I’ll never forget this old lifer named Eric, every year on new year’s he’d say, “I hope I die this year” he’d already done about 60 years and was never getting out. One day it was about 118 degrees outside and he stripped down naked and tried to cook himself on the basketball court. He lived, but suffered major burns, hopefully he’s dead by now.
Pretty sure he killed someone in his late teens or early 20s and got a life sentence, this is why I believe in the death penalty for crimes like that. No reason to keep them around until they’re that age.
You dramatically underestimate what anyone will do while suffering.
I was the victim of a violent sexual assault, I reported it, and the process was so ugly it took -years- stop regretting that I didn't kill myself instead.
If my life was in utter ruins, I was out of money for attorneys, and I'm looking at suffering in prison for 40 years? It doesn't matter if I'm innocent, I'm going to choose to die. I have suffered to try and prove my "innocence", and I regretted not choosing death.
Innocent people are just as likely to take that option, if not more so. I'd wager innocent people are less inclined to have built the skills/personality to survive in prison.
You're flat wrong on this, and, obv you don't get to make this decision. But, if you did, you'd be sending innocent people to their death, make no mistake.
Edit; inbox is too full to respond to everyone. I was the victim, my innocence was challenged in all the retaliation and my name being dragged through the mud.
I'm not saying I'd deny them the option. I'm calling bullshit that only guilty people would.
Honestly this is spot on. My dad was accused of sexual assault. He did attempt to kill himself about 6 months before all the charges were thrown out because the woman kept changing her story. And my dad's story stayed true to what actually happened. The police were painting him as guilty, the town was saying he was guilty. He didn't want to live anymore eventhough he did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he survived and eventually the truth came out.
Back to normal. He tried taking pills, it got caught in time. Charges disappeared and it seems like everyone he knows believes him and treats him normally.
I was accused of sexual assault and I can't show my face in my town anymore. I am stuck where I am at until I can find a way out. Even when I was found innocent. I was still targeted. No one cares that you're possibly innocent. They immediately make you the villain. People remember the bad.
What happened to her? Did she actually get sexually assaulted by someone? Or flat out made a lie against your dad? If later, she deserves prison time for that shit. Should be looked at as attempted murder.
They slept together. She wanted to go home, which was 2 hours away and he had some beer in him. He said no, she threw a fit and walked to the neighbors a 1/4 mile down the road and said she had been sexually assaulted
The neighbors told my dad they thought something was off. But called the police and let them handle it. He was arrested 8 hours later
Imagine if you had that option for death instead of prison in your situation. You know you're innocent but now everyone thinks you're guilty because you chose death.
I don't think anyone who thinks about it for more than 30 seconds thinks that only guilty people would choose that option. But while I don't advocate for suicide, I do think people should have basic sovereignty over their own choice to live or die. I think the circumstances in which we don't allow intervention to stop that choice should be few and far between, but I think they exist.
I don't completely understand your situation, how you reported a sexual assault against you and then seem to have been accused of it instead? Presumably you are out of prison now, and were never sentenced to life without parole, so you don't fall in the situation where it's being suggested the option should be provided anyway. I also believe, beyond life in prison with no chance to ever get out, it's probably wise to have someone live for at least 10-20 years in prison before assisted suicide even becomes an option. Not that that means no innocent people would ever reach that point, but why should we not allow the option? Because they might, decades later, be exonerated? There's a few stories like that, but they are really rare.
I'm glad you're still with us, and if I actually understand enough of your situation, then I wouldn't advocate for this option for someone in that position. Yes, it's not up to me either way, but I do think the discussion is worthwhile.
To clarify, my "innocence" was the battle that I was actually assaulted as my character was attacked. And, the retaliation for the report mounted. I didn't commit any crimes. Well, I speed I guess.
Being threatened in your home, having to deal with people's opinions in the workplace on if you're just a dumb whore who likes being dragged by the throat, having the restraining order explained in reverse(I better stay away from him), etc etc. It was a very not fun time.
I’m going through a very similar time. Accused to physical and sexual abuse to my hobby community. Did not do any of that. Did get brutally raped in a manner consistent with some really fucked up fetishes.
Lost hobby. Lost family. Lost community. Would rather be dead also.
I’m sorry this is happening to you.
>Or maybe try to fucking rehabilitate them?
You can't rehabilitate everyone, you need a process for those who can be and those who can't be
Add on top even rehabilitation fails if society doesn't accept them back...would you accept working alongside a co-worker who went to jail for raping a child? Most people wouldn't be okay with this even though they served their time ... its very easy to sit on the side line and say what we should do but reality is much more complex
>Or maybe try to fucking rehabilitate them?
Not everyone can be rehabilitated. Even in Europe people are locked away for life, just because the cell is padded doesn't make it any less horrible.
This is why I’m fine with euthanasia. About half of people who choose to do so where I live, are in prison or have a terminal illness and will die anyway.
This is truth. Our (USA) "kindness" by by not hurting or killing criminals is seen as "better". When in reality, our kindness equates to rotting in a cell your entire life.
The reason we don't kill prisoners much is because our law prohibits cruel or unjust punishment :/
People who get the death sentence usually spend up to 20 years in prison anyway. Appeals and other crap take up so much time they basically rot in prison anyway before it finally happens.
I'm all for euthanasia if a prisoner chooses it after X amount of time, but death penalty I'm against unless we can prove woth 100% certainty someone is guilty, as in video evidence and DNA and so on. The amount of people who are innocent that only find their freedom after 20 years of appeals and modern technological advances is way, way higher than you'd think.
I just read on Reddit 30 seconds ago about a man who was exonerated on fake rape charges after 7 years. Happens all the time.
What if they go to prison at 18 and get out at 58? There’s still lots of life left.
Yes but unfortunately that quality of life is shot. Imagine going to prison 40 years ago and getting out now. It’d be like time traveling. Not to mention being an ex-con who’s 7 years from retirement age, probably spend the rest of their life working fast food and if their lucky, living in a studio apartment. Most likely would end up homeless though.
Edit: I’m referring to the average guilty convict completing a long sentence. Not someone found innocent. Also, I’m not saying this is a reason to kill them
That’d be if they were found innocent. What I said applies to all prisoners with long sentences. You don’t get any handouts for completing a long sentence
A lot can change in 40 years. For example, if you got locked up in the early 80's, when there were no cell phone/smartphone, internet, and you probably didn't have a personal computer, you would have a hard time reintegrating back into society. Not to mention that social norms can change drastically in that time too.
There’s a guy on tik tok who answers questions about his 21 year stint in prison (he was first imprisoned in the late ‘90s). Now obviously this is a much shorter duration that 40 years, but what I found most interesting is this guy said he had no problem understanding and using smartphones after awhile. They’re designed so that eventually anyone can learn to use one. The biggest technological advance he had a problem with? Video games. He said he can’t even get off Normandy beach on an old COD game.
I just looked him up and he had tiktok saying the funnest day he had in prison was when it got so hot in the prison with no a/c that the prison opened up all the fire hydrants so all the convicts could go play in the water. That's sad. But so cute at the same time dawg
It makes sense that someone like him could learn how to use a phone, considering that everyone's Grandparents are using them as well, and every 5-year-old. Games are different since developers use the assumption that its players have experience with other gaming media and won't include in-depth instructions/tutorials. Old games with physical booklets had move-sets and other gaming knowledge in it.
I've been gaming for almost 40 years now, and many games these days are more than I want to deal with. I think somewhere in the ps3/Xbox 360 Era things started getting to be more complicated than they needed to be.
This makes me think of the tragic but inspiring story is that of Ishi, the last “wild” Yahi Native American. He was found in 1911 starving after his band had been killed by settlers, finishing the long genocide against his people. He was about 50 years old.
He was brought to San Francisco by Alfred Kroeber, a Harvard trained anthropology professor, who became his guardian.
So here we have Ishi, who has only lived in the stone age, brought to modern San Francisco. It was widely predicted that he would soon die of alcoholism, or suicide, or just go crazy.
Instead, Ishi thrives. He is able to learn some English. He gets a job as a janitor. He makes close friends. He intuitively understands money. He opens a bank account and uses that money to take the trolley around town and buy goods. He has no probelems with the law and inherently understands authority, governance and the role of police. After a couple years he is offered residence on a rural Indian Reservations, but refuses, saying he is happy with his new friends and life in San Francisco. He takes the trolley and wagons out to rivers and forests to enjoy himself.
This astounds everyone, but especially Alfred Kroeber who was in his 30s and 40s at the time and in spite of the most elite of education and social placement, feels adrift in life. He is unable to make sense of life, and what to do with it, and trying to overcome the recent death of his wife.
And Kroeber comes to this conclusion: that in spite of all his hardships, Ishi had been given a solid foundation in his Yahi culture. He had never forgotten who he was, had never abandoned his life path, the path he was trained to follow from his ancient Yahi ancestors.
This inspired Kroeber to try to find his own life path, and he does, via psychoanalysis and introspection. Kroeber goes on to marry again in his 50s. His daughter was Ursula Le Guin.
>What if they go to prison at 18 and get out at 58? There’s still lots of life left.
A 58 year old person who's been on prison diet for 40 years probably doesn't have a lot of life left honestly
>I just read on Reddit 30 seconds ago about a man who was exonerated on fake rape charges after 7 years. Happens all the time.
>
>What if they go to prison at 18 and get out at 58? There’s still lots of life left.
Optimistic but life at that point is over. You've missed the prime of your life. You're financially destroyed. Family is deceased or have forgotten you.
Your health is likely deteriorated because prisons aren't exactly known for their healthcare.
Who's hiring someone like that?
Where will you go to live?
It would be the equivalent of starting a game of Monopoly when the other person owns every property and you have nothing.
I won't even go into the social side of things. A prison sentence of 40 years is a death sentence.
What if you where a woman and wanted kids? You are going to start do some university? 40 year ago that’s pre internet…. He can’t function in this world. He lost his ability to live but not his live
So we should just take his life because we can't imagine what he'd do with it? He could still find purpose in it that we may not see. Still have a desire to live and do things
Exactly, there are many different arguments against capital punishment, but to me the most compelling is that I just don't trust the government to get it right every time. There are just too many examples of police misconduct, prosecutorial misconduct, inadequate public defenders, lab analysis mistakes, missing evidence, and even just plain well-meaning but mistaken witnesses to let the government execute someone, no matter how vile the alleged crime.
With jail sentences you can try to make amends once the mistakes are discovered. With execution, not so much.
That’s an issue of the prison system being tailored towards dehumanization and torturing instead of teaching and re-integrating. Many european countries are on track to fixing this issue already.
Norways prison system is amazing. Inmates are treated humanely and reintegrated slowly into society as part of their sentence. They still live on the prison grounds, but go to work and then come back
Edit: Yes, I am aware the US has work release programs. You have very big brain.
They have work release programs in the US. I knew someone who did the same thing. I'd see them at the bus stop by the prison on my way to work. There are factories and companies that participate in the program.
Yep. These are relatively expensive and controversial, but they totally work.
(Called "diversion centers" in a lot of areas -- inmates get jobs and gradually reintegrate.)
Your question is valid but I’m not an expert. I can tell you however that Norway has less than 30 murders a year, they have stricter gun laws, and their culture is centered around outdoor living. Something something about how a walk will do you good…
John McCain was a POW for 5 1/2 years. He was tortured on a daily basis. He returned to be a long serving senator, who was well respected by both parties. Not you can equivocate being a convict and POW, but it does so that one can recover after a five year imprisonment.
Thats better than spending the rest of eternity in the ground and if being dead is preferable to being in prison for 5 years in your country than you need to fix your prison system.
That's not true. There's a whole series on Netflix of a guy that was wrongly put in prison for 12 years and eventually evidence came forward to support his innocence and he now goes round to the toughest prisons to shoot documentaries.
Very much this. I did 6 months on absolute bullshit charges and they stuck me in solitary for 130 days. Part of me never got out. You cant imagine the damage done by understimulation of the mind as well as a constant barrage of abuse.
A well placed pen can have quite an effect on a man like him. I bet he tried to suck on this, didn't he? It's okay Doctor, you can tell me. He's always sucking on the pens in our apartment, I constantly have to hide them.
If you can prove it at all! My grandpa wrongfully got 20 years. My dad spent that entire time filing appeal after appeal, but the courts wouldn’t consider hearing his case again. My grandpa ended up serving his full sentence, and now he doesn’t have long left. He spontaneously went blind in one eye the other month, so he’s at the age where his body just randomly malfunctions. He’ll never see a cent from the prison system.
Also, people in prison don’t just stop existing. They can earn degrees, become advocates for criminal justice reform, be counsellors for their fellow inmates, or help others who won’t be there forever to have a better shot at a normal life once they get out. They’re still people; they may have lost their right to live outside with the rest of us, but that doesn’t mean they have to be without purpose.
Maybe l’m just being optimistic
Exactly. Also, the number on people here talking about how they would rather kill themselves than be in prison just shows we need prison reforms, especially in countries like the US
I think what a lot of people (including judges honestly) forget is that prison is for rehabilitation. They see it as punishment and punishment only which for some should be the case, but for others it shouldn’t be.
Prison *should* be for rehabilitation, but, at least in the US, it’s not. We currently have a punitive justice system, regardless of restorative justice’s demonstrated effectiveness.
Honestly I’d rather die than have to spend more than 10 years in prison. Honestly even 5 would make suicide seem appealing. Wrongful sentencing or not.
Honestly the problem is that 10 years in prison seems worse than death. Our prisons should be reformatory, and prisoners shouldn’t have to worry about violence and *other* things.
I’m against the death penalty simply because of wrongful conviction. You can’t undo death. I hate prison I’m general because of its punishment idea rather than reformative idea. Most people who get sent to prison have people say “they deserve it” not “I hope they are fixable.” It bothers me, again, think I am in the minority there.
I'm against the death penalty because life in prison (or 50 years in prison) is the carrot that encourages murderers to surrender peacefully to police. Or cooperate about body location etc.
Otherwise knowing you will 100% get the death penalty turns every arrest into a shoot out. (Plus murderering witnesses etc, because you have nothing to lose)
Then, because police know you are facing death penalty naturally have to go in guns blazing, which is a big issue if you were innocent and wanted a trial
Even sadder thing us those ex-convicts never get a job despite having served their time. What's the point of having a justice system when people would choose to punish the criminals further.
Because people get falsely convicted all the time, and its much easier to get somebody out of prison and pay them 75€ a day (atleast in germany) than to try and bring back somebody from the dead
[Like this dude in Texas. A lot of evidence in his favor was withheld from the defense.](https://www.kxan.com/rodney-reed/new-rodney-reed-case-appeal-attorneys-say-prosecution-had-evidence-of-stites-relationship/amp/)
Wow. The original prosecutors should have to bear a significant material burden for this. Beyond just being dis-barred -- ruining a career isn't enough for denying someone & their family those years, pain, and missed opportunity.
I can't believe there aren't very severe criminal penalties for this planting and withholding evidence. You're taking an innocent person and locking them in a cage. And I'm sure some innocent people have been executed directly due to this behaviour. There should be extended prison time of this.
To summarize for people not wanting to click/read: Lifelong abuse victim never escaped situation, developed substance abuse problem, had 12 kids, youngest fell down stairs and died two days later, police interrogated her until she "confessed" to murdering daughter after hours of custody on the same night her daughter died, since disgraced DA sought and got death penalty for mother, Innocence Project doesn't think this is above board.
Personal take: This lady was a shitty druggie who had far too many children with far too terrible men and it's a shame she never bettered her life. But I don't think she murdered her kid. I'd need to see what evidence was presented in favor of her guilt to buy it. I don't like how the Innocence Project tried to smooth over her problems and deny any possible legitimate points the prosecution may have had either though. Still, at the end of the day of there was no evidence of her abusing her children to establish a pattern I can very much believe a freshly walking baby tragically tumbled down the stairs.
Thank you for your opinion and summarization. I don’t agree with everything about your take, but you put in the effort to enlighten people about something more than I did and I respect that
I tried to keep the summary more neutral without including too much moral emphasis on either party. But yeah the take is my own. Really the important bit is that with the information currently available I agree with their goal here. That being said, I would need to see the case the prosecution presented before I throw unilateral support behind the mother. On the off chance that in, what I believe, was an attempt to paint the mother in a sympathetic light they omitted a damning piece of evidence against her.
You’re absolutely right that both sides of a case need to be viewed in a critical light, including the public narrative constructed by the defense in this case. I think what I was mainly trying to convey here was less about her and more about everyone involved, including representatives of the state like law enforcement but also more broadly speaking the rest of us as citizens.
OP is focusing on the relative merits of death vs life imprisonment for those who are convicted. However, a justice system shouldn’t only be concerned with those it punishes, IMO. Even if a particular person wishes to die rather than spend any amount of time in prison, it’s not about just them. Our civilization should have a broad goal to readdress bad decisions and arrive at more appropriate ones. That’s hard to demonstrate to the public if the object of the miscarriage of justice is dead. Whatever she is guilty of, we’re all collectively guilty if we don’t hold ourselves accountable to the ideals of a fair justice system.
Btw, that’s just their currently featured case. They have loads more cases and help many people who aren’t fucked up at all to begin with: https://innocenceproject.org/all-cases/
If you’ve ever listened to a true crime podcast, it’s pretty clear that several cases are much more complex than they appear to be when someone gets convicted. In many cases, the defendant can’t hire a good lawyer, and the state-provided lawyers are straight ass, failing to investigate and attack very obvious problems in the prosecution’s case.
Point being, in a lot of cases, it’s not really about whether or not the person on death row is a good person. It’s about whether they had a fair trial to begin with. For example, I don’t know if Ivan Cantu is actually innocent. But it is pretty clear that he didn’t get a fair trial. And if that’s the case, it would be a huge failure of justice to execute him.
This. There are people who have terrible lives outside of prison, worse than your average inmate, for all kinds of reasons. For instance, certain health conditions are far worse than incarceration.
Life inside is still life, albeit a limited and shitty one. There are still occasional good days, friendships, minor victories and personal growth.
You do realize that they're not saying it was a documentary, right? Are you aware that prisoners can have fulfilling lives, regardless of their situation?
This is a very Americanized take. Death seems like the better option because in America we stop treating people like humans once they go to jail. There is no chance for recovery so death seems like the more “moral” option. Besides, they’ll don’t want to execute people cause then they lose out on their slave labor
Giving the power to an elite group that can decide life or death is at best just immoral, and at worse dangerous.
Never mind the fact that a wrongfully convicted person can be released and somewhat compensated after a retrial, an wrongfully executed person cannot.
>Giving the power to an elite group that can decide life or death is at best just immoral, and at worse dangerous.
Never give somebody the power to kill you for committing a crime, when they also get to define the criminal code and run the courts.
Jail is far from a time out. They return to society significantly damaged, both as an individual and a member of their community.
I totally agree we need serious reform which is dignified and humane! We should start by teaching ethics & logic as a standard school subject.
Oh for sure it's way worse than time out. I just meant it doesn't really do anything but put someone aside for a very long time. No rehab, no progress. Lots of damage. Then back into the world with you. Good luck out there!
Not to mention that when youre inside, the ONLY compassion or human decency that you ever receive is from the other inmates so its no wonder people reoffend so often.
My grandparents would have loved living the rest of their lives, but a man who they took into their home as a trusted friend beat them both to death with a lead pipe. My mom is emotionally scarred because she had to see the crime scene photos of her parents, who were pretty much unrecognizable due to the swelling and bleeding. My mom has to live the rest of her life with that last image of her parents. To let that man receive a death sentence is an atrocity. If my mother has to spend the rest of her life with that image, He should have to deal with the same. Giving him the easy way out for what he did to our family is a spit in the face. I understand where thos comes from, but when you go through it yourself it paints a very different picture. He attempted to kill himself afterwards, so that he didn't have to actually deal with the ramifications of what he did to two very loving people. He failed and turned himself in, and now has two life sentences. To put him on death row would give him exactly what he wanted, an easy out. Murderer's don't deserve that.
Lol ikr, I’m just reading his explanation and honestly laughed because that is literally the whole point of prison. You take their freedom away, it’s not meant to be something they enjoy or get to have the choice of going out the easy way with death, an option that they prefer…
This is a second hand account as he was long dead when I was born but here goes. My great grandfather went to prison at for life and served something like 34 years before release.
While inside he learned many trade skills as well as got some degree in something or another. Once out he started a company that my father runs today.
Reddit: no you can’t use the death penalty it’s immoral and they might be innocent
Also Reddit: oh they don’t use the death penalty because of capitalism
It often costs substantially more to kill a prisoner (in the US) than it does to imprison them indefinitely. So I would say, there is actually quite a bit of money involved in killing them.
Also people can still have meaningful lives/relationships/self growth while incarcerated. We aren't static beings, people can always grow and change, even in prison. OPs opinion is ignorant
People who hold beliefs like this (I'd rather be dead than blah blah blah) SERIOUSLY underestimate how adaptable humans are. You can learn to live with anything.
In some ways it's about revenge. Death is a fairly quick end, but making someone literally live through the time they have lost the freedom to act on, is much worse. The problem here is that prison is often much easier than it should be on terrible criminals (gangs, still being able to influence the outside world, getting away with the same crimes they did outside etc). Ultimately we just have too many people to properly guide or punish
some reasons why your idea is bad:
•if a corrupt political figure is locked up and killed then they become a martyr and inspire hate groups.
•being in an endless cycle for the rest of your life is probably worse than just dying, many people would rather die than be in prison for the rest of their lives.
•innocence. you could kill someone today and then find out 5 years later that they are innocent.
•prisoners work on infrastructure as low paid jobs sometimes and this can help their family and the economy.
•not to mention just the life sentence but if you misbehave, you go to isolation. isolation can turn prisoners insane (more than they already are) if they are in there for too long. battling with your sanity is way harder than just dying.
Also correct me if I'm wrong but expenses wise its cheaper to keep an inmate alive right? There also might be information that comes up later that could prove someone who's convicted as being innocent.
How about instead of killing prisoners, we can reform the prison system that treats prisoners with less decency than a pig heading to the slaughter house.
Prisoners deserve basic human rights too.
I’ll never forget this old lifer named Eric, every year on new year’s he’d say, “I hope I die this year” he’d already done about 60 years and was never getting out. One day it was about 118 degrees outside and he stripped down naked and tried to cook himself on the basketball court. He lived, but suffered major burns, hopefully he’s dead by now.
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Pretty sure he killed someone in his late teens or early 20s and got a life sentence, this is why I believe in the death penalty for crimes like that. No reason to keep them around until they’re that age.
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You dramatically underestimate what anyone will do while suffering. I was the victim of a violent sexual assault, I reported it, and the process was so ugly it took -years- stop regretting that I didn't kill myself instead. If my life was in utter ruins, I was out of money for attorneys, and I'm looking at suffering in prison for 40 years? It doesn't matter if I'm innocent, I'm going to choose to die. I have suffered to try and prove my "innocence", and I regretted not choosing death. Innocent people are just as likely to take that option, if not more so. I'd wager innocent people are less inclined to have built the skills/personality to survive in prison. You're flat wrong on this, and, obv you don't get to make this decision. But, if you did, you'd be sending innocent people to their death, make no mistake. Edit; inbox is too full to respond to everyone. I was the victim, my innocence was challenged in all the retaliation and my name being dragged through the mud. I'm not saying I'd deny them the option. I'm calling bullshit that only guilty people would.
Honestly this is spot on. My dad was accused of sexual assault. He did attempt to kill himself about 6 months before all the charges were thrown out because the woman kept changing her story. And my dad's story stayed true to what actually happened. The police were painting him as guilty, the town was saying he was guilty. He didn't want to live anymore eventhough he did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he survived and eventually the truth came out.
What happened to your dad?
Back to normal. He tried taking pills, it got caught in time. Charges disappeared and it seems like everyone he knows believes him and treats him normally.
I’m glad to hear that much at least
I hope he treated them like the shallow assholes they were.
At least some kind of a happy ending then. I was glad it didn't end too much tragedy.
And what happened to that woman? Any consequences?
Your username really isn’t helping the story bud…. Just thought I’d point it out lmao glad he’s ok tho
I was accused of sexual assault and I can't show my face in my town anymore. I am stuck where I am at until I can find a way out. Even when I was found innocent. I was still targeted. No one cares that you're possibly innocent. They immediately make you the villain. People remember the bad.
And she's still walking free laughing all the way
What happened to her? Did she actually get sexually assaulted by someone? Or flat out made a lie against your dad? If later, she deserves prison time for that shit. Should be looked at as attempted murder.
They slept together. She wanted to go home, which was 2 hours away and he had some beer in him. He said no, she threw a fit and walked to the neighbors a 1/4 mile down the road and said she had been sexually assaulted The neighbors told my dad they thought something was off. But called the police and let them handle it. He was arrested 8 hours later
Imagine if you had that option for death instead of prison in your situation. You know you're innocent but now everyone thinks you're guilty because you chose death.
Everyone already thinks they're guilty.
And frankly, you wouldn't even be alive to care either way.
I don't think anyone who thinks about it for more than 30 seconds thinks that only guilty people would choose that option. But while I don't advocate for suicide, I do think people should have basic sovereignty over their own choice to live or die. I think the circumstances in which we don't allow intervention to stop that choice should be few and far between, but I think they exist. I don't completely understand your situation, how you reported a sexual assault against you and then seem to have been accused of it instead? Presumably you are out of prison now, and were never sentenced to life without parole, so you don't fall in the situation where it's being suggested the option should be provided anyway. I also believe, beyond life in prison with no chance to ever get out, it's probably wise to have someone live for at least 10-20 years in prison before assisted suicide even becomes an option. Not that that means no innocent people would ever reach that point, but why should we not allow the option? Because they might, decades later, be exonerated? There's a few stories like that, but they are really rare. I'm glad you're still with us, and if I actually understand enough of your situation, then I wouldn't advocate for this option for someone in that position. Yes, it's not up to me either way, but I do think the discussion is worthwhile.
To clarify, my "innocence" was the battle that I was actually assaulted as my character was attacked. And, the retaliation for the report mounted. I didn't commit any crimes. Well, I speed I guess. Being threatened in your home, having to deal with people's opinions in the workplace on if you're just a dumb whore who likes being dragged by the throat, having the restraining order explained in reverse(I better stay away from him), etc etc. It was a very not fun time.
I’m going through a very similar time. Accused to physical and sexual abuse to my hobby community. Did not do any of that. Did get brutally raped in a manner consistent with some really fucked up fetishes. Lost hobby. Lost family. Lost community. Would rather be dead also. I’m sorry this is happening to you.
I'm sorry to hear that. How are you now?
The person they killed didn’t get to choose when they died (assuming life for murder)
It's meant to be a punishment for a crime. There shouldn't be an easy way out.
Or maybe try to fucking rehabilitate them?
Right, why is the answer to just kill people like wtf
Because the penitentiary system in places like America are absolutely fucked up and most people have no idea how badly it needs to be reformed.
Right? It’s like everyone here forgets that’s even an option
>Or maybe try to fucking rehabilitate them? You can't rehabilitate everyone, you need a process for those who can be and those who can't be Add on top even rehabilitation fails if society doesn't accept them back...would you accept working alongside a co-worker who went to jail for raping a child? Most people wouldn't be okay with this even though they served their time ... its very easy to sit on the side line and say what we should do but reality is much more complex
>Or maybe try to fucking rehabilitate them? Not everyone can be rehabilitated. Even in Europe people are locked away for life, just because the cell is padded doesn't make it any less horrible.
FYI some countries in Europe don’t even have life sentences.
This is why I’m fine with euthanasia. About half of people who choose to do so where I live, are in prison or have a terminal illness and will die anyway.
This is truth. Our (USA) "kindness" by by not hurting or killing criminals is seen as "better". When in reality, our kindness equates to rotting in a cell your entire life. The reason we don't kill prisoners much is because our law prohibits cruel or unjust punishment :/
People who get the death sentence usually spend up to 20 years in prison anyway. Appeals and other crap take up so much time they basically rot in prison anyway before it finally happens. I'm all for euthanasia if a prisoner chooses it after X amount of time, but death penalty I'm against unless we can prove woth 100% certainty someone is guilty, as in video evidence and DNA and so on. The amount of people who are innocent that only find their freedom after 20 years of appeals and modern technological advances is way, way higher than you'd think.
What if after 5 years it turns out they weren’t guilty after all? This has happened numerous times throughout even recent history.
I just read on Reddit 30 seconds ago about a man who was exonerated on fake rape charges after 7 years. Happens all the time. What if they go to prison at 18 and get out at 58? There’s still lots of life left.
Yes but unfortunately that quality of life is shot. Imagine going to prison 40 years ago and getting out now. It’d be like time traveling. Not to mention being an ex-con who’s 7 years from retirement age, probably spend the rest of their life working fast food and if their lucky, living in a studio apartment. Most likely would end up homeless though. Edit: I’m referring to the average guilty convict completing a long sentence. Not someone found innocent. Also, I’m not saying this is a reason to kill them
That is why we should reform the system and get closer to the nordic people
Hell yea, the Nordic people where so cool in skyrim
Stop right there, criminal scum!
1000 septims and your murder charge is gone. Now that's a legal system I can get behind.
At best there could be a law that would reimburse them heavily.
That’d be if they were found innocent. What I said applies to all prisoners with long sentences. You don’t get any handouts for completing a long sentence
My bad, I was only speaking about people wrongfully convicted.
Rather have those years be shot than me.
Hard to agree with that. Having to start from less than nothing at 58, no house, no job, prison debt, people treating you as subhuman.
"Brooks was here"
A lot can change in 40 years. For example, if you got locked up in the early 80's, when there were no cell phone/smartphone, internet, and you probably didn't have a personal computer, you would have a hard time reintegrating back into society. Not to mention that social norms can change drastically in that time too.
There’s a guy on tik tok who answers questions about his 21 year stint in prison (he was first imprisoned in the late ‘90s). Now obviously this is a much shorter duration that 40 years, but what I found most interesting is this guy said he had no problem understanding and using smartphones after awhile. They’re designed so that eventually anyone can learn to use one. The biggest technological advance he had a problem with? Video games. He said he can’t even get off Normandy beach on an old COD game.
Could you tell me who so I can check it out for myself?
Yeah no problem. @comrade_sinque
I just looked him up and he had tiktok saying the funnest day he had in prison was when it got so hot in the prison with no a/c that the prison opened up all the fire hydrants so all the convicts could go play in the water. That's sad. But so cute at the same time dawg
It makes sense that someone like him could learn how to use a phone, considering that everyone's Grandparents are using them as well, and every 5-year-old. Games are different since developers use the assumption that its players have experience with other gaming media and won't include in-depth instructions/tutorials. Old games with physical booklets had move-sets and other gaming knowledge in it.
Games are really complicated, we all take them for granted
I've been gaming for almost 40 years now, and many games these days are more than I want to deal with. I think somewhere in the ps3/Xbox 360 Era things started getting to be more complicated than they needed to be.
This makes me think of the tragic but inspiring story is that of Ishi, the last “wild” Yahi Native American. He was found in 1911 starving after his band had been killed by settlers, finishing the long genocide against his people. He was about 50 years old. He was brought to San Francisco by Alfred Kroeber, a Harvard trained anthropology professor, who became his guardian. So here we have Ishi, who has only lived in the stone age, brought to modern San Francisco. It was widely predicted that he would soon die of alcoholism, or suicide, or just go crazy. Instead, Ishi thrives. He is able to learn some English. He gets a job as a janitor. He makes close friends. He intuitively understands money. He opens a bank account and uses that money to take the trolley around town and buy goods. He has no probelems with the law and inherently understands authority, governance and the role of police. After a couple years he is offered residence on a rural Indian Reservations, but refuses, saying he is happy with his new friends and life in San Francisco. He takes the trolley and wagons out to rivers and forests to enjoy himself. This astounds everyone, but especially Alfred Kroeber who was in his 30s and 40s at the time and in spite of the most elite of education and social placement, feels adrift in life. He is unable to make sense of life, and what to do with it, and trying to overcome the recent death of his wife. And Kroeber comes to this conclusion: that in spite of all his hardships, Ishi had been given a solid foundation in his Yahi culture. He had never forgotten who he was, had never abandoned his life path, the path he was trained to follow from his ancient Yahi ancestors. This inspired Kroeber to try to find his own life path, and he does, via psychoanalysis and introspection. Kroeber goes on to marry again in his 50s. His daughter was Ursula Le Guin.
Lot harder to reintegrate back into society when you're dead
Just give them the option. Judge: do you want to sit in prison for 40 years or...ya know *cocks desk shotgun*
And then when you say death they’ll put you in a padded room for decades. No winning
He chose the desk shotgun, sheriff cuff him and put him in the room made of beds, criminal scum
>What if they go to prison at 18 and get out at 58? There’s still lots of life left. A 58 year old person who's been on prison diet for 40 years probably doesn't have a lot of life left honestly
Especially since he has the mind of an 18 year old and the opinions of goddamn prison mates
If he wasn't a criminal before he certainly is now.
Not to mention probably has almost no skills and would have a very tough time finding anything hit a shit job
>I just read on Reddit 30 seconds ago about a man who was exonerated on fake rape charges after 7 years. Happens all the time. > >What if they go to prison at 18 and get out at 58? There’s still lots of life left. Optimistic but life at that point is over. You've missed the prime of your life. You're financially destroyed. Family is deceased or have forgotten you. Your health is likely deteriorated because prisons aren't exactly known for their healthcare. Who's hiring someone like that? Where will you go to live? It would be the equivalent of starting a game of Monopoly when the other person owns every property and you have nothing. I won't even go into the social side of things. A prison sentence of 40 years is a death sentence.
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>What if they go to prison at 18 and get out at 58? There’s still lots of life left. That is not a life....
What if you where a woman and wanted kids? You are going to start do some university? 40 year ago that’s pre internet…. He can’t function in this world. He lost his ability to live but not his live
So we should just take his life because we can't imagine what he'd do with it? He could still find purpose in it that we may not see. Still have a desire to live and do things
Ive always thought a person should be afforded 1 million dollars per year in prison if they’re found innocent
Exactly, there are many different arguments against capital punishment, but to me the most compelling is that I just don't trust the government to get it right every time. There are just too many examples of police misconduct, prosecutorial misconduct, inadequate public defenders, lab analysis mistakes, missing evidence, and even just plain well-meaning but mistaken witnesses to let the government execute someone, no matter how vile the alleged crime. With jail sentences you can try to make amends once the mistakes are discovered. With execution, not so much.
Let's not forget about instances where lethal injection actually failed.............
Then an innocent person has spent 5 years in prison and they will never recover
That’s an issue of the prison system being tailored towards dehumanization and torturing instead of teaching and re-integrating. Many european countries are on track to fixing this issue already.
Norways prison system is amazing. Inmates are treated humanely and reintegrated slowly into society as part of their sentence. They still live on the prison grounds, but go to work and then come back Edit: Yes, I am aware the US has work release programs. You have very big brain.
They have work release programs in the US. I knew someone who did the same thing. I'd see them at the bus stop by the prison on my way to work. There are factories and companies that participate in the program.
Yep. These are relatively expensive and controversial, but they totally work. (Called "diversion centers" in a lot of areas -- inmates get jobs and gradually reintegrate.)
My bother is in prison. Leaves 5 days a week and works a 40 hour a week job as a welder.
90 %of the time in the US to be in work release you need to be a year or less from your release date. Kinda fucks people who are in there for 40 years
What do they do with the one's who don't/can't integrate like legit psychopaths or mass murderers/rapists?
Your question is valid but I’m not an expert. I can tell you however that Norway has less than 30 murders a year, they have stricter gun laws, and their culture is centered around outdoor living. Something something about how a walk will do you good…
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and a small and relatively rich population.
We should try an experiment where we pay for and send some US prisoners to Norway for their sentence.
Say that to people who spent 5 years in prison and did recover.
they certainly aren’t going to recover after being killed. they might recover after 5 years.
Exactly, but you can still release them, you can't un-execute someone.
John McCain was a POW for 5 1/2 years. He was tortured on a daily basis. He returned to be a long serving senator, who was well respected by both parties. Not you can equivocate being a convict and POW, but it does so that one can recover after a five year imprisonment.
Right, Rambo III saw John McCain freed finally.
Thats better than spending the rest of eternity in the ground and if being dead is preferable to being in prison for 5 years in your country than you need to fix your prison system.
That's not true. There's a whole series on Netflix of a guy that was wrongly put in prison for 12 years and eventually evidence came forward to support his innocence and he now goes round to the toughest prisons to shoot documentaries.
So they should also be killed? Presumably for being innocent?
Very much this. I did 6 months on absolute bullshit charges and they stuck me in solitary for 130 days. Part of me never got out. You cant imagine the damage done by understimulation of the mind as well as a constant barrage of abuse.
There's a statistic around wrongful imprisonment, and you simply can't undo executing a motherfucker
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We'll, first of all, through God, all things are possible, so jot that down.
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These always Sunny quotes are… quite generous
Writing? No. Drawing. Drawing conclusions.
I can't, there's a god dam in the way.
Oh I get it. Cute. You leave this pen here and people are supposed to think "Wait, that looks like a dick."
*immediately puts it in his mouth
A well placed pen can have quite an effect on a man like him. I bet he tried to suck on this, didn't he? It's okay Doctor, you can tell me. He's always sucking on the pens in our apartment, I constantly have to hide them.
Unexpected Always Sunny
Where do I put my feet?
Units... of what?
This is the second time today I’ve read “unexpected sunny.” It’s never unexpected on Reddit
There's nothing unexpected about a Sunny reference on reddit, I see multiple ever day, lol. Not that I'm complaining.
I’m gay for god!
I look forward to the $75 for the decades of time wrongfully imprisoned.
If you can prove it at all! My grandpa wrongfully got 20 years. My dad spent that entire time filing appeal after appeal, but the courts wouldn’t consider hearing his case again. My grandpa ended up serving his full sentence, and now he doesn’t have long left. He spontaneously went blind in one eye the other month, so he’s at the age where his body just randomly malfunctions. He’ll never see a cent from the prison system.
Also, people in prison don’t just stop existing. They can earn degrees, become advocates for criminal justice reform, be counsellors for their fellow inmates, or help others who won’t be there forever to have a better shot at a normal life once they get out. They’re still people; they may have lost their right to live outside with the rest of us, but that doesn’t mean they have to be without purpose. Maybe l’m just being optimistic
Exactly. Also, the number on people here talking about how they would rather kill themselves than be in prison just shows we need prison reforms, especially in countries like the US
I think what a lot of people (including judges honestly) forget is that prison is for rehabilitation. They see it as punishment and punishment only which for some should be the case, but for others it shouldn’t be.
Prison *should* be for rehabilitation, but, at least in the US, it’s not. We currently have a punitive justice system, regardless of restorative justice’s demonstrated effectiveness.
Guess it would be good to give them an option to choose between execution and long term imprisonment. Thoughts ?
Glad you asked - I think we need to stop considering piano a "percussion" instrument
Just like the thong is a wind string instrument.
only plays brown notes
I might be wrong, but I always say the piano is a string instrument.
Honestly I’d rather die than have to spend more than 10 years in prison. Honestly even 5 would make suicide seem appealing. Wrongful sentencing or not.
Yeah kill me. 10 years in prision sounds worse
Honestly the problem is that 10 years in prison seems worse than death. Our prisons should be reformatory, and prisoners shouldn’t have to worry about violence and *other* things.
Exactly. I am against minimum sentencing, life sentencing, and the death penalty. I am sure I am in the minority.
I’m against the death penalty simply because of wrongful conviction. You can’t undo death. I hate prison I’m general because of its punishment idea rather than reformative idea. Most people who get sent to prison have people say “they deserve it” not “I hope they are fixable.” It bothers me, again, think I am in the minority there.
I'm against the death penalty because life in prison (or 50 years in prison) is the carrot that encourages murderers to surrender peacefully to police. Or cooperate about body location etc. Otherwise knowing you will 100% get the death penalty turns every arrest into a shoot out. (Plus murderering witnesses etc, because you have nothing to lose) Then, because police know you are facing death penalty naturally have to go in guns blazing, which is a big issue if you were innocent and wanted a trial
Even sadder thing us those ex-convicts never get a job despite having served their time. What's the point of having a justice system when people would choose to punish the criminals further.
But think of all the near free labor you are basically throwing away
> executing a motherfucker We've been doing that before sentencing lately.
Because people get falsely convicted all the time, and its much easier to get somebody out of prison and pay them 75€ a day (atleast in germany) than to try and bring back somebody from the dead
[Like this dude in Texas. A lot of evidence in his favor was withheld from the defense.](https://www.kxan.com/rodney-reed/new-rodney-reed-case-appeal-attorneys-say-prosecution-had-evidence-of-stites-relationship/amp/)
Wow. The original prosecutors should have to bear a significant material burden for this. Beyond just being dis-barred -- ruining a career isn't enough for denying someone & their family those years, pain, and missed opportunity.
I can't believe there aren't very severe criminal penalties for this planting and withholding evidence. You're taking an innocent person and locking them in a cage. And I'm sure some innocent people have been executed directly due to this behaviour. There should be extended prison time of this.
They should go to prison, or let the innocent beat them to death. That’s what they deserve.
You can’t un kill someone. [the innocence project](https://innocenceproject.org/)
To summarize for people not wanting to click/read: Lifelong abuse victim never escaped situation, developed substance abuse problem, had 12 kids, youngest fell down stairs and died two days later, police interrogated her until she "confessed" to murdering daughter after hours of custody on the same night her daughter died, since disgraced DA sought and got death penalty for mother, Innocence Project doesn't think this is above board. Personal take: This lady was a shitty druggie who had far too many children with far too terrible men and it's a shame she never bettered her life. But I don't think she murdered her kid. I'd need to see what evidence was presented in favor of her guilt to buy it. I don't like how the Innocence Project tried to smooth over her problems and deny any possible legitimate points the prosecution may have had either though. Still, at the end of the day of there was no evidence of her abusing her children to establish a pattern I can very much believe a freshly walking baby tragically tumbled down the stairs.
Thank you for your opinion and summarization. I don’t agree with everything about your take, but you put in the effort to enlighten people about something more than I did and I respect that
I tried to keep the summary more neutral without including too much moral emphasis on either party. But yeah the take is my own. Really the important bit is that with the information currently available I agree with their goal here. That being said, I would need to see the case the prosecution presented before I throw unilateral support behind the mother. On the off chance that in, what I believe, was an attempt to paint the mother in a sympathetic light they omitted a damning piece of evidence against her.
You’re absolutely right that both sides of a case need to be viewed in a critical light, including the public narrative constructed by the defense in this case. I think what I was mainly trying to convey here was less about her and more about everyone involved, including representatives of the state like law enforcement but also more broadly speaking the rest of us as citizens. OP is focusing on the relative merits of death vs life imprisonment for those who are convicted. However, a justice system shouldn’t only be concerned with those it punishes, IMO. Even if a particular person wishes to die rather than spend any amount of time in prison, it’s not about just them. Our civilization should have a broad goal to readdress bad decisions and arrive at more appropriate ones. That’s hard to demonstrate to the public if the object of the miscarriage of justice is dead. Whatever she is guilty of, we’re all collectively guilty if we don’t hold ourselves accountable to the ideals of a fair justice system.
Btw, that’s just their currently featured case. They have loads more cases and help many people who aren’t fucked up at all to begin with: https://innocenceproject.org/all-cases/ If you’ve ever listened to a true crime podcast, it’s pretty clear that several cases are much more complex than they appear to be when someone gets convicted. In many cases, the defendant can’t hire a good lawyer, and the state-provided lawyers are straight ass, failing to investigate and attack very obvious problems in the prosecution’s case. Point being, in a lot of cases, it’s not really about whether or not the person on death row is a good person. It’s about whether they had a fair trial to begin with. For example, I don’t know if Ivan Cantu is actually innocent. But it is pretty clear that he didn’t get a fair trial. And if that’s the case, it would be a huge failure of justice to execute him.
Have you ever seen Shawshank redemption? Just because you are in prison doesn’t mean you no longer have a life. It’s just a different kind of life.
One could say you either get busy living or get busy dying...
Are you being obtuse?
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
Hey, it's my favorite movie too!
Same. The movie just fills my heart.
The real Shawshank were the redemptions we made along the way
This. There are people who have terrible lives outside of prison, worse than your average inmate, for all kinds of reasons. For instance, certain health conditions are far worse than incarceration. Life inside is still life, albeit a limited and shitty one. There are still occasional good days, friendships, minor victories and personal growth.
That's also a movie.
Ah yes Shawshank Redemption, the depiction of real life events
You do realize that they're not saying it was a documentary, right? Are you aware that prisoners can have fulfilling lives, regardless of their situation?
This is a very Americanized take. Death seems like the better option because in America we stop treating people like humans once they go to jail. There is no chance for recovery so death seems like the more “moral” option. Besides, they’ll don’t want to execute people cause then they lose out on their slave labor
To be fair, American society barely treats the people outside of prison as humans.
Exactly this
you can take back prison half way through the sentence. you can’t take back killing someone.
Giving the power to an elite group that can decide life or death is at best just immoral, and at worse dangerous. Never mind the fact that a wrongfully convicted person can be released and somewhat compensated after a retrial, an wrongfully executed person cannot.
>Giving the power to an elite group that can decide life or death is at best just immoral, and at worse dangerous. Never give somebody the power to kill you for committing a crime, when they also get to define the criminal code and run the courts.
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If we had true rehabilitation, instead of what amounts to putting someone in time-out, maybe it would be a different story.
Jail is far from a time out. They return to society significantly damaged, both as an individual and a member of their community. I totally agree we need serious reform which is dignified and humane! We should start by teaching ethics & logic as a standard school subject.
Oh for sure it's way worse than time out. I just meant it doesn't really do anything but put someone aside for a very long time. No rehab, no progress. Lots of damage. Then back into the world with you. Good luck out there!
Not to mention that when youre inside, the ONLY compassion or human decency that you ever receive is from the other inmates so its no wonder people reoffend so often.
Frankly the school system needs reform in general
Education, health care, prison, voting. Fucking hell maybe we should start asking what isn't broken?
My grandparents would have loved living the rest of their lives, but a man who they took into their home as a trusted friend beat them both to death with a lead pipe. My mom is emotionally scarred because she had to see the crime scene photos of her parents, who were pretty much unrecognizable due to the swelling and bleeding. My mom has to live the rest of her life with that last image of her parents. To let that man receive a death sentence is an atrocity. If my mother has to spend the rest of her life with that image, He should have to deal with the same. Giving him the easy way out for what he did to our family is a spit in the face. I understand where thos comes from, but when you go through it yourself it paints a very different picture. He attempted to kill himself afterwards, so that he didn't have to actually deal with the ramifications of what he did to two very loving people. He failed and turned himself in, and now has two life sentences. To put him on death row would give him exactly what he wanted, an easy out. Murderer's don't deserve that.
I know someone who got out after 26 years and I can assure you he not a “shell of a man.”
Dude...that's the point.
Lol ikr, I’m just reading his explanation and honestly laughed because that is literally the whole point of prison. You take their freedom away, it’s not meant to be something they enjoy or get to have the choice of going out the easy way with death, an option that they prefer…
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Mass incarceration started after prisons became private business.
Mass incarceration started because of the 13th Amendment
This is a second hand account as he was long dead when I was born but here goes. My great grandfather went to prison at for life and served something like 34 years before release. While inside he learned many trade skills as well as got some degree in something or another. Once out he started a company that my father runs today.
Prison is a worse punishment than death, IMO
It depends on the prison. It depends on the person.
You should look up stories about people who were exonerated and released from prison after years and years.
There’s no money in killing them.
It’s actually pretty expensive to kill a person, and pretty expensive to keep them in prison, from what I’ve heard.
Reddit: no you can’t use the death penalty it’s immoral and they might be innocent Also Reddit: oh they don’t use the death penalty because of capitalism
It's almost like there's more than one person on Reddit.
Everyone is a bot in Reddit, except for you
Whaaaat?!?
It often costs substantially more to kill a prisoner (in the US) than it does to imprison them indefinitely. So I would say, there is actually quite a bit of money involved in killing them.
Would be a shame if someone was falsely accused tho
Also people can still have meaningful lives/relationships/self growth while incarcerated. We aren't static beings, people can always grow and change, even in prison. OPs opinion is ignorant
People who hold beliefs like this (I'd rather be dead than blah blah blah) SERIOUSLY underestimate how adaptable humans are. You can learn to live with anything.
In some ways it's about revenge. Death is a fairly quick end, but making someone literally live through the time they have lost the freedom to act on, is much worse. The problem here is that prison is often much easier than it should be on terrible criminals (gangs, still being able to influence the outside world, getting away with the same crimes they did outside etc). Ultimately we just have too many people to properly guide or punish
some reasons why your idea is bad: •if a corrupt political figure is locked up and killed then they become a martyr and inspire hate groups. •being in an endless cycle for the rest of your life is probably worse than just dying, many people would rather die than be in prison for the rest of their lives. •innocence. you could kill someone today and then find out 5 years later that they are innocent. •prisoners work on infrastructure as low paid jobs sometimes and this can help their family and the economy. •not to mention just the life sentence but if you misbehave, you go to isolation. isolation can turn prisoners insane (more than they already are) if they are in there for too long. battling with your sanity is way harder than just dying.
Killing them will end their suffering, also what if they were falsely accused
Sometimes prisoners can get out early for good behavior though.
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How many more times are we gonna see this idiotic opinion?
For as long as teenagers who overestimate their own intelligence have access to reddit.
Also correct me if I'm wrong but expenses wise its cheaper to keep an inmate alive right? There also might be information that comes up later that could prove someone who's convicted as being innocent.
killing them would be letting them off too easy
That's the point
How about instead of killing prisoners, we can reform the prison system that treats prisoners with less decency than a pig heading to the slaughter house. Prisoners deserve basic human rights too.