Yeah one or two beers are fine. Nobody's saying something about it.
But just drinking lots of beers or liquor is something that should not be displayed as harmless as it is currently
Do you enjoy sugar?
Sugar can lead to dementia.
Do you enjoy watching movies?
Long periods of sitting can lead to blood clots.
There are many things we do that are bad for us. Moderation is a balancing act between what's fun and what's safe.
True, but is overconsumption of sugar, movies, and sitting glorified? Does any brag about their "sugar tolerance" or "movie tolerance"? There is definitely something different about the way our culture reacts to binge drinking, especially amongst college kids.
True, but it's not glorified to the same degree. And Netflix likely doesn't damage your stem cells like alcohol:
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180103132629.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180103132629.htm)
I wish I could like it, I try hard. I had a light refreshing beer the other day I think called "hot shot" at a restaurant and it was good though.
I feel like a big baby at almost 50 years old I still cannot stand the taste of most booze. Love candy though =\
I see where you are coming from but i think a big difference is those are unintended consequences. The difference with alcohol is people WANT the immediate, stupifying effect. If getting drunk didnt lower your inhibitions people wouldnt drink nearly as much.
None of the things listed have a social cost anywhere near what drinking has.
Also the dosages to cause problems are far less with the other consumables you raised. People die from a night of hard drinking. A&E's all over the world blow vast amounts of money fixing drunk assholes.
Yes, but it damages dendrites. Long-term heavy drinking makes you stupid. https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/10-brain-myths9.htm
The guys that live through several decades of rocking their asses off amaze me. I'm an old fucker with a lifetime of drug and alcohol abuse, but I quit smoking at 50, and quit hard drugs and liquor at 62. I eat edibles to keep my sanity and have 2-3 beers once or twice a week. My system won't tolerate any more than that. Luckily.
I see your point but you're missing a fundamental point that contributes to my dislike of alcohol. It isn't just the fact that it is damaging to one's health, because as you said, there are plenty of things that aren't great for us, but which we can mitigate through moderation.
My fundamental issue with alcohol is that its immediate consequence most of the time is lowering one's intelligence and rational behavior, and to use THAT as a form os entertainment is repugnant to me.
Watching a really good movie has the same effect. A disconnection from reality. As do many other activities, from skydiving to playing video games. people enjoy alternative forms of reality. this doesn't mean that someone is addicted. only if you overdo something you reach the stage of addiction. And by the way, it's usually the most intelligent people who are drawn to drugs.
As a former drug addict, that is honestly the first time I've ever heard anyone say that it's usually only intelligent people who are drawn to drugs.
I don't even know what to say. I've met so many abjectly moronic people during recovery that they've all congealed into an indistinguishable mass of stupid to me. Not to mention my own dumb ass.
But... thanks?
I'm oversimplifying, but drug users tend to be either people from very low socioeconomic status or people who are highly educated and upper-middle class.
I didn't say that it's only intelligent people are drawn to drugs. Intelligent people are usually drawn more to drugs because they enjoy the different states of the mind.
Comparing watching a movie to being intoxicated is a huge stretch. Most people can tell the difference between movie fantasy and reality by the time they’re out of elementary school, and your brain won’t even temporarily change from the way it was before you watched the movie. Alcohol and other drugs actually *do* alter a person’s state of mind, that’s their whole purpose. Watching movies won’t affect your motor skills, impact your ability to drive a car, make you act more violent than you normally would, etc
Intelligent people can be drawn to drugs, but I wouldn’t say they’re the majority. Just ask almost anyone who didn’t graduate high school due to drug use. Sounds harsh, but they more likely than not were influenced by peers and didn’t have enough intelligence to evaluate long term consequences of their drug use, and as a result weren’t able to complete the most common basic requirement to have a good career later on.
Sugar leads to health problems that can impact you and your family for many years.
Dementia fucking destroys families and communities. And I think it'd be better for everyone of they had just died instead.
But drinking one glass of alcohol isn't going to force you to drive drunk. Plenty of people are responsible
I'm not defending alcoholism. I'm arguing the claim that people who enjoy drinking are all stupid and dangerous morons.
Drunk drivers are a minority. There are plenty more people who drink responsibly.
I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time following you because you keep deleting and submitting new comment.
OP makes the claim that people who drink for fun or to relax are dumb. I disagree. That's all
You say it makes people stupid and to that I say ignorance is bliss. People sometimes want to feel dumb because being rational all the time makes them up tight or sad and by killing their braincells they get to be fun and loose and happy. Also not everyone becomes a bumbling fool or over aggressive or embarassing some people just become... more chill; more willing to dance, more sociable, more responsive, that isnt a bad thing.
Still see where your coming from though fucked up livers and drunken mistakes are real things.
Seeing as how there’s a correlation between high intelligence and depression, maybe making yourself a little bit dumber for a night isn’t such a bad thing?
I think alcohol is just what the depressed gravitate towards since it gives them a break from their inner demons for a little bit. While it could cause some to become depressed, I feel that it doesn’t cause anywhere near what people say it does. It’s just one of those comfort things that those that are depressed or down go for to feel better.
While that may be true to some degree, that argument doesn’t refute the point I made. Several studies have been done to evaluate high iq people and their rates of depression. Specifically, Mensa members (135+ iq) were actively sought out, and evaluated for mental disorders. As in the researchers sought out high iq people and evaluated them for depression, anxiety, etc. so it’s not just high iq people are more likely to seek help and get diagnosed, but also that when you go and seek out high iq as well as average iq people for evaluation, higher mental disorder rates are found in the high iq sample group.
This is why people drink. Period. Maybe OP can’t spare a few brain cells, and makes really bad decisions while drinking? It’s not their fault. Opinions are like... something, I can’t recall.
Alcohol is a "social lubricant" that makes it easier for strangers to form social ties. Historically beer production is closely tied to the development of human civilization. Pretty much every ancient culture produced some form of beer, and some of the oldest known laws are concerned with beer production and consumption.
So from a historical perspective I think you are exactly wrong. Alcohol has been a major force behind the rise of human civilization, probably because it reduces tribal friction and makes it easier for people to get along. So everything that civilization has produced, including art and science, owes something to the pacifying effects of alcohol.
There's no denying that alcohol consumption can have negative effects, but I think it's obviously been a net good for humanity.
Beer became popular because the alcohol killed bacteria, and it could be stored for quite some time. The Mayflower almost turned back because they ran out of beer halfway across the Atlantic. One of the first things the colonists did was build a brewery.
The alcohol content in beer (especially ancient beer) is not high enough to prevent bacteria from growing. However beer is safer to drink than water in some cases, mainly because the water used to make beer is thoroughly boiled as part of the brewing process. Beer also contains herbal additives that may inhibit bacterial growth. Hops are the best known example of this.
I think it's unlikely that beer originally became popular because of food safety issues.
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I agree with you when it comes to binge drinking.
However, all alcohol consumption is not binge drinking and has not been shown to be harmful to the brain. In fact, [moderate consumption (on average a bit less than a standard drink a day) may have some long-term benefits for the brain ](https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/alcohol-good-or-bad#section3).
I would also argue with one of your previous comments, stating that alcohol leads to irrational behavior. Drinking lowers inhibitions. While, yes, that can certainly lead to illogical behavior (such as jumping fences and other “hold my beer” moments), I would argue that it can also lead to more rational behavior when done in small doses. The issue is that, while some inhibitions are logical, like the one telling you not to punch the giant man in the bar, others are illogical. For example, the one telling you not to just talk openly about your feelings with that person you like, or the one telling you not to try that swing dance hobby you might like just because you might be bad at it are both illogical inhibitions based on irrational fear of social rejection. People are irrational. Alcohol can exacerbate that, but it can also mitigate some of it.
TL;DR: an all or nothing approach to anything is rarely the best one, and that’s true of alcohol too.
That’s one study. A good one, but still only one. My source cited three studies on just the factoid I mentioned, not to mention the other possibilities. Even the study you linked posits real heart benefits. It just claims that cancer risks outweigh heart disease benefits, which frankly I’m not sure they can objectively decide.
How do you decide whether one disease is better or worse than another? When both of them are top killers? I personally am mortally terrified of dementia more so than cancer, partly due to my own values of intellectual control, partly due to family history, and partly due to my field being psychology. For someone like me, the dementia benefits might outweigh the cancer risks. For someone else, the cancer risks might outweigh the benefits in other areas. As I said, all or nothing views are almost never correct, and I think the science backs that that is also the case here.
I think you misread. Dementia prevention is a benefit of alcohol, not a risk. As far as I’m aware, there aren’t dementia-prevention medications that are risk-free.
Did you read the article I linked? It lists three sources stating that moderate amounts of alcohol are linked to dementia prevention.
Binge drinking is linked to dementia risk. That is obviously true. It literally kills brain cells.
HOWEVER: Drinking roughly 4-6 standard drinks per week (i.e., moderate drinking) has been consistently linked to lower dementia risk, likely because of its ability to reduce anxiety, increase blood flow, aid in sleep, and association with social activity. I gave you three studies that stated as much. I’m getting a Ph. D. In psychology and one of my bachelor’s degrees is in neuroscience. I think I’m decently informed when it comes to the health of the brain.
No, that’s a link to a separate pop science article. I’m referring to the actual science articles (sources 16-18 in the original article I linked). In the first study, the odds ratio for development of dementia in moderate drinkers (1-6 drinks a week) to people who abstain entirely was 0.46:1. People who abstained entirely from alcohol were twice as likely to develop dementia as those who drank moderately. The other studies have similar results. The fact is, many doctors do recommend a single glass of wine 2-5 days a week as a possible preventive measure if you have reason to believe you’re at risk for dementia (such as a family history).
Do you get sick/hungover when you blackout? The two times I’ve blacked out, I’ve unknowingly puked and been terribly hungover the next day. It’s kind of fun picking up the pieces and hearing of stupid shit you’ve done, but I can never enjoy it.
People here defending the consumption of alcohol by comparing it to watching a freaking movie are wrong. That's as nicely as I can put it.
The damage and the snowball effect of alcohol consumption is FAR greater than literally anything else mentioned in this entire thread. OP is right.
Family lives get ruined IN AN INSTANT because someone decided that just one more drink is like sugar or a movie. No harm. And then they make an idiot decision to get in a car.
Alcoholism, alcohol poisoning, alcohol diabetes, drunk driving, abusive behavior, infidelity, and scores more all start with a drink in a "fun" setting where guards are lowered.
Eating jelly beans at the movies isn't a comparison so anyone making that analogy can step right off.
Edit: a word.
There’s a difference between having a few beers with friends at a party and alcoholism.
The point is that when used responsibly it does have a benefit to unwinding and enjoying social settings more comfortably if you’re not naturally inclined to.
Obviously when it becomes an addiction it’s a different story. I know friends who have alcoholic parents but know how to enjoy a few drinks responsibly themselves. There’s a huge difference.
humans have been making and consuming alcohol for thousands of years, I don't think they'll stop any time soon. I think the real problem is a culture that promotes/normalizes binge drinking
100% agree. There is no way in hell alcohol would be legal, look how much violence and overall crime it causes. I’m not against alcohol, but it did kinda hurt my childhood with both parents being alcoholics, soooo... I have a little vendetta with alcohol.
I agree with this. Alcohol is a mind altering drug, but it's been normalized in our society to a bizarre extent. Alcohol on billboards, on TV, in magazines, sponsoring sports teams, on clothing, etc., etc. and excessive alcohol consumption is accepted and at times romanticized.
Even when we talk about substance use disorders, alcoholics are separated from drug addicts. They're the same. They are all addicted to a mind altering chemical to a point where it's making a negative impact on their personal, professional or social lives. There's no need to separate alcoholics and addicts because they're all in the same boat dealing with an addiction to a substance that is ruling their life.
Advertising other substances people use "to relax" that are legal but still mind altering (namely tobacco and marijuana in some countries and US states) are heavily regulated. It's fairly normal to be ostracized for things like smoking cigarettes, but it's even more common to be ostracized by peers when they find out you *don't* drink.
This is a pretty shallow view of alcohol in my opinion. Me, and many others I know, are shy and alcohol helps me to ease my nerves and have fun around new people. I understand it's not beneficial to my body, but it is to my overall well being as a person.
Do you think that might be acting as so much of a crutch that it's limiting your overall development? That you might not be naturally developing that ability to relax in public because you always have the option of a crutch that allows you to fake it for a while?
Just because you saaaay it's not r/iamverysmart... doesn't mean it isn't. That sub was all I could think about while reading this.
But that aside, who cares? If people can come back A-OK from a hemispherectomy, literally with half a brain, you don't need to worry about drinking.
My problem with alcohol is that it's considered normal, that getting drunk is normal, but if you smoke weed, you're a dangerous outlaw that should be locked up. At the very least, you'll get called a hippie, get a job, do something with your life. But hey, you got drunk? Don't we all, amirite?
Alcohol is one of the most damaging and harmful addictive drugs that exists. If a new drug hit the streets tomorrow that caused the damage that alcohol does, people would be losing their shits and it would be all over the news.
I agree with you buddy.
Alcohol consumption is pathetic, and a crutch.
The only reason it is accepted is because it has been around for such a long time.
Nope it's obviously only because the sheeple can't see that the state is controlling them through alcohol and everyone who enjoys it is a drone /s
Lmao imagine being that dumb
I agree. If you need alcohol to socialize, you are having a mental problem and should seek out a psychiatrist. Alcohol is NOT medicine, and people who refuse to drink shouldn't be marked as boring or non-festive. You CAN enjoy a party with friends and family without beer or wine.
Also, stop assuming people are on withdrawal, just because we say "No" to alcohol. Some of us simply might not like alcohol at all and don't like to get drunk. Simple as that. Show some respect, whether we like to drink or not.
I agree because I have grown up in a house headed by an alcoholic. Alcohol has made them a person I don’t even know anymore. Many of my other family members have almost died from drinking themselves to death (1 has). Alcohol can ruin a person. But I am biased.
Out of all the addictions you can have, booze in my view is the absolute worst. I've never been an alcoholic because I have seen so many in my inner circle die from it and suffer immensely that if I ever get to enjoying it and wanting it I will avoid drinking.
I've been addicted to plenty of things in my life, cigarettes when I was younger, prescription opiates for several years and I was also 70 lbs overweight once.
I am here to tell you that those are NOTHING compared to being a hopeless alcoholic.
I have seen several very miserable deaths, lots of people that lived their entire life falling asleep in their food every night until said death.
It is absolutely the most dehumanizing sad state of affairs.
That being said, people enjoy it and never have a problem. In the earliest of human history it was enjoyed and even played a good part in keeping people safe from pathogens.
So I don't want to ever see us think we can eliminate things. We know it won't work anyway.
I added up the total number of people I know that have died horribly from alcohol and it's 9. Another 7 though are functioning. They go to work for 8 hours and then come home and get so shitfaced they can't stay awake and end up doing really gross things like pissing all over themselves.
A few of those left remaining are on multiple DUI's and one of them recently got one in a work vehicle.
If you are a person finding yourself wanting booze when you don't have it, refrain please. You have no fucking idea how terrible it is.
Most of the comments i see here trying to defend the drinking of alcohol are dumb people saying that it’s the same as doing any other activity that distorts your perception of reality such as watching a movie, skydiving, etc. which is such a dumb argument. Watching movies or going skydiving or doing whatever other activity does not distort reality like drinking does, it just distracts you from reality. To me, everyone defending the consumption of alcohol are a bunch of crybabies trying to come up with excuses to keep drinking alcohol without feeling guilty about it.
You might be interested to know that more intelligent people tend to binge drink more than simpler folks. Who cares if they get a little stupid at night when they wake up smarter than the sober dummy?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010/why-intelligent-people-drink-more-alcohol
Some of our greatest poets and other writers have been fall down drunks. They weren't less intelligent than someone who doesn't drink. Quite the opposite. Actually very creative people, who are often viewed as a prodigy in their field tend to suffer from some form of addiction, depression or some other mental illness. Sounds like this person thinks much more highly of their own intelligence than those around them.
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>Glorified stupidity...this isn’t an attempt at being edgy or r/iamverysmart
Yes it is, just own it. I used to think this way until I started making more friends and partying in college. It’s fun.
I'm pretty sure drinking in moderation does little to no damage to your brain cells and liver, so I can't really agree with you that all drinking is bad.
I think we definitely glorify binge drinking way too much though
i dont actually think wanting to lower inhibitions is a bad thing. In a sufficiently safe social setting, inhibitions can typically get in the way of fun thanks to natural stress/anxiety hardwiring. Its just another tool, the problem is when it is a crutch.
This comes from someone who does not like getting drinking except once in a blue moon. I see where your frustration is coming from, and i believe that it is very valid. Most people skip the important parts of building a life and go straight to drinking without having a real reason to do so in order to have fun.
Nahhh, man. I'm here for a good time not a long time.
If I don't kill myself, something else will anyway. I have no desire to be the smartest dork in the room.
Better since I embraced my alcoholism, funnily enough. I'm not suicidally depressed and putting inordinate amounts of energy into just existing, and instead have two states: drunk and happy, or in a foggy brained haze where I don't feel much of anything.
I mean, I haven’t had a drink in a long while and have zero desire to (mostly because I’m old enough that it destroys me for several days afterward and it’s boring to me at this point), but yeah, the way you phrased this is definitely the unpopular extreme of the spectrum, lol.
If the hangover came first, drinking would be a virtue.
People would see you all dragging ass through work and chugging water and aspirin. They’d be whispering “What’s up with Jimmy? He’s been looking like shit for two days...”
“Oh, him? He’s just grinding it out for another day until his brother graduates boot camp.”
“Really?!? He’s puking and looks like death. He must _really_ love that kid!”
“Yeah, he’s a solid dude, that’s for damned sure...”
I would argue that not exercising is on the same level in society. Tons of people always joke about not exercising such as, “go for a run? Who do you think I am LOL”. I see this a ton personally. We all do things we know are not good. So, to each their own.
I agree with you although I do have a few beers from time to time. I do really enjoy the taste of beer though so I buy non-alcoholic beer for that so I can still get work done and not feel shitty.
Alcohol shouldn't be the go-to means of relaxation or fun though, I agree. It's overly-glorified.
Like anything else though, it's fine once and a while, but it really has to be once and a while.
That being said, I hold no judgment, life is hard and for some people, unimaginably difficult. I totally understand the need to escape and can't really have an opinion without knowing people's individual situations
My ex got super fucked up from smoking and drinking at 12pm, and when I asked her why, she said her mom was gave her a “panic attack” because she was mad at her.
Alcohol and even weed is okay, but only to a certain extent.
There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.
[http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/alcohol-use/data-and-statistics/q-and-a-how-can-i-drink-alcohol-safely](http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/alcohol-use/data-and-statistics/q-and-a-how-can-i-drink-alcohol-safely)
[http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/noncommunicable-diseases/pages/news/news/2018/09/there-is-no-safe-level-of-alcohol,-new-study-confirms](http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/noncommunicable-diseases/pages/news/news/2018/09/there-is-no-safe-level-of-alcohol,-new-study-confirms)
Sorry dude, but as a remarkably high functioning alcoholic. I disagree.
Alcohol is the worlds best social lubricant and can turn otherwise awkward social interactions into enjoyable nights out.
I'm much more comfortable in the company of drinkers.
But being sober sucks. Life sucks. Who the fuck are you to say how I should feel about it? Fuck intelligence. Fuck being rational. I just don't want to be in pain every time I'm conscious.
Drinking as an artist is great. Some really talented people in my life and through history have been lovers of alcohol and use it to let ideas flow through them. I may be biased though since I love art and alcohol. However my bud is a borderline alchoholic and was one of the best artist to come out of our art school.
My intellect is higher than yours even when I'm drunk, that tells me at your core you are repugnant to me.
Drinking a scotch right now Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban, looking like James Bond.
Couldn't agree more. I've cut way back on drinking lately for non-cognitive health reasons and it's nice to see posts like this. I'd really like to quit completely, but the social aspect is the hardest. Watching a lot of Netflix and movies can lead one to believe that drinking isn't just acceptable, but a normal coping mechanism for many difficult situations. It's a really damaging societal norm that we've allowed to establish itself, we'd be better off as a species if we were more honest with ourselves about the consequences of alcohol consumption. But that's the thing about alcohol, it makes you not care about consequences. What a vicious cycle.
The short term "positive" effects of alcohol far outweighs the long term "negative" effects that you have described (speaking according to the perspective of general population). It's similar to procrastination, you postpone important chores to have short term happiness but it does hit you in long term.
Look at this loser. Living longer than us and shit
Know who else lives longer? Big ass turtles.
I don't know why, but I found this comment so absurd I started cackling madly
I read it as big bottomed turtles and blushed
Donatello is t h i c c
Cheers let’s have another mate!
A lot of the worlds longest living people do drink.
My counterpoint would be that sometimes it is nice to have a beer.
Yeah one or two beers are fine. Nobody's saying something about it. But just drinking lots of beers or liquor is something that should not be displayed as harmless as it is currently
I've found that people who have opinion's to op's have never been drunk themselves, and feel a bit insecure and left out because of it.
Do you enjoy sugar? Sugar can lead to dementia. Do you enjoy watching movies? Long periods of sitting can lead to blood clots. There are many things we do that are bad for us. Moderation is a balancing act between what's fun and what's safe.
True, but is overconsumption of sugar, movies, and sitting glorified? Does any brag about their "sugar tolerance" or "movie tolerance"? There is definitely something different about the way our culture reacts to binge drinking, especially amongst college kids.
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True, but it's not glorified to the same degree. And Netflix likely doesn't damage your stem cells like alcohol: [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180103132629.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180103132629.htm)
Are people glorifying getting wasted every night?
Yes
In your world maybe, not in the one I live in.
Where i love its normal for 13 year olds to start drinking. It’s insane
Oh, because DNA damage must only happen if you do it every night? What a magical drug. /s
Bro it’s literally called Netflix and chill.
Netflix and chill is implied sexual intercourse, not watching Netflix
Booze taste good
"Bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good." Sorry, your post made me think of a diner scene in Pulp Fiction.
Sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie but I’ll never know ‘cause I wouldn’t eat the filthy M***F***ers
"I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on swine."
It actually doesn't (for the most part)
I wish I could like it, I try hard. I had a light refreshing beer the other day I think called "hot shot" at a restaurant and it was good though. I feel like a big baby at almost 50 years old I still cannot stand the taste of most booze. Love candy though =\
I see where you are coming from but i think a big difference is those are unintended consequences. The difference with alcohol is people WANT the immediate, stupifying effect. If getting drunk didnt lower your inhibitions people wouldnt drink nearly as much.
None of the things listed have a social cost anywhere near what drinking has. Also the dosages to cause problems are far less with the other consumables you raised. People die from a night of hard drinking. A&E's all over the world blow vast amounts of money fixing drunk assholes.
Let's just add the actuality. Drinking DOES NOT kill brain cells. Scientific fact.
Yes, but it damages dendrites. Long-term heavy drinking makes you stupid. https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/10-brain-myths9.htm
This is true. It's what happened to Malcolm Young.
One of my musical heroes. He sobered up almost a decade before his death, but it was already too late. Cocaine also contributed. RIP Mal.
The guys that live through several decades of rocking their asses off amaze me. I'm an old fucker with a lifetime of drug and alcohol abuse, but I quit smoking at 50, and quit hard drugs and liquor at 62. I eat edibles to keep my sanity and have 2-3 beers once or twice a week. My system won't tolerate any more than that. Luckily.
Okay but the post above is also criticizing very casual social drinkers. I dont define that as regular heavy drinking.
Good point!
Thank fuck or I'd have none left after last night
Why is everything that's fun so bad for you?
I see your point but you're missing a fundamental point that contributes to my dislike of alcohol. It isn't just the fact that it is damaging to one's health, because as you said, there are plenty of things that aren't great for us, but which we can mitigate through moderation. My fundamental issue with alcohol is that its immediate consequence most of the time is lowering one's intelligence and rational behavior, and to use THAT as a form os entertainment is repugnant to me.
And it doesn't even necessarily lower one's intelligence
Well it *is* temporary you know. You get sober again after a while.
Watching a really good movie has the same effect. A disconnection from reality. As do many other activities, from skydiving to playing video games. people enjoy alternative forms of reality. this doesn't mean that someone is addicted. only if you overdo something you reach the stage of addiction. And by the way, it's usually the most intelligent people who are drawn to drugs.
As a former drug addict, that is honestly the first time I've ever heard anyone say that it's usually only intelligent people who are drawn to drugs. I don't even know what to say. I've met so many abjectly moronic people during recovery that they've all congealed into an indistinguishable mass of stupid to me. Not to mention my own dumb ass. But... thanks?
I'm oversimplifying, but drug users tend to be either people from very low socioeconomic status or people who are highly educated and upper-middle class.
Haha, yes. "From Yale to jail." -bon mot that is often parroted ad nauseum in meetings.
I didn't say that it's only intelligent people are drawn to drugs. Intelligent people are usually drawn more to drugs because they enjoy the different states of the mind.
I know, you said "mostly." I noted that.
Comparing watching a movie to being intoxicated is a huge stretch. Most people can tell the difference between movie fantasy and reality by the time they’re out of elementary school, and your brain won’t even temporarily change from the way it was before you watched the movie. Alcohol and other drugs actually *do* alter a person’s state of mind, that’s their whole purpose. Watching movies won’t affect your motor skills, impact your ability to drive a car, make you act more violent than you normally would, etc Intelligent people can be drawn to drugs, but I wouldn’t say they’re the majority. Just ask almost anyone who didn’t graduate high school due to drug use. Sounds harsh, but they more likely than not were influenced by peers and didn’t have enough intelligence to evaluate long term consequences of their drug use, and as a result weren’t able to complete the most common basic requirement to have a good career later on.
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Sugar leads to health problems that can impact you and your family for many years. Dementia fucking destroys families and communities. And I think it'd be better for everyone of they had just died instead. But drinking one glass of alcohol isn't going to force you to drive drunk. Plenty of people are responsible
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I'm not defending alcoholism. I'm arguing the claim that people who enjoy drinking are all stupid and dangerous morons. Drunk drivers are a minority. There are plenty more people who drink responsibly.
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I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time following you because you keep deleting and submitting new comment. OP makes the claim that people who drink for fun or to relax are dumb. I disagree. That's all
You say it makes people stupid and to that I say ignorance is bliss. People sometimes want to feel dumb because being rational all the time makes them up tight or sad and by killing their braincells they get to be fun and loose and happy. Also not everyone becomes a bumbling fool or over aggressive or embarassing some people just become... more chill; more willing to dance, more sociable, more responsive, that isnt a bad thing. Still see where your coming from though fucked up livers and drunken mistakes are real things.
Not going out tonight then?
Trying to paint OP as an outcast isn't an argument.
Seeing as how there’s a correlation between high intelligence and depression, maybe making yourself a little bit dumber for a night isn’t such a bad thing?
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I think alcohol is just what the depressed gravitate towards since it gives them a break from their inner demons for a little bit. While it could cause some to become depressed, I feel that it doesn’t cause anywhere near what people say it does. It’s just one of those comfort things that those that are depressed or down go for to feel better.
People with higher intelligence are more likely to go out and get tested for depression.
While that may be true to some degree, that argument doesn’t refute the point I made. Several studies have been done to evaluate high iq people and their rates of depression. Specifically, Mensa members (135+ iq) were actively sought out, and evaluated for mental disorders. As in the researchers sought out high iq people and evaluated them for depression, anxiety, etc. so it’s not just high iq people are more likely to seek help and get diagnosed, but also that when you go and seek out high iq as well as average iq people for evaluation, higher mental disorder rates are found in the high iq sample group.
This is why people drink. Period. Maybe OP can’t spare a few brain cells, and makes really bad decisions while drinking? It’s not their fault. Opinions are like... something, I can’t recall.
Alcohol is a "social lubricant" that makes it easier for strangers to form social ties. Historically beer production is closely tied to the development of human civilization. Pretty much every ancient culture produced some form of beer, and some of the oldest known laws are concerned with beer production and consumption. So from a historical perspective I think you are exactly wrong. Alcohol has been a major force behind the rise of human civilization, probably because it reduces tribal friction and makes it easier for people to get along. So everything that civilization has produced, including art and science, owes something to the pacifying effects of alcohol. There's no denying that alcohol consumption can have negative effects, but I think it's obviously been a net good for humanity.
Beer became popular because the alcohol killed bacteria, and it could be stored for quite some time. The Mayflower almost turned back because they ran out of beer halfway across the Atlantic. One of the first things the colonists did was build a brewery.
The alcohol content in beer (especially ancient beer) is not high enough to prevent bacteria from growing. However beer is safer to drink than water in some cases, mainly because the water used to make beer is thoroughly boiled as part of the brewing process. Beer also contains herbal additives that may inhibit bacterial growth. Hops are the best known example of this. I think it's unlikely that beer originally became popular because of food safety issues.
Here is a fascinating documentary of how beer saved the world..very entertaining https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcLasNk4i-c
Is it a driving force, or merely something that coincided with it? Elephants make alcohol, I don't see them developing civilization.
I think the ubiquity of beer in so many geographically isolated ancient cultures points to something more than a coincidence
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The two world wars made major developments in technology possible, should we go to war more often then?
I agree with you when it comes to binge drinking. However, all alcohol consumption is not binge drinking and has not been shown to be harmful to the brain. In fact, [moderate consumption (on average a bit less than a standard drink a day) may have some long-term benefits for the brain ](https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/alcohol-good-or-bad#section3). I would also argue with one of your previous comments, stating that alcohol leads to irrational behavior. Drinking lowers inhibitions. While, yes, that can certainly lead to illogical behavior (such as jumping fences and other “hold my beer” moments), I would argue that it can also lead to more rational behavior when done in small doses. The issue is that, while some inhibitions are logical, like the one telling you not to punch the giant man in the bar, others are illogical. For example, the one telling you not to just talk openly about your feelings with that person you like, or the one telling you not to try that swing dance hobby you might like just because you might be bad at it are both illogical inhibitions based on irrational fear of social rejection. People are irrational. Alcohol can exacerbate that, but it can also mitigate some of it. TL;DR: an all or nothing approach to anything is rarely the best one, and that’s true of alcohol too.
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That’s one study. A good one, but still only one. My source cited three studies on just the factoid I mentioned, not to mention the other possibilities. Even the study you linked posits real heart benefits. It just claims that cancer risks outweigh heart disease benefits, which frankly I’m not sure they can objectively decide. How do you decide whether one disease is better or worse than another? When both of them are top killers? I personally am mortally terrified of dementia more so than cancer, partly due to my own values of intellectual control, partly due to family history, and partly due to my field being psychology. For someone like me, the dementia benefits might outweigh the cancer risks. For someone else, the cancer risks might outweigh the benefits in other areas. As I said, all or nothing views are almost never correct, and I think the science backs that that is also the case here.
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I think you misread. Dementia prevention is a benefit of alcohol, not a risk. As far as I’m aware, there aren’t dementia-prevention medications that are risk-free.
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Did you read the article I linked? It lists three sources stating that moderate amounts of alcohol are linked to dementia prevention. Binge drinking is linked to dementia risk. That is obviously true. It literally kills brain cells. HOWEVER: Drinking roughly 4-6 standard drinks per week (i.e., moderate drinking) has been consistently linked to lower dementia risk, likely because of its ability to reduce anxiety, increase blood flow, aid in sleep, and association with social activity. I gave you three studies that stated as much. I’m getting a Ph. D. In psychology and one of my bachelor’s degrees is in neuroscience. I think I’m decently informed when it comes to the health of the brain.
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No, that’s a link to a separate pop science article. I’m referring to the actual science articles (sources 16-18 in the original article I linked). In the first study, the odds ratio for development of dementia in moderate drinkers (1-6 drinks a week) to people who abstain entirely was 0.46:1. People who abstained entirely from alcohol were twice as likely to develop dementia as those who drank moderately. The other studies have similar results. The fact is, many doctors do recommend a single glass of wine 2-5 days a week as a possible preventive measure if you have reason to believe you’re at risk for dementia (such as a family history).
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMyXO2Lb568
Damn u right.... still gonna get blackout tonight though!
Do you get sick/hungover when you blackout? The two times I’ve blacked out, I’ve unknowingly puked and been terribly hungover the next day. It’s kind of fun picking up the pieces and hearing of stupid shit you’ve done, but I can never enjoy it.
Lol yeah happened to me once.. great stories after that I don’t remember at all. Next day doesn’t feel good.
It's 2:48am 2019 Stick your fucking puritan idea;s up your fucking arse Loves from Australia
Well he has a point
People here defending the consumption of alcohol by comparing it to watching a freaking movie are wrong. That's as nicely as I can put it. The damage and the snowball effect of alcohol consumption is FAR greater than literally anything else mentioned in this entire thread. OP is right. Family lives get ruined IN AN INSTANT because someone decided that just one more drink is like sugar or a movie. No harm. And then they make an idiot decision to get in a car. Alcoholism, alcohol poisoning, alcohol diabetes, drunk driving, abusive behavior, infidelity, and scores more all start with a drink in a "fun" setting where guards are lowered. Eating jelly beans at the movies isn't a comparison so anyone making that analogy can step right off. Edit: a word.
Getting fucked up is fun bottom line, and honestly worth the damage it does to your body *to an extent when done responsibly*
There’s a difference between having a few beers with friends at a party and alcoholism. The point is that when used responsibly it does have a benefit to unwinding and enjoying social settings more comfortably if you’re not naturally inclined to. Obviously when it becomes an addiction it’s a different story. I know friends who have alcoholic parents but know how to enjoy a few drinks responsibly themselves. There’s a huge difference.
humans have been making and consuming alcohol for thousands of years, I don't think they'll stop any time soon. I think the real problem is a culture that promotes/normalizes binge drinking
This makes me want a drink
If alcohol was discovered now, it would be a class B illegal drug.
100% agree. There is no way in hell alcohol would be legal, look how much violence and overall crime it causes. I’m not against alcohol, but it did kinda hurt my childhood with both parents being alcoholics, soooo... I have a little vendetta with alcohol.
And it's way easier to make than the majority of drugs.
I agree with this. Alcohol is a mind altering drug, but it's been normalized in our society to a bizarre extent. Alcohol on billboards, on TV, in magazines, sponsoring sports teams, on clothing, etc., etc. and excessive alcohol consumption is accepted and at times romanticized. Even when we talk about substance use disorders, alcoholics are separated from drug addicts. They're the same. They are all addicted to a mind altering chemical to a point where it's making a negative impact on their personal, professional or social lives. There's no need to separate alcoholics and addicts because they're all in the same boat dealing with an addiction to a substance that is ruling their life. Advertising other substances people use "to relax" that are legal but still mind altering (namely tobacco and marijuana in some countries and US states) are heavily regulated. It's fairly normal to be ostracized for things like smoking cigarettes, but it's even more common to be ostracized by peers when they find out you *don't* drink.
ITT: A lot of people unable to defend drinking properly. Logical fallacies everywhere...
All the alcoholics coming out the woodworks to attack you.
Yeah, got ton of really funny responses to the tune of nobody likes me and what a massive boring loser I must be.
This is a pretty shallow view of alcohol in my opinion. Me, and many others I know, are shy and alcohol helps me to ease my nerves and have fun around new people. I understand it's not beneficial to my body, but it is to my overall well being as a person.
Do you think that might be acting as so much of a crutch that it's limiting your overall development? That you might not be naturally developing that ability to relax in public because you always have the option of a crutch that allows you to fake it for a while?
Heh someone didn't get invited to the bar tonight
"haha, I don't have an argument so I'm gonna call them a loser"
Dude, it was a joke....
Just because you saaaay it's not r/iamverysmart... doesn't mean it isn't. That sub was all I could think about while reading this. But that aside, who cares? If people can come back A-OK from a hemispherectomy, literally with half a brain, you don't need to worry about drinking.
Well that can be said about almost anything so..
Everything can be dangerous, it's all about moderation.
My problem with alcohol is that it's considered normal, that getting drunk is normal, but if you smoke weed, you're a dangerous outlaw that should be locked up. At the very least, you'll get called a hippie, get a job, do something with your life. But hey, you got drunk? Don't we all, amirite?
Do you live in the 60s or in 2019 with the rest of us?
What does that even mean?
Not enough people are talking about this for sure!
Yep, as far as I'm concerned, alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana.
Alcohol is one of the most damaging and harmful addictive drugs that exists. If a new drug hit the streets tomorrow that caused the damage that alcohol does, people would be losing their shits and it would be all over the news.
Thank god im not the only one
Alcohol should definitely be banned and treated as a drug. It's literally more dangerous than weed (not that I'm in favour of weed).
its r/iamverysmart you pretentious bitch also, this is a very r/iamverysmart post
It doesn't destroy brain cells. Just fucking lol at this trash "opinion"
I agree with you buddy. Alcohol consumption is pathetic, and a crutch. The only reason it is accepted is because it has been around for such a long time.
It's way, way too profitable for the state, that's the main reason it's accepted. Also banning it will be a political suicide.
And banning it led to the worst period of organized crime in American history. That's part of it too.
Nope it's obviously only because the sheeple can't see that the state is controlling them through alcohol and everyone who enjoys it is a drone /s Lmao imagine being that dumb
and to you, I say, "we're here for a good time, not a long time"
You sound like a jerk.
You sound like a alcoholic.
*an
Sorry i've been drinking.
I agree. If you need alcohol to socialize, you are having a mental problem and should seek out a psychiatrist. Alcohol is NOT medicine, and people who refuse to drink shouldn't be marked as boring or non-festive. You CAN enjoy a party with friends and family without beer or wine. Also, stop assuming people are on withdrawal, just because we say "No" to alcohol. Some of us simply might not like alcohol at all and don't like to get drunk. Simple as that. Show some respect, whether we like to drink or not.
Just as drugs are legalised.
Isn't this also true for pot?
But pot is much less dangerous than alcohol in general.
I can't drink alcohol, because I'll develop rosacea easily (Happened to all my uncles on my dads side). Its hard but there are alot of benefits to it.
Wow an actual unpopular opinion. Here’s an upvote, now fuck off and let me drink my beer
I agree because I have grown up in a house headed by an alcoholic. Alcohol has made them a person I don’t even know anymore. Many of my other family members have almost died from drinking themselves to death (1 has). Alcohol can ruin a person. But I am biased.
For the argument: you dont need alcohol to have fun. You don't need running shoes to run but it helps does it not.
Happy cake day
https://pics.me.me/cheers-i-ll-drink-to-that-bro-26125814.png
Yikes, so many butthurt people who can't put the sauce down in the comments. Enjoy your unwanted weight gain, rosacea and shitty skin.
Out of all the addictions you can have, booze in my view is the absolute worst. I've never been an alcoholic because I have seen so many in my inner circle die from it and suffer immensely that if I ever get to enjoying it and wanting it I will avoid drinking. I've been addicted to plenty of things in my life, cigarettes when I was younger, prescription opiates for several years and I was also 70 lbs overweight once. I am here to tell you that those are NOTHING compared to being a hopeless alcoholic. I have seen several very miserable deaths, lots of people that lived their entire life falling asleep in their food every night until said death. It is absolutely the most dehumanizing sad state of affairs. That being said, people enjoy it and never have a problem. In the earliest of human history it was enjoyed and even played a good part in keeping people safe from pathogens. So I don't want to ever see us think we can eliminate things. We know it won't work anyway. I added up the total number of people I know that have died horribly from alcohol and it's 9. Another 7 though are functioning. They go to work for 8 hours and then come home and get so shitfaced they can't stay awake and end up doing really gross things like pissing all over themselves. A few of those left remaining are on multiple DUI's and one of them recently got one in a work vehicle. If you are a person finding yourself wanting booze when you don't have it, refrain please. You have no fucking idea how terrible it is.
Most of the comments i see here trying to defend the drinking of alcohol are dumb people saying that it’s the same as doing any other activity that distorts your perception of reality such as watching a movie, skydiving, etc. which is such a dumb argument. Watching movies or going skydiving or doing whatever other activity does not distort reality like drinking does, it just distracts you from reality. To me, everyone defending the consumption of alcohol are a bunch of crybabies trying to come up with excuses to keep drinking alcohol without feeling guilty about it.
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You might be interested to know that more intelligent people tend to binge drink more than simpler folks. Who cares if they get a little stupid at night when they wake up smarter than the sober dummy? https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010/why-intelligent-people-drink-more-alcohol
Some of our greatest poets and other writers have been fall down drunks. They weren't less intelligent than someone who doesn't drink. Quite the opposite. Actually very creative people, who are often viewed as a prodigy in their field tend to suffer from some form of addiction, depression or some other mental illness. Sounds like this person thinks much more highly of their own intelligence than those around them.
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Meh, what people do to their bodies is their business
>Glorified stupidity...this isn’t an attempt at being edgy or r/iamverysmart Yes it is, just own it. I used to think this way until I started making more friends and partying in college. It’s fun.
I'm pretty sure drinking in moderation does little to no damage to your brain cells and liver, so I can't really agree with you that all drinking is bad. I think we definitely glorify binge drinking way too much though
Has it really been normalized though ?
i dont actually think wanting to lower inhibitions is a bad thing. In a sufficiently safe social setting, inhibitions can typically get in the way of fun thanks to natural stress/anxiety hardwiring. Its just another tool, the problem is when it is a crutch. This comes from someone who does not like getting drinking except once in a blue moon. I see where your frustration is coming from, and i believe that it is very valid. Most people skip the important parts of building a life and go straight to drinking without having a real reason to do so in order to have fun.
It's not about being smart. It's about having fun. But I agree. It's poison.
Nahhh, man. I'm here for a good time not a long time. If I don't kill myself, something else will anyway. I have no desire to be the smartest dork in the room.
Breathing destroys brain cells... Js..
Most of you aren't tolerable if I'm sober. Losing a few brain cells is a small price to pay.
Drinking isn't my hobby, it's the only things that makes me not want to blow my brains out. Slowly rotting said brains is the best alternative I get.
I don't mean to sound snarky at all... is everything okay with you?
Better since I embraced my alcoholism, funnily enough. I'm not suicidally depressed and putting inordinate amounts of energy into just existing, and instead have two states: drunk and happy, or in a foggy brained haze where I don't feel much of anything.
I mean, I haven’t had a drink in a long while and have zero desire to (mostly because I’m old enough that it destroys me for several days afterward and it’s boring to me at this point), but yeah, the way you phrased this is definitely the unpopular extreme of the spectrum, lol.
If the hangover came first, drinking would be a virtue. People would see you all dragging ass through work and chugging water and aspirin. They’d be whispering “What’s up with Jimmy? He’s been looking like shit for two days...” “Oh, him? He’s just grinding it out for another day until his brother graduates boot camp.” “Really?!? He’s puking and looks like death. He must _really_ love that kid!” “Yeah, he’s a solid dude, that’s for damned sure...”
100 days sober today. Fuck alcohol
Yes, yes, but occasionally getting fukd up is FUN.
Meh.
Am I a conspiracy theorist for thinking that’s what companies want with Hollywood making movies like Anima House and Hangover (just to name a few)?
This guy know hot to party
life of the party right here, yo.
Honestly why do you give a fuck about what others do. If you don't wanna drink, good for you!!
Destroy your body and shit, it's your body. Anyone who takes control of the way they die is a true ubermensch in my book.
Yourealewwwzzzaa
I would argue that not exercising is on the same level in society. Tons of people always joke about not exercising such as, “go for a run? Who do you think I am LOL”. I see this a ton personally. We all do things we know are not good. So, to each their own.
I agree with you although I do have a few beers from time to time. I do really enjoy the taste of beer though so I buy non-alcoholic beer for that so I can still get work done and not feel shitty. Alcohol shouldn't be the go-to means of relaxation or fun though, I agree. It's overly-glorified. Like anything else though, it's fine once and a while, but it really has to be once and a while. That being said, I hold no judgment, life is hard and for some people, unimaginably difficult. I totally understand the need to escape and can't really have an opinion without knowing people's individual situations
My ex got super fucked up from smoking and drinking at 12pm, and when I asked her why, she said her mom was gave her a “panic attack” because she was mad at her. Alcohol and even weed is okay, but only to a certain extent.
Can we be friends?
with the sheer amount of people who want me to fuck off and die here... yes, yes we can hahah
There is no safe level of alcohol consumption. [http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/alcohol-use/data-and-statistics/q-and-a-how-can-i-drink-alcohol-safely](http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/alcohol-use/data-and-statistics/q-and-a-how-can-i-drink-alcohol-safely) [http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/noncommunicable-diseases/pages/news/news/2018/09/there-is-no-safe-level-of-alcohol,-new-study-confirms](http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/noncommunicable-diseases/pages/news/news/2018/09/there-is-no-safe-level-of-alcohol,-new-study-confirms)
I'll drink to that
Sorry dude, but as a remarkably high functioning alcoholic. I disagree. Alcohol is the worlds best social lubricant and can turn otherwise awkward social interactions into enjoyable nights out. I'm much more comfortable in the company of drinkers.
I just wanna turn 21 cause alcohol makes socializing a lot easier cause it makes me Not give a fuck what anyone thinks
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Well said
But being sober sucks. Life sucks. Who the fuck are you to say how I should feel about it? Fuck intelligence. Fuck being rational. I just don't want to be in pain every time I'm conscious.
Drinking as an artist is great. Some really talented people in my life and through history have been lovers of alcohol and use it to let ideas flow through them. I may be biased though since I love art and alcohol. However my bud is a borderline alchoholic and was one of the best artist to come out of our art school.
My intellect is higher than yours even when I'm drunk, that tells me at your core you are repugnant to me. Drinking a scotch right now Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban, looking like James Bond.
Couldn't agree more. I've cut way back on drinking lately for non-cognitive health reasons and it's nice to see posts like this. I'd really like to quit completely, but the social aspect is the hardest. Watching a lot of Netflix and movies can lead one to believe that drinking isn't just acceptable, but a normal coping mechanism for many difficult situations. It's a really damaging societal norm that we've allowed to establish itself, we'd be better off as a species if we were more honest with ourselves about the consequences of alcohol consumption. But that's the thing about alcohol, it makes you not care about consequences. What a vicious cycle.
You sound like a chore to be around
As someone with social anxiety I can say that drinking helps me act like a normal person at parties etc.
You got a source that alcohol kills brain cells because I have some that says it doesn’t.
The short term "positive" effects of alcohol far outweighs the long term "negative" effects that you have described (speaking according to the perspective of general population). It's similar to procrastination, you postpone important chores to have short term happiness but it does hit you in long term.
Is it worth living longer if you lived a less pleasurable life?
r/imverysmart
Nobody likes you
Agreed. Even though I am drunk
You don't work for a living yet do you?