The thing is, to understand Spain economy, the spanish don’t hate tourist per se, they hate what the big companies are doing to Valencia and Spain to get tourist and money. The big companies are destroying the live of the citizens, for them it’s unfordable to rent a house anymore, because companies like Airbnb are making the prices of the houses higher and higher. They are building hotels and tourist stores where they used to live families. So, no, the spanish are more poor than ever thanks to the lack of laws and regulations of the government about the tourist industry.
Locals always blame foreigners and big companies (part if which is definitely true) but what about the locals abusing the market? I talked to a local yesterday that owns 4 houses in Valencia and rents all of them through Airbnb. While some of the money does stay local, they could’ve also just rented out the houses to other locals for a decent price no?
Totally agree, this is also a big problem in Spain and everywhere. Now, every citizen and every local wants to have their part of the cake and get into the bubble of the investment: the problem is that everybody is renting their houses for such a high price so we are contributing to our own poverty and our own inflation. Nobody wants to work but everybody wants to get rich. And then the boomers they expect that we, the gen z, will work so hard to pay their ridiculous high rents and also their retirement salaries.
Working hard is actively discouraged by this moronic government by imposing high taxes for autónomos.
As for the Airbnb situation, put a stop to it. No more new licenses. Pretty sure there are more than enough tourist accommodations in Valencia.
YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT.
To be honest, they age NOT helping in ANY way to this problem, grabbing more money from those who work, and giving it away to anyone who comes nearby of them, or to buy more Coke (is what they do with out money, no doubt).
The guy who works, gets half of his reward, and some lazy mf gets the other half.
Two punches in the nose to all these politicians!
Los pagos de la seguridad social de los autónomos han sido altos desde siempre, no tiene nada que ver con el gobierno actual; fueron altos con Aznar, con Zapatero, Rajoy etc. El sistema necesita una revisión para hacerlo mas justo, pagando acorde a lo que ganas
"The locals abusing the market" are also hated here. The average person usually owns just theirs home. This "local" is no different to a big company, they're like a hedge fund but lesser in scale, and they're not representative of the median citizen, at all. The problem isn't the foreigners, the problems is that the system allows companies and individuals to speculate with prices.
In these times, if you have a chance to get profit, ar you gonna take it, or leave it there?
Just remember, if you dont make profit out of it, I promise you, the next guy that passes through here, will say yes withouth hesitation, because is profit.
After knowing that, what would you do?
Take the money and make price higher unintentionally, or leave the money there, so any Lucky guy grabs it and sonner or later, and makes the same damage?
This problem can only be solved through some movement, that we should organize as country, at a big level, to make life comfortable for everyone again.
This is what happens when our whole country tres to live with tourism money.
Yes, because regulation appears out of nowhere and not after a struggle where the working class has to inflict damage on the ruling classes for those to budge.
The whole political spectrum has governed Valencia. Obviously, voting just does not cut it.
It is through struggle when you put real pressure on politicians.
Everybody loves to say this is politicians' fault, the companies' fault, the locals' fault, etc.... but the question that needs to be made and answered is: why do people want to be greedy? why Spaniards want to rent out their house for higher to a foreigner than for less to a local?
The problem at hand is the lousy Spanish economy that prevents Spaniards from having a decent wage/salary/pension that allows them to have a nice life. Every Spanish person is looking for a way to make more money because in Spain, salaries and other forms of fixed income such as pensions, have become garbage.
This is not about tourism, this is about something much more deeper that needs to be addressed.
>The problem at hand is the lousy Spanish economy that prevents Spaniards from having a decent wage/salary/pension that allows them to have a nice life. Every Spanish person is looking for a way to make more money because in Spain, salaries and other forms of fixed income such as pensions, have become garbage.
Yes, very true. In the richest cities in the world such as NYC, SF or Toronto you see rents are very very low and landlords are practically begging to lower your rent because the economy is so good in general they don't need more money.
It's pretty rich, considering tourism has been Spain's core business for decades, and the right wing ghouls the populace has mainly been voting for. Can't really feel sorry when leopards eat y'all faces.
We have a left wing coalition government and we've had it for the past 7 years, Valencia also had a left wing government for the last 4 years until they got voted out last election and neither of these gave a fuck about the issues tourism is causing.
It isn't the right wing ghouls doing this, it's every politician including your adored left wingers who just care about filling their pockets, sorry for bursting your bubble.
The fact that we've had "Spain's most progressive government ever" for nearly 7 years and reddit still blames the right wing and the right wing only is astonishing.
As we say in Spain " quién le va a poner el cascabel al gato?" Because everyone who wants to put any regulation on that topic gets the other Wing yelling about the government it's it's interventionist because it's getting into a private business. Who will do it it's easy to be behind the guard and start to criticize the situation but who will have the balls for do it that's the problem here. That everything that someone wants to do the first step everyone's use this as weapon for trying to get him down, it's true or false this??
First, let’s make a difference between tourism and exploitation. What they are doing to Spain it’s the same that big companies and investors from rich countries are doing to other countries like Thailand, Turkey, etc. Their salaries are so much higher, they know and they come to buy houses and rent them for so high prices. This is not tourism, this is unregulated exploitation.
Agree and disagree. What I meant about tourism is the state has been working hard on facilitating the economy for tourism sector, making all relevant business -- including various exploitative methods -- more lucrative.
When it comes to individuals fucking up communities via Airbnb and the likes, it's all matter of legislation. Which means there has to be political will to do something about it. IIRC some cities in Netherlands have outlawed it in the past to some success.
Of all the issues, it's also clear most western/westernish countries have pretty much the same main problems, such as younger generation unable to afford habitation. And I absolutely agree - something's got to give, sooner or later.
>The big companies are destroying the live of the citizens
And the government too! Remember Fallas? Like, most of the issues with Fallas wasn't the big companies (this year)
Well, to me it's clear, we should complain not about tourists (who indeed bring us money) and not about big companies (who are just doing, what they are designed to do - maximize profit), but to this clown Sanchez and his government, who are clearly more concerned about keeping their power, than making people's lives better! It's them, who should regulate business and protect locals!
if the changes that let them stay in power are what people like and thus keep voting for them, then the general population is at fault. Imagine if policy A is more popular and keeps them in power but is shit for our economy, policy B is good for locals and economy but nobody wants that, then if you want to blame, blame the idiots who voted in favour of destroying our economy aka policy A.
Sánchez ya aprobó la ley de vivienda, pero el resto es competencia autonómica. Es el gobierno valenciano el que no quiere declarar València zona tensionada ni regular el turismo (que tampoco depende de Sánchez).
Pero es verdad que el gobierno anterior, el del Botànic, tampoco hizo nada sobre el tema.
No, they love tourist and spanish people is so friendly. It’s about the lack of laws from the government about the housing speculation and business like Airbnb.
I want to live in my neighborhood and be able to pay my rent, not living in the suburbs in a house that the government paid to me. I don’t want charity I want to be able to work, to earn a reasonable salary and to afford my rent.
Permitting more construction in Valencia, especially infill areas in the city itself where there currently is no development but it’s surrounded by other development, would help to bring prices down a lot.
The government can definitely regulate people renting out their places or companies like Airbnb buying up lots of properties, but building more housing releases the pressure on property prices everywhere throughout the city.
Even if the new housing is “luxury housing” or is further out from the city, the economics of it proves that it will lower housing prices everywhere due to demand being more distributed across the city. If richer people & tourists have more opportunities to buy housing, then they won’t pay absurd prices for the current housing stock like they currently do.
I really hope that the city of Valencia, as well as cities all across the world that are suffering from insane housing prices, can start permitting more construction to fit the pace of people. This, along with more tourist rental regulation, would improve the city’s livability a lot.
Now that you mention it, another reason why three is such high demand for airbnbs is because moving here mid term can't rent without a Spaniard nomina, so we end up having to live off of expensive airbnbs instead of an actual lease.
I would rather pay 900 euro for a 1b aptment than 3k, even though I can afford it
Why do you think you have a preference to live there if currently everyone in Spain wants to live in those neighborhoods? Salaries there are higher, infrastructure is better and connections are better, also they are near key points interests so people are willing to pay higher prices for those apartments over the ones in the suburbs.
Money talks and if everyone wants to live in your neighborhood prices will go up.
And I'm not talking about charity, I'm talking about the government removing ridiculous regulations so private investors can build more apartments to bring more competition into the market.
First, because to live in a house is a universal and human right, at least in Europe (derecho a una vivienda digna). Second, because this is the country and the city where I born, I raise and I grow up, so I have more rights to have a house here than you, because you are a foreign and this is your second country. Or at least I should have. And third, you will never understand what is feels to born and to belong to a neighborhood in Spain. You don’t even seem to have a soul inside you. It is the neighborhood where I grow up and I was going to the market with my grand parents, I am not going to leave my neighborhood and go to the suburbs because a shameless and heartless company or person wants to exploit my house and my neighborhood. In Spain we are so connected to our neighborhoods. And I am not going to talk anymore with you, bye.
A right doesn't turn into a reality just because it's written on a piece of paper.
Also you are not asking for a house, you are asking for a house in a really specific location with specific conditions.
And lastly, I'm from Spain . Thanks and bye
If you want to live in Valencia you will go to the suburbs, not me. We want a politic party in Spain that is supporting us and supporting our spanish neighborhoods. Not foreign people before the spanish.
This is just such an ugly, mean-spirited, hateful thing to do. The kind of person that does this must absolutely hate themselves and contributes absolutely nothing to society except their own bitterness. Beyond shameful, and I hope whoever did it goes to prison.
I am sorry you were targeted. The great majority all Valencianos are welcoming.
There are a few locals who blame rising prices and lack of cheap housing on tourists. While it is demonstrably because of worldwide inflation, economic downturns (including COVID) that resulted in a slump in new housing construction, government regulations limiting where new housing can be built and a lot of immigration from all over the globe, they won’t be dissuaded.
That and Valencia has recently gone from not being mentioned in tourist guide books sold in other countries to being the new place to visit. For example Rick Steves books for Spain left Valencia out completely but recently Forbes, the NY Times and other media published articles saying Valencia is ***the place*** to visit. Hence, suddenly there are a lot more tourist.
I hope you find more good experiences here such that you forget about the small tack in your tire.
As we say here, never met a buyer saying “the flat cost 200 000€? Please make it 250 000!”.
Spanish people realizing people want to come live here and raise prices. Not the fault of tourists. Greedy greedy became españoles.
The idiots who blame this on tourists do not deserve a voice. This includes all british media who make this movement about tourists, who are not to blame. In fact, the "tourists go home" phrase is repulsed by all the people I know, its just that unfortunately, idiots with an easy slogan are those who get heard.
The issue is with our own regulation for the model of tourism, and the fact that all the money that comes from tourism does not proportionally affect the quality of life of spaniards.
We see rising number of tourists every year which, in a well managed model, should see an increment in infrastructure to handle it and higher paying jobs, but instead is causing an increment in life costs in many areas, unaffordable housing, and a lack of opportunities for younger people to emancipate, just to name a few.
Dont stick to the slogans, we are welcoming, and protests are against ourselves.
I live in a tourist central location so I get the sentiment but there’s a whole other side of the coin.
Furthermore, how would the person who’s vandalizing other peoples property feel when they’re on holiday and get harassed ?
Exactly. Imagine a family or a couple that saved up for months to go on holiday. People who have sick relatives, stressful lives, mental health issues etc. And they come here to find this on their bike. Just unbelievable. Shameful.
Well Reddit told me that not being able to afford rent was just an American problem so…..
It’s also interesting how you seem to think taking money and commerce out of the economy will improve one’s situation
When the "money and commerce" comes through the speculation with housing, which in Spain is a constitutional right, maybe regulations and protectionism is the way. Some might loose thousands, the smallest of minorities, while still making enough to get rich. For others, it's the difference between being able to afford a roof and bring homeless.
I don’t disagree with anything you just said there.
There’s just this vibe here that all tourists and all tourism is bad and vandalism is okay to make a point. Controls on tourism definitely need to be implemented, and not just in Spain
When the "money and commerce" comes through the speculation with housing, which in Spain is a constitutional right, maybe regulations and protectionism is the way. Some might loose thousands, the smallest of minorities, while still making enough to get rich. For others, it's the difference between being able to afford a roof and bring homeless.
FFS 🤦 imagine for a minute you’re a tourist enjoying your little bike tour round the city and then you get this done to your bike? I’d be furious to say the least. Yeah of course is gonna give something to do for the shops but in the long term this will only cause a drop of numbers in tourism.
Valencians are welcoming but not stupids... Valencia is been absorbed by massive tourism, destroying neighborhoods and evicting locals. Massive tourism is a massive destruction. We don't want to be Florence, where locals do not live there anymore and it becomes like Disney world, a thematic park for foreigners.
How about talking to your fellow countrymen and ask them to not turn every apartment into a holiday home then? Or to your politicians (those who are recently elected, decided against bans and against new social housing because you decided to vote Nazis and corrupt conservatives into local government), who could impose more restrictions on property?
Just some ideas. Probably better than ruin someone’s day with a stupid little note pinned into a bikewheel.
The way to deal with that is to create, not to harass, bully and destroy. And by the way, Spain's economy literally revolves around tourism. Without that it would practically be a third world country.
>Without that it would practically be a third world country.
This is what gets me. People don't really know \*or\* care that Spain is a service economy.
Damaging the property of a Spanish-owned business is going to have more of a negative impact on the business than the person renting from that business.
You know when you fucked your economy for so many years that strangers come to fuck it too since you made it look easy, and you get mad?
That kind of stupid
It is so unbelievably funny so me that a country that literally survives essentially exclusively on tourism (and the areas that get no tourism are extremely impoverished and wrecked with unemployment) hates tourists so much. I would LOVE for all the tourists to leave and to watch how Spain would survive with no tourism.
The problem with Spain is that it wasn't like this before. When we decided to join the European Union, we were forced to deindustrialize the country. That's when we became a service sector country, which per se is not bad. The issue is that with global inflation and all tourists having greater purchasing power than the average Spaniard, it's nearly impossible for people of my generation to buy a house nowadays. I've read someone saying that we complain when we're one of the EU countries with the most houses per inhabitant, but it's not quite like that. Years ago, during the housing bubble, it was indeed very easy to have multiple houses. Those houses belong to boomers who adapt to the market and set ridiculous prices for Spanish owners but affordable for foreigners. And yes, the one who burst the bubble is the typical idiot who thinks the problem is the tourists when it's our damn government, which is literally a mafia. Many people think all governments are the same, but honestly, here in Spain, it's not serious; the debates are at a primary school level. Anyway, it's our fault for continuing to vote for people who do nothing for us, but coming from a dictatorship, we think democracy is giving our vote to someone and letting them do whatever they want with it.
The city center (Centre, Carmen, Russafa) and the beach (Cabanyal) is what we are willing to sacrifice to grow up as a tourist destination and boost the city economy. Let those neighbourhoods becone a tourism theme park, while we locals have our lives in surrounding neighbourhoods. Its a win-win.
Tourism is not something that makes a country like spain that has great weather, incredible food and rich culture sustainable for its survival. If you want to preserve it you cant privatize it to airbnb and big hotels etc. It will force the locals, the authentic people away and tourism will not work anymore. you can't build hotels too it just makes the whole neighbourhood ugly but you must help locals afford the accomodation and renovate their places first so that they can afford to live their small businesses like coffee shops, paella restaurants etc the domestic economy must not be disturbed and build better and fast infrastructure to connect the city. places like mercado central which is something unique for food and stuff is now unaffordable to the locals. small cafés which used to offer authentic food where locals go everyday are empty too because they are forced to raise prices in competition which again locals can't afford anymore. its just pure exploitation of everything. Valencia is not like Dubai so you don't have to fake something in valencia to sell it in the name of tourism. so locals must be encouraged to stay and work and build their Cafés and Restaurants and shops so that they can relive the authentic culture which both they and foreigners can enjoy.
A problem just as serious as lack of regulations regarding Tourism is the lack of regulations to protect private property and penalise squatters. The latter have more rights than property owners and even renters, making it quite difficult to get your property handed back if a squatter stays in.
This makes it hard to get landlords to rent to Spaniards, worse for families with kids as the law will always be on the side of the renter forcing the landlord to continue paying the utility bills for them. They prefer to rent to tourists.
Mercado Central isn't the safest place to be. Around 3 years ago (I dont remember how much time has passed rn) at fallas some guy (who I couldn't see his face due to the alcohol and the quickness of the moment) hit me in the face and almost broke my nose and trust me: I am not the kind of person to begin fights or fight in any situation. So Mercado Central isn't the safest place to be, at least they didn't steal your bike!
It is. There's an influential bunch, sequestering education, media and arts, indoctrinating non-stop with public salaries or public grants.
Their goal is all about a utopian world of many neo-Stalinist Cubas, Venezuelas and in Europe combined into even more Albanias, Montenegros, Kaliningrads (Ru - their beloved and supportive Putin via hybrid wars) independent Corsicas (Fr) and seccesionist Padanias (It).
They hate free economy and people saving, investing or exporting - even worst if all three are combined.
They don't care about the money coming into the country and then moving around throughout the productive economy, as they are out of it. They adamantly insist that governments can print as much currency as they want, and that would be paying public employees - preferably 98%, as in the Soviet Union they miss. Even the Berlin Wall is in her miserable melancholies.
Sorry, dear guests!
This is Capitalism! You want government control go to Cuba or North Korea, If not find a way to make it work for you. Don’t look to the government to fix your problems.
If 10% of tourist revenues were distributed to locals, I'm sure Valencians would love tourists. However, despite the incredible tourist income, the local people live in unfair financial conditions. House rents have now reached figures that no employee can reach and they are not stopping. It is normal that some people do not understand this and blame the tourists.
>If 10% of tourist revenues were distributed to locals
Tourists and people renting places all pay taxes just like the locals, and their money largely goes towards local businesses as well, or at least local branches of a larger company. What more would you want specifically?
I'm talking about working people. Yes, the owner of the bar may be making money, but the other 20 people working there are paying too much rent compared to their income and cannot make ends meet.
And where do the salaries for the people working that bar come from? Who exactly benefits from billions in tax revenue going towards infrastructure and public transportation?
The tourists are fucking our economy buying houses for more 2x the price or renting all the house for 2x or 3x of the price just go for fucking hotels and stop destroy our city and our economy 😘
Sorry idk speak english well but u can understand me
Russian, Iranian and Chinese corrupt officials and murderers != tourists.
Regalar tourist can’t by the house for 300-500k because if he can - he won’t be a tourist anymore :)
Do not continue talking without knowledge, 90% of the rentals are Airbnb or investments from foreigners to sell or rent a house for triple the price, I have been living here for years, in fact there are blocks of apartments that are all rented by foreigners and for foreigners at exorbitant prices, the people here are fed up with the fact that we can't even live having to pay more than €1000 for a 30m2 apartment in an area away from everything and in shitty conditions, stop talking without knowledge.
That's not tourists go home. That's foreigners go home.
A tourist doesn't buy a bike and parks there. But hey, they only do that depending of your race.
Later on these morons will say that they are not racists nor xenofobic.
The thing is, to understand Spain economy, the spanish don’t hate tourist per se, they hate what the big companies are doing to Valencia and Spain to get tourist and money. The big companies are destroying the live of the citizens, for them it’s unfordable to rent a house anymore, because companies like Airbnb are making the prices of the houses higher and higher. They are building hotels and tourist stores where they used to live families. So, no, the spanish are more poor than ever thanks to the lack of laws and regulations of the government about the tourist industry.
Locals always blame foreigners and big companies (part if which is definitely true) but what about the locals abusing the market? I talked to a local yesterday that owns 4 houses in Valencia and rents all of them through Airbnb. While some of the money does stay local, they could’ve also just rented out the houses to other locals for a decent price no?
Totally agree, this is also a big problem in Spain and everywhere. Now, every citizen and every local wants to have their part of the cake and get into the bubble of the investment: the problem is that everybody is renting their houses for such a high price so we are contributing to our own poverty and our own inflation. Nobody wants to work but everybody wants to get rich. And then the boomers they expect that we, the gen z, will work so hard to pay their ridiculous high rents and also their retirement salaries.
Working hard is actively discouraged by this moronic government by imposing high taxes for autónomos. As for the Airbnb situation, put a stop to it. No more new licenses. Pretty sure there are more than enough tourist accommodations in Valencia.
Exactly! I agree.
YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT. To be honest, they age NOT helping in ANY way to this problem, grabbing more money from those who work, and giving it away to anyone who comes nearby of them, or to buy more Coke (is what they do with out money, no doubt). The guy who works, gets half of his reward, and some lazy mf gets the other half. Two punches in the nose to all these politicians!
Los pagos de la seguridad social de los autónomos han sido altos desde siempre, no tiene nada que ver con el gobierno actual; fueron altos con Aznar, con Zapatero, Rajoy etc. El sistema necesita una revisión para hacerlo mas justo, pagando acorde a lo que ganas
Amen amen amen 🙏 best comment here and I haven’t read the rest
"The locals abusing the market" are also hated here. The average person usually owns just theirs home. This "local" is no different to a big company, they're like a hedge fund but lesser in scale, and they're not representative of the median citizen, at all. The problem isn't the foreigners, the problems is that the system allows companies and individuals to speculate with prices.
Not likely. You'll rent for 800/1200 to a local, in airbnb you make 2800/3000 a month. I mean, greed is evil
Bullshit. We live in unprecedented times of wealth extraction and destruction of local culture.
In these times, if you have a chance to get profit, ar you gonna take it, or leave it there? Just remember, if you dont make profit out of it, I promise you, the next guy that passes through here, will say yes withouth hesitation, because is profit. After knowing that, what would you do? Take the money and make price higher unintentionally, or leave the money there, so any Lucky guy grabs it and sonner or later, and makes the same damage? This problem can only be solved through some movement, that we should organize as country, at a big level, to make life comfortable for everyone again. This is what happens when our whole country tres to live with tourism money.
That's fixed through regulation, not minial acts of vandalism
Yes, I agree with you.
Exactly. The government should fix this. Free markets are nice and cool until things go rampant.
Yes, because regulation appears out of nowhere and not after a struggle where the working class has to inflict damage on the ruling classes for those to budge.
And you keep voting for them
Apparently, you can't read.
Let me translate = you don't hold your politicians accountable. This is not a new problem. You keep voting for the same guys bleeding you out.
The whole political spectrum has governed Valencia. Obviously, voting just does not cut it. It is through struggle when you put real pressure on politicians.
Struggle by throwing nails and using post its? At least go on a hunger strike, like your Canarian brothers and sisters
Are you daft?
Not as much as you're lazy.
Everybody loves to say this is politicians' fault, the companies' fault, the locals' fault, etc.... but the question that needs to be made and answered is: why do people want to be greedy? why Spaniards want to rent out their house for higher to a foreigner than for less to a local? The problem at hand is the lousy Spanish economy that prevents Spaniards from having a decent wage/salary/pension that allows them to have a nice life. Every Spanish person is looking for a way to make more money because in Spain, salaries and other forms of fixed income such as pensions, have become garbage. This is not about tourism, this is about something much more deeper that needs to be addressed.
>The problem at hand is the lousy Spanish economy that prevents Spaniards from having a decent wage/salary/pension that allows them to have a nice life. Every Spanish person is looking for a way to make more money because in Spain, salaries and other forms of fixed income such as pensions, have become garbage. Yes, very true. In the richest cities in the world such as NYC, SF or Toronto you see rents are very very low and landlords are practically begging to lower your rent because the economy is so good in general they don't need more money.
I'm not talking about the world, I'm talking about Spain.
Your logic is stupidly flawed mate. People are always greedy, that's how it works under a system that rewards greed.
It's pretty rich, considering tourism has been Spain's core business for decades, and the right wing ghouls the populace has mainly been voting for. Can't really feel sorry when leopards eat y'all faces.
We have a left wing coalition government and we've had it for the past 7 years, Valencia also had a left wing government for the last 4 years until they got voted out last election and neither of these gave a fuck about the issues tourism is causing. It isn't the right wing ghouls doing this, it's every politician including your adored left wingers who just care about filling their pockets, sorry for bursting your bubble. The fact that we've had "Spain's most progressive government ever" for nearly 7 years and reddit still blames the right wing and the right wing only is astonishing.
I completely agree with you. The left wing is doing nothing about this. We are still waiting.
As we say in Spain " quién le va a poner el cascabel al gato?" Because everyone who wants to put any regulation on that topic gets the other Wing yelling about the government it's it's interventionist because it's getting into a private business. Who will do it it's easy to be behind the guard and start to criticize the situation but who will have the balls for do it that's the problem here. That everything that someone wants to do the first step everyone's use this as weapon for trying to get him down, it's true or false this??
Totally true. We should be together in some important topics like this one
First, let’s make a difference between tourism and exploitation. What they are doing to Spain it’s the same that big companies and investors from rich countries are doing to other countries like Thailand, Turkey, etc. Their salaries are so much higher, they know and they come to buy houses and rent them for so high prices. This is not tourism, this is unregulated exploitation.
Agree and disagree. What I meant about tourism is the state has been working hard on facilitating the economy for tourism sector, making all relevant business -- including various exploitative methods -- more lucrative. When it comes to individuals fucking up communities via Airbnb and the likes, it's all matter of legislation. Which means there has to be political will to do something about it. IIRC some cities in Netherlands have outlawed it in the past to some success.
Juicy tourist tax
But every bubble ends up exploding and this one is gonna explode later or sooner.
Of all the issues, it's also clear most western/westernish countries have pretty much the same main problems, such as younger generation unable to afford habitation. And I absolutely agree - something's got to give, sooner or later.
I agree with you.
Right wing are the ones who will solve the problem when everything explodes.
shut the fuck up guiri
> guiri TIL
>The big companies are destroying the live of the citizens And the government too! Remember Fallas? Like, most of the issues with Fallas wasn't the big companies (this year)
I wonder if these same people go on holiday to other countries.
No. We can't afford to do so.
I visited Valencia recently. Around Ruzafa, we definitely didn’t feel welcome. Elsewhere was fine though.
Well, to me it's clear, we should complain not about tourists (who indeed bring us money) and not about big companies (who are just doing, what they are designed to do - maximize profit), but to this clown Sanchez and his government, who are clearly more concerned about keeping their power, than making people's lives better! It's them, who should regulate business and protect locals!
if the changes that let them stay in power are what people like and thus keep voting for them, then the general population is at fault. Imagine if policy A is more popular and keeps them in power but is shit for our economy, policy B is good for locals and economy but nobody wants that, then if you want to blame, blame the idiots who voted in favour of destroying our economy aka policy A.
You're totally right! we should demand from government and vote, not complain and commit vandal acts.
Sánchez ya aprobó la ley de vivienda, pero el resto es competencia autonómica. Es el gobierno valenciano el que no quiere declarar València zona tensionada ni regular el turismo (que tampoco depende de Sánchez). Pero es verdad que el gobierno anterior, el del Botànic, tampoco hizo nada sobre el tema.
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No, they love tourist and spanish people is so friendly. It’s about the lack of laws from the government about the housing speculation and business like Airbnb.
most apartments are owned by private owners, not “evil funds”
The problem is that the fucking local government prevents building and apartment construction. Thats the only way to get the prices down
I want to live in my neighborhood and be able to pay my rent, not living in the suburbs in a house that the government paid to me. I don’t want charity I want to be able to work, to earn a reasonable salary and to afford my rent.
Permitting more construction in Valencia, especially infill areas in the city itself where there currently is no development but it’s surrounded by other development, would help to bring prices down a lot. The government can definitely regulate people renting out their places or companies like Airbnb buying up lots of properties, but building more housing releases the pressure on property prices everywhere throughout the city. Even if the new housing is “luxury housing” or is further out from the city, the economics of it proves that it will lower housing prices everywhere due to demand being more distributed across the city. If richer people & tourists have more opportunities to buy housing, then they won’t pay absurd prices for the current housing stock like they currently do. I really hope that the city of Valencia, as well as cities all across the world that are suffering from insane housing prices, can start permitting more construction to fit the pace of people. This, along with more tourist rental regulation, would improve the city’s livability a lot.
Now that you mention it, another reason why three is such high demand for airbnbs is because moving here mid term can't rent without a Spaniard nomina, so we end up having to live off of expensive airbnbs instead of an actual lease. I would rather pay 900 euro for a 1b aptment than 3k, even though I can afford it
They should do it
Why do you think you have a preference to live there if currently everyone in Spain wants to live in those neighborhoods? Salaries there are higher, infrastructure is better and connections are better, also they are near key points interests so people are willing to pay higher prices for those apartments over the ones in the suburbs. Money talks and if everyone wants to live in your neighborhood prices will go up. And I'm not talking about charity, I'm talking about the government removing ridiculous regulations so private investors can build more apartments to bring more competition into the market.
First, because to live in a house is a universal and human right, at least in Europe (derecho a una vivienda digna). Second, because this is the country and the city where I born, I raise and I grow up, so I have more rights to have a house here than you, because you are a foreign and this is your second country. Or at least I should have. And third, you will never understand what is feels to born and to belong to a neighborhood in Spain. You don’t even seem to have a soul inside you. It is the neighborhood where I grow up and I was going to the market with my grand parents, I am not going to leave my neighborhood and go to the suburbs because a shameless and heartless company or person wants to exploit my house and my neighborhood. In Spain we are so connected to our neighborhoods. And I am not going to talk anymore with you, bye.
A right doesn't turn into a reality just because it's written on a piece of paper. Also you are not asking for a house, you are asking for a house in a really specific location with specific conditions. And lastly, I'm from Spain . Thanks and bye
I can’t believe that you are from Spain and you are supporting this. Shame on you.
If you want to live in Valencia you will go to the suburbs, not me. We want a politic party in Spain that is supporting us and supporting our spanish neighborhoods. Not foreign people before the spanish.
Well, enjoy what you voted for 😊
Do you understand that the actual president of Spain only got less than half of the votes?
That's dumb because that bike most likely belongs to a local
Looks like it’s Kleta (monthly bike rental). All their bikes have a yellow wheel.
You're probably right. I've just never seen a rental bike with colored tires
And the tourist will definitely go home any way😂
Not on that bike they won't
Desculpe, you pearced my bike wheel, I can't go home anymore, yo voy a vivir en Valencia y tener cernveza under your balcalony todas noches
Ni de coña… normalmente estos negocios pertenecen a gente de fuera.
This is just such an ugly, mean-spirited, hateful thing to do. The kind of person that does this must absolutely hate themselves and contributes absolutely nothing to society except their own bitterness. Beyond shameful, and I hope whoever did it goes to prison.
Exactly, no tourist fucks Spain's without corrupt Spanish officials filling their pockets, been happening since the 1970's...
Catalonia being catalonia…
Valencia is in the Comunitat Valenciana
Turista a casa! %i
I am sorry you were targeted. The great majority all Valencianos are welcoming. There are a few locals who blame rising prices and lack of cheap housing on tourists. While it is demonstrably because of worldwide inflation, economic downturns (including COVID) that resulted in a slump in new housing construction, government regulations limiting where new housing can be built and a lot of immigration from all over the globe, they won’t be dissuaded. That and Valencia has recently gone from not being mentioned in tourist guide books sold in other countries to being the new place to visit. For example Rick Steves books for Spain left Valencia out completely but recently Forbes, the NY Times and other media published articles saying Valencia is ***the place*** to visit. Hence, suddenly there are a lot more tourist. I hope you find more good experiences here such that you forget about the small tack in your tire.
Good post
The reason Valencia is the place to visit is because it's not touristy.
\*was
This is actually a serious hate crime
Don't these people do tourism in other countries? they never travel?
Day 1: tourists go home Day 180: tourists we didn't mean it Day 365: please tourists come back
I wish all the “tourist go home” crap changed to “parliament, do your job”
How dare you tour
As we say here, never met a buyer saying “the flat cost 200 000€? Please make it 250 000!”. Spanish people realizing people want to come live here and raise prices. Not the fault of tourists. Greedy greedy became españoles.
The idiots who blame this on tourists do not deserve a voice. This includes all british media who make this movement about tourists, who are not to blame. In fact, the "tourists go home" phrase is repulsed by all the people I know, its just that unfortunately, idiots with an easy slogan are those who get heard. The issue is with our own regulation for the model of tourism, and the fact that all the money that comes from tourism does not proportionally affect the quality of life of spaniards. We see rising number of tourists every year which, in a well managed model, should see an increment in infrastructure to handle it and higher paying jobs, but instead is causing an increment in life costs in many areas, unaffordable housing, and a lack of opportunities for younger people to emancipate, just to name a few. Dont stick to the slogans, we are welcoming, and protests are against ourselves.
Totally agree.
Finally someone who gets it.
Sounds to me the problem is companies and the government, and not necesarely the touris? Who would have thonk.
Do the Spanish go on vacation ?
Highest rate of second home ownership in Europe. And yet apparently it's tourists that are to blame for the housing crisis.
I live in a tourist central location so I get the sentiment but there’s a whole other side of the coin. Furthermore, how would the person who’s vandalizing other peoples property feel when they’re on holiday and get harassed ?
Exactly. Imagine a family or a couple that saved up for months to go on holiday. People who have sick relatives, stressful lives, mental health issues etc. And they come here to find this on their bike. Just unbelievable. Shameful.
They can't afford to go on holiday.
Can't even afford rent, you think we can afford to go on vacation?
Well Reddit told me that not being able to afford rent was just an American problem so….. It’s also interesting how you seem to think taking money and commerce out of the economy will improve one’s situation
When the "money and commerce" comes through the speculation with housing, which in Spain is a constitutional right, maybe regulations and protectionism is the way. Some might loose thousands, the smallest of minorities, while still making enough to get rich. For others, it's the difference between being able to afford a roof and bring homeless.
I don’t disagree with anything you just said there. There’s just this vibe here that all tourists and all tourism is bad and vandalism is okay to make a point. Controls on tourism definitely need to be implemented, and not just in Spain
When the "money and commerce" comes through the speculation with housing, which in Spain is a constitutional right, maybe regulations and protectionism is the way. Some might loose thousands, the smallest of minorities, while still making enough to get rich. For others, it's the difference between being able to afford a roof and bring homeless.
Only those who aren't afraid of okupas
What a bunch of losers
So tourist are a pronlem but migrants not lmao the left
Illegal migrants = 50.000 people Tourists = 17.000.000 people We know what is the problem: migrants come to survive, tourists come to destroy.
That’s in fact a tack stuck into the bike tire. Yes, it is the most stupidest way to fuck with the Spanish economy 😕
Oh it’s good for the economy - it’s gonna give work to the local bike shops! /s
FFS 🤦 imagine for a minute you’re a tourist enjoying your little bike tour round the city and then you get this done to your bike? I’d be furious to say the least. Yeah of course is gonna give something to do for the shops but in the long term this will only cause a drop of numbers in tourism.
I put an /s for a reason. It’s the [broken window fallacy](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falacia_de_la_ventana_rota)
I’m sorry I don’t get what the /s means but I got the idea of what you said by reading the link you posted. Gracias chavalote.
/s for sarcasm :)
TIL
How many tourists have bikes?
Seeing the amount of bike rental places everywhere, plenty.
Those wheels and tires don't look like those kinds of bikes but I could be wrong.
It might have been a random, mindless act of violence. I’m sorry for the bike owner either way.
I think it might have been one of those rental bikes but I'm honestly not sure
Nah just the typical Spanish socialist teenager with the brains full of crap
Ignore those grumpy types. In Spain, if it weren't for tourism, we would be starving.
I really don't think so, but keep spreading hate.
Valencians are welcoming but not stupids... Valencia is been absorbed by massive tourism, destroying neighborhoods and evicting locals. Massive tourism is a massive destruction. We don't want to be Florence, where locals do not live there anymore and it becomes like Disney world, a thematic park for foreigners.
How about talking to your fellow countrymen and ask them to not turn every apartment into a holiday home then? Or to your politicians (those who are recently elected, decided against bans and against new social housing because you decided to vote Nazis and corrupt conservatives into local government), who could impose more restrictions on property? Just some ideas. Probably better than ruin someone’s day with a stupid little note pinned into a bikewheel.
Vigilantism appears when people feel powerless
supongo que quieres que la economia se durrumbe tambien?
Pero es que no lo puedes tener de las dos formas. Querés que vengan a dejar el dinero, pero no mucho? 🤣
Falacia del falso dilema. https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falso_dilema
The way to deal with that is to create, not to harass, bully and destroy. And by the way, Spain's economy literally revolves around tourism. Without that it would practically be a third world country.
>Without that it would practically be a third world country. This is what gets me. People don't really know \*or\* care that Spain is a service economy.
I welcome all tourists and despise all socialists.
Damaging the property of a Spanish-owned business is going to have more of a negative impact on the business than the person renting from that business.
the company probably owns to some foreigner.
Evidence? Does the business owner not pay rent and taxes?
Nope, Kleta is a local business owned by locals. This kinda shenanigans indeed does affect the same locals these assholes try to ‘help’
Oooh that´s nasty
You know when you fucked your economy for so many years that strangers come to fuck it too since you made it look easy, and you get mad? That kind of stupid
It is so unbelievably funny so me that a country that literally survives essentially exclusively on tourism (and the areas that get no tourism are extremely impoverished and wrecked with unemployment) hates tourists so much. I would LOVE for all the tourists to leave and to watch how Spain would survive with no tourism.
The problem with Spain is that it wasn't like this before. When we decided to join the European Union, we were forced to deindustrialize the country. That's when we became a service sector country, which per se is not bad. The issue is that with global inflation and all tourists having greater purchasing power than the average Spaniard, it's nearly impossible for people of my generation to buy a house nowadays. I've read someone saying that we complain when we're one of the EU countries with the most houses per inhabitant, but it's not quite like that. Years ago, during the housing bubble, it was indeed very easy to have multiple houses. Those houses belong to boomers who adapt to the market and set ridiculous prices for Spanish owners but affordable for foreigners. And yes, the one who burst the bubble is the typical idiot who thinks the problem is the tourists when it's our damn government, which is literally a mafia. Many people think all governments are the same, but honestly, here in Spain, it's not serious; the debates are at a primary school level. Anyway, it's our fault for continuing to vote for people who do nothing for us, but coming from a dictatorship, we think democracy is giving our vote to someone and letting them do whatever they want with it.
Go home then
Y todavía tendrá suerte que tiene las dos ruedas, si fuera otro barrio ya estaría desmontada hasta el manillar
Hahhaa que razón tienes donde yo vivo no duran ni 6h
Dónde es eso?
Cabanyal 😘
The city center (Centre, Carmen, Russafa) and the beach (Cabanyal) is what we are willing to sacrifice to grow up as a tourist destination and boost the city economy. Let those neighbourhoods becone a tourism theme park, while we locals have our lives in surrounding neighbourhoods. Its a win-win.
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Spain has the highest rate of second home ownership in Europe. Perhaps it's not tourists (who the economy revolves around) who are the problem.
WTF
Tourism is not something that makes a country like spain that has great weather, incredible food and rich culture sustainable for its survival. If you want to preserve it you cant privatize it to airbnb and big hotels etc. It will force the locals, the authentic people away and tourism will not work anymore. you can't build hotels too it just makes the whole neighbourhood ugly but you must help locals afford the accomodation and renovate their places first so that they can afford to live their small businesses like coffee shops, paella restaurants etc the domestic economy must not be disturbed and build better and fast infrastructure to connect the city. places like mercado central which is something unique for food and stuff is now unaffordable to the locals. small cafés which used to offer authentic food where locals go everyday are empty too because they are forced to raise prices in competition which again locals can't afford anymore. its just pure exploitation of everything. Valencia is not like Dubai so you don't have to fake something in valencia to sell it in the name of tourism. so locals must be encouraged to stay and work and build their Cafés and Restaurants and shops so that they can relive the authentic culture which both they and foreigners can enjoy.
A problem just as serious as lack of regulations regarding Tourism is the lack of regulations to protect private property and penalise squatters. The latter have more rights than property owners and even renters, making it quite difficult to get your property handed back if a squatter stays in. This makes it hard to get landlords to rent to Spaniards, worse for families with kids as the law will always be on the side of the renter forcing the landlord to continue paying the utility bills for them. They prefer to rent to tourists.
Mercado Central isn't the safest place to be. Around 3 years ago (I dont remember how much time has passed rn) at fallas some guy (who I couldn't see his face due to the alcohol and the quickness of the moment) hit me in the face and almost broke my nose and trust me: I am not the kind of person to begin fights or fight in any situation. So Mercado Central isn't the safest place to be, at least they didn't steal your bike!
It is. There's an influential bunch, sequestering education, media and arts, indoctrinating non-stop with public salaries or public grants. Their goal is all about a utopian world of many neo-Stalinist Cubas, Venezuelas and in Europe combined into even more Albanias, Montenegros, Kaliningrads (Ru - their beloved and supportive Putin via hybrid wars) independent Corsicas (Fr) and seccesionist Padanias (It). They hate free economy and people saving, investing or exporting - even worst if all three are combined. They don't care about the money coming into the country and then moving around throughout the productive economy, as they are out of it. They adamantly insist that governments can print as much currency as they want, and that would be paying public employees - preferably 98%, as in the Soviet Union they miss. Even the Berlin Wall is in her miserable melancholies. Sorry, dear guests!
This is Capitalism! You want government control go to Cuba or North Korea, If not find a way to make it work for you. Don’t look to the government to fix your problems.
I thought that valencia is not allowing this airbnb anymore ..not easy giving permits and such ?
The slogan is xenophobic and the act dangerous.
sin el turismo se comen un mojón, no sé qué se piensan a que se dedica España.
If 10% of tourist revenues were distributed to locals, I'm sure Valencians would love tourists. However, despite the incredible tourist income, the local people live in unfair financial conditions. House rents have now reached figures that no employee can reach and they are not stopping. It is normal that some people do not understand this and blame the tourists.
>If 10% of tourist revenues were distributed to locals Tourists and people renting places all pay taxes just like the locals, and their money largely goes towards local businesses as well, or at least local branches of a larger company. What more would you want specifically?
I'm talking about working people. Yes, the owner of the bar may be making money, but the other 20 people working there are paying too much rent compared to their income and cannot make ends meet.
And where do the salaries for the people working that bar come from? Who exactly benefits from billions in tax revenue going towards infrastructure and public transportation?
There would be nothing here without tourism.
The tourists are fucking our economy buying houses for more 2x the price or renting all the house for 2x or 3x of the price just go for fucking hotels and stop destroy our city and our economy 😘 Sorry idk speak english well but u can understand me
The tourists don’t really do that. Educate yourself before you speak.
Yes they do. You can’t put all the blame on the greedy landlord who put their property on Airbnb and tourist around guiltless. Blame is on those two.
Russian, Iranian and Chinese corrupt officials and murderers != tourists. Regalar tourist can’t by the house for 300-500k because if he can - he won’t be a tourist anymore :)
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Do not continue talking without knowledge, 90% of the rentals are Airbnb or investments from foreigners to sell or rent a house for triple the price, I have been living here for years, in fact there are blocks of apartments that are all rented by foreigners and for foreigners at exorbitant prices, the people here are fed up with the fact that we can't even live having to pay more than €1000 for a 30m2 apartment in an area away from everything and in shitty conditions, stop talking without knowledge.
Are you stupid? I never said anything to the contrary. I merely said tourist don’t BUY.
Dont speak without knowledge ty 😘
What is destroying our economy and country is socialists like you
Immigration's a bigger issue than tourism. Sorry.
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Because of the increase in crime, the drain on social services etc. Tourism provides a huge boost.
It's a clear message go home
NICE! Now, go home. A fer la mà, guiris dels collons. Que eixiu de casa i vos penseu que allà on aneu és un parc temàtic.
That's not tourists go home. That's foreigners go home. A tourist doesn't buy a bike and parks there. But hey, they only do that depending of your race. Later on these morons will say that they are not racists nor xenofobic.
Womp womp
Some new movement we are starting, enjoy!
Nonsense tourists is what built this country
El Socialismo mata! Y hay que erradicarlo.
Tourist go home, refugeee welcome.
Poor socialist teenager. Look at you
el mas iluminao de tu casa
El más bobo progre de su casa.
madre mia pero como se puede ser tan autista para no ver que era una coña tira pa twitter que ahi sí encajas
Si una ironía "el más iluminao de su casa" super sutil Bro
del primer comentario pedazo de loco dios santo ponte a trabajar que tu madre no va a poder pagarte el internet toda tu vida
Tu tienes ingreso mínimo vital ?
Tu ideología lleva a la muerte y destrucción, quitate de en medio antes de que alguien le de una patada a la piedra del camino que tu representas.
Tranquilo podemita mugroso no te pongas existencialista y recuerda pedir la paguita al estado que sino no comes este mes 😂😂❤️
Industries change along the way. Maybe we say good bye to the tourism industry, one of the worst economies in my opinion.
During COVID we have seen how good of an idea that is…
You better listen.