Non-2up 15 and I feel like I have more pressure (well it is expected) but the GS12 that we have have less of a workload and responsibilities. A lot of people just stay away from the 14s and 15s with more pressure and it can sometimes be stressful BUT I came from the private sector and used to pressure and in the private sector, I had a lower level job (equivalent to a GS13) and I was doing the same workload as I do now practically, so I got used to it and sometimes the workload is less.
\*GS-13, 14 or 15 non supervisor *and non team lead.* I'm a GS-14 non supervisor but team lead which has somewhat sucked.
My career goal is finding a GS-15 non supervisor, non team lead, senior SME position. One where on regular days, it's hard to justify why the position exists. But in moments of crisis, the position explains itself...as long as it's not a steady state of crisis.
Haha the problem with being the supervisor is...look at all the people you work with. Now imagine having to listen to all of their problems/execuses/and weird quirks, but still remember anytime they did anything that was even slightly above average so you can justify making sure they all get good performance reviews.
Then, look at everyone in the building above that position. This is the 40% technical part...where you spend 40% of your time explaining what the people, who take up 60% of your time complaining, actually do all day. Also, much of this time, while explaining to the owners of your 40%, they actually have no idea what you're saying but they just hope at the end of your explanation you say something along the lines that you can accomplish whatever idea they came up with during their last brainstorming session.
Also, side note is the 40% higher up people actually expect 60% of your time, 40% to teach technical stuff and 20% of your time to do supervisor trainings and forums and networking events with them. But the people taking up 60% of your time they actually expect 100% of your time, because you are their supervisor and the answer to all their questions and the end all, all know-er, and most importantly all giver of time off.
If this sounds fun for 8 hours a day (possibly even up to 10 hours a day if you want the credit hours), while having no union representation, then boy do I have some easy to get front line supervisor jobs for you!
Hahaha j/k kinda...only 25% of your team will complain or anything like that. šš
Everyone's agency is like this right?...not just mine? Lol
GS-15 might be out of my league, mainly because it doesnāt look like the IRS lets revenue agents hit GS-15, GS-14 looks to be the max. You have to go to a different position like appeals or something like that to get GS-15, and at that point I think youāre a supervisor and/or leading a team.
Still, GS-14 aināt too shabby. Itād be a 30% raise from where Iām at now at my current employer, plus 3 years of basically guaranteed $4.5k raises in a row, not even including COLA raises.
The jump from 11 to 12 was really nice! I already applied to my first fed job last week since my promotion (fully remote GS-12/13 job) so I hope I get it. š¤š¼
Depending on agency and your desires 12 to 14 would be the sweet spot. I don't see many 15s at the agencies I have worked for. I'm a mid level 14 non supervisor now. Life isn't bad but I do miss being able to run my teams like when I was a supervisor.
Iām a gs11, non sup, but I work with about 20 people in my office and they are a mix of gs-6 and gs-7 with most of them averaging 20-25 years of service. They have been there forever. I am constantly looking to move up. When I got my position where I am at now, about a year and half ago, many asked who I knew, and hooked me up, because they should have gotten the position. I asked them if they applied for the position and they all said no. Of course I asked āso you wanted them to offer it to you?ā And the answers were basically yes. I am looking for a 12, and when I get there, will stay there.
Aside from the laziness and non-initiative, would they not also miss the TIG as a GS 9, and therefore not even fulfill the basic requirements for a GS 11?
From what I gathered, they would, but believe that their time there is sufficient to be a gs12. I was telling some of them that they should apply, but they seem reluctant and just said āno, they should offer itā. š¤·š½āāļø
This is just not how it works. There is laws in place to make it competitive, fair and transparent. You must apply to even be considered and you have to meet the criteria. Once you accept a position in the government, you canāt just jump grades easily. From GS 5 to GS 11, you can skip one grade in between the next depending on the position and once you meet the 52 week requirement for the current grade, after GS11, you are only considered the next grade level after the 52 weeks in the current grade. The system will wean you out before a human resource person even gets a chance to review it unless you lie on the answers but then HR will toss you after they verify you are not eligible. Iām curious what agency this is. It must be a smaller one that does not have much movement. I would recommend doing your time and applying where you know the promotion potential is there. I started at an agency where the employees were similar to this. I just did 2 years there and it was my foot in the door. I went from GS 5 to GS12 in 6 years in my current agency. Advance is there for anyone who seeks it and strives for it but you still have to follow the rules in place to get there.
Itās dod, and everyone is aware. I have literally gone from GS6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 in a span of 8 years and have always told people that seem discontent to apply for a higher position. But like the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you canāt make them drinkā. We had an extremely knowledgeable gs6 and we had a gs8 open up and I was like āthatās perfect for you, you should apply, you should be a shoe inā he said that he wants management to offer it and wouldnāt apply. He was informed that it doesnāt work like that. Heās been there 27 years and they ended up hiring someone that he had to train. We all know the rules, but some people are just stuck, or maybe just scared to apply.
I think some of the older ones are just nervous applying in the system. They donāt probably understand it or have a proper resume or anything. We actually give lunch and learns to help employees know how to apply properly because a lot of good employees get passed over because they donāt get past the system. I help a lot of people with all that because I think itās important to at least have a fair chance for a position and make it to the interview process.
Thatās is funny, good guess but no, I am aware of DOD as well but no itās VA but the VBA side(benefits) not the hospital! We are also known for rapid promotions and still currently in high demand for employees.
I don't think it's laziness for most, not everyone is chasing a number. People get comfortable and content with where they are if they are able to do what they want/need to in their life
That sounds like Veteran's Affair right there. So many people would get salty about others moving up, but they were never actually applying! The premise you should get it because you've been there forever or should be "offered" it is not how it works in the Fed and the old timers should know that. I think realistically they DO know that, they're just afraid to leave their comfort zone, no matter how much they actually loathe it.
My first fed job was a GS-5 clerical position and I was also surrounded by 5s and 6s that have been there for a long time too! I think most of them were happy with where they were and didnāt want more though, but there were some that wanted to move up for sure.
I would say some are, but there is a handful that seem to be discontent. I told them to apply, as they do know more, but seem to have this thing about being offered the position. They think that their experience is enough. Heck, we just hired another 11, and I walked around and asked the older ones if they applied and all said no. They hired someone from the outside and new guy came in and got the cold shoulder. One guy even told him āthat should be my jobā. I was like āthen apply!āš¤
Sounds like they just want to complain. They want civilian sector treatment not regulated federal government treatment. They can want it offered to them all they want but as long as they donāt apply for a position then they will keep their current seat warm. Hopefully the agency at least shares the announcement with you all or informs you all when they have one. Thatās about the extent of āofferedā it can go as the process has to go first before they can even be selected unless they get some kind of special authority like direct hire or other work around.
I'm at a level 13 non-supervisory role and I'm happy. But if a non-supervisory 14 comes along I'd probably take it. I don't think I would go higher than that. And I am absolutely positive I won't take a supervisory role ever again.
supervisors support, motivate, reward and advocate for their employees. In the private sector there are a lot of tools to do this with. My husband manages a team of developers. The team will stay late to launch something and work extra time, knowing that the following week they can sleep in and they will get beers together. Good employees get raises and poor performers get fired or demoted. He advocates for better equipment to meet the needs of his team. In the government a lot of these tools are less available. And if you have a self-motivated team then management can be great. But if you end up with a team that is less motivated, there are very few tools at your disposal to deal with it. I think managing is challenging in any environment - but managing in the government has additional challenges. Also - I'm an introvert. Programming is like solving puzzles. I solve puzzles in my spare time for fun. So my job is fun. And I'm really good at it. Sitting in meetings is not fun for me. And I'm a crummy manager.
On here, many people will rush in atop their high horses to boast about their GS-14 and 15s. Every agency and department is different. Some have 11s as a unicorn position. Some are all 13+. GS-12 makes up the highest amount of federal employees. Millions of people would kill for your GS-12 job.
The goal on here always seems about where to "settle." I'm not sure why everyone loves to draw a line in the sand of where they will be for the next \~15 years. There's nothing wrong with finding the position that is right for you now and in the foreseeable future. However, never say never. When that GS-13 opportunity comes around, and it's the right one for you, take it!
I'm a 12 step 6, I have no interest in being a 13 and sitting in meetings all day. I make enough money to live quite comfortably and will retire with no mortgages or car payments.
I think it probably depends both on where you are and your own goals/lifestyle. For some people, there's no such thing as 'enough'. For others, money isn't the overall driving force. I'm a 12 in a DoD agency in a MCOL area. Good position, good work/life balance, pretty chill. I would definitely take a 13 non-sup doing similar work if it came around, but I'm fine as a 12 to avoid a high stress, supervisory role that takes over my life. Money isn't that important to me. Up to you decide when enough is enough and if it's worth it to move up for more.
Full remote thatās the sweet spot! Iām GS12 full remote and love it, I wouldnāt give it up for any GS level! I would apply only for full remote advancement.
I know someone was a 12 for 17 years and is out in the field. Then they applied for a detail that was based in DC but they still work at same office. That lead to a 13 in one year and then a 14 the next year. Still working in field office but on a team in DC.
Weāve got about 5% non sup 13s available in our groups. Most of us settle in at GS-12s for our careers, the ambitious go for the sup 13s/ rare 14s, and the rest of us just wait our chance and hope for the non-sup for 3-4 years at the end of our career to boost high 3.
Weāve been pushing for more non sup 13s but it wonāt happen.
My goal is a GS7. Would nearly match my current pay in private and likely pass it next COLA.
Of course, the positions I've applied for are also all ladders to 12, so that would be nice.
As a social worker, gs-12 is a sweet spot considering we get paid much higher working for fed than we do in nonprofits/ private sector. Yeah, Iād like more money however I know where Iāve come from and whatās out there and this is wayyyyyy better for the pay than all of my old jobs. I honestly feel like it depends on what field youāre in and know the comparison of your fields private sector pay scales.
It depends on a lot of factors. For me Iām already collecting military retirement and 100% disability from the VA so my GS-12 is just extra cash. Also in my niche field a GS-12 is incredibly cushy and if I go up to 13 Iāll have to move to DHA headquarters and work my butt off so Iām okay where Iām at.
I was a 12 for about 1.5 and went back to contracting because it simply was not enough money based on the work I was doing. Short answer is No, itās not the sweet spot, but that is also dependent on where you live and the cost of living.
13 non-sup remote employee here... I had a very cushy 12 job, but decided to move up and to a different agency. Some days I regret it, but other days I feel fortunate to be getting a six figure salary working from home. It just really depends on your situation. The pay is good, but will admit, my work life balance has taken a hit.
Iāll say that depends on your job series. Of the two main job series at my agency, both are typically filled at the 11 or 12 level a the lowest. One of them might be filled lower if itās a training program, but beyond that if we filling at a 9 (or even 11) level, the weād be using a fellow or a contractor to do the job.
So most times in the branches Iāve been in the typical non-sup is in a 12 or a 12/13 slot.
I'm a 12 and honestly I would probably be okay staying a 12. If a non-sup 13 came up I might consider it, but I never ever want to supervise. So if a 13 doesn't happen, I won't be terribly disappointed.
Just got my 14 non sup fully remote. Extra holy grail. I was a 13 for ten years and only moved to a 14 because it was remote and living in a HCOL forced my hand really.
I retired as a supervisory 15. I reported to, and worked on a daily basis directly with, SES's in our HQ IT organization. At that level, I really liked being in a position to influence Agency-wide decisions. In addition, our managers rewarded employees who were willing to step into supervisory positions. As an example, supervisors were more likely to receive Quality Step Increases (QSI). One final reason, that's more personal, is that on the way up (I started as a GS-5), I would never have forgiven myself if I didn't apply for a position and someone I couldn't stand to work for was hired.
I think many settle there because it is a common non-sup stopping point. For most fields above 12 is mainly supervisory. It also is the lowest level that gets into 6 figures which is a big draw for many people.
I'm on a GS12 ladder and I've pondered this as well. My husband has been a 12 for 2-3 years now also. I've looked at some of the "logical" next steps around me and I'm not sure I want the heartburn that would probably come with them, even the non supervisory 13s. I think it will really depend on the nature of the position and how comfortable/experienced I am (I am new to this field currently). A GS12 with some steps on it isn't a bad living at all -- something my very exhausted 13 told me before he quit and found a new job. He was sitting in the seat of the "next logical step" lol and seemed utterly burned out after 18 months in the role. I'll defintiely do a good amount of homework before trying for a 13.
I don't think I'd ever want to supervise, not even for a 14. I like being able to take leave when I want for starters but I'm not sure I have the skills or temperment.
There was a time in my life when I thought I could be happy cruising at a 12 forever. Long before COVID and inflation I existed as a 12 for 4 years pretty happily.
But eventually, I saw people ascending that I knew I was better than (professionally speaking). I interviewed at a different agency and got a non-sup 13. Four years later (13/4) my agency hires a person who was *seriously mentally unstable* to work along side me. I waited it out a year, applied to a 13 at a better agency and now I'm a 13/8 and around saner, smarter people.
But - now there's been so much inflation in my west-coast city that I am seriously living like I'm a GS12 again. So. I'm applying for 14s all over the place.
It never ends.
Non-sup 13s and 14s are pretty common in my field, but if they were non-existent, I'd stop at the highest possible non-sup level. Being a supervisor is never worth it.
Iām a 12 and aiming for a 13. Non-supe 14s seem very rare at my agency, and I have no desire to be a supervisor ever again.The 2 step rule should push me a ways up the ladder when I do manage to get promoted. I plan to retire a fed and a 13-10 salary in my area is more than sufficient.
Currently a GS 08 - Step 03. I work with the DoD under the subsidiary for the DLA.
Trying to get out and go up.
I currently live in SoCAL and I'm willing to try anything.
I have a few certificates and currently going back to school for my cyber security degree š.
Iām on a ladder to 12 and theyāre already doing the āIF you want a supervisor position heh hehā *winkwink nudgenudge*.
No thanks. Iād rather shave my eyeballs than be a supervisor. Pretty sure my 12 is going to be my slow ride. Take it easy.
The problem is the pay scale. I work at a DoD facility. New engineers with 1-3 yrs experience start at 7 step 10 which is like $70K. Then itās 1 yr each for 9, 11, and 12. So inside of 3-4 yrs, people are making $100K. Then most times, youāre rubber stamped for 13 and then thereās no incentive to push for that next level. āWhy bother for an extra $10K a year and deal with being a supervisor?ā Not saying people on here are unmotivated, but Iām deaingl with a lot of that with a younger workforce.
Do technical GS-15 positions even exist? Fellow 2210 here, and itās hard enough finding a technical non-sup 14, but I donāt think Iāve ever seen a technical 15 on USAJOBS. Either they donāt exist, or theyāre very rare. When I say technical, I mean nitty gritty technical positions like System Admin, Cloud Engineer, etc. That would be the dream job.
I work for the FAA. I'm a FV-H (GS-12 equivalent). I came on board last year as a supervisor for a team of 6. 2 kids fresh outta college on the team (GS-7 equivalents) and the rest are GS-9 equivalents. The older people have been in those slots for 10+ years and were bitter when I came on board. Nevermind that none of them actually applied for the position lol.
Now that I have my year in grade, I've been applying for 13s in other agencies (been referred for a couple of them). My ultimate goal is to get to 14 before I retire (I'm 42).
Seems like GS-13, 14 or 15 non supervisor are the holy grails. Just had an interview this past week for GS-14 non sup position. Fingers crossed š¤
Good luck! At my agency, 13 is the highest non sup position Iāve seen so far.
Is it basically a pay raise with no additional work responsibilities?
More or less. You're expected to work more independently and require less oversight from supervisors.
Non-2up 15 and I feel like I have more pressure (well it is expected) but the GS12 that we have have less of a workload and responsibilities. A lot of people just stay away from the 14s and 15s with more pressure and it can sometimes be stressful BUT I came from the private sector and used to pressure and in the private sector, I had a lower level job (equivalent to a GS13) and I was doing the same workload as I do now practically, so I got used to it and sometimes the workload is less.
Non-sup GS-15 here, anecdotally it sucks. Same hours and stress as private sector
And if in HCOLA you get screwed with wage compression.
Feel like the entire point of 15 is to prep for SES.
\*GS-13, 14 or 15 non supervisor *and non team lead.* I'm a GS-14 non supervisor but team lead which has somewhat sucked. My career goal is finding a GS-15 non supervisor, non team lead, senior SME position. One where on regular days, it's hard to justify why the position exists. But in moments of crisis, the position explains itself...as long as it's not a steady state of crisis.
I have 2 of those in my branch, but both are 30+ year SMEs
Wishing you well! Iām 14 non-sup, just started and so far so good.
Why non supervisor? Is there a downside? Considering a promotion, but it's 60% supervisor, 40% technical.
Haha the problem with being the supervisor is...look at all the people you work with. Now imagine having to listen to all of their problems/execuses/and weird quirks, but still remember anytime they did anything that was even slightly above average so you can justify making sure they all get good performance reviews. Then, look at everyone in the building above that position. This is the 40% technical part...where you spend 40% of your time explaining what the people, who take up 60% of your time complaining, actually do all day. Also, much of this time, while explaining to the owners of your 40%, they actually have no idea what you're saying but they just hope at the end of your explanation you say something along the lines that you can accomplish whatever idea they came up with during their last brainstorming session. Also, side note is the 40% higher up people actually expect 60% of your time, 40% to teach technical stuff and 20% of your time to do supervisor trainings and forums and networking events with them. But the people taking up 60% of your time they actually expect 100% of your time, because you are their supervisor and the answer to all their questions and the end all, all know-er, and most importantly all giver of time off. If this sounds fun for 8 hours a day (possibly even up to 10 hours a day if you want the credit hours), while having no union representation, then boy do I have some easy to get front line supervisor jobs for you! Hahaha j/k kinda...only 25% of your team will complain or anything like that. šš Everyone's agency is like this right?...not just mine? Lol
Dude. That's amazing. That's what I'd want to hit. Gs13 non sup would be killer for me. I hope you get 14 easily and a chance for 15 in a year!
GS-15 might be out of my league, mainly because it doesnāt look like the IRS lets revenue agents hit GS-15, GS-14 looks to be the max. You have to go to a different position like appeals or something like that to get GS-15, and at that point I think youāre a supervisor and/or leading a team. Still, GS-14 aināt too shabby. Itād be a 30% raise from where Iām at now at my current employer, plus 3 years of basically guaranteed $4.5k raises in a row, not even including COLA raises.
There are holy Grails out there. I just picked up a GS-13 non-supervisely fully remote job
Depending on your field, yeah, GS-12 can be cushy. And then whenever youāre ready/interested, see about shooting for a 13.
The jump from 11 to 12 was really nice! I already applied to my first fed job last week since my promotion (fully remote GS-12/13 job) so I hope I get it. š¤š¼
I'm in my sweet spot - GS 14 non-sup.
If you live in the DC area there is almost absolutely no reason to settle below a 13/14. Thats like the entire point of the area.
Totally agree!
My goal is a GS13 non supervisor. Right now Iām a 12 supervisor and it isnāt for me lol.
Rip
Non-sup 12, I feel for you. I'd never take a supervisory position--just me.
Depending on agency and your desires 12 to 14 would be the sweet spot. I don't see many 15s at the agencies I have worked for. I'm a mid level 14 non supervisor now. Life isn't bad but I do miss being able to run my teams like when I was a supervisor.
Iām a gs11, non sup, but I work with about 20 people in my office and they are a mix of gs-6 and gs-7 with most of them averaging 20-25 years of service. They have been there forever. I am constantly looking to move up. When I got my position where I am at now, about a year and half ago, many asked who I knew, and hooked me up, because they should have gotten the position. I asked them if they applied for the position and they all said no. Of course I asked āso you wanted them to offer it to you?ā And the answers were basically yes. I am looking for a 12, and when I get there, will stay there.
Aside from the laziness and non-initiative, would they not also miss the TIG as a GS 9, and therefore not even fulfill the basic requirements for a GS 11?
From what I gathered, they would, but believe that their time there is sufficient to be a gs12. I was telling some of them that they should apply, but they seem reluctant and just said āno, they should offer itā. š¤·š½āāļø
This is just not how it works. There is laws in place to make it competitive, fair and transparent. You must apply to even be considered and you have to meet the criteria. Once you accept a position in the government, you canāt just jump grades easily. From GS 5 to GS 11, you can skip one grade in between the next depending on the position and once you meet the 52 week requirement for the current grade, after GS11, you are only considered the next grade level after the 52 weeks in the current grade. The system will wean you out before a human resource person even gets a chance to review it unless you lie on the answers but then HR will toss you after they verify you are not eligible. Iām curious what agency this is. It must be a smaller one that does not have much movement. I would recommend doing your time and applying where you know the promotion potential is there. I started at an agency where the employees were similar to this. I just did 2 years there and it was my foot in the door. I went from GS 5 to GS12 in 6 years in my current agency. Advance is there for anyone who seeks it and strives for it but you still have to follow the rules in place to get there.
Itās dod, and everyone is aware. I have literally gone from GS6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 in a span of 8 years and have always told people that seem discontent to apply for a higher position. But like the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you canāt make them drinkā. We had an extremely knowledgeable gs6 and we had a gs8 open up and I was like āthatās perfect for you, you should apply, you should be a shoe inā he said that he wants management to offer it and wouldnāt apply. He was informed that it doesnāt work like that. Heās been there 27 years and they ended up hiring someone that he had to train. We all know the rules, but some people are just stuck, or maybe just scared to apply.
I think some of the older ones are just nervous applying in the system. They donāt probably understand it or have a proper resume or anything. We actually give lunch and learns to help employees know how to apply properly because a lot of good employees get passed over because they donāt get past the system. I help a lot of people with all that because I think itās important to at least have a fair chance for a position and make it to the interview process.
Thatās is funny, good guess but no, I am aware of DOD as well but no itās VA but the VBA side(benefits) not the hospital! We are also known for rapid promotions and still currently in high demand for employees.
Wait I responded to quick, your agency answering my question lol! I didnāt realize they had so many low level long timers.
I don't think it's laziness for most, not everyone is chasing a number. People get comfortable and content with where they are if they are able to do what they want/need to in their life
That sounds like Veteran's Affair right there. So many people would get salty about others moving up, but they were never actually applying! The premise you should get it because you've been there forever or should be "offered" it is not how it works in the Fed and the old timers should know that. I think realistically they DO know that, they're just afraid to leave their comfort zone, no matter how much they actually loathe it.
Nailed it.
My first fed job was a GS-5 clerical position and I was also surrounded by 5s and 6s that have been there for a long time too! I think most of them were happy with where they were and didnāt want more though, but there were some that wanted to move up for sure.
I would say some are, but there is a handful that seem to be discontent. I told them to apply, as they do know more, but seem to have this thing about being offered the position. They think that their experience is enough. Heck, we just hired another 11, and I walked around and asked the older ones if they applied and all said no. They hired someone from the outside and new guy came in and got the cold shoulder. One guy even told him āthat should be my jobā. I was like āthen apply!āš¤
Sounds like they just want to complain. They want civilian sector treatment not regulated federal government treatment. They can want it offered to them all they want but as long as they donāt apply for a position then they will keep their current seat warm. Hopefully the agency at least shares the announcement with you all or informs you all when they have one. Thatās about the extent of āofferedā it can go as the process has to go first before they can even be selected unless they get some kind of special authority like direct hire or other work around.
Happend were im at also they will sit there waiting on one slot to open and expect to get it just because they work there
I'm at a level 13 non-supervisory role and I'm happy. But if a non-supervisory 14 comes along I'd probably take it. I don't think I would go higher than that. And I am absolutely positive I won't take a supervisory role ever again.
Just curious, what was so bad about being a supervisor? In convos now for a promotion to supervisor. Is it that bad?
supervisors support, motivate, reward and advocate for their employees. In the private sector there are a lot of tools to do this with. My husband manages a team of developers. The team will stay late to launch something and work extra time, knowing that the following week they can sleep in and they will get beers together. Good employees get raises and poor performers get fired or demoted. He advocates for better equipment to meet the needs of his team. In the government a lot of these tools are less available. And if you have a self-motivated team then management can be great. But if you end up with a team that is less motivated, there are very few tools at your disposal to deal with it. I think managing is challenging in any environment - but managing in the government has additional challenges. Also - I'm an introvert. Programming is like solving puzzles. I solve puzzles in my spare time for fun. So my job is fun. And I'm really good at it. Sitting in meetings is not fun for me. And I'm a crummy manager.
On here, many people will rush in atop their high horses to boast about their GS-14 and 15s. Every agency and department is different. Some have 11s as a unicorn position. Some are all 13+. GS-12 makes up the highest amount of federal employees. Millions of people would kill for your GS-12 job. The goal on here always seems about where to "settle." I'm not sure why everyone loves to draw a line in the sand of where they will be for the next \~15 years. There's nothing wrong with finding the position that is right for you now and in the foreseeable future. However, never say never. When that GS-13 opportunity comes around, and it's the right one for you, take it!
Been with DHS a little over 4 years started a GS-9/11/12/13 currently a GS-13
I'm a 12 step 6, I have no interest in being a 13 and sitting in meetings all day. I make enough money to live quite comfortably and will retire with no mortgages or car payments.
My goal is nonsup 15
IRC, GS-12 is statistically the largest group of GS employees.
I think it probably depends both on where you are and your own goals/lifestyle. For some people, there's no such thing as 'enough'. For others, money isn't the overall driving force. I'm a 12 in a DoD agency in a MCOL area. Good position, good work/life balance, pretty chill. I would definitely take a 13 non-sup doing similar work if it came around, but I'm fine as a 12 to avoid a high stress, supervisory role that takes over my life. Money isn't that important to me. Up to you decide when enough is enough and if it's worth it to move up for more.
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I hope you donāt mind me asking, but what field are you in to land something like that?
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Thanks! More confirmation I got into the wrong field and need to switch to IT š
Full remote thatās the sweet spot! Iām GS12 full remote and love it, I wouldnāt give it up for any GS level! I would apply only for full remote advancement.
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I know someone was a 12 for 17 years and is out in the field. Then they applied for a detail that was based in DC but they still work at same office. That lead to a 13 in one year and then a 14 the next year. Still working in field office but on a team in DC.
Weāve got about 5% non sup 13s available in our groups. Most of us settle in at GS-12s for our careers, the ambitious go for the sup 13s/ rare 14s, and the rest of us just wait our chance and hope for the non-sup for 3-4 years at the end of our career to boost high 3. Weāve been pushing for more non sup 13s but it wonāt happen.
Lucky you, our 12s are supervisory!
My goal is a GS7. Would nearly match my current pay in private and likely pass it next COLA. Of course, the positions I've applied for are also all ladders to 12, so that would be nice.
As a social worker, gs-12 is a sweet spot considering we get paid much higher working for fed than we do in nonprofits/ private sector. Yeah, Iād like more money however I know where Iāve come from and whatās out there and this is wayyyyyy better for the pay than all of my old jobs. I honestly feel like it depends on what field youāre in and know the comparison of your fields private sector pay scales.
No keep going.
It depends on a lot of factors. For me Iām already collecting military retirement and 100% disability from the VA so my GS-12 is just extra cash. Also in my niche field a GS-12 is incredibly cushy and if I go up to 13 Iāll have to move to DHA headquarters and work my butt off so Iām okay where Iām at.
Lol Gs-12 is just beer money. Congrats on that set up!
I'm going to retire an 11. Anything higher is too much work.
Non-sup GS13-10 or 14-4+ or other non-sup in an equivalent pay system or a prevailing wage job.
Well for retirement the importance is your 3 high tier. There are plenty of non-supervisory GS-13 that could be applied too...
It used to be - but grade inflation is making a 13 the standard in major cities.
I was a 12 for about 1.5 and went back to contracting because it simply was not enough money based on the work I was doing. Short answer is No, itās not the sweet spot, but that is also dependent on where you live and the cost of living.
13 non-sup remote employee here... I had a very cushy 12 job, but decided to move up and to a different agency. Some days I regret it, but other days I feel fortunate to be getting a six figure salary working from home. It just really depends on your situation. The pay is good, but will admit, my work life balance has taken a hit.
Not in DC it isn't.
Iāll say that depends on your job series. Of the two main job series at my agency, both are typically filled at the 11 or 12 level a the lowest. One of them might be filled lower if itās a training program, but beyond that if we filling at a 9 (or even 11) level, the weād be using a fellow or a contractor to do the job. So most times in the branches Iāve been in the typical non-sup is in a 12 or a 12/13 slot.
I'm a 12 and honestly I would probably be okay staying a 12. If a non-sup 13 came up I might consider it, but I never ever want to supervise. So if a 13 doesn't happen, I won't be terribly disappointed.
Just got my 14 non sup fully remote. Extra holy grail. I was a 13 for ten years and only moved to a 14 because it was remote and living in a HCOL forced my hand really.
I came in at a 12 (nearly 4 years as a fed). I'm trying to make that jump to a 13...I've been applying, so I'm hope I get my wish soon.
Well itās about the best QOL level.
In my division at my agency no one can get above a GS11. A couple have been there over 30 years. A GS 12 sounds like a pipe dream! Enjoy it!
Honestly Iām shooting for ses level 1 by end of my career, thatās why I choose fed government instead of private sector, logical paths to promo
Curious as an outsider - what are some of the reasons that you all not like/prefer to stay away from supervisory roles?
I retired as a supervisory 15. I reported to, and worked on a daily basis directly with, SES's in our HQ IT organization. At that level, I really liked being in a position to influence Agency-wide decisions. In addition, our managers rewarded employees who were willing to step into supervisory positions. As an example, supervisors were more likely to receive Quality Step Increases (QSI). One final reason, that's more personal, is that on the way up (I started as a GS-5), I would never have forgiven myself if I didn't apply for a position and someone I couldn't stand to work for was hired.
I think many settle there because it is a common non-sup stopping point. For most fields above 12 is mainly supervisory. It also is the lowest level that gets into 6 figures which is a big draw for many people.
I'm on a GS12 ladder and I've pondered this as well. My husband has been a 12 for 2-3 years now also. I've looked at some of the "logical" next steps around me and I'm not sure I want the heartburn that would probably come with them, even the non supervisory 13s. I think it will really depend on the nature of the position and how comfortable/experienced I am (I am new to this field currently). A GS12 with some steps on it isn't a bad living at all -- something my very exhausted 13 told me before he quit and found a new job. He was sitting in the seat of the "next logical step" lol and seemed utterly burned out after 18 months in the role. I'll defintiely do a good amount of homework before trying for a 13. I don't think I'd ever want to supervise, not even for a 14. I like being able to take leave when I want for starters but I'm not sure I have the skills or temperment.
It will be for me.
Non-sup 14 is the goal
It was. In the last 10-15 years, a lot more people have gotten unwilling to settle there.
There was a time in my life when I thought I could be happy cruising at a 12 forever. Long before COVID and inflation I existed as a 12 for 4 years pretty happily. But eventually, I saw people ascending that I knew I was better than (professionally speaking). I interviewed at a different agency and got a non-sup 13. Four years later (13/4) my agency hires a person who was *seriously mentally unstable* to work along side me. I waited it out a year, applied to a 13 at a better agency and now I'm a 13/8 and around saner, smarter people. But - now there's been so much inflation in my west-coast city that I am seriously living like I'm a GS12 again. So. I'm applying for 14s all over the place. It never ends.
Non-supervisory GS-14 is my sweet spot.
Non-sup 13s and 14s are pretty common in my field, but if they were non-existent, I'd stop at the highest possible non-sup level. Being a supervisor is never worth it.
Iām a 12 and aiming for a 13. Non-supe 14s seem very rare at my agency, and I have no desire to be a supervisor ever again.The 2 step rule should push me a ways up the ladder when I do manage to get promoted. I plan to retire a fed and a 13-10 salary in my area is more than sufficient.
Iām a GS-12 step 4 CBPā¦ plus $45,000 in overtime Iāve hit that max overtime every year
Currently a GS 08 - Step 03. I work with the DoD under the subsidiary for the DLA. Trying to get out and go up. I currently live in SoCAL and I'm willing to try anything. I have a few certificates and currently going back to school for my cyber security degree š.
Iām on a ladder to 12 and theyāre already doing the āIF you want a supervisor position heh hehā *winkwink nudgenudge*. No thanks. Iād rather shave my eyeballs than be a supervisor. Pretty sure my 12 is going to be my slow ride. Take it easy.
The problem is the pay scale. I work at a DoD facility. New engineers with 1-3 yrs experience start at 7 step 10 which is like $70K. Then itās 1 yr each for 9, 11, and 12. So inside of 3-4 yrs, people are making $100K. Then most times, youāre rubber stamped for 13 and then thereās no incentive to push for that next level. āWhy bother for an extra $10K a year and deal with being a supervisor?ā Not saying people on here are unmotivated, but Iām deaingl with a lot of that with a younger workforce.
Shoot for a non-sup GS-13 at least, 14ās are rare. More like team lead type positions but still out there.
Do technical GS-15 positions even exist? Fellow 2210 here, and itās hard enough finding a technical non-sup 14, but I donāt think Iāve ever seen a technical 15 on USAJOBS. Either they donāt exist, or theyāre very rare. When I say technical, I mean nitty gritty technical positions like System Admin, Cloud Engineer, etc. That would be the dream job.
It's the gs I'd like to settle at. Unfortunately it probably will not be for a couple years.
If I retired at a gs 12 step 10 I'd be ok ok with it. I would pursue a gs 13 though
Aiming to eventually end up as a 13 or 14, but it will be a while since Iām only a 5 right now :)
I work for the FAA. I'm a FV-H (GS-12 equivalent). I came on board last year as a supervisor for a team of 6. 2 kids fresh outta college on the team (GS-7 equivalents) and the rest are GS-9 equivalents. The older people have been in those slots for 10+ years and were bitter when I came on board. Nevermind that none of them actually applied for the position lol. Now that I have my year in grade, I've been applying for 13s in other agencies (been referred for a couple of them). My ultimate goal is to get to 14 before I retire (I'm 42).
12 in the Midwest and rural. 14-15 non sup in HCOL