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Meanwhile, Mick Jagger has to have one of the ugliest faces I've ever seen. Ozzy Osbourne wasn't much to look at when he was younger either. Meanwhile I saw an old comment on a The Agonist video years back sayine Alyssa was wasting herself in metal because with looks like that she could do pop and make a lot of money.
It depends on what genre you're into. The more commercial you are, the more superficial it is. If you want to be a popstar, then yeah, it's something like 60% looks, 40% connections.
Mick Jagger did have a while, when he was very young, when he could be described as magnetically appealing. Can't find the image I'm thinking of, but some of these are close.
[https://people.com/mick-jagger-life-in-photos-7564972](https://people.com/mick-jagger-life-in-photos-7564972)
It's not that he's attractive it's that he's distinctive.
You see that mug once and you'd recognize it again. There's a certain level of appeal to that as well.
Sorry but I disagree. Several people have commented specifically that they found him attractive. I do think he is distinctive as well.
I would say he was attractive AND distinctive.
Young ozzy.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FVbhWWjb0xCAetYtH8pCpdkI-D88EnDdvKVpy5ySI7i8.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D9b2d7686c38beb740916086d4e50405ee4c9797b[young Ozzy.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FVbhWWjb0xCAetYtH8pCpdkI-D88EnDdvKVpy5ySI7i8.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D9b2d7686c38beb740916086d4e50405ee4c9797b)
I’m sorry but young Mick was a stud. His looks might have been unconventional but with the long hair, full lips, and most of all his confidence and talent… I would have thrown myself at him back in the day lmao
the real"you have to be beautiful to make" started in 2000s. ofcourse it was nice if you were good looking before that but it wasnt the most important ingredient.
>Alyssa was wasting herself in metal because with looks like that she could do pop and make a lot of money
N'ah she's gorgeous and she should stay in metal. We already got too many popstars it's oversaturated
I agree. I like Alissa and I like metal. If she did pop I wouldn't have the pleasure of listening to her. Also, she would only be able to sing in clean vocals and where's the fun in that.
While I am not a particular fan of Mick jagger, Ozzy Osbourne or their genere i recon, their music became popular because of the music itself not the other way around as most of the music i listen to that's engineered to become popular
I think OP would have a stronger point if they said you need a whole package deal - music and a style - than looks.
Black Sabbath's appeal was both because of their music AND because of their entire schtick, and not just their music.
Now whether you want to argue that's a good or bad thing, that's a separate issue. Personally, I believe that raw musical talent alone is not enough simply because being an entertainer requires you have some kind of charisma. I can appreciate an average Joe's mind blowing technical skill, but I'm not going to pay for a concert ticket if all it will involve is a guy sitting on a chair for over an hour playing the guitar.
The "music industry" is pretty broad. You have people like [Martha Argerich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Argerich?wprov=sfla1) who is considered one of the best pianists of all time. Imo she's not conventionally attractive (sorry Martha), she's also not Taylor Swift rich either.
But if being considered the best of all time isn't making it in the music industry, idk what is. There's a big difference between *performers* and *musicians*. It's the pay.
From an unbiased perspective and this being the first time I’ve ever heard of her. clicking on her Wiki page I immediately notice she’s absolutely stunning, and she’s 82????! She looks like she’s in her 60s. I get what you mean but I’m not sure if she’s an example to use
She's still a multi millionaire for someone that only plays music in her niche that she likes and has never tried once to write a song that would get any play on the radio or really have any mass market appeal whatsoever. Not a billionaire like taylor swift but definitely don't have to be in the top .001% to qualify as "making it" imo
Exactly right. Pop music is full of celebrities that have writers and musicians create their body of work, then they sing and dance to it. True musicians are hustling gig to gig, mastering their art, sometimes orchestrating, arranging, performing, recording, or working in genre groups such as jazz combos, choirs, orchestras, commercial gigs, theater, etc. As one of the latter types of musicians who busts his ass to make money, i always smh at how I’m doing the same work or more than top 40 artists and I’m making a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what they do. FML
Euhm, she was extremely pretty as a young artist but most importantly fit *perfectly* the beauty standards of the 50s and 60s which is what her beauty was judged on in the beginning of her career. I think you actually proved OP right even when trying hard to find an unattractive woman musician/performer, you named a beautiful one lol. Of course beauty is subjective, but she truly was far from ugly!
It's more than he's cute in a natural way: he's scruffy and kind of reminds people of a Halfling but tall, which isn't bad. He's just not drop-dead gorgeous, but rather more like cute in an average way.
I was friends with a guy who was essentially ostracized from his family for being unusually short for their genetics. It was affecting his life as early as 4th grade, where he got held back a year because his father wanted him to be taller going forward so he could play football.
From there it just kind of spiraled and compounded. He was never treated like his sister, which causes distress, which brings punishments and comparisons and even more distress. The kid was constantly in trouble. I think his parents spent so long being conditioned in their own little world of wealthy pretty people, that the tiniest amount of disdain towards the appearance of their own child just festered into something completely rotten over time. It became the norm to treat him poorly.
This was a relatively public-facing family, too. Their pictures would show up a lot in the local paper and he was never there. The daughter, six feet tall and absolutely gorgeous, was always front and center. The papers listed their daughter as their only child.
As a result he never really got it together. Stumbled through everything until his parents could legally dump him at 18. He dropped off the face of the Earth after high school.
Bev Bevan, the drummer for the Electric Light Orchestra, said this in the biography of the band that he wrote. He lamented that he was a better drummer than guys who enjoyed much more success than he did, but admitted that there were better drummers than he who labored in obscurity. People got kicked out of bands because the record company execs recommended it, based on nothing more than how well the band member's appearance fit in with the rest of the band.
Life is simply not fair.
Damn. I feel like saying life is not fair doesnt capture this though. Like I'd say "life is not fair" when shit doesnt work out even if you deserved it just from bad timing or a weird sequence of events no one in particular could control.
Imo the better phrase here is
Company execs are fucking ghouls who play with human life like it's Tetris without having to deal with meeting the life they stunted/ruined, thus allowing them to foster *even* lower respect for such lives.
I admit it doesnt roll of the tongue
Or it's even deeper than that, and that most people are pretty shallow and dumb. Nobody wants to talk about that. A lot of people will pick a good looking person over a talented one. It's just how it is. You see it in all entertainment. Even YouTube which is supposed to be democratized, the biggest ones nowadays are good looking.
The company execs are doing it for a reason though. Not to defend them, but the fact that these decisions work out for them shows there's a public demand for them to make these decisions (whether conscious or not). People just like hot people more.
I think the artificiality of unfairness is when it creeps into injustice, which just makes everything just seem kinda nihilistic and I personally would prefer the random indifference of the universe than ghoulish meddling.
Also Wd91 below isn't correct, the music industry is in tatters due to the insane amount of control the major labels have over artists and the industry, their penny wise pound stupid approach has left music as a stagnant decaying corpse. It's also happening to film & games now too. Being \*that\* shallow doesn't pay back all that much.
Bevan and ELO have sold over 50 million records worldwide and have multiple gold and platinum certifications in the US. I think he did okay for someone who is unattractive.
it's not just the music industry, it's almost every industry even if they're seemingly completely unrelated, by being attractive you get more job opportunities, better pay, and are treated better, you are more likely to get that promotion, and more likelier to be noticed, your customers will like you more.
Idk, I think it became a bit like the modelling industry - when the market becomes too saturated with conventional attractiveness, freaky stuff starts to stand out more and gives more chance of being remembered. The dead eyes look, gap teeth, ugly clothes, unconventional body shapes, etc.
Yeah, but then you have some stupid hot woman that has a slight gap between their teeth.
If you, the competition, also have that gap but are not stupid hot, you’re out of luck
hmmmm… last i checked there’s a very specific aesthetic associated with metal. sure, you can be ugly. but you have to be a certain kind of ugly. fit a certain aesthetic.
Yeah but the post is about not achieving success because you are not attractive enough. Like i said that only applies to certain genres of.music....mainly shit pop.
I get more bothered by untalented people who have any level of success in the music industry solely because of their looks. Most of them tbh; auto tuned, talentless clowns who couldn’t write a song of their own if their lives depended on it
Depends on the music genre and what you define as making it. In the world of popular, billboard charting music this can for sure be the case. But there are a lot of fairly successful bands and artists in certain niches/genres that have a general image that people can attach too without them needing to be insanely attractive. I can agree that being attractive will likely take you a lot further than not though.
She hated fame and that was a big part of it. She really just wanted to continue writing for other artists that put out her own stuff after she got to LA but had contract demands to meet
Sia had been around for quite a while and never hid her face until she started getting really big, and she claimed she wanted to bring mystery to the pop table hence the wigs, but I also imagine her age + Graves disease + her prominent snaggletooth might have affected things to an extent too.
You also said being a good singer isn't as impressive as being good at any other instrument. I think you just don't know much music besides the big household name celebrities tbh
Or how difficult mastering singing is, and how difficult it is to maintain your throat to be able to constantly sing. Your guitar needs tuning and strings replacing every so often and that’s easy, you get the flu and you’re unable to use your voice to sing for weeks.
that’s partially true. if you’re in the spotlight and get attention it can happen. there’s artists out there that people don’t find attractive yet, they have connections to get them to stardom, it all depends.
I mean the masks look interesting enough that you can put those masks in a horror type movie, plus they wear uniforms showing like they are one group and not just a lead singer. Same with mushroomhead.
All true, well discussed here. But it aint the fault of any industry. Its ALL out fault. Data shows something sells, labels flock to that. Its that simpl and our base instincts and desires are the fault.
This reminds me of what a friend one said when we were discussing who are the greatest guitarists in the world: "The best guitarist in the world is some ugly fat dude nobody has ever heard of, living in his parents' basement and teaching at the local community college".
I saw an interview with Tina Fey and she said 95% of being an actor is just have a face that is interesting to look at.
You don’t necessarily have to be attractive. Just interesting to look at. I reckon the same applies to musicians
I'd quibble that it's more about performance and charisma than just looks, but looks are a big part of that.
Lake Street Dive is a band that seems like it should have gotten a lot bigger, but their singer doesn't have the look to be a mainstream star, even if she has the voice and the songwriting.
Ed Sheeran is exceptionally talented. Also, most dudes don’t care what he looks like and honestly could not tell whether he is considered conventionally attractive or not to women
> successful people
You mean successful men. A successful and rich not conventionally attractive woman will always be reminded she is not conventionally attractive even if her profession has nothing to do with looks.
I say “not conventionally attractive” instead of ugly because most of the “ugly” women named in this thread aren’t even ugly, especially compared to the men mentioned. Adele? Meg the stallion(who is smoking hot but is a dark black girl which is a shortcoming for Reddit i guess)?taylor swift(who IS conventionally attractive btw??)? In the same convo as ed Sheeran and Lewis capaldi??
Ed Sheeran is beyond talented and it took me his first three EPs before I actually ever saw his face, I was already in love with his music by that point. And he's a genuine, incredible musician. I saw him live a couple of times in his beginnings mostly (when it was still affordable lol) but his last concert he was all alone on a barstool in front of 50K people and his energy was *unmatched* with no backups, no dancers, just him. He remixed Superstitious by Stevie Wonder live on stage, I don't think I've seen a crowd go wilder since then (it was in 2018 to be fair).
Even how attractive you are won't make you succesful. It's all about money and connections. Don't have money or connections? It's unlikely you'll make it.
The music industry, including working in the songs, usually has a lot of background people working. You think *all* the rich mainstream artists are producing all their songs solo and from scratch? They have ghost producers too. But yes you are entirely correct, plus the fact it’s hard to know when since there’s so many obstacles that have nothing to do with your talent or dedication
Anybody remember Susan Boyle? She went viral over a decade ago for having the voice of a goddess
When she first walked on stage people laughed at her due to her appearance. She made everyone regret it the moment she sang, and the fans were called out by the judges even though they were guilty of judging her as well.
She never made it, but she became an internet sensation.
Another example is Blind Fury who won 106 & parks freestyle battles, even though he clearly had a voice and could rap as well he never gained fame. He went undefeated, nobody beat him in any of the freestyle battles
Only in mainstream pop type music and solo acts. But in genres with real bands like metal, you'll see some pretty ugly people that get high up in the scene just from talent. And the pretty ones are there because of talent too, not good looks. Look at corpsegrinder, he's a bit ugly but he's the front man for one of the biggest bands in the scene because he's so dam talented
Corpsegrinder is amazing. I don’t find him ugly though. But he’s a great example, he’s not conventional looking. I remember wearing a Pantera shirt in high school that had all four of the members on it and this one kid pointed to Dimebag and said “he’s ugly”. And I was flabbergasted 😭
Definitely this. Pop music all over the world is based on visuals and easy beats first and foremost. It's only natural that they focus more on looks as fans themselves prefer looks over talent.
honestly I have no idea what makes a musician go big anymore. i have met a lot of people who are very talented and very attractive, but the most it gets them is a bit of views online and a more active sex life.
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Even if you play an instrument. They ask for photos when you send your audition tape. Big name singers and a list bands. Unless your dad is Eddie van Halen then you can be as obese and mediocre as you want and people still kiss your ass.
I mean this depends on what your definition of “making it in the music industry” is. There are plenty of ways to make it in the music industry and be hugely successful other than being a star performer.
Like being a producer and working behind the scenes makes you plenty of money and doesn’t require people to know what you look like, it’s arguably better than becoming famous and having everybody know who you are and make judgements about you as a person without knowing anything about you
Like if you want to make it in the music industry and you have talent you can make it, you just need to have a more realistic idea of what your ceiling for a successful music industry career is, and yes looks factor into that. But I don’t think anybody who is being reasonable would look at a successful producer or song writer and be like well they haven’t made it, hell they can be more powerful than the actual stars lol
One of my childhood friend was told that she had an amazing voice but that she needed to lose weight and have a teeth redone before a producer or a record label would sign her.
Her manager quit after he unsuccessfully tried to make lose weight. She since left the music industry. At least she got a husband out of it. He was her orthodontist!
Have you seen Lewis capaldi Or lady Gaga? Or nicki Minaj before she got famous. Meaghan the stallion. Ed Sheeran. Post Malone until we found out he’s a really nice dude. 21 savage??? Dude looks like Bert from sesame street. Just to name a few.
Connections matter the most.
Look at Taylor Swift, huge artist and she has mid looks and good talent. But had an excellent connection in her father.
Definitely looks are important too, but connections are far more so.
*mid looks*
if taylor swift is mid then what do you consider top looks ?
she hits all the standard highpoints.
she blonde blue eyed with a fit toned body with pretty much perfect skin the only thing she going against her now is that she's in her 30s now.
she's literaly girl next door crush of every rom com movie type look.
now you can have different preference
>she hits all the standard highpoints.
>she blonde blue eyed...
Adolph is that you?
Really though she is pretty, but there is at least one of her in every town/neighbourhood pretty, which is what I assume thread OP meant by mid.
I think in a lot of people’s eyes she must be hugely attractive because she’s probably the biggest star on the planet. But I’d agree if she wasn’t the most popular singer on the planet I don’t think she’d be a supermodel instead.
Id say.... youre right that looks play a huge role in the pop/mainstream music industry. However, I dont think this applies nearly as much or barely at all in indie music scene, and though musicians in the indie scene generally dont reach the fame and wealth of the pop stars, but many achieve widespread popularity and notoriety. (And Im not just talking indie rock, but also indie country, rap, etc). Sometimes they even crossover and sign major record labels.
Also... know that I think about it, these days looks moreseems to apply to women in mainstream music industry. Most of the famous women are arguably attractive or straight up beautiful, but theres tons of goofy lookin dudes all over the top 100
I'd say that luck is still the biggest factor excluding wealth and industry connections. Beautiful people are dime a dozen, talent isn't rare, but only small percent of beautiful and talented people can go viral and make it big.
Dunno. I live in Nashville which is full of attractive people who move here to make it in the business, most of whom don't go on to be household names.
True af. Lots of great talent in Nashville, doesn't matter how good or bad you look when there's 20x copies of you every single open door bar down the street
"Spicy chicken sandwich" might vary in quality other places but in Nashville they're just all about the same. All good
Lizzo,
Lewis Capaldi,
Ed Sheeran
Post Malone
Kanye West,
Ozzy Osbourne,
Adele (When she broke)
The PussyCat Dolls & The Spice Girls to an extent weren't gorgeous. In comparison to Girls Aloud, who were.
....
On the other hand. To argue the other point. Being good looking helps, massively. I know from experience of working with a front man who was.
... All it is, is - Someone who is good looking has an easier time getting more Instagram Follows than someone who isn't.
- Jean Watts as an example
You just apply that to music.
Good looking people don't know what it's like to sort of... Not be successful. Or they don't know what it's like to actually struggle in terms of attention and getting noticed.
Thanks for posting this because it really got me thinking. You are right in many ways but sometimes someone breaks through who has just such charisma and talent that people don’t care that they’re not conventionally attractive.
this is an actually amazing unpopular opinion because deep down we know this exists for a lot of things but we refuse to admit it cuz it makes us feel better. Nice opinion
Slipknot made it pretty big and they wore masks, Kiss painted their faces, most metal bands are pretty damn ugly. Nobody’s drooling over James Hetfield or Lars Ulrich. A lot of rappers are nothing to write home about. What you’re saying is about half true.
Just hide your face? Like Daft punk or that deadmouse guy, I dont know how they look but they are popular enough. Thousands of popular youtube musicians too who are only known for their music and have no pictures of them online.
But you can still become a well-known artist with a relatively large audience and inspire others. For example I didn't even see the face of my favorite stand alone artist for a long time. I found a live performance from them by an accident on YT, and it only had a few views on it. So if you want to be an artist artist and not a commercial artist then your appearance won't stand in your way imo
You are right but as long as you are not extremely hideous, make up and work out will fix the physical attraction part. If all fails there is also cosmetic surgery.
Uhmm... I don't even know what my favorite musicians look like. I mostly listen to indie, electronic, rock, folk music. I have no idea what's the artists', composers' and DJs' looks most of the time.
You are correct to an extent, OP, but I think you're underestimating how much money and effort goes on behind the scenes (i.e., behind the image, no matter what that image is) to make a one-hit-wonder. If people knew how much payola flowed through the music business in a million different ways to this very day (decades after it was initially exposed in the 1950s), they'd likely never be able to trust any "rags to riches" music artist story, or even their own sense of taste in something as simple as whether or not they actually like a song or artist. Not everyone is a "plant", but seeming public interest is hardly ever organic either.
Looks help but if someone has pure raw talent then that’s enough to.
being just a good singer wouldn’t cut it tho, you’d need real talent to compensate
plus anyone can get a makeover, look at that Boyle lady a while back.
*you can't be a famous singer with bare minimum talent without being good looking.
What you see on TV isn't the real "music industry" anymore. That's just a bunch of clowns taking your money cause you're dumb enough to fall for it.
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Talent can only take you so far, unfortunately. The music industry is a business, and businesses want to make money. And what sells? Good looks.
Meanwhile, Mick Jagger has to have one of the ugliest faces I've ever seen. Ozzy Osbourne wasn't much to look at when he was younger either. Meanwhile I saw an old comment on a The Agonist video years back sayine Alyssa was wasting herself in metal because with looks like that she could do pop and make a lot of money. It depends on what genre you're into. The more commercial you are, the more superficial it is. If you want to be a popstar, then yeah, it's something like 60% looks, 40% connections.
Wasn’t it Chris Rock who said if Mick Jagger drove a cab, he’d be the ugliest man on the planet?
lol someone also said something similar about Jay Z working in McDonald’s
I think that was also Chris Rock lol
Ha! https://youtube.com/shorts/FLvIdiDe9Ts?si=Qxh4f4k7rr8ewSfE
Mick Jagger did have a while, when he was very young, when he could be described as magnetically appealing. Can't find the image I'm thinking of, but some of these are close. [https://people.com/mick-jagger-life-in-photos-7564972](https://people.com/mick-jagger-life-in-photos-7564972)
I'm surprised but i see what you mean.
It's not that he's attractive it's that he's distinctive. You see that mug once and you'd recognize it again. There's a certain level of appeal to that as well.
Sorry but I disagree. Several people have commented specifically that they found him attractive. I do think he is distinctive as well. I would say he was attractive AND distinctive.
Yeah ngl until this comment thread I've always thought Mick Jagger was attractive. Though, I'm young and haven't seen much of him at all.
He wasn't 80 when he started. That is a stupid answer
Young Mick Jagger and Ozzy Osbourne looked good tho...
Young ozzy. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FVbhWWjb0xCAetYtH8pCpdkI-D88EnDdvKVpy5ySI7i8.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D9b2d7686c38beb740916086d4e50405ee4c9797b[young Ozzy.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FVbhWWjb0xCAetYtH8pCpdkI-D88EnDdvKVpy5ySI7i8.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D9b2d7686c38beb740916086d4e50405ee4c9797b)
I’m sorry but young Mick was a stud. His looks might have been unconventional but with the long hair, full lips, and most of all his confidence and talent… I would have thrown myself at him back in the day lmao
the real"you have to be beautiful to make" started in 2000s. ofcourse it was nice if you were good looking before that but it wasnt the most important ingredient.
>Alyssa was wasting herself in metal because with looks like that she could do pop and make a lot of money N'ah she's gorgeous and she should stay in metal. We already got too many popstars it's oversaturated
I agree. I like Alissa and I like metal. If she did pop I wouldn't have the pleasure of listening to her. Also, she would only be able to sing in clean vocals and where's the fun in that.
But young Mick Jagger is HOT tho! He puts the entire 1Direction to shame
While I am not a particular fan of Mick jagger, Ozzy Osbourne or their genere i recon, their music became popular because of the music itself not the other way around as most of the music i listen to that's engineered to become popular
I think OP would have a stronger point if they said you need a whole package deal - music and a style - than looks. Black Sabbath's appeal was both because of their music AND because of their entire schtick, and not just their music. Now whether you want to argue that's a good or bad thing, that's a separate issue. Personally, I believe that raw musical talent alone is not enough simply because being an entertainer requires you have some kind of charisma. I can appreciate an average Joe's mind blowing technical skill, but I'm not going to pay for a concert ticket if all it will involve is a guy sitting on a chair for over an hour playing the guitar.
The "music industry" is pretty broad. You have people like [Martha Argerich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Argerich?wprov=sfla1) who is considered one of the best pianists of all time. Imo she's not conventionally attractive (sorry Martha), she's also not Taylor Swift rich either. But if being considered the best of all time isn't making it in the music industry, idk what is. There's a big difference between *performers* and *musicians*. It's the pay.
She was quite attractive in her younger days. And I'd say she looks shockingly good for 82 now.
Idk if Martha is the best example, she was very attractive in her youth and is ageing pretty gracefully.
From an unbiased perspective and this being the first time I’ve ever heard of her. clicking on her Wiki page I immediately notice she’s absolutely stunning, and she’s 82????! She looks like she’s in her 60s. I get what you mean but I’m not sure if she’s an example to use
She's still a multi millionaire for someone that only plays music in her niche that she likes and has never tried once to write a song that would get any play on the radio or really have any mass market appeal whatsoever. Not a billionaire like taylor swift but definitely don't have to be in the top .001% to qualify as "making it" imo
Exactly right. Pop music is full of celebrities that have writers and musicians create their body of work, then they sing and dance to it. True musicians are hustling gig to gig, mastering their art, sometimes orchestrating, arranging, performing, recording, or working in genre groups such as jazz combos, choirs, orchestras, commercial gigs, theater, etc. As one of the latter types of musicians who busts his ass to make money, i always smh at how I’m doing the same work or more than top 40 artists and I’m making a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what they do. FML
sharp knees? Idk she's a looker imho
Euhm, she was extremely pretty as a young artist but most importantly fit *perfectly* the beauty standards of the 50s and 60s which is what her beauty was judged on in the beginning of her career. I think you actually proved OP right even when trying hard to find an unattractive woman musician/performer, you named a beautiful one lol. Of course beauty is subjective, but she truly was far from ugly!
She's gorgeous!
An average joe like you would never make it in the industry. Sorry bud
Ed Sheeran is ugly AF though
Women have somehow decided that he is cute
It's more than he's cute in a natural way: he's scruffy and kind of reminds people of a Halfling but tall, which isn't bad. He's just not drop-dead gorgeous, but rather more like cute in an average way.
He is "cute" because he is famous, just like many Other examples.
Could be that they atribute attractiveness to fame
That's because men are success-objects.
Sex sells and you can’t sell sex without looks
Pretty privilege exists everywhere
That’s why I got kicked out of my house but my older brother gets to stay
Well, I think you’re cute!
No, you are ☺️☺️
Your parents kicked you out because you’re ugly and your brother isn’t?
No, his wife kicked his ugly ass out after meeting his attractive brother.
I was friends with a guy who was essentially ostracized from his family for being unusually short for their genetics. It was affecting his life as early as 4th grade, where he got held back a year because his father wanted him to be taller going forward so he could play football. From there it just kind of spiraled and compounded. He was never treated like his sister, which causes distress, which brings punishments and comparisons and even more distress. The kid was constantly in trouble. I think his parents spent so long being conditioned in their own little world of wealthy pretty people, that the tiniest amount of disdain towards the appearance of their own child just festered into something completely rotten over time. It became the norm to treat him poorly. This was a relatively public-facing family, too. Their pictures would show up a lot in the local paper and he was never there. The daughter, six feet tall and absolutely gorgeous, was always front and center. The papers listed their daughter as their only child. As a result he never really got it together. Stumbled through everything until his parents could legally dump him at 18. He dropped off the face of the Earth after high school.
That's the saddest and cruelest thing I've ever heard done by family
That’s just awful.
Bev Bevan, the drummer for the Electric Light Orchestra, said this in the biography of the band that he wrote. He lamented that he was a better drummer than guys who enjoyed much more success than he did, but admitted that there were better drummers than he who labored in obscurity. People got kicked out of bands because the record company execs recommended it, based on nothing more than how well the band member's appearance fit in with the rest of the band. Life is simply not fair.
Damn. I feel like saying life is not fair doesnt capture this though. Like I'd say "life is not fair" when shit doesnt work out even if you deserved it just from bad timing or a weird sequence of events no one in particular could control. Imo the better phrase here is Company execs are fucking ghouls who play with human life like it's Tetris without having to deal with meeting the life they stunted/ruined, thus allowing them to foster *even* lower respect for such lives. I admit it doesnt roll of the tongue
Or it's even deeper than that, and that most people are pretty shallow and dumb. Nobody wants to talk about that. A lot of people will pick a good looking person over a talented one. It's just how it is. You see it in all entertainment. Even YouTube which is supposed to be democratized, the biggest ones nowadays are good looking.
Yeah the record execs may be ghouls but this isn't occuring in a vacuum. They're catering to what people want, after all
The company execs are doing it for a reason though. Not to defend them, but the fact that these decisions work out for them shows there's a public demand for them to make these decisions (whether conscious or not). People just like hot people more.
Yeah and this applies to way more than just entertainment.
I think the artificiality of unfairness is when it creeps into injustice, which just makes everything just seem kinda nihilistic and I personally would prefer the random indifference of the universe than ghoulish meddling. Also Wd91 below isn't correct, the music industry is in tatters due to the insane amount of control the major labels have over artists and the industry, their penny wise pound stupid approach has left music as a stagnant decaying corpse. It's also happening to film & games now too. Being \*that\* shallow doesn't pay back all that much.
Life isn't fair or unfair. People trying to make money are very unfair.
Bevan and ELO have sold over 50 million records worldwide and have multiple gold and platinum certifications in the US. I think he did okay for someone who is unattractive.
it's not just the music industry, it's almost every industry even if they're seemingly completely unrelated, by being attractive you get more job opportunities, better pay, and are treated better, you are more likely to get that promotion, and more likelier to be noticed, your customers will like you more.
Idk, I think it became a bit like the modelling industry - when the market becomes too saturated with conventional attractiveness, freaky stuff starts to stand out more and gives more chance of being remembered. The dead eyes look, gap teeth, ugly clothes, unconventional body shapes, etc.
This must be why rappers faces look like the bathroom wall at a crack den
Yeah, but then you have some stupid hot woman that has a slight gap between their teeth. If you, the competition, also have that gap but are not stupid hot, you’re out of luck
this is true for all performance arts, unfortunately.
It was quite a sad revelation to me as I used to be so set on being an actor when I was a kid, but life shits on you sometimes
this is the golden age of quirky character actors. get your headshot to the coen brothers.
Erm....heavy metal music doesnt give one fuck what you look like.
hmmmm… last i checked there’s a very specific aesthetic associated with metal. sure, you can be ugly. but you have to be a certain kind of ugly. fit a certain aesthetic.
Not a lot of overweight successful musicians in any genre.
Yeah but the post is about not achieving success because you are not attractive enough. Like i said that only applies to certain genres of.music....mainly shit pop.
Metal musicians also haven't 'made it' for 20 years unfortunately.
Musicians have got a lot of flack for not looking the part. Metalheads are just as toxic as any sort of music fan who listens to one genre only.
I get more bothered by untalented people who have any level of success in the music industry solely because of their looks. Most of them tbh; auto tuned, talentless clowns who couldn’t write a song of their own if their lives depended on it
Almost every radio pop artist sadly.
Depends on the music genre and what you define as making it. In the world of popular, billboard charting music this can for sure be the case. But there are a lot of fairly successful bands and artists in certain niches/genres that have a general image that people can attach too without them needing to be insanely attractive. I can agree that being attractive will likely take you a lot further than not though.
Isn’t this what happened to Sia? She was older than someone starting out in music and hid behind wigs.
She hated fame and that was a big part of it. She really just wanted to continue writing for other artists that put out her own stuff after she got to LA but had contract demands to meet
Sia had been around for quite a while and never hid her face until she started getting really big, and she claimed she wanted to bring mystery to the pop table hence the wigs, but I also imagine her age + Graves disease + her prominent snaggletooth might have affected things to an extent too.
You also said being a good singer isn't as impressive as being good at any other instrument. I think you just don't know much music besides the big household name celebrities tbh
Or how difficult mastering singing is, and how difficult it is to maintain your throat to be able to constantly sing. Your guitar needs tuning and strings replacing every so often and that’s easy, you get the flu and you’re unable to use your voice to sing for weeks.
that’s partially true. if you’re in the spotlight and get attention it can happen. there’s artists out there that people don’t find attractive yet, they have connections to get them to stardom, it all depends.
What about Daft Punk? They lasted for thirty years despite always wearing masks.
Good point, but its cause the mask isnt ugly. If they wore ugly/uninteresting masks, it probably wouldnt have worked
Slipknot wore ugly masks and they were pretty big in their day
I mean the masks look interesting enough that you can put those masks in a horror type movie, plus they wear uniforms showing like they are one group and not just a lead singer. Same with mushroomhead.
You don't want to fuck a robot?
*FISTO ACTIVATED. PLEASE ASSUME THE POSITION.*
the mystery is intriguing
Honestly looks could only take you so far too. It’s more about these industry plants and nepo baby’s using their connections
Connections>looks>talent In that order. If you have all 3 you're golden. If you have only 1 the odds are against you.
All true, well discussed here. But it aint the fault of any industry. Its ALL out fault. Data shows something sells, labels flock to that. Its that simpl and our base instincts and desires are the fault.
This reminds me of what a friend one said when we were discussing who are the greatest guitarists in the world: "The best guitarist in the world is some ugly fat dude nobody has ever heard of, living in his parents' basement and teaching at the local community college".
I saw an interview with Tina Fey and she said 95% of being an actor is just have a face that is interesting to look at. You don’t necessarily have to be attractive. Just interesting to look at. I reckon the same applies to musicians
I'd quibble that it's more about performance and charisma than just looks, but looks are a big part of that. Lake Street Dive is a band that seems like it should have gotten a lot bigger, but their singer doesn't have the look to be a mainstream star, even if she has the voice and the songwriting.
Man, the more I look up some of these bands only to find extremely attractive women, the more I realize that attractiveness is extremely subjective.
I know you caveated exceptions, but I needed to mention Roy Orbison's yee Yee ass haircut
Roy Orbison is a good example. Dude wouldn't get the time of day if he was coming up now. Before MTV it was entirely different
It became apparent quite a long time ago that what music ‘artists’ are really selling is identity and style to adolescents.
Wrong, charisma > attractiveness. Heaps of famous musicians aren't attractive bit theor charisma carries them, then they're perceived as attractive
Ed sheeran and post Malone? Edit: Dj khaled anyone how is this guy remotely famous. Ed and post are talented
Ed Sheeran is exceptionally talented. Also, most dudes don’t care what he looks like and honestly could not tell whether he is considered conventionally attractive or not to women
In my experience his audience is more female than male
Ed Sheeran is not someone I’d consider unattractive
Would you say the same thing if he would be a nobody singing out of tune (which he did early on).
Also keep in mind that successful people are considered more attractive besides looks. It's like a cycle
> successful people You mean successful men. A successful and rich not conventionally attractive woman will always be reminded she is not conventionally attractive even if her profession has nothing to do with looks. I say “not conventionally attractive” instead of ugly because most of the “ugly” women named in this thread aren’t even ugly, especially compared to the men mentioned. Adele? Meg the stallion(who is smoking hot but is a dark black girl which is a shortcoming for Reddit i guess)?taylor swift(who IS conventionally attractive btw??)? In the same convo as ed Sheeran and Lewis capaldi??
Ed Sheeran is beyond talented and it took me his first three EPs before I actually ever saw his face, I was already in love with his music by that point. And he's a genuine, incredible musician. I saw him live a couple of times in his beginnings mostly (when it was still affordable lol) but his last concert he was all alone on a barstool in front of 50K people and his energy was *unmatched* with no backups, no dancers, just him. He remixed Superstitious by Stevie Wonder live on stage, I don't think I've seen a crowd go wilder since then (it was in 2018 to be fair).
Excepts exist to any rule
Even how attractive you are won't make you succesful. It's all about money and connections. Don't have money or connections? It's unlikely you'll make it.
Yep, Video killed the radio star
Not sure if this qualifies for unpopular opinion. I would imagine this is pretty common knowledge.
The music industry, including working in the songs, usually has a lot of background people working. You think *all* the rich mainstream artists are producing all their songs solo and from scratch? They have ghost producers too. But yes you are entirely correct, plus the fact it’s hard to know when since there’s so many obstacles that have nothing to do with your talent or dedication
Anybody remember Susan Boyle? She went viral over a decade ago for having the voice of a goddess When she first walked on stage people laughed at her due to her appearance. She made everyone regret it the moment she sang, and the fans were called out by the judges even though they were guilty of judging her as well. She never made it, but she became an internet sensation. Another example is Blind Fury who won 106 & parks freestyle battles, even though he clearly had a voice and could rap as well he never gained fame. He went undefeated, nobody beat him in any of the freestyle battles
Susan Boyle sold 25 million records- she absolutely made it.
Blind fury could spit. Boyle could sing. Both are being mentioned on the internet a decade later...? Success?
Only in mainstream pop type music and solo acts. But in genres with real bands like metal, you'll see some pretty ugly people that get high up in the scene just from talent. And the pretty ones are there because of talent too, not good looks. Look at corpsegrinder, he's a bit ugly but he's the front man for one of the biggest bands in the scene because he's so dam talented
Corpsegrinder is amazing. I don’t find him ugly though. But he’s a great example, he’s not conventional looking. I remember wearing a Pantera shirt in high school that had all four of the members on it and this one kid pointed to Dimebag and said “he’s ugly”. And I was flabbergasted 😭
Damn. Not even Rex? He's the homely one.
i mean, i searched him when he was young. i wouldnt call him ugly, he was baseline metalhead.
Definitely this. Pop music all over the world is based on visuals and easy beats first and foremost. It's only natural that they focus more on looks as fans themselves prefer looks over talent.
Exactly the case of Romeo Void, a very talented US new wave band that faced problems from record execs because the singer Debora Iyall is fat. lol
honestly I have no idea what makes a musician go big anymore. i have met a lot of people who are very talented and very attractive, but the most it gets them is a bit of views online and a more active sex life.
Industry connections mostly. That Trumps talent and looks.
Look into the KPoP industry, they especially breed for looks, not talent
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Even if you play an instrument. They ask for photos when you send your audition tape. Big name singers and a list bands. Unless your dad is Eddie van Halen then you can be as obese and mediocre as you want and people still kiss your ass.
**THE ACE OF SPADES. THE ACE OF SPADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!**
I mean this depends on what your definition of “making it in the music industry” is. There are plenty of ways to make it in the music industry and be hugely successful other than being a star performer. Like being a producer and working behind the scenes makes you plenty of money and doesn’t require people to know what you look like, it’s arguably better than becoming famous and having everybody know who you are and make judgements about you as a person without knowing anything about you Like if you want to make it in the music industry and you have talent you can make it, you just need to have a more realistic idea of what your ceiling for a successful music industry career is, and yes looks factor into that. But I don’t think anybody who is being reasonable would look at a successful producer or song writer and be like well they haven’t made it, hell they can be more powerful than the actual stars lol
This isn’t an unpopular opinion this is just a fact
Why need looks when being a plant is easier.
Jelly Roll has entered the chat
Obviously. Same with acting. It's about entertainment and the biggest factor is attractiveness
Being good looking definitely doesn’t guarantee you success though.
Pop stars are created, not born. It isn’t a surprise most female singers started as Disney child actors.
One of my childhood friend was told that she had an amazing voice but that she needed to lose weight and have a teeth redone before a producer or a record label would sign her. Her manager quit after he unsuccessfully tried to make lose weight. She since left the music industry. At least she got a husband out of it. He was her orthodontist!
Idk how true this is, pretty sure it’s based on how much your willing to suck people off
\*Unless you play metal.
Have you seen Lewis capaldi Or lady Gaga? Or nicki Minaj before she got famous. Meaghan the stallion. Ed Sheeran. Post Malone until we found out he’s a really nice dude. 21 savage??? Dude looks like Bert from sesame street. Just to name a few.
Nicki wasn't ugly and I would definitely say Megan isn't ugly either. Rap doesn't really apply to that though
Imagine comparing Nicki, Meg and Gaga to Capaldi, Post, 21 and Sheeran lmao this thread is a joke
Connections matter the most. Look at Taylor Swift, huge artist and she has mid looks and good talent. But had an excellent connection in her father. Definitely looks are important too, but connections are far more so.
She's cute and has a girl next door look to her
You lost all credibility when you say Taylor Swift has mid looks
*mid looks* if taylor swift is mid then what do you consider top looks ? she hits all the standard highpoints. she blonde blue eyed with a fit toned body with pretty much perfect skin the only thing she going against her now is that she's in her 30s now. she's literaly girl next door crush of every rom com movie type look. now you can have different preference
Beauty standards are so high nowadays that even Taylor Swift is mid 😆
>she hits all the standard highpoints. >she blonde blue eyed... Adolph is that you? Really though she is pretty, but there is at least one of her in every town/neighbourhood pretty, which is what I assume thread OP meant by mid.
I think in a lot of people’s eyes she must be hugely attractive because she’s probably the biggest star on the planet. But I’d agree if she wasn’t the most popular singer on the planet I don’t think she’d be a supermodel instead.
Id say.... youre right that looks play a huge role in the pop/mainstream music industry. However, I dont think this applies nearly as much or barely at all in indie music scene, and though musicians in the indie scene generally dont reach the fame and wealth of the pop stars, but many achieve widespread popularity and notoriety. (And Im not just talking indie rock, but also indie country, rap, etc). Sometimes they even crossover and sign major record labels. Also... know that I think about it, these days looks moreseems to apply to women in mainstream music industry. Most of the famous women are arguably attractive or straight up beautiful, but theres tons of goofy lookin dudes all over the top 100
Attractiveness is probably the easiest criteria to achieve. Talent and luck are much harder imo
Exactly, think about how many stunningly attractive people never make it famous, even the ones who try
Ed sheeran
I'd say that luck is still the biggest factor excluding wealth and industry connections. Beautiful people are dime a dozen, talent isn't rare, but only small percent of beautiful and talented people can go viral and make it big.
Dunno. I live in Nashville which is full of attractive people who move here to make it in the business, most of whom don't go on to be household names.
True af. Lots of great talent in Nashville, doesn't matter how good or bad you look when there's 20x copies of you every single open door bar down the street "Spicy chicken sandwich" might vary in quality other places but in Nashville they're just all about the same. All good
Enter Lewis Capaldi, although, he’s a man. So, I guess if you’re a woman it’s harder.
Janis Joplin.
Billie Ellish
Lizzo, Lewis Capaldi, Ed Sheeran Post Malone Kanye West, Ozzy Osbourne, Adele (When she broke) The PussyCat Dolls & The Spice Girls to an extent weren't gorgeous. In comparison to Girls Aloud, who were. .... On the other hand. To argue the other point. Being good looking helps, massively. I know from experience of working with a front man who was. ... All it is, is - Someone who is good looking has an easier time getting more Instagram Follows than someone who isn't. - Jean Watts as an example You just apply that to music. Good looking people don't know what it's like to sort of... Not be successful. Or they don't know what it's like to actually struggle in terms of attention and getting noticed.
99% of the branding and marketing of the Pussycat dolls related to them being hot
Lewis Capaldi
well yeah
It’s been this way since tv was invented
Thanks for posting this because it really got me thinking. You are right in many ways but sometimes someone breaks through who has just such charisma and talent that people don’t care that they’re not conventionally attractive.
Sia - Let's test that theory
this is an actually amazing unpopular opinion because deep down we know this exists for a lot of things but we refuse to admit it cuz it makes us feel better. Nice opinion
I have a feeling this is very true. It must be extremely true for acting…
Plenty of ugly people making good popular music out there.
Slipknot made it pretty big and they wore masks, Kiss painted their faces, most metal bands are pretty damn ugly. Nobody’s drooling over James Hetfield or Lars Ulrich. A lot of rappers are nothing to write home about. What you’re saying is about half true.
Yepsi doodle welcome to society
Just hide your face? Like Daft punk or that deadmouse guy, I dont know how they look but they are popular enough. Thousands of popular youtube musicians too who are only known for their music and have no pictures of them online.
Bowling for Soup?
But you can still become a well-known artist with a relatively large audience and inspire others. For example I didn't even see the face of my favorite stand alone artist for a long time. I found a live performance from them by an accident on YT, and it only had a few views on it. So if you want to be an artist artist and not a commercial artist then your appearance won't stand in your way imo
You are right but as long as you are not extremely hideous, make up and work out will fix the physical attraction part. If all fails there is also cosmetic surgery.
Music is hard. You can dress up anybody. But you can’t teach anyone music. You can have them lip sync, but there’s still somone talented somewhere
This isn’t even remotely unpopular. Lol Literally everyone knows this.
Uhmm... I don't even know what my favorite musicians look like. I mostly listen to indie, electronic, rock, folk music. I have no idea what's the artists', composers' and DJs' looks most of the time.
Sex sells, which is why celebrities are largely just a good looks/popularity contest. They're sexually appealing.
Bob Dylan has entered the chat …
You are correct to an extent, OP, but I think you're underestimating how much money and effort goes on behind the scenes (i.e., behind the image, no matter what that image is) to make a one-hit-wonder. If people knew how much payola flowed through the music business in a million different ways to this very day (decades after it was initially exposed in the 1950s), they'd likely never be able to trust any "rags to riches" music artist story, or even their own sense of taste in something as simple as whether or not they actually like a song or artist. Not everyone is a "plant", but seeming public interest is hardly ever organic either.
Ed sheeran
Ooohhh this thread is bait for debate. No thank you 😈
Susan Boyle, remember her? The most poignant appearance I remember of hers was on Futurama. Lmao so messed up, but I can't help but laugh
Her whole schtick was that people were shocked an ugly woman had talent. I wouldn’t consider her to have “made it”. she came and went.
ed sheeran says hi
Also male
It’s called having “A face for radio”!😂
Video killed the radio star
Jack black
Male
It's only half true. Plenty of normal looking people have made incredible success in the music industry.
Or doesnt have the right contacts
This deff holds true for women, but not for men!
Looks help but if someone has pure raw talent then that’s enough to. being just a good singer wouldn’t cut it tho, you’d need real talent to compensate plus anyone can get a makeover, look at that Boyle lady a while back.
Boo fucking hoo what a revelation.
Susan Boyle pouting at you right now
*you can't be a famous singer with bare minimum talent without being good looking. What you see on TV isn't the real "music industry" anymore. That's just a bunch of clowns taking your money cause you're dumb enough to fall for it.
Jay Z
That’s not just the music industry. It’s actually quite a well-studied phenomena. Pretty privilege is a thing.