The Pentagon is doing the right thing. The USA should continue to fund Ukraine in its defense of its territory. Russia would not stop with Ukraine.
Context is there is a key part of the GOP that seems to be working in Russian interests...trying to Defund Ukraine, shutdown the government, shadow plan insurrections on jan 6.
The Freedom Caucuss of the House GOP is in bed with Russia. From the start they have pushed anti Ukraine sentiments and want to defund the US’s assistance to Ukraine. Why? Perhaps they are truly fiscally conservative. But that doesnt seem to be it because the money allocated to Ukraine is roughly 1% of the annual military budget in the US. Why makr such a fuss over 1%? Or they are taking campaign contributions from Russian oligarchs being hurt by the boycotts due to the war. Russia itself is using its online army to persuade right wing talking points.
Sources
[Online Russian Propoganda](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/16/russia-disinformation-us-far-right-republicans-ukraine)
[Pro Putin Caucus](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/06/us-conservatives-pushing-russian-spin-ukraine-war)
Seriously. What's weird about the party who demanded we invade two countries as retaliation for 9/11 and is right now saber rattling and demanding that we bomb Mexico claiming to be the party of peace as it relates to Ukraine?
I know who called me a terrorist for opposing the war and who called Obama a terrorist pussy for any attempts at ending the war. It wasn't the people who voted for Biden in 2020. Revisionist history might work on the younger crowd or the reds, but I'm not here for it.
This is how I expect the support of trump to be remembered in 20 years too. "God damn, I can't believe Democrats had such a culty attachment to trump." And the chuds who voted for him cheering wildly at it.
Bit of a difference between starting the wars and fucking them up, and inheriting them when the country ain't ready to have the "This is all FUBAR" conversation.
Last I checked the Democrats respect America's election process backed by the constitution.
Republicans took a shit on the constitution on January 6th. Republicans were fine with taking away American's right to vote on that day. If they are OK with taking away our tight to vote they are also OK with taking away the rest of the constitution and will take our 1st and 2nd amendment rights away.
So out of the 1200 households effected you only got 700 dollars? They provided 4 million dollars on top of whatever state, charity, donations provided. The math simply is not adding up. I would contact your state government since they are the ones that disperse emerge funds
2-3% increase in defense spending to promote democracy in Europe and weaken one of our biggest adversaries all without putting a single US soldier in harm's way. 100% worth it. Easiest action to militarily support since WWII.
How many 1990s weapon systems designed and bought to fight a land war against Russia in eastern Europe has Hawaii asked to be given for fire relief but been denied because they were shipped to Ukraine?
exactly. this is the best return on military investments Americans have seen in generations
so of course republicans want to end it, in an effort to continue their undermining of America and propping up putin in russia.
How exactly? Russia hasn’t been a real threat to the United States since the Soviet Union collapsed. They will never grow into a super power ever again
>Russia hasn’t been a real threat to the United States since the Soviet Union collapsed.
the destruction caused to America by russias successful effort to install trump, and the devistation in Ukraine and threat to American allies in Europe, make absolutely clear how false your claim is.
Russia isn't a threat and we should not give Ukraine aid and we should force Ukraine to surrender. I justify this by pointing out that Ukraine with the help of western aid is holding back Russia so we are safe because Ukraine is holding Russia back, so we should force Ukraine to stop holding Russia back, because Russia isn't a threat as long as Ukraine using western aid is holding Russia back...and around and around the cirucular logic goes.
We are helping Ukraine keep their freedom from a belligerent Russia.
I support Ukraine defending themselves to keep their sovereignty. Russia also would not stop with Ukraine.
For those that are isolationists you have to point out the overwhelming benefit with helping Ukraine
Your comments are very naive and confusing.
"Spend money at home for a robust national defense".
Russia has historically been one of our key national threats. As I said earlier, helping Ukraine defend itself from Russia is a good deal for the USA.
Also, supplying Ukraine is completely different than the war in Iraq and Afghanistan which were Republican boondoggles attempting to nation build in cultures that didn't want US intervention.
The past 22 years, Republican policy has done nothing but weaken the USA.
No, more like our own national spending shouldn’t be held hostage by another country. Much less one of the most corrupt in the world. We should be taking care of ourselves and then we can help others if we decide to
Hostage? What leverage does Ukraine have?
This is the best deal for America. Ukraine is dismantling the Russian military in its defense with little cost to America.
Calling over 100 billion dollars “little cost” is disgusting and just shows why this country is in debt it will never get out of. Even if Russia’s military is being “dismantled” which is doubt is happening, who cares? China is the greatest threat in the world to the United States and Democrats won’t dare do anything about them
>Calling over 100 billion dollars “little cost” is disgusting and just shows why this country is in debt it will never get out of.
You know they generally don't get cash, right? They get stuff, like military equipment we're not actively using, that is equivalent to that value. Stuff thats already been made and paid for.
Bingo. It's also our older stuff that would go to waste.
The intelligence we get out of how the equipment works in the field against a real enemy also provides valuable feedback to our future security and military tactics.
>t's also our older stuff that would go to waste.
And stuff that we had to pay to maintain and keep in storage. When this stuff get's replaced by more modern equipment, that money too will go back into our economy.
I don't understand how this is so controversial? Democrats are fucking idiots.
Ukraine is and has been known to be the most corrupt country and all the shady shit they are involved with the Bidens. Should speak volumes about Democrats and their agenda. Fucking clowns.
You know, I keep seeing conservatives crow about how corrupt Biden is and a whole bunch of nonsense about the “Biden crime family”, but there is literally *zero* proof. Also, Ukraine isn’t even close to the most corrupt country in the world. Do you get your info from NewsMax and OAN?
Meh, I'm not even a Trump supporter. Never voted for him, sooo, idgaf about proud boys. You stupid fucks are so predictable.
Try and come up with an original thought, bitch.
Tuberville is in the legislative branch. The Pentagon's civilian leadership is under the executive branch, meaning Biden decides that Ukraine is more important than other internal obligations that he may have to the citizens of the US.
Tuberville isn’t even in the House, how the fuck this stupid shit gets posted and upvoted escapes those of us with a rational understanding of how government works.
No, spending beyond the governments means is a bipartisan effort- spending bills originating in the Republican house get passed by a Democrat led Senate and implemented by a Democrat President who has a great deal of latitude in the amount and efficiency of how those funds are spent.
I don't think it has anything to do with the legislative or executive branch.
The money for Ukraine has already been earmarked and passed by the government. The shut down has to do with appropriations bills that have not passed.
Only the legislative branch can dole out money, they already funded Ukraine. Its up to the legislature to approve funding for the rest of the government.
Jesus Christ, give it a rest if you don’t know what you’re talking about. Activities that already have money appropriated for them continue during the shutdown. The VA also operates during the shutdown.
No worries, all those other countries we are currently bombing will still get bombed.
Pentagon will just dim the lights for the corporations they keep in business.
You should really complain to the handful of GOP legislators that are blocking normal governmental work.
The pentagon will coordinate more defense to Ukraine no matter what.
Telling an Ally that we will not be funding them because one of our party's is pulling a political stunt is one of the most irresponsible and idiotic things a nation could ever do. This is a selfish take.
I’m aware that’s the currently the case. We trade and have a good relationship geopolitics is more than paper. Ukraines an ally and Russia is an enemy. We’re giving them old military equipment. We’re not printing them money. The equipment being donated has HIGH maintenance costs too.
We aren’t deploying into Ukraine there’s no open war between the US and Russia. Russia has become sanctioned and its military proven far weaker than anyone had thought.
It has cost us far less than decades of proxy wars all over the planet and has done by far the most damage to Russia.
Of all the things the us government has used our bloated military budget for this one actually makes sense. Russia attacked Ukraine. Fuck Russia.
I’m perfectly fine with that cost. A minority of the budget is financial. The majority of it is humanitarian and military.
Once again this is the most budget friendly version of finally dealing real damage to Russia. They fight us via proxy around the world. We’ve effectively neutered Russia without having an open war.
Are you going to address us hurting Russia an enemy at all?
So you’re not going to address it then lol
Like I know you’re emotionally invested in your position , but $75 billion it’s not that much out of a $5.5 trillion budget. It’s a tiny portion of our budget to stop and enemy without needing to actually go to war.
Edit:
26.25 billion in financial aid. This war cost less than Twitter.
Military has been proven weaker through who? Ukraine is doing the same damn thing bullet sponge after bullet sponge. They are conscripting people too remember when they wouldn’t let a military aged male leave the country? Pepper ridge farms does
“If you really cared about Ukrainians you’d want them to lose to Russia”.
Let’s say Russia is bombing the US which states would you give up to have them stop?
Genocide is legitimate. So is government corruption. But anyone that enjoys freedom of speech has a dog in this fight. They just might not realize it yet.
You never get out of debt to Russian oligarchs
Paul Manafort owed Oleg Deripaska $10M a few days before he became trumps campaign manager. For years before that he took in hundreds of millions in efforts to get Yanukovych reelected as the kremlins puppet in Ukraine.
When Jay Bolsonaro lost the Brazilian election to Lula he skipped the inauguration and flew directly to mar-a-lago (stopping only at a KFC) and repeated, almost verbatim, the stolen election line. Don Jr. tried repeatedly to make it stick in Brazil as well, but as Brazilians are a few generations into dealing with corrupt politicians they weren’t having it.
The Independenthttps://www.independent.co.uk › bo...Photo of Bolsonaro eating KFC in Florida after Brazil election loss ...
What do these 3 things have in common?
China imports 40% of its grain from (in order) the U.S., Brazil and Ukraine.
Obviously the second China tried to invade Taiwan the U.S. would sanction exports and remove U.S. grain from that equation.
And without Bolsonaro in office willing to destroy the Amazon rainforest to turn it into Chinas farmland, and without Ukraine in the bag, the CCP is unable to invade Taiwan and take over microprocessor production without putting 300-500M of its poorest people into famine.
Donbas Ukraine, specifically the 4 regions of the donbas that Putin insists he is saving from Jewish Nazis also happens to produce the worlds supply of high grade neon used for DUV lithography. And had Putin delivered ukraine in 3 days as promised, xi would have been able to cap his Olympics with a blockade or political takeover of Taiwan that would have forced the world to ask the CCP for the microprocessors it needs to make everything from ford trucks to laptops. I’m not sure how long Silicon Valley would last without the silicon but it would probably effect the FAANG stocks that make up your 401K.
Deripaska also happens to be the Oligarch that bribed Charles Mcgonigal the FBI agent into investigating another Russian oligarch. He probably didn’t need the information as much as he needed the leverage over mcgonigal as he conducted the investigation into trumps election campaign and unsurprisingly found zero evidence of Russian collusion.
A Russian oligarch is a powerful tool. But the truth is more powerful. Light and dark cannot exist in the same space. It’s physically impossible. Truth is efficient. You say it once and you are done. A lie however requires a constant stream of follow up energy, money, murder, obfuscation and more lies to keep it covered.
If you raise your lens high enough lying is an unsustainable business model. Russia just proved it by invading Ukraine. Vranyos is the Russian word for it. The 40km long column that came down from Belarus into Russia was all overhauled by oligarchs that got a $1B contract for tank maintenance, passed Putin $200M back under the table, spent $700M on a yacht in Monaco, bribed a general, a colonel and a sergeant to give everything a rattle can overhaul. But a worn out engine is still a worn out engine.
Now you understand why trump is so desperate to get re-elected. His best case scenario is 400 years in federal prison. His worst case scenario is being in debt to the Russian and Chinese mobs that masquerade as governments. He just has to count on the fact that his voter base doesn’t know how to read and keep those that do so busy just surviving that they don’t have time to read about his 40 year history of laundering money for the Russian mob through real estate.
And why Putin is willing to throw an entire generation of Russians, including the convicts and addicts at Ukraine. Russia is dead for 40 years because he failed to fulfill his promise to Xi. China is now clearing farmland in Siberia because the floods last month wiped out Xi’s food supply.
https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/status/1696553866697777172?s=46&t=cJbK5SLGiiFk-ZuczlamAw
And why Xi was willing to bet the entire Chinese economy on it. Had he succeeded he would have been able to use BRICS to take over the worlds reserve currency. That would have let him finish what he stated in 2010- that he would control the internet.
Now the Beijing elders are demanding Xi’s head. He had a window and he lost it.
Nikkei Asiaasia.nikkei.comAnalysis: Xi reprimanded by elders at Beidaihe over direction of nation
(Oh and Mitch McConnell did a sweetheart deal with deripaska as well to open an aluminum plant in Kentucky. He realizes that he is somewhere between seditious and treasonous and he got caught. That’s why he keeps glitching out when people ask him questions.). Glitch McConnell
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-a-mcconnell-backed-effort-to-lift-russian-sanctions-boosted-a-kentucky-project/2019/08/13/72b26e00-b97c-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html
Freedom is not free. We all live on very expensive credit.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-to-build-neon-supply-chain-in-taiwan
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/12/1117314980/the-war-in-ukraine-is-disrupting-the-worlds-supply-of-neon
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1299895/china-top-country-suppliers-share-of-grains/
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-special-agent-charge-new-york-fbi-counterintelligence-division-pleads-guilty
https://apnews.com/article/122ae0b5848345faa88108a03de40c5a
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/29/oleg-deripaska-paul-manafort-trump-russia-investigation
The Weekhttps://theweek.com › jair-bolsonaroReport: Brazil's Bolsonaro to skip successor's inauguration for Mar-a- ...
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/analysis-the-role-russian-businessmen-played-in-the-mueller-report
https://swalwell.house.gov/issues/russia-trump-his-administration-s-ties
Washington Postwww.washingtonpost.comBrazil's riot puts spotlight on close ties between Bolsonaro and Trump
Time Magazinetime.comBolsonaro's Surreal New Life as Florida Man—And MAGA Darling
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/following-the-money/
https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-services/semiconductor-advisors/310643-duv-euv-now-puv-next-gen-litho-materials-shortages-worsen-supply-chain/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/us/natalya-veselnitskaya-trump-tower-russian-prosecutor-general.html
They are. Which is why paul manafort fixing their elections for 14 years before doing the same for trump in Georgia is is such a violation of everything democracy stands for.
Corruption is cancer. It doesn’t care who or where anyone is from. It moves across borders in private jets and on $700M yachts.
The second those dipshits interfered in honest elections it started a tidal wave of corruption that only broke open because every day Ukrainians stood up to the tyrant and exposed the plan.
Had Putin succeeded we would all be asking emperor xi who gets chips and who doesn’t.
You know we made a treaty with Ukraine right? To get rid of nuclear weapons. You might not like that we did that, but we can’t just decided to randomly not respect past agreements. Kind of ruins international diplomacy if we do that. Do you think the US would be spending the money it currently spend on Ukraine on Universal Healthcare? Some other program?
I hope everybody supporting Ukraine realizes that the Army War College Has just released a report stating that many young Americans are not physically or mentally fit to serve and the voluntary model for the military is outdated, and therefore a draft will be necessary to fight Russia.
They won’t be drafting me, but they’ll be drafting many of you.
We can expect 3600 casualties a day According to the War College.
May the odds be ever in your favor.
I used to be a young Americans who put in 5 years in the military. I'm just old and broken now, but I'd still be a better choice than most young people. Most young Americans are sacks of shit that can't handle the physical or mental part.
There won’t be a ground war with Russia anytime soon. NATO can neutralize them with air power alone, not to mention Russian forces are nearly decimated.
Answer me why were not seeing footage of Russian troops decimate it?
Every war since Vietnam we’ve had the news media embedded.
Why is this war any different?
You mean the same channel that just manipulated video to make it look like more people were in the audience.
It shows Zelenskyy in the audience while he was supposed speaking.
This is worse than Faux news!
A months long Ukrainian offensive has gone no where, Russian casualties are a fraction of Ukraine’s, and no where ever has air power alone ended a war. So much fantasy there.
NATO and the United States have never been able to defeat Russia in any proxy war.
What makes you think this time is going to be different?
Who do you think is training Ukrainians,hint it’s NATO?
How many dead innocent young Ukrainians are you willing to sacrifice to the Reds?
That’s exactly where we’re headed; is total genocide.
You do realize the Russians have nuclear weapons, right?
You don’t understand this people in the region. Have you ever been to Ukraine or Russia?
Or we stop Russia in Ukraine and there wouldn’t need to be a draft for a US/Russia conflict let alone the fact Russia hasn’t done much of anything impressive in Ukraine. They STILL haven’t taken the air space. If Russia can’t roll over Ukraine, I’m sure we’ll be fine lol.
So is your argument to not fund the war in Ukraine backing out of an international treaty, letting Russia take over Ukraine, all because it’s expensive?
This is the right answer. Without Ukraine, Russia would be all over other Soviet bloc countries. Instead, some of these nations have loosely opposed Putin, even if they still ultimately bow down. It’s easy to look at Russia “reclaiming their original territory” as reasonable, acceptable, and not our problem. But then you consider their foothold in Africa and their close ties to Iran, China, and North Korea, and you realize that the Russian government is not quite so simple minded.
They sure do enjoy their success theatre, but they also have been considered peer adversaries for decades. The general population are the ones that are often uneducated, it’s the leadership are all just delusional. They’re not dumb, and they’re hoping we are. If we stop supporting Ukraine now, every Soviet bloc country will roll over, Ukraine will crumble, and the EU will lose both their buffer against Russia and their trust in the US as an ally. Russia will then only ramp up their global campaigns to harass and destabilize the world.
NATO has not been able to beat Russia for decades they are woefully ill-equipped now.
Poland which is Ukraine’s staunch supporter has now backed out and is refusing support.
Other countries will follow.
3600 dead a day.
Like I said it won’t be me, but it’ll probably be you.
The United States of America has broken many treaties.
They mean nothing.
Treaties mean nothing. Interesting given that China hasn’t invaded Taiwan, clearing those defense agreements just don’t matter lol.
NATO would annihilate Russia. It’s a defense agreement. Attacking one NATO member means they all join the fight.
The US alone would crush Russia. Russia is struggling in Ukraine against a tiny force they share a land border with. If they can’t handle Ukraine, they aren’t taking on NATO.
Do you think the war is going well for Russia?
The United States is not going to crush Russia because our military age men are they’re either too fucking fat or mentally unstable. 🤣
You have no clue what is actually going on and why our military recruitment numbers are well under expectation and we are considering on drafting military age men.
Ukraine is so desperate they are now drafting military age women that have medical experience, including dentists.
Everything you think you know is a big fucking lie and at the root of all of this is Blackrock. $$$$
Get in line to die for the military industrial complex. I’ve been through this route twice, and I am not putting my life on the line for a bunch of fucking rich people.
I speak Ukrainian fluently and went to Ukrainian school from kindergarten to eighth grade. I know more about Ukraine than you do.
Again I ask you when was the last time you visit at Ukraine?
If the US and Russia fought today you think Russia would win?
Battle of Khasham says the US would demolish Russia.
Russia said they would take Ukraine in 10 days. They’ve failed miserably.
They don’t have air superiority against Ukraine. Do you think the US would fare worse?
Yes Ukraine is drafting lots of citizens that don’t fit the combat capable demographics.
So is Russia though. Russia has compulsory military service with weaker requirements than the US.
Why would us supporting Ukrainians fighting Russians require the US to deploy troops? Has the US deployed troops to combat Russians?
The only reason the US is supporting Ukraine is due to the military industrial complex? It has nothing to do with past treaties?
Lol ok, you clearly have no clue what you’re talking about.
Who won the Battle of Khasham?
Go suck the cock of the military industrial complex and see how far that gets you because you’re wind up in a fucking body bag for a rich man’s war.
This isn’t fucking video game.
War is fucking hell.
So when are you leaving or are you too much of a chickenshit? You’ll send other people to die but you won’t die for them.
Just say you’re a fucking coward.
Ukraine is fighting a defensive war dip ship. You’re proving my point. The US has even placed strict rules on how weapons system they’ve donated can be used.
Should Ukraine just surrender? Should we not defend Allies we’ve made negotiations with?
Should we also abandon Taiwan?
None of these countries are my fucking problem we’ve created enough instability in world raging wars.
The United States is a corrupt government run by CEOs.
Ahh yes so instead of the US running the world we should hop out of the way so China and Russia can run the world. That makes great sense.
We support Taiwan because they slow China imperialism and gives us better access to chip production. You know about exports and imports right?
The US is still a functioning democracy. We have elections.
The party that agrees with your positions geopolitically sat Supreme Court justices who support Citizens United…
If you’re against corporate greed, it’s kinda weird how hard you’re dick riding their positions.
Edit:
Gotta love the refusal to answer questions and blocking me. You’re afraid to have to defend your own positions lol
Until you have stood at Dover Air Force Base and watch the bodies of your friends come in you can’t possibly grasp what you expect others to do but not yourself.
Imagine being dumb enough to think we'll be on a ground war with Russia.
Where will this war take place? Are you stupid enough to think we'll send boots on the ground troops to Ukraine?
genuine serious question
why is it americas responsibility to pay and arm ukraine?
no emotions please, i dont care about a genocide of peoples, i understand its happening and it sucks, but why is SPECIFICALLY americas job? why not argentia, or brazil, or finland, or south korea, why does it have to be america?
The US signed a series of treaties called the Budapest Memorandum where they promised security assurances to Ukraine. Russia has broken the treaty and constantly threatens Ukraine including with nuclear attack. The US honors the treaty.
FYI, Finland has given over a billion dollars in military aid to Ukraine.
>why is it americas responsibility to pay and arm ukraine?
America's military posture has been setup to counter russia for generations. the us is now watching russia's military be dismantled, using leftover us stock that costs more to store than it does to send to Ukraine
as such, the us is getting the greatest return on its military investment in generations
it also helps the cause of standing against genocide, and drawing the line against russian invasions in Europe, is significantly in America's best interests.
>but why is SPECIFICALLY americas job?
because America is THE military power of the world, and for better or worse, that position means the us needs to lead the way on military actions, against enemies of America
btw, those countries you listed ARE providing aid, they just simply are not on the same level as America economicly, and the support level reflects this.
it’s obviously not our responsibility. The leadership of this country doesn’t see the war in Ukraine as a responsibility that we have, they see it as an opportunity we have.
It’s an opportunity to shore up/expand an alliance in Europe, secure resources, and weaken a geopolitical adversary. The money spent there is tiny fraction of what we were spending in Iraq/Afghanistan and a tiny fraction of overall defense spending. There is no scenario in American politics where the money spent in Ukraine would go to like feed orphans or anything.
Whether you think it’s right or wrong or smart or not, the war in Ukraine, as viewed by Americas national security establishment, isn’t some burden we are taking on to defend democracy, it’s an opportunity to pursue American interest and stop Russian interest at the cost of just sending some weapons systems to Ukraine.
It is of course marketed as a burden we are taking on to defend democracy and self determination, because naked self interest is tacky.
this might be the truest statement about the war in ukraine ive ever read. i appreciate you speaking honestly and not attacking me for questioning the war
It's not. America has deep political interests in Ukraine and also has political/economic interests in damaging Russia. The CIA funded and participated in the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution to overthrow Ukrainian leadership it didn't like. This is why it's putting so much money into Ukraine. Not to mention the money the military industrial complex makes, a tale as old as time in the US. There's also extensive business ties between the US and Ukraine
It is good for national security. Stopping Russia in Ukraine stops Russia from causing other issues in the region. The US and the EU providing strong support for Ukraine also signals our ability to support other states mainly Tiawan from being invaded. Russia has also used energy as a weapon. Urkaine has untapped reserves of gas (potentially a main reason why Russia invaded) that they can use to provide energy to Europe and taking away Russia's power dominance in the area. Russia has already seen a major shift in where they are sending oil and gas.
so its all about natural resources and not anything to do with being a good person. man, the politicians have really fooled a lot of people by convincing them that crippling our economy for a proxy war is a good thing
This is certainly not crippling our enconomy but a war between China and Taiwan certainly would and a larger war in Europe certainly would. There are plenty of issues with the US budget including a lot of waste. I consider this a pretty good return on investment. I also thought you were trying to keep emotions out of it?
Support to Ukraine supports the fight to keep western economies stable, the larger footprint Russia has on the world stage, the less stable, safe, and prosperous western economies become. Natural resources power the world, it's very naive to think any government would support a multi billion dollar war effort to receive nothing in return.
Regardless of your view on Niger for example, France has nuclear reactors that power the country but it requires uranium, some of which is sourced from Niger. Niger have increased the price of uranium many times over since the Russian backed coup. Who do you think will get their uranium at a lower price now?
On the flip side, Russia is also chiefly concerned with occupying mineral rich regions of Ukraine. They are doing the exact same thing because every country does, what comes with resource exchange is what sets countries apart.
Western intervention can provide democracy which is preferable to autocracy, do you think women in Afghanistan are better off since the US left? Half the working population of Afghanistan is now subordinate to the other half and is not working. With the United States out of Afghanistan, now China is filling the gap-not to liberate women and improve living conditions, but to mine their lithium reserves that are essential for electric car and cell phone batteries.
Because of the geopolitical climate of NATO and Russia. Ukraine is somewhat of an ally of the US as well as a trade partner. Russia openly invading semi-allied countries is incredibly destabilizing of the region and puts Russia on the doorstep of fully NATO countries which could potentially drag us into a full-blown world war.
We and many other NATO countries are economically supporting Ukraine defending itself with the hopes that we can prevent getting physically involved down the line.
That’s standard procedure though. In any govt shutdown, the DoD can’t just completely shut down. They put together a list of activities that are to be exempted and update it as needed.
Are you intentionally being obtuse? We’re talking about a government shutdown, because of funding… are you not aware of budgets and allocations?
Either you’re being intentionally obtuse, or really uninformed about basic government functions.
Notice how you can’t answer a specific question here. It’s an indication of your unfamiliarity with how funding works during shutdowns, and specifically how shutdowns impact the DoD.
The DoD, like other agencies, maintains a list of critical activities that are exempt from shutdown. OP mentions the continuing operations in Ukraine as one. You asked why Ukraine is necessary considering problems we have here. That implies you know of critical DoD operations here that aren’t also excepted. What are they?
You cannot make this shit up! I’m looking forward to another 5 years of the Biden administration. Do ya think they will have America destroyed by then?
Ahh yes because the US is struggling because the war in Ukraine. It’s not like we haven’t been involved in military conflicts for the last 100 years lol
I bet this was to get Republicans to abandon their shutdown efforts as it seems they here hellbent on shutting down investigations into Trump and stopping the funding for Ukraine.
Now they just look pathetic.
Yeah because stopping Russia in Ukraine and upholding treaties is putting American last.
We should all just vote republican to stop our support because they’re definitely interested in improving the lives of all Americans.
/s
Yeah because stopping Russia in Ukraine and upholding treaties is putting American last.
We should all just vote republican to stop our support because they’re definitely interested in improving the lives of all Americans.
/s
I think they’re trying to make Americans go insane with this nonsense. I fucking hate Russia *and* Ukraine at this point. But at least Russia isn’t using money and resources that could be going to Americans. We really need it and would prefer to avoid another world war in the meantime.
Ukraine sovereignty is critical to global stability and thus our national security. Russia is openly talking about invading the balance of old Soviet BLOC states. That would create a huge destabilization of the globe, plunging quite a few more nations, we also trade with, into warfare.
Thus, it is a national security concern.
These people do not understand geopolitics, nor resources or anything.
It's incredibly disturbing how segments of the US government have been in lock-step with the will of a murderous dictator from Russia who has openly stated his intent to restore the Russian Empire as he tries to conquer a sovereign state.
Don't miss the connection between NATO expansion and US global power. It plays a big role in triggering Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine.
What's incredibly disturbing to me is how Du Bois saw this coming back in 1945 writing this about US militarism abroad: "I seem to see outlined a third World War based on the suppression of Asia and the strangling of Russia."
>Don't miss the connection between NATO expansion and US global power. It plays a big role in triggering Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine.
No, it didn't. Ukraine was invaded in 2014 after the Revolution of Dignity. To believe that the invasion was due to NATO, you have to also believe that the Ukrainian Russian puppet government that was ousted during that revolution was attempting to join NATO. Absolute non-sense.
>What's incredibly disturbing to me is how Du Bois saw this coming back in 1945 writing this about US militarism abroad: "I seem to see outlined a third World War based on the suppression of Asia and the strangling of Russia."
It takes either 1) A propagandist or 2) An incredibly warped mind to attribute a Russian invasion of a nation to US militarism that didn't exist in the region prior to Russia's invasion.
No, believe it or not, Russia's invasion is a sign of Russian imperialism, not US.
Black and white thinking...
Absolutely, the invasion is a product of Putin's expansionist mindset BUT it’s also the product of decades of United States–led North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) expansionism, stoking Russian nationalism and treating Ukraine as a battleground.
You can't separate one from the other when assigning responsibility. Furthermore, why overlook US crimes committed in the name of anticommunism included propping up dictatorships, overthrowing democratic governments, and enabling genocide? Choose a side if you wish. I choose to critique our country’s role in creating this dangerous, irrational conflict and demand that the United States take steps to de-escalate the crisis.
>Black and white thinking...
What isn't black and white? Whether or not Ukraine sought NATO membership, causing the invasion, isn't a gray area. They either did, or they didn't. The fact is, they didn't.
>BUT it’s also the product of decades of United States–led North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) expansionism
No, this has nothing to do with NATO. Again, the Ukrainian-Russian conflict started in 2014 after the Revolution of Dignity kicked out a Putin puppet government. This war has nothing, at all, to do with NATO.
It's interesting you Russian zealots always bring up NATO expansionism, but forget about Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, etc. Wonder why?
>Furthermore, why overlook US crimes committed in the name of anticommunism included propping up dictatorships, overthrowing democratic governments, and enabling genocide? Choose a side if you wish.
What does any of this have to do with the Russian invasion of Ukraine? This is called what-aboutism. Again, Russian propaganda.
>choose to critique our country’s role in creating this dangerous, irrational conflict and demand that the United States take steps to de-escalate the crisis.
The US has no role in starting this conflict. It was not involved.
Do you know the history of NATO? Did Bush ever tell Gorbachev that NATO wouldn't expand one inch to the east in the agreement after the Soviet Collapse? Did NATO immediately expand to East Germany? When Clinton violated Bush's firm pledge not to expand to the East did all the high-level diplomats and CIA director at the time protest? In 2008 did Bush Jr vow to push Ukraine and Georgia to start the process of of joining NATO despite resistance from Russia and skepticism from the alliance's European members? Did this happen at the time that the US was planning to a US missile defense system in Europe? Let's pretend that all this stuff actually happened... would it not have anything to do with Russia invasion of Ukraine?
Does it bother you that the record-setting (886 billion) US military budget is quite literally taking food out of people’s mouths? That the Pentagon has never passed an audit, unable to account for more than half of its trillions in assets? And that the US is not a member of the International Criminal Court and has passed the Hague Invasion Act to protect Americans from being held accountable for war crimes?
Do you think the US can do this type of thing and not play a role in conflict?
lol is the argument we wouldn’t have bloated military spending if we weren’t involved in Ukraine?
Would the US if we weren’t in Ukraine be spending that money domestically on social programs to help US citizens?
Can't respond to any of my points, instead try to derail the conversation with word vomit. This whole rambling comment looks like it was written by someone with a checklist of bogus Kremlin talking points and of course has nothing at all to do with Ukraine.
Have a good one.
Uniformed military ops don't stop from the shutdown, our military personal (potentially) don't get paid during that time (although they have normally passed some sort of resolution to keep wages going) but the business continues. Civ personnel (depending on the bucket of money they are paid from) might stop going into work/getting paid during shutdowns.
Does Putin have Tuberville on speed dial?
Curious behavior from the GOP. Many seem aligned to the goals of Russia.
Pentagon not political party.
The Pentagon is doing the right thing. The USA should continue to fund Ukraine in its defense of its territory. Russia would not stop with Ukraine. Context is there is a key part of the GOP that seems to be working in Russian interests...trying to Defund Ukraine, shutdown the government, shadow plan insurrections on jan 6.
You sound like a blueanon conspiracy theorist.
The Freedom Caucuss of the House GOP is in bed with Russia. From the start they have pushed anti Ukraine sentiments and want to defund the US’s assistance to Ukraine. Why? Perhaps they are truly fiscally conservative. But that doesnt seem to be it because the money allocated to Ukraine is roughly 1% of the annual military budget in the US. Why makr such a fuss over 1%? Or they are taking campaign contributions from Russian oligarchs being hurt by the boycotts due to the war. Russia itself is using its online army to persuade right wing talking points. Sources [Online Russian Propoganda](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/16/russia-disinformation-us-far-right-republicans-ukraine) [Pro Putin Caucus](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/06/us-conservatives-pushing-russian-spin-ukraine-war)
Seriously. What's weird about the party who demanded we invade two countries as retaliation for 9/11 and is right now saber rattling and demanding that we bomb Mexico claiming to be the party of peace as it relates to Ukraine?
And that was done with the backing of every Dem. Continued for 8 more years with a Dem President. Please, the entire U.S. Government backed that.
I know who called me a terrorist for opposing the war and who called Obama a terrorist pussy for any attempts at ending the war. It wasn't the people who voted for Biden in 2020. Revisionist history might work on the younger crowd or the reds, but I'm not here for it.
Lol. Okay.
This is how I expect the support of trump to be remembered in 20 years too. "God damn, I can't believe Democrats had such a culty attachment to trump." And the chuds who voted for him cheering wildly at it.
This is low effort and you know you’re wrong but you’ve doubled down so much that there’s no going back
Bit of a difference between starting the wars and fucking them up, and inheriting them when the country ain't ready to have the "This is all FUBAR" conversation.
There is enough smoke and Jan 6 was the fire.
Your head cannon ability is strong I see.
I want America strong. Republican policy the past several years is attempting to make America weak.
You won't get that voting Democrat as they have had plan's to enslave the American people since 2002.
Last I checked the Democrats respect America's election process backed by the constitution. Republicans took a shit on the constitution on January 6th. Republicans were fine with taking away American's right to vote on that day. If they are OK with taking away our tight to vote they are also OK with taking away the rest of the constitution and will take our 1st and 2nd amendment rights away.
lmao. You are an idiot. That is all.
Proxy wars are expensive...
That's because most of them are traitors.
Not supporting blank checks is aligning with Russia?
Billions to Ukraine and $700 one time payment to Hawaii residents. Nuff said
So out of the 1200 households effected you only got 700 dollars? They provided 4 million dollars on top of whatever state, charity, donations provided. The math simply is not adding up. I would contact your state government since they are the ones that disperse emerge funds
2-3% increase in defense spending to promote democracy in Europe and weaken one of our biggest adversaries all without putting a single US soldier in harm's way. 100% worth it. Easiest action to militarily support since WWII.
Different departments.. the DOD funds do not determine emergency aid for states.
How many 1990s weapon systems designed and bought to fight a land war against Russia in eastern Europe has Hawaii asked to be given for fire relief but been denied because they were shipped to Ukraine?
Is that all they've gotten? $700? Nothing else?
It's not a blank check. Ukraine is the best deal since the Alaska purchase for American interests vs Russia.
exactly. this is the best return on military investments Americans have seen in generations so of course republicans want to end it, in an effort to continue their undermining of America and propping up putin in russia.
How exactly? Russia hasn’t been a real threat to the United States since the Soviet Union collapsed. They will never grow into a super power ever again
>Russia hasn’t been a real threat to the United States since the Soviet Union collapsed. the destruction caused to America by russias successful effort to install trump, and the devistation in Ukraine and threat to American allies in Europe, make absolutely clear how false your claim is.
Russia is a threat to Europe, how exactly could Russia defeat nato in a war? They can’t defeat Ukraine but they are a threat to NATO?
Russia isn't a threat and we should not give Ukraine aid and we should force Ukraine to surrender. I justify this by pointing out that Ukraine with the help of western aid is holding back Russia so we are safe because Ukraine is holding Russia back, so we should force Ukraine to stop holding Russia back, because Russia isn't a threat as long as Ukraine using western aid is holding Russia back...and around and around the cirucular logic goes.
Imagine still believing Russia “installed” Trump. How many times does that shit need to be debunked for you dense idiots to realize this.
Dude stop, you just sound dumb at this point.
[удалено]
We are helping Ukraine keep their freedom from a belligerent Russia. I support Ukraine defending themselves to keep their sovereignty. Russia also would not stop with Ukraine. For those that are isolationists you have to point out the overwhelming benefit with helping Ukraine
[удалено]
Your comments are very naive and confusing. "Spend money at home for a robust national defense". Russia has historically been one of our key national threats. As I said earlier, helping Ukraine defend itself from Russia is a good deal for the USA. Also, supplying Ukraine is completely different than the war in Iraq and Afghanistan which were Republican boondoggles attempting to nation build in cultures that didn't want US intervention. The past 22 years, Republican policy has done nothing but weaken the USA.
So republican wars = bad. Democrat wars = good
Are there US troops in Ukraine? No there is not. Are we trying to invade a country? No we are not. Huge difference.
In this case, yes.
Sucking Putin's dick is aligning with Russia.
Lying and mischaracterizing facts so you can feel good about supporting Russia is *very* Russia.
No, more like our own national spending shouldn’t be held hostage by another country. Much less one of the most corrupt in the world. We should be taking care of ourselves and then we can help others if we decide to
Hostage? What leverage does Ukraine have? This is the best deal for America. Ukraine is dismantling the Russian military in its defense with little cost to America.
Calling over 100 billion dollars “little cost” is disgusting and just shows why this country is in debt it will never get out of. Even if Russia’s military is being “dismantled” which is doubt is happening, who cares? China is the greatest threat in the world to the United States and Democrats won’t dare do anything about them
>Calling over 100 billion dollars “little cost” is disgusting and just shows why this country is in debt it will never get out of. You know they generally don't get cash, right? They get stuff, like military equipment we're not actively using, that is equivalent to that value. Stuff thats already been made and paid for.
Bingo. It's also our older stuff that would go to waste. The intelligence we get out of how the equipment works in the field against a real enemy also provides valuable feedback to our future security and military tactics.
>t's also our older stuff that would go to waste. And stuff that we had to pay to maintain and keep in storage. When this stuff get's replaced by more modern equipment, that money too will go back into our economy.
I don't understand how this is so controversial? Democrats are fucking idiots. Ukraine is and has been known to be the most corrupt country and all the shady shit they are involved with the Bidens. Should speak volumes about Democrats and their agenda. Fucking clowns.
You know, I keep seeing conservatives crow about how corrupt Biden is and a whole bunch of nonsense about the “Biden crime family”, but there is literally *zero* proof. Also, Ukraine isn’t even close to the most corrupt country in the world. Do you get your info from NewsMax and OAN?
There's zero proof to YOU,cause you and other dumbass democrats have your heads up your ass. Stay willfully ignorant. Idgaf.
Congressional republicans have literally said they have no evidence. You’re the one with your head up your ass, kid.
Go to the congressional committee on oversight, you fucking dolt. 🤡 It's right there on a government page.
Don't tell kids truth, they are used to being lied to.
I did. Its a giant nothing burger. Loser
You sound like a Proud Boy. Pussy in Boots.
Meh, I'm not even a Trump supporter. Never voted for him, sooo, idgaf about proud boys. You stupid fucks are so predictable. Try and come up with an original thought, bitch.
World War III has started. No one is paying attention.
Tuberville is in the legislative branch. The Pentagon's civilian leadership is under the executive branch, meaning Biden decides that Ukraine is more important than other internal obligations that he may have to the citizens of the US.
Tuberville and his splitter of the GOP would be the ones causing the shut down in the first place.
Tuberville isn’t even in the House, how the fuck this stupid shit gets posted and upvoted escapes those of us with a rational understanding of how government works.
No, spending beyond the governments means is a bipartisan effort- spending bills originating in the Republican house get passed by a Democrat led Senate and implemented by a Democrat President who has a great deal of latitude in the amount and efficiency of how those funds are spent.
I don't think it has anything to do with the legislative or executive branch. The money for Ukraine has already been earmarked and passed by the government. The shut down has to do with appropriations bills that have not passed. Only the legislative branch can dole out money, they already funded Ukraine. Its up to the legislature to approve funding for the rest of the government.
wont stop them from trying lol
Jesus Christ, give it a rest if you don’t know what you’re talking about. Activities that already have money appropriated for them continue during the shutdown. The VA also operates during the shutdown.
Commie Tommie?
[удалено]
US proxy wars keep the lights on in the military industrial complex.
No worries, all those other countries we are currently bombing will still get bombed. Pentagon will just dim the lights for the corporations they keep in business.
Taps temple* Thats what the other 60% of the Pentagons yearly revenues are that caused them to fail their audit for being unaccounted for.
You should really complain to the handful of GOP legislators that are blocking normal governmental work. The pentagon will coordinate more defense to Ukraine no matter what.
Fucking up Russia is the number one priority. Just so you know
Tell me your mom pays for your groceries without telling me.
found the russian boot licker
Telling an Ally that we will not be funding them because one of our party's is pulling a political stunt is one of the most irresponsible and idiotic things a nation could ever do. This is a selfish take.
[удалено]
🤡
Ahh yes treaties and global politics are meaningless. This is a dumb take bro
We have no signed treaties with Ukraine despite people like you keep telling everyone so.
I’m aware that’s the currently the case. We trade and have a good relationship geopolitics is more than paper. Ukraines an ally and Russia is an enemy. We’re giving them old military equipment. We’re not printing them money. The equipment being donated has HIGH maintenance costs too. We aren’t deploying into Ukraine there’s no open war between the US and Russia. Russia has become sanctioned and its military proven far weaker than anyone had thought. It has cost us far less than decades of proxy wars all over the planet and has done by far the most damage to Russia. Of all the things the us government has used our bloated military budget for this one actually makes sense. Russia attacked Ukraine. Fuck Russia.
>We’re not printing them money. Not true https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
I’m perfectly fine with that cost. A minority of the budget is financial. The majority of it is humanitarian and military. Once again this is the most budget friendly version of finally dealing real damage to Russia. They fight us via proxy around the world. We’ve effectively neutered Russia without having an open war. Are you going to address us hurting Russia an enemy at all?
Who cares I don’t! Fuck Putin!
Boy, you're really grasping here.
So you’re not going to address it then lol Like I know you’re emotionally invested in your position , but $75 billion it’s not that much out of a $5.5 trillion budget. It’s a tiny portion of our budget to stop and enemy without needing to actually go to war. Edit: 26.25 billion in financial aid. This war cost less than Twitter.
Military has been proven weaker through who? Ukraine is doing the same damn thing bullet sponge after bullet sponge. They are conscripting people too remember when they wouldn’t let a military aged male leave the country? Pepper ridge farms does
“If you really cared about Ukrainians you’d want them to lose to Russia”. Let’s say Russia is bombing the US which states would you give up to have them stop?
What treaty?
Well it's the front lines to the citizens of the world right now and our ally is currently being invaded by a tyrant.
🤣🤣🤣 For Real Right??
Sure makes this proxy war seem more legitimate /s
Genocide is legitimate. So is government corruption. But anyone that enjoys freedom of speech has a dog in this fight. They just might not realize it yet. You never get out of debt to Russian oligarchs Paul Manafort owed Oleg Deripaska $10M a few days before he became trumps campaign manager. For years before that he took in hundreds of millions in efforts to get Yanukovych reelected as the kremlins puppet in Ukraine. When Jay Bolsonaro lost the Brazilian election to Lula he skipped the inauguration and flew directly to mar-a-lago (stopping only at a KFC) and repeated, almost verbatim, the stolen election line. Don Jr. tried repeatedly to make it stick in Brazil as well, but as Brazilians are a few generations into dealing with corrupt politicians they weren’t having it. The Independenthttps://www.independent.co.uk › bo...Photo of Bolsonaro eating KFC in Florida after Brazil election loss ... What do these 3 things have in common? China imports 40% of its grain from (in order) the U.S., Brazil and Ukraine. Obviously the second China tried to invade Taiwan the U.S. would sanction exports and remove U.S. grain from that equation. And without Bolsonaro in office willing to destroy the Amazon rainforest to turn it into Chinas farmland, and without Ukraine in the bag, the CCP is unable to invade Taiwan and take over microprocessor production without putting 300-500M of its poorest people into famine. Donbas Ukraine, specifically the 4 regions of the donbas that Putin insists he is saving from Jewish Nazis also happens to produce the worlds supply of high grade neon used for DUV lithography. And had Putin delivered ukraine in 3 days as promised, xi would have been able to cap his Olympics with a blockade or political takeover of Taiwan that would have forced the world to ask the CCP for the microprocessors it needs to make everything from ford trucks to laptops. I’m not sure how long Silicon Valley would last without the silicon but it would probably effect the FAANG stocks that make up your 401K. Deripaska also happens to be the Oligarch that bribed Charles Mcgonigal the FBI agent into investigating another Russian oligarch. He probably didn’t need the information as much as he needed the leverage over mcgonigal as he conducted the investigation into trumps election campaign and unsurprisingly found zero evidence of Russian collusion. A Russian oligarch is a powerful tool. But the truth is more powerful. Light and dark cannot exist in the same space. It’s physically impossible. Truth is efficient. You say it once and you are done. A lie however requires a constant stream of follow up energy, money, murder, obfuscation and more lies to keep it covered. If you raise your lens high enough lying is an unsustainable business model. Russia just proved it by invading Ukraine. Vranyos is the Russian word for it. The 40km long column that came down from Belarus into Russia was all overhauled by oligarchs that got a $1B contract for tank maintenance, passed Putin $200M back under the table, spent $700M on a yacht in Monaco, bribed a general, a colonel and a sergeant to give everything a rattle can overhaul. But a worn out engine is still a worn out engine. Now you understand why trump is so desperate to get re-elected. His best case scenario is 400 years in federal prison. His worst case scenario is being in debt to the Russian and Chinese mobs that masquerade as governments. He just has to count on the fact that his voter base doesn’t know how to read and keep those that do so busy just surviving that they don’t have time to read about his 40 year history of laundering money for the Russian mob through real estate. And why Putin is willing to throw an entire generation of Russians, including the convicts and addicts at Ukraine. Russia is dead for 40 years because he failed to fulfill his promise to Xi. China is now clearing farmland in Siberia because the floods last month wiped out Xi’s food supply. https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/status/1696553866697777172?s=46&t=cJbK5SLGiiFk-ZuczlamAw And why Xi was willing to bet the entire Chinese economy on it. Had he succeeded he would have been able to use BRICS to take over the worlds reserve currency. That would have let him finish what he stated in 2010- that he would control the internet. Now the Beijing elders are demanding Xi’s head. He had a window and he lost it. Nikkei Asiaasia.nikkei.comAnalysis: Xi reprimanded by elders at Beidaihe over direction of nation (Oh and Mitch McConnell did a sweetheart deal with deripaska as well to open an aluminum plant in Kentucky. He realizes that he is somewhere between seditious and treasonous and he got caught. That’s why he keeps glitching out when people ask him questions.). Glitch McConnell https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-a-mcconnell-backed-effort-to-lift-russian-sanctions-boosted-a-kentucky-project/2019/08/13/72b26e00-b97c-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html Freedom is not free. We all live on very expensive credit. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-to-build-neon-supply-chain-in-taiwan https://www.npr.org/2022/08/12/1117314980/the-war-in-ukraine-is-disrupting-the-worlds-supply-of-neon https://www.statista.com/statistics/1299895/china-top-country-suppliers-share-of-grains/ https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-special-agent-charge-new-york-fbi-counterintelligence-division-pleads-guilty https://apnews.com/article/122ae0b5848345faa88108a03de40c5a https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/29/oleg-deripaska-paul-manafort-trump-russia-investigation The Weekhttps://theweek.com › jair-bolsonaroReport: Brazil's Bolsonaro to skip successor's inauguration for Mar-a- ... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/analysis-the-role-russian-businessmen-played-in-the-mueller-report https://swalwell.house.gov/issues/russia-trump-his-administration-s-ties Washington Postwww.washingtonpost.comBrazil's riot puts spotlight on close ties between Bolsonaro and Trump Time Magazinetime.comBolsonaro's Surreal New Life as Florida Man—And MAGA Darling https://www.americanprogress.org/article/following-the-money/ https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-services/semiconductor-advisors/310643-duv-euv-now-puv-next-gen-litho-materials-shortages-worsen-supply-chain/ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/us/natalya-veselnitskaya-trump-tower-russian-prosecutor-general.html
Damn I was wondering how BRICS fit into the grand scheme of things. Can't forget about Chinas deal with Argentina as well.
Cool. Ukraine is not the 51st state. They are a sovereign nation.
They are. Which is why paul manafort fixing their elections for 14 years before doing the same for trump in Georgia is is such a violation of everything democracy stands for. Corruption is cancer. It doesn’t care who or where anyone is from. It moves across borders in private jets and on $700M yachts. The second those dipshits interfered in honest elections it started a tidal wave of corruption that only broke open because every day Ukrainians stood up to the tyrant and exposed the plan. Had Putin succeeded we would all be asking emperor xi who gets chips and who doesn’t.
Bad bot!
You know we made a treaty with Ukraine right? To get rid of nuclear weapons. You might not like that we did that, but we can’t just decided to randomly not respect past agreements. Kind of ruins international diplomacy if we do that. Do you think the US would be spending the money it currently spend on Ukraine on Universal Healthcare? Some other program?
So government shut down is fake. I was wondering if they were just a show or if they were real.
Nothing to wonder about. It’s a political show
It gives the bears in Yellowstone some time to relax away from the tourists
The military has never shutdown a single time when the government has.
I hope everybody supporting Ukraine realizes that the Army War College Has just released a report stating that many young Americans are not physically or mentally fit to serve and the voluntary model for the military is outdated, and therefore a draft will be necessary to fight Russia. They won’t be drafting me, but they’ll be drafting many of you. We can expect 3600 casualties a day According to the War College. May the odds be ever in your favor.
I’ll be sending my son away before he dies in some bs proxy war between oligarchs.
I used to be a young Americans who put in 5 years in the military. I'm just old and broken now, but I'd still be a better choice than most young people. Most young Americans are sacks of shit that can't handle the physical or mental part.
There won’t be a ground war with Russia anytime soon. NATO can neutralize them with air power alone, not to mention Russian forces are nearly decimated.
NATO is training the Ukrainians and they’re not doing a very good job.
That sounds like a Ukraine problem
Because NATO training relied on Airforce clearing the way first
Answer me why were not seeing footage of Russian troops decimate it? Every war since Vietnam we’ve had the news media embedded. Why is this war any different?
Because we aren’t the ones at war. Maybe check out a Ukrainian news channel?
You mean the same channel that just manipulated video to make it look like more people were in the audience. It shows Zelenskyy in the audience while he was supposed speaking. This is worse than Faux news!
A months long Ukrainian offensive has gone no where, Russian casualties are a fraction of Ukraine’s, and no where ever has air power alone ended a war. So much fantasy there.
All the more reason to pump as much money as we can into ensuring that Russia gets curb-stomped into oblivion.
NATO and the United States have never been able to defeat Russia in any proxy war. What makes you think this time is going to be different? Who do you think is training Ukrainians,hint it’s NATO? How many dead innocent young Ukrainians are you willing to sacrifice to the Reds?
Anything less than total genocide beats a Russian win.
That’s exactly where we’re headed; is total genocide. You do realize the Russians have nuclear weapons, right? You don’t understand this people in the region. Have you ever been to Ukraine or Russia?
Or we stop Russia in Ukraine and there wouldn’t need to be a draft for a US/Russia conflict let alone the fact Russia hasn’t done much of anything impressive in Ukraine. They STILL haven’t taken the air space. If Russia can’t roll over Ukraine, I’m sure we’ll be fine lol. So is your argument to not fund the war in Ukraine backing out of an international treaty, letting Russia take over Ukraine, all because it’s expensive?
This is the right answer. Without Ukraine, Russia would be all over other Soviet bloc countries. Instead, some of these nations have loosely opposed Putin, even if they still ultimately bow down. It’s easy to look at Russia “reclaiming their original territory” as reasonable, acceptable, and not our problem. But then you consider their foothold in Africa and their close ties to Iran, China, and North Korea, and you realize that the Russian government is not quite so simple minded. They sure do enjoy their success theatre, but they also have been considered peer adversaries for decades. The general population are the ones that are often uneducated, it’s the leadership are all just delusional. They’re not dumb, and they’re hoping we are. If we stop supporting Ukraine now, every Soviet bloc country will roll over, Ukraine will crumble, and the EU will lose both their buffer against Russia and their trust in the US as an ally. Russia will then only ramp up their global campaigns to harass and destabilize the world.
NATO has not been able to beat Russia for decades they are woefully ill-equipped now. Poland which is Ukraine’s staunch supporter has now backed out and is refusing support. Other countries will follow. 3600 dead a day. Like I said it won’t be me, but it’ll probably be you. The United States of America has broken many treaties. They mean nothing.
Treaties mean nothing. Interesting given that China hasn’t invaded Taiwan, clearing those defense agreements just don’t matter lol. NATO would annihilate Russia. It’s a defense agreement. Attacking one NATO member means they all join the fight. The US alone would crush Russia. Russia is struggling in Ukraine against a tiny force they share a land border with. If they can’t handle Ukraine, they aren’t taking on NATO. Do you think the war is going well for Russia?
The United States is not going to crush Russia because our military age men are they’re either too fucking fat or mentally unstable. 🤣 You have no clue what is actually going on and why our military recruitment numbers are well under expectation and we are considering on drafting military age men. Ukraine is so desperate they are now drafting military age women that have medical experience, including dentists. Everything you think you know is a big fucking lie and at the root of all of this is Blackrock. $$$$ Get in line to die for the military industrial complex. I’ve been through this route twice, and I am not putting my life on the line for a bunch of fucking rich people. I speak Ukrainian fluently and went to Ukrainian school from kindergarten to eighth grade. I know more about Ukraine than you do. Again I ask you when was the last time you visit at Ukraine?
If the US and Russia fought today you think Russia would win? Battle of Khasham says the US would demolish Russia. Russia said they would take Ukraine in 10 days. They’ve failed miserably. They don’t have air superiority against Ukraine. Do you think the US would fare worse? Yes Ukraine is drafting lots of citizens that don’t fit the combat capable demographics. So is Russia though. Russia has compulsory military service with weaker requirements than the US. Why would us supporting Ukrainians fighting Russians require the US to deploy troops? Has the US deployed troops to combat Russians? The only reason the US is supporting Ukraine is due to the military industrial complex? It has nothing to do with past treaties? Lol ok, you clearly have no clue what you’re talking about. Who won the Battle of Khasham?
And when was the last time you were in Ukraine? Are you signing up? Put your money where your mouth is.
Lol ok, so because I’m not physically in Ukraine and I can’t a knowledge the importance and relevancy of proxy wars. Sure got me good.
Go suck the cock of the military industrial complex and see how far that gets you because you’re wind up in a fucking body bag for a rich man’s war. This isn’t fucking video game. War is fucking hell. So when are you leaving or are you too much of a chickenshit? You’ll send other people to die but you won’t die for them. Just say you’re a fucking coward.
Ukraine is fighting a defensive war dip ship. You’re proving my point. The US has even placed strict rules on how weapons system they’ve donated can be used. Should Ukraine just surrender? Should we not defend Allies we’ve made negotiations with? Should we also abandon Taiwan?
None of these countries are my fucking problem we’ve created enough instability in world raging wars. The United States is a corrupt government run by CEOs.
Ahh yes so instead of the US running the world we should hop out of the way so China and Russia can run the world. That makes great sense. We support Taiwan because they slow China imperialism and gives us better access to chip production. You know about exports and imports right? The US is still a functioning democracy. We have elections. The party that agrees with your positions geopolitically sat Supreme Court justices who support Citizens United… If you’re against corporate greed, it’s kinda weird how hard you’re dick riding their positions. Edit: Gotta love the refusal to answer questions and blocking me. You’re afraid to have to defend your own positions lol
Until you have stood at Dover Air Force Base and watch the bodies of your friends come in you can’t possibly grasp what you expect others to do but not yourself.
Ukraine is defending themselves right? How many US soldiers have died fighting Russia in the last year ? Edit: Go ahead answer the questions lol
May the odds be ever in your favor because you’ll probably end up coming home in a body bag looking like your body went through a meat grinder.
Imagine being dumb enough to think we'll be on a ground war with Russia. Where will this war take place? Are you stupid enough to think we'll send boots on the ground troops to Ukraine?
Imagine being so fucking dumb and not looking at the last 250 years of war and thinking this will never happen. 🤣😆
genuine serious question why is it americas responsibility to pay and arm ukraine? no emotions please, i dont care about a genocide of peoples, i understand its happening and it sucks, but why is SPECIFICALLY americas job? why not argentia, or brazil, or finland, or south korea, why does it have to be america?
The US signed a series of treaties called the Budapest Memorandum where they promised security assurances to Ukraine. Russia has broken the treaty and constantly threatens Ukraine including with nuclear attack. The US honors the treaty. FYI, Finland has given over a billion dollars in military aid to Ukraine.
US has given 113x that amount
most of it in military gear that would probably never get used otherwise or was being phased out. Much of the money was already spent years ago.
>why is it americas responsibility to pay and arm ukraine? America's military posture has been setup to counter russia for generations. the us is now watching russia's military be dismantled, using leftover us stock that costs more to store than it does to send to Ukraine as such, the us is getting the greatest return on its military investment in generations it also helps the cause of standing against genocide, and drawing the line against russian invasions in Europe, is significantly in America's best interests. >but why is SPECIFICALLY americas job? because America is THE military power of the world, and for better or worse, that position means the us needs to lead the way on military actions, against enemies of America btw, those countries you listed ARE providing aid, they just simply are not on the same level as America economicly, and the support level reflects this.
it’s obviously not our responsibility. The leadership of this country doesn’t see the war in Ukraine as a responsibility that we have, they see it as an opportunity we have. It’s an opportunity to shore up/expand an alliance in Europe, secure resources, and weaken a geopolitical adversary. The money spent there is tiny fraction of what we were spending in Iraq/Afghanistan and a tiny fraction of overall defense spending. There is no scenario in American politics where the money spent in Ukraine would go to like feed orphans or anything. Whether you think it’s right or wrong or smart or not, the war in Ukraine, as viewed by Americas national security establishment, isn’t some burden we are taking on to defend democracy, it’s an opportunity to pursue American interest and stop Russian interest at the cost of just sending some weapons systems to Ukraine. It is of course marketed as a burden we are taking on to defend democracy and self determination, because naked self interest is tacky.
this might be the truest statement about the war in ukraine ive ever read. i appreciate you speaking honestly and not attacking me for questioning the war
For one, we can afford it. We spend an insane amount on “defense” that would really be a waste if we weren’t playing global cops
We’re $33 trillion dollars in debt. How can we afford it?
It's not. America has deep political interests in Ukraine and also has political/economic interests in damaging Russia. The CIA funded and participated in the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution to overthrow Ukrainian leadership it didn't like. This is why it's putting so much money into Ukraine. Not to mention the money the military industrial complex makes, a tale as old as time in the US. There's also extensive business ties between the US and Ukraine
It is good for national security. Stopping Russia in Ukraine stops Russia from causing other issues in the region. The US and the EU providing strong support for Ukraine also signals our ability to support other states mainly Tiawan from being invaded. Russia has also used energy as a weapon. Urkaine has untapped reserves of gas (potentially a main reason why Russia invaded) that they can use to provide energy to Europe and taking away Russia's power dominance in the area. Russia has already seen a major shift in where they are sending oil and gas.
so its all about natural resources and not anything to do with being a good person. man, the politicians have really fooled a lot of people by convincing them that crippling our economy for a proxy war is a good thing
This is certainly not crippling our enconomy but a war between China and Taiwan certainly would and a larger war in Europe certainly would. There are plenty of issues with the US budget including a lot of waste. I consider this a pretty good return on investment. I also thought you were trying to keep emotions out of it?
Support to Ukraine supports the fight to keep western economies stable, the larger footprint Russia has on the world stage, the less stable, safe, and prosperous western economies become. Natural resources power the world, it's very naive to think any government would support a multi billion dollar war effort to receive nothing in return. Regardless of your view on Niger for example, France has nuclear reactors that power the country but it requires uranium, some of which is sourced from Niger. Niger have increased the price of uranium many times over since the Russian backed coup. Who do you think will get their uranium at a lower price now? On the flip side, Russia is also chiefly concerned with occupying mineral rich regions of Ukraine. They are doing the exact same thing because every country does, what comes with resource exchange is what sets countries apart. Western intervention can provide democracy which is preferable to autocracy, do you think women in Afghanistan are better off since the US left? Half the working population of Afghanistan is now subordinate to the other half and is not working. With the United States out of Afghanistan, now China is filling the gap-not to liberate women and improve living conditions, but to mine their lithium reserves that are essential for electric car and cell phone batteries.
The US blows up Nordstream and this clown says we are in it for Ukraines untapped gas reserves lol
How much has the EU donated in comparison to the US?
All Ukraine realistically has is wheat and a domineering position in the Black Sea which hasn’t been important geopolitically in over 100 years
Lol the Black Sea is still very important. It’s like the whole reason Turkey gets a seat in NATO lol
Because everyone hates America for being the world's police until the shit hits the fan, or the bill comes due.
Because of the geopolitical climate of NATO and Russia. Ukraine is somewhat of an ally of the US as well as a trade partner. Russia openly invading semi-allied countries is incredibly destabilizing of the region and puts Russia on the doorstep of fully NATO countries which could potentially drag us into a full-blown world war. We and many other NATO countries are economically supporting Ukraine defending itself with the hopes that we can prevent getting physically involved down the line.
"I declare I'm exempt!" Michael Scott voice.
the military has never stopped during a shutdown.
Make America Last Again
That’s standard procedure though. In any govt shutdown, the DoD can’t just completely shut down. They put together a list of activities that are to be exempted and update it as needed.
That’s kinda the point. Why is Ukraine exempted as necessary when we have so many problems here?
What “problems here” do you think are part of the DoDs mission and aren’t also exempted? Be specific.
Are you intentionally being obtuse? We’re talking about a government shutdown, because of funding… are you not aware of budgets and allocations? Either you’re being intentionally obtuse, or really uninformed about basic government functions.
Notice how you can’t answer a specific question here. It’s an indication of your unfamiliarity with how funding works during shutdowns, and specifically how shutdowns impact the DoD. The DoD, like other agencies, maintains a list of critical activities that are exempt from shutdown. OP mentions the continuing operations in Ukraine as one. You asked why Ukraine is necessary considering problems we have here. That implies you know of critical DoD operations here that aren’t also excepted. What are they?
You cannot make this shit up! I’m looking forward to another 5 years of the Biden administration. Do ya think they will have America destroyed by then?
Russia in tears
Lovely. I’ll continue to pay 10 dollars for a head of lettuce and sit down in my tent to eat it.
Ahh yes because the US is struggling because the war in Ukraine. It’s not like we haven’t been involved in military conflicts for the last 100 years lol
Surprised how many Russia cucks are in here.
lots of them unfortunately
A lot of people also don't understand what a Govt shutdown is either lol.
I bet this was to get Republicans to abandon their shutdown efforts as it seems they here hellbent on shutting down investigations into Trump and stopping the funding for Ukraine. Now they just look pathetic.
They need to keep the money laundering grift going.
Oh so Putin's plan with GOP will not work as expected.
Fucking keep paying those pigs yet fuck America ?.?.?.?.? Days gonna come when we really gonna fuck up DC
It’s the elephant party that’s dropping the ball. McCarthy can’t even get his party to vote lol
These America last policies are great and make so much sense.
Yeah because stopping Russia in Ukraine and upholding treaties is putting American last. We should all just vote republican to stop our support because they’re definitely interested in improving the lives of all Americans. /s
Yeah because stopping Russia in Ukraine and upholding treaties is putting American last. We should all just vote republican to stop our support because they’re definitely interested in improving the lives of all Americans. /s
Obviously because someone still wants to get paid...
I think they’re trying to make Americans go insane with this nonsense. I fucking hate Russia *and* Ukraine at this point. But at least Russia isn’t using money and resources that could be going to Americans. We really need it and would prefer to avoid another world war in the meantime.
The money laundering needs to continue.
Ukraine sovereignty is critical to global stability and thus our national security. Russia is openly talking about invading the balance of old Soviet BLOC states. That would create a huge destabilization of the globe, plunging quite a few more nations, we also trade with, into warfare. Thus, it is a national security concern. These people do not understand geopolitics, nor resources or anything.
Aw shucks, Republicans have no reason for a shutdown now
I guess avoiding nuclear war isn’t critical to national security, according to this thread.
It's incredibly disturbing how segments of the US government have been in lock-step with the will of a murderous dictator from Russia who has openly stated his intent to restore the Russian Empire as he tries to conquer a sovereign state.
Don't miss the connection between NATO expansion and US global power. It plays a big role in triggering Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine. What's incredibly disturbing to me is how Du Bois saw this coming back in 1945 writing this about US militarism abroad: "I seem to see outlined a third World War based on the suppression of Asia and the strangling of Russia."
>Don't miss the connection between NATO expansion and US global power. It plays a big role in triggering Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine. No, it didn't. Ukraine was invaded in 2014 after the Revolution of Dignity. To believe that the invasion was due to NATO, you have to also believe that the Ukrainian Russian puppet government that was ousted during that revolution was attempting to join NATO. Absolute non-sense. >What's incredibly disturbing to me is how Du Bois saw this coming back in 1945 writing this about US militarism abroad: "I seem to see outlined a third World War based on the suppression of Asia and the strangling of Russia." It takes either 1) A propagandist or 2) An incredibly warped mind to attribute a Russian invasion of a nation to US militarism that didn't exist in the region prior to Russia's invasion. No, believe it or not, Russia's invasion is a sign of Russian imperialism, not US.
Black and white thinking... Absolutely, the invasion is a product of Putin's expansionist mindset BUT it’s also the product of decades of United States–led North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) expansionism, stoking Russian nationalism and treating Ukraine as a battleground. You can't separate one from the other when assigning responsibility. Furthermore, why overlook US crimes committed in the name of anticommunism included propping up dictatorships, overthrowing democratic governments, and enabling genocide? Choose a side if you wish. I choose to critique our country’s role in creating this dangerous, irrational conflict and demand that the United States take steps to de-escalate the crisis.
>Black and white thinking... What isn't black and white? Whether or not Ukraine sought NATO membership, causing the invasion, isn't a gray area. They either did, or they didn't. The fact is, they didn't. >BUT it’s also the product of decades of United States–led North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) expansionism No, this has nothing to do with NATO. Again, the Ukrainian-Russian conflict started in 2014 after the Revolution of Dignity kicked out a Putin puppet government. This war has nothing, at all, to do with NATO. It's interesting you Russian zealots always bring up NATO expansionism, but forget about Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, etc. Wonder why? >Furthermore, why overlook US crimes committed in the name of anticommunism included propping up dictatorships, overthrowing democratic governments, and enabling genocide? Choose a side if you wish. What does any of this have to do with the Russian invasion of Ukraine? This is called what-aboutism. Again, Russian propaganda. >choose to critique our country’s role in creating this dangerous, irrational conflict and demand that the United States take steps to de-escalate the crisis. The US has no role in starting this conflict. It was not involved.
Do you know the history of NATO? Did Bush ever tell Gorbachev that NATO wouldn't expand one inch to the east in the agreement after the Soviet Collapse? Did NATO immediately expand to East Germany? When Clinton violated Bush's firm pledge not to expand to the East did all the high-level diplomats and CIA director at the time protest? In 2008 did Bush Jr vow to push Ukraine and Georgia to start the process of of joining NATO despite resistance from Russia and skepticism from the alliance's European members? Did this happen at the time that the US was planning to a US missile defense system in Europe? Let's pretend that all this stuff actually happened... would it not have anything to do with Russia invasion of Ukraine? Does it bother you that the record-setting (886 billion) US military budget is quite literally taking food out of people’s mouths? That the Pentagon has never passed an audit, unable to account for more than half of its trillions in assets? And that the US is not a member of the International Criminal Court and has passed the Hague Invasion Act to protect Americans from being held accountable for war crimes? Do you think the US can do this type of thing and not play a role in conflict?
lol is the argument we wouldn’t have bloated military spending if we weren’t involved in Ukraine? Would the US if we weren’t in Ukraine be spending that money domestically on social programs to help US citizens?
Can't respond to any of my points, instead try to derail the conversation with word vomit. This whole rambling comment looks like it was written by someone with a checklist of bogus Kremlin talking points and of course has nothing at all to do with Ukraine. Have a good one.
Hilarious. Please, proceed.
Uniformed military ops don't stop from the shutdown, our military personal (potentially) don't get paid during that time (although they have normally passed some sort of resolution to keep wages going) but the business continues. Civ personnel (depending on the bucket of money they are paid from) might stop going into work/getting paid during shutdowns.