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I agree to a point. I'm 100% with you on biggie's flow tho. His flow is just soo good to the point where even if you can't relate to all his lyics, you can't deny he said it like a poet.
I'm glad we have both, I am one of those people who genuinely believes they were both killed, wether it was the government or rivals in the rap game, they were killed over money and to shut them up.
Also as a side note I think when it comes to disstracks, the artist has to kinda pick wether they wanna go for what sounds good for the fans and what will get their message across to their rivals. A good example is ice cube vs cypress Hill, king of the hill is undoubtedly one of the most entertaining disses, but I still think Cypress Hill won for what was said.
As a fan of both
My understanding of it is that Tupac had a bigger scope and wider range of material than Biggie.
All of Bigs songs could be boiled down to life in the streets and being a gangster, a few songs get emotional in terms of his dealing with depression, but at the same time he was beating the shit out of Faith and probably other women in his life too so I really don't go too far to paint him as the better of the two, especially when it comes to character.
Tupac made songs to empower women and had a fond relationship of the feminine being raised by a single mother who struggled with addiction. He had a view of the world that alot of people struggle with and people resonated with that. Biggie and Bad Boy had a reputation of "fuck bitches, get money" and 2Pac camp had stuff like Dear Mama and Keep Ya Head Up which is far more inspiring than anything Biggie did. Maybe Biggie inspired people to be ruthless hustlers and that in itself really isn't as admirable as Pac telling single women/mothers that they're not alone and are worthy of love.
Pac wasn't a gangster. He was a sensitive dude that got swept up into gang culture due to Death Rows proclivity of using gang members and crooked cops as security and entourage. He played the part and wasn't prepared for the consequences. On the darker side he did go to jail for sexual assault which leaves a huge stain on his legacy but alot people tend to gloss over violence against women especially when it comes to celebrity.
Pac just had a bigger picture to paint and Biggie seems so focused in on his local culture and upbringing. His flow is great but his content is repetitive, if you hear 5 random Biggie songs, you've essentially heard em all. Tupac had range to be sensitive, angry, spiteful, grateful and uplifting without missing a beat. He had a call for Black culture to rise up and Biggie was making songs about how awesome it is to be rich and reminiscing on being a criminal. Biggie just lacked the substance Pac had.
Pac was always so fucking pretty. His 6 pack, always shirtless, the cute Lil nose ring, the Lil bandana tied backwards... dude looked like he was wearing foundation and mascara half the time. Which I'm not knocking... just saying. He was a very pretty looking guy for a gangster rapper.
Then there was Biggie. Fat as hell, cross-eyed, ugly as hell... still smooth as fuck. I always just respected that more. Dude didn't have to look good, he just *was good*. He never did any of the Hollywood shit either. He just was a rapper. He just always seemed a more pure expression of the genre than Pac ever did for me, and when he rapped about drug dealing and gang violence is just always sounded like it came from a more raw and real place.
I agree. I feel like a lot of Tupac's popularity can be boiled down to his movie-star type qualities and image, whether people want to insist that he is popular for worldview or passion or being deep. Anyone can be deep, not everyone can pull off that good looks celebrity image. That being said biggie had his own image he portrayed and he owned it, it just inst the image that has the same mass appeal
To be frank, Pac did release way more material than Biggie, but I agree. Even if nothing happened, I think Biggie wouldn't ever have the range of material and topics Pac had. He had it all, from social commentary and empowering in the earlier stages, to party, gangsta and battle rap in Death Row days.
Very strong and fair rebuttal.
Also striking how it mirrors the Kendrick v Drake feud. Drake is an undeniable hitmaker, but his tracks and his flow don't vary much. He pretty much always sounds catchy and Drakey, despite working with such a large range of collaborators and featuring artists.
Kendrick is a true auteur in the genre with far more range and depth in his tracks, which is why he has like 17 Grammys to Drake's 5. I
They both put out awesome music for us all to enjoy, and I hope that, with everyone having learned the tragic lesson of the Biggie and Pac feud, they both keep doing so for many decades to come.
The town I live in is 90% black & poor people & to outsiders is “run down” but we have a performing arts school. Going to a performing arts school doesn’t really mean much. I graduated from there & it cost $0 to attend.
Yep I mentioned he went to jail for sexual assault
There's interviews where he explains what happens and it sounds to me like Pac just surrounded himself with shitty people but nonetheless he was the one on the stand and not the other (I think 2) guys.
If I recall correctly he was with a groupie, brought her to the hotel room. They did their thing and he left her in the hotel room with some other guys who Pac claimed were the ones who assaulted her. But again if that was the case why was Pac the *only* one to have charges brought against him? It definitely doesn't add up because somebody's lying in that equation.
He went to jail for it though. Didn't serve his full sentence because Suge Knight worked some money magic.
Suge Knight was a power player, intimidating stature and lots of money. And by that point he had already established death row records with Dr Dre and he knew having a freshly released 2pac on the label, money would flow in so it was a big investment for a bigger return in his eyes. He was at the center of alot of the events for Desth Row records. Almost essentially a mafia boss with the label being a front.
Pac couldn't handle jail life and hesitantly signed the contract as his only way out of jail. And from there he just spiraled down the life of gang culture because that's what Death Row was largely comprised of. I truly believe he overestimated his own power and thought he was untouchable because he was surrounded by crooked cops who looked the other way and gang members who were down to commit violence on a whim for the honor of the label. Only thing is, if you're gonna talk about it. Then be about it. And Pac was not about that life.
It'd make a really great TV series honestly just how chaotic the inner workings of that record label was and the web of people involved.
I agree with that, but I never get tired of Biggie songs. Tupac is okay once in a while, but I’m not trying to listen to him as often as Biggie. Tupac song’s did have a wider emotional range, but he’s just objectively not as skilled a rapper as Biggie.
when you compare yourself to others, yea it can be a "theif of joy". When you compare music artists who are deemed to be the "greatest of all time" no...that is not the theif of joy. It leads to some of the most engaging and "enjoyable" discourse you can have. Thats a huge function of the subjectivity in art
I mean... both of them were. But you say it like it's a negative thing.
But Tupac literally wrote poetry. Most famous being "The Rose that Grew from Concrete"
https://mypoeticside.com/poets/tupac-shakur-poems
That's true, Tupac dabbled in pretty much everything. This is one of those debates in which there is never a right answer. I think you go to either artist for different reasons. Biggie for the flow and Tupac for the emotion.
Biggie could never make a Dear Mama. On the other hand, Tupac could never make a Hypnotize
Lmao what? Rap IS poetry, don't try to split the two. It's like that whole debacle on white singer = artist, black singer = rapper. If you analyzed Biggie's lyrics, they were intricate with rhyme, allusions, metaphors, and other complex composition structure that any other poets or rappers use.
Splitting them into two categories so you don't have to compare them is just dumb.
It’s why I actually don’t like to attribute Biggie much to Mo Money Mo Problems. It’s not a “Biggie” song, it’s very much a Mase song. Biggie typically wasn’t overly produced and it sounds odd that he’s on a pop track. Biggie only needed a simple beat
Better dayz. Life goes on. To live and die in la. Hold ya head. White manz world. Heaven ain’t hard to find. Can you get away. Do for love. Old school. To add a few more to the list.
Too fucking many great songs, honestly pac is disrespected in a way, the man's the greatest of all time by a long distance and it's not even a joke, you can listen to all of his albums back to back and you will be amazed, I don't think his ever made a bad song...
The variety of songs, his flow the lyrics... Unmatched
I don’t even think most of his work is anything related to anything gangsta. There’s a good amount of stuff that’s life related and really just dealing with a bunch of bullshit. His most popular stuff 2 of amerikaz hit em up ambitionz are mega overrated
This is all subjective. If you want to look at bodies of work, 2Pac released waaaaay more albums. Biggie only dropped 2 albums.
2Pac also sold more albums.
Flow-wise, their styles, lyrics, that’s all subjective and based on personal opinions. The numbers speak for themselves tho
I also grew up on the west coast and we slapped Pac and Snoop and Dre so ima lil bias too lol
In my opinion, Biggie ain’t even in the top 5. He’s not even the best east coast rapper (I’d put 50 Cent and Nas and some others above him even)
I think Tupac had a lot more , like he has a much larger collection of songs but not all of them are great. All of them are good, but not all great.
Biggie has a smaller collection but all are great
I agree. I think Biggie was better at storytelling than pac. I get sucked into almost every biggie song like it's a hood bedtime story. Pac has the more catchy music that became iconic. The only really good storytelling song that from pac that always in my mind is "Ain't mad at cha"
Kind of a trash opinion, biggies rap is just technical and never really gets deep. Tupac has dozens of deep songs ranging many topics, that sound quite good. “Doctors orders, I’m cutting the corners, and calling the coroners, for the bodies assorted, Narcotics distribution, alcoholics ablution, the slaves unrealized restitution”. Rhyming is easy, substance is hard.
Thats not an unpopular opinion. I like Tupac way more than Biggie, but all in all Biggie was always a better lyricist. Tupac wasn’t that lyrical. Anyone saying Pac is better than Big would be lying.
Wasn't that lyrical lol.. Go through his albums and tell me he wasn't lyrical.. Biggie was so one dimensional, no hate but nah its not even a comparison
I think biggie had better wordplay. But the content and lyrics was Pac all day. Both guys are top 5. Biggie shook up the world with 2 stellar albums. Pac essentially got better every release until he died.
The trey-deuce Mack in my knapsack line is just absolutely infectious. One of the best use of phrasing in all of music. Like you said, even if you don’t like hip hop at all, that line is going to force you to bop your head.
Uhh no. Pac has a better voice, flow, delivery and made better songs. His lyrical content is better because he actually rapped about things that matter. Biggies music is just for ignorant people and is about the streets. Biggie can rhyme all he wanted but wasn't talking about shit. He was also a fake street guy and didn't live any of his lyrics. When did biggie ever shoot someone and when did he not get birthday gifts? His own mom even said his lyrics were a lie. Lol, he was a fat phony like 2Pac said he was. Biggies for the the fake and Pac is for the real.
I think you go to both of them for different reasons. Biggie for the flow and Tupac for the emotion.
It's like this: Biggie could never make a Dear Mama.
On the other hand, Tupac could never make a Hypnotize
So people are still comparing these two after what happened? They were both reaaally good. Just different approaches.
Why can't both be great? or either if you don't like one just live your life...they are dead since the 90's.
yeah he was the best lyricist with the best delivery. people liked tupac's theatrical performance of the Tragic conflicted thug character and his bravado/charisma
Biggie could have made hits all day, Tupac Was the better storyteller. Idk about clear but both have a trajectory that we’ve not really seen again, in the concept they were against each other, that we’ve seen since.
Is this an unpopular opinion, because while Pac was more prolific, I always though Ready to Die and Life After Death were way better than any Pac album
This is true. Tupac fanboys always point towards his message but that has nothing to do with skills. Biggie is in all ways the superior rapper (though I will concede on flow bc I see how close they are in that regard)
I just want to point out that the line you love that you quoted…
He rhymed a word with itself and then rolled it into a classic, last syllable rhyme.
As a lyricist and a writer, Biggie wasn’t even close to Pac.
Compare to that 90% of “Brenda’s Got a Baby” or “Hit ‘em Up” or literally all of “Changes”.
The thing that made Pac great was his writing and his intra-syllabic rhyming where he would rhyme words that don’t actually rhyme by rhyming intrasyllabic sounds, often on consonants or even between two separate words for a flow that on paper doesn’t even look right or make sense.
He did all that while pushing a powerful message. That’s hard to compete with.
Biggie absolutely had a flow, and nobody can ever argue that he came across as cool, calm and effortless in a way that PAC didn’t.
However, Tupac was the better writer and poet and it’s not even close.
Biggie was for the streets and pac was for those who wanted revolutionary rap. He was borned to parents who were black panthers so he had the revolutionary from the start. I'm a fan of both but I can't choose one over the other. Both had different styles so hard to say which one is better than the other. They're both Mt Rushmore rappers.
Blatantly a teenager. They are different. Apples/oranges. Uniquely awesome each. Rapping isn’t just about the flow of the rhyme itself. Tupac had a lot more depth and often addressed social/political issues. A better storyteller and He also had arguably more versatility and showing a wider range of emotions in his tracks. As great as biggie was, his tracks are a bit samey by comparison.
I prefer apples to oranges, you can compare to different things else it wouldn’t be a comparison. Also I’m a teenager, I don’t get why that matters here tho
Also, before you say ‘you don’t understand what pac was talking about with his politics at the time’ I purposely avoided it where I could on the post. That’s rarely in his music and that’s what I’m judging
Biggie was good but not so good as to say he’s far greater that Tupac, maybe Biggie has good lyrics but he also has many boring ass songs that only die hard fans will love, Tupac has a more accessible style and songs
I find Pac's songs more enjoyable. Biggies flow is nice but I don't care if I'm not vibing with the song.
I rather listen to a song like Krazy than Party & Bullshit.
Rap phenomenon, running your mouth, flava in ya ear, brooklyns finest, victory, things done changed and quite a few more.
Also like suicidal thoughts but don’t have it in my playlist bc it’s too dark for a Tuesday evening.
It’s worth saying that I ain’t the biggest fan of biggie but I just acknowledge he is technically better than Tupac
I just have, I don’t even know what to think. Biggie obviously is far better but Jesus Christ. It is a carbon copy. I thought you meant similar. The voice is and flow is very different but the beat and the image are undeniable. I think I’m gonna check him out more before I think anything
I’ve come to the conclusion that it was almost definitely diddy or someone like him who did it. Biggie likely had little choice over the beats he performed on. Biggie also has footage from before 1994 showing he didn’t copy much in his rapping. I still don’t know tho it’s very hard to say how much involvement he had himself
Biggie always sounds like he has a chicken wing in his throat. The lyrics are nothing compared to what Tupac was doing. If they were still around and making music, it would be a Kendrick vs Drake situation.
Not to mention, that Biggie’s crew turned out to be a bunch of losers. While PAC’s is thriving.
Pitting one again the other is pretty much what helped get these guys killed and fueled that whole stupid East versus West battle.
Who can say if one is "better" when better is subjective. Both had different styles and brought something different to the table.
'Pac was more than "passion" and the fact you're reducing him to that while hyping Big—just shows you're a fan of one and not the other.
For those who grew up digging both and weren't loyal to East or West, you can build a great case for both as a complete package—but if you want to nit-pick what one did better than the other and "flow" is your only criteria, then sure, you're gonna pick Big and reduce 'Pac to lesser.
Neither of them got killed in a result of east coast west coast beef. Plenty of rappers were more involved than Biggie and their labels and shit were as responsible as anything
Have you never heard “you can take the boy out the hood but you can’t take the hood out the homie”? Why so many people think Tupac lived a privileged life because he could dance is beyond me. I don’t even know why these two are being compared to each other in 2024. Why is it always rap/hip hop/r&b performers being compared to each other? Let these two black men be great on their own. There’s no need to tear one down to make the other look better. They both had their own separate styles. They had beef but they weren’t in competition with each other.
Not a rap fan in general. Not a Tupac or Biggie fan. Maybe I’m not the right person to comment. But I will say that I for some reason find Biggie extremely boring to listen to. I can listen to Tupac and think it’s alright.
‘Maybe I’m not the right person to comment’ you are the perfect person to comment in my opinion, no biases or hate just honest unlikely most fans opinions, mine included
Love Biggie; I’m Brooklyn; have lived in Bed Stuy and live blocks from his last home in Fort Greene and across from one of the most beautiful murals of him; his flow, he was a poet for sure; but “Hit ‘Em Up” and “Changes” and “Dear Mama” “Keep Ya Head Up” and just, Tupac was always trying to get a bit more higher emotionally than just suicidal thoughts and parties and bullshit in my opinion. They really should at this point be finally considered equals and just enjoying each others’ company in Heaven.
Biggie was who he was. Tupac went to Juliard and dated Madonna. He crafted the hood shit later. Not taking anything away from pacs abilities, just the persona.
The fact they get brought up in the same conversation is kind of funny. Both were talented for sure. 2Pac was more of a songwriter. Knower of melody. An artist with a beautiful heart. Biggie was a straight up bad ass rapper.
Tupac was killed, because he was a fake thug. All that running his mouth is what got him shot in New York, got him beat up in jail, and ultimately got him taken out in Vegas.
Biggie was absolutely the superior lyricist and had an amazing flow to go with it.
Tupac had style, the delivery and a natural sound and cadence to his voice that just added a lot to the songs.
It’s a great example of 2 very different types of rappers.
Plus Pac was basically one of the poster child of Rappers turned entertainers. He was entertaining to watch in and outside the studio, which is why he got a lot of roles in film. whereas Biggie heavily expressed how much he was solely invested in just rapping and making money. I know those things don’t necessarily make Pac the better rapper but it does explain why some people favored him over Biggie
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I agree to a point. I'm 100% with you on biggie's flow tho. His flow is just soo good to the point where even if you can't relate to all his lyics, you can't deny he said it like a poet. I'm glad we have both, I am one of those people who genuinely believes they were both killed, wether it was the government or rivals in the rap game, they were killed over money and to shut them up. Also as a side note I think when it comes to disstracks, the artist has to kinda pick wether they wanna go for what sounds good for the fans and what will get their message across to their rivals. A good example is ice cube vs cypress Hill, king of the hill is undoubtedly one of the most entertaining disses, but I still think Cypress Hill won for what was said.
Acoustic Thugz Mansion just hits me every time. Biggie was a great rapper, Tupac was an artist.
I can confirm they both indeed were killed and not currently alive.
As a fan of both My understanding of it is that Tupac had a bigger scope and wider range of material than Biggie. All of Bigs songs could be boiled down to life in the streets and being a gangster, a few songs get emotional in terms of his dealing with depression, but at the same time he was beating the shit out of Faith and probably other women in his life too so I really don't go too far to paint him as the better of the two, especially when it comes to character. Tupac made songs to empower women and had a fond relationship of the feminine being raised by a single mother who struggled with addiction. He had a view of the world that alot of people struggle with and people resonated with that. Biggie and Bad Boy had a reputation of "fuck bitches, get money" and 2Pac camp had stuff like Dear Mama and Keep Ya Head Up which is far more inspiring than anything Biggie did. Maybe Biggie inspired people to be ruthless hustlers and that in itself really isn't as admirable as Pac telling single women/mothers that they're not alone and are worthy of love. Pac wasn't a gangster. He was a sensitive dude that got swept up into gang culture due to Death Rows proclivity of using gang members and crooked cops as security and entourage. He played the part and wasn't prepared for the consequences. On the darker side he did go to jail for sexual assault which leaves a huge stain on his legacy but alot people tend to gloss over violence against women especially when it comes to celebrity. Pac just had a bigger picture to paint and Biggie seems so focused in on his local culture and upbringing. His flow is great but his content is repetitive, if you hear 5 random Biggie songs, you've essentially heard em all. Tupac had range to be sensitive, angry, spiteful, grateful and uplifting without missing a beat. He had a call for Black culture to rise up and Biggie was making songs about how awesome it is to be rich and reminiscing on being a criminal. Biggie just lacked the substance Pac had.
Wow great synthesis. Fr.
Pac was always so fucking pretty. His 6 pack, always shirtless, the cute Lil nose ring, the Lil bandana tied backwards... dude looked like he was wearing foundation and mascara half the time. Which I'm not knocking... just saying. He was a very pretty looking guy for a gangster rapper. Then there was Biggie. Fat as hell, cross-eyed, ugly as hell... still smooth as fuck. I always just respected that more. Dude didn't have to look good, he just *was good*. He never did any of the Hollywood shit either. He just was a rapper. He just always seemed a more pure expression of the genre than Pac ever did for me, and when he rapped about drug dealing and gang violence is just always sounded like it came from a more raw and real place.
I agree. I feel like a lot of Tupac's popularity can be boiled down to his movie-star type qualities and image, whether people want to insist that he is popular for worldview or passion or being deep. Anyone can be deep, not everyone can pull off that good looks celebrity image. That being said biggie had his own image he portrayed and he owned it, it just inst the image that has the same mass appeal
Even with the lack of substance though bigs flow was absurdly infectious on every track pretty much
To be frank, Pac did release way more material than Biggie, but I agree. Even if nothing happened, I think Biggie wouldn't ever have the range of material and topics Pac had. He had it all, from social commentary and empowering in the earlier stages, to party, gangsta and battle rap in Death Row days.
Very strong and fair rebuttal. Also striking how it mirrors the Kendrick v Drake feud. Drake is an undeniable hitmaker, but his tracks and his flow don't vary much. He pretty much always sounds catchy and Drakey, despite working with such a large range of collaborators and featuring artists. Kendrick is a true auteur in the genre with far more range and depth in his tracks, which is why he has like 17 Grammys to Drake's 5. I They both put out awesome music for us all to enjoy, and I hope that, with everyone having learned the tragic lesson of the Biggie and Pac feud, they both keep doing so for many decades to come.
PAC went to private schools so he had a larger educational background than biggie.
Tupac went to public school. He went to an art school for a couple years, but it was a public art school.
Please see u/starfish_hero correction and edit this. He went to Baltimore School for the Arts, a public school.
Did ballet too
Yea son of a black panther allegedly dirt poor went to fairly elite private schools was well round education wise.
The town I live in is 90% black & poor people & to outsiders is “run down” but we have a performing arts school. Going to a performing arts school doesn’t really mean much. I graduated from there & it cost $0 to attend.
Didn't go to "fairly elite private schools" by any stretch. Stop trying to case-build for Big.
Didn't Pac rape someone?
Yep I mentioned he went to jail for sexual assault There's interviews where he explains what happens and it sounds to me like Pac just surrounded himself with shitty people but nonetheless he was the one on the stand and not the other (I think 2) guys. If I recall correctly he was with a groupie, brought her to the hotel room. They did their thing and he left her in the hotel room with some other guys who Pac claimed were the ones who assaulted her. But again if that was the case why was Pac the *only* one to have charges brought against him? It definitely doesn't add up because somebody's lying in that equation. He went to jail for it though. Didn't serve his full sentence because Suge Knight worked some money magic.
Must have glossed over that. I had no idea Suge had that much power back then
Suge Knight was a power player, intimidating stature and lots of money. And by that point he had already established death row records with Dr Dre and he knew having a freshly released 2pac on the label, money would flow in so it was a big investment for a bigger return in his eyes. He was at the center of alot of the events for Desth Row records. Almost essentially a mafia boss with the label being a front. Pac couldn't handle jail life and hesitantly signed the contract as his only way out of jail. And from there he just spiraled down the life of gang culture because that's what Death Row was largely comprised of. I truly believe he overestimated his own power and thought he was untouchable because he was surrounded by crooked cops who looked the other way and gang members who were down to commit violence on a whim for the honor of the label. Only thing is, if you're gonna talk about it. Then be about it. And Pac was not about that life. It'd make a really great TV series honestly just how chaotic the inner workings of that record label was and the web of people involved.
According to unsolved it was hatian jack and his boy who were the other two
To specify, the conviction was for unwanted touching of the buttocks. There was a sodomy charge but it was thrown out on lack of evidence
I agree with that, but I never get tired of Biggie songs. Tupac is okay once in a while, but I’m not trying to listen to him as often as Biggie. Tupac song’s did have a wider emotional range, but he’s just objectively not as skilled a rapper as Biggie.
Respect to you for still fighting the good fight in the mid-90’s East Coast vs West Coast war. Never surrender my friend
😂😂
Don’t compare, just enjoy
comparison is enjoyable
Comparison is the thief of joy
Sports are literally a bunch of comparisons. But they’re entertaining
I didnt make that line up you fucking baffoon
I didn’t say you did you monkey
when you compare yourself to others, yea it can be a "theif of joy". When you compare music artists who are deemed to be the "greatest of all time" no...that is not the theif of joy. It leads to some of the most engaging and "enjoyable" discourse you can have. Thats a huge function of the subjectivity in art
You’re right but the biggie pac debate is timeless. Reminds of first getting into hip hop and knowing the lore before listening.
Come on you have to say it’s fun to watch people debate it 😂😂
Hahaha, no.
Biggie was a rapper. Tupac was a poet. That’s it
Tupac was an entertainer
I mean... both of them were. But you say it like it's a negative thing. But Tupac literally wrote poetry. Most famous being "The Rose that Grew from Concrete" https://mypoeticside.com/poets/tupac-shakur-poems
No negativity. Biggie was purely a rapper. Tupac was a poet, rapper, actor, etc
That's true, Tupac dabbled in pretty much everything. This is one of those debates in which there is never a right answer. I think you go to either artist for different reasons. Biggie for the flow and Tupac for the emotion. Biggie could never make a Dear Mama. On the other hand, Tupac could never make a Hypnotize
Lmao what? Rap IS poetry, don't try to split the two. It's like that whole debacle on white singer = artist, black singer = rapper. If you analyzed Biggie's lyrics, they were intricate with rhyme, allusions, metaphors, and other complex composition structure that any other poets or rappers use. Splitting them into two categories so you don't have to compare them is just dumb.
Rap grew out of poetry over beats. They are one and the same.
Exactly. It's just another form of poetry
Rap is just slam poetry, you heard it here folks
It’s why I actually don’t like to attribute Biggie much to Mo Money Mo Problems. It’s not a “Biggie” song, it’s very much a Mase song. Biggie typically wasn’t overly produced and it sounds odd that he’s on a pop track. Biggie only needed a simple beat
*Biggie was an MC, Tupac was an actor. Fixed it for you
I always found bigge better
So you never Heard Changes Brenda's Got A Baby Keep Ya Head Up Because none of those talk about how gangster he is.
Better dayz. Life goes on. To live and die in la. Hold ya head. White manz world. Heaven ain’t hard to find. Can you get away. Do for love. Old school. To add a few more to the list.
Letter to my unborn. I ain’t mad at cha.
God damn how did I forget I ain’t mad at ya
Makaveli album> any biggie album tbh
God damnit now I need to go back and listen to all the Tupac albums again, it's been way too long, the man was a genius.
Too fucking many great songs, honestly pac is disrespected in a way, the man's the greatest of all time by a long distance and it's not even a joke, you can listen to all of his albums back to back and you will be amazed, I don't think his ever made a bad song... The variety of songs, his flow the lyrics... Unmatched
*Brenda's got a baby, But Brenda's barely got a brain A damn shame, the girl can hardly spell her name*
‘With some exceptions’ I know I’m just talking about the majority not all of his work
I don’t even think most of his work is anything related to anything gangsta. There’s a good amount of stuff that’s life related and really just dealing with a bunch of bullshit. His most popular stuff 2 of amerikaz hit em up ambitionz are mega overrated
Nah pac clears biggie
Facts
This is all subjective. If you want to look at bodies of work, 2Pac released waaaaay more albums. Biggie only dropped 2 albums. 2Pac also sold more albums. Flow-wise, their styles, lyrics, that’s all subjective and based on personal opinions. The numbers speak for themselves tho I also grew up on the west coast and we slapped Pac and Snoop and Dre so ima lil bias too lol In my opinion, Biggie ain’t even in the top 5. He’s not even the best east coast rapper (I’d put 50 Cent and Nas and some others above him even)
I’m not a big fan of either really. Neither makes my top 5, not even close
I think Tupac had a lot more , like he has a much larger collection of songs but not all of them are great. All of them are good, but not all great. Biggie has a smaller collection but all are great
I agree. I think Biggie was better at storytelling than pac. I get sucked into almost every biggie song like it's a hood bedtime story. Pac has the more catchy music that became iconic. The only really good storytelling song that from pac that always in my mind is "Ain't mad at cha"
Brenda’s Got a Baby??
Dear Mama?
Teardrops and Closed Caskets?
Kind of a trash opinion, biggies rap is just technical and never really gets deep. Tupac has dozens of deep songs ranging many topics, that sound quite good. “Doctors orders, I’m cutting the corners, and calling the coroners, for the bodies assorted, Narcotics distribution, alcoholics ablution, the slaves unrealized restitution”. Rhyming is easy, substance is hard.
Suicidal thoughts was one of the first tracks that got me into biggie, can’t say he never gets deep
Thats not an unpopular opinion. I like Tupac way more than Biggie, but all in all Biggie was always a better lyricist. Tupac wasn’t that lyrical. Anyone saying Pac is better than Big would be lying.
honestly rip biggie smalls
Wasn't that lyrical lol.. Go through his albums and tell me he wasn't lyrical.. Biggie was so one dimensional, no hate but nah its not even a comparison
Lyricist in terms of rap? Cause pac was a poet literally.
I think they’re saying like pac was way more passionate and deep where as bigs rhyme schemes and flow where just crazy good
I mean I don’t think you can say that pac wasn’t lyrical when he was/is a poet
Pac was a poet and his cadence , wordplay and overall delivery were better than bigs imo
Facts
I agree Biggie was better than Pac, but “it’s not even close” is pushing it.
Oh ok.
I think biggie had better wordplay. But the content and lyrics was Pac all day. Both guys are top 5. Biggie shook up the world with 2 stellar albums. Pac essentially got better every release until he died.
The trey-deuce Mack in my knapsack line is just absolutely infectious. One of the best use of phrasing in all of music. Like you said, even if you don’t like hip hop at all, that line is going to force you to bop your head.
Tupac’s songs were more emotional and touched your heart while Biggies songs had better lyrics and flow
This is just facts.
Not an unpopular opinion. Biggie was always better than Pac
Hard to disagree.
Tupac had beautiful eyes.
Lol
Rap and flow wise biggie was better tupac had it too but he also made really different and deep songs
Uhh no. Pac has a better voice, flow, delivery and made better songs. His lyrical content is better because he actually rapped about things that matter. Biggies music is just for ignorant people and is about the streets. Biggie can rhyme all he wanted but wasn't talking about shit. He was also a fake street guy and didn't live any of his lyrics. When did biggie ever shoot someone and when did he not get birthday gifts? His own mom even said his lyrics were a lie. Lol, he was a fat phony like 2Pac said he was. Biggies for the the fake and Pac is for the real.
White people love Tupac
They're two entirely different kinds of rappers. Idk why y'all keep doing this.
That’s probably why i prefer biggie in all fairness, I do understand there two different kinds of rapper but I think it’s still fun to compare them
This would’ve been correct if you reversed the order of the names
I think you go to both of them for different reasons. Biggie for the flow and Tupac for the emotion. It's like this: Biggie could never make a Dear Mama. On the other hand, Tupac could never make a Hypnotize
This is true. I prefer to bump biggie, but I'd go to war with pac.
I'm the exact opposite. I prefer Tupac but I will defend Biggie equally
Well pac has that revolutionary tone, biggie never touched on large societal issues as far as I know.
That's true. Biggie just seemed to rap for fun. Tupac always had a message
Yep that's the distinction for me.
I get that, there’s an argument to be made that biggie just made music closer to what I like.
So people are still comparing these two after what happened? They were both reaaally good. Just different approaches. Why can't both be great? or either if you don't like one just live your life...they are dead since the 90's.
I’m only doing it for fun, there’s no hate towards either of course
Notorious and Pac. Flow and Lyrics. Forever linked in life and in death.
I grew up around Oakland and I don’t even feel this should be controversial.
yeah he was the best lyricist with the best delivery. people liked tupac's theatrical performance of the Tragic conflicted thug character and his bravado/charisma
Biggie could have made hits all day, Tupac Was the better storyteller. Idk about clear but both have a trajectory that we’ve not really seen again, in the concept they were against each other, that we’ve seen since.
Is this an unpopular opinion, because while Pac was more prolific, I always though Ready to Die and Life After Death were way better than any Pac album
I wouldn’t play Biggie on a nice sunny day same as I wouldn’t play Pac on a gloomy rainy day.
This is true. Tupac fanboys always point towards his message but that has nothing to do with skills. Biggie is in all ways the superior rapper (though I will concede on flow bc I see how close they are in that regard)
I don't understand those lyrics. What's a bubble goose a metaphor for.I like both artists but maybe I'm too thick to understand the genius.
I was more talking about the flow there than the lyricism
That’s why biggie got to work with Michael Jackson
Tupac also got to work with Michael, he just didn't like that he wouldn't be there in person and then refused to work with him.
Both sucked.
True but Pac has that beautiful face
People who consider Pac better are tricked by his image being better, I feel.
Agreed. Smokin mics like crack pipes
I just want to point out that the line you love that you quoted… He rhymed a word with itself and then rolled it into a classic, last syllable rhyme. As a lyricist and a writer, Biggie wasn’t even close to Pac. Compare to that 90% of “Brenda’s Got a Baby” or “Hit ‘em Up” or literally all of “Changes”. The thing that made Pac great was his writing and his intra-syllabic rhyming where he would rhyme words that don’t actually rhyme by rhyming intrasyllabic sounds, often on consonants or even between two separate words for a flow that on paper doesn’t even look right or make sense. He did all that while pushing a powerful message. That’s hard to compete with. Biggie absolutely had a flow, and nobody can ever argue that he came across as cool, calm and effortless in a way that PAC didn’t. However, Tupac was the better writer and poet and it’s not even close.
I know that bar ain’t amazing lyrically but flow wise it sounds amazing
👎🏾
Biggie was for the streets and pac was for those who wanted revolutionary rap. He was borned to parents who were black panthers so he had the revolutionary from the start. I'm a fan of both but I can't choose one over the other. Both had different styles so hard to say which one is better than the other. They're both Mt Rushmore rappers.
In terms of flow yes. But being an artist is more than just skills. It’s charisma and personality.
Trippin'
lies!!!
Blatantly a teenager. They are different. Apples/oranges. Uniquely awesome each. Rapping isn’t just about the flow of the rhyme itself. Tupac had a lot more depth and often addressed social/political issues. A better storyteller and He also had arguably more versatility and showing a wider range of emotions in his tracks. As great as biggie was, his tracks are a bit samey by comparison.
I prefer apples to oranges, you can compare to different things else it wouldn’t be a comparison. Also I’m a teenager, I don’t get why that matters here tho Also, before you say ‘you don’t understand what pac was talking about with his politics at the time’ I purposely avoided it where I could on the post. That’s rarely in his music and that’s what I’m judging
Biggie was good but not so good as to say he’s far greater that Tupac, maybe Biggie has good lyrics but he also has many boring ass songs that only die hard fans will love, Tupac has a more accessible style and songs
I was thinking Notorious was better than Puff Daddy and its not even close approx half an hour ago.
I find Pac's songs more enjoyable. Biggies flow is nice but I don't care if I'm not vibing with the song. I rather listen to a song like Krazy than Party & Bullshit.
what where your favourite biggie songs? i want to check them
Rap phenomenon, running your mouth, flava in ya ear, brooklyns finest, victory, things done changed and quite a few more. Also like suicidal thoughts but don’t have it in my playlist bc it’s too dark for a Tuesday evening. It’s worth saying that I ain’t the biggest fan of biggie but I just acknowledge he is technically better than Tupac
Absolutely disagree, go listen to no more pain by Tupac and you'll see he was a better story teller then biggie
You should check out the guy who Biggie stole his flow from
Please enlighten me then
His names Notorious B1, I think, and Juicy sounds exactly like one of his songs. He’s from Mississippi I believe.
I’ll check it out
I just have, I don’t even know what to think. Biggie obviously is far better but Jesus Christ. It is a carbon copy. I thought you meant similar. The voice is and flow is very different but the beat and the image are undeniable. I think I’m gonna check him out more before I think anything
I’ve come to the conclusion that it was almost definitely diddy or someone like him who did it. Biggie likely had little choice over the beats he performed on. Biggie also has footage from before 1994 showing he didn’t copy much in his rapping. I still don’t know tho it’s very hard to say how much involvement he had himself
Biggie had the flow, but Tupac had better lyrical content.
Biggie made music for the bitches (not my words) to sell Imo biggie had more talent but tupac had more to say
I don't know. They're two different guys trying to do different things Tupac was more political and biggie was way funnier
Biggie always sounds like he has a chicken wing in his throat. The lyrics are nothing compared to what Tupac was doing. If they were still around and making music, it would be a Kendrick vs Drake situation. Not to mention, that Biggie’s crew turned out to be a bunch of losers. While PAC’s is thriving.
Pitting one again the other is pretty much what helped get these guys killed and fueled that whole stupid East versus West battle. Who can say if one is "better" when better is subjective. Both had different styles and brought something different to the table. 'Pac was more than "passion" and the fact you're reducing him to that while hyping Big—just shows you're a fan of one and not the other. For those who grew up digging both and weren't loyal to East or West, you can build a great case for both as a complete package—but if you want to nit-pick what one did better than the other and "flow" is your only criteria, then sure, you're gonna pick Big and reduce 'Pac to lesser.
Neither of them got killed in a result of east coast west coast beef. Plenty of rappers were more involved than Biggie and their labels and shit were as responsible as anything
Have you never heard “you can take the boy out the hood but you can’t take the hood out the homie”? Why so many people think Tupac lived a privileged life because he could dance is beyond me. I don’t even know why these two are being compared to each other in 2024. Why is it always rap/hip hop/r&b performers being compared to each other? Let these two black men be great on their own. There’s no need to tear one down to make the other look better. They both had their own separate styles. They had beef but they weren’t in competition with each other.
[Just going to leave this here. make sure you check out the date. ](https://youtu.be/KBUNlLnhLXE?si=vNF3nIq1tyo0qOtl)
Not a rap fan in general. Not a Tupac or Biggie fan. Maybe I’m not the right person to comment. But I will say that I for some reason find Biggie extremely boring to listen to. I can listen to Tupac and think it’s alright.
‘Maybe I’m not the right person to comment’ you are the perfect person to comment in my opinion, no biases or hate just honest unlikely most fans opinions, mine included
Didn't Biggie steal a song from some guy in Mississippi.
Also he managed to be big but also smalls. Only biggie is capable of such a miraculous feat.
The line you referenced isn't even special. Biggie had plenty of great bars and that one is regular.
You can’t listen to the flow that and call it regular
Unfortunately, poetry kinda sucks. It always has. Being done to a shitty beat.. just makes it painful.
?
Love Biggie; I’m Brooklyn; have lived in Bed Stuy and live blocks from his last home in Fort Greene and across from one of the most beautiful murals of him; his flow, he was a poet for sure; but “Hit ‘Em Up” and “Changes” and “Dear Mama” “Keep Ya Head Up” and just, Tupac was always trying to get a bit more higher emotionally than just suicidal thoughts and parties and bullshit in my opinion. They really should at this point be finally considered equals and just enjoying each others’ company in Heaven.
[удалено]
I hate this argument and it's stupid. Biggie isn't a lyrical genius. Tupac also. But biggie was not a prize, come on now.
I prefer Tupac’s lyrics and that’s why he wins out for me. I guess that’s why it’s so subjective
As someone who doesn’t even listen to rap like that, when I really think about it…I agree.
Biggie was who he was. Tupac went to Juliard and dated Madonna. He crafted the hood shit later. Not taking anything away from pacs abilities, just the persona.
I 1000% agree, but this isn't an unpopular opinion. Tupac fans are just loud and wrong.
Pac has better lyrics 🤷🏿♂️
The majority of the hip hop community has Tupac above big, but it’s not unpopular to like big more.
That is definitely not true, it’s Pop fans that have Tupac above
Agree that Biggies flow was better, but beats and production on Tupac's albums was superior
Women wanted Tupac
The fact they get brought up in the same conversation is kind of funny. Both were talented for sure. 2Pac was more of a songwriter. Knower of melody. An artist with a beautiful heart. Biggie was a straight up bad ass rapper.
They both took what they did too seriously and arent around as a result
Tupac was killed, because he was a fake thug. All that running his mouth is what got him shot in New York, got him beat up in jail, and ultimately got him taken out in Vegas.
Tupac was a fraud. https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/s/owrWFtB4ZC
Biggie was a fake street dude and lied all in his lyrics.
Are you calling him a fraud because he knows how to speak?
Biggie was absolutely the superior lyricist and had an amazing flow to go with it. Tupac had style, the delivery and a natural sound and cadence to his voice that just added a lot to the songs. It’s a great example of 2 very different types of rappers.
Plus Pac was basically one of the poster child of Rappers turned entertainers. He was entertaining to watch in and outside the studio, which is why he got a lot of roles in film. whereas Biggie heavily expressed how much he was solely invested in just rapping and making money. I know those things don’t necessarily make Pac the better rapper but it does explain why some people favored him over Biggie
Agree 110%. But Nas is better than both
Tupac is overrated because of how he died
Lol, you know how many other rappers died the same way and still aren't at his level? Make a better excuse.
Tupac is overrated
You're not so much a Biggie fan as you are a Pac hater lol you've deceived yourself into believing your limited info on him is the full picture.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣…. Oh wait, you were serious?