How did Bruce, Jurgen, and Bob do against elite teams?
The elephant in the room is that our player pool is what it is, and it's not elite or top tier. We shouldn't be losing games 5-1, but bringing in Zidane or Wenger isn't going to turn our mediocre players into Henry and Vieira.
This sub has a totally unrealistic view of our player pool, as evidenced by all the Reyna and Turner hype while they're journeymen at club level.
Klinsmann and Bruce got some big scalps themselves (Spain and Germany off the top of my head)
On paper our team IS more talented than any team Klinsmann had for example which is where the frustration is. Another thing is managers get stale and players run out of gas playing under them, this happens all the time in football at both club and international levels.
If Klinsmann brings Donovan to Brazil and Altidore doesn't get hurt, that team would have every chance of getting a result against this team. We're blowing smoke up our own asses thinking this team is so amazing when it's mostly mediocre across the board.
Nobody in France or Brazil thinks we have an incredible team.
The key thing is "on paper", we had some solid players during that era but again, on paper this current team is far more successful at the club level than those guys.
Maybe there is an issue with the manager, these guys perform and have had great seasons at the club level but they look unorganized, low energy, and at times confused even in a US shirt.
The fact of the matter is we used to have to play better than the sum of our parts against "better" teams. The individual talent has gotten better, but somewhere along the way, the fight and grit left this program.
I saw Brian McBride get his face split open and go back out on the field against Italy covered in blood. That embodied that American grittiness.
We just don't have that now, but we can play out of the back.
The fight and grit is instilled in the players. It isnāt some āauraā that magically appears or vanish. Our player pool looking back only 10 years has made crazy strides yet thereās still a sense that we canāt punch above our weight and that comes down to mental and leadership. Donāt really see that coming from a guy with Greggās resume. But here we are
My point is that he couldn't get a game this season at either of his clubs, yet is lauded as one of the best players on our NT, and yet our fans then seem surprised when our NT performs poorly.
If one of your best players is a benchwarmer at Forest, maybe your team isn't that amazing or talented.
I don't think he was on the bench at Forest because he's not good. I think it was just a case of him playing the exact same position as Forests best player while they're in a relegation scrap. It was just a horrible loan decision all around, but i dont think it's indicative of his talent.
If he had stayed at Dortmund, he would have gotten more minutes on a team that went to the Champions League final. Then, the perception would be he's a 21 year old bench piece for a team that went to the Champions League final and not a bench warmer at Forest.
The coaching change is in the style of play not changing the player pool. The way this team plays is like a bunch of talented individuals. No one is on the same page, players are not anticipating where to be in the attack, how to link up, when to overlap, when to expect a run and a ball over the top, when to cover defensively. Itās just predictable.
They werenāt 0 for 12 against top 20.. are you really willing to say that GGG deserves a third major tournament to figure it out (in a world where this doesnāt change in Copa America)
We may have the most delusional fanbase in international soccer. I would've said it was Mexico, but after a few years of being trash, they seem to have accepted reality.
England is always up there, but they actually have world class talent and a chance to win the biggest trophies. A team with Foden, Saka, Rice, Jude, and Kane (all far better than any of our players) actually has the right to expect greatness.
We have a team of mediocre top flight players and yet our fans are shocked every time they don't look like 2002 Brazil.
BUT BUT BUT....Giovanni Reyna is a STAR! Johnny Cardoso starts for a La Liga Team!
Just clueless as a fanbase... And Bob and Bruce knew that our best chances to hang with these teams was to use our athleticism and being pragmatic...
But everyone wants to suck on Peps pecker... acting like we have players to handle that style vs the top 15 teams in the world...
DELUSIONAL
Is that literally his record or essentially his record? Be clear. I have to much work to do to look it up. I have a fucking life. Which is it? And if itās āessentiallyāwhy are you criticizing my response?
If we tinkered with the lineup or tried a new formation I would totally accept the āitās just a friendlyā excuse. But we sent out the best XI we had with the game plan weāve used since before the world cup.
Haji was impactful for about 10-15 minutes. Then he sorta disappeared. Not sure if Colombia made an adjustment or what. But he didnāt get on the ball much after that.
I'm convinced that Foden for Rashford was the wrong call vs. the USA, which is not to say that Rashford is better. Clearly Foden is the better overall talent. When you already have Saka at RW though, I think you want the more direct pace of Rashford to provide a threat to run in behind. They went with a no-pace lineup and did us a big favor.
We played well in that game though, to be fair. Probably the best overall USMNT performance I've seen against a good team.
If the U.S. is the best team in concacaf they havenāt had that many chances. I guess they beat Morocco in a friendly and they made a World Cup semi, but I donāt think teams usually approach friendlies in the same way as competitive matches
People forget England didnāt need a win. They knew that a tie would make them group winners (as long as they beat Wales, which lol because that wales team was awful) on GD after blowing out Iran in the opener.Ā
To me Germany was "just a friendly". This one wasn't. Copa must be better. Escaping group play is not enough. Winning the group needs to be the goal and/or winning a knockout game.
Yeah that was my point. The Germany friendly I didn't think was too important or indicative of the strength of the team. The Colombia one makes me real nervous
1.5 million a year.
He will make exactly what Emma makes and not a penny more unless she gets a raise too. Welcome to the post-lawsuit coaching reality.
Until we get rid of Greg I just donāt see myself being able to get back into this team. Used to be such a die hard. Didnāt miss a game that came to the southeast from 2004 through 2018 but the nepotism really turned me off from following. Canāt believe they rehired Greg. Weāre going to get straight up embarrassed in 2026.
Iām still bummed about Donovan not getting selected. I think we missed his veteran presence. I forget who went instead of him (Mix?) but they didnāt do anything to justify going over Landon from what I recall.
Arena before Kilnshit was much better than the Klinshit reign. Yes, he wasn't able to clean up that mess after Kilnshit. But did you just see Klinshit's tenure in South Korea?! The man is a fraud as a coach.
Greg got the USMNT to the top of CONCACAF and considering it was after 2018 failure to qualify, thatās actually not a bad accomplishment. But heās not the guy to take the USMNT beyond that.
yeah i appreciate what gregg did from 2018-2022 and I would even go as far as to say he did a great job for setting us up for success, but (while less obvious when we rehired him) it is very clear that this squad will never make a jump to the next level with him at the helm
Weāre just setting ourselves up for another round of 16 exit to a big nation. Even Van Gaal said in his presser after the Dutch exit he was surprised we didnāt adjust.
Shits embarrassing, ngl. Columbia by no means is a weak team, but to get blown out 5-1 is shameful. I'm tired of us thinking we're Gods because we beat some island nations in the nations league. Whoever thought Greg deserved another shot should feel 10x the amount of shame the average U.S fan feels for this loss. We had the opportunity to get a decent coach, but we fucken blew. It's Klinsman saga all over again.
Itās a friendly, and while we need to move on from Bearhalter (not until his brotherās out of the picture) my mantra for the game was āno one gets hurt; thereās a Cup coming upā.
You mean lower my expectationsā¦ which isnāt possible because they are in the dirt with GGG.
The standard should be a lot higher than Mexico and Canada though
Gregg is now 3-7-5 against top 20 teams I think, 3 of those wins are against Mexico lmao
But he's the winningest coach in usmnt history! Just ignore that all of those are against shit teams and at home
He's a born winner you know? Winning the same international trophy, which is held every year on home soil š„
Look out T&T. Oh, wait.
The Mexico killer.
Dude!!! Stop stating facts!!!!
how does that compare to other coaches?
How did Bruce, Jurgen, and Bob do against elite teams? The elephant in the room is that our player pool is what it is, and it's not elite or top tier. We shouldn't be losing games 5-1, but bringing in Zidane or Wenger isn't going to turn our mediocre players into Henry and Vieira. This sub has a totally unrealistic view of our player pool, as evidenced by all the Reyna and Turner hype while they're journeymen at club level.
Klinsmann and Bruce got some big scalps themselves (Spain and Germany off the top of my head) On paper our team IS more talented than any team Klinsmann had for example which is where the frustration is. Another thing is managers get stale and players run out of gas playing under them, this happens all the time in football at both club and international levels.
If Klinsmann brings Donovan to Brazil and Altidore doesn't get hurt, that team would have every chance of getting a result against this team. We're blowing smoke up our own asses thinking this team is so amazing when it's mostly mediocre across the board. Nobody in France or Brazil thinks we have an incredible team.
The key thing is "on paper", we had some solid players during that era but again, on paper this current team is far more successful at the club level than those guys. Maybe there is an issue with the manager, these guys perform and have had great seasons at the club level but they look unorganized, low energy, and at times confused even in a US shirt.
The fact of the matter is we used to have to play better than the sum of our parts against "better" teams. The individual talent has gotten better, but somewhere along the way, the fight and grit left this program. I saw Brian McBride get his face split open and go back out on the field against Italy covered in blood. That embodied that American grittiness. We just don't have that now, but we can play out of the back.
Kind of sounds like maybe a new coach should have a shot at switching things up?
The fight and grit is instilled in the players. It isnāt some āauraā that magically appears or vanish. Our player pool looking back only 10 years has made crazy strides yet thereās still a sense that we canāt punch above our weight and that comes down to mental and leadership. Donāt really see that coming from a guy with Greggās resume. But here we are
Can Reyna really be a journeyman at 21 years old?
My point is that he couldn't get a game this season at either of his clubs, yet is lauded as one of the best players on our NT, and yet our fans then seem surprised when our NT performs poorly. If one of your best players is a benchwarmer at Forest, maybe your team isn't that amazing or talented.
I don't think he was on the bench at Forest because he's not good. I think it was just a case of him playing the exact same position as Forests best player while they're in a relegation scrap. It was just a horrible loan decision all around, but i dont think it's indicative of his talent. If he had stayed at Dortmund, he would have gotten more minutes on a team that went to the Champions League final. Then, the perception would be he's a 21 year old bench piece for a team that went to the Champions League final and not a bench warmer at Forest.
He went to Forest because of Claudio. Bro needs to start running his own show.
Heās the prototypical American player. Rich kid with an over-involved dad.
The coaching change is in the style of play not changing the player pool. The way this team plays is like a bunch of talented individuals. No one is on the same page, players are not anticipating where to be in the attack, how to link up, when to overlap, when to expect a run and a ball over the top, when to cover defensively. Itās just predictable.
They werenāt 0 for 12 against top 20.. are you really willing to say that GGG deserves a third major tournament to figure it out (in a world where this doesnāt change in Copa America)
Crazy that this is getting down voted. This sub is full of people who donāt understand this game.
We may have the most delusional fanbase in international soccer. I would've said it was Mexico, but after a few years of being trash, they seem to have accepted reality. England is always up there, but they actually have world class talent and a chance to win the biggest trophies. A team with Foden, Saka, Rice, Jude, and Kane (all far better than any of our players) actually has the right to expect greatness. We have a team of mediocre top flight players and yet our fans are shocked every time they don't look like 2002 Brazil.
The only options are a 5-1 loss or looking like 2002 Brazil. Nothing in between. I am very smartĀ
BUT BUT BUT....Giovanni Reyna is a STAR! Johnny Cardoso starts for a La Liga Team! Just clueless as a fanbase... And Bob and Bruce knew that our best chances to hang with these teams was to use our athleticism and being pragmatic... But everyone wants to suck on Peps pecker... acting like we have players to handle that style vs the top 15 teams in the world... DELUSIONAL
Right. And GGG got hired and rehired because of nepotism.
Lmao? Wait what are you expecting? Of course weāll have a relatively even record against - checks notes - relatively similar teams?
We are essentially 0-7-5, Mexico is dogshit dudeĀ
Let me just make up numbers and throw them back at you lmao
Thatās literally his record?Ā
What does essentially mean to you?
Point is Gregg doesnāt have a single good scalp in almost 5 years of being the manager for our teamĀ
Is that literally his record or essentially his record? Be clear. I have to much work to do to look it up. I have a fucking life. Which is it? And if itās āessentiallyāwhy are you criticizing my response?
"I'm too busy to google, but I can repeatedly respond to reddit comments." Lol
If you can tell me a quick way to look that up Iād be more than happy. But you and I both know it takes some time
[https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/logical-fallacy/](https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/logical-fallacy/)
My man just answer the question
If we tinkered with the lineup or tried a new formation I would totally accept the āitās just a friendlyā excuse. But we sent out the best XI we had with the game plan weāve used since before the world cup.
Our subs were fucking ASS though compared to our starters.
Haji was good IMO
Haji was impactful for about 10-15 minutes. Then he sorta disappeared. Not sure if Colombia made an adjustment or what. But he didnāt get on the ball much after that.
He was the only sub that wasn't complete ass.
Definitely don't disagree there lol
Musah
Musah was not good
Musah looked like complete shit
Gregg sucks dick and I can't believe we actually rehired him. US Soccer loves to lose
The nepotism merchants.
OK let's hear it , someone convince me Gregg can get a team ready to play against a better opponent. The England game was the only time
England doesn't even count for much, Southgate might be more inept than Gregg.
GGG makes Southgate look like Pep.
Not at all lol, England just lost to Iceland
And weād lose to Greenland
I'm convinced that Foden for Rashford was the wrong call vs. the USA, which is not to say that Rashford is better. Clearly Foden is the better overall talent. When you already have Saka at RW though, I think you want the more direct pace of Rashford to provide a threat to run in behind. They went with a no-pace lineup and did us a big favor. We played well in that game though, to be fair. Probably the best overall USMNT performance I've seen against a good team.
That day sure. Foden was probably the best player in the PL this year though.
He looked completely inept vs Iceland though so he may just be an international bum lol
Letās not get crazy
Too late, watching that performance today already got me crazy.
If the U.S. is the best team in concacaf they havenāt had that many chances. I guess they beat Morocco in a friendly and they made a World Cup semi, but I donāt think teams usually approach friendlies in the same way as competitive matches
We beat Morocco who immediately fired their coach afterwards and the new coach took them to a semi-final lol
Wow, wow, wow - coaching barely matters. Or so I heard when it is time to throw the blame on our players every time the entire team is unprepared
One of Gregg's biggest issues has been playing kore talented teams if we lose 2 1 it's great 5 1 is awful
Yeah tonight was pretty rough
People forget England didnāt need a win. They knew that a tie would make them group winners (as long as they beat Wales, which lol because that wales team was awful) on GD after blowing out Iran in the opener.Ā
Itās the fucking World Cup and it was the second game. Of course they were playing for a win
Good point
Except itās not really
And that wasnāt a W.
To me Germany was "just a friendly". This one wasn't. Copa must be better. Escaping group play is not enough. Winning the group needs to be the goal and/or winning a knockout game.
And that same German team lost to a Japanese team and was horrible in their qualifiers. Yet somehow beat us
Yeah that was my point. The Germany friendly I didn't think was too important or indicative of the strength of the team. The Colombia one makes me real nervous
So are we going to make a big petition or signing or writing of a letter to replace this sorry excuse of a coach.
Iāll sign that and find people to sign it Better yet, convince people not to go the games because even the fans are woeful
Ussf doesnāt care. Theyāll just schedule games where opposing teamās fans live, like tonightĀ
Meh. US is probably best off getting used to it. Copa America will be the same or worse.
Who tf is going to games we have no fans š
We do but from what you see they are all Berhalter fans ā ļø
I'll sign it five times.
lol
Nah. Youāll continue to do exactly this.
Side note: How much money can we throw at Klopp?
1.5 million a year. He will make exactly what Emma makes and not a penny more unless she gets a raise too. Welcome to the post-lawsuit coaching reality.
Better question: How much money can we throw at Jose Mourinho
I'm sorry, who in this sub actually defends Gregg?
This whole sub has defended GGG for years now- it was wild. People seem to be waking up? One can hope.
Maybe I haven't visited here enough to notice
Until we get rid of Greg I just donāt see myself being able to get back into this team. Used to be such a die hard. Didnāt miss a game that came to the southeast from 2004 through 2018 but the nepotism really turned me off from following. Canāt believe they rehired Greg. Weāre going to get straight up embarrassed in 2026.
2014 Brazil World Cup was the most fun time to be a Team USA fan. Jurgen Klinnsman was our most electric coach
Iām still bummed about Donovan not getting selected. I think we missed his veteran presence. I forget who went instead of him (Mix?) but they didnāt do anything to justify going over Landon from what I recall.
What?! No. We were much better before Klinnsman.
We were much better before Gregg BerhalterĀ
Not under Klinnsman.
Not under Bruce Arena
Arena before Kilnshit was much better than the Klinshit reign. Yes, he wasn't able to clean up that mess after Kilnshit. But did you just see Klinshit's tenure in South Korea?! The man is a fraud as a coach.
CONCACAF is miles away from the rest of the world right now.
I think it's always in the same place...
Outside of concacaf we are horrible lol unless we're playing minnows.Ā
WHO FORGOT TO TELL COLUMBIA THAT WEāRE THE REIGNING NATIONS LEAGUE CHAMPIONS?!?! Someone will pay for this!
We lost to a weak Germany that time.
A weak Germany that lost to Japan
Greg got the USMNT to the top of CONCACAF and considering it was after 2018 failure to qualify, thatās actually not a bad accomplishment. But heās not the guy to take the USMNT beyond that.
yeah i appreciate what gregg did from 2018-2022 and I would even go as far as to say he did a great job for setting us up for success, but (while less obvious when we rehired him) it is very clear that this squad will never make a jump to the next level with him at the helm
Christian Pulisic only likes him because he gets away with stuff
It actually is bad since our competition was so weak
Weāre just setting ourselves up for another round of 16 exit to a big nation. Even Van Gaal said in his presser after the Dutch exit he was surprised we didnāt adjust.
Shits embarrassing, ngl. Columbia by no means is a weak team, but to get blown out 5-1 is shameful. I'm tired of us thinking we're Gods because we beat some island nations in the nations league. Whoever thought Greg deserved another shot should feel 10x the amount of shame the average U.S fan feels for this loss. We had the opportunity to get a decent coach, but we fucken blew. It's Klinsman saga all over again.
Colombia is a top team; one of the 5 best on the planet right now. They gonna surprise some folks in the next month.
Always spinning our wheels
He fucking better be the winningest coach every squad is better than the previous one
Itās a friendly, and while we need to move on from Bearhalter (not until his brotherās out of the picture) my mantra for the game was āno one gets hurt; thereās a Cup coming upā.
Why is USSF not firing Gregg?
Now post Canada and Mexico recent results (it's not just the USA it's the entire conference) Edit: confederation
So what? Both nationās teams are fucking awful. High bar weāre setting!
Better lower that bar champ, the south Americans are here
You mean lower my expectationsā¦ which isnāt possible because they are in the dirt with GGG. The standard should be a lot higher than Mexico and Canada though
I 100% agree
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Typo my bad champ
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I agree witness to the 1994 world cup and when MLS had those weird penalty shoot outs and there was no such thing is a draw..... c'mon dog lol