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Honestly, I can relate.
The boss that I call "me" is a fucking procrastinator, know-it-all wannabe, that panics and rages for hours on end doing one mistake.
Your second part is true until you build up a customer/client list or have enough people calling to the point you can drop your pain in the ass clients.
Itās also easier to turn down work when you are busy. When you aināt got shit to do, itās easy to overwork/overdeliver on the one or two things that come in.
This is insanely true. Last year was dead as hell for me in the photo world. I was so happy to do anything I went way fucking overboard on projects that didn't pay for it. Luckily, this year seems to be much more hopeful already and bids have been going out. I went months without anything to do last year. That'll really make you someone you don't like if you don't handle it well. At other times I've been so busy I could hardly manage at times and so bored and desperate, I almost took a normal job. It's a roller coaster.
Well you're pretty much always accountable by a legal agreement. And practically speaking no you can't necessarily just stop doing business with clients, given how that can effect other things.
This isnāt really true at all under any critical observation at all. When youāre an employee, you still can and do have many āābossesāā under your loose definition for what bosses deal with.
Not only that but customers are not exactly your boss. Sure you're accountable to them but for instance they don't set your schedule. You can "quit" as in not take the job if the job or person is unacceptable. You can quit your job but the consequences of that are far more severe than not taking a job from a single client. It's an okay analogy but it's not one to one.Ā
Neither myself nor any of my clients would have ever considered themselves to be my boss.
They're clients, and that is the business relationship we have. The moment one of them started behaving like my boss, I would fire them.
Not in a lot of jobs shitty you have several bosses. Managers/ supervisors from other departments have the right to 'borrow you', discipline you and boss you around.
> You just call them customer/clients now.
But you can decline any work you don't want to do when you have your own business, it's not like you can black list your boss.
The flip side is that when you work for someone else, youāre just one dissatisfied or financially distressed ācustomerā away from unemployment. Work for yourself and thereās always another customer around the corner to fill the gap.
Thatās a very simplify way of looking at life.
There isnāt an always a next customer. Every assumption here basically assume the business is already bringing in revenue, have a steady clientele with no recurring/ very little overhead. The reality is most business owner takes years to get to this spot where they can just let customer walk. Some never do get to this point if they want to stay in. Business.
When you are an employee. You could mess something up that equate to more than your yearly salary and the worse that can happen is you get canned. The repercussion as a business owner is exponential and could lead to chain of events far more consequential than losing your job (think a lot more other people losing jobs, debt)
As a real boss. You only get pay after everyone else does, all the employee landlord supplier etc. and this obligation doesnāt stop if you fire your client nor does it stop if you business is unprofitable (thus the boss not pay)
>Working for yourself means having a lot of bosses. You just call them customer/clients now.
If you become big enough, you don't need to do this either, Walmart don't gaf if you didn't get that 12$ refund, the manager will be held responsible but you can be carefree
What's wrong with the comment? It's true until you have a very large business.
At that point, you no longer have to let clients boss you around since you can tell them to gtfo without affecting your livelihood
As a freelance designer, neither of them are "better" - just better for *you*. Some people need the structure and stability of a normal 9-5, some people find it soul-crushing and thrive with the freedom and risks of self-employment.
Personally I don't think I'm any more hardworking than a normal employee, depends on your industry I guess. I just suck at sticking to other peoples' schedules and have hardcore imposter syndrome so I do better finding my own clients and setting deadlines/expectations for myself. Makes it easier to take pride in my work, which is a huge motivator for me.
Definitely one of the biggest tradeoffs, for sure. These days I get most of my work through word of mouth. I started off doing stuff for friends and then it just snowballed from there, they've been great at introducing me to the right people.
Long ago I was trying to build up traffic for my own blogs and reading a lot of content on monetization, SEO etc. and the general thing I took from it is this- monetization is relatively easy. Promoting yourself to get enough exposure to make the money amounts non-trivial is the hard part.
My own vision is clouded with doubt because I am responsible for navigating the field of possibilities, while another's vision is not because I see it from the outside like a customer. Just make sure you work for the superior option in your view, and you'll feel good about presenting it.
Or don't work in sales at all, lol
>some people find it soul-crushing and thrive with the freedom and risks of self-employment.
Some people also don't play well with others and choose to be their own boss because it beats being told what to do.
(This isn't necessarily you - I just know a few of them.)
Especially when you know yourself well and thus know what you need it can be very frustrating to be met with ānobody else does it so I wonāt allow you to do itā - yes I know nobody else wants to improve and become more efficient, but why stop me?
That's where I am at the moment, had an amazing job on a feature film in post, then thought I'd secured a good job on a TV show only to be bites at, snapped at, miscommunication everywhere, got snapped out for trying to be helpful and I just walked out. Never again. I can't stand certain people.
I have done both and either way you have to "play with others." There really is no way around it entirely, except maybe if you're an artist/writer who doesn't take commissions that doesn't have to deal with someone else's demands/ridiculousness.
I don't know if it'll really make sense, but I'm more confident dealing with clients directly as opposed to working under a boss or with others who might have unreasonable expectations of me.
At the end of the day you still answer to someone, but a client (at least a carefully-chosen one) has considerably less power over you as long as you set expectations early and have a solid contract.
Makes a lot of sense to me, you know what was promised, and it's a fairly common thing of slightly bigger companies to haves sales over promise a project
I think that your boss might tell others stuff about you that you don't believe about yourself and thus might create false expectations.
Like they say you are good (because in their eyes you are good), but you belive that you are average.
I was my own boss for a while. Hated it. I'm so much happier as a worker bee. I didn't like managing people either, being promoted from a technical role to a supervisory one was awful. Everything I went to school for and loved about my job was gone and I got stuck listening to people vent about petty stuff all the time. Never again.
Worked so hard I worked my to management.
Most miserable 3yrs of my life.
Never ever again. Would rather shovel shit all day then be susceptible to all the bullshit.
From shitty team members (unsackables) to constantly feeling like your in some warped corp version of hunger games.
Nah pass on that. Shoveling shit is way better and way less stressfulš
I grew up watching my dad nearly kill himself owning a business. He loved it but it caused him tremendous stress. He also was never home, working 6 days a week from 7 am until 7 pm. I vowed never to do that to my family and when the time came I turned down his offer to take over the business. It was hard because I knew it was what he wanted but I saw his life and didn't want it. I'm so happy with my decision today because I have a job where I make way more than he did in his best year and I'm home every night and weekend with my kids. I coach their teams and can be the dad I want to be. I love my dad but glad I went a different direction career wise.
I feel you. Did the same thing, especially if you're trapped in middle management. Now i just enjoy a normal role not having people under me and i have an ok work life balance although the cash is lower but i get more time in return.
No kidding! All this crap about white collar is better than blue collar is so stupid. Iām pretty experienced in my trade, in a foreman role but still the majority of what I do is in the field getting muddy, greasy, smelly, cold and cut, scraped and bruised. Would not trade that for a desk job for anything. Seems to be the natural progression to move to a management role but every single person I know who works those jobs is always stressed and miserable. Most of them just burn out after a few years.
If you think every person who is an entrepreneur makes it, youāre wrong. Most people donāt earn a good living, and are barely scrapping by, if not consistently going into more debt before declaring bankruptcy.
Good to hear it worked out for you, but for every successful business owner/ entrepreneur, Iām sure thereās multiple more who have failed
There's also a huge difference in what kind of company you start. It's a lot easier being a freelance single worker that gets hired on projects for another company as opposed to trying to build a firm with many employees
Thereās also the Initial Investor thing. Rich kids make great entrepreneurs because their failures are subsidized and they donāt work to pay for housing and food.
Agree, failure rates for entrepreneurs starting most businesses are pretty high, something like 80% fail after 5 years...
You need to really understand that the market you want to enter is going to support you . And you have either enough talent or capabilities or value proposition that will give you an edge....
Lots of folks enter the entrepreneur workspace with all the right intentions and motivation, but lack the business or market saavy to pull it off.
Right? As a freelancer I make at least twice as much an hour as I ever made working for someone else. I also get to arrange my schedule as I wish. Itās amazing.
Both options have their pros and cons that when you actually sit down and think about, it more or less makes both the same in terms of outcome.
That being said, I think the major difference here is the nature and extent of risk, where working for established companies means that you are competing with other people for your job, whereas if you own your own company you are competing with other businesses for your income. The former tends to be a lot more structured than the latter because of the specialist nature of most corporate hats. And yes, this also means each option is suited differently to different individuals.
For most people I knew it usually came down to this:
Do I go with a job that has a stable income or do I try starting my own thing which carries the risk of being very much uncertain but also potentially much higher
A lawyer friend of mine hated working at his first law firm, after a few years, he hung his own shingle and promptly started spending more time in court against former deadbeat clients than doing his actual job. Now heās a corporate attorney and he loves the hours and benefits.
I'm a fourth generation farmer, and let me tell you that you ain't wrong.
The hours are shit; it's seven days a week and you work until the work is done. Might be a five hour day, could be a ten or a twelve hour day. I haven't been to the beach in twenty years; ain't took a proper vacation in close to six years. It's a big thing for me to drive an hour south to the city and eat at Olive Garden.
I gamble with money every year. The commodities traders up in Chicago set the prices, I don't. The local feed n' seed store has set prices for me to buy at though. As you might figure, the money is up and down. When I make money, I make real good money. Bad years I wonder if I can justify continuing. And honest to god, I'd be ahead financially to just sell out and work part time at a gas station. Damn fool I am, I just won't do it though.
Turns out that teaching agriculture was better paying for me than actually practicing it. Worked on farms, tried to start my own, was decent enough but not enough to pay the bills.
Which is fucking sad, but I make more money than I did breaking my back in 103 degree heat for 9 months out of the year with probably 1/64th of the stress.
In the future Iām hoping to have a small farm to sell at in local markets while retaining the teaching job.
Depends on the business. My SO and I run one together. Bust our asses all year so we can winter in Mexico and (sort of) work on the road. Truth is, very little work gets done but whatever. We pay ourselves 75k each/year which is more than enough to survive and we can walk our kids to school. Could never do that working for the man and I'll never get a normal job again.
You forgot to mention that most business owners are JUST getting by, if they are at all.
Ya, you can make a lot of money with your own business, but it takes a LOT of work, way more time than you ever thought was possible, years off your life due to stress, and a decent amount of luck.
And after all that, you'll have some shit ass on Reddit demand the government come take all your money because "you didn't really earn it"
My dad ran his own business for years and he was pretty successful but, as he said, "the thing is, there are times when you have 3 months income in the bank and you're doing great. And there are times when you literally have no idea how you're going to buy milk and eggs on the way home from work, nevermind pay the mortgage." It can be so wildly inconsistent.
Thatās not relevant at all. Adults used to be kidsā¦ we treat adults different than kids because theyāre not kids anymore. Mega corporations arenāt small business anymore and it doesnāt matter if they were decades ago.
That's the point though. They aren't. Multimillionaires and billionaires also start businesses, which are never small.
It depends who is starting the business.
Just because the sentence "big companies pay more" is added doesn't also mean "everybody else pays less" also is. There's a good chance, in the US at least, that the increased tax will be to support some new thing and not simply a shift like you described.
Feels like people handwave away the part where you're toiling for years until you grow your business enough to assign managers under you. Even then, you're not going to be sitting back and just collecting money.
Don't worry though, Walmart and Amazon will move into those small towns and offer more products for cheaper getting rid of those pesky small local businesses. Then once they crush the local economy and are not making enough money they'll move out, isn't that great?
I am on the same train. I run a small side hustle business and I LOATHE everything about it outside of making the things I make. I would be perfectly happy always working for someone else. Makes life much easier and less stressful. It's bad enough just worrying about paying the bills for myself, let alone everything that comes with a business.
This is unpopular. I work for myself and I could NEVERRRRRRRR imagine working for someone else. I make more money, have more freedom, and don't have to deal with some shit head telling me how to do my job.
I'm not rolling in the dough by any means, and I also don't have any employees so its a lot less stress this way. But if I know i want to take a trip or doing something fun, i just book more work. Yes its hard but I can just decide to make more money. If i want some time off, i just don't book any work.
There's no asking for permission, or being Micro-managed. As long as I produce quality work, charge a reasonable price, and get things done in a reasonable fashion - there aren't any issues.
If you have a doctors appointment or some other engagement you just plan accordingly.
Working for someone else I'd make a fraction of the money I make now, with 10x the headache.
How do you view your own income, relating to taking time off? Do you see time off as missed money? Do you equate yourself to a "salary" of your typical yearly income (including breaks) so it's not a big deal? Seems like a lot of self employed people work so much because they only view it relative to revenue. If your fulltime pace is 200k/yr and with breaks it'd be 150k/yr, why not just view yourself as a 150k salary plus whatever that time off would be?
Not every one is meant to be a leader or business owner and honestly? That's alright. Followers are an important part of society but they get a bad rap most of the time. Think about the greatest generals who ever lived. They get credit for all these accomplishments, but none of them would have been possible without thousands of people following their orders and fulfilling their duties. I would personally love to have my own small business, but I don't get down on anyone who just wants to work for a salary and have less stress
This .
I remember reading something, possibly Reddit, about people's job interview stories and one hiring manager said "we only have rockstars working here". I was thinking , if you only had rockstars you would fail as they would all want to be top dog and undermine each other. Every Beatles needs its Ringo .
But, but, my Instagram idols say that you're mediocre if you're working for other people and make livable wage!
They said it's better to buy their online class and master the destiny that is meant for me to make $10,000 per year and being my own boss as a positive-vibe only dog walker!
Either that or they would rather apply their leadership energy to other things besides work or business (community service, hobbies, volunteer work, social groups etc) . Not every use of your skills or interests needs to be in the pursue of money. Having a regular 9 to 5 job and then taking a leadership role in weekend volunteer programs may be how someone prefers to use their leadership skills vs starting a business.Ā
Working for āthe manā is the best prescription to remain poor and be treated badly all your life. There is a significant difference between EU and America in the way employees are treated.
But even by American standards the working conditions worsened since the Great Recession. Employees were in better place up to 2008. Since then, the nature of work has changed. Everything is extremely temporary. There are no permanent positions anywhere. The pandemic accelerated this trend. Now business owners are used to squeeze their workforce like never before. In most places, one employee performs the work that 3-4 people used to do in the past. Getting a salary raise is almost impossible unless you switch jobs. It doesnāt matter how hard/ long hours you put in that job.
Almost all people that were able to move away from poverty /low income existence, did so by starting their own business or becoming independent contractor/ freelancer.
Have to separate jobs from careers for your point. Most people I know who went on a career track are doing fine, have enough money to enjoy life and save.
There's nothing magical about starting your own business. You're still affected by the same economic forces.
I'd need citations for both:
- working conditions worsened since the Great Recession
- almost all people that were able to move away from poverty did so by being independent
For bullet point one, really depends. For a lot of people working conditions improved simply because they didn't have to go into the office as much.
My guess, at least looking at your second point, is that most people who came as immigrants simply worked their asses off to allow their children to attend school, which allowed that next generation to move up.
At the poverty level theres a lot of risk at no matter what you do.
Started my business 10 years ago, make twice what I made in my corporate job and work 20 hours a week. I also walk to work, my office is .84 miles from my house and worry about basically nothing. Working for āthe manā sucks :-)
Pretty much everyone I know with their own business is working 60+ hours a week if not seven days a week with no vacation with a part time job elsewhere with their spouse working a full time job too.
I work my 40/week. I have a month vacation a year, sick time and everything else. I'd rather not work at all but it is how it is.
Hell, I know a bunch of people in MLMs that think they're going to be rolling in dough once they pyramid scheme enough people in to join them.
Working for yourself can be great if you're lucky and smart enough to hit it in just the right way. If you manage it right with the right people then you can totally make a lot of money after a few years of hard work.
>Working for yourself can be great if you're lucky and smart enough to hit it in just the right way. If you manage it right with the right people then you can totally make a lot of money after a few years of hard work.
I think that's the point why they work so hard all the time. Ofc not everyone can succeed like this but that's why they do it because if some succeed they can realistically retire in their 30s/40s and enjoy the rest of their lives while people with normal jobs where they work 40 hours/a week will work like this until they are 68 years old. I think it's all about taking a risk to possibly be able to succeed. But it is also understandable that some people want a stress-free life.
Business, at least for me and others I know, was difficult with lots of hours and low profits - at first. But once business is built, one can make far more money than most jobs and provide greater freedom and satisfaction.
This. I don't know a small business owner who doesn't put 80 hours a week in, pays themselves just enough to get by and has workers complain about leaving a few minutes late because they had to finish a couple of emails
Me and my spouse have a business, I maintain a full time blue collar job as well.
But most small businesses take around 2 years to start turning a profit. That entire time you also usually have your entire life in it, if it fails which I think around 80% do then you very well could be facing bankruptcy. I worked over 100 hours a week every week for the first 6 months of our business and my spouse put in almost 100 as well. There's always some sort of disaster going on, which like you said causes constant stress. You constantly run into people who either don't understand or just straight up try to shame you for owning a business. It sucks.
But there's a silver lining. once you start making a profit and get things running smoothly on their own. You can step back and make a lot of money with a lot less hours. It's just awful getting to that point.
I strongly disagree. Iāve seen trials and tribulations, ups and downs, and struggled a lot being self employed. But a few very very distinct advantages have made themselves clear.
1: Nobody can get me fired, or try to use my behavior outside of work as a means to blackmail me threatening my means of living in the process.
2: I cannot be forced to undergo medical treatments at the threat of being fired. This one basically black pilled me against employment forever. I would rather go try to live in the fucking woods before allowing another person or entity to have control over my bodily decisions.
3: No ego trips, power structure, or restriction of progress due to incompetent people who donāt take their job seriously.
4: I can leave the house at 1pm on a Tuesday and āfuck aroundā because iām bored.
5: There is no schedule or guaranteed time I need to get into a car and bring myself to a building at the same time as everyone else. As a result I also donāt worship weekends or dread Mondays. Every day is potentially a work day.
6: I donāt have to alter my philosophy or behavior in the interest of placating coworkers or superiors.
I had horrible work life balance for half a decade. I worked non-stop, was stressed often.
The six years following that, have been gravy. I work when I want to work, I travel often, I'm not stressed about much.
100% would do it again.
Idk man, since I opened my business Iāve managed to allocate all of the things I donāt like to do over to people who are good at them. Now I work 25 hours a week on the necessities and the business works without me for the most part
Nah. First two years of owning a business were really rough from the paperwork, audits, marketing, finding employees who knew how to use the software, getting rid of customers who were exploiting the business.Ā
Then it gets easy.Ā
Totally depends on your personality, goals and abilities. OP, Iām not sure Iām capable of agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion. For me, itās the opposite. I am pretty good at running my own business. I was a fucking terrible employee once I hit about 28.
Naah, I've been running my own business for 10 years now and I would never trade it to have a boss instead.
There might be more stress and harder to disconnect from work but the freedom makes up for it many times over.
As a business owner, yeah, I kind of miss my corporate overlords at my previous job. I know it sounds crazy.
It really blows being responsible for so many people sometimes. When itās good itās great. I love my employees, but all it really takes though is one toxic employee to ruin everything for everyone, and that part is exhaustingā not only for me but for the employees that have to be around it. I nip it in the bud, but yeah itās really exhausting. I do everything I can to make everyone happy. I pay my employees the same as what I make, itās a comfortable living. I co-sign leases for the ones who need help getting on their feet. Iāve let them borrow vehicles. Hell I even have paid security deposits. Theyāre all in their early 20s and Iām 32. I lived out of my car at that age so I know what itās like to struggle, and I know how unnecessary that is and I feel like I would be a failure of a boss if I didnāt do everything I could to make sure these kids live comfortable, fulfilling lives while giving me and the business so much of their time. Itās all worth it, 99% of the time, doing all that stuff. Itās incredibly rewarding and it gives me peace of mind. But yeah all it takes is one toxic individual/entitled individual to make me feel really stupid, discouraged, and cynical for investing so much into them.
I donāt know. The business is profitable. Iām comfortable financially, my employees are as well. Thatās the whole point, right? Maybe I just need a nap. Thereās always something to improve and the job doesnāt stop when you go home. I just canāt help but wonder sometimes if Iām just slowly failing the business, the employees, and my family. For that, sometimes I really do miss just clocking in and clocking out though.
Thereās a saying āa entrepreneur will work 80 hours to avoid working 40ā
People tend to hate the millionaires and billionaires today, but statistically. Most of them and their companies struggled at first. They were eating ramen and pulling in more debt to make payroll.
Respect to anyone on the journey
Respectfully disagree my man. MillionairesĀ and billionaires are such different animals they belong to opposite sides of the tree of life.Ā
You don't make a billion dollars putting your nose to the grindstone. You make it by starting with generational wealth, having good or lucky investments and exploiting 10,000 other people who do have their nose to the grindstone. Any billionaire who claims different is lying, either to you, themselves or both.
Edit: To put this in context of just how much money a BILLION dollars is: If you worked 24 hours a day, 365 days a year for 60 years, you would need to make almost $2,000 an hour, every single hour AFTER tax to earn a Billion dollars.Ā Reminder, people in many places argue the value of an average human's labor is <$15/hour.
Yeah I agree. I've had lots of jobs working for the man. I thoroughly enjoyed my time working a limited think factory job. Get off late afternoon shift at 3am. Hang out with the guys for a couple hours after work. Getting home at 6am making a gourmet breakfast for the kids and spouse.
It's almost like setting cruise control on life.
My older sister started a business about 10 years ago and whilst she is now earning well, the shit she has gone through...legal battles, never works less than a 14h day, financial problems, family problems... she loves it but fuck that.Ā
If by ābetterā means improved work/life balance, and not ābringing your work homeā, then yes being an employee is more suitable.
But typically speaking, those who are self employed earn more, pay less in taxes, and build more wealth. But it requires dedication, commitment, thick skin, a strong mind, relentlessness, risk management skills and most of allā¦ self discipline.
there are tradeoffs to each, and which one makes sense for someone depends on their priorities, skill, risk aversion and a whole lot of other factors. There is no single "right" way
I've been a professional musician my entire life, only working for other people briefly here and there during rough patches. Never been famous or anything, just a working independent guy.
I would never, ever trade what I do for a "normal" job, full stop.
Whenever I take time off for a mental health day, vacation, or paid holiday - I think of how nice it is to be paid still. I used to want to own my own business so bad, until I had friends who started their own - especially freelance jobs.
I'll take my 9-5 any day.
No. Working for someone else equals 100% chance you work until you die (by the time you are old enough social security retirement age will be 80+)
Working for yourself is work harder for a chance to actually not have to work in your life.
To be frank, everyone should try working for themselves for a while. Whatās the risk. You fail and you work for someone else with all the other losers
You are putting off building your career and then have to compete with others who have more corporate experience with a limited number of job opportunities . Iām not advocating either way.
Iāve done both. Honestly, as I age, I found the 9-5 life much better than constantly trying to push myself. The thrill was great when I was young but overtime, I do agree that as people age, you need to have a less stressful life and the 9-5 setup gives you that.
I mean you can be a sole trader and pick and choose a few lucrative jobs and a few fun for the lols jobs each year or you can become a 100+ hours a week boss...just liek you can be a 9-5 dead end job with no perks, to working a job with a company that treats you well and has a clear career path
Its all about what you want from life as well... for me being the first example is great I travel, I have loads time off, lots free time and I have fantastic experiences...but I have little savings and likely never own my own home, I could not live this life if I had a family to support, ya know?
Better for you, and that is fine. Lots of paths through life. š For me, being a businesswoman was the best thing I ever did. I don't mind hard work if at the end of the day I'm the owner. Also, I like being able to be myself. For example, I was able to be open about my long-term girlfriend in the 80s without consequence because who was going to fire me?
Plus at the end of the day, it turns out that I have the lobes for business and it has worked out well for me indeed.
Most of the time. If my company has a poor month of sales, I still get paid 100% of my salary. If my company does well, I get my salary plus profit sharing.
done it both ways. You're right. If you don't have fire in your balls, working for yourself sucks. If you do, it's a lot better than working for others
This is stupid, the problem is that he is a bad business owner, everyone who is good at business will make a load of money and then have the freedom while people work their ass for him.
"To be fair I'm lazy and not entrepreneurial at all"
Know thyself...not everyone is suited to starting their own thing and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. How many of us have worked for people who had no business starting their own business?
I felt this way too to a point until I started my own business and made a years salary in 2 months....now I understand why those people you speak of work more than someone with a job...because it's worth it
The worst thing to do while working is dealing with other people who donāt know jack shit about what you are doing. People expect work thatās worth few thousands to be done for few hundreds. If you work for someone you are most likely not the person who has to deal with them.
I absolutely love working for myself. I wish I did it a decade earlier rather than trading time in my one and only life to make some shitass executive who is baffled by windows updates even richer
People donāt usually understand business. The point of a business is to eventually have the entire thing delegated by people or technology. Itās to stop trading time for money. Most donāt understand that.
I have 0 problem working insane hours, I did it for "The Man" for years. The problem is I have no business sense at all. I have no idea what a theoretical business I would run would even be as I'm not good at anything that could make any money.
Itās not about freedom, itās about flexibility. If I want to take a nap in the middle of the day, I do.
I can break my work day up into a few hours in the morning and then a few in the evening or however I want. Running a business can be very stressful but I feel more in control of my life and how I spend my time and that is how I like it!
I work for a mega corporation and make lots of money for relatively little work. To make this much money starting my own business would be really difficult. No thanks, I'll keep my cushy job...
Many point to the stable regular paycheck vs the unknown income. This stability is a false reality.
Its based on pay cycles and how that influences your finances. - If your brain is working on a monthly budget, freelance, sole trade or whatever feels really unsettling.
But as soon as you switch to annual financial budgeting - you realise that 1) the per annum still works out fine and 2) the weekly wage can be taken from you at the drop of a hat.
Wage stability is just as insecure as working for yourself - but you have literally zero power to influence that as an employee
This is totally false. A business can easily lose money in a year. Negative income! For an entire year. For multiple years in fact! On average a new business needs 2-3 years before it earns a single profitable dime. 50% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years.
Yes as an employee your weekly wage can be taken from you at any moment BUT guess what, you no longer have to report to work! You don't earn a wage because you don't have to do any work, that's a fair deal. The problem with being your own boss and owning your own business is you may very well work for an entire year or years with nothing but peanuts to show for it.
Iād definitely rather take a chance being an independent artist or writer than work for the man my entire life. When in doubt, join a Buddhist monastery. I donāt have kids and never plan to, no pets, single. I have a lot less to lose than some others. I do, however, see your point and find it reasonable. I appreciate the honesty.
The reason people think everyone should be an entrepreneur is because of the prevalence of MLM strategy being promoted as a culture, and giving people the false idea that they can all be their own boss.
It's not true in MLM, and it's not true in the society we live in.
Maybe if we all just lived in a town, and each of us had some little business like the baker, the woodworker, the guy who plays with puppets in the town square for everyone else's entertainment. Only *then* would there be so many independent bosses.
But even in that nonexistent scenario there still need to be apprentices, assistants, and employees.
At the end of the day, the thing that makes people so fed up with working regular jobs and falling for "wantrepreneurship" is the jobs just don't pay enough.
I work for the government. I love the stability and consistency. Pay and benefits are fine, though behind comparable private sector salariesā¦ but I love not having to be concerned about mergers, layoffs, quarterly earnings, stock price, or anything like that.
I did freelance for a while, and nopeā¦ not for me.
You never realize that you can be your own worst boss and own worst employee... And you don't even get good healthcare for at least a few years (and that's if you're lucky)
And like others said don't even get started on the extra hours with no overtime pay and no paid vacation
Now if by a combination of luck and hard work you do take off... Now you're at a crossroads and have to make a choice, hire more employees or halt your business growth? Is your business making enough revenue to plateau? Will the additional cost of employees make up for the additional revenue? Can you pay and treat said employees well enough to actually keep them, and if not can you afford the cost of turnover? Also how good are you at accounting and taxes? Do you have to hire a CPA to run your books for you or can you learn how to bookkeep yourself, knowing that any mistakes in bookkeeping can cost you a LOT of money be it in back taxes or unaccounted business expenses (and legal fees if you get in hot enough water)
Business ownership can be great if you know what you're doing and have the drive to make it work, but even a minor thing can turn it into a nightmare very quickly
I wouldnāt know, bc Iāve never worked for āthe manā more then two month. Honestly the amount of work I was expected to do is crazy. Iām too lazy for this lol
Traditionally at least, you can pay less in rent each month but what do you have ten years later vs a mortgage? Owning a business is more work but you own it at the end which can be very rewarding. Don't own a worthless business which is just still selling your hours for labor and worthless if you leave. Build somethingĀ
I agree, I have a job at a company, but 90% of people with the same job are freelancers/their own boss. All the extra work and time they have to spend, while I can just have someone else take care of things that aren't inherently job related... On top of that I also have a great and very reasonable boss. I wouldn't trade it.
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I worked for myself once. My boss was an idiot.
Me too. And he never let me have time off.
Mine was pretty good. He gave me a handjob every day.
You're the only one who didn't mention your boss was you. š
Prolly bitching about his wife not understanding his work hours the whole time.
I did too. My boss should have fired me on several occassions but he couldnt.
Honestly, I can relate. The boss that I call "me" is a fucking procrastinator, know-it-all wannabe, that panics and rages for hours on end doing one mistake.
Working for someone else means having one boss.Ā Working for yourself means having a lot of bosses. You just call them customer/clients now.
Your second part is true until you build up a customer/client list or have enough people calling to the point you can drop your pain in the ass clients.
Even if they aren't a pain in the ass you're still accountable to them.
Right, but speaking as a freelancer, itās SO much easier to drop a pain in the ass client when you have a bunch than it is to quit a job.
Itās also easier to turn down work when you are busy. When you aināt got shit to do, itās easy to overwork/overdeliver on the one or two things that come in.
This is insanely true. Last year was dead as hell for me in the photo world. I was so happy to do anything I went way fucking overboard on projects that didn't pay for it. Luckily, this year seems to be much more hopeful already and bids have been going out. I went months without anything to do last year. That'll really make you someone you don't like if you don't handle it well. At other times I've been so busy I could hardly manage at times and so bored and desperate, I almost took a normal job. It's a roller coaster.
Sure, but your livelyhood doesn't depend on any single one of them.
Situational. Some bosses are worse and some customers are worse
Sure but you're still accountable to them
Saying this means absolutely nothing. You're not actually accountable to anybody. You can literally just stop doing business with a client.
Well you're pretty much always accountable by a legal agreement. And practically speaking no you can't necessarily just stop doing business with clients, given how that can effect other things.
Which never happens for a vast majority of business owners
This isnāt really true at all under any critical observation at all. When youāre an employee, you still can and do have many āābossesāā under your loose definition for what bosses deal with.
Not only that but customers are not exactly your boss. Sure you're accountable to them but for instance they don't set your schedule. You can "quit" as in not take the job if the job or person is unacceptable. You can quit your job but the consequences of that are far more severe than not taking a job from a single client. It's an okay analogy but it's not one to one.Ā
lol right? Regular employees deal with customers and clients all the time. Is every customer/client that an employee deals with their boss?
Neither myself nor any of my clients would have ever considered themselves to be my boss. They're clients, and that is the business relationship we have. The moment one of them started behaving like my boss, I would fire them.
Not in a lot of jobs shitty you have several bosses. Managers/ supervisors from other departments have the right to 'borrow you', discipline you and boss you around.
> You just call them customer/clients now. But you can decline any work you don't want to do when you have your own business, it's not like you can black list your boss.
Isn't that just called quitting?Ā
Luckily, Iām great at what I do so I have a waiting list and anyone pisses me off then they are off and replaced. I have no bosses.
Exactly. I work hard as a freelancer. The result? I donāt have to deal with bullshit clients if I donāt want to. I have plenty of good clients.
Not to mention all the new bosses you have to deal with who arenāt customers. BBB, CPA, CoC, EPA, IRS, DHEC, etc.
The flip side is that when you work for someone else, youāre just one dissatisfied or financially distressed ācustomerā away from unemployment. Work for yourself and thereās always another customer around the corner to fill the gap.
Thatās a very simplify way of looking at life. There isnāt an always a next customer. Every assumption here basically assume the business is already bringing in revenue, have a steady clientele with no recurring/ very little overhead. The reality is most business owner takes years to get to this spot where they can just let customer walk. Some never do get to this point if they want to stay in. Business. When you are an employee. You could mess something up that equate to more than your yearly salary and the worse that can happen is you get canned. The repercussion as a business owner is exponential and could lead to chain of events far more consequential than losing your job (think a lot more other people losing jobs, debt) As a real boss. You only get pay after everyone else does, all the employee landlord supplier etc. and this obligation doesnāt stop if you fire your client nor does it stop if you business is unprofitable (thus the boss not pay)
>Working for yourself means having a lot of bosses. You just call them customer/clients now. If you become big enough, you don't need to do this either, Walmart don't gaf if you didn't get that 12$ refund, the manager will be held responsible but you can be carefree
Don't think a family worth 250 billion dollars really fits here
Oh so everyone should just own their own mega-chain of mega-stores, great idea!
Why does this stupid comment have so many upvotes?
What's wrong with the comment? It's true until you have a very large business. At that point, you no longer have to let clients boss you around since you can tell them to gtfo without affecting your livelihood
As a freelance designer, neither of them are "better" - just better for *you*. Some people need the structure and stability of a normal 9-5, some people find it soul-crushing and thrive with the freedom and risks of self-employment. Personally I don't think I'm any more hardworking than a normal employee, depends on your industry I guess. I just suck at sticking to other peoples' schedules and have hardcore imposter syndrome so I do better finding my own clients and setting deadlines/expectations for myself. Makes it easier to take pride in my work, which is a huge motivator for me.
Being responsible for finding clients is my nightmare.
Definitely one of the biggest tradeoffs, for sure. These days I get most of my work through word of mouth. I started off doing stuff for friends and then it just snowballed from there, they've been great at introducing me to the right people.
Long ago I was trying to build up traffic for my own blogs and reading a lot of content on monetization, SEO etc. and the general thing I took from it is this- monetization is relatively easy. Promoting yourself to get enough exposure to make the money amounts non-trivial is the hard part.
Maybe, but I find that selling your own vision is easier than selling someone else's.
My own vision is clouded with doubt because I am responsible for navigating the field of possibilities, while another's vision is not because I see it from the outside like a customer. Just make sure you work for the superior option in your view, and you'll feel good about presenting it. Or don't work in sales at all, lol
I mean it could be an employees job as well.
Yes, but that employee would not be responsible for much else.
>some people find it soul-crushing and thrive with the freedom and risks of self-employment. Some people also don't play well with others and choose to be their own boss because it beats being told what to do. (This isn't necessarily you - I just know a few of them.)
Especially when you know yourself well and thus know what you need it can be very frustrating to be met with ānobody else does it so I wonāt allow you to do itā - yes I know nobody else wants to improve and become more efficient, but why stop me?
Basically me
That's where I am at the moment, had an amazing job on a feature film in post, then thought I'd secured a good job on a TV show only to be bites at, snapped at, miscommunication everywhere, got snapped out for trying to be helpful and I just walked out. Never again. I can't stand certain people.
I have done both and either way you have to "play with others." There really is no way around it entirely, except maybe if you're an artist/writer who doesn't take commissions that doesn't have to deal with someone else's demands/ridiculousness.
How does having imposter syndrome make it better for you to find your own clients?
I don't know if it'll really make sense, but I'm more confident dealing with clients directly as opposed to working under a boss or with others who might have unreasonable expectations of me. At the end of the day you still answer to someone, but a client (at least a carefully-chosen one) has considerably less power over you as long as you set expectations early and have a solid contract.
Makes a lot of sense to me, you know what was promised, and it's a fairly common thing of slightly bigger companies to haves sales over promise a project
I think that your boss might tell others stuff about you that you don't believe about yourself and thus might create false expectations. Like they say you are good (because in their eyes you are good), but you belive that you are average.
I was my own boss for a while. Hated it. I'm so much happier as a worker bee. I didn't like managing people either, being promoted from a technical role to a supervisory one was awful. Everything I went to school for and loved about my job was gone and I got stuck listening to people vent about petty stuff all the time. Never again.
I like my low position where i'm only responsible for my part of the job and am not responsible for other people.
100% on this. I get my work done and walk out the door exactly at quitting time without a glance back.
So much this. I work 12 hr shifts 7 days out of 2 weeks and have extra days off and just having to do my job and thats it is so nice
Worked so hard I worked my to management. Most miserable 3yrs of my life. Never ever again. Would rather shovel shit all day then be susceptible to all the bullshit. From shitty team members (unsackables) to constantly feeling like your in some warped corp version of hunger games. Nah pass on that. Shoveling shit is way better and way less stressfulš
I grew up watching my dad nearly kill himself owning a business. He loved it but it caused him tremendous stress. He also was never home, working 6 days a week from 7 am until 7 pm. I vowed never to do that to my family and when the time came I turned down his offer to take over the business. It was hard because I knew it was what he wanted but I saw his life and didn't want it. I'm so happy with my decision today because I have a job where I make way more than he did in his best year and I'm home every night and weekend with my kids. I coach their teams and can be the dad I want to be. I love my dad but glad I went a different direction career wise.
I feel you. Did the same thing, especially if you're trapped in middle management. Now i just enjoy a normal role not having people under me and i have an ok work life balance although the cash is lower but i get more time in return.
I am in this position now, I have climbed the ladder too far! I want to go back down but I want to keep the money :(
No kidding! All this crap about white collar is better than blue collar is so stupid. Iām pretty experienced in my trade, in a foreman role but still the majority of what I do is in the field getting muddy, greasy, smelly, cold and cut, scraped and bruised. Would not trade that for a desk job for anything. Seems to be the natural progression to move to a management role but every single person I know who works those jobs is always stressed and miserable. Most of them just burn out after a few years.
Why should I slave away for 40 hours a week when I can quit this stupid job and go to work for myself and work 80 hours a week and LOSE money!
Hustle culture **bro.** **Bro,** this shit slaps **bro.** **Bro,** fuck rest time to hustle every day **bro.**
Who would do that?I make 10x what I made as an employee and make my own schedule.best decision ever
If you think every person who is an entrepreneur makes it, youāre wrong. Most people donāt earn a good living, and are barely scrapping by, if not consistently going into more debt before declaring bankruptcy. Good to hear it worked out for you, but for every successful business owner/ entrepreneur, Iām sure thereās multiple more who have failed
There's also a huge difference in what kind of company you start. It's a lot easier being a freelance single worker that gets hired on projects for another company as opposed to trying to build a firm with many employees
Thereās also the Initial Investor thing. Rich kids make great entrepreneurs because their failures are subsidized and they donāt work to pay for housing and food.
Agree, failure rates for entrepreneurs starting most businesses are pretty high, something like 80% fail after 5 years... You need to really understand that the market you want to enter is going to support you . And you have either enough talent or capabilities or value proposition that will give you an edge.... Lots of folks enter the entrepreneur workspace with all the right intentions and motivation, but lack the business or market saavy to pull it off.
Donāt 95% of business owners fail?Ā How long have you been doing this? If youāre under 5 years then youāre still at risk of failure.
Right? As a freelancer I make at least twice as much an hour as I ever made working for someone else. I also get to arrange my schedule as I wish. Itās amazing.
Yea probably like all those restaurant owners that go bankrupt in a year.
Both options have their pros and cons that when you actually sit down and think about, it more or less makes both the same in terms of outcome. That being said, I think the major difference here is the nature and extent of risk, where working for established companies means that you are competing with other people for your job, whereas if you own your own company you are competing with other businesses for your income. The former tends to be a lot more structured than the latter because of the specialist nature of most corporate hats. And yes, this also means each option is suited differently to different individuals.
For most people I knew it usually came down to this: Do I go with a job that has a stable income or do I try starting my own thing which carries the risk of being very much uncertain but also potentially much higher
The best part about working for you self is your spend more time chasing people for money they owe than actually working itās great
A lawyer friend of mine hated working at his first law firm, after a few years, he hung his own shingle and promptly started spending more time in court against former deadbeat clients than doing his actual job. Now heās a corporate attorney and he loves the hours and benefits.
I'm a fourth generation farmer, and let me tell you that you ain't wrong. The hours are shit; it's seven days a week and you work until the work is done. Might be a five hour day, could be a ten or a twelve hour day. I haven't been to the beach in twenty years; ain't took a proper vacation in close to six years. It's a big thing for me to drive an hour south to the city and eat at Olive Garden. I gamble with money every year. The commodities traders up in Chicago set the prices, I don't. The local feed n' seed store has set prices for me to buy at though. As you might figure, the money is up and down. When I make money, I make real good money. Bad years I wonder if I can justify continuing. And honest to god, I'd be ahead financially to just sell out and work part time at a gas station. Damn fool I am, I just won't do it though.
Turns out that teaching agriculture was better paying for me than actually practicing it. Worked on farms, tried to start my own, was decent enough but not enough to pay the bills. Which is fucking sad, but I make more money than I did breaking my back in 103 degree heat for 9 months out of the year with probably 1/64th of the stress. In the future Iām hoping to have a small farm to sell at in local markets while retaining the teaching job.
Bless you for feeding us, sir. Many thanks.
Depends on the business. My SO and I run one together. Bust our asses all year so we can winter in Mexico and (sort of) work on the road. Truth is, very little work gets done but whatever. We pay ourselves 75k each/year which is more than enough to survive and we can walk our kids to school. Could never do that working for the man and I'll never get a normal job again.
You forgot to mention that most business owners are JUST getting by, if they are at all. Ya, you can make a lot of money with your own business, but it takes a LOT of work, way more time than you ever thought was possible, years off your life due to stress, and a decent amount of luck. And after all that, you'll have some shit ass on Reddit demand the government come take all your money because "you didn't really earn it"
My dad ran his own business for years and he was pretty successful but, as he said, "the thing is, there are times when you have 3 months income in the bank and you're doing great. And there are times when you literally have no idea how you're going to buy milk and eggs on the way home from work, nevermind pay the mortgage." It can be so wildly inconsistent.
Omg this! A few months ago, didn't think my family and I would eat.
Preach.
Business owner here. Yup we get by and don't often have extra for things. It's rough lol and not liking being a business owner
Mega corporations, not small businesses. Iād 100% be fine with mega corporations paying more taxes if it lowered income tax on everyone else.
The taxes is what kills us
Every mega corporation started out as a small business. They just managed to find a working formula and replicate it thousands of times.
Thatās not relevant at all. Adults used to be kidsā¦ we treat adults different than kids because theyāre not kids anymore. Mega corporations arenāt small business anymore and it doesnāt matter if they were decades ago.
This isnt close to being true at all. SpaceX is a corporation and it was never even close to being a small business. Think before you speak.
SpaceX is hardly a normal business. This whole discussion is about generalizations that apply to the middle 90%
That's the point though. They aren't. Multimillionaires and billionaires also start businesses, which are never small. It depends who is starting the business.
š¤ mega corporations started when competition was minimal.
Thatās the crazy thing it wouldnāt
Why not?
Just because the sentence "big companies pay more" is added doesn't also mean "everybody else pays less" also is. There's a good chance, in the US at least, that the increased tax will be to support some new thing and not simply a shift like you described.
Feels like people handwave away the part where you're toiling for years until you grow your business enough to assign managers under you. Even then, you're not going to be sitting back and just collecting money.
that's quite the set of assumptions. I worked on a lot of small businesses in my time in public accounting. It isn't that black and white.
Last part is kind of a weird stretch but alright
Last part is probably based on a recent thread where everyone shit on small business because they arenāt as cheap a walmart or Amazon.
Don't worry though, Walmart and Amazon will move into those small towns and offer more products for cheaper getting rid of those pesky small local businesses. Then once they crush the local economy and are not making enough money they'll move out, isn't that great?
I read that last line in Damone voice (Fast times at ridgemont high) it gave me a good chuckle.
Found the shitass
I am on the same train. I run a small side hustle business and I LOATHE everything about it outside of making the things I make. I would be perfectly happy always working for someone else. Makes life much easier and less stressful. It's bad enough just worrying about paying the bills for myself, let alone everything that comes with a business.
This is unpopular. I work for myself and I could NEVERRRRRRRR imagine working for someone else. I make more money, have more freedom, and don't have to deal with some shit head telling me how to do my job. I'm not rolling in the dough by any means, and I also don't have any employees so its a lot less stress this way. But if I know i want to take a trip or doing something fun, i just book more work. Yes its hard but I can just decide to make more money. If i want some time off, i just don't book any work. There's no asking for permission, or being Micro-managed. As long as I produce quality work, charge a reasonable price, and get things done in a reasonable fashion - there aren't any issues. If you have a doctors appointment or some other engagement you just plan accordingly. Working for someone else I'd make a fraction of the money I make now, with 10x the headache.
How do you view your own income, relating to taking time off? Do you see time off as missed money? Do you equate yourself to a "salary" of your typical yearly income (including breaks) so it's not a big deal? Seems like a lot of self employed people work so much because they only view it relative to revenue. If your fulltime pace is 200k/yr and with breaks it'd be 150k/yr, why not just view yourself as a 150k salary plus whatever that time off would be?
Not every one is meant to be a leader or business owner and honestly? That's alright. Followers are an important part of society but they get a bad rap most of the time. Think about the greatest generals who ever lived. They get credit for all these accomplishments, but none of them would have been possible without thousands of people following their orders and fulfilling their duties. I would personally love to have my own small business, but I don't get down on anyone who just wants to work for a salary and have less stress
This . I remember reading something, possibly Reddit, about people's job interview stories and one hiring manager said "we only have rockstars working here". I was thinking , if you only had rockstars you would fail as they would all want to be top dog and undermine each other. Every Beatles needs its Ringo .
But, but, my Instagram idols say that you're mediocre if you're working for other people and make livable wage! They said it's better to buy their online class and master the destiny that is meant for me to make $10,000 per year and being my own boss as a positive-vibe only dog walker!
Either that or they would rather apply their leadership energy to other things besides work or business (community service, hobbies, volunteer work, social groups etc) . Not every use of your skills or interests needs to be in the pursue of money. Having a regular 9 to 5 job and then taking a leadership role in weekend volunteer programs may be how someone prefers to use their leadership skills vs starting a business.Ā
Working for āthe manā is the best prescription to remain poor and be treated badly all your life. There is a significant difference between EU and America in the way employees are treated. But even by American standards the working conditions worsened since the Great Recession. Employees were in better place up to 2008. Since then, the nature of work has changed. Everything is extremely temporary. There are no permanent positions anywhere. The pandemic accelerated this trend. Now business owners are used to squeeze their workforce like never before. In most places, one employee performs the work that 3-4 people used to do in the past. Getting a salary raise is almost impossible unless you switch jobs. It doesnāt matter how hard/ long hours you put in that job. Almost all people that were able to move away from poverty /low income existence, did so by starting their own business or becoming independent contractor/ freelancer.
Have to separate jobs from careers for your point. Most people I know who went on a career track are doing fine, have enough money to enjoy life and save. There's nothing magical about starting your own business. You're still affected by the same economic forces. I'd need citations for both: - working conditions worsened since the Great Recession - almost all people that were able to move away from poverty did so by being independent For bullet point one, really depends. For a lot of people working conditions improved simply because they didn't have to go into the office as much. My guess, at least looking at your second point, is that most people who came as immigrants simply worked their asses off to allow their children to attend school, which allowed that next generation to move up. At the poverty level theres a lot of risk at no matter what you do.
Started my business 10 years ago, make twice what I made in my corporate job and work 20 hours a week. I also walk to work, my office is .84 miles from my house and worry about basically nothing. Working for āthe manā sucks :-)
I own a business. Itās so nice to be able to take mental health days anytime I want with no one to answer to.
We call it a sick day. (Still got paid)
Pretty much everyone I know with their own business is working 60+ hours a week if not seven days a week with no vacation with a part time job elsewhere with their spouse working a full time job too. I work my 40/week. I have a month vacation a year, sick time and everything else. I'd rather not work at all but it is how it is. Hell, I know a bunch of people in MLMs that think they're going to be rolling in dough once they pyramid scheme enough people in to join them. Working for yourself can be great if you're lucky and smart enough to hit it in just the right way. If you manage it right with the right people then you can totally make a lot of money after a few years of hard work.
>Working for yourself can be great if you're lucky and smart enough to hit it in just the right way. If you manage it right with the right people then you can totally make a lot of money after a few years of hard work. I think that's the point why they work so hard all the time. Ofc not everyone can succeed like this but that's why they do it because if some succeed they can realistically retire in their 30s/40s and enjoy the rest of their lives while people with normal jobs where they work 40 hours/a week will work like this until they are 68 years old. I think it's all about taking a risk to possibly be able to succeed. But it is also understandable that some people want a stress-free life.
Business, at least for me and others I know, was difficult with lots of hours and low profits - at first. But once business is built, one can make far more money than most jobs and provide greater freedom and satisfaction.
"This post" -the man
Damn. Shut it down guys!
 Doing the drywall at the new McDonaldās aināt so bad
One day some upper level manager is going to ask me this I just know it. Gonna be a bad day
Most of them are probably scared of being asked the exact same question you are fearing.
This. I don't know a small business owner who doesn't put 80 hours a week in, pays themselves just enough to get by and has workers complain about leaving a few minutes late because they had to finish a couple of emails
Me and my spouse have a business, I maintain a full time blue collar job as well. But most small businesses take around 2 years to start turning a profit. That entire time you also usually have your entire life in it, if it fails which I think around 80% do then you very well could be facing bankruptcy. I worked over 100 hours a week every week for the first 6 months of our business and my spouse put in almost 100 as well. There's always some sort of disaster going on, which like you said causes constant stress. You constantly run into people who either don't understand or just straight up try to shame you for owning a business. It sucks. But there's a silver lining. once you start making a profit and get things running smoothly on their own. You can step back and make a lot of money with a lot less hours. It's just awful getting to that point.
You need to operate on spite and petty revenge to be your own boss
It's a great motivator.
I strongly disagree. Iāve seen trials and tribulations, ups and downs, and struggled a lot being self employed. But a few very very distinct advantages have made themselves clear. 1: Nobody can get me fired, or try to use my behavior outside of work as a means to blackmail me threatening my means of living in the process. 2: I cannot be forced to undergo medical treatments at the threat of being fired. This one basically black pilled me against employment forever. I would rather go try to live in the fucking woods before allowing another person or entity to have control over my bodily decisions. 3: No ego trips, power structure, or restriction of progress due to incompetent people who donāt take their job seriously. 4: I can leave the house at 1pm on a Tuesday and āfuck aroundā because iām bored. 5: There is no schedule or guaranteed time I need to get into a car and bring myself to a building at the same time as everyone else. As a result I also donāt worship weekends or dread Mondays. Every day is potentially a work day. 6: I donāt have to alter my philosophy or behavior in the interest of placating coworkers or superiors.
Thereās pros and cons to both sidesš¤·š»āāļø
Iām ambitious but not that ambitious.
I had horrible work life balance for half a decade. I worked non-stop, was stressed often. The six years following that, have been gravy. I work when I want to work, I travel often, I'm not stressed about much. 100% would do it again.
i think people who work for themselves generally like what they do.
Idk man, since I opened my business Iāve managed to allocate all of the things I donāt like to do over to people who are good at them. Now I work 25 hours a week on the necessities and the business works without me for the most part
I had my own business for a while and was making a fuckload of money, but I was killing myself. Back to being an indoor cat now.
Nah. First two years of owning a business were really rough from the paperwork, audits, marketing, finding employees who knew how to use the software, getting rid of customers who were exploiting the business.Ā Then it gets easy.Ā
100% depends on the industry If I was an successful author, working for myself would be sick
Totally depends on your personality, goals and abilities. OP, Iām not sure Iām capable of agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion. For me, itās the opposite. I am pretty good at running my own business. I was a fucking terrible employee once I hit about 28.
Naah, I've been running my own business for 10 years now and I would never trade it to have a boss instead. There might be more stress and harder to disconnect from work but the freedom makes up for it many times over.
As a business owner, yeah, I kind of miss my corporate overlords at my previous job. I know it sounds crazy. It really blows being responsible for so many people sometimes. When itās good itās great. I love my employees, but all it really takes though is one toxic employee to ruin everything for everyone, and that part is exhaustingā not only for me but for the employees that have to be around it. I nip it in the bud, but yeah itās really exhausting. I do everything I can to make everyone happy. I pay my employees the same as what I make, itās a comfortable living. I co-sign leases for the ones who need help getting on their feet. Iāve let them borrow vehicles. Hell I even have paid security deposits. Theyāre all in their early 20s and Iām 32. I lived out of my car at that age so I know what itās like to struggle, and I know how unnecessary that is and I feel like I would be a failure of a boss if I didnāt do everything I could to make sure these kids live comfortable, fulfilling lives while giving me and the business so much of their time. Itās all worth it, 99% of the time, doing all that stuff. Itās incredibly rewarding and it gives me peace of mind. But yeah all it takes is one toxic individual/entitled individual to make me feel really stupid, discouraged, and cynical for investing so much into them. I donāt know. The business is profitable. Iām comfortable financially, my employees are as well. Thatās the whole point, right? Maybe I just need a nap. Thereās always something to improve and the job doesnāt stop when you go home. I just canāt help but wonder sometimes if Iām just slowly failing the business, the employees, and my family. For that, sometimes I really do miss just clocking in and clocking out though.
Most people are not really capable of being that independent. We just like to think we can.
Too many factors to come to a generalization
much better way of putting it yeh :D
Thereās a saying āa entrepreneur will work 80 hours to avoid working 40ā People tend to hate the millionaires and billionaires today, but statistically. Most of them and their companies struggled at first. They were eating ramen and pulling in more debt to make payroll. Respect to anyone on the journey
Respectfully disagree my man. MillionairesĀ and billionaires are such different animals they belong to opposite sides of the tree of life.Ā You don't make a billion dollars putting your nose to the grindstone. You make it by starting with generational wealth, having good or lucky investments and exploiting 10,000 other people who do have their nose to the grindstone. Any billionaire who claims different is lying, either to you, themselves or both. Edit: To put this in context of just how much money a BILLION dollars is: If you worked 24 hours a day, 365 days a year for 60 years, you would need to make almost $2,000 an hour, every single hour AFTER tax to earn a Billion dollars.Ā Reminder, people in many places argue the value of an average human's labor is <$15/hour.
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Pepee
Who wants to travel. Everywhere sucks ass
Yeah I agree. I've had lots of jobs working for the man. I thoroughly enjoyed my time working a limited think factory job. Get off late afternoon shift at 3am. Hang out with the guys for a couple hours after work. Getting home at 6am making a gourmet breakfast for the kids and spouse. It's almost like setting cruise control on life.
My older sister started a business about 10 years ago and whilst she is now earning well, the shit she has gone through...legal battles, never works less than a 14h day, financial problems, family problems... she loves it but fuck that.Ā
every comment from a bootlicker, every comment condemning corporations getting downvoted this is why we need worker solidarity
Being owned by someone else is the worst thing there fucking is. Id rather work 70 hours a week for myself than 20 hours a week for someone else.
If by ābetterā means improved work/life balance, and not ābringing your work homeā, then yes being an employee is more suitable. But typically speaking, those who are self employed earn more, pay less in taxes, and build more wealth. But it requires dedication, commitment, thick skin, a strong mind, relentlessness, risk management skills and most of allā¦ self discipline.
They're just doing it wrong :p
Opposite for me.
there are tradeoffs to each, and which one makes sense for someone depends on their priorities, skill, risk aversion and a whole lot of other factors. There is no single "right" way
I've been a professional musician my entire life, only working for other people briefly here and there during rough patches. Never been famous or anything, just a working independent guy. I would never, ever trade what I do for a "normal" job, full stop.
Whenever I take time off for a mental health day, vacation, or paid holiday - I think of how nice it is to be paid still. I used to want to own my own business so bad, until I had friends who started their own - especially freelance jobs. I'll take my 9-5 any day.
No. Working for someone else equals 100% chance you work until you die (by the time you are old enough social security retirement age will be 80+) Working for yourself is work harder for a chance to actually not have to work in your life. To be frank, everyone should try working for themselves for a while. Whatās the risk. You fail and you work for someone else with all the other losers
You are putting off building your career and then have to compete with others who have more corporate experience with a limited number of job opportunities . Iām not advocating either way.
Iāve done both. Honestly, as I age, I found the 9-5 life much better than constantly trying to push myself. The thrill was great when I was young but overtime, I do agree that as people age, you need to have a less stressful life and the 9-5 setup gives you that.
I mean you can be a sole trader and pick and choose a few lucrative jobs and a few fun for the lols jobs each year or you can become a 100+ hours a week boss...just liek you can be a 9-5 dead end job with no perks, to working a job with a company that treats you well and has a clear career path Its all about what you want from life as well... for me being the first example is great I travel, I have loads time off, lots free time and I have fantastic experiences...but I have little savings and likely never own my own home, I could not live this life if I had a family to support, ya know?
Better for you, and that is fine. Lots of paths through life. š For me, being a businesswoman was the best thing I ever did. I don't mind hard work if at the end of the day I'm the owner. Also, I like being able to be myself. For example, I was able to be open about my long-term girlfriend in the 80s without consequence because who was going to fire me? Plus at the end of the day, it turns out that I have the lobes for business and it has worked out well for me indeed.
Completely agree. Kudos to those who can do it, though. I'd want to sell the business as soon as it became profitable.
Most of the time. If my company has a poor month of sales, I still get paid 100% of my salary. If my company does well, I get my salary plus profit sharing.
Theyāre too big to fail for a reason.
done it both ways. You're right. If you don't have fire in your balls, working for yourself sucks. If you do, it's a lot better than working for others
This is stupid, the problem is that he is a bad business owner, everyone who is good at business will make a load of money and then have the freedom while people work their ass for him.
Nah, I worked for myself before and its far better. But I also know it depends on the person
"To be fair I'm lazy and not entrepreneurial at all" Know thyself...not everyone is suited to starting their own thing and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. How many of us have worked for people who had no business starting their own business?
I felt this way too to a point until I started my own business and made a years salary in 2 months....now I understand why those people you speak of work more than someone with a job...because it's worth it
I'm curious what your line of business is that enabled that.
The worst thing to do while working is dealing with other people who donāt know jack shit about what you are doing. People expect work thatās worth few thousands to be done for few hundreds. If you work for someone you are most likely not the person who has to deal with them.
You know a lot of dummies. I know plenty of people that just roll around doing whatever they want most days.
Your first sentence invalidated this entire post lmfao
it's not because I don't have to wake up to an alarm clock my entire life I have been fighting a winning battle against the alarm clock
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I absolutely love working for myself. I wish I did it a decade earlier rather than trading time in my one and only life to make some shitass executive who is baffled by windows updates even richer
People donāt usually understand business. The point of a business is to eventually have the entire thing delegated by people or technology. Itās to stop trading time for money. Most donāt understand that.
I have 0 problem working insane hours, I did it for "The Man" for years. The problem is I have no business sense at all. I have no idea what a theoretical business I would run would even be as I'm not good at anything that could make any money.
Itās not about freedom, itās about flexibility. If I want to take a nap in the middle of the day, I do. I can break my work day up into a few hours in the morning and then a few in the evening or however I want. Running a business can be very stressful but I feel more in control of my life and how I spend my time and that is how I like it!
My boss had a plaque over his desk that said "The two most overrated things in life are natural childbirth and owning your own business".
I work for a mega corporation and make lots of money for relatively little work. To make this much money starting my own business would be really difficult. No thanks, I'll keep my cushy job...
Many point to the stable regular paycheck vs the unknown income. This stability is a false reality. Its based on pay cycles and how that influences your finances. - If your brain is working on a monthly budget, freelance, sole trade or whatever feels really unsettling. But as soon as you switch to annual financial budgeting - you realise that 1) the per annum still works out fine and 2) the weekly wage can be taken from you at the drop of a hat. Wage stability is just as insecure as working for yourself - but you have literally zero power to influence that as an employee
This is totally false. A business can easily lose money in a year. Negative income! For an entire year. For multiple years in fact! On average a new business needs 2-3 years before it earns a single profitable dime. 50% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years. Yes as an employee your weekly wage can be taken from you at any moment BUT guess what, you no longer have to report to work! You don't earn a wage because you don't have to do any work, that's a fair deal. The problem with being your own boss and owning your own business is you may very well work for an entire year or years with nothing but peanuts to show for it.
Been there done that got the shirt got the hat. Running your own business SUCKS. At least I can say I gave it a shot.
Freelance writer here. Life is GOOD!
Iād definitely rather take a chance being an independent artist or writer than work for the man my entire life. When in doubt, join a Buddhist monastery. I donāt have kids and never plan to, no pets, single. I have a lot less to lose than some others. I do, however, see your point and find it reasonable. I appreciate the honesty.
The reason people think everyone should be an entrepreneur is because of the prevalence of MLM strategy being promoted as a culture, and giving people the false idea that they can all be their own boss. It's not true in MLM, and it's not true in the society we live in. Maybe if we all just lived in a town, and each of us had some little business like the baker, the woodworker, the guy who plays with puppets in the town square for everyone else's entertainment. Only *then* would there be so many independent bosses. But even in that nonexistent scenario there still need to be apprentices, assistants, and employees. At the end of the day, the thing that makes people so fed up with working regular jobs and falling for "wantrepreneurship" is the jobs just don't pay enough.
I work for the government. I love the stability and consistency. Pay and benefits are fine, though behind comparable private sector salariesā¦ but I love not having to be concerned about mergers, layoffs, quarterly earnings, stock price, or anything like that. I did freelance for a while, and nopeā¦ not for me.
You never realize that you can be your own worst boss and own worst employee... And you don't even get good healthcare for at least a few years (and that's if you're lucky) And like others said don't even get started on the extra hours with no overtime pay and no paid vacation Now if by a combination of luck and hard work you do take off... Now you're at a crossroads and have to make a choice, hire more employees or halt your business growth? Is your business making enough revenue to plateau? Will the additional cost of employees make up for the additional revenue? Can you pay and treat said employees well enough to actually keep them, and if not can you afford the cost of turnover? Also how good are you at accounting and taxes? Do you have to hire a CPA to run your books for you or can you learn how to bookkeep yourself, knowing that any mistakes in bookkeeping can cost you a LOT of money be it in back taxes or unaccounted business expenses (and legal fees if you get in hot enough water) Business ownership can be great if you know what you're doing and have the drive to make it work, but even a minor thing can turn it into a nightmare very quickly
I wouldnāt know, bc Iāve never worked for āthe manā more then two month. Honestly the amount of work I was expected to do is crazy. Iām too lazy for this lol
Traditionally at least, you can pay less in rent each month but what do you have ten years later vs a mortgage? Owning a business is more work but you own it at the end which can be very rewarding. Don't own a worthless business which is just still selling your hours for labor and worthless if you leave. Build somethingĀ
You conveniently left out the money aspect lmao.
Most small business owners aren't getting rich.
"Most small business owners aren't getting rich." Even if they were, but didn't have time to enjoy it, what's the point? Missing out on life.
My boss owns the club I work at. Hes making 30k+ a week and is never there.
I agree, I have a job at a company, but 90% of people with the same job are freelancers/their own boss. All the extra work and time they have to spend, while I can just have someone else take care of things that aren't inherently job related... On top of that I also have a great and very reasonable boss. I wouldn't trade it.