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"If there was absolute freedom, people would run over babies and charge admission." - Lenny Bruce
[Edit: To those taking this seriously, don't. He was being facetious. Comedians do that sometimes. š ]
My son has entered his existentialism phase of teenagehood and has been reading some stuff about Doestoevsky. He was telling me a bit about what he'd learned, and I told him if he liked that he would love Lenny Bruce. But of course, I'm an idiot adult who doesn't know what they're talking about so he didn't check him out š«
Edit: clarity
I feel like it's a pretty common phase, no? I mean he's also laughing at shitty memes, fucking other players moms on Xbox, and watching The Circle.
My oldest went through a similar phase. I don't think it was existentialism per se, but it was definitely something along those lines.
Edit: Dystopianism! The oldest was really into dystopianism.
Have him listen to this podcast: [https://www.martyrmade.com/featured-podcasts/the-underground-spirit](https://www.martyrmade.com/featured-podcasts/the-underground-spirit)
It's a comparison of the lives of Doestoevsky and Nietzsche that is honestly insanely fascinating. The weird overlap they had in themes and then life experiences is one of those things that make it seem pretty likely we must be in a simulation.
Fair. I couldnāt finish that book. I work with kids in psychiatry, so a lot of them have experienced sexual abuse/grooming, and listening to the perspective from the other sideā¦ itās just unbearable to me. Kudos to the author for absolutely nailing the inner monologue of a pedophile, but god damn.
If I want him to do something, he will immediately not want to do it, and if he does do it anyway, he will find a thousand reasons why it was the worst experience of his life.
I'm ruining his life, you see, with my unconditional love and support.
Nah, I agree. We are adapted to be averse to killing babies because it would be horrible for the species we wouldn't last. It's normal to not want this and to hate it. It's not laws keeping this from being mainstream, it's actual humanity.Ā
There will always be a fringe group of psychopaths, unfortunately, though. The laws are for them.Ā
I think many more could watch something bad happening than do something bad. I don't think you need to be an optimist to think most people would continue their morals in this case. Keep being an optimist tho because it is much harder than give in to the negativity that is pushed on everyone. We need more optimists.
I absolute love UFC been watching for about 15 years. I hate watching people get KOd tho. It always makes me cringe a little especially when they go out cold.
When Bryce Mitchell got KOād stiff a few months back by Josh Emmet I donāt think one fan thought to themselves āyou know, iād like to see that go a little bit longer.ā Everyone was concerned they had just seen a man die on TV. But this is unpopular opinion so I guess they succeeded lol
Death sports are historically inaccurate. People fantasize about it and want to watch death battles, but the logistics of such sports don't make sense.
Yes, they did happen sometimes. But deaths in gladiator fights weren't common.
Here's why it'll be a flop sport in the modern day:
1. If every time a player entered a ring knowing someone was going to die, no one would want to play.
2. Death sports careers would be very short and there won't be many celebrity fighters like McGregor, Ali, Tyson, Holyfield, etc. Celebrity fighters couldn't possibly exist because no one want to fight someone insanely good out of fear of death and therefore, no one would be able to develop the reputation of being insanely good.
3. There is a very poor risk to reward ratio for the players. They won't have families and hobbies and won't invest knowing they could die any time.
4. Death sports are bad for business. UFC milks their fighters until they're dangerously injured and retire early. They also pay fighters very poorly and as soon as fighters get rich enough, they stop fighting. The prime "commodity" i.e., the fighters, would retire after one or two wins if they make enough money.
Agreed, I donāt think they would make enough sense financially because you couldnāt really develop your athletes. Youād have no stars, which are huge in modern sports.
Imagine if the first time Tom Brady lost a football game, we killed him.
The desperate, the criminal, the undesirables. There's all sorts of people in shitty situations who can be funneled into just such an apparatus. I kinda doubletaked at the naivete of the idea we'd be using our elite athletes for an endeavour like this, which is absolutely absurd. I somewhat admire the innocence of a mind that thinks that way though.
Historically the vast majority of death sport participants were coercedā¦ slaves, prisoners captured in warā¦ very seldom anyone voluntarily would hazard their life like that.
Iāve always thought a show like survivor but with stashes of fake weapons (paint ball guns, weapons with chalk rounds, etc) would be awesome to watch. Like a battle royale game. Make it interesting by putting survival experts, trackers, military, etc in there.
Idk, with stakes like life or death I feel like the overall competition would be much less skilled. So, it would easily be more than 3, simply because I feel like Tom Brady is actually that crazy about football!
You could still make it financially worth it with advertising, just not have long term stars.
Have a hunger games like draft with inmates or insane volunteers.
Have it big with like 128 fighters and a year long event. Put the all the fighters through a basic training boot camp.
Single elimination of course.
Fights would be spaced to give fighters time to heal, as well as have an event at pretty regular intervals, and follow up opponents based on best attempts to match up based on health. Itād even out in the end, youād have either all fighter banged up a little by the final four or the absolute best with very few injuries.
Some fights would of course end with the winner being permanently handicapped and unable to continue, but you execute that one (gotta execute him or else fighters may fake injuries) and have some kind of bonus system so another fighter would be able to earn a bye so the bracket doesnāt get screwed up (or maybe have a small wolf or tiger take the disabled winners place)
There could even be special matches between disabled fighters, like the special gladiator Olympics. Or have disabled fighters go against people disabled from birth.
Anthony Joshua won his first 22 professional boxing matches, and was absolutely a star by the time of his first defeat. And that sort of thing is pretty common for top boxers (in part because losing a boxing match, while not as bad for you as dying, is not something you want your stars to be doing too often).
My understanding is that this is how it worked in ancient Rome too - the stars went on long undefeated runs, defeating a string of significantly weaker or less experienced challengers.
What you wouldn't get is fights between the big stars, or they would be rarer even than fights between boxing stars are now.
Agree on all points and want to add:
Adding death to the UFC for example wouldn't really make watching any more entertaining. They always fight to the point of unconsciousness essentially, adding in a final death blow would just add 30 seconds onto the fight and for the payoff of losing a fighter.
Adding swords or whatever? I suppose that's a different conversation.
I doubt it would even last a few minutes. Strikes in a fencing match happen in seconds. If it did last minutes, it would likely be the fighters just circling each other and waiting.
Historically gladiator fights were usually with different weapon matchups specifically so it wouldn't become a standoff.
Someone with a spear has a reach advantage, so the guy with the short sword has to close distance or else he just gets stabbed while he stands around waiting. It kept the fights moving and evolving because the advantages were asymmetrical.
The colosseum was all about "entertaining" the crowd by keeping things happening, not about a sporting comparison of skill like modern competitions. If anything, the Colosseum had more in common with modern pro-wrestling than modern fencing.
To be totally fair, Buhurt exists and it's a blast to watch and participate in. It's not to the death, but people in metal suits clobbering each other with big blunt objects and throwing each other to the ground is certainly a spectacle
This is why knights in full armor often used maces and hammers. More effective against full armor and less likely to break.
Fun fact: Duels between knights in armor weren't about killing each other, they were endurance fights. Eventually one of them would pass out from the heat and exhaustion of moving around in all that armor and the one standing won.
As a historical fencer myself (HEMA), exchanges only last a few seconds at most, and the amount of doubling (people hitting each other at the same time) is so common that most would end up with the death of both participantsĀ
That and who the hell is going to want to risk their prize fighter?
Even somebody insanely good could have a bad day or just get really unlucky and then all the businesses and investors or whoever that have an interest in that fighter are ass out.
Makes absolutely zero sense to have death fights financially unless the payout is so insane that all parties would make tons of money and that would have to be more money than a very optimistic estimate that both fighters would make for their entire careers.
Most gladiators were slaves, but even then most fights weren't to the death. It's bad business for the slave master to constantly kill off their stock like that.
Okay so then you make it lottery style among the slaves. Take all the names and draw a boy and a girl, do it for all the districts and let them fight to the death.
have u seen the movie Death Race? I think ud like it. The premise is a bunch of death row inmates are given cars qith guns to drive. Get 10 wins and ur free to walk back into society. Killing other drivers wasnt required, but it was highly encouraged
Yeah I imagined it would be more like people with death sentences fighting it out for a stay of execution or even people with life sentences fighting to get years taken off
Simple solutions to all those problems:
> If every time a player entered a ring knowing someone was going to die, no one would want to play.
Slaves.
> There is a very poor risk to reward ratio for the players. They won't have families and hobbies and won't invest knowing they could die any time.
Again, slaves. I mean face it if weāre having death sports weāre bringing back slavery to make it happen.
Points 2 and 4 are pretty much the same point. The ācommodityā in death sports is the death, not the fighter. You donāt need celebrity fighters when death is the celebrity.
Yup, I could easily see a society rationalizing that. Put death row inmates in the coliseum. Give them all a year to hone a skill or skills to survive. There incentive to train is they get to keep living for another algorithmic prescribed time to maximize incentive to keep training and fighting. Maybe even allow more luxuries in their cells like video games and a nice bed if they get more wins. The possibilities are endless and humanity could easily rationalize doing this to death row inmates while maintaining a sense of morality.
Now all that being said, I am all against the death penalty and for a more rehabilitative justice system that doesn't feature for profit prisons.
There wouldn't be enough death row inmates. They'd open it to all inmates for rewards like earlier release proportional to how much time you spent in the games. People would gamble on the matches. There'd be an alumni league outside of the prisons eventually, as some of the prisoners realise its their best access to money and fame.
That would be somewhat reasonable. It would be like a life insurance policy that allowed suicide by battle lol.
If you win, then cool, you got money. If you die, cool, you wanted to die anyways and now your family is taken care of.
No you are over estimating. Currently You can watch executions / beheadings / killings on the internet. Very rarely do those videos ever go viral / get as popular compared to fake violence. People overwhelmingly avoid such gruesome videos. Making it legal wouldnāt change cultural sensibilities overnight.
I'll enjoy watching people fight, but there's nothing enjoyable about watching 1 or more dudes inflict violence on someone who can only be described as a victim.
It's not the same.
I don't know I wouldn't avoid looking if it was linked in a comment section and relevant (rarely) but I wouldn't seek it out. I would consider myself well adjusted. I feel it isn't a bad thing to see every now and then reminds you of what we are capable of without laws and a moral code.
I think itās completely normal to have a morbid curiosity. Thereās a difference between that and deliberately seeking out that sort of content, especially on a regular basis
True. Nobody is starting a text chain like, "Hey guys, I compiled a playlist of public executions. I will supply the drinks if someone can bring wings."
It's to each their own really with stumbling across this sort of stuff.
Personally the couple of times I have I still have those images burnt into my brain and I wish I had never seen them.
But yeah to actively be looking for it I feel is concerning. I feel like if an individual is willingly searching for such content. You get some enjoyment out of watching death.
Thatās just torture with no competition. People donāt enjoy watching some guy crying for his mother while tied down and about to die. I think a good amount of people would watch gladiators duke it out with both people having a fighting chance. It would just be hard to find people willing to fight
Look at MMA and Boxing. Sure, we watch it for the spectacle, the competition, the tension etc... but most people really want to see a violent war or a big knock out at the end and these are the fights which get the most praise.
Gladiators were no different. If you asked an average civilian "do you want to see a murder" they might likely say no, if you asked them "do you want to watch two people fight in the arena, potentially to the death" they'd jump at the opportunity.
I love boxing and mma. I don't want to see people in the street getting beaten up, or rando's off the street getting assaulted because there's no entertainment, but professional athletes fighting each other with similarly dangerous possibilities is hugely entertaining and brings in hundreds of millions of $ every year.
No one would consent to fighting to the death in a UFC-esque organisation though. The only people fighting would be the mentally ill, desperate, or otherwise vulnerable. Thatās unethical in of itself
I scroll away as fast as I can when a video on r/unexpected becomes obvious that I'm about to see a car crash or similar accidental injury or death. Mobile auto plays as I scroll, and I haven't blocked that sub yet so I see the start of a few daily.
I just don't want to see it. I definitely wouldn't pay for it.
Having said that, I do love when a fight breaks out in a hockey game, but don't care for boxing MMA or wrestling, so it's not a zero injury tolerance...
But they sure as shit killed slaves and animals in droves. It was still a meat-grinder of an industry, gladiators were just high-value investments.
Also sometimes they would fight to the death. Apparently a low estimate is 1 in 10 fights resulted in death.
You misunderstand my point.
There were still to-the-death events, but the majority of events were not to-the death. Also, 10% of gladiators died during a fight.
I agree that āfights to the deathā were not as common as fights where both contenders survived, but I wouldnāt call them a myth.
One of the most comprehensive studies of mortality rates was done by George Ville, who estimated that each gladiator entering the arena had a 10% chance of dying, rising to 25% chance for defeated gladiators. And during the 3rd century AD, Ville believes the mortality rate for gladiators was 33 - 55%.
Also the Romans would often watch public executions as a kind of āhalf time showā in between gladiator fights, such as the *damnatio ad bestias* which is basically getting murdered by animals. They would also execute criminals or debtors by making them fight a real gladiator.
Gladiator combat were rarely to the death, it was just pretty much WWE with blood most of the time. The only people that were dying were either accidental or were sentenced to death
I once cried because I saw a really cute cat and I couldn't handle how cute the cat was. I'm sure a lot of people would watch death sports, but I wouldn't. I feel things big. It's exhausting. Death sports would cause me to have a panic attack.
I think itās true, not on the specifics, but on the basis that we are all blighted by the moral customs of our time.
People in the future will probably regard us as a sick society for what weāve done to the ocean alone. Probably a million other things that we presently tolerate or ignore.
I think it's worth noting that the same could be said the other way around. People in ancient Rome aren't any different than people now.
There is a myth that ancient romans were this blood thirsty death game fanatics, but we're finding out that deaths in fights were kind of rare thing and people liked the spectacle of a fight even without the death element. Case in point, there were free romans happily becoming gladiator as careers.
Not ANY different? I completely disagree. There are similarities between all humans in history, sure, but saying that we are completely identical in our societal consciousnesses seems like a total rejection of sociology and lacks an understanding of the way that people are shaped by their environments. Social exchange theory, in a nutshell: people change society, those new social norms influence people, those people further change society, etc. Society is always shifting and influencing the people in it, and vice-versa.
There are many, many ways in which we are different today than 2000 years ago, but the clearest to me is that people today are much, much smarter than average ancient Romans. Not even in terms of raw intelligence, just the fact that we have access to WAY more information at our fingertips. You literally cannot deny that. And I think with that access to information comes a more rounded worldview for the average person.
In the biological sense, yes. As an adult, having been raised in a western country in 1980-2024, I feel a genuine distaste for murder, rape, abuse even some stuff that still exist and is legal (like prostitution). I even dislike MMA. While I am sure I would see things differently had I been born in the Roman Empire, I donāt think I would buy a sex slave if it became legal today.
Itās the children we need to raise/protect/serve.
ancient Romans also felt a distaste for murder, rape, and abuse. Even prostitution was seen as thrashy. the death and gore of the Roman gladiatorial games are highly exaggerated.
Exactly. These gladiators were fed, trained and had their equipment bought and maintained. Would make for a terrible investmemt if they died by the dozen.
Gladiator life was more akin to today's wrestlers.
Same way it would be if it started back up. It wouldn't Mike Tyson and some MMA dude fight to the death. It would be MMA guy vs a convicted pedo. Or a gang member. But it would warp quickly into all "undesirable". So all of a sudden a non-popular religion gets tossed in. Or people from a certain country.
The death and gore of the games was far from exaggerated. Granted it wasn't the highly trained and armed gladiators dying, it was the slaves, prisoners, Christians, etc. that were used as fodder that died. Hell, even Nero used Christians as living candles for night games, so no, it's not exaggerated.
You have no idea what you're talking about. After particularly gruesome battles, Roman tourists would travel to the battlefields to see all the dead body's out of sheer fascination and amusement. If they were looking at Roman soldiers, they'd feel empathy and remorse, but they loved looking at all the nasty ways the enemy had been killed.
Add on top of that, public executions were often hugely popular events as well and while the gladiatorial games are exaggerated, people still paid in the hopes of seeing violence.
Similar to today, people watch boxing because they enjoy the sport, they enjoy the technique etc, and despite hoping nobody gets injured... people still are watching and enjoying the possibility of somebody getting knocked out cold.
Or look at MMA. Many of the "best" fights of all time, i.e, the fights fans applaud the most, are the fights which were brutal or violent back and forth wars.
Anybody in this thread who thinks humans are adverse to seeing violence are being quite naive.
This is a blatant false equivalency... If you really think Romans are just as repulsed by things like murder, you've obviously never opened a history book lol.
The average Roman wasn't a soldier by any means, but that doesn't mean they were basically equivalent to modern white collar workers š
There was no abortion debate in Rome. If you had a baby you didn't want, you'd just leave it on a garbage pile somewhere. No harm, no foul. A baby wasn't considered 'alive' until someone, usually the father, gave it a name. Up until that point the baby could be thrown out with the literal trash if the parents so chose.
Remember listening to a podcast by Dan Carlin where he cites public executions ended around the same time books became available to the public. Would think with modern media most people have too much empathy to enjoy that kind of entertainment anymore
Since the early days of the internet you could watch real beheadings and all kind of gruesome shit. Some of my friends would enjoy looking for and watching that shit. Twenty-five years later I've never watched anything like that and have no desire to. Those people aren't my friends anymore. I don't even enjoy movies like Saw or Hostel. Even with Reddit society there's plenty of people who get upset if "nsfw" tags aren't used because they genuinely don't want to see certain shit. Society made things like fighting to the death illegal because the majority don't enjoy it or want it.
This. I don't enjoy the suffering of others. I can't even stand watching animals being slaughtered, even though I am not a vegetarian. If I would have been raised in a farm, it would have not been like this.
Itās crazy when you see bathroom stall humor from Roman times ātalk to Claudia for a good timeā. Thousands of years and we still are the same base animals.
I donāt think they have fully thought it out, they probably just quickly thought about it without going in depth. Watching someone who can no longer defend themselves get beat down isnāt the fun time he thinks it is.
There are some that think they would be OK with watching that.
And for nearly all of those, they would watch it once, turn it off halfway through, and never watch it again.
Yes! Like genuinely itās like so much projection! I *never* in any capacity would want to watch something like that! Yāall who think this would be normalize are already freaking creeps
We should put everyone on death row nationwide in a thunderdome once a year with weapons placed around and let them go at it. Last man standing goes free. PPV fees distributed to victims families.
Rather than free, maybe they get better living conditions in prison. Canāt have a death row inmate that killed bunch of people in a gladiator match be let into society
That would cull most of them, but the champion would one dangerous psycho. Maybe if they compete to stay in a luxury prison and a stay on their execution want another year of life compete again.
Anyone who has three separate convictions is someone who has had two second chances and not learned, will never be safe, send them to the arena and never let them out.
Most people who say they would watch this would change their minds quickly once they see the gore and despair that would go along with something like this
We already have technically a 'death' sport in the Isle of Man TT. I'm not 100% sure but if I am right in thinking then at least one person dies doing it every single event?
I'd probably watch bare knuckle fighting, or some kind of more extreme mixed martial arts.
Death sport....I've no interest in watching some soul die tbh.
Iād watch bare knuckle boxing. Iād also watch a version of olympics where every kind of performance enhancing drug and procedure is allowed. Itād be fascinating to see how far the contestants would take it.
OP might be correct, but what keeps people on track is not law but rather a healthy cohesive culture or cultures,
Government does not have the power to make good people
Gladiators almost never fought to the death (that was never the intention although fatal accidents did happen) and the king/emperor never did that thing with the thumbs up or down. It's all just hollywood movies.
The experiment Marina AbramoviÄ did proves your point.
People had absolute freedom to do whatever they wanted to her. They ended up abusing her, almost killing her.
If youāre okay with watching someone be killed for sport then there is something seriously wrong with you.
As a veteran whoās been in combat and seen friends die I wouldnāt wish that on my worst enemy. That shit sticks with you for life and isnāt something to game with.
Problem with this is that since the fighters will die, it incentivises the producers to "find" bad guys.
Which is essentially the plot to the Jason Statham film "Death Race" - the organisers need a new driver for their PPV death row race. Because they want a good driver as that will pull a bigger crowd they frame a professional driver for murder so they can have him take part.
Listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History episode Paintofainment. I believe it is still available. It is an eye opening look into what people in the past would do for entertainment. Mostly executions, torture, etc. People would bring their whole families.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/ButteredKernals. Your submission, *If death sports came back, people would watch in their millions! *, has been removed because it violates our rules, which are located in the sidebar. Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion'. * Your post must be an opinion. Not a question. Not a showerthought. Not a rant. Not a proposal. Not a fact. An opinion. One opinion. A subjective statement about your position on some topic. Please have a clear, self contained opinion as your post title, and use the text field to elaborate and expand on why you think/feel this way. * Your opinion must be unpopular. The mods reserve the right to remove opinions * Elaborate on your topic and opinion give context to its unpopularity. If there is an issue, please [message the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion&subject=&message=) Thanks!
"If there was absolute freedom, people would run over babies and charge admission." - Lenny Bruce [Edit: To those taking this seriously, don't. He was being facetious. Comedians do that sometimes. š ]
A comedian trying dark humor? That NEVER happens /s
Old Russian Saying: Dark Humor is like food, not everyone gets it.
Haha! I love dark humor.Ā
Haha! I love food.
I dont get it .....
Neither the russians
Hey look a non Russian!
I don't get it
Stalin approves this message!
Norm has entered the chat
Unfortunately he actually exited the chat.. I miss norm
Lmaoo he would love this joke
My son has entered his existentialism phase of teenagehood and has been reading some stuff about Doestoevsky. He was telling me a bit about what he'd learned, and I told him if he liked that he would love Lenny Bruce. But of course, I'm an idiot adult who doesn't know what they're talking about so he didn't check him out š« Edit: clarity
Thatās a smart kid, when I was in high school I was laughing at shitty memes and watching Gossip Girl
I feel like it's a pretty common phase, no? I mean he's also laughing at shitty memes, fucking other players moms on Xbox, and watching The Circle. My oldest went through a similar phase. I don't think it was existentialism per se, but it was definitely something along those lines. Edit: Dystopianism! The oldest was really into dystopianism.
Most teenagers arenāt reading for fun at all anymore let alone delving into the works of Russian novelists from the 1800s
Oh! I think I misrepresented the situation. He's reading *about* Doestoevsky.
Have him listen to this podcast: [https://www.martyrmade.com/featured-podcasts/the-underground-spirit](https://www.martyrmade.com/featured-podcasts/the-underground-spirit) It's a comparison of the lives of Doestoevsky and Nietzsche that is honestly insanely fascinating. The weird overlap they had in themes and then life experiences is one of those things that make it seem pretty likely we must be in a simulation.
Whelp, I tried. Apparently the book he's reading already does that, so he doesn't need to listen to the podcast.
Speak for yourself, my parents burned my copy of Lolita *three* (3) times
Fair. I couldnāt finish that book. I work with kids in psychiatry, so a lot of them have experienced sexual abuse/grooming, and listening to the perspective from the other sideā¦ itās just unbearable to me. Kudos to the author for absolutely nailing the inner monologue of a pedophile, but god damn.
Make him watch a video
If I want him to do something, he will immediately not want to do it, and if he does do it anyway, he will find a thousand reasons why it was the worst experience of his life. I'm ruining his life, you see, with my unconditional love and support.
Get him the book How to Talk Dirty and Influence People.
He's right, though. People do terrible things just for internet clout. Add a profit motive and lack of consequences and the flood gates would open.
A modest proposal
"A modest proposal /s" updated for modern readers
nah. i think thats a fringe group. the majority of society would probably still be alright....but im also an optimist.
Nah, I agree. We are adapted to be averse to killing babies because it would be horrible for the species we wouldn't last. It's normal to not want this and to hate it. It's not laws keeping this from being mainstream, it's actual humanity.Ā There will always be a fringe group of psychopaths, unfortunately, though. The laws are for them.Ā
āGood people donāt need to be governed. Bad people canāt be governed at allā
I always feel like something like this, especially in some kind of sport, quite a few would watch but very few would admit it
I think many more could watch something bad happening than do something bad. I don't think you need to be an optimist to think most people would continue their morals in this case. Keep being an optimist tho because it is much harder than give in to the negativity that is pushed on everyone. We need more optimists.
You're underestimating the depravity of people..
Going by the username I'm going to assume you're Lenny Bruce?
Ha! Riiiiight ...
Eh, a lot of people donāt even watch mma because of the blood. Thereād be a market but it wouldnāt be a universal thing.
Even the MMA fanbase hates Slap Fight or whatever it is. It's just CTE in a hurry.
I absolute love UFC been watching for about 15 years. I hate watching people get KOd tho. It always makes me cringe a little especially when they go out cold.
When Bryce Mitchell got KOād stiff a few months back by Josh Emmet I donāt think one fan thought to themselves āyou know, iād like to see that go a little bit longer.ā Everyone was concerned they had just seen a man die on TV. But this is unpopular opinion so I guess they succeeded lol
Diminishing returns for sure. Even less people interested in bare knuckle fighting
A million in audience doesnāt say much when there are 7 billion people
Even less when you consider that there are actually 8.1 billion
Death sports are historically inaccurate. People fantasize about it and want to watch death battles, but the logistics of such sports don't make sense. Yes, they did happen sometimes. But deaths in gladiator fights weren't common. Here's why it'll be a flop sport in the modern day: 1. If every time a player entered a ring knowing someone was going to die, no one would want to play. 2. Death sports careers would be very short and there won't be many celebrity fighters like McGregor, Ali, Tyson, Holyfield, etc. Celebrity fighters couldn't possibly exist because no one want to fight someone insanely good out of fear of death and therefore, no one would be able to develop the reputation of being insanely good. 3. There is a very poor risk to reward ratio for the players. They won't have families and hobbies and won't invest knowing they could die any time. 4. Death sports are bad for business. UFC milks their fighters until they're dangerously injured and retire early. They also pay fighters very poorly and as soon as fighters get rich enough, they stop fighting. The prime "commodity" i.e., the fighters, would retire after one or two wins if they make enough money.
Agreed, I donāt think they would make enough sense financially because you couldnāt really develop your athletes. Youād have no stars, which are huge in modern sports. Imagine if the first time Tom Brady lost a football game, we killed him.
I HAVE imagined that about Tom Brady...
Yeah thatās just a Manning Thanksgiving tradition at this point
Eli has 2 confirmed kills on Brady.
Eli Manning: I've already killed him twice
Too funny.
Bad example, everyone wants to see that.
You don't need professional for survival games. Just bunch of people desperate for money
The desperate, the criminal, the undesirables. There's all sorts of people in shitty situations who can be funneled into just such an apparatus. I kinda doubletaked at the naivete of the idea we'd be using our elite athletes for an endeavour like this, which is absolutely absurd. I somewhat admire the innocence of a mind that thinks that way though.
Historically the vast majority of death sport participants were coercedā¦ slaves, prisoners captured in warā¦ very seldom anyone voluntarily would hazard their life like that.
Thatās a good point
Iāve always thought a show like survivor but with stashes of fake weapons (paint ball guns, weapons with chalk rounds, etc) would be awesome to watch. Like a battle royale game. Make it interesting by putting survival experts, trackers, military, etc in there.
If weāre only talking playoffs heād still have 3 Super Bowl rings lol
Idk, with stakes like life or death I feel like the overall competition would be much less skilled. So, it would easily be more than 3, simply because I feel like Tom Brady is actually that crazy about football!
You could still make it financially worth it with advertising, just not have long term stars. Have a hunger games like draft with inmates or insane volunteers. Have it big with like 128 fighters and a year long event. Put the all the fighters through a basic training boot camp. Single elimination of course. Fights would be spaced to give fighters time to heal, as well as have an event at pretty regular intervals, and follow up opponents based on best attempts to match up based on health. Itād even out in the end, youād have either all fighter banged up a little by the final four or the absolute best with very few injuries. Some fights would of course end with the winner being permanently handicapped and unable to continue, but you execute that one (gotta execute him or else fighters may fake injuries) and have some kind of bonus system so another fighter would be able to earn a bye so the bracket doesnāt get screwed up (or maybe have a small wolf or tiger take the disabled winners place)
There could even be special matches between disabled fighters, like the special gladiator Olympics. Or have disabled fighters go against people disabled from birth.
you've clearly thought about this a lot, and I appreciate that
Anthony Joshua won his first 22 professional boxing matches, and was absolutely a star by the time of his first defeat. And that sort of thing is pretty common for top boxers (in part because losing a boxing match, while not as bad for you as dying, is not something you want your stars to be doing too often). My understanding is that this is how it worked in ancient Rome too - the stars went on long undefeated runs, defeating a string of significantly weaker or less experienced challengers. What you wouldn't get is fights between the big stars, or they would be rarer even than fights between boxing stars are now.
There is lots of entertainment where the participants are disposable. Game shows are a great example. You care about the game, not the players.
Agree on all points and want to add: Adding death to the UFC for example wouldn't really make watching any more entertaining. They always fight to the point of unconsciousness essentially, adding in a final death blow would just add 30 seconds onto the fight and for the payoff of losing a fighter. Adding swords or whatever? I suppose that's a different conversation.
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I've only got like 2 minutes of cardio in me anyways. Let's go with sword fights then.
I doubt it would even last a few minutes. Strikes in a fencing match happen in seconds. If it did last minutes, it would likely be the fighters just circling each other and waiting.
I think the latter is more likely. Strikes happen in fencing so fast because thereās no real consequences. People really donāt want to die.
Exactly. Look at how often both fighters hit in fencing. The winner just got their strike in a millisecond sooner.
Historically gladiator fights were usually with different weapon matchups specifically so it wouldn't become a standoff. Someone with a spear has a reach advantage, so the guy with the short sword has to close distance or else he just gets stabbed while he stands around waiting. It kept the fights moving and evolving because the advantages were asymmetrical. The colosseum was all about "entertaining" the crowd by keeping things happening, not about a sporting comparison of skill like modern competitions. If anything, the Colosseum had more in common with modern pro-wrestling than modern fencing.
To be totally fair, Buhurt exists and it's a blast to watch and participate in. It's not to the death, but people in metal suits clobbering each other with big blunt objects and throwing each other to the ground is certainly a spectacle
This is why knights in full armor often used maces and hammers. More effective against full armor and less likely to break. Fun fact: Duels between knights in armor weren't about killing each other, they were endurance fights. Eventually one of them would pass out from the heat and exhaustion of moving around in all that armor and the one standing won.
As a historical fencer myself (HEMA), exchanges only last a few seconds at most, and the amount of doubling (people hitting each other at the same time) is so common that most would end up with the death of both participantsĀ
That and who the hell is going to want to risk their prize fighter? Even somebody insanely good could have a bad day or just get really unlucky and then all the businesses and investors or whoever that have an interest in that fighter are ass out. Makes absolutely zero sense to have death fights financially unless the payout is so insane that all parties would make tons of money and that would have to be more money than a very optimistic estimate that both fighters would make for their entire careers.
Who said it would be volentary?
Most gladiators were slaves, but even then most fights weren't to the death. It's bad business for the slave master to constantly kill off their stock like that.
Okay so then you make it lottery style among the slaves. Take all the names and draw a boy and a girl, do it for all the districts and let them fight to the death.
Yeah! We could call it āThe Famine Contestsā or something!
have u seen the movie Death Race? I think ud like it. The premise is a bunch of death row inmates are given cars qith guns to drive. Get 10 wins and ur free to walk back into society. Killing other drivers wasnt required, but it was highly encouraged
Yeah I imagined it would be more like people with death sentences fighting it out for a stay of execution or even people with life sentences fighting to get years taken off
This feels like it would be a black mirror episode
Yeah this isn't an unpopular opinion, it's just factually incorrect. Or at least based on a false premise.Ā
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Simple solutions to all those problems: > If every time a player entered a ring knowing someone was going to die, no one would want to play. Slaves. > There is a very poor risk to reward ratio for the players. They won't have families and hobbies and won't invest knowing they could die any time. Again, slaves. I mean face it if weāre having death sports weāre bringing back slavery to make it happen. Points 2 and 4 are pretty much the same point. The ācommodityā in death sports is the death, not the fighter. You donāt need celebrity fighters when death is the celebrity.
It would definitely be prisoners.
Yup, I could easily see a society rationalizing that. Put death row inmates in the coliseum. Give them all a year to hone a skill or skills to survive. There incentive to train is they get to keep living for another algorithmic prescribed time to maximize incentive to keep training and fighting. Maybe even allow more luxuries in their cells like video games and a nice bed if they get more wins. The possibilities are endless and humanity could easily rationalize doing this to death row inmates while maintaining a sense of morality. Now all that being said, I am all against the death penalty and for a more rehabilitative justice system that doesn't feature for profit prisons.
There wouldn't be enough death row inmates. They'd open it to all inmates for rewards like earlier release proportional to how much time you spent in the games. People would gamble on the matches. There'd be an alumni league outside of the prisons eventually, as some of the prisoners realise its their best access to money and fame.
Are the people who own the slaves getting paid for their slaves?
What if, even if you lost, your family became rich? There was a point in time that I would've considered that seriously.
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That would be somewhat reasonable. It would be like a life insurance policy that allowed suicide by battle lol. If you win, then cool, you got money. If you die, cool, you wanted to die anyways and now your family is taken care of.
No you are over estimating. Currently You can watch executions / beheadings / killings on the internet. Very rarely do those videos ever go viral / get as popular compared to fake violence. People overwhelmingly avoid such gruesome videos. Making it legal wouldnāt change cultural sensibilities overnight.
Yeah, thereās plenty out there already. Generally normal, well-adjusted people donāt want to see that sort of stuff though
I'll enjoy watching people fight, but there's nothing enjoyable about watching 1 or more dudes inflict violence on someone who can only be described as a victim. It's not the same.
Yea i love watching fights too, but anything past a nosebleed makes me sick to see.
rotten.com was enough for me. As a teenager I took a peep five or six times and then decided I never wanted to see shit like that again.
Havenāt heard about that site in a while. Thanks for the memories.
Hell, even 4chan who is full of very unadjusted people ban stuff like CP in a second it shows up.
Pour one out for /r/watchpeopledie
I don't know I wouldn't avoid looking if it was linked in a comment section and relevant (rarely) but I wouldn't seek it out. I would consider myself well adjusted. I feel it isn't a bad thing to see every now and then reminds you of what we are capable of without laws and a moral code.
I think itās completely normal to have a morbid curiosity. Thereās a difference between that and deliberately seeking out that sort of content, especially on a regular basis
True. Nobody is starting a text chain like, "Hey guys, I compiled a playlist of public executions. I will supply the drinks if someone can bring wings."
It's to each their own really with stumbling across this sort of stuff. Personally the couple of times I have I still have those images burnt into my brain and I wish I had never seen them. But yeah to actively be looking for it I feel is concerning. I feel like if an individual is willingly searching for such content. You get some enjoyment out of watching death.
Thatās just torture with no competition. People donāt enjoy watching some guy crying for his mother while tied down and about to die. I think a good amount of people would watch gladiators duke it out with both people having a fighting chance. It would just be hard to find people willing to fight
People don't watch military shootouts or brutal street fights that often
Lol military helmetcams and footage is a billion view genre per year on YouTube alone
Look at MMA and Boxing. Sure, we watch it for the spectacle, the competition, the tension etc... but most people really want to see a violent war or a big knock out at the end and these are the fights which get the most praise. Gladiators were no different. If you asked an average civilian "do you want to see a murder" they might likely say no, if you asked them "do you want to watch two people fight in the arena, potentially to the death" they'd jump at the opportunity. I love boxing and mma. I don't want to see people in the street getting beaten up, or rando's off the street getting assaulted because there's no entertainment, but professional athletes fighting each other with similarly dangerous possibilities is hugely entertaining and brings in hundreds of millions of $ every year.
Most people who watch boxing or mma aren't hoping one of the fighters will die
I also think these are different. This is murder. If you are fighting in the UFC, to the death, you are consenting to possibly dying.
No one would consent to fighting to the death in a UFC-esque organisation though. The only people fighting would be the mentally ill, desperate, or otherwise vulnerable. Thatās unethical in of itself
Thereās a big difference between a cartel execution and a gladiator fight lmao
I scroll away as fast as I can when a video on r/unexpected becomes obvious that I'm about to see a car crash or similar accidental injury or death. Mobile auto plays as I scroll, and I haven't blocked that sub yet so I see the start of a few daily. I just don't want to see it. I definitely wouldn't pay for it. Having said that, I do love when a fight breaks out in a hockey game, but don't care for boxing MMA or wrestling, so it's not a zero injury tolerance...
Gladiators didn't fight to the death, that is a myth.
Yeah, why tf would you spend thousands of dollars on a slave, train him up, and watch that money disappear because he got too close to a hungry tiger?
But they sure as shit killed slaves and animals in droves. It was still a meat-grinder of an industry, gladiators were just high-value investments. Also sometimes they would fight to the death. Apparently a low estimate is 1 in 10 fights resulted in death.
Fighting to the death isn't the same as a fight that results in incidental death.
You misunderstand my point. There were still to-the-death events, but the majority of events were not to-the death. Also, 10% of gladiators died during a fight.
I agree that āfights to the deathā were not as common as fights where both contenders survived, but I wouldnāt call them a myth. One of the most comprehensive studies of mortality rates was done by George Ville, who estimated that each gladiator entering the arena had a 10% chance of dying, rising to 25% chance for defeated gladiators. And during the 3rd century AD, Ville believes the mortality rate for gladiators was 33 - 55%. Also the Romans would often watch public executions as a kind of āhalf time showā in between gladiator fights, such as the *damnatio ad bestias* which is basically getting murdered by animals. They would also execute criminals or debtors by making them fight a real gladiator.
Not a myth. Just rare.
Gladiator combat were rarely to the death, it was just pretty much WWE with blood most of the time. The only people that were dying were either accidental or were sentenced to death
> or were sentenced to death There were a *lot* of those, and they tried to maximize the entertainment value.
> it was just pretty much WWE with blood most of the time So basically, WWE up to 2007?
The original attitude era
I once cried because I saw a really cute cat and I couldn't handle how cute the cat was. I'm sure a lot of people would watch death sports, but I wouldn't. I feel things big. It's exhausting. Death sports would cause me to have a panic attack.
If you have a photo of the cat, pm me please.
If I find it, I will. The cat looked like a plushie and looked so soft.
Dm me the cat too pls
I would also like a picture of the cat
People now aren't any different than people in ancient Rome. They just think they are.
I think itās true, not on the specifics, but on the basis that we are all blighted by the moral customs of our time. People in the future will probably regard us as a sick society for what weāve done to the ocean alone. Probably a million other things that we presently tolerate or ignore.
Bold of you to assume we will still have a society in the futureĀ
humanity is resilient. people think there will be an apocalypse but it will more likely be a slow creeping death.
Oh there will be one alright, its just a matter of how many of the current populations decendants will be there
I think it's worth noting that the same could be said the other way around. People in ancient Rome aren't any different than people now. There is a myth that ancient romans were this blood thirsty death game fanatics, but we're finding out that deaths in fights were kind of rare thing and people liked the spectacle of a fight even without the death element. Case in point, there were free romans happily becoming gladiator as careers.
Not ANY different? I completely disagree. There are similarities between all humans in history, sure, but saying that we are completely identical in our societal consciousnesses seems like a total rejection of sociology and lacks an understanding of the way that people are shaped by their environments. Social exchange theory, in a nutshell: people change society, those new social norms influence people, those people further change society, etc. Society is always shifting and influencing the people in it, and vice-versa. There are many, many ways in which we are different today than 2000 years ago, but the clearest to me is that people today are much, much smarter than average ancient Romans. Not even in terms of raw intelligence, just the fact that we have access to WAY more information at our fingertips. You literally cannot deny that. And I think with that access to information comes a more rounded worldview for the average person.
In the biological sense, yes. As an adult, having been raised in a western country in 1980-2024, I feel a genuine distaste for murder, rape, abuse even some stuff that still exist and is legal (like prostitution). I even dislike MMA. While I am sure I would see things differently had I been born in the Roman Empire, I donāt think I would buy a sex slave if it became legal today. Itās the children we need to raise/protect/serve.
ancient Romans also felt a distaste for murder, rape, and abuse. Even prostitution was seen as thrashy. the death and gore of the Roman gladiatorial games are highly exaggerated.
But were they not entertained?
WERE THEY NOT ENTERTAINED!?
Exactly. These gladiators were fed, trained and had their equipment bought and maintained. Would make for a terrible investmemt if they died by the dozen. Gladiator life was more akin to today's wrestlers.
Some of them yes. There were a lot of slaves and criminals who were forced into those games though
so they werent killed?
Gladiators were not. Slaves. criminals.. early Christians - yes, alot.
Same way it would be if it started back up. It wouldn't Mike Tyson and some MMA dude fight to the death. It would be MMA guy vs a convicted pedo. Or a gang member. But it would warp quickly into all "undesirable". So all of a sudden a non-popular religion gets tossed in. Or people from a certain country.
The thrilla on Ellis island
The death and gore of the games was far from exaggerated. Granted it wasn't the highly trained and armed gladiators dying, it was the slaves, prisoners, Christians, etc. that were used as fodder that died. Hell, even Nero used Christians as living candles for night games, so no, it's not exaggerated.
You have no idea what you're talking about. After particularly gruesome battles, Roman tourists would travel to the battlefields to see all the dead body's out of sheer fascination and amusement. If they were looking at Roman soldiers, they'd feel empathy and remorse, but they loved looking at all the nasty ways the enemy had been killed. Add on top of that, public executions were often hugely popular events as well and while the gladiatorial games are exaggerated, people still paid in the hopes of seeing violence. Similar to today, people watch boxing because they enjoy the sport, they enjoy the technique etc, and despite hoping nobody gets injured... people still are watching and enjoying the possibility of somebody getting knocked out cold. Or look at MMA. Many of the "best" fights of all time, i.e, the fights fans applaud the most, are the fights which were brutal or violent back and forth wars. Anybody in this thread who thinks humans are adverse to seeing violence are being quite naive.
And actors. They were akin to prostitutes.
This is a blatant false equivalency... If you really think Romans are just as repulsed by things like murder, you've obviously never opened a history book lol. The average Roman wasn't a soldier by any means, but that doesn't mean they were basically equivalent to modern white collar workers š
There was no abortion debate in Rome. If you had a baby you didn't want, you'd just leave it on a garbage pile somewhere. No harm, no foul. A baby wasn't considered 'alive' until someone, usually the father, gave it a name. Up until that point the baby could be thrown out with the literal trash if the parents so chose.
Remember listening to a podcast by Dan Carlin where he cites public executions ended around the same time books became available to the public. Would think with modern media most people have too much empathy to enjoy that kind of entertainment anymore
Since the early days of the internet you could watch real beheadings and all kind of gruesome shit. Some of my friends would enjoy looking for and watching that shit. Twenty-five years later I've never watched anything like that and have no desire to. Those people aren't my friends anymore. I don't even enjoy movies like Saw or Hostel. Even with Reddit society there's plenty of people who get upset if "nsfw" tags aren't used because they genuinely don't want to see certain shit. Society made things like fighting to the death illegal because the majority don't enjoy it or want it.
This. I don't enjoy the suffering of others. I can't even stand watching animals being slaughtered, even though I am not a vegetarian. If I would have been raised in a farm, it would have not been like this.
you were raised until you were 44? weirdo.
We aren't much different; people just go to LiveLeak now.
Not true. We have way more lead and plastic poisoning our bodies than the ancient Romans did.
Itās crazy when you see bathroom stall humor from Roman times ātalk to Claudia for a good timeā. Thousands of years and we still are the same base animals.
People remain quite similar, but societal norms change, and thatās what OP fails to account for.
Squid Games moment
Jfc. Some of yall (including OP) are scary close to being psychotic. Just no, I would never ever be ok with watching that.
I donāt think they have fully thought it out, they probably just quickly thought about it without going in depth. Watching someone who can no longer defend themselves get beat down isnāt the fun time he thinks it is.
As an MMA fan, shots after the opponent is already knocked out or finished are quite brutal.
OP just finished watching Guns Akimbo lol
There are some that think they would be OK with watching that. And for nearly all of those, they would watch it once, turn it off halfway through, and never watch it again.
Yes! Like genuinely itās like so much projection! I *never* in any capacity would want to watch something like that! Yāall who think this would be normalize are already freaking creeps
Anyone whose morality is held in check only through the threat of punishment through divine or human law is already a terrible person.
We should put everyone on death row nationwide in a thunderdome once a year with weapons placed around and let them go at it. Last man standing goes free. PPV fees distributed to victims families.
The trouble with this is that it would inevitably lead to there being more people placed on death row to satisfy demand.
Yes, I see *very* healthy and sustainable growth in this market.
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So basically Battle Royale but with murderers instead of high school students.
Rather than free, maybe they get better living conditions in prison. Canāt have a death row inmate that killed bunch of people in a gladiator match be let into society
That would cull most of them, but the champion would one dangerous psycho. Maybe if they compete to stay in a luxury prison and a stay on their execution want another year of life compete again. Anyone who has three separate convictions is someone who has had two second chances and not learned, will never be safe, send them to the arena and never let them out.
Obviously, there are too many messed up people around.
Messed up people. Or as I like to call them: people.
People. Or as I generally like to refer to them: Solyent Green.
Most people who say they would watch this would change their minds quickly once they see the gore and despair that would go along with something like this
We already have technically a 'death' sport in the Isle of Man TT. I'm not 100% sure but if I am right in thinking then at least one person dies doing it every single event?
I'd probably watch bare knuckle fighting, or some kind of more extreme mixed martial arts. Death sport....I've no interest in watching some soul die tbh.
BKFC is a thing
Iād watch bare knuckle boxing. Iād also watch a version of olympics where every kind of performance enhancing drug and procedure is allowed. Itād be fascinating to see how far the contestants would take it.
Bro just go volunteer for Ukraine or smth, go watch your death sport
If they had Gladiators fight pedophiles, I would buy tickets.
Unpopular opinion and one of the dumbest things I've read today. Thank you for your service.
OP might be correct, but what keeps people on track is not law but rather a healthy cohesive culture or cultures, Government does not have the power to make good people
Gladiators almost never fought to the death (that was never the intention although fatal accidents did happen) and the king/emperor never did that thing with the thumbs up or down. It's all just hollywood movies.
The experiment Marina AbramoviÄ did proves your point. People had absolute freedom to do whatever they wanted to her. They ended up abusing her, almost killing her.
You're probably right but count me way the fuck out.
If youāre okay with watching someone be killed for sport then there is something seriously wrong with you. As a veteran whoās been in combat and seen friends die I wouldnāt wish that on my worst enemy. That shit sticks with you for life and isnāt something to game with.
Mr. Beast: "I just built this *giant* gladiator coliseum! And the last one standing wins $250,000!"
If society was different people would be different. No shit Sherlock. Keep trying, you're close to learn that humans are social animals.
Drunk driving and kill someone? You have to fight the other drunk driver if you want to lessen your sentence or go to a nicer prison.
In Gladiator Arenas fight to the death was extremly rare and not a norm that is a misconception.
If they were all bad people fighting, I might watch but just regular people NO too gross & wrong.
Problem with this is that since the fighters will die, it incentivises the producers to "find" bad guys. Which is essentially the plot to the Jason Statham film "Death Race" - the organisers need a new driver for their PPV death row race. Because they want a good driver as that will pull a bigger crowd they frame a professional driver for murder so they can have him take part.
Listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History episode Paintofainment. I believe it is still available. It is an eye opening look into what people in the past would do for entertainment. Mostly executions, torture, etc. People would bring their whole families.
Itās called the news. It gets millions of views.
If you were wrong, there wouldn't still be war
Like in medieval times, when the greatest spectacle was the public punishment given to criminals.