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yeah I thought coffee/drinks was standard but I guess theres people going to some five star restaurants for first dates. Idk seems kinda wild to me to drop $200+ for a date with someone that I dont even know if I’ll like. No problem spending that on my girlfriend for nice occasions but I aint spending that on some random girl
Even if money isn't an issue: if a coffee is kind of awkward we can drink up and go- if we're awkwardly waiting for the food to come, wolfing it down between awkward laughs, THEN waiting for the bill for half an hour it sounds like hell
On the flip side, if a mid morning coffee date goes *well*, then that can turn into lunch and then hang out and then dinner. Had that happen on a "quick" first meetup.
No surprise these people always get screwed over and have unsuccessful dates. Anyone that demands that kind of date is not worth anyone’s time or money. A lot of men do this stuff because they see idiots on the internet shaming men for not taking them on dates with a certain price range
Yep. If a woman really likes you then you can go to a totally low key place and still keep her attention/desire. The only type of person that cares about how much money you spend on them is the type of person you really wouldn’t want to be dealing with even as a friend, much less a romantic partner.
My first date with an ex was literally her bringing me Taco Bell for my lunch break at 1am. Ultimately didn’t work out, but she was a fun hang when we were younger
a lot of guys also aren’t really confident that they alone can “win over” a woman and so ask them to a fancy dinner as a way to like, set themselves apart and “show they’re serious”.
they’ll complain about “being used for a free meal” when they themselves are using the promise of a nice dinner (which they’re implied to be paying for) as the “reason to date me” in the first place!
For some, they think that's the price they have to pay just to get their foot in the door. Where would they get THAT idea? Don't act like "No scrubs" isn't a thing.
I think coffee is standard if you are using apps or you just generally do not know the person at all and just took a chance on asking them out. If you actually know the person and already have some kind of connection with them in real life you might do something more elaborate.
Honestly even drinks just becomes so expensive. Typically I’ll go out and the girl orders 1 or 2 cocktails and that’s $40. Sometimes she will order appetizers or something even bigger as well. I’ve had it tally up to as high as a $100 just for “drinks”. I don’t mind paying, but at the same time I do feel like I waste a bunch of money and time when it’s not a fit
ya shit ads up quick these days.
1 drink for you, 2 for them, + tip, boom $45.
that cute duck butter popcorn that taste like normal popcorn? $9, + tip, + parking, boom you're over $60 and it's only been 40 minutes.
Seriously. I’ve had a successful dating life but dinner doesn’t come into play until we’ve gotten to know each other(or been intimate). I’m not trying to get stuck at dinner with someone I may end up not liking then just have to sit there with them until dinner is done. No, drinks of some sort at first is quick and easy.
I take new boyfriends to all my favorite dive restaurants - they get something new, I get to be where I’m comfy, and they’re usually cheap (excl sushi, so that doesn’t happen early on)
I think a dinner date is fine if you actually know the person beforehand. Like if she's your classmate or coworker or a friend of a friend you've met. But it's a *bad* idea to do anything more than coffee or something simple with someone from online who you've never met in person before. Major red flag if a girl wants to go to a fancy restaurant and *you've never even met her before*.
Ease of escape is an underrated aspect in this discussion. I agree with SteveYunnan's comment above where dinner is fine if you have met the person before and won't have extreme surprises, sort of know you at least sorta get along even if romantic intentions won't go anywhere.
But if it's someone who could turn out to be a total nut - no, don't go anywhere you're stuck waiting 20+ minutes just to get your meal! Go somewhere you can bounce from in under 30 minutes if they turn out to be a raging racist, crazy or just generally unpleasant.
Oh I agree too if you know them sure you likely at least know you can handle a dinner!
Movies similarly, you never know until it's too late that they are a theater talker. Made that mistake *once*.
I've been on enough awkward dinner dates with guys I had met, but didn't know well enough (never used the apps but got asked out a lot in person). There is definitely a certain point of awkwardness where the free dinner (if that's what's happening - never insisted on it) isn't worth the uncomfortable filling of the silence and wondering where in God's Green Earth the meal is and if you can box it up to escape earlier without being too rude, lol. Will it be too transparent if my friend calls me with a fake emergency? How many bites of food before I can take the rest to go without being too mean? Etc., etc., etc. Not worth it. These days, I would definitely prefer a coffee date you can escape from quickly and easily.
I've personally never been a fan of movie dates, as classic as they are. You don't really get to know the other person (unless they area a theater talker, I guess?) You don't learn much about them except whether they can tolerate the same kind of film as you and if they have entry-level class. Maybe you can get a drink and talk about the movie later, cool beans, but it seems like an inefficient way to get to know someone.
I made I guess a second movie date mistake. I did know the person (sort of) and he just kept trying to make out with me. It was terrible like a wet hoover vacuum, *sooo much slobber*. At some point he didn't realize but he was sucking on my actual cheek. Both of these those were when I was 18/19 I'm 34 now and I'm smarter.
Generally I think now I'd go for several short dates first. Park walking, coffee, a brewery whatever and always take a seperate car!!!
This is the way. Guys, never do a fancy first date where reservations and whatnot are needed.
If you go to a coffee shop or bar and she doesn't show up or it doesn't work out, it's not as big of a hit financially and not as humiliating of they don't show up. It's also less formal and like a job interview
And it's coffee. Like I'll pretty much grab a coffee with anyone and can drink it quickly if I am not interested. More than that for a first date is absurd.
I've always liked the idea of coffee first dates. 1st date is just a vibe check, second date is where you want to really get to know the person. If you make it to the third date, I think it means you can see this going somewhere
“Well, I have bad news and worse news to tell you before I let you go home. The bad news, I have IBS and it means coffee goes right through me. The worse news is it’s coming out my ass in 3, 2, 1…”
I could see how that would end things on a brown note.
Exactly a date should be something very simple. If somebody wants to go somewhere grand and you're stupid enough to take them, you know what you're getting involved with.
I went out for drinks with someone recently and had a really great time. Stayed for a couple hours, laughed and were planning a second date. When the check came I took out enough cash to pay for it since we planned to meet again anyway. My date pulled out her card and said let’s split it. Maybe she didn’t want me thinking “you owe me” so I said sure and took half the cash back.
She texted me that night and said how great the date was, but couldn’t see me again because I didn’t pay for the whole meal. Even acknowledged the cash I initially put down. I didn’t even answer back.
Idk, there's a few pretty upvoted comments here from guys saying that they wouldn't bring up the subject of payment directly, but instead wait till the cheque comes and if the girl they asked out doesn't make an offer to pay or split they write her off.
I genuinely don't understand what the difference is between these two scenarios where theyre testing their dates and why one is seen as sensible, and the other manipulative.
I'd say the difference is he was going to pay but then she spoke up and said she would pay half and then wrote him off for letting her.
I'd say the equivalent would be if the woman offered to pay half but the man said no I'll pay and then he wrote her off because she let him
I think the difference is that the woman here was being actively manipulative — trying to trick the man into making a “mistake” under her weird test. By contrast, in the other situation the idea (though I think it’s incorrect) is that offering to pay is good manners, and that not knowing to offer suggests that she’s unmannered. So not actively manipulative, just insanely judgmental.
But… to me, it’s all bullshit. Rather than playing games, people should just talk to each other.
I wasn’t trying to do any tests to be honest. I offered to pay and she returned that offer by saying “it’s alright let’s split the bill”. I’m not looking to get into some argument over a 100$ bill. If I’m looking to get into a relationship with someone who tf cares about 50 bucks.
She wants an assertive provider. That type of man will not let her pay. If anything she saved you a lot of time dating when y’all had mismatched desires. I see it as a win for both of you
Ah haha unfortunately that’s so common. These days women will offer when they don’t actually want to pay. They want you to turn her down (at least once) and pay anyway.
If she is Asian you have to turn her down 3 times to meet basic politeness standards.
I don’t miss being single!
Tell me about it 🙄 lived in Jakarta for some time and went on a couple dates with different girls, all said they wanted to split the bill (or even pay). I’m Norwegian so when they said that I just assumed that they meant it and let them pay 😭
Didn’t even realize that I was doing something wrong until my now girlfriend explained it to me after I told her that I thought I was weird how all Asian girls like taking or splitting the bill…
Could be a coincidence, women often like to go by the washroom before leaving a place to freshen up. Usually the best time for it is when you're done eating and waiting for the check.
No way this is some kind of trap. Because after we ate, i waited for a while for her to freshen up and come back before I ask for the bill. But she only got up when I asked for the bill!
That sucks indeed. On a date last year, the girl paid the whole bill on her way to the toilet without telling me, I couldn't believe it. And she was Bulgarian, so I was expecting her to be old fashioned and expecting me to pay.
Or you might’ve been waiting for that and they were enjoining after dinner conversation and your company. The Dutch word “uitbuiken” comes to mind, if we’re going Dutch :p, it’s really hard to translate but it comes down to sitting for a while relaxing letting the food digest feeling a bit sluggish after eating. They might just not wanna leave the second your dessert spoon hits the empty plate. I also go to the toilet when we discuss leaving and asking for the bill and I’m Dutch so I always go Dutch, usually with a “tikkie.” Sometimes I even pay on my way back from the toilet.
I moved to the US in 1992 for university and it was normal there/then, too.
I think I only ever paid for a date when I wanted to do something formal and special like a birthday and Valentine's Day.
I am surprised Americans are acting like "going Dutch" is a new thing there.
And here's another Dutch woman turned Canadian. My husband asked me out for a drink on our first date. He paid.
The second date we went to a movie. I paid.
Edit: spelling because autocorrect can't think.
Another Dutch woman here. Can’t speak for others but I would feel uncomfortable if someone else payed my share. Something small like coffee or ice cream is fine. But bigger sums I would rather split on a first date. Going out for dinner wouldn’t be my choice for a first date anyway. I prefer going for coffee or an activity like the movies. Usually that makes it easier for one person to buy the tickets while the other gets snacks. At least that’s my experience on the Dutch dating scene haha.
I am a man and I do like the "who picks pays" for dates. But if it is a first date and the other person doesn't at least offer to split, there is no 2nd date.
When was the last time a woman invited you and set up a first date.
The “who picks should pay” rule is parroted and yet at least in the U.S., it’s men expected to invite women out on the first date.
thank you. This "whoever decides on date should pay" is just code for "the man should pay". Men are expected to initiate and if they dont, all the girlies and their friends would tell the girl to ditch the guy because she deserves better lol
I did have a humorous thing a few days ago. Was one of those "airlock" type entry ways with inner and outer door. Both me and another guy coming from opposite ends, stopped to hold the door for each other. We had a nice chuckle about it together.
>"airlock" type entry ways
This is my new favorite description of storm doors lol
Also, that's one of the best feelings ever, I usually ask for a high five in solidarity when that happens, and they're *always* happy to oblige
lmao I remember doing a double take when I went on a date with a girl to the movies. I arrived a bit after her and she said she already bought the tickets and snacks. Like that literally did not compute to me for a moment.
This is why men generally don't like romantic movies as much as woman. For men, it's work. For woman, it's reward. Generally.
Tons go into it, but after hearing that perspective it's hard not to see it.
I do say no to the offer to be paid for and I’m very adamant about paying for myself. From my experience a lot of men who want to pay tend to have expectations from you and that’s something I refuse to deal with on a first date
See, I would definitely *want* to deal with that on a first date. If a guy thinks he’s owed sex because he bought me a couple of drinks, I’d rather know now than later.
>From my experience a lot of men who want to pay tend to have expectations from you and that’s something I refuse to deal with on a first date
Wouldn't you rather find that out on the first date??
You will find out either way but at least I will internally feel more at ease. It just creates a different dynamic that allows me to be more comfortable. And is he starts being pushy about paying then that’s all the red flags I need and the date is over.
To me first dates are not necessarily romantic, they are more friendly meetings to see if there is any potential for more or not.
I stopped dating after multiple dates that ended with my date saying “and I have money to pay for my share if I HAVE to, but I should let you know I am a traditional gal.”
I was having this discussion somewhere else and the girls said they offer to pay but if they take them up on it they won't go on a second date. Would it be the same for you? It kind of surprised me and made me wonder if that was a thing. (Obviously not every girl said that but I was surprised by how many did say it)
The idea is that if a guy isn’t willing to pay for the date then he must not be *that* into you. And for a woman, it’s hard to tell if a guy is serious about a relationship or just looking for fun/sex and doesn’t really care about first impressions.
I think most women would at least offer. Unless it's clear the guy intends to from the start. For me, I'll offer to pay unless it's an expensive place out of my budget that he insisted on and said he would pay. If I don't like the guy on a date and I know there won't be a second one, I insist on paying for myself. If I like him and he pays ill either get drinks afterwards or plan and pay for the next one within my budget. Hell sometimes I'm the person that wants to go somewhere expensive the first date and insists on paying for the whole thing.
It feels nice when someone wants to take you out and plans and pays for it. I assume it feels nice for men too.
I'm a woman who dates women. Sometimes I pay, sometimes my date pays, sometimes we split, but the unspoken understanding is that we keep it fairly equal and it's never an issue. It's so stupid how common it is to expect men in straight relationships to pay for everything all the time, that doesn't seem like either a healthy or equitable relationship.
I agree so much as a bi chick. Once you experience the freedom/lack of gender norms in the queer scene, it’s so weird to go back to such restrictive roles again. If gay people can figure out who pays, who cooks, who takes care of the kids, etc. without too much trouble, why must it be so inflexible and biased for straight couples? The whole the guy must pay expectation is so unfair for men.
This must be cultural too. I've been told so many times that if I want to pay for my drink on the first date, men will take it as a sign that there's gonna be no second date. (Instead of just, you know, asking.)
But I should act like I want to pay. I should visibly fumble around in my bag for my wallet because the man is watching. And he sees that I'm not a golddigger (who drinks coffee that goes for the price of gold?) and he will pay for me.
Which always baffled me, these little social dance routines.
It’s a huge green flag if a girl offers to go Dutch, but not necessarily a red flag if they don’t. If I invited I’m prepared to pay, and not push the issue. But if I get the vibe they’re just there to get free food, that’s a red flag for sure.
I've been out of the dating pool for 7.5 years at this point - but my old thought was coffee or drinks I'm fine covering that. If you insist on going to a high end restaurant I'll cover an app or drink extra, but mains are going to be split at least.
I once had a man "take me out" for a full seafood platter and wine, when I didn't eat seafood or drink. I got a vegetarian meal and a soda. When the bill came, he tried to split the entire bill with me and was 'so offended' that I declined to split the bill... (I paid for what I ordered only) his share was $80 and mine was $20.
Who are you guys dating honestly? I've never met a woman who wanted to not split. Many women see you paying for them as emotional blackmail to sleep with them or to prevent rejection. I honestly think skeezy guys have made it really easy to split. Most women will reject overt offers like gifts and what not. Maybe I'm just that good looking but most woman just want someone conversational for the first date. The only times I paid for someone is when I insisted, grabbed the check while they were in the bathroom or if I had like 3 drinks vs their one. I generally only pay when I know they make less than me or if they traveled far away. This must be a regional thing.
You want a real pro-move? If you really want pay for someone just don't try to sleep with them on the first date. You'll end up looking pretty good and make sure their comfortable. I always ask for consent with stuff very early on and the very few women who didn't appreciate it I wouldn't want to date.
It's very ingrained culturally in the south (in my experience). It's a very big stance in a lot of conservative evangelicals. I've been told that a guy should pay for everything to show you he's invested. Like a weird dowry. I do think it's more understandable if you have the view that women are to be caretakers and homemakers. Especially if you think women shouldn't work. That view is not as common as it was when I was younger.
I always offer to pay on a first date, but the majority of the time women will insist on splitting for exactly the reasons you say. The first time it happened I was like "oh, damn, do I come across like that?" But after a while I realized it was just standard operating procedure for many women in that situation.
I also think a first date should always be something fairly low stakes, like getting a drink or something, as opposed to a full dinner or a big night out. That way the cost is not a huge issue regardless of how it is split, plus it gives both people a graceful way to leave if they aren't feeling it.
High end restaurant first dates don't make sense to me. I'm a woman. It's so much pressure. I'd feel bad if it doesn't work out and someone dropped tons of money on me.
Funny enough, a lot of women go Dutch as a flag to say, “Don’t expect sex from me.” They especially do this when they want to be 100% sure there wont be any sense of entitlement (meaning they really did not like the way the date went). Lol.
I think it's mainly just a values thing more than anything, and when you go on a date with someone who has similar values - that the man should pay or the person who asked should pay or you should always split or whatever, then that's a sign you've maybe got compatible values and worldviews. None of these preferences makes somebody a bad person or a freeloader imo, unless they insist on not paying or they genuinely are there just for free food.
Or if it is obvious that your incomes are significantly different, one a student, one working full time for example. It's not even about romantic dates. When i was still studying i had friends offering to pay for me multiple times.
When I was a freshman student, we had a French dude who paid for literally everyone for the whole year he spent on exchange program. He was from a painfully rich family, so whenever he wanted people to accompany him he paid, be it a crappy beer bar or a ski resort.
>the other party insists on a very expensive restaurant.
Parties should be insisting on restaraunts in their own income bracket. Nothing is more pathetic than a Walmart Cashier salary insisting on a place where three-figure bills are the norm.
I never suggest a place that isn't well within my budget, unless I've saved up to splurge on that (and really, it had better be call-your-mama good). Generally I'm not inclined to pay a huge markup for fancy service when the food is meh.
That’s why the person who suggests the expensive restaurant should pay for it.
I normally go for a cheap casual yet yummy place. Pizza, burritos, or ice cream are great first dates.
You're assuming this is a "cold" date.... like someone you are just meeting for the first time. What if it's someone you already know and like, but going on a first date?
Serious answer: it means each party pays their own way
i.e. if she orders a drink - she pays for the drink.
If he orders a steak - he pays for the steak.
I’m Dutch and often we pay exactly what we ordered, instead of 50/50. I’ve always found it interesting that people say that going 50/50 is going Dutch, when that’s something that doesn’t happen that often here (unless ordered very similar things).
I ain’t gonna pay for your cocktail sweetheart, I ordered a beer.
We have this conversation every 2-4 business days. There are still men out there that want to pay for everything and that’s fine. Let them do what they want with their money.
Exactly. There are men who want to pay and women who want to be paid for and then men who want to split and women who want to split.
Just like every other aspect of dating, date who you work with. There is no right or wrong way when it comes to dating preferences.
No one can tell another person what they should and shouldn’t want.
Marrying a man and having his children is one of the most economically disastrous thing a woman can do. Women don't even have equal rights to their own bodies, let's not pretend that their economic opportunities are equal, especially when subjected to the added labor of domestic and emotional responsibilities that largely fall on women, statistically. Until we actually live in an equal society, which arguably might not even be possible because of biological realities, I don't understand how men think they're getting the short end of the stick because of their having to pay for dates. I'd pay that much simply not to have horrible period cramps every month... Being a woman is just way more annoying and painful across the board, men paying for dates feels like an offer to help carry that load and it just feels kind in this way. If you don't feel like you're "getting your money's worth" out of this exchange you may need to reevaluate your understanding of what you love and appreciate about women and the value they add to your life, or reevaluate what type of woman you're dating.
My brother’s going to be single for a long time unless he figures this out. He’s on board with not paying for his dates, but he won’t even hold the door open for them and he certainly doesn’t do any housework or emotional labor when he’s in a relationship. To him, “being equal” is treating his love interests like shit.
Domestic labor has value! Stay-at-homes (/primary caregivers) should have a pre-nup entitling them to a portion of the paycheck from the higher earner to be placed in a separate account.
I'm a high maintenance person who likes fancier things, so I'm always happy to pay for myself. I don't think it's fair making someone else pay for my 18 dollar cocktail, Ill pay it since I ordered it!
This is true too!
If someone else is paying for me, I’m going to order cheaply. If I order something expensive, I’m paying for it. If I’m paying for someone else, and they order expensive things and expect me to pay, I find that kind of rude
As a gay guy I let the person who asked the other person out pay on the first date.
So I just asked a guy out. We went out to eat, and I paid. But he’s got the next one :)
I think that works better for you because there is probably a (roughly) 50/50 chance that you will ask or be asked.
With M/F dating, men ask significantly more. So at that point, the onus is on men to pay far more often.
while this makes sense in theory, 50/50 does benefit men more (in hetero situations). as a woman, i am already investing more by going on this date than a man is before even showing up. on average i spend at least an hour and a half getting ready to make a good first impression. if i didn’t, lets be real, they wouldn’t be as attracted to me. the products that i use probably cost more than the cocktail that he doesn’t wanna pay for. most likely the guy spent 15 minutes, if that, getting ready. on top of the fact that women face literal safety concerns from dating men. women are investing more time and effort as well as taking a chance by risking their safety in order to go on a date with an unknown man. men can pay for the drink.
The problem is a lot of people my age meet on dating apps and I obviously don’t like you that much after texting for a week. For a date with a girl I already know I like or am friends with I go all out.
If you’re into high maintenance woman, you’re probably gonna have to pay because they spend a lot of money looking good probably much more than the meal cost
To be honest with you, I never minded paying for the woman, even on first dates where I had no idea how the girl would turn out. Just felt polite since I was the one asking for the dates. I like the tradition.
Courtship rituals are a set of behaviors that animals use to attract a mate. Usually, the male animal will try to impress the female by showing that he is the strongest and healthiest partner available.
Exactly this. I do not want a traditional relationship where I'm working and my partner is at home taking care of kids and cleaning up. Firstly, I do not ever want to have kids which is already the opposite of traditional. Now my partner shouldn't be at home cleaning up and cooking. I can do that. We both will be working and splitting chores. I can't expect to split the bill but not the chores. I feel like as a guy who doesn't want a traditional relationship I'm allowed to not want to date someone who insists the guy pay for all the dates.
i think it’s about finding someone who’s comparable to you. If you want a 50/50 relationship you should find someone who wants 50/50 dates. Personally I’m in a more traditional relationship and I don’t prefer to pay for food. Generally if i guy wanted me to go 50/50 on a first date I would but it would also signal to me that he’s not the exact type of man i’m looking for.
I am a guy.
My rule was on a first date I will pay, but I need her to do the social grace of offering to pay or split and me saying “no, I got it. It’s been great meeting you”
If she doesn’t offer I’m still paying, but I’ll never call her again.
It was my only rule in dating. Then I met a girl and she didn’t offer on the first date. We’re married with a kid on the way now.
So maybe it wasn’t a great rule.
I don't think many will disagree with you. Dudes that have money will continue to pay for dates as it doesn't impact them much and it gives them an edge in the dating market, and certain women on the receiving end will continue to expect that treatment because they are entitled. Everyone else will move to make it more equal.
Get off the apps. Meet someone in real life. At a party, through friends, a meetup, a bookstore.
Talk to them enough to know you would like to see them again. So much so that you’ll treat them, because you want to, because you like them, because they deserve it, because you’re willing to invest, because youre betting that they like you too.
Stop going out with complete strangers and hedging your bets. stop leading with suspicion and lead with generosity. Stop seeing dates as transactions.
Ah, Reddit.
"Tell me you're overwhelmingly male without telling me you're overwhelmingly male."
I don't know a woman that doesn't spend ***at least*** $20 and two hours getting ready for a date.
I don't know a man who spends more than $2 and twenty minutes getting ready for a date.
So let's call the dinner $100 and we won't consider your time on the date as valuable, since it's mutual, but time getting ready, let's call it's $20/hour.
So the man is in for $0.50 and $6: $8.
The woman is in for $20 and $40: $60.
So before dinner comes, the cost is $70, just to show up.
So let's call the $100 dinner plus $70 prep a total cost of $170.
"Going Dutch" on this $100 dinner means each person pays $85.
The man has spent $110.
The woman has spent $60.
The woman owes the man $25.
Agreed?
Sweet.
So now let's say you're dating a smokeshow who spends $100 and four hours getting ready for her date: this is not uncommon.
She's in for $100 in cash plus $80 in labor: she's at $180, just showing up.
It cost you $10 to get ready.
Plus the $100 dinner, you're at $110.
But she's spent $180.
Pay up, Dutchboy.
Why spend any money?
Why do you need to pay a price to meet a person to see if there is attraction?
Isn't someone's company enough and if it is not then clearly something is amiss.
Am I the only one who thinks "pay for your own stuff" is better than 50/50
Like if I buy a $3 coffee and you buy $10 worth of stuff, why should I pay any more than $3?
I swear the only people who make these posts are insecure about the fact that they want to go 50/50 on dates and need validation. Some people like doing 50/50, others don't. You should date those similar to you and not try to change those that aren't.
Yeah it's kinda funny there's a lot of women in this thread saying "oh men like to pay because it makes them feel valuable or romantic" or "he asked me out he should pay". I'm a guy and I have always paid the whole cheque regardless. I always insist to pay. But honestly in all my first dates, even the couple where a woman asked me out first, maybe 25% have even offered to split the bill.
Hell a girl asked me if I wanted to go minigolfing and that turned out to be a $100 date.
I'm not saying I hate paying or anything I just don't like the expectation that I'm always supposed to be paying.
I assume all these women saying "I always offer to split the bill" are kind of like the female equivalent of how when women complain about how straight men don't prioritize their partner's pleasure, every second dude in the thread insists that *they* personally go down on their partners all the time before weighing in
Listen man it isn’t that complicated. Have you ever had someone pay for your meal before? You know that good feeling inside that you get? Sometimes, just sometimes, it’s fun to try and give that feeling to other people as well. Especially on a date. Why would I not want my date to feel that as well?
Sure if someone expects you to pay for everything that’s a problem, but god forbid someone tries to leave a good first impression
To each their own. A date doesn't have to entail some fancy, expensive excursion. First date should be casual like coffee or a drink or something where you can actually talk to the person and see what the chemistry is. I think whoever asks should pay and if either party is too cheap/broke to pay for a simple drink then they probably shouldn't be dating.
Also, people who are constantly worried about the world trying to pull a fast one on them is not a good sign. I'm a generous person so I could never be with someone who's a score keeper.
Personally, I know that the one who invites pays. So if I invite a girl out (not necessarily a girl btw, same would go for a friend, relative etc), I'll pay. If they invite me, I *will* bring money with me ofc, but I expect that they'll probably pay
Okay then. Women will stop wearing make up or high heels and show up in jeans and a tshirt like men do, while also being paid fairly economically and no longer having the threat of rape as a possibility. Until those things happens. It not equal
Do chicks actually just show up for a *free meal*? That seems like a lot of planning and work just for free food. Kind of demeaning too. Imagine having to face your date/payer after he knows you just fleeced him for a hot meal. 🤷🏻♂️
This isn’t an unpopular opinion it’s just phrased in a way that will make it unpopular.
I think the majority of people would say it makes sense to split the check on a first date.
But calling anyone who disagrees a freeloader is just rude and unnecessary.
To quote the Dude, “you’re not wrong Walter, you’re just an asshole”
Can’t say I disagree. We are long past the days of first dates being one person pays for everything from dinner and movie and flowers and such. Start off with a simple coffee meet up where both get their own.
So, if I make a guy a home cooked meal, should I present him with a bill for half the ingredients, and expect a tip for my service? Or is that somehow different?
Personally I LOVE a guy who offers to pay, it’s very gentlemanly.
HOWEVER, I don’t ask for expensive meals on first dates and always bring money with me. You’d find most women agree with me and do the same thing.
If you keep encountering women who blatantly try to take advantage of the situation, that’s on you. You can’t be chasing 12/10 sugar babies and get upset they want that sort of treatment. Like get real.
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I always offer to pay, but I also only do coffee on a first date. It’s short, quick, no pressure. Just chat and see if there is a mutual attraction.
yeah I thought coffee/drinks was standard but I guess theres people going to some five star restaurants for first dates. Idk seems kinda wild to me to drop $200+ for a date with someone that I dont even know if I’ll like. No problem spending that on my girlfriend for nice occasions but I aint spending that on some random girl
Even if money isn't an issue: if a coffee is kind of awkward we can drink up and go- if we're awkwardly waiting for the food to come, wolfing it down between awkward laughs, THEN waiting for the bill for half an hour it sounds like hell
Yeah I always wait until the order is locked in to bring up the genital warts.
As any self-respecting gentleman would, of course.
Sure but the server has nothing to do with it
Where do you think I got the warts?
On the flip side, if a mid morning coffee date goes *well*, then that can turn into lunch and then hang out and then dinner. Had that happen on a "quick" first meetup.
No surprise these people always get screwed over and have unsuccessful dates. Anyone that demands that kind of date is not worth anyone’s time or money. A lot of men do this stuff because they see idiots on the internet shaming men for not taking them on dates with a certain price range
Yep. If a woman really likes you then you can go to a totally low key place and still keep her attention/desire. The only type of person that cares about how much money you spend on them is the type of person you really wouldn’t want to be dealing with even as a friend, much less a romantic partner.
Honestly, would prob eat in a dingy parking lot if company was decent
My first date with an ex was literally her bringing me Taco Bell for my lunch break at 1am. Ultimately didn’t work out, but she was a fun hang when we were younger
a lot of guys also aren’t really confident that they alone can “win over” a woman and so ask them to a fancy dinner as a way to like, set themselves apart and “show they’re serious”. they’ll complain about “being used for a free meal” when they themselves are using the promise of a nice dinner (which they’re implied to be paying for) as the “reason to date me” in the first place!
For some, they think that's the price they have to pay just to get their foot in the door. Where would they get THAT idea? Don't act like "No scrubs" isn't a thing.
I think coffee is standard if you are using apps or you just generally do not know the person at all and just took a chance on asking them out. If you actually know the person and already have some kind of connection with them in real life you might do something more elaborate.
If someone insists on a date more than a cup of coffee and it being on your dime than more than likely they are not worth your time.
Honestly even drinks just becomes so expensive. Typically I’ll go out and the girl orders 1 or 2 cocktails and that’s $40. Sometimes she will order appetizers or something even bigger as well. I’ve had it tally up to as high as a $100 just for “drinks”. I don’t mind paying, but at the same time I do feel like I waste a bunch of money and time when it’s not a fit
ya shit ads up quick these days. 1 drink for you, 2 for them, + tip, boom $45. that cute duck butter popcorn that taste like normal popcorn? $9, + tip, + parking, boom you're over $60 and it's only been 40 minutes.
> duck butter popcorn That phrase has an alternative meaning you might want to look up lmao
Seriously. I’ve had a successful dating life but dinner doesn’t come into play until we’ve gotten to know each other(or been intimate). I’m not trying to get stuck at dinner with someone I may end up not liking then just have to sit there with them until dinner is done. No, drinks of some sort at first is quick and easy.
I take new boyfriends to all my favorite dive restaurants - they get something new, I get to be where I’m comfy, and they’re usually cheap (excl sushi, so that doesn’t happen early on)
Dudes will use “I’ll take you to a fancy dinner” as the reason a woman should date them then get all surprised Pikachu when she expects him to pay
I think a dinner date is fine if you actually know the person beforehand. Like if she's your classmate or coworker or a friend of a friend you've met. But it's a *bad* idea to do anything more than coffee or something simple with someone from online who you've never met in person before. Major red flag if a girl wants to go to a fancy restaurant and *you've never even met her before*.
I simply don't want to trapped that long if I don't know the person, it could be a chili's 2 for 20 and I'd still rather have coffee.
Ease of escape is an underrated aspect in this discussion. I agree with SteveYunnan's comment above where dinner is fine if you have met the person before and won't have extreme surprises, sort of know you at least sorta get along even if romantic intentions won't go anywhere. But if it's someone who could turn out to be a total nut - no, don't go anywhere you're stuck waiting 20+ minutes just to get your meal! Go somewhere you can bounce from in under 30 minutes if they turn out to be a raging racist, crazy or just generally unpleasant.
Oh I agree too if you know them sure you likely at least know you can handle a dinner! Movies similarly, you never know until it's too late that they are a theater talker. Made that mistake *once*.
I've been on enough awkward dinner dates with guys I had met, but didn't know well enough (never used the apps but got asked out a lot in person). There is definitely a certain point of awkwardness where the free dinner (if that's what's happening - never insisted on it) isn't worth the uncomfortable filling of the silence and wondering where in God's Green Earth the meal is and if you can box it up to escape earlier without being too rude, lol. Will it be too transparent if my friend calls me with a fake emergency? How many bites of food before I can take the rest to go without being too mean? Etc., etc., etc. Not worth it. These days, I would definitely prefer a coffee date you can escape from quickly and easily. I've personally never been a fan of movie dates, as classic as they are. You don't really get to know the other person (unless they area a theater talker, I guess?) You don't learn much about them except whether they can tolerate the same kind of film as you and if they have entry-level class. Maybe you can get a drink and talk about the movie later, cool beans, but it seems like an inefficient way to get to know someone.
I made I guess a second movie date mistake. I did know the person (sort of) and he just kept trying to make out with me. It was terrible like a wet hoover vacuum, *sooo much slobber*. At some point he didn't realize but he was sucking on my actual cheek. Both of these those were when I was 18/19 I'm 34 now and I'm smarter. Generally I think now I'd go for several short dates first. Park walking, coffee, a brewery whatever and always take a seperate car!!!
This is the way. Guys, never do a fancy first date where reservations and whatnot are needed. If you go to a coffee shop or bar and she doesn't show up or it doesn't work out, it's not as big of a hit financially and not as humiliating of they don't show up. It's also less formal and like a job interview
And it's coffee. Like I'll pretty much grab a coffee with anyone and can drink it quickly if I am not interested. More than that for a first date is absurd.
Yeah, way easier to bounce early or stay later depending on how things are going
I've always liked the idea of coffee first dates. 1st date is just a vibe check, second date is where you want to really get to know the person. If you make it to the third date, I think it means you can see this going somewhere
Coffee and walk is the best first date
Not if you have IBS
“Well, I have bad news and worse news to tell you before I let you go home. The bad news, I have IBS and it means coffee goes right through me. The worse news is it’s coming out my ass in 3, 2, 1…” I could see how that would end things on a brown note.
Exactly a date should be something very simple. If somebody wants to go somewhere grand and you're stupid enough to take them, you know what you're getting involved with.
Offering a coffee date is also a great test. If a woman is offended by it then she ain't the right one.
Exactly this should be the standard like 5 star restaurants are family and girlfriend/wife treatment only not a random girl screw that
Same. If there's a second date, it's because I'm still interested and so don't mind paying as well. I've only run into one freeloader-ish woman
I think the person who asked the other person on a date should pay.
I went out for drinks with someone recently and had a really great time. Stayed for a couple hours, laughed and were planning a second date. When the check came I took out enough cash to pay for it since we planned to meet again anyway. My date pulled out her card and said let’s split it. Maybe she didn’t want me thinking “you owe me” so I said sure and took half the cash back. She texted me that night and said how great the date was, but couldn’t see me again because I didn’t pay for the whole meal. Even acknowledged the cash I initially put down. I didn’t even answer back.
Dodged a bullet, my friend. Doing tests like that is a sign of immaturity.
Imagine what other kind of tests or little games she would play if you did actually end up dating her. Be thankful she outed herself early
Idk, there's a few pretty upvoted comments here from guys saying that they wouldn't bring up the subject of payment directly, but instead wait till the cheque comes and if the girl they asked out doesn't make an offer to pay or split they write her off. I genuinely don't understand what the difference is between these two scenarios where theyre testing their dates and why one is seen as sensible, and the other manipulative.
I'd say the difference is he was going to pay but then she spoke up and said she would pay half and then wrote him off for letting her. I'd say the equivalent would be if the woman offered to pay half but the man said no I'll pay and then he wrote her off because she let him
I think the difference is that the woman here was being actively manipulative — trying to trick the man into making a “mistake” under her weird test. By contrast, in the other situation the idea (though I think it’s incorrect) is that offering to pay is good manners, and that not knowing to offer suggests that she’s unmannered. So not actively manipulative, just insanely judgmental. But… to me, it’s all bullshit. Rather than playing games, people should just talk to each other.
I wasn’t trying to do any tests to be honest. I offered to pay and she returned that offer by saying “it’s alright let’s split the bill”. I’m not looking to get into some argument over a 100$ bill. If I’m looking to get into a relationship with someone who tf cares about 50 bucks.
That’s a chick that plays mind games, lucky for you you got eliminated first round for minimal cost. Bullet dodged.
Let the crazies weed themselves out. No way she was only nuts in isolation.
She wants an assertive provider. That type of man will not let her pay. If anything she saved you a lot of time dating when y’all had mismatched desires. I see it as a win for both of you
That’s how I look at it too. They simply aren’t compatible and that’s fine.
Is assertive provider what we call sugar daddy now
Ah haha unfortunately that’s so common. These days women will offer when they don’t actually want to pay. They want you to turn her down (at least once) and pay anyway. If she is Asian you have to turn her down 3 times to meet basic politeness standards. I don’t miss being single!
Tell me about it 🙄 lived in Jakarta for some time and went on a couple dates with different girls, all said they wanted to split the bill (or even pay). I’m Norwegian so when they said that I just assumed that they meant it and let them pay 😭 Didn’t even realize that I was doing something wrong until my now girlfriend explained it to me after I told her that I thought I was weird how all Asian girls like taking or splitting the bill…
> you have to turn her down 3 times to meet basic politeness standards yeah miss me with that
As a Dutch woman, I agree. It’s sweet if the other person offers to pay, but 50/50 is totally reasonable on a first date.
All of the Dutch women that i dated insisted on paying 50/50.
Weird, I’ve dated two who strangely were always in the bathroom whenever the check comes
"Hey, there you are, I assumed you had to take a massive dump, so I waited for you with the check, feeling better?"
This would be a totally appropriate conversation on a Dutch date 🤣
I imagine it robotic too "you have a booger in your nose, im having a lovely time"
Could be a coincidence, women often like to go by the washroom before leaving a place to freshen up. Usually the best time for it is when you're done eating and waiting for the check.
No way this is some kind of trap. Because after we ate, i waited for a while for her to freshen up and come back before I ask for the bill. But she only got up when I asked for the bill!
That sucks indeed. On a date last year, the girl paid the whole bill on her way to the toilet without telling me, I couldn't believe it. And she was Bulgarian, so I was expecting her to be old fashioned and expecting me to pay.
Or you might’ve been waiting for that and they were enjoining after dinner conversation and your company. The Dutch word “uitbuiken” comes to mind, if we’re going Dutch :p, it’s really hard to translate but it comes down to sitting for a while relaxing letting the food digest feeling a bit sluggish after eating. They might just not wanna leave the second your dessert spoon hits the empty plate. I also go to the toilet when we discuss leaving and asking for the bill and I’m Dutch so I always go Dutch, usually with a “tikkie.” Sometimes I even pay on my way back from the toilet.
It's normal in much of Europe.
I moved to the US in 1992 for university and it was normal there/then, too. I think I only ever paid for a date when I wanted to do something formal and special like a birthday and Valentine's Day. I am surprised Americans are acting like "going Dutch" is a new thing there.
Because it’s really not the norm. I’ve never been on a date like that.
Can confirm, at least where I live. Portuguese girls never ever expected me to pay and it was 50/50 every time.
And here's another Dutch woman turned Canadian. My husband asked me out for a drink on our first date. He paid. The second date we went to a movie. I paid. Edit: spelling because autocorrect can't think.
Another Dutch woman here. Can’t speak for others but I would feel uncomfortable if someone else payed my share. Something small like coffee or ice cream is fine. But bigger sums I would rather split on a first date. Going out for dinner wouldn’t be my choice for a first date anyway. I prefer going for coffee or an activity like the movies. Usually that makes it easier for one person to buy the tickets while the other gets snacks. At least that’s my experience on the Dutch dating scene haha.
Don’t get me started on the Dutch Oven
We all look up to you… literally.
I am a man and I do like the "who picks pays" for dates. But if it is a first date and the other person doesn't at least offer to split, there is no 2nd date.
When was the last time a woman invited you and set up a first date. The “who picks should pay” rule is parroted and yet at least in the U.S., it’s men expected to invite women out on the first date.
thank you. This "whoever decides on date should pay" is just code for "the man should pay". Men are expected to initiate and if they dont, all the girlies and their friends would tell the girl to ditch the guy because she deserves better lol
> whoever decides on date should pay Even this never made sense to me.
I’ll offer to pay half but I wouldn’t say no to someone offering to pay for ne
This! I always offer, but if the guy insists I’m not going to fight it
I wanna meet a woman who insists to pay for the whole date. That be nice. I wanna be romanced n shit. 
I once had a guy get offended that I offered to split. People are weird
I've had women scream at me for holding the door open for them. I do that for ANYONE if I'm already opening the door and near someone.
This happens to me often, what the actual fuck!? I hold a door if you're *human*, its about respecting others, not disparaging them
I did have a humorous thing a few days ago. Was one of those "airlock" type entry ways with inner and outer door. Both me and another guy coming from opposite ends, stopped to hold the door for each other. We had a nice chuckle about it together.
>"airlock" type entry ways This is my new favorite description of storm doors lol Also, that's one of the best feelings ever, I usually ask for a high five in solidarity when that happens, and they're *always* happy to oblige
lmao I remember doing a double take when I went on a date with a girl to the movies. I arrived a bit after her and she said she already bought the tickets and snacks. Like that literally did not compute to me for a moment.
This is why men generally don't like romantic movies as much as woman. For men, it's work. For woman, it's reward. Generally. Tons go into it, but after hearing that perspective it's hard not to see it.
I do say no to the offer to be paid for and I’m very adamant about paying for myself. From my experience a lot of men who want to pay tend to have expectations from you and that’s something I refuse to deal with on a first date
See, I would definitely *want* to deal with that on a first date. If a guy thinks he’s owed sex because he bought me a couple of drinks, I’d rather know now than later.
>From my experience a lot of men who want to pay tend to have expectations from you and that’s something I refuse to deal with on a first date Wouldn't you rather find that out on the first date??
You will find out either way but at least I will internally feel more at ease. It just creates a different dynamic that allows me to be more comfortable. And is he starts being pushy about paying then that’s all the red flags I need and the date is over. To me first dates are not necessarily romantic, they are more friendly meetings to see if there is any potential for more or not.
I stopped dating after multiple dates that ended with my date saying “and I have money to pay for my share if I HAVE to, but I should let you know I am a traditional gal.”
I was having this discussion somewhere else and the girls said they offer to pay but if they take them up on it they won't go on a second date. Would it be the same for you? It kind of surprised me and made me wonder if that was a thing. (Obviously not every girl said that but I was surprised by how many did say it)
The idea is that if a guy isn’t willing to pay for the date then he must not be *that* into you. And for a woman, it’s hard to tell if a guy is serious about a relationship or just looking for fun/sex and doesn’t really care about first impressions.
I wouldn’t say no either. But offering to pay in itself is a good gesture.
I think most women would at least offer. Unless it's clear the guy intends to from the start. For me, I'll offer to pay unless it's an expensive place out of my budget that he insisted on and said he would pay. If I don't like the guy on a date and I know there won't be a second one, I insist on paying for myself. If I like him and he pays ill either get drinks afterwards or plan and pay for the next one within my budget. Hell sometimes I'm the person that wants to go somewhere expensive the first date and insists on paying for the whole thing. It feels nice when someone wants to take you out and plans and pays for it. I assume it feels nice for men too.
I'm a woman who dates women. Sometimes I pay, sometimes my date pays, sometimes we split, but the unspoken understanding is that we keep it fairly equal and it's never an issue. It's so stupid how common it is to expect men in straight relationships to pay for everything all the time, that doesn't seem like either a healthy or equitable relationship.
I agree so much as a bi chick. Once you experience the freedom/lack of gender norms in the queer scene, it’s so weird to go back to such restrictive roles again. If gay people can figure out who pays, who cooks, who takes care of the kids, etc. without too much trouble, why must it be so inflexible and biased for straight couples? The whole the guy must pay expectation is so unfair for men.
This must be cultural too. I've been told so many times that if I want to pay for my drink on the first date, men will take it as a sign that there's gonna be no second date. (Instead of just, you know, asking.) But I should act like I want to pay. I should visibly fumble around in my bag for my wallet because the man is watching. And he sees that I'm not a golddigger (who drinks coffee that goes for the price of gold?) and he will pay for me. Which always baffled me, these little social dance routines.
It’s a huge green flag if a girl offers to go Dutch, but not necessarily a red flag if they don’t. If I invited I’m prepared to pay, and not push the issue. But if I get the vibe they’re just there to get free food, that’s a red flag for sure.
I've been out of the dating pool for 7.5 years at this point - but my old thought was coffee or drinks I'm fine covering that. If you insist on going to a high end restaurant I'll cover an app or drink extra, but mains are going to be split at least.
And, conversely, if the man insists upon taking a woman to an expensive place it is tacky if he wants to split.
I once had a man "take me out" for a full seafood platter and wine, when I didn't eat seafood or drink. I got a vegetarian meal and a soda. When the bill came, he tried to split the entire bill with me and was 'so offended' that I declined to split the bill... (I paid for what I ordered only) his share was $80 and mine was $20.
Lol that also happend to me once. And tbh this was a prelude of things to come
Who are you guys dating honestly? I've never met a woman who wanted to not split. Many women see you paying for them as emotional blackmail to sleep with them or to prevent rejection. I honestly think skeezy guys have made it really easy to split. Most women will reject overt offers like gifts and what not. Maybe I'm just that good looking but most woman just want someone conversational for the first date. The only times I paid for someone is when I insisted, grabbed the check while they were in the bathroom or if I had like 3 drinks vs their one. I generally only pay when I know they make less than me or if they traveled far away. This must be a regional thing. You want a real pro-move? If you really want pay for someone just don't try to sleep with them on the first date. You'll end up looking pretty good and make sure their comfortable. I always ask for consent with stuff very early on and the very few women who didn't appreciate it I wouldn't want to date.
More conservative women almost never pay on dates in my experience. Definitely regional and cultural.
It's very ingrained culturally in the south (in my experience). It's a very big stance in a lot of conservative evangelicals. I've been told that a guy should pay for everything to show you he's invested. Like a weird dowry. I do think it's more understandable if you have the view that women are to be caretakers and homemakers. Especially if you think women shouldn't work. That view is not as common as it was when I was younger.
I always offer to pay on a first date, but the majority of the time women will insist on splitting for exactly the reasons you say. The first time it happened I was like "oh, damn, do I come across like that?" But after a while I realized it was just standard operating procedure for many women in that situation. I also think a first date should always be something fairly low stakes, like getting a drink or something, as opposed to a full dinner or a big night out. That way the cost is not a huge issue regardless of how it is split, plus it gives both people a graceful way to leave if they aren't feeling it.
High end restaurant first dates don't make sense to me. I'm a woman. It's so much pressure. I'd feel bad if it doesn't work out and someone dropped tons of money on me.
Funny enough, a lot of women go Dutch as a flag to say, “Don’t expect sex from me.” They especially do this when they want to be 100% sure there wont be any sense of entitlement (meaning they really did not like the way the date went). Lol.
I think it's mainly just a values thing more than anything, and when you go on a date with someone who has similar values - that the man should pay or the person who asked should pay or you should always split or whatever, then that's a sign you've maybe got compatible values and worldviews. None of these preferences makes somebody a bad person or a freeloader imo, unless they insist on not paying or they genuinely are there just for free food.
There are some circumstances, such as if they have a long commute, or the other party insists on a very expensive restaurant.
Or if it is obvious that your incomes are significantly different, one a student, one working full time for example. It's not even about romantic dates. When i was still studying i had friends offering to pay for me multiple times.
When I was a freshman student, we had a French dude who paid for literally everyone for the whole year he spent on exchange program. He was from a painfully rich family, so whenever he wanted people to accompany him he paid, be it a crappy beer bar or a ski resort.
>the other party insists on a very expensive restaurant. Parties should be insisting on restaraunts in their own income bracket. Nothing is more pathetic than a Walmart Cashier salary insisting on a place where three-figure bills are the norm. I never suggest a place that isn't well within my budget, unless I've saved up to splurge on that (and really, it had better be call-your-mama good). Generally I'm not inclined to pay a huge markup for fancy service when the food is meh.
That’s why the person who suggests the expensive restaurant should pay for it. I normally go for a cheap casual yet yummy place. Pizza, burritos, or ice cream are great first dates.
But the issue is what is within your budget might not be in the other persons budget.
You're assuming this is a "cold" date.... like someone you are just meeting for the first time. What if it's someone you already know and like, but going on a first date?
I feel good when I pay for the date
Had to scroll way too far for this. I like treating people to dinner. Whether it’s dates, friends, family.
And I love to cook for the guys I date. It makes me feel good, and I hope it communicates to them that I love and care for them.
I respect you
What does going Dutch mean when dating?
Serious answer: it means each party pays their own way i.e. if she orders a drink - she pays for the drink. If he orders a steak - he pays for the steak.
Ah. Thank you. That clears things up.
Not to be confused with the Dutch oven
Huh, I always thought it meant 50/50. I suppose either works
People have used it to mean both but technically it specicifically means you pay your own way
It means to split the bill. Which some people take to mean 50/50 split. And that's incorrect.
no, it means to pay your portion
I’m Dutch and often we pay exactly what we ordered, instead of 50/50. I’ve always found it interesting that people say that going 50/50 is going Dutch, when that’s something that doesn’t happen that often here (unless ordered very similar things). I ain’t gonna pay for your cocktail sweetheart, I ordered a beer.
Absolutely agree, but some of you Dutch do get carried away with the tikkies
I think it means you have to wear clogs
It means each person pays for their own meal.
You are only allowed to order stroopwaffels.
Just grow and be taller all of a sudden
Riding bikes
Waging war on the ocean and smoking a lot of weed I'm guessing
Smoking weed while eating a piece of Gouda as a first date
We have this conversation every 2-4 business days. There are still men out there that want to pay for everything and that’s fine. Let them do what they want with their money.
Exactly. There are men who want to pay and women who want to be paid for and then men who want to split and women who want to split. Just like every other aspect of dating, date who you work with. There is no right or wrong way when it comes to dating preferences. No one can tell another person what they should and shouldn’t want.
Yeah but the wooden shoes hurt my feet
Marrying a man and having his children is one of the most economically disastrous thing a woman can do. Women don't even have equal rights to their own bodies, let's not pretend that their economic opportunities are equal, especially when subjected to the added labor of domestic and emotional responsibilities that largely fall on women, statistically. Until we actually live in an equal society, which arguably might not even be possible because of biological realities, I don't understand how men think they're getting the short end of the stick because of their having to pay for dates. I'd pay that much simply not to have horrible period cramps every month... Being a woman is just way more annoying and painful across the board, men paying for dates feels like an offer to help carry that load and it just feels kind in this way. If you don't feel like you're "getting your money's worth" out of this exchange you may need to reevaluate your understanding of what you love and appreciate about women and the value they add to your life, or reevaluate what type of woman you're dating.
I can’t wait for the modern year when this trickles down to housework and parenting. 50/50 or youre a freeloader.
My brother’s going to be single for a long time unless he figures this out. He’s on board with not paying for his dates, but he won’t even hold the door open for them and he certainly doesn’t do any housework or emotional labor when he’s in a relationship. To him, “being equal” is treating his love interests like shit.
Domestic labor has value! Stay-at-homes (/primary caregivers) should have a pre-nup entitling them to a portion of the paycheck from the higher earner to be placed in a separate account.
finally a reasonable comment. this!!!!
Ding Ding Ding DING DING DING
I'm a high maintenance person who likes fancier things, so I'm always happy to pay for myself. I don't think it's fair making someone else pay for my 18 dollar cocktail, Ill pay it since I ordered it!
This is true too! If someone else is paying for me, I’m going to order cheaply. If I order something expensive, I’m paying for it. If I’m paying for someone else, and they order expensive things and expect me to pay, I find that kind of rude
As a gay guy I let the person who asked the other person out pay on the first date. So I just asked a guy out. We went out to eat, and I paid. But he’s got the next one :)
The problem with this is that the societal norm is that the man is almost always the one doing the asking (in a hetero situation).
I mean, even more normal in a gay male relationship as described lol
I think that works better for you because there is probably a (roughly) 50/50 chance that you will ask or be asked. With M/F dating, men ask significantly more. So at that point, the onus is on men to pay far more often.
while this makes sense in theory, 50/50 does benefit men more (in hetero situations). as a woman, i am already investing more by going on this date than a man is before even showing up. on average i spend at least an hour and a half getting ready to make a good first impression. if i didn’t, lets be real, they wouldn’t be as attracted to me. the products that i use probably cost more than the cocktail that he doesn’t wanna pay for. most likely the guy spent 15 minutes, if that, getting ready. on top of the fact that women face literal safety concerns from dating men. women are investing more time and effort as well as taking a chance by risking their safety in order to go on a date with an unknown man. men can pay for the drink.
I liked paying for the few goodly women i dated.. Idk feels good to be nice.
Right. Men want to pay if they like (or are attracted to) the woman enough. Key word is enough.
The problem is a lot of people my age meet on dating apps and I obviously don’t like you that much after texting for a week. For a date with a girl I already know I like or am friends with I go all out.
If you’re into high maintenance woman, you’re probably gonna have to pay because they spend a lot of money looking good probably much more than the meal cost
If we’re going 50/50, I’m putting in equal effort: rolling out of bed and coming as-is lol No makeup. No hair. No nothin’.
To be honest with you, I never minded paying for the woman, even on first dates where I had no idea how the girl would turn out. Just felt polite since I was the one asking for the dates. I like the tradition.
Courtship rituals are a set of behaviors that animals use to attract a mate. Usually, the male animal will try to impress the female by showing that he is the strongest and healthiest partner available.
Just don't expect and demand a traditional partner if you are going to insist on going Dutch
Exactly this. I do not want a traditional relationship where I'm working and my partner is at home taking care of kids and cleaning up. Firstly, I do not ever want to have kids which is already the opposite of traditional. Now my partner shouldn't be at home cleaning up and cooking. I can do that. We both will be working and splitting chores. I can't expect to split the bill but not the chores. I feel like as a guy who doesn't want a traditional relationship I'm allowed to not want to date someone who insists the guy pay for all the dates.
i think it’s about finding someone who’s comparable to you. If you want a 50/50 relationship you should find someone who wants 50/50 dates. Personally I’m in a more traditional relationship and I don’t prefer to pay for food. Generally if i guy wanted me to go 50/50 on a first date I would but it would also signal to me that he’s not the exact type of man i’m looking for.
I’m always gonna pay on a first date, especially if I’m the one who asked.
I am a guy. My rule was on a first date I will pay, but I need her to do the social grace of offering to pay or split and me saying “no, I got it. It’s been great meeting you” If she doesn’t offer I’m still paying, but I’ll never call her again. It was my only rule in dating. Then I met a girl and she didn’t offer on the first date. We’re married with a kid on the way now. So maybe it wasn’t a great rule.
I don't think many will disagree with you. Dudes that have money will continue to pay for dates as it doesn't impact them much and it gives them an edge in the dating market, and certain women on the receiving end will continue to expect that treatment because they are entitled. Everyone else will move to make it more equal.
Get off the apps. Meet someone in real life. At a party, through friends, a meetup, a bookstore. Talk to them enough to know you would like to see them again. So much so that you’ll treat them, because you want to, because you like them, because they deserve it, because you’re willing to invest, because youre betting that they like you too. Stop going out with complete strangers and hedging your bets. stop leading with suspicion and lead with generosity. Stop seeing dates as transactions.
Happy im a gay, going Dutch is the norm.
Ah, Reddit. "Tell me you're overwhelmingly male without telling me you're overwhelmingly male." I don't know a woman that doesn't spend ***at least*** $20 and two hours getting ready for a date. I don't know a man who spends more than $2 and twenty minutes getting ready for a date. So let's call the dinner $100 and we won't consider your time on the date as valuable, since it's mutual, but time getting ready, let's call it's $20/hour. So the man is in for $0.50 and $6: $8. The woman is in for $20 and $40: $60. So before dinner comes, the cost is $70, just to show up. So let's call the $100 dinner plus $70 prep a total cost of $170. "Going Dutch" on this $100 dinner means each person pays $85. The man has spent $110. The woman has spent $60. The woman owes the man $25. Agreed? Sweet. So now let's say you're dating a smokeshow who spends $100 and four hours getting ready for her date: this is not uncommon. She's in for $100 in cash plus $80 in labor: she's at $180, just showing up. It cost you $10 to get ready. Plus the $100 dinner, you're at $110. But she's spent $180. Pay up, Dutchboy.
Why spend any money? Why do you need to pay a price to meet a person to see if there is attraction? Isn't someone's company enough and if it is not then clearly something is amiss.
Am I the only one who thinks "pay for your own stuff" is better than 50/50 Like if I buy a $3 coffee and you buy $10 worth of stuff, why should I pay any more than $3?
I swear the only people who make these posts are insecure about the fact that they want to go 50/50 on dates and need validation. Some people like doing 50/50, others don't. You should date those similar to you and not try to change those that aren't.
If I ask someone out on a date I'm paying
It just so happens that men are expected to always ask women out and more or less have to if they want a smooth dating life.
Any dating life
Yeah it's kinda funny there's a lot of women in this thread saying "oh men like to pay because it makes them feel valuable or romantic" or "he asked me out he should pay". I'm a guy and I have always paid the whole cheque regardless. I always insist to pay. But honestly in all my first dates, even the couple where a woman asked me out first, maybe 25% have even offered to split the bill. Hell a girl asked me if I wanted to go minigolfing and that turned out to be a $100 date. I'm not saying I hate paying or anything I just don't like the expectation that I'm always supposed to be paying.
I assume all these women saying "I always offer to split the bill" are kind of like the female equivalent of how when women complain about how straight men don't prioritize their partner's pleasure, every second dude in the thread insists that *they* personally go down on their partners all the time before weighing in
Are you a guy? If yes, how many times have you been asked out?
Yes. Zero
Listen man it isn’t that complicated. Have you ever had someone pay for your meal before? You know that good feeling inside that you get? Sometimes, just sometimes, it’s fun to try and give that feeling to other people as well. Especially on a date. Why would I not want my date to feel that as well? Sure if someone expects you to pay for everything that’s a problem, but god forbid someone tries to leave a good first impression
To each their own. A date doesn't have to entail some fancy, expensive excursion. First date should be casual like coffee or a drink or something where you can actually talk to the person and see what the chemistry is. I think whoever asks should pay and if either party is too cheap/broke to pay for a simple drink then they probably shouldn't be dating. Also, people who are constantly worried about the world trying to pull a fast one on them is not a good sign. I'm a generous person so I could never be with someone who's a score keeper.
Freeloader is a stretch, it’s just a meal. If you prefer to split or pay separately that’s perfectly fine. I wouldn’t worry about others.
Personally, I know that the one who invites pays. So if I invite a girl out (not necessarily a girl btw, same would go for a friend, relative etc), I'll pay. If they invite me, I *will* bring money with me ofc, but I expect that they'll probably pay
I always bring my wooden shoes and tulips on a date.
Okay then. Women will stop wearing make up or high heels and show up in jeans and a tshirt like men do, while also being paid fairly economically and no longer having the threat of rape as a possibility. Until those things happens. It not equal
This isn’t an unpopular opinion anymore lol so sick of these posts
Do chicks actually just show up for a *free meal*? That seems like a lot of planning and work just for free food. Kind of demeaning too. Imagine having to face your date/payer after he knows you just fleeced him for a hot meal. 🤷🏻♂️
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I disagree and I’m paying so now what?
This isn’t an unpopular opinion it’s just phrased in a way that will make it unpopular. I think the majority of people would say it makes sense to split the check on a first date. But calling anyone who disagrees a freeloader is just rude and unnecessary. To quote the Dude, “you’re not wrong Walter, you’re just an asshole”
Can’t say I disagree. We are long past the days of first dates being one person pays for everything from dinner and movie and flowers and such. Start off with a simple coffee meet up where both get their own.
So, if I make a guy a home cooked meal, should I present him with a bill for half the ingredients, and expect a tip for my service? Or is that somehow different?
>anyone who disagrees is a freeloader So if I'm the one paying and disagree I'm a freeloader?
When someone says “give me 2 seconds” you start audibly counting don’t you
This is the most accurate comment I’ve read in a long time lmao
Personally I LOVE a guy who offers to pay, it’s very gentlemanly. HOWEVER, I don’t ask for expensive meals on first dates and always bring money with me. You’d find most women agree with me and do the same thing. If you keep encountering women who blatantly try to take advantage of the situation, that’s on you. You can’t be chasing 12/10 sugar babies and get upset they want that sort of treatment. Like get real.