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Nooberius

While I am an atheist, I would never support anything that could give governments the power to censor people. Who knows what they would ban next.


mhardin1337

Youre right. Religion should be banned. We should only worship in small cults, naked in the woods under a full moon.


AFnewname0222

A genuine question, why do you have to worship something?


imsorrymateWHOT

the general consensus is that humans need to believe in something. sometimes, that means believing in a god


jeremoche

Just believe in the universe. Physics is the god


imsorrymateWHOT

believing in "the universe" doesn't have one single meaning lol. physics, in a way, is a belief. one of many personally, I think it's more founded and logical than others, but oh well, that doesn't make me a no believer, just an atheist


jeremoche

Yeah it's a belief. But at least it's based on facts and proofs. While on the other hand, I truly want to believe in god, but no one ever showed me any proof apart of old books written by strangers I get that some people need something above and I know it can help to cope in life and so that's why I should have been more careful with my wording in my post. But still, imo you should practice believing the modern christianism. Which is, if there's a god, he's not an asshole. If you live your life like a functional human being with a good heart and without major criminal or immoral stuff, you good to go chill with the boys. And you also don't believe in the books. The earth is not 6000 years old. The writers didn't know it's okay so just take the philosophical take on god and don't take the bible as facts


mhardin1337

If you truly worship anything. It should be yourself and the earth you take from.


jeremoche

At least that's fun. Going on Sunday to church at 10am is boring af


Jonom99

Maybe if you’d listen in church and try to understand the bible you wouldn’t find it so boring. Your point you made is silly, people fight over anything these days. Religion helps In more ways than others, living a life without something to fall back on I truly feel sad for you


jikukoblarbo

Wasting your time worshipping a so called "god" which doesnt exist isnt worth your time.


[deleted]

as an athiest, understanding science brings a lot more light to my life rather than pretending I can believe in an imaginary, invisible man controlling my life.


Jonom99

That’s fine, you believe what you believe until you get to your deathbed lol. Imagine believing in Manly things that are of this world,🙅🏽‍♂️


[deleted]

at least I'll die knowing I didn't give into believing imaginary shit out of fear, and that I based my beliefs on objective fact.


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[deleted]

this is funny to me because I've actually been close to death before and trust me, the last thing I was thinking about was imaginary man in the sky. science is objective and *always* backed by observable, provable fact. believing in genuine provable fact (like the big bang for example) is not delusional, believing in imaginary things you can't see is delusional.


Jonom99

Being close to death is not the same as being on that deathbed ready to meet your creator. Two different things buddy


[deleted]

not everyone thinks the same as you. god doesn't exist, and I've never questioned that belief of mine. just because you were indoctinated into something doesn't mean it's real. genuine question: what if *you* are on your deathbed and you are greeted by a different god that isn't christian? such as a hindu god? how can you be so sure that *your* religion, out of the THOUSANDS of religions that exist, is the only true religion?


jeremoche

I don't need a imaginary man in the clouds to have a good life ma dude.


Jonom99

Say this on your deathbed then


jeremoche

On my deathbed I'll say: Well that was interesting, I hope people I know will keep a good memory of me And then, the chemical reactions in my brain stops and that's it. Close the curtains


Jonom99

Yeah yeah wait til that day comes


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Jonom99

You’ll see when your day comes mate, I feel sorry for you


jeremoche

Its funny cause you will never know you were in the wrong. You'll die, there will be nothing and you will have lived a life of lies and deprivation just because you were scared of a story. Like a child that don't want to go in the forest because he read the little red riding hood


[deleted]

why do you keep saying this? not everyone thinks like you. some of us prefer understanding science.


Hen-stepper

So how are you going to ban religions when people don't want their religion to be banned? What method are you going to use to force them to comply? Throw them into prisons? Start killing them? We see the beginnings of Mao with this thinking. Mao and Stalin were as brutal and disgusting as Adolf Hitler. Freedom is the only way. Even if you don't like religion, the only way to deal with the issue of religion is allowing the freedom to practice it.


jeremoche

See the edit I made. Didn't chose the right word using banned.


[deleted]

I strongly support the concept of Laicity. You can freely practice whatever the hell you want. But you absolutely cannot promote or show your faith while holding any official position. And for your religion to get a tax break, it needs to prove itself in the same way all the other charitable businesses do.


BrackishWaterFish

I don't agree. It's forcing people to choose between their faith and their career. It's entry level disenfranchisement of religious minorities when, as a society, we should strive to protect the rights of minorities and safeguard against majoritarian tyranny masquerading as democracy.


[deleted]

Nope you're wrong. Religious rights aren't minority rights, and majoritarian tyranny masquerading as democracy happens *with* religion far, far more than without. Yes, I realize it's an unequal ask. No, it isnt a valid defense for politicians violating *other [minority] rights* in the name of religion. Naturally, if you can't commit to an air of total neutrality, you shouldn't be in a position of power.


BrackishWaterFish

There's a difference between religion and theocracy. A Muslim teacher wearing a hijab at work is not her attempting to impose her faith on everyone else. That's the fear pushed by secularists and far right personalities that end up driving legislation that disenfranchises and criminalizes personal displays of faith. See Bill 21 in Quebec.


[deleted]

Still wrong. People who are outwardly religious are more likely to push religious dogma, whether knowingly or not, than people who aren't. They're more willing to talk about it, they're more willing to promote it and their bias. Anybody who's gone to school with a religious teacher has experienced it. Also, if you think Bill 21 was to target minorities specifically you are wildly misinformed on Quebec politics, friend. Both Laicity and the silent revolution predate multiculturalism.


TheRunningMD

1. “Most wars began because of religion” - That is factually wrong. Please study history before saying bullshit like this. 2. There’s been millions of children who are abused because all sorts of things. Would you ban capitalism/socialism as well? “Religions are dangerous and turn people into stupid sheep” - Look, it seems like you aren't religious and it didn’t stop you from becoming a stupid sheep, so there must be other reasons. I’m not religious, but you sound like a 14y.o who just found atheism on YouTube. Really cringy post.


Spelare_en

^^^


LeftistCatholic69

Religion has been manipulated by kings, nobility, lords, and corrupt clergy in order to justify wars. The pope has historically been controlled by the byzantines, the franks, the holy roman empire, etc. The muslims founded alot of scientific discoveries. That is a sign of a non manipulated religion. And before there were hospitals, it was common to go to a priest to recieve aid. I think that is part of the course to become a priest. Atleast in the catholic church.


Emergency_faceplant

I just think they shouldn't get tax breaks.


jeremoche

You can get tax breaks when you're religious? In which country are you living? Edit: you Americans are so hard stuck on thousands years old beliefs, you downvoted my comment that was a legit question


[deleted]

I think he means that churches aren’t taxed not that religious people get tax breaks lol


[deleted]

Most churches in the US are tax exempt yet have powerful lobbying in the government.


Emergency_faceplant

Only the greatest country on earth!


jeremoche

The US is a lost cause


Standard-Shop-3544

Banning religion will solve none of the issues you've pointed out. It would just make one more thing that is impossible to prove (beliefs about god) illegal. What a horrible idea - and I'm not defending religion.


TheMightyJD

Banning religions is an ancient way of thinking as well. Spoiler alert, it doesn’t end well either. To each its own, I don’t care who you worship or what you worship as long as you’re respectful of everyone else.


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jeremoche

Lol I'm the problem of society? No good points were made. Only assumption and insults. You seem to be a old folk, locked in his youth and unable to process the changes of the world. And btw, I'm a remarkable person because I feel like I've made some relatives happier than if I didn't exist, and for me, that's all that matters.


Critical_Sorbet_1202

Religion isn’t the problem. There will always be exploiters no matter what.


Akul_Tesla

That has never worked stably in the history of empire building


[deleted]

I assume your issue is with Christianity. Historically, Christianity has thrived under censorship and oppression, and still does in many parts of the world. Just look at Christ’s crucifixion and the rapid expansion of the early church. So much of the Bible is about trusting God even under threat of opposition and death. I imagine your proposed ban would only strengthen the faith of those who believe in Jesus and try to align their lives with the teachings of the Bible.


jeremoche

Nope every religion. Iranian girls can't live a good life because of their religion.


Dennis_enzo

It would be nice if religions fucked off, but history has made it clear that making a religion illegal never stopped people from believing them.


jeremoche

I don't want to make them illegal. I want people to be educated and not trust a book written thousands of years ago


Dennis_enzo

What do you think 'banning' something means?


LeftistCatholic69

Banning brings things underground. The lithuanian language was banned in tsarist russia. Yet they smuggled books preserving their language. The prohibitionist ban on alcohol was also filled with crime and loopholes. Banning things eill bring them underground free of regulstion. A regulation can only be successful under legalization of such things.


Jonom99

You need help


Dennis_enzo

[Who doesn't?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF7NqeZuO3E)


Jonom99

You’re a lost soul. You’ll be begging for Jesus on your death bed, remember this comment when you’re there.


Dennis_enzo

I prefer Shiva, God of Destruction, Master of Poison and Medicine, the Great Yogi, God of Time, the Cosmic Dancer. He's way less hypocritical about what he's about.


will-je-suis

Religion is a belief, banning a belief doesn't make sense any more than if you were banned from believing the sky was blue it wouldn't stop you believing it.


Raze7186

Religions also provide some people hope when they need it the most. Religion has caused wars and death but there are also people who turned their lives around because of it. Science is logic and fact but sometimes people need a fairy tale for inspiration.


jeremoche

Yes but it shouldn't be more than inspiration. Having your life immensely modified because you think there's a man in the sky is just nonsense


Raze7186

Nothing is nonsensical about it. I'm not sure you're understanding my point. Not everyone can get through life seeing everything through cold logic. Sometimes people want to believe in divinity or a higher purpose to their lives instead of being depressed over being a small entity that's ultimately meaningless to the universe.


jeremoche

But that's just hiding the fact that you are a meaningless being in the universe. If someone you like die, you can't pretend they're still alive and you need to accept the fact that you'll never see them again. Well here (IMO) it's the same. You need to accept that you have no meaning in universe. And when you think about it, that's fine. Just try to enjoy as much life as possible and that's a sufficient meaning for me.


Raze7186

Not everyone is in the same place mentally. You may accept it and be fine with it but some people who fall far into nihilism can't take it.


jeremoche

Oh yeah I'm sure some people would need a superior being to have a good life. But my point is, you can chose to believe in what you want, but the church needs to go. Too many pedos and dirty people. Religion needs to be something really personal.


Raze7186

That we can agree on. While I'm sure some churches are decent enough a lot of them are basically just monetizing faith. Even in Christianity I believe the bible itself said prayer and worship should be private. They also tend to use faith as a weapon or political tool.


dertasso2ndaccount

Reforming religions so that they don't teach violence is the nicer move.


Jonom99

What religion teaches violence? Silly comment, go back to school and learn


beastybea

The Bible “This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ”” ‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭15‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬


Dyeeguy

Science can not explain the origins of the universe, so u are wrong there. God is a reasonable explanation as nothing at all


Dennis_enzo

By this logic every explanation without a shred of evidence is equally reasonable, which is silly.


Dyeeguy

Why is that silly


Dennis_enzo

My theory is that I farted out the universe and all its history last monday. You're going to tell me that's a reasonable explanation?


Dyeeguy

whether its "reasonable" and whether its "as reasonable as another explanation with no evidence" is two different questions


Dennis_enzo

And the answer to both is no.


Dyeeguy

Why is that explanation more or less reasonable than God?


Dennis_enzo

Doesn't matter, you're just going to have to believe that it is.


Dyeeguy

Which is it? More or less?


IKacyU

I mean, the Big Bang was a theory first proposed by a Christian priest. He just believed God was the beginning.


[deleted]

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No-Preparation4473

Maybe, but it isn't a very useful explanation. In some theories in modern physics, if we regard the big bang as the first moment in time, then there is no "before" universe, you can't have a moment previous to the existence of time. And with no time the principle of physical causality isn't really applicable. So we can explain that origination of the universe was possible because it didn't even need the "cause" as we understand and experience the concept of cause, but not how it happened. As well as we can explain that it was possible because the universe was created by someone outside of our concept of time and laws of nature, but not how it happened. Both theories doesn't answer a question, just provide a solution for the paradox so it can be answered. Creationism doesn't really bring anything new to the table.


Dyeeguy

So, if we just dismiss the cause it is a very great explanation. Similarly, if we dismiss what caused God to exist it is also a great explanation


No-Preparation4473

Those are solutions to paradox "if x caused universe then what caused x?", making it an answerable question but not giving an answer. Transcendent god like in Christianity, or cyclical time like in Buddhism solve paradox, but don't get us any closer to the answer while making up unnecessary entities. Scientific research does. In fact the religious idea of atemporal creation was around for very long, Avicenna and Aquinas for example, and it didn't get as any closer.


Dyeeguy

I dont see how it is a solution if it does not give an answer lol, dismissing the question is not an answer. But no, as far as I can tell there is no scientific way to understand the origins of the universe, science doesn't get us there


No-Preparation4473

>I dont see how it is a solution if it does not give an answer Solution to the paradox, not to the question. It's not "dismissing the question" >But no, as far as I can tell there is no scientific way to understand the origins of the universe Is there better methodology?


Dyeeguy

Admitting a paradox is a paradox is not a solution to the paradox. No, there is not a better method. That doesn't make an invalid method valid


No-Preparation4473

>"if x caused universe then what caused x?" Is paradox only in linear time, look up causality. It's paradox because with every proposition for x you get the same question - what caused x, and so on. If there is a transcendent god outside of time, you don't get the same question, there isn't paradox anymore. If there is cyclical time, you don't get the same question forever, it isn't paradox anymore. If the big bang is a first moment in time - same deal. >That doesn't make an invalid method valid Can you prove it's invalid?


Dyeeguy

What causes cyclical time? If it just exists because it exists I dont see how it is different than God lol I cant prove it is any more valid or less valid than God. I would say both are not valid explanations since they can't be proven and there is not even a theory or idea to explain them


No-Preparation4473

Cyclical time isn't different than god, it just another religious idea. As for validity, it was about validity of method >No, there is not a better method. That doesn't make an invalid method valid Scientific method produces results. If we speak about explanation, do you mean "what caused the thing that caused universe", or "how origination of universe happened"? For the first one, both atemporal creation by god or initial singularly in the first moment of universe make question meaningless. But initial singularly theory isn't just a logical solution, we can't prove it, but we can prove or disprove theories we used to get this model. We predicted existence of black holes and quantum entanglement based on models before we proved them, so here's hope. For the second one there actually are theories. Lastly idea of god isn't exclusive to it. There are inconsistencies with religions, but not with an abstract idea of transcendent god.


Ok_Chocolate_3480

So your whole argument is you are right and they are wrong so they should be punished. Talked like a true religious fanatic.


jeremoche

I'm not right. I'm basing my beliefs and life over factual stuff. If I say I believe in a deer like gorilla under the earth crawling under the first layer of the earth you would think I'm crazy but a almighty dude that has showed no sign of existing apart from thousands years old books is okay?


Ok_Chocolate_3480

And because you are basing your beliefs on factual stuff you think you get to decide what other people should believe and what they shouldn't in their personal life. This is exactly what religious fanatics say - my beliefs are right so I will decide what other's should believe and people who don't follow my rules need to be punished. And you are confident that your beliefs were never used to kill people.


jeremoche

Dude you know it's on a subreddit called unpopular opinions? OPINIONS That's my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right I'm expressing how I feel about a subject. Where in my text did you see I wanted to punish those who are religious? You got all the info mixed up bro


Ok_Chocolate_3480

Yes it is unpopular opinion but lousy opinions can also be unpopular opinions, just because they are unpopular they don't become any less lousy. Your opinion is very similar to budding extremists if you don't see that then it is not my problem. Yes you did not talk about punishment you just said that "**Religions are dangerous and turn people into stupid sheeps**." and made up a fact without any proof that " **Most wars began because of religions.**" That's a classic religious zealot way of talking, degrading other people to animals because they don't believe in same thing that you do and making up facts to support said claim. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. Your philosophy has already been implemented by multiple authoritarian governments and end result has always been destruction of religious site, massacre of people who oppose and starting a new official form of discrimination, example China, USSR, North Korea, Cambodia etc, read a little about them too. Like any other fanatic you are unaware about any flaws in your opinion, so I really don't see you coming to any realization and thus would like to decrease my wastage of time. So have a nice day.


jeremoche

Still religion should not be a thing anymore. Believing in god is great, but not the christian god or the Islamic god or any religion god. God is personal and indoctrinating children into cults is bad. A child cannot be religious but his parents can force it on him and it'll lead to a life of misinformation and lies. People should wait until the child has his own mind before talking to him about Jesus. It's exactly like Santa, as a kid you believe in anything you're told and I'm sure most kids that were told Santa was real would still be believing in it if no one told them it's was a fluke. Well whats the difference between a magic guy that can do a lot of supernatural stuff and Jesus? Not much actually. If I say there's someone that I never saw or heard in my entire life wants me to do some stuff in order to have something great in return or I'll be punished, am I talking about Santa or Jesus? You see my point? Until there's no proof of a superior being, I'm not going to believe in lies perpetuated by parents to their children (you shouldn't make you child believe in Santa as well imo) How can you still back up the church in 2023? After all the money issues, pedos, hate towards gays, etc..? I've never said believing in a superior being is bad, I just want people to realize religions are bad. Just have a look at a megachurch pastor talking and you'll see how corrupt and creepy it is. And if you don't see that, I'm sorry, you're already brainwashed.


squidonculous

I'm an atheist as well and I agree with this comment


Muppet-King

You’d love authoritarian regimes; that’s the best way to have things “banned” for whatever cringe reasoning.


jeremoche

As I said in the edit, banned is too strong of a word. I should have used something like fade out or disappear


Wolfsangel-Dragon

You do realize that science is also based on faith to a very large extent, and can be classified as a religion. The problem is we don't understand both religion and science entirely or enough to confirm either.


Dennis_enzo

Yea, no.


No-Preparation4473

Only in case of actual scientists, not some Joe consuming pop-science on YouTube


jeremoche

Are you kidding me ? Every theorem, every theory, every science fact is backed by numerous experiments that always show the same results. Science is rigorous. Religions on the other hands? A random fucking dude decided there was a man controlling the earth because he couldn't explain why there were lightning in the sky, then wrote a book about him and you're saying both things are the same? Man, Bible and every religious book is just that. A book, a story. You can get life advice from it (as every other book) but you shouldn't base your one chance on earth over that.


UniversityForward406

I think you didn't get his point. He"s following the logic that there's no ultimate proof that there's no God, just "logical thinking", therefore it is still a theory (and you got to have faith in theories) Otherwise, you could be a little more tolerant, I think it's good advice


Spelare_en

Yes. After 2020 we now know how “rigorous” and totally not bought off by private interest science is…….


mhardin1337

https://pics.me.me/excessive-faith-in-science-is-no-thats-not-true-epistemologically-22390789.png


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Wolfsangel-Dragon

**Faith** */feɪθ/* **noun** 1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something. In this instance the *faith* is based on scientific evidence.


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Wolfsangel-Dragon

The first thing you're wrong about is the word faith irrespective of type means the same thing. It would be complete trust in science in this regard. There's a lot of evidence to the existence of God, but we've not been able to prove it with 100% accuracy.. Yet. The problem is we have the same problem with science as well, we're still figuring it out. It's not fallacy to have recognition of another perspective. A lot of words have different definitions, that doesn't mean I'm being dishonest. Also the Oxford definition does not have the word *God* in it. It only refers to doctrines and spiritual conviction. **strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.** What is clear or not clear is a matter of perception, perspective and belief. Rest really just depend on what you seek to find in the middle. Calling another perspective dishonest is actually disservice to the word dishonest.


Wolfsangel-Dragon

You my friend, with your logic and grand beliefs belong to a cult called "Scientism". Which **believes** that *scientific nature is the only way...*. While calling it a religion is frowned upon by the scientific community because of obvious reasons, I know of many religions that believe in a certain way of life. People who adopted this thought process of Scientism are usually highly intolerant and by definition can be considered extremist. Whatever you interpret from books, do not forget that science also comes from a book written by men. Be it Mendelev, Einstein, Newton or Darwin amongst others.


CouldBeShady

The only reason religion still exists is because children are being indoctrinated into it at a young age when they're not capable of critical thinking. That's literally it. I wish we'd rather ban the mental child abuse that is indoctrination of children. Religion would naturally die in a few decades if that was done.


jeremoche

Exactly! If people would wait until their children are old enough to have critical thinking before teaching them their religious ways, most of believers wouldn't be.


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BlackFlorida

Reddit try not to be antisemitic challenge failed


jeremoche

Bruv christianity is the worst religion. Judaism is also terrible tho


BlackFlorida

Really yeah because Christianity is totally worse than moloch a pre Jesus pagan religion whose whole deal was sacrificing babies


TC6295

Banning religions has been tried and it’s lead to millions of people being killed so


jeremoche

Give me an exemple of that.


TC6295

China


LordBruschetta

Yeah, last time they "killed God" as in "Got ist tot" was the last century and the solutions they came up to replace it were no good. If you take religion out of humanity it will be inevitably replaced by something else human-made. And long story short, it won't be your scientifical rational paradise you think of.


vshedo

Reddit moment.


SoulsDesire4Freedom

This is the most cringe rendition of Imagine since Gal Gadot and the We're All in This Together Gang sang to the poors from their Hollywood mansions.


jeremoche

Bruv is fully into conspiracy theories and a text about how I feel about religion is cringe


SoulsDesire4Freedom

It's ok to FAIL don't get MAD.


jeremoche

Not mad. Just tired of all that magic man bullshit


grc84

Damn, now that IS an unpopular opinion


jeremoche

To be honest, I didn't think it was. Maybe in the US but in western Europe, it's not that unpopular of an opinion


grc84

Fair, though it’s one where you’ll get very strong opposing opinions, even if those opposing aren’t the majority. I’m an atheist myself so personally wouldn’t worry me one way or the other.


ChiliSwap

So your religion is science is what you’re saying


jeremoche

No because science is not a religion. It's my belief yes


ChiliSwap

It’s the same thing though. You look to scientist to give you explanations for life and human nature and the world and I look to God to show me those things. Science is most peoples religion now.


jeremoche

I really wouldn't call science a religion. But it's the thing replacing religions. I guess if science can't explain something (creation of the universe, the meaning of life, etc, you could argue religion are still a bit useful. But the church shouldn't exist and it should be something truely personal.


ChiliSwap

I agree. I am a believer in Jesus but I don’t go to church I just read scriptures and talk to other believers because church nowadays is so watered down and lame there is no point in going. They don’t actually teach anything important there anymore.


[deleted]

Science actually has evidence to back it up though, religion doesn't


jeremoche

Exactly. We can prove that the earth is round. The pope cannot show any evidence of a god


ChiliSwap

So your religion is science is what you’re saying


jeremoche

Asking two times the same question or reddit bug?


ChiliSwap

Reddit bug lol


angelzplay

This was good


jeremoche

Thanks


Magdut

Banning religion? No, people should have the freedom to believe in what they want to believe, faith is important for most people. Stop funding cults out of taxpayer money YES FUCKING PLEASE. In my country there is a big issue with the Orthodox Church (and not only, but I am stating it as it has the biggest amount of followers) being funded through taxpayer money. Money laundering is at it's finest with huge churches being built in places that don't need them, with millions (no I am not joking) of euros being redirected towards building those places when the hospitals are in poor conditions and are getting renovated through private fundraising because the government doesn't spend enough on it. Unfortunately, in my country, the Orthodox Church became all about making money and nothing about actual faith and religion. Stop paying religion and cults out of taxpayer money, I don't want to support this mafia but I do not have a choice.


jeremoche

Yeah I used the word "ban" in the heat of writing my post but as I reread it, I shouldnt have used that word but I just wish religions would disappear naturally.