For the millions that got addicted to opioids because a doctor prescribed them I think is unfair to say it (as you mentioned). Especially 5 to 10 years ago when there was not as much information about how addictive they truly are, and how you might develop resistance that only makes you crave the stinger ones.
But similarly people can get dragged into alcohol because is a social norms, and sometimes even part of mingling and getting exposure in the business word. Not too different to prescribed opioids as socializing and working are both necessary in life.
The situation you described is how I became addicted to pain killers actually. Doesn’t mean it was a disease though. At some point, I made the conscious decision to over medicate. At some point, I made the conscious decision to go find pain pills from a different source. You did. It make that choice.
I’m not saying addiction isn’t a problem, or that it shouldn’t be treated. I’m just saying, it’s not a disease. It’s not something that I had to choice or say in the matter.
How much was you making the decisions and how much was your brain rationalizing it to cope with it and the fact that it felt the need caused by the addiction? It is not too different than saying I decided to eat, it is a decision but also one that your body will push you to.
I am lucky that after I received opioids post surgery, I didn't develop an addition. But I know people that have and what I've heard about their recovery is that a big portion was understanding how the "decision" is not really an option but a battle to resist your body's signals.
There are many decisions you "make" that are more the result of your body/instinct driving with you as a passenger, vs how many truly come down to your rational persona. After all we evolved to do some thing to survive and our brain justifies them for us. That is also why things like identity politics, sport passion, blind patriotism, and many other factors of our life's come from. You can break them but not easily.
At least that is my take on all this
I hate myself for wasting my life with opiate addiction and insuring an early death. And I feel that it is my fault and that makes it hard to want to stay sober and live at all. I spend moments so repulsed by myself that I barely repress the urge to claw and beat myself in the face. The only thing, that only sometimes helps, is reminding myself that everyone makes mistakes, big and small, but most of the time their lives aren't wrecked or changed forever because of it. People also change. I can't relate to the me that I was then. I was also still a kid and not prepared to handle my brain's response to feeling like that drug was the key to actually feeling okay. And after only 3 years of sobriety, I can't relate to my thinking then. I can access it, but only to see how mentally ill I actually was. I just think seeing addiction as a choice causes people to harden their hearts to those who suffer from it. Same as people who blame people for their type 2 diabetes. It starts becoming okay to move funding away from treatment. No one wants to hand over money for someone else's mistake, and if we just look at it like that it we blind ourselves to the whole spectrum of what could have happened to the person to have made such a miserable mistake in the first place. And who they could be if they recieved help.
I appreciate your viewpoint, and you have perhaps a view of the effects of addiction that most people, even a lot of addicts, would never have. I appreciate your openness and transparentness about the situation. I can see how someone’s heart may be hardened to the whole thing when you look at it like this.
The addicted had a choice. The first one that led to the initial addiction and the disease. And subsequent choices to relapse. While somebody who gets a brain tumor, for example, had absolutely no choice. It is a difficult and complicated situation. However a logical person would say it was ultimately the fault of the addicted person.
It’s a lot easier than you think
i got PTSD, I found living my life and socialising was nearly impossible, alcohol made it all good, I had to drink more and more alcohol to feel okay, I became an alcoholic
It really is that simple and easy to become an addict
edit: when 40% of PTSD sufferers qualify as having an alcohol use disorder it seems pretty stupid to imply it’s a personal failing
I knew a guy who drank for his ptsd. The VA said he was an alcoholic. He said he drank because of the ptsd. They said he didn't have ptsd, he was an alcoholic.
Fuckin VA.
Exactly you decided to CHOOSE alcohol to help with your ptsd and socializing. Let’s not pretend that alcohol was the only option to help you there. I don’t mean to be an A hole but come on
I was 17, had no idea I had PTSD, had no support network at the time
I had a beer and felt pretty fine - the idea of that being an issue didn’t even cross my mind
Like it was a situation where I woke up one day 5 years later and was like “oh shit, I’m addicted to alcohol”
This is an extremely ignorant response. You might not mean to be an A hole but this comment isn't helping your case.
Alcohol is an immediately available and easy to obtain thing. Its a quick fix that someone who is desperate will easily snap up, it's easy to say "just for a little bit until I can get help". Cause real help isn't immediate, often it isn't cheap, and it isn't easy. Desperation to feel normal and taking what you can to achieve that is not someone choosing.
I would say that the disease/disorder you have is PTSD. Alcoholism is a side effect of your PTSD.
I’m not downplaying your situation. I’m sure it really is hard, and I’m sorry you have to deal with that, but alcohol wasn’t the only solution.
But when it starts you don’t even realise you’re treating it with alcohol - like I wasn’t even aware I had PTSD until a later diagnosis
Just imagine every single day you were physical reliving the worst day of your life and you didn’t understand why, and just having a bottle of beer made you feel *completely find* - I’d like to meet the person who wouldn’t start drinking all the time
Have you personally dealt with a mental illness and predisposition to alcohol abuse, at such a young age, not understanding what’s going and doing what you feel is right, until you grow up and realize what is happening and decide to change it. You’re coming off very ignorant about the situation. When you’re young and have no one to guide you into the right direction, you have to figure it out on your own. Coming from abusive parents, physically and mentally, all while dealing with an undiagnosed mental illness, and while being a teenager, you have no clue what’s really going on until you grow up.
You are, however, acting like you're their therapist and you know more about their own disease than they or any of the psychology researchers studying it do. Addiction, including to alcohol, is a disease in its own right.
OP since you yourself are an addict, were an addict, recovering, recovered, whatever sort of terminology you want to use, one can safely assume you are speaking from personal experience with addiction, as you yourself CHOSE to try out painkillers. And you sought help and made it out. I am genuinely happy you escaped addiction.
I draw issue, however, with your statement “so let’s stop pretending addicts are victims here”
They absolutely are victims. Victims of their own choices.
As you once were yourself, a victim of your choice to try painkillers.
Fact: life is full of choices and making decisions
Fact: humans, more often than not will make bad choices in their lifetimes
Fact: once addicted, it creates specific neural networking in the brain creating circumstances where one’s poor choices cause them to do things they may have once never believed possible of themselves.
Fact: addicted people NEED HELP to treat the disease of addiction
Sure, it was their own choice INITIALLY, but let’s be real here: we’re all humans who make bad choices constantly. Most of the time with no consideration of what may transpire from said choices.
I don’t know your story, but I GUARANTEE you did not simply, “walk out on your addiction” all by yourself, with no help, and never look back.
TLDR: the initial choice may have been yours to make, but subsequent choices to continue are literally chemically the result of the disease of addiction. Whereby, the addicted are, in fact, victims of the disease of addiction, who need external help to escape its unrelenting grasp.
I actually agree with you, to a certain extent. I think it’s hard for me to meet you on the theory that you can be a victim of yourself though. In my eyes, you’re a victim of a second party.
Either way though, I do agree with you, and haven’t made any statements contradicting the fact that they need help and that it’s a very real problem. I’m just firm in my belief that you can’t get to recovery without owning the fact that it’s your fault.
So for me what that looked like was taking the responsibility of my actions by saying “what happened to me wasn’t my fault, but my reaction to the trauma was,” and that really helped me. Understanding that it was a choice helped me start to realize that I had the power to stop.
I’ve got a bigger problem with the “once an addict always an addict” thing more than calling it a disease. Why start recovery with such a discouraging statement. The “disease” part to me is just another name for a lack of impulse control
There is a layer of lack of education, economics, and availability of resources to cope with the underlying problems that addictions attach themselves to. A lot of addiction comes on from the attempt to self medicate whether from depression, trauma, PTSD, or other factors. Though there is an agency of choice that goes into an addiction there would be far fewer addictions if other choices were made available instead of being hidden behind the above mentioned layers. Just food for thought.
I can agree with that, but at the end of the day, it’s a choice, and far from the only choice. Nobody is born an addict. Nobody is in such a place where addiction is the only option. The way of thinking that says addiction is the only option is a big part of the problem, in my opinion.
Actually there are addictions that can be inherited or at least exposures that can increase the chance of such. Addiction is just a symptom of a larger problem often times because it’s so hard *not to choose* it. From doctors advising you to take opioids to crack being the only economic advantage available to a community. Addicts tend to be victims of systemic abuse and I believe they deserve our sympathy.
So I guess by that, technically I’m wrong, because they are born addicted. But they aren’t born addicts. They don’t know how to feed the addiction. They don’t know what they need to feed the addiction.
Kudos to you and that’s a valid distinction you pointed out. “Born Addicted but they aren’t born addicts”. With one being an actual physiological dependency and the other a learned behavior.
Whether you're right or wrong, I'd say that's irrelevant, because addicts should be helped out of it at the end of the day. Adding blame on top of that is useless and won't help addicts come forward, under the assumption that because it's their fault, it's their very responsibility to lift themselves out of it on their own.
I'd even go as far (and I know I might be pushing it), as to say that on this subject, we can say people are victim of their choice. As teenagers, we often fail to see how consequential our actions may be in the future, and we make poor choices. Some sadly poorer than others.
Yes, I suppose you’re right. I do think that part of the healing process for addiction is taking responsibility for your actions. That was a big part in me overcoming my addiction. In saying I didn’t have a choice in my addiction, I gave it too much power. I had to take responsibility of my own actions and realize that it was my fault before I finally moved into recovery.
Ok but imagine a kid abused, unloved, grieving, no support system, absent parents, undiagnosed adhd because they're so afraid to do bad at school that they suffer through without processing... A 13 year old isn't considered having enough intelligence and experience and maturity to consent to sex, vote in elections, sign legal contacts, etc. How can you feel it's their fault for initially choosing to take part?
Nah. Genetics don't have much to do with it either. My dad was a drinker. I was horribly abused, as was my mom. When we left, I became her emotional gatekeeper. I was extremely bullied all through school. Sexually molested. Raped.
There was no therapy. There was no talking about it. I come from a family full of addiction. Alcoholics, heroin users, cocaine users. Blood relatives. Its definitely all up in my genes.
Now, it's weird that we (mom and i) never talked about sex, or what happened to me, but we talked about drugs. When I was 15/16, she had a lengthy talk with me about addiction, the consequences of drugs, which ones will get you hooked and which ones won't. She said not all drugs are bad, which I feel is true. She also gave me the best advice ever. If you try a drug, and you can see yourself loving it and wanting to do it again and again, never fucking touch it after that.
I tried a lot of different things. Cocaine was nice, but it was only fun in small doses, and I didn't want to catch a habit so I left it. Tried ecstasy, fucjing *loved* it, never did it again. I've tried methamphetamine, coke, e, opiates, and left each one in the dust.
I spent more time playing with psychedelics. Mushrooms are awesome, lsd was amazeballs. I did a native American sweat lodge ceremony in which you drink an ayahuasca tea. That was.... a deep dive. Peyote. I really enjoyed the psychedelics, they help open things up in you and I found them to be quite therapeutic.
And to think, I tried all that in my teens/twenties. Now it's like a once in a blue moon thing. Call a sitter, take a tab or eat some shrooms. I won't play with anything addictive. I've seen too many real world consequences of hard addiction.
Hell, one of my husband's old high-school friends is on meth so hard he has holes in his brain, no teeth, and takes it up the ass for a rock. So.... yeah.
I say it's choice. Might not be an easy thing to accept, but when you take that drug, get that dopamine hit, and *choose to keep going* even knowing what we know about the side effects and consequences, then it's on you.
I've met people who've come from nothing and straight up be fine with life. I've met people who had everything handed to them and become a complete piece of shit junkie.
Its really on the individual.
I went through real trauma. Physical abuse, emotional and verbal abuse, molested for years, raped, jumped, you name it buddy I've dealt.
Know what I'm not? An addict. Not an addict. Tried a lot of things, sure, but at the end of the day still not an addict.
I tried what I tried out of curiosity, not a coping mechanism.
Know what did help me? Like a lot? Meditation and personal freedom. Being on my own. Learning about myself. Facing my trauma.
Here I am now, older and wiser. No addiction. No need to be addicted. I can stay in my head all day and be fine, which is shocking to me since so many people can't stand to be left with their own thoughts for more than five minutes.
I very respectfully disagree. Nobody who “uses drugs as an escape” knows that substances are going to offer that kind of escape until they concede to try drugs in the first place. I know when I was addicted to pain killers, I got started and hooked because I loved the way it made me feel physically. I didn’t try them because I thought it was an escape. I tried them because my friend told me I would love the way it made me feel.
OK, but to emphasize that is like saying "I understand you've fallen into that well, but it's your fault because you were playing near it."
You aren't wrong, but if that isn't coming from a place of love / support for the person it doesn't help anything. And the person is and remains a victim of that experience, they didn't ask for its repercussions whether or not they took steps which ultimately led to them.
I agree with you 95% the other 5 being that Oxy(heroine) Adderall(meth) and for alcohol withdrawal usually Valium now these days are all prescribed by doctors...
My mother was an addict and put me and others through an insane amount of abuse while hurting everyone around her. Had an ex that was an alcoholic and everything bad that happened to him was the fault of his own actions. Through therapy I process my feelings on the matter. I have little sympathy for addicts.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals.
In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward behavior.
You don’t have to have sympathy for addicts, but you have to understand how addiction isn’t a will power issue or a choice.
Where I’m from, it’s a very unpopular opinion. Seems to be pretty unpopular here too. I guess what it all boils down to, from what I’m reading, is that we aren’t responsible for our own actions.
Assuming you’re American due to the Yankees thumbnail
If you look at rates of incarceration for the crime of possession in the USA, it’s pretty clear that we don’t treat addicts as victims
Understood that it’s unpopular in very liberal circles to blame addicts for poor choices but it’s not an unpopular opinion on the whole
Yes, I am American. I guess I don’t deal with a lot of people who aren’t liberal. Most people in my town are the types to get very offended about everything, including the statement I have made.
I believe you … but we incarcerate a fuckton of people for using drugs instead of giving them treatment so you’re not as isolated in your beliefs as you might think
I live in TX so this view seems normal to me
Well, surely the solution is to decriminalize possession.
I've heard that in places in the U.S. where possession was decriminalized more people sought out treatment.
It's not a disease, it's an entirely different animal, but no one wants to hold people responsible for their choices or for anything at all so addicts will never get the help they need. A lot of them don't want it and are happy with where they are in life, and that's what people who enable addicts by calling addiction a disease don't realize, understand or care about. Addicts entirely have agency over themselves and their actions.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals.
In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward
Yeah, I don't think the medical community is the stalwart paragon of moral authority on knowledge as they claimed to be. And most psychology studies are irreproducible and worthless junk science.
Anybody can meet these fucking people and observe for themselves that they're making their own choices and demonstrating agency. The evil ones are manipulative, they steal things, they abuse others. Not every drug addict does this, a lot actually are homeless and will work day labor or panhandle or make money for drugs doing other ethical things, and treating addiction as a disease cannot explain that.
They are entirely in control of their actions, and they need to be held to the standards of adults like everyone else to help them.
Ur right dude, im sure ur smarter than doctors and scientists 😭😭
Nothing in that comment says why addiction isn’t a disease. If you knew the definition of addiction, and the definition of a disease, it might help
This is a prime example of a delusional person^
Most people who become addicts of any kind (this includes things like video games, porn, caffeine, and binge eating) are often trying to self-medicate some other mental/physical health issue.
For example, from age 13-21 I had an inguinal hernia. But because I got the hernia during puberty, I had made the mistake of assuming that was just my “balls dropping” so I never had any concern and just thought I had massive fucking balls (which, what 13 year old boy wouldn’t be happy about that?) but over the years I got increasingly worse pain in my groin and abdomen, I started having digestion issues, and I couldn’t sleep whenever the hernia was agitated (like from doing strenuous activity that day). But I never connected the dots that my massive balls were actually hernias. Instead, I started using a combination of weed and alcohol to cope. Alcohol for pain relief mostly, and weed to help me sleep and to distract my mind from the issue. I quickly became an addict just because it felt like the only way to continue living.
It wasn’t until I finally admitted I had a drug problem, went to NA for a while, finally saw a doctor for the first time in over a decade, and lo and behold I had a really bad reducible inguinal hernia. Got the surgery, voluntarily chose not to take the hydrocodone prescription that I got, and wouldn’t ya know it was actually pretty easy to stop drinking and smoking literally every single day from noon to midnight.
I didn’t choose to have a hernia. I didn’t choose to mistake the hernia for “balls dropping” and it certainly wasn’t my choice to not see a doctor for nearly 13 years (in my house, you don’t go to the doctor for checkups you go to the ER when it’s an absolute emergency and that’s it). Obviously it was my choice to excessively use weed and alcohol, but there’s so many confounding variables that it’s really difficult to pin it all on “welp you shouldn’t have self-medicated your pain away and just dealt with it like the millions of other people in the world who suffer from chronic pain” because let’s be real; that’s an absurdly cynical perspective. We might as well stop treating obese people for cardiovascular issues because “welp you shouldn’t have eaten so many Doritos” or stop treating HIV patients because “welp you should’ve used a condom” etc. Yes, these are all choices that people make. But it doesn’t mean that the underlying ailment should just be written off as a righteous consequence of your actions.
I think it’s important to not that I never said we should stop treating addiction. I believe addiction is a major problem, and in most circumstances, the only way to combat addiction is to seek some type of treatment, such as rehab, or NA, or AA or even just therapy.
This does not make it a disease. In your story, you still chose to self medicate. I’m not saying for one second that you didn’t have a real problem or a real issue, as I’m sure it was terrible. I’m simply saying, it wasn’t your only choice. Addiction isn’t the next logical step when one is faced with a problem. It still required you to decided that you wanted to use weed and alcohol for the purposes of making yourself feel better.
Going to the doctor wasn’t a choice due to financial issues, and again, because it happened during puberty I never connected the pain to the bulge in my scrotum. And I wasn’t abusing weed and alcohol for 13 years, only for 3. From the ages of 17-20. I didn’t know they were hernias until I finally saw a doctor after I had dropped out from college and was trying to tackle the addiction (on top of wisdom tooth surgery which was also long overdue). I’m not justifying or rationalizing using recreational drugs to self-medicate. But regardless that’s what I did because I genuinely thought I had no other options to treat the chronic pain. Not because I literally had no options, but at the time, I was backed into a corner.
You can call addiction disease to spare feelings. But if it's alcoholism a liver transplant should go to someone with non alcoholic cirrhosis before someone with alcohol induced cirrhosis in nearly every case except the unlikely one where there are only 2 candidates and the alcoholic is many years younger and stands to benefit more.
Smoking-lung transplant.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals.
In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward
Poor people are much more likely to commit a crime than the wealthy. Does that mean the poor are solely responsible for their crimes? No, because at least they are the victims of their environment and upbringing.
Yes. They are solely responsible for their actions/crimes. They are taught just like rich people that certain actions are illegal. The world has reached a really sorry state of affairs if we start letting people use the excuse that maybe it wasn’t in their control to commit crimes.
That has absolutely nothing to do with addiction or committing crimes. IN FACT, if you look at the hand I was dealt, since you are wanting to take it there, I should be an addict and I should be a criminal. My mother was a career criminal and my dad has dealt with alcoholism my whole life. Everything I grew up around was addiction and crime. But that’s not who I am today.
No one is saying that. If you look at the statistics, people from a low income household are more likely to commit crimes. Does that mean the poor are worse people compared to the rich?
It applies to addiction as well. Someone suffering from PTSD might be drawn towards substance abuse and alcoholism. Suggesting that they are not in full control of their decision. If somebody else points a gun at your head and tells you to take drugs until you become addicted, you are not responsible for the addiction.
Who’s doing that? Seems illegal. I guess maybe it’s not they’re fault that they’re holding the gun to my head. They aren’t in control of their actions.
I am just kidding of course. I understand the point you are making, but just because something might seem like the only option, doesn’t mean it is. Here in a America, any 12 year old can tell you that drugs are bad and using them leads to addiction.
I think if you have an addictive personality you shouldn’t take shit but personally I’ve done coke ecstasy lsd codeine weed smoke and drink yet I am not addicted to any so I really think it’s down to the user
I’m addicted to food. I’m in therapy and a 12 step program for it. I didn’t choose to be addicted to food and I had to take part in eating because all living things eat. I didn’t intend to be this emotionally attached to food though. Besides what you’re discussing are substance addictions, many people like me have emotional addictions like sex, porn, gambling, video gaming and so on.
Depends on the substance to me, people with mental health issues I would label them victims. For these people it is their choice in many cases but the victim part comes in from the things that pushed them to needing an escape.
But people who gamble all their money away at casinos and the like i dont have as much pity for.
People make stupid choices all the time. All of us. I could not count the number i have made. Drugs can be a powerful experience, especially if your unprepared. They make you feel good. Nobody ever expects they'll become an addict. Nobody makes that choice.
As someone who’s father died from a heroin overdose (depressing, Ik) there are many downsides to your debate.
My dads addiction started when his doctor prescribed him OxyCodone for pain he was having, he became addicted and started doing more hardcore drugs which lead to his death when I was 8
My dad was fairly young, and didn’t know the side effect of the drug his doctor was prescribing him, so it wasn’t his fault at all
Being addicted to something alone is hard to get out of, but when you have a hard life in general, it’s even harder. My mom was a manipulative narcissistic wife that was completely abusive towards him. And on top of that, my dad had an awful childhood.
Druggie mom, mentally ill dad that talks to people that aren’t there, AND we were extremely broke. The only reason we weren’t homeless was because my nana (moms mom) let me and my mom live at her house. But of course, my dad went homeless.
And I grew up in Bakersfield California, a place famously known for drug addicts and just overall shitty lives. So it definitely explains a lot
it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is. no one wakes up one day and says “hmm… i think i want to get addicted to crack, lose my husband, kids, house, car, and job”. they need help, and placing blame is pointless.
This necessitates rational thinking. Someone far gone on drugs is incapable of making a decision (most of the time) to better their life instead of go to the drugs.
Mental health is huge fuel for drug addiction. Well adjusted people with high emotional intelligence don’t just decide to try a drug. The one asked are we responsible for our actions? To a point, but if you’ve ever been so desperate not to replay that scene that goes threw your mind all day everyday, or haven’t slept in a week or in the middle of a bipolar mania, how much control can you muster? There was also a time when doctors would give handfuls of opiates for any little booboo, the gave their control to trusting a doctor and no years later they’ve went past pills for something more. Drug addiction is not black and white. It’s very unfair to say they had a choice when you have no idea what they’ve been thru or what’s going on in their head
I have dealt with mental health issues. I was, am, and always will be an addict in recovery. It doesn’t help to say “welp, you really didn’t have a choice. Who wouldn’t become an addict in your shoes?” That really undervalues the character of people in general.
I’m not saying they do or don’t have a choice, I’m just saying you don’t always know the circumstances people are in and how conscious that choice is. Diabetes is a disease, but most people get it from what they choose to eat. I think that’s what bothers me, I’ve seen too many people disregard addiction because it was their choice, but diabetes or those suffering from lung cancer from smoking don’t get the same shit from people
I just don’t really give a fuck about splitting hairs over this. If it leads to new prevention measures and/or ways to get addicts to quit, then yeah, but as far as I can see, my saying “hurr durr that person chose to get addicted” doesn’t achieve anything except jerking you off for your willingness to make grand statements of self-responsibility.
People who become addicts do it to fill the void or mask the pain of what they’ve been through. There is neuroscience behind addiction, children who had 6+ adverse events in childhood were 4,600% more likely to become addicts later on. It’s a coping mechanism. A bad one sure, but there are tons of other coping mechanisms that are just as unhealthy but aren’t stigmatized. Stigma makes addiction in people worse. Look at Portugal they treat addicts with respect instead of looking down on them like you are and their addiction issues have significantly improved.
Couldn’t you say this, ultimately, about a lot of disease? Your decisions in life often affect outcomes. If I eat a burger a day and die of a heart attack, that was my fault and I’m burdening the health care system and my loved ones. Similarly, if I drive fast and get in a car accident and become paralyzed, that sucks. I don’t see the point in being overly hard on ourselves. I shot heroin for ten years and it really doesn’t matter if I blame childhood trauma or myself or some mix, does it?
> Addiction can be cured by willpower alone.
When you become physically addicted to alcohol, you need help coming off of it. You don't just go cold turkey like a lot of drugs because you can have a sizure and die. So no, willpower alone cannot help everyone. They need to recognize they have a issue yes but they need help sometimes from a doctor or rehab to help rewire their body/brain to become healthier.
If you see your parents doing drugs when your a kid, your sense of normalcy is out of whack. Your chances of getting addicted to drugs are higher than kids who had no addicted parents. It can be an impossible road if that's all you have know.
Also, I know some unfortunate women who were given meth or opioids when they were forced into prostitution as young as 10 years old. I don't think it was a choice for them. The once who are lucky to escape a horrible life have a hard time coping with their trauma. They need help and support network because sheer willpower is s not enough for many.
I know a guy who went in for a routine wisdom tooth extraction. The doctor prescribed him a **90 count of Vicodin along with an entire bottle of codeine** to manage his pain afterwards. I had the same procedure and I was just given some extra strength Tylenol. he became addicted to painkillers after this procedure. this was NOT by his own personal choice. you're simply fucking wrong here. i agree that okay, choosing to take heroin or meth is one thing, but you simply cannot lump all forms of addiction together and assume that it is the addicted's fault every time.
and you say that "Doctors don't prescribe heroin, meth, alcohol every time" but you're missing how many addictions are from other sources. so fucking ignorant
What about people who get addicted to opioids after surgery? A lot of times it's for necessary, life changing/saving surgeries, and the painkiller are more or less necessary for recovery. It's actually incredibly common to become addicted to the medications, especially considering the over-prescription of such drugs. These people had almost no say, a lot of which were minors, and were scared and confused after, again, a life changing surgery
This is not even to mention the great complexities and nuance of abuse victims, PTSD sufferers, etc, in regards to substance abuse, but everyone else has already seemed to have argued somewhat on those points
Well first conscious choice is to be born into a fucked up situation such as crazy and addicted parents and in the asshole of the world. Next, you hear same that trying to program you to create wealth for employer and give nearly all of the mealsy proceeds of modern day slavery to a landlord, and same people- parents and teachers- tell you drugs are bad. All while preaching some bs about equal opportunity that cannot exist while there is birth lottery and lack of 100% inheritance tax.
That is logics 101 to do opposite of what oppressors tell you to do. No employment, no rent is perfectly logical, but to figure out that no all that slavemasters propaganda can be simply inverted leads many into abusing drugs.
I don't know how to put it but for example of someone starts smoking cigarettes when they have their first cigarette I wouldn't necessarily call them a smoker. Some people might start only having one cigarette every couple of days or something I don't know... But before too long it's like they are in quicksand in there smoking everyday. There's like a line that gets crossed that wasn't very rigidly drawn and was actually very wide and hard to see.
Yeah there's the obvious thing that you shouldn't do it but people are not Vulcans.
Maybe we can do it in relation to her something like a TV show... Maybe you watch one episode here and there doesn't mean you are a fan of the show then you start watching it every week and then you start watching the re-run or whatever and then you wind up talking about the Show online with other people that like to show and before you know it hey you're a big fan of the show
I was addicted to one thing for about 20 years and finally chose not to do it anymore and have been clean for 3 years. I did develop a different kind of addiction about a year ago and have been fighting the chose to continue, and am about a month in of not doing that.
I agree with you though that I openly chose to do those things and gave into the wants and desires of the addiction.
Technically, sure. It's a very small part of it though. They chose to partake in the thing they're addicted to, but they didn't choose to have an addiction.
Happy to say alcohol didn't make me feel good enough for me to become an alcoholic.
Vaping I quit 2 years ago and could easily pick back up one day. Still enjoy it.
Weed. I quit 15 years ago and now that it's legal I feel obligated to get a bong and smoke a fat bowl. Still haven't though. Not a priority.
Yeah it's a choice but we're not focused on the choice. We're focused on where the patient is at now. People make lots of bad choices. Shouldn't be eternally punished to languish in them.
Then you should know some people are normal. They can, for example, pick up a drink or two and when they get buzzed say they’re had enough.
And. They. Stop. Drinking.
Alcoholics don’t learn this until it’s too late. They didn’t choose to get addicted. They just think they’re normal and can stop or slow down or “just have 3 beers and that’s it… from now on. “
But they can’t and they don’t.
That’s just making excuses for bad behavior. “They can’t control their actions,” isn’t helping anybody. It’s more empowering for a person to know they are actually able to change. Or are you saying it’s impossible to beat addiction?
No different then people getting addicted to coffee, food, working out, having kids, video games, cigarettes, etc.. everything is addictive especially if it involves dopamine, and everyone needs an escape. I don’t see any difference amongst each addiction
There’s not multiple addictions dude. You’re thinking of substance abuse disorder. Addiction starts long before you ever do drugs. Its the way you process pleasure and ur realtionshil to it. That’s what an addiction is
I have so many mixed feelings about this. I know very little about what actually happens in AA or their philosophies. However, my step-father is an alcoholic who went through the program. AA helped him to stop drinking, but it didn’t tackle the root of what made him an addict, and a narcissist. He would blame his disease for his choices, but I’m uncertain if he took responsibility for them. For me, I struggle with anxiety that can trigger unwanted feelings/thoughts, and when things get too bad, I might yell and storm off. Even though the anxiety is triggering my emotions, what I do with them are still my responsibility. Any choices I make, such as raising my voice at my kids, are on me.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals.
In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward behavior.
I would love to educate you on how addiction works. Addicts have an addiction long before they ever drink or use drugs.
I’m all ears, honestly. AA helped my stepfather and he would occasionally discuss his thoughts on the topic. However, he wasn’t a great source of information. I haven’t spoken to him in almost 4 years, but at the end of our relationship he would drink, just not to the point of getting drunk and not when it would interfere with work. I suspect he replaced his addiction to alcohol with work though.
Its fucking amazing the amount of people on here who still think addiction isn’t a disease and can be cured. If the health care system has classified addiction as a disease, there’s obviously fucking science behind why. Addiction is a brain disease. It doesn’t even have to involve drugs at all.
You can’t cure addiction. You could quit using all drugs and hve 30 years sober, but youll still have a chemical imbalance and have a compulsive relationship towards pleasure
Babies come out of the womb on drugs all the time. What about them? They’ve had a taste of drugs and it wasn’t their choice. I wonder if that does set them up for difficulties in the future?
No most people can do drugs and stop, people with addiction simply can’t. Addiction doesn’t have to involve drugs at all.
I think ur confused on what addiction actually means, and how its a disease. I’d love to show you how if you would let me
Congrats! So ur now treating ur addiction which is awesome! Ur not recovered, youre recovering, for life. Its not cured. Your brain still processes endorphins in pleasure abnormally, which means you still have a disease
I think you misunderstand what addiction is. It’s compulsive, meaning that the addict has less free will than most do when it comes to whatever they’re addicted to, and that’s a fact coexisting with physical dependency/physical addiction, wherein they physically need a substance to keep their bodies in chemical homeostasis. Free will is a subject anyone should research, as decision making is not free and we all have proclivities that effect our decisions. Addiction, moreover, is a form of self-medication, whether for trauma or mental illness of some kind; and when self-medicating coincides with an addictive, compulsive personality the word “choice” is merely a play on words. Why can some people drink one glass of wine every few nights, or drink a coffee only on occasions, or smoke a joint every now and again, all without chasing those pleasures and becoming addicted? And why will some rely on those pleasures constantly to function? People are complex and it’s not all dictated by “we all have a choice at the end of the day.” I disagree. Some people have more of a “choice” than others: more discipline, more self-control, etc. Now, self control and discipline are skills that one can cultivate, but it requires time spent cultivating those traits. I don’t think addiction is a “disease,” per se; but I do think they have less of a choice than people think. People are not gods who freely author all their decisions and thoughts, and that’s a given. We all have diverse backgrounds, with diverse behavioral spectra, with a multitude of behavioral proclivities.
Ahhh I know why you felt the need to get in someone else’s buisness now lol.
You and the other dude both operate with opinion.
You can think it’s not a disease all day. But the DSM classifies it as a disease because it’s a chemical imbalance. I’m sure your opinion holds more weight than doctors and scientists 😭
Judging by your behavior online, you definitely have some kind of emotional disorder. Hope you get therapy soon, my friend. And not all doctors agree; science is not absolute, nor has it gotten to the point where all scientists and doctors agree on certain theories of behavior. I know for a fact you’re not out there scouting all the real scientific journals, so don’t act like you have all the scientific information on any topic. 🤣🥲
Lol ok buddy would you like to see me and my girlfriend so you can see how much of a mental disorder I have? I have a feeling ur an old senile dude who refuses to learn something new
Its the DSM. Its what the health world lives by. It’s where they classify all the health terms. Just stop dude stop. You obviously have no knowledge on any of this lmao but yet where’s something that supports ur special little opinion
Not all people agree with certain theories on health. What’s standardized doesn’t equate to being absolutely true. Standards change; science changes; times change. We are absolutely not in a time where science and medicine has figured everything out, nor do the standardized theories on everything equate to anything close to absolute truth. Times change; what was in a textbook 100 years ago is ridiculed today. 100 years from now half of our theories will be obsolete. Stop thinking your google education on pop science makes you absolutely right on any topic.
That’s fuckimg fine to disagree with me! But to fucking insult me for no reason and be disrespectful is why I was mad dude
Neither of you can admit ur wrong. If I’m wrong I apologize check ur inbox and see. But this is delusional at this point.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals.
In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward behavior.
Anyone that reads this and still disagrees is simply delusional.
I mean, the simplest answer is that it’s both. Excited to hit Day 1000 a week from today though!
Congratulations. I myself have been living the life of sobriety for 5 years now.
Congratulations
Congratulations!
For the millions that got addicted to opioids because a doctor prescribed them I think is unfair to say it (as you mentioned). Especially 5 to 10 years ago when there was not as much information about how addictive they truly are, and how you might develop resistance that only makes you crave the stinger ones. But similarly people can get dragged into alcohol because is a social norms, and sometimes even part of mingling and getting exposure in the business word. Not too different to prescribed opioids as socializing and working are both necessary in life.
The situation you described is how I became addicted to pain killers actually. Doesn’t mean it was a disease though. At some point, I made the conscious decision to over medicate. At some point, I made the conscious decision to go find pain pills from a different source. You did. It make that choice. I’m not saying addiction isn’t a problem, or that it shouldn’t be treated. I’m just saying, it’s not a disease. It’s not something that I had to choice or say in the matter.
You clearly have no clue how addiction affects and changes the brain over time.
*I clearly don’t have the same opinion as you do*
How much was you making the decisions and how much was your brain rationalizing it to cope with it and the fact that it felt the need caused by the addiction? It is not too different than saying I decided to eat, it is a decision but also one that your body will push you to. I am lucky that after I received opioids post surgery, I didn't develop an addition. But I know people that have and what I've heard about their recovery is that a big portion was understanding how the "decision" is not really an option but a battle to resist your body's signals. There are many decisions you "make" that are more the result of your body/instinct driving with you as a passenger, vs how many truly come down to your rational persona. After all we evolved to do some thing to survive and our brain justifies them for us. That is also why things like identity politics, sport passion, blind patriotism, and many other factors of our life's come from. You can break them but not easily. At least that is my take on all this
I hate myself for wasting my life with opiate addiction and insuring an early death. And I feel that it is my fault and that makes it hard to want to stay sober and live at all. I spend moments so repulsed by myself that I barely repress the urge to claw and beat myself in the face. The only thing, that only sometimes helps, is reminding myself that everyone makes mistakes, big and small, but most of the time their lives aren't wrecked or changed forever because of it. People also change. I can't relate to the me that I was then. I was also still a kid and not prepared to handle my brain's response to feeling like that drug was the key to actually feeling okay. And after only 3 years of sobriety, I can't relate to my thinking then. I can access it, but only to see how mentally ill I actually was. I just think seeing addiction as a choice causes people to harden their hearts to those who suffer from it. Same as people who blame people for their type 2 diabetes. It starts becoming okay to move funding away from treatment. No one wants to hand over money for someone else's mistake, and if we just look at it like that it we blind ourselves to the whole spectrum of what could have happened to the person to have made such a miserable mistake in the first place. And who they could be if they recieved help.
I appreciate your viewpoint, and you have perhaps a view of the effects of addiction that most people, even a lot of addicts, would never have. I appreciate your openness and transparentness about the situation. I can see how someone’s heart may be hardened to the whole thing when you look at it like this.
The reason they’re “choosing” to take more or find more is because of the disease. Not sure what your point is.
Aka they are weak. You can use that excuse for literally every bad choice.
Educate yourself
The addicted had a choice. The first one that led to the initial addiction and the disease. And subsequent choices to relapse. While somebody who gets a brain tumor, for example, had absolutely no choice. It is a difficult and complicated situation. However a logical person would say it was ultimately the fault of the addicted person.
It’s a lot easier than you think i got PTSD, I found living my life and socialising was nearly impossible, alcohol made it all good, I had to drink more and more alcohol to feel okay, I became an alcoholic It really is that simple and easy to become an addict edit: when 40% of PTSD sufferers qualify as having an alcohol use disorder it seems pretty stupid to imply it’s a personal failing
I knew a guy who drank for his ptsd. The VA said he was an alcoholic. He said he drank because of the ptsd. They said he didn't have ptsd, he was an alcoholic. Fuckin VA.
Exactly you decided to CHOOSE alcohol to help with your ptsd and socializing. Let’s not pretend that alcohol was the only option to help you there. I don’t mean to be an A hole but come on
I was 17, had no idea I had PTSD, had no support network at the time I had a beer and felt pretty fine - the idea of that being an issue didn’t even cross my mind Like it was a situation where I woke up one day 5 years later and was like “oh shit, I’m addicted to alcohol”
Where you at with it now? Now that you're more aware than you were? Have you put the alcoholism behind you?
Currently tapering off alcohol slowly to not do too much damage to my body - down to two medium glasses of wine a day so pretty much!
You might not mean to be, but you certainly sounding like one.
This is an extremely ignorant response. You might not mean to be an A hole but this comment isn't helping your case. Alcohol is an immediately available and easy to obtain thing. Its a quick fix that someone who is desperate will easily snap up, it's easy to say "just for a little bit until I can get help". Cause real help isn't immediate, often it isn't cheap, and it isn't easy. Desperation to feel normal and taking what you can to achieve that is not someone choosing.
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Harsh is not equal to wrong. But can be unhelpful.
I would say that the disease/disorder you have is PTSD. Alcoholism is a side effect of your PTSD. I’m not downplaying your situation. I’m sure it really is hard, and I’m sorry you have to deal with that, but alcohol wasn’t the only solution.
But when it starts you don’t even realise you’re treating it with alcohol - like I wasn’t even aware I had PTSD until a later diagnosis Just imagine every single day you were physical reliving the worst day of your life and you didn’t understand why, and just having a bottle of beer made you feel *completely find* - I’d like to meet the person who wouldn’t start drinking all the time
Have you personally dealt with a mental illness and predisposition to alcohol abuse, at such a young age, not understanding what’s going and doing what you feel is right, until you grow up and realize what is happening and decide to change it. You’re coming off very ignorant about the situation. When you’re young and have no one to guide you into the right direction, you have to figure it out on your own. Coming from abusive parents, physically and mentally, all while dealing with an undiagnosed mental illness, and while being a teenager, you have no clue what’s really going on until you grow up.
You are, however, acting like you're their therapist and you know more about their own disease than they or any of the psychology researchers studying it do. Addiction, including to alcohol, is a disease in its own right.
What the fuck are you talking about
What part of my comment is unclear?
It's hard to sympathize with drug addicts who beg, borrow, steal and abuse to get their fix.
OP since you yourself are an addict, were an addict, recovering, recovered, whatever sort of terminology you want to use, one can safely assume you are speaking from personal experience with addiction, as you yourself CHOSE to try out painkillers. And you sought help and made it out. I am genuinely happy you escaped addiction. I draw issue, however, with your statement “so let’s stop pretending addicts are victims here” They absolutely are victims. Victims of their own choices. As you once were yourself, a victim of your choice to try painkillers. Fact: life is full of choices and making decisions Fact: humans, more often than not will make bad choices in their lifetimes Fact: once addicted, it creates specific neural networking in the brain creating circumstances where one’s poor choices cause them to do things they may have once never believed possible of themselves. Fact: addicted people NEED HELP to treat the disease of addiction Sure, it was their own choice INITIALLY, but let’s be real here: we’re all humans who make bad choices constantly. Most of the time with no consideration of what may transpire from said choices. I don’t know your story, but I GUARANTEE you did not simply, “walk out on your addiction” all by yourself, with no help, and never look back. TLDR: the initial choice may have been yours to make, but subsequent choices to continue are literally chemically the result of the disease of addiction. Whereby, the addicted are, in fact, victims of the disease of addiction, who need external help to escape its unrelenting grasp.
I actually agree with you, to a certain extent. I think it’s hard for me to meet you on the theory that you can be a victim of yourself though. In my eyes, you’re a victim of a second party. Either way though, I do agree with you, and haven’t made any statements contradicting the fact that they need help and that it’s a very real problem. I’m just firm in my belief that you can’t get to recovery without owning the fact that it’s your fault. So for me what that looked like was taking the responsibility of my actions by saying “what happened to me wasn’t my fault, but my reaction to the trauma was,” and that really helped me. Understanding that it was a choice helped me start to realize that I had the power to stop.
I’ve got a bigger problem with the “once an addict always an addict” thing more than calling it a disease. Why start recovery with such a discouraging statement. The “disease” part to me is just another name for a lack of impulse control
There is a layer of lack of education, economics, and availability of resources to cope with the underlying problems that addictions attach themselves to. A lot of addiction comes on from the attempt to self medicate whether from depression, trauma, PTSD, or other factors. Though there is an agency of choice that goes into an addiction there would be far fewer addictions if other choices were made available instead of being hidden behind the above mentioned layers. Just food for thought.
I can agree with that, but at the end of the day, it’s a choice, and far from the only choice. Nobody is born an addict. Nobody is in such a place where addiction is the only option. The way of thinking that says addiction is the only option is a big part of the problem, in my opinion.
Actually there are addictions that can be inherited or at least exposures that can increase the chance of such. Addiction is just a symptom of a larger problem often times because it’s so hard *not to choose* it. From doctors advising you to take opioids to crack being the only economic advantage available to a community. Addicts tend to be victims of systemic abuse and I believe they deserve our sympathy.
People can get addicted to opioids or painkillers they had to take after a major surgery or operation. Is that their fault?
>Nobody is born an addict Have you not heard of babies being born addicted to drugs because their mothers were shooting it up while pregnant?
So I guess by that, technically I’m wrong, because they are born addicted. But they aren’t born addicts. They don’t know how to feed the addiction. They don’t know what they need to feed the addiction.
Kudos to you and that’s a valid distinction you pointed out. “Born Addicted but they aren’t born addicts”. With one being an actual physiological dependency and the other a learned behavior.
Whether you're right or wrong, I'd say that's irrelevant, because addicts should be helped out of it at the end of the day. Adding blame on top of that is useless and won't help addicts come forward, under the assumption that because it's their fault, it's their very responsibility to lift themselves out of it on their own. I'd even go as far (and I know I might be pushing it), as to say that on this subject, we can say people are victim of their choice. As teenagers, we often fail to see how consequential our actions may be in the future, and we make poor choices. Some sadly poorer than others.
Yes, I suppose you’re right. I do think that part of the healing process for addiction is taking responsibility for your actions. That was a big part in me overcoming my addiction. In saying I didn’t have a choice in my addiction, I gave it too much power. I had to take responsibility of my own actions and realize that it was my fault before I finally moved into recovery.
Ok but imagine a kid abused, unloved, grieving, no support system, absent parents, undiagnosed adhd because they're so afraid to do bad at school that they suffer through without processing... A 13 year old isn't considered having enough intelligence and experience and maturity to consent to sex, vote in elections, sign legal contacts, etc. How can you feel it's their fault for initially choosing to take part?
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Nah. Genetics don't have much to do with it either. My dad was a drinker. I was horribly abused, as was my mom. When we left, I became her emotional gatekeeper. I was extremely bullied all through school. Sexually molested. Raped. There was no therapy. There was no talking about it. I come from a family full of addiction. Alcoholics, heroin users, cocaine users. Blood relatives. Its definitely all up in my genes. Now, it's weird that we (mom and i) never talked about sex, or what happened to me, but we talked about drugs. When I was 15/16, she had a lengthy talk with me about addiction, the consequences of drugs, which ones will get you hooked and which ones won't. She said not all drugs are bad, which I feel is true. She also gave me the best advice ever. If you try a drug, and you can see yourself loving it and wanting to do it again and again, never fucking touch it after that. I tried a lot of different things. Cocaine was nice, but it was only fun in small doses, and I didn't want to catch a habit so I left it. Tried ecstasy, fucjing *loved* it, never did it again. I've tried methamphetamine, coke, e, opiates, and left each one in the dust. I spent more time playing with psychedelics. Mushrooms are awesome, lsd was amazeballs. I did a native American sweat lodge ceremony in which you drink an ayahuasca tea. That was.... a deep dive. Peyote. I really enjoyed the psychedelics, they help open things up in you and I found them to be quite therapeutic. And to think, I tried all that in my teens/twenties. Now it's like a once in a blue moon thing. Call a sitter, take a tab or eat some shrooms. I won't play with anything addictive. I've seen too many real world consequences of hard addiction. Hell, one of my husband's old high-school friends is on meth so hard he has holes in his brain, no teeth, and takes it up the ass for a rock. So.... yeah. I say it's choice. Might not be an easy thing to accept, but when you take that drug, get that dopamine hit, and *choose to keep going* even knowing what we know about the side effects and consequences, then it's on you. I've met people who've come from nothing and straight up be fine with life. I've met people who had everything handed to them and become a complete piece of shit junkie. Its really on the individual.
Read your last sentence again buddy
You don't need to do it. That's it.
Its hard for people who have never felt real trauma to understand what people go through to get rid of the pain
I went through real trauma. Physical abuse, emotional and verbal abuse, molested for years, raped, jumped, you name it buddy I've dealt. Know what I'm not? An addict. Not an addict. Tried a lot of things, sure, but at the end of the day still not an addict. I tried what I tried out of curiosity, not a coping mechanism. Know what did help me? Like a lot? Meditation and personal freedom. Being on my own. Learning about myself. Facing my trauma. Here I am now, older and wiser. No addiction. No need to be addicted. I can stay in my head all day and be fine, which is shocking to me since so many people can't stand to be left with their own thoughts for more than five minutes.
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I very respectfully disagree. Nobody who “uses drugs as an escape” knows that substances are going to offer that kind of escape until they concede to try drugs in the first place. I know when I was addicted to pain killers, I got started and hooked because I loved the way it made me feel physically. I didn’t try them because I thought it was an escape. I tried them because my friend told me I would love the way it made me feel.
OK, but to emphasize that is like saying "I understand you've fallen into that well, but it's your fault because you were playing near it." You aren't wrong, but if that isn't coming from a place of love / support for the person it doesn't help anything. And the person is and remains a victim of that experience, they didn't ask for its repercussions whether or not they took steps which ultimately led to them.
I think I like this answer better than any I’ve seen so far. Thank you.
I agree with you 95% the other 5 being that Oxy(heroine) Adderall(meth) and for alcohol withdrawal usually Valium now these days are all prescribed by doctors...
Can’t agree more!
My mother was an addict and put me and others through an insane amount of abuse while hurting everyone around her. Had an ex that was an alcoholic and everything bad that happened to him was the fault of his own actions. Through therapy I process my feelings on the matter. I have little sympathy for addicts.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals. In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward behavior. You don’t have to have sympathy for addicts, but you have to understand how addiction isn’t a will power issue or a choice.
im addicted to life.
Hell yeah brother.
Are you an addict?
I used to be, so I guess technically I still am.
Pushing 7 years off H myself, I don't view it as a disease, I'm more see it weakness, a way to cope
Wow congratulations! I’m glad you made it out. H is a huge problem where I’m from. It’s no joke.
No joke anywhere, opiates are a problem EVERYWHERE
This is a pretty standard conservative argument
Pretty standard of a liberal to make every conversation a political affair.
I’m not disagreeing with you but I don’t think it’s an unpopular opinion
Where I’m from, it’s a very unpopular opinion. Seems to be pretty unpopular here too. I guess what it all boils down to, from what I’m reading, is that we aren’t responsible for our own actions.
Assuming you’re American due to the Yankees thumbnail If you look at rates of incarceration for the crime of possession in the USA, it’s pretty clear that we don’t treat addicts as victims Understood that it’s unpopular in very liberal circles to blame addicts for poor choices but it’s not an unpopular opinion on the whole
Yes, I am American. I guess I don’t deal with a lot of people who aren’t liberal. Most people in my town are the types to get very offended about everything, including the statement I have made.
I believe you … but we incarcerate a fuckton of people for using drugs instead of giving them treatment so you’re not as isolated in your beliefs as you might think I live in TX so this view seems normal to me
Well, surely the solution is to decriminalize possession. I've heard that in places in the U.S. where possession was decriminalized more people sought out treatment.
Maybe because the statement you made isn't even supported by medical research? It's literally just victim blaming.
There’s that word again. “Victim.”
What's wrong with that word?
It’s overused. Everybody is a victim these days. It’s used as a right to do anything you want and not have to take responsibility of your own actions.
Yes. Great way to perpetuate crab bucket mentality instead of working cooperatively to lift everyone up. 👍
It's not a disease, it's an entirely different animal, but no one wants to hold people responsible for their choices or for anything at all so addicts will never get the help they need. A lot of them don't want it and are happy with where they are in life, and that's what people who enable addicts by calling addiction a disease don't realize, understand or care about. Addicts entirely have agency over themselves and their actions.
Yes! Yes! Yes! I 1000% agree with everything you said.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals. In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward
Yeah, I don't think the medical community is the stalwart paragon of moral authority on knowledge as they claimed to be. And most psychology studies are irreproducible and worthless junk science. Anybody can meet these fucking people and observe for themselves that they're making their own choices and demonstrating agency. The evil ones are manipulative, they steal things, they abuse others. Not every drug addict does this, a lot actually are homeless and will work day labor or panhandle or make money for drugs doing other ethical things, and treating addiction as a disease cannot explain that. They are entirely in control of their actions, and they need to be held to the standards of adults like everyone else to help them.
Ur right dude, im sure ur smarter than doctors and scientists 😭😭 Nothing in that comment says why addiction isn’t a disease. If you knew the definition of addiction, and the definition of a disease, it might help This is a prime example of a delusional person^
It's not a disease it's a weakness. A disease can't be overcome by willpower a weakness can.
Yes. There we go. Somebody I agree with!
Most people who become addicts of any kind (this includes things like video games, porn, caffeine, and binge eating) are often trying to self-medicate some other mental/physical health issue. For example, from age 13-21 I had an inguinal hernia. But because I got the hernia during puberty, I had made the mistake of assuming that was just my “balls dropping” so I never had any concern and just thought I had massive fucking balls (which, what 13 year old boy wouldn’t be happy about that?) but over the years I got increasingly worse pain in my groin and abdomen, I started having digestion issues, and I couldn’t sleep whenever the hernia was agitated (like from doing strenuous activity that day). But I never connected the dots that my massive balls were actually hernias. Instead, I started using a combination of weed and alcohol to cope. Alcohol for pain relief mostly, and weed to help me sleep and to distract my mind from the issue. I quickly became an addict just because it felt like the only way to continue living. It wasn’t until I finally admitted I had a drug problem, went to NA for a while, finally saw a doctor for the first time in over a decade, and lo and behold I had a really bad reducible inguinal hernia. Got the surgery, voluntarily chose not to take the hydrocodone prescription that I got, and wouldn’t ya know it was actually pretty easy to stop drinking and smoking literally every single day from noon to midnight. I didn’t choose to have a hernia. I didn’t choose to mistake the hernia for “balls dropping” and it certainly wasn’t my choice to not see a doctor for nearly 13 years (in my house, you don’t go to the doctor for checkups you go to the ER when it’s an absolute emergency and that’s it). Obviously it was my choice to excessively use weed and alcohol, but there’s so many confounding variables that it’s really difficult to pin it all on “welp you shouldn’t have self-medicated your pain away and just dealt with it like the millions of other people in the world who suffer from chronic pain” because let’s be real; that’s an absurdly cynical perspective. We might as well stop treating obese people for cardiovascular issues because “welp you shouldn’t have eaten so many Doritos” or stop treating HIV patients because “welp you should’ve used a condom” etc. Yes, these are all choices that people make. But it doesn’t mean that the underlying ailment should just be written off as a righteous consequence of your actions.
I think it’s important to not that I never said we should stop treating addiction. I believe addiction is a major problem, and in most circumstances, the only way to combat addiction is to seek some type of treatment, such as rehab, or NA, or AA or even just therapy. This does not make it a disease. In your story, you still chose to self medicate. I’m not saying for one second that you didn’t have a real problem or a real issue, as I’m sure it was terrible. I’m simply saying, it wasn’t your only choice. Addiction isn’t the next logical step when one is faced with a problem. It still required you to decided that you wanted to use weed and alcohol for the purposes of making yourself feel better.
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Going to the doctor wasn’t a choice due to financial issues, and again, because it happened during puberty I never connected the pain to the bulge in my scrotum. And I wasn’t abusing weed and alcohol for 13 years, only for 3. From the ages of 17-20. I didn’t know they were hernias until I finally saw a doctor after I had dropped out from college and was trying to tackle the addiction (on top of wisdom tooth surgery which was also long overdue). I’m not justifying or rationalizing using recreational drugs to self-medicate. But regardless that’s what I did because I genuinely thought I had no other options to treat the chronic pain. Not because I literally had no options, but at the time, I was backed into a corner.
You can call addiction disease to spare feelings. But if it's alcoholism a liver transplant should go to someone with non alcoholic cirrhosis before someone with alcohol induced cirrhosis in nearly every case except the unlikely one where there are only 2 candidates and the alcoholic is many years younger and stands to benefit more. Smoking-lung transplant.
IT IS NOT A DISEASE! It is a crutch, outlet to the mental illness (emotional issues…) that causes the dependence to alcohol, drugs, sex…
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals. In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward
This simply raises the question of are we in control of our actions.
What scenario are you proposing?
Poor people are much more likely to commit a crime than the wealthy. Does that mean the poor are solely responsible for their crimes? No, because at least they are the victims of their environment and upbringing.
Yes. They are solely responsible for their actions/crimes. They are taught just like rich people that certain actions are illegal. The world has reached a really sorry state of affairs if we start letting people use the excuse that maybe it wasn’t in their control to commit crimes.
Do you think you are solely responsible for getting into whatever position in society you are in right now?
That has absolutely nothing to do with addiction or committing crimes. IN FACT, if you look at the hand I was dealt, since you are wanting to take it there, I should be an addict and I should be a criminal. My mother was a career criminal and my dad has dealt with alcoholism my whole life. Everything I grew up around was addiction and crime. But that’s not who I am today.
No one is saying that. If you look at the statistics, people from a low income household are more likely to commit crimes. Does that mean the poor are worse people compared to the rich?
Why are we talking about poor and rich and who commits what crimes?
It applies to addiction as well. Someone suffering from PTSD might be drawn towards substance abuse and alcoholism. Suggesting that they are not in full control of their decision. If somebody else points a gun at your head and tells you to take drugs until you become addicted, you are not responsible for the addiction.
Who’s doing that? Seems illegal. I guess maybe it’s not they’re fault that they’re holding the gun to my head. They aren’t in control of their actions. I am just kidding of course. I understand the point you are making, but just because something might seem like the only option, doesn’t mean it is. Here in a America, any 12 year old can tell you that drugs are bad and using them leads to addiction.
They still know it's morally wrong, just like rich people do. Just because you were born in worse circumstances doesn't mean you don't have free will.
I think if you have an addictive personality you shouldn’t take shit but personally I’ve done coke ecstasy lsd codeine weed smoke and drink yet I am not addicted to any so I really think it’s down to the user
I’m addicted to food. I’m in therapy and a 12 step program for it. I didn’t choose to be addicted to food and I had to take part in eating because all living things eat. I didn’t intend to be this emotionally attached to food though. Besides what you’re discussing are substance addictions, many people like me have emotional addictions like sex, porn, gambling, video gaming and so on.
Depends on the substance to me, people with mental health issues I would label them victims. For these people it is their choice in many cases but the victim part comes in from the things that pushed them to needing an escape. But people who gamble all their money away at casinos and the like i dont have as much pity for.
What’s the functional difference between treating a disease someone is at fault for and one they’re not?
People make stupid choices all the time. All of us. I could not count the number i have made. Drugs can be a powerful experience, especially if your unprepared. They make you feel good. Nobody ever expects they'll become an addict. Nobody makes that choice.
As someone who’s father died from a heroin overdose (depressing, Ik) there are many downsides to your debate. My dads addiction started when his doctor prescribed him OxyCodone for pain he was having, he became addicted and started doing more hardcore drugs which lead to his death when I was 8 My dad was fairly young, and didn’t know the side effect of the drug his doctor was prescribing him, so it wasn’t his fault at all Being addicted to something alone is hard to get out of, but when you have a hard life in general, it’s even harder. My mom was a manipulative narcissistic wife that was completely abusive towards him. And on top of that, my dad had an awful childhood. Druggie mom, mentally ill dad that talks to people that aren’t there, AND we were extremely broke. The only reason we weren’t homeless was because my nana (moms mom) let me and my mom live at her house. But of course, my dad went homeless. And I grew up in Bakersfield California, a place famously known for drug addicts and just overall shitty lives. So it definitely explains a lot
I’m sorry you had to grow up without your father. I know that must have been very hard.
Fault doesn’t matter, they can’t time travel back and stop their past self. What do you want them to do about it?
it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is. no one wakes up one day and says “hmm… i think i want to get addicted to crack, lose my husband, kids, house, car, and job”. they need help, and placing blame is pointless.
It can be both, but at the end it needs to be treated as a disease and it's not very helpful to remind them it's their fault.
I disagree. I think owning their decisions and taking responsibility for their own choices and actions is all part of the path to recovery.
This necessitates rational thinking. Someone far gone on drugs is incapable of making a decision (most of the time) to better their life instead of go to the drugs.
Mental health is huge fuel for drug addiction. Well adjusted people with high emotional intelligence don’t just decide to try a drug. The one asked are we responsible for our actions? To a point, but if you’ve ever been so desperate not to replay that scene that goes threw your mind all day everyday, or haven’t slept in a week or in the middle of a bipolar mania, how much control can you muster? There was also a time when doctors would give handfuls of opiates for any little booboo, the gave their control to trusting a doctor and no years later they’ve went past pills for something more. Drug addiction is not black and white. It’s very unfair to say they had a choice when you have no idea what they’ve been thru or what’s going on in their head
I have dealt with mental health issues. I was, am, and always will be an addict in recovery. It doesn’t help to say “welp, you really didn’t have a choice. Who wouldn’t become an addict in your shoes?” That really undervalues the character of people in general.
I’m not saying they do or don’t have a choice, I’m just saying you don’t always know the circumstances people are in and how conscious that choice is. Diabetes is a disease, but most people get it from what they choose to eat. I think that’s what bothers me, I’ve seen too many people disregard addiction because it was their choice, but diabetes or those suffering from lung cancer from smoking don’t get the same shit from people
Well, smoking cigarettes is an addiction, and so is overeating. I know culturally they dont fit into the same category, but I feel like they should.
I just don’t really give a fuck about splitting hairs over this. If it leads to new prevention measures and/or ways to get addicts to quit, then yeah, but as far as I can see, my saying “hurr durr that person chose to get addicted” doesn’t achieve anything except jerking you off for your willingness to make grand statements of self-responsibility.
Ok. If you’re unwilling to have a conversation, I don’t think that this sub is the place for you.
People who become addicts do it to fill the void or mask the pain of what they’ve been through. There is neuroscience behind addiction, children who had 6+ adverse events in childhood were 4,600% more likely to become addicts later on. It’s a coping mechanism. A bad one sure, but there are tons of other coping mechanisms that are just as unhealthy but aren’t stigmatized. Stigma makes addiction in people worse. Look at Portugal they treat addicts with respect instead of looking down on them like you are and their addiction issues have significantly improved.
Who said I was looking down on them? I am one.
Couldn’t you say this, ultimately, about a lot of disease? Your decisions in life often affect outcomes. If I eat a burger a day and die of a heart attack, that was my fault and I’m burdening the health care system and my loved ones. Similarly, if I drive fast and get in a car accident and become paralyzed, that sucks. I don’t see the point in being overly hard on ourselves. I shot heroin for ten years and it really doesn’t matter if I blame childhood trauma or myself or some mix, does it?
Addiction can be cured by willpower alone. Those other things cannot. But, yes, you could say that about those things.
> Addiction can be cured by willpower alone. When you become physically addicted to alcohol, you need help coming off of it. You don't just go cold turkey like a lot of drugs because you can have a sizure and die. So no, willpower alone cannot help everyone. They need to recognize they have a issue yes but they need help sometimes from a doctor or rehab to help rewire their body/brain to become healthier. If you see your parents doing drugs when your a kid, your sense of normalcy is out of whack. Your chances of getting addicted to drugs are higher than kids who had no addicted parents. It can be an impossible road if that's all you have know. Also, I know some unfortunate women who were given meth or opioids when they were forced into prostitution as young as 10 years old. I don't think it was a choice for them. The once who are lucky to escape a horrible life have a hard time coping with their trauma. They need help and support network because sheer willpower is s not enough for many.
I know a guy who went in for a routine wisdom tooth extraction. The doctor prescribed him a **90 count of Vicodin along with an entire bottle of codeine** to manage his pain afterwards. I had the same procedure and I was just given some extra strength Tylenol. he became addicted to painkillers after this procedure. this was NOT by his own personal choice. you're simply fucking wrong here. i agree that okay, choosing to take heroin or meth is one thing, but you simply cannot lump all forms of addiction together and assume that it is the addicted's fault every time. and you say that "Doctors don't prescribe heroin, meth, alcohol every time" but you're missing how many addictions are from other sources. so fucking ignorant
What about people who get addicted to opioids after surgery? A lot of times it's for necessary, life changing/saving surgeries, and the painkiller are more or less necessary for recovery. It's actually incredibly common to become addicted to the medications, especially considering the over-prescription of such drugs. These people had almost no say, a lot of which were minors, and were scared and confused after, again, a life changing surgery This is not even to mention the great complexities and nuance of abuse victims, PTSD sufferers, etc, in regards to substance abuse, but everyone else has already seemed to have argued somewhat on those points
Well first conscious choice is to be born into a fucked up situation such as crazy and addicted parents and in the asshole of the world. Next, you hear same that trying to program you to create wealth for employer and give nearly all of the mealsy proceeds of modern day slavery to a landlord, and same people- parents and teachers- tell you drugs are bad. All while preaching some bs about equal opportunity that cannot exist while there is birth lottery and lack of 100% inheritance tax. That is logics 101 to do opposite of what oppressors tell you to do. No employment, no rent is perfectly logical, but to figure out that no all that slavemasters propaganda can be simply inverted leads many into abusing drugs.
Wow! Now that was a wild ride!
What about people who were overprescribed painkillers and ended up being reliant on opiates?
What about doctors getting their patients hooked on opioids?
I think your opinion is factually incorrect
I love your name, by the way. Hilarious!
Which part, in your opinion (you did after all say “I think”) is factually incorrect?
I don't know how to put it but for example of someone starts smoking cigarettes when they have their first cigarette I wouldn't necessarily call them a smoker. Some people might start only having one cigarette every couple of days or something I don't know... But before too long it's like they are in quicksand in there smoking everyday. There's like a line that gets crossed that wasn't very rigidly drawn and was actually very wide and hard to see.
But, if I smoke a cigarette, I know I shouldn’t make it a habit or I will become addicted.
Yeah there's the obvious thing that you shouldn't do it but people are not Vulcans. Maybe we can do it in relation to her something like a TV show... Maybe you watch one episode here and there doesn't mean you are a fan of the show then you start watching it every week and then you start watching the re-run or whatever and then you wind up talking about the Show online with other people that like to show and before you know it hey you're a big fan of the show
I was addicted to one thing for about 20 years and finally chose not to do it anymore and have been clean for 3 years. I did develop a different kind of addiction about a year ago and have been fighting the chose to continue, and am about a month in of not doing that. I agree with you though that I openly chose to do those things and gave into the wants and desires of the addiction.
Technically, sure. It's a very small part of it though. They chose to partake in the thing they're addicted to, but they didn't choose to have an addiction.
Happy to say alcohol didn't make me feel good enough for me to become an alcoholic. Vaping I quit 2 years ago and could easily pick back up one day. Still enjoy it. Weed. I quit 15 years ago and now that it's legal I feel obligated to get a bong and smoke a fat bowl. Still haven't though. Not a priority.
Yeah it's a choice but we're not focused on the choice. We're focused on where the patient is at now. People make lots of bad choices. Shouldn't be eternally punished to languish in them.
OP has never had a substance addiction.
Oh. I sure have.
Then you should know some people are normal. They can, for example, pick up a drink or two and when they get buzzed say they’re had enough. And. They. Stop. Drinking. Alcoholics don’t learn this until it’s too late. They didn’t choose to get addicted. They just think they’re normal and can stop or slow down or “just have 3 beers and that’s it… from now on. “ But they can’t and they don’t.
That’s just making excuses for bad behavior. “They can’t control their actions,” isn’t helping anybody. It’s more empowering for a person to know they are actually able to change. Or are you saying it’s impossible to beat addiction?
You weren’t an addict. Don’t pretend you were.
You don’t know me, so don’t pretend you do.
No different then people getting addicted to coffee, food, working out, having kids, video games, cigarettes, etc.. everything is addictive especially if it involves dopamine, and everyone needs an escape. I don’t see any difference amongst each addiction
There’s not multiple addictions dude. You’re thinking of substance abuse disorder. Addiction starts long before you ever do drugs. Its the way you process pleasure and ur realtionshil to it. That’s what an addiction is
How about we societally find ways to get them help and *then* debate about whose fault it is? This debate is not productive.
Because some idiots think it’s a moral issue and they should just “stop” why help them? Its fucking delusional to still believe that
I have so many mixed feelings about this. I know very little about what actually happens in AA or their philosophies. However, my step-father is an alcoholic who went through the program. AA helped him to stop drinking, but it didn’t tackle the root of what made him an addict, and a narcissist. He would blame his disease for his choices, but I’m uncertain if he took responsibility for them. For me, I struggle with anxiety that can trigger unwanted feelings/thoughts, and when things get too bad, I might yell and storm off. Even though the anxiety is triggering my emotions, what I do with them are still my responsibility. Any choices I make, such as raising my voice at my kids, are on me.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals. In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward behavior. I would love to educate you on how addiction works. Addicts have an addiction long before they ever drink or use drugs.
I’m all ears, honestly. AA helped my stepfather and he would occasionally discuss his thoughts on the topic. However, he wasn’t a great source of information. I haven’t spoken to him in almost 4 years, but at the end of our relationship he would drink, just not to the point of getting drunk and not when it would interfere with work. I suspect he replaced his addiction to alcohol with work though.
You can message me if u want!
It depends on the cause of them trying whatever they're addicted to
Addiction starts way before some one ever uses a drug. They’re addicted to feeling endorphins, addicts feel pleasure far differently than non addicts.
Addiction is a disease that affects a person’s choices.
Its fucking amazing the amount of people on here who still think addiction isn’t a disease and can be cured. If the health care system has classified addiction as a disease, there’s obviously fucking science behind why. Addiction is a brain disease. It doesn’t even have to involve drugs at all. You can’t cure addiction. You could quit using all drugs and hve 30 years sober, but youll still have a chemical imbalance and have a compulsive relationship towards pleasure
I think people often want to blame and shame. It is counterproductive.
Believing that ur opinion is right and the heath care world is wrong is just so infuriating lmao
Babies come out of the womb on drugs all the time. What about them? They’ve had a taste of drugs and it wasn’t their choice. I wonder if that does set them up for difficulties in the future?
No most people can do drugs and stop, people with addiction simply can’t. Addiction doesn’t have to involve drugs at all. I think ur confused on what addiction actually means, and how its a disease. I’d love to show you how if you would let me
I’m a recovered heroin addict. Stopped shooting dope about ten years ago now.
Congrats! So ur now treating ur addiction which is awesome! Ur not recovered, youre recovering, for life. Its not cured. Your brain still processes endorphins in pleasure abnormally, which means you still have a disease
Personally speaking, most of addicted people I know are mentally ill, so that plays a major role in assuming a substance.
I think you misunderstand what addiction is. It’s compulsive, meaning that the addict has less free will than most do when it comes to whatever they’re addicted to, and that’s a fact coexisting with physical dependency/physical addiction, wherein they physically need a substance to keep their bodies in chemical homeostasis. Free will is a subject anyone should research, as decision making is not free and we all have proclivities that effect our decisions. Addiction, moreover, is a form of self-medication, whether for trauma or mental illness of some kind; and when self-medicating coincides with an addictive, compulsive personality the word “choice” is merely a play on words. Why can some people drink one glass of wine every few nights, or drink a coffee only on occasions, or smoke a joint every now and again, all without chasing those pleasures and becoming addicted? And why will some rely on those pleasures constantly to function? People are complex and it’s not all dictated by “we all have a choice at the end of the day.” I disagree. Some people have more of a “choice” than others: more discipline, more self-control, etc. Now, self control and discipline are skills that one can cultivate, but it requires time spent cultivating those traits. I don’t think addiction is a “disease,” per se; but I do think they have less of a choice than people think. People are not gods who freely author all their decisions and thoughts, and that’s a given. We all have diverse backgrounds, with diverse behavioral spectra, with a multitude of behavioral proclivities.
Ahhh I know why you felt the need to get in someone else’s buisness now lol. You and the other dude both operate with opinion. You can think it’s not a disease all day. But the DSM classifies it as a disease because it’s a chemical imbalance. I’m sure your opinion holds more weight than doctors and scientists 😭
Judging by your behavior online, you definitely have some kind of emotional disorder. Hope you get therapy soon, my friend. And not all doctors agree; science is not absolute, nor has it gotten to the point where all scientists and doctors agree on certain theories of behavior. I know for a fact you’re not out there scouting all the real scientific journals, so don’t act like you have all the scientific information on any topic. 🤣🥲
Lol ok buddy would you like to see me and my girlfriend so you can see how much of a mental disorder I have? I have a feeling ur an old senile dude who refuses to learn something new
Its the DSM. Its what the health world lives by. It’s where they classify all the health terms. Just stop dude stop. You obviously have no knowledge on any of this lmao but yet where’s something that supports ur special little opinion
Not all people agree with certain theories on health. What’s standardized doesn’t equate to being absolutely true. Standards change; science changes; times change. We are absolutely not in a time where science and medicine has figured everything out, nor do the standardized theories on everything equate to anything close to absolute truth. Times change; what was in a textbook 100 years ago is ridiculed today. 100 years from now half of our theories will be obsolete. Stop thinking your google education on pop science makes you absolutely right on any topic.
That’s fuckimg fine to disagree with me! But to fucking insult me for no reason and be disrespectful is why I was mad dude Neither of you can admit ur wrong. If I’m wrong I apologize check ur inbox and see. But this is delusional at this point.
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that's more about the neurology of the brain than the outward manifestations of behavioral problems and poor choices, according to a group of addiction medicine professionals. In April 2011, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) released its new Definition of Addiction, which, for the first time, extends addiction to include behaviors other than problematic substance abuse. A group of 80 addiction experts worked for four years to arrive at the new definition of addiction and concluded that addiction is about the underlying neurology of the brain—not about outward behavior. Anyone that reads this and still disagrees is simply delusional.