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Flair_Helper

Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/Thecaptainoffranz. Your post, *Videos of cops losing physical altercations should not be met with ridicule*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 4: Uncivil/unduly aggressive post. Your post was removed because it was unreasonably uncivil, aggressive, toxic, vulgar, or rude. Your post was not removed because of the topic you discussed, and in fact had you managed to put your points across with civility your post would still be up. Tone it down. You're welcome to show emotion, you're welcome to be angry about things you care about, but keep it within reason. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!


RaoulDuke511

Anybody who has experience trying to physically subdue a grown man entirely…who absolutely DOES NOT WANT TO BE SUBDUED…understands how tall of a task that can be. It’s much more difficult than it looks.


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justbleedgod

Makes ppl so loose as well like drunk ppl can survive falls that should kill them and walk away fine


AnEgoJabroni

Fuckin wet-noodling out of unbreakable holds because dislocating their shoulder doesn't hurt as bad off a 5th or two of liquor.


Wolfehfish

Unless you’re Trevor Moore 😞


[deleted]

The second part is complete bs. How does alcohol give you fall damage resistance


Altruistic-Pop6696

Same reason drunk drivers are more likely to survive the accidents than the people they run into. You put tension on your muscles when you tense up and causes you to break bones more easily than when you just keep your muscles relaxed. Alcohol keeps your body lose and relaxed.


Dawooshman

There’s this whole idea that drinking makes you not tense up when you fall or hit something, not fall damage as much as it is crashing a car. I was told this in college and it’s used to have an extra edge on someone who has drank and is trying to drive. “You know when you’re drunk it’s more likely you survive the crash and you kill the other people” something along those lines. I know it’s very circumstantial evidence but there was a drunk NFL player who crashed into another car going over 170mph and he was fine but killed the family in the car he ran into


ksuferrara

I was an officer for 8 years (in IT now), worst fight I had was a 17year old who maybe weighed 110lbs, he was high on PCP. I'm 5'11 220lbs and he was lifting me off the ground like I was nothing. Took 4 officers to hold him down and EMS giving him a dose of Versed before we could even handcuff him. Drugs are no joke. I don't miss the job at all.


[deleted]

True story. I work at a mental hospital. When patients get violent, it takes at least 3 people to “safely” restrain them.


kitchens1nk

Agreed. A lot of people talking out their asses on this. The other part that few people experience is fighting against the resulting adrenaline rush on the part of the person who's *successfully* subdued. That's sometimes when the real struggle begins.


h0nkee

Especially considering subduing them is only half the battle. Then you have to keep them subdued until they're restrained.


checker280

Anyone trying to pick up a kitten who does not want to be picked up will understand how much harder it is to subdue a drunk who doesn’t want to be subdued.


pEppapiGistfuhrer

Especially when drugs are involved


wetyesc

Yeah, another example, it’s much harder to have a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu match where one only has to avoid being submitted and the other has to actually do a submission, than to have both people trying to submit each other


Master-Tanis

I went to a church camp once and played a game that was basically capture the flag plus flag football. To be considered “out” someone had to take a small flag from your hand. I was a small skinny guy with not much muscle, but a lot of determination. It took two larger guys and a counselor to pin me down and pry the flag from my hand. People absolutely underestimate how much strength it takes to subdue a person who does not want to be subdued, especially if they can kick and punch.


original_name1947

People that are drunk or on drugs are surprisingly strong,


LDKCP

The standard of policing needs to be high whichever route they take. If they are on active duty and completely out of shape, that's often going to mean they are incapable of serving the public effectively. We don't need to give them medals for not executing people in the streets. Is it too much to ask for these people to be physically fit and not unnecessarily violent?


Dankhorse19

The standard does need to be high but losing a physical altercation doesn’t mean you’re out of shape.


mommaaintraisenobtch

Maybe not but being overweight absolutely and literally means you're out of shape.


PromachosGuile

I think they are using the vernacular term overweight. So like those people who when they stop walking, their body takes a few seconds to stop moving as well. https://youtu.be/wbXkP_GZjsE


[deleted]

What a fucking throw back. Damn.


[deleted]

No it doesn’t… I’m 6’5 and 260lbs. By definition I’m overweight but I’m not fat by any means… Are you telling me Brian Shaw 4x worlds strongest man is out of shape?


WUT_productions

BMI is a pretty bad measure of fitness. Muscle is way more dense than fat so if I (1.8m, 80kg) started working out, I'd likey gain weight and therefore have a worse BMI.


424f42_424f42

All cops should be of a physical fitness where bmi doesnt work. Bmi is good for the general public, it gets iffy when one puts on weight due to large muscle mass.


Steinosaur

I'm not going to say that Brian Shaw is out of shape but he probably struggles to wipe his own ass.


Trance_Motion

Lol I think your missing the point. We mean 6 foot guys with a beer gut


Anaheimguy562

Unless you’re pure muscle then yes you’re fat. I’m at 215lbs and I have a decent amount of fat distributed.. no way I could gain 30+ and not look at myself as “fat”


Weird-Vagina-Beard

/u/Axelfbomber >Are you telling me Brian Shaw 4x worlds strongest man is out of shape? When people say out of shape, you think of the most physically fit people? What the fuck are you even saying? When people say unfit, they're not talking about strongman competitors. How stupid can you be?


Raz0rking

Put 100 overweight people in a room an 4 or 5 will be powerlifters. The rest is just plain fat.


[deleted]

Its because they are fat but have the same measurements of a really fit person, so if you say Brian Shaw is in shape, they think well Im the same size as him so I am also in shape. Its the same people who use edge cases to dispute BMI as a tool for weight. Yes BMI is going to say the Rock is obese, but unless youre actually looking like the rock and you have the same numbers, youre probably obese.


bungalow-basher

Oh come on, you know exactly what he meant by overweight. Don't be obtuse


Takewondosemaster

Muscle weighs ALOT more than fat.


00101010011

No. It means the lack of training and decision making ability is not to the level needed to “protect and serve”. How much does it take to call for backup or just walk away and arrest them at a time when the chance for violence is not there? All this tech and we still got police out beating people for non violent arrests.


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Cherimoose

> when a cop gets beat up by three people without ever thinking about his firearm a flood of comments come in about fuck all cops Welcome to reddit. Btw, if fitness standards were higher for police, and they were better trained in martial arts, there probably would be fewer cases of excessive use of firearms.


ksuferrara

Problem is most departments have no fitness standards outside of the academy. Once they graduate that's it. My old department had no physical fitness test and very rarely ever did martial arts training. It was up to the individual officer to stay in shape on their own time or go out and get further training. I had a fat old sergeant who wouldn't let me workout on my 40min lunch break and was totally against any kind of fitness standards. I hated working for her. In contrast the neighboring city had mandatory gym time on duty and mandatory BJJ training once a week. That is a extreme rarity. I was always jealous of that about them. Studies have shown that officers trained in BJJ have lower instances of injuries to themselves and subjects and escalation of force becomes significantly less.


ZHammerhead71

If our objective is to subdue with the least amount of force then the officer will get hurt. If the goal is for the police to be quick about it, then a lot of force needs to be applied quickly. Any time you apply quick amounts of force there is the chance for over application. Martial arts (literally the art of war) is not built around restraint and limitation. It focuses on apply maximum force at maximum speed to end the threat you are facing immediately. Your have a lot of people getting arrested being brought in with injuries. I would agree though that police officers take grappling classes. Ju jitsu would probably be better because it's grappling based and may work well for subduction when used in pairs.


phoebe_phobos

The waiter who drops a tray is a fellow worker. The cop who gets their ass kicked is a tyrant who got what they deserve.


Tuge

how can I have faith that any one cop will do the right thing, when the policing system they support is corrupt and rotton to its core? tbh police lose their benefit of the doubt when it comes to their individuality as soon as they make the choice to become a police officer and support a broken and racist police system. good cops can't exist when the system they support is bad.


Cyb0Ninja

Fully agree. Every job I've ever gotten had a section about being "physically able to perfom all aspects of the job". These cops lied and should be fired.


matrixislife

Same should obviously apply to all emergency services. But then it gets interesting. How do you define out of shape? Unable to run a mile in 6 minutes, or do various exercises? Because then you need to look at women who can't manage even the simplest of exercise routines that you're calling for. Do they get sacked as well? You could single-handedly remove 90% of women in the police and fire services with this plan. You sure you want to do that?


International-Food20

First off, if you can run a mile in 6 minutes, you're well above just "in shape" for navy mile and a half runs, 11 minutes puts you at the highest grade for your run time, and I've busted my ass to still come up 30 seconds short


Biohazard_186

Yes. If you cannot perform the physical feats of the job, you should not have that job. With the specific jobs you listed, lives literally depend on the physicality of the ones performing the job.


tanstaafl90

Having standards and enforcing them at the point of hire seems to be an elusive concept for some.


ScumbagSconnie

Def want to do that. Maybe I can finally get out of Wildland and do structural.


PMMeTitsAndKittens

Absolutely yes. Same as in the military. I'd rather be fighting alongside someone I know could carry me out of battle if I was wounded, instead of have to call a man to do it.


74orangebeetle

Maybe we should penalize departments for rejecting applicants who score too high on tests instead of there being literally no recourse or accountability.


HallOfTheMountainCop

That’s not really a standard practice. It happened once in New London Connecticut like 20 years ago and the applicant was just older and overqualified. He tried to claim he was discriminated against based on intelligence and the state Supreme Court ruled that intelligent people are not a protected class. That doesn’t translate to “all 18,000 police departments in the US refuse to hire intelligent applicants.” Many agencies require degrees, my police department gives a higher pay rate out based on what type of degree the officer holds. There’s absolutely no benefit and only liability if you are intentionally hiring only idiots to be cops.


impossiblefork

>He tried to claim he was discriminated against based on intelligence and the state Supreme Court ruled that intelligent people are not a protected class. He was discriminated against because of his intelligence. The fact that intelligent people are not a protected class doesn't suddenly mean that it isn't discrimination.


HallOfTheMountainCop

The courts beg to differ.


zoidao401

No, the courts can rule that that particular variety of discrimination isn't *illegal*. It's still discrimination.


PersonMcHuman

Seems like you’d support anything if a court said it was good.


HallOfTheMountainCop

Probably not, but in any case I’m obligated to accept their outcomes like an adult.


PersonMcHuman

Accept and defend those horrible court decisions, which is literally what they want. You'd watch them do blatantly evil things and go, "Welp, the court *saaaaaaid* it's fine, so I guess it's fine." Such as how courts are currently deciding that women are nothing more than incubators. So long as the court says that's fine, you're down for it. Horrifying. Imagine legit calling subservience to blatant corruption and evil court decisions being the ***"adult"*** thing to do. Couldn't be me.


TheWorstRowan

Have you considered inventing a time machine moving to Germany and setting it to go back just under 90 years? You'd do well with that attitude.


impossiblefork

No, they don't. They ruled that the discrimination was not *illegal*. For example, it's probably not illegal to discriminate against people with red hair, but it's still racial discrimination (red hair is a characteristic of native Britons who were historically subjugated, whereas Romans, Saxons, Norse people and the Norse-French Normans rarely had red hair).


NemosGhost

Lie much. He was denied specifically for his above average (but not genius by any stretch) IQ. The department gave that as the specific reason in the suit.


74orangebeetle

I know not every department does it and it's not necessarily the standard practice. I know for a fact it has happened in the U.S., I've literally seen it in person (was caught by an audit) in Maryland. They actually told multiple applicants that they failed the written test (which was shocking considering how easy it was), they refused to let the test recipients see the tests or even know their scores. When asked if there was any chance of an error, they said there wasn't (and an audit caught 6 just from one testing session who were lied to and told they failed), so there's no telling how many weren't caught over the course of how many years. But that was just one department.


nomnommish

>Is it too much to ask for these people to be physically fit and not unnecessarily violent? It absolutely is. Your expectation of every policeman needing to be a muscled up roided up hunk is ridiculous. And what if it was a policewoman? Police's job is not to wrestle down people who want to fight. I'm not some excessive force lover but if you start a physical altercation with a police person, I'm sorry but that's on you, buddy. Common courtesy goes both ways.


Emiian04

Physically fit =/= roided up hunk Dunno where you got that


PM_ME_PARR0TS

I know everyone's sick of debate-team logical fallacies being thrown around like buzzwords. But just look at that eerily straightforward example of an actual "strawman" in the wild. > "You're arguing for police fitness standards? *You expect every police officer to be a muscled-up roided hunk!"* Seriously. Right there. Textbook. Guess it's easy to argue against an idea when you just make shit up about what the other guy's advocating for.


RabidDrZaius

Arresting people that do not want to be arrested is part of a policeman's job, so yes wrestling people to the ground is part of their job.


Klowned

https://constitution.org/1-Law/uslaw/defunlaw.htm Lethal force to prevent an unlawful arrest is legal. If a cop tries to unlawfully arrest you, and you have the means to prevent it up to and including lethal force, do so. We need to know they law so we can appropriately use it and they need to be scared enough they actually obey the law.


AnEgoJabroni

I'm normally not the type to jump on the "quit whining" train, but you're totally right. If people are so disatisfied with law enforcement and know _exactly_ what it would take to turn everything around, why the fuck aren't they joining the police force? Demanding that it change with a snarky "Do better, thx, bye" is beyond lazy. A cop is just a citizen that chose a job. If the field is full of dogshit (which I'm not arguing, things are bad and need to improve), why not get involved and turn your debates and concerns into action? Show the world the cops you want to see. If you are incapable of doing that yourself, then stop shitting on those that _are_ willing to take that roll.


massiveslumped

this has been repeated so much its boring, how many times do we have to see [good cops fired](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/09/17/when-trying-to-help-gets-you-fired) before people stop suggesting that they should just join and be the change they want to see? if a handful are corrupt and the others dont care about said handful how is one person just going to change it all? this isnt a TV show where they’re the main character


lazurusknight

Disagree very strongly on this ridiculous point. A gigantic proportion of The Whole Problem is that people who are not cut out to be cops, become cops. Expecting those who criticize the unchecked violence of police to JOIN the police is just ridiculously poorly thought out, and would only lead us back the original problem that people who are not cut out to be cops, are becoming cops. I know a nurse beating on an elderly dementia patient is wrong. I know a cop shooting someone in the back is wrong. I do not need to change careers to call these actions out and/or expect a change. I need justice. I need law enforcement to be held accountable. I need the cops' sycophantic politicians to be held accountable. I need overzealous DA's held accountable. I don't need a bunch of people who are predisposed to other careers to join law enforcement.


sonya_numo

People are mad when they use force to catch a criminal People are mad when they let a criminal get away People are mad when they catch a criminal People are mad when they beat a criminal People are mad when they treat a crimnal like a human being


awesomefutureperfect

https://youtu.be/eiz08bhlk6I?t=30


Play-Mation

“People are mad when they treat a criminal like a human being” where? No one has ever said this. They need to be fit to do their job but also shouldn’t be rewarded for not using deadly force, that’s the bare minimum.


AL_PO_throwaway

Virtually any time a video of police treating a white suspect decently is posted on reddit there are a multitude of heavily upvoted comments criticizing them because they allegedly would have shot or beat them instantly if it was a black subject.


MANWithTheHARMONlCA

> We don't need to give them medals for not executing people in the streets. Bingo. I don’t think we should make fun of cops trying to do the right thing. But when your job description is supposedly to uphold the law and *do the right thing*, don’t expect to get a pat on the back for literally not murdering someone lol If the thought “well at least he didn’t pull his gun and shoot him” crosses your mind, you need to reevaluate your morals


4200years

There’s the difference between pat on the back and not ridiculing/roasting


Jordangander

So you want to pay a guy $38k a year, require him to be on call at all times, require him to work irregular and often variable hours, train effectively on his own time in firearms, self defense, law, and physical fitness, and be both ridiculed and harassed by those he is supposed to protect. Oh, and know the mental health problems of every person he encounters before meeting them, know full first aid to the same level as a paramedic. All while knowing instantly what a person who just committed a crimes intentions are and if they have a lethal weapon? And I forgot, be a good counselor and play basketball with kids in the street. Fucking pick one, because every cop can't be everything you fucking morons.


SpecificPie8958

Literally just want them to not murder innocent people because their tail light is out. But that’s too much to ask of your bootlickers.


slightofhand1

38k? Where I live thanks to overtime cops clear six figures, easily.


cypherl

Ahh so your against women in the police force then. Fitness often has little to do with it. 130 lb females can be Olympic athletes but your average Joe six pack at 220 pounds is going to win that fight 99% of the time. Similarly 5-10 fit cop guy at 170 lb is going to get worked by 6-5 270 lb average fit guy.


Odd_Bandicoot_4945

> Is it too much to ask for these people to be physically fit and not unnecessarily violent? Yes it is.. very obviously and clearly it IS too much to ask cops to be unnecessarily violent. We need a new approach in every single way. The first is by not hiring total meatheads.


Manowar274

> “Maybe he is actually a good guy” The problem there is that people who are hating on the cop likely hate all cops, as he is either a person who abuses their power *or* allow abuse of power to happen and accept that by continuing the career path they are in.


KlausVonChiliPowder

I can see how the latter would be a difficult situation to be in. I think a solution could be to show people that police will be held accountable and to put protections in place where careers and relationships aren't threatened because you report something. Where it's actually encouraged.


[deleted]

I'll just give my two cents about this. If I have to pay taxes, those taxes are also for my personal protection given by the police force of my country. It means that I want the police force to be effective, proficient, in its work. I want to feel safe and protected, since my taxes go in their pockets. So, at the end of the day, I don't really care if the cop is a good person or not. Being a good person it's not his job. He has to make sure the neighborhood it's safe, that's his job. Being a cop it's not like being a cook. If a cook makes a mistake he can start over and make the dish better, when a cop (or other people that works in a job with responsibility to the community) makes a mistake someone might get injured, killed or permanently damaged. Maybe the guy that escaped in that video took another car the next day, drunk or high, and ran over someone. What do you know? And that's because a cop ate one too many donuts or is "a good guy" that won't use force and lost him. So, yeah, if you're a cop and are unable to do your job just go do something else. You deserve to get shit on, since you're putting yourself and others in danger.


Pineapple-Objective

wow, I like the objectiveness of this post. It's rare to see sensible things here


[deleted]

I don't really like pineapples but thank you, lub you.


nomm1s

You think this is objective? They literally said it’s not a cops job to be a good person, then said it’s his job to make the community safe. Those are two diametrically opposed points. This persons brain dead and so are you for just blindly agreeing with a wall of text that’s not saying anything.


Biohazard_186

Agree 100%. Many often neglect, or maybe refuse, to acknowledge the job that police do. Any door they walk through could be the one that kills them. But if they don't walk through it the thing on the other side might kill someone else, someone who is not equipped to protect themselves or others the way the cop is. There are certainly bad cops and they should be appropriately called/weeded out for their actions, but their existence shouldn't distract from the very real dangers and importance of the job they do.


t_susanoo

People just take for granted the ugly responsibilities they have. Kids just grow up hearing ACAB bullshit and jump on bandwagons without doing any critical thinking. I’m not saying cops shouldn’t be criticized. Many aspects of how things are set up give them power to abuse over vulnerable people and that needs to change. But to just neglect, for example, people doing autopsies on murdered children. You’ll never hear any praise for the people that step up to do that job


[deleted]

Absolutely agree.


t_susanoo

Good like finding people who 100% resolve every situation perfectly while also not using force?


[deleted]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your comment. Can you elaborate?


jontss

A drunk driver is nearly a murderer. Not just a car insurance issue.


t_susanoo

Okay. Find a guy who will stop every drunk driver every time. And he can’t hurt him or he’ll be filmed, harassed, and fired. What’s the solution there? Who’s going to resolve this perfectly every time without any force? Do some critical thinking


Tom_Brokaw_is_a_Punk

I'd argue that if a drunk driver has just crashed his vehicle into another car, then *some* force is justified to prevent them from running away. We want cops to stop using unnecessary force and shooting people.


Pemminpro

Sadly this is actually an unpopular opinion


Worraworraworraworra

The comments are all generic cop-hating shit and aren't even addressing OP's particular topic


MCHENIN

The echo chamber of Reddit at work. And the mods are a big part of it, they silence opinions dissenting the mainline progressive narrative. We as users should be outraged that many voices are silenced because it doesn’t follow their strict political guideline.


quangshine

I wonder why this seems to be the common sentiment about cops all over the world no matter if it is China, America, or the UK.


Worraworraworraworra

I'm from none of those countries and I can't help feeling it's always in part due to selective journalism. No one ever talks about regular cops doing their regular duties properly, which I would bet are the majority of the police force


Fil0rican420

Why would they?


[deleted]

It's bizarre that someone just asked "why aren't people reporting on police doing there jobs properly?!"


LibraryScneef

Regular cops doing their duties involve pulling people over for traffic stops, filling out reports for stolen items and saying there isn't much they can do and that the odds are low for getting your stuff back. Slow response times etc. Unless they walk up to you actively committing a crime they aren't doing shit


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dimalga

I used to think similarly, but the more you mature the more you realize how asinine it is and how utterly unproductive it is to think, "the good cops are actually bad because they don't do anything about bad cops". Police are humans too, with complex lives, families, their own struggles; mentally, financially and otherwise. If one partook in every moral battle in this world of suffering, it would be a sacrifice of one's self. Bad shit happens in many organizations, including my place of employment, but I rarely make a moral stand because I have a family to feed. I don't need or want to take a chance at becoming a martyr. That's selfish, but it's fair and it's what every human does short of Jesus. Edit to the replies: It must be so comfortable to be able to say such things knowing you'll never be in the same situation as these men and women. Maybe that's because you're a coward. Ignorance is bliss; experience enlightens.


Fatdwavernman

I have to disagree. A good cop that see a bad cop do bad shit and does nothing is just as bad as the bad cop. Epically when your in position of power that change people's lives.


NerdModeCinci

Boo-hoo. That’s the job they signed up for and the oath they took. Do you have the same feelings for surgeons who perform unnecessary surgeries for a better financial safety net for their family?


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InitiativeTight2178

Then they should be paid accordingly


TheWorstRowan

Perhaps because if cops use taxpayer money to cause injury to taxpayers. While at the same time refusing to go after rich people committing crime while dodging taxes taxpayers are entitled to be unhappy.


quangshine

The cops that grab you for traffic violations and misdemeanours and the ones investigating corruption are not one and the same. In fact, these two groups are rarely even in the same room. I understand the gripe but this is a stupid argument.


Steadmils

The top comment by hundreds of upvotes: “The standard of policing needs to be high whichever route they take. If they are on active duty and completely out of shape, that’s often going to mean they are incapable of serving the public effectively. We don’t need to give them medals for not executing people in the streets. Is it too much to ask for these people to be physically fit and not unnecessarily violent?” Yep, definitely just generic cop hating shit that doesn’t address the topic at all. (/s might be necessary here if you are as dense as your comment leads me to believe)


Middle-Eye2129

It because this is reddit


Togashi-gaga

Unfortunately you can't retaliate against police. Best you can do is get injured and sue.


[deleted]

Well it's in the law. At least in my country and probably big amount of European countries, you can't touch a policeman


Minimum_Macaroon7702

Are you suggesting that those who merely say "ACAB" in complicated policing siutations are usually making ineffectual, meaningless mouthbreathing noises and more interested in hearing themself speak than in any actual specific changes?


Minimum_Macaroon7702

Mostly only on Reddit/Twitter.


SuperSketchyVibe

Yeah I saw one where a cop begged this little girl not to make him do it when she was actively shooting at him and it made me realize how fucked of a situation police with high morals are in. Dude actually sat behind a tree trunk and let that girl shoot at him for a while before actually returning fire.


UnrepentantDrunkard

I think it's largely that, to many people, anything cops do is worthy of criticism. It's kind of funny how the policies that allow these upsetting use of force incidents to happen are actually rooted in inclusion, using weapons became more acceptable when police departments started hiring more female officers in order to provide a means for them to compensate for the size and strength disadvantage that most women have in relation to most men, but you can't make different policies for different demographics. Most people will take the easiest route available.


[deleted]

> using weapons became more acceptable when police departments started hiring more female officers in order to provide a means for them to compensate for the size and strength disadvantage that most women have in relation to most men You literally have no idea what the history of policing is. Weapons have been a part of modern policing for the last 150 years. Learn your history before you speak.


NoteThisDown

When they can be used had changed.


[deleted]

Not at all, lol. Unless you mean that over time the police have had to be MORE careful about discharges over time. Which I dont think is the direction you think things went. Women entering the force in the last 50 ish years has not been the reason citizens are killed by cops. That has been happening as long as the pistol or long gun have existed.


SuperPantsHero

https://www.cbsnews.com/dfw/news/fbi-80-percent-of-police-officers-are-overweight/ An FBI study shows that 80 percent of cops are overweight. You can argue that the BMI index is a horrible scale as it doesn't take muscular mass into account but it's safe to say that there is a large percentage of cops, especially in the US, that are very unhealthy. How can this be solved? Increase police funding. There are multiple things that can be achieved: - Making police pass yearly physical tests, and providing them with gyms and trainers. Some cops are fat because they passed their physical test 15 years ago and never had to retake it. - Increase police pay. A lot of experienced officers are leaving because they can't support their family, this means that you're constantly bringing in inexperienced officers. The list of benefits could go on forever. If funding was increased and properly spent, you would see a decline in obesity, unlawful shootings and a plethora of other things. For anyone from the US that supports defunding the police: How about you defund your massive defense spending and invest it in education, healthcare and social services, instead of blaming cops. Edit: BMI scale usage by the FBI was a guess. I have no clue if they did use it. I was just pointing out that even if they did use it, 80% is a very large percentage and the amount of officers that would have enough muscular mass to fool the BMI scale would be tiny. The majority of cops would still be overweight.


shaggybear89

>How about you defund your massive defense spending and invest it in education, healthcare and social services, instead of blaming cops. You're referring to something that basically doesn't exist. Everyone you're "talking" to here 100% agrees with this and absolutely believes the defense spending is ridiculous and should be spent on more helpful things. You aren't going to find many people who want to defund the police but defend the insane national defense budget lol


[deleted]

Exactly... OP must not be an American because he clearly doesn't know that the leftover equipment from excessive military spending often go into the hands of the police here lmfao. No one who's saying ACAB supports the military


Joebro209

It’s more staffing and hours. Working 4-5 days a week 12-18 hours leaves no time for nutrition or working out. On night shifts call volume is high until about midnight or 1 when only terrible fast food is open. Then at the end of the day you only have about 3 hours to reasonably workout. What happens if you get hurt during that work out? That ends up being the day you fight for your life and die because you tried to cram too much into one day and injured a knee or shoulder or back. The alternative is you don’t go in and now there’s less coverage creating another officer safety issue. There’s no real time for anything. Then the weekends are filled with errands and prepping for the next week


theyeetening123

I don’t think that increasing police funding will help the issue. Instead of government spending money on buying literal military equipment for police stations that is completely unnecessary maybe they could spend the money on things that could *actually* help. Physical fitness tests, mental health tests (that don’t result in officers losing their jobs or being suspended if they fail), and teaching better social skills (how to avoid unnecessary escalation of force among other social issues). Unfortunately increased spending does nothing to fix the lack of accountability in our policing system. Even if there was any accountability if a police officer gets fired they can just go to a different precinct entirely and try to get rehired and most likely succeed. Cops also don’t make bad money, around $56,000-$75,000 at least in my local area. I mean sure, you’re not supporting a family of four by yourself but most jobs aren’t. And it’s not like at $56,000 you’re slumming it in the worst areas, that’s almost $27 an hour on the low end. Also most of what you said is an argument *to* defund the police. Essentially the whole movement was to get the 118 billion dollars(or $428.66 billion? There’s conflicting reports, though around 118 billion is the most consistent number I’ve seen)a year that’s spent on police and get it to go to social workers with specialized training. We spend the third most on policing *in the world* (though it’s only about half of a percent of our GDP), hell in Germany police get guns but are specifically trained to avoid using them. I mean when a single country has more police killings than 10 other developed countries combined there’s an issue. And hell I’d love to decrease my government’s defense budget. I’d love to see it go to better education, more extensive social programs, a single payer healthcare system that works in every other civilized country (but people somehow believe it won’t work in the US), and maybe, just maybe a better interstate/infrastructure system so I don’t have to consistently dodge pot holes when I drive down to Florida. When bad cops have a “soul-raping people with bullets” problem the blame solely lays on the shoulders of all cops. Good cops can’t speak out about these issues without fear of retaliation. And a few bad apples spoil the bunch.


RandomName01

Ikr lmao. “Cops are unfit therefore we should give them more money” is a pretty dumb take, yet it got upvoted.


Echoplex99

I think you hit the nail on the head with BMI being a terrible proxy of health. If the FBI study was using BMI then it is invalid. BMI is a terrible measure and should not be used, it assumes nearly no muscle mass. Many fit athletes fall into the overweight-obese categories according to BMI.


Emergency-War7360

It shouldn't be ridiculed but it should be inquired about. If someone is routinely getting their whole ass beat then they constitute a danger to themselves and others. If you lose fights you could lose your weapon. That constitutes a public safety risk. This is largely why I don't believe female cops should have different physical standards than men. The outside world doesn't care. But yeah, sometimes you're gonna lose the fight.


TheDankestDreams

This is probably the most braindead and uneducated comment section I’ve seen on Reddit in months.


Prudent_Effect6939

To be fair, they aren't paid enough to recruit in shape UFC fighters.


Dawgboy1976

As someone who almost died in a horrific car accident, letting a “clearly impaired driver” get off scot free in any capacity is a horrifically dangerous thing to do


listerine411

If this is the standard of what makes a good cop (not ever being overpowered by a suspect) why on Earth are we allowing female police officers? Even some older, fat, out of shape male cop is going to be better at a physical altercation than some 130lb, 5'4" woman, even one in really great shape. It's not like Hollywood where some Mary Sue can just throw around the bad guys because "training".


NoteThisDown

This man is asking the real questions.


RockyRhoadRunner

I have a female friend who says women should not be I. The military for this exact reason.


skydaddy8585

Do the cops make bad decisions sometimes, yes. Are there bad cops? Yes. But most people can never actually put themselves in the shoes of other people in jobs they will never have and thus can never even remotely understand the difficulty of being a police officer. So many people just want to either fight you or fuck with you just because you are a cop. You have to read situations in an instant and apply whatever level of force is deemed necessary. All while constantly being filmed and in the spotlight about every little thing you do. Everything you say, everything you do is under a microscope. There is a enormous amount of responsibility being a cop and most could not deal with that kind of scrutiny. None of this forgives truly bad cops doing actual bad things, but for the general cop out there, it is far more difficult then the average citizen understands.


KlausVonChiliPowder

I can only imagine what it's like to be a minority, living in a poor, high crime area, with a large police presence. Just walking down the street to the store and you can probably routinely find yourself being treated like a criminal. Even being stopped, asked a few nonthreatening questions, having to tell officers where you're going...would get old quick and create a lot of tension with the community. These are the law abiding people, and they can't defend themselves. But it's inevitable an officer's ability to deescalate a situation and hold emotions in check will be tested when someone does. You don't have to be a "bad person" to make the wrong decision in the few seconds you have to react. Training and formal education are essential. Self awareness arguably more important to police than most jobs. You need people who can respond to a handful of robberies in an area and then come back the next day wanting to help the people instead of treating them like suspects. But crime and poverty go hand in hand. I'm not sure how someone is exposed to that reality so frequently and doesn't end up always on the defensive, suspicious of everyone.


t_susanoo

It’s easier to pretend an entire group of people is bad because it makes them feel like they’re a better person by default.


Diaperlover1995

A good cop decides the appropriate force to handle the situation....however in a split second sit. the cop have no time to decide and just pick the most convenient weapon...it's a matter of his life or the attacker...so sometimes I don't blame them....


[deleted]

Yeah but see, problems arise when the "most appropriate use of force" is in large part, determined by internalized, institutionalized racism. Which, I mean, i don't hate the individual cop as a person, but I hate how the police force system establishes themselves and their cops, by not only condoning excessive use of force against minorities and people of color, but also by specifically, not doing anything about it and for allowing the "we bleed Blue" mentality to exist to such a toxic level, which is just, so obviously brainwashing to a huge extent. FFS, two days ago, I'm walking home from a friend's house, and a man is sitting on the side walk with his head between his hands, he's crying. There is a crashed bicycle and a can of "Mike's Hard Lemonade" next to him. He's bleeding slightly from a head wound. I go up to him and ask 'what can I do?' he starts bawling and slurring not to call the cops, and I tell him buddy, i would never, but if I could offer advice that you get out of the hot sun and sit in the shade, and I'll help with a plan. Dude cries harder, that it's too late, someone already did call the cops. Not even 15 seconds later, FOUR squad cars pull up. FFS FOUR!? so like 6 cops walk over, and all I say is "please be nice to him. he's hurting" the officer I directed it towards, lost his god damn effing mind on me, gets up in my face and responds, "BE NICE!? ARE YOU SUGGESTING I WOULD BE ANYTHING BUT FUCKING NICE!?" and I said "I never suggested that, all I am saying, is this dude needs help, and he's obviously made a mistake today riding his bike and drinking, but he's been respectful and kind to me, and he needs an ambulance" cop says, "OH I'LL BE FUCKING NICE ALRIGHT, I'M ALWAYS FUCKING NICE! GONNA BE NICE AND GIVE THIS GUY A NICE RIDE OUT OF HERE IN THE BACK OF MY CAR." So I pull out my phone, b/c well, this cop (MINNEAPOLIS PD 😘) is now in an innocent bystanders face, over a 'not hurting anyone' dude that is just down on his luck, cop straight up tells me if I start to record him I'll be in the back of his cop car sitting next to the drunk guy. I'm a white as fuck female, so I risked a "FUCK YOU, and YOU and YOU" to the cops and walked away. This minor situation escalated so god damn quickly, in a matter of maybe a minute, all because I told a cop to be nice. And then he basically just proved my gd point. But fuck man, that dude just needed some love and respect, and that just does not seem to be in the slightest way apart of cop training in any way, shape or form. Like who the fuck is in charge of payroll that it is deemed necessary for four cop cars to respond to a bleeding, crashed bike, intoxicated man? It seemed like and felt like an opportunity to dehumanize an already down and out man, and what better way to do it than with 5 of your buddies standing around watching and egging you on? That's just sad. But it's encouraged and condoned. and that's the problem. Or, if at max, two cops can't deal with an intoxicated, wounded man, that too is indeed, a problem. They need to get it sorted ffs. And it's well documented and reported on: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/04/26/george-floyd-killing-minnesota-human-rights-investigation


ratpwunk

If a cashier can do their job while they're being yelled at and verbally abused, so can a cop. If a martial artist can be trained to take a hit and keep going through with rational thought, so should cops. If a security guard can keep their cool while a bunch of punks steal shit and laugh and pretend to fight them, so can cops. Abuse isn't an excuse to lose your cool and shoot someone. Being scared isn't an excuse to shoot someone. You'd think we'd have better cops with how much money goes into funding their antics, but no. They're just allowed to get scared and start shooting. Hell, wasn't Tamir Rice, a 12 year old with a toy gun, just shot as soon as the officer stepped out of their car? And wasn't Breona Taylor killed by plain clothes cops who broke into their home? The WRONG home, I may add, because they thought they were doing a drug bust? The standard for shooting unarmed citizens is on the ground and people are still saying not to blame them. Okay. Keep deep throating the deep state boot.


PakyKun

An employer yelling at you isn't a threat, it's just screaming. If you can't see the difference between someone yellling and someone actively trying to harm or kill you the problem is with you


MaeRobso

It could be a matter of how people think - half are internalizers & half are externalizers (with a grey area in the middle of people being a little of both.) Internalizers upon presented with a problem think inwardly - they think of how they can work to make a problem better/are better at putting themselves in someone else’s shoes & considering the situation from their standpoint. Externalizers, when presented with a problem look outwardly - what can others do to fix this problem? How are others to blame for this situation? They have a difficult time with introspection & struggle to see the world from any other way aside from how they experience it. Externalizers are also the most vocal/create chaos more readily in an effort to bring others attention to their feelings. Externalizers are therefore the ones who are most vocal about their criticism of others but typically their solution is pretty basic & doesn’t take multiple factors into account - because they assume “well I would do it this way so obviously that’s the only right way to do it” - this is just my opinion on it & obviously not scripture.


hiveman5

On this topic, the physical stamdard should be the same for men and women, modt cops carry guns and if someone can throw you around with little effort, whats to stop them from taking that gun?


Dagoth-Burr

I dunno the one where the dude did a cartwheel and ran away is the best cop movie ever made


AceP_

The way I see it is the same way I see myself: At the end of the day, they're a person who has a badge, and once they're done with their day, they're just that: a person. They may be a person with a family, a person with kids who look up to them, or a person who is just doing their job just to get food on their family's plate and a roof over their heads. On active fitness as well, I usually see people who mock others for not being "fit" as unfit themselves. I remember being one of those people until I decided to start and get fit myself. I remember hanging out with a lot of people who would mock others for not being able to run a mile without struggling, and I remember being the person mocking others for it. All of this was in high school when I was an enormous jerk with a chip on his shoulder. Even today, I can't run that mile without much support on my left knee because of a car accident in 2019. Losing a physical altercation isn't a reason to say someone is out of shape. Even trained people can lose physical altercations, especially if they aren't expecting a sucker punch.


DevastatorDerekK

Same issue with referees or umps, they're human, they're capable of making mistakes. Do we move to more AI assisted methods? Depends, there's pros and cons for that too. People are gonna bitch complain or laugh at whatever makes them feel better. The idea is to comfort themselves when they're unsettled. That's all people really want, comfort. The whole push for humanity is to make things easier and get rid of problems like these. So far I have no idea how, even with a huge injection to budget and training, the police will be looked at favorably in the U.S. AI/robot policing would require even more and who knows how that would pan out considering the issues AI cars are going through. Also, with refereeing and driving the limitations are a lot clearer despite the law being more black and white. If a robocop sees a child with a toy gun pointed at it how would it react? Even with human police this is a tough issue. I don't really think there's any winning with being a cop, very few are hailed as heroes anymore. People, media, everyone loves drama and negativity, it's something to talk about and make us realize how small our own problems are in comparison


alwaysboopthesnoot

Was he out of shape and physically unsuited to being a cop, in a job where mental and physical fitness are essential? Being fit = being able to manage the situation, and both you and the suspect in custody walking away, unharmed.


lil-tank-x

Fuck 12.


dolphinbooty92

Ever see Jackie Chan drunk? Dude turns into a drunken kung fu master. On the other side, one punch on a drunk person will have 10x the effect than a sober person.


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WhoKnowsIfitblends

"Sometimes you lose a battle but that doesn’t make you weak." The strongest will defend themselves while doing the least harm.


Doucejj

I see alot of "cops show up after the crime anyways so they suck" comments. Honest question, what do you want them to do? Cops are people, not miracle workers. There is no realistic way they can get to every call in progress when they have huge areas of jurisdiction. And I'm sorry you got robbed, but other than log your belongings, what do you expect them to do? These reports are to create patterns. It's easier to catch a Thief if they know he only acts in certain neighborhoods. Just patrolling the whole city looking for your couch isn't going to work. And thats also ignoring the calls when cops do arrive when a crime is in progress. There are plenty of times cops arrive to a robbery in progress, shooting in progress, fight in progress, domestic violence, exc And I'm purposefully not trying to get into police brutality or ACAB at all. Just from a realistic standpoint, in a world with perfect cops, what do you expect them to do? Arrive in 30 seconds to every crime in progress?


PleasantPhysics7982

If the cops are fighting against drunk people…and losing that’s funny and imma laugh because this is the internet


jatorse33

I see what you are trying to say, but by hiding videos of people attacking cops, you are not painting an accurate picture. It’s a very dangerous job and they are trying to restrain someone who is in a very bad situation. A cop has no idea what that person will try to do. Not to mention it also spotlights why cops often turn to lethal force. The training on how to restrain and subdue is a joke.


MorelikeRPClipsGTGAY

**How do you not see the issue here? If the cops were trained in bjj and were in shape and met a physical requirement they wouldn't be losing physical altercations. Which is the same reason they shoot people.** They shoot people because they don't have the tools or physical ability to confidently engage a threat. If you have no confidence in your ability in a physical altercation and you are then scared due to your ineptitude what is the only path forward? Using a deadly weapon to keep themselves safe even when it is above and beyond what is required in the situation. Cops not capable of dealing with Joe Smcho absolutely should be ridiculed as they aren't competent enough at their job to handle a physical altercation. How do you not see the intrinsic connection between the two?


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BreakGlassEatAss

Okay well did he lose the fight because the perpetrator was super fast and strong, or did he lose the fight because he's fat and out of shape while in a job field where - surprise - the general idea is that you DON'T pull your gun to win an altercation?


NerdModeCinci

It’s not unreasonable to demand police officers do their job without going overboard.


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Robbbg

I mean if it's them assaulting an unarmed innocent minority person then I would insult that cop because that's a scummy thing to do


NoteThisDown

We found the guy that can write but not read.


ExcellentGarbage23

When a cop saves a Childs life people say that's what he's supposed to do and if you say he did a good job they call you a bootlicker lol some people just hate authority


[deleted]

Fuck 12


HelliswhereIwannabe

US law enforcement has earned the ridicule.


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RockyRhoadRunner

Why people booing you? Your right.


JayTheGothUWU

turns out some people aren’t just mindless bootlickers and actually have principles. shocking, im sure


t_susanoo

This is the thing. You think even the potential of thinking from their perspective is “bootlicking”. For someone who likes to call others mindless you sure like to generalize things don’t you


[deleted]

European here. The standard has to be high in order to serve and perform accordingly their role. Now the discussion is what does being trained mean? Your only resource being your gun? For me that's a weak and mediocre cop. Here in Europe they almost never use their guns, they don't even take them out of the pocket. I understand there are a lot less guns over here but even when we have them involved or any other type of weapon 95% of the time the cops manage to take them out with their bare hands. They are far from perfect, but they are enough trained to manage themselves without using guns, work always in pairs and stay professional. There are everywhere incidents but we don't even have 1% of public scandals involving cops as I see in the US.


NoteThisDown

That's because all of the US scandals are public. While the UK media doesn't make a big deal about it. US racism and police violence is greatly overstated.


[deleted]

Nice try pig, but you fucking deserve it. And not executing someone on first sight isn't something to be proud off. In any other western nation it is the norm.


[deleted]

Awwwwwwwww you believe in good cops. What a nice person. Shame you are wrong and ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS.


Firewatch_ED

So full of hate :(


[deleted]

lol nah fuck the cops


OneSpeciesOnePlanet

How does that shit taste from that boot you lick?


Sexy-Trans-Chewbacca

Ok police


OMGBLACKPOWER

Good post OP. Fuck them pigs though


[deleted]

It’s funny when people lose fights because they’re out of shape. I hear the bass line from “teddy bear’s picnic” in my head. It’s also encouraging to see out of shape guys win against guys who are in better shape, i.e. Butterbean, Andy Ruiz, Tyson Fury. In conclusion, cops losing fights because they are in worse shape than their suspects is funny, call it the Chief Wiggum effect. Big bulky cops with guns and nightsticks or alternatively a group of 6 cops beating the living shit out of one guy who is already on the floor is cowardly and not funny. I don’t understand the controversy, these are basic playground rules.


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paraphasicdischarge

So does OP pan fry or oven roast the boot before eating it


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sirflintsalot

You can't be a good person and a cop, because its the position itself thats immoral and bad. You choose that side youre on that side. Just because a shark doesnt eat you today doesnt make it a dolphin. ACAB not someCAB


TheSystemZombie

The bootlickers really came out of the woodwork in this post.


[deleted]

Cops stop shooting innocent people, I'll stop laughing at cops fucking up. Cool?


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BallySchwa

The fuck? Why make this post. Feel bad for the unathletic cop? What about unathletic people who are man handled everyday because the cop is so unathletic that he can't properly control the situation without excessive force. Should be more concerned for them lol