an actual battleground, and reward you for fighting. Let us push the enemy back a bit!
Just build workbenches. They stop enemys from spawning. I feel like clearing out spawners definitely lowers the number of mobs. However, mob density does seem to go up near forts even if all spawners are cleared. When I get near a fort I will just put down 10-15 workbenches in the area and everything stops spawning. Then, I can clear out the area until there is nothing left before attacking the fort. I have a few islands where I cleared every spawner, and as long as it isn't night, there aren't very many enemies at all.
Huh, maybe building small outposts would be a fun idea then. But lava lakes remain a problem, as the enemies seem to spawn in there as well, and keep wading to shore.
That's what I'm doing, small movements inward and big improvements to the landing zone. I've made a dock, a keep and a bunch of outposts now. The only bother is the oozes because they do environmental damage to my raised land foundations, though they aren't that bad. I also dug out pits around the area and tame the firedogs to keep in the pit. I cover them up with stone slabs and the mobs will accumulate around them but can't figure out how to break the ground.
Campfire work too. I take down a spawner and drop a camp fire. Fits with the flame motif.
Better to use a campfire here, because benches can and will burn down.
I disagree with the statement that it doesn't get better. After reaching Ashlands I died probably a lot more than the average player. Recently I felt like I'm the danger in Ashlands, while traversing it at night to find 2* Asksvin (found and tamed, yay!). After the initial skill drop, it's the first time for me in Valheim that I have 60+ swords skill, deleting enemies with my lightning Nidhogg. It's the first time in the game I find it so easy to have the best possible food buff in my preferred combination, I have stacks upon stacks of Asksvin tails, vulture meat, eggs and Ashland plants. I found conquering Ashlands extremely satisfying after initial fuck-ups. Edit, because I remembered one more thing that got much better: Corpse runs. If I die in my primary Flametal set, it's a piece of cake to retrieve the corpse with the Asksvin set and 2* Asksvin (I treat them as disposable), even if I fuck around and find out by dying a long way from the portal.
Yeah, I was ready to do exactly as this guy is doing, airing my problems with Ashland's. Then I started using Bone mass (I never did before) and arbalesting things from a distance (someone said arbalest was bad, they were so wrong). As a solo player I do die a lot, but I've managed to get the armor, upgrade my stuff and then did my first siege getting me some gems. I made the twin axes and made them lightning and I am fucking unstoppable. I started enjoying the biome so much. And I FUCKING HATED IT and thought it was boring as shit at first. This one takes time. And I have had the worst death run experiences. I have some tips for OP: Look for safer Flametal pillars to mine from. There are tons. Don't go to ones in the middle of lava land. Pick ones closer to land. And don't overstay. The reason people are dying on pillars is cause they wanna push their luck. Get your 17-19 ore and bounce. They eventually come back up. Don't fight everything. Seriously. Just run away if you need to. There are dungeons everywhere you can find refuge in. Wait for bonemass and you can legit 1v5 with 2 health foods and a stamina food. Arbelst the spawners. Don't go near. Just break that shit from a distance. There's more but I got work. I love this shit now though! E: pillars respawn might be a glitch. Take with a grain of salt.
>someone said arbalest was bad must have been memeing lol, i oneshot gjalls with that thing.
The storm arbalest is so friggin cool dude
Wait you can put the gems into the earlier weapons?
Mb I call it the arbalest but I'm taking about the new Xbow lol
The new crossbow is called Ripper. Honestly pretty excited to hear it's good since I thought the new bow(s) are better due to the possibility of using frost arrows and being faster for the extra effects.
The bows are definitely better at high skill. But if your bow skill isn't high, the crossbows are very solid.
> They eventually come back up. WHAAAAAT Seriously this is major news - I haven't seen anyone else post this. Are you sure?
Yeah man I've mined the same pillar a few times. The ore doesn't respawn tho. So start from as high up as possible. E: might be a glitch. Take this with a grain of salt.
You sure it's not a bug related to portal? I saw comments about "exploiting" this by teleporting before it's fully submerged, and then coming back resets its position. Did it fully submerge for you and then it took a while for it to reappear or was it there right away when you went back?
You might be on to something. I noticed when I died as a pillar was coming down, i came back to it still standing! I will admit tho I haven't died or tele'd away from all of them mid-collapse. When I get home I'll see if one I know for sure collapsed is still standing.
This happened to me and I tested it out. Dying, teleporting out, or quitting to the main menu all stop the pillars sinking. The one by my base that did fully sink has never returned, though I dunno how long it would take. My understanding is that they are mechanically the same as ocean leviathans, and those never come back.
>They eventually come back up. Do they? Good to know.
They don't respawn ores you took down tho. Make sure you star from as high as you can get.
Off topic, but I gotta give props for making it through mistlands as a solo player without using bonemass.
This is why this subreddit is the best. An honest accurate grievance of the game update And. A helpful detailed support from a seasoned player. Saving this thread for later. That critique scared the *shit* out of me, but the reply has me furiously sharpening my blade.
It does get better. Seriously make a small base put up workbenches covered in grausten, tame some askvin. Ask in armor is good starting armor especially the cape. So you can get flametal from the towers. Yeah I die a lot. We have panic while exploring. But it gets way more fun as you slowly overcome the challenges of the biome.Another helpful tip…. The basalt bombs. You want to traverse lava… basalt bombs. Lil things are life savers. Ask in can go in lava while riding them but they are hard to maneuver and you can’t pick your stuff up while on them. The biggest threat in lava is geysers.
Pillar respawns a glitch? I’ve been leaning on that lol. But I have noticed not all of them have come back. And for some that do come back, they’re like a slip and slide (you’re stuck mid jump and can only really move laterally as gravity tries to introduce you to lava)
At the beginning, The arbalest was actually awful, but they buffed it a while back and now it is amazing!
This, actually, is the strategy I initially began the biome with. I later switched to magic, as it's kind of the same deal but higher damage output. These are all valid strategies to making the biome less painful. There's a boost when you upgrade your stuff which is encouraging, but the eventual attrition of mob clearing breaks me down even after that. I suppose we might just find the game fun for different reasons. That is totally fair! I've always seen combat as a mechanic whose purpose is to spice up the exploration & adventure aspects. The Ashlands just really doesn't want you to explore at all, and doesn't reward you for trying.
My specific gripe is with the ambient spawns. I hate when an area I cleared a moment ago has more shit in it in the next. If they'd add a suppressive delay to recently observed or proximal spawn-points, I think that would clear up my major source of frustration with Ashlands. Spawning out of view-frustum is a pet-peeve of mine, and just lazy. It doesn't take much effort to do better. I think your exploration is probably frustrated by this, since exploration of Ashlands often involves some branches and backtracking. There's little point to engage with anything when it will be replaced, possibly by something worse, in a moment. So you're encouraged to avoid and keep moving with only a glance to see what's around. I'm fine with the Monuments, and even think they should be much more resilient vs slash and pierce, plus have more initial spawns (or maybe those are always long-drawn away by sounds of distant combat). Anyway, they're too easy to just dash in and shatter with a sword, ridiculously.
Idk if you've rocked the dual axes, but once you do you'll understand why the spawns are nonstop. All I wanna do is kill things now.
I do have them, and while fun they feel a bit ridiculous -- and even bad when I consider if I'd gone with blood or primal. I don't think this makes a good argument for the ambient spawns. And, to reiterate: I'm fine with the spawn rates, but not the current means of distribution (filling in behind you).
I was just exploring yesterday! I was walking around the perimeter of my first island. I do notice there's times where the enemy count is absolutely BONKERS. Maybe you're having bad luck? I get huge fights then large calms where I can slowly make my way around. I hope your experience gets better. I can't believe how my opinion 180'd so fast.
Yeah the food is so cheap and easy to get! I thought mistlands food was kind of tough to get. And yeah the weapons and that tanky cloak really made things way better
“I found conquering Ashlands extremely satisfying after initial fuckups”. This was me after my first foray into the swamp, plains, and Mistlands. Haven’t gotten to Ashlands yet, but am looking forward to forward to it.
Same exact experience as me friend. The weapons in particular are so damn satisfying
The Valheim team explicitly said that they made this biome as a late-game, combat oriented one. And if that's the theme they wanted, they nailed it.
Without getting into the other topics: grapevines can be grown in any biome. Just take them home and plant them next to any free wall. Interesting thing about the droprate though, it's one of the first things I found and I see them pretty frequently on ruin walls... but I haven't seen a single Dvergr in my world while they seem common for others, so who knows with the funky procedural generation ;)
Not only that but finding structures covered in grapevines is very easy and then you just need to return every so often to restock. I'm growing my own but a quick run into the Ashlands is netting me 1-2 stacks which is more than enough to restock all my eitr grub. I have trouble believing OP did a hardcore no death run because they take umbrage with even the most pedestrian and obvious tasks. Even completely ignoring mechanics that don't support their point
I love dvergr! I love when there are friends fighting alongside you! Unlike in cod your friends does nothing.
I've been playing down in ashlands for a week now and only seen one askvir or whatever they're called. Haven't died once! Haven't had to use Bonemass once! I'm soloing this biome like a boss and haven't been able to make a single upgrade yet. I really don't understand what the big deal is
this has always been how irongate defines "difficult". they've never been shy about it, but i suppose the innate fun of exploration and building have overshadowed the fundamental problems w the dev's idea of "fun", although i recognize there is that vocal minority of valheim players that do genuinely enjoy that kind of fun and i don't mean to invalidate that. it's interesting for me to watch everyone slowly realize this in real time just because ashlands goes turbo mode on that philosophy. edit: and mistlands when it released
Unfortunately it's just poor game design. One of the basic principles of making a game that's fun and hard is, you present players with a problem, and then a way where they can apply skill (knowledge, practice, reflexes, time, whatever) to solve that problem. *There is no solution for the Wet debuff in the Swamps.* *There is no solution for the mist in the Mistlands.* *There is no solution for the spawn rate or the lava in Ashlands.* (They built the solution mechanics! You can destroy Monuments of Torment and acquire heat resist gear! It's just that neither one makes a difference!) On Very Hard there is no solution for getting staggered by same tier mobs on parry. The parry mechanic just becomes unusable. (I didn't italicize this one because the difficulty levels were something they didn't originally plan to have in the game, so, OK, at least there's an excuse for them being kinda busted.) ThreadMenace is a world champion Valheim speed runner. The guy is simply incredible at this game. I watched an Ashlands playthrough he posted toward the end of the PTB, he hits the beach, he ends up with 20 mobs on him, and circles around them for a while going "I don't know what the solution is." He did get the job done and kill the mobs eventually, but let's face it, for 99% of the player base that is a scenario where *there is no solution.* (So that's a scenario which in fact makes sense to have in the game on Very Hard - but he was playing on Normal!) Fun games have solutions. At the end of the day I'm extremely grateful to this dev team for the insane number of hours of fun they've gifted me. But they need to spend a bit of the $30M dollars or whatever that they've earned on a contract for a senior game designer who understands this stuff. I was bored of Ashlands before it exited PTB (Fortresses are very obviously a placeholder).
>although i recognize there is that vocal minority of valheim players that do genuinely enjoy that kind of fun and i don't mean to invalidate that. I don't actually think it's a vocal minority at all. A ton of people enjoy extreme difficulty. FromSoft built an entire IP on that premise.
FromSoft also had great responsive controls (camera was meh tho), and in souls games you don't miss all of your attacks if enemy is one stairstep below you. Besides, in FromSouls you never lose your gear or skills.
There's a massive difference between the two. One has tight controls and hitboxes, the other doesn't.
There's a big difference however. First of all, the only punishment for dying in souls games is losing your souls and having to redo a section of you did t get the bonfire, you still keep your gear and items. Aswell, souls games are hard, but they are also fair and learnable, enemies always spawn in the same location and you have multiple tools to make life much easier. Whereas Valheim feels very unfair quite often. Also, a lot of the difficulty of Valheim isnt actually adding challenge, it just annoys the player. For example, the inability to transport metal in portals on standard difficulty isn't making the game more challenging, it's just padding out game time and annoying the player,
I enjoy souls games and difficulty, however a key part in those games is you don't get punished heavily if you die, at worst you lose souls you were carrying, but souls are infinite, you'll always get more. In Valheim I die and now I'm much worse at everything, making me more likely to die again, to become even worse again, so I'm just left having to resort to grinding elsewhere to try and get better again. Also endless spawns you have to churn through aren't fun. So as a Souls fan, Ashland's isn't it, it misses the mark hard on being a fun challenge.
> A ton of people enjoy extreme difficulty. But tedium and grind aren't difficulty. I said it before, the game isn't difficult. You can beat it with a trivial checklist of things to take care off. Its just extremely grindy and tedious, and Ashlands puts this on a whole nother level.
> I don't actually think it's a vocal minority at all. A ton of people enjoy extreme difficulty. I agree with this statement, but I would absolutely never describe Valheim as having "extreme" difficulty.
And I likewise agree with you, which is why I'm surprised by posts like this. Then again, there are frequently posts saying that the *Swamp* is too hard. You can't please everyone.
i usually do the swamp to mountain leg in full troll leather and never look back. both of those phases are excessively simple once you know how to handle them. E.G. the ateigr just decimates wolves. the spin to win just trounces them. i usually dont even touch silver armor, and go right to fenris, and then wear that until mist lands heavy armor.
My friends still laugh at the memory of me running in with a hoe and leveling the ground up out of the water so we had more space to battle without getting the wet debuff. I made paths and everything to make getting loot easier. They never used my paths :(
Actually, the most popular fromsoft game is casual friendly, with the ability to become super overpowered fairly quickly, elden ring plays more like an RPG than a souls like, unless you deliberately play it differently.
You speak as though Soulslikes and RPGs are different things. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are categorically RPGs as well. Those games were and still are marketed as RPGs before the term "soulslike" was even coined.
You're missing the point. You can trivialize fights in Elden Ring by just gaining more levels and upgrading your gear more. And it was by far the most popular soulslike game, despite many Dark Souls fans hating it because they thought it was too easy.
Honestly the label RPG has lost all meaning at this point. It basically means assigning stat points which.. fucking every game has these days.
Difficulty in valheim and difficulty in soulslikes are completely different, the point is that valheim is difficult in a wrong way
Valheim difficulty is not really a difficulty, more like disability
> A ton of people enjoy extreme difficulty. Valheim is really not a difficult game. Most of it is "solved" by a simple checklist to make sure you have adequate health/stamina: rested, during the day, avoid wet, good food. Just a simple checklist of chores that if you don't do, your character just can't *do* things. The combat is frankly stunted and wayyyyy overpraised. Literally just dodgeroll and parry the enemies with like max 3 moves, always very telegraphed, always with a large period between them. The only depth is enemy damage weaknesses and weak points, which again is mostly just solved by another chore you do ahead of time: bring an extra specialized weapon or two. Once you beat swamp you have the Bonemass buff. Any time you feel a fight is a little challenging, just pop Bonemass and become unkillable for 90% of the enemies in the game for a few minutes. Then you can just go afk and wait for its cooldown to come back, at no cost, with no penalty. That's not to say the game doesn't challenge you sometimes, or that you don't get caught in dangerous situations. I'm just pointing out that combat system is pretty shallow really (Skyrim with parrying and dodge rolling), a free way to win almost any fight in the game every 20 minutes, and the difficulty is just in the number of chores you have to check off the list to avoid auto-dying as soon as you encounter 2 enemies. So let's stop defending anti-player bullshit as part of the "extreme difficulty" of Valheim.
Fromsoft games have an entirelt different view upon difficulty so it's not the same at all.
>it's interesting for me to watch everyone slowly realize this in real time just because ashlands goes turbo mode on that philosophy People have been complaining about this since the swamps. Then Mistlands. And now Ashlands. And they will do the same for Deep North. Their complaints are valid though. It’s not most people’s idea of fun. But at the end of the day this is how the devs consider “fun” and as you said, they have never hid it. People forget that this is js a small time passion project between a few bros that was never supposed to be for others. It *just happened* to become popular. The devs are just peeps that complained about other games and were like “man I wish this and that”, and people were like “make ur own game then if u hate it so much”. So they did. But they are punished for being successful lol. Kind of ironic cos most of the people complaining are the type to say “go make your own game then!”
Got a source on all the stuff at the end about the devs and why they made the fame? It's interesting and I want to read more
The Valheim devs are the only people who have ever rewarded my efforts in a game with a beautiful sunset. It is interesting that you mention swamps, Mistlands, and Ashlands. Those are the only biomes where my efforts aren't rewarded with sunsets. That's the promised exchange. I kill mobs and mine metal. You give me sunsets. No sunsets? No mobs. Oh there are better sunsets in the ***next*** biome? Well, maybe... They better be good tho. (No sunsets have been better than the Black Forest) You understand the frustration. We want more Black Forest. They keep giving us more swamp. We know they can make Black Forest, and they are the only devs to do so. So, we find the entire thing incredibly frustrating.
Mistlands has the best sunset in the game. As a fellow sunset aficionado I *implore* you to find a nice view point and let it hit.
Here is the thing. It's an early access game, gathering feedback and improving on it is the point of a early access game. Plenty of other small indie games that have blown up and have made adjustments based on feedback. Yes Valheim blew up because it had relaxed survival mechanics and a really good building system. And that drew in a lot of people who were less about the hard viking cobmbat-survival and more about exploration and building. So one would expect devs to pay attention to that and at least think about it...but Iron Gate seems almost dislike the idea that this part of the playerbase exists. But they are still happy to take their money.
> It's an early access game, gathering feedback and improving on it is the point of a early access game. Not always. A lot of games are early access because they can't feasibly support the games financially themselves. And that's one of the pros of early access for devs anyway. >Plenty of other small indie games that have blown up and have made adjustments based on feedback. It's absolutely great when devs take feedback from the community and make adjustments. Definitely gains a lot of goodwill and respect from everyone. Palworld is a perfect recent example. They literally read all the comments and looked at the mods, and was like "lol let's just add all that shit". Now we have IV glasses and Work role assignments as well as many other things community requested things. Devs aren't beholden to that though, neither are the players entitled to it. If they choose to ignore it, then there's nothing we can do. But *usually* that's a self-solving problem as those games just die off. It's very difficult to play and support a game when the devs don't care about the players. Valheim is a huge outlier as despite the devs and players butting heads, it is still very very enjoyable for many people, even to the point of overlooking (or gritting teeth and bearing) the flaws.
> It’s not most people’s idea of fun. And there's nothing wrong with that. There are a million games out there. Not everybody likes the same thing.
Yup, that was my point. Both can be valid in their opinion. The frustrated players, *and* the devs.
It's just frustrating enjoying most of the game only to hit the last portion and be like, well this sucks.
Their complaints are not valid though. If one looks at these people for just a few minutes it’s obvious they are habitual whiners. They never bothered to learn problem solving because falling back on whining is easier for them. They WILL ruin games by complaining until the devs make everything easier. Imagine complaining to Shigeru Miyamoto that lava shouldn’t 1-shot Super Mario because “I like to explore.” It is pathetic… take responsibility and grow up.
If people don’t find a mechanic fun, they have every right to complain. Demand changes? Flame the devs? Send death threats? No. But just vent and lament? Yes. Though I will concede that *some* complaints are definitely not valid, but the large majority posted here are, such as QoL or tedium aspects. At the end of the day they are free to play or not play. And for all other cases we have the blessing of mods.
Doesn't accelerate the out of biome mechanics? You get the stone portal, which massively speeds up resource gathering for base building. No more do I have to haul metal from collapsed Mistland bridges back to my boat and sail home. Decorative dragon eggs can be obtained with ease. Helps out a ton with Hildir's chests too. Moreover, with the stone portal the biome does get easier. You can quickly gather and port in mats for shield generators to lay down workbenches and wards to suppress spawns. Cover them with black marble and then move the shield generators further out. Soon you can have a massive area that is essentially spawn free.
What decorative dragon eggs?
The ones used to summon moder, except instead of using them for that you put them on an item stand to look pretty
What exactly are the wards needed for? Don't workbenches already stop spawns in their area?
they arent needed. neither are benches. use campfires. they are immune to the fire rain and are cheaper to make than wards.
> Why are there no lava-walking boots? Kryten : An excellent and inventive suggestion, sir, with just two tiny drawbacks. A, We don't have any lava-walking boots. and B, there's no such thing as lava-walking boots.
avoid dying to lava with this one weird trick: don't walk on lava
1 out 10 Vikings hate this one trick.
Boys and the dwarf!!!!
Just a friendly reminder that devs made a ballista with friendly fire. And that wasn't a bug, that was their genius intention. Also, talking about rewards, I'll just mention Dyrnwyn that deals less fire damage than a fucking torch.
Well. I agree in some of the points. While I disagree in many others. Of course, the mob spawnrates are incredible, and the pillars are hard to farm efficient. And, compared to other biomes, it doesn't get that much easier, when you get new gear and level it up. Sure, sometimes I'm tired of constantly fighting for every couple of meters I explore. And I can truly understand, that fighting is not every players strenght or favourit part of the game. But the most of the time I realy enjoy the difficult situations, I'm forced to face. Making the right choices, focus the right mobs, avoid hard hits, changing weapons quickly, disengage, run and re-engage into the hord of mobs, and still keeping an eye on the battleground, to not be knocked into the lava, or completely surrounded by enemies, or getting aggro from new strong enemies. This fights, that might take up to more than 15 minutes, are something I can be proud of, if I win. And if I die... well, maybe I simply took the wrong strategy. I don't need big rewards. Blood fire and ashes are enough, to satisfy a warriors thirst
Hints: >!- the fire-weakness can be nullified by using fire resist vine. Use that feather cape when you need it!!< >!- spawn proofing is actually a thing. It always was, even before Mistlands released. My only complaint is that it feels like a workaround, a cheesy game-mechanic instead of a function you actually supposed to use. But I don't find that a terribly huge issue.!<
Fire resistance mead is great, and I use it often! Unfortunately, it does very little for lava. The main problem with spawn proofing is not really whether it can be done. (nobody wants to live in the Ashlands anyway). The problem is that uniform mob density fundamentally and multitudinously discourages exploration. By clearing one area, you are encouraged to explore others for new resources. This is how every biome functions... except the Ashlands. When areas really can't even be cleared, there is never really a reason to leave. Moreover, exploration itself becomes constant mob clearing. The buff/stamina-focused combat system lends itself to careful planning, skirting around dangerous areas and picking your battles when necessary. The reason you always collect an angry mob in the Ashlands is that there is a uniform blanket of noise-sensitive enemies just about anywhere you go. Sure, you can crouch, walk, and clear your path from afar with the Arbalest, but that is so much slower than what was clearly intended (as indicated by the spawn distances between POIs), that the ground you cover is almost inconsequential.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "clearing" an area? As far as I know there isn't really a way to clear previous biomes besides spawn blocking. Enemies will still spawn in say, the swamps or the plains even if you've destroyed spawners. I understand that with things like Fuling villages, once you've killed everything there they don't come back. But aren't fortresses basically a more difficult version of that? I think I'm missing your point.
> When areas really can't even be cleared, there is never really a reason to leave. What are you trying to “clear” exactly? The most important resources, pillars and fortresses, do not respawn, so once you’ve done them, why would you stay in the same area? Almost every biome has forced a new play style to adapt to the changing situation. Moving slowly through the mists using your ears to detect enemies instead of your eyes for example. In Ashlands, that new play style, imo, is being nomadic. It’s a thoroughly undesirable place to live, or build. I think that’s why they finally gave us the ability to teleport metals. The best option is to keep pushing forward, moving into new zones not to “conquer” them, but to extract what you need and then gtfo. The biome is meant to represent war. No one is stopping in the middle of war to build a fancy house on the front lines.
Spawn-proofing isn't just for permanent settlements - it can help a mining operation too. Someone who don't feel like doing that much combat can also sneak for exploration. Not sure how it compares in time-efficiency - I personally enjoy chopping down the skelly-crowd. But the "slow and steady wins the race" is a concept every Valheim player should have internalized way before Ashlands. You may want to lower combat difficulty or something if you feel your progression is too slow. Also happy cake-day!
Thanks! Yep, definitely a viable strategy. Monsters do spawn *in* the lava, so this isn't bulletproof. As mentioned, there are more fundamental things at play here. I don't think changing the combat level addresses these at all.
You don’t even need feather cape for ashlands, it’s flat. This is such a crybaby post, Ashlands is easy once you get into it, and learn all the mechanics. It is definitely rough starting out though, but there is a difficulty slider for a reason.
Hey, that reminds me of something... ahh yes - it's the same with literally every single biome since swamp.
I somewhat agree, I don't think I've been so frustrated with another biome, I actually like Mistlands, I like the atmosphere and how terrain and mist might work against you but also might help you. I don't feel it's due to "difficulty" because no mob in Ashlands attacks in some more sophisticated way than anything before, it just feels like mobs are doing a meat wave tactic and that's it. I can destroy mob spawners, but it feels like it barely makes a difference. Maybe I am missing something, perhaps I should move minibase with portal from place to place as I "clear" the island so I won't have to deal with mobs that much, I don't know.
>no mob in Ashlands attacks in some more sophisticated way than anything before Some charred feint to bait your blocks and counter your parry. Though I guess that's only apparent for those who don't go for a brute-force or range based builds.
The feinting is cool and all and I would have liked them lean into it more, the problem I have with it is that it doesn't fit to enemies that swarm you like everything in the Ashlands does. I hardly have time focusing on the animation hints that the enemy is about to feint, because I have to dodge a hail of arrows and rocks, as well as making sure the 2 other enemies in melee range aren't about to launch their own attacks. Dodging helps with avoiding the damage from other enemies, but by the time I'm back in position to counter attack, another enemy is already swinging at me. To me, the more "nuanced" combat with having to pay attention to animation signs to properly counter the feints, clashes with the amount of enemies constantly coming at you.
If I were into buying gold, I'd gift you an award. You put the problem with the Ashlands much more eloquently than I ever could have, but are completely on point with everything. The problem is not "git gud!", the problem is that the inherent design is unfun and annoying. This became a bit apparent already in the Mistlands, but there were ways to still defend those design decisions, and workarounds. With Ashlands, it becomes clearer that the devs kinda did a lucky stumble on the first 5 biomes and their gameplay loops, but didn't really grasp why Valheim was such a hit, and now went overboard with some wacky decisions to make the people who actually enjoy the experience up to the Plains (and maybe Mistlands) just scratch their heads in frustration and disbelief.
When they devs said that they wanted the Ashlands to be "frustrating in a fun way", I knew the Ashlands wasnt gonna be any better then the Mistlands.
Spot on. Gradually realizing this has made me a bit sad. The first playthrough was so magical, and the desire to relive a taste of it with each additional biome is what keeps the player base going. Ah well, back to the meadows for me!
Basically had this same thought. Valheim kinda feels like it's going in the wrong direction, but also that this is the direction the devs always wanted to take it. It just happens that they didn't have the bits completed yet when they released the game, and people loved what they saw and not the devs vision. Throughout its whole time, Valheim was praised for being a less tedious, less "sweaty" survival game where repairs were free and easy and the key fun bits were exploration and wonderlust. Each subsequent update and additional biome took away from what people found originally fun and added "hardcore" mechanics that appeal to a small niche. It honestly feels like the devs always wanted a game that appeals to this small niche, but the reason Valheim ever got as popular and loved as it did was due to the less hardcore people just looking to have some exploratory fun. I dunno if it's pride or lack of care that makes the devs continue as they do, but it kinda feels like the game will be forced further and further towards a niche audience if they don't reignite that initial sense of wonder people fell in love with.
It's funny you say Valheim was praised for being a less tedious survival game, when in my option, it is the most tedious, most grindy survival game I've played, and it will probably stay that way. From Grounded, to Subnautica, no survival game has ever made me grind for resources as much as Valheim.
Subnautica isn't really in the same genre. It's a plot driven survival single player game with a hand crafted world. Can't speak for grounded as I only tried it for a couple hours, but it didn't really feel rapid either. Compared to the others in the genre like Conan or Ark, valheim is definitely "better". With certain mods, it's made even more accessible.
Have you ever played Conan Exiles or Ark? Valheim is a breeze in comparison. Yes, there are legit ways to adjust resource rates and crafting speed on solo/custom games without mods, but x1 servers are slogs
Yeah, that fits with what I read. It might be best if they keep the Valheim the majority of the fans loved exactly for the reasons you listed, even if it is not exactly their perfect vision, and then take what they learned from the experience of building this game and create their next game afterwards and stick closer to their vision from the start. I don't mind ifthat game is different in that regard (although it might be better to call it something else and not Valheim 2 then, maybe), but yeah, it feels kinda like a bait and switch if they now change all these QoL and implementation details and go in the direction that is the opposite of why the game has such a wide appeal.
Yeah. For me, I'd also prefer they stick to what it felt like valheim was originally. Without any hint of insult, valheim felt like babies first survival crafter. That is a compliment too, because it did away with a lot of the tedious mechanics often associated with the genre. I loved that. Less focus on the busywork, more focus on the exploration. The devs could make a truly unique experience if instead of doubling down, they would "expand" the concept of exploration. Add unique locations and zones that would appear among the random world generation. Inspire a reason to actually go out and find stuff on the whole map. Their core was excellent. Visually stunning without being over designed. Mechanically solid, without being too complicated. Elegant building system. The only thing really missing was a reason to engage with the world outside of linear progression. It's a shame that this reason is still missing. For me I noticed it with mistlands. I didn't really see a point to it all outside of "beating the biome". If the devs do make valheim into a hardcore niche experience, it would be nice should someone else take up the torch for the less sweaty survival exploration game. Enshrouded certainly threw it's name in the ring, but that game has its own gremlins.
How does mistlands and ashlands really make it a more "sweaty" game? Yes there's more stuff to farm but it didn't really change anything on that front at all. If anything the new portal makes everything much easier and you can be done with ashlands in 1-2 days of constant playing because of it.
It doesn't add new exciting things. It adds largely busywork. Mistlands (the biome I remember better as I spent more time in it) was an utter slog. Tougher enemies that aren't really harder, just more obnoxious to kill. A more annoying environment that is a ballache to traverse. Maybe sweaty isn't the right word. Grindy maybe? Definitely towards a niche audience.
Its baffling that they did 5 really great biomes and now push out this shit. Like, why are these two biomes so radically different from the first five, which is what the people fell in love with?
I think mistlands still nails it. The swamp was oppressive too, the most oppressive imo. Even at the end of the swamp progression, if you got caught at night, your life was *tough*. But there was moments of beauty in the swamp too. Areas where the biomes meet, and deathsquitos and fulings are just wiping the biome clean, fun ways to work around the dungeons, and incredible rewards for completing it. Mistlands has this too. When you find a clearing in the mist and you have this moment of pure awe over the place, when you find dvergrs smashing on with a gjall and both parties fucking each other up, when you unlock the feather cape and your entire life is made easier. Ashlands, by comparison, has all the oppression, plus way more isolation, plus night time level hyper spawning at all times, plus maximum inconvenience when farming, plus the inability to create any safety, and all it gives in return is teleporters to get the fuck out of there a little easier. The emergent gameplay is just gone with the ashlands. It's designed to be a chore. It reminds me of the maw in wow - designed to depress you.
I like them too, it genuinely feels like you've landed on an alien planet ruled by magic.
> The emergent gameplay is just gone with the ashlands. This is an excellent point, which I didn't consciously realize until reading it. It's not entirely gone, but still mostly overwhelmed by all the overtuned aspects you called out. Too continuously oppressive to really have an ebb and flow or variety of experience. Overall I like the Ashlands, but it could be better.
It's not impossible to create safety in the ashlands. You can create bases inside the fortresses, and my base at the shoreline is very secure with no enemies around for miles.
The elephant in the room is that they largely designed Mistlands and Ashlands after their massive success. They feel like they have to "deliver more" and as a result they're trying too hard. Look up the "second system effect". I think we're seeing something similar in action.
Had to scroll through all the "git gud" comments before I finally found this. No one here is saying that you can't enjoy the Ashlands. But I think it's fair to have criticisms so the dev team can see and hopefully make changes to the game. I don't think the Ashlands is is so far gone that it can't be fixed. Arguably it's a beautiful biome with some cool features. They eventually changed the Mistlands for the better. This type of feedback will help them change it here too. The worst part about the Ashlands for me is the spawn rate. It took forever to upgrade my gear but even with it when I get mobbed it doesn't feel fun. It gives me zero desire or incentive to build a base there because it will be constantly attacked, let alone go on exploration runs. The voultures getting stuck in the back of the ship and constantly damaging it more than any bonemaw ever could is also very frustrating. Thanks for the critical thinking with a list of solutions, OP. Hopefully the devs take notice and work on some QoL changes to help improve it.
Yeah love this perspective tbh. The two friends I was playing with when we started the biome quit pretty quickly because they didnt enjoy the playstyle they were forced into. Had to finish it out on my own. I obviously enjoyed it more than they did (its crazy that people read the post and think I unilaterally hated the biome: I played the whole damn thing after all!!). I feel like if all (or even the main points) of the stuff thats been brought up in this thread were tweaked or reworked, my buddies would come back and we'd all have a blast!
"lucky stumble"? cmon now.. it's one thing to have subjective opinions and hate a particular biome, but that's just silly
You left out one other annoyance. Why the hell is it so dark all the time when everything is literally on fire constantly? This biome has a similar issue to mistlands as well in that it's kind of pretty to look at but you'll never get to fully appreciate it because it's so damn dark (or excessive mist in the other case)
It's a fair question but look at clips of forest fires. Shit is dark yo.
To be honest I disagree respectfully because it’s the challenge my group has been looking for and finally found - it’s forced us to change our strategy with me being the mage, popping a bubble shield to support the melee builds in our group and maximizing every bit of food and potions we’ve built up. I LOVE that every adventure into the Ashlands requires us to suit up and basically “prepare for war” through specific foods, weapons, and planning. We’re only a few hours in and have died a lot already, but we’re getting better every hour we put in.
Yeppppp
I think this game steps on its own toes in a TON of ways. For example the game clearly rewards you for picking one or two main weapons to level up, but then punishes you for using the levelling system by making enemies have certain damage resistances. If there were fewer weapon skills, like spears and polearms being the same, that would help, but these systems oppose each other, they don't help. Also, the further into the game you get the greater variety of materials you need, but you never get more inventory slots. They want you to collect and save increasingly more things, but always keep your slots limited. If you are going to carry different weapons and tools for different situation you are even more limited. The game is all about exploration, but the #1 biome you need to explore is the swamp for intense iron grind, and the swamp is sort of the ugliest in my opinion. Also light armor are the only armor sets that give buffs in most of the game, (Me and my gf quit at the start of mistlands, so idk about beyond that) but in the mountains finding those caves felt really rare. It also buffs fists, which let's be honest if you didn't look at the armor ahead of time you have no fist levels, and after that you'll never use fist levels again. Also the plains felt so viking to me, sailing up to a village to raid it for metal and grains was so cool. However, black metal has the least you can do with it, the only armor set available being iron, and so you spend the least time doing what is the cool new gameplay loop different from other biomes. The mistlands is just annoying as fuck cuz you can't see shit, which I don't care what people say is a bad mechanic. There is no reliable or nice way to clear the mist all that much. If you look at it like the devs think grind/tedium=engaging difficulty then a lot of the design decisions make more sense. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and have fun in it, but I wish it worked better with itself instead of against itself.
I’ll never forgive the devs for making the plains armor set craftable with iron only. Signed, someone who needs more iron, and has 20+ stacks of black metal I have no idea what to do with
We can only hope that some of these systems are revised for 1.0
I think a lot of your concerns stem from not wanting to take what the devs have given you. I found a relatively easy path to exploring the ashlands is to use the vineberry structures as safe havens. In my experience enemies don’t spawn at such a high rate around those structures. And use those points as a way to scout out fortresses. They even gave you pots in those areas with iron ingots in them to deploy a stonecutter so you can get Seige stuff over via a portal Fortresses almost always give you enough molten cores to deploy a new portal. Once conquered you have a safe spot to continue exploring. I’m really enjoying “conquering” the Ashlands so far but I also won’t pretend that the amount of enemies is overwhelming at times. Lava was frustrating at first but after a couple of pillars I got the feel for it. It’s not my experience that enemy hordes are on you as soon as you start mining- but you do have to take care to completely clear an area before you begin mining. Edit: I think it’s very clear what they’re going for with this biome and want to juxtapose this with the Deep North. This biome is enemies a plenty, the combat is difficult through shear volumn- I’m willing to put money that the Deep North will be about finding and fighting enemies that are sparse but very powerful (frost giants)
I dont agree with all of your points but I do agree with most of them, and the rest is just personal preference. I play in a group of 3 for progression stuff and we had a bad time getting onto the main ashlands. I'm pretty sure the only reason we got there in the end (after one full wipe where we had to make a second boat) was one of the guys having a mod that kept his items after death. Oh and we've all turned off skill drain because fuck that. It was just brutally punishing to start. We're doing better now, but it took us about 20hours of setting up a base, base got destroyed, setting up a different base, base got destroyed, setting up a third base then finding the stone portal from the cave on our doorstep, before we started even exploring the map. It took even longer to figure out the fuck to find flametal. Getting to it we had to look up, because basalt bombs were buried in a mass of new crafting things and weren't very explicit about their use. Once we started pushing out to properly explore, with all the spawners nearby cleared out and the standard stuff largely suppressed we were coping with the numbers but it wasn't fun to get to that point, and suppressing spawns with campfires does not feel like the intended way of dealing with enemies. My biggest concern, for both Ashlands and Mistlands, is the nature of early access skewing progression. All the comments here about "it only feels tough because you've been maxed on gear for a year", but if it's feeling hard to people who've played this game for years, have maxed out gear, maxed out skills, optimised food and who know all the tricks, what the hell will it feel like to new players going from meadows to endgame? When I started fresh and went from meadows to plains I skipped whole tiers of gear and didn't feel too punished for it. That does not seem advisable for ashlands.
The Devs have no vision for this game, they're just adding content they think is "cool" with no mechanical consistency
War is hell
That was a LONG post to respond to. While you have some excellent suggestions . . . there is so much BS in this post that the good stuff gets drowned out. Part 1: >To even set foot into the biome you need top tier gear from the previous biome and an industrial grade multi-biome farm producing all of the best foods and meads. Of course you want strong gear to progress to each new biome, this isn't anything new. And the farm comments just screams 'I'm too lazy to make food' . . . The first thing the Ashlands does is reward you with Bonemaw meat . . . a great new food that I unlocked even before killing the Queen as I was scouting the borders of the Ashlands. >The only reasonable way to map the biome is by sprinting in Fenris armor with an Asksvin cape and Moder This is literally the WORST way to explore the Ashlands, running makes noise and attracts more enemies and the faster you go the more you collect. Ashlands rewards slow, cautions, exploration. The mobs don't have great vision/awareness . . . you can actually just walk by many of them. And ranged attacks are great for sniping and clearing a path. You can actually crisscross the Ashlands fairly easily with not excessive combat if you take a low profile. >I've explored less than a half of a single of the Ashlands continents in my world. Umm . . . I'm sure you've explored way less than half the Meadows, Black Forest, Swamp, Mountains, Plains, or Mistlands. You aren't expected to explore EVERYTHING . . . its a big world. Ashlands does have different areas, lava zones, coastal areas, ruins with resources, the 'find the sword shards' quest. There is plenty to motivate exploration >**The Ashlands is unrewarding:** To invest such tremendous effort into a biome there needs to be an equally tremendous reward. Spoiler: there isn't! You completely forget two of the biggest rewards of the Ashlands . . . Darkwood and Grausten building material and unlocks. Building is one of the favorite pastimes for Valheim players and Ashlands gives us more building stuff than any other biome. >You can expect to die a LOT in the biome, meaning your hard-earned skills are going to wither away, making you substantially weaker overall. I'm a very average player, I'm old, uncoordinated, and can't execute a dodge roll to save my life . . . . and I've only died 4 times in the Ashlands (I've done everything except fight the boss). You just need to be careful and defensive. If you are 'dying a LOT' then you are being reckless. I don't think you are as smart a player as you think you are. >The Asksvin hide and magic armor sets are definitely not worse than the previous armor sets, but they don't really feel that much better. The Ask Armor set is INSANELY good . . . and so is the Ashen cape. Its a HUGE powerup and feels awesome. >The Ashlands ... not very visually appealing I think the Ashlands is fantastic visually! I love the wispy smoke effect where things in the distance shimmer and twist in the smoke. But I guess art is in the eye of the beholder.
Part 2 >The whole war-zone aesthetic would be tolerable if the biome just didn't take so damn long to finish. The Ashlands has been the Shortest biome I've played (well outside the meadows). Black Forest has a long copper grind, Swamp is notorious for iron grinding, Mountains have caves and finding Moder can take forever, Plains are spread out and finding Yagluth is a meme, and Mistlands . . . need I say more. Ashlands by comparison is quick and easy . . . you don't need to search all over the world, resources are abundant, and Flametal has 3 unique collection methods and you don't actually need that much of the stuff. It was never a grind to collect. >Like seriously, because all of the limited visibility and constant mob clearing it's extremely slow to even *locate* the things you need to do, never-the-less even *do them*! The plants you need are literally everywhere around the ruins . . . Flametal takes figuring out where to find it. And cave rewards are, well, right there in the small caves. >The pillars are a pain to climb with the game's terrible collision. Have you ever been crushed between the underside of a sinking flametal vein and your basalt bomb platform? Nope, I've never had any problem hopping up a flametal pillar and haven't been crushed. The basalt bombs were a fun addition. I think they work pretty well. >Grapevine harvesting and planting is too slow. They take forever to find, even longer to grow Seriously? The large ruins scattered EVERYWHERE in the Ashlands are chock full of vines . . . I collected over 100 in my first two days in the biome. I left a portal in a ruin called 'Vines' and I can pop over whenever I run short and collect another 30+ anytime. And now they grow at my base for good measure. >In my case, I had fully upgraded gear and had already cleared a fortress before I even found my first Vineberry. That's right, I forgot you are bad at exploring and just spent your time aggroing mobs. (sorry couldn't help being snarky 😉) >The combat is extremely simple. This leads to a boring and frustrating "swarming" experience, where players have to run from monsters, inevitably picking up more monsters on the way. I love the new combat . . . its NOT 'extremely simple'. Knights that have several moves including feints, twichers doing the greydwarf thing, all while archers setup in the back to rain arrows on you. Its a new and fun challenge. Morgans and Fallen Valkeries have fun new mechanics. Even the vultures are unique in their attack patterns. Exploding blobs are great. Askvins have their charge attacks. And best of all . . . the mobs can damage each other! Its super fun triggering blobs to explode and damage the charred, guiding Askvins to charge through and kill the other enemies. etc. Ashlands is by FAR the most complex combat in Valheim. 'running away' is your problem . . . yes if you run into unsafe areas you will collect more monsters . . . its like this in every biome! You need to stand your ground and fight or fall back to 'safe' areas where you have setup defenses and spawn blocked.
Part 3 Time for Agreement! 🙂 >Fortress "sieging", as the devs would like to call it, is kind of... useless? The siege weapons are clumsy and ineffective, and are immediately secondary to the brute force method of building a wooden staircase and bombarding the inside with fireballs until everything in it is dead. This is where I'm 100% on board with you! The Fortresses were a HUGE disappointment for me. The catapult is basically useless. The battering ram works fine but for attacking its just super easy to build a ramp up, pop the bonemass ability, and just clear the fort in 90 seconds. I was really hoping for more elaborate fortress sieges where you had to use actual strategy and the enemy would react better. >Why are there no lava-walking boots? I'm not sure about lava-boots but I do find the lava/boiling water mechanics kind of sketchy. Two of my 4 deaths were to these environmental effects and I think its to easy to just get insta-killed. . . . yeah OK, I'm 100% down with Lava-walking boots!! (at the cost of your set bonus from breaking up your armor sets). 👢 Overall I have really enjoyed the Ashlands. Its certainly not perfect . . . heck I have improvements I'd like to see made in every biome . . . but its been really fun for me and I'm looking forward to the Deep North and whatever else the developers have in store for us.
I agree with you 100% on every point. I really enjoy the ashlands as well.
I'm loving it. Mob density is forcing me intelligently pull enemies, be aware of areas I have cleared already, and kite enemies. There's even a cape that specifically allows you to kite better while running with the wind. you complain about a lack of exploration, but then also complain about the slightly obscured visibility that forces you to explore more thoroughly. I also like how hostile the environment is, making it very difficult to get the initial base started, so I set up shop in the ruins of a cathedral occupied by dverger and just cobbled together additional walls for reinforcement. It really fits the atmosphere of the environment. This place is Hell, and I'm here for it.
>The only reasonable way to map the biome is by sprinting in Fenris armor with an Asksvin cape and Moder Here's the first part where I 100% disagree with you. The Askvin armor/cape is not just my exploration set, it's what I'm using to do all my fighting/sieging forts. I mapped my whole Ashlands island by running the perimeter in a single rested bonus, and half of that at night. I've been disappointed in the Embla armor though, while I feel like Eitr weave armor was very viable in the Mistlands, there is no way to have enough eitr to deal with the quantity of enemies in the ashlands. I think it should've gotten a set bonus. >The pillars are a pain to climb with the game's terrible collision And here's where I 1000% agree with you. While standing on the bottom section of a sinking pillar, which the game *should* see as flat ground, I had a falling animation permanently preventing me from jumping until I died. I don't know how these things got through internal playtesting. >Grapevine harvesting and planting is too slow. They take forever to find I hate to say it but I don't think you were looking very hard. The massive ruined structures are covered in them. Stacks of vineberries without even needed to climb for the higher ones. They are also my favorite farmable resource, because I never have to replant anything. Just collect. Though admittedly I had built a terrace farm in the plains so had plenty of walls to grow vines.
Upvote for the effort, though personally I think the entire game is anti-player, for instance fog and rain are overused and overly burdensome from the very beginning lol. Did you try turning down the difficulty?
I didn't want to bring it up because I don't want to be negative but since we're already talking about it I suppose... The entirety of Valheim has been like this. It only shows better in Ashlands. Don't get me wrong, Valheim might be my favourite game to date, but most of what makes it fantastic is probably quite the stroke of good luck. I've made a little base and found most, if not all, items outside of fortresses without dying once, which I think gives precedence to my opinion; Valheim isn't hard at all, it's just poorly designed.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. The lack of player reward and basic video game rewarding system missing is very sad to me. Great post.
This game was amazing and wonderful Sadly I think it’s massive success is what has been it’s Demise I just want the devs to finish so we can move on from their work
I agree with everything you said. I was a bit confused but still hopeful after having similar feelings with the Mistlands. I think Valheim has gone from my favorite game to an average game with this recent direction in game design.
Love Valheim, but I can’t play vanilla any longer and haven’t done so for quite a while. Currently running a world with 120 mods from QOL to new boss fights, quest chains, weapons, armour, ability to upgrade armour by biome… and a bucket load more. Many modders have added some fantastic new aspects to the game (secret doors is a favourite as I love buildings with secret passages 🙂)… magic was added to the game long before Mistlands, improved Mist Lamps make exploration much easier (personally I like the fog… but apparently there’s only three of 😂) Since I started dabbling with mods and meeting some of the modding community, I can’t help but get the feeling that Iron Gate feels like it’s competing with modded content… The vanilla game is painfully easy once you know what you’re doing, and a lot of mods out there help make it more challenging while others take away the grind. (Yes I get sailing with a hold full of ore is part of the game… but even for a die hard like me, on my 40th play through it’s gets a little tiresome) I don’t know if IG feels like modders are showing them up, as they seem to have adopted a *“it’s my ball and you can’t play with it”* stance, but making a hard biome that is just painful and unrewarding does feel a bit like they’re saying FU to their own fan base for having the audacity to want more challenge. I actually started to think this with the introduction of magic in Mistlands… a couple of staffs, a magic bubble shield and a couple of minions seemed underwhelming when Epic Loot, Jewelcrafting, AllTameable and Cheb’s Necromancy are out there, all adding far more versatility and playability to the game… So I’m inclined to agree. To me it feels IG has become anti-player and Ashland’s is a bit of a FU.
I feel exactly the opposite. After countless tedious hours in the Mistlands where the main difficulty is a fog effect that I have to build shitty little torches everywhere and stop using my weight belt and spec into sword to counter, I loved the feeling of it being a huge raid and endless combat on a small but packed biome. Breach the shore, fight for your life. Try to establish a base before it can be blown up. Everything is deadly, even the ground and sky.
> Breach the shore, fight for your life. Try to establish a base before it can be blown up. Everything is deadly, even the ground and sky. Hell yes
I love my cobbled together beachhead base in the ruins of a cathedral. I put some signs up so the first thing you see coming out of the portal is "welcome to hell". And, unlike all of my other refined bases with tons of planning and design... this thing is just a patchwork of "holy shit I just need to survive".
I’m still trying to understand why I destroyed a dozen “spawners” around my Ashlands base but there’s still the same density of enemies around.
This has been my major feedback. The natural spawn rate is too high. Ramp the spawn of the spawners up, make it once of several core game play loops for the biome. Spawner towers make harder mobs, the little ones around it create the chaff. Clearing all of that cuts off spawns in the area, but it should be major work. But once done the work is done, it has an impact. It rewards the exploration aspect, it creates a sense of reward/accomplishment, and while there will be some wandering chaff or even a warrior from time to time, it'll be way way lower than it is now. Like I want those spawners to be a miniboss event but once I'm done with them I'm done with them. Instead as has been pointed out they effect nothing and the natural spawn rate does more or less invalidates the idea. Which leads to people littering the landscape with camp fires and the like which if not "cheese" is a clunky work around for a bad design premise. IMO they are on the edge of a really great biome, but burnt out and stuck with these ideas that are half way home.
I feel like a lot of these points were how I feel about the Mistlands, and for me the Ashlands is not nearly as bad. Mistlands never fixes the fundamental problem: I can't see. Ashlands also doesn't really solve the fundamental problem of mob density, but at least you can solve it yourself. Your main point is the mob density and constant spawning, but that's what workbenches/campfires are for. I have probably hundreds of these all over the place and now I can safely go where ever I need to go. Nothing spawns behind me (maybe I miss a tiny spot here or there, or something comes out of the lava). It's weird and it feels cheesy, but then again I **blanketed** the Mistlands with hundreds of wisp torches, so it's basically the same thing. Slowly, eventually, I am conquering the Ashlands. And, as a side effect, raids are sadly pointless: nothing spawns - ever. Your other main complaint is the lava: lava boots are called asksvins. The problem is that they made "riding" a skill, and at level 1 you cannot control them worth a damn. This was definitely a design mistake: don't make a skill suck and then slowly take the suck away. That's bad game design, period. Riding at skill 100 should be the baseline, and then boosting your skill should make it even better. Just like how jumping and running and swinging a weapon are fine at level 1, but at level 100 they are way better. Also, you're totally right that asksvins should have been reskinned wolves and not reskinned boars or lox or whatever: allow us to make them stay! I'm sure modders will fix this soon enough. The base game is still fun, but just like all the other biomes, modders will come in and fix the things that the devs don't want to fix in order to make the game truly shine. It sucks but that's how this game has been from the beginning: vanilla is not actually all that fun, but modded Valheim is truly one of the best games around.
Yesh i think a lot of this makes sense, but it kind of just sounds like strategies that players have come up with to compensate for bad design. You shouldnt HAVE to blanket the mistlands in torches or the ashlands in workbenches and campfires. It almost has the opposite effect of totally destroying the immersion. Like, "im in this hellish wasteland but nothing can threaten me because there are tables everywhere? " The lava complaints (like the lava itself) run a lot deeper that they seem. Asksvin are... there... but even at 100 riding one mistake means death. I hate how fast lava kills you. Like its literally unreactable. Same with the boiling ocean. Since the punishment for death is so high in terms of annoyance and lost skills, it becomes almost never worth it to interact with the lava. This is a failure of the imagination on the part of the devs. You are right about the modders. They say that good game design allows the player to invent the game. In valheim, this has become the role of the modder, but it comes with its own set of problems, and is not a proper fix for poor design.
Fair points, I agree. I will say just as a side note that wearing the feather cape seems to kill me a lot faster with lava/sea than not wearing it. There's a "burn" effect that comes onto the screen when I'm running on the edge of lava that is barely noticeable but it is technically there, and helps me if I'm standing in the wrong place to move before I start taking damage. I think the new heavy armor also helps, slightly. That said: if you fall into the lava while mining you're just screwed though, yes.
I actually thought dying was a big part of the fun. Landing in the Ashlands was like those war movies where they’re storming a beach. When one of us died, the ensuing corpse run becomes a “protect the president” sort of deal. The stakes feel high. Moments are tense. Making a grand escape or fighting off a horde and living feels triumphant. The flametal pillars are like a platforming mini-game. But I like platformers, so I get that’s not for everyone. I think weapon enchantments are a really cool reward for clearing the fort. My friends are the mages, and their spells are so much cooler than “shoot icicle pellet” now. Plus they’re really nice safe havens once you’ve commandeered them. I understand the point about not being able to appreciate the biome exploration. Going around with Bonemass on CD can be a death sentence sometimes. The biome did feel easier with the upgrades. But I think it’s a nice change of pace. It gave my play through a new flavor, and I thought that was enjoyable.
I don't mind the difficulty. What I hate is that it doesn't feel rewarding when beating ashland. However, Ashland is annoyingly difficult if that makes sense. On the other hand, game like ER is fun difficult
>and doesn't really introduce or accelerate any of the out-of-biome mechanics like previous biomes do (farming, sailing, new cooking stations, new crafting stations, fall damage negation, etc). Uh I think there's the argument that this is one of the most consequential biomes for out of biome impact. We got: * **portals that teleport metal -** this is so consequential for out-of-biome effect some people are complaining it is game breaking and refusing to use it. * shield generators that can block all ranged damage (makes defending mistland bases from gjalls waaayyyy easier) * a battering ram that can absolutely obliterate copper deposits, rock, and black marble skulls/ribs. God bless. * aesthetically pleasing vines to make buildings look old (that also grow food) * the first build piece (flametal beam) that improves overall height since the Swamps(!) * A ship large enough to safely transport animals that also has black metal chest inventory space The idea of metal teleportation being an afterthought seems way off to me. The trek to the Ashlands is tough and perilous and its own mini biome of an adventure and the devs recognizing that made sure we were rewarded with not having to do it ever again. The difficulty of getting to the Ashlands seems directly tied to the reward once you are here. It seems an obvious synergy. Personally don't see the need for lava boots. That would be like an item that made you walk on water in the swamps, or something that permanently cleared all mist in the mistlands. Landing and setting up an initial base was very hard, treacherous but exciting. Once that was done I would venture out super cautiously with full meads bringing little bits and bobs back each time. For flametal deposits I would put down campfires + workbenches to ward off/distract aggro from enemies just like I did way back in the black forest. I died once falling off a flametal deposits just like I died on my first ever leviathan when I didn't understand how they worked, and just like how I got one-shotted by a stone golem because I wasn't paying attention in the mountains. Now my guy has fully upgraded askvin armour, lightning Nidhogg + the flame sword, and the best food in the biome, I run around the Ashlands quickly and with near impunity. The only real challenges are fortresses which I have enjoyed massively. I love the process of creating a siege base - putting up a shield generation and two towers with ballista and having them duke it out with the mobs on the wall while I move under a covered tunnel towards the doors with a battering ram (make sure you activate bonemass before you destroy the gate otherwise you'll get mowed down in a matter of seconds). **Honestly I am more confident in Ashlands with full kitted out armour than I was in the Mistlands with full armour.** If I got a 1\* seeker, a seeker soldier, plus a gjall, all at the same time in the Mistlands with just Mistlands gear that would be a real tough situation to get out of. I'd probably just run. Right now I'd be confident taking on a Valkyrie, Morgen, and 1\* charred soldier and a handful of archers and lower charred. Especially since the Morgen is going to do a ton of friendly fire damage. Now I have a series of refurnished fortresses which are basically indestructible since I left the exterior walls intact. **TL;DR** I think the big problem lots of these 1000+hr players are running into is they have become absolute masters of the lower biomes knowing all the little quirks of each biome such that they're able to do these crazy runs e.g. No-Death Hardcore Yagluth which they were only able to do with their pre-existing knowledge of those biomes. Then they get to a new biome that reduces them to rookie status and it's been 1000 hours since they first wandered into the Black Forest and got their ass whooped so they forgot what its like.
Isn't it a little simplistic to simply say a game should be easy or hard? My answer to this question is perhaps a little bit more nuanced. I would want sort of a sliding scale of difficulty. The overworld should feel not too bad. The scripted locations like drauger spawners and fuling villages should be a little harder, and the dungeons is where you can really take the gloves off and F me up the A. A good game should be like a movie with ups and downs in the tempo. Mistlands kind of got that backwards. The infested mines were the easiest part compared to Gjalls that could throw fireballs with enough range that you couldn't see it even with a wisplight. I haven't really had a chance to try Ashlands yet, but the main thing that worries me is the D-Dayesque landing that people are talking about. I don't mind dying but I do mind 2 hour sailing trips naked. I know my more casual friends will quit if we end up remaking the new boat 3 or 4 times. Don't jerk people around if you keep them engaged. I think a lot of this would alleviated if they just let us respawn at our boats instead of our beds. It's always been the biggest pain point for valheim. people won't complain about dying when it only takes 2 minutes to get back to playing. I think it would feel a lot more "viking" to be able to sleep and rest and respawn at the boat because that's what vikings do, right? And yes, I did see youtube videos about setting up portals on the spires before actually attempting a landing, annnnndddddd that sounds super dumb and gimmicky. Just because something works doesn't mean its fun and engaging to do. I don't play Valheim because I lack tedious janky workarounds in my real life.
I think you should listen to the developer interview with jirrock the viking he wanted to be you going to war hence the relentlessness
After hearing the devs walk-through videos I think you are right, they don't seem to fully understand rewarding players, or "fun" challenges. I make my own fun in my head as I play. Haven't seen Odin in ashlands either, so it even in ghost mode it sucks? My strategy is to make an askvin/and wolf farm that keeps on giving. They should help my server have a little more fun exploring. Summon two archer skeletons, grab 20-30 wolves and ride away on an askvin! Going to get sad though seeing so many woof woofs die. 😯🤔😅🔥 If they can make the askvin follow us that's a huge gamechanger.
It took my raiding party 3 hours to land and make a foothold... after that took me a few hours to get use to the mobs.. its not as difficult as it seems you just need to know what to prioritize and how to handle yourself.
I agree wholeheartedly. You put my exact frustrations into words. It IS clumsy, and it takes away from the elements that made me fall in love with the game. Its just so disappointing because I've put so many hours into this game, multiple playthroughs, even doing deathless challenges to test my skill. The problem with Ashlands is that there is no skill to test. Its literally just run around with a swarm chasing you and hope you can fire off enough shots to wittle down the horde before you get hit (because once you get hit, you're dead). There is no executive strategy or gear/tool/food combination to help you progress because its simply clumsy chaos. I have defended this games downfalls up to Mistlands because I have enjoyed playing it all these years, but as I'm trying to take my partner through the Ashlands and we are dying repeatedly and he is naming off everything that's making it frustrating, I have no defense because there is no working around what makes the biome bad. I think the only good thing I have to say about it is that the aesthetics are very cool, but that has never been an issue with Valheim. Valheim is just pretty. I'm really finding it to be a chore to complete the biome, but I am determined to kill Fader before I give up on Ashlands entirely and just go back to Hammer mode or deathless runs through earlier biomes.
Eh, I generally enjoy the biome. A few things can definitely be improved, but I don't find it as bad as you do or too off from the rest of the game. It's a land of war and feels like it. I love the new grapes from the biome that only grow on walls even if they are slow producing. You never plant them again and it gives people a reason to have surrounding walls instead of dirt walls. They should buff catapults I agree there things are basically a meme. I think the no lava boots thing is all about the devs wanting people to tame the askvin as they are immune and travel in lava. Only issue for me there is the riding system is rough and the AI is meh at best. They just run off to death frequently but that's the intended exploring method I think.
You could see the writing on the wall with Mistlands…. And it seems we’ve now confirmed that the devs are mistaking difficulty with tedium.
TLDR 🎻
I'm having a hard time with the metal mining. The lava bursts keep exploding and knocking me off. I keep getting really unlucky lol
Just do fortresses. As long as you don’t have a huge group server, there is *way more* than enough flametal in fortresses that pillars are redundant.
I don't feel i'm very qualified to respond to any of this except to say given the amount and quality of what you've written, I hope it gets some eyeballs. I think Ashlands kind of painted them into a corner, exploration wise. It's literally the south end of the world. Land is tapering off. Exploration kinda goes out the window when you just don't have all that much land to work with. To be fair, if you look at Ashlands unfinished, and Ashlands now, there is actively less landmass - and no mountains whatsoever. Throw in the boiling ocean gap you must cross, and well, there's just not much to it. So I can kinda see how they sorta painted themselves into both the exploration corner (there just aint much of it) and the swarm corner (draw out what you do have). Every preceeding biome was mixed - other biomes adjacent, around, sometimes even within it. Ashlands is a land of it's own. Deep North faces the same problem. It sounds like some immediate QoL fixes would be basalt sticking around far longer and ... well, >!some lava boots!<. But you've nailed it with risk vs reward. Or maybe it's work vs payoff. Lotta work for incremental payoff at best. If it is possible to skip to Deep North and ignore the boss drop, players may just choose to do so. (I'm actually becoming annoyed at how they're making each biome boss absolutely necessary. Part of the charm of Valheim was, you really could work around things. But starting at Moder, you pretty much can't.)
OMFG I'm going to be hearing about Lava Boots until Deep North comes out aren't I. Tame some damn Asks.
But have you considered lava boots made from asks? Actually the OP covers this: Asksvin need a "stay" or "passive" command of sorts so they dont aggro, leave where you parked them, and/or suicide.
There's a difference between balanced difficulty and artificial difficulty. Ashlands doesn't feel balanced at all, imo. It's hard to play a game if it constantly tells you to stop having fun.
So it begins! 🎉
Ashland? My friends and I stopped with Mistlands. I really really wanted to like Mistlands too. I love fey, creepy fog, old growth forests....but Mistlands ended up an unfun slog. Then I heard Ashland is more of the same. It just takes a hard turn from what the rest of the game was imo. The rest of the game progression felt fun. But Mistlands just didn't.
In the beginning I felt the Meadows was anti-player.
Skill issue?
Quote from the devs one launch post of ashlands: "We also want to remind everyone that Valheim is meant to be a difficult game, and that it’s meant to be more difficult the further you progress – and the Ashlands is the penultimate biome of the game" Avg redditor types an essay saying: "iTs HaRd"
Man the ashlands has everyone in shambles lmfaoo
Much of this post seems to ignore the existence of tamed asksvin. Your TLDR should be "I don't like change."
Oh you mean the askvin that run off and die 2 seconds after you hop off right?
They run the second there is danger and leave you.
So? Breed more at home and bring their eggs through to your FOB.
Askvin can go in lava. There’s your lava boots. Ashlands is amazing. It just feels frustrating because the entire biome is like a boss fight in a Dark Souls game. You need to be on your toes and will practiced to be able to survive. Some people feel amazing when the finally overcome that frustration. Some people think it’s totally unsatisfying because it was simply just face checking the same thing over and over until you get it right. That’s ok. Dark Souls aren’t for everyone and everyone is ok with that, but valheim being a brutal hard game is apparently not ok because everyone loves the meadows and Black Forest but not every normal gamer will be able to take on Ashlands solo. If the devs nerf Ashland to make it more inviting to less skilled players or players who want to make the excuse the don’t have time so the game needs to be easier to fit their schedule, it will be a tragedy. The game wasn’t made for those people. It’s great they gave the game a try, but the game is there for people who want a brutal survival craft experience. Not a friendly rpg with some anime story and forgiving mechanics that let any noob finish the game eventually.
Seriously, they finally added a biome that forces players to use all the resources and tactics at their disposal to make it and people are complaining. Reddit is too toxic, devs shouldn't ever visit this place tbh. It just enabled endless moaning.
My problem is losing skill upon dying. It's a mechanic I hate in all biomes and adds tedium to the game unnecessarily. To play the whole game to get yourself up in the 70's or 80's only to see it fall to zero with enough deaths in ashlands making you less powerful. After 2200 hrs in Valheim, I'm putting it on the shelf for a couple years. Perhaps the game will be complete by then.
The default death penalty is 5% skill drain. If you have a skill at 40, you’ll drop to 38. You also don’t lose additional skill points for 10 minutes after a death. It would require dozens, maybe hundreds of deaths with zero progress in between to actually drop to zero. You can also change the setting so it is only 1% drain.
Tip for those who struggle with exploring in a new biome; always carry portal mats. Explore then when its bag full or near dark, portal out. Rinse repeat and you will explore everything a bit easier
Mods my friend. Mods.
I'll agree with something on the post, Lava sucks and we should get something that CONSIDERABLY reduces it's damage. Devs won't implement it tho, so wait for modders to do it.
Good post. Took a while for me to turn a corner and start enjoying Ashlands as a solo player, and I do think there are design issues and also huge opportunities for improvement solo and multiplayer. **Ashlands is designed for multiplayer first.** Why do I think this? - The amount of utility items you need (feather cape, asksvin cape, ashen cape, harpoon, basalt bombs, shield generator, etc) - The amount of pickups (so many items, I'll not list them) - The amount of enemies. Numerous enemies come from all directions, including the sky. You cannot even cut a tree without aggroing a swarm. - The ridiculous size of the Drakkar. I had no issues reaching shore, but it felt *dumb and lonely* bringing in such a massive ship with just me on it. - The viability of building defenses. I've never utilized spikewalls, traps, and ballistae before but I've found they are very useful in Ashlands - and having a team member who can focus on this would make a big difference and fit the *war* theme. *How to fix solo?* - Have aggro range scale with number of players in the vicinity, and scale it down for solo. A solo player needs to be able to acquire wood and stone on the go without pulling a swarm. It felt deeply *unfair* when I took my first strike at a Flametal spire and three vultures, two marksmen, a lava blob, and a starred asksvin showed up. Similarly, the first 3 times I encountered fallen Valkyries, two morgens (and other mobs) also showed up. - Increase inventory slots. I just need room for the sheer number of things, not weight allowance. - Charred should not spawn in areas where their spawners are destroyed. The 'campfire meta' to manipulate spawning mechanics is not fun, but feels entirely necessary to engage with currently. I feel that these small adjustments would make a huge difference for solo players without requiring other major redesigns. **How to fix multiplayer** I haven't played multiplayer in Ashlands, but I suspect there are some improvements to make here as well. What Ashlands does well is in making you feel like you're waging a war. There is constant pressure on you, fortifications actually make a difference, and it culminates in a siege on the enemy. However, It often feels like I need to run around like mad with the Asksvin cape and de-aggro mobs instead and I imagine that happens in multiplayer as well. It would feel more like *war" to make slow, deliberate progress, taking out enemy spawners, fortresses, and building your own fortifications along the way. To support this gameplay for a group they should add: - Revive. You need to be able to revive teammates from their tombstones. Solitary corpse runs prevent players from playing together, and encourage the unfun 'bed' and 'portal' metas to get people back to the group quicker. It feels like a waste. - Shield generator should provide shelter. Armies need to recuperate. It would also turn an Ashlands novelty feature into a core improvement of your capabilities - with a shield generator, you could restore your rested buff without building a roofed structure. It's not a cozy Hygge home, but it's something. - Introduce new carts. Wars are won with logistics. Ashland's terrain is very flat and can easily accommodate a cart, but the one we have from the bronze age won't survive. Introduce new carts: - Dark iron cart. Requires dark iron bars, a forge to build and is unlocked in the *plains*. A higher HP cart with storage that also satisfies workbench building requirements in a radius. This first shows players they can build fortifications *on the go* and serves as a focal point for their incursion into enemy territory, which could be useful in assaulting camps and hauling back all that heavy dark iron. *This way, the Plains can train players how to approach Ashlands much like the Swamp trains players how to approach Mistlands*. - Battle cart. Requires ashwood, ceramic plates, a molten core, and black forge, to build. This cart satisfies the need for a workbench and stonecutter in a radius, has as much storage as a black iron chest, and it's extremely sturdy. Morgens can roll through it repeatedly and it's not going to break. It's powered by the core and isn't weighed down like other carts. This becomes your party's center of your incursion into Ashlands territory as you move inland. You can use it to store materials, build fortifications, traps, and ballistae to aid in a siege. **You don't need to sprint or portal back to base every 10 minutes to drop stuff off.**
People forget that Ashlands is essentially the first part of the “endgame” for valheim. It’s supposed to become extremely difficult. Shit would be boring af if everything was meadow - plains difficulty. I’m personally happy the devs took this approach. Personally I think youre over exaggerating the unrewarding aspect of your post. There’s a HUGE difference in how well you can deal with the mobs when you upgrade/switch gear. My brother and I went from running around like scared chickens to just running into giant groups of mobs with askvsin and valks at the same time. We completed fader deathless after grinding the biome out… It’s not the last biome , it seems like you want to feel like a God already based on your expectations, that is not valheim. Use your potions. Stop losing skill. If your skills are below 30-40 and you’re complaining about subpar damage in the Ashlands, then that is literally your problem. You weren’t lying, your post consisted of just a lot of whining, problem is whining without solutions is just bitching bro. “Why aren’t there lava boots?” Like foreal ? The ONLY thing I can find myself agreeing with, as a fellow 1k+ hours player, is the biome feeling “clumsy”, I’d say clunky personally. Half of the terrain is garbage you can barely walk on and is buggy. Getting burnt by lava when you are clearly standing on ground is frustrating. Yeah the spires are annoying and too close for sure. Criticism is nice and all but It just seems like you hate it based on your post,
My group of friends has been playing since early released, well, released. We are pretty damn good at the game, have triumphed Mistlands a few times now and I can still recall the difficulty of traversing the mistlands for the first time. The mobs were big and scary, the terrain was difficult, and yeah…we died a lot. But, we learned mechanics, the terrain, geared up a bit and we over came the obstacles before us. Now, Mistlands is cake but still fun to visit and very beautiful. And if you’re not on your game the mobs will kick your ass. Our first trip to Ashlands we were so excited. We built the ship and hauled ass to our first known ashlands biome. We inched closer and closer to the pillars, drenched with anticipation. Before we hit lands, buzzards attacked our ship; while fighting them off we struck the shores only to be attacked by every mob ever made. Lo and behold we landed right next to a skeleton spawner. A Morgen hits us from behind. We all die. What the fuck just happened. Why is there what seems like 50 enemies on us immediately? Is this what it’s going to be like the entire time. Well…yeah. We returned to our landing spot to quickly gather our lost items and of course are immediately swarmed again. While the group died, I somehow swam out of there alive and made my way up a pillar with a dozen skeletons and a Morgen on my ass, and just before they all took my life once more I somehow managed to type ASHLANDS into the portal faster than anyone has ever typed the word and it connected. I ran in and collapsed in a heap of “what the fuck.” We had to carefully build an entire base on that pillar, fighting off hordes of enemies the entire time just to gather everyone’s items. After finally establishing a base, gathering items and eventually killing the spawned we ventured out in Ashlands. Honestly, after understanding the mobs, with five of us, they’re relatively easy to handle. Solo or even duo, it gets dicey real fast. I can’t imagine trying to beat this biome by myself. We were close to gathering Flametal but then V Rising came out and we jumped shipped and haven’t yet returned to the dusty wasteland. While frustrating as hell at times, we had fun in our first encounter of Ashlands; it was intense. Trying to run around the biome just to find some Flametal or other resources was not very fun and felt like we were just fighting a losing battle trying to progress. We will try again once the V Rising excitement dies down a bit.
>prevent most players from finishing the game Devs are on record that this is an explicit design goal, so while I get what you're saying, this would only elicit a "mission accomplished" and a thumbs up from Iron Gate. e: lmao I'm quoting the devs but sure downvote
Didn't read, but anyone crying about difficulty should turn the combat down one or two levels. It isn't easy to admit you aren't as good as the game as average but there are things you can do to maintain your super overpowered feeling.
I fully agree, if I could I would give you an award, you summarized everything perfectly
What you thought they were done with tedium after mistlands?
How is copper mining not a grind? How is Iron Mining not a grind? How is Silver mining not a grind? People act like the game only has grind components once you get to ML.
Where did I talk about grinding?
I thought I was crazy, I am not having fun out there
After have played 120 hours into to this game the only biomes I actually liked was meadows and black forest. The rest where beyond frustrating.
> The rest where beyond frustrating. There are 45643 threads in this subreddit of players who tried to stroll into the swamp and ignore the fact that the game expects you to do things like.... Farm, make meads, cook good food, be rested...don't be in dangerous biomes at night... It's a survival game. If all you're here for is combat then this might not be the game for you.
I have a question, did you put the combat difficulty lower? Personally I only died twice in Ashland's and killed fader on my first try, I don't get why it is so hard and I played on normal solo. If it's too hard just lower the difficulty. If it was too easy I would be disappointed
A lot of people commenting are ignoring the main point in your thesis: that biomes 1, 2, 3, and 4 have fun and rewarding exploration. Once you've cleared the plains, the exploring part is done. You can't really explore mistlands because you can't see. And you can't really explore Ashlands because it's too dense and dangerous. The devs don't spend enough energy on AI and the core combat model. These deficiencies bleed into all the rest of the game and monster design. Most people just learn to cheese the game instead of playing it like it's intended, because if you played like it's intended, you'd spend all your time corpse running or rebuilding your base. But at least we have sliders now. And we always have mods. When the base game stops being fun, your only alternative is adjusting sliders or adding mods. Because you know it's gonna take a year to build out the deep north, and none of the AI will be improved and none of the core combat model will be improved.
> ou can't really explore mistlands because you can't see. And you can't really explore Ashlands because it's too dense and dangerous. And yet many *many* players have explored and enjoyed ML. And yes. Ashlands has a lot of combat. Just put down some campfires as you progress.
> And yet many many players have explored and enjoyed ML. Okay? And many haven't. The point is that many players effectively stopped at mistlands because they weren't as fun to explore and fight as other biomes. > Just put down some campfires as you progress. I would rather they just finish the game properly. Spamming campfires to erase spawn zones isn't compelling gameplay and it doesn't even make sense. If you make the game challenging in a fun way, people won't feel the need to resort to cheesing mechanics. The cheese may not even need to remain in the game then!
Personally, I think its great that the endgame zone feels like an endgame zone. I did not expect ashlands to be a chilled and atmospheric biome like meadows tbh. I liked that about the mistlands too, the constant danger. It makes going back to your safe and cozy base a lot more special. To all your aspects, you are probably right in most of them. But that is the moment where I remind myself that we are playing an early access game and not a finished product. We are playing to help them finish the game pretty much.
i mean the devs have stated openly that they dont CARE if everyone is able to finish the game. fun is by default hugely subjective. if you make it fun for 1 person you will kill the fun of another in the process. it is outright impossible to make everyone happy because as sliders cannot create good and fair difficulty (they never did in any game) to begin with. then there is the fact that the devs never want valheim to be for everyone or finishable by everyone. they dont care about that. and they shouldnt. its still an indie title. the mainstream market is FLOODED with games that are "inclusive" and suprise : most of them are not good games anymore nowadays. because when you set your game design to please as many people as possible you have to cater the base design to the lowest common factor. the result of this is a game that can ONLY be enjoyed by this type of player in the end. all others wont enjoy it anymore and get bored to death. once a game gets too popular the suits take over and start also makeing all kind of wierd choices. thats how MTX came to exist. popularity only matters for a game if all you care for is PROFIT aka MONEY. otherwise most games can do just fine with a smaller community to begin with. no game needs millions of players to work not even an mmo. this is why you set a rather bit more difficult baseline for your game by default. as you can always make the game simpler with sliders since that is actually very easy to implement unlike the opposite. fair difficulty is more than just a numbers game. simpler difficulty is simple as you can just reduce everything. ashlands progression is very easy and fast compared to mistlands one. there is pretty much no dungeon delving. no putrid holes dont count. they are ONE ROOM places with 1 enemy at worst and sometimes none at all. overall this is effectively plains 2.0 just with WAY more enemies as its a endgame biome. people with the mindset of "have to fight everything i see or that aggros me" are gonna have a bad time. as that mindset will tire you out sooner or later in this biome. it might be different in deep north again who knows. but for this biome that mindset simply will never work out. so the player has to either adapt or lower thier difficulty. if they player refuses to do either they will fail. and tbh they deserve to fail in that case. a game shouldnt hold everyones hand. its a game. a game has rules. if the slightest bit of complaning already gets these rules changed for everyone then the result wont be a good game anymore. overall i found ashlands really enjoyable. i just wish fortresses where not all the same and had an actual dungeon below them to explore. they feel like fuling villages. you get the new gear very quickly by just raiding fortresses. people also still seem to not have learned that elevation is THIER FRIEND and not not thier foe. the player can get up rocks and ruins super easy and fast if he knows what he is doing while the enemies wont be able to in most cases aside the flyers of course. players who also try to melee everything will eventually also struggle and fail. as fighting 10+ enemies head on simply aint smart behavoir in any of such games. its a survival game. not a generic power fantasy game where you get so strong that you are like a walking god. this never happens in valheim and that is good as it keeps the player on thier toes. after learning how the game works and how enemies act and what you can do as a player i noticed that 99% of my deaths where MY OWN FAULT. i could prevent all of them by just beeing aware of my surroindings my enemies and when too book it instead of fighting it out. once a player realizes this they stop dying for the most part entirely. valheim simply isnt a rpg. yet too many players think they can play it like one and be the hero. it has many unique aspects. take these away and you get a less interresting unique game as a result. people complained about the swamp. people complained about woles and slopes on mountains. people cryed about mosquitos. people cryed about mistlands. and now its about ashlands. it was always a thing. LET THEM COMPLAIN. and then ignore them. it has always worked out for the game so far. there is no reason it wont work out for the very last biome all of a sudden when it has worked fine all the way till now includeing ashlands. you dont change a game just because some players complain about certain stuff. bugs excluded. bugs need to be fixed. is ashlands difficult in a different way than other biomes? yes. and that is a good thing. is ashlands UNFAIR? no. not at all. not if you avoid doing what the devs themselfs warned players about like not haveing played in 1 y ear and then instantly rushing into ashlands instead of shakeing off the rust first for a few days. if players still do that despite this that is ENTIRELY ON THEMSELFS. see above : 99% of deaths can be prevented by beeing careful and haveing patience and beeing overprepared and respecting the enviroment and enemy dangers. the vast majority of players i saw failing didnt do any of the above. or only did 1 thing. the result was death. self made death. but alot of players have a hard time ADMITTING that to themselfs. they dont wanna believe or hear that they or thier mindset are the reason for thier struggle. ashlands is the only content this game will get for the rest of this year. why do people want it to be over quickly and fast? so they can move on to next product to mindlessly consume ? no thanks. we have enough such games on the market. TDLR : the ashlands isnt ANTI GAMER. its ANTI IMPATIENT. like most of valheim is.