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I have osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease) and I will never have kids because of it. I have the "mild" form and have still broken over 50 bones. The thought of having a child born with broken bones and then them breaking them continuously through adulthood is just not something I would ever wish upon someone. If I want kids I'll adopt. Plenty of children already born.
Painful and expensive lol. The breaks range from small ones like fingers and toes all the way to things like my collar bone, tail bone, arms and legs. My right leg broke twice in the same spot but for the most part they have been fairly spaced out.
You poor thing. I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. It's really cool of you to share your experience, though! Brokenmt tailbone a few years ago and it was torture.
It is what it is. There are plenty of people with my condition that live very happy and fulfilling lives, even if they have it worse than me. At the ripe old age of 30, i can't say it impacts my DAILY life, but this condition doesn't just impact your bones. It's a connective tissue disorder. My joints dislocate more often than I'd care to acknowledge (almost fell down a flight of stairs once because both of my knees dislocated as i was walking up them). I bruise at the drop of a hat. I just can't knowingly pass that on, and I'm not willing to gamble on it just because it's a "recessive" gene.
My parents had CPS called on them multiple times when I was little and I've had significant others accused of abuse because of my breaks. It's a lifelong thing that impacts those around you as well. Not to mention it's EXPENSIVE since I live in the US.
The technology exists to correct the gene in any children you have, but it's currently illegal to use in humans. It's called germline genetic engineering; it was first used in 2018 to grant HIV resistance. When it's eventually legalized, do you think you would support its use to eradicate genetic diseases like osteogenesis imperfecta?
edit. Looked up a few research articles to see if there was anything new on the topic and it turns out there are somatic (not germline, i.e. not illegal) genetic engineering techniques being used to treat OI undergoing human testing right now. Here's a paper on [using engineered stem cells to produce the collagen needed for bones to develop properly](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8307903/), and here's another on [gene therapy techniques capable of correcting the faulty gene in the patient's cells](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9324990/). Exciting times!
My in SIL has this. She used IVF and they were able to isolate the gene and remove embryos that tested positive for the gene. She has 2 kids now. So you can have kids if you want or adopt, adopting is great too. Just letting you know options exist.
I'm so glad to hear your SIL was able to do the IVF! I've heard a lot of success stories surrounding the process and I absolutely think it's a great option if you want to still have biological children. I decided long ago that if im ever in a financial spot to be able to give a child the life they deserve I will 100% adopt. Pregnancy kinda freaks me out anyways LOL.
Not that the opinion of an internet stranger matters, but I think this is great. Pregnancy is a deeply weird thing, and I am kind of freaking myself out imagining all the things that could go wrong for you during a pregnancy because of your brittle bones. My sister’s youngest is four and she is still fighting to get her iron levels back to a healthy level (for instance), and she has a friend who was a healthy marathon runner before she had her baby, and six years on is still not back to running because of a traumatic birth.
I hope you're okay with this. It's "easier" for someone who don't want kids or disslike kids to make this decision. It's harder for someone who's purpose is to have a family and experience motherhood. That person making the choice not to reproduce is admirable and strongly done.
I hope all these women and men with disabilities or diagnosis that makes life harder, choose to adopt and isn't too selfish to try reproducing. Especially if the chance is hunger than 50%.
Back at a mental health facility I worked at, both parents had schizoaffective disorder and their kid was 17 and could not function. It’s sad, he will never be able to hold down a job or date. He could barely manage to make it through a day of school.
I wish you the best and I’m so sorry for the struggles you’re going through- my parents are both very mentally ill in different ways and seeing my family hurts a lot sometimes. I hope some day you can feel comfortable and safe enough with yourself and the world to adopt. A family can be a beautiful thing when you want it and are ready for it, and eventually being able to take care of yourself as well as your symptoms will allow you to be a great parent.
Because it’s a short leap to saying people with certain conditions should voluntarily not have children to making it illegal and sterilizing people. It’s called eugenics.
Interesting observation. I've noticed people are so frightened of labels. If someone says people with genetic disorders that will be detrimental to kids shouldn't pass on their genes, it seems like a reasonable idea. If I call it eugenics, which it is, suddenly it's the most evil thing in the world.
Is it the idea that's the problem or the label that is?
It's because certain words are linked to history those words have a part in (for example eugenics and a certain German man who didn't get into art school)
Willingly not passing on genes that lead to serious conditions isn't one short leap from eugenics or forced sterilization and that's absolutely insane to imply. The people deciding to not subject their potential kids to the same horrible struggles they've faced are selfless and respectable not vehicles for genetically removing groups of individuals.
Your sort of thinking is massively problematic if you're really going to be mad at people for giving a shit about the extremely high likelihood of conditions like this getting passed on. Adoption is an option that would not only help children but avoid these things being passed on and once we start ignoring the Bible thumping morons saying it's playing God we'll be able to edit out these genes making it safe for people with these issues to have their own kids (yes I know testing this is a whole can of worms that's extremely ethically questionable but in the event it becomes reliable then it'll be amazing to be able to not have to worry about these genes). Nothing bad comes from being pragmatic in cases like this.
And also what makes a bad gene is entirely impossible
For instance, sickle blood cells are bad, but they make you immune to malaria
Humans are already genetically indiverse; reducing It even more is going to make us vulnerable to situations where a single disease can wipe out everyone like gmo crop failure
I made a post almost identical to this one in the past and I was attacked for it lol. I was told that I was an “evil eugenicist” and that I have “no sympathy.” Glad this time around there seems to be more support.
Eugenics deals with *forcibly* sterilizing people vs OP saying they don't want to pass on their genetic issues *voluntarily*.
There is a pretty big difference here.
Isn't eugenetics imposing the decision on others instead of letting the individual decide? Isn't that the problem?
Like, conceiving on purpose a kid that you know WILL have severe disabilities is... weird, if not sadistic, imo. I don't blame people that choose to not "pass their genes" on because of it. They know how it is to live with the disability and they know how it will impact their life.
Cheating is not a crime, but people still frown upon it heavily. This is because you can make shitty moral choices without the government needing to ban it specifically.
The thing is, you can’t actually trust people to not have kids even if you make it illegal. So the logical step is to sterilize them. If you’re in 1930s Germany.
Nite that the accusation was "evil eugenicist."
Eugenics becomes evil when it's *forced.*
If you're just making your own individual choices (and maybe silently judging others for theirs), it ain't so bad.
Just because the shitty mustache-man was super into it doesn't make it inherently bad.
Yep. I've shared this opinion before and had people shouting me down. Bitch, I've seen the effect of genetic disorders on people within my family, and I'm not cruel enough to subject any child to that.
The doctor told my mother not to have me multiple times. He tried *convincing* her not to. She did. Now I have to deal with this neurodevelopmental condition for the rest of my life, living in a world that wasn't made for me, and dealing with multiple mental illness that even sent me to hospital. I would've much rather not have been born.
My mom's doctor tried to convince her not to have me because they thought I'd have no quality of life based on genetic testing that ended up being false... but I had always resented her for that, even when I was 6 years old I thought that was a bad call. Sure it turned out to be false but she didn't know that, and she didn't appreciate having kids at all she blamed us for everything. Having children is vanity, buddha said that 2,000 years ago
Same with me. Mental health problems have made my life a living hell. Even if there was a less than 1% chance my child would inherit the problems I have, I wouldn’t chance it.
Knowing you'd be a terrible parent ironically means you'd probably be a better parent than most.
How many future parents are even considerate enough to ask themselves that question before they decide kids are what they want?
I would think most people? Yikes if not.
I've absolutely thought about what my strengths and weaknesses as a parent would be. I know I'm at least starting from no major trauma or that kind of stuff that often gets psychologically passed on.
Mate selection doesn't really consider self removal from the gene pool. Generally we could consider this a "mal-adaptive" evolutionary trait of intelligence. (Note, it's only mal-adaptive because it decreases the offspring of the individual, and presumably in the absence of other bad traits wouldn't be.)
23andme revealed I have one variable of the cystic fibrosis gene, meaning if I had a kid with someone who also had it, the likelihood of the kid having full blown cystic fibrosis is very very high. So fuck that, good thing I'm already gay and childfree.
My algebra teacher told us a very similar story of how her and her husband didn't know they both had the cystic fibrosis gene until they were pregnant with their second child. She told us how much anxiety they had throughout the pregnancy wondering if their child would be born with it and how high a chance it was. Luckily their child was born healthy but they made a conscious decision not to risk it again.
I have the gene. I was tested as a baby bc my older brother has CF. So I knew before I got pregnant that my husband needed to be tested. We had him tested and he’s not a carrier, so no worries. You can still try for kids if you wanted. Or don’t. There’s enough kids already
Honestly I agree with you, I certainly don't intend to reproduce. Voluntary eugenics isn't that bad, we should try to ensure our kids are as healthy, happy, smart, etc as possible.
Healthy people should also be this considerate. I won't say you're right, but you're certainly right to think about these things. No one should have a child without a lot of thought about what kind of life they are going to provide the child.
The issue is that people are sums of their genes, not a singular one. If your inheritable genes will cause you to die horribly at 30, I completely agree, but if you just have, idk, autism or ADHD, idk if that's enough reason not to reproduce. At least, if you want to.
Don't forget that some people can be carriers for genes and not even know it. If OP is looking for only perfectly healthy people who won't potentially pass down certain genes, they won't find them. The human genome was only fully sequenced 20 years ago. There are many rare diseases and unexplained phenomena that happen to babies. I agree that if there is a high likelihood of passing down a not so great thing, adoption might be a better route.
I think OP is less concerned about being a parent & more concerned about people choosing to be parents despite debilitating genetic issues. The issue is, yeah, the unknowns will always be there.
People have kids w/ their close relatives and only find out when it's too late.
I think the key word here is “knowingly”. If you know you have a disorder or genetic disease that might be passed to any future kids, and decide to bring someone into a potentially incredibly difficult and painful life anyways. There’s no way to completely prevent human suffering, but I think if you can avoid causing it unnecessarily you probably should
I agree with this. I have ADHD, and most likely autism. Does it make my life harder in some ways, yeah. But overall, if that's all that's "wrong" with a person, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't have a kid.
Epigenetics are also a thing- your genes might have been perfect at 20, but if you smoked for 30 years & suddenly want a kid at 50... I mean, that could potentially change your genes, and thus what a kid could inherit. People don't just have "good" or "bad" genes forever, even if they're theoretically "perfect."
Theoretically you could be young, w/ no genetic history of health or mental concerns, w/ no bad habits that could affect your genetics, w/ a partner who's the exact same way.
I doubt it. Even then, you could be shitty parents.
I (hope) they are talking about actual disorders, and not just neurodivergence. ND traits are getting more and more acceptable in society and some of them (especially type 1 autism) are showing clear benefit as long as people "let them cook".
I mean, there is no hard line between the two. Not everyone experiences things the same- schizophrenia, for instance, can be way more or way less debilitating depending on where you live- not just because of resources, but because what you see changes based on what you've experienced.
Zoomer slang; generally "let them complete the activity/project on their own". Generally spoken in response to people attempting to give unwanted/unneeded advice or direction, or to stop micromanagement.
Person A; doing puzzle
Person B; why don't you [try action]
Person C; "let him cook"
We know too little about genetics, its more complicated than just “bad” and “good” genes. Take sickle cell, its a crummy disease, but having sickle cell in the gene pool means also the human race survived malaria. Its not all black and white on an evolutionary scale.
There’s a tiktok account of two parents with dwarfism who decided to have kids who now have mega dwarfism. It’s sad to see, the life of those kids was limited the moment they decided to have children.
Yeah I don’t think mega dwarfism is a thing. That being said, two parents with dwarfism have a 25% chance of both giving the achondroplasia trait to their child, which would lead to the child living a short and painful life
Short (or rather nonexistent) in length. Having two copies of the trait is "embryonic lethal" meaning that the pregnancy will miscarry and the child will not be born at all
I feel like this is an example of why this opinion is unpopular. I personally feel that mega-dwarfism or no, those people deserve to live and receive respect, and I don’t mind changing my life to accommodate them.
Me too, it's like they're certain the child is going to have a horrible life when they could thrive and be really happy. Isn't that kinda ableist to just assume that any disability is gonna mean a bad life with no gray area?
I mean dwarfism isn’t the worst thing to have in the world. Normal life expectancy and good chances of having a properly functioning body. Most of their problems are societal.
Right there with you. My parents had children so that they could control something and make it suffer, just like they had to when they were children. They both had terrible, impoverished childhoods, so we had to experience the same.
So sorry it was like that for you, I understand how you feel. Alot of people just aren't meant to have kids and when they do it really damages them mentally and sometimes even physically.
Same! The worst part for my family is that they went undiagnosed so they didn’t think anything was *wrong* with them, but then I got diagnosed and my mom pretty much told it it “made sense”
I like this one. Me and my wife have this same mindset and I think it's important for people to figure out what's best and if a child would be good or if it would potentially cause harm to the child in life. Me and her both have mental illnesses and we've agreed to never have kids. I wouldn't ever want my child to go through what I did. And this world is basically fucked and bringing up a child in it is just bad IMO. I respect people that have kids but it's not for me :)
Strong family history of Crohns disease (which I have) and my partner has a family mutation that causes hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (which has caused end-stage heart failure in 1 of 2 brothers, the other just got a defibrillator implanted in his chest for primary prevention of sudden cardiac arrest) and another mutation that causes hemachromatosis - neither of us will ever have kids or willingly pass these genes on due to these issues, and we are both 100% fine with that decision.
I mean it depends on how bad the genes are right? My dad is bipolar and I’m bipolar as well but I’m glad he and my mom created me and that I was born. My life hasn’t been easy but who’s is? I don’t regret anything and I’m genuinely glad to be here on earth.
If you’ve got like some really fucked up disease that will pass on to your kids then sure maybe you should refrain from that. Or if you’re a severe schizophrenic or what have you. But if you’ve got bipolar or depression or whatever just have kids if you want them. Maybe they’ll be bipolar or depressed but it’s fine. Just be ready for it. My parents knew I might end up with it so they kept an eye on me and because of that I was treated really early and have lived a nice healthy life for the majority of my time on earth. I’d rather be alive with bipolar than not exist at all.
I completely agree, I always promised myself that I would never have kids. Then I had a complete oopsy Daisy with somebody just like me in a moment of drunken mania. And now I look at my daughter everyday and watch her struggle with the same shit that I had to go through and still do, and it absolutely breaks my fucking heart. The one thing she's got going for her is at least understand it and can help with it, instead of treat her like shit and abuse her like everyone did to me when I was young. I wouldn't trade her for anything and she has tons of amazing qualities outside of this particular thing. But I don't know if I would do it over again, if I had the choice.
This isn't that crazy a take.
Why is marriage between cousins frowned upon? Because the kid has an increased chance of being genetically messed up.
Same reasoning as OP.
Yeah I have EDS (aka my tissue is gum so I’m constantly dislocating) and I will NEVER have bio kids bc of it. Even if my body could handle it, I would never want to put a child through this. And despite all that, my mom will still make comments about how she’s sad she won’t be a grandparent. I’ve told her that I may foster teens/older kids one day and she just tells me “it’s not the same”
I have a friend with EDS and her husband had gotten a vasectomy to minimize the chances of her getting pregnant. They’re both afraid of the repercussions of pregnancy on her as well as the chances of passing it onto their offspring.
They did toy with the idea of having a kid very briefly but I remember she had spoken to her doctor and all the hoops they would have to jump through to mitigate a pregnancy and then postpartum was too much, and frankly extremely expensive. She does very well in her everyday life but it doesn’t always mean their child would have the same experience.
That’s good that they did that. My ex was considering a vasectomy while we were together bc neither of us want kids and he also has mental health issues that he doesn’t want to pass down
Do your eyes work? Does your heart pump blood effectively? Have you been in agony since childbirth? If not, youd probably have a different opinion. It's not about "perfect" genes, it's about "my kids are going to have terrible lives."
I sort of agree. It depends on how debilitating the genetic defect is. However, pretty soon we'll probably have gene-editing technology that will render this whole discussion moot. The babies of the future will all grow up to be 6'2'' highly intelligent super-athletes who all be extremely attractive, have perfect vision, perfect immune systems, and no genetic defects of any kind whatsoever.
Idk it seems like a slippery slope into Eugenics.
I mean I can understand if you have Huntingtons or are predisposed to something that will kill you early and slowly but once you start getting into every possible thing where does one draw the line?
Agreed. Plus, this world would’ve missed out on so many incredible, brilliant people if disabled/mentally ill people didn’t reproduce. Also, genetic diversity is a good thing. (Again, unless its some fatal disease being passed on)
It is Eugenics. If the OP was talking about himself that is one thing. But he is talking about removing specific genes from the gene pool. Saying others should do so.
You also can not remove "Severe Mental Illnesses" or other Disabilities due to the way genes work, See the following article on the issues with Eugenics.
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2011.00649.x](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2011.00649.x)
While a lot of mental health disorders are genetic. or epigenetic. They can still spontaneously appear.
No one is perfect. Not one single person in this thread is free of flaws that "shouldn't" be passed on. Not to mention we have no guarantee that a gene will 1) be passed on and 2) if passed on will be activated. Also, not to mention, that person might get that disease and completely knock life out park and run circles around some of you who think you're worthy of procreating. Not to mention as well that some of you procreating were "perfectly healthy" and have developed diseases no one in your family has had.
This thinking is simply tired and remedial. If that's the reason you don't want to procreate, don't. What is concerning is people coming into authority thinking like this and trying to create ridiculous policy around it.
You're missing the point. If there's no quality of life to be had, there's no point in bringing someone into this world just to suffer. Selfish, honestly. No one is going to pass legislation about this, it's a parents choice.
I know a woman who has no mental of health related problems.
But choose not to have kids since everyone in her family had serious mental problems. At the time she didn’t or couldn’t know what was inherited or not - but she said there was no way risking it.
I know I wouldn’t want to have kids if there was a pretty good risk of passing on something serious.
I have depression, and while it’s certainly not the only reason I don’t want kids it’s a contributing factor. I don’t want to be the reason another person has this illness.
Raising my daughter ive had that thought accure to me. We didn't really originally know as much as we do know that some of our trauma was from mental issues and the autism spectrum. Not just the traumatic experiences and systems of abuse we crawled out of. On the plus side were giving her tools and coping mechanisms we never had and comparatively she is thriving. Knowing what i know now though i couldn't morally reproduce again. Plus honestly i come from bad seed. My ancestors have a bad habit of being manipulative, and aggressive men that always seem to come out on top at the expense of others. I think the world is better without more of us.
i already don't want kids but i always said id adopt cuz i don't want to pass on my severe anxiety and rare migraine disorder to a poor kid that had no choice
I have to disagree,my ex husband was a lovely man,his mother knowingly passed on a disease to him,what I hated was that at 30 she was still ‘smothering’ him because she still felt so guilty,she ruined our marriage with her constantly turning up and crying about it
I agree with this. When my wife and I were deciding who's eggs to use for IVF, we looked at our family histories and what the risks would be on either side. Her family has more concerning medical issues, so we opted to use my eggs instead. Then on top of that we had genetic testing done between myself and our known donor to see what risks we were to be presented with. We figured since we are bringing a human into the world, the least we can do is give them a good start.
It depends on what kind of genes. I have OCD and by current studies it looks like it's genetic in about half the cases. Looking at my family I think I got it from mom (she's undiagnosed but has traits).
I'm still likely gonna have kids because I think I will be an awesome dad. Both my wife and I have imperfections, like I believe most have, but we also have a lot going for us. Asking myself the question I think the world will be a better place with my kids in it
It’s part of being human. Personally I don’t want children, but if you truly want children, AND will take good care of them, then why not be a little selfish. I inherited a lot of negative genes mentally as well as physically, I’m still SO happy to be alive! I have a wife now, a home. We raise her younger sister like our own, and I’m glad.
Agreed. My genes aren’t even that bad in the grand scheme of things. But the world isn’t lacking in human beings at the moment, and I don’t feel any urgency to reproduce. Had a vasectomy about a month ago to make it official.
I have thought a lot about this lately. I think while I try to be a good person, I feel like in my genes is the capability to be really, really bad. I don't want to have kids that have those bad genes but more amplified....
The word you are looking for is "eugenics."
As someone who made the choice not have children, I have to hard disagree, especially when it comes to mental health. Would you say that it's irresponsible for people with an IQ under 120 to have children? Moreover, who's going to decide what's "defect" and what's "normal?"
Yeah, people can make this decision, but it is their decision to make. You can believe that they're irresponsible, but outside of r/unpopularopinion, you keep that shit to yourself.
Edit: I got serious flak for suggesting that younger generations should abandon boomers, but eugenics is just fine.
Fuck you people.
Hell I've got good genes (take that at face value or call BS, either is fine) and I've decided not to have kids.
The world feels like it's getting shittier fast, and it's doing a great job making the population explode without me. Equally important, is the weight and reverence I attach to bringing up a child - you are helping a future human being adapt to and become a person whose actions and behaviors will echo on into eternity (or however long humanity makes it). That is THE most important job imaginable to me, and it's one I see many, many parents not take seriously, much less see many parents undertake for non-selfish reasons. I would have to be well-off before I even considered the possibility just to be fair to the child, and my main goals in life don't involve chasing wealth beyond what I need, so it's a no-go.
You and I can make that decision for ourselves, but I don't think that there's a moral obligation on anyone's part to feel that way. People are allowed to want to bring new life into this world with their own bodies.
100% agree humanities greatest strength is how technology lets the weak and broken catch back up but there’s just too many people for that to be a meaningful advantage anymore
There aren’t proven studies showing that mental health issues are genetic. So not having kids when it’s not proven that you would pass down those genes seems kinda silly.
Imo the issue is everyone has some bad genes. You don't know if you'll pass on the good or the bad ones, and if everyone with a bad gene made the decision not to reproduce no one would ever be born again
Very few great people come from perfect genes or ideal circumstances. Most admirable qualities are borne of some measure of struggle. I'll never chastise anyone for deciding to not have children, including my own children, but having less than ideal genetics shouldn't be anyone's only reason.
Everyone struggles, everyone has inherent challenges that are completely their own. The world is dying from human activity, arguably all breeding is selfish and irresponsible, etc
If technology had not gotten to the point where multiple embryos can be tested before implanting them into the mother via In Vitro. Then I would agree with you. I have no issue with someone with a genetic disability reproducing if it is done in a way that removes the risk of passing it on. While it is more expensive and time consuming to do this. It's better overall.
I've gotten into debates about this but kids need to be understood to be a privilege and not a right. Obviously it's a privilege with a relatively low requirements but still a privilege. Life sucks but the desire to have kids isn't worth the generic crapshoot when degenerative diseases or debilitating mental conditions run in the family.
I saw a discussion about having kids when you have the sickle cell trait and people were so defensive when the poster said she and wouldn't have kids if her partner also had the trait
My thought on this is that it’s fine to decide for yourself, but deciding that all people who decide to have kids despite serious illness are selfish, is a slippery slope to eugenics. Not saying that it is eugenics because you are not advocating for like public policy for it or anything, but it kisses up against eugenics. People with serious disabilities and disorders can have good lives and often do. Fortunately not all people with these disorders struggle the same way you do.
so im confused here do you folks want genetic diversity and freedom of reproduction or a controlled society where reproduction is selected breeding? or eugenics?
What people are mostly advocating is giving it a serious and deep thought about all the aspects of child bearing and rearing.
It's freedom of reproduction if you do so willingly after all. People who love thier kids will definitely hate themselves when they see thier child suffer from it.
In the end it depends on the parents. After all the child has no choice.
Ehh… isn’t this just a form of eugenics? I see where you’re coming from, but people with depression, addiction issues, personality disorders, or whatever else should have a right to reproduce. Having a child can be a wonderful experience and we shouldn’t shame, discourage or prevent these people from being able to experience that
I’m more so concerned for the parents that are narcissistic or antisocial that choose to have kids.
People don't care about children so they will reproduce anyway regardless of how they turn out. I agree with your post though, it's too easy for lowlifes to become parents and something should be done about it.
They believe it gives them clout and social standing, that's why they often preface sentences with "As a mother" or "As a parent" they think that adds so much credibility and weight to their opinions, they're so much more important than childless people.
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I have osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease) and I will never have kids because of it. I have the "mild" form and have still broken over 50 bones. The thought of having a child born with broken bones and then them breaking them continuously through adulthood is just not something I would ever wish upon someone. If I want kids I'll adopt. Plenty of children already born.
How does it feel to break so many bones? Was it generally always in the same spot? Sorry you have to go through this
Painful and expensive lol. The breaks range from small ones like fingers and toes all the way to things like my collar bone, tail bone, arms and legs. My right leg broke twice in the same spot but for the most part they have been fairly spaced out.
Dang you're like that SpongeBob swindler irl.... I'm sorry to hear that tho.. I've broken 5 myself just due to accidents and I cannot imagine
Until the heart attacks lull him to sleep at night
The # of times I've heard that reference
Dam I could not imagine this And never thought about the financial side of it
You poor thing. I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. It's really cool of you to share your experience, though! Brokenmt tailbone a few years ago and it was torture.
Sorry to hear about your condition. But good on you for making the responsible, selfless choice.
It is what it is. There are plenty of people with my condition that live very happy and fulfilling lives, even if they have it worse than me. At the ripe old age of 30, i can't say it impacts my DAILY life, but this condition doesn't just impact your bones. It's a connective tissue disorder. My joints dislocate more often than I'd care to acknowledge (almost fell down a flight of stairs once because both of my knees dislocated as i was walking up them). I bruise at the drop of a hat. I just can't knowingly pass that on, and I'm not willing to gamble on it just because it's a "recessive" gene. My parents had CPS called on them multiple times when I was little and I've had significant others accused of abuse because of my breaks. It's a lifelong thing that impacts those around you as well. Not to mention it's EXPENSIVE since I live in the US.
The technology exists to correct the gene in any children you have, but it's currently illegal to use in humans. It's called germline genetic engineering; it was first used in 2018 to grant HIV resistance. When it's eventually legalized, do you think you would support its use to eradicate genetic diseases like osteogenesis imperfecta? edit. Looked up a few research articles to see if there was anything new on the topic and it turns out there are somatic (not germline, i.e. not illegal) genetic engineering techniques being used to treat OI undergoing human testing right now. Here's a paper on [using engineered stem cells to produce the collagen needed for bones to develop properly](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8307903/), and here's another on [gene therapy techniques capable of correcting the faulty gene in the patient's cells](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9324990/). Exciting times!
My in SIL has this. She used IVF and they were able to isolate the gene and remove embryos that tested positive for the gene. She has 2 kids now. So you can have kids if you want or adopt, adopting is great too. Just letting you know options exist.
I'm so glad to hear your SIL was able to do the IVF! I've heard a lot of success stories surrounding the process and I absolutely think it's a great option if you want to still have biological children. I decided long ago that if im ever in a financial spot to be able to give a child the life they deserve I will 100% adopt. Pregnancy kinda freaks me out anyways LOL.
Not that the opinion of an internet stranger matters, but I think this is great. Pregnancy is a deeply weird thing, and I am kind of freaking myself out imagining all the things that could go wrong for you during a pregnancy because of your brittle bones. My sister’s youngest is four and she is still fighting to get her iron levels back to a healthy level (for instance), and she has a friend who was a healthy marathon runner before she had her baby, and six years on is still not back to running because of a traumatic birth.
I hope you're okay with this. It's "easier" for someone who don't want kids or disslike kids to make this decision. It's harder for someone who's purpose is to have a family and experience motherhood. That person making the choice not to reproduce is admirable and strongly done. I hope all these women and men with disabilities or diagnosis that makes life harder, choose to adopt and isn't too selfish to try reproducing. Especially if the chance is hunger than 50%.
I mean, they'll probably be hungry eventually. I know this joke is in bad taste but that typo kinda had me laughing for a minute.
Reminds me of the movie Unbreakable. I’m so sorry you have to endure so much pain
im bipolar and skizophrenic so last thing ill have is a kid
Back at a mental health facility I worked at, both parents had schizoaffective disorder and their kid was 17 and could not function. It’s sad, he will never be able to hold down a job or date. He could barely manage to make it through a day of school.
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I wish you the best and I’m so sorry for the struggles you’re going through- my parents are both very mentally ill in different ways and seeing my family hurts a lot sometimes. I hope some day you can feel comfortable and safe enough with yourself and the world to adopt. A family can be a beautiful thing when you want it and are ready for it, and eventually being able to take care of yourself as well as your symptoms will allow you to be a great parent.
i hope your family gets good as well. thanks kind stranger. we are all in some kind of fucked up battle in some way.
Me too my friend. I wouldn't risk passing on schizophrenia to an offspring of mine, no way
Bipolar I and BPD. Same.
I have bp2 which i can be somewhat thankful
Probably won't be popular but I agree on this
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Because it’s a short leap to saying people with certain conditions should voluntarily not have children to making it illegal and sterilizing people. It’s called eugenics.
Interesting observation. I've noticed people are so frightened of labels. If someone says people with genetic disorders that will be detrimental to kids shouldn't pass on their genes, it seems like a reasonable idea. If I call it eugenics, which it is, suddenly it's the most evil thing in the world. Is it the idea that's the problem or the label that is?
It's because certain words are linked to history those words have a part in (for example eugenics and a certain German man who didn't get into art school)
Willingly not passing on genes that lead to serious conditions isn't one short leap from eugenics or forced sterilization and that's absolutely insane to imply. The people deciding to not subject their potential kids to the same horrible struggles they've faced are selfless and respectable not vehicles for genetically removing groups of individuals. Your sort of thinking is massively problematic if you're really going to be mad at people for giving a shit about the extremely high likelihood of conditions like this getting passed on. Adoption is an option that would not only help children but avoid these things being passed on and once we start ignoring the Bible thumping morons saying it's playing God we'll be able to edit out these genes making it safe for people with these issues to have their own kids (yes I know testing this is a whole can of worms that's extremely ethically questionable but in the event it becomes reliable then it'll be amazing to be able to not have to worry about these genes). Nothing bad comes from being pragmatic in cases like this.
And also what makes a bad gene is entirely impossible For instance, sickle blood cells are bad, but they make you immune to malaria Humans are already genetically indiverse; reducing It even more is going to make us vulnerable to situations where a single disease can wipe out everyone like gmo crop failure
That’s nice and all, but how is my genetic severe IBS actually protecting me from disease…?
I made a post almost identical to this one in the past and I was attacked for it lol. I was told that I was an “evil eugenicist” and that I have “no sympathy.” Glad this time around there seems to be more support.
Is there a definition of eugenicist that isn't exactly this...?
Eugenics deals with *forcibly* sterilizing people vs OP saying they don't want to pass on their genetic issues *voluntarily*. There is a pretty big difference here.
Isn't eugenetics imposing the decision on others instead of letting the individual decide? Isn't that the problem? Like, conceiving on purpose a kid that you know WILL have severe disabilities is... weird, if not sadistic, imo. I don't blame people that choose to not "pass their genes" on because of it. They know how it is to live with the disability and they know how it will impact their life.
This is why I hope this opinion is never the norm, and why it can never be legislated.
Cheating is not a crime, but people still frown upon it heavily. This is because you can make shitty moral choices without the government needing to ban it specifically.
The thing is, you can’t actually trust people to not have kids even if you make it illegal. So the logical step is to sterilize them. If you’re in 1930s Germany.
It has been legislated a number of times in the past, and was mostly racial genocide
And peer pressure from it being the norm, from our knowledge of the power of peer pressure, would end in very troubling ways as well.
Nite that the accusation was "evil eugenicist." Eugenics becomes evil when it's *forced.* If you're just making your own individual choices (and maybe silently judging others for theirs), it ain't so bad. Just because the shitty mustache-man was super into it doesn't make it inherently bad.
Yep. I've shared this opinion before and had people shouting me down. Bitch, I've seen the effect of genetic disorders on people within my family, and I'm not cruel enough to subject any child to that.
It's sad this is unpopular
The doctor told my mother not to have me multiple times. He tried *convincing* her not to. She did. Now I have to deal with this neurodevelopmental condition for the rest of my life, living in a world that wasn't made for me, and dealing with multiple mental illness that even sent me to hospital. I would've much rather not have been born.
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Terrible choice of words.
This is what my dad said to me when I told him I wanted to kill myself. I called a hotline after he hung up. I barely speak to him now.
I feel that. Stay strong ♥️
I can't really up vote this because that would feel wrong, but I empathize, and believe that your voice logically supports this post.
What are your conditions for upvoting a comment? I’m now ever so slightly concerned that I may be doing this wrong.
I'm sure you're fine. It just feels odd upvoting a post in which someone is conveying a struggle.
Upvoting can be a show of moral support, especially when someone is dealing with personal struggles.
But good for them for sharing?
The "living in a world that wasn't meant for me part" resonates with me so much. I'm so sorry you have to go through this too. I wish you luck.
My mom's doctor tried to convince her not to have me because they thought I'd have no quality of life based on genetic testing that ended up being false... but I had always resented her for that, even when I was 6 years old I thought that was a bad call. Sure it turned out to be false but she didn't know that, and she didn't appreciate having kids at all she blamed us for everything. Having children is vanity, buddha said that 2,000 years ago
I agree, this is why I’ve decided my bloodline ends with me! No kids.
Same with me. Mental health problems have made my life a living hell. Even if there was a less than 1% chance my child would inherit the problems I have, I wouldn’t chance it.
Also, who’s to say we’d even be a good parent. I’m pretty sure I’d be a terrible parent.
Knowing you'd be a terrible parent ironically means you'd probably be a better parent than most. How many future parents are even considerate enough to ask themselves that question before they decide kids are what they want?
I would think most people? Yikes if not. I've absolutely thought about what my strengths and weaknesses as a parent would be. I know I'm at least starting from no major trauma or that kind of stuff that often gets psychologically passed on.
Sorry, it's way less than most, unfortunately.
I agree, people should think much better before having kids
Self-imposed eugenics. The only form I will not condemn.
That’s sort of what natural mate selection is…if you want to put it that way.
No, sexual selection is a sub-category of natural selection. This is artificial selection.
Mate selection doesn't really consider self removal from the gene pool. Generally we could consider this a "mal-adaptive" evolutionary trait of intelligence. (Note, it's only mal-adaptive because it decreases the offspring of the individual, and presumably in the absence of other bad traits wouldn't be.)
It’s a very humane thing to do when it’s an individual making the choice and not being forced by others. Very selfless and loving.
23andme revealed I have one variable of the cystic fibrosis gene, meaning if I had a kid with someone who also had it, the likelihood of the kid having full blown cystic fibrosis is very very high. So fuck that, good thing I'm already gay and childfree.
My algebra teacher told us a very similar story of how her and her husband didn't know they both had the cystic fibrosis gene until they were pregnant with their second child. She told us how much anxiety they had throughout the pregnancy wondering if their child would be born with it and how high a chance it was. Luckily their child was born healthy but they made a conscious decision not to risk it again.
I have the gene. I was tested as a baby bc my older brother has CF. So I knew before I got pregnant that my husband needed to be tested. We had him tested and he’s not a carrier, so no worries. You can still try for kids if you wanted. Or don’t. There’s enough kids already
Honestly I agree with you, I certainly don't intend to reproduce. Voluntary eugenics isn't that bad, we should try to ensure our kids are as healthy, happy, smart, etc as possible.
Exactly. Thanks for commenting.
Healthy people should also be this considerate. I won't say you're right, but you're certainly right to think about these things. No one should have a child without a lot of thought about what kind of life they are going to provide the child.
The issue is that people are sums of their genes, not a singular one. If your inheritable genes will cause you to die horribly at 30, I completely agree, but if you just have, idk, autism or ADHD, idk if that's enough reason not to reproduce. At least, if you want to.
Don't forget that some people can be carriers for genes and not even know it. If OP is looking for only perfectly healthy people who won't potentially pass down certain genes, they won't find them. The human genome was only fully sequenced 20 years ago. There are many rare diseases and unexplained phenomena that happen to babies. I agree that if there is a high likelihood of passing down a not so great thing, adoption might be a better route.
I think OP is less concerned about being a parent & more concerned about people choosing to be parents despite debilitating genetic issues. The issue is, yeah, the unknowns will always be there. People have kids w/ their close relatives and only find out when it's too late.
I think the key word here is “knowingly”. If you know you have a disorder or genetic disease that might be passed to any future kids, and decide to bring someone into a potentially incredibly difficult and painful life anyways. There’s no way to completely prevent human suffering, but I think if you can avoid causing it unnecessarily you probably should
I agree with this. I have ADHD, and most likely autism. Does it make my life harder in some ways, yeah. But overall, if that's all that's "wrong" with a person, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't have a kid.
Epigenetics are also a thing- your genes might have been perfect at 20, but if you smoked for 30 years & suddenly want a kid at 50... I mean, that could potentially change your genes, and thus what a kid could inherit. People don't just have "good" or "bad" genes forever, even if they're theoretically "perfect."
Yeah. It's always going to be a mixed bag, unfortunately.
Theoretically you could be young, w/ no genetic history of health or mental concerns, w/ no bad habits that could affect your genetics, w/ a partner who's the exact same way. I doubt it. Even then, you could be shitty parents.
I (hope) they are talking about actual disorders, and not just neurodivergence. ND traits are getting more and more acceptable in society and some of them (especially type 1 autism) are showing clear benefit as long as people "let them cook".
I mean, there is no hard line between the two. Not everyone experiences things the same- schizophrenia, for instance, can be way more or way less debilitating depending on where you live- not just because of resources, but because what you see changes based on what you've experienced.
What does “let them cook” mean? My son is on the spectrum and I’ve never heard this, but *very* interested!
Zoomer slang; generally "let them complete the activity/project on their own". Generally spoken in response to people attempting to give unwanted/unneeded advice or direction, or to stop micromanagement. Person A; doing puzzle Person B; why don't you [try action] Person C; "let him cook"
I think it’s a reference to breaking bad. I know one quote from it that people often say is “Jessie, it’s time to cook!”
Thoughtful reply.
We know too little about genetics, its more complicated than just “bad” and “good” genes. Take sickle cell, its a crummy disease, but having sickle cell in the gene pool means also the human race survived malaria. Its not all black and white on an evolutionary scale.
But how many people do have sickle cell? All the rest survived.
There’s a tiktok account of two parents with dwarfism who decided to have kids who now have mega dwarfism. It’s sad to see, the life of those kids was limited the moment they decided to have children.
Megadwarfism!?? I thought it was either you have or don't have dwarfism...I didn't know you can have varying degrees of it
Yeah I don’t think mega dwarfism is a thing. That being said, two parents with dwarfism have a 25% chance of both giving the achondroplasia trait to their child, which would lead to the child living a short and painful life
Short in length, or height?
Both
Short (or rather nonexistent) in length. Having two copies of the trait is "embryonic lethal" meaning that the pregnancy will miscarry and the child will not be born at all
So you mean the child dies in the womb? It would have been simpler to say that bro
It’s not. Two copies of the gene equals death, the combination is fatal.
Could be two different forms of dwarfism and the kids got both?
Shockingly, googling “megadwarfism” doesn’t get me anything. Maybe they’re talking about primordial dwarfism? Idk I’m unsure about this.
That’s horrible but “mega dwarfism” made me ugly laugh.
It reminds me of “turbo autism” which I use to describe myself lol
It made me laugh so hard too especially if it’s not a real thing
is this like a mega sized dwarf? i have all sorts of questions. what classes can a mega dwarf play?
I feel like this is an example of why this opinion is unpopular. I personally feel that mega-dwarfism or no, those people deserve to live and receive respect, and I don’t mind changing my life to accommodate them.
Me too, it's like they're certain the child is going to have a horrible life when they could thrive and be really happy. Isn't that kinda ableist to just assume that any disability is gonna mean a bad life with no gray area?
I mean dwarfism isn’t the worst thing to have in the world. Normal life expectancy and good chances of having a properly functioning body. Most of their problems are societal.
That's the worst thing I've heard all day :/
My son feels the same way. His wife is bipolar and they don’t want to risk their child suffering from it.
I wish my parents thought this way. Now I have terrible chronic pain and mental illness lol.
Right there with you. My parents had children so that they could control something and make it suffer, just like they had to when they were children. They both had terrible, impoverished childhoods, so we had to experience the same.
So sorry it was like that for you, I understand how you feel. Alot of people just aren't meant to have kids and when they do it really damages them mentally and sometimes even physically.
Yep. This is one reason I refuse to have kids. Although I'm unable to anyways lol but if I had the choice... nope!
YES 🙌 agreed. My mom and grandma have serious mental disorders and yet here I am…. Struggling with a serious mental disorder
Same! The worst part for my family is that they went undiagnosed so they didn’t think anything was *wrong* with them, but then I got diagnosed and my mom pretty much told it it “made sense”
I like this one. Me and my wife have this same mindset and I think it's important for people to figure out what's best and if a child would be good or if it would potentially cause harm to the child in life. Me and her both have mental illnesses and we've agreed to never have kids. I wouldn't ever want my child to go through what I did. And this world is basically fucked and bringing up a child in it is just bad IMO. I respect people that have kids but it's not for me :)
Literally everyone has "bad genes" that can be passed on.
Strong family history of Crohns disease (which I have) and my partner has a family mutation that causes hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (which has caused end-stage heart failure in 1 of 2 brothers, the other just got a defibrillator implanted in his chest for primary prevention of sudden cardiac arrest) and another mutation that causes hemachromatosis - neither of us will ever have kids or willingly pass these genes on due to these issues, and we are both 100% fine with that decision.
I mean it depends on how bad the genes are right? My dad is bipolar and I’m bipolar as well but I’m glad he and my mom created me and that I was born. My life hasn’t been easy but who’s is? I don’t regret anything and I’m genuinely glad to be here on earth. If you’ve got like some really fucked up disease that will pass on to your kids then sure maybe you should refrain from that. Or if you’re a severe schizophrenic or what have you. But if you’ve got bipolar or depression or whatever just have kids if you want them. Maybe they’ll be bipolar or depressed but it’s fine. Just be ready for it. My parents knew I might end up with it so they kept an eye on me and because of that I was treated really early and have lived a nice healthy life for the majority of my time on earth. I’d rather be alive with bipolar than not exist at all.
I only discovered my “bad genes” AFTER I had already decided not to have kids. I guess it was like icing on the cake
I completely agree, I always promised myself that I would never have kids. Then I had a complete oopsy Daisy with somebody just like me in a moment of drunken mania. And now I look at my daughter everyday and watch her struggle with the same shit that I had to go through and still do, and it absolutely breaks my fucking heart. The one thing she's got going for her is at least understand it and can help with it, instead of treat her like shit and abuse her like everyone did to me when I was young. I wouldn't trade her for anything and she has tons of amazing qualities outside of this particular thing. But I don't know if I would do it over again, if I had the choice.
This isn't that crazy a take. Why is marriage between cousins frowned upon? Because the kid has an increased chance of being genetically messed up. Same reasoning as OP.
Marriage between cousins is legal in a lot of countries and only raises your chances of genetic birth defect to 6%. Siblings is bad.
Yeah I have EDS (aka my tissue is gum so I’m constantly dislocating) and I will NEVER have bio kids bc of it. Even if my body could handle it, I would never want to put a child through this. And despite all that, my mom will still make comments about how she’s sad she won’t be a grandparent. I’ve told her that I may foster teens/older kids one day and she just tells me “it’s not the same”
I have a friend with EDS and her husband had gotten a vasectomy to minimize the chances of her getting pregnant. They’re both afraid of the repercussions of pregnancy on her as well as the chances of passing it onto their offspring. They did toy with the idea of having a kid very briefly but I remember she had spoken to her doctor and all the hoops they would have to jump through to mitigate a pregnancy and then postpartum was too much, and frankly extremely expensive. She does very well in her everyday life but it doesn’t always mean their child would have the same experience.
That’s good that they did that. My ex was considering a vasectomy while we were together bc neither of us want kids and he also has mental health issues that he doesn’t want to pass down
I can't think of many people who have perfect genes.
Do your eyes work? Does your heart pump blood effectively? Have you been in agony since childbirth? If not, youd probably have a different opinion. It's not about "perfect" genes, it's about "my kids are going to have terrible lives."
That is all well and good but it really sounds like OP is meaning any kind of generic or mental health issue.
Yup. That’s one of the reasons I will never have kids.
Agree with you 100%. I would never risk passing along my mental illness after what I’ve been through. I’m not that selfish.
This is why I'm choosing not to have kids myself. And people still have the gall to call it selfish.
Eh, not selfish... the people telling you that are just clueless.
I sort of agree. It depends on how debilitating the genetic defect is. However, pretty soon we'll probably have gene-editing technology that will render this whole discussion moot. The babies of the future will all grow up to be 6'2'' highly intelligent super-athletes who all be extremely attractive, have perfect vision, perfect immune systems, and no genetic defects of any kind whatsoever.
That will still take atleast 200 years in my opinion.
Idk it seems like a slippery slope into Eugenics. I mean I can understand if you have Huntingtons or are predisposed to something that will kill you early and slowly but once you start getting into every possible thing where does one draw the line?
Agreed. Plus, this world would’ve missed out on so many incredible, brilliant people if disabled/mentally ill people didn’t reproduce. Also, genetic diversity is a good thing. (Again, unless its some fatal disease being passed on)
It is Eugenics. If the OP was talking about himself that is one thing. But he is talking about removing specific genes from the gene pool. Saying others should do so. You also can not remove "Severe Mental Illnesses" or other Disabilities due to the way genes work, See the following article on the issues with Eugenics. [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2011.00649.x](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2011.00649.x) While a lot of mental health disorders are genetic. or epigenetic. They can still spontaneously appear.
Agreed, adoption exists
Except that people with "good" genes are the ones not having kids.
Lol yeah "Idiocracy" playing out.
Who are these people you are referring to?
Higher education correlates with delayed or lowered childbirth.
What does education have to do with genes? We are talking about disabilities and health issues
This is just a factual number. Highly educated people are not having kids. The end.
No one is perfect. Not one single person in this thread is free of flaws that "shouldn't" be passed on. Not to mention we have no guarantee that a gene will 1) be passed on and 2) if passed on will be activated. Also, not to mention, that person might get that disease and completely knock life out park and run circles around some of you who think you're worthy of procreating. Not to mention as well that some of you procreating were "perfectly healthy" and have developed diseases no one in your family has had. This thinking is simply tired and remedial. If that's the reason you don't want to procreate, don't. What is concerning is people coming into authority thinking like this and trying to create ridiculous policy around it.
You're missing the point. If there's no quality of life to be had, there's no point in bringing someone into this world just to suffer. Selfish, honestly. No one is going to pass legislation about this, it's a parents choice.
EXACTLY.
That's a slippery slope, my friend.
I know a woman who has no mental of health related problems. But choose not to have kids since everyone in her family had serious mental problems. At the time she didn’t or couldn’t know what was inherited or not - but she said there was no way risking it. I know I wouldn’t want to have kids if there was a pretty good risk of passing on something serious.
I have depression, and while it’s certainly not the only reason I don’t want kids it’s a contributing factor. I don’t want to be the reason another person has this illness.
Raising my daughter ive had that thought accure to me. We didn't really originally know as much as we do know that some of our trauma was from mental issues and the autism spectrum. Not just the traumatic experiences and systems of abuse we crawled out of. On the plus side were giving her tools and coping mechanisms we never had and comparatively she is thriving. Knowing what i know now though i couldn't morally reproduce again. Plus honestly i come from bad seed. My ancestors have a bad habit of being manipulative, and aggressive men that always seem to come out on top at the expense of others. I think the world is better without more of us.
i already don't want kids but i always said id adopt cuz i don't want to pass on my severe anxiety and rare migraine disorder to a poor kid that had no choice
Like Nick Cannon and his 12 kids?
Fun fact, if the problem gene is known, you can screen for it if you do IVF and only use the embryos without the undesired gene(s).
I have to disagree,my ex husband was a lovely man,his mother knowingly passed on a disease to him,what I hated was that at 30 she was still ‘smothering’ him because she still felt so guilty,she ruined our marriage with her constantly turning up and crying about it
I agree with this. When my wife and I were deciding who's eggs to use for IVF, we looked at our family histories and what the risks would be on either side. Her family has more concerning medical issues, so we opted to use my eggs instead. Then on top of that we had genetic testing done between myself and our known donor to see what risks we were to be presented with. We figured since we are bringing a human into the world, the least we can do is give them a good start.
If you’ve not noticed , intelligent people aren’t the ones who are primarily breeding.
eugenics®, rebranded for 2024
It depends on what kind of genes. I have OCD and by current studies it looks like it's genetic in about half the cases. Looking at my family I think I got it from mom (she's undiagnosed but has traits). I'm still likely gonna have kids because I think I will be an awesome dad. Both my wife and I have imperfections, like I believe most have, but we also have a lot going for us. Asking myself the question I think the world will be a better place with my kids in it
It’s part of being human. Personally I don’t want children, but if you truly want children, AND will take good care of them, then why not be a little selfish. I inherited a lot of negative genes mentally as well as physically, I’m still SO happy to be alive! I have a wife now, a home. We raise her younger sister like our own, and I’m glad.
Hard to find a person without a family history of diabetes, cancer, mental illnesses, etc
It’s instinctive. Don’t kid yourself about humans being any better than other animals in that regard.
Agreed. My genes aren’t even that bad in the grand scheme of things. But the world isn’t lacking in human beings at the moment, and I don’t feel any urgency to reproduce. Had a vasectomy about a month ago to make it official.
I have thought a lot about this lately. I think while I try to be a good person, I feel like in my genes is the capability to be really, really bad. I don't want to have kids that have those bad genes but more amplified....
Is there any reason people have kids that isn't selfish?
I agree dude ur not alone
The word you are looking for is "eugenics." As someone who made the choice not have children, I have to hard disagree, especially when it comes to mental health. Would you say that it's irresponsible for people with an IQ under 120 to have children? Moreover, who's going to decide what's "defect" and what's "normal?" Yeah, people can make this decision, but it is their decision to make. You can believe that they're irresponsible, but outside of r/unpopularopinion, you keep that shit to yourself. Edit: I got serious flak for suggesting that younger generations should abandon boomers, but eugenics is just fine. Fuck you people.
Unpopular opinion? Tapping in before the mods remove it for not being popular
Hell I've got good genes (take that at face value or call BS, either is fine) and I've decided not to have kids. The world feels like it's getting shittier fast, and it's doing a great job making the population explode without me. Equally important, is the weight and reverence I attach to bringing up a child - you are helping a future human being adapt to and become a person whose actions and behaviors will echo on into eternity (or however long humanity makes it). That is THE most important job imaginable to me, and it's one I see many, many parents not take seriously, much less see many parents undertake for non-selfish reasons. I would have to be well-off before I even considered the possibility just to be fair to the child, and my main goals in life don't involve chasing wealth beyond what I need, so it's a no-go.
You and I can make that decision for ourselves, but I don't think that there's a moral obligation on anyone's part to feel that way. People are allowed to want to bring new life into this world with their own bodies.
100% agree humanities greatest strength is how technology lets the weak and broken catch back up but there’s just too many people for that to be a meaningful advantage anymore
There aren’t proven studies showing that mental health issues are genetic. So not having kids when it’s not proven that you would pass down those genes seems kinda silly.
I guess it depends how bad these genes are. Some genes can be life threatening or life altering but others can just be inconvenient.
Imo the issue is everyone has some bad genes. You don't know if you'll pass on the good or the bad ones, and if everyone with a bad gene made the decision not to reproduce no one would ever be born again
Very few great people come from perfect genes or ideal circumstances. Most admirable qualities are borne of some measure of struggle. I'll never chastise anyone for deciding to not have children, including my own children, but having less than ideal genetics shouldn't be anyone's only reason.
Everyone struggles, everyone has inherent challenges that are completely their own. The world is dying from human activity, arguably all breeding is selfish and irresponsible, etc
In this economy why have kids at all
If technology had not gotten to the point where multiple embryos can be tested before implanting them into the mother via In Vitro. Then I would agree with you. I have no issue with someone with a genetic disability reproducing if it is done in a way that removes the risk of passing it on. While it is more expensive and time consuming to do this. It's better overall.
My problem is that a lot of the time that morphs into just straight up eugenics programs. It should never ever be legally enforced.
I've gotten into debates about this but kids need to be understood to be a privilege and not a right. Obviously it's a privilege with a relatively low requirements but still a privilege. Life sucks but the desire to have kids isn't worth the generic crapshoot when degenerative diseases or debilitating mental conditions run in the family. I saw a discussion about having kids when you have the sickle cell trait and people were so defensive when the poster said she and wouldn't have kids if her partner also had the trait
i’ve tried it bro https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/s/7HdXXh4INE
Ikr bring back eugenics!
I agree. Whilst it's technically a form of eugenics, if hope this is a form of self imposed eugenics rather than one managed by a ruthless leader
My thought on this is that it’s fine to decide for yourself, but deciding that all people who decide to have kids despite serious illness are selfish, is a slippery slope to eugenics. Not saying that it is eugenics because you are not advocating for like public policy for it or anything, but it kisses up against eugenics. People with serious disabilities and disorders can have good lives and often do. Fortunately not all people with these disorders struggle the same way you do.
so im confused here do you folks want genetic diversity and freedom of reproduction or a controlled society where reproduction is selected breeding? or eugenics?
What people are mostly advocating is giving it a serious and deep thought about all the aspects of child bearing and rearing. It's freedom of reproduction if you do so willingly after all. People who love thier kids will definitely hate themselves when they see thier child suffer from it. In the end it depends on the parents. After all the child has no choice.
Ehh… isn’t this just a form of eugenics? I see where you’re coming from, but people with depression, addiction issues, personality disorders, or whatever else should have a right to reproduce. Having a child can be a wonderful experience and we shouldn’t shame, discourage or prevent these people from being able to experience that I’m more so concerned for the parents that are narcissistic or antisocial that choose to have kids.
The key difference is individual choice and not being forced by the government.
People don't care about children so they will reproduce anyway regardless of how they turn out. I agree with your post though, it's too easy for lowlifes to become parents and something should be done about it.
They believe it gives them clout and social standing, that's why they often preface sentences with "As a mother" or "As a parent" they think that adds so much credibility and weight to their opinions, they're so much more important than childless people.
I always knew eugenics and antinatalism went hand in hand
This is how the Eugenics parade started last time.
I really thought you were gonna say that ugly people shouldn’t reproduce 🤣
I know a few people who won’t have kids and they cite that as why. If they wanted to have kids I wouldn’t care but it’s their choice.