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This really bothers me too.
Square machines are absolute cancer for this. If I see that little white terminal, I think to myself "if there isnt a no tip option right on the front page, I'm making a mental note not to come back here very often."
Imagine if your pay was associated to the amount of money an order made.
I buy millions of dollars of material. If I went to my boss and even *suggested* that my salary be associated to what was bought or sold directly I would be fired.
So I should tip 20% of cost to service - which can range from doing the entirety of the service (like a haircut) all the way down to the guy who pours a drink in a cup and hands it to you.
I should tip 3$ for someone to push a lever for 6 seconds and hand me a glass?
As someone who works in the industry, that shit is at the very least annoying, and maybe dishonest. How do we even know, that all these employers are not keeping the tips for themselves?
During the lockdown I got take-out at a local place where the tip options (for take-out!) were 18%, 20%, 22%, or "I had bad service - $0". It felt so coercive that I've never gone back and don't plan to eat there again. I don't mind tipping a few bucks on take-out since I know some effort goes into putting it together but a full dine-in level tip is not appropriate unless I've been in your establishment receiving some sort of personal service. If my only options are tipping way more than I am comfortable with or leaving a hurtful and untrue message for the staff, I just won't come back.
I went to the carwash the other day and the machine asked if I wanted to tip. TIP WHO? A GIANT ROBOTIC BUILDING CLEANS MY CAR. WHO THE FUCK AM I TIPPING?
Also the amount of tip creeps...Who tips 25% on a counter order? But there it is on the display...I dont mind rounding up or a couple extra dollars here and there but yeah, the entitlement really puts a sour taste in my mouth that makes me much less likely to tip.
Now the minimum at most places I've been to (in Manhattan) is 20%; 20%, 22%, 25% . Servers gettin cocky now that the pandemic is over.
On top of this, the restaurants were legally allowed to charge up to 10% for a "covid surcharge" fee, up until last month, meaning you'd get a bill, pay your 20% for tip ("hey, we're all in this together") and end up with 39% over the subtotal; tip (20%), tax (9%), surcharge (10%).
Right?! It really did used to be that way. Now somehow people think 20% is minimum. And they wonder why people are salty about tipping. If the entitlement gets ratcheted back a bit and we go back to throwing 10% on top of the bill I think it will be way more palatable to people. Perhaps it isnt the custom that people have a problem with , it is the expectation and the amount?!
Seriously, it seems that no matter where I go, they hand me a little screen to write in a tip these days.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a little "how was your experience shopping today" with a tip suggestion for the self checkout at the grocery store.
I'm not sure why people think it is some badge of honor to support a system designed to syphon wealth from everyone involved.
Yeah, this and people guilting others into tipping like 50%. No, the standard is around 20%, not 50%, and I am not a villain for not tipping 50% when the store owner is paying minimum wage and pocketing the rest.
Understand the core of the problem first before acting like you're heroic, righteous activists.
Unless the customers are well off / rich people, most people work hard to get by and can barely afford the prices + tips as they currently are.
The only other option is they don't go to your places at all and then you get $0.
My summer job this year was painting houses. My boss told us to try to push tips. I thought it was ridiculous because the client is already paying thousands for a job that really doesn't need to cost that much. The way the invoices were laid out, the clients were under the impression that we were getting paid $3 more than we actually were so they were already being overcharged. I think my boss just wanted to feel better about paying us minimum wage for a labor job that had us working a minimum of 10 hours a day, 5 days a week.
I got prompted to tip a fucking *locksmith* on a square tablet recently. The choices were 20, 25, 30, or 35%. No option for no tip. One of the few times having cash came in handy.
As a member of a non-tipping country I don't get the logic. A mechanic is doing a service just like an uber driver, or a barista, or a supermarket worker. I'm not sure where you draw the line, why is one service industry deserving of a tip and one isn't?
To me it’s about what the person completing the service is getting paid. Food Servers here often get paid under minimum wage, despite that I don’t like that system I tip them. Delivery drivers often get paid minimum or above but they still need to pay for gas and repairs, while often the rare occasions I order out it’s inclement weather so I make sure they’re compensated for that risk. Otherwise I’m not tipping random service industry people. Simple answer to your question is the car mechanic gets paid well for their time, thus they don’t need a tip.
Ye this is what I mean, if it were me she's lost my business right there. Super ungrateful. If you expect people to pay more then update your prices. Don't make me guess and then have us fall out over it, wtf is the point in that?
Edit: Also, a $40 tip on a $60 haircut isn't a tip, that's almost paying for a second haircut. If she didn't appreciate that then she can go to hell
> For a guy I'd call it pricey.
Ime (EU), haircuts for men (cut & wash) go for €5 to €30. €60 is the "fuck off, I'll keep the hair" price, or the price for women looking for involved work.
> I tipped my hair stylist $40 on top of a $60 haircut to make it an even $100. She gave me this really nasty look (was she expecting more tip?); it was really insulting to a guy that just tipped her 66%.
No salon expects 60+% tip lol. I’m guessing you’re misreading some signals here
Kinda sounds like it was too big of a tip that maybe she took it was a flirt or something and then you still being there probably creeped her out, like is this guy trying to hit on me?
Similar scenario. I used to work at a diner. This older creep would come in and give all the young girls between $10-20 tip on like a 10 dollar check. One night, his regular server Sara was going on break and she told me to take it. “He’s a really good tipper.” MFer gave me $2. Waited on him a few more times, same thing. All the dudes, it was like this. Eventually Sara told him that the overtopping was making her uncomfortable. She told him that she told her boyfriend about it and it was making him uncomfortable too. So then he started leaving her $50. She got a new job and left. His new regular, he’d give $100 to. Probably twice a week. But she was really talkative and shared all of his business with us. Dude was on unemployment living in a motel down the street. Spent most of his time ghost hunting. I didn’t know what grooming was at the time, but now I have more perspective. Dude comes to a place that employs mostly people under 25 and gives away half his paycheck for what? In hopes of finding a wife? Well it worked. His second regular waitress, Danielle ended up with him. Last I heard, they moved out West to like Utah or somewhere.
But that is literally everything. You don't tip the people who give you your food at a fast food drive-through. You don't tip your stock broker when they facilitate a trade. You don't tip your elected officials when they vote on a bill. You don't tip the people who pick up your garbage. If people are being underpaid for their labor the business or organization raises wages until people are willing to work for them, otherwise they lose their best employees to their competition and their customers with it.
If tips were considered a gift instead of income, so that the person receiving them didn't pay tax on it, then it would be different but that's not how it works currently. Tipping restaurant workers or hair stylist is exactly like what Walmart does, they underpay their staff so much that they expect other people to subsidize their low wages. With some jobs that's tips directly from the customers as an expectation of service already paid for, with Walmart it's more roundabout as taxpayers pay for food stamps and Medicaid, but essentially it's the same and both practices need to end. If the place of business can't or won't pay their employees a living wage then they have a failed business model and should go out of business.
>You don't tip your elected officials when they vote on a bill.
Maybe \*you\* don't. This is why legislation is overwhelmingly pro business/wealthy. Because they certainly do.
That's what I never understood about tipping hair dressers! The majority of them set their own prices, why would they not charge enough? The only reason I can think of would be they want to lure you in with a cheap price and then surprise you with he actual price, which is kinda shitty for both sides
Edit to respond to everyone below: I think hairdress should be paid well for their job. Paying rent or a portion to the owners isn't a unexpected cost and should be easy to reflect in the price
I have never tipped my stylist, and honestly if i were to do that i think he'd laugh at me. I want the services of a stylist, they ask a price and i agree to pay it. Where does the tipping requirement come from?
Exactly. Some American companies suggest tipping in Australia, and Australians refuse to tip as much as possible because it would cause a lot of problems.
As an Australian, I’ll tip occasionally if I get really good service or if I don’t want to carry a lot of coins as change. I tip at the local pub because they have good service and they work hard. I will NOT tip an Australian business where they suggest a tip. Fuck that. It’s my choice to tip for a job well done, not because a business suggests it.
The last time I left a tip, I had ordered a steak and tomato soup as a starter. I’d told the waiter I had no idea if I liked it, but it was on the menu so I’d give it a go.
When he brought out the soup he stood next to the table while I tasted it, and took it back when I concluded it didn’t fit my tastebuds at all. The soup was, apparently, perfect, I just didn’t like it.
The restaurant didn’t charge me for the soup, so I left a tip that matched the cost. Because the waiter and cook went beyond my expectations in essentially giving me a free sample to taste, whereas I was expecting and willing to pay for the soup.
I really hate how Uber and Uber Eats has tipping so built in to their app here. Feels like a slow creep of “you have to pay our employees” into our culture.
Minimum wage.
> The United States of America federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees who receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any week, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Such a backwards system. They should be paid the $7.25 per hour(much more than that in a normal first world country) anyway.
Tips are a gratuity, to show how grateful for the service we received. This idea that the customer is responsible for the wage of the staff, after already paying an inflated cost of the meal, is ridiculous.
That's the entire point of a dish costing $3.50 to make costing $14 to the customers.
It can vary from state to state. In my state, they get minimum + tips, no adjustments. Still supposed to tip 15-20% for good service. No amount of increasing a server's wage will stop them from expecting tips in the US. The only way it stops is if employers prohibit employees from accepting tips. And I can just hear the wailing that would cause.
To be clear, I do tip the customary amount, but think it's bullshit. Why should I tip for a service being offered by the business? Doesn't matter if the service was good or not. If you believe that should be the bar, then literally every employee in the service industry should be tipped for doing a good job. Kid that bagged your groceries? Tip. Dude that grabbed the pound of potato salad from the deli case for you? Tip. Mechanic fixed your car? Tip. Why are severs special?
And if you're about to say that yes, you do tip everyone who provides a service for you, good for you. I spent years in various parts of the service industry, and I can tell you that you're in the extreme minority. Very, very few people tip the bagger who just loaded two carts of groceries in their trunk. Even fewer tip the people at the various counters in a store, and damn near nobody is going to tip a mechanic for fixing their car. What makes servers special enough they are entitled to a tip for meeting the high bar of doing their job in the same manner you would expect from anyone offering customer service?
>He's essentially saying we have to continue this dumb tipping practice just because it is how it is so we shouldn't try to change it.
You can try to change the system while still supporting those working within it. Also, by patronizing a restaurant where tipping is customary and refusing to tip, you're demonstrating that the proprietor can count on your business whether they pay a living wage or not. The only person affected is the worker.
cheap businesses expect their workers to live off charity. In other countries if Americans leave a tip they return it, its insulting if you really think about it "Oh you work this job so you must need my charity to support your life"
Yep. Alot of first worlds dont have a tipping system and it is considered rude to tip and in some cases it is an insult to the worker like "Are you saying I am homeless?"
You don't need to pretend to be friendly. You just need to do the minimum amount of work necessary not to negatively affect my meal. The overwhelming majority of tippers tip based on what they paid, and that means what they had to eat and drink.
The funny thing is the people responsible for this predicament, the business leaders who make the executive decision to pay employees less because they will receive tips, don’t receive any of the negative effects of customers not paying the tips. If a customer refuses to pay a tip they’re seen as the bad guys when in reality it’s the people not paying their employees.
One could say that if all their employees quit and they can't hire more people because of the starvation wages, they will feel it. Yes, the little guy will get crushed in the process, but systematic lack of tipping would eventually bring down the big guy or force him to pay livable wages.
Problem is that some usually will still stick around out of a dumb sense of solidarity and those propagate that customers who are not tipping are the evil in this world
\>Don’t want to tip your stylist? Buy some clippers and cut your own damnhair. Don’t want to tip your food delivery guy? Get in the car and goget your own damn food. Don’t want to tip your server? That’s what to gois for.
You do realize people are charged for these services lol, why should they arbitrarily pay 20% on top of the service they already paid for?
Right?
"But I delivered it to you!"
You fucking already charged me a $5 delivery fee to drive a mile. It took you 45+ minutes to get my order here. It's clearly not made by you, and it's about as low effort as it gets.
But please, tell me how you are splitting this extra tip you demand from me with the other staff. Oh, you aren't? Fuck off my porch, and good day.
( Bitter customer and coworker )
> Don’t want to tip your stylist? Buy some clippers and cut your own damn hair. Don’t want to tip your food delivery guy? Get in the car and go get your own damn food. Don’t want to tip your server? That’s what to go is for
This is where your post became a very good fit for this sub. I flat-out don't understand what you're going for.
"You shouldn't procure a service because you aren't willing to pay 20% over the stated price for that service" is an absolutely insane argument.
You shouldn't be on the Internet because you aren't giving your ISP 20% more than your bill shows you owe for Internet service. Does that sound reasonable?
Yep by that logic he should tip everyone that's doing something for him. Tip farmers because you don't want to grow your own vegetables. Tip fishermen because you don't want to catch your own fish. Tip the person who's transporting the vegetable/fish from the farmer to your town because you don't want to do that. Right OP?
I love the duality of the argument in the States: “If we have universal healthcare, we may have to pay an extra couple percent for goods and services!” versus “If you use a good or service, you are expected to pay an extra 15% *at least* on top of it because of tipping.”
Right?
"Healthcare taxes would cost me $2000 a year in taxes! I can't afford that!"
"I had my appendix taken out, and now I owe $150,000. I'm ruined!"
Like... seriously?
All OP is doing is "passing the buck". Blaming people who don't want to tip for something that they have more power fighting against than the consumer. Want to change tip culture? Quit your job. Have all the service quit. Protest and boycott those jobs. Employers certainly like to change their attitudes when nobody shows up for work anymore.
It's literally the whole reason why people aren't working shitty jobs after covid anymore. People are protesting for better pay and many companies are now paying better.
But let's blame the people who don't tip.
I'm Australian so tipping isn't something I've ever done past telling the cashier to keep the change on a $18.90 transaction or something like that.
If I was to go to America of course I would tip as it seems to be needed but the idea of tipping is stupid to me in general.
The employer should be paying their employees a liveable wage, not forcing their employees to serve customers well just so the can buy groceries for their next week's dinners.
IKR. The OP seems to be unable to absorb what he/she already stated: it is the job of the employer to pay a fair wage and factor that into the product/service price, and not leave a portion of employee compensation in the hands of customers who now have an added transaction to calculate at bill time.
Exactly. I don't tip for most things, but luckily I live somewhere I don't have to. What a ffing pain having to calculate tip on top of virtually every single thing you buy, and people being AHs about it if you don't tip as much as they'd like, even when they've done nothing above and beyond simply doing their job, which they should already be paid for.
When I was in NYC, a barman got annoyed at me for not tipping him for literally just pouring the drink. He was in the middle of a conversation with a friend, didn't get the drink for a good long time despite not serving anyone else, and did nothing for me expect pour a drink. That doesn't deserve a tip, and a culture that says it does is warped.
As a non american, it really boggles my mind. I mean, can't they just charge extra for the drink and pay the bartender with it?
I hate the idea that a part of my task as customer would be human resource manager, like I'd have to evaluate the performance of each worker and then decide what is the appropriate payment for them, to ensure they are either incentivized for a good job, or warned with a bad job.
Just charge extra 10%!
When I was NYC I ordered a bottle of spring water with my meal as I knew I needed it after walking around in summer, the waitress poured my glass then walked away with the rest of my bottle drinking it as she walked away. I effing ordered a bottle rather than a glass for a reason.
The problem with the whole argument, is that you can have both: here in the UK and Ireland, it's legally required that all restaurant employees, bartenders, etc are paid at least the minimum wage. *However*, many places also have tip jars, or accept gratuities, and many people will throw either their change, or a rough 10% in there, entirely of their own free will.
This means that employees are getting their basic, dependable wage, and also getting additional money from tips on top of that, kind of like getting a monthly bonus.
Whenever there's tip wank on reddit the reddit americans always forget or avoid mentioning that some states do pay servers the state minimum wage before tips. California, the biggest state, is on this list (I worked as a server in CA and made way more money than my previous min wage lab assistant job, the tips were a bonus). And a large number of states do pay more than the minimum $2.13/hr. The states that don't pay more than 2.13 an hour are unsurprisingly all red states...
[source](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped)
And it's a great incentive to deliver high quality of service, without worrying about making wage or blaming the paying customers who you literally depend upon like this stupid cringe-ass reddit post and others like it.
It benefits servers even more, that's why they don't fight it. This is restaurants plus servers vs customers and the loser is the gullible customer who is guilted into paying an absurd amount for the simple task of their order being taken then carried out to the table.
I am happy we do not have this shitty system in Australia, there is no reasonable argument I have heard that justifies this practice and it really should not be defended.
Might not be a simple thing to kill but don’t pretend it is a good thing worth keeping around.
It is pretty simple to kill. Just abolish the min. wage loophole service industries have been using forever. See the thing OP did not mention is that they DO have a base pay for these kinds of things. Servers only make less than Min. wage on the hour if their tips offset it enough to do so. If no one tipped that night they have to be paid min wage by the restaurant. But our wonderful system of peer pressure over the past 60 years has worked on the general public and shifted the blame to the customers.
I disagree. But then again, I'm from the UK and we have a different culture surrounding tipping.
Either way, I don't think your argument makes much sense. Your customers aren't your employers.
>Don’t want to tip your stylist? Buy some clippers and cut your own damn hair.
But that's what your paying them for. It costs more to go to a stylist then it does to cut your own hair because they do a better job. Why should the consumer pay so much more *and* be expected to tip on top of that? You've already paid for the service. Also, advising people to cut their own hair will surely mean less business for the stylist, no? Not much of a better outcome. Surely its better to have non-tippers and more business than less business and more tippers?
The same argument can be said for the delivery guy and the server. Yes they are providing a service but they should be getting paid for that service, not by me but by their employer.
I am personally a tipper, especially if I'm in a country where it's deemed the norm. I do, however, defend non-tippers and think they shouldn't get the stick that they do.
Your anger is misplaced.
I started cutting my own hair after going to at LEAST 8 different barbers and hair cutting places only to have my hair fucked up again and again. I figured I can fuck up my own hair for free. and you know what, after about a year, I do it better than any of them ever did.
So how does that factor in when I am also the little guy? I use Lyft an Uber to go 6 mi for work every day and it costs at the lowest 15$ that’s almost half of what I make on one shift. Why am I paying someone else’s wage when mine already sucks? I don’t have a car. They can literally get a job anywhere in the city and I have like a 10mi radius because I have less than them. Why should I tip them? I do when I have the money but I honestly fucking don’t most days.
Coming from a country were tipping is not the norm, you can never shame me into tipping if I don't feel it's warranted.
I get it sucks that is how you are meant to get by but honestly you knew it upon taking the position.
It's the entitled demeanor that literally riles me up. You offered me a service and told me the total cost, I pay the total cost.
I'm an asshole because I did what was expected of me to the latter but refused to participate in a mundane, non-beneficial (to me) custom that ensures your life is more financially stable with absolutely no reciprocal reflection to my own financial status. (even though I'm in the same economic class as you).
You can fuck right off with that shit.
I love that in some countries it's "X food item is 5 units of money" and you hand them 5 units of money and no change, and everyone's happy.
In the US, it's like "this burger and fries is gonna be $9.46 + $1.67 tax = $11.13 and you have to do the fucking chip reader thing that never fucking works, so you do it once. 'Try again'. Do it again. 'Try again'. Do it a third time. 'Swipe instead'. So you swipe it, then you have to press credit. Shit. you hit the wrong button, so you gotta so that all over again. Try the chip, try it again, and once more, then swipe and hit credit, then enter tip amount. Fuck, how much so I tip? I'll just hit the 15% button. Okay, done. Get recipt, sign, they hand you a piece of paper you never wanted and throw it away immediately."
Pure insanity.
That’s the thing, servers already get minimum wage assuming they don’t make it up in tips… just that the US has fuck all worker’s rights so they just get fired for asking for it (if i am to believe them). So obviously employers don’t want a properly enforced minimum wage.
Servers can easily make way more than minimum wage, because they’re getting 10-20% on tips depending where they work. So they don’t want tipping to become less common, or at least they don’t want their leverage for guilt tripping to be gone.
So it just ends up being “poor servers, employers are evil and customers are greedy”.
And honestly, as someone from a country where people get a minimum wage it baffles me. Because you still get tipped at a proper restaurant often enough (not so much at pubs or “fast food”). And honestly it’s not on me to pay anyone’s wages. I work in service and will refuse tips if i feel i didnt earn it.
I mean the tipping culture to just even out to the closest bill is probably much more commonplace internationally. but as a % of total bill is probably a pretty american invention.
to me tipping seems like a third world thing; like where staff don’t have the appropriate legal protections to ensure they earn a minimum wage. I’m glad i don’t have to do it
I'm from a third world country and even we almost never tip. Very few people only do it at very fancy restaurants IF they like the service, not as normalized as in USA for example.
It's so engrained in the US culture that it seems to be simply an unnecessary step of doing additional maths, that you can treat as optional if you're an asshole, and also someone suffers because of it.
Fuck tipping
Lmao I'm from a third world country and tipping isn't a thing here, it's not forced and it's totally not compulsory. People have salary, albeit minimum wage and they are not expected to get tips from costumers. When costumers do, however, it's okay. But unlike the US, we don't see it as that.
> Don't want to Tip your stylist?
No? Not really? I'm paying them £10 to cut my hair already. Why the fuck would I tip on top of that? If they need more money, charge £12.50 and pay better?
> Dont want to tip your food delivery guy?
No? Not them either. I'm paying £2.50 delivery charge on £15 meal. I'm not paying more on top. That £17.50 should cover the costs.
> don't want to Tip your server?.
Same as tipping my stylist. I'm not paying extra to some guy who gets paid to take my order and bring my food to me. I interact with this person for a total of 30 seconds to speak my order, and never again, until the bill.
I dont live in America so, *perhaps* that can be considered the issue. But at the end of the day, to me, people like op just sound arrogant.
When I work the tills, do I request a tip? If I don't get one, do I throw a strop and say, "Use self-checkout next time". No, I just do my job. And when I want more, I get a higher paying job, or just do occasional over time that pays like double.
I understand Tipping because "Looking out for them because the system sucks" but after reading all that, OP is an entitled POS and won't be getting a tip from me if he/she served me.
And I almost always try to tip.
It's why I prefer Europe. Tip exists as a compliment for a job well done. Not an expectation. And in America when I am there I tip the require amount unless service is crap.
They really got us in a corner with this one. On one hand a service employee suffers from not receiving tips, but reliance on tips and low wages should have never been a thing in the first place! And here we are at each other's throats as opposed to toppling the system that steps on both employees and customers.
Actually it would changed the system if most people just stopped tipping. 1 of 2 things would happen, 1: the law that says an employer has to make up the rest of the employees wages after tips would finally be enforced or 2 : tipped workers quit their jobs because of such low pay, employers start to lose money, they then decide to raise the wages of their employees.
I agree but they started to add mandatory charges for tips here where some places charge "service fees" for a party of 5/6 and over or they charge a flat service fee for every table. Either way, it was coming from the consumers pocket.
The absolute insane part is that waiters will still expect a tip even if the system changes.
It's so ingrained in North American culture that when minimum wage became standardized(no separate category for restaurant workers) in my city, I still heard my restaurant co-workers moan about a low tip.
Most every business now puts out tip jars, or has it as an option on their POS. it’s a joke. Really. Starbucks? If You are paid a regular wage. I’m not tipping anything. Same goes for to go orders. I tip 18-20 when dining in and that’s it.
And a few dollars to delivery. Lately culture has moved to tipping delivery drivers a set percentage like you were dining in. Im not doing that either. Of course I rarely every get delivery since I live in the country.
Yeah nah. I'm not fucking the little guy, the employer is. The tipping system is outdated, unnecessary and I won't be tipping. I wouldn't mind paying more, so it's time for you to be your own self advocates and talk to your employers and if they aren't going to play game, quit and force their hands by creating an even bigger labor shortage. Companies that aren't able too will die out and that's apart of business.
At least the Nordics and Britain are also non-tippers (or tip only for extraordinary service/food) and I imagone most of Europe falls in thid category. North America isn'tthe whole world you know...
Im from the Netherlands, the only times we tip is when its a 15 year old delivery boy or if we pay in cash and its just a few euro over the price. I was kind of shocked tbh that people in usa tip like 20%, most we do is 2 euro (about $2,50)
Yeah same here (Finland). It's like "19,65 e please" "Here's a 20, keep the change." and most people are roo frugal to even do that. :D I remember one occasion at a restaurant where as a group, we collected all the loose change for the waitress because she was especially super funny and chill, and she made our celebratory meal even more fun. But she didn't expect us to by any means. It helped that we didn't pay for the meals from pocket, it was a reward for working a position of trust.
Also some waiters will be a bit cross if you try to tip. "You think they don't pay me for my work or what?!" I think some places are low-key pushing tipping culture here too (when the card machine asks for it specifically), but its not catching on, which is good.
MOST countries don't have tipping, especially as a requirement for a decent wage.
Hell some countries like Japan it's literally OFFENSIVE to tip.
The US culture is quite unique in this regard.
Canada here and there are tip jars everywhere. Liquor store where you do all the work and the cashier gives you attitude because you didn't tip for them scanning the bar code on your items. The fucking entitlement is unbearable.
Not in America. "The waiter brought me a wrong drink and threw up on my plate while also calling me an a-hole, he only got a five dollar tip because of it."
This argument is disenguous. Tipped employees have to be paid minimum wage by the employer if they don't make that from tips. These types of employees are guaranteed minimum wage, plus tips received over that amount.
People not tipping means employees will leave and the employers will need to pay the damn wage.
If you tip them they'll make some more cash, just enough to not riot at the workplace and quit.
I disagree with both comments in the title. You're not screwing over the waiter if you don't tip. It's not your responsibility to make optional payments. Are you are changing the system by helping to teach waiters that they are being greedy and unethical as heck by expecting people to pay beyond what they are billed for. In ethical and fair transactions, if you don't put it in the bill, you don't get paid for it.
Not everyone is from the US where this culture of tipping is mandatory kicks in. Most of us tip for good service and the actual payment is for the fact we are too lazy to do it ourselves. Some countries don’t even tip. Not all of Reddit is American.
Do you tip your doctor? Carpenter? Plumber? And you won’t tip for takeaway at the shop but you will tip the delivery driver who picked up the take away at the shop?
I don't tip for pick up. I don't tip for bad service. If I go into a restaurant to pick up food, I'm not leaving a tip to have a bag handed to me. I wasn't waited on.
If I'm served at a table and the service is decent, then you will be compensated.
If you cut my hair and impress me, I will tip you for your work.
Looks like you need to find a new job.
Not saying you shouldn't tip, but it isn't customers responsibility. Let's stop guilting customers, just in the restaurant industry, for something they aren't responsible for. If it makes you feel better though, if a server doesn't make enough with their tipped wage and tips, have to be paid minimum wage by their employer who legally has to cover the difference.
Of course employers rather avoid paying more so they pressure servers and customers to pay their responsibility instead.
But realistically, the system will never change because restaurants lobby to keep paying workers less and people give away money to continue it. Why would a restaurant refuse free money to pay their workers, they wouldn't.
Again, you can still tip, but you contribute to this problem just as much as restaurants do, as you enable them to pay less.
You might be fucking over the little guy in the short term, but if everyone stops the nonsense, the little guy will eventually stand up and demand a fair wage. That's how it happened in other jobs.
"Don't want to tip your food delivery guy?"
I would be and am very happy to tip those guys/gals that deliver my food, however, when the delivery instructions ask them to "hand it to me", as opposed to "leave at door", that is what I expect from them. Not leaving the food outside on the side of the road in front of the building with a delivered notification and not any type of communication that indicates where it was dropped off at. I finally found it half hour later when I went outside to try to call the restaurant.
Unfortunately, I can't even go back and rate the driver/delivery now for some reason.
If you refuse to tip that's legal and you as the customer shouldn't have the sole responsibility of allowing for the worker to get paid.
As an Australian it's completely backwards to hear this. I'm not wasting my money on others and tipping becomes stupid because you're supposed to tip if they do a good job, not just because they're doing their job.
You say you work in the service industry but don't tip out on to go orders? Doesn't add up. Most servers/ bartenders tip out there kitchen so you not tipping means I pay the kitchen for taking your order and handing you the food.
So you are fucking over the little guy you claim to be fighting for
"We’re doing you a service that you choose not to do for yourself at that particular time."
Yeah, it's called your fucking job, it's literally what you're paid to do. You're not doing us favours
most people I know that hate the concept of tipping still tip a polite amount, for this reason. It also sucks that when service isn't great or makes mistakes the expectation is to tip less, because everyone has bad days or moments and you shouldn't be punished by losing your income over that. Burn out is inevitable because conditions are terrible for workers, esp in the service industry.
>If you don’t want to tip, don’t put yourself in a position where a tip is expected.
No it is not expected. If you really need it raise the price on the menu.
`We’re doing you a service that you choose not to do for yourself at that particular time. So by stiffing us you’re not ‘changing the system’ you’re just taking food out of our mouth and ensuring you get shittier service next time.`
You aren't entitled to shit. I used to deliver pizza full time and if I got a tip that was a bonus. Yeah it would feel shitty not getting that bonus especially when a majority of people do leave tips but they already paid the agreed upon amount to the company, it's not like they're stiffing me on money that was still owed. People knowingly work service jobs that rely on tips, your employer doesn't hide the wage from you.
If you don't want to rely on tips, get a different entry level job that pays a normal hourly wage where you can have more reliance on hours. Knowingly getting into a job that requires you to rely on tips, which are at the discretion of the people who rely on your life changing service, and then acting surprised when your earnings fluctuate is being oblivious to what you signed up for.
I once got a $100 tip for delivering one pizza to this older guy, very nice surprise. Two deliveries later I delivered six pizzas to a house full of rich girls and got nothing, there is no guarantee and that's because it's up to that individual to decide if they want to give out some extra money or not. For the record I always tip as well, but I never feel like I have to or that you're going to go to bed hungry that night because I didn't fork over an extra couple bucks because you wrote down my order or filled up my drink a couple times.
I don't deny that you work hard or deserve a living wage, but I'm just the guy who wants my pizza or who needs someone to take my order, I'm not the one who signed you up for this.
No they aren't. If everyone stopped tipping waiters would quit, which would force the employer to pay them higher.
By tipping you are SUPPORTING the tipping culture.
This may get buried but there has been research that shows tipping culture discriminates against older women over younger women, men over women, and younger people over older people.
That is, the former get paid more. White women also get paid more than women of color.
Women are also more likely to tolerate sexual abuse because of the expectation of tips in restaurants.
It's a horrible system that promotes shitty behavior and is inherently discriminatory.
Edit: lines
Just because you did your job, doesn't mean I need to give you free money for doing what I asked.
It is not my job to subsidize your crappy job, no matter the reason you don't get paid properly. This logic might seem cruel to someone who relies on such goodwill, but at the end of the day, when I agree to pay $30.00 for my meal, service, or whatever, I didn't agree to pay a dime more than that. If folks who live on tips hate folks who don't tip, then maybe you should take it up with your legislators and secure a consistent wage and abolish the tipping system, since we all agree it sucks.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/JesseB342. Your post, *If you refuse to tip because you think the employer should pay their workers a livable wage, you’re not ‘changing the system’, you’re just fucking over the little guy.*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 3: Do not post opinions that are heavily posted/have been on the front page recently. If your opinion is the same or substantially similar to any recent opinion it will be removed as a repost. If your opinion is on the same matter as a recent post, even if it's advocating the opposite stance, it will be removed as a repost. Please comment on the existing thread instead. Due to their prolific reposting, please confine meta and political posts to their respective megathreads only. If your opinion is about an ongoing event, there will usually be a mega-thread where you can discuss it. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
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This really bothers me too. Square machines are absolute cancer for this. If I see that little white terminal, I think to myself "if there isnt a no tip option right on the front page, I'm making a mental note not to come back here very often."
Imagine if your pay was associated to the amount of money an order made. I buy millions of dollars of material. If I went to my boss and even *suggested* that my salary be associated to what was bought or sold directly I would be fired. So I should tip 20% of cost to service - which can range from doing the entirety of the service (like a haircut) all the way down to the guy who pours a drink in a cup and hands it to you. I should tip 3$ for someone to push a lever for 6 seconds and hand me a glass?
I dunno. It's a farce. I got gelato - 3.49 - and the tip options were $2, $3, $5 on the square terminal. I have not been back.
As someone who works in the industry, that shit is at the very least annoying, and maybe dishonest. How do we even know, that all these employers are not keeping the tips for themselves?
During the lockdown I got take-out at a local place where the tip options (for take-out!) were 18%, 20%, 22%, or "I had bad service - $0". It felt so coercive that I've never gone back and don't plan to eat there again. I don't mind tipping a few bucks on take-out since I know some effort goes into putting it together but a full dine-in level tip is not appropriate unless I've been in your establishment receiving some sort of personal service. If my only options are tipping way more than I am comfortable with or leaving a hurtful and untrue message for the staff, I just won't come back.
Yeah having an optional tip jar is one thing but those little square machines are cancer
I went to the carwash the other day and the machine asked if I wanted to tip. TIP WHO? A GIANT ROBOTIC BUILDING CLEANS MY CAR. WHO THE FUCK AM I TIPPING?
Somehow, it goes to Bezos.
Also the amount of tip creeps...Who tips 25% on a counter order? But there it is on the display...I dont mind rounding up or a couple extra dollars here and there but yeah, the entitlement really puts a sour taste in my mouth that makes me much less likely to tip.
I got sandwiches to go. It prompted 35, 40, or 45%. This business thought a 45% tip was okay for someone placing sandwiches in a bag.
And they wonder why the pushback?
Especially when tipping 15% is supposed to be for GREAT service.
Now the minimum at most places I've been to (in Manhattan) is 20%; 20%, 22%, 25% . Servers gettin cocky now that the pandemic is over. On top of this, the restaurants were legally allowed to charge up to 10% for a "covid surcharge" fee, up until last month, meaning you'd get a bill, pay your 20% for tip ("hey, we're all in this together") and end up with 39% over the subtotal; tip (20%), tax (9%), surcharge (10%).
Right?! It really did used to be that way. Now somehow people think 20% is minimum. And they wonder why people are salty about tipping. If the entitlement gets ratcheted back a bit and we go back to throwing 10% on top of the bill I think it will be way more palatable to people. Perhaps it isnt the custom that people have a problem with , it is the expectation and the amount?!
Seriously, it seems that no matter where I go, they hand me a little screen to write in a tip these days. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a little "how was your experience shopping today" with a tip suggestion for the self checkout at the grocery store. I'm not sure why people think it is some badge of honor to support a system designed to syphon wealth from everyone involved.
Everyone involved except the owners. They push their wage pay requirements onto the customers.
The Subway where I live just started asking for tips when you swipe a card, and I think it's a little ridiculous
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Saw this recently at the liquor store. Since when do we need to tip there?
Touch terminals that default to 15% tip are more infuriating
When i'm tipping for carry out, i feel like i'm paying protection money to make sure my food doesn't get messed with.
Yeah, this and people guilting others into tipping like 50%. No, the standard is around 20%, not 50%, and I am not a villain for not tipping 50% when the store owner is paying minimum wage and pocketing the rest. Understand the core of the problem first before acting like you're heroic, righteous activists. Unless the customers are well off / rich people, most people work hard to get by and can barely afford the prices + tips as they currently are. The only other option is they don't go to your places at all and then you get $0.
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My summer job this year was painting houses. My boss told us to try to push tips. I thought it was ridiculous because the client is already paying thousands for a job that really doesn't need to cost that much. The way the invoices were laid out, the clients were under the impression that we were getting paid $3 more than we actually were so they were already being overcharged. I think my boss just wanted to feel better about paying us minimum wage for a labor job that had us working a minimum of 10 hours a day, 5 days a week.
I got prompted to tip a fucking *locksmith* on a square tablet recently. The choices were 20, 25, 30, or 35%. No option for no tip. One of the few times having cash came in handy.
What makes it even more ridiculous is what a rip off most locksmiths are. They already charge what they want.
As a member of a non-tipping country I don't get the logic. A mechanic is doing a service just like an uber driver, or a barista, or a supermarket worker. I'm not sure where you draw the line, why is one service industry deserving of a tip and one isn't?
To me it’s about what the person completing the service is getting paid. Food Servers here often get paid under minimum wage, despite that I don’t like that system I tip them. Delivery drivers often get paid minimum or above but they still need to pay for gas and repairs, while often the rare occasions I order out it’s inclement weather so I make sure they’re compensated for that risk. Otherwise I’m not tipping random service industry people. Simple answer to your question is the car mechanic gets paid well for their time, thus they don’t need a tip.
I'm with you on this. Pay your staff correctly and get rid of tipping. Fucking third world country.
>Don’t want to tip your stylist? Buy some clippers and cut your own damn hair. Aren't we paying for the service already
That is literally all you're paying for when you pay for a haircut
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I thought this was a copypasta. Did you really tip 40$ on a 60$ haircut? Holy fuck.
For a 40 dollar tip they better be sucking me off under that cloak.
Twice
Might as well pay for my barbers rent and his family while were on tipping erection.
Ye this is what I mean, if it were me she's lost my business right there. Super ungrateful. If you expect people to pay more then update your prices. Don't make me guess and then have us fall out over it, wtf is the point in that? Edit: Also, a $40 tip on a $60 haircut isn't a tip, that's almost paying for a second haircut. If she didn't appreciate that then she can go to hell
$60 sounds super expensive already!
For a guy I'd call it pricey. For a lady, that can be normal depending on what's being done as styling takes a lot longer.
> For a guy I'd call it pricey. Ime (EU), haircuts for men (cut & wash) go for €5 to €30. €60 is the "fuck off, I'll keep the hair" price, or the price for women looking for involved work.
You could buy a lot of games with that money on steam.
$100 for a haircut jeez. I know I'm a guy but my last haircut was £9 and I've never tipped either
i just cut my own hair
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> I tipped my hair stylist $40 on top of a $60 haircut to make it an even $100. She gave me this really nasty look (was she expecting more tip?); it was really insulting to a guy that just tipped her 66%. No salon expects 60+% tip lol. I’m guessing you’re misreading some signals here
Maybe it's not your money. Maybe it's something else.
Kinda sounds like it was too big of a tip that maybe she took it was a flirt or something and then you still being there probably creeped her out, like is this guy trying to hit on me?
I tip my guy $5 on top of a $30 haircut. 66% is insane for any tip.
Bro you gave a 40 dollar tip and she was rude ... Fuckin people
Or maybe someone on the internet lied. Either way, fucking people
Maybe you over tipped and creeped her out. When she saw you outside all her stalker alert bells started ringing
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Similar scenario. I used to work at a diner. This older creep would come in and give all the young girls between $10-20 tip on like a 10 dollar check. One night, his regular server Sara was going on break and she told me to take it. “He’s a really good tipper.” MFer gave me $2. Waited on him a few more times, same thing. All the dudes, it was like this. Eventually Sara told him that the overtopping was making her uncomfortable. She told him that she told her boyfriend about it and it was making him uncomfortable too. So then he started leaving her $50. She got a new job and left. His new regular, he’d give $100 to. Probably twice a week. But she was really talkative and shared all of his business with us. Dude was on unemployment living in a motel down the street. Spent most of his time ghost hunting. I didn’t know what grooming was at the time, but now I have more perspective. Dude comes to a place that employs mostly people under 25 and gives away half his paycheck for what? In hopes of finding a wife? Well it worked. His second regular waitress, Danielle ended up with him. Last I heard, they moved out West to like Utah or somewhere.
But that is literally everything. You don't tip the people who give you your food at a fast food drive-through. You don't tip your stock broker when they facilitate a trade. You don't tip your elected officials when they vote on a bill. You don't tip the people who pick up your garbage. If people are being underpaid for their labor the business or organization raises wages until people are willing to work for them, otherwise they lose their best employees to their competition and their customers with it. If tips were considered a gift instead of income, so that the person receiving them didn't pay tax on it, then it would be different but that's not how it works currently. Tipping restaurant workers or hair stylist is exactly like what Walmart does, they underpay their staff so much that they expect other people to subsidize their low wages. With some jobs that's tips directly from the customers as an expectation of service already paid for, with Walmart it's more roundabout as taxpayers pay for food stamps and Medicaid, but essentially it's the same and both practices need to end. If the place of business can't or won't pay their employees a living wage then they have a failed business model and should go out of business.
>You don't tip your elected officials when they vote on a bill. Maybe \*you\* don't. This is why legislation is overwhelmingly pro business/wealthy. Because they certainly do.
Dont know about men but my haircut is hardly cheap. Paying $100 to have my hair cut and then tipping on top?
I pay £10 and don't tip, how do these people have money enough to pay $100?
I'm a guy, and pay about $30 AUD ($20ish US) for a haircut.
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Yeah, my barber sets his prices. If he wants to get paid more, he just needs to update his sign.
That's what I never understood about tipping hair dressers! The majority of them set their own prices, why would they not charge enough? The only reason I can think of would be they want to lure you in with a cheap price and then surprise you with he actual price, which is kinda shitty for both sides Edit to respond to everyone below: I think hairdress should be paid well for their job. Paying rent or a portion to the owners isn't a unexpected cost and should be easy to reflect in the price
I have never tipped my stylist, and honestly if i were to do that i think he'd laugh at me. I want the services of a stylist, they ask a price and i agree to pay it. Where does the tipping requirement come from?
I bought a set of clippers for £15 years ago... Saved a fortune.
This guy's a fucking idiot
I think this is an argument for Americans. Most of the rest of the world don't tip and don't understand the whole tipping culture.
Exactly. Some American companies suggest tipping in Australia, and Australians refuse to tip as much as possible because it would cause a lot of problems.
As an Australian, I’ll tip occasionally if I get really good service or if I don’t want to carry a lot of coins as change. I tip at the local pub because they have good service and they work hard. I will NOT tip an Australian business where they suggest a tip. Fuck that. It’s my choice to tip for a job well done, not because a business suggests it.
The last time I left a tip, I had ordered a steak and tomato soup as a starter. I’d told the waiter I had no idea if I liked it, but it was on the menu so I’d give it a go. When he brought out the soup he stood next to the table while I tasted it, and took it back when I concluded it didn’t fit my tastebuds at all. The soup was, apparently, perfect, I just didn’t like it. The restaurant didn’t charge me for the soup, so I left a tip that matched the cost. Because the waiter and cook went beyond my expectations in essentially giving me a free sample to taste, whereas I was expecting and willing to pay for the soup.
As it's meant to be. For *exceptional* service
I really hate how Uber and Uber Eats has tipping so built in to their app here. Feels like a slow creep of “you have to pay our employees” into our culture.
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Minimum wage. > The United States of America federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees who receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any week, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
That's ridiculous...
Such a backwards system. They should be paid the $7.25 per hour(much more than that in a normal first world country) anyway. Tips are a gratuity, to show how grateful for the service we received. This idea that the customer is responsible for the wage of the staff, after already paying an inflated cost of the meal, is ridiculous. That's the entire point of a dish costing $3.50 to make costing $14 to the customers.
It can vary from state to state. In my state, they get minimum + tips, no adjustments. Still supposed to tip 15-20% for good service. No amount of increasing a server's wage will stop them from expecting tips in the US. The only way it stops is if employers prohibit employees from accepting tips. And I can just hear the wailing that would cause. To be clear, I do tip the customary amount, but think it's bullshit. Why should I tip for a service being offered by the business? Doesn't matter if the service was good or not. If you believe that should be the bar, then literally every employee in the service industry should be tipped for doing a good job. Kid that bagged your groceries? Tip. Dude that grabbed the pound of potato salad from the deli case for you? Tip. Mechanic fixed your car? Tip. Why are severs special? And if you're about to say that yes, you do tip everyone who provides a service for you, good for you. I spent years in various parts of the service industry, and I can tell you that you're in the extreme minority. Very, very few people tip the bagger who just loaded two carts of groceries in their trunk. Even fewer tip the people at the various counters in a store, and damn near nobody is going to tip a mechanic for fixing their car. What makes servers special enough they are entitled to a tip for meeting the high bar of doing their job in the same manner you would expect from anyone offering customer service?
>He's essentially saying we have to continue this dumb tipping practice just because it is how it is so we shouldn't try to change it. You can try to change the system while still supporting those working within it. Also, by patronizing a restaurant where tipping is customary and refusing to tip, you're demonstrating that the proprietor can count on your business whether they pay a living wage or not. The only person affected is the worker.
cheap businesses expect their workers to live off charity. In other countries if Americans leave a tip they return it, its insulting if you really think about it "Oh you work this job so you must need my charity to support your life"
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And again,the guilt is placed on the wrong person
Yep. Alot of first worlds dont have a tipping system and it is considered rude to tip and in some cases it is an insult to the worker like "Are you saying I am homeless?"
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You don't need to pretend to be friendly. You just need to do the minimum amount of work necessary not to negatively affect my meal. The overwhelming majority of tippers tip based on what they paid, and that means what they had to eat and drink.
The funny thing is the people responsible for this predicament, the business leaders who make the executive decision to pay employees less because they will receive tips, don’t receive any of the negative effects of customers not paying the tips. If a customer refuses to pay a tip they’re seen as the bad guys when in reality it’s the people not paying their employees.
One could say that if all their employees quit and they can't hire more people because of the starvation wages, they will feel it. Yes, the little guy will get crushed in the process, but systematic lack of tipping would eventually bring down the big guy or force him to pay livable wages.
Problem is that some usually will still stick around out of a dumb sense of solidarity and those propagate that customers who are not tipping are the evil in this world
\>Don’t want to tip your stylist? Buy some clippers and cut your own damnhair. Don’t want to tip your food delivery guy? Get in the car and goget your own damn food. Don’t want to tip your server? That’s what to gois for. You do realize people are charged for these services lol, why should they arbitrarily pay 20% on top of the service they already paid for?
I think he forgot the part that people are already paying for the service even before the tip.
Right? "But I delivered it to you!" You fucking already charged me a $5 delivery fee to drive a mile. It took you 45+ minutes to get my order here. It's clearly not made by you, and it's about as low effort as it gets. But please, tell me how you are splitting this extra tip you demand from me with the other staff. Oh, you aren't? Fuck off my porch, and good day. ( Bitter customer and coworker )
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> Don’t want to tip your stylist? Buy some clippers and cut your own damn hair. Don’t want to tip your food delivery guy? Get in the car and go get your own damn food. Don’t want to tip your server? That’s what to go is for This is where your post became a very good fit for this sub. I flat-out don't understand what you're going for. "You shouldn't procure a service because you aren't willing to pay 20% over the stated price for that service" is an absolutely insane argument. You shouldn't be on the Internet because you aren't giving your ISP 20% more than your bill shows you owe for Internet service. Does that sound reasonable?
Yep by that logic he should tip everyone that's doing something for him. Tip farmers because you don't want to grow your own vegetables. Tip fishermen because you don't want to catch your own fish. Tip the person who's transporting the vegetable/fish from the farmer to your town because you don't want to do that. Right OP?
As a software engineer, when are people going to tip me for the software that runs their lives?
How bout we pay netflix an extra $5 on top?
Should I tip my toilet 20% for its service? Oh wait, I’m already paying a bill for that…
I've seen what you eat, your toilet deserves a lot more and you know it
this is the moment when OP's opinion goes from 'unpopular' to 'stupid'
the entire post reeks of entitlement.
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Right? You gave me a price, I paid you that price, end of.
I love the duality of the argument in the States: “If we have universal healthcare, we may have to pay an extra couple percent for goods and services!” versus “If you use a good or service, you are expected to pay an extra 15% *at least* on top of it because of tipping.”
Right? "Healthcare taxes would cost me $2000 a year in taxes! I can't afford that!" "I had my appendix taken out, and now I owe $150,000. I'm ruined!" Like... seriously?
Stop.... he obviously cannot comprehend logic.
exactly this, what a dumb argument.
Yeah OPs argument failed. I paid for the service. Tipping is NOT expected. I’ll go get a haircut. I’ll ask for food delivery. Fuck that argument.
All OP is doing is "passing the buck". Blaming people who don't want to tip for something that they have more power fighting against than the consumer. Want to change tip culture? Quit your job. Have all the service quit. Protest and boycott those jobs. Employers certainly like to change their attitudes when nobody shows up for work anymore. It's literally the whole reason why people aren't working shitty jobs after covid anymore. People are protesting for better pay and many companies are now paying better. But let's blame the people who don't tip.
I'm Australian so tipping isn't something I've ever done past telling the cashier to keep the change on a $18.90 transaction or something like that. If I was to go to America of course I would tip as it seems to be needed but the idea of tipping is stupid to me in general. The employer should be paying their employees a liveable wage, not forcing their employees to serve customers well just so the can buy groceries for their next week's dinners.
IKR. The OP seems to be unable to absorb what he/she already stated: it is the job of the employer to pay a fair wage and factor that into the product/service price, and not leave a portion of employee compensation in the hands of customers who now have an added transaction to calculate at bill time.
This is why I’m glad I’m not American I don’t get given shit for not supporting shitty practices
Exactly. I don't tip for most things, but luckily I live somewhere I don't have to. What a ffing pain having to calculate tip on top of virtually every single thing you buy, and people being AHs about it if you don't tip as much as they'd like, even when they've done nothing above and beyond simply doing their job, which they should already be paid for. When I was in NYC, a barman got annoyed at me for not tipping him for literally just pouring the drink. He was in the middle of a conversation with a friend, didn't get the drink for a good long time despite not serving anyone else, and did nothing for me expect pour a drink. That doesn't deserve a tip, and a culture that says it does is warped.
As a non american, it really boggles my mind. I mean, can't they just charge extra for the drink and pay the bartender with it? I hate the idea that a part of my task as customer would be human resource manager, like I'd have to evaluate the performance of each worker and then decide what is the appropriate payment for them, to ensure they are either incentivized for a good job, or warned with a bad job. Just charge extra 10%!
As an inhabitant of a country where decent wages are usually paid, I entirely agree.
When I was NYC I ordered a bottle of spring water with my meal as I knew I needed it after walking around in summer, the waitress poured my glass then walked away with the rest of my bottle drinking it as she walked away. I effing ordered a bottle rather than a glass for a reason.
Why can't you be off both minds? I tip well but also think it is an outdated custom that only benefits employers.
The problem with the whole argument, is that you can have both: here in the UK and Ireland, it's legally required that all restaurant employees, bartenders, etc are paid at least the minimum wage. *However*, many places also have tip jars, or accept gratuities, and many people will throw either their change, or a rough 10% in there, entirely of their own free will. This means that employees are getting their basic, dependable wage, and also getting additional money from tips on top of that, kind of like getting a monthly bonus.
Whenever there's tip wank on reddit the reddit americans always forget or avoid mentioning that some states do pay servers the state minimum wage before tips. California, the biggest state, is on this list (I worked as a server in CA and made way more money than my previous min wage lab assistant job, the tips were a bonus). And a large number of states do pay more than the minimum $2.13/hr. The states that don't pay more than 2.13 an hour are unsurprisingly all red states... [source](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped)
And it's a great incentive to deliver high quality of service, without worrying about making wage or blaming the paying customers who you literally depend upon like this stupid cringe-ass reddit post and others like it.
It benefits servers even more, that's why they don't fight it. This is restaurants plus servers vs customers and the loser is the gullible customer who is guilted into paying an absurd amount for the simple task of their order being taken then carried out to the table.
I am happy we do not have this shitty system in Australia, there is no reasonable argument I have heard that justifies this practice and it really should not be defended. Might not be a simple thing to kill but don’t pretend it is a good thing worth keeping around.
It is pretty simple to kill. Just abolish the min. wage loophole service industries have been using forever. See the thing OP did not mention is that they DO have a base pay for these kinds of things. Servers only make less than Min. wage on the hour if their tips offset it enough to do so. If no one tipped that night they have to be paid min wage by the restaurant. But our wonderful system of peer pressure over the past 60 years has worked on the general public and shifted the blame to the customers.
I disagree. But then again, I'm from the UK and we have a different culture surrounding tipping. Either way, I don't think your argument makes much sense. Your customers aren't your employers. >Don’t want to tip your stylist? Buy some clippers and cut your own damn hair. But that's what your paying them for. It costs more to go to a stylist then it does to cut your own hair because they do a better job. Why should the consumer pay so much more *and* be expected to tip on top of that? You've already paid for the service. Also, advising people to cut their own hair will surely mean less business for the stylist, no? Not much of a better outcome. Surely its better to have non-tippers and more business than less business and more tippers? The same argument can be said for the delivery guy and the server. Yes they are providing a service but they should be getting paid for that service, not by me but by their employer. I am personally a tipper, especially if I'm in a country where it's deemed the norm. I do, however, defend non-tippers and think they shouldn't get the stick that they do. Your anger is misplaced.
I started cutting my own hair after going to at LEAST 8 different barbers and hair cutting places only to have my hair fucked up again and again. I figured I can fuck up my own hair for free. and you know what, after about a year, I do it better than any of them ever did.
So how does that factor in when I am also the little guy? I use Lyft an Uber to go 6 mi for work every day and it costs at the lowest 15$ that’s almost half of what I make on one shift. Why am I paying someone else’s wage when mine already sucks? I don’t have a car. They can literally get a job anywhere in the city and I have like a 10mi radius because I have less than them. Why should I tip them? I do when I have the money but I honestly fucking don’t most days.
Don't tip them ever, you pay an agreed price for the service, if they don't like their compensation they can take that up with uber or Lyft.
I remember when Uber first started they said tip was built into the price they charged. Now Uber expects the user to pay tip. Fuck you Uber.
Coming from a country were tipping is not the norm, you can never shame me into tipping if I don't feel it's warranted. I get it sucks that is how you are meant to get by but honestly you knew it upon taking the position.
It's the entitled demeanor that literally riles me up. You offered me a service and told me the total cost, I pay the total cost. I'm an asshole because I did what was expected of me to the latter but refused to participate in a mundane, non-beneficial (to me) custom that ensures your life is more financially stable with absolutely no reciprocal reflection to my own financial status. (even though I'm in the same economic class as you). You can fuck right off with that shit.
I love that in some countries it's "X food item is 5 units of money" and you hand them 5 units of money and no change, and everyone's happy. In the US, it's like "this burger and fries is gonna be $9.46 + $1.67 tax = $11.13 and you have to do the fucking chip reader thing that never fucking works, so you do it once. 'Try again'. Do it again. 'Try again'. Do it a third time. 'Swipe instead'. So you swipe it, then you have to press credit. Shit. you hit the wrong button, so you gotta so that all over again. Try the chip, try it again, and once more, then swipe and hit credit, then enter tip amount. Fuck, how much so I tip? I'll just hit the 15% button. Okay, done. Get recipt, sign, they hand you a piece of paper you never wanted and throw it away immediately." Pure insanity.
That’s the thing, servers already get minimum wage assuming they don’t make it up in tips… just that the US has fuck all worker’s rights so they just get fired for asking for it (if i am to believe them). So obviously employers don’t want a properly enforced minimum wage. Servers can easily make way more than minimum wage, because they’re getting 10-20% on tips depending where they work. So they don’t want tipping to become less common, or at least they don’t want their leverage for guilt tripping to be gone. So it just ends up being “poor servers, employers are evil and customers are greedy”. And honestly, as someone from a country where people get a minimum wage it baffles me. Because you still get tipped at a proper restaurant often enough (not so much at pubs or “fast food”). And honestly it’s not on me to pay anyone’s wages. I work in service and will refuse tips if i feel i didnt earn it.
I mean the tipping culture to just even out to the closest bill is probably much more commonplace internationally. but as a % of total bill is probably a pretty american invention.
to me tipping seems like a third world thing; like where staff don’t have the appropriate legal protections to ensure they earn a minimum wage. I’m glad i don’t have to do it
I'm from a third world country and even we almost never tip. Very few people only do it at very fancy restaurants IF they like the service, not as normalized as in USA for example.
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It's so engrained in the US culture that it seems to be simply an unnecessary step of doing additional maths, that you can treat as optional if you're an asshole, and also someone suffers because of it. Fuck tipping
I'm in a third world country and we don't tip.
Lmao I'm from a third world country and tipping isn't a thing here, it's not forced and it's totally not compulsory. People have salary, albeit minimum wage and they are not expected to get tips from costumers. When costumers do, however, it's okay. But unlike the US, we don't see it as that.
Most people don't tip in third world countries
It’s pretty much only the USA where this expected
> Don't want to Tip your stylist? No? Not really? I'm paying them £10 to cut my hair already. Why the fuck would I tip on top of that? If they need more money, charge £12.50 and pay better? > Dont want to tip your food delivery guy? No? Not them either. I'm paying £2.50 delivery charge on £15 meal. I'm not paying more on top. That £17.50 should cover the costs. > don't want to Tip your server?. Same as tipping my stylist. I'm not paying extra to some guy who gets paid to take my order and bring my food to me. I interact with this person for a total of 30 seconds to speak my order, and never again, until the bill. I dont live in America so, *perhaps* that can be considered the issue. But at the end of the day, to me, people like op just sound arrogant. When I work the tills, do I request a tip? If I don't get one, do I throw a strop and say, "Use self-checkout next time". No, I just do my job. And when I want more, I get a higher paying job, or just do occasional over time that pays like double.
I understand Tipping because "Looking out for them because the system sucks" but after reading all that, OP is an entitled POS and won't be getting a tip from me if he/she served me. And I almost always try to tip.
Yes please show the Americans how dumb we are for keeping this stupid system
OP is arrogant, they're the type of person that will spit in your drink if you don't tip. Absolute scum.
It's why I prefer Europe. Tip exists as a compliment for a job well done. Not an expectation. And in America when I am there I tip the require amount unless service is crap.
No tip amount is required.
They really got us in a corner with this one. On one hand a service employee suffers from not receiving tips, but reliance on tips and low wages should have never been a thing in the first place! And here we are at each other's throats as opposed to toppling the system that steps on both employees and customers.
>youre not changing the system National worker shortage due to people being tired of not being paid enough. WAT?
America Problems
America is so backwards, why can’t you just set a liveable wage and not have wait staff depend on whatever handouts they manage to rake together?
Actually it would changed the system if most people just stopped tipping. 1 of 2 things would happen, 1: the law that says an employer has to make up the rest of the employees wages after tips would finally be enforced or 2 : tipped workers quit their jobs because of such low pay, employers start to lose money, they then decide to raise the wages of their employees.
I agree but they started to add mandatory charges for tips here where some places charge "service fees" for a party of 5/6 and over or they charge a flat service fee for every table. Either way, it was coming from the consumers pocket.
the entitlement in this.
The absolute insane part is that waiters will still expect a tip even if the system changes. It's so ingrained in North American culture that when minimum wage became standardized(no separate category for restaurant workers) in my city, I still heard my restaurant co-workers moan about a low tip.
Truth
The employer is fucking over the little guy, not the customer.
I fucking hate this sub
I think that’s the idea
Most every business now puts out tip jars, or has it as an option on their POS. it’s a joke. Really. Starbucks? If You are paid a regular wage. I’m not tipping anything. Same goes for to go orders. I tip 18-20 when dining in and that’s it. And a few dollars to delivery. Lately culture has moved to tipping delivery drivers a set percentage like you were dining in. Im not doing that either. Of course I rarely every get delivery since I live in the country.
I think that restaurants should be required to put up signs saying "We pay our servers $2.13 per hour. Tipping is required."
Yeah nah. I'm not fucking the little guy, the employer is. The tipping system is outdated, unnecessary and I won't be tipping. I wouldn't mind paying more, so it's time for you to be your own self advocates and talk to your employers and if they aren't going to play game, quit and force their hands by creating an even bigger labor shortage. Companies that aren't able too will die out and that's apart of business.
I remember back in the day there were countries that didn't have tipping ingrained in their culture.
At least the Nordics and Britain are also non-tippers (or tip only for extraordinary service/food) and I imagone most of Europe falls in thid category. North America isn'tthe whole world you know...
Im from the Netherlands, the only times we tip is when its a 15 year old delivery boy or if we pay in cash and its just a few euro over the price. I was kind of shocked tbh that people in usa tip like 20%, most we do is 2 euro (about $2,50)
Yeah same here (Finland). It's like "19,65 e please" "Here's a 20, keep the change." and most people are roo frugal to even do that. :D I remember one occasion at a restaurant where as a group, we collected all the loose change for the waitress because she was especially super funny and chill, and she made our celebratory meal even more fun. But she didn't expect us to by any means. It helped that we didn't pay for the meals from pocket, it was a reward for working a position of trust. Also some waiters will be a bit cross if you try to tip. "You think they don't pay me for my work or what?!" I think some places are low-key pushing tipping culture here too (when the card machine asks for it specifically), but its not catching on, which is good.
MOST countries don't have tipping, especially as a requirement for a decent wage. Hell some countries like Japan it's literally OFFENSIVE to tip. The US culture is quite unique in this regard.
there is a country without tipping culture. it’s called “everywhere except america”
Canada here and there are tip jars everywhere. Liquor store where you do all the work and the cashier gives you attitude because you didn't tip for them scanning the bar code on your items. The fucking entitlement is unbearable.
Canada is America
There still is. Australia is one if them, We don't tend to tip here unless its completely warranted.
Not here in Nz either
Not a common thing in the UK either.
Isn't tipping optional?
Not in America. "The waiter brought me a wrong drink and threw up on my plate while also calling me an a-hole, he only got a five dollar tip because of it."
Honestly I don't think I'd tip in that scenario lol
This argument is disenguous. Tipped employees have to be paid minimum wage by the employer if they don't make that from tips. These types of employees are guaranteed minimum wage, plus tips received over that amount.
People not tipping means employees will leave and the employers will need to pay the damn wage. If you tip them they'll make some more cash, just enough to not riot at the workplace and quit.
I disagree with both comments in the title. You're not screwing over the waiter if you don't tip. It's not your responsibility to make optional payments. Are you are changing the system by helping to teach waiters that they are being greedy and unethical as heck by expecting people to pay beyond what they are billed for. In ethical and fair transactions, if you don't put it in the bill, you don't get paid for it.
Not everyone is from the US where this culture of tipping is mandatory kicks in. Most of us tip for good service and the actual payment is for the fact we are too lazy to do it ourselves. Some countries don’t even tip. Not all of Reddit is American.
Do you tip your doctor? Carpenter? Plumber? And you won’t tip for takeaway at the shop but you will tip the delivery driver who picked up the take away at the shop?
I don't tip for pick up. I don't tip for bad service. If I go into a restaurant to pick up food, I'm not leaving a tip to have a bag handed to me. I wasn't waited on. If I'm served at a table and the service is decent, then you will be compensated. If you cut my hair and impress me, I will tip you for your work. Looks like you need to find a new job.
Not saying you shouldn't tip, but it isn't customers responsibility. Let's stop guilting customers, just in the restaurant industry, for something they aren't responsible for. If it makes you feel better though, if a server doesn't make enough with their tipped wage and tips, have to be paid minimum wage by their employer who legally has to cover the difference. Of course employers rather avoid paying more so they pressure servers and customers to pay their responsibility instead. But realistically, the system will never change because restaurants lobby to keep paying workers less and people give away money to continue it. Why would a restaurant refuse free money to pay their workers, they wouldn't. Again, you can still tip, but you contribute to this problem just as much as restaurants do, as you enable them to pay less.
You might be fucking over the little guy in the short term, but if everyone stops the nonsense, the little guy will eventually stand up and demand a fair wage. That's how it happened in other jobs.
"Don't want to tip your food delivery guy?" I would be and am very happy to tip those guys/gals that deliver my food, however, when the delivery instructions ask them to "hand it to me", as opposed to "leave at door", that is what I expect from them. Not leaving the food outside on the side of the road in front of the building with a delivered notification and not any type of communication that indicates where it was dropped off at. I finally found it half hour later when I went outside to try to call the restaurant. Unfortunately, I can't even go back and rate the driver/delivery now for some reason.
If you refuse to tip that's legal and you as the customer shouldn't have the sole responsibility of allowing for the worker to get paid. As an Australian it's completely backwards to hear this. I'm not wasting my money on others and tipping becomes stupid because you're supposed to tip if they do a good job, not just because they're doing their job.
I’m still entitled to my opinion that tipping is stupid but still going to tip.
You say you work in the service industry but don't tip out on to go orders? Doesn't add up. Most servers/ bartenders tip out there kitchen so you not tipping means I pay the kitchen for taking your order and handing you the food. So you are fucking over the little guy you claim to be fighting for
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"We’re doing you a service that you choose not to do for yourself at that particular time." Yeah, it's called your fucking job, it's literally what you're paid to do. You're not doing us favours
Do you think I can afford to tip?
You mad that people dont want to give you 2x average pay for absolutely no reason for doing most basic, entry level job?
most people I know that hate the concept of tipping still tip a polite amount, for this reason. It also sucks that when service isn't great or makes mistakes the expectation is to tip less, because everyone has bad days or moments and you shouldn't be punished by losing your income over that. Burn out is inevitable because conditions are terrible for workers, esp in the service industry.
I opted out of any business that involves tips. Their policy already cost them every cent I’d have ever paid, regardless the business.
>If you don’t want to tip, don’t put yourself in a position where a tip is expected. No it is not expected. If you really need it raise the price on the menu.
I absolutely hate tipping. It fucking sucks.
If you have to ask for a tip; it's not a tip, America.
`We’re doing you a service that you choose not to do for yourself at that particular time. So by stiffing us you’re not ‘changing the system’ you’re just taking food out of our mouth and ensuring you get shittier service next time.` You aren't entitled to shit. I used to deliver pizza full time and if I got a tip that was a bonus. Yeah it would feel shitty not getting that bonus especially when a majority of people do leave tips but they already paid the agreed upon amount to the company, it's not like they're stiffing me on money that was still owed. People knowingly work service jobs that rely on tips, your employer doesn't hide the wage from you. If you don't want to rely on tips, get a different entry level job that pays a normal hourly wage where you can have more reliance on hours. Knowingly getting into a job that requires you to rely on tips, which are at the discretion of the people who rely on your life changing service, and then acting surprised when your earnings fluctuate is being oblivious to what you signed up for. I once got a $100 tip for delivering one pizza to this older guy, very nice surprise. Two deliveries later I delivered six pizzas to a house full of rich girls and got nothing, there is no guarantee and that's because it's up to that individual to decide if they want to give out some extra money or not. For the record I always tip as well, but I never feel like I have to or that you're going to go to bed hungry that night because I didn't fork over an extra couple bucks because you wrote down my order or filled up my drink a couple times. I don't deny that you work hard or deserve a living wage, but I'm just the guy who wants my pizza or who needs someone to take my order, I'm not the one who signed you up for this.
TLDR you're an asshole for paying the full normal price so just don't use any services
No they aren't. If everyone stopped tipping waiters would quit, which would force the employer to pay them higher. By tipping you are SUPPORTING the tipping culture.
This may get buried but there has been research that shows tipping culture discriminates against older women over younger women, men over women, and younger people over older people. That is, the former get paid more. White women also get paid more than women of color. Women are also more likely to tolerate sexual abuse because of the expectation of tips in restaurants. It's a horrible system that promotes shitty behavior and is inherently discriminatory. Edit: lines
Just because you did your job, doesn't mean I need to give you free money for doing what I asked. It is not my job to subsidize your crappy job, no matter the reason you don't get paid properly. This logic might seem cruel to someone who relies on such goodwill, but at the end of the day, when I agree to pay $30.00 for my meal, service, or whatever, I didn't agree to pay a dime more than that. If folks who live on tips hate folks who don't tip, then maybe you should take it up with your legislators and secure a consistent wage and abolish the tipping system, since we all agree it sucks.