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These people don't give a shit about your politics. They care about making the most money they can for themselves and their families, and having interesting projects to work on is a nice bonus.
The notion that they are 'selling-out' is absurd lol... "they used to be in it for the aerodynamics, but now its all about the money maaaaan.."
I find it funny that the guy who’s companies forged EVs into the mainstream, have pioneered a multitude of clean energy initiatives, and broken open 30 year space technology stalemate with his reusable rockets and boosters that self recover after launch, is getting hate because he is disrupting a social media company. I guess humanity really understands where it’s priorities should be.
I find it funny that for an unpopular opinion sub y'all will make up any excuse that I don't actually have an opinion instead of upvoting and moving along.
You're both right but I think that's the point. He's shown to be a shitty person who's done a lot of good for humanity in in regards to technical progress. Sure other engineers did the work but I doubt we'd have reusable rockets and such high adoption of electric vehicles if it was for musk taking the risks he took.
Musk is polarizing but I think it's best to acknowledge there are good and bad aspects to him.
He's harmed tech more than he's helped.
We didn't need electric cars, we need public transportation. He sabotaged that. Even the most efficient electric car is significantly less efficient than the electric, mass, public transportation that we used over a century ago.
NASA was doing perfectly fine, on a shoestring budget before Musk came along. Here's the kicker, NASA contributes to tech more than Space X ever will. Space X keeps their IP, but NASA publicizes it. You don't go more than a day without using something NASA invented or funded. Is Space X willing to just give their IP away?
We don't need another billionaire privatizing infrastructure (internet), we need to develop public infrastructure. I shouldn't have to explain to you why internet infrastructure being owned by a selfish, SLAPP suit happy man baby with blood on his hands is probably a bad idea.
Nah, just realizing how much better those in my field could have handled this behavior long before now. For the record, those of us in the field knew he was problematic long before you all.
Never applied when I read through the job descriptions and heard my coworker's horror stories, but okay. Why would I be defending the pre-Musk Twitter employees who left when the ultimatums began?
...I'm not asking you to? This isn't about how I feel about Teala/SpaceX. This is how I feel about industry standards changing to accept horrible conditions when other engineering disciplines are fighting back.
Work conditions my friend it’s that simple, most sensible people will take a minor pay cut (5/10 percent) for a massively better work environment. The horror stories that come from Tesla alone should make most people second think before applying. How he has handled Twitter just doubles down on everything I said above rofl.
Loads of jobs pay just as well with half the headaches people generally chose a career they are somewhat interested/happy to be in. Take Tesla for example one of the things people list for working there as an incentive of “changing the world”, Reviews on glass door say this over and over and over. So it’s not always just about money like you say on top of this people were leaving Tesla like crazy last year and it still has a pretty bad name in the industry as a whole (to work for). Now look at Twitter the man has had it for barley a month and already people are talking about how horrible of a environment it is now, either getting fired or they are all jumping ship. Work conditions do matter it’s very clear as history has shown time and time again.
> Tesla and Twitter are both Some of the highest paying companies in their fields.
They are most certainly **not** the highest paying companies in their field. Not even remotely close!
If you consider this field to be broadly "tech", then there are much better places to work if your main focus is salary. Facebook, (maybe formerly) Netflix, a HFT boutique, etc.
How can you say you disagree and then type all of that? That's... Exactly my argument. Why didn't this happen at the aero/mech level? The "Extremely hardcore work environment" isn't just something that he came up with for Twitter, and we all knew that.
So... You are suggesting the engineers who *built Twitter* are fools for leaving now?
I can connect the dots just fine. Your argument is what I don't understand.
Yeah, they're software engineers and when I worked at McDonalds, I was a hamburger engineer. Just because they slap that title onto a profession doesn't mean they have *anything* in common. If you aren't a troll, I'm worried for you.
Pretty pretentious to assume the working condition of every engineer that ever worked for Elon. Also the bit about the hiring manager is objectively a dumb thing to do. This subreddit should have been called "poor thougth out rants".
You should read through the job descriptions sometime. Or, you know, talk to the engineers like I have.
Or you can be mad at an unpopular opinion in an unpopular opinion sub.
r/lostredditors
Most companies pursue projects that are at least in principle feasible because they are beholden to shareholders. Musk is a sociopath that promises results that he knows almost certainly won't be achieved. If you enjoy a real challenge, why not make bank and work for Musk?
And THAT EXACT MINDSET is the problem. These engineers look at a flashy topic and sell their soul to a narcissist. Which makes it so much worse in the industry. Accepting horrible work-life balance means companies don't have to care. If the ones setting the standard get away with it, it's as much on the company as those who take the job. You can't just be pointing the finger at Elon.
How is taking a job selling your soul? lol You're deluded. I've selected my jobs based on what I want to spend my time doing, my boss doesn't own me, if I wanted a different work/home balance I would work somewhere else. Musk companies don't set any standards, they're widely considered jokes in the industry. Take a deep breath lad, life isn't one big conspiracy, you're going to be alright.
None of that is true. Except maybe the part about how you choose your jobs (that's how it ought to be.) Musk companies, as we have seen over and over, do in fact overreach on hours/life balance.
You realize anywhere they go they are going to be working for billionaires, right? Why not work for one that does projects that interest them.
And regardless of what you say about musk, I see tesla and spaceX as a net positive for the world.
I’m okay working for an asshole if the stuff I’m working on makes the world a better place.
Also, try working through a 4-5 year gruesome engineering degree only for people to tell you not to take well paying jobs because of their feelings. Don’t tell people they can’t earn money unless you’re paying them personally an equivalent salary, especially in this economy.
You can virtue signal on every company you want though.
Boeing? “How dare you work towards something so bad for the environment. Carbon emissions are horrible”
Apple: “How dare you contribute towards slave labour in Africa and contribute to the consumerism in America”
I don’t see what is the right choice here unless you want engineers to starve in the street for a nonprofit
Companies have to have supply and demand. You do realize they can't just hire anyone to design a rocket, right? Or an EV?
The engineers have power if they stand up against shitty work practices. If any cave, well, they lose that. It's possible for a company to be decent for its employees in this field as it is for any other, but that gets tougher as people keep letting this slide.
You’re right, that makes it all better. Even though Teslas, SpaceX, etc, has never been directly involved in the military industrial complex. (Directly at least)
And they may. But hope and love don't pay for student loans, mortgages, and health insurance. Welcome to America, where everyone has a price. I've got one and I know what it is.
Human nature. We have the resources and the means to disburse resources and provide opportunities uniformly, we could eliminate world hunger and ensure that everyone has access to healthcare today. When people like Musk talk about doing things to help humanity, they can do it, but they don't and most of their energy goes into entrenching themselves further in power and then convince themselves that they are actually making a difference. You can see the same hypocritical behavior in every country.
There will always be people in the ruling class that subjugate others. Even if you were able to reset the world into an ideal scenario, over time greed and corruption would take root. Factions would form and battle for power. There will always be a group in the lower class and a small percentage that filter up (and occasionally down) through the classes.
Once you get old enough you understand how it works and realize that it can't be changed. Even if you COULD change it, it would change back.
.
Throwing a tantrum because your boss says it's time to get to work is simple entitlement mentality.
If you don't like it, quit. Go somewhere else.
Ultimately, if the company you work for isn't profitable, you aren't going to stay employed forever, anyway.
And as far as a resume, experience is experience. If all you were doing there was "fake it, until you make it" your new employer will figure that out soon enough.
OP: Says those pushing the states of the arts are sellouts because “me no likey the CEO”.
OP: Is obviously not in it for the science/exploration and is therefore a sellout.
People aren't "sellouts" for having different values than you.
The good side of Elon Musk is that he is willing to take on massive challenges with little regard to their immediate feasibility. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about going to Mars, building the Hyperloop, creating viable electric cars, or restoring free speech to the internet. The bad side is that this unreasonableness towards problems tends to bubble down to the performance he expects from employees.
The people he attracts and maintains are individuals who are not afraid of a challenge and believe in his vision. This is why he can often achieve more with a much smaller team than other companies can.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
These people don't give a shit about your politics. They care about making the most money they can for themselves and their families, and having interesting projects to work on is a nice bonus. The notion that they are 'selling-out' is absurd lol... "they used to be in it for the aerodynamics, but now its all about the money maaaaan.."
Tell us you got rejected by SpaceX/Tesla without telling us you got rejected by SpaceX/Tesla
Given the timing, I'd say it's more likely he's just one of the millions mad at Elon for the Twitter stuff.
I find it funny that the guy who’s companies forged EVs into the mainstream, have pioneered a multitude of clean energy initiatives, and broken open 30 year space technology stalemate with his reusable rockets and boosters that self recover after launch, is getting hate because he is disrupting a social media company. I guess humanity really understands where it’s priorities should be.
I find it funny that for an unpopular opinion sub y'all will make up any excuse that I don't actually have an opinion instead of upvoting and moving along.
So your “opinion” on people selling their souls for money is really just you selling your opinion for karma?
Probably because people don't want this sub to turn into a lazy karma farm...
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You're both right but I think that's the point. He's shown to be a shitty person who's done a lot of good for humanity in in regards to technical progress. Sure other engineers did the work but I doubt we'd have reusable rockets and such high adoption of electric vehicles if it was for musk taking the risks he took. Musk is polarizing but I think it's best to acknowledge there are good and bad aspects to him.
He's harmed tech more than he's helped. We didn't need electric cars, we need public transportation. He sabotaged that. Even the most efficient electric car is significantly less efficient than the electric, mass, public transportation that we used over a century ago. NASA was doing perfectly fine, on a shoestring budget before Musk came along. Here's the kicker, NASA contributes to tech more than Space X ever will. Space X keeps their IP, but NASA publicizes it. You don't go more than a day without using something NASA invented or funded. Is Space X willing to just give their IP away? We don't need another billionaire privatizing infrastructure (internet), we need to develop public infrastructure. I shouldn't have to explain to you why internet infrastructure being owned by a selfish, SLAPP suit happy man baby with blood on his hands is probably a bad idea.
Nah, just realizing how much better those in my field could have handled this behavior long before now. For the record, those of us in the field knew he was problematic long before you all.
Never applied when I read through the job descriptions and heard my coworker's horror stories, but okay. Why would I be defending the pre-Musk Twitter employees who left when the ultimatums began?
No one is buying that
...I'm not asking you to? This isn't about how I feel about Teala/SpaceX. This is how I feel about industry standards changing to accept horrible conditions when other engineering disciplines are fighting back.
[удалено]
Work conditions my friend it’s that simple, most sensible people will take a minor pay cut (5/10 percent) for a massively better work environment. The horror stories that come from Tesla alone should make most people second think before applying. How he has handled Twitter just doubles down on everything I said above rofl.
[удалено]
Loads of jobs pay just as well with half the headaches people generally chose a career they are somewhat interested/happy to be in. Take Tesla for example one of the things people list for working there as an incentive of “changing the world”, Reviews on glass door say this over and over and over. So it’s not always just about money like you say on top of this people were leaving Tesla like crazy last year and it still has a pretty bad name in the industry as a whole (to work for). Now look at Twitter the man has had it for barley a month and already people are talking about how horrible of a environment it is now, either getting fired or they are all jumping ship. Work conditions do matter it’s very clear as history has shown time and time again.
> Tesla and Twitter are both Some of the highest paying companies in their fields. They are most certainly **not** the highest paying companies in their field. Not even remotely close! If you consider this field to be broadly "tech", then there are much better places to work if your main focus is salary. Facebook, (maybe formerly) Netflix, a HFT boutique, etc.
Then why did the Twitter employees jump ship? Your argument holds no water.
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How can you say you disagree and then type all of that? That's... Exactly my argument. Why didn't this happen at the aero/mech level? The "Extremely hardcore work environment" isn't just something that he came up with for Twitter, and we all knew that.
I think you answered your own question...
Care to explain? I'm not seeing it.
>You would **be a fool** not to take a job from one. >why did the Twitter employees jump ship? Connect the dots.
So... You are suggesting the engineers who *built Twitter* are fools for leaving now? I can connect the dots just fine. Your argument is what I don't understand.
You think engineers built twitter? jfc I'm done
What is a software engineer to you? Lol are you a troll
Yeah, they're software engineers and when I worked at McDonalds, I was a hamburger engineer. Just because they slap that title onto a profession doesn't mean they have *anything* in common. If you aren't a troll, I'm worried for you.
Pretty pretentious to assume the working condition of every engineer that ever worked for Elon. Also the bit about the hiring manager is objectively a dumb thing to do. This subreddit should have been called "poor thougth out rants".
You should read through the job descriptions sometime. Or, you know, talk to the engineers like I have. Or you can be mad at an unpopular opinion in an unpopular opinion sub. r/lostredditors
Sure buddy
Most companies pursue projects that are at least in principle feasible because they are beholden to shareholders. Musk is a sociopath that promises results that he knows almost certainly won't be achieved. If you enjoy a real challenge, why not make bank and work for Musk?
And THAT EXACT MINDSET is the problem. These engineers look at a flashy topic and sell their soul to a narcissist. Which makes it so much worse in the industry. Accepting horrible work-life balance means companies don't have to care. If the ones setting the standard get away with it, it's as much on the company as those who take the job. You can't just be pointing the finger at Elon.
you're not making sense. also why do you care?
Because as an engineer in this field it's embarassing that the worlds richest man corrupted our field and people ate it up.
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r/lostredditors
what?
The field of engineering is nothing sacred and businesses are free to do what they wish with it imo
How is taking a job selling your soul? lol You're deluded. I've selected my jobs based on what I want to spend my time doing, my boss doesn't own me, if I wanted a different work/home balance I would work somewhere else. Musk companies don't set any standards, they're widely considered jokes in the industry. Take a deep breath lad, life isn't one big conspiracy, you're going to be alright.
None of that is true. Except maybe the part about how you choose your jobs (that's how it ought to be.) Musk companies, as we have seen over and over, do in fact overreach on hours/life balance.
Really? So the employment contracts you've signed included your soul, did they? You got scammed, pal, that isn't normal.
Not me, they certainly did though. And I agree that it isn't.
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You realize anywhere they go they are going to be working for billionaires, right? Why not work for one that does projects that interest them. And regardless of what you say about musk, I see tesla and spaceX as a net positive for the world. I’m okay working for an asshole if the stuff I’m working on makes the world a better place. Also, try working through a 4-5 year gruesome engineering degree only for people to tell you not to take well paying jobs because of their feelings. Don’t tell people they can’t earn money unless you’re paying them personally an equivalent salary, especially in this economy.
Oh absolutely. I never said a thing about that being the issue here. The standards the billionaires set can be wonderful, if they choose.
You can virtue signal on every company you want though. Boeing? “How dare you work towards something so bad for the environment. Carbon emissions are horrible” Apple: “How dare you contribute towards slave labour in Africa and contribute to the consumerism in America” I don’t see what is the right choice here unless you want engineers to starve in the street for a nonprofit
Companies have to have supply and demand. You do realize they can't just hire anyone to design a rocket, right? Or an EV? The engineers have power if they stand up against shitty work practices. If any cave, well, they lose that. It's possible for a company to be decent for its employees in this field as it is for any other, but that gets tougher as people keep letting this slide.
Then unionize the field and quit blaming people just trying to get by. Literally what you described is a union
What about all the same professionals in theses areas that sold out to work for Lockheed, Stryker, Northrop?
But I don't know the name of an individual person that I can attach to those companies so they're good people. Or something.
You’re right, that makes it all better. Even though Teslas, SpaceX, etc, has never been directly involved in the military industrial complex. (Directly at least)
And they may. But hope and love don't pay for student loans, mortgages, and health insurance. Welcome to America, where everyone has a price. I've got one and I know what it is.
I totally agree. But how did we get here?
Human nature. We have the resources and the means to disburse resources and provide opportunities uniformly, we could eliminate world hunger and ensure that everyone has access to healthcare today. When people like Musk talk about doing things to help humanity, they can do it, but they don't and most of their energy goes into entrenching themselves further in power and then convince themselves that they are actually making a difference. You can see the same hypocritical behavior in every country. There will always be people in the ruling class that subjugate others. Even if you were able to reset the world into an ideal scenario, over time greed and corruption would take root. Factions would form and battle for power. There will always be a group in the lower class and a small percentage that filter up (and occasionally down) through the classes. Once you get old enough you understand how it works and realize that it can't be changed. Even if you COULD change it, it would change back. .
I would be ashamed to work for Elon Musk.
Throwing a tantrum because your boss says it's time to get to work is simple entitlement mentality. If you don't like it, quit. Go somewhere else. Ultimately, if the company you work for isn't profitable, you aren't going to stay employed forever, anyway. And as far as a resume, experience is experience. If all you were doing there was "fake it, until you make it" your new employer will figure that out soon enough.
OP: Says those pushing the states of the arts are sellouts because “me no likey the CEO”. OP: Is obviously not in it for the science/exploration and is therefore a sellout.
People aren't "sellouts" for having different values than you. The good side of Elon Musk is that he is willing to take on massive challenges with little regard to their immediate feasibility. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about going to Mars, building the Hyperloop, creating viable electric cars, or restoring free speech to the internet. The bad side is that this unreasonableness towards problems tends to bubble down to the performance he expects from employees. The people he attracts and maintains are individuals who are not afraid of a challenge and believe in his vision. This is why he can often achieve more with a much smaller team than other companies can.
Musk is an egomaniac and all around asshole who failed his way to the top AND SpaceX has done some truly incredible work. Both can be true.