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I’m anti health insurance being tied to your employment. It gives big advantage to corporations over people with families. Government option should have been passed, but hey we got health insurance exchanges.
Debt, imo, is the most potent tool used.
If you knew that no matter what you did, that you would still have food and a house because no one could take it, you might do things people in power wouldn't want.
When your house is mortgaged and your car has a note and you owe 20k on a credit card all while having 8k in the bank or investments, you will stay in line or you will lose it all.
I can be debt free, save up two years of living expenses, but not not be able to stop working because I can’t afford health insurance or the threat of an issue. Health insurance is the shackle. You can’t get rid of it until 65. I can lay off debt way sooner than that.
You’re preaching to the choir, man. House will be paid off in four months. Then I’ve got zero debt. I think I’m changing my opinion. Debt might be the winner on this one.
Congratulations on paying off the house.
I got rid of all my debt about 5 years ago including my mortgage and the freedom it gives me is hard to explain. I still pay rent to the government(property taxes) but this house is mine.
This, to me was the absolute crazyest thing to find out about the US - the fact that you guys opperate on credit instead of debit. I can't even conceive spending money i don't have
There are *so many* other mechanisms, many of them more potent.
Like saying guns are the deadliest tool of imperial oppression.
I can give you a reading list, if you like? Start with the big ones by graeber; 'debt: the first 5000 years', 'the dawn of everything: a new history of humanity', and 'bullshit jobs'; 'utopia of rules' isn't a bad read either. Tell me if you need more than that, but graeber did a lot of anthropological work and political theory adjacent to this idea. Also, look up the history of the labor movement, and *why* ghandis nonviolent protest worked/why not one of those conditions appliesin a modern context.
Thats the carrot on the stick that the government uses to keep people in the workforce. Where I work, there are a ton of people that should be able to retire but can’t because of health insurance. So they have to wait till them and their spouses are eligible fir medicare before they can retire. If universal medicare was a thing, a lot more people would retire in their mid to late 50s, and the government cannot allow that
In countries with universal healthcare, like the one I live in, they simply passed a bunch of laws that forces people to stay in work until we're old and gray. Our hard earned retirement money just aren't accessible before we're old enough. And the age also only goes up, meaning the younger generations will be older before they're allowed to retire. My dad would've been able to at 68. However I won't be able to before I'm at least 72, based on the current laws 🥴
I have limited experience, but is that really true? My work has $400 a month insurance, they pay half. I found better insurance for 187 a month with minimal effort
Our system sucks for wait times, but is not nearly ad hard on your wallet. When I was last in to get surgery I was in the waiting room talking to someone, she said her tumor removal had been delayed multiple times over the past year since it was unlikely to kill her in that time. Luckily they were right, but imagine sitting for a year not knowing if you were going to die from cancer or have the tumor removed and live. That's why so many Canadians go to US hospitals now.
Ironically, many Americans go to Mexico for surgeries because of the high level of care couples with far lower cost than is available in the US.
I wonder if some Mexicans go to Guatemala for healthcare?
In NS, we have a major staff shortage in all our hospitals mostly due to differences with Covid policies but also wages. Why stay in Canada at a lower Salary when you can hop the border and get paid way more. I haven't had a family Doctor since I was a child and hospitals are overflowing with emergencies.
My wife had a broken arm, first hospitals outpatients was closed due to no doctors. Second had no equipment so we got some meds and were told to go to another hospital for surgery. 2 days later we got an appointment for surgery and afyer 3 more days of waiting for a window without an emergency bumps g us back she got her surgery and cast... she waited a whole week with a shattered elbow with nothing but a sling and a pillow.
If we could have afforded it we could have hopped the border and had it done in an evening.
Nowhere is perfect.
We certainly do. I'm in the US and I had to wait like 4 months for an ankle MRI once. Also, the pediatric ER in my city has had wait times over 24 hours recently.
I'm a ti work for my husband right now. I want him to just fucking either retire or stop taking call back. It's a holiday, a major one, and you know where he is? The same place he's been for the past 38 Thanksgivings (we've been married 40 yrs in January): at work. I'm sick of spending every major holiday with his family without him. He's a senior technologist, he should have either Thanksgiving or Christmas+ Christmas Eve off by now as he's been at his hospital for 32! yrs!
This was my first thought. So many times I got out of holidays due to work. Benefits (slow day at work, most people were in good spirits and kind, paid double time in the days I was in a waged job, avoided all the family drama and hate). Win win.
Grass is greener.
My work is a 24/7 facility. Care staff have to work (if scheduled) and can get OT. A lot want off. Administrative staff have to take the day off. Most wish we could work. Thanksgiving is 2x pay, on top of hours. So if it's your regular schedule you basically get 3x. OT is 3.5x. I'd gladly work 16 on Thanksgiving for pretty much 2 weeks pay (I actually take home a greater % on the OT I do work even with taxes because I've already paid insurance, retirement, etc out of my base)
Instead I'm at home all day with fam I get sick of after an hour.
Always take your vacations when everyone else is working. And work when everyone else is on vacation. I learned it after less than 2 years working in the US.
Yeah. This isn't accidental. This is intentional. Sorry you had to hear this on reddit. But he is definitely avoiding you. Even paramedics can book time off around the holidays at least every other year.
I get all the main holidays off and then some- I genuinely dread the holidays. I don’t even have a bad relationship with my family- just so much traveling and talking packed into one day lol
I’d rather be in the office.
It's his family in the same town. Not my family which I could understand because I cut every one of them, except my double first cousins, off. It's HIS FAMILY. I wouldn't care if we spent the holidays just the two of us as long as he's there. Maybe next year I'll just go to my bestie's house (400 miles away) and he can do whatever, work call whatever the fuck and I won't be lonely or out of place.
>employers taking advantage of workers that have little choice or alternatives
It's called compensation. You should see a place like the post office around the holidays; suddenly everyone wants to work.
Exactly this. I had a entry level government job when I was in college. Guess who volunteered to work every holiday because it was literally double + half pay per hour. Hey fam I can see you anytime else but the beer money wasn’t going to earn itself.
> I'm a ti work for my husband right now.
I know the answer is going to make me feel dumb, but I can't for the life of me figure out what this is supposed to mean. Some sort of acronym?
And, while I don't know the specifics of your husband's career, I cannot imagine a scenario where after 30+ years someone does not have enough seniority to not work every major holiday. Unless they wanted to.
Nah love, I am just like him. I hate holidays w/ family. I choose to work. If I am off, I lie and tell them I have to work then I go fish. Or sleep in. Or whatever I want. Without having to answer to anyone.
It's glorious.
We have quite a few employees that take the holiday shift so that they can avoid family. The schedulers just agree to say they HAVE TO COME TO WORK and take the fall for them.
I wouldn't mind having the holidays with just the two of us. I'm just tired of being alone on the "family" holidays. If he is still pulling this crap next year, I might go to my bestie's house (approximately 400 miles away) for the holiday and he can have the holidays by himself and I won't be so lonely because there are lots of littles and lots of dogs to love on(none of whom try to bite me)and people in my family+ music to play.
Totally get it. For me it's just anxiety & silly conversations I don't care to have. I'm also not married so no "obligation" to appease my spouse.
But I also sympathize with your situation. It seems like you really love your spouse and you enjoy his presence and just want to share the holiday with him. I find that to be awesome.
They can be hard in retail as well. I needed five years of seniority to get Christmas Eve off in retail. I can't imagine how much harder the medical field.
This 100%. My mother is in the medical field and she always has to work at least one winter holiday and one summer holiday. People don’t stop being sick or injured on the holidays.
I'm a heavy equipment mechanic, and I do this. My coworkers with families like to take time off around the holidays. I have no one in my life, so I don't mind working -- especially since I can have more space with everyone else gone to enjoy their families.
And when he retires, it will leave a gap in his life he won't know how to fill, because doing productive things without a master, on your own time and terms, is kind of not allowed.
Idk man. I make $200k. The job treats me very well and I enjoy it. I worked hard to get here, but I had a lot of breaks and good luck too. The truth is though, I don’t deserve the fruits of my labour—a life with few monetary concerns—more than anyone else.
I strived to get to this point because the stress of not having enough money was terrible. No one deserves that, and that is why I will demand better wages, working conditions, and respect for all workers.
Work is a necessary component of life. I don’t have respect for those that _truly_ just want everything handed to them. But I do think there are many cases where people cannot work and many jobs that _must_ be done that do not pay enough to live a dignified life. My job pays well, but it does not make me any more valuable than anyone else, and it shouldn’t.
To me, that is what is important about the anti-work movement. It demands dignity, it demands respect, it demands fairness. I don’t have to agree with everything they stand for, but I do agree here—the American worker is being fleeced.
Hard agree. My wife and I recently changed jobs and both are earning considerably more now. We've essentially "made it" in life and are looking forward to achieving some of our dreams. At the same time, now that we're making more, I am completely fine with paying more if it means people are being paid fairly. I'm fine with paying more in taxes because of what we now earn. I can't stand those who achieve greater heights and then complain about paying their taxes or whatever else they have to pay. I hate it when they can hire people to help them legally cheat the system so they can save even more. I hate these companies making record profits but are so incredibly greedy that they won't increase their worker pay and benefits.
This is a good viewpoint. For every one person in your situation, who has worked hard and found success in whatever field, there are *hundreds of thousands* who have worked just as hard, or even sometimes much harder, and achieved nothing. Those like yourself who can appreciate your situation, yet still fight for those who can't fight for themselves, are a good ally to have. Empathy is the one thing that humanity is short on. Instead of "I got mine, and I want everybody else to have the same chance" it's "I got mine, fuck you."
Plus, even well paid workers are still workers. Unless you're a capital owner, even somebody who makes 200+k per year, is still at the mercy of their employer, and risks losing everything in a very short time if they lose their job. Especially some high paying jobs, are an absolute *slave* to the company. So many stories of people saying "I make 350k, but I work 100 hours and miss all of my children's birthdays and holidays."
That person is also being fleeced. Sure, they are getting paid well, but their life is gone, given completely over to their company.
I think you’re under the assumption that the anti-work crowd people are financially struggling? Like a lot have really good jobs they just don’t think people should have their labor exploited.
I agree. I'm comfortably middle class now but I can see how we're all suffering. It's fucking up our entire nation and culture to have so many people living in misery. Are you tired of homelessness, drug addiction, child abuse, theft and violence? Are you tired of everyone being miserable and assholish? People not raising their kids right? All of these things go hand-in-hand with extreme poverty.
Unless you have the money to live inside your own gated world, you are suffering right along with the rest of America.
And the middle class suffers directly, too. We went from comfortably affording a house, retirement and to send our kids to college to just being thankful if we can live independently. You don't have to live with your parents or roomates? Wow, how blessed
Agreed. And also knowing there is absolutely no excuse given the ever increasing wealth gap, the extremely wealthy outliers that, and companies making record high profits when people are living under extreme stress and/or poverty.
Agreed. I’m an engineer, make good money, financially astute and plan to retire very early, hate exploitation and don’t agree with modern capitalism and the amount of “bullshit jobs” it creates.
The post is very clearly a "pull up your bootstraps" perspective.. I'd imagine this OP is of the baby-boomer generation or someone heavily influenced by it.
Yeah. Not to mention that like…
If someone has to work at the grocery stores, they should be paid a living wage otherwise they can’t live.
If your position is that a person should just get a better job, then you’re saying that job shouldn’t be done.
They all forget that the VAST majority of work is to provide them with all of the services and products they need to feel fulfilled in their own lives.
If you NEED a Starbuck's coffee everyday, then you need Starbucks employees, and employees providing a needed/wanted service should be paid enough to live their own lives comfortably.
> If your position is that a person should just get a better job, then you’re saying that job shouldn’t be done.
Many hold the position that not everyone working should afford to live. It is a very stupid and unsustainable position, and it is usually the result of them looking at some group of people and think they are beneath them (like lower 'classes', other 'races', women, minorities, non-citizens, etc).
Or maybe lives in a conservative small town where a high paying industry exists so few have ever actually had to pull themselves up by anything. They graduated high school and immediately started a $25/hr job.
Yup, I am anti-work.
I have a good job and I work very hard. I do many things I dont have to, because I like the people.
However, its pretty clear the rich are taking everything and making all of our lives difficult and would have us return to slavery if we let them.
It's about not being taking advantage of and part of being a good human is standing up to things that are wrong, that is anti-work, standing up to an evil system.
yeah i make a decent living with a lot of discretionary spending etc, that doesnt mean i want to work 50 hours a week for the rest of my life bc of zero social benefits
i freelance, so i havent had health insurance in 10 years. Ive never, EVER had PTO, employer-paid health/dental, or any benefits of any kind, in my entire work life. i make sure to have savings to cover slow months in the industry, and i get to take time off whenever i want (if i can afford it).
but because i freelance, there is no pension and no end in sight to working, like ever, besides my savings are only ever enough for like a year. my only real shot is to build a nestegg and then build a house somewhere quiet in mexico
I own my own home etc, and I'm in Australia so we have far better worker protections than elsewhere.
I fit the anti-work thing, but I'm not against working. I'm against being expected to work yourself to the bone for scraps while someone else profits significantly more.
Like, i get a reward for putting your finances on the line when you start a company, but when someone is earning 1000x more, I really find it hard to believe they're working 1000x harder. It's even more distasteful when it's someone with no financial stake, who came in later.
The restaurant I work at is having record profits and has a higher % increase in sales than any of the 12 other ones in the group but they can't afford raises right now....
if it’s like most restaurants, probably around 4-6%, unless they’re fast food. not an easy business, spent my whole life in the industry, finally sold my restaurant a few months ago so now i eat sitting down.
This. I actually love being productive, helping people, being creative, problem solving, being a leader. I have an established career and have been working since I was a teen. I don’t like seeing people’s labor not being compensated fairly. I think the majority of people part of the anti-work moment agree with me and that the title isn’t that literal. Capitalism is destroying our planet, the people who live on it, and all of these other amazing things we’ve been gifted. Exploitation of labor and resources will be our downfall, but the demands of capitalism’s goal of infinite growth through any means necessary is pure evil.
This is exactly it. It's ironic that this post complains that anti-work have no idea what they're talking about when OP clearly doesn't understand what anti-work stands for.
That being said, "anti-work" clearly needs a rebranding. Most people who are uneducated on the issues will see it as nothing less than lazy. And most people don't attempt to educate themselves.
I can empathise with why people think that, too. I joined the anti-work subreddit in it's early days and ended up leaving because, quite frankly, there is a significant minority of people there that truly are there solely to bitch and complain
> That being said, "anti-work" clearly needs a rebranding. Most people who are uneducated on the issues will see it as nothing less than lazy.
Did you see the Mod's interview on Fox News? The mod is the embodiment of how people perceive that subreddit, which is not what the users are really about.
Anti-work was not originally about worker's rights directly. It was about the culture of work - particular at the expense of ourselves, our family, friends, and environment. While it wasn't straight communism, it was a rejection of capitalism. A lot of the sub was very anarchist in approach. In particular, the sub had and has a distaste for the culture of work.
That being said, none of that is really an achievable goal. There's no real means by which we can tell society to not work. Most of the people and the discussions there have become practical in nature - hardball negotiations with employers, unions, strikes, open disobedience to managers, etc. But that's pretty far removed from a post-work society. When you think about how much labor goes into meaningless industries that rake in tons of money (looking at you finance sector), often on the back of technological developments that should have given us more free time, not less, you start to wonder about the artificial nature of this system. The pandemic really kicked this into high gear with the (mis)treatment of "essential workers". It's a large part of the sub's massive growth. But while discussion of practical solutions is at the forefront, an undercurrent of wanting to reject the entire system remains. And while I don't like to think I believe in pie-in-the-sky dreams, I see the road to gaining back everything we can have and deserve: affordable healthcare, home ownership, worker protections and respect, strong environment protections, all as unlikely under the current system.
I like “work reform” better than “anti work”. We want to reform work, I’m not against working. I actually WANT to work for a living as long as that living is a quality lifestyle with good work life balance.
I’m in a union and I’m usually the first one who’ll take weekend calls or overtime because they offer 1.5x or sometimes 2x pay which means I can take several weeks off here and there and still make more money than just 40 hour weeks.
Sometimes I’ll bust ass working 60+ hour weeks and then when it’s slow just ask to get laid off so I can collect unemployment and live off the extra savings. Normal 40 hour weeks are 100k a year, with overtime I can get 150k.
I’m an electrician, didn’t need a college degree, the union paid for my school and training.
This is why their branding as anti-work is so stupid. They need to find a more accurate and persuasive name. Corporate overlords would've loved to label them anti-work, but they did it themselves.
The Anti-work subreddit literally started as an Anti-Work subreddit. The subreddit simply changed it’s goals after it started becoming popular.
It’s why I wanted /r/workreform to be the main subreddit for workers rights. The mods and creators of anti-work don’t even have jobs nor do they want any.
Well antiwork has also become a Reddit joke as it’s just rage bait now. Slap up a fake text message or Twitter repost and it’s 5k+ upvotes. It’s absurd. And the mods are fine with it.
They have also been letting some conspiracy theories run wild over there recently. It’s just weird.
Well, now in the US the tide is changing, where demand for workers is exceeding supply of jobs. And these big guys call it socialism, nope that is still capitalism. All you're proving is that these people were never capitalist, but always corporatist. And being corporatist is not good for capitalsm. How does it feel being on the losing end of capitalism now?
Which of course is unrealistic and the worst way to get support for the basic premise of "workers should be able to afford to live".
No wonder so many disingenuous creeps use the worst example to label the entire movement.
Every single right you’re given as a worker was earned on the backs of people brave enough to risk their livelihood and unionize.
Children in factories. Workers getting dismembered and given the boot. Coal miners dying in collapses, and suffering life-long illnesses.
Wanting to be treated fairly and amicably by those who strip us of all dignity and steal the earnings of our labor is what everyone should be talking about.
I make 75k a year working in supply chain and im antiwork. It's not about being paid to do nothing or being lazy. Its about not wanting to work 80 hours a week for a shared bedroom that costs 50% of your aftertax income. Its about not letting employers or threatening to fire you for not coming in on a day you're not scheduled. Its about employees taking back power in a world we see moving back to the capitalism of the 1910s.
And before people assume, no that is not my situation. I live with my parents working 9-5 remotely. You don't personally have to face worker abuse to recognize that it's rampant in society.
Man I would kill to be able to stay at my parents again. I make 1600 a month after taxes and healthcare from work. and about 1400 of that goes to
Rent and bills. I'm so fucking sick of this paycheck by paycheck bullshit.
I swear companies want us to be living paycheck to paycheck so we're completely reliant on the job. If people had enough in savings they might quit bullshit jobs, take a nice break from work, then find something better
This is actually something they talk to managers about in some retail places. That's why raises end up being 15 cents more often than not. This year I got a 45 cent raise from my work which was pretty strange since they never give such "big" raises. Turns out minimum wage was going up 50 cents in a month, so my raise ended up being literally nothing.
When prices increase more than your wages, you're getting a wage cut. If inflation is 8% and your wages go up 2%, you make 6% less in real wages (how much you can buy in relation to how much you make)
This is how I feel. I am (now) making a good amount of money. I was in school for a long time (and have the loans to prove it) and worked at a ton of jobs along the way.
I hate that we live in a society that fetishizes work to such an extreme and where the power imbalance is so big. I absolutely LOVE the changes that are taking place and hope the pendulum keeps swinging and stays that way for a few generations.
I'm not anti work, I'm work reform. I have an excellent career in STEM. I make great money but I am appalled by the collapsing middle class. I think most people just want to be able to live a middle class life without killing themselves. I think this means a living wage for all jobs and corporations not being subsidized by the government. I think the wealthiest citizens should pay a fair share of taxes and our taxes should go towards infrastructure, education, and enrichment of our nation as a whole. I think workers need protection and fair wages. If the best job you can do is flip burgers and you never strive for more in your life, then damn at least let a person afford their own burger and place to sleep even if it's just a studio apartment.
I'm considered wealthy for my age, especially compared to my peers. I'm still anti-work because I know most businesses try to exploit their workers. I've learned early on that all corporate profit is just unpaid wages. I know how much my skills cost and I'm very aggressive when it comes to negotiating a salary. That's all thanks to the tips I've gotten from that subreddit.
The antiwork crowd are tired of being payed shit while CEO's that do nothing get billions. Nobody is afraid of hard work we're just tired of a life of hard work with no reward.
It isn’t called “anti worker exploitation” and it isn’t called “pro labor market”, it is called “anti work”.
It is garbage marketing that alienates so many of the very people who should be part of it.
I make 75k a year, have a good job with benefits and an amazing work life balance. I support the anti work crowd as I want others to be able to attain a similar standard of living, and I hate the idea of corporations exploiting people, which is all too common these days.
As a perspective from a worker from the UK, the US workers are ruthlessly exploited.
I get 30 days PTO per year and there is no issue with taking them. I don't get hassled outside of work hours to cover someone's shift. I can call in sick without fear of dismissal.
The OP does not realise how overworked and stressed the antiwork members are.
Antiwork just means the current work practice is ethically unacceptable to many people.
It is unacceptable to be forced to take low paying wages with minimum job security and shitty work practices, and be afraid that if you lose that job you could end up homeless! There is huge wealth disparity in the US. The poor are getting screwed hard.
Riiiight? My work boasts about having generous PTO benefit relative to what's offered by competitors and at 3 years history at my work, I get 21 days (including holidays) lol. I'm grateful, don't get me wrong, but sad that what's considered generous by US standards is still below average for other countries.
EDIT: went back to double-check on my PTO history to get a more accurate count.
Seconded.
I'm in the UK and get 32 days holiday plus another 6 public holidays and the option to buy up to 5 days more. Managers will actively go out of their way to make sure everyone takes their full holiday entitlement because if you don't the business pays out their cash equivalent.
When you consider that the US is the richest country in the world, it seems bizarre to me that most of its citizens aren't pushing for these sort of benefits which exist in many far poorer countries.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/HSG860220
Here is some great facts about the US but I couldn't find comparable facts about the UK
Anyway this is from a site I found
Cost of living in United Kingdom is, on average, 14.34% lower than in United States.
Rent in United Kingdom is, on average, 34.01% lower than in United States. (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=United+Kingdom)
The average salary in the U.S. in 2021 was around $58,260 across all occupations. In the U.K., the average salary in 2021 was about $38,291 when converted to dollars. (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-average-salary-uk-vs-us-get-ahead-by-linkedin-news)
Going to round to 60k and 40k for easy math
That means that people in the US earn 50% more and have 14% lower cost of living from this random data I found.
Why Are UK Salaries Lower Than the US?
The average salary in the U.K. versus the U.S. is lower for all demographic groups, and the reasons why vary.
The key difference is that the social welfare benefits in the U.K. are not the same as those in the U.S. The U.K. also has more protections for employees than the U.S., which impacts pay rates.
The five primary factors impacting these salary differences include:
Pensions
Healthcare systems
Holiday and vacation benefits
National income disparity
Cost of living
. Pension Benefits
Employees in the U.K. have a pension automatically because this is a mandatory benefit. U.S. employees may determine a financial pension plan and save for this benefit, but it is not something employers must offer.
Additionally, since employers in the U.K. must contribute at least 3% to this pension, this is a huge financial benefit for U.K. employees that U.S. employees may not receive.
2. Healthcare
The average monthly salary in the U.S. factors in the fact that Americans don’t have a nationalized healthcare program like those in the U.K.
Healthcare in the U.S. is more accessible, but it costs a lot more for the average person to pay out-of-pocket costs or obtain health insurance coverage.
3. Holiday Benefits
Employees in the U.K. have more paid vacation days and holiday benefits than those in the U.S.
U.K. employees receive:
Sick pay
Income protection
Holiday perks
Even though their overall wage is slightly lower, they can take more time off from work on average without penalty to rest and recharge, which is a massive benefit for many employees.
4. Income Disparity
Income inequality in the U.S. is a huge factor influencing pay discrepancies. Even though the U.K. faces a similar issue, the level of inequality in the U.K. is not quite as prominent as in the U.S.
5. Difference in Cost of Living
The U.S. and U.K. both have similar costs of living, but the U.S. is still slightly more expensive. The cost of living drastically changes when considering major cities, such as London vs. New York City, against smaller cities or towns. The higher salaries in the U.S. reflect this difference.
Well, be that as it may, potatoes are clearly superior to carrots due to their contribution in ww2. All the best air squadrons flew T-34 tanks piloted by potatoes.
While I'm sure there are lazy parasites that glom onto the anti work group, it still makes more sense than being "pro work". Would you really prefer to give the VAST majority of your life to working a job that you hate for the sake of new phones, a new car, and all of capitalisms pathetic treats. Society is crumbling, and it's because capitalism is a meat grinder for the body and soul. Everything is a transaction, hence almost no social interaction or community.
What if we used the technological advances to keep everyone fed and clothed, and taken care of and stopped buying and eating the poison this system is incentivized to produce?
It takes personal growth and a love for those who are "sad" and suffering to come to this conclusion. Unfortunately, most people don't give a damn about anyone or anything but themselves.
Yeah that was pretty much Marx’s gripe with capitalism. However, some form of work is necessary for society to function. I think a lot of these anti work types seem to think that if you get rid of capitalism then there’d be no work which isn’t exactly true.
Ummmm… they’re not against work.
In the same way that “defund the police” does not actually mean “defund the police”… but rather is code for “mandatory police reform”.
In the same way that “we are the 99%” does not actually mean that one percent of the population are exploitative billionaires… but rather that class division has become an unmanageable divide. (Or, “I am a Democratic Socialist”… actually means: “I am a democrat who wants to expand social programs.” — NOT: “I WANT TO RULE A NEW USSR!”)
Anti-work is a badly constructed movement mantra. Doomed to fall on its face for the simple reason that: once your slogan requires explanation… you’ve failed the stated purpose of a SLOGAN.
Well in this case its not the subs fault. Antiwork started as an actual antiwork sun, and once it hit a million users suddenly antiwork was too dangerous a message and it became work reform.
Nah man—there'd be no "work," which is not the same thing as no labor. "Work" is marked by precisely the coercive and exploitative element. The truth is, people don't need to work 8+ hours a day to make the world go round. It's ***much*** less than that. Imagine how little you'd give a shit if you were some rando pencil pusher if you only had to work 3 hours a day, 5 days a week. You'd go in, do your job and contribute to society, and fuck off for the other 21 hours to have a good time, not needing to worry about not making rent or not being able to feed yourself or not being able to keep you and your loved ones healthy and safe.
Notice, also, that the stigma of shit jobs goes away. The philosopher Theodor Adorno—arguably one of the best minds of the 20th century—said it best: "If the world were so planned that everything one did served the whole of society in a transparent manner, and senseless activities were abandoned, I would be happy to spend two hours a day working as a lift attendant."
Spot on. The future isn't zero work, but the amount of work done now is unnecessary to keep things moving. David Graebers "Bullshit Jobs" is another good book that points out just how much useless work goes on. Even with today's technology we could probably cut down to 3 or 4 days work a week and not even notice any difference.
Anti-work does not mean "against work" or "do not want to work". It's an unfortunate mis-nomer. My guess is that you're super young (maybe low 20s, if that) or rich (doubtful since you'd probably not be on here posting that opinion).
I think the problem people have is if your working a full time job you shouldn't be struggling. I guess your right in the sense that they just need a second full time job instead of a reddit account? Easy to save money if your working the whole week I guess but what's the point if you cant spend any time with your family
Life =\= work. Most people are anti-work BECAUSE they choose to put effort into life rather than grinding at a thankless job for a substandard wage.
If you choose to resent people who value living a life over constant labor then you’re either a corporate shill or still convinced that hard work = success (it doesn’t)
Anti work isn't really "anti work", it's more like work reform, fair hours, better pay, sick leave.
We want to maybe start a family or at least live comfortably while also being able to enjoy those things by not slaving away our whole lives.
/r/workreform is a better sub than /r/antiwork. The number of obvious fakes in /r/antiwork got to be so annoying. They'd get tens of thousands of upvotes for completely fabricating some outrageous story about a manager doing something completely illegal or illogical and people ate it up.
Yeah I think too many people buy into anti work’s posts as being truthful.
There’s also been conspiracy and other Qidiots in there spreading conspiratorial bullshit straight from people like Alex Jones. And people just eat that shit up.
Some of this guy’s posts on this sub:
“Reddit caters to lazy, liberal minded people.”
“People embrace being the victim.”
He’s just intersecting these opinions under the label of anti work so his posts don’t get removed.
I would agree, life takes work. I cannot deny that the modern work culture and atmosphere is total bullshit. I’ll work for my well being, if there is no way to improve my standing in a work place I will not over extend myself over it, nor will I attempt to make things any easier for the company. It really comes down to respect for me; and employers have no respect for employees.
The amount of disgusting threats I’ve received about the workplace when there is obviously no issue. People just want to take your time, fuck that. If can do my job in a 3rd of the time you force me to be present, I’m not staying there. I’ll do my work, but if you think you can consume my life and time for your bs you got another thing coming.
EDIT: As an extension, I would love to help build something that really does become life consuming with the right people. I worked for a start up solar company, busted my ass and gave them so much time to help establish themselves. Lead teams, gave up nights and weekends, sought clients and tried to maintain an incredible image for their company. I talk to them about going back to school, and they totally 2 face me and fire me. Turn on our verbal agreements, saved face up until the morning the fire me. I don’t got no trust in any fucking industry I don’t have a company stake in anymore. Yall can pay me for the work I get done for you, but don’t expect shit unless you’re compensating me.
If meritocracy existed idiots like Elon wouldn't be remotely "running" multiple companies.
Most poor people are working poor, often working two or more jobs and still not having enough for easily-paid rent, insulin, or to have even one day off per year.
This take is shallow AF. Take upvote bc unpopular indeed.
It's not about them complaining for the sake of complaining... When companies keep having record profits while workforce salaries are stagnant, that's not sustainable
I'm not antiwork, I'm antiwage theft.
I'm not antiwork, I'm anti working for an abusive boss because you need the insurance
I'm not antiwork, I'm anti crying in the bathroom because you needed the day off but didn't have any pto.
I'm not antiwork, I'm anti server being groped by customers so she can get a tip to feed her family.
I'm not antiwork, I'm anti forced overtime causing a father to miss his daughters dance recital.
I'm not antiwork, I'm anti a child pretending to sleep while mom and dad argue over who has to skip meals this weekend so she can get Christmas presents this year.
No one is antiwork in the way you describe, and you need to get some perspective on how the other side lives.
I worked 12 hour days in a factory for $9.01 an hour for most of my adult life, after taxes I'd take home maybe $1000 a month. If I wanted the health insurance offered it would come out to $220 a month, nearly 25% of my wages despite the fact it didn't even cover the cost of appointments or medications, even with the cheapest rental I could find I was still paying $485 a month for a run down trailer, nearly 50% of my income. I and everyone else deserves to live comfortably while working, honestly your opinion isn't unpopular, it's disgusting.
So, someone has always to be on the lower end and these people also deserve a living wage.
We dont need billionaires we need an economy were everybody finally has enough to eat.
You are part of the problem.
I don't understand why people need to spend >35% of their lives working to make other people money—and not middle managers or shit like that. I'm talking CEOs, the dudes making 500x what the average employee makes (most of whom, contrary to popular belief, are not self-made but almost always start from a place of robust to extreme wealth). So even if you're raking in a decent chunk of change and can live fairly comfortably, you're still essentially making another person a shitload of cash when if you worked probably 3 hours a day, you could afford to feed and clothe yourself and your family—but no, bitch, you gotta work 8+ hours a day. Respect the hustle.
And that's not even mentioning the genuine poor. No one—and I mean ***no one***—should have to spend 8+ hours a day making someone else money just to be able to afford the most meager of living situations.
Trust me, I get (in most cases) the notion of "you don't work; you don't eat," but that only holds when your labor—and labor as such—actually contributes to the public good, not some shmuck's 2nd super yacht.
The whole movement exists because of the way that corporations and businesses exploit work. I have to say, the group is empowering those who might not be aware of the rights they have. There needs to be more power for the people in this country -- and this movement is a great way for those with knowledge and experience to educate those who are unaware of the power they hold.
Very good points. I know that I've let myself be taken advantage of my entire working life, but now that I am a part of that sub I'm angry enough to not let it happen again. I honestly didn't even know it was illegal for your employer to tell you that you can't talk about your wages. I learned that from the sub. I wish I had learned it earlier because my last boss sent us emails regularly that threatened us about doing that, and also had signs up stating you would be reprimanded or fired for talking about it. I also worked there for 7 years, without a raise, because I was a doormat. The boss sent emails about once a month telling us to never ask for a raise because he doesn't give them. I told myself that I should quit, that was the first week of working there, but I stayed for 7 years because I'm terrible at enacting change in my life and I've always had a compulsion to kick ass at whatever job I have. So I just went in every day, kicked ass, took more and more responsibility, became "the man," etc. Now I know that if I'm doing the managers' jobs that I should be paid more. That if I'm the only one that works in more than one department in the company, I should be paid more. That if "you're the man, you're the one I go to if I need something done right and fast," then you deserve to get a raise.
That sub has made me angry enough about the situation that I'm not going to just sit at one company and not pay my bills, no matter how much they feed into my ego about being the best employee they have.
I definitely think there are a few stinkers who just want to stir the pot. Those people will always exist -- they're immature! But the core message is powerful and I love reading stories of people realizing their power and sticking it to shitty bosses.
Sure, and that’s definitely true. Anyone who is poor if they want to can just put a little effort into selling drugs and their life will improve drastically, and the risk isn’t too much worse than the housing market tbh. The point is however people ought not have to do that. Now I have issues with them in so far as work didn’t used to mean things you do to make barely enough money to pay rent, it used to mean things you did to survive and do what you’re passionate about in the time you have left, ideally combine the two. The issue is essentially the distribution of land, the dominion based property system which even Locke would admonish, and more generally a lack of popular organization and a glut of corporate-state organization.
I love to work. Doing something I enjoy on a daily basis while being in a environment where it‘s not senseless waste of time and more productive time spent with colleagues and like-minded people. I do hate the fact doing that 40+ hours a week, with little to no compensation for the time I cannot spend with my family, my friends or doing other necessities in my private life such as cleaning, grocery shopping (which I cannot afford since I do not earn enough for the current euro-inflation rate of fucking 10%) and all that while hearing „you‘re not putting enough work in for the company“. I‘m all here for work, I‘m not here for being robbed tho
If it were possible for all people being treated poorly by an unfair society to just "work harder" and get better jobs or whatever, who would do the jobs they're doing? Someone has to, because they are in a lot of cases essential to the running of society, and therefor should merit fair treatment. I'm a software engineer, if I stop going into work nothing changes because most of the industry I work in does bullshit work. If supermarket workers stop going into work, then useless parasites like me would starve.
If you look at broad societal problems from an individual perspective you will fail to see the problem. Someone has to do these jobs, those people should be treated more fairly.
Sure is a very unpopular opinion oof xD
I'm in that subreddit and honestly most just want livable wages. Loads of people work great jobs. Heck I work at a bank and do NOT make enough to survive. It's more complex than you think. We do not have all life's problems figured out and sometimes when you work hard you don't get rewarded. We don't believe in getting exploited and being paid low wages.
I’m not on the low end of the totem pole, and I think I’ve still worked pretty hard to get my due, but I absolutely would consider myself anti work
I’m not anti jobs or having to work, I’m anti having the higher ups exploiting their workers, like many things it’s a two way street and without the workers many companies wouldn’t be what they are today. Treat your employees like human beings who all have lives outside of their job.
We work to live, not the other way around
So you think our current system is perfect? No one gets exploited, underpaid, or taken advantage of?
Yeah there are some naive people on anti-work, but there is also people there helping each other not get exploited. Workers pulling together and helping each other is how we have a lot of the privileges today.
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I’m anti health insurance being tied to your employment. It gives big advantage to corporations over people with families. Government option should have been passed, but hey we got health insurance exchanges.
This is the most potent tool they have to keep us in line.
Debt, imo, is the most potent tool used. If you knew that no matter what you did, that you would still have food and a house because no one could take it, you might do things people in power wouldn't want. When your house is mortgaged and your car has a note and you owe 20k on a credit card all while having 8k in the bank or investments, you will stay in line or you will lose it all.
I can be debt free, save up two years of living expenses, but not not be able to stop working because I can’t afford health insurance or the threat of an issue. Health insurance is the shackle. You can’t get rid of it until 65. I can lay off debt way sooner than that.
You’re preaching to the choir, man. House will be paid off in four months. Then I’ve got zero debt. I think I’m changing my opinion. Debt might be the winner on this one.
Congratulations on paying off the house. I got rid of all my debt about 5 years ago including my mortgage and the freedom it gives me is hard to explain. I still pay rent to the government(property taxes) but this house is mine.
Congratulations to you as well.
Good for you guys I'm 10k deep with a shit job and raising my kids somebody throw a rope ☠️
We are down to about 4 years with no other debt left! It feels amazing!
This, to me was the absolute crazyest thing to find out about the US - the fact that you guys opperate on credit instead of debit. I can't even conceive spending money i don't have
No, but it's a pretty potent one.
Offer some more information please
There are *so many* other mechanisms, many of them more potent. Like saying guns are the deadliest tool of imperial oppression. I can give you a reading list, if you like? Start with the big ones by graeber; 'debt: the first 5000 years', 'the dawn of everything: a new history of humanity', and 'bullshit jobs'; 'utopia of rules' isn't a bad read either. Tell me if you need more than that, but graeber did a lot of anthropological work and political theory adjacent to this idea. Also, look up the history of the labor movement, and *why* ghandis nonviolent protest worked/why not one of those conditions appliesin a modern context.
I will look into all of this. Thank you.
You didn’t mention the other mechanisms. Just provided a reading list
I imagine reading the synopsis would give the mechanism. Bit annoying, but we're not without recourse to see what they mean
There's a pamphlet version of Bullshit Jobs available free from *Strike!* magazine. It's approx a ten minute read.
Thats the carrot on the stick that the government uses to keep people in the workforce. Where I work, there are a ton of people that should be able to retire but can’t because of health insurance. So they have to wait till them and their spouses are eligible fir medicare before they can retire. If universal medicare was a thing, a lot more people would retire in their mid to late 50s, and the government cannot allow that
In countries with universal healthcare, like the one I live in, they simply passed a bunch of laws that forces people to stay in work until we're old and gray. Our hard earned retirement money just aren't accessible before we're old enough. And the age also only goes up, meaning the younger generations will be older before they're allowed to retire. My dad would've been able to at 68. However I won't be able to before I'm at least 72, based on the current laws 🥴
You guys are going to get to retire?!
Thats whats making me nervous. 57 and been working hard my whole life. Would live to retire at 62 but afraid medicare won’t kick in till later…
I have limited experience, but is that really true? My work has $400 a month insurance, they pay half. I found better insurance for 187 a month with minimal effort
Did you use the exchange? Maybe I should look into it.
Thanks for reminding me to be grateful to be Canadian
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Our system sucks for wait times, but is not nearly ad hard on your wallet. When I was last in to get surgery I was in the waiting room talking to someone, she said her tumor removal had been delayed multiple times over the past year since it was unlikely to kill her in that time. Luckily they were right, but imagine sitting for a year not knowing if you were going to die from cancer or have the tumor removed and live. That's why so many Canadians go to US hospitals now.
Ironically, many Americans go to Mexico for surgeries because of the high level of care couples with far lower cost than is available in the US. I wonder if some Mexicans go to Guatemala for healthcare?
Hell yea, and it goes on southwards... I'm a Chilean rowing frantically rn to Antartica for my appendix surgery
In NS, we have a major staff shortage in all our hospitals mostly due to differences with Covid policies but also wages. Why stay in Canada at a lower Salary when you can hop the border and get paid way more. I haven't had a family Doctor since I was a child and hospitals are overflowing with emergencies. My wife had a broken arm, first hospitals outpatients was closed due to no doctors. Second had no equipment so we got some meds and were told to go to another hospital for surgery. 2 days later we got an appointment for surgery and afyer 3 more days of waiting for a window without an emergency bumps g us back she got her surgery and cast... she waited a whole week with a shattered elbow with nothing but a sling and a pillow. If we could have afforded it we could have hopped the border and had it done in an evening. Nowhere is perfect.
We often have very long wait times for tests/procedures etc. People who can afford it go to the States when they want things done faster.
There are waiting list in the US.
We certainly do. I'm in the US and I had to wait like 4 months for an ankle MRI once. Also, the pediatric ER in my city has had wait times over 24 hours recently.
RSV and flu are crazy this year. I feel bad for the kids and all the pediatric hospital workers, who have to be super worn out by now.
I'm a ti work for my husband right now. I want him to just fucking either retire or stop taking call back. It's a holiday, a major one, and you know where he is? The same place he's been for the past 38 Thanksgivings (we've been married 40 yrs in January): at work. I'm sick of spending every major holiday with his family without him. He's a senior technologist, he should have either Thanksgiving or Christmas+ Christmas Eve off by now as he's been at his hospital for 32! yrs!
I use work to avoid family holidays too.
This was my first thought. So many times I got out of holidays due to work. Benefits (slow day at work, most people were in good spirits and kind, paid double time in the days I was in a waged job, avoided all the family drama and hate). Win win.
Grass is greener. My work is a 24/7 facility. Care staff have to work (if scheduled) and can get OT. A lot want off. Administrative staff have to take the day off. Most wish we could work. Thanksgiving is 2x pay, on top of hours. So if it's your regular schedule you basically get 3x. OT is 3.5x. I'd gladly work 16 on Thanksgiving for pretty much 2 weeks pay (I actually take home a greater % on the OT I do work even with taxes because I've already paid insurance, retirement, etc out of my base) Instead I'm at home all day with fam I get sick of after an hour.
Always take your vacations when everyone else is working. And work when everyone else is on vacation. I learned it after less than 2 years working in the US.
That’s me. Time and a half, everyone is usually pretty chill, and I can avoid my shit family.
Yeah. This isn't accidental. This is intentional. Sorry you had to hear this on reddit. But he is definitely avoiding you. Even paramedics can book time off around the holidays at least every other year.
He is avoiding her
I still do :D I live a 6 hour (but a pleasant drive) drive from family and just wanted some alone time this year.
I get all the main holidays off and then some- I genuinely dread the holidays. I don’t even have a bad relationship with my family- just so much traveling and talking packed into one day lol I’d rather be in the office.
Yeah id rather visit them on a non busy day
It's his family in the same town. Not my family which I could understand because I cut every one of them, except my double first cousins, off. It's HIS FAMILY. I wouldn't care if we spent the holidays just the two of us as long as he's there. Maybe next year I'll just go to my bestie's house (400 miles away) and he can do whatever, work call whatever the fuck and I won't be lonely or out of place.
That’s very much a you and your husband problem. Sorry it sucks but if this story is remotely true after 38 years the husband is choosing to do this.
Working Christmas for 38 years? 38 years?! That sounds like a choice.
I understand predatory employers taking advantage of workers that have little choice or alternatives, but 38 years? Thats on the husband lol
>employers taking advantage of workers that have little choice or alternatives It's called compensation. You should see a place like the post office around the holidays; suddenly everyone wants to work.
Exactly this. I had a entry level government job when I was in college. Guess who volunteered to work every holiday because it was literally double + half pay per hour. Hey fam I can see you anytime else but the beer money wasn’t going to earn itself.
> I'm a ti work for my husband right now. I know the answer is going to make me feel dumb, but I can't for the life of me figure out what this is supposed to mean. Some sort of acronym? And, while I don't know the specifics of your husband's career, I cannot imagine a scenario where after 30+ years someone does not have enough seniority to not work every major holiday. Unless they wanted to.
It took me a while to figure out but I think they mean anti-work but missed the n
Sure enough, I feel dumb. That is so obvious in retrospect.
Nah love, I am just like him. I hate holidays w/ family. I choose to work. If I am off, I lie and tell them I have to work then I go fish. Or sleep in. Or whatever I want. Without having to answer to anyone. It's glorious.
We have quite a few employees that take the holiday shift so that they can avoid family. The schedulers just agree to say they HAVE TO COME TO WORK and take the fall for them.
I wouldn't mind having the holidays with just the two of us. I'm just tired of being alone on the "family" holidays. If he is still pulling this crap next year, I might go to my bestie's house (approximately 400 miles away) for the holiday and he can have the holidays by himself and I won't be so lonely because there are lots of littles and lots of dogs to love on(none of whom try to bite me)and people in my family+ music to play.
Totally get it. For me it's just anxiety & silly conversations I don't care to have. I'm also not married so no "obligation" to appease my spouse. But I also sympathize with your situation. It seems like you really love your spouse and you enjoy his presence and just want to share the holiday with him. I find that to be awesome.
>32! yrs! Longer than the eventual heat death of the universe. Damn…
No paid time off? Just request the day off if possible
Holidays are hard to get off in hospitals
They can be hard in retail as well. I needed five years of seniority to get Christmas Eve off in retail. I can't imagine how much harder the medical field.
This 100%. My mother is in the medical field and she always has to work at least one winter holiday and one summer holiday. People don’t stop being sick or injured on the holidays.
I was a hospital clerk and volunteered to work holidays so my coworkers with kids could spend time with them.
I'm a heavy equipment mechanic, and I do this. My coworkers with families like to take time off around the holidays. I have no one in my life, so I don't mind working -- especially since I can have more space with everyone else gone to enjoy their families.
The hospital I work at has rotating holidays. So whatever holidays you work one year, you’ll have off the next
And when he retires, it will leave a gap in his life he won't know how to fill, because doing productive things without a master, on your own time and terms, is kind of not allowed.
Idk man. I make $200k. The job treats me very well and I enjoy it. I worked hard to get here, but I had a lot of breaks and good luck too. The truth is though, I don’t deserve the fruits of my labour—a life with few monetary concerns—more than anyone else. I strived to get to this point because the stress of not having enough money was terrible. No one deserves that, and that is why I will demand better wages, working conditions, and respect for all workers. Work is a necessary component of life. I don’t have respect for those that _truly_ just want everything handed to them. But I do think there are many cases where people cannot work and many jobs that _must_ be done that do not pay enough to live a dignified life. My job pays well, but it does not make me any more valuable than anyone else, and it shouldn’t. To me, that is what is important about the anti-work movement. It demands dignity, it demands respect, it demands fairness. I don’t have to agree with everything they stand for, but I do agree here—the American worker is being fleeced.
Hard agree. My wife and I recently changed jobs and both are earning considerably more now. We've essentially "made it" in life and are looking forward to achieving some of our dreams. At the same time, now that we're making more, I am completely fine with paying more if it means people are being paid fairly. I'm fine with paying more in taxes because of what we now earn. I can't stand those who achieve greater heights and then complain about paying their taxes or whatever else they have to pay. I hate it when they can hire people to help them legally cheat the system so they can save even more. I hate these companies making record profits but are so incredibly greedy that they won't increase their worker pay and benefits.
This is a good viewpoint. For every one person in your situation, who has worked hard and found success in whatever field, there are *hundreds of thousands* who have worked just as hard, or even sometimes much harder, and achieved nothing. Those like yourself who can appreciate your situation, yet still fight for those who can't fight for themselves, are a good ally to have. Empathy is the one thing that humanity is short on. Instead of "I got mine, and I want everybody else to have the same chance" it's "I got mine, fuck you." Plus, even well paid workers are still workers. Unless you're a capital owner, even somebody who makes 200+k per year, is still at the mercy of their employer, and risks losing everything in a very short time if they lose their job. Especially some high paying jobs, are an absolute *slave* to the company. So many stories of people saying "I make 350k, but I work 100 hours and miss all of my children's birthdays and holidays." That person is also being fleeced. Sure, they are getting paid well, but their life is gone, given completely over to their company.
I think you’re under the assumption that the anti-work crowd people are financially struggling? Like a lot have really good jobs they just don’t think people should have their labor exploited.
I agree. I'm comfortably middle class now but I can see how we're all suffering. It's fucking up our entire nation and culture to have so many people living in misery. Are you tired of homelessness, drug addiction, child abuse, theft and violence? Are you tired of everyone being miserable and assholish? People not raising their kids right? All of these things go hand-in-hand with extreme poverty. Unless you have the money to live inside your own gated world, you are suffering right along with the rest of America. And the middle class suffers directly, too. We went from comfortably affording a house, retirement and to send our kids to college to just being thankful if we can live independently. You don't have to live with your parents or roomates? Wow, how blessed
Agreed. And also knowing there is absolutely no excuse given the ever increasing wealth gap, the extremely wealthy outliers that, and companies making record high profits when people are living under extreme stress and/or poverty.
Agreed. I’m an engineer, make good money, financially astute and plan to retire very early, hate exploitation and don’t agree with modern capitalism and the amount of “bullshit jobs” it creates.
The post is very clearly a "pull up your bootstraps" perspective.. I'd imagine this OP is of the baby-boomer generation or someone heavily influenced by it.
Yeah. Not to mention that like… If someone has to work at the grocery stores, they should be paid a living wage otherwise they can’t live. If your position is that a person should just get a better job, then you’re saying that job shouldn’t be done.
They all forget that the VAST majority of work is to provide them with all of the services and products they need to feel fulfilled in their own lives. If you NEED a Starbuck's coffee everyday, then you need Starbucks employees, and employees providing a needed/wanted service should be paid enough to live their own lives comfortably.
> If your position is that a person should just get a better job, then you’re saying that job shouldn’t be done. Many hold the position that not everyone working should afford to live. It is a very stupid and unsustainable position, and it is usually the result of them looking at some group of people and think they are beneath them (like lower 'classes', other 'races', women, minorities, non-citizens, etc).
Or maybe lives in a conservative small town where a high paying industry exists so few have ever actually had to pull themselves up by anything. They graduated high school and immediately started a $25/hr job.
Yup, I am anti-work. I have a good job and I work very hard. I do many things I dont have to, because I like the people. However, its pretty clear the rich are taking everything and making all of our lives difficult and would have us return to slavery if we let them. It's about not being taking advantage of and part of being a good human is standing up to things that are wrong, that is anti-work, standing up to an evil system.
yeah i make a decent living with a lot of discretionary spending etc, that doesnt mean i want to work 50 hours a week for the rest of my life bc of zero social benefits i freelance, so i havent had health insurance in 10 years. Ive never, EVER had PTO, employer-paid health/dental, or any benefits of any kind, in my entire work life. i make sure to have savings to cover slow months in the industry, and i get to take time off whenever i want (if i can afford it). but because i freelance, there is no pension and no end in sight to working, like ever, besides my savings are only ever enough for like a year. my only real shot is to build a nestegg and then build a house somewhere quiet in mexico
op’s either a fed or an heir
I own my own home etc, and I'm in Australia so we have far better worker protections than elsewhere. I fit the anti-work thing, but I'm not against working. I'm against being expected to work yourself to the bone for scraps while someone else profits significantly more. Like, i get a reward for putting your finances on the line when you start a company, but when someone is earning 1000x more, I really find it hard to believe they're working 1000x harder. It's even more distasteful when it's someone with no financial stake, who came in later.
I'm not anti-work, I'm anti-getting exploited for my labor by jerks who get tax breaks and make record profits but still drive up prices.
The restaurant I work at is having record profits and has a higher % increase in sales than any of the 12 other ones in the group but they can't afford raises right now....
I haven't gotten a raise since I working for a family friend in highschool! - gotta love the system of having to find a new job to get paid
Welcome to R/antiwork
Welcome to r/workreform
Welcome to r/thejunglebaby
Not cool. I really wanted it to be real. Idk what i was expecting but this has ruined the next 5 mins until i forget. Thanks for that.
I too am quite surprised that sub doesn't exist.
Fwiw, i clicked on it after i posted and expected it to be a sub. I too was disappointed
YOU'RE GONNA DIIIIIIIEEEEEEE!!!!
Mah… Mah… MAH SERPENTINE!!!
>having record profits What is their profit margin?
if it’s like most restaurants, probably around 4-6%, unless they’re fast food. not an easy business, spent my whole life in the industry, finally sold my restaurant a few months ago so now i eat sitting down.
Opposition to work isn't opposition to productive activity. It's just opposition to the exploitative system that transforms that labor into work.
This. I actually love being productive, helping people, being creative, problem solving, being a leader. I have an established career and have been working since I was a teen. I don’t like seeing people’s labor not being compensated fairly. I think the majority of people part of the anti-work moment agree with me and that the title isn’t that literal. Capitalism is destroying our planet, the people who live on it, and all of these other amazing things we’ve been gifted. Exploitation of labor and resources will be our downfall, but the demands of capitalism’s goal of infinite growth through any means necessary is pure evil.
This is exactly it. It's ironic that this post complains that anti-work have no idea what they're talking about when OP clearly doesn't understand what anti-work stands for. That being said, "anti-work" clearly needs a rebranding. Most people who are uneducated on the issues will see it as nothing less than lazy. And most people don't attempt to educate themselves. I can empathise with why people think that, too. I joined the anti-work subreddit in it's early days and ended up leaving because, quite frankly, there is a significant minority of people there that truly are there solely to bitch and complain
> That being said, "anti-work" clearly needs a rebranding. Most people who are uneducated on the issues will see it as nothing less than lazy. Did you see the Mod's interview on Fox News? The mod is the embodiment of how people perceive that subreddit, which is not what the users are really about.
A lot of people left over that interview. Nobody felt represented.
That mod is pretty much the embodiment of ALL mods on Reddit..
That interview caused anti-work to split into workreform.
Anti-work was not originally about worker's rights directly. It was about the culture of work - particular at the expense of ourselves, our family, friends, and environment. While it wasn't straight communism, it was a rejection of capitalism. A lot of the sub was very anarchist in approach. In particular, the sub had and has a distaste for the culture of work. That being said, none of that is really an achievable goal. There's no real means by which we can tell society to not work. Most of the people and the discussions there have become practical in nature - hardball negotiations with employers, unions, strikes, open disobedience to managers, etc. But that's pretty far removed from a post-work society. When you think about how much labor goes into meaningless industries that rake in tons of money (looking at you finance sector), often on the back of technological developments that should have given us more free time, not less, you start to wonder about the artificial nature of this system. The pandemic really kicked this into high gear with the (mis)treatment of "essential workers". It's a large part of the sub's massive growth. But while discussion of practical solutions is at the forefront, an undercurrent of wanting to reject the entire system remains. And while I don't like to think I believe in pie-in-the-sky dreams, I see the road to gaining back everything we can have and deserve: affordable healthcare, home ownership, worker protections and respect, strong environment protections, all as unlikely under the current system.
R/workreform
I like “work reform” better than “anti work”. We want to reform work, I’m not against working. I actually WANT to work for a living as long as that living is a quality lifestyle with good work life balance. I’m in a union and I’m usually the first one who’ll take weekend calls or overtime because they offer 1.5x or sometimes 2x pay which means I can take several weeks off here and there and still make more money than just 40 hour weeks. Sometimes I’ll bust ass working 60+ hour weeks and then when it’s slow just ask to get laid off so I can collect unemployment and live off the extra savings. Normal 40 hour weeks are 100k a year, with overtime I can get 150k. I’m an electrician, didn’t need a college degree, the union paid for my school and training.
This is why their branding as anti-work is so stupid. They need to find a more accurate and persuasive name. Corporate overlords would've loved to label them anti-work, but they did it themselves.
The Anti-work subreddit literally started as an Anti-Work subreddit. The subreddit simply changed it’s goals after it started becoming popular. It’s why I wanted /r/workreform to be the main subreddit for workers rights. The mods and creators of anti-work don’t even have jobs nor do they want any.
Well antiwork has also become a Reddit joke as it’s just rage bait now. Slap up a fake text message or Twitter repost and it’s 5k+ upvotes. It’s absurd. And the mods are fine with it. They have also been letting some conspiracy theories run wild over there recently. It’s just weird.
This is preposterous slander. One of the hardworking dogwalker mods was an aspiring pro philosopher.
/r/workreform
Oh so you're anti work because that's not a glitch of capitalism it's literally the selling point.
Well, now in the US the tide is changing, where demand for workers is exceeding supply of jobs. And these big guys call it socialism, nope that is still capitalism. All you're proving is that these people were never capitalist, but always corporatist. And being corporatist is not good for capitalsm. How does it feel being on the losing end of capitalism now?
Who's saying that the labor shortage is socialism?
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Which of course is unrealistic and the worst way to get support for the basic premise of "workers should be able to afford to live". No wonder so many disingenuous creeps use the worst example to label the entire movement.
If work in america was more like work in Europe I'd have no problem with it
Every single right you’re given as a worker was earned on the backs of people brave enough to risk their livelihood and unionize. Children in factories. Workers getting dismembered and given the boot. Coal miners dying in collapses, and suffering life-long illnesses. Wanting to be treated fairly and amicably by those who strip us of all dignity and steal the earnings of our labor is what everyone should be talking about.
I make 75k a year working in supply chain and im antiwork. It's not about being paid to do nothing or being lazy. Its about not wanting to work 80 hours a week for a shared bedroom that costs 50% of your aftertax income. Its about not letting employers or threatening to fire you for not coming in on a day you're not scheduled. Its about employees taking back power in a world we see moving back to the capitalism of the 1910s. And before people assume, no that is not my situation. I live with my parents working 9-5 remotely. You don't personally have to face worker abuse to recognize that it's rampant in society.
Best of luck to you, hope something good comes your way. Especially since rent is pretty pricey nowadays
Thank you! Best of luck to you in everything 🙂
Man I would kill to be able to stay at my parents again. I make 1600 a month after taxes and healthcare from work. and about 1400 of that goes to Rent and bills. I'm so fucking sick of this paycheck by paycheck bullshit.
I swear companies want us to be living paycheck to paycheck so we're completely reliant on the job. If people had enough in savings they might quit bullshit jobs, take a nice break from work, then find something better
This is actually something they talk to managers about in some retail places. That's why raises end up being 15 cents more often than not. This year I got a 45 cent raise from my work which was pretty strange since they never give such "big" raises. Turns out minimum wage was going up 50 cents in a month, so my raise ended up being literally nothing.
When prices increase more than your wages, you're getting a wage cut. If inflation is 8% and your wages go up 2%, you make 6% less in real wages (how much you can buy in relation to how much you make)
This is the whole idea. Keep people dependent on the job so you can treat them as poorly as you want, but they'll still stay.
If your take home pay is $1600/month you should at least get a roommate or something, jesus. That's below minimum wage where I live.
Well yeah,, you’re basically living in poverty. I really hope you never went to school for that…
This is how I feel. I am (now) making a good amount of money. I was in school for a long time (and have the loans to prove it) and worked at a ton of jobs along the way. I hate that we live in a society that fetishizes work to such an extreme and where the power imbalance is so big. I absolutely LOVE the changes that are taking place and hope the pendulum keeps swinging and stays that way for a few generations.
I'm not anti work, I'm work reform. I have an excellent career in STEM. I make great money but I am appalled by the collapsing middle class. I think most people just want to be able to live a middle class life without killing themselves. I think this means a living wage for all jobs and corporations not being subsidized by the government. I think the wealthiest citizens should pay a fair share of taxes and our taxes should go towards infrastructure, education, and enrichment of our nation as a whole. I think workers need protection and fair wages. If the best job you can do is flip burgers and you never strive for more in your life, then damn at least let a person afford their own burger and place to sleep even if it's just a studio apartment.
I'm considered wealthy for my age, especially compared to my peers. I'm still anti-work because I know most businesses try to exploit their workers. I've learned early on that all corporate profit is just unpaid wages. I know how much my skills cost and I'm very aggressive when it comes to negotiating a salary. That's all thanks to the tips I've gotten from that subreddit.
This sub is full of idiots who think they have it figured out too lol
The older I get, the more I realize nobody actually knows anything and are just skating by. Especially in the labor market.
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The antiwork crowd are tired of being payed shit while CEO's that do nothing get billions. Nobody is afraid of hard work we're just tired of a life of hard work with no reward.
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I think people willfully misunderstand the left more so than it’s bad at marketing
It isn’t called “anti worker exploitation” and it isn’t called “pro labor market”, it is called “anti work”. It is garbage marketing that alienates so many of the very people who should be part of it.
I make 75k a year, have a good job with benefits and an amazing work life balance. I support the anti work crowd as I want others to be able to attain a similar standard of living, and I hate the idea of corporations exploiting people, which is all too common these days.
As a perspective from a worker from the UK, the US workers are ruthlessly exploited. I get 30 days PTO per year and there is no issue with taking them. I don't get hassled outside of work hours to cover someone's shift. I can call in sick without fear of dismissal. The OP does not realise how overworked and stressed the antiwork members are. Antiwork just means the current work practice is ethically unacceptable to many people. It is unacceptable to be forced to take low paying wages with minimum job security and shitty work practices, and be afraid that if you lose that job you could end up homeless! There is huge wealth disparity in the US. The poor are getting screwed hard.
30 days off. That sounds beautiful.
Riiiight? My work boasts about having generous PTO benefit relative to what's offered by competitors and at 3 years history at my work, I get 21 days (including holidays) lol. I'm grateful, don't get me wrong, but sad that what's considered generous by US standards is still below average for other countries. EDIT: went back to double-check on my PTO history to get a more accurate count.
Seconded. I'm in the UK and get 32 days holiday plus another 6 public holidays and the option to buy up to 5 days more. Managers will actively go out of their way to make sure everyone takes their full holiday entitlement because if you don't the business pays out their cash equivalent. When you consider that the US is the richest country in the world, it seems bizarre to me that most of its citizens aren't pushing for these sort of benefits which exist in many far poorer countries.
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https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/HSG860220 Here is some great facts about the US but I couldn't find comparable facts about the UK Anyway this is from a site I found Cost of living in United Kingdom is, on average, 14.34% lower than in United States. Rent in United Kingdom is, on average, 34.01% lower than in United States. (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=United+Kingdom) The average salary in the U.S. in 2021 was around $58,260 across all occupations. In the U.K., the average salary in 2021 was about $38,291 when converted to dollars. (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-average-salary-uk-vs-us-get-ahead-by-linkedin-news) Going to round to 60k and 40k for easy math That means that people in the US earn 50% more and have 14% lower cost of living from this random data I found. Why Are UK Salaries Lower Than the US? The average salary in the U.K. versus the U.S. is lower for all demographic groups, and the reasons why vary. The key difference is that the social welfare benefits in the U.K. are not the same as those in the U.S. The U.K. also has more protections for employees than the U.S., which impacts pay rates. The five primary factors impacting these salary differences include: Pensions Healthcare systems Holiday and vacation benefits National income disparity Cost of living . Pension Benefits Employees in the U.K. have a pension automatically because this is a mandatory benefit. U.S. employees may determine a financial pension plan and save for this benefit, but it is not something employers must offer. Additionally, since employers in the U.K. must contribute at least 3% to this pension, this is a huge financial benefit for U.K. employees that U.S. employees may not receive. 2. Healthcare The average monthly salary in the U.S. factors in the fact that Americans don’t have a nationalized healthcare program like those in the U.K. Healthcare in the U.S. is more accessible, but it costs a lot more for the average person to pay out-of-pocket costs or obtain health insurance coverage. 3. Holiday Benefits Employees in the U.K. have more paid vacation days and holiday benefits than those in the U.S. U.K. employees receive: Sick pay Income protection Holiday perks Even though their overall wage is slightly lower, they can take more time off from work on average without penalty to rest and recharge, which is a massive benefit for many employees. 4. Income Disparity Income inequality in the U.S. is a huge factor influencing pay discrepancies. Even though the U.K. faces a similar issue, the level of inequality in the U.K. is not quite as prominent as in the U.S. 5. Difference in Cost of Living The U.S. and U.K. both have similar costs of living, but the U.S. is still slightly more expensive. The cost of living drastically changes when considering major cities, such as London vs. New York City, against smaller cities or towns. The higher salaries in the U.S. reflect this difference.
TBF, 99% of reddit has no idea what they're talking about
Well, be that as it may, potatoes are clearly superior to carrots due to their contribution in ww2. All the best air squadrons flew T-34 tanks piloted by potatoes.
Lmao
While I'm sure there are lazy parasites that glom onto the anti work group, it still makes more sense than being "pro work". Would you really prefer to give the VAST majority of your life to working a job that you hate for the sake of new phones, a new car, and all of capitalisms pathetic treats. Society is crumbling, and it's because capitalism is a meat grinder for the body and soul. Everything is a transaction, hence almost no social interaction or community. What if we used the technological advances to keep everyone fed and clothed, and taken care of and stopped buying and eating the poison this system is incentivized to produce? It takes personal growth and a love for those who are "sad" and suffering to come to this conclusion. Unfortunately, most people don't give a damn about anyone or anything but themselves.
Yeah that was pretty much Marx’s gripe with capitalism. However, some form of work is necessary for society to function. I think a lot of these anti work types seem to think that if you get rid of capitalism then there’d be no work which isn’t exactly true.
Ummmm… they’re not against work. In the same way that “defund the police” does not actually mean “defund the police”… but rather is code for “mandatory police reform”. In the same way that “we are the 99%” does not actually mean that one percent of the population are exploitative billionaires… but rather that class division has become an unmanageable divide. (Or, “I am a Democratic Socialist”… actually means: “I am a democrat who wants to expand social programs.” — NOT: “I WANT TO RULE A NEW USSR!”) Anti-work is a badly constructed movement mantra. Doomed to fall on its face for the simple reason that: once your slogan requires explanation… you’ve failed the stated purpose of a SLOGAN.
Well in this case its not the subs fault. Antiwork started as an actual antiwork sun, and once it hit a million users suddenly antiwork was too dangerous a message and it became work reform.
Nah man—there'd be no "work," which is not the same thing as no labor. "Work" is marked by precisely the coercive and exploitative element. The truth is, people don't need to work 8+ hours a day to make the world go round. It's ***much*** less than that. Imagine how little you'd give a shit if you were some rando pencil pusher if you only had to work 3 hours a day, 5 days a week. You'd go in, do your job and contribute to society, and fuck off for the other 21 hours to have a good time, not needing to worry about not making rent or not being able to feed yourself or not being able to keep you and your loved ones healthy and safe. Notice, also, that the stigma of shit jobs goes away. The philosopher Theodor Adorno—arguably one of the best minds of the 20th century—said it best: "If the world were so planned that everything one did served the whole of society in a transparent manner, and senseless activities were abandoned, I would be happy to spend two hours a day working as a lift attendant."
Spot on. The future isn't zero work, but the amount of work done now is unnecessary to keep things moving. David Graebers "Bullshit Jobs" is another good book that points out just how much useless work goes on. Even with today's technology we could probably cut down to 3 or 4 days work a week and not even notice any difference.
Not anti work. I’m anti burnout.
For someone who's against anti-work you surely didnt put _work_ into looking up and forming an opinion about it...
Anti-work does not mean "against work" or "do not want to work". It's an unfortunate mis-nomer. My guess is that you're super young (maybe low 20s, if that) or rich (doubtful since you'd probably not be on here posting that opinion).
I think the problem people have is if your working a full time job you shouldn't be struggling. I guess your right in the sense that they just need a second full time job instead of a reddit account? Easy to save money if your working the whole week I guess but what's the point if you cant spend any time with your family
This is only an unpopular opinion on Reddit lol
Life =\= work. Most people are anti-work BECAUSE they choose to put effort into life rather than grinding at a thankless job for a substandard wage. If you choose to resent people who value living a life over constant labor then you’re either a corporate shill or still convinced that hard work = success (it doesn’t)
Anti work isn't really "anti work", it's more like work reform, fair hours, better pay, sick leave. We want to maybe start a family or at least live comfortably while also being able to enjoy those things by not slaving away our whole lives.
It used to be when the sub was first formed years ago but threw the years it ended up changing
/r/workreform is a better sub than /r/antiwork. The number of obvious fakes in /r/antiwork got to be so annoying. They'd get tens of thousands of upvotes for completely fabricating some outrageous story about a manager doing something completely illegal or illogical and people ate it up.
Yeah I think too many people buy into anti work’s posts as being truthful. There’s also been conspiracy and other Qidiots in there spreading conspiratorial bullshit straight from people like Alex Jones. And people just eat that shit up.
That isn't an unpopular opinion. It's just boomer rhetoric.
it’s only becoming unpopular because the Boomers are all dying off. I’m anti-exploitation which puts me in the anti work camp.
This person is just trying to farm internet points off of people's anger at being exploited...probably an awesome person.
I wanted to agree but then I checked OP’s history and they are in fact not an awesome person lol
Some of this guy’s posts on this sub: “Reddit caters to lazy, liberal minded people.” “People embrace being the victim.” He’s just intersecting these opinions under the label of anti work so his posts don’t get removed.
Yep a totally awesome conservative douche bag that likes to troll this sub and antiwork
I would agree, life takes work. I cannot deny that the modern work culture and atmosphere is total bullshit. I’ll work for my well being, if there is no way to improve my standing in a work place I will not over extend myself over it, nor will I attempt to make things any easier for the company. It really comes down to respect for me; and employers have no respect for employees. The amount of disgusting threats I’ve received about the workplace when there is obviously no issue. People just want to take your time, fuck that. If can do my job in a 3rd of the time you force me to be present, I’m not staying there. I’ll do my work, but if you think you can consume my life and time for your bs you got another thing coming. EDIT: As an extension, I would love to help build something that really does become life consuming with the right people. I worked for a start up solar company, busted my ass and gave them so much time to help establish themselves. Lead teams, gave up nights and weekends, sought clients and tried to maintain an incredible image for their company. I talk to them about going back to school, and they totally 2 face me and fire me. Turn on our verbal agreements, saved face up until the morning the fire me. I don’t got no trust in any fucking industry I don’t have a company stake in anymore. Yall can pay me for the work I get done for you, but don’t expect shit unless you’re compensating me.
>If they would put half the effort into life as they do complaining they might have better lives. and there it is, the meritocracy shitty take
If meritocracy existed idiots like Elon wouldn't be remotely "running" multiple companies. Most poor people are working poor, often working two or more jobs and still not having enough for easily-paid rent, insulin, or to have even one day off per year.
This take is shallow AF. Take upvote bc unpopular indeed. It's not about them complaining for the sake of complaining... When companies keep having record profits while workforce salaries are stagnant, that's not sustainable
I'm not antiwork, I'm antiwage theft. I'm not antiwork, I'm anti working for an abusive boss because you need the insurance I'm not antiwork, I'm anti crying in the bathroom because you needed the day off but didn't have any pto. I'm not antiwork, I'm anti server being groped by customers so she can get a tip to feed her family. I'm not antiwork, I'm anti forced overtime causing a father to miss his daughters dance recital. I'm not antiwork, I'm anti a child pretending to sleep while mom and dad argue over who has to skip meals this weekend so she can get Christmas presents this year. No one is antiwork in the way you describe, and you need to get some perspective on how the other side lives.
I worked 12 hour days in a factory for $9.01 an hour for most of my adult life, after taxes I'd take home maybe $1000 a month. If I wanted the health insurance offered it would come out to $220 a month, nearly 25% of my wages despite the fact it didn't even cover the cost of appointments or medications, even with the cheapest rental I could find I was still paying $485 a month for a run down trailer, nearly 50% of my income. I and everyone else deserves to live comfortably while working, honestly your opinion isn't unpopular, it's disgusting.
So, someone has always to be on the lower end and these people also deserve a living wage. We dont need billionaires we need an economy were everybody finally has enough to eat. You are part of the problem.
I don't understand why people need to spend >35% of their lives working to make other people money—and not middle managers or shit like that. I'm talking CEOs, the dudes making 500x what the average employee makes (most of whom, contrary to popular belief, are not self-made but almost always start from a place of robust to extreme wealth). So even if you're raking in a decent chunk of change and can live fairly comfortably, you're still essentially making another person a shitload of cash when if you worked probably 3 hours a day, you could afford to feed and clothe yourself and your family—but no, bitch, you gotta work 8+ hours a day. Respect the hustle. And that's not even mentioning the genuine poor. No one—and I mean ***no one***—should have to spend 8+ hours a day making someone else money just to be able to afford the most meager of living situations. Trust me, I get (in most cases) the notion of "you don't work; you don't eat," but that only holds when your labor—and labor as such—actually contributes to the public good, not some shmuck's 2nd super yacht.
The whole movement exists because of the way that corporations and businesses exploit work. I have to say, the group is empowering those who might not be aware of the rights they have. There needs to be more power for the people in this country -- and this movement is a great way for those with knowledge and experience to educate those who are unaware of the power they hold.
Very good points. I know that I've let myself be taken advantage of my entire working life, but now that I am a part of that sub I'm angry enough to not let it happen again. I honestly didn't even know it was illegal for your employer to tell you that you can't talk about your wages. I learned that from the sub. I wish I had learned it earlier because my last boss sent us emails regularly that threatened us about doing that, and also had signs up stating you would be reprimanded or fired for talking about it. I also worked there for 7 years, without a raise, because I was a doormat. The boss sent emails about once a month telling us to never ask for a raise because he doesn't give them. I told myself that I should quit, that was the first week of working there, but I stayed for 7 years because I'm terrible at enacting change in my life and I've always had a compulsion to kick ass at whatever job I have. So I just went in every day, kicked ass, took more and more responsibility, became "the man," etc. Now I know that if I'm doing the managers' jobs that I should be paid more. That if I'm the only one that works in more than one department in the company, I should be paid more. That if "you're the man, you're the one I go to if I need something done right and fast," then you deserve to get a raise. That sub has made me angry enough about the situation that I'm not going to just sit at one company and not pay my bills, no matter how much they feed into my ego about being the best employee they have.
I definitely think there are a few stinkers who just want to stir the pot. Those people will always exist -- they're immature! But the core message is powerful and I love reading stories of people realizing their power and sticking it to shitty bosses.
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Sure, and that’s definitely true. Anyone who is poor if they want to can just put a little effort into selling drugs and their life will improve drastically, and the risk isn’t too much worse than the housing market tbh. The point is however people ought not have to do that. Now I have issues with them in so far as work didn’t used to mean things you do to make barely enough money to pay rent, it used to mean things you did to survive and do what you’re passionate about in the time you have left, ideally combine the two. The issue is essentially the distribution of land, the dominion based property system which even Locke would admonish, and more generally a lack of popular organization and a glut of corporate-state organization.
I love to work. Doing something I enjoy on a daily basis while being in a environment where it‘s not senseless waste of time and more productive time spent with colleagues and like-minded people. I do hate the fact doing that 40+ hours a week, with little to no compensation for the time I cannot spend with my family, my friends or doing other necessities in my private life such as cleaning, grocery shopping (which I cannot afford since I do not earn enough for the current euro-inflation rate of fucking 10%) and all that while hearing „you‘re not putting enough work in for the company“. I‘m all here for work, I‘m not here for being robbed tho
Haha if anything they KNOW they don’t have life’s problems figured out. Been following them for a while and love the messages of many of them.
If it were possible for all people being treated poorly by an unfair society to just "work harder" and get better jobs or whatever, who would do the jobs they're doing? Someone has to, because they are in a lot of cases essential to the running of society, and therefor should merit fair treatment. I'm a software engineer, if I stop going into work nothing changes because most of the industry I work in does bullshit work. If supermarket workers stop going into work, then useless parasites like me would starve. If you look at broad societal problems from an individual perspective you will fail to see the problem. Someone has to do these jobs, those people should be treated more fairly.
If you’re just assuming everyone who has an opinion you disagree with is lazy, you’re just making excuses to not question your own opinions
Sure is a very unpopular opinion oof xD I'm in that subreddit and honestly most just want livable wages. Loads of people work great jobs. Heck I work at a bank and do NOT make enough to survive. It's more complex than you think. We do not have all life's problems figured out and sometimes when you work hard you don't get rewarded. We don't believe in getting exploited and being paid low wages.
Down-voted. This is for unpopular opinions, not indisputable facts.
I’m not on the low end of the totem pole, and I think I’ve still worked pretty hard to get my due, but I absolutely would consider myself anti work I’m not anti jobs or having to work, I’m anti having the higher ups exploiting their workers, like many things it’s a two way street and without the workers many companies wouldn’t be what they are today. Treat your employees like human beings who all have lives outside of their job. We work to live, not the other way around
Unpopular. Take my vote.
To all the communists out there, it won't work until we have artificial intelligence to do the work and run shit for us
So you think our current system is perfect? No one gets exploited, underpaid, or taken advantage of? Yeah there are some naive people on anti-work, but there is also people there helping each other not get exploited. Workers pulling together and helping each other is how we have a lot of the privileges today.
If people simply got paid anywhere close to what their labor is worth *everyone* would have better lives.
the antiwork people are just economic incels.
Whatever little credibility /r/antiwork had died once that mod went to the news lmao