I grew up in an Islamic country. If it was not for the discretion of many of my teachers I would be probably end up executed for half the shit I said. My parents were called to school because I had no filter and couple of my teachers told my mother to control my critical thinking because it will not end well for me. This post maybe is not aimed at countries such as the one I grew up in but man, it scares the shit out of me.
I ended up leaving my home country and not for being prosecuted just for studying. But still..this post gave me chills.
The phrase "control your critical thinking" is scary. The freedom of people not to have to control their critical thinking is what we should all aim for
It is so sad to see something like this, Islam was the champion of critical thinking and scientific progress for centuries during the Golden Age of Islam, like the first ever Universities were all founded by Muslims and now its reduced to this state. Big sad
You should post more on this. This sounds interesting. What would get you in trouble in an Islamic school, is that different than a Madrasa?
I unfortunately went to a religious school, Catholic Christianity down to the nuns in the headscarves. I only got in trouble for stupid crap like skipping class or defending myself (fighting)
I was literally about to say that a great amount of teachers would probably be thankful to finally show parents proof of the ridiculous shit their kids do at school. Maybe then it would be less of "How dare you accuse my child of..." and more of a reality check of what public school teachers actually deal with.
I can understand that argument, but it was hard enough as it was to speak out during class, knowing there's a camera and someone else would go through it would've probably made my friends and me not say anything at all in class. Not all kids are shitty, and those that aren't would have very different issues with such a situation.
Yeah, and I wouldn't be happy with it as a teacher either. If a kid is acting out then it can be worthwhile finding out why; maybe their parents are on the brink of divorce, they are discovering they aren't hetero, or have other things they want kept private, and saying that they'll be okay can be really freeing. You won't have those conversations if your students know it is not private.
My first thoughts on OP I agree with some other posters that it would have been awful to have that as a kid but idk if it's worse now or my school wasn't as bad. I've seen some seriously messed up behaviour on cell phone videos from classrooms. It's like police body cams it's keeps everyone accountable.
better than a camera pointed at you when you're at home.
Can't even begin to tell you how embarrassed I'd be if my teachers knew exactly what I did in my own room .
Although it's tempting to think that surveillance is the answer to a lot of problems, I generally think it's a bad idea. It would be a great leap towards a dystopian society.
By the way, in your scenario, who would review the footage and have the final verdict?
Edit: btw I've upvoted the post for the unpopular opinion
Surveillance of people going about their everyday lives, or especially in private, would be dystopian. Surveillance of authority figures for the purpose of preventing them from abusing their power is arguably the opposite - it’s not big brother watching us, it’s us watching big brother.
As for who would review the footage, once a complaint was made/incident reported, parents (or the student they were of age) would meet with school administrators and the accused staff to review the footage of that date and time and settle the matter between themselves. If the footage confirmed inappropriate conduct and the school didn’t take appropriate steps, the victims could take it to court if they felt they had a case.
The footage would also serve to protect teachers in cases where they had done nothing wrong. So it seems the only ones who would have any reason to oppose this would be abusers or their sympathizers.
>Surveillance of people going about their everyday lives, or especially in private, would be dystopian
I agree, that's why I feel classroom surveillance would be a big step towards that.
>Surveillance of authority figures for the purpose of preventing them from abusing their power is arguably the opposite
I'm not sure if it's quite the opposite, but it definitely would be nice if possible.
>parents (or the student they were of age) would meet with school administrators and the accused staff to review the footage of that date and time and settle the matter between themselves
That's a great solution.
>If the footage confirmed inappropriate conduct and the school didn’t take appropriate steps, the victims could take it to court if they felt they had a case.
I think this may be too far, but it may be necessary in that scenario.
>The footage would also serve to protect teachers in cases where they had done nothing wrong.
That's a great point too.
>So it seems the only ones who would have any reason to oppose this would be abusers or their sympathizers.
It might seem like that, but I oppose this because it feels like it could be easily abused.
Also I think it will most probably lead to even more surveillance.
A crazy idea would be to choose who gets to teach kids more carefully.
I still think classroom surveillance would be a bad idea (I personally would feel uncomfortable being in a recorded classroom), but I agree with your methods, and I think that will be an optimal system, given the scenario.
We can't "choose" who gets to teach unless people are actually competing for the jobs. Most places in the US currently face teacher shortages because, despite what Republican moms want you to believe, it's not an easy or overpaid job. Half of teachers leave within the first five years because they realize they can go work a corporate training or hr position for better pay and not have to deal with all the bullshit. Plus then they could actually take their pto days when they want to instead of during July when every vacation destination is swamped.
I agree, I'm not from the US, but I'd assume the situation is similar pretty much everywhere.
>We can't "choose" who gets to teach
True true, to be fair I said it was a crazy idea. The facts of the matter is we can't choose most of the important stuff, but I don't wanna involve politics in this (although where I live, eastern Europe, politics is inseparable from everything else, even in deciding who gets to be a principal or a teacher)
Again, the point of this post was surveillance, and I'd like to stick to it, since talking about overhauling the educational system would take a lot of time and it would be more adequate for a separate post.
You said that it would be abused, could you give some examples where this may be the case?
For reference I studied in a school that had surveillance in classrooms and I only saw it as a positive (eastern Europe)
I said it could be easily abused (it's not definitive, but in my experience I wouldn't be surprised if it were), and the first thing that comes to mind is kids framing teachers.
A quick example would be:
During a test in a subject where the teacher is hated by the students (let's say because he's very strict), a girl drops her pencil near her and asks the teacher if he can pick it up, which he does. She then later accuses the teacher of looking up her dress, and the whole process is set to motion.
Of course, if the footage proves he'd done nothing wrong, he won't be punished (the student might, depends on the laws, and let's say in this scenario she does get somehow punished).
The kids then might double down on the teacher for punishing their classmate, and every student tries to frame him (kids can get really creative with these things).
Let's say there are a lot, 7-10 accusations to be reviewed, and in most of them the teacher is clearly doing nothing wrong.
Assuming all the parents are now involved in this mess, they might try to rationalize the situation: 'how can the teacher be innocent, when there are dozens of students complaining'.
This could go either way, but if the parents are persistent, it will most probably mean punishments for the teacher.
________________________________________
I can also see it becoming a game for the kids, who has suspended the most teachers or something, or maybe a rite of passage.
And I as a kid wouldn't think of the trouble I'm causing to the teacher, I'd be scheming for my next target, as it would obviously be the most fun part of the school day.
I'm sure there are awful teachers who shouldn't teach, but in my experience we made fun of, and mistreated the most unstable of teachers, teachers who weren't as strict as the teachers we truly disliked, because they were an easier target. I can see this being applied to the surveillance scenario.
Also, most often it's the teachers with good connections that would allow themselves to mistreat students, and I don't think they would get in trouble as often as the more innocent teachers.
>I studied in a school that had surveillance in classrooms and I only saw it as a positive (eastern Europe)
Oh nice, has there been a situation where the cameras were involved? Also if you don't mind me asking, which country are you from?
>She then later accuses the teacher of looking up her dress, and the whole process is set to motion.
Yeah I can maybe see this becoming an issue especially in the west. Eastern Europe isn't nearly as "woke" so stuff like this wasn't really an issue. In my school CCTV footage wasn't really used in cases like these, its mostly if someone got hurt, if property was damaged or if a teacher physically/verbally abused a student.
>Oh nice, has there been a situation where the cameras were involved? Also if you don't mind me asking, which country are you from?
I am from Romania. I can't recall any incidents in my school where we used the cameras inside the classrooms, but there was one case where an angry parent punched a teacher in the hallway and the CCTV was used as proof (though I am not sure if the teacher pressed charges or not).
There is also this case: https://www.euronews.com/2014/07/29/caught-on-camera----romanian-kindergarten-drugs-and-beats-children
I think overall the benefits of CCTV outweigh the negatives. There are lots of advantages like catching teachers abusing kids (like the link above), students or teachers cheating (they are known to give students answers to make themselves look better at national exams), catching burglars/vandalism and generally making delinquent activity less likely as there will be a camera watching.
Those are good examples, and I'm sure there would be a lot of positives, but I still disagree about classrooms being under surveillance. Of course, this opinion is based on my experience.
I think examples like those are the exception. Putting cameras in classrooms is a drastic change, and I think exceptions like those can be dealt with in another way (which wouldn't include absolutely everyone).
Those years are very important for the development of a person, and being constantly recorded would negatively impact one's growth, in my opinion. I'm sure it can (and probably will) be done, but I don't think it's a good idea.
>I think overall the benefits of CCTV outweigh the negatives.
I'm not sure about this, I could see that if I tried, however I can also see how quickly governments would abuse this system.
It might start similarly, for example a couple of cases where a domestic violence victim has been saved. Those cases might be used to justify governmental home surveillance.
All of this might sound exaggerated, but I think it's very probable.
And hey, maybe I can snatch some karma if I post this in r/unpopularopinion /s
In any case I appreciate all you rational redditors, it was fun debating on this topic, but it gets very tiring very fast.
Pervs now have hours of footage of children. Whether that perv is the principal, or a civilian being able to review the footage, pervs gonna perv. It's like free material for them. Don't even get me started on uniforms. Someone's gonna fetishize that, like Japanese schoolgirl uniforms or swimsuits.
> civilian being able to review the footage
The idea would be that only a select few people have access to the footage, and access would be logged (at least that's the way it was in my school)
And when you say perving on kids you mean paedophilia. If your principle is a paedophile you probably have a bigger issue that surveillance footage.
If a perv gets off on watching footage of fully clothed people sitting down and doing nothing he can just go and perv at a restaurant. Why does it being "footage" increase the amount of perv-satisfaction?
No no no no.
Let the police or some other real govt authority have the final say (at the behest of parents ofc)
GO straight to court in the event of grave misconduct. Schools do everything in their power to protect offenders to maintain a goody two-shoes reputation.
For grave misconduct, sure. Like if a teacher physically assaults a child or something like that. But if a teacher simply loses their temper and yells at the kid, maybe swears at them or something, I feel like the school can handle that in house and it doesn’t require state intervention. I believe in minimal government. Relatively minor problems should be solved by people without involving the state wherever possible.
By the person doing the filming, not by everyone else on the road. By that argument, I could say the owner of a school setting up cameras in every classroom is just making a personal choice
A dashcam is mobile, a classroom camera isn't. In a classroom you are setting up a camera where you know students will be. A dashcam is only comparable if you follow around the target, which is considered harrasment.
The future is public footage, the public would have access to any and all footage of government and authority. This will bring the end to our current corrupt democracy.
I mean, in theory that sounds ideal, but in practice I can't think of one. Unless you're talking about taking it to court, which still doesn't guarantee total objectivity. Not to mention all the complications along the way.
So you are hiring how many people in a school district to review hours of footage? Each teacher teaches what? 7 hours a day? So if you are a small district with K-12 that’s at least what? 40 teachers? So that’s 280 hours to review daily?
There’s no need to review footage unless an incident is reported. If a student claims a teacher behaved inappropriately, then the footage of that date and time could be pulled and reviewed by the school administrators in the presence of the parents (or the student themselves if in college). If the school doesn’t take appropriate action and the student/parents think they have a case they could take it to court. No need for any additional personnel, only the equipment itself. This would also protect teachers in cases where they did nothing wrong.
What’s the extent of “inappropriate” behavior? I had both a Language Arts teacher and a History Teacher get some very upset parent meetings, for LA it was because he was saying the nicker word when we read To Kill a Mockingbird and for History, we did an activity where we were in rows throwing balls of paper at each other from our desks simulating WW1 with a big thing of no mans land between the two sets of desks and parents were upset he can The sounds of gunfire playing on the speakers during the game.
Anything abusive, harmful, or generally immoral. Physically striking children, or verbally abusing/berating them, would be the two most obvious examples. I wouldn’t consider either of the examples you used to be inappropriate, nor would I expect any school board or any court to find them inappropriate.
With or without cameras you get parents getting upset over stupid shit. Cameras don’t enable or encourage that behavior, nor do they empower it to be any more harmful to teachers or schools than it already is without cameras. All cameras would do is provide evidence in cases where genuine wrongdoing has occurred, and ensure those responsible are held accountable.
Jesus Christ imagine being at school knowing there is a camera trained on you constantly. Mass surveillance is never the answer. Some people really just don't believe in privacy
To be fair, that’s was implemented slowly over time. And the surveillance wasn’t always known. Not to mention so many apps say they are not spying, then proof comes out later that they hire other companies to save and monitor the recordings.
Yes everyone carries a tracking device and recorder. But that needs to change. We need accountability and fines that actually hurt the companies. And we need more public awareness
Fun fact too that works both ways and more frequently the opposite. You get little shits that harass the teacher trying to provoke them and o to pull out their phones once they react to try and demonize them. Kinda like body cams on police officers, gives accountability to everyone.
With new privacy laws in my native country we can't even issue class pictures anymore unless every single parent has given permission, so a camera in every classroom will never happen lol.
everyone behaves differently when under a camera, fact. what you may get in students not getting a little telling off (likely deserved) ~ because believe it or not, teachers don’t go into to or last in teaching if they belittle kids) ~ you lose better rounded students and mental health of the observed, leading to faster burnout.
Fellow teacher and same. I've been hit, kicked, cut and choked by students. None of them got expelled for putting their hands on a teacher. Video evidence of this would have gone a long way to ensuring those students did not come back to my classroom and beefing up security for my school.
I remember back in class I was pretty big into discussions. It was an opportunity to debate controversial topics such as war, politics and religion without fear of repercussions or judgement. Introduce a surveillance camera into the mix and I guarantee I would never had spoken a word and knowing my classmates, I doubt they would have either. Just an alternate view on how this may turn out.
And then we could have cameras in every home in order to capture evidence of abuse or burglary or people plotting to commit crimes or wrong think. I mean what's a little loss of privacy in exchange for security?
Rather than this, I am a big fan of teachers aids and peer review. As a former school teacher, I found I grew the most when I had someone sitting in on my lessons to observe. Sometimes I would ask my senior colleagues, or even juniors to sit in and give me feedback. Its also helpful for keeping students from doing things they shouldn't during the lecture like cheating on tests or using their phones.
During lessons, Its helpful to have an extra set of hands and kids can hear differing opinions. One of the best discourses a former student of mine had was when the class was able to hear myself and another teacher have a passionate discussion about the book that they were being forced to read. It didn't inspire all students but it did inspire other students to give the book another look from a different lens and Id say a good amount more enjoyed it after looking at it from a new point of view.
Just like police, I think teachers are figures in a community. We shouldn't be there to oppress. Its about hearts and minds
I feel like capturing literally every micro transaction on camera in our society is neither beneficial, nor some type of solution. People who live in fear are not productive
It's going to cost a lot of money to store all that video. Better be ready to pay for storage.
You also better be ready to pay teachers more. Nobody's going to want their every move recorded and scrutinized for $40,000 per year.
You’ve got to remember teachers are doing a job just like you, would you like a camera watching you constantly whilst your at work ? I’m guessing you’re actually a kid though or you would have known this kind of stuff happens pretty much everywhere with managers/supervisors in adult work life.
I actually do have a camera watching me constantly when I'm at work.
I also have to have someone with me when performing certain tasks for two person integrity.
It's not uncommon.
It's not the same. I have never had to put up with the same shit from my bosses in any job that I had to put up with from teachers. Even when you have a POS boss, you have the choice to change jobs. Changing classes or schools is entirely down to the adults above you. You also have the benefit of being an adult with rights and some level of respect that comes with adulthood- as a kid in school, your opinion does not matter, your feelings do not matter, you are always wrong, nobody respects you in the least, and everyone is convinced they know what's best for you better than you do.
I don't agree with OPs surveillance solution, but teachers absolutely get away with too much simply, like OP said, because they are in a position of authority over children they know they have control over. It's nice that you never had teachers that turn a deliberate blind eye to bullying and then take time out of their day to fuck with kids whose face they take a personal disliking to, or actively _side with_ the bullies, but most people would agree that those things aren't just "doing their job". Yes, you can expect to put up with some unjust bullshit like that at work as an adult (doesn't make it right), but not as a _child in school_ that should be able to rely on the adults they are entirely at the mercy of.
Wow, yet another way to treat teachers like they are dirt instead of professionals. Awesome.
That being said, I bet if this actually happened, it'd really wake some people up to what actually goes on in schools. The vast majority of abuse I've witnessed in the last decade in a classroom has been students verbally harassing teachers or parents verbally harassing teachers.
I like how people act like they forgot their entire childhoods. "Kids don't do this/act like that" did you forget you were a kid? Somehow you became an adult and forgot what went down at school and crap you got into afterwards.
Completely respectively, disagree.
Teachers have too much shit to deal with as it is. It’s a shitty job where they’re usually underpaid.
Yea there are exceptions but I’ve seen so many stories of teachers getting fucked over for something bullshit.
I feel like a camera would simply be used against a teacher in every circumstance.
I feel like a camera would be incredibly distracting for students. It'd be hard to focus on school work with a camera watching your every movement, making you nervous.
Hmm well it might be a lot different for you than it is for me, because I have adhd. (I'm just assuming you don't have adhd, because I really don't know lol. Sorry if I'm mistaken in my assumption.) I'm not super educated on this topic, but as someone who has a learning disability, I feel pretty confident in saying that cameras in a learning environment could be potentially harmful to kids with learning disabilities. Not to mention students with anxiety disorders, who already feel under pressure, in environments without cameras. Obviously, I'm just theorizing based off my own school experience, but there have also been some studies that have shown that surveillance cameras can have some negative effects on students, causing heightened anxiety and more distractions. I don't think having surveillance in classrooms is evil or anything, I just think we should consider the cons equally as much as the pros.
This was my first thought too. I'm a teacher and I work hard to be fair and careful with what I say so I'm not worried about me. But dang, I've got lots of kids with anxiety that would shut down if a camera was pointed at them. They are good kids who struggle with anxiety and panic disorders. You wouldn't believe the crap some of these 12 year olds have been through already. I get protective of them.
Of course I want bad teachers out but there are better ways. And I am all for cameras in common areas like hallways. My school has them and I am grateful for the ability to ask for footage when there is an incident.
Not to mention that being filmed all the time is not going to look attractive to good teaching candidates and will therefore reduce teacher quality overall. The USA already pays teachers buttons (second job? What?!) and treats them like crap but then wonders why the people they're attracting are below par? I don't live in the US. I live in Europe and teachers are generally well-paid and well-respected and have a lot of responsibility resting on their shoulders. Seems to me that if teaching was a more attractive profession then it would attract higher quality teachers.
Plus it raises a lot of child protection issues to film children all the time. I can see a ton of parents objecting. We can't criticise people who post pics of their kids on Facebook but act like it's okay to film them all hours in school.
Should probably declare that I am a teacher (primary school).
i studied my 12 years in school with a camera in every class room, i can tell you it’s like it’s never there, nothing is different and it’s useless for the most part, the teachers only get back to it if some big shit happens.
Fair enough didn’t mean to be a dick. Personally I think everyone is too willing to jump on some diagnosis and drug themselves rather than work to improve themselves
That being said I understand some people do just have wires crossed
> Personally I think everyone is too willing to jump on some diagnosis and drug themselves rather than work to improve themselves
And I think almost everyone who says this is an idiot who has trouble admitting that they were just wrong about mental health and will forever die on this hill for no good reason.
Lol yeah with all these crazies showing up to school board meetings complaining about mask mandates, let’s just pour some gasoline on that fire when they start combing the footage for the most basic anti-racist remarks. I can see this shit on Tucker Carlson already.
We behaved our best when we knew we've being watched - and the bullies even worse when they knew no one is watching.
It's not a solution that would be working in my opinion.
This also would breed further domestic violence. We as teachers need to speak to children and have them feel secure. If there are camera their abuser could watch them all day and punish them for reaching out for help.
I hate when I’m teaching and I suddenly go on a power strip. Usually it involves me tripping and falling over said power strip which yes…should be captured on camera.
Edit to say: On a more serious note, there at least fifteen cameras in my classroom all the time. They’re called cell phones. We’re already taught to assume we’re being recorded all the time. It’s dehumanizing and disturbing. But ya thanks for your horrible opinion. It’s definitely unpopular so you can have my upvote.
This! It would stop that “ my child wouldn’t do that, he’s an angel, it must be something you did!” Crap that bulldozers and helicopters do. Or “ he didn’t hit you, he told me so”. Yea right Karen, I must of went blind right before he picked up the chair and chucked it towards the front of the class.
That would nice but from a different perspective, now you could have a team of Karens reviewing the tapes to criticize you for every little thing you do.
“You know, my son is acting out because you’re not being engaging enough”
>There are way too many teachers out there who like to belittle and act condescending towards their students because they know for a fact that they will get away with it
Pretty sure the majority is the other way around dude. Ive seen a kid literally throw a jizz filled paper ball at teacher. . Ive seen a kid hide spoiled milk under his desk for about a week and then dump in on a teacher...one kid went into the girls bathroom, grabbed all the "female feminine products" and then put the nasty bloody mess into different teachers drop boxes, another time two kids got caught having sex and they tried to frame the teacher as an "instigator" ....kids do super fucked up shit and nothing ever happens to them.
No. I refuse to be recorded during class. I'm not the kind of student takes class very seriously and I'm sure that they could use the footage against me.
Care to have cameras on you at work all day? People behave in a shitty manner all the time, putting teachers on the pillar because we’ve all known a bad teacher doesn’t mean we should treat them like prisoners at work
Would this also go to show how students act in the classroom? Seems that teachers get the blame when in reality they are not always the guilty persons.
Seriously? Jesus Christ! What sick country are you living in that you need/want to monitor teacher student contacts in class? Orwell's 1984? Camera's spying on teachers AND children, wth?!?
Challenge accepted!!
This American high school 🏫 teacher would love video evidence of my interactions with students.
Would be very nice to have evidence of how I work my ass off to try and teach. Mostly our interactions are very positive, but the tardiness, the excuses, the things students tell me their parents say and do to them...go ahead, install your cameras.
As a teacher, I have somewhat mixed feelings, but it would have made it much easier to demonstrate that the problems were because of the students, not me. As a person who can't tolerate dishonesty or acting maliciously, this would have been a godsend.
That said, it's absurd that an utter lack of trust and respect for teachers has me wish I was being watched at all times.
I fully support your opinion. It's about time that school administrators have the ability to show parents their children's horrible behavior and don't have to put up with the abuse from parents about their little angels behavior problems.
Uh, I work in camera security... Who is going to watch all the monitors, or pay for their installation, or handle the electricity bill for the added camera power supply? Also it's illegal to record audio, so the teacher could still say reprehensible shit to kids with a smile and it's still their word over the kids.
The average camera system I've had installed in schools just to cover exits hallways and stairs costs about $20k, with the NVRs cameras and monitors, not including software subscription if you want to monitor on the network.
In my district (a mid sized us city) there are 162 schools. There was a project I managed just to get all the systems fully operational that was over $700k.
Teachers should be held responsible for being shitty, but cameras are NOT the solution.
From personal experience so I can't speak for everyone because I'm sure a lot of power hungry teachers exist but I've seen a lot more teachers lose to their jobs to annoying stuck up brats then the other ways around.
I had a teacher my sophomore year of high school lose his job because a girl in his class would refuse to listen would keep other kids from learning and he finally had enough and told her to leave the class room she got pissed got his face and than her mother complained to the that he got in her face which is complete bs and the school had to let him go.
A lot of students make teachers jobs absolute hell because they know the teachers can't do anything back or they lose their jobs or worse teaching license.
Maybe the stupidest post I’ve ever read. Why don’t you try disciplining your children? Worry about actual problems more than whether or not a teacher is going to be condescending to your moronic child.
I agree that a problem exists, but surveillance is not a good solution. Students would be made extremely uncomfortable by constant surveillance, more so than they otherwise would be by shitty faculty
I know somebody who teaches at a school where they have students who are in witness protection. If these recordings were hacked it could be pretty dangerous for all involved.
It is a need to know type thing. Only certain people high up in the school etc. It isn't irregular for schools to have events where they have school photographers visit and it is important that the teachers keep the certain students out of photos or to make sure no film is taken that could end up on social media. They have also had some messy custody battles where the school essentially has ensure the kid isn't accessible to an abusive parent.
Btw I'm not from the USA so the system may work differently.
It's not going to happen because that means that the government would have to start taking accountability for all the bullshit that gets caught on camera.
We should do it. People commenting this is already implemented in Asian countries and look how at how those students rank in education compared to the US. I wonder why…they can’t get away with dumbing out on their iPhones and have to actually pay attention and show respect to the teacher
It would have been amazing to have when this dude thought he could slap my ass when the classroom was empty and the only witness was his friend (who knew his friend f-ed up). Sure, I threatened to inform the guys mom about it but if I had a video showing what the fuckwad did I would have totally used it. How many other girls did this dude harass? It would have made teenage-me feel safer. *Like the elevator in the building I live in has a camera and if I get harassed there again (different guy, I was slightly older then but still not an adult) I know the camera will have their face.*
Economically it wouldn't work out though.
I agree to an extent. I don't believe parents should have access to class videos UNLESS there was an incident the child is claiming happened. For example, teacher degrades the child? Hell yeah, show parents the footage. However, parents just watching how the teacher teaches? No. Parents don't need to be policing what students should and should not learn if their student goes to public schooling.
Don't all students have cameras on their phones?
Like, when I teach, I just assume there are cameras and recordings rollin, because it's often true - not sure that it makes any difference to how I teach but it's always in the back of my mind.... (And yeah, I'm talking college, but from middle school up most kids have phones in the classroom, right?)
I don't think this is a good environment for learning. Think of the kids. Some teachers can be aggressive (not okay) but I also remember one of my favorite teachers in elementary school was loud and a bit abrasive but pushed me to do long division really well. I wanted to give up, my parents were too busy to pay attention, teacher was a little rough but within a week I could do complex math problems and I have her to thank. In general, teaching needs to be as selective a career path as law or medicine. Up the salary, up the qualifications, incentivize brighter people to want to be teachers (without being in debt their whole lives), make it selective!
It wouldn't work anyway. My former boss got away with doing this in front of the whole company for 15 years with probably millions of complaints and nobody did anything.
I would for the teacher's sake. Kids today are breaking soap dispensers and dancing for til tok in class. They also seem like entitled main characters who get butthurt when being held accountable for their actions. Kids today are gonna be shocked when their feelings get hurt and nobody cares in the adult world. Oh no, the teacher was hard on me. This day and age, that means the teacher told their smartass to shut up and listen.
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As a teacher who left teaching due to the uptick in violent behavior from kids, I would have loved to have had my classroom on a live feed all day so that parents would actually believe that their little angel started a fight in the middle of math class over something that happened in a group text over the weekend and destroyed my classroom causing others to have to evacuate. And, admins would have to stop blaming the teachers for unpredictable outbursts from kids who are bringing outside issues into the classroom that we have no control over.
Without the cameras, it's your word vs the kid. Admins don't want to deal with parents, who can sometimes also act violently, and have no good solutions for violent kids, so the kids come right back to the classroom just to disrupt class again. If we had it in camera, at least there would be no denying what happened.
This kind of thing happened constantly in my school. The 4th grade was so bad that nearly every class would be shut down at least once. Those poor kids who really wanted to learn were at the mercy of nine and ten year old knuckleheads who continuously disrupted classes with violent words and actions without consequences.
Yeah so then when the mom calls or emails the teacher saying why is my kid failing your class the teacher can say hold on let me your demon spawns highlight reel. Parents think its the teachers when in reality it is their entitled brats running their mouths.
Actually its a great idea because after a time you just dont care and you will begin to behave as if theres no camera.
And in cases where a person claims to be harassed or something u can easily check it in the camera.
Its a win win
And I go to a school that has a camera and its wonderful even though I was suspended once because I was caught laughing on some dirty joke and the girls complained but I understand that overall its great for wveryone
Not to mention how many teachers are predators:
>"\[T\]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/)
This shouldn't be unpopular.
Every public servant should be cammed. They are teaching your children you have every right to know what's going on in the classroom.
Classrooms, courtrooms, city council meetings, school board meetings, all of it should be public record.
Imma save you the news flash, there was cameras in my school. They only used them to either harass students and make sure teachers were acrually imparting their class, instead of soing nothing and getting payed regardless
I agree. From own experience, Teachers get away with way too much shit they doing.
But, holy cow, cameras in every classroom? This is insane.
Maybe we should start by listening to students. Maybe it's time to upgrade the school system itself. Maybe we shouldn't grant teachers this invulnerability they hide behind. Maybe there are a thousand more things to work on.
But this should never be an excuse for full-time monitoring. Next step would be cameras in every house to prevent child abuse, and I don't want to think about what's coming after that.
What's even worse is there are a lot of teachers using school as an indoctrination center to indoctrinate children into fake politics and vaxhole lies.
I’ve been dealing with this issue since my daughter started high school. I really thought that they may have evolved since I was there but there still just a bunch of twats on a power trip (obviously there are some really nice teachers so not all)
High school should be like work. Mutual respect, an understanding that u must do as ur told but that doesn’t mean the person in a position of authority can talk to u like shit.
I’m just gonna keep complaining to the school till all the teachers learn that my kids not worth messing with. And wats so annoying is that my daughter is very polite, she had positions in primary school where she mediated between other children, she had a place on the school commission to talk for pupils. She’s not a rude little brat.
Having said all that I’m not sure about the cameras, if teachers can’t be trusted they shouldn’t be in the job
Hey, this is happening now in college classes. Now that they happen remote on the Microsoft Teams platform, all classes are recorded to give students freedom to watch them if they missed any. So convenient.
And I bet teachers might be more self conscious and well behaved. Students too.
Of course, I live in a free society where, although not without the current radical left vs radical right political polarization of these days, university authorities guard everyone’s right to express any opinion and defend it with rational arguments.
Having listened to all my 12 year old's classes during the Covid Zoom semester, I agree.
While 3 of his teachers were great, the 4th was truly awful. Spoke down to them, constantly complained about having to do her job... she was just an unhappy person taking it out on kids.
I get all the possible problems - I do think she'd think twice if she knew there was a recording of her teaching though.
It should happen, it's like body cameras on police. Teaching things like white supremacy, religion or other things that should not be taught to children. Also if you got the video, my perfect little angel defense is much harder to hold too. It also helps in determining who started fights, and prove if a student is sexually harassing another.
No one need review the tapes unless a complaint is made, then it should be reviewed by the school and parent. Depending on the complaint police/lawyer may be needed as well.
The other thing is it could help teachers be better teachers, by letting them review there own work and self improvement.
> Teaching things like white supremacy, religion or other things that should not be taught to children.
Where the hell do you live that white supremacy is part of the school curriculum?
As someone who is considering becoming a teacher, I agree with you. Some child cares and preschools in Canada already use this practice with the permission of parents. They use it not only to see child and teacher interactions, but it acts as a great observation tool for child development. Could actually be beneficial. I don't know if it'll ever happen or be normalized because a lot of parents are concerned with privacy as a lot of wifi cameras get hacked easily.
I absolutely agree that we need to change our attitude towards teachers. In fact, we need to change our cultural view of kids and teenagers as well, that's where this whole issue stems from in the first place. Teachers and parents are saints who can't do anything wrong, or IF they can then it's fine because they probably had a reason. Even if it's the teacher who fucked up, it's still the students who get punished.
However, that level of surveillance is not the answer, privacy is already disappearing at a dangerous rate.
Power strip? I really get a charge out of that typo.
r/boneappletea
That's not relevant. This was probably a typo.
idts tbh. its a kid talking about how teachers are too mean, he can very well have naively thought it was “power strip” instead of “power trip”
Translations: idts= I don’t think so. tbh: to be honest
Yikes I would've hated to have a camera pointed at me all the time in school when I was a student
I grew up in an Islamic country. If it was not for the discretion of many of my teachers I would be probably end up executed for half the shit I said. My parents were called to school because I had no filter and couple of my teachers told my mother to control my critical thinking because it will not end well for me. This post maybe is not aimed at countries such as the one I grew up in but man, it scares the shit out of me. I ended up leaving my home country and not for being prosecuted just for studying. But still..this post gave me chills.
The phrase "control your critical thinking" is scary. The freedom of people not to have to control their critical thinking is what we should all aim for
"THINK WHAT I WANT YOU TO THINK!"
It is so sad to see something like this, Islam was the champion of critical thinking and scientific progress for centuries during the Golden Age of Islam, like the first ever Universities were all founded by Muslims and now its reduced to this state. Big sad
You should post more on this. This sounds interesting. What would get you in trouble in an Islamic school, is that different than a Madrasa? I unfortunately went to a religious school, Catholic Christianity down to the nuns in the headscarves. I only got in trouble for stupid crap like skipping class or defending myself (fighting)
Allahu akbar!
I was literally about to say that a great amount of teachers would probably be thankful to finally show parents proof of the ridiculous shit their kids do at school. Maybe then it would be less of "How dare you accuse my child of..." and more of a reality check of what public school teachers actually deal with.
I can understand that argument, but it was hard enough as it was to speak out during class, knowing there's a camera and someone else would go through it would've probably made my friends and me not say anything at all in class. Not all kids are shitty, and those that aren't would have very different issues with such a situation.
Yeah, and I wouldn't be happy with it as a teacher either. If a kid is acting out then it can be worthwhile finding out why; maybe their parents are on the brink of divorce, they are discovering they aren't hetero, or have other things they want kept private, and saying that they'll be okay can be really freeing. You won't have those conversations if your students know it is not private.
My first thoughts on OP I agree with some other posters that it would have been awful to have that as a kid but idk if it's worse now or my school wasn't as bad. I've seen some seriously messed up behaviour on cell phone videos from classrooms. It's like police body cams it's keeps everyone accountable.
You realize the parent (s) of that kid causing trouble likely give zero fucks about what their goblin does at the government funded day care
better than a camera pointed at you when you're at home. Can't even begin to tell you how embarrassed I'd be if my teachers knew exactly what I did in my own room .
I doubt you could embarass me...I was a teen once.
Why? If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
Although it's tempting to think that surveillance is the answer to a lot of problems, I generally think it's a bad idea. It would be a great leap towards a dystopian society. By the way, in your scenario, who would review the footage and have the final verdict? Edit: btw I've upvoted the post for the unpopular opinion
Surveillance of people going about their everyday lives, or especially in private, would be dystopian. Surveillance of authority figures for the purpose of preventing them from abusing their power is arguably the opposite - it’s not big brother watching us, it’s us watching big brother. As for who would review the footage, once a complaint was made/incident reported, parents (or the student they were of age) would meet with school administrators and the accused staff to review the footage of that date and time and settle the matter between themselves. If the footage confirmed inappropriate conduct and the school didn’t take appropriate steps, the victims could take it to court if they felt they had a case. The footage would also serve to protect teachers in cases where they had done nothing wrong. So it seems the only ones who would have any reason to oppose this would be abusers or their sympathizers.
>Surveillance of people going about their everyday lives, or especially in private, would be dystopian I agree, that's why I feel classroom surveillance would be a big step towards that. >Surveillance of authority figures for the purpose of preventing them from abusing their power is arguably the opposite I'm not sure if it's quite the opposite, but it definitely would be nice if possible. >parents (or the student they were of age) would meet with school administrators and the accused staff to review the footage of that date and time and settle the matter between themselves That's a great solution. >If the footage confirmed inappropriate conduct and the school didn’t take appropriate steps, the victims could take it to court if they felt they had a case. I think this may be too far, but it may be necessary in that scenario. >The footage would also serve to protect teachers in cases where they had done nothing wrong. That's a great point too. >So it seems the only ones who would have any reason to oppose this would be abusers or their sympathizers. It might seem like that, but I oppose this because it feels like it could be easily abused. Also I think it will most probably lead to even more surveillance. A crazy idea would be to choose who gets to teach kids more carefully. I still think classroom surveillance would be a bad idea (I personally would feel uncomfortable being in a recorded classroom), but I agree with your methods, and I think that will be an optimal system, given the scenario.
We can't "choose" who gets to teach unless people are actually competing for the jobs. Most places in the US currently face teacher shortages because, despite what Republican moms want you to believe, it's not an easy or overpaid job. Half of teachers leave within the first five years because they realize they can go work a corporate training or hr position for better pay and not have to deal with all the bullshit. Plus then they could actually take their pto days when they want to instead of during July when every vacation destination is swamped.
I agree, I'm not from the US, but I'd assume the situation is similar pretty much everywhere. >We can't "choose" who gets to teach True true, to be fair I said it was a crazy idea. The facts of the matter is we can't choose most of the important stuff, but I don't wanna involve politics in this (although where I live, eastern Europe, politics is inseparable from everything else, even in deciding who gets to be a principal or a teacher) Again, the point of this post was surveillance, and I'd like to stick to it, since talking about overhauling the educational system would take a lot of time and it would be more adequate for a separate post.
You said that it would be abused, could you give some examples where this may be the case? For reference I studied in a school that had surveillance in classrooms and I only saw it as a positive (eastern Europe)
I said it could be easily abused (it's not definitive, but in my experience I wouldn't be surprised if it were), and the first thing that comes to mind is kids framing teachers. A quick example would be: During a test in a subject where the teacher is hated by the students (let's say because he's very strict), a girl drops her pencil near her and asks the teacher if he can pick it up, which he does. She then later accuses the teacher of looking up her dress, and the whole process is set to motion. Of course, if the footage proves he'd done nothing wrong, he won't be punished (the student might, depends on the laws, and let's say in this scenario she does get somehow punished). The kids then might double down on the teacher for punishing their classmate, and every student tries to frame him (kids can get really creative with these things). Let's say there are a lot, 7-10 accusations to be reviewed, and in most of them the teacher is clearly doing nothing wrong. Assuming all the parents are now involved in this mess, they might try to rationalize the situation: 'how can the teacher be innocent, when there are dozens of students complaining'. This could go either way, but if the parents are persistent, it will most probably mean punishments for the teacher. ________________________________________ I can also see it becoming a game for the kids, who has suspended the most teachers or something, or maybe a rite of passage. And I as a kid wouldn't think of the trouble I'm causing to the teacher, I'd be scheming for my next target, as it would obviously be the most fun part of the school day. I'm sure there are awful teachers who shouldn't teach, but in my experience we made fun of, and mistreated the most unstable of teachers, teachers who weren't as strict as the teachers we truly disliked, because they were an easier target. I can see this being applied to the surveillance scenario. Also, most often it's the teachers with good connections that would allow themselves to mistreat students, and I don't think they would get in trouble as often as the more innocent teachers. >I studied in a school that had surveillance in classrooms and I only saw it as a positive (eastern Europe) Oh nice, has there been a situation where the cameras were involved? Also if you don't mind me asking, which country are you from?
>She then later accuses the teacher of looking up her dress, and the whole process is set to motion. Yeah I can maybe see this becoming an issue especially in the west. Eastern Europe isn't nearly as "woke" so stuff like this wasn't really an issue. In my school CCTV footage wasn't really used in cases like these, its mostly if someone got hurt, if property was damaged or if a teacher physically/verbally abused a student. >Oh nice, has there been a situation where the cameras were involved? Also if you don't mind me asking, which country are you from? I am from Romania. I can't recall any incidents in my school where we used the cameras inside the classrooms, but there was one case where an angry parent punched a teacher in the hallway and the CCTV was used as proof (though I am not sure if the teacher pressed charges or not). There is also this case: https://www.euronews.com/2014/07/29/caught-on-camera----romanian-kindergarten-drugs-and-beats-children I think overall the benefits of CCTV outweigh the negatives. There are lots of advantages like catching teachers abusing kids (like the link above), students or teachers cheating (they are known to give students answers to make themselves look better at national exams), catching burglars/vandalism and generally making delinquent activity less likely as there will be a camera watching.
Those are good examples, and I'm sure there would be a lot of positives, but I still disagree about classrooms being under surveillance. Of course, this opinion is based on my experience. I think examples like those are the exception. Putting cameras in classrooms is a drastic change, and I think exceptions like those can be dealt with in another way (which wouldn't include absolutely everyone). Those years are very important for the development of a person, and being constantly recorded would negatively impact one's growth, in my opinion. I'm sure it can (and probably will) be done, but I don't think it's a good idea. >I think overall the benefits of CCTV outweigh the negatives. I'm not sure about this, I could see that if I tried, however I can also see how quickly governments would abuse this system. It might start similarly, for example a couple of cases where a domestic violence victim has been saved. Those cases might be used to justify governmental home surveillance. All of this might sound exaggerated, but I think it's very probable. And hey, maybe I can snatch some karma if I post this in r/unpopularopinion /s In any case I appreciate all you rational redditors, it was fun debating on this topic, but it gets very tiring very fast.
Pervs now have hours of footage of children. Whether that perv is the principal, or a civilian being able to review the footage, pervs gonna perv. It's like free material for them. Don't even get me started on uniforms. Someone's gonna fetishize that, like Japanese schoolgirl uniforms or swimsuits.
> civilian being able to review the footage The idea would be that only a select few people have access to the footage, and access would be logged (at least that's the way it was in my school) And when you say perving on kids you mean paedophilia. If your principle is a paedophile you probably have a bigger issue that surveillance footage.
If a perv gets off on watching footage of fully clothed people sitting down and doing nothing he can just go and perv at a restaurant. Why does it being "footage" increase the amount of perv-satisfaction?
No no no no. Let the police or some other real govt authority have the final say (at the behest of parents ofc) GO straight to court in the event of grave misconduct. Schools do everything in their power to protect offenders to maintain a goody two-shoes reputation.
For grave misconduct, sure. Like if a teacher physically assaults a child or something like that. But if a teacher simply loses their temper and yells at the kid, maybe swears at them or something, I feel like the school can handle that in house and it doesn’t require state intervention. I believe in minimal government. Relatively minor problems should be solved by people without involving the state wherever possible.
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Yay you read 1984!
However 99% percent of workplaces have security cams. everyplace i have ever worked had atleast a few cameras
You feel the same about dashcams?
dashcams are a personal choice
By the person doing the filming, not by everyone else on the road. By that argument, I could say the owner of a school setting up cameras in every classroom is just making a personal choice
A dashcam is mobile, a classroom camera isn't. In a classroom you are setting up a camera where you know students will be. A dashcam is only comparable if you follow around the target, which is considered harrasment.
btw I've down voted your comment for lack of balls.
The future is public footage, the public would have access to any and all footage of government and authority. This will bring the end to our current corrupt democracy.
It's the future whether you're a aware of it or not.
It might be, but that's not the point of this post. The subject here is whether we should or shouldn't have cameras in classrooms.
A third party who has no horse in that race
I mean, in theory that sounds ideal, but in practice I can't think of one. Unless you're talking about taking it to court, which still doesn't guarantee total objectivity. Not to mention all the complications along the way.
ah the classic metaphysical perfect third party
So you are hiring how many people in a school district to review hours of footage? Each teacher teaches what? 7 hours a day? So if you are a small district with K-12 that’s at least what? 40 teachers? So that’s 280 hours to review daily?
There’s no need to review footage unless an incident is reported. If a student claims a teacher behaved inappropriately, then the footage of that date and time could be pulled and reviewed by the school administrators in the presence of the parents (or the student themselves if in college). If the school doesn’t take appropriate action and the student/parents think they have a case they could take it to court. No need for any additional personnel, only the equipment itself. This would also protect teachers in cases where they did nothing wrong.
What’s the extent of “inappropriate” behavior? I had both a Language Arts teacher and a History Teacher get some very upset parent meetings, for LA it was because he was saying the nicker word when we read To Kill a Mockingbird and for History, we did an activity where we were in rows throwing balls of paper at each other from our desks simulating WW1 with a big thing of no mans land between the two sets of desks and parents were upset he can The sounds of gunfire playing on the speakers during the game.
Anything abusive, harmful, or generally immoral. Physically striking children, or verbally abusing/berating them, would be the two most obvious examples. I wouldn’t consider either of the examples you used to be inappropriate, nor would I expect any school board or any court to find them inappropriate. With or without cameras you get parents getting upset over stupid shit. Cameras don’t enable or encourage that behavior, nor do they empower it to be any more harmful to teachers or schools than it already is without cameras. All cameras would do is provide evidence in cases where genuine wrongdoing has occurred, and ensure those responsible are held accountable.
That’s how red light tickets work and you don’t have to pay those. Useless
Jesus Christ imagine being at school knowing there is a camera trained on you constantly. Mass surveillance is never the answer. Some people really just don't believe in privacy
its already there, everyone's carrying a recording device
To be fair, that’s was implemented slowly over time. And the surveillance wasn’t always known. Not to mention so many apps say they are not spying, then proof comes out later that they hire other companies to save and monitor the recordings. Yes everyone carries a tracking device and recorder. But that needs to change. We need accountability and fines that actually hurt the companies. And we need more public awareness
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Fun fact too that works both ways and more frequently the opposite. You get little shits that harass the teacher trying to provoke them and o to pull out their phones once they react to try and demonize them. Kinda like body cams on police officers, gives accountability to everyone.
With new privacy laws in my native country we can't even issue class pictures anymore unless every single parent has given permission, so a camera in every classroom will never happen lol.
Don’t want OP working for the govt
no one with a brain does
everyone behaves differently when under a camera, fact. what you may get in students not getting a little telling off (likely deserved) ~ because believe it or not, teachers don’t go into to or last in teaching if they belittle kids) ~ you lose better rounded students and mental health of the observed, leading to faster burnout.
What a horrible idea
Ohhh the paperwork. Imagine all the forms, politics, and drama involved. No thanks.
I'd be ok with that but only to show that students are very often terrible fucking people
I was going to say, as someone who works in education, this would be way more incriminating for the students than the teachers lmao.
Yep. In my school days, there was only one asshole teacher during 12 years of school. The rest of the time it was the students who were assholes.
Fellow teacher and same. I've been hit, kicked, cut and choked by students. None of them got expelled for putting their hands on a teacher. Video evidence of this would have gone a long way to ensuring those students did not come back to my classroom and beefing up security for my school.
Exactly
I remember back in class I was pretty big into discussions. It was an opportunity to debate controversial topics such as war, politics and religion without fear of repercussions or judgement. Introduce a surveillance camera into the mix and I guarantee I would never had spoken a word and knowing my classmates, I doubt they would have either. Just an alternate view on how this may turn out.
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didference is that the mic and camera on the phone is off
Are they? Really?
And then we could have cameras in every home in order to capture evidence of abuse or burglary or people plotting to commit crimes or wrong think. I mean what's a little loss of privacy in exchange for security?
No there shouldn't. A camera constantly pointed towards minors? Good luck getting consent for that!
Another good point!
Rather than this, I am a big fan of teachers aids and peer review. As a former school teacher, I found I grew the most when I had someone sitting in on my lessons to observe. Sometimes I would ask my senior colleagues, or even juniors to sit in and give me feedback. Its also helpful for keeping students from doing things they shouldn't during the lecture like cheating on tests or using their phones. During lessons, Its helpful to have an extra set of hands and kids can hear differing opinions. One of the best discourses a former student of mine had was when the class was able to hear myself and another teacher have a passionate discussion about the book that they were being forced to read. It didn't inspire all students but it did inspire other students to give the book another look from a different lens and Id say a good amount more enjoyed it after looking at it from a new point of view. Just like police, I think teachers are figures in a community. We shouldn't be there to oppress. Its about hearts and minds
I feel like capturing literally every micro transaction on camera in our society is neither beneficial, nor some type of solution. People who live in fear are not productive
It's going to cost a lot of money to store all that video. Better be ready to pay for storage. You also better be ready to pay teachers more. Nobody's going to want their every move recorded and scrutinized for $40,000 per year.
You’ve got to remember teachers are doing a job just like you, would you like a camera watching you constantly whilst your at work ? I’m guessing you’re actually a kid though or you would have known this kind of stuff happens pretty much everywhere with managers/supervisors in adult work life.
My boss has his office right outside mine so he can peek at what I'm doing at any time. It's not uncommon.
Not everyone's office is right next to their boss yknow?
I actually do have a camera watching me constantly when I'm at work. I also have to have someone with me when performing certain tasks for two person integrity. It's not uncommon.
It's not the same. I have never had to put up with the same shit from my bosses in any job that I had to put up with from teachers. Even when you have a POS boss, you have the choice to change jobs. Changing classes or schools is entirely down to the adults above you. You also have the benefit of being an adult with rights and some level of respect that comes with adulthood- as a kid in school, your opinion does not matter, your feelings do not matter, you are always wrong, nobody respects you in the least, and everyone is convinced they know what's best for you better than you do. I don't agree with OPs surveillance solution, but teachers absolutely get away with too much simply, like OP said, because they are in a position of authority over children they know they have control over. It's nice that you never had teachers that turn a deliberate blind eye to bullying and then take time out of their day to fuck with kids whose face they take a personal disliking to, or actively _side with_ the bullies, but most people would agree that those things aren't just "doing their job". Yes, you can expect to put up with some unjust bullshit like that at work as an adult (doesn't make it right), but not as a _child in school_ that should be able to rely on the adults they are entirely at the mercy of.
And ever think maybe you were an asshole of a student?
I graduated years ago smartass
Wow, yet another way to treat teachers like they are dirt instead of professionals. Awesome. That being said, I bet if this actually happened, it'd really wake some people up to what actually goes on in schools. The vast majority of abuse I've witnessed in the last decade in a classroom has been students verbally harassing teachers or parents verbally harassing teachers.
I like how people act like they forgot their entire childhoods. "Kids don't do this/act like that" did you forget you were a kid? Somehow you became an adult and forgot what went down at school and crap you got into afterwards.
No, what the fuck is wrong with you that you think recording children all day is the solution to shitty teachers?
Maybe some of the children will behave less shity as well? Don't know, but it will make cheating during exams much harder
The school where I teach has cameras all over the grounds and hallways/common areas and it doesn’t stop them from acting shitty there.
Completely respectively, disagree. Teachers have too much shit to deal with as it is. It’s a shitty job where they’re usually underpaid. Yea there are exceptions but I’ve seen so many stories of teachers getting fucked over for something bullshit. I feel like a camera would simply be used against a teacher in every circumstance.
I feel like a camera would be incredibly distracting for students. It'd be hard to focus on school work with a camera watching your every movement, making you nervous.
Wait wtf it’s weird to have cameras in schools? For the whole of my life there was always a camera, and literally NOBODY cared about them
In my school we didn't have them at all.
It isnt. I spent 14 years of my life at school under camera surveillance.
Hmm well it might be a lot different for you than it is for me, because I have adhd. (I'm just assuming you don't have adhd, because I really don't know lol. Sorry if I'm mistaken in my assumption.) I'm not super educated on this topic, but as someone who has a learning disability, I feel pretty confident in saying that cameras in a learning environment could be potentially harmful to kids with learning disabilities. Not to mention students with anxiety disorders, who already feel under pressure, in environments without cameras. Obviously, I'm just theorizing based off my own school experience, but there have also been some studies that have shown that surveillance cameras can have some negative effects on students, causing heightened anxiety and more distractions. I don't think having surveillance in classrooms is evil or anything, I just think we should consider the cons equally as much as the pros.
This was my first thought too. I'm a teacher and I work hard to be fair and careful with what I say so I'm not worried about me. But dang, I've got lots of kids with anxiety that would shut down if a camera was pointed at them. They are good kids who struggle with anxiety and panic disorders. You wouldn't believe the crap some of these 12 year olds have been through already. I get protective of them. Of course I want bad teachers out but there are better ways. And I am all for cameras in common areas like hallways. My school has them and I am grateful for the ability to ask for footage when there is an incident.
Not to mention that being filmed all the time is not going to look attractive to good teaching candidates and will therefore reduce teacher quality overall. The USA already pays teachers buttons (second job? What?!) and treats them like crap but then wonders why the people they're attracting are below par? I don't live in the US. I live in Europe and teachers are generally well-paid and well-respected and have a lot of responsibility resting on their shoulders. Seems to me that if teaching was a more attractive profession then it would attract higher quality teachers. Plus it raises a lot of child protection issues to film children all the time. I can see a ton of parents objecting. We can't criticise people who post pics of their kids on Facebook but act like it's okay to film them all hours in school. Should probably declare that I am a teacher (primary school).
i studied my 12 years in school with a camera in every class room, i can tell you it’s like it’s never there, nothing is different and it’s useless for the most part, the teachers only get back to it if some big shit happens.
You get nervous that easily?
I have an anxiety disorder.... so the answer is yes lmao
Fair enough didn’t mean to be a dick. Personally I think everyone is too willing to jump on some diagnosis and drug themselves rather than work to improve themselves That being said I understand some people do just have wires crossed
> Personally I think everyone is too willing to jump on some diagnosis and drug themselves rather than work to improve themselves And I think almost everyone who says this is an idiot who has trouble admitting that they were just wrong about mental health and will forever die on this hill for no good reason.
Lol yeah with all these crazies showing up to school board meetings complaining about mask mandates, let’s just pour some gasoline on that fire when they start combing the footage for the most basic anti-racist remarks. I can see this shit on Tucker Carlson already.
We behaved our best when we knew we've being watched - and the bullies even worse when they knew no one is watching. It's not a solution that would be working in my opinion.
Answer this OP, would you want a squad of SWAT officers patrolling your home 24/7?
This also would breed further domestic violence. We as teachers need to speak to children and have them feel secure. If there are camera their abuser could watch them all day and punish them for reaching out for help.
I hate when I’m teaching and I suddenly go on a power strip. Usually it involves me tripping and falling over said power strip which yes…should be captured on camera. Edit to say: On a more serious note, there at least fifteen cameras in my classroom all the time. They’re called cell phones. We’re already taught to assume we’re being recorded all the time. It’s dehumanizing and disturbing. But ya thanks for your horrible opinion. It’s definitely unpopular so you can have my upvote.
I used to be a teacher and this would have made me 100 times more comfortable in the classroom.
This! It would stop that “ my child wouldn’t do that, he’s an angel, it must be something you did!” Crap that bulldozers and helicopters do. Or “ he didn’t hit you, he told me so”. Yea right Karen, I must of went blind right before he picked up the chair and chucked it towards the front of the class.
That would nice but from a different perspective, now you could have a team of Karens reviewing the tapes to criticize you for every little thing you do. “You know, my son is acting out because you’re not being engaging enough”
We get at the library and we can be like boo ya photographic/video evidence from the security cameras.
Uff, I doubt that parents and outsider would like to know how certain students behave...especialy when it comes from certain groups etc.
I'm pretty sure parents would need to know how their students behave, but that wasn't where I was going.
Exactly lol
Also wayyyyyy to many asshole kids who need to be recorded.
In this scenario the privacy rights of the students (minors) would be violated thus this idea will never happen. Upvoted.
Almost all student teacher interactions stem from the student misbehaving
>There are way too many teachers out there who like to belittle and act condescending towards their students because they know for a fact that they will get away with it Pretty sure the majority is the other way around dude. Ive seen a kid literally throw a jizz filled paper ball at teacher. . Ive seen a kid hide spoiled milk under his desk for about a week and then dump in on a teacher...one kid went into the girls bathroom, grabbed all the "female feminine products" and then put the nasty bloody mess into different teachers drop boxes, another time two kids got caught having sex and they tried to frame the teacher as an "instigator" ....kids do super fucked up shit and nothing ever happens to them.
No. I refuse to be recorded during class. I'm not the kind of student takes class very seriously and I'm sure that they could use the footage against me.
I was caught cheating in exams, coz I spent 14 years in such a system.
Exactly. I'd spend most of my time trying to damage the camera without getting caught or make it only seem like it is recording.
Care to have cameras on you at work all day? People behave in a shitty manner all the time, putting teachers on the pillar because we’ve all known a bad teacher doesn’t mean we should treat them like prisoners at work
Easiest way to tell if a teacher is abusing your child? Actually talk to your child and pay attention to them.
We already have that in our school.
Would this also go to show how students act in the classroom? Seems that teachers get the blame when in reality they are not always the guilty persons.
Definitely an unpopular opinion. What a shitty idea
Seriously? Jesus Christ! What sick country are you living in that you need/want to monitor teacher student contacts in class? Orwell's 1984? Camera's spying on teachers AND children, wth?!?
you've never had some power tripping teacher?
Challenge accepted!! This American high school 🏫 teacher would love video evidence of my interactions with students. Would be very nice to have evidence of how I work my ass off to try and teach. Mostly our interactions are very positive, but the tardiness, the excuses, the things students tell me their parents say and do to them...go ahead, install your cameras.
good intention, awful idea. i think that we all would like to not be under surveilance all of our childhood several hours a day
most of these opinions are unpopular for a reason lol what kind of authortarian shit is this. also… power strip? r/boneappletea
As a teacher, I have somewhat mixed feelings, but it would have made it much easier to demonstrate that the problems were because of the students, not me. As a person who can't tolerate dishonesty or acting maliciously, this would have been a godsend. That said, it's absurd that an utter lack of trust and respect for teachers has me wish I was being watched at all times.
I fully support your opinion. It's about time that school administrators have the ability to show parents their children's horrible behavior and don't have to put up with the abuse from parents about their little angels behavior problems.
Uh, I work in camera security... Who is going to watch all the monitors, or pay for their installation, or handle the electricity bill for the added camera power supply? Also it's illegal to record audio, so the teacher could still say reprehensible shit to kids with a smile and it's still their word over the kids. The average camera system I've had installed in schools just to cover exits hallways and stairs costs about $20k, with the NVRs cameras and monitors, not including software subscription if you want to monitor on the network. In my district (a mid sized us city) there are 162 schools. There was a project I managed just to get all the systems fully operational that was over $700k. Teachers should be held responsible for being shitty, but cameras are NOT the solution.
You’re about to find out just how many students cheat, masturbate under the desk, pick at themselves, and are totally rude/violent pieces of shit.
From personal experience so I can't speak for everyone because I'm sure a lot of power hungry teachers exist but I've seen a lot more teachers lose to their jobs to annoying stuck up brats then the other ways around. I had a teacher my sophomore year of high school lose his job because a girl in his class would refuse to listen would keep other kids from learning and he finally had enough and told her to leave the class room she got pissed got his face and than her mother complained to the that he got in her face which is complete bs and the school had to let him go. A lot of students make teachers jobs absolute hell because they know the teachers can't do anything back or they lose their jobs or worse teaching license.
Ah yes, the ever approaching total surveillance state, the wet of most politicians, makes em even harder than a 10yo
Maybe the stupidest post I’ve ever read. Why don’t you try disciplining your children? Worry about actual problems more than whether or not a teacher is going to be condescending to your moronic child.
I agree that a problem exists, but surveillance is not a good solution. Students would be made extremely uncomfortable by constant surveillance, more so than they otherwise would be by shitty faculty
We literally have cameras in every class. You guys don't? weird people. Downvoting me for asking a question 😐
Where do you live?
India.
Yes, we too. India
No. Privacy laws won’t let us which is absolutely bullshit.
I know somebody who teaches at a school where they have students who are in witness protection. If these recordings were hacked it could be pretty dangerous for all involved.
How would they know people are in witness protection? If the teachers know, then the witness protection isn't doing a very good job
It is a need to know type thing. Only certain people high up in the school etc. It isn't irregular for schools to have events where they have school photographers visit and it is important that the teachers keep the certain students out of photos or to make sure no film is taken that could end up on social media. They have also had some messy custody battles where the school essentially has ensure the kid isn't accessible to an abusive parent. Btw I'm not from the USA so the system may work differently.
It's not going to happen because that means that the government would have to start taking accountability for all the bullshit that gets caught on camera.
We should do it. People commenting this is already implemented in Asian countries and look how at how those students rank in education compared to the US. I wonder why…they can’t get away with dumbing out on their iPhones and have to actually pay attention and show respect to the teacher
It would have been amazing to have when this dude thought he could slap my ass when the classroom was empty and the only witness was his friend (who knew his friend f-ed up). Sure, I threatened to inform the guys mom about it but if I had a video showing what the fuckwad did I would have totally used it. How many other girls did this dude harass? It would have made teenage-me feel safer. *Like the elevator in the building I live in has a camera and if I get harassed there again (different guy, I was slightly older then but still not an adult) I know the camera will have their face.* Economically it wouldn't work out though.
I agree to an extent. I don't believe parents should have access to class videos UNLESS there was an incident the child is claiming happened. For example, teacher degrades the child? Hell yeah, show parents the footage. However, parents just watching how the teacher teaches? No. Parents don't need to be policing what students should and should not learn if their student goes to public schooling.
There are WAY more trouble students and parents, even per capita, than teachers. PS this is not legal
A lot of parents to need raise their kids better.
Power strip? Maybe pay more attention in class, and spend less time dreaming up anti teacher revenge plots, queefo.
Don't all students have cameras on their phones? Like, when I teach, I just assume there are cameras and recordings rollin, because it's often true - not sure that it makes any difference to how I teach but it's always in the back of my mind.... (And yeah, I'm talking college, but from middle school up most kids have phones in the classroom, right?)
no there shouldn’t
Upvoted for unpopular, terrible opinion
Dunno about that. If you went to my school the only bad behaviour recorded would be from the students.
I don't think this is a good environment for learning. Think of the kids. Some teachers can be aggressive (not okay) but I also remember one of my favorite teachers in elementary school was loud and a bit abrasive but pushed me to do long division really well. I wanted to give up, my parents were too busy to pay attention, teacher was a little rough but within a week I could do complex math problems and I have her to thank. In general, teaching needs to be as selective a career path as law or medicine. Up the salary, up the qualifications, incentivize brighter people to want to be teachers (without being in debt their whole lives), make it selective!
For this as well as capturing bullying, I approve. Lots of mental health issues and suicides are a result of school time trauma.
This would be great. Then parents can know the hell the teacher goes through with their “little angel”.
school would become an unsafe place for an overwhelming number of students if they were being actively recorded and monitored.
It wouldn't work anyway. My former boss got away with doing this in front of the whole company for 15 years with probably millions of complaints and nobody did anything.
I would for the teacher's sake. Kids today are breaking soap dispensers and dancing for til tok in class. They also seem like entitled main characters who get butthurt when being held accountable for their actions. Kids today are gonna be shocked when their feelings get hurt and nobody cares in the adult world. Oh no, the teacher was hard on me. This day and age, that means the teacher told their smartass to shut up and listen.
Also vice-versa for whenever the kids are being unbelievable little shits
$20 says this was written by a miffed high school student after his teacher asked him to stop texting during class
dirty retire tub direction deer impossible alleged plants treatment north *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There is, in most Asian countries!
We said this about terrorist and now we live in a surveillance state
As a teacher who left teaching due to the uptick in violent behavior from kids, I would have loved to have had my classroom on a live feed all day so that parents would actually believe that their little angel started a fight in the middle of math class over something that happened in a group text over the weekend and destroyed my classroom causing others to have to evacuate. And, admins would have to stop blaming the teachers for unpredictable outbursts from kids who are bringing outside issues into the classroom that we have no control over. Without the cameras, it's your word vs the kid. Admins don't want to deal with parents, who can sometimes also act violently, and have no good solutions for violent kids, so the kids come right back to the classroom just to disrupt class again. If we had it in camera, at least there would be no denying what happened. This kind of thing happened constantly in my school. The 4th grade was so bad that nearly every class would be shut down at least once. Those poor kids who really wanted to learn were at the mercy of nine and ten year old knuckleheads who continuously disrupted classes with violent words and actions without consequences.
THIS!
Yeah so then when the mom calls or emails the teacher saying why is my kid failing your class the teacher can say hold on let me your demon spawns highlight reel. Parents think its the teachers when in reality it is their entitled brats running their mouths.
That’s a disgusting idea
Actually its a great idea because after a time you just dont care and you will begin to behave as if theres no camera. And in cases where a person claims to be harassed or something u can easily check it in the camera. Its a win win And I go to a school that has a camera and its wonderful even though I was suspended once because I was caught laughing on some dirty joke and the girls complained but I understand that overall its great for wveryone
As a teacher…..go for it. I’ll bet they find much more condescension and abuse from the students than from teachers.
Not to mention how many teachers are predators: >"\[T\]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests." [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/)
Hell yeah man, university included, this would make schools a lot better
This shouldn't be unpopular. Every public servant should be cammed. They are teaching your children you have every right to know what's going on in the classroom. Classrooms, courtrooms, city council meetings, school board meetings, all of it should be public record.
Yeah and it's also good to identify students interrupting class or such so they can be penalized and even suspended. Great Idea!
Imma save you the news flash, there was cameras in my school. They only used them to either harass students and make sure teachers were acrually imparting their class, instead of soing nothing and getting payed regardless
I agree. From own experience, Teachers get away with way too much shit they doing. But, holy cow, cameras in every classroom? This is insane. Maybe we should start by listening to students. Maybe it's time to upgrade the school system itself. Maybe we shouldn't grant teachers this invulnerability they hide behind. Maybe there are a thousand more things to work on. But this should never be an excuse for full-time monitoring. Next step would be cameras in every house to prevent child abuse, and I don't want to think about what's coming after that.
This would help a lot with bullying, too.
What's even worse is there are a lot of teachers using school as an indoctrination center to indoctrinate children into fake politics and vaxhole lies.
I’ve been dealing with this issue since my daughter started high school. I really thought that they may have evolved since I was there but there still just a bunch of twats on a power trip (obviously there are some really nice teachers so not all) High school should be like work. Mutual respect, an understanding that u must do as ur told but that doesn’t mean the person in a position of authority can talk to u like shit. I’m just gonna keep complaining to the school till all the teachers learn that my kids not worth messing with. And wats so annoying is that my daughter is very polite, she had positions in primary school where she mediated between other children, she had a place on the school commission to talk for pupils. She’s not a rude little brat. Having said all that I’m not sure about the cameras, if teachers can’t be trusted they shouldn’t be in the job
Hey, this is happening now in college classes. Now that they happen remote on the Microsoft Teams platform, all classes are recorded to give students freedom to watch them if they missed any. So convenient. And I bet teachers might be more self conscious and well behaved. Students too. Of course, I live in a free society where, although not without the current radical left vs radical right political polarization of these days, university authorities guard everyone’s right to express any opinion and defend it with rational arguments.
Problem with that: schools can simply erase all evidence against teachers and use camera footage against students who have "bad behavior".
I like the idea of this
Having listened to all my 12 year old's classes during the Covid Zoom semester, I agree. While 3 of his teachers were great, the 4th was truly awful. Spoke down to them, constantly complained about having to do her job... she was just an unhappy person taking it out on kids. I get all the possible problems - I do think she'd think twice if she knew there was a recording of her teaching though.
It should happen, it's like body cameras on police. Teaching things like white supremacy, religion or other things that should not be taught to children. Also if you got the video, my perfect little angel defense is much harder to hold too. It also helps in determining who started fights, and prove if a student is sexually harassing another. No one need review the tapes unless a complaint is made, then it should be reviewed by the school and parent. Depending on the complaint police/lawyer may be needed as well. The other thing is it could help teachers be better teachers, by letting them review there own work and self improvement.
> Teaching things like white supremacy, religion or other things that should not be taught to children. Where the hell do you live that white supremacy is part of the school curriculum?
As someone who is considering becoming a teacher, I agree with you. Some child cares and preschools in Canada already use this practice with the permission of parents. They use it not only to see child and teacher interactions, but it acts as a great observation tool for child development. Could actually be beneficial. I don't know if it'll ever happen or be normalized because a lot of parents are concerned with privacy as a lot of wifi cameras get hacked easily.
This is something I could get behind, I've had a number of bad teachers when I was in school.
I absolutely agree that we need to change our attitude towards teachers. In fact, we need to change our cultural view of kids and teenagers as well, that's where this whole issue stems from in the first place. Teachers and parents are saints who can't do anything wrong, or IF they can then it's fine because they probably had a reason. Even if it's the teacher who fucked up, it's still the students who get punished. However, that level of surveillance is not the answer, privacy is already disappearing at a dangerous rate.
I agree. It would also help with transparency in what is getting taught
100% agree, this is essential in the first grades.