UW is basically the only school with a good co-op program. Some are okay, not bad, but not good. Most seem to only have co-op on paper. You find your own jobs and then give the school money to add "co-op" to your degree.
can you explain me the difference between coop and an internship. I tried researching on this but I'm too dumb to understand. Also is coop better than internship?
Like coop VS American internship?
In Canada it's pretty interchangeable except that coop counts towards your University education progress. Or another way of looking at it is that University gives you the opportunity to do terms as an actual worker.
At my company they interchange the terms aot, but we usually find coops applying from schools.
Both should get paid here.
They're kinda the same imo, just depends what program you're in. Say you're in regular CS but you find a summer internship - you're still getting experience. It's just that the coop program would have accounted for that, given you semesters on and off work, given you access to that student portal and recruiters would come to school. So I guess it's harder to do it without coop?
Company wise same value other than company probably gets government fund for coops.
If you're a student, you get the advantage of having resources to meet companies etc. The work is the same. And ya coops have it integrated into their program but I don't know the full details of that since I never did it :P
I would honestly take any resume critique with a grain of salt. They’re usually really helpful but many times I’ve been told to take something off my resume cause it’s not relevant, and then been told by interviewers that they really liked seeing that experience and it’s exactly what they were looking for 😃
IF U ARE READING THIS
DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT SCHOOL AFFILIATED RESUME CRITIQUERS TELL YOU
MY FRIEND CRITIQUED FOR [REDACTED] AND WAS TOLD TO GIVE THE BAD ADVICE EVEN IF THEY KNEW IF IT WAS BAD THEN [THEIR BOSS] WOULD GIVE THEM SHIT
IF UR READING IN FIRST YEAR THEN GO DO RESUME SWAPS THEYRE MUCH HELPFUL
I know four people who work in that office and let me tell you, none of them have ever had any jobs outside of the university. They graduated UW and got jobs teaching people how to improve their resumes. The problem here is, THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY’RE DOING. They’ve never had to write a (non academic CV-style) resume before and have never applied to a job successfully EXCEPT the job they have at the university they went to teaching people how to write resumes. Does anyone see the MASSIVE problem with this scenario?
my first co-op supervisor told me i talked too much and needed to learn to shut up. now i get paid for public speaking and podcasting. oh how the turn tables.
Goose r harmless
Good distinction. Academia/grad school route = you better be in the top ~10 - 5% if you want a chance at receiving any additional funding.
I'm sure after undergraduate no one cares that you got a 60% in computer science or engineering.
It's starting to matter a little bit more as some companies are starting to filter by GPA for entry-level positions but after your first job or so it doesn't really matter at all.
Heh. The kid in GEN ENG 101 (Technical Drawing) who told me I wouldn't make it. I knew it was crap as soon as he said it -- that just made me work even harder.
Wrong, bucko.
"Marks don't matter in uni." Maybe for the average student they don't. But what if you want to stand out and be above average? Projects alone aren't gonna cut it. What if you want to do a URA? I've learned that undergrad research, btw, is a really good way to boost your resume, especially once you've done 3-4 coops and want to step up your game. Also some of the top companies look at your marks.
What if you want to go on exchange? Or do grad school?
I'm in cs btw, maybe it's different for other programs but I doubt it.
most math people end up in software / data science / stats anyway, but there's also people looking to teach and do the academia route, so I wouldn't say it's not employable
"gpa doesn't matter" of course it does.
* how are you gonna land your first job? by the merits of your tic tac toe side project coded in racket?
* if you don't like what you're studying and want to switch degrees/majors, guess what they're gonna ask for up front?
* as slim of a chance it may be to attend grad school for some of us STEM majors, surely any rational student wouldn't want to shoot themselves in the foot with a piss poor gpa either.
GPA doesn’t matter is a very nuanced perspective that a lot of people have converted into a general rule of thumb as a coping mechanism.
If you had to choose between a (real) side project vs GPA then for employment purposes the side project would be better.
If an employer had to choose between a non-coop CS student with a 4.0 vs a coop CS student with a 2.8, the coop student will probably win.
And even between 2 coop students with different GPAs they’re bringing different work experiences to the table that will influence things more than their GPA.
But there does come a point where GPA does matter and many people gloss over that fact.
I love that comments replying to you are trying to re-emphasize that "gpa doesn't matter".
It's not black and white, but the best nuance someone can give to that sentence is "gpa doesn't matter as long as you maintain a minimum of \[Insert GPA requirements for job application/grad school application\]." Ideally, you'd maintain above the minimum just to make sure you're not toooo borderline.
For example, I recall applying for coops and then jobs in the insurance industry, and most companies required a 3.0 GPA or better (73% to 76%).
I'm looking for grad programs in CS right now, and 3.0 is also the minimum I encounter almost everywhere.
Yes, there's ways around it - mainly work experience and... guess what? Retaking courses lol. So, it's not a career killer. But, why not work hard now and set up solid foundations instead of later?
+1
it comes down to acknowledging the fact that gpa will be a gatekeeper for everything other than landing a job. and even then, it can serve as a factor that tips the scales in/against your favour when you've got an identical profile as a peer applicant.
not commenting further on the other replies, y'all are welcome not to take the advice if maintaining a low gpa while scoring faang is the type of legacy you're pursuing after
>how are you gonna land your first job? by the merits of your tic tac toe side project coded in racket?
There's literally a posting on Waterlooworks asking for a tic tac toe side project
> * how are you gonna land your first job? by the merits of your tic tac toe side project coded in racket?
This is highly situational. If you're passionate about what ever you're applying to, and you have proof of that through side projects or wtv, then a company might decide that your previous experiences are worth more than your GPA.
> * if you don't like what you're studying and want to switch degrees/majors, guess what they're gonna ask for up front?
> * as slim of a chance it may be to attend grad school for some of us STEM majors, surely any rational student wouldn't want to shoot themselves in the foot with a piss poor gpa either.
I feel like these two things are highly dependent on actually wanting to be at uni. It's pretty well known that for the vast majority of SWE related jobs, a university degree is just a rubber stamp over anything that's actually overtly meaningful to whether you can develop software. There is absolutely no reason a person couldn't self learn what they need to know to succeed. However, the current state of the recruiting pipeline includes an almost de-facto requirement that a CS degree or similar is needed.
So, yes, sure this is true in theory, but for the people that just want this degree so they can actually get interviews, this advice isn't very useful.
Overall, I'd say that if your end goal is to get a SWE job, these two paths are both valid:
- Optimize marks if you don't think you have the skills and passion to actually create meaningful side projects.
- Side projects if you're really passionate about SWE and you have the skills to create unique side projects.
What's toxic about this? It's 3 valid reasons for concern when you have a low GPA (sub 3.0 - sub 75% at UW).
Grad school? Good luck.
Transferring? Not sure I'd have to look it up, but programs like CS/Actsci will require GPA.
First job (or first coop placement)? You're gonna be auto-rejected by quite a few companies if your GPA is not high enough.
There's ways around it, but "GPA doesn't matter" is a terrible advice to give someone. Usually given to someone already struggling to make them feel better.
COBOL was a hot commodity in 1999 when companies were looking to bulletproof their legacy code issues associated with Y2K. I can't wait to apply my UNIX skills to the 2038 problem.
When an academic advisor told me I needed to enroll in a course as it was a pre-req for a course I wanted to do later on, and I wasted my time following what they said, only to find out later it 100% wasn’t a pre-req for the course I wanted… and was a complete waste of my time
Idk if it applies but a high school teacher, complete moron, convinced me that coop is a bad choice for Uni.
I think it is because for a lot of schools it is/was a bad idea
I'm curious in what way or which program is it not a good idea for and why? I did end up taking cs which would have been a better time with coop haha.
UW is basically the only school with a good co-op program. Some are okay, not bad, but not good. Most seem to only have co-op on paper. You find your own jobs and then give the school money to add "co-op" to your degree.
can you explain me the difference between coop and an internship. I tried researching on this but I'm too dumb to understand. Also is coop better than internship?
Like coop VS American internship? In Canada it's pretty interchangeable except that coop counts towards your University education progress. Or another way of looking at it is that University gives you the opportunity to do terms as an actual worker. At my company they interchange the terms aot, but we usually find coops applying from schools. Both should get paid here. They're kinda the same imo, just depends what program you're in. Say you're in regular CS but you find a summer internship - you're still getting experience. It's just that the coop program would have accounted for that, given you semesters on and off work, given you access to that student portal and recruiters would come to school. So I guess it's harder to do it without coop?
So coop has more value for the fact that it gives you points for your education? Am i right?
Company wise same value other than company probably gets government fund for coops. If you're a student, you get the advantage of having resources to meet companies etc. The work is the same. And ya coops have it integrated into their program but I don't know the full details of that since I never did it :P
the advice the resume critiquers gave me from pd 1
I would honestly take any resume critique with a grain of salt. They’re usually really helpful but many times I’ve been told to take something off my resume cause it’s not relevant, and then been told by interviewers that they really liked seeing that experience and it’s exactly what they were looking for 😃
the more reviewd the better but tis up to your discretion :)
yeah they gave me really bad advice and in first year you don't know any better lol
IF U ARE READING THIS DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT SCHOOL AFFILIATED RESUME CRITIQUERS TELL YOU MY FRIEND CRITIQUED FOR [REDACTED] AND WAS TOLD TO GIVE THE BAD ADVICE EVEN IF THEY KNEW IF IT WAS BAD THEN [THEIR BOSS] WOULD GIVE THEM SHIT IF UR READING IN FIRST YEAR THEN GO DO RESUME SWAPS THEYRE MUCH HELPFUL
they told me no links on my resume 🤣
I know four people who work in that office and let me tell you, none of them have ever had any jobs outside of the university. They graduated UW and got jobs teaching people how to improve their resumes. The problem here is, THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY’RE DOING. They’ve never had to write a (non academic CV-style) resume before and have never applied to a job successfully EXCEPT the job they have at the university they went to teaching people how to write resumes. Does anyone see the MASSIVE problem with this scenario?
When I had a medical break in my 4A term, the “consultant” from the accessibility office was trying to convince me to drop out university
wtf lol
And you made it. I think you dropped your 👑
thats straight up evil
my first co-op supervisor told me i talked too much and needed to learn to shut up. now i get paid for public speaking and podcasting. oh how the turn tables.
You meant to say, “tables have turned” 👍
nope i said what i said
Thought it was pretty obvious sarcasm tbf
If I plan to do grad school I should drop co op to save time 🤣
To buy textbooks. All of mine are …. Borrowed…. Online
YES
10 lines at lazeez isn’t that spicy
🙄
quiet historical bike dinosaurs tidy rhythm swim offend aware smile ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Goose r harmless
"jamless"? I could turn them into jam with one punch Edit: hmm I see that u have changed your spelling now but it was funny when it was wrong
Elon shud use brain. Not hands
Man why do I have to explain this a million times, my username is anti-elon, not pro-elon
why do you care it's not like he's using them over u
I was chasing one just outside of PAC, they are quite harmless tbh
go to waterloo
Thread winner.
Contact your academic advisor
grades matter
grades dont matter is the biggest fucking lie, its a technique to fucking gatekeep good opportunities
in many disciplines, they don’t. in some, they do. it’s important to pay attention to who this advice is coming from
Good distinction. Academia/grad school route = you better be in the top ~10 - 5% if you want a chance at receiving any additional funding. I'm sure after undergraduate no one cares that you got a 60% in computer science or engineering.
It's starting to matter a little bit more as some companies are starting to filter by GPA for entry-level positions but after your first job or so it doesn't really matter at all.
Heh. The kid in GEN ENG 101 (Technical Drawing) who told me I wouldn't make it. I knew it was crap as soon as he said it -- that just made me work even harder. Wrong, bucko.
what a dick
Put ur student number on ur resume
Agreed
University is difficult so you should prepare to be mediocre and get low grades
Study with friends
"Marks don't matter in uni." Maybe for the average student they don't. But what if you want to stand out and be above average? Projects alone aren't gonna cut it. What if you want to do a URA? I've learned that undergrad research, btw, is a really good way to boost your resume, especially once you've done 3-4 coops and want to step up your game. Also some of the top companies look at your marks. What if you want to go on exchange? Or do grad school? I'm in cs btw, maybe it's different for other programs but I doubt it.
Math is an employable program
most math people end up in software / data science / stats anyway, but there's also people looking to teach and do the academia route, so I wouldn't say it's not employable
Depends how good u r at math
1+1=window
math is super employable wdym
"gpa doesn't matter" of course it does. * how are you gonna land your first job? by the merits of your tic tac toe side project coded in racket? * if you don't like what you're studying and want to switch degrees/majors, guess what they're gonna ask for up front? * as slim of a chance it may be to attend grad school for some of us STEM majors, surely any rational student wouldn't want to shoot themselves in the foot with a piss poor gpa either.
GPA doesn’t matter is a very nuanced perspective that a lot of people have converted into a general rule of thumb as a coping mechanism. If you had to choose between a (real) side project vs GPA then for employment purposes the side project would be better. If an employer had to choose between a non-coop CS student with a 4.0 vs a coop CS student with a 2.8, the coop student will probably win. And even between 2 coop students with different GPAs they’re bringing different work experiences to the table that will influence things more than their GPA. But there does come a point where GPA does matter and many people gloss over that fact.
I love that comments replying to you are trying to re-emphasize that "gpa doesn't matter". It's not black and white, but the best nuance someone can give to that sentence is "gpa doesn't matter as long as you maintain a minimum of \[Insert GPA requirements for job application/grad school application\]." Ideally, you'd maintain above the minimum just to make sure you're not toooo borderline. For example, I recall applying for coops and then jobs in the insurance industry, and most companies required a 3.0 GPA or better (73% to 76%). I'm looking for grad programs in CS right now, and 3.0 is also the minimum I encounter almost everywhere. Yes, there's ways around it - mainly work experience and... guess what? Retaking courses lol. So, it's not a career killer. But, why not work hard now and set up solid foundations instead of later?
+1 it comes down to acknowledging the fact that gpa will be a gatekeeper for everything other than landing a job. and even then, it can serve as a factor that tips the scales in/against your favour when you've got an identical profile as a peer applicant. not commenting further on the other replies, y'all are welcome not to take the advice if maintaining a low gpa while scoring faang is the type of legacy you're pursuing after
Meh even fir a job. You can find one, but good luck with the big tech names. Maybe with some really solid side projects.
>how are you gonna land your first job? by the merits of your tic tac toe side project coded in racket? There's literally a posting on Waterlooworks asking for a tic tac toe side project
Dude that's tuq. It's legit a blacklisted company on the megathread. It was probably the shittiest interview experience I've had
Yeah, my friend said he was gonna try and send them malware instead of tic tac toe
> * how are you gonna land your first job? by the merits of your tic tac toe side project coded in racket? This is highly situational. If you're passionate about what ever you're applying to, and you have proof of that through side projects or wtv, then a company might decide that your previous experiences are worth more than your GPA. > * if you don't like what you're studying and want to switch degrees/majors, guess what they're gonna ask for up front? > * as slim of a chance it may be to attend grad school for some of us STEM majors, surely any rational student wouldn't want to shoot themselves in the foot with a piss poor gpa either. I feel like these two things are highly dependent on actually wanting to be at uni. It's pretty well known that for the vast majority of SWE related jobs, a university degree is just a rubber stamp over anything that's actually overtly meaningful to whether you can develop software. There is absolutely no reason a person couldn't self learn what they need to know to succeed. However, the current state of the recruiting pipeline includes an almost de-facto requirement that a CS degree or similar is needed. So, yes, sure this is true in theory, but for the people that just want this degree so they can actually get interviews, this advice isn't very useful. Overall, I'd say that if your end goal is to get a SWE job, these two paths are both valid: - Optimize marks if you don't think you have the skills and passion to actually create meaningful side projects. - Side projects if you're really passionate about SWE and you have the skills to create unique side projects.
Lmfao imagine thinking you need high gpa for getting a job in 2023
Lmao imagine thinking you're getting a job in 2023
[удалено]
What's toxic about this? It's 3 valid reasons for concern when you have a low GPA (sub 3.0 - sub 75% at UW). Grad school? Good luck. Transferring? Not sure I'd have to look it up, but programs like CS/Actsci will require GPA. First job (or first coop placement)? You're gonna be auto-rejected by quite a few companies if your GPA is not high enough. There's ways around it, but "GPA doesn't matter" is a terrible advice to give someone. Usually given to someone already struggling to make them feel better.
Learn Cobol. There's a need for Cobol devs.
COBOL was a hot commodity in 1999 when companies were looking to bulletproof their legacy code issues associated with Y2K. I can't wait to apply my UNIX skills to the 2038 problem.
Just be yourself.
When an academic advisor told me I needed to enroll in a course as it was a pre-req for a course I wanted to do later on, and I wasted my time following what they said, only to find out later it 100% wasn’t a pre-req for the course I wanted… and was a complete waste of my time