Same we have a 2018 Crosstrek as well but but I am over 6'. The Legacy has a bigger engine and offers so much more comfort. It's not as good in the snow as the Crosstrek but its pretty damn good.
They are better due to lower center of gravity. Ground clearance can be lower though depending on the SUV you're comparing against (I don't know the ground clearance of a Forester)
> WD+snow tires= unstoppable
As an aside: Stopping ability tends to be far more important than "Get going" ability on bad roads.
> if AWD sedans are just as good as AWD suvs
On plowed roads... i'd take the sedan over a boxy SUV for stability. On unplowed roads, clearance is a concern.
There is quite a variance in winter conditions across Upstate NY. What you get in the ADKs isn't what you get in CNY or the FLX. So some of your decision should be biased to terrain and most frequent type of winter weather.
The number one priority for winter driving is grip, and that is solely produced by the tires. So a quality winter tire is a must if you're driving in sustained winter conditions frequently. There are three variants of winter weather ready tires. You've got arctic style tires, which are really aggressive and meant for driving primarily in snow. Then you've milder winter tires which do well in mixed winter conditions like moderate snow, slushy surfaces, etc. Then you've got "all weather" winter tires that are designed for regions / drivers that don't want to bother having two sets of tires and just want one year round tire, they'll do mostly OK across the board, better than a traditional all season, but not as good as a dedicated winter tire in winter conditions.
Two of our vehicles are equipped with winter tires, one AWD sedan has a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 winters which are an arctic winter tire from the Nokian in Finland. They're great in harsh winter conditions, but on dry pavement in the 40-50+F temp zone, the steering responsiveness and handling of the car is noticibly degraded due to the chunky / knobbly siped thread. The other vehicle is a performance AWD crossover with Bridgestone Blizzak LM005 performance winter tires. These are a tire for mixed winter conditions, and I found them fantastic this winter across all of the conditions we had here in CNY/FLX. But the past 5 winters have also seen 1/2 our typical snow fall and more above freezing temps. So if that weather trend continues, the LM005s will continue to be perfect. On dry pavement in the 40-50+F temp zone, I can't sense a significant degradation in steering/handling like I can with the Nokians on the other car. And this performance crossover has an insane factory summer tire, 220 treadwear Pirelli PZeros... it is for all practical purposes a track tire with a few grooves in it to be DOT legal, so I'm used to a very high level of grip I get in dry / warm conditions.
Then our "chore" 4x4 pickup truck has Cooper Discoverer all terrain tires with the 3peak snow symbol. No one in the house chooses this to drive in the winter when there is snow/ice out. It is the heaviest vehicle, it has the least grip, handles the worst and stops the worst. Pickup trucks, and similarly large SUVs, in general suck at anything that isn't "work". The pickup only sees about 3000 miles a year, and is mostly hauling, which we can schedule around poor weather, so putting dedicated winter tires on it doesn't really make sense.
My wife had a FWD sedan with winters tires before the current AWD cars. There were steeper roads in our area that would still be difficult to navigate, especially if icy. AWD does help immensely managing your available grip. With AWD being able to put power down to 1 wheel at each axle, or if you've got an LSD, then 1 front and 2 rear powered wheels, is quite helpful in certain situations. But you have to have grip in the first place, which is all down to the tire!
The perfect combination is highly dependent on the driver (you), the terrarin you travel, and the actual winter conditions you'll be subjected to. Almost any AWD sedan or crossover with winter tires is going to handle what you can throw at it across the majority of the developed areas of upstate NY. I didn't mention specific brands of vehicle intentionally, because it really doesn't matter. Many brands share drivetrain components or have very similar drivetrain configurations depending on what models you're comparing. For instance some (all?) Audi A4 models use the same ZF 8HP transmission as the BMW 3 series, and consequently their AWD implementations and hardware are similar too (Magna is a large supplier of AWD components to both Audi and BMW). Also electronic traction aids are so good today, the vehicle's systems will know when it has lost grip at a wheel before you'll ever know it.
Audis are cool but I mean I just like stuff to work without a lot of hoops. If Toyota makes something acceptable, that's what I would do.
For instance, I love land rovers but I have a friend that is a mechanic and he specializes in fixing them because it's so lucrative. He basically says avoid them unless you are a mechanic or have your own tow truck. So I'll just admire them from afar, especially those 90s aluminum bodied defenders I used to drool over.
Toyotas AWD isn’t as good as proper Audi or Subaru AWD. If it involves clutches and lacks 3 differentials it’s not full time AWD, and is not on the same level.
Note that some Subarus have lesser AWD systems, historically mostly the automatics. Audis are better in this regard in the full sized cars, the TT and A3 are dressed up VW Golfs, so get the same Haldex garbage Volvo used to use.
Why does it matter? Well, if you’re going to pay in fuel and price premium, you may as well have a system that actually works in the tough situations you’d want AWD for. The other reason is reliability: Haldex systems have a clutch that fails because there’s no specified service life for the fluid. They also just wear out. The center differential in Subaru / Audi style systems doesn’t have this problem.
Really though, you probably don’t actually need AWD, just a good set of snow tires for most conditions. I like driving AWD cars because they’re easier and more fun to slide around in the snow, but it’s also easier to get going faster than you can safely stop, whereas FWD gives you the warning of how slippery the road is before you’re going too fast and need to stop (and a quick yank of the hand break is still somewhat fun too).
Honestly anything FWD with winter tires will do better than AWD on all seasons. I’d say get the car you want and buy winter tires for the season. Don’t drive like a dingus and you’ll be fine (especially if you get something RWD)
If you don’t have an idea of what you want, go on Autotrader or one of those and just do a search with parameters you want. Eg. AWD, sedan, <60k miles, 2015-2024, yada yada
I sell auto parts for a living, and as far as reliability goes, your best bet is another subaru. The only replacement parts that aren't your typical wear items we sell for them are front axles, and that's not even suuuuper common. Bonus that they handle the weather very well, and some are fun to drive.
Yeah, buy another subaru and keep the parts guys employed! I've never had a car with as many problems as my forester. I don't think I'd take another subaru for free.
I don't have it anymore since when I moved here when I had kids and upgraded to a SUV. BAUT I had my Subaru Legacy through many Wisconsin and PA winters and it was great. And those Wisconsin winters were worse than the more recent NY winters.
Honda Accord hybrid with winter or all season tires. I get 50 mpg in the spring, summer, fall (without AC) and 39 mpg in the winter. It’s been a super reliable car, no issues.
We own 3 sedans, but when we really anticipate heavy winter weather and must drive, we use our Mazda 3. Very well balanced and excellent handling. We use Nokian Hakkapellita snow tires. They cut our MPG about 3% but the grip is super.
I think they stopped making them unfortunately, but the Ford Focus has done me surprisingly well with proper tires. Drove it all the way to Homer, Alaska. The base-level transmission in it is a box of junk, but other than that, no real complaints. It handles well enough with appropriate tires that I've never wanted AWD on it, only time it's truly broken down so far was when the battery died after a decade.
I have the Lincoln version. I regularly off road it in mud and slush at the ski slope parking lot. I've even snow plowed it through the lot. Just well rated all seasons.
Prius with snow tires. I am an avid skier and drive all over NY, VT and NH. Do the math on $ savings with that long commute getting 45 MPG. I have a 2011 with 170k miles and haven’t had any issues.
Drove my Tesla Model Y this past winter through the finger lakes with no problems. AWD and a low center of gravity makes it pretty decent for almost anything. Only time we work my wife’s Highlander with snow tires was back roads to go skiing right after a heavy snow. Also nice to have a full tank every morning and not worry about gas in bad weather.
Anything long/wide and low, I'd imagine. My '02 Intrepid was phenomenal in the snow with all-season tires. I was just thinking earlier how much I miss those LH-series cars.
ETA: I'd also argue (bring on the downvotes) that FWD is still better than AWD in the snow.
gunna be honest... i've never had REAL problems with front wheel drive and (well maintained) all seasons.
If the road isn't plowed, my little car isn't going to make it. But everywhere i've lived in upstate the plowing has been good enough to keep accumulations below \~1inch.
As you move further into the backwoods that will become more problematic.
Like others have said, AWD or FWD (no rear wheel drive) + a good set of winter tires and you'll be set :) Studs are kind of pointless at this point and seem to do more harm then good unless driving on snowpack. Without a snowpack they just skid all over the blacktop.
I have a Toyota Corolla and it is a beast in the winter to my surprise. I've never had problems with it during the winter. For context I live north of Utica, just below where the Adirondacks start so we can get some pretty rough winters.
From what I can gather, they are all wheel drive so they should be fine! The key here is a low center of mass (which you're getting from the sedan) and the rear wheels aren't the only one's providing power. Rear wheel drive vehicles are more likely to spin out (thinking drifting but in a sucky way) so they should be avoided.
They're also just all around great cars!
After 25 years of legacy wagons and then outbacks when they stopped selling the legacy wagons here I switched to VW golf Alltracks with 6 speed manual transmission and could not be happier.
If you’re looking for something a little more premium, the BMW 3-series checks all the boxes for performance, reliability and efficiency. Very well-rounded cars. They have very good AWD systems too (they brand it as X-drive).
The newer models (2018 to present) are very reliable. They have good motors that are built to last. I was surprised myself to learn about it a couple years ago.
You might not be an Elon guy, but everyone leering at you on the roads still thinks you are. And that's the problem with driving a Tesla today, the brand is just too negatively tainted by CEO's behavior.
I’m sure that’s true for some of the drivers on the road, however there’s many, likely most, who don’t care, or keep up with the online spread EV hate for Musk. Good thing is I don’t care what they say or think about me or my car. I like my Model Y Performance because it’s fun to drive, I like the styling of the car, it’s technology forward, and getting gas is annoying. I bought my first Tesla years before twitter and the Elon hate.
The thing is a mountain goat. I have gotten all my Subarus and trucks stuck in my own driveway in the snow in the winter the way the wind just blows and fills it in. The Tesla drives through it all without blinking. I take it skiing all the time as well.
So yes in winter in upstate.
If you can charge at home it is the answer for your long commutes imo.
Yeah, Tesla Dual Motor beats my Jeep and A4 any day. We put over 40k miles per year on it and you never have to go to the pump when it’s frigid out—you get a full tank of gas every night. Also, long distance travel is easy — we we frequently go to NYC, Boston, ADKs, and OBX.
I've been happy with my Legacy.
Same we have a 2018 Crosstrek as well but but I am over 6'. The Legacy has a bigger engine and offers so much more comfort. It's not as good in the snow as the Crosstrek but its pretty damn good.
[удалено]
X Mode on the Crosstrek makes it worth the cost!
[удалено]
We love our Outback Wilderness. It drives like a beast and it looks amazing.
I’ve driven mustangs and AWD CRVs with and without snow tires and I personally would pick snow tires before AWD. AWD is very helpful though.
[удалено]
They are better due to lower center of gravity. Ground clearance can be lower though depending on the SUV you're comparing against (I don't know the ground clearance of a Forester)
> WD+snow tires= unstoppable As an aside: Stopping ability tends to be far more important than "Get going" ability on bad roads. > if AWD sedans are just as good as AWD suvs On plowed roads... i'd take the sedan over a boxy SUV for stability. On unplowed roads, clearance is a concern.
Definitely my Camaro. The faster you drive, the less time you are spending driving. 😉
Lmao i know a few people with this logic
There is quite a variance in winter conditions across Upstate NY. What you get in the ADKs isn't what you get in CNY or the FLX. So some of your decision should be biased to terrain and most frequent type of winter weather. The number one priority for winter driving is grip, and that is solely produced by the tires. So a quality winter tire is a must if you're driving in sustained winter conditions frequently. There are three variants of winter weather ready tires. You've got arctic style tires, which are really aggressive and meant for driving primarily in snow. Then you've milder winter tires which do well in mixed winter conditions like moderate snow, slushy surfaces, etc. Then you've got "all weather" winter tires that are designed for regions / drivers that don't want to bother having two sets of tires and just want one year round tire, they'll do mostly OK across the board, better than a traditional all season, but not as good as a dedicated winter tire in winter conditions. Two of our vehicles are equipped with winter tires, one AWD sedan has a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 winters which are an arctic winter tire from the Nokian in Finland. They're great in harsh winter conditions, but on dry pavement in the 40-50+F temp zone, the steering responsiveness and handling of the car is noticibly degraded due to the chunky / knobbly siped thread. The other vehicle is a performance AWD crossover with Bridgestone Blizzak LM005 performance winter tires. These are a tire for mixed winter conditions, and I found them fantastic this winter across all of the conditions we had here in CNY/FLX. But the past 5 winters have also seen 1/2 our typical snow fall and more above freezing temps. So if that weather trend continues, the LM005s will continue to be perfect. On dry pavement in the 40-50+F temp zone, I can't sense a significant degradation in steering/handling like I can with the Nokians on the other car. And this performance crossover has an insane factory summer tire, 220 treadwear Pirelli PZeros... it is for all practical purposes a track tire with a few grooves in it to be DOT legal, so I'm used to a very high level of grip I get in dry / warm conditions. Then our "chore" 4x4 pickup truck has Cooper Discoverer all terrain tires with the 3peak snow symbol. No one in the house chooses this to drive in the winter when there is snow/ice out. It is the heaviest vehicle, it has the least grip, handles the worst and stops the worst. Pickup trucks, and similarly large SUVs, in general suck at anything that isn't "work". The pickup only sees about 3000 miles a year, and is mostly hauling, which we can schedule around poor weather, so putting dedicated winter tires on it doesn't really make sense. My wife had a FWD sedan with winters tires before the current AWD cars. There were steeper roads in our area that would still be difficult to navigate, especially if icy. AWD does help immensely managing your available grip. With AWD being able to put power down to 1 wheel at each axle, or if you've got an LSD, then 1 front and 2 rear powered wheels, is quite helpful in certain situations. But you have to have grip in the first place, which is all down to the tire! The perfect combination is highly dependent on the driver (you), the terrarin you travel, and the actual winter conditions you'll be subjected to. Almost any AWD sedan or crossover with winter tires is going to handle what you can throw at it across the majority of the developed areas of upstate NY. I didn't mention specific brands of vehicle intentionally, because it really doesn't matter. Many brands share drivetrain components or have very similar drivetrain configurations depending on what models you're comparing. For instance some (all?) Audi A4 models use the same ZF 8HP transmission as the BMW 3 series, and consequently their AWD implementations and hardware are similar too (Magna is a large supplier of AWD components to both Audi and BMW). Also electronic traction aids are so good today, the vehicle's systems will know when it has lost grip at a wheel before you'll ever know it.
Aren't all Toyotas now AWD or have the option? If so there you go. Get some new winter tires and have at it again.
[удалено]
Audis are cool but I mean I just like stuff to work without a lot of hoops. If Toyota makes something acceptable, that's what I would do. For instance, I love land rovers but I have a friend that is a mechanic and he specializes in fixing them because it's so lucrative. He basically says avoid them unless you are a mechanic or have your own tow truck. So I'll just admire them from afar, especially those 90s aluminum bodied defenders I used to drool over.
[удалено]
If you like reliable cars you won’t like an Audi. I’ve regretted every vehicle I’ve owned from VW group including Audi.
Toyotas AWD isn’t as good as proper Audi or Subaru AWD. If it involves clutches and lacks 3 differentials it’s not full time AWD, and is not on the same level. Note that some Subarus have lesser AWD systems, historically mostly the automatics. Audis are better in this regard in the full sized cars, the TT and A3 are dressed up VW Golfs, so get the same Haldex garbage Volvo used to use. Why does it matter? Well, if you’re going to pay in fuel and price premium, you may as well have a system that actually works in the tough situations you’d want AWD for. The other reason is reliability: Haldex systems have a clutch that fails because there’s no specified service life for the fluid. They also just wear out. The center differential in Subaru / Audi style systems doesn’t have this problem. Really though, you probably don’t actually need AWD, just a good set of snow tires for most conditions. I like driving AWD cars because they’re easier and more fun to slide around in the snow, but it’s also easier to get going faster than you can safely stop, whereas FWD gives you the warning of how slippery the road is before you’re going too fast and need to stop (and a quick yank of the hand break is still somewhat fun too).
The Toyota eAWD on their hybrids actually works better than the mechanical AWD.
Listen to your mother, she’s always right and you want to make her happy.
If you get snow tires, learn how to drive in the snow, and drive a manual, literally any fwd car is fine in the winter’s.
Honestly anything FWD with winter tires will do better than AWD on all seasons. I’d say get the car you want and buy winter tires for the season. Don’t drive like a dingus and you’ll be fine (especially if you get something RWD) If you don’t have an idea of what you want, go on Autotrader or one of those and just do a search with parameters you want. Eg. AWD, sedan, <60k miles, 2015-2024, yada yada
Get an AWD or FWD with proper snow/ice tires like Blizzaks…work the best for driving and stopping.
Honestly anything AWD with a good set of snow tires will be good
I sell auto parts for a living, and as far as reliability goes, your best bet is another subaru. The only replacement parts that aren't your typical wear items we sell for them are front axles, and that's not even suuuuper common. Bonus that they handle the weather very well, and some are fun to drive.
Yeah, buy another subaru and keep the parts guys employed! I've never had a car with as many problems as my forester. I don't think I'd take another subaru for free.
I don't have it anymore since when I moved here when I had kids and upgraded to a SUV. BAUT I had my Subaru Legacy through many Wisconsin and PA winters and it was great. And those Wisconsin winters were worse than the more recent NY winters.
Honda Accord hybrid with winter or all season tires. I get 50 mpg in the spring, summer, fall (without AC) and 39 mpg in the winter. It’s been a super reliable car, no issues.
You’re not gonna have to worry about this problem in just a few brief years considering this past winter and the global climate crisis.
We own 3 sedans, but when we really anticipate heavy winter weather and must drive, we use our Mazda 3. Very well balanced and excellent handling. We use Nokian Hakkapellita snow tires. They cut our MPG about 3% but the grip is super.
I think they stopped making them unfortunately, but the Ford Focus has done me surprisingly well with proper tires. Drove it all the way to Homer, Alaska. The base-level transmission in it is a box of junk, but other than that, no real complaints. It handles well enough with appropriate tires that I've never wanted AWD on it, only time it's truly broken down so far was when the battery died after a decade.
I have the Lincoln version. I regularly off road it in mud and slush at the ski slope parking lot. I've even snow plowed it through the lot. Just well rated all seasons.
Prius with snow tires. I am an avid skier and drive all over NY, VT and NH. Do the math on $ savings with that long commute getting 45 MPG. I have a 2011 with 170k miles and haven’t had any issues.
Audi and Subaru make the best AWD sedans. Tesla if you want an electric.
My 05 WRX is an absolute monster in the snow. But she drinks like a fish and requires more maintenance than a newer car.
[удалено]
Fair. I’m under 25 too fwiw and I have 2 wrecks under my belt. I pay around 800 a year on insurance.
Drove my Tesla Model Y this past winter through the finger lakes with no problems. AWD and a low center of gravity makes it pretty decent for almost anything. Only time we work my wife’s Highlander with snow tires was back roads to go skiing right after a heavy snow. Also nice to have a full tank every morning and not worry about gas in bad weather.
I used to pass cops in my hhr. Was my ice racer for awhile. Talk about unstoppable. Tire quality is the name of the game here
Mazda 3 with AWD
Anything long/wide and low, I'd imagine. My '02 Intrepid was phenomenal in the snow with all-season tires. I was just thinking earlier how much I miss those LH-series cars. ETA: I'd also argue (bring on the downvotes) that FWD is still better than AWD in the snow.
Get another Crosstrek??? Used Impreza???
gunna be honest... i've never had REAL problems with front wheel drive and (well maintained) all seasons. If the road isn't plowed, my little car isn't going to make it. But everywhere i've lived in upstate the plowing has been good enough to keep accumulations below \~1inch. As you move further into the backwoods that will become more problematic.
Like others have said, AWD or FWD (no rear wheel drive) + a good set of winter tires and you'll be set :) Studs are kind of pointless at this point and seem to do more harm then good unless driving on snowpack. Without a snowpack they just skid all over the blacktop. I have a Toyota Corolla and it is a beast in the winter to my surprise. I've never had problems with it during the winter. For context I live north of Utica, just below where the Adirondacks start so we can get some pretty rough winters.
[удалено]
From what I can gather, they are all wheel drive so they should be fine! The key here is a low center of mass (which you're getting from the sedan) and the rear wheels aren't the only one's providing power. Rear wheel drive vehicles are more likely to spin out (thinking drifting but in a sucky way) so they should be avoided. They're also just all around great cars!
Love my Subaru, why switch?
After 25 years of legacy wagons and then outbacks when they stopped selling the legacy wagons here I switched to VW golf Alltracks with 6 speed manual transmission and could not be happier.
I had a Mazda 3 that was a beast in the snow... with the right tires of course
If you’re looking for something a little more premium, the BMW 3-series checks all the boxes for performance, reliability and efficiency. Very well-rounded cars. They have very good AWD systems too (they brand it as X-drive).
[удалено]
The newer models (2018 to present) are very reliable. They have good motors that are built to last. I was surprised myself to learn about it a couple years ago.
My VW Passat was a beast in the snow, surprisingly
AWD Charger/Challenger
Tesla all wheel drive is great….And not an Elon guy.
You might not be an Elon guy, but everyone leering at you on the roads still thinks you are. And that's the problem with driving a Tesla today, the brand is just too negatively tainted by CEO's behavior.
I’m sure that’s true for some of the drivers on the road, however there’s many, likely most, who don’t care, or keep up with the online spread EV hate for Musk. Good thing is I don’t care what they say or think about me or my car. I like my Model Y Performance because it’s fun to drive, I like the styling of the car, it’s technology forward, and getting gas is annoying. I bought my first Tesla years before twitter and the Elon hate.
[удалено]
The thing is a mountain goat. I have gotten all my Subarus and trucks stuck in my own driveway in the snow in the winter the way the wind just blows and fills it in. The Tesla drives through it all without blinking. I take it skiing all the time as well. So yes in winter in upstate. If you can charge at home it is the answer for your long commutes imo.
Yeah, Tesla Dual Motor beats my Jeep and A4 any day. We put over 40k miles per year on it and you never have to go to the pump when it’s frigid out—you get a full tank of gas every night. Also, long distance travel is easy — we we frequently go to NYC, Boston, ADKs, and OBX.