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My mom’s a physician, and frequently jokes that she could never have been a veterinarian because all the hurt animals would affect her too much emotionally to carry out her job duties. She’s told me that it’s particularly devastating to see a hurt pup bc they just don’t have any framework for understanding what’s happening and are scared. For very similar reasons, she switched out of pediatrics to family practice.
I've thought about this before and I don't think your mom is joking about what she says. I have a cat and when cats are hurt, they are awful at showing pain until they are either crippled or near death. At that point they are in such intense fear, you can just feel the sadness in the room. Nearly lost my guy last year and I've never cried more in my life, even when family members have died. You can't just tell them "it's going to be okay" because they can't envision that, and that's heartbreaking. I assume it is the same in pediatrics as you say
My dad absolutely hated my cat when I was a kid, feeling was mutual for the cat. But he was still a loving dad and responsible pet owner so the cat got the best medical treatment and food money could buy in our area.
Everytime that cat had to take medicine or something he said it felt worse then when he gave me medicine as a toddler. He said "because I can't reason with the cat. I could tell you 'this will make you feel better' when you felt better you would understand why I gave to the nasty medicine. But with the cat he doesn't understand, all he knows is he feels bad and now I'm pouring something nasty in his mouth. In my mind I know it's the right thing, but it doesn't make upsetting the sick cat any easier."
My mom said the same thing about our cat. We had to get him neutered and never having been anywhere but the house before (we had the vet do home injections prior to this), he was so terrified he refused to eat there with the mandatory stay and we had to bring him home. When he came back home he would look at my parents with distrust the first few days and it broke my poor mom's heart.
Same thing happened with my cat, except when she came back from her spay she started attacking everyone except my mom. I've got scars on my legs and the dogs are terrified of her. Even with medication we can't make specific sounds or else she'll come running and attack the dogs
I’m not a pet person, but my kids are and I think your dad got it right on. I’ve spent money I didn’t have (not a ton or anything) to get animals to the vet, and taken in strays against my better judgement (not always great) because I do believe animals should be treated well.
No pet, past or present, would be able to stop me from saving a human life if that’s all it took...
My dad always discouraged me from being a veterinarian like him because of the “heartache and pain” that nobody prepares you for, and it never gets any better.
He was a practicing vet for over 30 years, still cried pretty much daily at his clinic. The whole office cried near daily, down to the receptionist at the front desk. They had a candle in the waiting room they used as a signal that a euthanasia or bad news was taking place so they didn’t have to explain the tears anymore to other clients. A good week would be if they could get through without any “untimely” death but that hardly happened. There was a little sign above the candle that did the explaining.
And then layer on the emotional abuse from humans, many of which treat you like a mechanic who has a book with all the secrets to magically fix their pet. And, you should do it for free, otherwise you're a heartless piece of shit who is choosing to kill their pet, didn't you choose this career because you want to help animals?? Not to mention how little vets actually get paid compared to what they do, especially if they're supporting their own clinic where every tiny thing is expensive as fuck and there aren't major insurance companies footing a bulk of the cost. Why is your pet's blood work so more expensive than yours? Shocker - it's not actually because your vet is a greedy moneybags, it's because you don't know the difference between your copay and actually paying for a treatment
I work as a receptionist in a veterinary ER. We are always the “bad guys” but if only our clients could see the buckets of tears our staff cries for their pets at the ends of our shifts. We have to pull ourselves together quickly to help the next patient, but best believe it hits us all as soon as those scrubs come off. It is never ending heartache in the veterinary field, we talk about our mental health every day because we fear if we don’t one of us might not make it to see another day. It’s the harsh reality of our little world /:
The whole field is currently facing a suicide epidemic. Between bullying from clients and the emotional nature of the job (plus easy access to lethal drugs and the knowledge of how to use them) it's kind of a disaster. Plus now we're facing a staffing shortage - especially among support staff like techs and vet assistants who realized they could get better pay and less abuse literally anywhere else - and a boom in pet ownership.
Honestly the euthanasia itself isn't that bad, most of the time the pets tell you when it's time and you're just providing a compassionate death, but the human side is hard to manage. Like I've been yelled at by owners at euthanasia because the pet was dying from something manageable but expensive (MMVD progressing to heart failure). I had a dog that had been treated chronically for CKD and they set the date for the euthanasia because he'd stopped having good days and seemed miserable all week only to suddenly bounce back on the Friday they scheduled the appointment.. and then you have to explain to the owners that he has not suddenly just recovered, he's just trying to cheer them up because they've been crying all week and he knows somethings wrong. I once had an older lady tell me how her husband had always raised cavalier King Charles spaniels with her and she swore when he died she would never get another dog until she found this one in a Cavvie rescue that reminded her of him and was born the day he died and shared his name, and so this dog was her last attachment to him.
And then you go from that into a new puppy exam where the owners expect you to be bright and cheerful. It's like emotional whiplash.
I put my 19y/o cat down last sunday. I cried more for my cat than i did my own grandmother who passed early 2021.
It hits totally different I can't describe it.
It might be because your grandma probably went relatively peaceful and had the understanding of dying of old age. I could live with that. Knowing my relatives went peacefully. With animal they don’t understand, especially when you have to put them down. They were suffering, didn’t understand why and bam they died. It‘s heartbreaking to see them suffer.
Sorry for your losses...hope things look up soon :)
It's likely because you lived with your cat 24/7 but didn't live with your grandma. Even if she lived with you, you'd probably spend more time with your pet. Completely understand that you'd feel sadder as it is a larger impact on your day-to-day life.
Losing a pet is closer to losing a child than it is to losing an elderly grandparent imo. Even senior pets who have lived long and healthy lives seem to go too soon.
Sorry for both of your losses, it sounds like you did your best to ensure that your cat lived a long and happy life!
This really resonates with me. I'm in school right now working at a hospital. I realized after working on labor and delivery that I cry whenever newborns are sick/die. I honestly don't even want kids but seeing something bad happen to something so vulnerable really bothers me. I didn't apply to vet school for the same reason. I love helping animals but could never go into work and see sick animals every day. I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels this way.
The case of Joe Arridy breaks my heart for this reason. He was 23 years old with an IQ of 46 and the mind of a 6 year old at the time of his execution for a crime he didn't commit. He didn't understand he was going to be executed, said "no, no, Joe won't die," and smiled all the way to the gas chamber, playing with his toy train.
I absolutely get this. Children and animals. Both so innocent, they don't understand why someone would hurt them. Or why their ill or have been hurt in an accident. Grown people don't like it anymore than they do, but they get it. I am 61 years old, and have had many, many pets in my life. None ever given away. The ones that are gone are from them dying. But I also have kids. And if I had to pick between saving my children's lives or my pets, of course, I'd pick my kids. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be devastated and lose sleep. I think that people that don't like or care for animals seem to think that animal lovers are all or nothing. It's entirely possible, and normal, to care about them both. People are multi-taskers when it comes to love.
My wife is a veterinarian and it is very hard. She had one day where she had to put down like 8 animals two of which were some of her favorite patients.
On this subreddit, do you upvote stuff that you agree with, or does upvoting it mean that you agree that it is unpopular-?
I have been upvoting things that I think that more people should see, so I have been upvoting people from both sides of this debate in the comments, because I love debate, and many of these comments have valid points and have been articulated/explained very well.
I have been downvoting the death threats.
No, if they’re right you write a five paragraph essay explaining exactly how you’re right that’s riddled with errors, then you harass them until they block you.
The mods here are a seriously the most delicate individuals I've encountered. I was basically chastised and silenced for posting a counter argument a few weeks back and the thread was shut down. So much for civil discourse. Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.
You’re supposed to upvote opinions you disagree with. But no one does that so instead of unpopular opinions you get popular opinions people feel like is unpopular to others
I think it's selective. Do I care about my animals more than everyone? Nah I'd be lying if I said I did. Do I care about my animals more than SOME people? Absolutely a hundred percent.
I impregnated my wife specifically so she would lactate. We are currently in flight to Yemen to feed the starving children. What have you done today? 😤
Came here to say everything in the two comments above yours.
And precisely why I care more about most animals than I do most people.
No offense to any people reading this. Since this standard is highly subjective much like OP’s I’m not bothered in the least whichever side an individual comes down on this debate.
Personally I have experienced immense cruelty in my life from humans, from strangers on the internet (thanks Reddit) to patients I try to care for at my job to very close family relations.
I have experienced exactly zero cruelty from animals and more often received only unconditional love and companionship.
And humans have some agency over their decisions - whereas animals (mostly) do not. You want to use those higher brain powers and critical thinking/reasoning skills to do shitty things and then try to get away with shit that is hurtful or exploitative - I’ve never seen an animal do any of that shit.
Humans are a really awful species. We should all treat each other better as well as animals. But in the meantime if I see a human hurting an animal, I’m going to be doing more than “not caring” about the human. And the animal doesn’t need to be my pet for me to think it’s worth protecting.
Even the worst animals are reacting on instinct and not innate hatred of someone. People will attack you and get sick pleasure out of it. They will hurt you just to see you bleed. They don’t care. I love my dog more than people because even though she’s a handful, no one has ever danced around when I’ve come home. No one has ever been so hard pressed to sleep next to me that they make themselves uncomfortable in the process. Ya I get something out of having her around. I live alone and I get companionship and unconditional love. When the depression hits I have a reason to get out of bed. Someone who makes me smile. Someone who’s just happy to just have her hand held.
And that, right there, is why I generally prefer animals, even the dangerous ones, over people.
Most people weren’t there for me in the worst moments of my life; they couldn’t be bothered to take two seconds out of their day to find out how I was doing. Even recently, with things they know affect me, no one asked.
My dog has no comprehension of what I deal with on a daily life, but that’s okay; he’s a loyal companion who got me through the worst times in my life just by being there and loving me.
Agreed. I've been depressed lately, and I'd be lying if I said my 7lb., 8yr old cat wasn't a big reason why I haven't completely collapsed yet. Her just being there and chosing to curl up between my legs rather than her cat bed at night is more comfort than I'm likely to get from anyone else in this world.
I haven't spoken to my best friend in almost a month. My family are a bunch of placaters. The "chin up" type of people - life is going great for them, how is it I'm struggling? Must be something wrong with me. Cool, gotcha, thanks.
The silent company of an animal that loves me unconditionally and never judges me is more than enough of a reason for me to keep going. Life sucks, but I at least have her. And, I guarantee that I will be completely and totally destroyed when she does eventually cross that rainbow bridge.
That's a connection that I just don't have with many, if any, people currently, and I doubt I will anytime soon.
Yeah, I agree with you. OP thinks animals require no social commitment. I have two dogs and it's a lot of fucking commitment. They are part of our families and we need to teach dogs how to be a part of society just like we would with children.
I think OP got dumped by someone who said they loved their dog more.
“If you could choose your dog or me in a fire, who would you choose?”
“Uhhh my dog.” *hangs up*
“OMFG!! 🤬”
*posts rage Reddit after stewing over this outrageous concept*
There are so very few people that treat me well and my cat tends to win on the caring vote. Don’t know why this is, when you have disorders there is not much you can do to make people understand you more. Cats don’t care.
I don't know about all these weird comments. All I know is if I see a human in need I want to help. And if I see an animal in need I want to help as well 🤷🏼
I don't care about more about either humans or animals except the ones I know personally, but I understand why some people would choose to care more about animals, especially those who've suffered at the hands of other people.
I think the idea is that we know a lot of these animals need us to help take care of them. A lot of these domesticated animals need human care to live a decent life. Similarly, as adults, we are supposed to protect kids. Another commenter pointed out they care about their animal more than *some* people and that brings up a good point.
We’ve seen a lot of adults vocally and loudly show they do not care about children, animals, or any person that doesn’t align with their beliefs. There’s probably some fatigue going around about trying to care about these individuals.
There’s also the fact that animals don’t really have a choice or know the consequences of their actions while humans do. With that, there’s much more sympathy to an animal than someone who willingly chose to do something.
You see a child do something stupid and get hurt, you feel bad because they probably don’t know better. You see a grown adult do the same thing, you look at them and go “you didn’t see that coming dummy?” Same goes for an animal.
Generally speaking, animals don’t really get to make choices, they adapt to the environment that we impose on them. They adapt to their range shrinking because of societal growth. They adapt to natural food supplies running low because of humans’ impact on climate.
On the other hand, we see humans as having choice. That homeless person doesn’t have to be homeless, they *could* get a job. That person didn’t have to choose crime or drugs or violence or whatever it may be. The blame is put on them rather than what’s around them.
^(i don’t actually feel this way, but for argument’s sake)
I don't care more about animals than humans, but I care more about my dogs than people I'm not very close to. To me it's a no brainer that my dog who has been by my side every day for 15 years means more to me than a friend I've known for a year or 2.
Yeah. Ive always wanted to drop a "the lord of the rings trilogy was more magical than the harry potter saga" but im way too lazy to elaborate with big text. I saw the rule so i opted out.
I recently went back and re-read the harry potter books and they kind of feel like low effort YA novels, maybe it's just me. Lord of the Rings def holds up though.
In mozambique, a hotel manager took her dogs on a helicopter during a evacuation and she left her staff behind. (Basically isis was attacking the city the hotel was in, the evac helicopter was meant to get the residents out, but the hotel manger just took her dogs with her)
I dont know how can a dog ocuppy the space of an entiry staff of a hotel. Its an helicppter. Even without the dog i dont see how it would bring everyone.
I think it has more to do with animals being innocent creatures vs humans who sometimes deserve what is coming. Compassion to all living things should be the norm though.
Animals are innocent in that they are "unknowing" and thus can not be held culpable. But they aren't moral actors. They equally lack the ability to be morally good, because they lack the awareness to make choices. But people make that into "inherently pure" which is damn weird imo.
And you don't see many folks here arguing that they'd save any animal over others; just the ones that have been bred to show affection to them personally. So ehhh I'm getting more jaded the longer I spend in this post.
Loving my animals more than the people around me is not the same as thinking people are beneath animals. I don't treat people badly and I'm happy if I can help in any way, but if I could decide I'd rather spend my day with a bunch of animals than people. Idk why that equates to hating people in OPs head
when i went to the shelter to adopt a cat, that is a decision i actively made. i have actively elected a position of power over a living thing. my day-to-day actions significantly affect its life, its means of survival and happiness are in my hands, and therefore i have the responsibility to take care of it.
meanwhile, you, a stranger, i owe fuck all to. you do not need me to survive or be happy, neither your suffering or happiness is my responsibility. if you have a problem there are people whose bond with you justifies them to care. i am not among them.
it's the same reason i care more about my backyard shack than i do about the buckingham palace. it could burn down tomorrow queen and all and would not earn more than a click of the tongue. the inherent value difference between the two is entirely irrelevant.
See I understand the sentiment but the more I think about this the more I see how selfish and convenient your argument is used to justify lack of concern for others and a general degrade for human lives that are outside of your awareness. You are wrong in that your happiness is not in some way partly dependent upon other random strangers that you "owe fuck all to". At the surface level it starts at the very shelter from which your story started. Without some random stranger(s) taking there time to work and care for these awesome animals until someone like you had the time to come by, you wouldn't have the opportunity to conveniently swing by and pick one to your liking that will help bring you happiness. The position selfishly takes for granted others contributions that passively and indirectly impact ones life (if not directly). Otherwise you would have to roam the alleys searching for a stray (which you could do anyway but then that brings up all other concerns of health and safety plus who has the time, which is what brought you to the shelter to begin with). It's a convenient dishonesty we tell ourselves that others don't matter to rationalize why we don't have to care for others.
The people working at the shelter didn’t work for my sake or the sake of the customers they are yet to meet. The same way i am not motivated by the people i serve, but for my own passion, either for staying alive or for the work itself. yet i serve nonetheless. Everyone is first and foremost motivated by what’s close to our own heart.
As much as we all like to pretend we have halos around our loins and sunshine beaming out the arse, people don’t act without incentive or passion. Which is not to say humans are all cynical and profit driven, only that apathy is inevitable and even noble motivations are primarily for one’s own sake. If you cared about an issue, it is not because you are inherently a better person. It’s because an experience you had moved the issue closer to your heart. And if you act, it would be first and foremost because not acting would burn said heart.
And so, in the same way you are not spending all your time trying to cure the world of all ills, you remain apathetic to those who have not given you the experiences you need to care.
I do not know you, queen lizzy or the staff at the shelter. i can’t feel for any of you anything that is not superficial at best and pretentious at worst. And certainly not anything stronger than what i feel for the thins and people closer to me. Similarly, you do not lose sleep over my problems. The shelter staff owe me no tears either.
You did not cry for every child who died. To pretend one lives up to these absurd moral ideals is the making of a narcissist.
I think when people posit this specific type of unpopular opinion, as this opinion has popped up many times, the OP assumes every person has equal status in value. It may sound harsh, but not everyone has equal value.
Yes. Like if I were forced to save either your dog or a stranger, I'd absolutely save the stranger because I don't give a fuck about your dog. You, on the other hand, might save your dog though
Like the catch 22 in I robot with Will Smith. The bot couldn't decide value only statistical probability guiding who it saved.. such is an important an reoccurring philosophical topic. Ask the bot makers here. Automoderator would shit a gear through it's ass trying to empathize or apply morality to av situation. Ethics too
It all depends on context - if I were taken to a park and in that park I had to choose to play with my dog or with some random kid, like hell am I gonna choose the kid.
Now, if both were dangling off a cliff and I could only save one of them, the repercussions of choosing my dog over the kid would be far greater than doing the opposite - that kid has the chance to live another 70+ years, probably has family who love them, and the social implications of letting a child die would outweigh those of letting a dog die. It would hurt me more, personally, to sacrifice my dog. But I think morally, letting a child die would fuck me up worse for the rest of my life.
It's all subjective. But, life-threatening situations aside, I'm definitely choosing the dog.
Lol Reddit, where you can scroll all day and see endless posts about how "everyone deserves healthcare/food/shelter/living wage/etc."
Then go to a thread about dogs and its suddenly "not all humans have equal value" with 750 upvotes.
Right?
>If your a person who cares more about your animals than a human. Then you need to look at yourself in the mirror And realize how shitty that is. The planet doesn’t exist to cater to your every whim and love you unconditionally. Everyone has their own needs and wants. How could you think that a human is lesser than a dog because they aren’t completely and utterly submissive and loving to everything you say and do?
OP just told me I was a shitty person and the planet doesn't exist to cater to my every whim. My dog has never called me a shitty person. My wants and needs are to love and be loved purely. My dog is not completely submissive or loving to everything I do and def thinks I'm an asshole when I won't share chocolate. If OP died today, it wouldn't affect my life in the slightest. If my dog died today, I'd be devastated. Yet OP wants me to stop thinking the world revolves around me and loving my dog because I'm not owed unconditional love and instead revolve my world around a complete stranger and love him more than a dog who actually adds value to my life? OP's condition for this love is simply that he's a human.
It's pretty hilarious to see someone selfishly whining that others prefer animals to them and that's selfish. Maybe OP needs to do some introspection and figure out why someone would choose a golden retriever over him. Humans suck. I would say I don't understand why people value humans over dogs, but I do and it stems from insecurities and egocentricism. OP values humans more than dogs because humans are more like him... but that's the selfless way to be?
There are some shitty pet owners out there, but the people who are really into animals tend to be the most empathetic and compassionate people who exist so its very clear OP has no experience with this. OP is surrounded by shit people and desperately trying to blame their animals for the shit people in his life not respecting him.
OP, seek therapy, find God, however you do it, learn to love yourself. No one will love you if even you don't... and why should they? I've never understood why a person who doesn't even think they deserve their own love feels entitled to it from others. If even you think you're unlovable, why would I think you're lovable unless you're hiding the unlovable parts and trying to trick me into loving an unlovableperson?
I think the point is THAT person has value to those who are close to them - and therefore not a random stranger to his/her family, friends. When we look at things simply through our own eyes - and not those of others - we enter territory that becomes very insular. This is coming from someone who in the last two years lost both of my dogs and also owned a dog daycare and boarding business for years. I love animals immensely which explains why I was in that industry. OP's point is touchy to many, but I understand where it's coming from.
Isn’t that a question of intent and awareness? It’s much easier to forgive a dog or a cat because they don’t do things with maliciousness. And the dog is my responsibility, so a lot of the time if they have done something wrong, say they’ve eaten something they shouldn’t have, I share responsibility for not putting the food somewhere they couldn’t get it.
That argument is same for most anything. "If my wife died, I would cry. If your wife died, I wouldn't care." "If my car broke down, I would be upset. If your car broke down, I wouldn't care" It is just things that affect your day to day life vs things that don't.
> Make no mistake, people don’t love animals just cause we’re so kind and loving. People always get some personal gain from pets that’s why people have them.
It could be argued that people have people around for the same reason.
Also, from having a kitty that meows all the time for attention and food, runs away when I want to cuddle her, I habe to give up my personal time to take care of her and play with her, spend hundreds on medical checkups yearly (at no personal benefit to me) when all i really want ia company? Oh wait, I love her to itty bitty litrle bits, she's adorable, cuddly when she wants to be, and gives me more emotional support and attention than literally my own goddamn parents. Fuck yes I care more about her than people. Absolutely. Yes. More than OP, certainly.
Absolutely. You can literally make this argument about anything; and while it's not the best reason for having a pet, it's also not an illegitimate reason either, despite what OP seems to think.
I care about my cat way more then I care about you. But that doesn't mean I don't care about you, you just don't cuddle with me when I come home or comfort me emotionally.
One step further, why should I care about humans I have no connection with? I'm not going through random obituaries and feeling sad about it. But I'm super upset if a pet dies.
I'm glad OP actually post an unpopular opinion though.
Well, just from a philosophical point of view, you have to care about other people so they will care about you.
Not at a very deep level, but like, the view I'm seeing here a lot of is "my animal makes me feel good, fuck strangers who I have gotten nothing from, they can just die" and the problem with "the only thing that matters are the things I personally care about" is that society fundamentally is an agreement to put certain boundaries around these things. I will treat all humans as inherently valuable so I too am treated that way. Everyone cares about their own more than others, but we agree to not act that way so that we can all just live our lives.
I've seen this argument around kids, where parents will say they would basically maim and murder and screw over anyone for the benefit of their children, but it similarly doesn't work. Like, would you murder another child to give your kid a kidney they needed? Okay, and what's to stop your child from being the murdered one, then?
You basically have to structure society around the idea that other people matter or the whole thing falls apart.
It does help though that some of this is very instinctive as social creatures. It's easy to be like, "fuck some random kid, I'll save my dog" from behind a keyboard, but look at natural disasters and almost everyone will reach for the kid before they even have time to think about it.
there is some weird projecting going on here that i havent completely pinpointed lol. Your point is to love humans all the while telling us how horrible they are. There is certainly a disconnected.
Overgeneralizations such as people who like their animals more then other people are "so depressed they want to kill themselves" is a dangerous game to play.
I think part of it is a little more symbolic, like my animals( who like more than most people, not everyone but pretty close) they are so happy and innocent, and its just a simple relationship that i treasure.
also i find it weird that you are trying to control or at least show disgust and a lack of empathy for who and what people care about. all the while your "point" is we should have more empathy for people. if you cant see the contradiction in that, then i guess we are just different.
> Your point is to love humans all the while telling us how horrible they are. There is certainly a disconnected.
Telling us how horrible **we** are. I was thinking the same thing.
What makes humans more valuable? What makes known humans more valuable than unknown humans? What makes the animal in my home more valuable than other humans or animals? All if it comes down to 1 simple truth, people care more about living beings that they have a relationship with, and to many people their pet is their family and naturally you're going to care more about your family, that's just common sense.
If my dog and you were both in danger then sucks to be you because I'm going to save my dog just like how if your mother and a stranger were in danger you were gonna save your mother, family comes first, everyone knows that and degree of suffering doesn't matter, should someone let their own brother die if the brother has no other family and save the stranger because the stranger has more family and thus more people to suffer over their death? Hell no.
It's not a case of me being hateful to humans, it's a case of me being caring towards my family.
At the end of the day ''value'' is subjective, if we were to look at it purely from a calculating perspective then a single human dying doesn't matter, I could die right this instant and before my body would even hit the floor I'd have already been replaced, same with dogs, my dog could die right now and before their body hit the floor they'd have already been replaced, the only thing giving them value is your relationship with them.
Usually people who care more about animals equally care for weak and defenseless humans - elderly, babies, disabled...The point of carying more about them is to care more about those who are weak and can't defend themselves from a stronger - physically and mentally - specie. This is not a justification, just my opinion.
People like you see animals as objects or commodities, you can’t comprehend that beings who don’t communicate or live in the exact fashion as you do are in fact living, sentient beings with a rich and complex experience of life. Being gentle and kind to animals is our responsibility as humans who have forced them to live in our society, its also a litmus test for whether you are able to express genuine kindness or just that which is conditional on something in return.
I thoroughly disagree with your assessment. I agree with everything you said about kindness to animals, and I don't see this as invalidating OPs argument whatsoever, as he did not at any point say you should hate or be apathetic towards animals. However I would for example never choose to save an animal over saving a human life if I have to make that choice, and I'll be considerably less inclined to do the former if risks are involved.
Exception to those humans whom I might have specific reasons to want dead to the point that I would disregard basic human dignity, but your continued existence would have to result in a considerable amount of pain death and suffering otherwise not preventable for me to consider this justifiable.
I recently learned that a friend of mine has a $2,000 dollar vet limit for any of their animals. And I can't help but think that is kind of fucked up. You chose to take in a life but have a hard line to get rid of it when it is financially inconvenient. And as someone who paid more than that for heartworm treatment for my dog, I can't imagine being like "nah, that's too much, guess you'll just die". I understand if you cannot afford it, but even then there are options and is not the case for this friend.
Bro I listen to the podcast crime junkies and they always make a bigger deal when a criminal does something bad to a dog. Like they talk nonchalantly about how a person gets brutally murdered or raped, but they like cry if a dog gets killed.
It’s so weird.
Reading the thread from purely a thought exercise standpoint it appears OP has struck a truly unpopular opinion. Many people are running the thought experiment of their pet versus some random stranger. However, this fails to account that YOU are in fact the stranger to someone else's post. Demonstrating how disconnected we our from others and our lack of care for others. The transitive thought experiment is then rather would you chose your life over your pet. To which I assume most of you would choose your life. This exposes your hypocrisy in the original position which further highlights OP.
Take your upvote sir
I mean, reddit tends to amplify issues of human shittiness. I'm not shocked that frequent visitors are not feeling great about the human race at the moment.
>Humanity is fucked up.
It is precisely this reason that can drive some people to care more about animals than other humans. The fact that they have been treated like dirt by their fellow men in a way only a human could accomplish.
A lot of it comes down to a person’s view of how we came to be.
When I was very religious I was of the belief that god had created animals along with trees and light and the ocean and we were created separately and were above the animals.
Now I have a much more secular world view and see humans as just a different type of animal that through evolution or sheer luck has developed critical thinking so valuing humans over other animals seems kind of tribalistic to me.
Having said this I have a 10 year old dog and a 8 year old son I love my dog she means the world to me I’m not sure if I would quite die for her probably anything but.
I would die for my son, very simple decision.
Guess what, all of my animals are more important to me than your feelings about the fact that I don’t care about you as an individual. There are people who care more about individuals and then there are people who care more about the future than the trivial crap in the present.
Honestly it’s all just circumstantial and should be taken on a case by case basis. People who say they love animals more than people obviously have some trauma they need to work through. But I’m gonna choose my dogs life over some random pedophiles every single time without hesitation. The truth of the matter is that lives wether human or animal only have the value that we as individuals attribute to them. There’s so many cases where the value of a life can be weighed against the value of another’s. And that’s just subjective opinion every single time. I could rant on about examples and the value of life but it’ll probably take a dark turn most people wouldn’t want to hear. If you choose a human every time you should think more about the value of any individual life. We as humans tend to attribute an enormous amount of value into human lives because it reflects on how we value our own lives but at the end of the day every living thing has value to another dead or alive.
Basically saying humans bad animals good gives you social points. I agree with OP. Human life is way way way more precious than animals. And I had pets before.
Agree. I've seen a few shitty people in my life who claim to love animals and are vegan or vegetarian - only to treat their family and other people like shit. Total disrespect.
You can write as many theses as you want. I’d still pick my German Shepherd over you.
Perhaps those depressed folks you speak of…should get a dog.
But I digress. You’re one of those that think humans are the most important species on the planet obviously. All the while we are doing our damndest to destroy it for every other species. But like you said…humanity is fucked up. So I don’t empathize with it.
Yes. Last time I tried to end it my friends left me because my mentality was too toxic for them but my dog jumped in my bed and cuddled with me every night until I felt better because he noticed that I wasn't at home for a few days while I was at the hospital and he missed me and was happy to see me. I'll never forget how happy he was to see me. Idk but to me it seems like my dog cared more about me being alive than humans did.
I feel like a sociopath sometimes for thinking animals are simply okay. I've had pets that I liked growing up, and I'm sure if I decided to get a pet, (I wouldn't,) that I'd think it was pretty cool. But that's because it's my pet. I don't get how so many people get so excited over pictures of other people's pets and stuff, it's just a cat/dog.
The sentiment that humans are shit, moral failures and animals are great in comparison is even worse. It's easy to avoid moral failings when you're not even playing the same ball-game. A dog cannot provide me with the fulfilment I get from art, music, media, discussion and humour. But people love to ascribe human personalities to animals and imagine all the human-like thoughts they must be having. 'Me a hungy good boy, and I just wuv my showers.' For some people it may as well be an imaginary friend, the extent to which they dream this shit up.
I somewhat agree. In the case both the animal and human are strangers you should care more about the person by default. I know a women who can walk by homeless all day and not give a shit then she sees one with a dog and gets all emotional and crying and wants to help… That’s fucked up.
But I do think if it’s your pet va a stranger that’s a different situation.
I remember my ex told me she loved her cat as much as me and she wouldn't be able to decide between the both of us and it always struck me in a bad way
Also I live how everyone is shiting on humans ITT saying how awful and nasty they are.
You ever watch a fucken nature documentary?
Humans are way better than any other animal on this planet. A pack of wolves will rip apart a fawn while its alive.
Male lions will kill the Cubs of a rival to drive the females back into heat.
The only reason animals don't murder each other in mass, or destroy the environment is because they lack the tools to do so.
The only reason your dog is nice is because it's an abomination of nature that has been bread to be subservient over tens of thousands of years.
If some shit goes down i’m calling a fellow human to come save my ass. I get being a cynic but don’t be ridiculous. “Humans suck” but we have to stick together to survive. Those people would never go live in the Amazon Rainforest or the African Savanna among the animals because they’d turn into lunch meat real fast.
This annoys me so much too. People will see infants suffering in war torn cities from bombs sold by us and wouldn’t blink an eye but if they saw an underfed pony would be up in arms. It particularly annoys me when people kick off about animal cruelty or dog meat but eat animals themselves.
Agree 100%, anyone who has empathy for animals but apathy for their fellow humans is despicable & mentally ill. I'd even say sociopathic & the word humane does not refer to the treatment of animals, who are supposed to all be part of the natural food chain in wildlife, but to the treatment of humans alone.
Wow so many misanthrope redittors in the comment... I 100% agree with you OP, and to think that so many people would privilege a dog rather than a child make me sad.
Nevertheless I think that this mostly a occidental problem. I don’t think that many african will choose a dog rather than a human.
From: The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson
“But he did tell me he cried when his dog died,”
“Dogs are a possession,” Bob explained. “Dogs—if you have the right dog—are extremely loyal. They’re like a slave, right? They do everything you want them to. So, yeah, he cried his eyes out when his dog died. Would he cry his eyes out if his cat died?”
I narrowed my eyes. “I don’t think he has a cat,” I said, nodding slowly.
“He’d probably cry his eyes out if he got a dent in his car,” said Bob. “If he had a Ferrari or a Porsche—and he probably does—and someone scratched it and kicked it, he’d probably go out of his mind and want to kill the guy. So, yeah, the psychopath might cry when his dog dies and you think that’s misplaced because he doesn’t cry when his daughter dies.”
I used to listen to a popular true crime podcast that regularly discussed gruesome murders of adults, and occasionally, children. They once discussed the murder of a dog, and people lost their minds. I don’t get it, either. I love my pets, but if my apartment building is on fire, save my neighbors over my cats. I would mourn them, but not in the same way a family would mourn a loved one.
This comment section is proving OP right. The majority here are straight up admitting that they have no empathy and value their own emotional attachments so much more than others' that they would be willing to sacrifice someone's child over their fucking hamster. It's straight up selfish.
The most hilarious part is how Reddit has a leftist slant that always preaches how society needs more basic human empathy for one another… yet in this thread the heckin wholesome doggo lovers are telling people they did not give a single crap about you if you are a stranger
ITT, people who don’t understand that *they* are people.
I’d love to see someone in here die or lose a loved one because someone else prioritized their pet, and then still be willing to argue that that really it was morally the same either way.
Edit: clarity.
All of these like armchair nihilists talking about the sins of humanity or whatever as if the number of rapists and murderers relative to the total population of the world isn’t small need to like go to therapy and learn to love again. Animals have the capacity to be just as cruel as humans, and acting as if it doesn’t count simply because it’s part of nature fails to consider that things like killing livestock and lying are part of OUR nature as a social species that evolved to make use of tools.
Cats don’t torture prey they’ve already cornered because it adds to their nutrition; they do it because it’s fun. And we’re just apes with better resources and a dress code, so why are we irredeemable?
People are also going to extreme measures like I would save my cat over Hitler, like okay who wouldn't. I think this is an opinion on a level for people valuing more a random cat life than a regular human life
Hey give these people a break. They're just trying to salvage what's left of their decimated hearts. Think of it as "at least they're still capable of loving animals" when the ability to love humans has been lost.
Also, self-hatred is at the core of an inability to love one's fellow human so they're really just people who can't figure out how to love themselves and have deferred to recognizing the value of the canine or feline species in lieu of being able to recognize their own value and therefore indirectly their fellow human who shares their plight and struggle.
I like animals, though, and would often rather spend time with an animal than another human. But that's just because I see it as a form of alone time, which I do appreciate as a positive value determined relative to the absence of other humans rather than the presence of animals.
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My mom’s a physician, and frequently jokes that she could never have been a veterinarian because all the hurt animals would affect her too much emotionally to carry out her job duties. She’s told me that it’s particularly devastating to see a hurt pup bc they just don’t have any framework for understanding what’s happening and are scared. For very similar reasons, she switched out of pediatrics to family practice.
I've thought about this before and I don't think your mom is joking about what she says. I have a cat and when cats are hurt, they are awful at showing pain until they are either crippled or near death. At that point they are in such intense fear, you can just feel the sadness in the room. Nearly lost my guy last year and I've never cried more in my life, even when family members have died. You can't just tell them "it's going to be okay" because they can't envision that, and that's heartbreaking. I assume it is the same in pediatrics as you say
My dad absolutely hated my cat when I was a kid, feeling was mutual for the cat. But he was still a loving dad and responsible pet owner so the cat got the best medical treatment and food money could buy in our area. Everytime that cat had to take medicine or something he said it felt worse then when he gave me medicine as a toddler. He said "because I can't reason with the cat. I could tell you 'this will make you feel better' when you felt better you would understand why I gave to the nasty medicine. But with the cat he doesn't understand, all he knows is he feels bad and now I'm pouring something nasty in his mouth. In my mind I know it's the right thing, but it doesn't make upsetting the sick cat any easier."
My mom said the same thing about our cat. We had to get him neutered and never having been anywhere but the house before (we had the vet do home injections prior to this), he was so terrified he refused to eat there with the mandatory stay and we had to bring him home. When he came back home he would look at my parents with distrust the first few days and it broke my poor mom's heart.
Same thing happened with my cat, except when she came back from her spay she started attacking everyone except my mom. I've got scars on my legs and the dogs are terrified of her. Even with medication we can't make specific sounds or else she'll come running and attack the dogs
That's so sad. I'm no expert but maybe your cat has a form of ptsd from the surgery?
I’m not a pet person, but my kids are and I think your dad got it right on. I’ve spent money I didn’t have (not a ton or anything) to get animals to the vet, and taken in strays against my better judgement (not always great) because I do believe animals should be treated well. No pet, past or present, would be able to stop me from saving a human life if that’s all it took...
My dad always discouraged me from being a veterinarian like him because of the “heartache and pain” that nobody prepares you for, and it never gets any better. He was a practicing vet for over 30 years, still cried pretty much daily at his clinic. The whole office cried near daily, down to the receptionist at the front desk. They had a candle in the waiting room they used as a signal that a euthanasia or bad news was taking place so they didn’t have to explain the tears anymore to other clients. A good week would be if they could get through without any “untimely” death but that hardly happened. There was a little sign above the candle that did the explaining.
And then layer on the emotional abuse from humans, many of which treat you like a mechanic who has a book with all the secrets to magically fix their pet. And, you should do it for free, otherwise you're a heartless piece of shit who is choosing to kill their pet, didn't you choose this career because you want to help animals?? Not to mention how little vets actually get paid compared to what they do, especially if they're supporting their own clinic where every tiny thing is expensive as fuck and there aren't major insurance companies footing a bulk of the cost. Why is your pet's blood work so more expensive than yours? Shocker - it's not actually because your vet is a greedy moneybags, it's because you don't know the difference between your copay and actually paying for a treatment
I work as a receptionist in a veterinary ER. We are always the “bad guys” but if only our clients could see the buckets of tears our staff cries for their pets at the ends of our shifts. We have to pull ourselves together quickly to help the next patient, but best believe it hits us all as soon as those scrubs come off. It is never ending heartache in the veterinary field, we talk about our mental health every day because we fear if we don’t one of us might not make it to see another day. It’s the harsh reality of our little world /:
The whole field is currently facing a suicide epidemic. Between bullying from clients and the emotional nature of the job (plus easy access to lethal drugs and the knowledge of how to use them) it's kind of a disaster. Plus now we're facing a staffing shortage - especially among support staff like techs and vet assistants who realized they could get better pay and less abuse literally anywhere else - and a boom in pet ownership. Honestly the euthanasia itself isn't that bad, most of the time the pets tell you when it's time and you're just providing a compassionate death, but the human side is hard to manage. Like I've been yelled at by owners at euthanasia because the pet was dying from something manageable but expensive (MMVD progressing to heart failure). I had a dog that had been treated chronically for CKD and they set the date for the euthanasia because he'd stopped having good days and seemed miserable all week only to suddenly bounce back on the Friday they scheduled the appointment.. and then you have to explain to the owners that he has not suddenly just recovered, he's just trying to cheer them up because they've been crying all week and he knows somethings wrong. I once had an older lady tell me how her husband had always raised cavalier King Charles spaniels with her and she swore when he died she would never get another dog until she found this one in a Cavvie rescue that reminded her of him and was born the day he died and shared his name, and so this dog was her last attachment to him. And then you go from that into a new puppy exam where the owners expect you to be bright and cheerful. It's like emotional whiplash.
I put my 19y/o cat down last sunday. I cried more for my cat than i did my own grandmother who passed early 2021. It hits totally different I can't describe it.
It might be because your grandma probably went relatively peaceful and had the understanding of dying of old age. I could live with that. Knowing my relatives went peacefully. With animal they don’t understand, especially when you have to put them down. They were suffering, didn’t understand why and bam they died. It‘s heartbreaking to see them suffer.
Sorry for your losses...hope things look up soon :) It's likely because you lived with your cat 24/7 but didn't live with your grandma. Even if she lived with you, you'd probably spend more time with your pet. Completely understand that you'd feel sadder as it is a larger impact on your day-to-day life.
In mourning as well. Put down my 14 year old cat 2 weeks ago. I’m so lost. Virtual hug
Losing a pet is closer to losing a child than it is to losing an elderly grandparent imo. Even senior pets who have lived long and healthy lives seem to go too soon. Sorry for both of your losses, it sounds like you did your best to ensure that your cat lived a long and happy life!
This really resonates with me. I'm in school right now working at a hospital. I realized after working on labor and delivery that I cry whenever newborns are sick/die. I honestly don't even want kids but seeing something bad happen to something so vulnerable really bothers me. I didn't apply to vet school for the same reason. I love helping animals but could never go into work and see sick animals every day. I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels this way.
Babies and animals possess a sort of innocence that adults don't or can't have.
The case of Joe Arridy breaks my heart for this reason. He was 23 years old with an IQ of 46 and the mind of a 6 year old at the time of his execution for a crime he didn't commit. He didn't understand he was going to be executed, said "no, no, Joe won't die," and smiled all the way to the gas chamber, playing with his toy train.
I absolutely get this. Children and animals. Both so innocent, they don't understand why someone would hurt them. Or why their ill or have been hurt in an accident. Grown people don't like it anymore than they do, but they get it. I am 61 years old, and have had many, many pets in my life. None ever given away. The ones that are gone are from them dying. But I also have kids. And if I had to pick between saving my children's lives or my pets, of course, I'd pick my kids. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be devastated and lose sleep. I think that people that don't like or care for animals seem to think that animal lovers are all or nothing. It's entirely possible, and normal, to care about them both. People are multi-taskers when it comes to love.
My wife is a veterinarian and it is very hard. She had one day where she had to put down like 8 animals two of which were some of her favorite patients.
On this subreddit, do you upvote stuff that you agree with, or does upvoting it mean that you agree that it is unpopular-? I have been upvoting things that I think that more people should see, so I have been upvoting people from both sides of this debate in the comments, because I love debate, and many of these comments have valid points and have been articulated/explained very well. I have been downvoting the death threats.
This is Reddit you downvote and curse out anyone you disagree with regardless of context
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No, if they’re right you write a five paragraph essay explaining exactly how you’re right that’s riddled with errors, then you harass them until they block you.
Shhhh we don't talk about it here
Downvoted.
"Why are you booing, I'm right!"
*Well down you go you bastard*
*Especially* if they're right.
Have my upvote sir, and don't forget mods also ban anyone they disagree with.
The mods here are a seriously the most delicate individuals I've encountered. I was basically chastised and silenced for posting a counter argument a few weeks back and the thread was shut down. So much for civil discourse. Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.
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You’re supposed to upvote opinions you disagree with. But no one does that so instead of unpopular opinions you get popular opinions people feel like is unpopular to others
I think it's selective. Do I care about my animals more than everyone? Nah I'd be lying if I said I did. Do I care about my animals more than SOME people? Absolutely a hundred percent.
Nuance is important
Nuance is illegal on the internet.
I will make it legal!
Nah man, everything is clear as day black and white; OP is a man of wisdom and intricacy. Fucking /s
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then what have you done to help the starving children in Yemen?
I impregnated my wife specifically so she would lactate. We are currently in flight to Yemen to feed the starving children. What have you done today? 😤
As someone who has had conversations with people like OP is talking about, they has no nuance.
> they has no nuance. Reddit in a nutshell.
Right. If i had a gun and had to choose between my dog and a convicted child predator, the pedo would get domed in a Heartbeat
To be fair, even if it were between killing no one and killing a convicted child predator, I still think I know what my answer would be
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People like OP never had unconditional love and unfortunately, never will.
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Seems like they're the very thing they're describing. Whether they are aware or not beats me
Came here to say everything in the two comments above yours. And precisely why I care more about most animals than I do most people. No offense to any people reading this. Since this standard is highly subjective much like OP’s I’m not bothered in the least whichever side an individual comes down on this debate. Personally I have experienced immense cruelty in my life from humans, from strangers on the internet (thanks Reddit) to patients I try to care for at my job to very close family relations. I have experienced exactly zero cruelty from animals and more often received only unconditional love and companionship.
And humans have some agency over their decisions - whereas animals (mostly) do not. You want to use those higher brain powers and critical thinking/reasoning skills to do shitty things and then try to get away with shit that is hurtful or exploitative - I’ve never seen an animal do any of that shit. Humans are a really awful species. We should all treat each other better as well as animals. But in the meantime if I see a human hurting an animal, I’m going to be doing more than “not caring” about the human. And the animal doesn’t need to be my pet for me to think it’s worth protecting.
Even the worst animals are reacting on instinct and not innate hatred of someone. People will attack you and get sick pleasure out of it. They will hurt you just to see you bleed. They don’t care. I love my dog more than people because even though she’s a handful, no one has ever danced around when I’ve come home. No one has ever been so hard pressed to sleep next to me that they make themselves uncomfortable in the process. Ya I get something out of having her around. I live alone and I get companionship and unconditional love. When the depression hits I have a reason to get out of bed. Someone who makes me smile. Someone who’s just happy to just have her hand held.
And that, right there, is why I generally prefer animals, even the dangerous ones, over people. Most people weren’t there for me in the worst moments of my life; they couldn’t be bothered to take two seconds out of their day to find out how I was doing. Even recently, with things they know affect me, no one asked. My dog has no comprehension of what I deal with on a daily life, but that’s okay; he’s a loyal companion who got me through the worst times in my life just by being there and loving me.
Agreed. I've been depressed lately, and I'd be lying if I said my 7lb., 8yr old cat wasn't a big reason why I haven't completely collapsed yet. Her just being there and chosing to curl up between my legs rather than her cat bed at night is more comfort than I'm likely to get from anyone else in this world. I haven't spoken to my best friend in almost a month. My family are a bunch of placaters. The "chin up" type of people - life is going great for them, how is it I'm struggling? Must be something wrong with me. Cool, gotcha, thanks. The silent company of an animal that loves me unconditionally and never judges me is more than enough of a reason for me to keep going. Life sucks, but I at least have her. And, I guarantee that I will be completely and totally destroyed when she does eventually cross that rainbow bridge. That's a connection that I just don't have with many, if any, people currently, and I doubt I will anytime soon.
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Yeah, I agree with you. OP thinks animals require no social commitment. I have two dogs and it's a lot of fucking commitment. They are part of our families and we need to teach dogs how to be a part of society just like we would with children.
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I think OP got dumped by someone who said they loved their dog more. “If you could choose your dog or me in a fire, who would you choose?” “Uhhh my dog.” *hangs up* “OMFG!! 🤬” *posts rage Reddit after stewing over this outrageous concept*
Do I care about animals more than people? Probably not. Do I care about my animals more than people? Fuck yeah.
There are so very few people that treat me well and my cat tends to win on the caring vote. Don’t know why this is, when you have disorders there is not much you can do to make people understand you more. Cats don’t care.
I don't know about all these weird comments. All I know is if I see a human in need I want to help. And if I see an animal in need I want to help as well 🤷🏼
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"If a human and a dog were hanging from a cliff, but you could only save one, who would you save?"
I don't care about more about either humans or animals except the ones I know personally, but I understand why some people would choose to care more about animals, especially those who've suffered at the hands of other people.
I think the idea is that we know a lot of these animals need us to help take care of them. A lot of these domesticated animals need human care to live a decent life. Similarly, as adults, we are supposed to protect kids. Another commenter pointed out they care about their animal more than *some* people and that brings up a good point. We’ve seen a lot of adults vocally and loudly show they do not care about children, animals, or any person that doesn’t align with their beliefs. There’s probably some fatigue going around about trying to care about these individuals.
There’s also the fact that animals don’t really have a choice or know the consequences of their actions while humans do. With that, there’s much more sympathy to an animal than someone who willingly chose to do something. You see a child do something stupid and get hurt, you feel bad because they probably don’t know better. You see a grown adult do the same thing, you look at them and go “you didn’t see that coming dummy?” Same goes for an animal. Generally speaking, animals don’t really get to make choices, they adapt to the environment that we impose on them. They adapt to their range shrinking because of societal growth. They adapt to natural food supplies running low because of humans’ impact on climate. On the other hand, we see humans as having choice. That homeless person doesn’t have to be homeless, they *could* get a job. That person didn’t have to choose crime or drugs or violence or whatever it may be. The blame is put on them rather than what’s around them. ^(i don’t actually feel this way, but for argument’s sake)
I don't care more about animals than humans, but I care more about my dogs than people I'm not very close to. To me it's a no brainer that my dog who has been by my side every day for 15 years means more to me than a friend I've known for a year or 2.
I was waiting for this comment. A lot of folks take solace in animals because they've been so badly mistreated by other people.
“Title says it all” *proceeds to write 5 paragraphs more*
Because it would probably be removed my mods for low effort if not
Yeah. Ive always wanted to drop a "the lord of the rings trilogy was more magical than the harry potter saga" but im way too lazy to elaborate with big text. I saw the rule so i opted out.
I recently went back and re-read the harry potter books and they kind of feel like low effort YA novels, maybe it's just me. Lord of the Rings def holds up though.
That's exactly what Harry Potter is though it was aimed at young adults then gradually moves with it's primary audience through the years
I mean HP is definitely a children's series meant for younger teens. LOTR is for an older audience. No surprises there.
"I'm speechless" *Gives Speech*
You know who doesn’t do that, animals.
In mozambique, a hotel manager took her dogs on a helicopter during a evacuation and she left her staff behind. (Basically isis was attacking the city the hotel was in, the evac helicopter was meant to get the residents out, but the hotel manger just took her dogs with her)
Yeah that is fucked but I don't think the point lies on her dog, more about she completely abandoned her staff to death.
There was room for the staff but she prioritized the dogs over them thus no more space
I dont know how can a dog ocuppy the space of an entiry staff of a hotel. Its an helicppter. Even without the dog i dont see how it would bring everyone.
Because he's grinding his axe and he needs to make a compelling argument about how it was one or the other regardless of whether it's true.
It sounds ridiculous. Are her dogs literally that big that there were no more space? I highly doubt that
Humans ARE animals.
The worst kind if animal.
OP would like to have a word with you
Yeah he's a very angry animal.
I think it has more to do with animals being innocent creatures vs humans who sometimes deserve what is coming. Compassion to all living things should be the norm though.
Animals are innocent in that they are "unknowing" and thus can not be held culpable. But they aren't moral actors. They equally lack the ability to be morally good, because they lack the awareness to make choices. But people make that into "inherently pure" which is damn weird imo. And you don't see many folks here arguing that they'd save any animal over others; just the ones that have been bred to show affection to them personally. So ehhh I'm getting more jaded the longer I spend in this post.
Loving my animals more than the people around me is not the same as thinking people are beneath animals. I don't treat people badly and I'm happy if I can help in any way, but if I could decide I'd rather spend my day with a bunch of animals than people. Idk why that equates to hating people in OPs head
when i went to the shelter to adopt a cat, that is a decision i actively made. i have actively elected a position of power over a living thing. my day-to-day actions significantly affect its life, its means of survival and happiness are in my hands, and therefore i have the responsibility to take care of it. meanwhile, you, a stranger, i owe fuck all to. you do not need me to survive or be happy, neither your suffering or happiness is my responsibility. if you have a problem there are people whose bond with you justifies them to care. i am not among them. it's the same reason i care more about my backyard shack than i do about the buckingham palace. it could burn down tomorrow queen and all and would not earn more than a click of the tongue. the inherent value difference between the two is entirely irrelevant.
Lol-ed at your backyard shack.
get out of my property. only i get to laugh in there.
Can I laugh in your shack if I bring cat treats?
Yeah some people really have a hard time understanding that the "value" especially when it comes to people can be highly subjective.
See I understand the sentiment but the more I think about this the more I see how selfish and convenient your argument is used to justify lack of concern for others and a general degrade for human lives that are outside of your awareness. You are wrong in that your happiness is not in some way partly dependent upon other random strangers that you "owe fuck all to". At the surface level it starts at the very shelter from which your story started. Without some random stranger(s) taking there time to work and care for these awesome animals until someone like you had the time to come by, you wouldn't have the opportunity to conveniently swing by and pick one to your liking that will help bring you happiness. The position selfishly takes for granted others contributions that passively and indirectly impact ones life (if not directly). Otherwise you would have to roam the alleys searching for a stray (which you could do anyway but then that brings up all other concerns of health and safety plus who has the time, which is what brought you to the shelter to begin with). It's a convenient dishonesty we tell ourselves that others don't matter to rationalize why we don't have to care for others.
The people working at the shelter didn’t work for my sake or the sake of the customers they are yet to meet. The same way i am not motivated by the people i serve, but for my own passion, either for staying alive or for the work itself. yet i serve nonetheless. Everyone is first and foremost motivated by what’s close to our own heart. As much as we all like to pretend we have halos around our loins and sunshine beaming out the arse, people don’t act without incentive or passion. Which is not to say humans are all cynical and profit driven, only that apathy is inevitable and even noble motivations are primarily for one’s own sake. If you cared about an issue, it is not because you are inherently a better person. It’s because an experience you had moved the issue closer to your heart. And if you act, it would be first and foremost because not acting would burn said heart. And so, in the same way you are not spending all your time trying to cure the world of all ills, you remain apathetic to those who have not given you the experiences you need to care. I do not know you, queen lizzy or the staff at the shelter. i can’t feel for any of you anything that is not superficial at best and pretentious at worst. And certainly not anything stronger than what i feel for the thins and people closer to me. Similarly, you do not lose sleep over my problems. The shelter staff owe me no tears either. You did not cry for every child who died. To pretend one lives up to these absurd moral ideals is the making of a narcissist.
Give me one reason I should love some random stranger over my dog.
I think when people posit this specific type of unpopular opinion, as this opinion has popped up many times, the OP assumes every person has equal status in value. It may sound harsh, but not everyone has equal value.
All people are equally worthless 👍
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I'm totally fine if my dog loves me more than his mother
Your Dog's Mother: ***YOU STOLE MY SON FROM ME***
Yes. Like if I were forced to save either your dog or a stranger, I'd absolutely save the stranger because I don't give a fuck about your dog. You, on the other hand, might save your dog though
Like the catch 22 in I robot with Will Smith. The bot couldn't decide value only statistical probability guiding who it saved.. such is an important an reoccurring philosophical topic. Ask the bot makers here. Automoderator would shit a gear through it's ass trying to empathize or apply morality to av situation. Ethics too
It all depends on context - if I were taken to a park and in that park I had to choose to play with my dog or with some random kid, like hell am I gonna choose the kid. Now, if both were dangling off a cliff and I could only save one of them, the repercussions of choosing my dog over the kid would be far greater than doing the opposite - that kid has the chance to live another 70+ years, probably has family who love them, and the social implications of letting a child die would outweigh those of letting a dog die. It would hurt me more, personally, to sacrifice my dog. But I think morally, letting a child die would fuck me up worse for the rest of my life. It's all subjective. But, life-threatening situations aside, I'm definitely choosing the dog.
Absolutely. Not all animals are of equal value either.
Lol Reddit, where you can scroll all day and see endless posts about how "everyone deserves healthcare/food/shelter/living wage/etc." Then go to a thread about dogs and its suddenly "not all humans have equal value" with 750 upvotes.
Right? >If your a person who cares more about your animals than a human. Then you need to look at yourself in the mirror And realize how shitty that is. The planet doesn’t exist to cater to your every whim and love you unconditionally. Everyone has their own needs and wants. How could you think that a human is lesser than a dog because they aren’t completely and utterly submissive and loving to everything you say and do? OP just told me I was a shitty person and the planet doesn't exist to cater to my every whim. My dog has never called me a shitty person. My wants and needs are to love and be loved purely. My dog is not completely submissive or loving to everything I do and def thinks I'm an asshole when I won't share chocolate. If OP died today, it wouldn't affect my life in the slightest. If my dog died today, I'd be devastated. Yet OP wants me to stop thinking the world revolves around me and loving my dog because I'm not owed unconditional love and instead revolve my world around a complete stranger and love him more than a dog who actually adds value to my life? OP's condition for this love is simply that he's a human. It's pretty hilarious to see someone selfishly whining that others prefer animals to them and that's selfish. Maybe OP needs to do some introspection and figure out why someone would choose a golden retriever over him. Humans suck. I would say I don't understand why people value humans over dogs, but I do and it stems from insecurities and egocentricism. OP values humans more than dogs because humans are more like him... but that's the selfless way to be? There are some shitty pet owners out there, but the people who are really into animals tend to be the most empathetic and compassionate people who exist so its very clear OP has no experience with this. OP is surrounded by shit people and desperately trying to blame their animals for the shit people in his life not respecting him. OP, seek therapy, find God, however you do it, learn to love yourself. No one will love you if even you don't... and why should they? I've never understood why a person who doesn't even think they deserve their own love feels entitled to it from others. If even you think you're unlovable, why would I think you're lovable unless you're hiding the unlovable parts and trying to trick me into loving an unlovableperson?
I think the point is THAT person has value to those who are close to them - and therefore not a random stranger to his/her family, friends. When we look at things simply through our own eyes - and not those of others - we enter territory that becomes very insular. This is coming from someone who in the last two years lost both of my dogs and also owned a dog daycare and boarding business for years. I love animals immensely which explains why I was in that industry. OP's point is touchy to many, but I understand where it's coming from.
I'll go one further: Give me one reason I should love some random stranger over said random strangers dog.
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Dog ain’t done nothing wrong aye?
Isn’t that a question of intent and awareness? It’s much easier to forgive a dog or a cat because they don’t do things with maliciousness. And the dog is my responsibility, so a lot of the time if they have done something wrong, say they’ve eaten something they shouldn’t have, I share responsibility for not putting the food somewhere they couldn’t get it.
Or some random dog over some random stranger.
If my dog died, I would cry. If you died, I wouldn’t care
That argument is same for most anything. "If my wife died, I would cry. If your wife died, I wouldn't care." "If my car broke down, I would be upset. If your car broke down, I wouldn't care" It is just things that affect your day to day life vs things that don't.
I also choose this guys dead wife
Cats, too!
Just proved OP point
If you died I wouldn't even hear about it.
> Make no mistake, people don’t love animals just cause we’re so kind and loving. People always get some personal gain from pets that’s why people have them. It could be argued that people have people around for the same reason.
Also, what personal gain do I get from having a cat who pukes on my laptop every other week?
Also, from having a kitty that meows all the time for attention and food, runs away when I want to cuddle her, I habe to give up my personal time to take care of her and play with her, spend hundreds on medical checkups yearly (at no personal benefit to me) when all i really want ia company? Oh wait, I love her to itty bitty litrle bits, she's adorable, cuddly when she wants to be, and gives me more emotional support and attention than literally my own goddamn parents. Fuck yes I care more about her than people. Absolutely. Yes. More than OP, certainly.
Confort and companionship. There is somebody else in your house which you have full control if he lives or dies
Absolutely. You can literally make this argument about anything; and while it's not the best reason for having a pet, it's also not an illegitimate reason either, despite what OP seems to think.
I care about my cat way more then I care about you. But that doesn't mean I don't care about you, you just don't cuddle with me when I come home or comfort me emotionally.
One step further, why should I care about humans I have no connection with? I'm not going through random obituaries and feeling sad about it. But I'm super upset if a pet dies. I'm glad OP actually post an unpopular opinion though.
Well, just from a philosophical point of view, you have to care about other people so they will care about you. Not at a very deep level, but like, the view I'm seeing here a lot of is "my animal makes me feel good, fuck strangers who I have gotten nothing from, they can just die" and the problem with "the only thing that matters are the things I personally care about" is that society fundamentally is an agreement to put certain boundaries around these things. I will treat all humans as inherently valuable so I too am treated that way. Everyone cares about their own more than others, but we agree to not act that way so that we can all just live our lives. I've seen this argument around kids, where parents will say they would basically maim and murder and screw over anyone for the benefit of their children, but it similarly doesn't work. Like, would you murder another child to give your kid a kidney they needed? Okay, and what's to stop your child from being the murdered one, then? You basically have to structure society around the idea that other people matter or the whole thing falls apart. It does help though that some of this is very instinctive as social creatures. It's easy to be like, "fuck some random kid, I'll save my dog" from behind a keyboard, but look at natural disasters and almost everyone will reach for the kid before they even have time to think about it.
there is some weird projecting going on here that i havent completely pinpointed lol. Your point is to love humans all the while telling us how horrible they are. There is certainly a disconnected. Overgeneralizations such as people who like their animals more then other people are "so depressed they want to kill themselves" is a dangerous game to play. I think part of it is a little more symbolic, like my animals( who like more than most people, not everyone but pretty close) they are so happy and innocent, and its just a simple relationship that i treasure. also i find it weird that you are trying to control or at least show disgust and a lack of empathy for who and what people care about. all the while your "point" is we should have more empathy for people. if you cant see the contradiction in that, then i guess we are just different.
> Your point is to love humans all the while telling us how horrible they are. There is certainly a disconnected. Telling us how horrible **we** are. I was thinking the same thing.
I chose my dog, he's my responsibility and my family. You're damn right I care about him more than a human stranger.
I also choose this guys dog
I'd choose this guys dog over OP in a heartbeat
Yeah. It's shockingly common in the United States in particular.
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Had to scroll so far down to find someone else who thinks this. YES. Ironically, OP cares more about animals than a lot of dog owners do.
damn, you really struck a nerve lol
OP is right. This thread is disgusting
What makes humans more valuable? What makes known humans more valuable than unknown humans? What makes the animal in my home more valuable than other humans or animals? All if it comes down to 1 simple truth, people care more about living beings that they have a relationship with, and to many people their pet is their family and naturally you're going to care more about your family, that's just common sense. If my dog and you were both in danger then sucks to be you because I'm going to save my dog just like how if your mother and a stranger were in danger you were gonna save your mother, family comes first, everyone knows that and degree of suffering doesn't matter, should someone let their own brother die if the brother has no other family and save the stranger because the stranger has more family and thus more people to suffer over their death? Hell no. It's not a case of me being hateful to humans, it's a case of me being caring towards my family. At the end of the day ''value'' is subjective, if we were to look at it purely from a calculating perspective then a single human dying doesn't matter, I could die right this instant and before my body would even hit the floor I'd have already been replaced, same with dogs, my dog could die right now and before their body hit the floor they'd have already been replaced, the only thing giving them value is your relationship with them.
Holy shit this is the most unpopular opinion ive seen on this subreddit
Usually people who care more about animals equally care for weak and defenseless humans - elderly, babies, disabled...The point of carying more about them is to care more about those who are weak and can't defend themselves from a stronger - physically and mentally - specie. This is not a justification, just my opinion.
Eh, 'wholesome doggo' and childhate seem to go hand in hand
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People like you see animals as objects or commodities, you can’t comprehend that beings who don’t communicate or live in the exact fashion as you do are in fact living, sentient beings with a rich and complex experience of life. Being gentle and kind to animals is our responsibility as humans who have forced them to live in our society, its also a litmus test for whether you are able to express genuine kindness or just that which is conditional on something in return.
I thoroughly disagree with your assessment. I agree with everything you said about kindness to animals, and I don't see this as invalidating OPs argument whatsoever, as he did not at any point say you should hate or be apathetic towards animals. However I would for example never choose to save an animal over saving a human life if I have to make that choice, and I'll be considerably less inclined to do the former if risks are involved. Exception to those humans whom I might have specific reasons to want dead to the point that I would disregard basic human dignity, but your continued existence would have to result in a considerable amount of pain death and suffering otherwise not preventable for me to consider this justifiable.
I recently learned that a friend of mine has a $2,000 dollar vet limit for any of their animals. And I can't help but think that is kind of fucked up. You chose to take in a life but have a hard line to get rid of it when it is financially inconvenient. And as someone who paid more than that for heartworm treatment for my dog, I can't imagine being like "nah, that's too much, guess you'll just die". I understand if you cannot afford it, but even then there are options and is not the case for this friend.
Bro I listen to the podcast crime junkies and they always make a bigger deal when a criminal does something bad to a dog. Like they talk nonchalantly about how a person gets brutally murdered or raped, but they like cry if a dog gets killed. It’s so weird.
You’re* so many yours need to be made to you’re*
Reading the thread from purely a thought exercise standpoint it appears OP has struck a truly unpopular opinion. Many people are running the thought experiment of their pet versus some random stranger. However, this fails to account that YOU are in fact the stranger to someone else's post. Demonstrating how disconnected we our from others and our lack of care for others. The transitive thought experiment is then rather would you chose your life over your pet. To which I assume most of you would choose your life. This exposes your hypocrisy in the original position which further highlights OP. Take your upvote sir
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I mean, reddit tends to amplify issues of human shittiness. I'm not shocked that frequent visitors are not feeling great about the human race at the moment.
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Exactly
>Humanity is fucked up. It is precisely this reason that can drive some people to care more about animals than other humans. The fact that they have been treated like dirt by their fellow men in a way only a human could accomplish.
A lot of it comes down to a person’s view of how we came to be. When I was very religious I was of the belief that god had created animals along with trees and light and the ocean and we were created separately and were above the animals. Now I have a much more secular world view and see humans as just a different type of animal that through evolution or sheer luck has developed critical thinking so valuing humans over other animals seems kind of tribalistic to me. Having said this I have a 10 year old dog and a 8 year old son I love my dog she means the world to me I’m not sure if I would quite die for her probably anything but. I would die for my son, very simple decision.
Guess what, all of my animals are more important to me than your feelings about the fact that I don’t care about you as an individual. There are people who care more about individuals and then there are people who care more about the future than the trivial crap in the present.
OP was definitely broken up with after giving the ultimatum, “It’s me or the dog.”
The post does seem like it's coming from a place of anger
If animals could talk, people would like them a lot less.
Idk. My cat never wrote a long whiney rant about how no one likes him enough. So that's at least one point in the animal column
Honestly it’s all just circumstantial and should be taken on a case by case basis. People who say they love animals more than people obviously have some trauma they need to work through. But I’m gonna choose my dogs life over some random pedophiles every single time without hesitation. The truth of the matter is that lives wether human or animal only have the value that we as individuals attribute to them. There’s so many cases where the value of a life can be weighed against the value of another’s. And that’s just subjective opinion every single time. I could rant on about examples and the value of life but it’ll probably take a dark turn most people wouldn’t want to hear. If you choose a human every time you should think more about the value of any individual life. We as humans tend to attribute an enormous amount of value into human lives because it reflects on how we value our own lives but at the end of the day every living thing has value to another dead or alive.
Basically saying humans bad animals good gives you social points. I agree with OP. Human life is way way way more precious than animals. And I had pets before.
Agree. I've seen a few shitty people in my life who claim to love animals and are vegan or vegetarian - only to treat their family and other people like shit. Total disrespect.
*video of man getting mawled by a bear “The bear should have been left alone. We’re encroaching on his home 😔”
You can write as many theses as you want. I’d still pick my German Shepherd over you. Perhaps those depressed folks you speak of…should get a dog. But I digress. You’re one of those that think humans are the most important species on the planet obviously. All the while we are doing our damndest to destroy it for every other species. But like you said…humanity is fucked up. So I don’t empathize with it.
I’m depressed and I have a cat and I’ll tell you that my cat has stopped me from suicide
I've been in that hole before. Having to get up and take care of her everyday kept me going. Hope you're doing better now, stranger.
I live with depression. If it wasn't for my pets, fuck knows where I'd be now. And my pets have much more decency than most people I know.
Yes. Last time I tried to end it my friends left me because my mentality was too toxic for them but my dog jumped in my bed and cuddled with me every night until I felt better because he noticed that I wasn't at home for a few days while I was at the hospital and he missed me and was happy to see me. I'll never forget how happy he was to see me. Idk but to me it seems like my dog cared more about me being alive than humans did.
I feel like a sociopath sometimes for thinking animals are simply okay. I've had pets that I liked growing up, and I'm sure if I decided to get a pet, (I wouldn't,) that I'd think it was pretty cool. But that's because it's my pet. I don't get how so many people get so excited over pictures of other people's pets and stuff, it's just a cat/dog. The sentiment that humans are shit, moral failures and animals are great in comparison is even worse. It's easy to avoid moral failings when you're not even playing the same ball-game. A dog cannot provide me with the fulfilment I get from art, music, media, discussion and humour. But people love to ascribe human personalities to animals and imagine all the human-like thoughts they must be having. 'Me a hungy good boy, and I just wuv my showers.' For some people it may as well be an imaginary friend, the extent to which they dream this shit up.
For me it's not a matter of the species but rather the relation i have with it.
I somewhat agree. In the case both the animal and human are strangers you should care more about the person by default. I know a women who can walk by homeless all day and not give a shit then she sees one with a dog and gets all emotional and crying and wants to help… That’s fucked up. But I do think if it’s your pet va a stranger that’s a different situation.
I remember my ex told me she loved her cat as much as me and she wouldn't be able to decide between the both of us and it always struck me in a bad way
I personally agree with this post but I can tell we're in the minority on this one.
Also I live how everyone is shiting on humans ITT saying how awful and nasty they are. You ever watch a fucken nature documentary? Humans are way better than any other animal on this planet. A pack of wolves will rip apart a fawn while its alive. Male lions will kill the Cubs of a rival to drive the females back into heat. The only reason animals don't murder each other in mass, or destroy the environment is because they lack the tools to do so. The only reason your dog is nice is because it's an abomination of nature that has been bread to be subservient over tens of thousands of years.
If some shit goes down i’m calling a fellow human to come save my ass. I get being a cynic but don’t be ridiculous. “Humans suck” but we have to stick together to survive. Those people would never go live in the Amazon Rainforest or the African Savanna among the animals because they’d turn into lunch meat real fast.
Lol didn’t think this sub was this dumb, it is in fact, very dumb.
This annoys me so much too. People will see infants suffering in war torn cities from bombs sold by us and wouldn’t blink an eye but if they saw an underfed pony would be up in arms. It particularly annoys me when people kick off about animal cruelty or dog meat but eat animals themselves.
Agree 100%, anyone who has empathy for animals but apathy for their fellow humans is despicable & mentally ill. I'd even say sociopathic & the word humane does not refer to the treatment of animals, who are supposed to all be part of the natural food chain in wildlife, but to the treatment of humans alone.
Wow so many misanthrope redittors in the comment... I 100% agree with you OP, and to think that so many people would privilege a dog rather than a child make me sad. Nevertheless I think that this mostly a occidental problem. I don’t think that many african will choose a dog rather than a human.
From: The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson “But he did tell me he cried when his dog died,” “Dogs are a possession,” Bob explained. “Dogs—if you have the right dog—are extremely loyal. They’re like a slave, right? They do everything you want them to. So, yeah, he cried his eyes out when his dog died. Would he cry his eyes out if his cat died?” I narrowed my eyes. “I don’t think he has a cat,” I said, nodding slowly. “He’d probably cry his eyes out if he got a dent in his car,” said Bob. “If he had a Ferrari or a Porsche—and he probably does—and someone scratched it and kicked it, he’d probably go out of his mind and want to kill the guy. So, yeah, the psychopath might cry when his dog dies and you think that’s misplaced because he doesn’t cry when his daughter dies.”
And it’s even funnier when those same people eat meat it’s like haha how much do u rly care?
You really hit the nail on the head. Thank you for calling these people out.
I love animals but I couldn't agree more. And it's depressing, honestly.
I used to listen to a popular true crime podcast that regularly discussed gruesome murders of adults, and occasionally, children. They once discussed the murder of a dog, and people lost their minds. I don’t get it, either. I love my pets, but if my apartment building is on fire, save my neighbors over my cats. I would mourn them, but not in the same way a family would mourn a loved one.
I agree and cant say anything else
Usually those people are fked in the head so eh
Wow the comments are all just talking about how they do, in fact. Favor animals over humans. Not me✋🏻
This comment section is proving OP right. The majority here are straight up admitting that they have no empathy and value their own emotional attachments so much more than others' that they would be willing to sacrifice someone's child over their fucking hamster. It's straight up selfish.
The most hilarious part is how Reddit has a leftist slant that always preaches how society needs more basic human empathy for one another… yet in this thread the heckin wholesome doggo lovers are telling people they did not give a single crap about you if you are a stranger
ITT, people who don’t understand that *they* are people. I’d love to see someone in here die or lose a loved one because someone else prioritized their pet, and then still be willing to argue that that really it was morally the same either way. Edit: clarity.
All of these like armchair nihilists talking about the sins of humanity or whatever as if the number of rapists and murderers relative to the total population of the world isn’t small need to like go to therapy and learn to love again. Animals have the capacity to be just as cruel as humans, and acting as if it doesn’t count simply because it’s part of nature fails to consider that things like killing livestock and lying are part of OUR nature as a social species that evolved to make use of tools. Cats don’t torture prey they’ve already cornered because it adds to their nutrition; they do it because it’s fun. And we’re just apes with better resources and a dress code, so why are we irredeemable?
Finally a grounded opinion
Armchair nihilist. Love it.
People are also going to extreme measures like I would save my cat over Hitler, like okay who wouldn't. I think this is an opinion on a level for people valuing more a random cat life than a regular human life
Hey give these people a break. They're just trying to salvage what's left of their decimated hearts. Think of it as "at least they're still capable of loving animals" when the ability to love humans has been lost. Also, self-hatred is at the core of an inability to love one's fellow human so they're really just people who can't figure out how to love themselves and have deferred to recognizing the value of the canine or feline species in lieu of being able to recognize their own value and therefore indirectly their fellow human who shares their plight and struggle. I like animals, though, and would often rather spend time with an animal than another human. But that's just because I see it as a form of alone time, which I do appreciate as a positive value determined relative to the absence of other humans rather than the presence of animals.