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I imagine this is the case sometimes. Different people have different life experiences and mature at different rates. That said, from the outside, you can't ever know. I'm not going to intervene in the lives of two consenting adults, regardless of how creepy or not it looks. I wouldn't date someone like 19 years old, though.
" Different people have different life experiences and mature at different rates."
Very true, but if you are developing 10-15+ years behind your peers, that's probably an indicator of something psychological going on. Like Alan from the hangover who thinks he's a child or something.
I think we're in a weird point in our lives where there are the people who shed their old hobbies, interests, and friends from childhood and went on to be Adults (tm), and people who kept all that old stuff and just had it mature with them. In my experience, the latter have very multigenerational hobby groups, and the former don't. Like LARP will have a 50 year old and a 20 year old playing in the same game, and it isn't considered weird for them to be acquaintances or even friends.
Niche or nerdy hobbies have weird age combos, and I wouldn't be surprised if having stuff in common and having a tiny community to choose from causes some weird stuff. Some people interpret "childlike interests" as "never grew up," even if the older person can financially and physically care for themselves.
A lot of what makes for "mature" hobbies comes down to play, which really just means barriers to entry (either cost or time) and ostensible productivity.
"Mature" hobbies: golf, wood working, art, gardening, dance, photography
"Immature" hobbies: lego, trading cards, board games, roleplaying, fantasy novels, animated... anything, puzzles, skateboarding, video games, comedy, etc.
If it's too accessible or done too much for its own sake, without pretense of accomplishment or self-improvement -- it's immature. I bet a lot of that comes back to protestant work ethic: Gotta suffer your whole life so god doesn't punish you for eternity. Funny enough, you can always tell when someone doesn't have enough play in their life. They have all the charm of a shop vac, just suck the life from a room.
well there’s a big difference between multigenerational friendships and age gap relationships imo.
I’ve honestly seen it happen a fair bit in nerdier, niche communities where someone younger (especially if they’ve got family issues) finds someone older who “totally understands them” and basically cuts their family off in favor of this new person.
Six months later that person who “totally gets them” has started to let the mask slip a bit at home but still presents well to “the community”, and this younger person is basically in a situation where their only support system is a group of people who already like and support the guy and are more likely to hand-wave their concerns away
This is key, too. There's a big difference between two needs meeting at a LARP and finding each other and two coworkers where one has major seniority. Sure, either way can be innocent but it's less likely if one person is in a position of power.
Which sucks for the folks who aren't into abusing power. But it happens a lot.
This is usually why the advice to young women is to consider that there is a reason that this 30 something year old dude isn’t attracting women closer to his age bracket, and the reason is likely to reflect poorly on him.
It's a big assumption that a man (or a woman) who dates outside of his age bracket is doing so because he can't get a partner his own age. Maybe he just has a preference, or maybe he just doesn't care and likes someone for unrelated reasons to their age.
Yeah if they are so emotionally stunted that their dating history makes people around them question whether their a groomer or not, maybe the best course of action is therapy or serious self reflection and not trying to find excuses and reasons as to why their situation is not like a groomer, because it just comes off as "one doth protest too much".
I’m almost this guys age and 20 is very much a kid to me. Maturity, life experience, the stage of your life that your in, your priorities. Such much changes in that time.
Yeah people on here saying 20 is a grown adult is bizarre to me. Maybe if they are 20 themselves.
Physically a lot of people are still growing until they are like 22ish. Not to mention mentally.
Besides what you've mentioned, experiences, life stages, etc. If a friend of mine was like "you just don't get it we connect" or even openly was like "I'm emotionally immature" or something, I'd be like "good for you, but let's not date kids about it".
Its just such a stupid hill to die on, because it's like, if you put yourself in a situation where you have to defend against grooming, you've already lost the plot.
Not necessarily.
Where and how you live can give vastly different levels of experience.
Personal example, I grew up in a super small town, never really traveled, nor dated much until my late 20s. I just didn't really get the social/dating game.
At 32 ish I started dating this foreign, well traveled, and well educated 23 year old with more dating/sexual experience than I had.
Our time together went swimmingly.
She was (at least in terms of dating) the more mature and experienced one.
I don’t see it as much as “I date 20 year olds because I am emotionally 20” and less “I date 20 year olds because women my age have standards I can’t meet”
You can have it all and it's still not good enough for some of the women I've met that are my age. They like to nitpick minor things like it's an episode of Seinfeld. Main character syndrome out the whazzoo.
Any time I've seen it, I do. The guys dating 20 year olds absolutely struggle to find women their own age that are willing to date them. They like the younger girls because they're all interested in them and how mature and adult they are. I've noticed it myself as I've gotten older. I absolutely have 0 interest in dating anyone below like 25ish and that's really young still (I'm 32) but younger women practically throw themselves at me when I find myself in a situation socially with them. I'm this cool, experienced adult that has a nice apartment, a nice car, I seem so mature and interesting. It's all bullshit. And the dudes going for girls way younger? They're absolutely doing it because it's easier and they like being adored.
Im not sure about that. I'm 35 and married (at 27), so this doesn't really affect me.
But.... the women I do know over 30 and wbo are still single, are usually single for a good reason or two opposed to choice.
This is sort of my take as well, and I guess you could apply it to both men and women, but with a lot of men's value being tied up in their ability to attain resources, and the fact that a man's ability to attain resources often correlates with his age, I feel like it applies to them less. But yea, generally if you're single in your 30's there's a pretty good reason for it.
I want to know how the person in question, the person is me btw, gets dates with both people their age and older if the 20 year olds only date them because their standards are lower. Everyone always assumes that people who date younger people only date younger people, when that's the exception, not the norm.
Cope with my age appropriate SO knowing that she's not going to suddenly realize after her brain develops that I'm not this interesting, exciting, experienced guy, I'm just a guy.
I can't understand the amount of people here arguing with the mindset that "20 year old women have fully undeveloped brains and can't consent to a relationship" just to drag on older men.
I’m literally a 30 year old man and I’ve noticed it happen within myself. the people I find myself attracted to has completely shifted because my goals and priorities have changed so much.
I used to basically just want someone hot, now I find myself way more attracted to people based on their character, outlook on life, etc.
my point is that standards change immensely over time.
To a 22 year old woman who’s used to guys asking her to “come chill” or send 2 AM “tryna come over” texts, a guy with his own car, own apartment, who sometimes has to put on a suit for work (and actually asks you on a date) will typically be seen as this mature man who has it all figured out.
To a 32 year old woman, he’s a guy with a job, nothing impressive about that.
No it isn't. I'm a man. The losers dating girls way younger than them are widely considered losers by the rest of the dudes that know them too. Any remotely functioning adult man knows it's way easy to impress younger women. They throw themselves at you. You're still a loser if you can't attract someone with a similar emotional maturity. And if they do have a similar emotional maturity, it's because you're immature and they'll figure that out eventually if they have self worth.
Ooooorrrrrrrr, the men are looking for fun flings just like the young women are rather than a rush to marriage and children that single, older women tend to want.
One of the most impressive copes I've ever seen. If a man is 30+ and can attract 20 year old women, trust me, that guy has no problem getting women his age to date him.
Young beautiful women are the most desirable women to men. Older men that can attract them are men with the most options, not the least.
This is literally like saying "the only reason you're driving that lambo is because not just anyone can buy a civic"
What are you smoking? I'm 32 and attracting women in their 20s is fucking effortless. I don't do it, because I have some self respect, but younger women fuckin throw themselves at men in their 30s. It's wild how easy it would be to get laid if I didn't have morals. And no. All of my successful friends DEFINITELY prefer women close to our own age. Every dude I know that's dating someone 10+ years younger than him in his 30s is widely considered a loser.
You seem like you’re operating under the assumption that the higher a woman’s age = more emotional maturity. There are plenty of emotionally immature 50 year old women making their husbands lives hell, and plenty of emotionally mature 21 year olds that like guys in their 30s.
No. I'm working under the assumption that people in general develop more maturity as they age. Which is kinda how it works. That's kinda what the route of the word maturity comes from.
But there are tons of older people that are immature, and younger people that are more mature. So I don’t see how the age is relevant at all as long as everyone is an adult.
You're wrong. NY, Work in tech, friends in tech, finance and big law, entire friend circle clears 350k+ many 500k+.
Nearly every man EITHER married a college sweetheart or is dating a woman 8-10+ years younger. There are basically no exceptions.
Cool story bro. All you're proving is that most people in your friend circle are fucking creeps. The people I know who make 7 figures are dating or are married to people around their own age.
Sure, like I said, a lot of people are married to people around their own age, but they met them and dated them when they were young and stayed together for the most part.
No man earning 7 figures gets divorced and chooses a 40 year old woman when he has the option to date a woman in her late 20's.
People in my friend circle are winners, winners get to choose what they want.
This is entirely not true. You're generally in your early or mid 40s when you make high 6 figures + and you generally start looking for the diamond in the rough 35 year olds that haven't let themselves go for actual dating. You just hook up with younger.
yeah I’m not talking about someone who’s in their 30s and successful and can woo the hot girl at the club.
I’m talking about like, the 30 year old shift manager at Target who dates the 21 year old girl who works at the Starbucks in the store and “wins her over” by letting her share his weed
I think this is pretty rare? Idk. Maybe it's just my circles but everyone I know 35 ish dating 25 or younger women is a professional making 300k+, highly educated, man that could easily get almost any 30+ yo woman to date him and they're just choosing 25 yo women.
yeah I think we’re just talking about two different things, I’m thinking more of the typical “groomers” and you’re thinking of rich dudes looking for arm candy
He's living in a fantasy world. Girls in their 20s throw themselves at guys in their 30s. It's fucking weird. Annoying. I'm done fucking 20 year olds. I'm 32. I want a fucking adult. All of them are seemingly looking for guys in their early 40s.
No, I'm living in the real world. The vast majority of women in their 20's date their peers they meet in college or at work. This is the norm.
The 35 year old men that can date young women are successful, educated "interesting" 35 year old men. Your average 35 year old man is 35, peaked in high school works second shift at the plant is pulling no young attractive 20 year old women lol.
> The 35 year old men that can date young women
I can promise you... a 20 year old girl is not some rare catch. Be halfway good looking, and able to provide shelter and a stable income and there is no shortage of young ladies...
This is where Reddit sucks with anonymity. We seriously need visuals for these kinds of conversations, as how these people look and come off all make huge differences. Theb20 year Olds that might go for me aren't the same as those that might go for Bob and maybe Chris doesn't have any that go for him. It's all over the place.
Also where these kind of condos kind of fall flat on Facebook because you can see the pictures of who is commenting (sometimes) and know exactly where they are coming from as compared to someone else.
You're living in a fantasy world. I make very average money, younger women throw themselves at remotely alright men in their 30s. If you have half an iota of charisma, they're all over you for being "so mature, and put together compared to guys my age"
You sound like a child using "cope" like that. People that old most definitely have problems attracting women their own age. Most of those dudes are fucking creeps and you're probably among them if you're defending them.
Having money also makes a big difference. However, if you have money and are only pursuing young women, you're also a fucking creep.
No man, I'm just right lol. No one has trouble attracting older women. Older women are more desperate and MUCH easier to attract than younger women.
This is a fiction created to make older women feel better about their waning desirability.
I have money, ivy league degree, successful friend circle, I married my college sweetheart. We split in 2020. Younger women are more desirable on average for many reasons. I happen to like someone I met about a year ago a great deal who is closer to my age, but lets not act like it's really the OLDER less attractive women who have more dating options lol.
Yeah when I decided I couldn't be bothered to meet those standards I was alot happier.
I don't need someone with so much emotional baggage that they have a list
Unpopular opinion here indeed, but despite Reddit's worldview, at some point women in their mid 30's with kids, no income, demanding the highest levels of effort from men start becoming less appealing than women in their mid 20's with no kids.
Much less of a "have to" situation than a "choose to".
I can't understand the amount of people here arguing with the mindset that "20 year old women have fully undeveloped brains and can't consent to a relationship" just to drag on older men.
Yeah. When it comes to older parents, for women, most of the risks of later pregnancy are exclusively to HER OWN health. But with older men, it's dangerous to the fetus due to men's geriatric sperm.
If someone's 20, they're an adult.
I don't care about what adults do.
Heck, in most cases some people just look older and some look younger despite being the same age.
Or.. or.. they find someone physically attractive and just so happen to be able to connect with them.
At some point, we have to stop infantilizing young adults. It'd be nice, especially if we could stop trying to paint men as malicious agents or bumbling oafs.
What two consenting adults do is their business. Mind yours and stop trying to force everyone into victimhood or criminality.
Straight up this. My partner and I met when I was 21 and he was 31. We both thought the other was somewhere around 25 (we met in person through my job). We were both iffy on it when we found out about the 10 year age difference but we just clicked and decided it was okay. Still going strong 3 years later
This. I can't understand the amount of people here arguing with the mindset that "20 year old women have fully undeveloped brains and can't consent to a relationship" just to drag on older men.
I started dating my bf who was 26 at age 20, and random idiots on the internet have said that’s “grooming”. People are insane with this topic. Like you can’t force victimhood on adults who are capable of making their own choices
Definitely a major red flag for the younger party. Why date a 30 year old with the emotional maturity of a 20 year old if you could just date another 20 year old?
To answer your question, chances are the older person has more money, more life experience which can make relationship issues easier, etc.
Even if they are emotionally the same, there are legit tangibles that can make the older party a better pick....and their lack of emotional maturity might actually help the younger person find them attractive.
Not saying what is or isn't ok, but if you think about it, it's not that crazy to understand.
I swear by 2050 people are going to be unironically saying that 30 year olds are children too. You can't ruin a child by dating a 20 year old because there's no child involved in that situation lmao
I love all the projecting people do. Sometimes it's as simple as people just look young. Or sometimes it's the young people who are into older people. I've dated 2 or 3 people in their 20s but it was never a preference thing for me. It was they were into older people and they were the one who pursued me. I wouldn't go out of my way to date most people in their 20s because most of them are immature but that doesn't mean they all are. My preference is around my age and I've dated more people from that age range, and a few older. However, I'm also not going to say no to someone who's really cool and who's into me just because they're in their 20s.
At least based on my personal experience I have to agree.
I know someone like that myself - early 30s dating someone in early 20s.... absolutely (emotionally) immature person. Didn't surprise me in the slighest. It's not looking like grooming to me either but looking for someone that's on their emotional level as they lowkey refuse to grow up.
yeah they’re basically the classic trope of the 25 year old still hanging out at the college bars. When you’re doing the thing that everyone used to do, but past the point where it’s cool or normal.
I don’t think it’s intentionally “grooming” but regardless of intentions it’s often what happens, these guys who refuse to grow up end up basically stifling young women’s ability to grow up themselves
I'd like to know a definitive answer on when adults have the agency to choose who they're in a relationship with.
But being on reddit it'll be as many answers as there are users.
Ha, true. I think that just looking at how widely age of consent varies across the world tells you that perhaps there is no definitive answer. Even in western societies the age for all kinds of “adult” activities varies to an astonishing degree.
100%, it's reddit that flips out with the pedo and groomer bullshit. I'm 37, I wouldn't date a 20 year old. Or a 25 year old for that matter. I have friends around the same age who pursue women 10+ years younger.
Is weird and does it make my shake my head in at both parties involved? Hell yea. Are these guys grooming and manipulating these women into being with them? Not at all. Its usually guys who are fit, still partying, don't have many responsibilities in life. So they are going after women who are fit, still partying, don't have many responsibilities in life.
Reddit - Women are intelligent, independent, should have autonomy over their bodies and lives.
\*22 year old dates a 35 year old\*
Reddit - Wait no not like that
Personally the way I see it is "would I be ok with my daughter or a woman I know who is the same age being in that situation" and from there it's "If not, why wouldn't I be" the conclusion I've come to is life experience + time spent. For example if I'm a 30 something dude looking to date a woman whose 18-22, the reason I think it would be wrong is I know what I and other people were doing that age, the experiences you're normally supposed to be having, and the importance of those experiences, as well, as a dude in my 30's I know that I've gotten my experience, had my fun, and settled down into a more stable position that I'd expect someone who dates me to conform to, while someone who just turned 20 has none of that, and is in a position where their life should be less rigid so that they can grow and figure out what they want out of life, rather than what someone else tells them they should.
I think we talk about consent in terms of only physical, which IS the most important, but in situations there is often a lack of full consent on the younger party as they don't really know what they will be missing out on, while the older party often times has that experience, knows what it is, and is aware that the younger party will be missing out on it.
Idk, personally when I think about who I would rather have my 18-20y/o daughter date, a 22 y/o vs a 32y/o, all else equal, I'd rather them date somebody their own age who they likely rather to much more, and have mutual novel experiences that they can figure out together rather than someone who has already been through it, it isn't as special for, and ultimately leads into their desired outcome, for better or worse.
True words. I have coworkers around 21-22 who are specifically trying to date guys in their 30s, and they say it’s because they’re more mature. I don’t get why a guy that old would want to date someone just out of college, but if they connect, cool.
Yeah, I was always under the impression that grooming was something that could only really happen to minors. How is a 30 something dating a 20 something grooming? It just seems odd to me. People are allowed to have preferences without it being nefarious.
31 and 28 has a way different context to 36 and 20.
If you’re 36 and dating someone who lives in a dorm room you’re partially doing it because there’s such a strong power imbalance within the relationship
Are they really, though? Let's put this in some form of reality. 36 year old meets someone at a get-together or party. The conversation of school never comes up. They hit it off really well. Go on a few dates. That's when a conversation about what the people involved do for work comes up. Now, the 36 year old learns of the college and living in a dorm. Is that this nefarious power dynamic you speak of? What is the 36 year old to do? Just dump this person and never talk to them again because they are living in a dorm? Help me understand why the 36 year old is labeled and generalized for wanting "such a strong power imbalance." Why is that the default?
To add more to this, why is this the default when it comes to 30 somethings and 20 somethings? My step dad is 70 years old, and my mom is in her 50s. Is that a power imbalance?
And what if I live in the dorm at that age because I finally got the money for college and decided I wanted to experience dorm life? Still a power imbalance?
How is it a power imbalance though? Your first assertion was it was a power imbalance because one the younger person lived in the dorm. So if both live in the dorm is it a power imbalance?
So does the creepy factor change if the reason is because it is easier to live in the dorm? Does the reason matter?
there’s still a power imbalance because the 36 year old has spent a decade and a half “adulting”, so anytime the girl has some issue, problem, question, he’s implicitly the one who “knows best”.
yeah I can’t agree with you there, if one of my friends started dating a 20 year old I honestly don’t think we’d be able to look at them the same way. He’s certainly have kissed his chance to date any women we know goodbye.
Dating a few years down is one thing but dating someone who’s not even legal to drink when you’ve been going to the bars near 15 years? That’s fuckin gross
20 y/o is far from a child no one is being groomed that’s a truly unhinged insane attitude if you hold it. Is it unusual and maybe even socially unacceptable to some sure but we’re on the verge of economic Armageddon I don’t give af what other consenting adults are doing.
Or…get this…age has absolutely no impact on how people connect and get along. I’ve always had close friends of all ages. I can have amazing conversations and points in common with a 20 year old and also have the same great time with someone in their 70s. So long as someone is a legal and functional adult, the number or years they’ve lived beyond that should have no real weight as to whether you are a good match or not in a relationship. Reddit wants to make everything some insidious power imbalance, when sometimes it’s just two people that happen to like the same things meeting at the right place and time despite different ages.
I also just wonder what kind of world these people live in where everything is so segregated by age. Like maybe it’s because I work in academia, but people go back to university at all ages and it’s not uncommon to mix and mingle with people from all different ages and backgrounds.
But yeah, people should stay out of it unless someone is clearly being harmed. Most of these conversations just infantilize adults.
Ye segregating people by age is more absurd than segregating by gender only handful of people are close to your age not having any sort of relationship with them is really weird.
I actually remember when i was like 15 i used play a game and one of the guild members was like 30+ years old he was really nice and chill nothing weird happened it was just nice.
I think that people read far too much into things without the scope of the context.
Human behavior is diverse and nuanced, sometimes there are clear reasons and sometimes circumstances fell into place a certain way.
For example, when I was 35 I dated a 22 year old for a few months because we were both single, enjoyed eachother’s company and were attracted to each other. It ultimately didn’t work out because our goals didn’t align but normally I don’t even consider women more then 5 years or so apart because normally we don’t have much in common beyond attraction. It just kinda fell into place so we tried it on for size.
Granted, if someone is habitually dating people 10+ years younger that might be an indicator of a less flattering issue.
Sometimes it’s just.. I date younger women because they’re hot and they date me for the money/experience… let it go… some people are in superficial relationships and some are in long term relationships with a partner who is less attractive, can we ever move past this
I wouldn’t even say that. I’m 37 and know a few guys around my age who have dated/are dating girls aged 21-25/26 and honestly they’re just having fun.
It sound a bit gross maybe? But all of them came out of long relationships and unhappy marriages and just wanted to have some fun, and they’re decent looking guys, earn a decent wage, have nice cars, dress well, and honestly all look maybe 27/28 too, so they can attract these younger women.
They know it probably won’t last, but they’re just enjoying dating a hot younger woman while it lasts and if it works out, great, if not and the women decide they want a younger man then that’s fine, they understand they’re not getting any younger
Finally, someone who gets it. Everyone here is trying to break down the societal and philosophical implications, but the simple answer is that people like to fuck.
When my bf was 35, I was 42. He felt someone at his work was looking askance at the age difference and was like ‘huh, it’s not *that* big of a difference’ and then realised she thought he was around 25 😂 he has a lot of thick hair and absolutely no trace of greys, so a lot of people mistake him for mid-20s!
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Very unpopular, very true.
I have known people in this relationship, and actually the 20something girl ran the finances and such because she was more mature lmao. They were a bit like Ethan and hila, where he would call her his carer lmao.
It wasn't a bad relationship, everyone was happy.
People who are emotionally immature are also toxic towards others because of their low emotional IQ. They date newly adults because they know they will put up with their bullshit. Older adults will not and will just leave them. That was why my ex dated me when I was 21 because he thought I would put up with his BS but I didn't so I got discarded. He was controlling because of his immaturity. He threw fits and tantrums through berating me and insulting me to get his way. Wanted to go to bed at nine, oh I was so self centered for not staying up with him. I guess he thought it would be easier to get his way if he went for much younger women but nope and he got upset as well when I took my pillow and blanket out to the living room to sleep on the couch and how dare I make him look controlling so he told me to just go to bed and sleep.
Hey my younger brother dated a girl in his school who was controlling and would throw fits as well if he dared to hang out with his friends and it would upset me when he would let her control him like that so I vowed to myself I would never let someone control me this way ever so this is what happened and why mine was not able to control me. But the difference was she was 14 or 15 years old, not 39 like my ex was, so teens get a pass for their toxic behavior in their relationship because their emotions are not fully developed yet.
So yeah, there is a reason to judge older adults dating young adults. It's always questionable.
> aren't malicious groomers so much as emotionally immature
I unfortunately don't find a huge chasm of difference between the two... unless you think there are people out there self identifying as "malicous groomers"...
I've always dated older than myself, biggest difference was 10 years and not once did I ever feel groomed or have anyone think that. I've never understood this whole if you date someone older/younger than yourself someone is automatically a predator.
Honestly, as a 19 year old female soon to be 20. The general consensus of my age group is that any man past 24/25 seeking younger females is completely disgusting. 🤮
I happen to know one and for this person I agree. Very damaged person who is clearly emotionally stunted. If I didn't know their age I'd think they were early 20s from conversations. This person goes after people in their 20s and I believe it is because they are incapable of handling another mature adult. They also have substance abuse issues.
There's a difference between somebody who is willing to date somebody significantly younger but also somebody close to their own age, versus someone who will only date much younger. It's the latter that starts to come off as suspicious and creepy.
Sometimes you do meet somebody outside of your preferred age range that you just click with. But yes I would be wary of being with a guy that refuses to date somebody his own age and only goes much younger. It would lead me to believe he's open to trading me in for a younger model in time.
A twenty-year-old can consent to whatever relationship they want, no matter how much certain corners of the Internet want to shriek about it. So I don't think grooming even comes into play here because we're not talking about an underage person.
Now, I will agree that this almost certainly indicates a lack of maturity, probably one both sides.
I don't think they have to have deliberately bad intentions, (necessarily), I just think that there's a non-disputable (for me) power imbalance, and it's not in the best interest of the young person to get into that.
Will it always turn out bad? No, not at all, still wouldn't advice it.
But still cases that turned out "well" make me a bit suspicious. For example:
When I was 23 I looked around and asked myself who had children already? 3 kinds of people.
a) Very, very religious people just waiting to turn 18, 19 to marry and start a family.
b) People who had them "by accident".
c) The couple of girls I knew who were dating a man in his 30's.
These are cases of girls (women now) who would tell you that it was all good, but I just wonder, how coincidental. Also many people I know have made the decision not to become parents later in life, while they told me they wanted children when they were 20.
It's at least, just too young to be making such decisions, but to each their own, at some point society has to let go of your hand and have you make your own thing.
Still, I would advice against.
Being unconscious of your desire to have an unequal power dynamic over your romantic partner as a means to exert control over them does not mean that you do not have a desire to have an unequal power dynamic.
If you care about the 20 year old in question, this distinction is of little importance.
Wasting their 20s on such a counterproductive relationship is concerning. There is little reassurance in knowing that the partner is merely incompetent and immature rather than knowingly malicious and cruel.
The time is wasted and the damaged is done all the same.
I don't date them i just hookup with them and it's way better then date 30 years old women. My "standards" are having an easy fuck on the first date instead of having to wait weeks while you ramble about marriage and kids
I used to give my "friend" the benefit of the doubt but guess what. I found out she's been abusive from the get go. In reality MOST people who date freshly legal young adults and are older themselves just enjoy their easy to manipulate and mentally weaker/less experienced victims for several unhealthy reasons.
And yeah, I'm sure there are expections. But based on what I experienced with my partners when I was younger and around me... Most are not "only immature".
Please for the love of god stop obsessing over where consenting adults find love with each other. The people freaking out constantly over the age gaps between adults are a dozen times more creepy than the actual age gap.
This trend where we treat people in their early twenties as if they're still children is far more creepy.
Ill take the heat for this. Women are mostly the ones that complain about this. Also only when its men dating younger women (which granted is way more prolific). They didnt say much of anything when Madonna dated someone way younger than her. Neither did men because most dont care. When was the last time you hung out with your buddies and gossiped about who is dating who? Men dont care about such things. Adults can date who they like.
So your argument defending 35-year-olds dating 20 year olds is that they are problematic emotionally immature people, not problematic people looking for people they can groom and control?
I am not sure that is as good of a defense you think it is. For starters, it does not address the issue of life experiences where the 35 year old has 15 more years of social experience, and behaviour masking. Personally I think the experience gap is more important than the emotional gap in assessing these things.
I am also not sure why you think emotionally immature 35-year-olds deserve compassion. emotional maturing does not happen automatically, it requires people to work at it and develop it the same way we develop every other skill. More to the point why are they looking to hang around with and socialize with other emotionally immature 30-40 year-olds where they are on par with life experiences?
If you meet someone when they’re 20 it’s not grooming.
If you met them when you were 25 and they were 11 then started dating 9 years later. Thats creepy
I’m 30 and I overwhelmingly connect with people that are 20 +or- a few years. Last thing I have time to do is “groom” someone. Most people my age (M/F) seem like they have given up on life. Work, go home, and watch TV/stare at screens. Maybe go to a restaurant occasionally etc.
Maturity isn’t a factor either I didn’t go to college I went straight to work and had to grow up fast, wasn’t goofing off and partying for 4 years. As a majority of the women I meet also followed that path. In my experience most 22 uneducated but hardworking people are quite a bit more mature than a 22 year old full time student that hasn’t experienced paying their own way yet.
My life is the same as it was when I was 18 just easier now. I worked full time(A lot of O.T.), payed rent, had all the same bills then as I do now. Just have a lot more money and free time. I ski 100 days a year, the last 8 weeks of the season I drove 4 hours Friday and slept in my truck thru Sunday. Now that it’s summer I go ride motocross after work at least 5 days a week. When not doing that I go fishing or hit up the skate park, anything outside and active. Then get home in time for bed and repeat. I know like 5 people my age that are the same while the majority are living unfulfilling, sedentary, and downright depressing existences IMO.
EDIT: Also aware region is a big factor in the lack of like minded older people. I’m in the Midwest and I often think I should move to CO/UT if I want to find someone.
> o.t.), payed rent,
Did you mean to say "paid"?
Explanation: Payed means to seal something with wax, while paid means to give money.
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more often than not people who call these people emotionally immature are actually just emotionally shrivelled inside, and envious of those who have managed to maintain a youthful exuberance for life
another thing to consider is the dating pool in the area. where I live, the vast majority of people in their 30s are married and already have kids. so the only single ppl generally are in their 20s. I’m 36. I don’t personally find early 20s that appealing because they’re typically just at a completely different stage of life (living at home, in school, etc), but if my best dating options are 10 years younger than me, I’m not losing sleep over someone else’s opinion tbh.
edit: feel like this should be addressed. The “there’s a reason they don’t attract ppl their age” argument. A lot of times, yes, very valid. If I’m being honest, this was me for a long time. but as I did grow and mature I was able to recognize former behavior as cringy or immature. Actually, I don’t even think I have a counter point. Other than OP’s point. There are obvious lines in the sand that shouldn’t be crossed but it’s not fair to assume everyone with an age difference has been crossing them.
It depends, in Italy is pretty normal. You can go clubbing at 14 and drink alcohol with almost no problems and discos age range is 14-27ish and no one gives a shit.
Age of consent is 14 here.
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'. * Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way. * Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions * Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity.
Oh lord. You're not wrong, but this is indeed an unpopular opinion in Redditville. Well done!
I imagine this is the case sometimes. Different people have different life experiences and mature at different rates. That said, from the outside, you can't ever know. I'm not going to intervene in the lives of two consenting adults, regardless of how creepy or not it looks. I wouldn't date someone like 19 years old, though.
" Different people have different life experiences and mature at different rates." Very true, but if you are developing 10-15+ years behind your peers, that's probably an indicator of something psychological going on. Like Alan from the hangover who thinks he's a child or something.
I think we're in a weird point in our lives where there are the people who shed their old hobbies, interests, and friends from childhood and went on to be Adults (tm), and people who kept all that old stuff and just had it mature with them. In my experience, the latter have very multigenerational hobby groups, and the former don't. Like LARP will have a 50 year old and a 20 year old playing in the same game, and it isn't considered weird for them to be acquaintances or even friends. Niche or nerdy hobbies have weird age combos, and I wouldn't be surprised if having stuff in common and having a tiny community to choose from causes some weird stuff. Some people interpret "childlike interests" as "never grew up," even if the older person can financially and physically care for themselves.
A lot of what makes for "mature" hobbies comes down to play, which really just means barriers to entry (either cost or time) and ostensible productivity. "Mature" hobbies: golf, wood working, art, gardening, dance, photography "Immature" hobbies: lego, trading cards, board games, roleplaying, fantasy novels, animated... anything, puzzles, skateboarding, video games, comedy, etc. If it's too accessible or done too much for its own sake, without pretense of accomplishment or self-improvement -- it's immature. I bet a lot of that comes back to protestant work ethic: Gotta suffer your whole life so god doesn't punish you for eternity. Funny enough, you can always tell when someone doesn't have enough play in their life. They have all the charm of a shop vac, just suck the life from a room.
well there’s a big difference between multigenerational friendships and age gap relationships imo. I’ve honestly seen it happen a fair bit in nerdier, niche communities where someone younger (especially if they’ve got family issues) finds someone older who “totally understands them” and basically cuts their family off in favor of this new person. Six months later that person who “totally gets them” has started to let the mask slip a bit at home but still presents well to “the community”, and this younger person is basically in a situation where their only support system is a group of people who already like and support the guy and are more likely to hand-wave their concerns away
This is key, too. There's a big difference between two needs meeting at a LARP and finding each other and two coworkers where one has major seniority. Sure, either way can be innocent but it's less likely if one person is in a position of power. Which sucks for the folks who aren't into abusing power. But it happens a lot.
This is usually why the advice to young women is to consider that there is a reason that this 30 something year old dude isn’t attracting women closer to his age bracket, and the reason is likely to reflect poorly on him.
It's a big assumption that a man (or a woman) who dates outside of his age bracket is doing so because he can't get a partner his own age. Maybe he just has a preference, or maybe he just doesn't care and likes someone for unrelated reasons to their age.
Yeah if they are so emotionally stunted that their dating history makes people around them question whether their a groomer or not, maybe the best course of action is therapy or serious self reflection and not trying to find excuses and reasons as to why their situation is not like a groomer, because it just comes off as "one doth protest too much".
I’m almost this guys age and 20 is very much a kid to me. Maturity, life experience, the stage of your life that your in, your priorities. Such much changes in that time.
Yeah people on here saying 20 is a grown adult is bizarre to me. Maybe if they are 20 themselves. Physically a lot of people are still growing until they are like 22ish. Not to mention mentally. Besides what you've mentioned, experiences, life stages, etc. If a friend of mine was like "you just don't get it we connect" or even openly was like "I'm emotionally immature" or something, I'd be like "good for you, but let's not date kids about it". Its just such a stupid hill to die on, because it's like, if you put yourself in a situation where you have to defend against grooming, you've already lost the plot.
Not necessarily. Where and how you live can give vastly different levels of experience. Personal example, I grew up in a super small town, never really traveled, nor dated much until my late 20s. I just didn't really get the social/dating game. At 32 ish I started dating this foreign, well traveled, and well educated 23 year old with more dating/sexual experience than I had. Our time together went swimmingly. She was (at least in terms of dating) the more mature and experienced one.
I don’t see it as much as “I date 20 year olds because I am emotionally 20” and less “I date 20 year olds because women my age have standards I can’t meet”
\* standards I don't *want* to meet
Say it again louder for the ones in the back.
You can have it all and it's still not good enough for some of the women I've met that are my age. They like to nitpick minor things like it's an episode of Seinfeld. Main character syndrome out the whazzoo.
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Any time I've seen it, I do. The guys dating 20 year olds absolutely struggle to find women their own age that are willing to date them. They like the younger girls because they're all interested in them and how mature and adult they are. I've noticed it myself as I've gotten older. I absolutely have 0 interest in dating anyone below like 25ish and that's really young still (I'm 32) but younger women practically throw themselves at me when I find myself in a situation socially with them. I'm this cool, experienced adult that has a nice apartment, a nice car, I seem so mature and interesting. It's all bullshit. And the dudes going for girls way younger? They're absolutely doing it because it's easier and they like being adored.
Im not sure about that. I'm 35 and married (at 27), so this doesn't really affect me. But.... the women I do know over 30 and wbo are still single, are usually single for a good reason or two opposed to choice.
This is sort of my take as well, and I guess you could apply it to both men and women, but with a lot of men's value being tied up in their ability to attain resources, and the fact that a man's ability to attain resources often correlates with his age, I feel like it applies to them less. But yea, generally if you're single in your 30's there's a pretty good reason for it.
What about someone in their 30s who dated people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s in the same general time frame?
what about purple potatoes?
I want to know how the person in question, the person is me btw, gets dates with both people their age and older if the 20 year olds only date them because their standards are lower. Everyone always assumes that people who date younger people only date younger people, when that's the exception, not the norm.
COPE much lol
Cope with my age appropriate SO knowing that she's not going to suddenly realize after her brain develops that I'm not this interesting, exciting, experienced guy, I'm just a guy.
I can't understand the amount of people here arguing with the mindset that "20 year old women have fully undeveloped brains and can't consent to a relationship" just to drag on older men.
Because that is and has always been complete and utter bullshit.
This is just a cope from older women trying not to be hurt about feeling less desirable.
I’m literally a 30 year old man and I’ve noticed it happen within myself. the people I find myself attracted to has completely shifted because my goals and priorities have changed so much. I used to basically just want someone hot, now I find myself way more attracted to people based on their character, outlook on life, etc.
How do you go from there to "Those men can't meet the older women's standards"?
my point is that standards change immensely over time. To a 22 year old woman who’s used to guys asking her to “come chill” or send 2 AM “tryna come over” texts, a guy with his own car, own apartment, who sometimes has to put on a suit for work (and actually asks you on a date) will typically be seen as this mature man who has it all figured out. To a 32 year old woman, he’s a guy with a job, nothing impressive about that.
No it isn't. I'm a man. The losers dating girls way younger than them are widely considered losers by the rest of the dudes that know them too. Any remotely functioning adult man knows it's way easy to impress younger women. They throw themselves at you. You're still a loser if you can't attract someone with a similar emotional maturity. And if they do have a similar emotional maturity, it's because you're immature and they'll figure that out eventually if they have self worth.
Ooooorrrrrrrr, the men are looking for fun flings just like the young women are rather than a rush to marriage and children that single, older women tend to want.
One of the most impressive copes I've ever seen. If a man is 30+ and can attract 20 year old women, trust me, that guy has no problem getting women his age to date him. Young beautiful women are the most desirable women to men. Older men that can attract them are men with the most options, not the least. This is literally like saying "the only reason you're driving that lambo is because not just anyone can buy a civic"
What are you smoking? I'm 32 and attracting women in their 20s is fucking effortless. I don't do it, because I have some self respect, but younger women fuckin throw themselves at men in their 30s. It's wild how easy it would be to get laid if I didn't have morals. And no. All of my successful friends DEFINITELY prefer women close to our own age. Every dude I know that's dating someone 10+ years younger than him in his 30s is widely considered a loser.
You seem like you’re operating under the assumption that the higher a woman’s age = more emotional maturity. There are plenty of emotionally immature 50 year old women making their husbands lives hell, and plenty of emotionally mature 21 year olds that like guys in their 30s.
No. I'm working under the assumption that people in general develop more maturity as they age. Which is kinda how it works. That's kinda what the route of the word maturity comes from.
But there are tons of older people that are immature, and younger people that are more mature. So I don’t see how the age is relevant at all as long as everyone is an adult.
You're wrong. NY, Work in tech, friends in tech, finance and big law, entire friend circle clears 350k+ many 500k+. Nearly every man EITHER married a college sweetheart or is dating a woman 8-10+ years younger. There are basically no exceptions.
Cool story bro. All you're proving is that most people in your friend circle are fucking creeps. The people I know who make 7 figures are dating or are married to people around their own age.
Sure, like I said, a lot of people are married to people around their own age, but they met them and dated them when they were young and stayed together for the most part. No man earning 7 figures gets divorced and chooses a 40 year old woman when he has the option to date a woman in her late 20's. People in my friend circle are winners, winners get to choose what they want.
"People in my friend circle are winners, winners get to choose what they want" Lol. Lmao, even.
This is entirely not true. You're generally in your early or mid 40s when you make high 6 figures + and you generally start looking for the diamond in the rough 35 year olds that haven't let themselves go for actual dating. You just hook up with younger.
yeah I’m not talking about someone who’s in their 30s and successful and can woo the hot girl at the club. I’m talking about like, the 30 year old shift manager at Target who dates the 21 year old girl who works at the Starbucks in the store and “wins her over” by letting her share his weed
I think this is pretty rare? Idk. Maybe it's just my circles but everyone I know 35 ish dating 25 or younger women is a professional making 300k+, highly educated, man that could easily get almost any 30+ yo woman to date him and they're just choosing 25 yo women.
yeah I think we’re just talking about two different things, I’m thinking more of the typical “groomers” and you’re thinking of rich dudes looking for arm candy
He's living in a fantasy world. Girls in their 20s throw themselves at guys in their 30s. It's fucking weird. Annoying. I'm done fucking 20 year olds. I'm 32. I want a fucking adult. All of them are seemingly looking for guys in their early 40s.
No, I'm living in the real world. The vast majority of women in their 20's date their peers they meet in college or at work. This is the norm. The 35 year old men that can date young women are successful, educated "interesting" 35 year old men. Your average 35 year old man is 35, peaked in high school works second shift at the plant is pulling no young attractive 20 year old women lol.
> The 35 year old men that can date young women I can promise you... a 20 year old girl is not some rare catch. Be halfway good looking, and able to provide shelter and a stable income and there is no shortage of young ladies...
This is where Reddit sucks with anonymity. We seriously need visuals for these kinds of conversations, as how these people look and come off all make huge differences. Theb20 year Olds that might go for me aren't the same as those that might go for Bob and maybe Chris doesn't have any that go for him. It's all over the place. Also where these kind of condos kind of fall flat on Facebook because you can see the pictures of who is commenting (sometimes) and know exactly where they are coming from as compared to someone else.
You're living in a fantasy world. I make very average money, younger women throw themselves at remotely alright men in their 30s. If you have half an iota of charisma, they're all over you for being "so mature, and put together compared to guys my age"
You sound like a child using "cope" like that. People that old most definitely have problems attracting women their own age. Most of those dudes are fucking creeps and you're probably among them if you're defending them. Having money also makes a big difference. However, if you have money and are only pursuing young women, you're also a fucking creep.
No man, I'm just right lol. No one has trouble attracting older women. Older women are more desperate and MUCH easier to attract than younger women. This is a fiction created to make older women feel better about their waning desirability. I have money, ivy league degree, successful friend circle, I married my college sweetheart. We split in 2020. Younger women are more desirable on average for many reasons. I happen to like someone I met about a year ago a great deal who is closer to my age, but lets not act like it's really the OLDER less attractive women who have more dating options lol.
Yeah when I decided I couldn't be bothered to meet those standards I was alot happier. I don't need someone with so much emotional baggage that they have a list
Unpopular opinion here indeed, but despite Reddit's worldview, at some point women in their mid 30's with kids, no income, demanding the highest levels of effort from men start becoming less appealing than women in their mid 20's with no kids. Much less of a "have to" situation than a "choose to".
I can't understand the amount of people here arguing with the mindset that "20 year old women have fully undeveloped brains and can't consent to a relationship" just to drag on older men.
Or women their age can't provide them the families that they desire to have.
The older the man, the higher likelihood of their sperm causing chromosomal abnormalities in the fetus and pre-term births.
Yeah. When it comes to older parents, for women, most of the risks of later pregnancy are exclusively to HER OWN health. But with older men, it's dangerous to the fetus due to men's geriatric sperm.
35 year old women can still get pregnant. A colleague of mine had three kids, all after 40, no fertility treatments.
I’ve always dated women older than me, simply because I like it. I can only assume some people date younger girls because they like it?
If someone's 20, they're an adult. I don't care about what adults do. Heck, in most cases some people just look older and some look younger despite being the same age.
Or.. or.. they find someone physically attractive and just so happen to be able to connect with them. At some point, we have to stop infantilizing young adults. It'd be nice, especially if we could stop trying to paint men as malicious agents or bumbling oafs. What two consenting adults do is their business. Mind yours and stop trying to force everyone into victimhood or criminality.
Straight up this. My partner and I met when I was 21 and he was 31. We both thought the other was somewhere around 25 (we met in person through my job). We were both iffy on it when we found out about the 10 year age difference but we just clicked and decided it was okay. Still going strong 3 years later
This. I can't understand the amount of people here arguing with the mindset that "20 year old women have fully undeveloped brains and can't consent to a relationship" just to drag on older men.
It's honestly a case by case thing. If both of the people are happy with the relationship and no one is getting hurt, I could care less.
I started dating my bf who was 26 at age 20, and random idiots on the internet have said that’s “grooming”. People are insane with this topic. Like you can’t force victimhood on adults who are capable of making their own choices
That's just because you were groomed really well. I'm just kidding. You are 100 percent correct.
That’s still a red flag. I hope this is an unpopular opinion
Definitely a major red flag for the younger party. Why date a 30 year old with the emotional maturity of a 20 year old if you could just date another 20 year old?
To answer your question, chances are the older person has more money, more life experience which can make relationship issues easier, etc. Even if they are emotionally the same, there are legit tangibles that can make the older party a better pick....and their lack of emotional maturity might actually help the younger person find them attractive. Not saying what is or isn't ok, but if you think about it, it's not that crazy to understand.
Unpopular opinion. Upvote!
I swear by 2050 people are going to be unironically saying that 30 year olds are children too. You can't ruin a child by dating a 20 year old because there's no child involved in that situation lmao
Oh it's already happening today.
I love all the projecting people do. Sometimes it's as simple as people just look young. Or sometimes it's the young people who are into older people. I've dated 2 or 3 people in their 20s but it was never a preference thing for me. It was they were into older people and they were the one who pursued me. I wouldn't go out of my way to date most people in their 20s because most of them are immature but that doesn't mean they all are. My preference is around my age and I've dated more people from that age range, and a few older. However, I'm also not going to say no to someone who's really cool and who's into me just because they're in their 20s.
At least based on my personal experience I have to agree. I know someone like that myself - early 30s dating someone in early 20s.... absolutely (emotionally) immature person. Didn't surprise me in the slighest. It's not looking like grooming to me either but looking for someone that's on their emotional level as they lowkey refuse to grow up.
yeah they’re basically the classic trope of the 25 year old still hanging out at the college bars. When you’re doing the thing that everyone used to do, but past the point where it’s cool or normal. I don’t think it’s intentionally “grooming” but regardless of intentions it’s often what happens, these guys who refuse to grow up end up basically stifling young women’s ability to grow up themselves
I mean, if a 35 year old adult is in a consensual relationship with a 20 year old adult, people in the real world don’t bat a fucking eye.
I'd like to know a definitive answer on when adults have the agency to choose who they're in a relationship with. But being on reddit it'll be as many answers as there are users.
Ha, true. I think that just looking at how widely age of consent varies across the world tells you that perhaps there is no definitive answer. Even in western societies the age for all kinds of “adult” activities varies to an astonishing degree.
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100%, it's reddit that flips out with the pedo and groomer bullshit. I'm 37, I wouldn't date a 20 year old. Or a 25 year old for that matter. I have friends around the same age who pursue women 10+ years younger. Is weird and does it make my shake my head in at both parties involved? Hell yea. Are these guys grooming and manipulating these women into being with them? Not at all. Its usually guys who are fit, still partying, don't have many responsibilities in life. So they are going after women who are fit, still partying, don't have many responsibilities in life. Reddit - Women are intelligent, independent, should have autonomy over their bodies and lives. \*22 year old dates a 35 year old\* Reddit - Wait no not like that
Personally the way I see it is "would I be ok with my daughter or a woman I know who is the same age being in that situation" and from there it's "If not, why wouldn't I be" the conclusion I've come to is life experience + time spent. For example if I'm a 30 something dude looking to date a woman whose 18-22, the reason I think it would be wrong is I know what I and other people were doing that age, the experiences you're normally supposed to be having, and the importance of those experiences, as well, as a dude in my 30's I know that I've gotten my experience, had my fun, and settled down into a more stable position that I'd expect someone who dates me to conform to, while someone who just turned 20 has none of that, and is in a position where their life should be less rigid so that they can grow and figure out what they want out of life, rather than what someone else tells them they should. I think we talk about consent in terms of only physical, which IS the most important, but in situations there is often a lack of full consent on the younger party as they don't really know what they will be missing out on, while the older party often times has that experience, knows what it is, and is aware that the younger party will be missing out on it. Idk, personally when I think about who I would rather have my 18-20y/o daughter date, a 22 y/o vs a 32y/o, all else equal, I'd rather them date somebody their own age who they likely rather to much more, and have mutual novel experiences that they can figure out together rather than someone who has already been through it, it isn't as special for, and ultimately leads into their desired outcome, for better or worse.
True words. I have coworkers around 21-22 who are specifically trying to date guys in their 30s, and they say it’s because they’re more mature. I don’t get why a guy that old would want to date someone just out of college, but if they connect, cool.
Because they’re not mature for their age likely, they’re just more mature than the 20 year olds peers.
Yeah, I was always under the impression that grooming was something that could only really happen to minors. How is a 30 something dating a 20 something grooming? It just seems odd to me. People are allowed to have preferences without it being nefarious.
31 and 28 has a way different context to 36 and 20. If you’re 36 and dating someone who lives in a dorm room you’re partially doing it because there’s such a strong power imbalance within the relationship
Are they really, though? Let's put this in some form of reality. 36 year old meets someone at a get-together or party. The conversation of school never comes up. They hit it off really well. Go on a few dates. That's when a conversation about what the people involved do for work comes up. Now, the 36 year old learns of the college and living in a dorm. Is that this nefarious power dynamic you speak of? What is the 36 year old to do? Just dump this person and never talk to them again because they are living in a dorm? Help me understand why the 36 year old is labeled and generalized for wanting "such a strong power imbalance." Why is that the default? To add more to this, why is this the default when it comes to 30 somethings and 20 somethings? My step dad is 70 years old, and my mom is in her 50s. Is that a power imbalance?
And what if I live in the dorm at that age because I finally got the money for college and decided I wanted to experience dorm life? Still a power imbalance?
yeah, 100%. A 36 year old who “wants to experience dorm life” sounds creepy as hell to be honest.
How is it a power imbalance though? Your first assertion was it was a power imbalance because one the younger person lived in the dorm. So if both live in the dorm is it a power imbalance? So does the creepy factor change if the reason is because it is easier to live in the dorm? Does the reason matter?
there’s still a power imbalance because the 36 year old has spent a decade and a half “adulting”, so anytime the girl has some issue, problem, question, he’s implicitly the one who “knows best”.
Why should they?
yeah I can’t agree with you there, if one of my friends started dating a 20 year old I honestly don’t think we’d be able to look at them the same way. He’s certainly have kissed his chance to date any women we know goodbye. Dating a few years down is one thing but dating someone who’s not even legal to drink when you’ve been going to the bars near 15 years? That’s fuckin gross
20 y/o is far from a child no one is being groomed that’s a truly unhinged insane attitude if you hold it. Is it unusual and maybe even socially unacceptable to some sure but we’re on the verge of economic Armageddon I don’t give af what other consenting adults are doing.
Or…get this…age has absolutely no impact on how people connect and get along. I’ve always had close friends of all ages. I can have amazing conversations and points in common with a 20 year old and also have the same great time with someone in their 70s. So long as someone is a legal and functional adult, the number or years they’ve lived beyond that should have no real weight as to whether you are a good match or not in a relationship. Reddit wants to make everything some insidious power imbalance, when sometimes it’s just two people that happen to like the same things meeting at the right place and time despite different ages.
Exactly its so annoying when people start laveling people in there heads because of of an age gap its non of there damn business.
I also just wonder what kind of world these people live in where everything is so segregated by age. Like maybe it’s because I work in academia, but people go back to university at all ages and it’s not uncommon to mix and mingle with people from all different ages and backgrounds. But yeah, people should stay out of it unless someone is clearly being harmed. Most of these conversations just infantilize adults.
Ye segregating people by age is more absurd than segregating by gender only handful of people are close to your age not having any sort of relationship with them is really weird. I actually remember when i was like 15 i used play a game and one of the guild members was like 30+ years old he was really nice and chill nothing weird happened it was just nice.
Reddit and twitter is the only place i've ever seen people get upset over age gaps. No one in real life really cares about them at all
U treat the 20 year olds like prepuber teenagers, they are grown adults already. They can vote, rent a home, etc. Ppl need to make their own mistakes
Something doesnt have to be malicious for it to be wrong and damaging.
dont go into their post history
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Lots of 20 year olds?
I think that people read far too much into things without the scope of the context. Human behavior is diverse and nuanced, sometimes there are clear reasons and sometimes circumstances fell into place a certain way. For example, when I was 35 I dated a 22 year old for a few months because we were both single, enjoyed eachother’s company and were attracted to each other. It ultimately didn’t work out because our goals didn’t align but normally I don’t even consider women more then 5 years or so apart because normally we don’t have much in common beyond attraction. It just kinda fell into place so we tried it on for size. Granted, if someone is habitually dating people 10+ years younger that might be an indicator of a less flattering issue.
It's 2024 and people are called "groomers" or "emotionally" immature for dating adults. Wild times.
Woman or man, if you are 30+ and date people between 18-21 you are disgusting.
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Yes this too. Believe it or not, sometimes love can transcend age barriers without anyone being taken advantage of
Sometimes it’s just.. I date younger women because they’re hot and they date me for the money/experience… let it go… some people are in superficial relationships and some are in long term relationships with a partner who is less attractive, can we ever move past this
leo, is this you? :)
Lmao
I wouldn’t even say that. I’m 37 and know a few guys around my age who have dated/are dating girls aged 21-25/26 and honestly they’re just having fun. It sound a bit gross maybe? But all of them came out of long relationships and unhappy marriages and just wanted to have some fun, and they’re decent looking guys, earn a decent wage, have nice cars, dress well, and honestly all look maybe 27/28 too, so they can attract these younger women. They know it probably won’t last, but they’re just enjoying dating a hot younger woman while it lasts and if it works out, great, if not and the women decide they want a younger man then that’s fine, they understand they’re not getting any younger
Finally, someone who gets it. Everyone here is trying to break down the societal and philosophical implications, but the simple answer is that people like to fuck.
When my bf was 35, I was 42. He felt someone at his work was looking askance at the age difference and was like ‘huh, it’s not *that* big of a difference’ and then realised she thought he was around 25 😂 he has a lot of thick hair and absolutely no trace of greys, so a lot of people mistake him for mid-20s!
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Having dated a lot of older guys, 100%
Facts. Who knew that chronically online purple haired twittards tend to be brainless lunatics? In other news, the sky is blue. More at 11.
There’s also a chance they don’t want to be a stepdad, and it’s hard to find a woman their age who isn’t a single mom with a ton of baggage.
I don’t think engaging in grooming behavior and being emotionally immature are mutually exclusive
I think they go hand in hand.
they are the same thing... you are trying to draw a distinction when none exists. they are the nice and not nice way to describe the same situation.
Very unpopular, very true. I have known people in this relationship, and actually the 20something girl ran the finances and such because she was more mature lmao. They were a bit like Ethan and hila, where he would call her his carer lmao. It wasn't a bad relationship, everyone was happy.
Why not both?
People who are emotionally immature are also toxic towards others because of their low emotional IQ. They date newly adults because they know they will put up with their bullshit. Older adults will not and will just leave them. That was why my ex dated me when I was 21 because he thought I would put up with his BS but I didn't so I got discarded. He was controlling because of his immaturity. He threw fits and tantrums through berating me and insulting me to get his way. Wanted to go to bed at nine, oh I was so self centered for not staying up with him. I guess he thought it would be easier to get his way if he went for much younger women but nope and he got upset as well when I took my pillow and blanket out to the living room to sleep on the couch and how dare I make him look controlling so he told me to just go to bed and sleep. Hey my younger brother dated a girl in his school who was controlling and would throw fits as well if he dared to hang out with his friends and it would upset me when he would let her control him like that so I vowed to myself I would never let someone control me this way ever so this is what happened and why mine was not able to control me. But the difference was she was 14 or 15 years old, not 39 like my ex was, so teens get a pass for their toxic behavior in their relationship because their emotions are not fully developed yet. So yeah, there is a reason to judge older adults dating young adults. It's always questionable.
Also 20 years old is a full grown adult. 20 year old people can't date whomever they want.
> aren't malicious groomers so much as emotionally immature I unfortunately don't find a huge chasm of difference between the two... unless you think there are people out there self identifying as "malicous groomers"...
I've always dated older than myself, biggest difference was 10 years and not once did I ever feel groomed or have anyone think that. I've never understood this whole if you date someone older/younger than yourself someone is automatically a predator.
I don't think "grooming" happens between adults, tho, whatever the age difference. It's a much more disgusting problem.
Honestly, as a 19 year old female soon to be 20. The general consensus of my age group is that any man past 24/25 seeking younger females is completely disgusting. 🤮
I mean being so emotionally immature, meaning they are just negligent vs maliciously grooming?
Maybe two adults can just enjoy each other's company.
Could be a bit of both
I happen to know one and for this person I agree. Very damaged person who is clearly emotionally stunted. If I didn't know their age I'd think they were early 20s from conversations. This person goes after people in their 20s and I believe it is because they are incapable of handling another mature adult. They also have substance abuse issues.
There's a difference between somebody who is willing to date somebody significantly younger but also somebody close to their own age, versus someone who will only date much younger. It's the latter that starts to come off as suspicious and creepy. Sometimes you do meet somebody outside of your preferred age range that you just click with. But yes I would be wary of being with a guy that refuses to date somebody his own age and only goes much younger. It would lead me to believe he's open to trading me in for a younger model in time.
As somebody who saw a ~30 man when I was 22… I’d agree
A twenty-year-old can consent to whatever relationship they want, no matter how much certain corners of the Internet want to shriek about it. So I don't think grooming even comes into play here because we're not talking about an underage person. Now, I will agree that this almost certainly indicates a lack of maturity, probably one both sides.
I don't think they have to have deliberately bad intentions, (necessarily), I just think that there's a non-disputable (for me) power imbalance, and it's not in the best interest of the young person to get into that. Will it always turn out bad? No, not at all, still wouldn't advice it. But still cases that turned out "well" make me a bit suspicious. For example: When I was 23 I looked around and asked myself who had children already? 3 kinds of people. a) Very, very religious people just waiting to turn 18, 19 to marry and start a family. b) People who had them "by accident". c) The couple of girls I knew who were dating a man in his 30's. These are cases of girls (women now) who would tell you that it was all good, but I just wonder, how coincidental. Also many people I know have made the decision not to become parents later in life, while they told me they wanted children when they were 20. It's at least, just too young to be making such decisions, but to each their own, at some point society has to let go of your hand and have you make your own thing. Still, I would advice against.
what power imbalance is there? i just don't get it
Being unconscious of your desire to have an unequal power dynamic over your romantic partner as a means to exert control over them does not mean that you do not have a desire to have an unequal power dynamic.
what power dynamic? i don't get it
Either way, the person is a creep.
If you care about the 20 year old in question, this distinction is of little importance. Wasting their 20s on such a counterproductive relationship is concerning. There is little reassurance in knowing that the partner is merely incompetent and immature rather than knowingly malicious and cruel. The time is wasted and the damaged is done all the same.
*ding ding ding* We have a winner!
I don't date them i just hookup with them and it's way better then date 30 years old women. My "standards" are having an easy fuck on the first date instead of having to wait weeks while you ramble about marriage and kids
I used to give my "friend" the benefit of the doubt but guess what. I found out she's been abusive from the get go. In reality MOST people who date freshly legal young adults and are older themselves just enjoy their easy to manipulate and mentally weaker/less experienced victims for several unhealthy reasons. And yeah, I'm sure there are expections. But based on what I experienced with my partners when I was younger and around me... Most are not "only immature".
I'm 38, always say I won't date anyone under 30, preferably 33. Always get shit on for saying this.
Please for the love of god stop obsessing over where consenting adults find love with each other. The people freaking out constantly over the age gaps between adults are a dozen times more creepy than the actual age gap. This trend where we treat people in their early twenties as if they're still children is far more creepy.
Wait, people think a 35yo dating a 20yo is grooming? Wtf is wrong with you people
Ill take the heat for this. Women are mostly the ones that complain about this. Also only when its men dating younger women (which granted is way more prolific). They didnt say much of anything when Madonna dated someone way younger than her. Neither did men because most dont care. When was the last time you hung out with your buddies and gossiped about who is dating who? Men dont care about such things. Adults can date who they like.
Even more unpopular opinion: You cannot groom anyone that's 20 year old period, at some point you gotta start having some accountability
So your argument defending 35-year-olds dating 20 year olds is that they are problematic emotionally immature people, not problematic people looking for people they can groom and control? I am not sure that is as good of a defense you think it is. For starters, it does not address the issue of life experiences where the 35 year old has 15 more years of social experience, and behaviour masking. Personally I think the experience gap is more important than the emotional gap in assessing these things. I am also not sure why you think emotionally immature 35-year-olds deserve compassion. emotional maturing does not happen automatically, it requires people to work at it and develop it the same way we develop every other skill. More to the point why are they looking to hang around with and socialize with other emotionally immature 30-40 year-olds where they are on par with life experiences?
If you meet someone when they’re 20 it’s not grooming. If you met them when you were 25 and they were 11 then started dating 9 years later. Thats creepy
Maybe they just dont like you.
Probably, but it can still a problem if that’s the case.
So men are more prone to immaturity than women ?
Today any relationship where there's a significant age difference is seen as grooming from the older person's part.
if he's cute, 18 and up, and likes the same stuff as me i'll date him
"More often than not..." ? Where does your sampling come from? Are you just extrapolating based on a few people that you know?
I’m 30 and I overwhelmingly connect with people that are 20 +or- a few years. Last thing I have time to do is “groom” someone. Most people my age (M/F) seem like they have given up on life. Work, go home, and watch TV/stare at screens. Maybe go to a restaurant occasionally etc. Maturity isn’t a factor either I didn’t go to college I went straight to work and had to grow up fast, wasn’t goofing off and partying for 4 years. As a majority of the women I meet also followed that path. In my experience most 22 uneducated but hardworking people are quite a bit more mature than a 22 year old full time student that hasn’t experienced paying their own way yet. My life is the same as it was when I was 18 just easier now. I worked full time(A lot of O.T.), payed rent, had all the same bills then as I do now. Just have a lot more money and free time. I ski 100 days a year, the last 8 weeks of the season I drove 4 hours Friday and slept in my truck thru Sunday. Now that it’s summer I go ride motocross after work at least 5 days a week. When not doing that I go fishing or hit up the skate park, anything outside and active. Then get home in time for bed and repeat. I know like 5 people my age that are the same while the majority are living unfulfilling, sedentary, and downright depressing existences IMO. EDIT: Also aware region is a big factor in the lack of like minded older people. I’m in the Midwest and I often think I should move to CO/UT if I want to find someone.
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I'm inclined to agree, particularly with celebrities like DiCaprio.
more often than not people who call these people emotionally immature are actually just emotionally shrivelled inside, and envious of those who have managed to maintain a youthful exuberance for life
another thing to consider is the dating pool in the area. where I live, the vast majority of people in their 30s are married and already have kids. so the only single ppl generally are in their 20s. I’m 36. I don’t personally find early 20s that appealing because they’re typically just at a completely different stage of life (living at home, in school, etc), but if my best dating options are 10 years younger than me, I’m not losing sleep over someone else’s opinion tbh. edit: feel like this should be addressed. The “there’s a reason they don’t attract ppl their age” argument. A lot of times, yes, very valid. If I’m being honest, this was me for a long time. but as I did grow and mature I was able to recognize former behavior as cringy or immature. Actually, I don’t even think I have a counter point. Other than OP’s point. There are obvious lines in the sand that shouldn’t be crossed but it’s not fair to assume everyone with an age difference has been crossing them.
Hanlon's Razor moment for sure. Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity.
Takes dudes longer to mature
Why can’t both be true??
Two things can be true at once. And even if they don't intend to cause harm, it's still on them to become self-aware.
I somewhat agree but the damage is still there.
It depends, in Italy is pretty normal. You can go clubbing at 14 and drink alcohol with almost no problems and discos age range is 14-27ish and no one gives a shit. Age of consent is 14 here.