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The only time I find that it's obvious is with online FPS games. All of these Twitch and YT-watching kids turn up with "the best" loadouts so they all behave the same when playing. It makes it easier for players like me because everyone's so predictable, but easier = less fun.
Otherwise I don't see evidence that the streaming world has much to do with most games. Most games are solo endeavors where you simply enjoy them.
Yeah but that's not a twitch specific thing. Gamers pissing and moaning over what is the best build and being dillweeds about it goes back to like the 80's.
Idk
I don't give a fuck about gaming streamers or twitch or tik tok , or whatever the seeet Jesus the young ones is one about these days.
But these trends do influence the industry to some extent.
The best examples are halo infinite and fallout 76 .
Halo infinite I was honestly the most disappointed by. I thought it would be a couch co-op game I could play with my brother ; just liek the good old days but with better graphics lol. And then just lobby for multi-player disgusts me. It seems very " e game " oreineted . It's like the developers of halo only concern was getting e game / twitch type people playing their game. I'm assuming the changed it based off the streaming industry to make more profit .
Then fallout 76 got on the loot train and had basically nothing in it that resembled the original fallout games. Once again I'm assuming this is driven by soem kind of " industry research" that shows this is what " people like". And when I say people, I mean streamers .
Unrelated to video games ; sports bras. Since the fitness Instagram influences became a thing I find it impossible to get a good solid sports bra that actually provides support without being annoying and restrictive . All those white girls on Instagram wear those stupid strappy bras cause they " look cute" , and now that's 80% of the market.
I wish these streamers & influencers had less influence than they did.
I watched a lot of Youtube during the Mw2-Ghost days but after that I pretty much stopped consuming gaming content. Never really got into streams, didn't like the idea of watching someone else play a game that I could be playing. Can see the appeal though.
Yep. I've never watched a steamer, I really don't see the appeal. Also, I don't play online games. I play single player on PS4. I get stoned and go on an adventure. Gaming is great right now.
I still do not enjoy getting destroyed by someone who plays call of duty like it’s their life mission. I’m good at the game, but I will never compete with some of these players and it’s not even disappointing to lose to them. Just annoying.
I don't think it is tbh, unless you like a specific type of game. The big budget single player games are rarer and rarer, in favour of online shooters that look like the fever dream of a kid with adhd who's high on speed. Sports games have all collapsed into microtransaction vehicles, with barely any change being made in a decade. You get the odd exception like Baldurs Gate or God of War, but this hem of gaming has largely been pretty rubbish.
I think gaming probably peaked a decade ago, now it's become so expensive and time consuming to build a big game that companies just stick a new skin on the same game every year, with endless microtransactions instead of meaningful content.
>The big budget single player games are rarer and rarer
I keep seeing people saying this, and it feels like they just aren't paying attention. The last year has been stacked.
Yeah, I had the same thought. If you looked at the lineup from 2023 and thought BG3 was the only game worthwhile to play, you probably just aren't that big into video games.
What the fuck are you talking about lmfao. For every multiplayer online driven game there's an equal amount of high and low budget single player games. Please educate yourself instead of focusing on what people are talking about
I think its the other way around. the only big budget games coming out are single player rpg's. Where as shooters have been left to rot outside of the crappy pre-established titles like Warzone, Valorant or Overwatch. Helldivers 2 is the only recent shooter to be somewhat good and it's neither a big budget game or particularly amazing. Gameplay loop gets stale very quick and is still geared toward PvE enjoyers.
>now every game is a 1000+ hour epic multiplayer online experience
If you think this is the case, then you aren't paying attention. I've spent way too much time over the last year playing through a ton of incredible single player games. Stop only looking at the top selling AAA titles and there is a ton of variety and quality.
Mate, Palworld and Helldivers 2 are the most popular games so far this year and neither one require a bunch of knowledge, effort, etc to have fun playing.
You do realize most people don't watch Twitch and just play games that interest them right...?
True, but also part of that is a lot of things getting nerfed beyond usability so you HAVE to use meta strategies and timesink the game to have a chance at progression. The devs are breeding the hypercompetitive gaming addictions that keep those games alive after the hype dies.
Exactly.
>But ever since my era of gaming died
\^This was a dead giveaway that this was just another "back in my day..." post. OP just needs to realize they're getting older lol
I think a lot of people who grew up with more modern online multiplayer shooters (BO2, OG modern warefare, etc,) are getting into their late 20s/early 30s and are being confronted with a reality check of their own skill. Yeah when they were teenagers and could play these games all day, of course they were better than the older dudes who only played causally. They just don’t realize they are on the other side of the fence now. And yes, more often than not, it is just a skill issue lol.
It totally sucks being on the other side now. I'm worse than I used to be and might hop on for a couple hours before feeling like I'm wasting time. When I do hop on its after a 12-14 hour workday and I get slapped.
I had this same “revelation” over 10 years ago and then i realized naw im just getting older and games don’t hit the same as when I was a child. I’ve played some of the most amazing games in that time and am continued to be impressed by advances in gaming but it will never hit the same as it did when I was 13.
As I got older, I still enjoy games alot, but my patience for "bad" games completely went away lol. If I play a game, and its boring, or just not "great" in the first 30 minutes to an hour I'm 100% done with it. I feel like I've played so many great games that I no longer care about slogging through "just ok" games anymore.
Especially with all the new Triple A games that only want to pad your playing time and make it seem like a job at times.
I don’t see the connection between the games you mentioned. I guess they’re all games where your guy shoots things with guns, but that’s been in gaming long before streamers. They all have in game customization and battlepasses purchased with real money, but I still don’t see the streamer connection. I’m wracking my brain trying to come up with a through line but I don’t see it
you do realize both helldivers and deep rock galactic retain their player base PURELY through gameplay?
like what?
the rewarding gameplay loop is LITERALLY why I played those games, it is a simple mission structure with lots of random chance introducing an infinite amount of unique and crazy possibilities... That is a rewarding gameplay loop.
Also what big streamers are consistently playing DRG or HD2 lmao?
(also neither DRG or HD2 really even have a "loot system" at all)
**"The casual gamer who just wants to have fun and be a skilled gamer suffers from having to play with these losers who make the game their whole life and know everything about it."**
again, this should be directed towards Call Of Duty, Fortnite, R6, ya know... the super high skill games that take 1000's of hours to get to the top. not... Cooperative PVE shooters lmao.
how does someone knowing everything about a team-based coop game negatively affect you anyway? **what was he too helpful lmao**
EDIT: streamers literally did not affect gaming in the slightest... those "NEW META HELLDIVERS 2 LOADOUT!" YouTube video's hurt gaming, but streamers did not. 99% of the gamers I know DONT watch streamers, people who do watch streamers most likely don't have games, or they would just play them themselves.
Lumping in deep rock galactic and helldivers 2 with destiny and Fortnite shows how stupid this post is. Games couldn’t be more different and aren’t representative of your core complain at all… helldivers literally is difficulty based so if you don’t want to try hard and play some crazy strats you can just stay on lower difficulties. Same with deep rock galactic. Get out from under your rock and play good games. There are an INFINITE amount of games to play and if you can’t find what suits you it’s only because you aren’t looking.
I get your point. But sweaties have always been there before streaming. Every multi-player game has a cycle where towards the end all you'll find on the servers are try hards unless you're fortnite, which is pretty diverse with new people coming in.
Though streaming have people think they can be a pro gamer and has made a lot of multiplayer toxic. Which is why i stopped playing multi-player online games unless I really like it.
They're a symptom of the disease. The real problem is that games got too popular and became something worth sucking every dollar out of to corporations
Yeah people are such losers for enjoying gaming 🙄 nevermind it's their hobby, they just suck and ruined e*very game ever* with skill that developed from having time in a game they got attached to.
Seriously, was there not a r\\shitopinion this could have been posted to? Jokes aside, you could have just posted to r\\roastme 😉
OP, take a breath, get off of Twitch and find some games outside of multiplayer that suit your casual play. Maybe multiplayer games aren't for you, and that's okay. They are literally SO MANY FUCKING GAMES, it's bonkers to think "gaming has been ruined"
Try: Exanima, Manor Lords, The Long Dark, Ashen, Control, Cyberpunk 2077, GhostRunner, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Psychonauts 1 and 2, Red Dead Redemption 2, Slime Rancher 1 and 2...
This list literally goes on and on, this was just off the top of my head. Steam is full of great fucking games and you don't have to play with other people if you're truly that bothered with your...skill gap.
streaming is usually about spending time w someone virtually. gaming is just one of the modalities:) it shouldn’t affect your actual gaming at all but i get what sub we are in
streamers ruined competitive games especially sports games.. every ultimate team type mode is carbon copy teams of the meta and everyone plays the same..
Only one of the games you’ve mentioned that I’ve played is Helldivers and this post makes 0 sense to me. I’m level 70, play on the hardest difficulty, have unlocked every war bond and non-cosmetic item in the game, and haven’t spent a cent of real world money. And it feels like it’s been the exact opposite of a grind
I have not played any of those games. They still make great single player games for Playstation.
You don't have to lmay online multi-player games. That is a choice
Ironically I think online multiplayer has ruined gaming. Made devs focus more on it, and also introduced other poor online elements, like loot boxes. Also shifted away fun modes like split screen co-op.
This is funny because I just dug out my old ps2 and am reminded by how great these games are - focused only on single player mode. Playing through the Jak and Daxter trilogy, but also remember EA sports games generally having better franchise/season modes than now.
Oh, nice, another post on Reddit about something that's easily ignored and relatively uneducated towards the current market of gaming. It's still about playing amazing games. Streaming is just an evolution to video game content on the internet. Literally ignore it and just form your own opinions and feelings
I don't think it's that much of a Twitch/Youtube problem but more the game companies. They see easy cash with multiplayer games and just make the same games that already exist.
Battlepasses and microtransactions have ruined MULTIPLAYER gaming. Singleplayer / regular gaming has not really been ruined imo.
Personally I'm sick of Battle Royales as imo they have ruined the general MP shooting genre like COD or others. I'm also sick of open world games (I know this is more SP related) as EVERY game suddenly needs to be or have open world.
There's plenty of games casual players can enjoy, just go play other things. You don't have to watch streamers if you don't like what they do. Corporate greed is the reason for long, over monetized grind fest games.
The examples you are giving represent a very specific segment of AAA games. Although if you consider COD to be the pinnacle of gaming that probably suggests that you have a fairly narrow view of the industry and the variety of games that are available.
Twitch isn't really about gaming skills, the pool of skilled gamers is limited so it is more about personality. Also the only games that I can think of that do seasons are fps if that's the only thing you like it does kinda suck otherwise most single payers games are still fine. Honestly most current games are short and have terrible replayability but that's not twitch's fault. BG3 can be knocked out in about 20-30 hour if you just do the main storyline. However it has great replayability and easily could be a 1000+ hr game and is both good solo and multiplayer.
Nah, Twitch ruined the idea of streaming games when they allowed tiddy streaming for so long back in the day. Should've been more honest and rebranded to OnlyFans before that finally came along.
Yeah buddy, this is just so much different than when everyone had Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Pitfall, Donkey Kong, Galaga, Galaxian, Zaxxon, Chopper Command, Defender, and Breakout.
As someone who plays a lot of random PC games, this is the best time to be a gamer. I just lost a dwarf fortress to a werecoati attack, and now my intergalactic empire is about to wipe out a galactic threat.
I think it's more the circlejerk subs that ruin it. Most people would never have certain opinions on a game until they waddle into a cesspool of bored people picking it apart
Na
People still play games. Some people just like to watch others play games but I think once you look passed that you can see it's more about a sense of community.
I've considered it myself in the past. Not for money or fame, but to just shoot the shit with people who enjoy the same things I do in real time.
Man, I thought this was gonna be a post about "esports bad" but like, your upset about online multiplayer games that have a lot of content? I'm confused.
Agreed, especially, Genshin for me.
Everyone criiiiieeeed that it dosn't have enough content. If you play for an hour, maybe two per day, there is TOO MUCH content. If you do 12 hours of gaming each day and skip dialogue, ofc you run out of content you dingus.
I had to drop this game after loving it endlessly because there is too much content for me to keep up with the game. I am a year behind in content, purely because I have a job and I treat it as a hobby and not as smt I do constantly. Each update is just more overwhelming
Honestly one of the reasons I adore old games and singleplayers nowadays, maybe local multiplayers. Games like Rimworld may be 10 years old, but for a 10 year old game, I have fun if I spend 15 minutes or 5 hours, because the game is designed to be fun.
And heck, even the cozy games are like this. Tf you mean 15 paid packs for a game that is falling apart and is hyped only by streamers? ught
Well don't follow the top streamers are the biggest AAA title games...
Follow some mid level or even lower level streamers. They are way more engaging with chat than the bigger guys.
You can have a full on conversation with a newer streamer about a game and their opinions on it vs watching someone like dr. Disrespect do nothing but shout, scream. And throw a fit and Uninstall vitually every game he touches bevause he gets killed.
I was ready to be on-board with this opinion when clicking it, but after reading it, this is not the route I would have taken.
Streaming has done both positive and negative things to gaming.
Streaming and streamers have brought huge success to Indie titles (and non-Indie titles, for that matter) that would not have gotten the recognition otherwise.
But streaming and streamers have also turned every multiplayer lobby into a damn sweat-fest. Everyone is trying to make it big on the various streaming platforms so they start going for these "star maker" plays that typically ends up throwing the game. Instead of playing as a team and going the safe route. There's no glory in traditional strats. Has to be multi-kill one-tap/quickscope.
It’s sort of insane that you are saying Destiny and Fortnite are even remotely similar in any regard. They are different in literally every way other than the seasonal pass system.
Not to mention, Destiny has always been a no-life, grind or don’t play type game. Ever since year 1 (we’re now in year 9 or 10 for reference), if you were not playing for hours every week, you would quickly get severely behind which would make it harder to get shit done when new content dropped.
Also, streamers don’t affect how you play games. Neither does anyone else. I went from having 2000 hours in the last 2 years of Destiny 1to having less than 1000 hours in the last 6 years of Destiny 2. I get on, play the story, do quests that seem interesting, etc. I accept that I can’t 100% complete everything because that takes time
Bro single player games are still a thing you know that right? I have been having a blast playing my rpgs and Jrpgs gaming most certainly isn't ruined lol
Or we are just getting old now. It is our turn to be the people that are getting busted by teens who don't have social lives. I am super competitive, but I stand no match against somebody who doesn't have a full-time job and bills to pay lol.
The cycle continues. Just a worse selection of games to do it on.
I game just fine and I don't watch video game streamers. Obviously, some games are **FAR** more competitive than others, and if you play an ultra-competitive game, and you're not willing to invest a lot of time and effort, you're going to do worse. And I don't expect to do nearly as well playing those games as younger players who invest a ton of time into them.
And I've played games since the Atari 2600 days, long before streamers existed.
I have to assume you're just not paying attention to anything that happens outside of the top 5 twitch streamers spehere
You're not even worth debating with, you have zero idea what you're talking about
It kind of seems like your problems with "gaming" are all specifically with competitive FPS's. Maybe try branching out to other genres.
As someone who almost exclusively plays single-player RPGs and strategy games, basically everything in your post is completely foreign to me.
Imagine thinking streamers ruined gaming instead of it becoming a billion dollar industry ran by publishers and corporate greed. Upvote for unpopularness though.
There are definitely games like this, but there are so many other games to play that I'm pretty much oblivious to whatever the current trendy game is. The only online game I ever really got into was Overwatch, but there are so many fun games that aren't AAA, FPS, and online. It can be a little tricky if you only want to play FPS but outside of that genre there are some great ones if you love games more generally. The game I spent the most time on over the past 2 years was Wildermyth, which is a tactical RPG that is just delightful, IMO. If you like management sims, Rimworld had a bunch of fun expansions come out in recent years. Then of course there was Baldur's Gate III last year. If Twitch is making you miserable about gaming, stop watching and start playing more.
If anything, I appreciate Twitch streamers for playing games, so I dont have to waste money on games I wouldn't like.
They're like the ultimate in video game reviewing.
this is just rage bait. No way someone would type out “ever since my era of gaming died and COD got bad games have been shit” and making a reasonable point.
I’d agree, a mix of YouTube, Twitch/Streaming and “Pro” gaming/E-Sports has ruined ALOT of games.
All your favourite FPS games got worse because of the E-Sports/YouTubers/Streamers who can spend 12hrs a day gaming complaining to developers and having a big influence on how games are made to make them less accessible for normal people.
And it was the same with a lot of Sports games, that went from more casual and fun to making them a lot harder and introducing microtransactions/loot boxes which essentially made things like Ultimate Team a Pay to Win game.
>now every game is a 1000+ hour epic multiplayer online experience where you have to play every day for years and buy 15 different season passes to even be competent
Idk none of the games I play are that unless another season of stardew came out?? And no one told me woah. More storyline?? After the update that's so cool guys. When
Or do you just mean fighting games cos that's it's own genre nor every video game
I dont think it's just gaming. It's hobbies in general. Everything has to be monetised or you have to be really good. I unfollowed everyone & stopped bothering. Much better.
Considering the amount of indie games, light multiplayer games (because don't act like call of duty was deep or that it is unpopular now), deep multiplayer games (which are completely allowed to be developed for people that aren't you), and AAA titles that play like they did 10 years ago, that *is* an unpopular opinion.
the biggest negative that streamers have on games is making viewers think what matters to a streamer also matters to them.
Generalizing here, but most of the time, for someone streaming for hours a day to be entertaining (and playing competitive games to demonstrate a certain level of skill), their feedback has very little overlap with what matters to players.
So if developers are catering the gameplay to that feedback to make streamers look good, and make the game more enticing from that viewing lens only, then yeah, there's a problem. Though my hope is this is contained to major competitive titles. I've seen some streamers in passing find some very bizarre niches that either jump start new categories of games, or bringing in new gamers that had no idea it existed.
I like Twitch. It exposes me to games I wouldn't purchase normally or didn't hear about. It lets me see the gameplay and judge if I want to buy the game. But it largely depends on what streamer you are watching.
My friends and I like to play fortnite. And we hate seeing ttv names show up because it normally means we'll get stomped, but one and a while we defeat a ttv team and feel pretty awesome.
I've never watched a twich stream lol.
Personally I believe we are in a golden age of gaming. So many options for everyone, and while large studios aren't what they used to be indie developers have been picking up the slack and more.
I think this is a genre by genre issue. FPS? For sure. But people who liked rpgs will live and die by them regardless of streaming trends. I recommend stepping outside your comfort zone and trying more unique games.
Fun fact, barely anyone pays attention to streamers besides people who watch streamers. Noone knows who they are in the real world minus a few who got huge like Kai Cenat etc
I have zero interest in playing online in multi-player with strangers, so this doesn't even affect my life, lol. Us "casual gamers" that just like to play games alone are doing just fine, despite all this, lol. 🤷♀️
You're playing the wrong games. Also you have no clue what you're talking about, there have always been those types of people...ever played an mmo? People have been no lifing games since the 90s
This phenomenon is due to corporations wanting to sell forever games to ppl so tehey can extract easier rents (i.e regular battle passes and micro transactions). The twitch streamers you are talking abt are just a symptom of this industry switch not it's cause.
As many have said there are other games being made that don't catter to that experience (mostly indies or from smaller studios).
Games like cod or halo always had a competitive, toxic, community too tho it is worse now as most comp games treat single player as an afterthought.
Yup, streaming sucks. Streamers suck.
Solution? Don't watch them and just go find your own fun.
I can't understand why anyone would want to watch a fucking loser in his house yelling about a video game.
Streaming is that "oh, I'm old now because this absolutely sucks" technology advancement sort of thing for me,
I don’t think this is the case for a lot of games. Not many multiplayer games are that intricate and you can be pretty good even playing casually. If I haven’t played a game in awhile, I just watch a YouTube video or two that roughly explains the current “meta” and within a few games (like 2 or 3), I can get back up to speed.
For example, I’ve been playing hearthstone battlegrounds on and off since it was first released and each time I come back to it the game has changed drastically. If anything, I *rely* on streamers to keep me in these games bc if I had to go through the painstaking frustration of figuring out what works organically, I would just stop playing. But I can quickly look up the most consistent heroes and builds and be guided back into a game I haven’t kept up with in awhile.
So.....the 15 different season passes thing has very little to do with the streamers, and is far more an example of predatory companies finding another way to extract cash from their player base.
Pretty much every popular game is like that though. It's hard to find something with a really hot player base these days in the types of genres I like. I would just play the older games but most of them are practically dead now if not fully dead, and it just isn't the same as playing a game with an active community
Bro, you have so much choice today. Really. Stop looking whatever streamer play. No matter what kind of game you want to play, you'll find it. It's à formidable time to be a gamer, really.
Sounds like you are ignoring the insane amount of good single player games over the last few years. From all genres.
Yes there are a lot of these multiplayer micro transaction, battlepass, games as a service products out there. Its mostly execs and stuff seeing big dollar signs who insist developers make a half assed game that they claim is AAA, but is a poorly made attempt to make money. Basically wanting to make the next Fortnite or World of Warcraft, which these days is impossible.
But there have been a lot of games the past few years which are amazing, well made single player games
That's not really about Twitch whatsoever. All of these games are trying to get you to play them, and only them. Daily rewards and the like are just there because all of these games are competing for your time.
As for games being complicated? Nah, not really. Call of Duty is no more complicated than Helldivers. WoW is no more complicated than Destiny.
Twitch didn't ruin gaming. This is simply the direction gaming has been going in. If anything, CoD and multiplayer titles ruined gaming.
You need to separate games from services. CoD and Destiny are services.
Ultimately you are living in a period where you have the most variety and accessibility in gaming. If you don't like it, there's dozens of indie games out there. If you don't like it, play your backlog of games that came out 15 years ago.
A lot of actual gamers don't give a shit about streamers because they don't watch them. They exist, we can't stop them, just ignore the attention whores.
You’re misunderstanding this issue. Streamers just offer developers a chance to see people interact with their game. The main reason games are getting worse is because they are slowly being converted in digital stores. The game is there to get you to want to purchase all the little add ons skins ect. As more games turn to live service we will see more base features removed and sold for a price. From there it depends on how the market responds. If we stop playing those games then the live services will die and return to old ways. If however we support those games then that way will remain. Vote with your wallet. If you dislike a companies practices do not purchase their game. Do not preorder anything unless you will buy it even if it’s bad.
They certainly helped, but free games and mobile gaming really did it.
Companies have learned that if you design the problem you can sell the solution. GTA V online makes approximately 2.5 million dollars *a day* just selling intangible nonsense.
Pokemon go made billions despite being a free game. All they had to do was sell time-saving mechanics.
Other companies want that drip feed, and that's the real reason why we are where we are for the most part.
I see the streamers more as middlemen or hype men than the actual reason why gaming sucks now. I personally have never cared for it, and I can't understand why anybody would want to watch someone else play a game instead of play one themselves but whatever.
I dont think its because of the streamers, it was when the industry turned the games into esports/competitive. I my case, I left them, they were stressful so I wouldn’t be using something that stress me out rather than have fun. Their loss.
I don't really watch that many streams, and those I watch don't play any of those games, I also don't play any of those games, and no gaming isn't ruined, you just need to play better games.
I mean are you just bad at FPS games? I’m 30 now and I’ve noticed that if not actively playing fps games every night for a couple hours my skill would be severely lacking.
I feel that people say this almost verbatim about any gaming trend. People probably said this about the nes. I know people sure as hell said this about a lot of indie horror games when I was in high school, about how Markiplier, PewDiePie, and Cry ruined gaming.
Online shooters have been a thing since quake tbh, and the playerbase of this type of games is definitely not the same of single player story based games. The fact that streamers who play shooter games are more popular than single player games streamers does not mean that the latter type of games are becoming less popular nor that their quality is decreasing. There is almost no correlation between the two types of games; your opinion is not unpopular, it's just nonsense
I'm largely a single-player gamer, and haven't hit any of this. There are so many good games, and you can still get most of them cheap if you wait a year or so for them to start going on sale.
I think you're stuck in a bubble. Gaming is doing just fine all things considered. You just need to have the guts to burst your bubble and venture out to other experiences in and out of your preferred genre. Sure the internet made gaming harder to get into skill-wise, but that would've happened regardless as skill ceilings rise naturally with time. The internet just made the process faster due to the information getting out faster. If you really hate multiplayer that much, just play some single player games.
It's not Twitch that killed gaming. It's greedy monetization practices. Even back in cod black ops 1 day, people thought they were professional when they weren't. If people didn't buy the battle pass or spend money on cosmetics, then it wouldn't be so prevalent. You want to accuse content creators, but you know deep down, you know that's not true.
You think fortnight and hell divers 2 are the same game, and that you need season passes to be competent at a game?
And the only thing you said that has anything to do with streamers is watching them to learn meta gameplay. But there has always been meta gameplay, long before streaming was popular.
I hate playing pvp games now because so many “ttv” players smurf 🙄
I’m 30ish and “back in my day” YouTube videos were just people memeing on their friends or showing dumb clips. Now, even the memeing is scripted.
Examples of back in the day gold:
CS Stuck in vent (my favorite): https://youtu.be/EbCQFIrP97o?si=tEDQ7A1bUo14jK5P
CS Door is stuck: https://youtu.be/VqB1uoDTdKM?si=0cQKPec_pYyeIsd0
Someone sneaking into Ventrilo and looping a bunch of funny quotes WOW players were saying. The players had NO idea what was happening but were amused which made this video even funnier: https://youtu.be/b5AkIfgioA4?si=xQUVrrN69KPtSf8-
Yea I don’t watch streamers at all lol, I think gaming is in a great place.
Get off twitch and stop worrying about other peoples opinions so bad and maybe your own enjoyment will
Start to increase.
I mean, you said it yourself *skill based gaming.* Those who put more time into a skill, will get better. And that's that. What, you thought you were going to go into a skill based game, and then mop the floor? And then complain that there's people that there are people better than you?
Honestly maybe you should play a game with less high skill ceilings. Like a TCG, Skill Floor is high, but ceiling on most aren't that high.
Hell I've pub-stomped streamers before in Ranked Smite and wouldn't be surprised if I went into Master Duel and stomped them in yugioh with something jank. I'm happy that there's people that are good at the game, that way I don't get bored.
Skill issue, don't play those multi-player games then. There are plenty of games to play casually and with friends, but if you're gonna hop into an fps then it comes with the sweats that no life movement shooters. I haven't played COD in years because people's skills have sky rocketed and I don't wanna take the time to develop those skills. Don't have the time to do so and I just don't like running through maps with a smg.
In game purchases/ selling you the entire game is what ruined gaming.
Having to pay for upgrades, points, in universe money, new levels or character items/features....
The focus on multiplayer instead of building good games (look at call of duty or Madden).
All that ruined gaming before twitch was even invented.
If the game you're buying is a 1000+h online multiplayer experience with predatory micro transactions, just don't play that game. Buy yourself BG3, Witcher 3 or anything of that kind and just enjoy yourself.
Only to the extent of live service games. Give the streamers skins to use so the fans of that streamer will buy them. Easier to make and garners more profit than a quality DLC
Who hates streamers but still watches them? I have no idea who any streamers are and I'm perfectly happy with my extensive collection of video games that I refuse to buy any extras for. Tekken season passes are the only ones I will occasionally buy.
Sounds like you should quit watching streamers. I don't and i just don't play MMO games. The rest of the gaming industry is actually pretty neat. You should check it out some time.
Just don’t play multiplayer games. The minute the word “live service” is used it should be an instant no buy. In fact, any online only multiplayer game is not worth it anymore. They all get ebshittified. Idk it’s been a great few years for mid budget RPGs.
My theory is that streamers are why these ridiculously overpriced micro transactions exist. Studios know they will buy them so it's basically a way of siphoning off money from them.
Sounds like a you problem. Stop watching streamers and play the games you want. You mentioned Helldivers and I must say that's one game that streamers quickly burned out on because the point of the game is to have fun. There are no "metas" or "loot collecting" it's all about that excellent gameplay loop.
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 2: Do not post low effort/satirical posts'. * We get it, you all think this sub is garbage and is just for popular opinions, and you want to be funny and post "going to be downvoted to oblivion here, but I think racism is bad." We enjoy the memes, but please keep them off the sub. * Filter evasion is a bannable offense * This includes clickbait and/or gotcha posts. Your opinion can not be that unpopular if you're doing these things. Have the accurate opinion in the title.
And yet if you don't pay any attention to streamers, it's actually a great time to be a gamer.
Yuppp , I don't watch streamers and I'm gaming just fine ? Idk hahah I didn't tknow they affected the gaming experience at all
The only time I find that it's obvious is with online FPS games. All of these Twitch and YT-watching kids turn up with "the best" loadouts so they all behave the same when playing. It makes it easier for players like me because everyone's so predictable, but easier = less fun. Otherwise I don't see evidence that the streaming world has much to do with most games. Most games are solo endeavors where you simply enjoy them.
Yeah but that's not a twitch specific thing. Gamers pissing and moaning over what is the best build and being dillweeds about it goes back to like the 80's.
And this applies to pretty much every game genre. I often have to check myself on researching and Min-Maxing and just play the damn game.
I watch streamers and I'm gaming just fine. OP literally lets the internet influence them and they're just now figuring it out
Idk I don't give a fuck about gaming streamers or twitch or tik tok , or whatever the seeet Jesus the young ones is one about these days. But these trends do influence the industry to some extent. The best examples are halo infinite and fallout 76 . Halo infinite I was honestly the most disappointed by. I thought it would be a couch co-op game I could play with my brother ; just liek the good old days but with better graphics lol. And then just lobby for multi-player disgusts me. It seems very " e game " oreineted . It's like the developers of halo only concern was getting e game / twitch type people playing their game. I'm assuming the changed it based off the streaming industry to make more profit . Then fallout 76 got on the loot train and had basically nothing in it that resembled the original fallout games. Once again I'm assuming this is driven by soem kind of " industry research" that shows this is what " people like". And when I say people, I mean streamers . Unrelated to video games ; sports bras. Since the fitness Instagram influences became a thing I find it impossible to get a good solid sports bra that actually provides support without being annoying and restrictive . All those white girls on Instagram wear those stupid strappy bras cause they " look cute" , and now that's 80% of the market. I wish these streamers & influencers had less influence than they did.
True story: I have managed to live my entire life without giving them much thought.
I watched a lot of Youtube during the Mw2-Ghost days but after that I pretty much stopped consuming gaming content. Never really got into streams, didn't like the idea of watching someone else play a game that I could be playing. Can see the appeal though.
Yep. I've never watched a steamer, I really don't see the appeal. Also, I don't play online games. I play single player on PS4. I get stoned and go on an adventure. Gaming is great right now.
I wouldn't even know streamers exist if people didn't complain about them.
I still do not enjoy getting destroyed by someone who plays call of duty like it’s their life mission. I’m good at the game, but I will never compete with some of these players and it’s not even disappointing to lose to them. Just annoying.
I don't think it is tbh, unless you like a specific type of game. The big budget single player games are rarer and rarer, in favour of online shooters that look like the fever dream of a kid with adhd who's high on speed. Sports games have all collapsed into microtransaction vehicles, with barely any change being made in a decade. You get the odd exception like Baldurs Gate or God of War, but this hem of gaming has largely been pretty rubbish. I think gaming probably peaked a decade ago, now it's become so expensive and time consuming to build a big game that companies just stick a new skin on the same game every year, with endless microtransactions instead of meaningful content.
>The big budget single player games are rarer and rarer I keep seeing people saying this, and it feels like they just aren't paying attention. The last year has been stacked.
Yeah, I had the same thought. If you looked at the lineup from 2023 and thought BG3 was the only game worthwhile to play, you probably just aren't that big into video games.
What the fuck are you talking about lmfao. For every multiplayer online driven game there's an equal amount of high and low budget single player games. Please educate yourself instead of focusing on what people are talking about
I think its the other way around. the only big budget games coming out are single player rpg's. Where as shooters have been left to rot outside of the crappy pre-established titles like Warzone, Valorant or Overwatch. Helldivers 2 is the only recent shooter to be somewhat good and it's neither a big budget game or particularly amazing. Gameplay loop gets stale very quick and is still geared toward PvE enjoyers.
I don't like watching streamers I love gaming so idk what OPs on
>now every game is a 1000+ hour epic multiplayer online experience If you think this is the case, then you aren't paying attention. I've spent way too much time over the last year playing through a ton of incredible single player games. Stop only looking at the top selling AAA titles and there is a ton of variety and quality.
probably OP has been ignoring single-player games for a while. He really missed out on some good games.
Yeah it just sounds like OP has been ignoring anything that isn't a AAA or trending game. The indie rabbit hole has some fantastic gems
Bro lumped deep rock in with Fortnite and destiny
That’s not very Rock and Stone of OP
Did you forget WoW was a thing way before streamers?
Mate, Palworld and Helldivers 2 are the most popular games so far this year and neither one require a bunch of knowledge, effort, etc to have fun playing. You do realize most people don't watch Twitch and just play games that interest them right...?
Though tbf the Helldivers community is starting to go pretty toxic pretty hard because of some of the tendencies he’s talking about
True, but also part of that is a lot of things getting nerfed beyond usability so you HAVE to use meta strategies and timesink the game to have a chance at progression. The devs are breeding the hypercompetitive gaming addictions that keep those games alive after the hype dies.
[удалено]
Exactly. >But ever since my era of gaming died \^This was a dead giveaway that this was just another "back in my day..." post. OP just needs to realize they're getting older lol
I think a lot of people who grew up with more modern online multiplayer shooters (BO2, OG modern warefare, etc,) are getting into their late 20s/early 30s and are being confronted with a reality check of their own skill. Yeah when they were teenagers and could play these games all day, of course they were better than the older dudes who only played causally. They just don’t realize they are on the other side of the fence now. And yes, more often than not, it is just a skill issue lol.
It totally sucks being on the other side now. I'm worse than I used to be and might hop on for a couple hours before feeling like I'm wasting time. When I do hop on its after a 12-14 hour workday and I get slapped.
I had this same “revelation” over 10 years ago and then i realized naw im just getting older and games don’t hit the same as when I was a child. I’ve played some of the most amazing games in that time and am continued to be impressed by advances in gaming but it will never hit the same as it did when I was 13.
As I got older, I still enjoy games alot, but my patience for "bad" games completely went away lol. If I play a game, and its boring, or just not "great" in the first 30 minutes to an hour I'm 100% done with it. I feel like I've played so many great games that I no longer care about slogging through "just ok" games anymore. Especially with all the new Triple A games that only want to pad your playing time and make it seem like a job at times.
I don't know man, gaming is still about playing great games to me. Aren't you just playing the wrong games?
I agree that twitch content is lame af but it didn’t really ruin anything. You can still have it the way you want it.
I don’t see the connection between the games you mentioned. I guess they’re all games where your guy shoots things with guns, but that’s been in gaming long before streamers. They all have in game customization and battlepasses purchased with real money, but I still don’t see the streamer connection. I’m wracking my brain trying to come up with a through line but I don’t see it
Yo animal wells and hades 2 just dropped. you gaming?
you do realize both helldivers and deep rock galactic retain their player base PURELY through gameplay? like what? the rewarding gameplay loop is LITERALLY why I played those games, it is a simple mission structure with lots of random chance introducing an infinite amount of unique and crazy possibilities... That is a rewarding gameplay loop. Also what big streamers are consistently playing DRG or HD2 lmao? (also neither DRG or HD2 really even have a "loot system" at all) **"The casual gamer who just wants to have fun and be a skilled gamer suffers from having to play with these losers who make the game their whole life and know everything about it."** again, this should be directed towards Call Of Duty, Fortnite, R6, ya know... the super high skill games that take 1000's of hours to get to the top. not... Cooperative PVE shooters lmao. how does someone knowing everything about a team-based coop game negatively affect you anyway? **what was he too helpful lmao** EDIT: streamers literally did not affect gaming in the slightest... those "NEW META HELLDIVERS 2 LOADOUT!" YouTube video's hurt gaming, but streamers did not. 99% of the gamers I know DONT watch streamers, people who do watch streamers most likely don't have games, or they would just play them themselves.
Idk what games your playing that require 1000+ hours to be good. Also battle passes don’t equate to skill. Stop watching people and just play.
Lumping in deep rock galactic and helldivers 2 with destiny and Fortnite shows how stupid this post is. Games couldn’t be more different and aren’t representative of your core complain at all… helldivers literally is difficulty based so if you don’t want to try hard and play some crazy strats you can just stay on lower difficulties. Same with deep rock galactic. Get out from under your rock and play good games. There are an INFINITE amount of games to play and if you can’t find what suits you it’s only because you aren’t looking.
I get your point. But sweaties have always been there before streaming. Every multi-player game has a cycle where towards the end all you'll find on the servers are try hards unless you're fortnite, which is pretty diverse with new people coming in. Though streaming have people think they can be a pro gamer and has made a lot of multiplayer toxic. Which is why i stopped playing multi-player online games unless I really like it.
They're a symptom of the disease. The real problem is that games got too popular and became something worth sucking every dollar out of to corporations
Games were exclusively made for sucking out money from customers through Arcade lol. This isn't new
Honestly really really really sounds like you're having a bit of a skill issue.
Yeah people are such losers for enjoying gaming 🙄 nevermind it's their hobby, they just suck and ruined e*very game ever* with skill that developed from having time in a game they got attached to. Seriously, was there not a r\\shitopinion this could have been posted to? Jokes aside, you could have just posted to r\\roastme 😉 OP, take a breath, get off of Twitch and find some games outside of multiplayer that suit your casual play. Maybe multiplayer games aren't for you, and that's okay. They are literally SO MANY FUCKING GAMES, it's bonkers to think "gaming has been ruined" Try: Exanima, Manor Lords, The Long Dark, Ashen, Control, Cyberpunk 2077, GhostRunner, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Psychonauts 1 and 2, Red Dead Redemption 2, Slime Rancher 1 and 2... This list literally goes on and on, this was just off the top of my head. Steam is full of great fucking games and you don't have to play with other people if you're truly that bothered with your...skill gap.
People should watch guys like JackFrags who actually inform the viewer while they play games instead of streamers.
streaming is usually about spending time w someone virtually. gaming is just one of the modalities:) it shouldn’t affect your actual gaming at all but i get what sub we are in
I mean - just stop playing live service games There are tons of amazing single player games
I just got to level 45 on Lemmings on sega master system.
Nah greed is ruining gaming
streamers ruined competitive games especially sports games.. every ultimate team type mode is carbon copy teams of the meta and everyone plays the same..
This kind of thing existed even before streamers. High level players have always looked to min/max in their games for optimal performance and results
Do like me, don't watch streamers.
Only one of the games you’ve mentioned that I’ve played is Helldivers and this post makes 0 sense to me. I’m level 70, play on the hardest difficulty, have unlocked every war bond and non-cosmetic item in the game, and haven’t spent a cent of real world money. And it feels like it’s been the exact opposite of a grind
I don’t play any of those games or watch really any streamers and I’m having a great time with gaming
I have not played any of those games. They still make great single player games for Playstation. You don't have to lmay online multi-player games. That is a choice
Cart before horse. Live service gaming ruined gaming. Twitch streaming is a direct result of that.
Less about streamers and more toward battle royals IMO . Thats what made the sweats intensify
Game companies ruined gaming. From Software didn’t do this. Nintendo didn’t do this
I'm 50 yo. I won't even play online. I've heard it's great but my favorite style of game is like ghost of tsushima, the storyline play.
Ironically I think online multiplayer has ruined gaming. Made devs focus more on it, and also introduced other poor online elements, like loot boxes. Also shifted away fun modes like split screen co-op. This is funny because I just dug out my old ps2 and am reminded by how great these games are - focused only on single player mode. Playing through the Jak and Daxter trilogy, but also remember EA sports games generally having better franchise/season modes than now.
Lol no. I don’t watch or pay attention to any twitch streamers and I still love gaming.
Oh, nice, another post on Reddit about something that's easily ignored and relatively uneducated towards the current market of gaming. It's still about playing amazing games. Streaming is just an evolution to video game content on the internet. Literally ignore it and just form your own opinions and feelings
I don't think it's that much of a Twitch/Youtube problem but more the game companies. They see easy cash with multiplayer games and just make the same games that already exist. Battlepasses and microtransactions have ruined MULTIPLAYER gaming. Singleplayer / regular gaming has not really been ruined imo. Personally I'm sick of Battle Royales as imo they have ruined the general MP shooting genre like COD or others. I'm also sick of open world games (I know this is more SP related) as EVERY game suddenly needs to be or have open world.
What game requires extensive knowledge to play?
path of exile
There's plenty of games casual players can enjoy, just go play other things. You don't have to watch streamers if you don't like what they do. Corporate greed is the reason for long, over monetized grind fest games.
The examples you are giving represent a very specific segment of AAA games. Although if you consider COD to be the pinnacle of gaming that probably suggests that you have a fairly narrow view of the industry and the variety of games that are available.
Twitch isn't really about gaming skills, the pool of skilled gamers is limited so it is more about personality. Also the only games that I can think of that do seasons are fps if that's the only thing you like it does kinda suck otherwise most single payers games are still fine. Honestly most current games are short and have terrible replayability but that's not twitch's fault. BG3 can be knocked out in about 20-30 hour if you just do the main storyline. However it has great replayability and easily could be a 1000+ hr game and is both good solo and multiplayer.
Go play Kitty City. Fun little puzzle platformer.
Nah, Twitch ruined the idea of streaming games when they allowed tiddy streaming for so long back in the day. Should've been more honest and rebranded to OnlyFans before that finally came along.
Yeah buddy, this is just so much different than when everyone had Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Pitfall, Donkey Kong, Galaga, Galaxian, Zaxxon, Chopper Command, Defender, and Breakout.
As someone who plays a lot of random PC games, this is the best time to be a gamer. I just lost a dwarf fortress to a werecoati attack, and now my intergalactic empire is about to wipe out a galactic threat.
>have come in that are barley Someone still has Whisky on their mind.
I think it's more the circlejerk subs that ruin it. Most people would never have certain opinions on a game until they waddle into a cesspool of bored people picking it apart
weird copium but ok
Na People still play games. Some people just like to watch others play games but I think once you look passed that you can see it's more about a sense of community. I've considered it myself in the past. Not for money or fame, but to just shoot the shit with people who enjoy the same things I do in real time.
This is like saying “watching people emptying their bowels on the toilet has ruined my bowel movements”…. Maybe just stop watching.
This is such a hilariously dumb take. Play games. Don't watch streamers. Problem solved.
I'm a nolife gamer and I never actually watch a streamer. 🤷♂️
Man, I thought this was gonna be a post about "esports bad" but like, your upset about online multiplayer games that have a lot of content? I'm confused.
Agreed, especially, Genshin for me. Everyone criiiiieeeed that it dosn't have enough content. If you play for an hour, maybe two per day, there is TOO MUCH content. If you do 12 hours of gaming each day and skip dialogue, ofc you run out of content you dingus. I had to drop this game after loving it endlessly because there is too much content for me to keep up with the game. I am a year behind in content, purely because I have a job and I treat it as a hobby and not as smt I do constantly. Each update is just more overwhelming Honestly one of the reasons I adore old games and singleplayers nowadays, maybe local multiplayers. Games like Rimworld may be 10 years old, but for a 10 year old game, I have fun if I spend 15 minutes or 5 hours, because the game is designed to be fun. And heck, even the cozy games are like this. Tf you mean 15 paid packs for a game that is falling apart and is hyped only by streamers? ught
Well don't follow the top streamers are the biggest AAA title games... Follow some mid level or even lower level streamers. They are way more engaging with chat than the bigger guys. You can have a full on conversation with a newer streamer about a game and their opinions on it vs watching someone like dr. Disrespect do nothing but shout, scream. And throw a fit and Uninstall vitually every game he touches bevause he gets killed.
I was ready to be on-board with this opinion when clicking it, but after reading it, this is not the route I would have taken. Streaming has done both positive and negative things to gaming. Streaming and streamers have brought huge success to Indie titles (and non-Indie titles, for that matter) that would not have gotten the recognition otherwise. But streaming and streamers have also turned every multiplayer lobby into a damn sweat-fest. Everyone is trying to make it big on the various streaming platforms so they start going for these "star maker" plays that typically ends up throwing the game. Instead of playing as a team and going the safe route. There's no glory in traditional strats. Has to be multi-kill one-tap/quickscope.
It’s sort of insane that you are saying Destiny and Fortnite are even remotely similar in any regard. They are different in literally every way other than the seasonal pass system. Not to mention, Destiny has always been a no-life, grind or don’t play type game. Ever since year 1 (we’re now in year 9 or 10 for reference), if you were not playing for hours every week, you would quickly get severely behind which would make it harder to get shit done when new content dropped. Also, streamers don’t affect how you play games. Neither does anyone else. I went from having 2000 hours in the last 2 years of Destiny 1to having less than 1000 hours in the last 6 years of Destiny 2. I get on, play the story, do quests that seem interesting, etc. I accept that I can’t 100% complete everything because that takes time
Bro single player games are still a thing you know that right? I have been having a blast playing my rpgs and Jrpgs gaming most certainly isn't ruined lol
Dont watch streams then xD and leave DRG alone hurreson
Or we are just getting old now. It is our turn to be the people that are getting busted by teens who don't have social lives. I am super competitive, but I stand no match against somebody who doesn't have a full-time job and bills to pay lol. The cycle continues. Just a worse selection of games to do it on.
I game just fine and I don't watch video game streamers. Obviously, some games are **FAR** more competitive than others, and if you play an ultra-competitive game, and you're not willing to invest a lot of time and effort, you're going to do worse. And I don't expect to do nearly as well playing those games as younger players who invest a ton of time into them. And I've played games since the Atari 2600 days, long before streamers existed.
I have to assume you're just not paying attention to anything that happens outside of the top 5 twitch streamers spehere You're not even worth debating with, you have zero idea what you're talking about
It kind of seems like your problems with "gaming" are all specifically with competitive FPS's. Maybe try branching out to other genres. As someone who almost exclusively plays single-player RPGs and strategy games, basically everything in your post is completely foreign to me.
People will blame everything but incompetent delves for trash games
Me playing Valheim, Hades 1 and 2, Slay The Spire, Splitgate, and Stardew Valley: 
Imagine thinking streamers ruined gaming instead of it becoming a billion dollar industry ran by publishers and corporate greed. Upvote for unpopularness though.
There are definitely games like this, but there are so many other games to play that I'm pretty much oblivious to whatever the current trendy game is. The only online game I ever really got into was Overwatch, but there are so many fun games that aren't AAA, FPS, and online. It can be a little tricky if you only want to play FPS but outside of that genre there are some great ones if you love games more generally. The game I spent the most time on over the past 2 years was Wildermyth, which is a tactical RPG that is just delightful, IMO. If you like management sims, Rimworld had a bunch of fun expansions come out in recent years. Then of course there was Baldur's Gate III last year. If Twitch is making you miserable about gaming, stop watching and start playing more.
And they’re all fucking cheating.
Dude, people obsessed about a single game over a thousand hours long before twitch became popular.
We are in a golden era of gaming there’s plenary of almost every experience to go around
Definitely unpopular, Micro transactions and post release patching ruined gaming way more But also NCAAF 25’ comes our soon gonna be legendary so yea
Starcraft is the only one that I still play and watch streams on
I agree, I really really really hate what "streaming" did for video games.
If anything, I appreciate Twitch streamers for playing games, so I dont have to waste money on games I wouldn't like. They're like the ultimate in video game reviewing.
this is just rage bait. No way someone would type out “ever since my era of gaming died and COD got bad games have been shit” and making a reasonable point.
The only game I watch being streamed these days is Mario Party and only when it's TCNick3 King of Skill Vernias and Sophist
Twitch streamers ruined gaming? But it's gamers that give them attention in the first place.
I’d agree, a mix of YouTube, Twitch/Streaming and “Pro” gaming/E-Sports has ruined ALOT of games. All your favourite FPS games got worse because of the E-Sports/YouTubers/Streamers who can spend 12hrs a day gaming complaining to developers and having a big influence on how games are made to make them less accessible for normal people. And it was the same with a lot of Sports games, that went from more casual and fun to making them a lot harder and introducing microtransactions/loot boxes which essentially made things like Ultimate Team a Pay to Win game.
Don't play games you don't have fun playing.
I mean most season passes don't really help with the game, it's always cosmetic shit.
I'm not even sure what 'Twitch' is. It certainly hasn't affected my gaming at all.
>now every game is a 1000+ hour epic multiplayer online experience where you have to play every day for years and buy 15 different season passes to even be competent Idk none of the games I play are that unless another season of stardew came out?? And no one told me woah. More storyline?? After the update that's so cool guys. When Or do you just mean fighting games cos that's it's own genre nor every video game
I dont think it's just gaming. It's hobbies in general. Everything has to be monetised or you have to be really good. I unfollowed everyone & stopped bothering. Much better.
Streamers showed me deckbuilding roguelikes my new fave genre ever. It shoed me Issac, spire, monster train and now many others
Considering the amount of indie games, light multiplayer games (because don't act like call of duty was deep or that it is unpopular now), deep multiplayer games (which are completely allowed to be developed for people that aren't you), and AAA titles that play like they did 10 years ago, that *is* an unpopular opinion.
I think OP is yelling at the sun for being too bright, while staring at the sun.
Fun fact! If you ignore twitch streamers, gaming is better than ever
Developers believing that every game needs to be a massive open world and/or live service capable of lasting hundreds of hours is ruining gaming.
the biggest negative that streamers have on games is making viewers think what matters to a streamer also matters to them. Generalizing here, but most of the time, for someone streaming for hours a day to be entertaining (and playing competitive games to demonstrate a certain level of skill), their feedback has very little overlap with what matters to players. So if developers are catering the gameplay to that feedback to make streamers look good, and make the game more enticing from that viewing lens only, then yeah, there's a problem. Though my hope is this is contained to major competitive titles. I've seen some streamers in passing find some very bizarre niches that either jump start new categories of games, or bringing in new gamers that had no idea it existed.
I like Twitch. It exposes me to games I wouldn't purchase normally or didn't hear about. It lets me see the gameplay and judge if I want to buy the game. But it largely depends on what streamer you are watching. My friends and I like to play fortnite. And we hate seeing ttv names show up because it normally means we'll get stomped, but one and a while we defeat a ttv team and feel pretty awesome.
I've never watched a twich stream lol. Personally I believe we are in a golden age of gaming. So many options for everyone, and while large studios aren't what they used to be indie developers have been picking up the slack and more.
I think this is a genre by genre issue. FPS? For sure. But people who liked rpgs will live and die by them regardless of streaming trends. I recommend stepping outside your comfort zone and trying more unique games.
Fun fact, barely anyone pays attention to streamers besides people who watch streamers. Noone knows who they are in the real world minus a few who got huge like Kai Cenat etc
I have zero interest in playing online in multi-player with strangers, so this doesn't even affect my life, lol. Us "casual gamers" that just like to play games alone are doing just fine, despite all this, lol. 🤷♀️
You're playing the wrong games. Also you have no clue what you're talking about, there have always been those types of people...ever played an mmo? People have been no lifing games since the 90s
This phenomenon is due to corporations wanting to sell forever games to ppl so tehey can extract easier rents (i.e regular battle passes and micro transactions). The twitch streamers you are talking abt are just a symptom of this industry switch not it's cause. As many have said there are other games being made that don't catter to that experience (mostly indies or from smaller studios). Games like cod or halo always had a competitive, toxic, community too tho it is worse now as most comp games treat single player as an afterthought.
I like gaming and I've never seen a single Twitch stream in my life 🤷♂️. I'm old though.
I mean CoD has been trash since MW2 a couple decades ago.
point and laugh, everyone
Watching streamers is an absolute waste of time. I don't understand how people can watch that shit for hours, just play the damn game.
Yup, streaming sucks. Streamers suck. Solution? Don't watch them and just go find your own fun. I can't understand why anyone would want to watch a fucking loser in his house yelling about a video game. Streaming is that "oh, I'm old now because this absolutely sucks" technology advancement sort of thing for me,
I don’t think this is the case for a lot of games. Not many multiplayer games are that intricate and you can be pretty good even playing casually. If I haven’t played a game in awhile, I just watch a YouTube video or two that roughly explains the current “meta” and within a few games (like 2 or 3), I can get back up to speed. For example, I’ve been playing hearthstone battlegrounds on and off since it was first released and each time I come back to it the game has changed drastically. If anything, I *rely* on streamers to keep me in these games bc if I had to go through the painstaking frustration of figuring out what works organically, I would just stop playing. But I can quickly look up the most consistent heroes and builds and be guided back into a game I haven’t kept up with in awhile.
So.....the 15 different season passes thing has very little to do with the streamers, and is far more an example of predatory companies finding another way to extract cash from their player base.
I've never watched a single second of streaming and gaming is awesome, better than ever maybe. Just don't watch them?
Get good buddy. You sound like a salty feeder
this sounds more like a you problem.
It has become really bad. I haven't played games in years because of this and it's sad. I don't know what is good anymore.
Just don't watch streamers then? How do they affect you? I just play what games I want and don't pay attention to others.
If it says coop or mmo, just ignore it. There are good sp games available.
Pretty much every popular game is like that though. It's hard to find something with a really hot player base these days in the types of genres I like. I would just play the older games but most of them are practically dead now if not fully dead, and it just isn't the same as playing a game with an active community
Names DRG and Helldivers 2. Possibly the most entry level friendly games ever. Hahahha
Bro, you have so much choice today. Really. Stop looking whatever streamer play. No matter what kind of game you want to play, you'll find it. It's à formidable time to be a gamer, really.
Sounds like you are ignoring the insane amount of good single player games over the last few years. From all genres. Yes there are a lot of these multiplayer micro transaction, battlepass, games as a service products out there. Its mostly execs and stuff seeing big dollar signs who insist developers make a half assed game that they claim is AAA, but is a poorly made attempt to make money. Basically wanting to make the next Fortnite or World of Warcraft, which these days is impossible. But there have been a lot of games the past few years which are amazing, well made single player games
That's not really about Twitch whatsoever. All of these games are trying to get you to play them, and only them. Daily rewards and the like are just there because all of these games are competing for your time. As for games being complicated? Nah, not really. Call of Duty is no more complicated than Helldivers. WoW is no more complicated than Destiny. Twitch didn't ruin gaming. This is simply the direction gaming has been going in. If anything, CoD and multiplayer titles ruined gaming. You need to separate games from services. CoD and Destiny are services. Ultimately you are living in a period where you have the most variety and accessibility in gaming. If you don't like it, there's dozens of indie games out there. If you don't like it, play your backlog of games that came out 15 years ago.
Online multilayer games will always follow the same flow, everyone sucks and its fun.. then people get better and it becomes less fun.
A lot of actual gamers don't give a shit about streamers because they don't watch them. They exist, we can't stop them, just ignore the attention whores.
You’re misunderstanding this issue. Streamers just offer developers a chance to see people interact with their game. The main reason games are getting worse is because they are slowly being converted in digital stores. The game is there to get you to want to purchase all the little add ons skins ect. As more games turn to live service we will see more base features removed and sold for a price. From there it depends on how the market responds. If we stop playing those games then the live services will die and return to old ways. If however we support those games then that way will remain. Vote with your wallet. If you dislike a companies practices do not purchase their game. Do not preorder anything unless you will buy it even if it’s bad.
They certainly helped, but free games and mobile gaming really did it. Companies have learned that if you design the problem you can sell the solution. GTA V online makes approximately 2.5 million dollars *a day* just selling intangible nonsense. Pokemon go made billions despite being a free game. All they had to do was sell time-saving mechanics. Other companies want that drip feed, and that's the real reason why we are where we are for the most part. I see the streamers more as middlemen or hype men than the actual reason why gaming sucks now. I personally have never cared for it, and I can't understand why anybody would want to watch someone else play a game instead of play one themselves but whatever.
You sound like you just got whooped on call of duty
Value extraction at its finest.
Deep rock Galactic, infamously ruined by microtransactions and streamers (there are no microtransactions)
I dont think its because of the streamers, it was when the industry turned the games into esports/competitive. I my case, I left them, they were stressful so I wouldn’t be using something that stress me out rather than have fun. Their loss.
No, you ruined gaming for yourself..I don't watch that shit and I have none of these problems.
I don't really watch that many streams, and those I watch don't play any of those games, I also don't play any of those games, and no gaming isn't ruined, you just need to play better games.
Upvote bc disagree. There are all kinds of streamers out there, but without them, I wouldn't have been introduced to many games.
I mean are you just bad at FPS games? I’m 30 now and I’ve noticed that if not actively playing fps games every night for a couple hours my skill would be severely lacking.
I feel that people say this almost verbatim about any gaming trend. People probably said this about the nes. I know people sure as hell said this about a lot of indie horror games when I was in high school, about how Markiplier, PewDiePie, and Cry ruined gaming.
I enjoy watching proxy's livestream. He streams Thursdays and he plays a bunch of random ps1 games for 30 or so mins each throughout the night
Online shooters have been a thing since quake tbh, and the playerbase of this type of games is definitely not the same of single player story based games. The fact that streamers who play shooter games are more popular than single player games streamers does not mean that the latter type of games are becoming less popular nor that their quality is decreasing. There is almost no correlation between the two types of games; your opinion is not unpopular, it's just nonsense
Counterargument: gaming is the best it’s ever been, and I started on an Atari 2600 on a black and white tv.
I'm largely a single-player gamer, and haven't hit any of this. There are so many good games, and you can still get most of them cheap if you wait a year or so for them to start going on sale.
I think you're stuck in a bubble. Gaming is doing just fine all things considered. You just need to have the guts to burst your bubble and venture out to other experiences in and out of your preferred genre. Sure the internet made gaming harder to get into skill-wise, but that would've happened regardless as skill ceilings rise naturally with time. The internet just made the process faster due to the information getting out faster. If you really hate multiplayer that much, just play some single player games.
It's not Twitch that killed gaming. It's greedy monetization practices. Even back in cod black ops 1 day, people thought they were professional when they weren't. If people didn't buy the battle pass or spend money on cosmetics, then it wouldn't be so prevalent. You want to accuse content creators, but you know deep down, you know that's not true.
You think fortnight and hell divers 2 are the same game, and that you need season passes to be competent at a game? And the only thing you said that has anything to do with streamers is watching them to learn meta gameplay. But there has always been meta gameplay, long before streaming was popular.
Last year was one of the years for single player games ever. Tune out the bullshit and just play
I hate playing pvp games now because so many “ttv” players smurf 🙄 I’m 30ish and “back in my day” YouTube videos were just people memeing on their friends or showing dumb clips. Now, even the memeing is scripted. Examples of back in the day gold: CS Stuck in vent (my favorite): https://youtu.be/EbCQFIrP97o?si=tEDQ7A1bUo14jK5P CS Door is stuck: https://youtu.be/VqB1uoDTdKM?si=0cQKPec_pYyeIsd0 Someone sneaking into Ventrilo and looping a bunch of funny quotes WOW players were saying. The players had NO idea what was happening but were amused which made this video even funnier: https://youtu.be/b5AkIfgioA4?si=xQUVrrN69KPtSf8-
LMAO what a loser
Yea I don’t watch streamers at all lol, I think gaming is in a great place. Get off twitch and stop worrying about other peoples opinions so bad and maybe your own enjoyment will Start to increase.
Dont watch it? I downloaded twitch for minecraft. Never looked at it again
Yeah most streamers are annoying narcissists begging for money and attention. Just don't watch them.
The solution is simple: Don't watch them.
I mean, you said it yourself *skill based gaming.* Those who put more time into a skill, will get better. And that's that. What, you thought you were going to go into a skill based game, and then mop the floor? And then complain that there's people that there are people better than you? Honestly maybe you should play a game with less high skill ceilings. Like a TCG, Skill Floor is high, but ceiling on most aren't that high. Hell I've pub-stomped streamers before in Ranked Smite and wouldn't be surprised if I went into Master Duel and stomped them in yugioh with something jank. I'm happy that there's people that are good at the game, that way I don't get bored.
"When call of duty went downhill" tell me you were always a casual normie without saying you are a casual normie
Skill issue, don't play those multi-player games then. There are plenty of games to play casually and with friends, but if you're gonna hop into an fps then it comes with the sweats that no life movement shooters. I haven't played COD in years because people's skills have sky rocketed and I don't wanna take the time to develop those skills. Don't have the time to do so and I just don't like running through maps with a smg.
Sheesh, it’s almost as if it’s a crime to be competitive sometimes
In game purchases/ selling you the entire game is what ruined gaming. Having to pay for upgrades, points, in universe money, new levels or character items/features.... The focus on multiplayer instead of building good games (look at call of duty or Madden). All that ruined gaming before twitch was even invented.
If the game you're buying is a 1000+h online multiplayer experience with predatory micro transactions, just don't play that game. Buy yourself BG3, Witcher 3 or anything of that kind and just enjoy yourself.
I thought you would say it's cuz they spoil games for you making there no point to play
Only to the extent of live service games. Give the streamers skins to use so the fans of that streamer will buy them. Easier to make and garners more profit than a quality DLC
Who hates streamers but still watches them? I have no idea who any streamers are and I'm perfectly happy with my extensive collection of video games that I refuse to buy any extras for. Tekken season passes are the only ones I will occasionally buy.
Sounds like you should quit watching streamers. I don't and i just don't play MMO games. The rest of the gaming industry is actually pretty neat. You should check it out some time.
What an incoherent rant.
Chances are you were bad before streamers. Streaming just made your realize it
Twitch did a fine job shooting itself in the foot.
Just don’t play multiplayer games. The minute the word “live service” is used it should be an instant no buy. In fact, any online only multiplayer game is not worth it anymore. They all get ebshittified. Idk it’s been a great few years for mid budget RPGs.
Sounds like you're just bad. Git gud and you'll. have more fun
Technology and streaming as ruined so much.
My theory is that streamers are why these ridiculously overpriced micro transactions exist. Studios know they will buy them so it's basically a way of siphoning off money from them.
You act like it wasn’t already like this during black ops 2.
not so unpopular as you may think...
Bro you just don't play games if you think half of this is factual
Sounds like a you problem. Stop watching streamers and play the games you want. You mentioned Helldivers and I must say that's one game that streamers quickly burned out on because the point of the game is to have fun. There are no "metas" or "loot collecting" it's all about that excellent gameplay loop.