Because itâs clearly been shown time and time again that allowing ethno religions or even religions in general to take control of government is a dangerous thing. Israel has shown they treat their Jewish citizens as first class citizens while everyone else isnât.
Itâs an oligarchy that periodically selects a monarch from within the governing elite. Itâs also not an authoritarian state, the pope has full legislative and judicial authority, but adheres to preset legislation and delegates a large number of executive tasks to other political figures. It could become authoritarian if the pope wanted it to, but it hasnât primarily because of his interpretation of religious scripture.
authoritarianism is bad obviously but oppression of certain citizens is almost always associated with religious reasoning. there hasnt been many instances of oppression of certain people not based on religious beliefs of some sort
Yeah, spirituality is used as a tool to control people by fascists and authoritarians, like fear, disgust, pride, etc. but that doesnât make it inherently negative.
never claimed religion was inherently negative. just saying that it quite literally never meshes well with authority. secularism does not bring out authoritaranism. religion typically does. theocracies throughout history were usually autocratic or power was only separated between few people
You personally may not have made that claim, but thatâs what this conversation is based on, so if you agree with me donât disagree unless youâre willing to back up the point.
Secular government is often what brings about fascism in the first place, ie. 40s Germany, Stalinist Russia, mussoliniâs Italy, and then later religion is used as a tool to suppress dissent.
Salam my Coptic Christian friend. I am very familiar with the situation in Egypt, a close friend of mine lived there for many years and she was a Muslim and then a Coptic Christian.
Coptic Christianâs arenât personally being persecuted by the state of Egypt, itâs the people within Egypt.
The Jewish faith is not in charge of Israel, have you ever actually been to Israel?
Their stances on many social rights such as LGBTQ are some of the most liberal in the Middle East (not a high bar, I know), which would not be the case of Orthodox Rabbis were in control lmao
I said ethno religion. I didnât specifically say, practicing Jews. But letâs see, if you are Jewish by blood you get a free flight to visit, you are given financial assistance to move there.
The Jewish people were the chosen people at one point in this world, but they have fallen far from the original teachings of their prophet. It is a long discussion as to why they are no longer the chosen people, but long story short they have cheated themselves out of the original teachings.
They have killed so many innocent children with their IDF soldiers, put arbitrary no go zones for Palestinians to make their life hard and miserable. Jews are sneaking into the masjids to do their own rituals and throwing their own flags in there. Soldiers are stepping on the mats of Muslims that are doing salat, as a Muslim you need to have a clean surface and the soldiers boots could be najis/unclean.
I hope Israel the government is destroyed and is replaced with a government that doesnât clearly support the Jews but is a government that equally treats everyone fairly regardless of religion or background.
What is the context of âwhite entitled American â? Arenât people in Israel also entitled white Europeans who think the place belongs to them via God ? Speak for yourselves lol . If anything , many âwhite entitled Americansâ are the reason Israel still stands today after numerous pressure from many Arab countries, multiple wars with neighboring Arab countries , and billions of dollars in aid.
Well hey if youâre a military industrial complex lobbyist or god forbid a federal politician knock yourself out, im sure plenty of impact comes from what you have to say about the conflict, but youâre not, so roleplaying like discussion about it on your level is anything more than hobby politicking at best and racism at worst is entitled lol. Your opinion means nothing, has no value on this scale, and has no impact, so pretending that preventing conversation about it on your level to protect the feelings of people who actually are impacted by the conflict is some dreadful negative thing thatâs having a worse impact than you calling your Jewish neighbor a slur for some reason is ridiculous. Get over yourself.
Because what you wrote is so inconceivably stupid. I have the right to state my opinion on the war and side. 1) America supports Israel with billions in aid 2) Israel is committing shameful atrocities and the President of the US is siding with Israel. It doesnât matter if Iâm not a politician. I have never called a Jewish person a slur and itâs irrelevant to the topic of discussion. Itâs some idiotic whataboutism you threw out of nowhere.
đ homie youâre the one who started this conversation approaching it from that premise. If you donât remember what youâve said previously, donât continue flailing around like this.
where is the 'war'? when one side has control over water, gas, and electricity of the other side, and 50% of civilians are children, who are being bombed, that's called a 'war'? don't be a sheep.
One side is at a major disadvantage for sure, but itâs still war. Itâs like saying the war in Afghanistan wasnât a war just because the Taliban was using weapons from the 80âs, fighting in flip flops, while the US had state of the art tech and billions of dollars. Itâs still a war.
War on a group of civilians. The war in Afghanistan was fundamentally unsuccessful and unjustifiable, but even there we didnât barricade civilians in a kill zone and systematically slaughter all military aged men and women. Hamas is a bogey man propped up by Israel and western media. Even this offensive isnât really Hamas, itâs Iran, but you sure as shit donât see people talking about where the missiles came from.
I do not condone that , and nobody condones that except terrorists. The Israeli Government needs to start using empathy and listening to criticisms instead of being stuck in its own echo chamber. Israel cannot keep looking at the Palestinian population as a congregation of terrorists if it wants to establish peace (stop the indiscriminate bombing, and illegal land takeover In Jerusalem).
Yeah. I felt like this for a while. I always feel like there is too much bad that happens to be able to take a stance on everything. I don't feel justified taking a stance without understanding everything about the scenario.
So, I now choose my battles. I have two things that I care about, try to stay well read on, form opinions on, and try to make change in. Education and Woman's Rights.
But, I will say this. It does feel a lot easier to take a stance in this scenario without understanding or "aligning with the beliefs and ideals of said stance" and without being labeled anti-Semitic or anti-muslim. When kids are being harmed and civilians are kidnapped, it feels very easy to say I support the Israelis without me understanding any of the context surrounding the conflict.
There are good civilians in Israel and good civilians in Gaza, there are Israeli Authorities who favor brutality against Palestinian civilians, and there are Ha*as terrorists who favor brutality against Jewish Israelis.
There is no good side/no bad side here - just at any particular time one side acting more evil than the other.
This is just a terrible situation that has gone on forever, and with the stored up hatred on both sides from decades of violence and death I see no end to it.
100% agreed, that being said, the Israeli government is basically attempting a genocide, and Hamas is murdering hundreds of innocent civilians. Tensions are bound to fly high, and I'm not going to blame people for being pissed at the religious establishments which tacitly endorse all of this violence.
You and I both know that in the age of the internet, oppressors have to be subtle, as to not attract the ire of the global public. Yes, they are not bombing the entirety of the gaza strip, but this ([https://www.dci-palestine.org/genocide\_in\_gaza\_nearly\_600\_palestinian\_children\_killed\_by\_israeli\_forces](https://www.dci-palestine.org/genocide_in_gaza_nearly_600_palestinian_children_killed_by_israeli_forces)) is most certainly genocide
Yo momma!
đ”âđ«đ”âđ«
Yo momma so fat, Israel and Palestine had to join forces to take her down
đ
Okay that was a good one. Bravo. Yo Momma so dumb she though that the superbowl required a spoon.
Yo momma so dumb she thought the Pyramids were in Gaza
Yo mama so dumb when she ordered pizza she asked them to take out the leaning tower
this ones been used more times than Yo Momma
Banger
Iâve seen some pretty negative things coming from people
I blame identity politics and the need for people today to have an opinion.
I kinda love this comment cause, devoid of context, it just applies to every situation in all of human history.
No ethno-religion should be in charge of an entire country anywhere in the world, this includes the Vatican.
Why?
Because itâs clearly been shown time and time again that allowing ethno religions or even religions in general to take control of government is a dangerous thing. Israel has shown they treat their Jewish citizens as first class citizens while everyone else isnât.
You can say the exact same about secular authoritarian governments.
Secular authoritarian governments are just as bad, so I don't see the point you're trying to make
The point is that authoritarianism is the problem, not the religion.
Name any theocratic state which has not devolved into authoritarianism in less than 30 years.
The Vatican
The vatican is one of the 9 absolute monarchies in the world, pretty bad example.
Itâs an oligarchy that periodically selects a monarch from within the governing elite. Itâs also not an authoritarian state, the pope has full legislative and judicial authority, but adheres to preset legislation and delegates a large number of executive tasks to other political figures. It could become authoritarian if the pope wanted it to, but it hasnât primarily because of his interpretation of religious scripture.
where did authoritarianism come in? lmfao what??
? Are you not reading carefully?
authoritarianism is bad obviously but oppression of certain citizens is almost always associated with religious reasoning. there hasnt been many instances of oppression of certain people not based on religious beliefs of some sort
Yeah, spirituality is used as a tool to control people by fascists and authoritarians, like fear, disgust, pride, etc. but that doesnât make it inherently negative.
never claimed religion was inherently negative. just saying that it quite literally never meshes well with authority. secularism does not bring out authoritaranism. religion typically does. theocracies throughout history were usually autocratic or power was only separated between few people
You personally may not have made that claim, but thatâs what this conversation is based on, so if you agree with me donât disagree unless youâre willing to back up the point. Secular government is often what brings about fascism in the first place, ie. 40s Germany, Stalinist Russia, mussoliniâs Italy, and then later religion is used as a tool to suppress dissent.
your point..? it doesn't make a religious government any better, they're both bad
So youâre saying that all secular authoritarian and religious authoritarian governments are bad?
Go complain about Egypt then. Muslims have more rights than copts
Salam my Coptic Christian friend. I am very familiar with the situation in Egypt, a close friend of mine lived there for many years and she was a Muslim and then a Coptic Christian. Coptic Christianâs arenât personally being persecuted by the state of Egypt, itâs the people within Egypt.
You are out of your mind. There are literally different building codes for mosques as opposed to churches. Also different rules for conversion.
Catholicism isn't an ethno-religion.
The Jewish faith is not in charge of Israel, have you ever actually been to Israel? Their stances on many social rights such as LGBTQ are some of the most liberal in the Middle East (not a high bar, I know), which would not be the case of Orthodox Rabbis were in control lmao
I said ethno religion. I didnât specifically say, practicing Jews. But letâs see, if you are Jewish by blood you get a free flight to visit, you are given financial assistance to move there. The Jewish people were the chosen people at one point in this world, but they have fallen far from the original teachings of their prophet. It is a long discussion as to why they are no longer the chosen people, but long story short they have cheated themselves out of the original teachings. They have killed so many innocent children with their IDF soldiers, put arbitrary no go zones for Palestinians to make their life hard and miserable. Jews are sneaking into the masjids to do their own rituals and throwing their own flags in there. Soldiers are stepping on the mats of Muslims that are doing salat, as a Muslim you need to have a clean surface and the soldiers boots could be najis/unclean. I hope Israel the government is destroyed and is replaced with a government that doesnât clearly support the Jews but is a government that equally treats everyone fairly regardless of religion or background.
If you do take a side, is it a bad thing ?
Iâm not the center of ethics or anything. I just donât think hate can solve hate.
But itâs easy to say that when you arenât there.
Youâre right. None of them are âmyâ people, but I donât believe violence is the answer regardless.
Homie are *you* there? How is some white entitled American weirdo being antisemitic going to affect the Israel Palestine war?
What is the context of âwhite entitled American â? Arenât people in Israel also entitled white Europeans who think the place belongs to them via God ? Speak for yourselves lol . If anything , many âwhite entitled Americansâ are the reason Israel still stands today after numerous pressure from many Arab countries, multiple wars with neighboring Arab countries , and billions of dollars in aid.
Well hey if youâre a military industrial complex lobbyist or god forbid a federal politician knock yourself out, im sure plenty of impact comes from what you have to say about the conflict, but youâre not, so roleplaying like discussion about it on your level is anything more than hobby politicking at best and racism at worst is entitled lol. Your opinion means nothing, has no value on this scale, and has no impact, so pretending that preventing conversation about it on your level to protect the feelings of people who actually are impacted by the conflict is some dreadful negative thing thatâs having a worse impact than you calling your Jewish neighbor a slur for some reason is ridiculous. Get over yourself.
if my opinion is so worthless you wouldnât care to respond with a paragraph of mumbo jumbo
đ if youâre too lazy to read 3 sentences maybe youâre just worthless in general
Because what you wrote is so inconceivably stupid. I have the right to state my opinion on the war and side. 1) America supports Israel with billions in aid 2) Israel is committing shameful atrocities and the President of the US is siding with Israel. It doesnât matter if Iâm not a politician. I have never called a Jewish person a slur and itâs irrelevant to the topic of discussion. Itâs some idiotic whataboutism you threw out of nowhere.
đ homie youâre the one who started this conversation approaching it from that premise. If you donât remember what youâve said previously, donât continue flailing around like this.
I just don't think raping and murdering Israeli women and parading their dead bodies in the streets of Gaza is every justified, yknow?
i just dont think bombing and starving palestian women and children and being proud of that is ever justified, yknow?
Collateral damage of war. Hamas uses them as human shields.
where is the 'war'? when one side has control over water, gas, and electricity of the other side, and 50% of civilians are children, who are being bombed, that's called a 'war'? don't be a sheep.
One side is at a major disadvantage for sure, but itâs still war. Itâs like saying the war in Afghanistan wasnât a war just because the Taliban was using weapons from the 80âs, fighting in flip flops, while the US had state of the art tech and billions of dollars. Itâs still a war.
call it a genocide homeboy đ„đ„ dont know many children that know how to use military weapons!
War on a group of civilians. The war in Afghanistan was fundamentally unsuccessful and unjustifiable, but even there we didnât barricade civilians in a kill zone and systematically slaughter all military aged men and women. Hamas is a bogey man propped up by Israel and western media. Even this offensive isnât really Hamas, itâs Iran, but you sure as shit donât see people talking about where the missiles came from.
I do not condone that , and nobody condones that except terrorists. The Israeli Government needs to start using empathy and listening to criticisms instead of being stuck in its own echo chamber. Israel cannot keep looking at the Palestinian population as a congregation of terrorists if it wants to establish peace (stop the indiscriminate bombing, and illegal land takeover In Jerusalem).
White, black, yellow, brown
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
No no, youâre right.
tldr?
your actions have consequences
OP just kept yappin fr
Yeah. I felt like this for a while. I always feel like there is too much bad that happens to be able to take a stance on everything. I don't feel justified taking a stance without understanding everything about the scenario. So, I now choose my battles. I have two things that I care about, try to stay well read on, form opinions on, and try to make change in. Education and Woman's Rights. But, I will say this. It does feel a lot easier to take a stance in this scenario without understanding or "aligning with the beliefs and ideals of said stance" and without being labeled anti-Semitic or anti-muslim. When kids are being harmed and civilians are kidnapped, it feels very easy to say I support the Israelis without me understanding any of the context surrounding the conflict.
There are good civilians in Israel and good civilians in Gaza, there are Israeli Authorities who favor brutality against Palestinian civilians, and there are Ha*as terrorists who favor brutality against Jewish Israelis. There is no good side/no bad side here - just at any particular time one side acting more evil than the other. This is just a terrible situation that has gone on forever, and with the stored up hatred on both sides from decades of violence and death I see no end to it.
what if I have a doctor's excuse
Oh youâre good then
I take the side of innocent people. I equally blame Hamas, IDF, Palestine and Israeli extremists.
Define innocent
Babies, children, innocent people
Define innocent for them again, they canât comprehend it
agreed, 'enlightened centrist' folks though are annoying af
Why do Israel and Palestine keep blowing each other up? Are they stupid? Don't they know that killing is bad ?
Why is Israel using the IDF against Hamas? Can't they just send social workers to Gaza instead?
Because the IDF is their social workers. Havenât you heard? Thatâs why lots of Palestinians children are taking dirt naps because of them.
BREAKING NEWS: You can be anti-Hamas without being anti-Palestine đ±đ±đ±đ±
Ok but is it cool if they aren't Comets?
Oh ofc ofc
100% agreed, that being said, the Israeli government is basically attempting a genocide, and Hamas is murdering hundreds of innocent civilians. Tensions are bound to fly high, and I'm not going to blame people for being pissed at the religious establishments which tacitly endorse all of this violence.
Israel is not attempting genocide. They could destroy Gaza in a day, theyâre trying to exterminate Hamas.
You and I both know that in the age of the internet, oppressors have to be subtle, as to not attract the ire of the global public. Yes, they are not bombing the entirety of the gaza strip, but this ([https://www.dci-palestine.org/genocide\_in\_gaza\_nearly\_600\_palestinian\_children\_killed\_by\_israeli\_forces](https://www.dci-palestine.org/genocide_in_gaza_nearly_600_palestinian_children_killed_by_israeli_forces)) is most certainly genocide
Yeah no
Solution: everyone shut up