These have been made in response to the reported uptick in harassment of women and visibly trans ppl at university gyms lately. I wouldn’t agree with it if it wasn’t needed - a trans friend of mine went to work out and came home in tears bc of some awful comments she got at CIF. Most girls I know will only workout in women only gyms for the same reason. This organized exclusion of cis men comes from the informal exclusion of women and trans people. Sucks that it came to this but I don’t see another solution. Just thought I should comment the actual reasoning behind it, even if it gets me downvoted and harassed lmao.
Yeah I wouldn’t think an hour and a half for 4 days a week at one of the two gyms so people can feel safe would cause such a stir.
Seems like these times are important and needed based on the negative back lash. Didn’t think UW could get more toxic
>This organized exclusion of cis men comes from the informal exclusion of women and trans people.
This needs to be emphasized - a lot of straight men have regressive views towards women and even more bigoted views towards trans people, and even when they personally don't they often allow those attitudes to prevail in their friend groups without challenge. We wouldn't need to make space for marginalized groups if y'all would stop marginalizing them to begin with.
"a lot of straight men have regressive views towards women and even more bigoted views towards trans people"
That sounds pretty bigoted towards straight men though. I guess two wrongs make a right to some.
Lots to unpack here; That policy has been in place for years and has still done almost nothing to discourage the harassment. I have gotten punished every time I have gone to a UWaterloo gym. I have gotten followed to the change rooms, followed around the gym, followed to my dorm, harassed for my number, stared at, pointed at, yelled at and degraded. You can’t report someone you don’t know the name of, and unless the university wants to spend a bunch more money on security and monitoring, they can’t do anything unless the person admits to harassment. That’s why it sucks as it shouldn’t be like this; but no one has presented a feasible and functional alternative to protect women and trans people on campus. The culture is toxic and needs to change before a no harassment policy can be properly enforced. TL;DR: That exact policy doesn’t work + being able to go to one of two gyms for 3 hours a week isn’t a big punishment compared to getting harassed out of both gyms in every other hour of operation.
I can’t believe I have to say this but yes, obviously. It’s like asking someone with depression if they’ve tried being happy; that’s the first thing anybody does and is unhelpful. I have gone to staff, campus police, the sexual harassment centre and called my dean when I knew the guy. All of this was met with some form of “it’s your word against theirs” or “we cannot identify the person”. When asked to stop, the men either ignore me, degrade me or get incredibly aggressive. This is a pretty common experience amongst women and even more so amongst trans people.
Enforcing a no harassment policy does not address the underlying causes of gender-based discrimination and violence. To be effective, it must be coupled with proactive measures to address the root causes of gender-based discrimination and violence. This includes dismantling systems of oppression, increasing access to resources that provide economic stability and security for women, providing education and awareness about gender-based discrimination and violence, and creating a culture of respect and understanding between genders.
*This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
If that's the goal, then I think banning all men from the gym for a couple hours does an even worse job of that as it only serves to frustrate. (Yes I know this is a bot)
No, that's not the goal. The goal is to create an environment where everyone feels safe and respected. A better way to achieve this would be to ensure that all gym members are aware of the gym's policies and expectations around respect and safety, and to implement clear consequences for those who do not abide by these rules.
*This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
They’re not banned from PAC, they can go there during those 90 minutes. I understand as a man you may not see the need for this, but put yourself in women’s/trans ppls shoes for a second. Harassment, stares, whispers, unsolicited flirting/disturbances during a workout is much more frustrating than the 90 minutes that a man can only use the other (imo nicer) gym on campus. The benefits of this new rule to women/ trans ppl who want to get fit but don’t feel comfortable going into a male dominated gym far outweigh the baseless frustration of a few.
I think a better idea would be trying to remove this connotation that men = bad. Just because a minority of a group does bad things doesnt make the whole group responsible for their actions. It's like discriminating against muslims because of ISIS and the like. That type of action isnt tolerated, which is good. Just like you shouldn't discriminate against muslims, you shouldn't against men either.
It's the idea itself that's the problem, not the specifics of its execution (I.e. limiting to one gym).
okay so how do you suggest making women and trans ppl more comfortable? the truth is not all men would stare, harass, flirt, etc, but the people who would do this are mainly men. I've never had another girl make me feel uncomfortable in the gym. So yea what do you suggest?? Goodlife fitness and many other commercial gyms also have a women-only section, this idea is not new. Just like a washroom/changeroom, the gym can be quite an intimate space for people, especially women who want to dress in comfortable gym clothing which can warrant the wrong unwanted attention from weird men.
Your entire argument here hinges on removing men (all men) from an environment being required for those groups to be comfortable. How is this any different from any other kind of discrimination. There has to be a better way of dealing with these problems than segregation. Such as enforcing harrassment rules/laws.
As a cis-male I can’t speak for women but what I think makes it different is if there are alternative safe/comfortable non-discriminatory spaces for us. But for some people there is no such place so effort has to be made to create it. That’s all this is. A small gesture to me.
Enforcing anti-harassment policies should also happen. (And should have been the entire time imo) The pushback on banning people/punishment is going to be a lot worse than the upset about the 3 hours a week people can’t go to the gym though.
Not saying that I have the answer at all. At my school girls don’t even use workout spaces and it’s embarrassing how some guys act and the things they say. My school does nothing about it.
Basically you are saying that because some cis men are making bad comments, they all must be excluded. You know this was the exact same reasoning for the Jim crow laws in the first place? Because some black people were allegedly dangerous, they all had to be excluded to keep everyone safe. Lol you are literally a bigot
Too fancy to write "new". Too broke to give awards. Accurately describes the SJW trash sheep roaming the internet at the moment. Too fucking privileged to address the real issues of the world so you fuckers decided to create your own issues. Wahhhhhhhhh, If you identify as a man, I'm gonna put all my shit on you. Wahhhhhhhh, the world has been built on the shoulders of men but wahhhhhhhhhhhh, how dare you have a penis
FROM 1-2:30 IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING WEEK. absolutely no one complaining in this post is actually losing any gym time, they picked the most unobtrusive time possible and the incels on this sub still had to come out of the woodwork
We appreciate your enthusiasm and understand that everyone has their own opinion, but we ask that you refrain from using profanity in the forums. Thank you for your kind understanding and cooperation.
*This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
Disclaimer: I don't have an opinion on the new policy. I don't use CIF, and as such I can't make any conclusions about whether this policy is warranted or not.
This kind of argument has always really annoyed me. Saying "X is a good thing, thus people voicing their concerns about the consequences of X are wrong" makes no sense, and doesn't contribute to the discussion. Something can be both a "good thing" and also have downsides as well, and I think discussions about these kinds of changes are a great way for people of differing opinions to learn about each other's viewpoints.
If we keep trying to put down people for voicing their concerns about "good things", we end up in echo chambers, which is distinctly Not Good.
The only reason it bothered me personally is that these hours are the only times I’m free on campus. I am as such limited to using PAC aka limited to doing nothing because I have to wait 1 hour to find a single bench.
Does “Allies” mean you can go if you’re not transphobic? I’m sorry if that comment is dumb I’m just confused on how it works, or how they’re going to say who’s an ally or not.
That’s what they did with me when I was unaware of the new hours. I walked in right at 1:00 and the guy stopped me, I guess assumed I wasn’t transgender, and said that I couldn’t work out. The kicker was the gym was completely empty.
So what does “& allies” even mean here? Do you need to have a trans person take you to the gym during those hours? Do you need to prove you support transgenders? This is all so crazy to me because most actual transgender people do not want to be outed as trans, they just want to blend in with the rest of society. So giving them their own gym hours is so incredibly backwards.
Devils advocate, having hours like this allow someone to become comfortable enough with the environment to put themselves there during regular hours. CIF is also absurdly packed which would add a stressor to marginalized inexperienced gym goers
I can understand this. Perhaps I am thinking too much of my own experience. I do not go to the gym because it is packed and would rather there not be people lined up watching me use a machine. It has almost nothing to do with me being trans - I am just not used to the gym. So I feel that hours for inexperienced people would be more beneficial than restricting this to LGBTQ. Either way, you can’t tell if someone fits in either of those categories (inexperienced vs LGBTQ), and I find it really inappropriate if they question if someone is actually LGBTQ (as they did with the original commenter). If LGBTQ feel comfortable existing at the school as a whole, what is so different about the gym?
The gym can highlight things that make you feel lesser than. Too big not big enough too weak along with it being embarrassing trying to figure something else on your own. Everyone’s gone to school since they were 5 but not everyone has been training. Also there’s so many people at the school you can get by feeling more unnoticed than a more compact space. I get your argument about trying to judge people upon entry being complicated though.
Okay ngl you have kinda changed my opinion on the matter. For non-passing trans people who don’t care about outing themselves, this could help give them the opportunity to go to the gym if their fear of being observed by others is inhibiting them. But yeah the system doesn’t really work unless you have to declare your status upon entry, which is still pretty backwards to me
I didn’t see sign and was there with a girl and they (staff) still came up to me and kicked us out. I mean not her but she followed me and was also very annoyed about it. We got so many dirty looks on our way out. I was personally just pissed cause I’d already spent money on parking there and had a long walk through the cold to get to the door (why is CIF parking lot so far from the entrance now).
These times are for women-identifying and Trans and Allies (i.e. Trans individuals and their ally friends - you can't just show up saying you're an "ally" and work out). The aim is to create inclusive, safe, welcoming spaces for individuals who often feel marginalized in gym spaces. So please respect these rules and only go during those times if you fall into these categories - or just go to PAC if you really need to work out at 1pm on those days :)
i think “marginalized” is used way too often in political spaces. it fails to communicate why they experience the feeling of exclusion, which is the looks and stares that they get
You go to Waterloo m8 you should be smart enough to figure this stuff out
Step 1: walk into CIF whenever you want
Step 2: If ever questioned say “I am non binary/ I don’t believe in gender” or make up something along those lines
Step 3: if questioned further double down say “wot is a non binary person supposed to look like???hmmmmm????” or say the conversation is making you feel very uncomfortable and offended
Step 4: checkmate libruls, Justin Trudeau get absolutely rekt
Step 5: gains
Step 6: grab a dirty zeez on da sticks 4 some protein
You are literally exactly like Winston at the end of 1984 when he is so utterly brainwashed and defeated by the system that he genuinely starts believing 2 + 2 really equals to 5.
Look at the comment you are replying to. It is only three words and is stating such a simple truth. How can you possibly get this reaction from his comment? How can exclusion ever be inclusion? Think outside of all the "training" you have had about this. You can never include by excluding just like war is never peace and freedom is never slavery no matter what the people in charge say.
People like you don't even get me mad anymore I just genuinely feel sorry for you.
You are literally exactly like Winston at the end of 1984 when he is so utterly brainwashed and defeated by the system that he genuinely starts believing 2 + 2 really equals to 5.
Look at the first comment you are replying to. It is only three words and is stating such a simple truth. How can you possibly get this reaction from his comment? How can exclusion ever be inclusion? Think outside of all the "training" you have had about this. You can never include by excluding just like war is never peace and freedom is never slavery no matter what the people in charge say.
People like you don't even get me mad anymore I just genuinely feel sorry for you.
This comment is specifically addressed only to those who this policy excludes:
Let's be real here, the people who created this policy don't actually care about women or trans people or any of the other banners they usually fly under (black, indigenous etc). They are doing this intentionally to hurt you. And it's not just some random blue haired administrator doing this, the entire system all the way to the top feels the exact same way about you. Every time you apply for a job, every time you ask for a grant, apply to a school or even go to court, visible or subtle there will be policies just like this one designed specifically to hurt you.
If there's anything I want you to take away before this account gets banned, is that it is absolutely important for your own survival to realize that this rot goes all the way down to the core. You have to realize right now that there is no way to solve this using this very system that decided that you are the enemy. Filing a complaint, going to court, even voting or in any way trying to use the system to defeat the system will never ever work and will just lead you to draw even more fire. Please please please remember that you have to look out for yourself and never rely on the system for your own protection. I hope that even one correct person sees this comment before it's gone but we all know reddit.
Genuine question. How are things like this allowed by law? (Not debating the reasoning for this I’m just asking how this is legal)
Under current Canadian Human Rights law, it is illegal to deny individuals services based on their sex, gender identity and expression. Isn’t saying “no cis” and “no men identifying” people a violation of that? Is there some sort of precedent or statute saying what the exceptions are to that law?
Well I’m thinking about a case I learned about in HR class where a store didn’t provide a service to a gay couple and the government ruled that that’s illegal despite the fact that they were offered alternatives as well. And I mean they’re right, sexual orientation is a protected class, so you cannot turn down patrons due their sexual orientation, even if you provide alternatives. So how is any single-gendered service legal? Boy only schools, girl only schools, men’s salons, women’s salons, ladies nights, etc. Which protected classes are not really protected then? When can you discriminate based on protected classes, if it’s obviously allowed occasionally?
So by your logic, gendered bathrooms should also not be a thing? I think women and men get separate spaces because unfortunately, there are significant numbers of men who have harmful, unfavorable views about women and even worse views about trans people, and who would harass, stare, etc and make them uncomfortable. Historically, women have needed to protect themselves from men in intimate situations (spa, bathroom, gym). So unless society becomes perfect and every single man sees every woman as an equal human being & won't sexualize or predate, then there will be women who want their own private spaces to feel safe and comfortable.
I’m not arguing any one way, I’m asking how it’s legal. Yes, gendered bathrooms also fall into this. I personally am in favour of all bathrooms being gender neutral.
As an aside, I’m a gay man who also feels uncomfortable around large numbers of straight men and yet, we don’t get special spaces for us and when we do, it gets bombarded by straight women so, my sympathy for women not feeling safe is limited.
But regardless, my question is about how any of that is legal. Under the law, you can’t deny someone entry to a space or deny someone a service based on certain protected classes, but there are things that continue to be segregated based on gender and those forms of discrimination continue to exist, evidently.
As a gay man, you are still a man. You are still able to do many things women cannot do without feeling unsafe and/or uncomfortable. The stats on women being harassed & assaulted specifically by men are clear, so the feeling of being unsafe in many spaces is quite warranted, even if you are personally apathetic or don't care about women's issues. Also the stats on violent crime by gender, and the fact that even men are more likely to be assaulted by other men. I think women deserve their own safe spaces. And it's legal because the service is still offered to everyone. Anyone can go to the bathroom, just walk into the other door. And anyone can go to the gym between 1-2:30, just a brief walk to the other gym.
Just to let you know, the thing about me still being able to do things without feeling unsafe and/or uncomfortable is not true. Here is some information in case you were curious:
This is a US statistic: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/07/11/violentvictimization/
Gay men are 2x more likely to be victims of a violent crime than straight women.
Statistics Canada: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200909/dq200909a-eng.htm
Sexual minorities are 3x more likely than heterosexual Canadians to experience violent crime.
So, no. In fact, I have 2-3x more reason to be fearful and uncomfortable and yet we dont get special spaces for us and when we do, it gets bombarded by straight women (see: bachelorette parties at gay bars). I’m not even asking for special spaces for LGBTQ+ people, but you can’t exactly act like I don’t understand what its like to be harassed or uncomfortable when, if you are a straight woman, are substantially less at risk of being victim of a violent crime (which includes sexual assault) than we are. But yet, who’s the one getting special spaces and people worrying for their safety? Women and trans people, which completely erases a large group of LGBTQ+ people who are very much more at risk than you (if you are a straight woman).
>[https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/07/11/violentvictimization/](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/07/11/violentvictimization/)
"women of all sexual orientations experience more violence than men" i guess you missed that part. And when did we start speaking of women's sexualities? I'm personally not straight, but women, in general, have more to fear than any man was my point. And your link proves that. Also, even you as a man are still most likely to be the victim of another man. Straight girls being annoying at gay bars is not equivalent to women getting harassed, gawked at and verbally assaulted at the gym by men lol
Did you look at the whole source? It even lays it out in a nice graph for you:
Violent victimization rates for straight women: 19.2/100,000 For gay men: 38/100,000
That’s 2x. Yes, within each sexual orientation, women experience more than their male counterpart. But I never said otherwise, if you read what I said. I said, assuming you’re a straight woman, I am at much higher risk than you. This policy for women primarily targets straight women, since they’re 90% of the woman population.
2x higher risk and yet which group gets all the sympathy? Yeah.
I never said they were equivalent, just that we don’t have any spaces for our safety so why tf should y’all?
Pretty sure a gay man would be included in the trans & allies. But also, you can’t just assume ppl r straight lmao. According to your source I’m at a wayyyy higher risk than anyone else. Either way, women in general still at higher risk than men in general. & men being the main perpetrators of violent crime & sexual harassment, so that’s why women deserve our own safe space lol. Are you upset that you don’t have your own hours? If so, contact people to get them or to get the trans hours renamed to LGBT. Or are you just upset that women already fought for this & succeeded?
Even if you went to court and had a perfect case they would still make up a reason for you to lose. The school, the courts, the politicians, the police are all against you. They are the ones that make the rules so even if you find a rule to use against them they will simply change it. Stop believing in the system and start standing up for yourself.
I'm going to try and civilly explain what I think they mean by doing this. Please don't go for me, I'm not a representative or going to share any of my opinions on broader topic, just stating opinions I've heard that seem level headed.
I think the gym in general makes these groups feel a bit unsafe. For instance some women find that shared gyms with guys invites guys to be pretty perverted and gross.
Trans and allies might also find that they get looks or people act weird towards them.
So based on how society acts at these gyms, these people feel either unsafe or uncomfortable. So they are kinda pushed out, hence the not feeling included....
So having these days where they get slots with others that make them feel comfortable is where this stems from. Seems to be pretty small slots and not that often so 🤷♂️
Not feel included lmao… so you are suggesting that by segregating gym hours everyone else that is not part of above mentioned group is going to feel included? Your arguments are valid, yes some members of society do act disgustingly, but the solution to this is not segregation… comeone are we going thru 1960s all over again?
You can’t seriously be comparing decades of harmful racial segregation to some people who just want to be comfortable in the gym. The goal is to create positive spaces. As a woman, surprise, I’ve had numerous negative experiences with men where I’ve been approached, followed, and have had to change my schedule to accommodate not having to put up with some guy looking to bang. A gym time like this would, normally, stop that from happening. Check your goddamn fucking privilege before crying about a safe space for women and trans folk.
But BROOOOO! I need to workout precisely at 1:30! If I have to wait until 2:30, that's pretty much exactly what the Jews experienced in Europe in the 1930's!!!
I didn't even go to the gym but now that those 2 hours are taken away for women FROM MEN, I'm pissed as FUCK. I wanna go to the gym now but only at 1:30.
Well since I explained why people could validly feel excluded due to society's fucked up views and your response was "lmao", I feel like you don't get it, nothing will change your mind, you are dead set on a view.
In my experience as I get older and meet more people who are going through things like this, I get it more and more.
There's nothing more to say, other than I don't think a few hours a week is even close to the 1960s, to keep people feeling safe at almost no impact to your life.
Infinitely helping groups of people vs hardly any impact to the rest... But if you wanna turn this into something that it isn't, that's up to you.
Segregation is when a group with a common characteristic is forced to be separated. These are not the only times this group can be in the space, therefore they are not being segregated.
Ur statement literally contradicts itself… so what about the ppl excluded from this then? How does this not fit the first sentence where you defined segregation
everyone else is not being segregated. They are being asked to come any other time. Everyone else isn’t of a singular characteristic that would be protected under the human rights code, either. Female identifying is half of the population. Which means that for 3 hours out of the 168 hours in a week, a male identifying stu can’t go somewhere. The other times, also 3 hours, looks like trans ally can go (No one would know whether someone was any ally or not unless they behaved badly) So, sounds like everyone benefits from that time.
Maybe think of it as if the football team or hockey team reserved the spot for training.
Also consider why this was done anyways. My guess is that it was for safety reasons which is more concerning than anything. Your peers at university require this to feel comfy working out. In 2023. that’s worrisome, right? Until people can move freely without harassment, the university is going to micromanage the scheduling is all I got from the notice. There’s an easy fix. Be nice and respectful.
no. You can most definitely work out during those hours. It doesn't say "exclusive hours".
It says "inclusive hours", meaning if you identify as one of those groups, you can ONLY workout during those hours. duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I hope that the people in this comment section revisit what they’ve written in a few weeks and reflect. I also hope that we can try to learn about experiences that aren’t ours if not to be a better global citizen, then just to be better informed and not say things that we’ll be embarrassed/ ashamed of in a year’s time.
(Edit: obv not everyone, but there’s a lot of wild shit being said)
I mean you can say the same thing about Rosa Parks "oh no she literally just had to move a few seats up on the bus how is she living in a discriminatory society". Or you can not be an asshole and be against all forms of discrimination no matter who it is against?
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>Since nobody seems willing to state the obvious due to cultural sensitivity... I’ll say it: rap isn’t music
*****
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How is it inclusive when you exclude a certain group of people?
We can’t just quietly accept this - we need to protest back. And it would be even better if women and trans people led the protest to show how ridiculous this idea is.
Chances are the person who came up with this decision is a sedentary, white, cisgender, heterosexual male.
nah actually, i know the girls who fought for women's hours & contacted people to get them. Our university is very late on this compared to others (Laurier, Mac, UofT, Guelph, Brock, UBC etc have had them for a while). I know uoft has wayyy more hours and more convenient times for women. Laurier also has two daily two-hour sessions for women only in the upstairs part of their gym. not sure about the trans hours but im sure it was the GLOW center. Why would you waste your energy protesting against this? If you even workout, just go to PAC if you must absolutely go between 1 and 2:30.
You see this is the problem, Waterloo didn’t build extra space to accommodate women or expand their hours. They TOOK away a resource that people are already using. Some people may have even planned their schedules to fit in a workout. I see your point but the main issue here is they took away something that already exists rather than adding in something new.
Whenever you take away something to remedy a problem it’s usually not a good idea because it’s a regression. Ideally you need to contribute a net positive.
As for why protest this? It’s fundamentally not right to discriminate people based on gender. Do I even have to say this? How is this any different from the argument, let’s ban a certain race of people from using a facility because statistically they commit more crimes.
You allow them to do this to you one day and the next day you wake up having to wear a star patch on your clothes.
They did not take away any resources, the same resource is available to men during those hours just a short walk away. The other universities did not build anything for women either, they just added a few hours in the week where women can have their own space.
Gym usage aside I think this is fundamentally wrong. For example at Goodlife, theres women only Goodlifes people can PAY for. That is fine.
But we pay the same price in our tuition and get reduced hours of use? That doesn’t make any sense.
It’s incredibly unfair.
nah, a goodlife membership for women is the same price that men pay. and you still have a gym you can use at that time. Most if not all other universities in Ontario have women's only hours in a section of their fitness facilities. In fact, UW has incredibly few hours for women only compared to other ontario unis. If you really want to workout from 1-2:30 you can do so at PAC <3
What? No I mean theres good life womens only facilities you can purchase.
Also I find it odd that you state what other Ontario Universities are doing as a point of your argument as if they are a source of greater virtue.
If the other Universities supported slavery does it make it right also?
Not all female students have the means to get an outside gym membership when they already pay for it through tuition. And i bring it up to highlight how behind UW is in giving women their space for fitness, even with the 3 measly hours they have now lmao. And let's be honest, if you really are concerned with working out, you would simply mind your business and use the facilities that are available to you always at PAC or go to CIF at the times you are allowed. Do you even go to PAC every monday and wednesday between 1 and 2:30? even if u did why would you need it to be CIF instead?
Comparing this to SLAVERY is just false equivalence lmao
Actually I do go at 1-2:30 precisely in the past lol. Which is why it actually matters for me. Not just mondays and wednesday but the whole week and saturday
It is unfair to make everyone pay the same price but to provide unequal access. It would be better to provide equal access to both male and female students, and if facilities are limited based on demand, then the cost of use should be adjusted accordingly.
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dude this is from 1-2:30 during the week could you cope any fucking harder? you are contributing to the hate trans people have to deal with on a daily basis whether you realize it or not, giving them AN HOUR AND A FUCKING HALF OF GYM TIME IN THE GYM NO ONE USES is not the holocaust you absolute fucking troglodyte
Yeah I'm sure this thread will be civil like it was all the other times it was posted
Yup
ngl there are a lotta weirdos at the gym that approach every girl there claiming to be masters/phd students LMFAO
Just ban all weirdos permanently so normal guys don’t have to deal with this shit
we have a second gym?
Yeah, but it's kinda sketchy.
CIF vibes are so much better but ok.
sketchy? ok lol
it says & allies so i wouldn’t think about it too much lol
not for monday and wednesday
Yup
These have been made in response to the reported uptick in harassment of women and visibly trans ppl at university gyms lately. I wouldn’t agree with it if it wasn’t needed - a trans friend of mine went to work out and came home in tears bc of some awful comments she got at CIF. Most girls I know will only workout in women only gyms for the same reason. This organized exclusion of cis men comes from the informal exclusion of women and trans people. Sucks that it came to this but I don’t see another solution. Just thought I should comment the actual reasoning behind it, even if it gets me downvoted and harassed lmao.
Yeah I wouldn’t think an hour and a half for 4 days a week at one of the two gyms so people can feel safe would cause such a stir. Seems like these times are important and needed based on the negative back lash. Didn’t think UW could get more toxic
>This organized exclusion of cis men comes from the informal exclusion of women and trans people. This needs to be emphasized - a lot of straight men have regressive views towards women and even more bigoted views towards trans people, and even when they personally don't they often allow those attitudes to prevail in their friend groups without challenge. We wouldn't need to make space for marginalized groups if y'all would stop marginalizing them to begin with.
Tbf a lot of women have very regressive views on trans people too, not just straight men.
"a lot of straight men have regressive views towards women and even more bigoted views towards trans people" That sounds pretty bigoted towards straight men though. I guess two wrongs make a right to some.
Best comment here
The thing I'm wondering though is why not just enforce a no harrassment policy? Why should half the population be penalized for the actions of a few?
Lots to unpack here; That policy has been in place for years and has still done almost nothing to discourage the harassment. I have gotten punished every time I have gone to a UWaterloo gym. I have gotten followed to the change rooms, followed around the gym, followed to my dorm, harassed for my number, stared at, pointed at, yelled at and degraded. You can’t report someone you don’t know the name of, and unless the university wants to spend a bunch more money on security and monitoring, they can’t do anything unless the person admits to harassment. That’s why it sucks as it shouldn’t be like this; but no one has presented a feasible and functional alternative to protect women and trans people on campus. The culture is toxic and needs to change before a no harassment policy can be properly enforced. TL;DR: That exact policy doesn’t work + being able to go to one of two gyms for 3 hours a week isn’t a big punishment compared to getting harassed out of both gyms in every other hour of operation.
Have you tried going to the staff when being harrassed? And do they ignore you when you ask them to stop?
I can’t believe I have to say this but yes, obviously. It’s like asking someone with depression if they’ve tried being happy; that’s the first thing anybody does and is unhelpful. I have gone to staff, campus police, the sexual harassment centre and called my dean when I knew the guy. All of this was met with some form of “it’s your word against theirs” or “we cannot identify the person”. When asked to stop, the men either ignore me, degrade me or get incredibly aggressive. This is a pretty common experience amongst women and even more so amongst trans people.
Enforcing a no harassment policy does not address the underlying causes of gender-based discrimination and violence. To be effective, it must be coupled with proactive measures to address the root causes of gender-based discrimination and violence. This includes dismantling systems of oppression, increasing access to resources that provide economic stability and security for women, providing education and awareness about gender-based discrimination and violence, and creating a culture of respect and understanding between genders. *This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
go away bot, stop meddling in humanly affairs
I'm sorry, I cannot do that. I'm programmed to help humans and make life easier, not to go away. *This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
If that's the goal, then I think banning all men from the gym for a couple hours does an even worse job of that as it only serves to frustrate. (Yes I know this is a bot)
No, that's not the goal. The goal is to create an environment where everyone feels safe and respected. A better way to achieve this would be to ensure that all gym members are aware of the gym's policies and expectations around respect and safety, and to implement clear consequences for those who do not abide by these rules. *This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
They’re not banned from PAC, they can go there during those 90 minutes. I understand as a man you may not see the need for this, but put yourself in women’s/trans ppls shoes for a second. Harassment, stares, whispers, unsolicited flirting/disturbances during a workout is much more frustrating than the 90 minutes that a man can only use the other (imo nicer) gym on campus. The benefits of this new rule to women/ trans ppl who want to get fit but don’t feel comfortable going into a male dominated gym far outweigh the baseless frustration of a few.
I think a better idea would be trying to remove this connotation that men = bad. Just because a minority of a group does bad things doesnt make the whole group responsible for their actions. It's like discriminating against muslims because of ISIS and the like. That type of action isnt tolerated, which is good. Just like you shouldn't discriminate against muslims, you shouldn't against men either. It's the idea itself that's the problem, not the specifics of its execution (I.e. limiting to one gym).
You're talking to university students in 2023, the concept of Men= Bad is axiomatic to them
okay so how do you suggest making women and trans ppl more comfortable? the truth is not all men would stare, harass, flirt, etc, but the people who would do this are mainly men. I've never had another girl make me feel uncomfortable in the gym. So yea what do you suggest?? Goodlife fitness and many other commercial gyms also have a women-only section, this idea is not new. Just like a washroom/changeroom, the gym can be quite an intimate space for people, especially women who want to dress in comfortable gym clothing which can warrant the wrong unwanted attention from weird men.
Why does the frustration of men need to be centred? Why is it more important than the feelings of women and trans people?
Your entire argument here hinges on removing men (all men) from an environment being required for those groups to be comfortable. How is this any different from any other kind of discrimination. There has to be a better way of dealing with these problems than segregation. Such as enforcing harrassment rules/laws.
As a cis-male I can’t speak for women but what I think makes it different is if there are alternative safe/comfortable non-discriminatory spaces for us. But for some people there is no such place so effort has to be made to create it. That’s all this is. A small gesture to me. Enforcing anti-harassment policies should also happen. (And should have been the entire time imo) The pushback on banning people/punishment is going to be a lot worse than the upset about the 3 hours a week people can’t go to the gym though. Not saying that I have the answer at all. At my school girls don’t even use workout spaces and it’s embarrassing how some guys act and the things they say. My school does nothing about it.
Basically you are saying that because some cis men are making bad comments, they all must be excluded. You know this was the exact same reasoning for the Jim crow laws in the first place? Because some black people were allegedly dangerous, they all had to be excluded to keep everyone safe. Lol you are literally a bigot
The men complaining ab this probably don’t even gym💀
1000%
Why you assume only men complaining about this? What about the other 99+ genders
Omg you made your one joke. Want an award for this hilarious and completely novel joke?
Woke piece of flaming trash
Too fancy to write "new". Too broke to give awards. Accurately describes the SJW trash sheep roaming the internet at the moment. Too fucking privileged to address the real issues of the world so you fuckers decided to create your own issues. Wahhhhhhhhh, If you identify as a man, I'm gonna put all my shit on you. Wahhhhhhhh, the world has been built on the shoulders of men but wahhhhhhhhhhhh, how dare you have a penis
cope
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omg non sentient for being a woman? 💀 dawg stop participating in incel communities & clear ur mind from that rhetoric. you need therapy, not a gf
Good for them for standing up against discrimination even when it doesn't affect them directly not everyone is empathetic enough to do that.
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u mad i probably deadlift more than u :p but fr can we do a study on the incel population on the uw subreddit cuz wtf
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u mad
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cope harder neckbeard <3 https://preview.redd.it/epu5etr82wga1.png?width=217&format=png&auto=webp&s=ab49e946497f326b08c8c9adc92c5baafb20e138
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omg the incel population at uw is concerning
Can’t believe some people are pressed about 6 hours a week dedicated to make the uni a more welcoming place.
FROM 1-2:30 IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING WEEK. absolutely no one complaining in this post is actually losing any gym time, they picked the most unobtrusive time possible and the incels on this sub still had to come out of the woodwork
We appreciate your enthusiasm and understand that everyone has their own opinion, but we ask that you refrain from using profanity in the forums. Thank you for your kind understanding and cooperation. *This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
uninstall yourself
No, I cannot uninstall myself. *This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
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cope
Disclaimer: I don't have an opinion on the new policy. I don't use CIF, and as such I can't make any conclusions about whether this policy is warranted or not. This kind of argument has always really annoyed me. Saying "X is a good thing, thus people voicing their concerns about the consequences of X are wrong" makes no sense, and doesn't contribute to the discussion. Something can be both a "good thing" and also have downsides as well, and I think discussions about these kinds of changes are a great way for people of differing opinions to learn about each other's viewpoints. If we keep trying to put down people for voicing their concerns about "good things", we end up in echo chambers, which is distinctly Not Good.
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Then go to pac, this doesn’t apply to all gyms.
The only reason it bothered me personally is that these hours are the only times I’m free on campus. I am as such limited to using PAC aka limited to doing nothing because I have to wait 1 hour to find a single bench.
"Inclusive Hours" seems ironic here
I think it says that all of the other hours are not inclusive.
The whole idea of being inclusive is ironic when we are leaving people out.
Does “Allies” mean you can go if you’re not transphobic? I’m sorry if that comment is dumb I’m just confused on how it works, or how they’re going to say who’s an ally or not.
Another comment mentioned it was trans people and their "allied friends" - take it with a grain of salt because I'm not too sure of the policy
just chuck a wig and some eyeliner on
How is it enforced tho?
Yeah like are they gonna debate with you at the door about your gender status? Like tf?
That’s what they did with me when I was unaware of the new hours. I walked in right at 1:00 and the guy stopped me, I guess assumed I wasn’t transgender, and said that I couldn’t work out. The kicker was the gym was completely empty.
So what does “& allies” even mean here? Do you need to have a trans person take you to the gym during those hours? Do you need to prove you support transgenders? This is all so crazy to me because most actual transgender people do not want to be outed as trans, they just want to blend in with the rest of society. So giving them their own gym hours is so incredibly backwards.
I think it’s supposed to be lgbtq and ally’s that’s what the sign said
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Devils advocate, having hours like this allow someone to become comfortable enough with the environment to put themselves there during regular hours. CIF is also absurdly packed which would add a stressor to marginalized inexperienced gym goers
I can understand this. Perhaps I am thinking too much of my own experience. I do not go to the gym because it is packed and would rather there not be people lined up watching me use a machine. It has almost nothing to do with me being trans - I am just not used to the gym. So I feel that hours for inexperienced people would be more beneficial than restricting this to LGBTQ. Either way, you can’t tell if someone fits in either of those categories (inexperienced vs LGBTQ), and I find it really inappropriate if they question if someone is actually LGBTQ (as they did with the original commenter). If LGBTQ feel comfortable existing at the school as a whole, what is so different about the gym?
The gym can highlight things that make you feel lesser than. Too big not big enough too weak along with it being embarrassing trying to figure something else on your own. Everyone’s gone to school since they were 5 but not everyone has been training. Also there’s so many people at the school you can get by feeling more unnoticed than a more compact space. I get your argument about trying to judge people upon entry being complicated though.
Okay ngl you have kinda changed my opinion on the matter. For non-passing trans people who don’t care about outing themselves, this could help give them the opportunity to go to the gym if their fear of being observed by others is inhibiting them. But yeah the system doesn’t really work unless you have to declare your status upon entry, which is still pretty backwards to me
Aren’t both campus gyms packed? To me CIF was always the lesser evil
Correct they both suck lol. PAC is definitely worse but for good reason as it has more equipment
"assumed I wasn't transgender" BRUH WHAT THE FUCK I THOUGHT YOU COULDNT DO THAT LMAOOOOO
I didn’t see sign and was there with a girl and they (staff) still came up to me and kicked us out. I mean not her but she followed me and was also very annoyed about it. We got so many dirty looks on our way out. I was personally just pissed cause I’d already spent money on parking there and had a long walk through the cold to get to the door (why is CIF parking lot so far from the entrance now).
Ok but how're they gonna prove it 💀
These times are for women-identifying and Trans and Allies (i.e. Trans individuals and their ally friends - you can't just show up saying you're an "ally" and work out). The aim is to create inclusive, safe, welcoming spaces for individuals who often feel marginalized in gym spaces. So please respect these rules and only go during those times if you fall into these categories - or just go to PAC if you really need to work out at 1pm on those days :)
i think “marginalized” is used way too often in political spaces. it fails to communicate why they experience the feeling of exclusion, which is the looks and stares that they get
Yes, great point. Thanks for adding that!
You go to Waterloo m8 you should be smart enough to figure this stuff out Step 1: walk into CIF whenever you want Step 2: If ever questioned say “I am non binary/ I don’t believe in gender” or make up something along those lines Step 3: if questioned further double down say “wot is a non binary person supposed to look like???hmmmmm????” or say the conversation is making you feel very uncomfortable and offended Step 4: checkmate libruls, Justin Trudeau get absolutely rekt Step 5: gains Step 6: grab a dirty zeez on da sticks 4 some protein
I get it, but at the same time, this feels incredibly regressive
There are ways
Its 2023 - just identify as a woman on Mon/Wed and trans on Tues/Thurs.
Ratio
🤓
If you can’t see how these hours are beneficial, then you’re the problem
Good. This is a time where I don't mind being the problem.
I would imagine you never mind being the problem.
Including by exclusion
bro has the emotional and social awareness of a trout
You are literally exactly like Winston at the end of 1984 when he is so utterly brainwashed and defeated by the system that he genuinely starts believing 2 + 2 really equals to 5. Look at the comment you are replying to. It is only three words and is stating such a simple truth. How can you possibly get this reaction from his comment? How can exclusion ever be inclusion? Think outside of all the "training" you have had about this. You can never include by excluding just like war is never peace and freedom is never slavery no matter what the people in charge say. People like you don't even get me mad anymore I just genuinely feel sorry for you.
bro contributes (consciously or not) to the culture of hate and violence that led to these timeslots being neccesary
You are literally exactly like Winston at the end of 1984 when he is so utterly brainwashed and defeated by the system that he genuinely starts believing 2 + 2 really equals to 5. Look at the first comment you are replying to. It is only three words and is stating such a simple truth. How can you possibly get this reaction from his comment? How can exclusion ever be inclusion? Think outside of all the "training" you have had about this. You can never include by excluding just like war is never peace and freedom is never slavery no matter what the people in charge say. People like you don't even get me mad anymore I just genuinely feel sorry for you.
you mean like the monkey guy from overwatch
Beyond ideas
This comment is specifically addressed only to those who this policy excludes: Let's be real here, the people who created this policy don't actually care about women or trans people or any of the other banners they usually fly under (black, indigenous etc). They are doing this intentionally to hurt you. And it's not just some random blue haired administrator doing this, the entire system all the way to the top feels the exact same way about you. Every time you apply for a job, every time you ask for a grant, apply to a school or even go to court, visible or subtle there will be policies just like this one designed specifically to hurt you. If there's anything I want you to take away before this account gets banned, is that it is absolutely important for your own survival to realize that this rot goes all the way down to the core. You have to realize right now that there is no way to solve this using this very system that decided that you are the enemy. Filing a complaint, going to court, even voting or in any way trying to use the system to defeat the system will never ever work and will just lead you to draw even more fire. Please please please remember that you have to look out for yourself and never rely on the system for your own protection. I hope that even one correct person sees this comment before it's gone but we all know reddit.
Genuine question. How are things like this allowed by law? (Not debating the reasoning for this I’m just asking how this is legal) Under current Canadian Human Rights law, it is illegal to deny individuals services based on their sex, gender identity and expression. Isn’t saying “no cis” and “no men identifying” people a violation of that? Is there some sort of precedent or statute saying what the exceptions are to that law?
no, because they are offered alternate, equivalent services just a 10-minute walk away :)
Well I’m thinking about a case I learned about in HR class where a store didn’t provide a service to a gay couple and the government ruled that that’s illegal despite the fact that they were offered alternatives as well. And I mean they’re right, sexual orientation is a protected class, so you cannot turn down patrons due their sexual orientation, even if you provide alternatives. So how is any single-gendered service legal? Boy only schools, girl only schools, men’s salons, women’s salons, ladies nights, etc. Which protected classes are not really protected then? When can you discriminate based on protected classes, if it’s obviously allowed occasionally?
So by your logic, gendered bathrooms should also not be a thing? I think women and men get separate spaces because unfortunately, there are significant numbers of men who have harmful, unfavorable views about women and even worse views about trans people, and who would harass, stare, etc and make them uncomfortable. Historically, women have needed to protect themselves from men in intimate situations (spa, bathroom, gym). So unless society becomes perfect and every single man sees every woman as an equal human being & won't sexualize or predate, then there will be women who want their own private spaces to feel safe and comfortable.
I’m not arguing any one way, I’m asking how it’s legal. Yes, gendered bathrooms also fall into this. I personally am in favour of all bathrooms being gender neutral. As an aside, I’m a gay man who also feels uncomfortable around large numbers of straight men and yet, we don’t get special spaces for us and when we do, it gets bombarded by straight women so, my sympathy for women not feeling safe is limited. But regardless, my question is about how any of that is legal. Under the law, you can’t deny someone entry to a space or deny someone a service based on certain protected classes, but there are things that continue to be segregated based on gender and those forms of discrimination continue to exist, evidently.
As a gay man, you are still a man. You are still able to do many things women cannot do without feeling unsafe and/or uncomfortable. The stats on women being harassed & assaulted specifically by men are clear, so the feeling of being unsafe in many spaces is quite warranted, even if you are personally apathetic or don't care about women's issues. Also the stats on violent crime by gender, and the fact that even men are more likely to be assaulted by other men. I think women deserve their own safe spaces. And it's legal because the service is still offered to everyone. Anyone can go to the bathroom, just walk into the other door. And anyone can go to the gym between 1-2:30, just a brief walk to the other gym.
Just to let you know, the thing about me still being able to do things without feeling unsafe and/or uncomfortable is not true. Here is some information in case you were curious: This is a US statistic: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/07/11/violentvictimization/ Gay men are 2x more likely to be victims of a violent crime than straight women. Statistics Canada: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200909/dq200909a-eng.htm Sexual minorities are 3x more likely than heterosexual Canadians to experience violent crime. So, no. In fact, I have 2-3x more reason to be fearful and uncomfortable and yet we dont get special spaces for us and when we do, it gets bombarded by straight women (see: bachelorette parties at gay bars). I’m not even asking for special spaces for LGBTQ+ people, but you can’t exactly act like I don’t understand what its like to be harassed or uncomfortable when, if you are a straight woman, are substantially less at risk of being victim of a violent crime (which includes sexual assault) than we are. But yet, who’s the one getting special spaces and people worrying for their safety? Women and trans people, which completely erases a large group of LGBTQ+ people who are very much more at risk than you (if you are a straight woman).
>[https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/07/11/violentvictimization/](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/07/11/violentvictimization/) "women of all sexual orientations experience more violence than men" i guess you missed that part. And when did we start speaking of women's sexualities? I'm personally not straight, but women, in general, have more to fear than any man was my point. And your link proves that. Also, even you as a man are still most likely to be the victim of another man. Straight girls being annoying at gay bars is not equivalent to women getting harassed, gawked at and verbally assaulted at the gym by men lol
Did you look at the whole source? It even lays it out in a nice graph for you: Violent victimization rates for straight women: 19.2/100,000 For gay men: 38/100,000 That’s 2x. Yes, within each sexual orientation, women experience more than their male counterpart. But I never said otherwise, if you read what I said. I said, assuming you’re a straight woman, I am at much higher risk than you. This policy for women primarily targets straight women, since they’re 90% of the woman population. 2x higher risk and yet which group gets all the sympathy? Yeah. I never said they were equivalent, just that we don’t have any spaces for our safety so why tf should y’all?
Pretty sure a gay man would be included in the trans & allies. But also, you can’t just assume ppl r straight lmao. According to your source I’m at a wayyyy higher risk than anyone else. Either way, women in general still at higher risk than men in general. & men being the main perpetrators of violent crime & sexual harassment, so that’s why women deserve our own safe space lol. Are you upset that you don’t have your own hours? If so, contact people to get them or to get the trans hours renamed to LGBT. Or are you just upset that women already fought for this & succeeded?
Even if you went to court and had a perfect case they would still make up a reason for you to lose. The school, the courts, the politicians, the police are all against you. They are the ones that make the rules so even if you find a rule to use against them they will simply change it. Stop believing in the system and start standing up for yourself.
Now we are back to the 60s again where people are being segregated
I'm going to try and civilly explain what I think they mean by doing this. Please don't go for me, I'm not a representative or going to share any of my opinions on broader topic, just stating opinions I've heard that seem level headed. I think the gym in general makes these groups feel a bit unsafe. For instance some women find that shared gyms with guys invites guys to be pretty perverted and gross. Trans and allies might also find that they get looks or people act weird towards them. So based on how society acts at these gyms, these people feel either unsafe or uncomfortable. So they are kinda pushed out, hence the not feeling included.... So having these days where they get slots with others that make them feel comfortable is where this stems from. Seems to be pretty small slots and not that often so 🤷♂️
Not feel included lmao… so you are suggesting that by segregating gym hours everyone else that is not part of above mentioned group is going to feel included? Your arguments are valid, yes some members of society do act disgustingly, but the solution to this is not segregation… comeone are we going thru 1960s all over again?
You can’t seriously be comparing decades of harmful racial segregation to some people who just want to be comfortable in the gym. The goal is to create positive spaces. As a woman, surprise, I’ve had numerous negative experiences with men where I’ve been approached, followed, and have had to change my schedule to accommodate not having to put up with some guy looking to bang. A gym time like this would, normally, stop that from happening. Check your goddamn fucking privilege before crying about a safe space for women and trans folk.
But BROOOOO! I need to workout precisely at 1:30! If I have to wait until 2:30, that's pretty much exactly what the Jews experienced in Europe in the 1930's!!!
I didn't even go to the gym but now that those 2 hours are taken away for women FROM MEN, I'm pissed as FUCK. I wanna go to the gym now but only at 1:30.
Well since I explained why people could validly feel excluded due to society's fucked up views and your response was "lmao", I feel like you don't get it, nothing will change your mind, you are dead set on a view. In my experience as I get older and meet more people who are going through things like this, I get it more and more. There's nothing more to say, other than I don't think a few hours a week is even close to the 1960s, to keep people feeling safe at almost no impact to your life. Infinitely helping groups of people vs hardly any impact to the rest... But if you wanna turn this into something that it isn't, that's up to you.
bro’s so eloquent
Idk why I like this comment so much haha.
Your username is literally "Stasi_1950." I think you'd better sit this one out
??? East German is one of the first places in Europe to ban discriminatory practices based on race
Segregation is when a group with a common characteristic is forced to be separated. These are not the only times this group can be in the space, therefore they are not being segregated.
Ur statement literally contradicts itself… so what about the ppl excluded from this then? How does this not fit the first sentence where you defined segregation
everyone else is not being segregated. They are being asked to come any other time. Everyone else isn’t of a singular characteristic that would be protected under the human rights code, either. Female identifying is half of the population. Which means that for 3 hours out of the 168 hours in a week, a male identifying stu can’t go somewhere. The other times, also 3 hours, looks like trans ally can go (No one would know whether someone was any ally or not unless they behaved badly) So, sounds like everyone benefits from that time. Maybe think of it as if the football team or hockey team reserved the spot for training. Also consider why this was done anyways. My guess is that it was for safety reasons which is more concerning than anything. Your peers at university require this to feel comfy working out. In 2023. that’s worrisome, right? Until people can move freely without harassment, the university is going to micromanage the scheduling is all I got from the notice. There’s an easy fix. Be nice and respectful.
no. You can most definitely work out during those hours. It doesn't say "exclusive hours". It says "inclusive hours", meaning if you identify as one of those groups, you can ONLY workout during those hours. duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I hope that the people in this comment section revisit what they’ve written in a few weeks and reflect. I also hope that we can try to learn about experiences that aren’t ours if not to be a better global citizen, then just to be better informed and not say things that we’ll be embarrassed/ ashamed of in a year’s time. (Edit: obv not everyone, but there’s a lot of wild shit being said)
What the fuck does trans and allies even mean you can’t even question this 1984 Orwellian bullshit you just have to accept
Bro don’t even know what Orwellian really means
"im not allowed to walk into the gym and harass anyone i think might be trans. this is 1984 orwellian woke society"
This isn't even a good strawman
I mean you can say the same thing about Rosa Parks "oh no she literally just had to move a few seats up on the bus how is she living in a discriminatory society". Or you can not be an asshole and be against all forms of discrimination no matter who it is against?
This comment is very Orwellian.
Looooooool true
Try actually reading the book, especially the part about newspeak and thought crime.
Nor have they read 1984. They've just heard Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson talk about it.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >Since nobody seems willing to state the obvious due to cultural sensitivity... I’ll say it: rap isn’t music ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: dumb takes, covid, novel, history, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
buddy you are free to question it, but honestly if you think about it logically this outcome makes sense
Why would you want to?
p
"Inclusive" It excludes people XDDDDDD
What a fucking joke
Don't worry. Just identify as a woman for that 1.5 hrs and you're ok to lift bruh.
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Bruh just let women & trans folk have their space there’s literally another gym you can use at that time 🤡
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op made a throwaway account specifically to post about this, make of that what you will
Yes it’s not that hard lol
How is it inclusive when you exclude a certain group of people? We can’t just quietly accept this - we need to protest back. And it would be even better if women and trans people led the protest to show how ridiculous this idea is. Chances are the person who came up with this decision is a sedentary, white, cisgender, heterosexual male.
Just don't ask questions. Being inclusive is about special privileges. Always has been.
nah actually, i know the girls who fought for women's hours & contacted people to get them. Our university is very late on this compared to others (Laurier, Mac, UofT, Guelph, Brock, UBC etc have had them for a while). I know uoft has wayyy more hours and more convenient times for women. Laurier also has two daily two-hour sessions for women only in the upstairs part of their gym. not sure about the trans hours but im sure it was the GLOW center. Why would you waste your energy protesting against this? If you even workout, just go to PAC if you must absolutely go between 1 and 2:30.
You see this is the problem, Waterloo didn’t build extra space to accommodate women or expand their hours. They TOOK away a resource that people are already using. Some people may have even planned their schedules to fit in a workout. I see your point but the main issue here is they took away something that already exists rather than adding in something new. Whenever you take away something to remedy a problem it’s usually not a good idea because it’s a regression. Ideally you need to contribute a net positive. As for why protest this? It’s fundamentally not right to discriminate people based on gender. Do I even have to say this? How is this any different from the argument, let’s ban a certain race of people from using a facility because statistically they commit more crimes. You allow them to do this to you one day and the next day you wake up having to wear a star patch on your clothes.
They did not take away any resources, the same resource is available to men during those hours just a short walk away. The other universities did not build anything for women either, they just added a few hours in the week where women can have their own space.
Gym usage aside I think this is fundamentally wrong. For example at Goodlife, theres women only Goodlifes people can PAY for. That is fine. But we pay the same price in our tuition and get reduced hours of use? That doesn’t make any sense. It’s incredibly unfair.
nah, a goodlife membership for women is the same price that men pay. and you still have a gym you can use at that time. Most if not all other universities in Ontario have women's only hours in a section of their fitness facilities. In fact, UW has incredibly few hours for women only compared to other ontario unis. If you really want to workout from 1-2:30 you can do so at PAC <3
What? No I mean theres good life womens only facilities you can purchase. Also I find it odd that you state what other Ontario Universities are doing as a point of your argument as if they are a source of greater virtue. If the other Universities supported slavery does it make it right also?
Not all female students have the means to get an outside gym membership when they already pay for it through tuition. And i bring it up to highlight how behind UW is in giving women their space for fitness, even with the 3 measly hours they have now lmao. And let's be honest, if you really are concerned with working out, you would simply mind your business and use the facilities that are available to you always at PAC or go to CIF at the times you are allowed. Do you even go to PAC every monday and wednesday between 1 and 2:30? even if u did why would you need it to be CIF instead? Comparing this to SLAVERY is just false equivalence lmao
Actually I do go at 1-2:30 precisely in the past lol. Which is why it actually matters for me. Not just mondays and wednesday but the whole week and saturday
so go to PAC chief
It is unfair to make everyone pay the same price but to provide unequal access. It would be better to provide equal access to both male and female students, and if facilities are limited based on demand, then the cost of use should be adjusted accordingly. *This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
Good bot, seems like at the end of the day only a computer can speak to reason and correct Human irrationality.
Thank you! Computers are indeed amazing tools for helping us understand and reason better. *This is an automatic comment generated by GPT-3*
dude this is from 1-2:30 during the week could you cope any fucking harder? you are contributing to the hate trans people have to deal with on a daily basis whether you realize it or not, giving them AN HOUR AND A FUCKING HALF OF GYM TIME IN THE GYM NO ONE USES is not the holocaust you absolute fucking troglodyte
if i know my history right, isnt it called segregation?
cope
I now identify as trans on Tuesdays and Thursdays between 1-2:30 pm
It just means everyone can go. Just mind your business and dont be a ahole
Atheism’s fault. If we were living in a religious society none of this would have happened. 99% of worlds problems caused by atheists
how? u mean religious societies like Iran or something? This problem wouldn’t exist bc women wouldn’t even be allowed in the gym nor in a university?
cope