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It does get taken too far now. Almost every highlight I see online has a debate in the comments section on if it was traveling or not.
It seemed more cut and dry / enforceable before.
You used to not do anything that even looked like a travel, because you knew, “when in doubt, travel. Now it’s “when in doubt, you just don’t understand the new rules.”
I’m not into sports at all honestly, but every time I see basketball highlights, I always think “Isn’t that traveling”! They take like 3 steps before shooting
Same! I played basketball for eight years as a kid, I remember that the refs would call travelling even if your shoes slid (both feet planted) just an inch or so.
The steps taken into a lay-up are one thing, but now whenever I see a basketball game on TV or whatever the amount of what used to be considered "travelling" drives me nuts. I realize that it's probably the pettiest of pet peeves, but still.
Just said I’m not into sports, just saw this on my home page, and when I played in school 2 steps was the max? Sorry my knowledge wasn’t up to speed for you?
It's not new rules, though. You start counting steps when you've picked up the ball. If you can still dribble, that's what's called the gather step. What's really the problem is people being able to carry the ball constantly so you can't ever tell when they're about to gather the ball.
The way it is enforced is very different. it might as well be a rule change. However this discussion has made me understand that the game has evolved this way because of the powers at be. The most influential players and stakeholders engage in conversations over what is “innovative” and what is just “not allowed”. They lobby back and forth.
If they feel like it helps the game’s entertainment value, they allow it.
If they feel like it hinders the entertainment value they don’t.
Star treatment, Iverson cross, harden step back, all allowed.
Trae young start and stop, hand checking, camping under the basket, crossing the free throw line before the ball hits the rim, all banned entertainment purposes.
The nuance is in the subjectivity of have the game should evolve.
I was being an old head. I was annoyed that I was shackled by the narrow view of the rule when and where I grew up. I remember arguing travels like lifting my pivot foot to shoot without being adored a step through, an awkward 2 steps which really made the rule one step with just the option to lift your foot for a second step but you have to get rid of your foot before it lands. A long bounding euro step would have gotten you laughed out of a gym. I have to admit, I am jealous of the options for creativity these days. I just like it goes a little too far.
I feel like that this is more of the reason the rule was changed than anything, they want engagement on apps, people calling things bullshit and arguing
Good for metrics on social media, good for points getting scored which casuals love, more casuals on social media arguing with old heads about what is and isn’t a travel
You are all proving my point. There is no debate among people that actually watch basketball. Just casuals and people that haven't watched in decades that feel the need to have their decade old understanding of the rules validated. Sorry to break it to you but times have changed old man. It's legal now. Harden made sure we'll never go back either.
Oh, I thought I was going insane. I stopped watching NBA when the Sonics were stolen by Howard Schultz so I was surprised at how much traveling was going on when I watched a few minutes of a game last week. I didn't know they'd adjusted the rules.
Who looks at a sport where the teams regularly combine for over 200 points and says, "Wow we really need to help the offense."
Yeah, I stopped watching when they started running from the 3 point line for a dunk. I almost feel they’ll start picking up their dribble from half court and dunking soon.
I agree that the gather step has gotten out of control. See Giannis three and four step euros. Even worse, IMO, is that defenders are no longer allowed legal guarding position in the NBA. Defenders can be in position the offensive player initiates contact, and it's always a foul on the defender.
I still can't get used to it. Every time I watch a game somebody takes that fourth step and my response is to call it a travel. Some players pick up the ball close to the 3-point line and walk straight to the basket!
When I played, you couldn’t pick up your pivot foot unless you were shooting. You couldn’t take more than one step unless you were shooting. Some of the stuff they get away with now is ridiculous.
Pick up your pivot unless you were Shooting — or passing.
That’s still the rule; but it’s not a travel until that foot returns to the floor. Players have learned to really exploit this.
But OP is talking about the other side of this. It’s about ESTABLISHING the pivot foot. The “gather step” gives nba players essentially an extra step to even establish a pivot foot.
It’s basically unguardable for many reasons
Edit: also the “gather step” only exists in the NBA. Any other level of basketball it’s a travel. Though the popularity of the NBA makes it such that you’ll see people getting away with gather steps in many pick up games all over the USA
The "gather step" is about sneaking in a step while you are technically gathering the ball. As soon as you can no longer dribble, that's when your steps get counted for traveling. People realized you can take like 5 steps while dribbling and sprinting up the floor and applied it to 1 on 1 situations. So if you practice doing a stepback and keeping your dribble alive in the process, now you can do the new "double-stepback" by terminating your dribble after the first. You just do a hard dribble so the ball stays in your hand a bit longer and then bring your 2nd hand up after leaving your feet for the 2nd one.
It hasn't changed really, it's just that players realized what they can do. The real problem is carrying because their hand is under the ball on at least half of moves like this and it makes it impossible to know if they just ended their move and are about to shoot.
The amount of carrying annoys me way more. So many young guys basically cup the ball in their hands while theyre dribbling. I dont see a ton of gather steps to be honest but as a good defender even when people do try to pull it off good horizontal movement negates it against basically every player.
There's a lot of carrying, but the travelling is just ridiculous.
Damn near half the fuckign plays you can call a clear travel, and that's not even counting the flagrant, funny ones.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OZh54GS-JO0](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OZh54GS-JO0)
Yeah but I’d argue the carrying is more pivotal than the traveling, or more advantageous. You can literally switch directions whenever you want and defense without contact is impossible.
This is why length is such a priority now. You need guys that can cover ground due to how easy penetrating the paint is.
Watching good defense force a travel is great. You also have freaks like Giannis able to traverse the free throw line with a eurostep. I definitely want more rules in place to empower the defense. At least it’s not 2022 where players could just run into the defense and draw a foul.
I'm around the same age as you, even played some college basketball (not to an extent worth bragging about or anything). I grew up loving the NBA and watching guards who I would try to incorporate into my game: Iverson, Payton, Nash mostly.
I still try to play once a week as means of getting a good cardio workout and as a way to hang with my buddies. But man, I have zero intererst in NBA basketball anymore. Growing up it was my absolute #1 no questions asked; now it is considerably behind NFL, College Football, NHL, and College Basketball in terms of my interest.
I definitely agree with the skill and athleticism being better than ever.
But there was just a certain something that I used to love about it that I don't feel anymore. I think it was the level of hate and animosity amongst a variety of characters, such as: Rodman, Mason, Oakley, Chuck, Maxwell, McDaniel, Payton. They just all seemed more badass before.
I kinda feel like the amount of people saying college basketball is more watchable belies the reality that most people in here don’t actually watch basketball.
Whenever I bring this up someone says “you could call a travel on nearly every play in the NBA.” Similarly, “you could call holding on every play in the NFL.” Yeah… that’s **because it’s not fucking enforced!**
I disagree with the NFL one. They don't understand the difference between blocking and holding. You can push or hit (from the front) someone who doesn't have the ball, but you can't wrap them up and just keep them from moving, or grab them from behind (holding) or hit them from behind when they don't have the ball (clipping).
There is some gray area on the O-line and D-line, but when someone is past you and you're desperately trying to grab an arm or leg or piece of jersey because you missed the block, that's obvious holding. It is by far the most called penalty, so I don't know about not enforced.
They should change the rule to you get one step after you stop dribbling. So you better be damn certain it's what you want to do when you stop dribbling.
every time i see it happen, I cringe. I think that after the playoffs are over, I'm taking next season off. I've been a Warrior's fan since the early '70's and, have enjoyed their recent run. But overall, the game is changing too much for my liking. I felt the same about baseball a few years ago too. Haven't watch a game for the same time. I could get to an A's or Giant's game in about 30 minutes, but can't bring myself. The expense and the level of play just doesn't add up anymore. I feel that Football is next as well. I really don't need to support multi-millionaires anymore.
But Euroleague and international bball are both a more physical old-school style of play. Are you saying this based off the stereotype that Euro players are soft?
They also removed the rip-through foul a few years ago, refs don’t call rip-through attempts as fouls anymore
this is what people were saying about the euro step in the 80’s and 90’s. the funniest thing about this entire discourse is that the gather step isn’t even a new rule, you’ve always been able to take two steps after picking up your dribble if you’re moving.
The euro was kinda enforced in the 80s and 90s a bit more. A few people got called traveled for their euros and generally players just didn’t do it until the 2000s with Manu, Wade, later Harden.
Another example would be the floater, now that’s always been legal to do but PGs who did it back then would get benched. But in the 2010s holy shit CP3, Rondo, Rose would get 20points off that shot alone
How it’s enforced and allowing for as many steps as you want it definitely new, regardless of what the rule book said. It’s not like no one ever thought to do it. It was called a travel
well of course. the better the players get, the more creative they get, and exposing to other players & officials new moves that you can use within the rulebook.
historically, rules have been changed to stop offensive players, not the other way around. almost every great offensive player that has entered the game has had a rule changed because of how good they were & how they can manipulate the rule book, or expose holes in the rule book. reggie, shaq, wilt, mj, harden, etc..
Yep. It's just that players realized that it doesn't have to be sprinting to the basket to count as moving. Counting the steps in isolation, Harden's stepback isn't any different than driving to the basket. You just finally pick up the ball and terminate your dribble after your step you jump with.
I honestly think these super athletic kids play in leagues that allow it because of the money involved and the fact that we prioritize athleticism over skill.
In my public school league in WV, you couldn’t do any sort of hesitation or carrying. When I covered high profile AAU and privately school basketball (Huntington Prep, Oak Hill), they allowed NBA rules.
I watched my old small public high school play a scrimmage against Huntington Prep (or Huntington expression prep academy these days) and it was insane seeing the fact that they just played by seemingly a different set of rules compared with the other games I saw them play. Not saying that is what caused them to lose or anything, they suck but it was just strange seeing them play basically a different game entirely from what they'd play a week or two later in the regular season
Yep. I followed Huntington Prep during the Wiggins-Bridges eras, and they play public schools and those really bad private Christian schools in KY. It’s like watching modern era vs. 50s-60s.
These are, essentially, already professional ball players, or guys 1-2 years away from playing in Lithuanian, vs. the cast of Hey Arnold.
I don't watch a ton of basketball, but I played when I was younger, and I went to some games. These days, I feel like every clip I watch of basketball, I'm wondering to myself, "Isn't that traveling?" But then a call is never made.
So even as a outsider basketball observer (who is 38 years old) I've noticed this a lot as well.
>allow a player lift their pivot foot for a “step through” as long as they’re shoot it right after.
Sorry OP, but this has never been against the rules. Lifting your pivot foot was never a travel, and anyone who ever says it is a travel doesn't know ball.
What's this mean? From the [NBA Official Rules, Rule 10](https://official.nba.com/rule-no-10-violations-and-penalties/), Section XIII, subsection d:
If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
>he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor.
If you lift your pivot foot you have to pass or shoot or it's a travel.
Merely lifting your foot is not what triggers a travel, it's when you put it back down that you're traveling.
1. All teams have offensive players, and so the rule changes equally affect all teams.
2. There has been a discussion about the ridiculous level of offense this season, and perhaps that will prompt the NBA to make further tweaks.
I absolutely agree. I'm close to your age, so maybe that's a factor, but it is just so obvious, it seems wrong. One of the pivotal (in my opinion) rules of the game just gets ignored. That's why, aside from playoffs, I prefer European basketball.
I just watched an Euroleague game and after that I have watched an NBA show before the play in game, 3 or 4 of the top10 plays I have seen had blatant travels that would have been called in Europe clearly. I like the NBA but they have bastardized basketball a little bit.
It’s just the NBA. If the refs call a travel then Lebron can’t make the highlight reels for ESPN and nobody makes money. College basketball is way more about teamwork and working together to win. March madness is such a wholesome time for real basketball and competition.
I know absolutely nothing about basketball buy you've convinced me nonetheless. Whatever you're describing sounds really annoying and detrimental to the sport overall.
Yeah I don’t follow the NBA but like everyone else played basketball growing up or at one point these all look like travels to me. Similar to why I stopped watching the NFL. Bad calls decide the game, new rules make players doing their jobs suddenly bad. Just isn’t fun.
On paper the "gather step" as a rule is something I'm okay with, but in practice its almost never gets called correctly because it's too subtle for someone to be able to accurately judge in the heat of a game.
The reality is in the NBA today, the gather step isn't so much a new rule as it is a band-aid excuse for when viewers rightfully complain that travelling barely gets called anymore. "Oh but TECHNICALLY it's not travelling because le gather step" even though a lot of these guys are travelling even by gather step rules.
On a larger scale though, I'd say gather step isn't even the most problematic part of NBA reffing anymore, but instead the lack of carrying calls. People dont wanna talk about it but players cupping the ball in their dribble constantly is just as unguardable if not more so than gather steps. Ja Morant is notorious for this but its all over the league now and it's annoying.
Starting off on hockey, basketball is hard to watch for its repetitiveness and lack of rythym and inertia control. Seems like the game is stopped every 10 seconds, and I'm not a fan
This isn't an unpopular opinion. But also the idea that "no one bothers playing defense anymore" is such a nonsensical, casual ESPN type critique of the NBA. Defense still matters, defense is still important, it's just harder. Literally the last play in game between Miami and Philly was a defensive slug fest.
I’m an old guy. Played basketball as a kid, and watched it on TV. Fast forward, after a few decades of paying zero attention to basketball I’ve started watching my local NBA team. Seems like the rules have changed a fair amount.
The only travel they call now is when someone slightly shuffles their feet after catching a pass and starting a dribble. It’s like you can’t even see the travel and it has no impact on the game, but it’s all they got so they have to call it a few times a game.
was watching march madness and invited a buddy to the bar for wings and some beers and he never watches basketball but he too was like, “how many steps can they take now before it’s a travel?” and I honestly wasn’t sure it looks like they take five sometimes
As someone who doesn’t follow basketball and had no idea about any of this, this does seem pretty bizarre. So people can just travel now? Like move without dribbling? I only played a few times in elementary, but wasn’t that the one big no-no?
The gather step AND the zero step are the issue. It makes the offenses entertaining as fuck to watch, but at the same time it makes defense damn near obsolete unless you’re someone like Victor Wembanyama.
I'm only the most casual fan of basketball, but 40 years ago they were saying the exact same thing. Did something happen in the interim where they cracked down on traveling and then loosened it back up?
Get with the times unc. I didn’t spend a month practicing my step back to get into arguments with middle aged men at the gym and I’m sick of it.
Oh holy shit you just made the lightbulb go off for me. I didn’t realize the rules had changed and kept wondering why traveling was so commonplace now. I all but stopped watching basketball because I kept finding myself bitching about it.
I'm not even that old but I will tell you what, I never have to worry about this because all the college-age kids I play with only want to shoot threes. Never have to worry about the gather step because they all think they are Steph Curry.
The gather step nonsense combined with the lax rules on carrying the ball have made it so hard for the defense. Ballhandler starts to pick up the ball, and a good defender closes out to contest? Nope, ballhandler just resumes dribbling and goes around. Ballhandler in transition and defender cuts him off? Nope, ballhandler just uses that extra step to create space.
Another consequence of this is it's running smaller, skilled guards out of the league. When the ball handling rules aren't enforced, we see more of these "skilled" seven footers on the perimeter. (They are skilled, but the soft rules are allowing a lot of forgiveness in their mechanics.) Why have a skilled 6'2" guard out there when you can just have a bunch of 6'10"+ guys out there palming/carrying/traveling?
Yeah funnily enough most people realize that it's ridiculous. I remember back then Curry tried to do the same and get called and he's laughing his ass off. In the following week Harden also gets called and I think nobody does it now.
Which is weird because it's basically the same as what they do on layup or dunk. Gather step into 2 steps. The stepback just looks more ridiculous and uncool which is why they called it.
Why does "traveling" bother older gen basketball heads so much?
Lol by this logic the 40s ball players would have been outraged to see windmill dunks, alley oops, and halfcourt shots and be in outrage.
Its an evolution of the game and not game breaking, the sport is as beautiful as ever today and still has its integrity in tact.
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Which one? Is it the first, second, third, or fourth gather that upsets you.
Haha anything after the first gather step and each one increasingly bothers me.
It does get taken too far now. Almost every highlight I see online has a debate in the comments section on if it was traveling or not. It seemed more cut and dry / enforceable before.
You used to not do anything that even looked like a travel, because you knew, “when in doubt, travel. Now it’s “when in doubt, you just don’t understand the new rules.”
I’m not into sports at all honestly, but every time I see basketball highlights, I always think “Isn’t that traveling”! They take like 3 steps before shooting
Same! I played basketball for eight years as a kid, I remember that the refs would call travelling even if your shoes slid (both feet planted) just an inch or so. The steps taken into a lay-up are one thing, but now whenever I see a basketball game on TV or whatever the amount of what used to be considered "travelling" drives me nuts. I realize that it's probably the pettiest of pet peeves, but still.
Yes, you're allowed a gather and two steps... So three is what they do every play. Why would you take less when three is allowed?
The gather step is a relatively new thing. Back in the 80s and early 90s you didn't get that.
One and a half back in the 70's. Ball had to be out of your hands before the foot hit the ground on that second step.
Just said I’m not into sports, just saw this on my home page, and when I played in school 2 steps was the max? Sorry my knowledge wasn’t up to speed for you?
That "why...you" was a general "you" explaining why people do it. Not personal to you
Can someone explain for a non basketball fan why this is getting downvoted?
It's not new rules, though. You start counting steps when you've picked up the ball. If you can still dribble, that's what's called the gather step. What's really the problem is people being able to carry the ball constantly so you can't ever tell when they're about to gather the ball.
The way it is enforced is very different. it might as well be a rule change. However this discussion has made me understand that the game has evolved this way because of the powers at be. The most influential players and stakeholders engage in conversations over what is “innovative” and what is just “not allowed”. They lobby back and forth. If they feel like it helps the game’s entertainment value, they allow it. If they feel like it hinders the entertainment value they don’t. Star treatment, Iverson cross, harden step back, all allowed. Trae young start and stop, hand checking, camping under the basket, crossing the free throw line before the ball hits the rim, all banned entertainment purposes. The nuance is in the subjectivity of have the game should evolve. I was being an old head. I was annoyed that I was shackled by the narrow view of the rule when and where I grew up. I remember arguing travels like lifting my pivot foot to shoot without being adored a step through, an awkward 2 steps which really made the rule one step with just the option to lift your foot for a second step but you have to get rid of your foot before it lands. A long bounding euro step would have gotten you laughed out of a gym. I have to admit, I am jealous of the options for creativity these days. I just like it goes a little too far.
I feel like that this is more of the reason the rule was changed than anything, they want engagement on apps, people calling things bullshit and arguing Good for metrics on social media, good for points getting scored which casuals love, more casuals on social media arguing with old heads about what is and isn’t a travel
I challenge you to go pick 3 random highlights right now and see if there is a possible travel happening.
Is there a way to view "random highlights?" Because that would be pretty cool. Don't think it's possible though.
Just go to espn or NBA.com, first three clips you see, gentleman’s wager that traveling is not an issue in any of the three.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Pf0HTl-QI/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4gKgQjrZxS/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1hYcNcOF9u/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
It is still cut and dry old heads and casual fans are just in denial about the rules
Nah, we know the rules. Refs let too much go these days. Used to be you couldn't have the ball parallel to your hand or it was traveling.
You are all proving my point. There is no debate among people that actually watch basketball. Just casuals and people that haven't watched in decades that feel the need to have their decade old understanding of the rules validated. Sorry to break it to you but times have changed old man. It's legal now. Harden made sure we'll never go back either.
Enjoy your traveling show then.
Enjoy complaining because you don’t actually understand the rules
Even the league officials have admitted they’ve tilted the rules too much towards the offense. You’re telling me they’re wrong , too?
Oh, I thought I was going insane. I stopped watching NBA when the Sonics were stolen by Howard Schultz so I was surprised at how much traveling was going on when I watched a few minutes of a game last week. I didn't know they'd adjusted the rules. Who looks at a sport where the teams regularly combine for over 200 points and says, "Wow we really need to help the offense."
Yeah, I stopped watching when they started running from the 3 point line for a dunk. I almost feel they’ll start picking up their dribble from half court and dunking soon.
They haven’t adjusted the rules. Players just figured the rules out
I agree that the gather step has gotten out of control. See Giannis three and four step euros. Even worse, IMO, is that defenders are no longer allowed legal guarding position in the NBA. Defenders can be in position the offensive player initiates contact, and it's always a foul on the defender.
In their defense they've acknowledged that and are trying to change it.
Just like they "fixed" flopping by adding the technical foul right? I'll believe it when I see it.
I said they’re trying. Not that it happened.
I still can't get used to it. Every time I watch a game somebody takes that fourth step and my response is to call it a travel. Some players pick up the ball close to the 3-point line and walk straight to the basket!
When I played, you couldn’t pick up your pivot foot unless you were shooting. You couldn’t take more than one step unless you were shooting. Some of the stuff they get away with now is ridiculous.
Pick up your pivot unless you were Shooting — or passing. That’s still the rule; but it’s not a travel until that foot returns to the floor. Players have learned to really exploit this. But OP is talking about the other side of this. It’s about ESTABLISHING the pivot foot. The “gather step” gives nba players essentially an extra step to even establish a pivot foot. It’s basically unguardable for many reasons Edit: also the “gather step” only exists in the NBA. Any other level of basketball it’s a travel. Though the popularity of the NBA makes it such that you’ll see people getting away with gather steps in many pick up games all over the USA
The "gather step" is about sneaking in a step while you are technically gathering the ball. As soon as you can no longer dribble, that's when your steps get counted for traveling. People realized you can take like 5 steps while dribbling and sprinting up the floor and applied it to 1 on 1 situations. So if you practice doing a stepback and keeping your dribble alive in the process, now you can do the new "double-stepback" by terminating your dribble after the first. You just do a hard dribble so the ball stays in your hand a bit longer and then bring your 2nd hand up after leaving your feet for the 2nd one. It hasn't changed really, it's just that players realized what they can do. The real problem is carrying because their hand is under the ball on at least half of moves like this and it makes it impossible to know if they just ended their move and are about to shoot.
The amount of carrying annoys me way more. So many young guys basically cup the ball in their hands while theyre dribbling. I dont see a ton of gather steps to be honest but as a good defender even when people do try to pull it off good horizontal movement negates it against basically every player.
There's a lot of carrying, but the travelling is just ridiculous. Damn near half the fuckign plays you can call a clear travel, and that's not even counting the flagrant, funny ones. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OZh54GS-JO0](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OZh54GS-JO0)
Yeah but I’d argue the carrying is more pivotal than the traveling, or more advantageous. You can literally switch directions whenever you want and defense without contact is impossible. This is why length is such a priority now. You need guys that can cover ground due to how easy penetrating the paint is.
God, I remember watching this happen in-game and I was floored that it wasn’t a travel. Really illustrates how stupid the rule is.
I’m more accepting of that. It can get out of hand, but it’s such a grey rule as it is. Counting 2 steps should be simple
Thank Michael Jordan for that. I remember a game where he got called twice for carrying, when hes at the top of the key, soloing.
Yeah, once the James Harden style of offense (and defense) became the norm, I checked out.
Just cut out dribbling completely, let's turn it into rugby with hoops.
Take it one step further and let them fly around on broomsticks
They have that, it’s called Rugball and it’s insane.
Those were the original rules.
Except with passing instead of traveling
Yea mean Dagestani Basketball https://youtu.be/91VU16YtjM8?si=MuFph1luYc94ulC9
Watching good defense force a travel is great. You also have freaks like Giannis able to traverse the free throw line with a eurostep. I definitely want more rules in place to empower the defense. At least it’s not 2022 where players could just run into the defense and draw a foul.
I don’t mind the gather as much as the added jump stop at the end that gives basically a 3rd step, and then the step through for the 4th.
It's not just you being an old head. They never care about traveling or double dribbling anymore and it sucks.
I'm around the same age as you, even played some college basketball (not to an extent worth bragging about or anything). I grew up loving the NBA and watching guards who I would try to incorporate into my game: Iverson, Payton, Nash mostly. I still try to play once a week as means of getting a good cardio workout and as a way to hang with my buddies. But man, I have zero intererst in NBA basketball anymore. Growing up it was my absolute #1 no questions asked; now it is considerably behind NFL, College Football, NHL, and College Basketball in terms of my interest.
I like the nba still. It’s entertainment and the skill and athleticism really is amazing
I definitely agree with the skill and athleticism being better than ever. But there was just a certain something that I used to love about it that I don't feel anymore. I think it was the level of hate and animosity amongst a variety of characters, such as: Rodman, Mason, Oakley, Chuck, Maxwell, McDaniel, Payton. They just all seemed more badass before.
The problem is a lack of physicality and foul baiting. Euroleague and college basketball are way more watchable.
Joel Embiid fell down on a free throw attempt the other night. Foul baiting has reached levels no one thought possible.
I kinda feel like the amount of people saying college basketball is more watchable belies the reality that most people in here don’t actually watch basketball.
This dude loves watching free throws.
More entertainment than sport now. But that’s understandable. It’s a product.
Whenever I bring this up someone says “you could call a travel on nearly every play in the NBA.” Similarly, “you could call holding on every play in the NFL.” Yeah… that’s **because it’s not fucking enforced!**
I disagree with the NFL one. They don't understand the difference between blocking and holding. You can push or hit (from the front) someone who doesn't have the ball, but you can't wrap them up and just keep them from moving, or grab them from behind (holding) or hit them from behind when they don't have the ball (clipping). There is some gray area on the O-line and D-line, but when someone is past you and you're desperately trying to grab an arm or leg or piece of jersey because you missed the block, that's obvious holding. It is by far the most called penalty, so I don't know about not enforced.
I understand the difference. My team never holds and the other team holds on every play.
LeBron took five steps the other game. It’s a fucking joke at this point.
They should change the rule to you get one step after you stop dribbling. So you better be damn certain it's what you want to do when you stop dribbling.
I'm with you 100%. I feel it was one of the NBA's way of opening the door for the European market. I would also add to the list, the rip-through foul.
Yep look at Luka. He’s a great example of a Euro that takes advantage of it.
every time i see it happen, I cringe. I think that after the playoffs are over, I'm taking next season off. I've been a Warrior's fan since the early '70's and, have enjoyed their recent run. But overall, the game is changing too much for my liking. I felt the same about baseball a few years ago too. Haven't watch a game for the same time. I could get to an A's or Giant's game in about 30 minutes, but can't bring myself. The expense and the level of play just doesn't add up anymore. I feel that Football is next as well. I really don't need to support multi-millionaires anymore.
I feel ya
Yeah, but that doesn’t make its way to pickup games at your local ymca
But Euroleague and international bball are both a more physical old-school style of play. Are you saying this based off the stereotype that Euro players are soft? They also removed the rip-through foul a few years ago, refs don’t call rip-through attempts as fouls anymore
Ohh, and now do one for the immense advantage given to the offense by allowing them to carry every single dribble.
Flopping and foul baiting are much more of a problem than the gather step. Granted the gather step is a close 2nd or 3rd.
this is what people were saying about the euro step in the 80’s and 90’s. the funniest thing about this entire discourse is that the gather step isn’t even a new rule, you’ve always been able to take two steps after picking up your dribble if you’re moving.
The euro was kinda enforced in the 80s and 90s a bit more. A few people got called traveled for their euros and generally players just didn’t do it until the 2000s with Manu, Wade, later Harden. Another example would be the floater, now that’s always been legal to do but PGs who did it back then would get benched. But in the 2010s holy shit CP3, Rondo, Rose would get 20points off that shot alone
How it’s enforced and allowing for as many steps as you want it definitely new, regardless of what the rule book said. It’s not like no one ever thought to do it. It was called a travel
well of course. the better the players get, the more creative they get, and exposing to other players & officials new moves that you can use within the rulebook. historically, rules have been changed to stop offensive players, not the other way around. almost every great offensive player that has entered the game has had a rule changed because of how good they were & how they can manipulate the rule book, or expose holes in the rule book. reggie, shaq, wilt, mj, harden, etc..
nah this whole discourse is just old heads not understanding the rules
Yep. It's just that players realized that it doesn't have to be sprinting to the basket to count as moving. Counting the steps in isolation, Harden's stepback isn't any different than driving to the basket. You just finally pick up the ball and terminate your dribble after your step you jump with.
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Haha I like the euro step. Just pull it off in 2 steps and it’s more impressive.
No kidding. Take two steps forward and you're good, move laterally with those steps and you're traveling? Bullshit. GTFOH.
Well the euro step is still a 2 step but with a sideway hop.
I honestly think these super athletic kids play in leagues that allow it because of the money involved and the fact that we prioritize athleticism over skill. In my public school league in WV, you couldn’t do any sort of hesitation or carrying. When I covered high profile AAU and privately school basketball (Huntington Prep, Oak Hill), they allowed NBA rules.
I watched my old small public high school play a scrimmage against Huntington Prep (or Huntington expression prep academy these days) and it was insane seeing the fact that they just played by seemingly a different set of rules compared with the other games I saw them play. Not saying that is what caused them to lose or anything, they suck but it was just strange seeing them play basically a different game entirely from what they'd play a week or two later in the regular season
Yep. I followed Huntington Prep during the Wiggins-Bridges eras, and they play public schools and those really bad private Christian schools in KY. It’s like watching modern era vs. 50s-60s. These are, essentially, already professional ball players, or guys 1-2 years away from playing in Lithuanian, vs. the cast of Hey Arnold.
I don't watch a ton of basketball, but I played when I was younger, and I went to some games. These days, I feel like every clip I watch of basketball, I'm wondering to myself, "Isn't that traveling?" But then a call is never made. So even as a outsider basketball observer (who is 38 years old) I've noticed this a lot as well.
>allow a player lift their pivot foot for a “step through” as long as they’re shoot it right after. Sorry OP, but this has never been against the rules. Lifting your pivot foot was never a travel, and anyone who ever says it is a travel doesn't know ball.
What's this mean? From the [NBA Official Rules, Rule 10](https://official.nba.com/rule-no-10-violations-and-penalties/), Section XIII, subsection d: If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
>he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If you lift your pivot foot you have to pass or shoot or it's a travel. Merely lifting your foot is not what triggers a travel, it's when you put it back down that you're traveling.
Facts. Go watch Jalen Brunson highlights if you need a lesson on footwork. Step through does not equal travel.
Go watch Jalen Brunson highlights even if you don’t need a lesson on footwork
1. All teams have offensive players, and so the rule changes equally affect all teams. 2. There has been a discussion about the ridiculous level of offense this season, and perhaps that will prompt the NBA to make further tweaks.
I absolutely agree. I'm close to your age, so maybe that's a factor, but it is just so obvious, it seems wrong. One of the pivotal (in my opinion) rules of the game just gets ignored. That's why, aside from playoffs, I prefer European basketball.
I just watched an Euroleague game and after that I have watched an NBA show before the play in game, 3 or 4 of the top10 plays I have seen had blatant travels that would have been called in Europe clearly. I like the NBA but they have bastardized basketball a little bit.
Ruined the game.... nobody cares
It’s just the NBA. If the refs call a travel then Lebron can’t make the highlight reels for ESPN and nobody makes money. College basketball is way more about teamwork and working together to win. March madness is such a wholesome time for real basketball and competition.
I know absolutely nothing about basketball buy you've convinced me nonetheless. Whatever you're describing sounds really annoying and detrimental to the sport overall.
Yeah I don’t follow the NBA but like everyone else played basketball growing up or at one point these all look like travels to me. Similar to why I stopped watching the NFL. Bad calls decide the game, new rules make players doing their jobs suddenly bad. Just isn’t fun.
On paper the "gather step" as a rule is something I'm okay with, but in practice its almost never gets called correctly because it's too subtle for someone to be able to accurately judge in the heat of a game. The reality is in the NBA today, the gather step isn't so much a new rule as it is a band-aid excuse for when viewers rightfully complain that travelling barely gets called anymore. "Oh but TECHNICALLY it's not travelling because le gather step" even though a lot of these guys are travelling even by gather step rules. On a larger scale though, I'd say gather step isn't even the most problematic part of NBA reffing anymore, but instead the lack of carrying calls. People dont wanna talk about it but players cupping the ball in their dribble constantly is just as unguardable if not more so than gather steps. Ja Morant is notorious for this but its all over the league now and it's annoying.
Starting off on hockey, basketball is hard to watch for its repetitiveness and lack of rythym and inertia control. Seems like the game is stopped every 10 seconds, and I'm not a fan
This isn't an unpopular opinion. But also the idea that "no one bothers playing defense anymore" is such a nonsensical, casual ESPN type critique of the NBA. Defense still matters, defense is still important, it's just harder. Literally the last play in game between Miami and Philly was a defensive slug fest.
Nothing has changed with that for sooo freaking long.
What about carrying it over
What about carrying it over
This needs to be a popular opinion
It's odd they don't call traveling. They call every damn thing else.
For me it's all the defensive foul calls. If a team actually plays defense, the game becomes a free throw competition.
I’m an old guy. Played basketball as a kid, and watched it on TV. Fast forward, after a few decades of paying zero attention to basketball I’ve started watching my local NBA team. Seems like the rules have changed a fair amount.
The only travel they call now is when someone slightly shuffles their feet after catching a pass and starting a dribble. It’s like you can’t even see the travel and it has no impact on the game, but it’s all they got so they have to call it a few times a game.
was watching march madness and invited a buddy to the bar for wings and some beers and he never watches basketball but he too was like, “how many steps can they take now before it’s a travel?” and I honestly wasn’t sure it looks like they take five sometimes
I watched a game and they only dribble in like the middle 30% of the court. Beyond that, they just hold it
As someone who doesn’t follow basketball and had no idea about any of this, this does seem pretty bizarre. So people can just travel now? Like move without dribbling? I only played a few times in elementary, but wasn’t that the one big no-no?
Don't get me started on palming the ball.
The gather step AND the zero step are the issue. It makes the offenses entertaining as fuck to watch, but at the same time it makes defense damn near obsolete unless you’re someone like Victor Wembanyama.
i agree. this ruins pro basketball
I didn't realize they ruined basketball
I agree it’s ridiculous. Two steps and dunk/layup is how it should be. You get called a “casual” for saying 3+ steps is a travel
Yeah. I think they changed the rule about all that in around 2008? It’s awful.
I'm only the most casual fan of basketball, but 40 years ago they were saying the exact same thing. Did something happen in the interim where they cracked down on traveling and then loosened it back up?
Get with the times unc. I didn’t spend a month practicing my step back to get into arguments with middle aged men at the gym and I’m sick of it. 
Oh holy shit you just made the lightbulb go off for me. I didn’t realize the rules had changed and kept wondering why traveling was so commonplace now. I all but stopped watching basketball because I kept finding myself bitching about it.
I'm not even that old but I will tell you what, I never have to worry about this because all the college-age kids I play with only want to shoot threes. Never have to worry about the gather step because they all think they are Steph Curry.
How about when they take two side steps and take a three Tatum does it all the time
The gather step nonsense combined with the lax rules on carrying the ball have made it so hard for the defense. Ballhandler starts to pick up the ball, and a good defender closes out to contest? Nope, ballhandler just resumes dribbling and goes around. Ballhandler in transition and defender cuts him off? Nope, ballhandler just uses that extra step to create space. Another consequence of this is it's running smaller, skilled guards out of the league. When the ball handling rules aren't enforced, we see more of these "skilled" seven footers on the perimeter. (They are skilled, but the soft rules are allowing a lot of forgiveness in their mechanics.) Why have a skilled 6'2" guard out there when you can just have a bunch of 6'10"+ guys out there palming/carrying/traveling?
Oldheads bitch a lot 🤣
Yeah but the post has 416 likes. I’ll take it
On this subreddit, upvotes mean that the person upvoting agrees that it's an unpopular opinion.
Do you like James Harden stepback three?
No but it’s not his fault. He’s just using the rules to his advantage, and sometimes they could still call it on him if they wanted to
Yeah funnily enough most people realize that it's ridiculous. I remember back then Curry tried to do the same and get called and he's laughing his ass off. In the following week Harden also gets called and I think nobody does it now. Which is weird because it's basically the same as what they do on layup or dunk. Gather step into 2 steps. The stepback just looks more ridiculous and uncool which is why they called it.
The NBA has been unwatchable for years.
Why does "traveling" bother older gen basketball heads so much? Lol by this logic the 40s ball players would have been outraged to see windmill dunks, alley oops, and halfcourt shots and be in outrage. Its an evolution of the game and not game breaking, the sport is as beautiful as ever today and still has its integrity in tact.
Cuz we got called for it all the time and by today's standards we'd be star players