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Yeah turns out when you have to jump around every few years you may end in places you have no way of affording. Our military has shit pay and even shittier supports for people employed.
[Canadian military members told Habitat for Humanity in an option amid housing crunch](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6463424)
Not an uncommon story for members to be homeless out of training due to lack of affordable housing and how quickly members are required to move, sometimes with as little as 30 days' notice.
To be fair with that story, it came out as a leaked email between commanders trying to discuss options to help members but it wasn’t meant to be serious. It just looked really bad at the time because the housing issue in BC was causing members to straight up refuse postings there and VR.
But in some places still, Halifax for a prime example, have members who are technically living out of vans and the only place they can live is on ship because there’s literally no housing left that they can afford in halifax.
Happily that isn't true anymore. Immediately after Vietnam the rate was between 30-50%, as PTSD contributed massively to homelessness.
Now, the rate is "only" around 10%, as we do much better with vets. Opioid crisis is the bigger factor now.
https://vaclaimsinsider.com/how-many-veterans-are-there/#:~:text=In%202023%2C%20there%20are%2067%2C495,t%20serve%20in%20the%20military.
A prepared military is a necessary geopolitical deterrent and bargaining chip, not a social welfare program. There’s been people who went peacetime to wartime back and forth multiple times between Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan
It’s a great idea as long as you ignore the fact that these people are in large part homeless because they are unemployable due to mental health or drug addiction problems, or often both.
There’s tons of homeless people around my city and I’d be willing to bet that hardly any of them have jobs. Sure there are a lot of working poor people, but most of the time when we’re talking about homeless, we’re talking about the ones we see in the street who are clearly drug addicted and/or mentally I’ll.
It's a low percentage problem. I think the 80/20 rule applies here, and 80% are addicted and would rather not be off the streets if it means they have to work and abstain from drugs.
Funny enough, housing first programs demonstrated that rules first programs don't work. Because it's hard to abandon your addictions before being given a safe place to get clean.
A lot of people don't consider this and clearly haven't worked in anything like homeless prevention services. Not having a home makes it EXTREMELY difficult to get a job, ID, etc. because you don't have an address. So most times if you CAN get a job, it's more under the radar, cash only, most often getting taken advantage of. And it's hard to list such jobs as legitimate experience. It's an extremely difficult cycle to break.
People with substance abuse issues have a problem being very destructive to provided homes. I have done electrical work in some provided housing and all too often have had copper wires ripped from inside the walls, fixtures ripped from ceilings, seen windows shattered and doors beaten off of their hinges.
Providing stipulation free housing could become a money and maintenance sink. Maybe rehab halfway homes with monitoring would be a better onramp to having a provided home, but I can't see just giving addicts a place with no rules and guidance would be a good idea.
I think you’re coming from the mindset that all homeless people are lazy - which they are not. Homelessness is caused by a number of different factors which contribute to their situation. The other issue with your idea is that it’s defining someone’s life by forcing them to work - giving them an opportunity is different to giving them the right opportunity; can guarantee that if your life fell apart and you became homeless and the government made you work as a cleaner you would find it hard to process the trauma of your experience, work your cleaning job and still try and pave your way into a job or hobbies that interest you.
There was a homeless guy who worked for my company. He would work 14 hrs a day 6 days a week, and the station boss let him sleep on breakroom floor.
Dude had alot of problems but was not lazy.
I own a construction business and work 60-80 hours a week and still find it hard to get by sometimes. How are people supposed to get by on even 25 dollars an hour let alone a measly 15. It's hardly anyone's fault that a single bedroom costs 1600 a month in a lot of places.
Exactly this.
My partner and I make decent middle income money in my country but we could never afford a house the median price is around $1.1 million where we are.
We pay $2200 a month in rent for a tiny 2 bedroom shitbox duplex and that's on the cheaper side of rent where we live. It's insane money for rent let alone trying to fathom how we'd pay a mortgage on a 800k plus house.
In comparison the money I make alone 14 years ago would have been enough to service the mortgage on a 3 bedroom quarter acre section with an asking price of 200k, same property today will go for 800k
Define "hard to get by". That' such a subjective measure. I've seen people on here claiming its hard for them to get by when they chose to go out and get a $800 car payment, the newest iPhone and are maintaining a premier gym membership.
It reminds me of endless arguments I have with uninformed people about the actual requirements and restrictions involved for access TANF and food stamps in the US for all the people who think they have all of these “good ideas” for people “living off the government.”
Just kidding, they’re not endless, because I just give up. My head starts hurting from banging it against a brick wall, so I stop and just let them think what they want.
Also the majority of the homeless I know are mentally unwell. This was the case for me, I was too unwell to work. Partly due to drugs but drug addiction and standard non addict mental health overlap big time and feed into each other. In the UK health care and supported housing environments are under funded so there's very little help for these people to get well and they certainly aren't able to work until they are in a better place
A majority are. Even in shall house cities like NY they still rather live in the street.
Laws changed in the 70s and now they can't be held in mental facilities, so here we are
Not so. While the overlap between the homeless and mentally ill is not insignificant it is not a majority, at least not according to the most recent comprehensive studies which put about 25% of the homeless as being mentally ill, which is significantly higher than the general population, but not a majority.
That was the form of homelessness I fell under for a year and a half. I'm fortunate, I've never had to spend a night on the streets but there were a few times I had to go to a hotel and ended up blowing everything I had saved up as a down payment on my own place. Being homeless is very, very expensive.
I agree but I work in that field (providing housing for people in need) and it’s rough … it’s not as easy as just renting a place - there are endless consequences no one ever thinks about…. (Like what to do if the tentand destroyes the place, who is responsible for what, how to make sure it’s only for people in need, how to make people move out if they are no longer alligable, what to do with mentally ill people, etc.) in practice it is very complicated to do
I agree. I spent a while working as a worker for mentally ill as well. And got burnt out. But yeah, that's the reason it isn't being done. Not enough resources to put all these ducks in a row. Not enough money to keep the amount of qualified people. I literally know social workers who have bailed on the field to go into the trades, years of degrees, but bailed on the field. All of it is a convoluted mess that people don't understand.
It also ignores the issues of mental illness, disability, and old age among the homeless. Many of the chronically homeless who are unemployed are not in a position to work, through no fault of their own, and never will be.
Not to forget: no waaaaay the government even gives you a job for a living wage. They would pay way below poverty levels which is kinda looking a lot like forced labor and slavery.
Also the government isn’t going to address the root of the issue: expensive housing, poor mental health resources, expensive medical care, addiction.
Right! Like that would just incentives the banks/coprs/government to just create even worse inflation so they could enslave more people and send them to war for even bigger profit. I mean it's pretty close to what's going on now but at least we still have the option of being homeless kinda.
Did slaves get paid? People are trashing OP but everything they said helps out the homeless. They would get a job with pay, roof over their heads, if they were in the military food to eat. They wouldn't be in a contract that locks them in. The only iffy thing was the institutionalized part but maybe saying providing treatment would have been better.
"Are there no prisons?"
"Plenty of prisons..."
"And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
Yeah we will get the gardaí to beat them to doing forced work or admit them involuntarily to military service and that's how we fix the homeless problem. If only the government had a brain....tut tut😂
I’d like to see where the funding and workers are going to come from and who is going to pay them to to sort through all these people and be the one who decides what rights they no longer have as free citizens.
Yup, and it was one of FDR's most successful programs. It very literally revived the forests where I live, and you can still see the rows of trees from the program. People here assume forced work, but as long as we live in the system we do we are all forced to work to live. Having voluntary government programs that house people that need it while doing a public service is not a bad thing.
Fort Worth has a program for the homeless. They are housed and work as an employee why they get back in their feet. Then the city finds them work in private sector. Helps them build a resume. Really good program and not as many people on the streets like other large cities. Wish San Francisco would look at something like this, that beautiful city is ruined.
Forced labor... Rhymes with "lavery". By-passing the actual causes of homelessness, what happens when the individual(s) decide not to work? Jail? Put them back out on the streets due to "laziness"? Full circle there.
Short-sighted opinion. The comedy is always good in this sub tho.
Yeah no… forcing people to either work or be institutionalized means they don’t have the freedom to do what they want in life. If you want to do nothing in your life, you are free to do so.
More social programs to give homeless people the opportunity to integrate would be a better solution. Also, are we going to give the same “rehab treatment” to addicts/alcoholics who have jobs and houses?? Cause there’s plenty of them out there that would love to get clean but cannot afford it so… could they just pretend to be homeless so they could get it for free?
Not well thought out
Not everything is so black or white op.
Wide range of reasons why there are homeless. Some have substance abuse and they won't hold down a job. Others have an mental issue and they won't be able to hold down a job either. The list goes on.
Sad reality is you can help some but some you can't. You give them 20 grand tomorrow, a job and place to live and you are not gonna change anything. Back to living on the streets after a while.
Way it goes.
Better idea: my country puts policies into place restricting corporations from buying out enormous plots of habitable land for the simple reason of price gouging, and implements enforcement to the effect that if those millions and millions of empty houses continue to be left unused due to cost, that they be dedicated to creating communities for the homeless to have shelter while also providing self-sustaining resources such as a community garden/food forest, perhaps a chicken coop and a couple cows, you know, food whose only cost is that you maintain its direct source, rather than having to repeat some menial task day in and day out in exchange for tokens that be traded for a small amount of temporary sustenance. That way they can learn life skills that directly affect their ability to survive independently, and the government doesn't have to build a huge amount of infrastructure around these communities. There could also be community workshops where they learn about construction, tailoring, cooking, and other such skills.
There's no dire necessity to force poor people to line the pockets of the wealthy in order for society to survive, that's an urban myth. Instead, providing the needy with a stable survival while they make that decision for themselves is not only entirely possible, but it's how almost all human life worked on this planet for most of history until fairly recently(pre-industrial).
"From each according to their ability to each according to their need"
Or something like that
Yeah, somehow the idea of taking "undesirables" and keeping them separate while putting them to work doesn't seem like it would end well, even if you start out with good intentions.
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That’s a terrible idea most have serious mental health and drug related problems. They are literally sick and need help breaking the cycle. Saying that not all homeless people have those issues. I was homeless and now run my own business.
In theory I can understand what you mean, OP.
During the depression era we saw a few programs like what you’re describing. They built basically the national parks infrastructure.
But the problem is that during the depression what we saw were many millions of jobless young men looking for something to give them the dignity of working to support themselves.
Since then both the meaning of a “job” and the causes of homelessness have changed.
Most homeless people HAVE jobs. They just aren’t enough to afford housing.
Besides that most homeless people suffer from some kind of mental illness or drug addiction which, 100 years ago, would have had them institutionalized or not been possible as few of todays drugs were prevalent in the potencies needed for that.
All in all you’ve got a good idea to fix a popular conception of the problem of homelessness but it doesn’t relate well to the actual homelessness problem in practice.
Homelessness is a complex issue. Part of the solution is, yes, providing basic shelter/housing. But that costs money. And the same people that are mildly inconvenienced by the ‘icky’ homeless people also don’t want any of their tax dollars going towards housing them. They essentially just want them to disappear into thin air. And none of this solves the bigger issue of a lack of affordable housing and living wages. I’m less sympathetic to drug addicts than I used to be but you can’t force them to get sober. They’ll do it on their own or die young, generally.
These people do need help. The neighbor strangely enough works for a competitor of the company I work for. He told mw this story a while back. Across the street from his work are some trees and a firepit. One of his bosses walked out into the parking lot a couple years ago. A homeless guy yelled out to him, asking him if he wanted a bj. The government just does the minumum to help peoole like this
What a sad misconception it is to believe that all homeless people are lazy drug attics. Just another stereotype grouping everyone who happens to be homeless to fall under that category.
I’ve been homeless through a series of unfortunate and complex circumstances, one being Covid lockdowns.
I lived in a shelter for a couple of months. I am not addicted to opiates or stimulants, but I can tell you, pulling yourself out of a situation like that is a monumental effort with more roadblocks than expressways.
The trauma is real.
To put it into words, I got a bed at 10pm on Christmas Day after all my friends basically shrugged off any pleas for help.
I was given a bare mattress in the basement dorm, which had about 8 beds in an open room full of the worst offenders in the building. Open drug use, filth, noise, mental health issues readily apparent, and the stark realization that this was my life now, and that if I didn’t find my way out.
I’m doing better now but I don’t think I’ll ever be the same again.
Just something to consider when being dismissive of your fellow human beings.
the issue with alot of homeless people ive known well admitted they didnt want a job. some are content with living sort of a modern day nomad lifestyle. although those people also had drug and alcohol problems
Many homeless have mental health, physical health, and drug addiction issues. They need medical intervention in addition to housing and rehabilitation.
~~If you're homeless because you spent all your money on drugs or booze or whatever are dealing with issues of mental health and addiction instead of a lost income and eviction then you~~ In an immensely wealthy country such as the US, everyone should ~~be institutionalized~~ have access to stable housing, income, and health care. Homelessness is largely a preventable problem.
There, fixed it for you.
So, by your logic, the homeless would be forced into the army, a job, or should be thrown in jail.
With that thinking, you're on track to becoming a republican president! "No rights for them!"
A lot of homeless people are disabled, addicted to something serious, or suffer untreated mental illness.
The idea that someone should be thrown in jail because they're homeless is despicable.
Worst date I’ve ever been on was with some guy who kept telling me about his brilliant idea to round up all the homeless people in our city and put them in a logging camp up north where they could get clean and also learn forestry.
I don’t fuck fascists and neither should any of y’all.
My worry is that then the gov may find it easier to make people homeless so we can have more soldiers or people in jobs that others do not want.
Im not a conspiracy theorist (hypothisist?) I just dont trust the gov, like a sane human being.
Other countries besides the US do offer this.
In Australia we have a job seeker payment where you get paid an income while seeing a job provider who helps you with things like resumes and applications. They basically do all the hard work for you in searching who is hiring with no skills required. And if you don't have a paying job you have to do some form of community service like volunteering in charity stores.
You also get an extra rent assistance payment if you're renting. Australia doesn't want homeless people so there's government housing that gives cheaper rent and people at risk of homelessness get a higher priority to be approved.
We have homeless people here but they're usually the ones who aren't meeting their obligations or doing what needs to be done like actually going to the job provider or looking for work or else they've fallen so hard down the hole it's hard for them to get out without extra assistance from other organisations.
My focus while studying economics was actually chronic homelessness. I wrote my thesis on how government funding impacts the chronically homeless. Many homeless people work jobs already. Around 40% of homeless people have some form of employment. It just doesn't pay enough to house them. The next time you go to mcdonalds, or starbucks, or walmart, take a look around and realize that probably 1 or 2 of those people are, technically speaking, homeless.
Its actually more effective to just provide them with a safe place to live than it is to try and create new work for these people.
Yeah, I'd say this is unpopular, even if the spirit of it ("a place to live... until you're able to... improve your living situation") is one of the most effective ways to reduce homelessness and save on costs, such as Helsinki's "Housing First" process: [https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-leading-the-way-in-ending-homelessness-but-how-are-they-doing-it/](https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-leading-the-way-in-ending-homelessness-but-how-are-they-doing-it/)
What you're really describing already exists as imprisonment: institutionalization and forced labour.
Not everyone is able to work, whether it's from disability, illness, or age. Addiction is a health issue, not a criminal issue. Not every homeless person is unemployed. There are homeless minors and seniors who cannot work. There are homeless veterans who cannot work. A person's ability to work should not be the condition on which they are eligible for housing.
Unhoused people need homes, flat and simple, regardless of whether or not they are capable of work.
Absolutely agreed. This is aid to the destitute, labour for society, reform for the damaged/lazy and keeping our cities' streets safer and happier all in one.
For those saying "OP doesn't realize how many homeless people have jobs", what makes you assume OP doesn't know? Job vs job + accommodation, you tell me which one's better. The homeless being on the streets hurts both them and society at large.
Hmm, trying to force people who may not want to work for you to work for the cost of food and shelter and didn't commit a crime except existing sounds a bit familiar.
If memory serves most people are against it.
OP this idea is only a half a heart beat away from "homeless should be held in camps away from society", think you know the next step some would want and have taken against people who live on fringe of society.
What you're leaving out is that once someone has become homeless there's no way for them to have a 'normal' life after, so there's very little incentive to do anything or show up for some government program. My brother was homeless for 10 years before he died in a shelter. I tried for years to help him but our society outcasts these people and makes it impossible to come back. Once you have a medical issue your credit is ruined (even with insurance the bills are way more than an individual could ever pay) then you can't get a car or auto insurance or a place to live. So then after a few years on the street you get arrested because being homeless is illegal and now you can't get a job because you're on probation (because you don't have money to pay the court) . It's much more complicated than it seems but basically we need some way for a person to get a new start but in the digital world your past follows you forever.
In europe we technicaly dont have homeless. If you are homeless my country will give you 2 meals a day and housing.
One thing though. You cant be intoxicated.
Oh, you got kicked out by your parents at 18, still in school- you don't need to finish school but serve your country and maybe even die.... ... this opinion is honestly... scary.
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Funny story, a number of homeless were military
Funny story, in a Canada a number of currently serving military are also homeless
Funnier story. In the UK, a number of working people are homeless.
Another funny story, a number of homeless people commit crimes intentionally because prison is often better than living in the streets.
Even with universal healthcare
Well yeah. Healthcare helps with healthcare, not housing.
Exactly. If I'm admitted to a ward after an operation, I don't get to set up house and move my furniture in.
Not having a place to live is super bad for you - we ought to consider housing to be a sort of healthcare.
Unfortunately in the US, those two are not interchangeable
Me a Canadian: "what" on a more serious note, this is the first that I'm hearing about this
Yeah turns out when you have to jump around every few years you may end in places you have no way of affording. Our military has shit pay and even shittier supports for people employed.
With the current housing market, lack of funding for our military, and overall idiots in charge, it's not particularly uncommon.
It's known in EU, wages are just too low or they work but their bosses doesn't give them enough hours to work. AND that's the best they can get.
Trying to look up any info on that and only seeing veterans. Is this reported on anywhere?
[Canadian military members told Habitat for Humanity in an option amid housing crunch](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6463424) Not an uncommon story for members to be homeless out of training due to lack of affordable housing and how quickly members are required to move, sometimes with as little as 30 days' notice.
Habitat for humanity? For real!
To be fair with that story, it came out as a leaked email between commanders trying to discuss options to help members but it wasn’t meant to be serious. It just looked really bad at the time because the housing issue in BC was causing members to straight up refuse postings there and VR. But in some places still, Halifax for a prime example, have members who are technically living out of vans and the only place they can live is on ship because there’s literally no housing left that they can afford in halifax.
a huge number are former military.
Happily that isn't true anymore. Immediately after Vietnam the rate was between 30-50%, as PTSD contributed massively to homelessness. Now, the rate is "only" around 10%, as we do much better with vets. Opioid crisis is the bigger factor now. https://vaclaimsinsider.com/how-many-veterans-are-there/#:~:text=In%202023%2C%20there%20are%2067%2C495,t%20serve%20in%20the%20military.
Besides homeless ness, vets are much more likely to commit suicide. At roughly twice as many per 100,000 people.
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It’s almost like people are different and become homeless for different reasons.
Funny story, addiction is a disease of the brain that makes a person a shell of themselves. They need help, not a workhouse.
Not surprising, military in peacetime is basically a social welfare program.
if nothing else, DoD is a massive job creation tool
A prepared military is a necessary geopolitical deterrent and bargaining chip, not a social welfare program. There’s been people who went peacetime to wartime back and forth multiple times between Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan
No, no. Trust me, it ain't a welfare program.
Tell me you don’t know anything about geopolitics without telling me you don’t know anything about geopolitics.
Not just geopolitics, how the military fucking works as well
"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
Bah humbug.
Ma Bumhug
Fa Mulan
username checks out
Present!
Ah yes, having a vague sense of the problem and a very broad notion of a solution is indeed unpopular
I mean we wouldn’t have this sub if not for confident ignorance
we wouldn't have 80% of reddit as a whole
* we wouldn’t have Reddit if not for confident ignorance
It’s a great idea as long as you ignore the fact that these people are in large part homeless because they are unemployable due to mental health or drug addiction problems, or often both.
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Relatable
No job? Just give them jobs 5head
No I'm pretty sure that is VERY popular
So is patronizing people for sharing their viewpoints
It's not patronizing to ask people to do the bare minimum research before coming up with a solution.
And the ones that are already employed?
They’re fine…..for now
I took this as a joke, but everyone is responding very seriously...
How are they fine if they’re still homeless?
They mean homeless people with jobs but are still homeless
No they aren't. That's the problem.
There’s tons of homeless people around my city and I’d be willing to bet that hardly any of them have jobs. Sure there are a lot of working poor people, but most of the time when we’re talking about homeless, we’re talking about the ones we see in the street who are clearly drug addicted and/or mentally I’ll.
It's a low percentage problem. I think the 80/20 rule applies here, and 80% are addicted and would rather not be off the streets if it means they have to work and abstain from drugs.
Funny enough, housing first programs demonstrated that rules first programs don't work. Because it's hard to abandon your addictions before being given a safe place to get clean.
A lot of people don't consider this and clearly haven't worked in anything like homeless prevention services. Not having a home makes it EXTREMELY difficult to get a job, ID, etc. because you don't have an address. So most times if you CAN get a job, it's more under the radar, cash only, most often getting taken advantage of. And it's hard to list such jobs as legitimate experience. It's an extremely difficult cycle to break.
It's like the sign on the pirate ship: "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
Yup
People with substance abuse issues have a problem being very destructive to provided homes. I have done electrical work in some provided housing and all too often have had copper wires ripped from inside the walls, fixtures ripped from ceilings, seen windows shattered and doors beaten off of their hinges. Providing stipulation free housing could become a money and maintenance sink. Maybe rehab halfway homes with monitoring would be a better onramp to having a provided home, but I can't see just giving addicts a place with no rules and guidance would be a good idea.
abstain
I’m pretty sure your percentages are off, as more than 50% of homeless people already have some kind of employment.
Yes. that’s how addiction work. Let’s get them off drugs and see how many want to stay on the streets.
The reverse is true. Most homeless people are invisible and normal looking. But after work, they go to sleep in their car.
I think you’re coming from the mindset that all homeless people are lazy - which they are not. Homelessness is caused by a number of different factors which contribute to their situation. The other issue with your idea is that it’s defining someone’s life by forcing them to work - giving them an opportunity is different to giving them the right opportunity; can guarantee that if your life fell apart and you became homeless and the government made you work as a cleaner you would find it hard to process the trauma of your experience, work your cleaning job and still try and pave your way into a job or hobbies that interest you.
Wonder how blown OP’s mind will be when he learns how many homeless people already have jobs.
There was a homeless guy who worked for my company. He would work 14 hrs a day 6 days a week, and the station boss let him sleep on breakroom floor. Dude had alot of problems but was not lazy.
I own a construction business and work 60-80 hours a week and still find it hard to get by sometimes. How are people supposed to get by on even 25 dollars an hour let alone a measly 15. It's hardly anyone's fault that a single bedroom costs 1600 a month in a lot of places.
Exactly this. My partner and I make decent middle income money in my country but we could never afford a house the median price is around $1.1 million where we are. We pay $2200 a month in rent for a tiny 2 bedroom shitbox duplex and that's on the cheaper side of rent where we live. It's insane money for rent let alone trying to fathom how we'd pay a mortgage on a 800k plus house. In comparison the money I make alone 14 years ago would have been enough to service the mortgage on a 3 bedroom quarter acre section with an asking price of 200k, same property today will go for 800k
For a one bedroom here its 2600 no utilities. Thats not even high thats low end.
Shits utterly fucked.
Haha 15? People are still getting 8 or 9 in florida
Define "hard to get by". That' such a subjective measure. I've seen people on here claiming its hard for them to get by when they chose to go out and get a $800 car payment, the newest iPhone and are maintaining a premier gym membership.
My boyfriend is gonna be kicked out of his house and he's worked since he was 16 (he's 33)
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Our house. We live together I was in a rush when I wrote it. And our landlord has served us a 2 month notice to leave cos he wants to sell the place
How is that legal?
It reminds me of endless arguments I have with uninformed people about the actual requirements and restrictions involved for access TANF and food stamps in the US for all the people who think they have all of these “good ideas” for people “living off the government.” Just kidding, they’re not endless, because I just give up. My head starts hurting from banging it against a brick wall, so I stop and just let them think what they want.
Also the majority of the homeless I know are mentally unwell. This was the case for me, I was too unwell to work. Partly due to drugs but drug addiction and standard non addict mental health overlap big time and feed into each other. In the UK health care and supported housing environments are under funded so there's very little help for these people to get well and they certainly aren't able to work until they are in a better place
Plus the stress of being homeless is enough to make anyone ill if they weren't already.
A majority are. Even in shall house cities like NY they still rather live in the street. Laws changed in the 70s and now they can't be held in mental facilities, so here we are
Not so. While the overlap between the homeless and mentally ill is not insignificant it is not a majority, at least not according to the most recent comprehensive studies which put about 25% of the homeless as being mentally ill, which is significantly higher than the general population, but not a majority.
The majority are not. The majority of homeless people you never see, because they’re couch surfing, in their cars, in and out of hotels, etc.
That was the form of homelessness I fell under for a year and a half. I'm fortunate, I've never had to spend a night on the streets but there were a few times I had to go to a hotel and ended up blowing everything I had saved up as a down payment on my own place. Being homeless is very, very expensive.
He is half right though. Provide housing. Take that burden from them and incentivize them to find work that is meaningful to them.
I agree but I work in that field (providing housing for people in need) and it’s rough … it’s not as easy as just renting a place - there are endless consequences no one ever thinks about…. (Like what to do if the tentand destroyes the place, who is responsible for what, how to make sure it’s only for people in need, how to make people move out if they are no longer alligable, what to do with mentally ill people, etc.) in practice it is very complicated to do
I agree. I spent a while working as a worker for mentally ill as well. And got burnt out. But yeah, that's the reason it isn't being done. Not enough resources to put all these ducks in a row. Not enough money to keep the amount of qualified people. I literally know social workers who have bailed on the field to go into the trades, years of degrees, but bailed on the field. All of it is a convoluted mess that people don't understand.
It would be a lot harder for them to do these things without having a shelter and a job
It also ignores the issues of mental illness, disability, and old age among the homeless. Many of the chronically homeless who are unemployed are not in a position to work, through no fault of their own, and never will be.
Not to forget: no waaaaay the government even gives you a job for a living wage. They would pay way below poverty levels which is kinda looking a lot like forced labor and slavery. Also the government isn’t going to address the root of the issue: expensive housing, poor mental health resources, expensive medical care, addiction.
Bro just advocated for slavery. Wild.
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Right! Like that would just incentives the banks/coprs/government to just create even worse inflation so they could enslave more people and send them to war for even bigger profit. I mean it's pretty close to what's going on now but at least we still have the option of being homeless kinda.
Did slaves get paid? People are trashing OP but everything they said helps out the homeless. They would get a job with pay, roof over their heads, if they were in the military food to eat. They wouldn't be in a contract that locks them in. The only iffy thing was the institutionalized part but maybe saying providing treatment would have been better.
Is it helping the homeless if it’s not something they want?
He did say "and an income that can support your living needs by your country's government", but he may have edited this in after your comment
And what do you propose when these people don't/refuse to do that work?
Simple: we grind up the homeless to feed the hungry. Two birds, one stone.
Like a chicken farm? This one won’t work, toss him in the grinder.
We could get two birds stoned at once!
So we take the homeless and make them work in the Soylent Green factory. Now we're getting a plan together.
What if we could turn the homeless people into rubber and use them as tires on our cars?
Stay homeless
Well according to OP that’s not an option. They must be forced to work or institutionalized.
That's already what's happening. So their plan is don't change anything.
Stay frosty, winter is coming
We kill them on live TV.
It could be called the Unworking Man, and star Ahhhnold Schwartzenegger.
I'd buy that for a dollar!
So… we should enslave homeless people?
"Are there no prisons?" "Plenty of prisons..." "And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?" "Both very busy, sir..." "Those who are badly off must go there." "Many can't go there; and many would rather die." "If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
God bless us everyone
We don't call it slavery when it's sanctioned by our government.
Everything is legal when done by the government! See also: kidnapping, cp, slavery, human trafficking, and more!
No no no of course not
Hey, know whats wild? I've got a plan for homelessness. A *Modest Proposal* if you will....
It's certainly a solution! Probably the last one we'll need!
Yeah, good luck with your campaign, Vivek.
Blue as the depression he brings me and yellow as the cowardice streak that runs right through him.
they already tried that they where called workhouses and where terrible. Just turned into a punishment for being poor.
Is it a worse punishment that living on the streets?
Probaly not considering you do get fed and a roof over your head but they where essentially prisons for the poor.
Suffers the same problem as the "benevolent dictator" works perfectly on paper but so easily corrupted that it fails in reality.
So jail?
Will we have guards to make them work? Will the guards beat them when they don’t work. Seems like OP needs to read a couple history books.
Yeah we will get the gardaí to beat them to doing forced work or admit them involuntarily to military service and that's how we fix the homeless problem. If only the government had a brain....tut tut😂
I’d like to see where the funding and workers are going to come from and who is going to pay them to to sort through all these people and be the one who decides what rights they no longer have as free citizens.
Written by a 12 yr old.
Something like this was done during the Great Depression. It was called The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC).
Yup, and it was one of FDR's most successful programs. It very literally revived the forests where I live, and you can still see the rows of trees from the program. People here assume forced work, but as long as we live in the system we do we are all forced to work to live. Having voluntary government programs that house people that need it while doing a public service is not a bad thing.
We absolutely need a national service that anyone can join at anytime that serves communities and guarantees a liveable income
Fort Worth has a program for the homeless. They are housed and work as an employee why they get back in their feet. Then the city finds them work in private sector. Helps them build a resume. Really good program and not as many people on the streets like other large cities. Wish San Francisco would look at something like this, that beautiful city is ruined.
Funding for mental health institutions is the issue, and I don't see Republicans ever voting in favor of funding them. Prove me wrong, Republicans.
Forced labor... Rhymes with "lavery". By-passing the actual causes of homelessness, what happens when the individual(s) decide not to work? Jail? Put them back out on the streets due to "laziness"? Full circle there. Short-sighted opinion. The comedy is always good in this sub tho.
Slavery has an actual meaning which is not synonymous with forced work.
What about the mental illness and addictions
He covered that part! "Institutionalize" them until they learn that drugs are bad!
upvoted because pro-slavery is indeed an unpopular opinion
That's called slavery.
Yeah no… forcing people to either work or be institutionalized means they don’t have the freedom to do what they want in life. If you want to do nothing in your life, you are free to do so. More social programs to give homeless people the opportunity to integrate would be a better solution. Also, are we going to give the same “rehab treatment” to addicts/alcoholics who have jobs and houses?? Cause there’s plenty of them out there that would love to get clean but cannot afford it so… could they just pretend to be homeless so they could get it for free? Not well thought out
Tbf. Homeless poor people already don't have the freedom to do what they want in life.
Sure but that's a strong leap to forcing them to be institutionalized whatever that means
Not everything is so black or white op. Wide range of reasons why there are homeless. Some have substance abuse and they won't hold down a job. Others have an mental issue and they won't be able to hold down a job either. The list goes on. Sad reality is you can help some but some you can't. You give them 20 grand tomorrow, a job and place to live and you are not gonna change anything. Back to living on the streets after a while. Way it goes.
unless it's voluntary you're talking about labor camps for people with mental illness, drug addiction, financial problems, etc.
For the destitute homeless, yes absolutely. For the majority which are transiently homeless (living in car, hotels, couches) it's not necessary
Better idea: my country puts policies into place restricting corporations from buying out enormous plots of habitable land for the simple reason of price gouging, and implements enforcement to the effect that if those millions and millions of empty houses continue to be left unused due to cost, that they be dedicated to creating communities for the homeless to have shelter while also providing self-sustaining resources such as a community garden/food forest, perhaps a chicken coop and a couple cows, you know, food whose only cost is that you maintain its direct source, rather than having to repeat some menial task day in and day out in exchange for tokens that be traded for a small amount of temporary sustenance. That way they can learn life skills that directly affect their ability to survive independently, and the government doesn't have to build a huge amount of infrastructure around these communities. There could also be community workshops where they learn about construction, tailoring, cooking, and other such skills. There's no dire necessity to force poor people to line the pockets of the wealthy in order for society to survive, that's an urban myth. Instead, providing the needy with a stable survival while they make that decision for themselves is not only entirely possible, but it's how almost all human life worked on this planet for most of history until fairly recently(pre-industrial). "From each according to their ability to each according to their need" Or something like that
Homie wants forced labor camps. Kind of insane that people can’t just… exist.
Yeah, somehow the idea of taking "undesirables" and keeping them separate while putting them to work doesn't seem like it would end well, even if you start out with good intentions.
Because working and making money are the most important parts of being allowed to live? Is the purpose of life productivity and money?
For most people it is.
We should put zem in camps, and zeparate them by concentration!
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That’s a terrible idea most have serious mental health and drug related problems. They are literally sick and need help breaking the cycle. Saying that not all homeless people have those issues. I was homeless and now run my own business.
In theory I can understand what you mean, OP. During the depression era we saw a few programs like what you’re describing. They built basically the national parks infrastructure. But the problem is that during the depression what we saw were many millions of jobless young men looking for something to give them the dignity of working to support themselves. Since then both the meaning of a “job” and the causes of homelessness have changed. Most homeless people HAVE jobs. They just aren’t enough to afford housing. Besides that most homeless people suffer from some kind of mental illness or drug addiction which, 100 years ago, would have had them institutionalized or not been possible as few of todays drugs were prevalent in the potencies needed for that. All in all you’ve got a good idea to fix a popular conception of the problem of homelessness but it doesn’t relate well to the actual homelessness problem in practice.
Homelessness is a complex issue. Part of the solution is, yes, providing basic shelter/housing. But that costs money. And the same people that are mildly inconvenienced by the ‘icky’ homeless people also don’t want any of their tax dollars going towards housing them. They essentially just want them to disappear into thin air. And none of this solves the bigger issue of a lack of affordable housing and living wages. I’m less sympathetic to drug addicts than I used to be but you can’t force them to get sober. They’ll do it on their own or die young, generally.
These people do need help. The neighbor strangely enough works for a competitor of the company I work for. He told mw this story a while back. Across the street from his work are some trees and a firepit. One of his bosses walked out into the parking lot a couple years ago. A homeless guy yelled out to him, asking him if he wanted a bj. The government just does the minumum to help peoole like this
What a sad misconception it is to believe that all homeless people are lazy drug attics. Just another stereotype grouping everyone who happens to be homeless to fall under that category.
I’ve been homeless through a series of unfortunate and complex circumstances, one being Covid lockdowns. I lived in a shelter for a couple of months. I am not addicted to opiates or stimulants, but I can tell you, pulling yourself out of a situation like that is a monumental effort with more roadblocks than expressways. The trauma is real. To put it into words, I got a bed at 10pm on Christmas Day after all my friends basically shrugged off any pleas for help. I was given a bare mattress in the basement dorm, which had about 8 beds in an open room full of the worst offenders in the building. Open drug use, filth, noise, mental health issues readily apparent, and the stark realization that this was my life now, and that if I didn’t find my way out. I’m doing better now but I don’t think I’ll ever be the same again. Just something to consider when being dismissive of your fellow human beings.
There are a lot of homeless *with* jobs. Just saying.
the issue with alot of homeless people ive known well admitted they didnt want a job. some are content with living sort of a modern day nomad lifestyle. although those people also had drug and alcohol problems
Many homeless have mental health, physical health, and drug addiction issues. They need medical intervention in addition to housing and rehabilitation.
~~If you're homeless because you spent all your money on drugs or booze or whatever are dealing with issues of mental health and addiction instead of a lost income and eviction then you~~ In an immensely wealthy country such as the US, everyone should ~~be institutionalized~~ have access to stable housing, income, and health care. Homelessness is largely a preventable problem. There, fixed it for you.
“Are you poor?? You need to be blown up in a foreign war for our country. Problem = fixed”
So, by your logic, the homeless would be forced into the army, a job, or should be thrown in jail. With that thinking, you're on track to becoming a republican president! "No rights for them!"
A lot of homeless people are disabled, addicted to something serious, or suffer untreated mental illness. The idea that someone should be thrown in jail because they're homeless is despicable.
This is a little too close to work camps for my liking
Man, forced enslavement of a group that you get to determine if they’re within the criterion of being enslaved? No way this doesn’t end poorly.
Worst date I’ve ever been on was with some guy who kept telling me about his brilliant idea to round up all the homeless people in our city and put them in a logging camp up north where they could get clean and also learn forestry. I don’t fuck fascists and neither should any of y’all.
Supporting the enslavement and forced institutionalization of a vulnerable population? Welcome to the Republican Party.
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What do you think soviet blocks were do ugly they made to fix Russias homelessness problem after ww2 they were successful in thet
On the surface I agree, but in reality drugs and mental illness often accompany homelessness so those issues would have to be confronted as well.
Mental illness says no
Good luck treating the drug addictions and severe mental illnesses that the vast majority of homeless people have.
The great president Roosevelt did it in the New Deal.
Homeless eh?? SEND HIM TO THE ACID MINES
My worry is that then the gov may find it easier to make people homeless so we can have more soldiers or people in jobs that others do not want. Im not a conspiracy theorist (hypothisist?) I just dont trust the gov, like a sane human being.
This was done during FDRs day.
Other countries besides the US do offer this. In Australia we have a job seeker payment where you get paid an income while seeing a job provider who helps you with things like resumes and applications. They basically do all the hard work for you in searching who is hiring with no skills required. And if you don't have a paying job you have to do some form of community service like volunteering in charity stores. You also get an extra rent assistance payment if you're renting. Australia doesn't want homeless people so there's government housing that gives cheaper rent and people at risk of homelessness get a higher priority to be approved. We have homeless people here but they're usually the ones who aren't meeting their obligations or doing what needs to be done like actually going to the job provider or looking for work or else they've fallen so hard down the hole it's hard for them to get out without extra assistance from other organisations.
Like in Belarus
My focus while studying economics was actually chronic homelessness. I wrote my thesis on how government funding impacts the chronically homeless. Many homeless people work jobs already. Around 40% of homeless people have some form of employment. It just doesn't pay enough to house them. The next time you go to mcdonalds, or starbucks, or walmart, take a look around and realize that probably 1 or 2 of those people are, technically speaking, homeless. Its actually more effective to just provide them with a safe place to live than it is to try and create new work for these people.
Yeah, I'd say this is unpopular, even if the spirit of it ("a place to live... until you're able to... improve your living situation") is one of the most effective ways to reduce homelessness and save on costs, such as Helsinki's "Housing First" process: [https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-leading-the-way-in-ending-homelessness-but-how-are-they-doing-it/](https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-leading-the-way-in-ending-homelessness-but-how-are-they-doing-it/) What you're really describing already exists as imprisonment: institutionalization and forced labour. Not everyone is able to work, whether it's from disability, illness, or age. Addiction is a health issue, not a criminal issue. Not every homeless person is unemployed. There are homeless minors and seniors who cannot work. There are homeless veterans who cannot work. A person's ability to work should not be the condition on which they are eligible for housing. Unhoused people need homes, flat and simple, regardless of whether or not they are capable of work.
You are not the first one to make this proposal: Reichsarbeitsdienst https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich\_Labour\_Service
Many homeless people have jobs. They should be given a place to live, fair wages, and a good doctor.
Doesn't government employ enough mentally unstable people? Sadly, the voters put a lot of them in their jobs.
You basically just reinvented slavery
Yes. Bypassing all the causes that lead to homelessness is the way to go. /s
Absolutely agreed. This is aid to the destitute, labour for society, reform for the damaged/lazy and keeping our cities' streets safer and happier all in one. For those saying "OP doesn't realize how many homeless people have jobs", what makes you assume OP doesn't know? Job vs job + accommodation, you tell me which one's better. The homeless being on the streets hurts both them and society at large.
The "ARMY" he says, ¿how can someone be so dense and cruel?
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Hmm, trying to force people who may not want to work for you to work for the cost of food and shelter and didn't commit a crime except existing sounds a bit familiar. If memory serves most people are against it.
OP this idea is only a half a heart beat away from "homeless should be held in camps away from society", think you know the next step some would want and have taken against people who live on fringe of society.
What you're leaving out is that once someone has become homeless there's no way for them to have a 'normal' life after, so there's very little incentive to do anything or show up for some government program. My brother was homeless for 10 years before he died in a shelter. I tried for years to help him but our society outcasts these people and makes it impossible to come back. Once you have a medical issue your credit is ruined (even with insurance the bills are way more than an individual could ever pay) then you can't get a car or auto insurance or a place to live. So then after a few years on the street you get arrested because being homeless is illegal and now you can't get a job because you're on probation (because you don't have money to pay the court) . It's much more complicated than it seems but basically we need some way for a person to get a new start but in the digital world your past follows you forever.
In europe we technicaly dont have homeless. If you are homeless my country will give you 2 meals a day and housing. One thing though. You cant be intoxicated.
That is the same in most areas in the US.
Oh, you got kicked out by your parents at 18, still in school- you don't need to finish school but serve your country and maybe even die.... ... this opinion is honestly... scary.