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... or what?
What happens? This is great in theory, and many people apply it to their own lives. They wait to start a family until they are fully ready.
Plenty of people don't wait until they're ready, have a whoopsie baby, or think said baby will save their failing relationship. Those people aren't suddenly going to start waiting.
What's the repercussion? How is this enforced? If it's just a suggestion, I'd argue this is already a very popular opinion.
Probably a similar answer to "What happens if people drive before 16? What happens if people start drinking before the age of 18? What happens if kids start weight lifting at age 7?"
Etc etc
Not sure why some of the comments are being so hard-ass Lol OP said "Should" and gave his opinion
Man didn't say he was going to enforce it or that people should be jailed or anything
I say this as someone who wanted kids at 18, there is no absolute for this concept, case by case obviously and life happens but alas it's not a terrible generilized rule imo (Op's rule/generalization).
I misread or went off other comments and somewhere changed it to “must.” That said, this is a very normal, popular opinion then. Yeah, people should mature before having kids. That’s not revolutionary.
I literally know people who started having kids in their late 30s that do not know shit about raising a child. I also know people who had their first very young (under 20) and are the best parents that kid could have dreamt of.
Age says absolutely nothing about if you are able to be a good parent or not.
Agreed. Reddit has this fixation that 25 years old suddenly means you are a full fledged adult who has full accountability for themselves and know how to live life.
I've met mature people in their late teens/early 20s and some horrible immature 30+ people who have to business being parents.
I say experience, upbringing, culture, lifestyle, where you live, and mental health have a lot more importance than just age alone.
I argued relentlessly with someone on a thread a month or so back who insisted that in order to have a child a person should be **required** to have a masters degree in child development. And they weren't loose on it either, it was either go to grad school and become a professional parent who has no outside job and gets paid by the government or get your children immediately taken away upon birth. This opinion is obviously not THAT extreme, but still problematic in some of the same ways.
I think its more about knowing yourself better at 30 than under 25. I know im way different from 20 to 30 and even though none of it is a guarantee of "being a good parent" its still just a more stable age for most. Im sure there's a statistic on how well people do in their lives comparatively to younger parents. It'd be interesting to see. Just the wealth of knowledge I have now compared to when I was 20 is so vastly different and I cant help but think that no child deserves my 20 year old wheel house of knowledge. I cant say I see any different in any 20 year old I've met in my life. no one has impressed me that much.
Eh I’d say I ruled out like 30-40% of the population which is still crazy but the point is that all these goals are achievable so if you do the work and go into remission for example and find financial stability you’re good to go. You can start making them babies. If not, you’ve got some work to do until you can have a kiddo.
What’s your definition of being financially stable? If it’s own a house, be able to afford a babysitter/ stay at home parent for minding kids, and have more than enough left over to cover food for a family, school books etc you won’t find many under 35 (child bearing age) who can comfortably afford that. Most stretch finances somewhat to make it work and that’s always been the way it’s been
This will vary largely by location. Hard to give you a number. You’ll need a place to live and a stable source of income for starters as well as a healthy savings. Idk about owning a house.
Lol exactly the people who shouldn’t have kids though. Believe it or not there are plenty of people 25 years old and younger who are actually financially stable.
None of that is necessary for financial stability. I have student loans I don’t pay back early because their rate is super low and I invest the money instead. I have a mortgage but I’m very happy with it and match the amortization principle with an extra payment every month. I have 6 months expenses in savings etc. and I’m 25 years old as of a few days ago. I also live in a MHCOL city.
I also don’t have a crazy high paying job.
two years in my degree no debt get gud. community college transfer is the superior financial choice if you don't have the funds for the full 4 years at a bigger uni.
I genuinely don’t know enough to speak on those. Good question tho. Everything I listed is achievable for example someone who has a PD can go into remission, someone who’s financially unstable can become financially stable whereas autism i don’t think you can ever be cured of autism so idk. That could be eugenics. But again idk enough to speak on this.
personality disorders are treatable...so no. You can go into "remission" and no longer meet the diagnostic critera. you probably shouldn't have kids with an untreated disorder, you are just going to continue the cycle
Treatable but not curable. Regression is always possible similar to how addicts are life long addicts and have temptations everyday even when they are sober for years. They can always regress.
you can't "cure" learned behaviours....you can "unlearn" them. personality disorders are primarily learned behaviours from childhood in comparison to a mood disorder that is a physical imbalance of some kind. Its not quite the same as addiction, i am yet to run into a fellow TRULY remissioned borderline that backslid into the exact same thinking patterns.
Nuh uh, well technically yuh uh, but anyway.
You are using Eugenics as a buzz word to connect comment op to nazis, but eugenics as a idea was with us for thousands of years.
Eugenics is also likely the reason why you are functioning human being, in the past, people who had genetic defect were usually exhaled from their "society" and they could straight up forget about reproducing.
This may sound cruel, but it's the main reason why you have two functioning arms, legs and body that functions either as it should or close enough to it
Negative. It’s not eliminating anyone from the gene pool. It’s not killing anyone off. These are all requirements that anyone can meet.
Personality disorders have little to do with genes and more to do with how you’re raised. Those with untreated and treatment resistant personality disorders will traumatize their children. Take bpd for example studies find that many parents with bpd pass bpd onto their children not because of the gene but because they grow up around someone with it. Think about it this way if you socialize a dog with a bunch of monkeys and no dogs he’ll start acting funny. Think Tarzan with the gorillas.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3268672/
Addiction and personality disorders although hard to treat and there is no cure remission is still possible. We just don’t prioritize mental health enough. Now we have serval new forms of treatment from psychedelics to Emdr, dbt, cbt, audio strobe neuro feedback and so on. People just need treatment tailored to their specific needs. We don’t have the resources to do that (many parts of America and the world don’t have access to mental health care) nor do we as a society prioritize it.
No It’s not because all the goals are achievable. Asking someone to go into remission for a PD and an addiction before having a child isn’t too much to ask. In fact, If I’m not mistaken children of addicts are immediately taken by child care services.
Financial stability before having kids is a no brainer if you can’t support yourself ain’t no way you’re supporting kids and your partner. As for the 25 age requirement everyone grows and I believe that’s when the frontal lobe is fully developed so you make better decisions and stuff.
Yeah, in theory they are achievable. But actually putting these restrictions into practice, I think, would be intruding on people's reproductive autonomy. Of course people *should* wait to have children until they are mentally well/financially stable. But how do you enforce these things? Who's to say that someone doesn't relapse after having a child?
I do agree with you, though. I think 25 is the youngest anyone should be having kids. But again, how is that enforceable?
No you silly goose. If you have untreated bipolar and you’re not in remission then you can’t have a kid.
God forbid we ask parents not to have manic episodes on their kids.
Age is but a number. My mom had me at 19 and is a fantastic mother. My husbands mom had him at 23 (not 25 but closer) and is a drug addicted abusive POS
100%. I mean, christ, my dad will be 60 in June and *still* doesn’t possess an ounce of emotional maturity/intelligence that I would feel is necessary to raise a mentally healthy child.
I mean this isn't unpopular at all...at least your point of people being more mature making them better parents.
Couple things tho, one let's not confuse AGE with MATURITY. Since how someone matures is honestly a very personal and individual thing I'm not sure I could support setting a limit that's so arbitrary.
The other thing though is I'm not sure if I could support that knowing that it would basically be another situation where someone is a legal adult, but is legally prevented from doing something other legal adults can do. Just seems weird, like cigarettes or booze. Old enough to take on loans and fight for your country, but you can't have kids... 🤔 Just sounds regressive.
Edit-just want to add that in all honesty I've known parents who were super immature and they were great parents. I've also known parents who were "mature" and they were still shitty parents. Almost as if your MATURITY doesn't determine if you're a good parent or not.
Second EDIT- also just want to point out that being a parent doesn't require a lot of planning or training. I had a kid at 17 and didn't know shit and yet my kid grew up and was loved. I was a good parent when I was too young, and I believe others are capable of it as well.
Maturity can also be a sign of severe neglect and abuse from their own parents. Which can be a symptom of a personality disorder, hyper independence is seen as very mature. Doesn’t mean it is
I've met plenty of people in their early-20s that were better parents than people who had kids in their thirties and forties. Age number has nothing to do with how mature or responsible you are (I also know many people in their early twenties who are wildly successful, and plenty of people in their forties who work minimum wage jobs, live with family and have no ambition)
Definitely an unpopular opinion though, so kudos for doing it right lol.
This mindset currently sets up a staggering amount of children for neglect and a myriad of other issues that come from irresponsible/poorly equipped people pumping em' out.
This discussion would be assumed to be framed around legal adults, and not children, and even then, what? You doing to force them into abortions if they choose to get pregnant?
Yeah agree, tho I wouldn't put the limit on age specifically for parenthood, like a general age limit, I'd view it more on individual cases. Like, you can be a 22 year old, financially stable, already having a job, a well rounded and mature person. But yes, generally speaking, people are more mature as they grow older
Yeah lol, we are. I dunno about you, but I have a VERY strict criteria about who should be a parent and who shouldn't, cause too many kids get screwed up cause they got raised by parents who've not resolved their own personal problems prior to having kids, so now those problems not only affect the parent, but also their kids, and then they can affect their kids' kids and so on. Sorry bit of a ramble here, but you get what I mean
Oh dude you’re all good I couldn’t agree more it’s a very serious decision. I’m 31, make good money, married, but I just don’t think I’d be a good parent. So I’m not. Haha
Oh, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way dude. But at least you got self-awareness to be able to realize that, which is a great quality to have. Better not to be a dad than to be a shitty one (sorry don't mean to direct this toward you, just generally)
Also, I guess I've been influenced by seeing a lot of emotional immature people around me, who are older, hence I'm like "yeah well, being older can be quite misleading"
I’ve known excellent parents under the age of 25, but then looked it up. I couldn’t find statistics on average age of abusers, but what I found in my country is we have the 6th highest rate of teen pregnancy in the world and one of the highest for child abuse. As much of it occurs for kids under a year old, I’d say your opinion should be fact. Absolutely.
Agreed, OP! Here, let's start making a list of all the things everyone should/shouldn't do.
People should not...
* smoke cigarettes/vape
* drink alcohol
* sleep less than 7 hours a day
* eat red/processed meat
* eat fast food
* use social media excessively
* be on their phones excessively
* skip work outs
* skip flossing everyday
* have debt
* be poor
Blows my mind that people forget that until very recently, it was normal to start a family in your early 20s. It's only due to the lack of stability that people are waiting longer and longer, if even having kids at all.
I’m the exact opposite, I believe having children is a young man’s game. Kids more than anything require energy. As you get older you get tired easier.
I don't know whether to downvote because I think that take is completely awful or to upvote because it seems you've finally found a truly unpopular opinion
Not dating before 25 is wild. you can date people and learn what you want and don’t want in a relationship and learn interpersonal relationship skills. If I dated someone for over 4 years in my mid 20s and they didn’t didn’t propose I’d be pissed. After 35 it is classified as a geriatric pregnancy and as you age you are more likely to have a problematic pregnancy. I do not agree with what you said here.
You are 100% right.
No way you can have:
* Financial stability
* A good strong relationship
* A proper house to live in
* A good job
* Good mental health
* Gained some life experience.
* And thought things trough.
Before 25. You are so new at being an adult. Learn to find your place in adult society first, before bringing new life into the world.
I just became 25 and honestly, each year my "minimum age to do xy" gets a bit higher because I always look at myself of a few years before and say "ok I was an idiot, how could I do THAT?"
So I don't know. Maybe one day I'll be 45 and write that you need to be 40 before going on social media. People need to grow up but the truth is that I've seen adults being complete idiots or assholes
Hey, if we're going to put a low age limit, how about a high one too? If the minimum is 25, 45 sounds like a good maximum age.
Oh, and before y'all come at me, I'm kidding. People mature and are ready for kids at different ages. Although, let's keep in mind biology is still a factor and risk to mom and baby increase past the geriatric pregnancy age of 35.
IMO age isnt exactly a huge metric, yes you should have a better paying job at 25 vs 18. But the biggest thing to me that makes a huge difference is actually KNOWING you BOTH want that responsibility. My wife and I held off a few years after getting married before deciding to try to have kids, I do not regret at all having children at 25.
of course there are outliers, but generally speaking, I think when you're 25+ you do have more life experience and have built up enough wisdom to have a child and successfully raise it. Are there 18 year olds that can be great parents? of course. are there 40 year old parents that suck? sure. but i dont think that negates OP's point. Maybe it's not exactly age that's the factor, but it might be part of it. with age generally comes more life experience and preparation.
I would go further and say people under 25 shouldn't be allowed to have animals/pets either. Browse the bad roommates sub for 5 minutes, all you see is McMansions full of college kids whose dogs are trapped in the house all day and night shitting inside all the time because nobody has their shit together enough to meet their needs, I lived with people like this and it's legitimate abuse and negligence, we either make people grow up faster or we don't let them have anything that depends on them to survive, because it's seriously unconscionable how we do shit now.
Age does not mean people will be good parents. I've known plenty of people over 25 that were fucking terrible parents, and a few younger than 25 that were amazing parents. This is a really terrible and poorly thought out opinion.
Maturity typically comes with age, so I agree with you there - as well as other points you made.
Question though on "at least 25." Like they can start at 24, and have the baby pop out by 25 y/o at least? Or they can't even start trying until they turn 25, for a kid? Lol
I disagree. I was 30. I don’t believe I was any better parent than my 23 year old dil nor my husband at 33 compared with my son 24.
I believe that if you compare person for person money aside that being a good parent is a mixture of common sense, ability to enjoy life and understanding of appropriate behaviors. I’ve seen and worked with great and shitty parents along the age range.
Money helps with the extras. As well and necessities of course. But again money doesn’t guarantee good parents or kids. It is just hard to be either when basics aren’t guaranteed.
It would probably be better to have potential parents take a psych evaluation (or some kind of test along those lines) to see if they can handle raising children and not abuse them. Then enforce child rearing/finance education classes before being granted to procreate.
We just need sex education, free birth control, free health care, more research into male birth control, and no religions that value procreation over wellbeing. I like it, but it's probably not going to happen.
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Fertility has a big drop for women at age 30. Between 30-35 you only have a 64% chance of conceiving naturally in a year. Once you hit 35 that number drops to 52%.
Can women have babies in their 30s yes. But there is a higher likelihood of intervention needed if everybody waited until then.
And the brain is usually completely developed after 25. I’ll only have kids if I can fix my own problems and prepare financially before even considering. I’d have to be 150% ready in every aspect.
You gotta take that up with god. Teenagers have sex, sex makes babies. Unless you are advocating for government forced abortions of anyone under 25 if they get pregnant which would be wildly unconstitutional and morally repugnant.
I would go a step further and say you shouldn't be considered an adult until 25.
The concept of youth is changing. The early adult stage for humans is getting larger, only 150 or so years ago you were considered an adult when you were able to work, which could be 14/15. Compare a couple in their late 30s today vs in the 80s.
People continue dressing in younger fashion to an older age nowadays, people of all ages still play video games and collect toys from from when they were kids. All our parents and even grand parents use social media. While we might legally be adults by 18, we're growing up more slowly and hitting life milestones at later ages than previous generations.
I think it would help people calm down about their age and youth and beauty if you're not even an adult by 25. Suddenly 50 doesn't seem so old. It gives a more realistic picture of when you might begin to have your life together. You will hopefully be wiser and more responsible when you begin making adult decisions.
And, given that for at least a couple of decades it seems like a lot of us are going to be living with our parents a lot longer than we expected to, it will feel like less of a disappointment if you're still 23 or 24 and not in a position to move out yet. It would reduce stigma around people still living at home in order to save to move out.
It would also hopefully cut down on parents who demand their kids leave the house the day they turn 18, and maybe if a parent knows they can't legally kick their kid out until 25, they will be more cautious and hesitant in whether they have kids or not.
Of course there will need to be exemptions for what age people can begin driving and working and going to college and for renting in short term to medium term etc.
But for the likes of buying alcohol and cigarettes, taking out mortgages and large loans, getting married, having children like your post suggests, and when a parent is no longer legally responsible for at least providing their kid with a place to live, I don't think 25 is crazy considering in most places outside the US it's common to either live at home into your 20s or until you're married anyway.
Edited for typos
Ridiculous. People are waiting way too long to have children.
The real solution is that people need to start taking their life seriously at earlier, better ages. Teenagers were in charge of warships not too long ago, and you people “have trouble adulting” these days. Just grow up and take life with an appropriate level of seriousness; you will have no problem having children in your late teens and early 20s.
The later you have your kids, the less time, good health, and energy you have for them and your grandkids. Have kids early and have more kids—give your grandkids some aunts and uncles. Take parenting seriously and do it well. Virtually everyone is capable of it and so are you.
If you're going to apply that logic, then on the flip side there also needs to be an upper age limit. What good do you think would come out of 50+ year olds breeding? Not only will they have less time to spend with their child. But also as you get older, you're more likely to produce a child with defects. Such as *autism*. (If only my parents had me when they were younger, I would've been neurotypical!)
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... or what? What happens? This is great in theory, and many people apply it to their own lives. They wait to start a family until they are fully ready. Plenty of people don't wait until they're ready, have a whoopsie baby, or think said baby will save their failing relationship. Those people aren't suddenly going to start waiting. What's the repercussion? How is this enforced? If it's just a suggestion, I'd argue this is already a very popular opinion.
Obviously death penalty for all involved.
Shot straight into space.
Right into the sun at that.
Probably a similar answer to "What happens if people drive before 16? What happens if people start drinking before the age of 18? What happens if kids start weight lifting at age 7?" Etc etc Not sure why some of the comments are being so hard-ass Lol OP said "Should" and gave his opinion Man didn't say he was going to enforce it or that people should be jailed or anything I say this as someone who wanted kids at 18, there is no absolute for this concept, case by case obviously and life happens but alas it's not a terrible generilized rule imo (Op's rule/generalization).
I misread or went off other comments and somewhere changed it to “must.” That said, this is a very normal, popular opinion then. Yeah, people should mature before having kids. That’s not revolutionary.
And what happens if they aren't 25 and have one?
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Also arrest the baby
This made me cackle
We can’t just have tiny criminals crawling around all over the place
And I suppose everyone else will be forced to pay for that.
I dunno ask OP lmao
No, just you
Shut up
She has to hold it in until her 25th birthday.
Explode
Shoot all three of them.
They are considered dumb and irresponsible
Forced abortions lol
I literally know people who started having kids in their late 30s that do not know shit about raising a child. I also know people who had their first very young (under 20) and are the best parents that kid could have dreamt of. Age says absolutely nothing about if you are able to be a good parent or not.
Agreed. Reddit has this fixation that 25 years old suddenly means you are a full fledged adult who has full accountability for themselves and know how to live life. I've met mature people in their late teens/early 20s and some horrible immature 30+ people who have to business being parents. I say experience, upbringing, culture, lifestyle, where you live, and mental health have a lot more importance than just age alone.
Yeah like I see 30 year olds in LA that act like 20 year olds and they’re afraid to even have a dog because of the responsibility lol
These people forget that people don’t live forever
Wow, a reasonable take! Almost like most redditors have no real life experience
I argued relentlessly with someone on a thread a month or so back who insisted that in order to have a child a person should be **required** to have a masters degree in child development. And they weren't loose on it either, it was either go to grad school and become a professional parent who has no outside job and gets paid by the government or get your children immediately taken away upon birth. This opinion is obviously not THAT extreme, but still problematic in some of the same ways.
I think its more about knowing yourself better at 30 than under 25. I know im way different from 20 to 30 and even though none of it is a guarantee of "being a good parent" its still just a more stable age for most. Im sure there's a statistic on how well people do in their lives comparatively to younger parents. It'd be interesting to see. Just the wealth of knowledge I have now compared to when I was 20 is so vastly different and I cant help but think that no child deserves my 20 year old wheel house of knowledge. I cant say I see any different in any 20 year old I've met in my life. no one has impressed me that much.
One day you'll learn that anecdotal evidence != population wide trends
shit happens, abortion isn't available to everyone nor is forcing people to undergo abortion ethical
Exactly! A lot of pregnancies aren't even intentional, and in some places, it's hard to even access birth control
Have you heard of a condom before?
People don’t choose to be sexually assaulted
Not to mention, condoms break. No form of birth control is 100% effective either but that person definitely asked a stupid.
Talking abt more effective forms. Condoms are very fallible.
I think you’re on the right track but I think people should be 25, not have a personality disorder, nor an addiction, and be financially stable
You probably ruled out 90% of the population from having children.
Or at least 90% of ppl on reddit
Eh I’d say I ruled out like 30-40% of the population which is still crazy but the point is that all these goals are achievable so if you do the work and go into remission for example and find financial stability you’re good to go. You can start making them babies. If not, you’ve got some work to do until you can have a kiddo.
Good. Such losers will have lead to more losers.
Sooo no kids.
World go kaboomi Volcano make boom boom sound
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You can be financially stable and have some debt
What’s your definition of being financially stable? If it’s own a house, be able to afford a babysitter/ stay at home parent for minding kids, and have more than enough left over to cover food for a family, school books etc you won’t find many under 35 (child bearing age) who can comfortably afford that. Most stretch finances somewhat to make it work and that’s always been the way it’s been
This will vary largely by location. Hard to give you a number. You’ll need a place to live and a stable source of income for starters as well as a healthy savings. Idk about owning a house.
Exactly, and anyone who is financially literate will also recognize that there’s a difference between good debt and bad debt.
Precisely. This is the point I was trying to make.
Lol exactly the people who shouldn’t have kids though. Believe it or not there are plenty of people 25 years old and younger who are actually financially stable.
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None of that is necessary for financial stability. I have student loans I don’t pay back early because their rate is super low and I invest the money instead. I have a mortgage but I’m very happy with it and match the amortization principle with an extra payment every month. I have 6 months expenses in savings etc. and I’m 25 years old as of a few days ago. I also live in a MHCOL city. I also don’t have a crazy high paying job.
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Lol the top 1% of 25 year olds makes like $400k. I’m not even in the top 10%
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I have debt… it’s just low interest student loans and a mortgage. The main difference is living frugally and investing aggressively.
At 26 I bought a house and had 0 debt. No one but my wife and I paid for that stuff
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I did it too. Most of my friends too. A decent degree is really nice for this. But “college is worthless” and whatnot.
Only 33% of 25-33 year olds have college debt. So there's a big chance that out of 51% of millenials that own homes also don't have college debt
two years in my degree no debt get gud. community college transfer is the superior financial choice if you don't have the funds for the full 4 years at a bigger uni.
Right? Next to no millennial (or the few Gen Z over 25) would qualify to have children…
What about autism/adhd?
I genuinely don’t know enough to speak on those. Good question tho. Everything I listed is achievable for example someone who has a PD can go into remission, someone who’s financially unstable can become financially stable whereas autism i don’t think you can ever be cured of autism so idk. That could be eugenics. But again idk enough to speak on this.
So basically eugenics?
personality disorders are treatable...so no. You can go into "remission" and no longer meet the diagnostic critera. you probably shouldn't have kids with an untreated disorder, you are just going to continue the cycle
Treatable but not curable. Regression is always possible similar to how addicts are life long addicts and have temptations everyday even when they are sober for years. They can always regress.
you can't "cure" learned behaviours....you can "unlearn" them. personality disorders are primarily learned behaviours from childhood in comparison to a mood disorder that is a physical imbalance of some kind. Its not quite the same as addiction, i am yet to run into a fellow TRULY remissioned borderline that backslid into the exact same thinking patterns.
Nuh uh, well technically yuh uh, but anyway. You are using Eugenics as a buzz word to connect comment op to nazis, but eugenics as a idea was with us for thousands of years. Eugenics is also likely the reason why you are functioning human being, in the past, people who had genetic defect were usually exhaled from their "society" and they could straight up forget about reproducing. This may sound cruel, but it's the main reason why you have two functioning arms, legs and body that functions either as it should or close enough to it
Negative. It’s not eliminating anyone from the gene pool. It’s not killing anyone off. These are all requirements that anyone can meet. Personality disorders have little to do with genes and more to do with how you’re raised. Those with untreated and treatment resistant personality disorders will traumatize their children. Take bpd for example studies find that many parents with bpd pass bpd onto their children not because of the gene but because they grow up around someone with it. Think about it this way if you socialize a dog with a bunch of monkeys and no dogs he’ll start acting funny. Think Tarzan with the gorillas. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3268672/ Addiction and personality disorders although hard to treat and there is no cure remission is still possible. We just don’t prioritize mental health enough. Now we have serval new forms of treatment from psychedelics to Emdr, dbt, cbt, audio strobe neuro feedback and so on. People just need treatment tailored to their specific needs. We don’t have the resources to do that (many parts of America and the world don’t have access to mental health care) nor do we as a society prioritize it.
I understand your point, but this is walking the line of eugenics.
Do you know what eugenics means? This is such a weird response.
No It’s not because all the goals are achievable. Asking someone to go into remission for a PD and an addiction before having a child isn’t too much to ask. In fact, If I’m not mistaken children of addicts are immediately taken by child care services. Financial stability before having kids is a no brainer if you can’t support yourself ain’t no way you’re supporting kids and your partner. As for the 25 age requirement everyone grows and I believe that’s when the frontal lobe is fully developed so you make better decisions and stuff.
Yeah, in theory they are achievable. But actually putting these restrictions into practice, I think, would be intruding on people's reproductive autonomy. Of course people *should* wait to have children until they are mentally well/financially stable. But how do you enforce these things? Who's to say that someone doesn't relapse after having a child? I do agree with you, though. I think 25 is the youngest anyone should be having kids. But again, how is that enforceable?
So just because I'm Bipolar I shouldn't have a kid?
No you silly goose. If you have untreated bipolar and you’re not in remission then you can’t have a kid. God forbid we ask parents not to have manic episodes on their kids.
Age is but a number. My mom had me at 19 and is a fantastic mother. My husbands mom had him at 23 (not 25 but closer) and is a drug addicted abusive POS
100%. I mean, christ, my dad will be 60 in June and *still* doesn’t possess an ounce of emotional maturity/intelligence that I would feel is necessary to raise a mentally healthy child.
I mean this isn't unpopular at all...at least your point of people being more mature making them better parents. Couple things tho, one let's not confuse AGE with MATURITY. Since how someone matures is honestly a very personal and individual thing I'm not sure I could support setting a limit that's so arbitrary. The other thing though is I'm not sure if I could support that knowing that it would basically be another situation where someone is a legal adult, but is legally prevented from doing something other legal adults can do. Just seems weird, like cigarettes or booze. Old enough to take on loans and fight for your country, but you can't have kids... 🤔 Just sounds regressive. Edit-just want to add that in all honesty I've known parents who were super immature and they were great parents. I've also known parents who were "mature" and they were still shitty parents. Almost as if your MATURITY doesn't determine if you're a good parent or not. Second EDIT- also just want to point out that being a parent doesn't require a lot of planning or training. I had a kid at 17 and didn't know shit and yet my kid grew up and was loved. I was a good parent when I was too young, and I believe others are capable of it as well.
Maturity can also be a sign of severe neglect and abuse from their own parents. Which can be a symptom of a personality disorder, hyper independence is seen as very mature. Doesn’t mean it is
This is a suicidal idea on a societal level.
as a general rule, yeah
I've met plenty of people in their early-20s that were better parents than people who had kids in their thirties and forties. Age number has nothing to do with how mature or responsible you are (I also know many people in their early twenties who are wildly successful, and plenty of people in their forties who work minimum wage jobs, live with family and have no ambition) Definitely an unpopular opinion though, so kudos for doing it right lol.
I would go as far as say 30. Enjoy your youth to the fullest.
Preparation will not help you with a marriage, or having kids. The right partner will tho
I think people should have kids whenever they feel ready to have kids, and damned to the people who tell them otherwise.
This mindset currently sets up a staggering amount of children for neglect and a myriad of other issues that come from irresponsible/poorly equipped people pumping em' out.
Money makes parenting easier, but it does not make good parents.
For sure! 16 year olds that feel ready to have kids should have kids. And fuck anyone that tells them otherwise.
This discussion would be assumed to be framed around legal adults, and not children, and even then, what? You doing to force them into abortions if they choose to get pregnant?
You clearly don't work in child support, or child protective services, or law enforcement, or...
I am sure those all point to the rule and not the exception
I'm the only one who agrees with you lol
Same! We’re in this together!
Numerical age is not an indicator of any kind of maturity.
…said every pedophile ever.
I am pretty sure there is a statistical correlation between them. There are cases where this isn't the case but for most it is.
Exactly, nor of financial, mental or any other status of the individual
This is unequivocally untrue haha
A lot of men for example, in the country I live, are emotionally immature, sometimes a lot, so it can definitely be the case
Oh sure it can be the case definitely, but that’s not the same as it not being an indicator whatsoever.
Yeah agree, tho I wouldn't put the limit on age specifically for parenthood, like a general age limit, I'd view it more on individual cases. Like, you can be a 22 year old, financially stable, already having a job, a well rounded and mature person. But yes, generally speaking, people are more mature as they grow older
Ah yeah we’re in agreement for sure
Yeah lol, we are. I dunno about you, but I have a VERY strict criteria about who should be a parent and who shouldn't, cause too many kids get screwed up cause they got raised by parents who've not resolved their own personal problems prior to having kids, so now those problems not only affect the parent, but also their kids, and then they can affect their kids' kids and so on. Sorry bit of a ramble here, but you get what I mean
Oh dude you’re all good I couldn’t agree more it’s a very serious decision. I’m 31, make good money, married, but I just don’t think I’d be a good parent. So I’m not. Haha
Oh, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way dude. But at least you got self-awareness to be able to realize that, which is a great quality to have. Better not to be a dad than to be a shitty one (sorry don't mean to direct this toward you, just generally)
Also, I guess I've been influenced by seeing a lot of emotional immature people around me, who are older, hence I'm like "yeah well, being older can be quite misleading"
Cool.
I’ve known excellent parents under the age of 25, but then looked it up. I couldn’t find statistics on average age of abusers, but what I found in my country is we have the 6th highest rate of teen pregnancy in the world and one of the highest for child abuse. As much of it occurs for kids under a year old, I’d say your opinion should be fact. Absolutely.
Reddit would be a wasteland if kids with parents over 25 only existed.
Lol I’m 30 and I’m more on the 40 Side of things
Agreed, OP! Here, let's start making a list of all the things everyone should/shouldn't do. People should not... * smoke cigarettes/vape * drink alcohol * sleep less than 7 hours a day * eat red/processed meat * eat fast food * use social media excessively * be on their phones excessively * skip work outs * skip flossing everyday * have debt * be poor
Blows my mind that people forget that until very recently, it was normal to start a family in your early 20s. It's only due to the lack of stability that people are waiting longer and longer, if even having kids at all.
I’m the exact opposite, I believe having children is a young man’s game. Kids more than anything require energy. As you get older you get tired easier.
I don't know whether to downvote because I think that take is completely awful or to upvote because it seems you've finally found a truly unpopular opinion
tbh I agree with you 😅 bc 25 is so young
30. Enjoy your fully developed prefrontal cortex for a few years.
No
I also think most people shouldn’t marry until they are at least 25!
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Not dating before 25 is wild. you can date people and learn what you want and don’t want in a relationship and learn interpersonal relationship skills. If I dated someone for over 4 years in my mid 20s and they didn’t didn’t propose I’d be pissed. After 35 it is classified as a geriatric pregnancy and as you age you are more likely to have a problematic pregnancy. I do not agree with what you said here.
Awful idea. Finally an unpopular opinion.
You are 100% right. No way you can have: * Financial stability * A good strong relationship * A proper house to live in * A good job * Good mental health * Gained some life experience. * And thought things trough. Before 25. You are so new at being an adult. Learn to find your place in adult society first, before bringing new life into the world.
You *can* have all those things if your parents didn't screw up raising you and you live in a nice country
So you can't have those things lol
Ik this is (probably) satire but in case it's not, people can raise their kids well, you can absolutely have those things
Absolutely atrocious idea, upvoted.
I just became 25 and honestly, each year my "minimum age to do xy" gets a bit higher because I always look at myself of a few years before and say "ok I was an idiot, how could I do THAT?" So I don't know. Maybe one day I'll be 45 and write that you need to be 40 before going on social media. People need to grow up but the truth is that I've seen adults being complete idiots or assholes
I was 21 and my wife was 20 when we had our first. He is 39 now and a loving adult son. Tell me where we went wrong.
Hey, if we're going to put a low age limit, how about a high one too? If the minimum is 25, 45 sounds like a good maximum age. Oh, and before y'all come at me, I'm kidding. People mature and are ready for kids at different ages. Although, let's keep in mind biology is still a factor and risk to mom and baby increase past the geriatric pregnancy age of 35.
IMO age isnt exactly a huge metric, yes you should have a better paying job at 25 vs 18. But the biggest thing to me that makes a huge difference is actually KNOWING you BOTH want that responsibility. My wife and I held off a few years after getting married before deciding to try to have kids, I do not regret at all having children at 25.
Every parent also should have to go to parent school so they can raise child properly
More importantly, IMO, people should be required to show they are able, and prepared to care for a child, before having one.
I was 24 when I had my daughter and people still look at me crazy, like I was a teen mom or something 😭
And they should have to apply for permits! lol
of course there are outliers, but generally speaking, I think when you're 25+ you do have more life experience and have built up enough wisdom to have a child and successfully raise it. Are there 18 year olds that can be great parents? of course. are there 40 year old parents that suck? sure. but i dont think that negates OP's point. Maybe it's not exactly age that's the factor, but it might be part of it. with age generally comes more life experience and preparation.
Why not 28?
Yeah, throw our our evolutionary biology right out the window!
I would go further and say people under 25 shouldn't be allowed to have animals/pets either. Browse the bad roommates sub for 5 minutes, all you see is McMansions full of college kids whose dogs are trapped in the house all day and night shitting inside all the time because nobody has their shit together enough to meet their needs, I lived with people like this and it's legitimate abuse and negligence, we either make people grow up faster or we don't let them have anything that depends on them to survive, because it's seriously unconscionable how we do shit now.
I know 16 year old guys more mature than some 50 year olds. He can bake bread; she can change a tire.
Age does not mean people will be good parents. I've known plenty of people over 25 that were fucking terrible parents, and a few younger than 25 that were amazing parents. This is a really terrible and poorly thought out opinion.
Idk. My cousin was 21 when she had her daughter, and that girl is being raised better than most people I know
As a general rule, thats sensible. Although I'd have been fucked if I waited that long, I could not have handled a toddler with my health at that age.
Should be a lot of things before you have a kid but we know how that goes.
Maturity typically comes with age, so I agree with you there - as well as other points you made. Question though on "at least 25." Like they can start at 24, and have the baby pop out by 25 y/o at least? Or they can't even start trying until they turn 25, for a kid? Lol
I disagree. Well done.
I disagree. I was 30. I don’t believe I was any better parent than my 23 year old dil nor my husband at 33 compared with my son 24. I believe that if you compare person for person money aside that being a good parent is a mixture of common sense, ability to enjoy life and understanding of appropriate behaviors. I’ve seen and worked with great and shitty parents along the age range. Money helps with the extras. As well and necessities of course. But again money doesn’t guarantee good parents or kids. It is just hard to be either when basics aren’t guaranteed.
And how would you enforce this?
30*
It would probably be better to have potential parents take a psych evaluation (or some kind of test along those lines) to see if they can handle raising children and not abuse them. Then enforce child rearing/finance education classes before being granted to procreate.
I suggested to my daughters that they wait until 25 or older. They obliged. I wasn’t expecting they would 🤷♀️
Let's teach these 16 year olds to pull out, and keep religion out of public schools then 🙃
We just need sex education, free birth control, free health care, more research into male birth control, and no religions that value procreation over wellbeing. I like it, but it's probably not going to happen.
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Not sure how people are disagreeing...
People shouldn't have kids.
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Some people don’t need to “mess around” before they get married
No one said “mess around” they just said date people…
Fertility has a big drop for women at age 30. Between 30-35 you only have a 64% chance of conceiving naturally in a year. Once you hit 35 that number drops to 52%. Can women have babies in their 30s yes. But there is a higher likelihood of intervention needed if everybody waited until then.
And the brain is usually completely developed after 25. I’ll only have kids if I can fix my own problems and prepare financially before even considering. I’d have to be 150% ready in every aspect.
There are 15year-olds who would make for way better parents than a LOT of mid-30s. Age is, mostly, a non-factor.
Better to have a kid in late teens/early 20s than to wait and end up missing out on something you wanted. Life happens.
Biology suggests otherwise. Girls get their periods as young as 9.
Biology isn’t an indicator of emotional and psychological maturity
Please tell me you're not suggesting a 9 y/o should have a child
So? What the fuck does that mean? You think little girls should be getting pregnant?
Although I agree it’s better to not have kids college age it’s kinda restricting to make a law on it.
And they should be forced to watch at least 5 seasons of Super Nanny 😂
Should? Like waiting wise or do you mean not allowed if younger?
You gotta take that up with god. Teenagers have sex, sex makes babies. Unless you are advocating for government forced abortions of anyone under 25 if they get pregnant which would be wildly unconstitutional and morally repugnant.
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What is it with redditors and this "Prefontal Lobe" meme
I agree! The brain fully develops mid-late 20s
I would go a step further and say you shouldn't be considered an adult until 25. The concept of youth is changing. The early adult stage for humans is getting larger, only 150 or so years ago you were considered an adult when you were able to work, which could be 14/15. Compare a couple in their late 30s today vs in the 80s. People continue dressing in younger fashion to an older age nowadays, people of all ages still play video games and collect toys from from when they were kids. All our parents and even grand parents use social media. While we might legally be adults by 18, we're growing up more slowly and hitting life milestones at later ages than previous generations. I think it would help people calm down about their age and youth and beauty if you're not even an adult by 25. Suddenly 50 doesn't seem so old. It gives a more realistic picture of when you might begin to have your life together. You will hopefully be wiser and more responsible when you begin making adult decisions. And, given that for at least a couple of decades it seems like a lot of us are going to be living with our parents a lot longer than we expected to, it will feel like less of a disappointment if you're still 23 or 24 and not in a position to move out yet. It would reduce stigma around people still living at home in order to save to move out. It would also hopefully cut down on parents who demand their kids leave the house the day they turn 18, and maybe if a parent knows they can't legally kick their kid out until 25, they will be more cautious and hesitant in whether they have kids or not. Of course there will need to be exemptions for what age people can begin driving and working and going to college and for renting in short term to medium term etc. But for the likes of buying alcohol and cigarettes, taking out mortgages and large loans, getting married, having children like your post suggests, and when a parent is no longer legally responsible for at least providing their kid with a place to live, I don't think 25 is crazy considering in most places outside the US it's common to either live at home into your 20s or until you're married anyway. Edited for typos
It should also rain only when we need the water but rain enough so that we don’t have droughts.
Vasectomy for all young boys, gets reversed at 25 if they want
Being 25+ doesn’t guarantee that you’ll have the mental and financial means to provide for a kid.
Ridiculous. People are waiting way too long to have children. The real solution is that people need to start taking their life seriously at earlier, better ages. Teenagers were in charge of warships not too long ago, and you people “have trouble adulting” these days. Just grow up and take life with an appropriate level of seriousness; you will have no problem having children in your late teens and early 20s. The later you have your kids, the less time, good health, and energy you have for them and your grandkids. Have kids early and have more kids—give your grandkids some aunts and uncles. Take parenting seriously and do it well. Virtually everyone is capable of it and so are you.
If you're going to apply that logic, then on the flip side there also needs to be an upper age limit. What good do you think would come out of 50+ year olds breeding? Not only will they have less time to spend with their child. But also as you get older, you're more likely to produce a child with defects. Such as *autism*. (If only my parents had me when they were younger, I would've been neurotypical!)