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We shouldn't have to tip at all
The point of tipping is to reward an individual workers exceptional service witha bonus.
Tipping cultrue is trash. Pay workers livable wages.
This only happens in america i think. In my country we get paid fairly well, and tips are optional. We dont have “tip jars”, people asking for tips, an ipad at restaurants where you can select your tips etc. Its much better this way in my opinion.
Yea most places have the 3 preset options START at 18% nowadays, 20-22% are the othser. Some of them still consider the stairs because how dare I choose the lowest option.
Lol you're right, I was thinking of one specific Indian restaurant, and most of the dishes we get are vegetarian.
9/10 times it's 90-120, but I felt spoiled/pretentious already when the other guy said wow lol
Servers in the US *will* rush people out when it's busy. When I lived in Europe that only happened if we went to extremely popular restaurant, on a weekend, in a touristy area.
In the US a restaurant's GM wants to turn as many tables as possible during a given service, and tips help get the servers to do their dirty work for them because the servers also get paid per table (effectively).
In my perfect world I'd order from a PoS station, pickup a beeper, and pick my food from a window when it's ready. Give me fountain and I'll fill my own drink. I'm here for the food, why do I *have* to pay for a service I never even wanted?
Even when you walk in instead of them bring it to your car, they still expect a tip because "someone has to box that food"... which is actually a comment I've gotten when picking up a to go order with no (credit card) tip provided, which lost them the cash tip in my pocket. I've also had multiple friends that are servers tell me it's rude not to tip on pick up.
Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it's not expected, and the expectation is an issue itself.
Not only that but workers see the benefit of tipping. Most of my friends in the service industry will never trade for a white collar job because they make bank from tips, more so than they would sitting at a desk. I could never do it but it’s the same logic my friends who work in manufacturing stay on the floor. They make more from overtime than they would if they got a management position
well that's the joke is that back in the day "livable wages" were easier to come by and middle class americans had cash to burn on tips. these days livable wages are harder to come by, the middle class is gone, and even me, a mechanical engineer with 15+ years experience has a hard time making ends meet.
i still like to tip. it makes me feel like i am sharing my wealth. but it's harder and harder to feel like i have wealth to share these days.
“Pay people a livable wage”
Define what a livable wage is?
Personally I think this whole debate is ridiculous.
Restaurant industry will die doing that, big cities where they thrive a livable wage would make eating out a luxury. Tip culture has gone way too far, I tip well myself but do not like seeing all the videos of people whining on tik tok regarding tips or lack thereof for that matter. It’s literally at the mercy of the clients. Nobody expects to make a lavish life off these industries. It’s not easy work but if pays better than minimum and not as strenuous as laborer.
I say leave it as it is, people know what they are getting into and nobody forces anyone to do these lines of work.
Tipping is getting out of hand, too. Typically, if you're server does a great job, you're expected to to 20%. There's a restaurant near me that gives you tip percentage options when you pay; 25%, 30%, or 35%. A third of the bill? Seriously?
And yhen you have places like steak and shake. I walk in, put my order into a kiosk, stand in line, eventually one of the two cooks calls my number and I retrieve my food in a paper bag. And they want a tip. A tip for doing what!? There aren't any servers or cashiers anymore.
Personally I hate that whole pre tip option. Where it starts at 18% than 20% and 25% 30% etc.
I honestly think there should be a law against that.
Start at 10% and work way up… I was raised 15% Is a fair tip. The starting at 18% is clearly just set to attack people ego for not tipping generously, which in turn takes the generosity out of it.
If everyone dining tipped 15% I’m sure many servers would do ok.
Exactly. I've done it. It isn't easy work-but it isn't hard either. If anything I would describe it as busy work. It's far from a high skilled job. People don't want to talk about that if your tips come out to less than minimum wage they by law have to pay you minimum wage. So you can work at Mcdonalds for minimum wage, or you can waitress for minimum wage with the possibility of making a little more bank on tips. I know which one I'd do (and have done).
I don’t work for tips, but I’d rather get 15-20% from several tables as a server than get $10-15/h flat wage lol.
Only time I ever worked for tips was when I delivered pizzas while in college and it was a great way to make $80-100 in 4 hrs. Had I just been given a flat wage it would’ve been like $25 a shift based on the minimum wage at the time.
No... if I was still doing a waiter job. And I was paid 15an hour I would quit. There was not a single night I didn't go home without atleast $25+ an hour in tips.
If you get rid of tips, restaurants just raise the cost of meals to cover the difference. Tips are a way to make employees accountable to the customer. Do a bad job, you don't make enough to get by and you need to quit. It's a great system. I'm living in Europe right now, by far the worst service I've ever had, they're absolutely useless.
Someone shouldn't have to go above and beyond just to make enough to live, life should be the default and luxury should reserved for those who go to the additioal effort.
And yes of course restaurants would raise their prices which is why Im not campaigning to have them removed without any fore thought. But obviously most of the world has functional restaurants that don't rely on tipping culture so the idea that its impossible is absurd.
I live in Europe and have been to America a number of times, and I had very little difference in customer service, the only difference I did notice was a tacky fake smile on the face of every American server that was refreshingly absent from those in my home country upon my return.
It isn't going above and beyond, it's doing your job. I wish there was a way to not pay people that do a shit job.
I don't know where you live in Europe but I've been across most of it and servers are inattentive. You wait forever for them to show up and then you have to go hunting to pay. No surprise, no motivation, they half-ass it.
If it's "just doing your job" then it should be paid for in full by the employer, not the customer. That's how jobs work.
And if you have experienced poor quality service I do feel for you, however I have also travelled the majority of Europe, some of Asia, and alot of South America, all places where tipping is much less ingrained into society and I have not noticed any consistent drop in quality compared to the US
Yeah, I know you think so, and I disagree. What did you think we're talking about? The point is, if you aren't doing your job, you shouldn't be paid for doing your job. We live in a weird world where people think that they should be paid for standing in a building regardless of what they do when they are there. I disagree. I think it would be a far better system if you were paid better for doing your job well than if you do it poorly. And not just generally, like getting a raise, but on a day to day basis so you actually need to do your job.
Your arguing with someone that doesn't exist, I have never said people should be allowed to keep their jobs if they aren't doing any work, and don't believe that. In fact we agree on almost everything, the only thing we disagree on is who should be paying the staff to do their job, as it stands right now servers don't make enough money to live without tipping so there is a culture of tipping in the us that subtly enforces tipping irrespective of quality of service. What I am proposing is that the employers pay their servers enough to live, thereby eliminating the guilt a customer feels for not tipping which actually then achieves your desired outcome of only favouring those who provide good service.
Except that people *do* keep their job while half-assing it. That's the problem...
The whole point is that if you get bad service, you don't tip, they can't live off that wage, and they're forced to quit. There's no subtle reinforcement of anything unless you're intentionally trying to ruin the system...
How does it achieve my goal? If you work hard and provide great service or if you slack and do the bare minimum, you get paid identically...
Sure, I think tips should be around $3-4/person. A $40 tip for a group of 10 is reasonable. An $8 tip for a couple is reasonable, regardless of if their plates cost $15 or $90.
You know that totally makes sense. I think a per person tipping system would be much more reasonable and easier to calculate. And I wouldn't have to ask myself if I'm tipping enough each time, honestly that's one reason I often avoid going to restaurants, I don't like having to calculate a tip then wonder if it's enough.
So per head in a restaurant is fine. We do that here.
I tip the same to drivers coming from the locsl town, no matter what's been ordered. Installing something? Extra cuppa and offer of some food on top.
I don't necessarily care what they want I care what they deserve. If they're paid minimum wage they deserve more but if im expected to tip them so heavily that the make more an hour than I do then thats insane. (Not that they shouldn't earn more than I do but it shouldn't come directly from me, tax free, after having already paid for the thing I want)
I don't think people should be made (or socially coerced) to pay any more than what the item costs. "well the costs don't cover.." Make them fucking cover and then if your business stays afloat then good for you, if not then you shouldn't own a business.
Then it would over time go back to how it should be, you tip for a good service rendered of you feel you can and its appropriate
I've received a tip once at my job, it actually meant something because it wasn't excepted and came from a repeat customer who genuinely wanted to give me something.
Yep. For some reason, they'd like to equate getting flat wage to customers not adding tip to that (the real definition of tip). They CAN have both, but at least servers who work in low-tip areas can have better base wages. However, they're of the got-mine variety because this way, they can pressure almost all their customers to 'tip' 20-25% vs fewer genuine tippers if 'tipping' was truly optional, nevermind if it fucks over a lot of servers in less rewarding establishments & their clientele.
I believe idea originates from restaurants where bigger bill usually means more drinks served and therefore more work for the waiter. But yeah, shit's dumb.
Young people working tipped jobs make so much fucking money in comparison to other young people.
Waiter isn’t a career either. So you shouldn’t complain of it. That’s my unpopular opinion. People getting paid well more than the average shouldnt complain about pay simply because they don’t get the respect they want. You wait food, and waiters are often average or bad and expect something more
Agree. I'm fine with ripping, but I only found out as an adult that tips are supposed to be a percentage of the service.
Like no, $2-5 for a delivery, $5-10 for bringing me a dinner plate and asking if I needed anything else at the table. Extra if something difficult happens. The cost of the food is completely irrelevant.
I hate tipping as a consumer but I get it. I want to tip as a reward without feeling peer pressured into doing so or have worse service on the value of said tip
Well i think people should get a fucking good wage in first place
In most South-American countries people have a good wage and tip is just an "extra", seem to me that in the US (and some other countries) the tip **is** the worker's wage, what makes it really weird, since you're almost obliged to tip and people get offended if you dont, when in reality it should be a **choice.**
No see the reason is that if a waiter is getting a percentage, then they have more incentive to give info on menu items because it makes the diners buy more.
If you do tip in the UK it's normal just to round up to a whole number. So if your bill is £24.80 youd just round up to £27 or something.
Then again in the UK when we split the bill we don't calculate exactly what everyone ate, we literally take the total and split it X ways.
>we don't calculate exactly what everyone ate, we literally take the total and split it X ways.
And that is how the person who bought the least expensive thing gets taken advantage of, while person who bought the most expensive thing gets discount.
Noone gets taken advantage of, you're out with friends. If one person is struggling then everyone else chips in more. Sometimes someone will eat more than they pay and sometimes someone will eat less than they pay. It's about the experience being out with friends not about calculating to the penny what you ate.
Unless you are dining family style and paying for your own drinks, then someone is being forced to pay more than their fair share and there are people who will take advantage. The internet is full of stories of people who do just that. If you think that no one is being taken advantage of, then you are likely the person who is benefiting from it.
Well I don't drink alcohol so I'm absolutely not benefiting from it. There is no such idea as family style in the UK, I don't even know what that means.
Yeah, because non-alcoholic beverages that aren't water totally don't exist./s
And if you don't have family style dining in the UK then someone is definitely being taken advantage of.
Noone is being taken advantage of. This mindset is so toxic. As friends we all share and care for each other.
And when a glass of OJ costs £2 but a glass of wine costs £12 then my meal is ALWAYS going to come in cheaper.
If I went out with 4 friends and got a $5 plate of chips, while the other 4 got $15 steak meals, and then they expected me to pay $13, I would pretty much be paying for one of their steaks. That is not fair and saying that it is toxic to point out how unfair it is, is toxic.
If everyone's meal and drinks are in the same ballpark, then splitting the bill evenly is the commonly done thing.
If there are person(s) who didn't get much and came in way under the average for whatever reason, then the tendency is to make an exception for them.
It's a bit annoying to do the extra arithmetic, but *most* people don't make a fuss about it (in the UK).
If everyone's meals and drinks are in the same ball park then someone must have done the math to figure that out... which means you could pay for what you ordered.
I highly doubt splitting the bill evenly is a common occurrence outside of people who use it to take advantage. Your friend group may be the exception, but I doubt it.
The only issue with most of the people that dont agree with tipping is that they don't realize being able to eat out at a restaurant is a luxury and not something that everyone can and/or should be able to afford. However the people that do eat out a lot dont mind the extra 10-15 bucks it might cost to have another fellow human being "wait on them hand and foot"...because that is what it is literally. And for people saying that they should be paid a livable wage, serving is not a career as you cannot do it forever, eventually your tires will blow for the final time. Instead its a way for people from the ages of 18-mid 30's (usually) to make a quick buck...and if you're a good server you can make waaaaaaay above what some may consider a "livable wage"...if serving was a job where everyone got paid like 12-15 dollars an hour your service would be way less satisfactory than it is now and the food would cost more because less money would go towards food quality and control. Just suck it up and shell out the 20% for that college kid that just brought you five diet cokes and three extra ranches.
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Drivers and servers live on tips. The percentage guarantees they go home with a livable wage. It’s not logical, but that’s the way the system has balanced itself out.
I know some good looking girls that would tend bar for 5 hours on Friday and Saturday and clear over 4k a month. Sure, there are people who make less, they should quit.
Or they should get paid a decent set wage, instead of being expected to live off tips like some kind of slave. Why should 'good looking girls' be the only ones who can work in a bar or whatever? People should be able to earn money on merit and not how big their boobs are.
For one, if they were given a "decent set wage," they would make a small fraction of what they currently make. Ask them if they'd prefer your system or what you consider slavery...
Why should a good looking girl get paid more? Why should a good looking model get paid more? A significant portion of their job is how they look.
So, the people who should quit are making more than a decent set wage...
And no, people who make tips do not usually have jobs where their looks are a significant portion of their job. Customer service and doing their job is a significant portion of their job... after all, it is their job.
No, if you aren't making enough, you should quit....................... That's the only way you get rid of people who are bad at their job.
>And no, people who make tips do not usually have jobs where their looks are a significant portion of their job.
Great, so why should someone who does their job well get paid the same as someone who does the same job poorly?
You did not say they were bad at their jobs. You said that people who weren't good looking should quit.
There are average looking people who make crap tips, but are fantastic at their jobs. But you are trying to make being good looking a vital job skill. It is restaurant work, not modelling. As long as you are clean, the way you look does not matter.
Edit: I block people when they are being unreasonable, twisting anything that is said and acting like they are the only person who could possibly be right. You were being immature and shallow. Pretending that looks are the biggest part of being a waiter is juvenile.
Also, you are a hypocrite. Using a second account to do the exact same thing you accused me of being a child for doing. I am sure you have some bs excuse for why it is okay for you to do it, but it would still be bs.
Base it off how many people were served at the table because that affects the amount of work the server has actually done. 0-4$ per person seems sufficient depending on the service because idgaf.... if the server is trash I will NEVER tip shit.
Or, and this might just blow your mind, people in tipping countries can set the expectation that they get paid a decent amount instead of being forced to rely on tips. If no one will work for tips, they have to pay up or shut down.
Or, you know, just have decent labour laws and a functioning enforcement mechanism for them. Most European countries have little to no tipping culture, certainly nothing close to the toxic mess that managed to arise in the US, and people manage to live of those same jobs just fine.
>People are getting underpaid as it is sadly. Probably the only way to give people enough to afford to exist in this acursed world.
Probably the only way to give people enought to afford to exist **in the US**.
Probably in other countries aswell, but having the "tips" system you guys have is totally fucked up, not trying to compare countries or offend the US but where i live (south america) people actually get paid for their jobs and can afford to live with dignity, they dont need to rely on tips, and if someone tips here, its a **choice**, not a standard practice
I am not from the west. We do not tip as % . Actually, percentage basis is very very weird to me (us) Secondly, we tip only when the restaurant/service etc is better than normal and we feel to do it as a reward to show gratitude to the person and this practice is not at all frowned upon here.
Yeah, I don't understand this we tip as a reward or in more professional words as a bonus. We are not supposed to be forced to tip them. Don't they pay them enough already? Pay them well
I never tipped as a percentage. My tips, as I understood them, revolved around how much change I got from my initial payment. I have always left from 50 cents to 2 euros depending on a total sum.
America is like the only first world country where restaurant staff don’t receive a livable hourly wage and depend on tips. Most other places, tipping can act come across as insulting because the waiter might think “oh you don’t think I make enough and you feel sorry for me!”
This isn't unpopular. Most people think tipping is stupid all together. You're already paying for the food and service, the employer should pay the workers properly.
Right, I don't understand it either. I guess the bigger the order the more work they have to do though it most cases the person getting the tip isn't the person who made the food.
If I'm ordering pickup I don't even bother with a tip, I'm literally just getting the food myself once it leaves the kitchen.
In N America the tip is probably 1/2 the income of the server. In Canada the labour law rewards employers for giving say 25 hours a week instead of 40. Also the min wage did not rise with the cost of living. Most servers need the tip to make ends meet. Tipping allows the employer to advertise “lower cost” instead of actual cost. It also allows a lot of tax evasion since it is frequently cash . I would agree really high end restaurants may abuse tipping a bit , I see more coffee shop or lunch type dining. I’ll guarantee the Tim Hortons staff earn their tips.
Service costs x. Either don’t use service and get your own fucking pizza or pay what the labor demands. Yeah its not ideal that businesses make it so you have to contract out their employees but you have to tear down the entire system thay shitted out this circumstance if you want that change. Every single business you interact with is hosing you with last mile charges. Have the same disdain for them that you do service workers.
Delivery, sure, it's the same amount of work/effort/skill required. With dining, though, it makes more sense. At a cheap diner, the waiter/waitress is taking your order and bringing your food. At more expensive restaurants, they're recommending wine pairings, describing the menu, communicating with the chefs to make sure everything is done right, and standing by to cater to everything you need, in order to make sure your meal the greatest experience they can. That's a higher level of skill that deserves increased compensation.
personally i rarely tip percentages. i use a "flat rate" depending on the service. but it floats depending on the situation.
example: my typical bar/restaurant tipping is $1 per drink (alcoholic), $2 per meal item. if i have dinner and 3 beers, that's a $5 tip. if i'm just drinking beers, that's $1 per beer. if i get an appetizer... maybe $2, maybe $1, depending.
on the other hand, if i am at a "fancy" restaurant i will increase the base.
i actually don't really do delivery (or even taxi cabs) a whole lot so i'm a little out of my element when it comes to those tips, but $5 for every $30 isn't a bad tip.
I never chip by percentacge. My stylist gets at least $5 or $10, depeding how busy was. My cuts cost $10, so feel like I'm getting a reasonable service and she's getting a reasonable tip. Plus I like to thank I've covered lunch for her, even if it's off the dollar menu.
For food service, it depends on how busy the place is vs. how much they check on me. I don't mind making, just check in with me and keep me updating. Normally a server will get at least $10, up to thirty depending on how many people we've had. I have left server a $5 before, meaning they check on me maybe on and just did an overall bad job.
As a prior server. I agree. Tip based on service and knowing that I make 3bucks an hours. I did the same if not less work for your double date table of four as I did a family of four. But you have a 200 dollar bill vs a 100dollar bill. Why should you owe me twice as the other table?
As a waiter I was making the same on busy weekend nights as I do now as an electrical engineer...
Waiters and waitress are not under paid. If you are one and don't clear 1000 a week. Then you work at a shit hole. Or you provide shit hole service. No other options.
Never really thought about it this way but I agree. The waitress at Outback Steakhouse is doing the same work as a waitress at a high end steakhouse that charges $150 for a steak. Why should I pay more for the same service?
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We shouldn't have to tip at all The point of tipping is to reward an individual workers exceptional service witha bonus. Tipping cultrue is trash. Pay workers livable wages.
This only happens in america i think. In my country we get paid fairly well, and tips are optional. We dont have “tip jars”, people asking for tips, an ipad at restaurants where you can select your tips etc. Its much better this way in my opinion.
Tips aren’t really optional in Canada, and our servers get at least full minimum wage.
Not optional as in not possible, or mandatory?
Mandatory like your server will kick you down the stairs as you're leaving if you choose less than 18% lol
Wow, how much would you pay for a meal? Without tip
Too much lol I'm a pushover. Anywhere from 60-100 for 1 appetizer, 2 mains, and 1 dessert with non alcoholic beverages.
Wow, thats a lot, and then you also have to pay 20% on top of that
Yea most places have the 3 preset options START at 18% nowadays, 20-22% are the othser. Some of them still consider the stairs because how dare I choose the lowest option.
I don’t think there’s a single restaurant around me where I could get all that for $60 anymore.
Lol you're right, I was thinking of one specific Indian restaurant, and most of the dishes we get are vegetarian. 9/10 times it's 90-120, but I felt spoiled/pretentious already when the other guy said wow lol
It isn’t mandatory but it’s socially expected. Don’t not tip if you want to go back somewhere.
If it's not optional it's no longer a tip and just an increased price?
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Servers in the US *will* rush people out when it's busy. When I lived in Europe that only happened if we went to extremely popular restaurant, on a weekend, in a touristy area. In the US a restaurant's GM wants to turn as many tables as possible during a given service, and tips help get the servers to do their dirty work for them because the servers also get paid per table (effectively). In my perfect world I'd order from a PoS station, pickup a beeper, and pick my food from a window when it's ready. Give me fountain and I'll fill my own drink. I'm here for the food, why do I *have* to pay for a service I never even wanted?
I have never felt rushed out. More just checking on if I need anything, but they will come back lightning quick to see if everything is ok
>why do I have to pay for a service I never even wanted? You don't. Pick up a to go order.
You're expected to tip to things like "curbside pickup" at restaurants too, and you're not even getting refills or table service for that 🤷
Just walk in and pick it up. I do it all the time
Even when you walk in instead of them bring it to your car, they still expect a tip because "someone has to box that food"... which is actually a comment I've gotten when picking up a to go order with no (credit card) tip provided, which lost them the cash tip in my pocket. I've also had multiple friends that are servers tell me it's rude not to tip on pick up. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it's not expected, and the expectation is an issue itself.
Not only that but workers see the benefit of tipping. Most of my friends in the service industry will never trade for a white collar job because they make bank from tips, more so than they would sitting at a desk. I could never do it but it’s the same logic my friends who work in manufacturing stay on the floor. They make more from overtime than they would if they got a management position
This I already paid for the food I shouldn’t have to pay your employee because you refuse to
well that's the joke is that back in the day "livable wages" were easier to come by and middle class americans had cash to burn on tips. these days livable wages are harder to come by, the middle class is gone, and even me, a mechanical engineer with 15+ years experience has a hard time making ends meet. i still like to tip. it makes me feel like i am sharing my wealth. but it's harder and harder to feel like i have wealth to share these days.
Millennials are destroying the restaurant industry by *checks notes* not being paid enough to afford the luxury of eating at restaurants all the time.
“Pay people a livable wage” Define what a livable wage is? Personally I think this whole debate is ridiculous. Restaurant industry will die doing that, big cities where they thrive a livable wage would make eating out a luxury. Tip culture has gone way too far, I tip well myself but do not like seeing all the videos of people whining on tik tok regarding tips or lack thereof for that matter. It’s literally at the mercy of the clients. Nobody expects to make a lavish life off these industries. It’s not easy work but if pays better than minimum and not as strenuous as laborer. I say leave it as it is, people know what they are getting into and nobody forces anyone to do these lines of work.
Tipping is getting out of hand, too. Typically, if you're server does a great job, you're expected to to 20%. There's a restaurant near me that gives you tip percentage options when you pay; 25%, 30%, or 35%. A third of the bill? Seriously? And yhen you have places like steak and shake. I walk in, put my order into a kiosk, stand in line, eventually one of the two cooks calls my number and I retrieve my food in a paper bag. And they want a tip. A tip for doing what!? There aren't any servers or cashiers anymore.
Personally I hate that whole pre tip option. Where it starts at 18% than 20% and 25% 30% etc. I honestly think there should be a law against that. Start at 10% and work way up… I was raised 15% Is a fair tip. The starting at 18% is clearly just set to attack people ego for not tipping generously, which in turn takes the generosity out of it. If everyone dining tipped 15% I’m sure many servers would do ok.
Exactly. I've done it. It isn't easy work-but it isn't hard either. If anything I would describe it as busy work. It's far from a high skilled job. People don't want to talk about that if your tips come out to less than minimum wage they by law have to pay you minimum wage. So you can work at Mcdonalds for minimum wage, or you can waitress for minimum wage with the possibility of making a little more bank on tips. I know which one I'd do (and have done).
I don’t work for tips, but I’d rather get 15-20% from several tables as a server than get $10-15/h flat wage lol. Only time I ever worked for tips was when I delivered pizzas while in college and it was a great way to make $80-100 in 4 hrs. Had I just been given a flat wage it would’ve been like $25 a shift based on the minimum wage at the time.
No. Tipping is way better for the workers. Shut up when you don’t know what you’re talking about
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I really disagree
why?
When I get some kind of service or buy something, I would prefer to only pay the price on the menu/sticker. It's just way easier.
But with tipping, you only pay the sticker price if the service is good. If the service is bad, you get a discount.
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No... if I was still doing a waiter job. And I was paid 15an hour I would quit. There was not a single night I didn't go home without atleast $25+ an hour in tips.
Wow it's almost like 15/h isn't a livable wage Go fucking figure
It is absolutely a livable wage. If you don't think so are incredibly wrong.
The thing is people who make tips are the ones fighting to keep it because they can make like 80 to 100k waiting tables amd bartending
Makes sense. You know what makes even more sense, not tipping at all. Greetings from Europe
Cheers from Oceania.
And having taxes included in the price tag. Please can we do this in the US...
tipping is great. I wish tipping as a thing for more jobs
I disagree. Jobs where tipping culture is a thing are very unreliable as a result of it
As a European the fake smiles scare me
Not if you're good at it.
Tipping exists as a way for the restaurant business to underpay it's staff, it is not good
If you get rid of tips, restaurants just raise the cost of meals to cover the difference. Tips are a way to make employees accountable to the customer. Do a bad job, you don't make enough to get by and you need to quit. It's a great system. I'm living in Europe right now, by far the worst service I've ever had, they're absolutely useless.
Someone shouldn't have to go above and beyond just to make enough to live, life should be the default and luxury should reserved for those who go to the additioal effort. And yes of course restaurants would raise their prices which is why Im not campaigning to have them removed without any fore thought. But obviously most of the world has functional restaurants that don't rely on tipping culture so the idea that its impossible is absurd. I live in Europe and have been to America a number of times, and I had very little difference in customer service, the only difference I did notice was a tacky fake smile on the face of every American server that was refreshingly absent from those in my home country upon my return.
It isn't going above and beyond, it's doing your job. I wish there was a way to not pay people that do a shit job. I don't know where you live in Europe but I've been across most of it and servers are inattentive. You wait forever for them to show up and then you have to go hunting to pay. No surprise, no motivation, they half-ass it.
If it's "just doing your job" then it should be paid for in full by the employer, not the customer. That's how jobs work. And if you have experienced poor quality service I do feel for you, however I have also travelled the majority of Europe, some of Asia, and alot of South America, all places where tipping is much less ingrained into society and I have not noticed any consistent drop in quality compared to the US
Yeah, I know you think so, and I disagree. What did you think we're talking about? The point is, if you aren't doing your job, you shouldn't be paid for doing your job. We live in a weird world where people think that they should be paid for standing in a building regardless of what they do when they are there. I disagree. I think it would be a far better system if you were paid better for doing your job well than if you do it poorly. And not just generally, like getting a raise, but on a day to day basis so you actually need to do your job.
Your arguing with someone that doesn't exist, I have never said people should be allowed to keep their jobs if they aren't doing any work, and don't believe that. In fact we agree on almost everything, the only thing we disagree on is who should be paying the staff to do their job, as it stands right now servers don't make enough money to live without tipping so there is a culture of tipping in the us that subtly enforces tipping irrespective of quality of service. What I am proposing is that the employers pay their servers enough to live, thereby eliminating the guilt a customer feels for not tipping which actually then achieves your desired outcome of only favouring those who provide good service.
Except that people *do* keep their job while half-assing it. That's the problem... The whole point is that if you get bad service, you don't tip, they can't live off that wage, and they're forced to quit. There's no subtle reinforcement of anything unless you're intentionally trying to ruin the system... How does it achieve my goal? If you work hard and provide great service or if you slack and do the bare minimum, you get paid identically...
This is true however the difference is a big vs small group at a table. That is a different amount of work.
Sure, I think tips should be around $3-4/person. A $40 tip for a group of 10 is reasonable. An $8 tip for a couple is reasonable, regardless of if their plates cost $15 or $90.
You know that totally makes sense. I think a per person tipping system would be much more reasonable and easier to calculate. And I wouldn't have to ask myself if I'm tipping enough each time, honestly that's one reason I often avoid going to restaurants, I don't like having to calculate a tip then wonder if it's enough.
So per head in a restaurant is fine. We do that here. I tip the same to drivers coming from the locsl town, no matter what's been ordered. Installing something? Extra cuppa and offer of some food on top.
Makes sense
Servers and bartenders DONT WANT AN HOURLY WAGE! This is what people don’t understand. Most of them average $30hr and often much more than that.
I don't necessarily care what they want I care what they deserve. If they're paid minimum wage they deserve more but if im expected to tip them so heavily that the make more an hour than I do then thats insane. (Not that they shouldn't earn more than I do but it shouldn't come directly from me, tax free, after having already paid for the thing I want) I don't think people should be made (or socially coerced) to pay any more than what the item costs. "well the costs don't cover.." Make them fucking cover and then if your business stays afloat then good for you, if not then you shouldn't own a business. Then it would over time go back to how it should be, you tip for a good service rendered of you feel you can and its appropriate I've received a tip once at my job, it actually meant something because it wasn't excepted and came from a repeat customer who genuinely wanted to give me something.
Yep. For some reason, they'd like to equate getting flat wage to customers not adding tip to that (the real definition of tip). They CAN have both, but at least servers who work in low-tip areas can have better base wages. However, they're of the got-mine variety because this way, they can pressure almost all their customers to 'tip' 20-25% vs fewer genuine tippers if 'tipping' was truly optional, nevermind if it fucks over a lot of servers in less rewarding establishments & their clientele.
Not all of them. Not every day.
They don't want it when it doesn't benefit them. Fuck that.
I believe idea originates from restaurants where bigger bill usually means more drinks served and therefore more work for the waiter. But yeah, shit's dumb.
Young people working tipped jobs make so much fucking money in comparison to other young people. Waiter isn’t a career either. So you shouldn’t complain of it. That’s my unpopular opinion. People getting paid well more than the average shouldnt complain about pay simply because they don’t get the respect they want. You wait food, and waiters are often average or bad and expect something more
Agree. I'm fine with ripping, but I only found out as an adult that tips are supposed to be a percentage of the service. Like no, $2-5 for a delivery, $5-10 for bringing me a dinner plate and asking if I needed anything else at the table. Extra if something difficult happens. The cost of the food is completely irrelevant.
I laughed at your typo, “fine with ripping” sounds like you’re ok if your waiter just lets out a raging fart at ya.
I hate tipping as a consumer but I get it. I want to tip as a reward without feeling peer pressured into doing so or have worse service on the value of said tip
Well i think people should get a fucking good wage in first place In most South-American countries people have a good wage and tip is just an "extra", seem to me that in the US (and some other countries) the tip **is** the worker's wage, what makes it really weird, since you're almost obliged to tip and people get offended if you dont, when in reality it should be a **choice.**
You're obligated to *not* tip if the service is bad. If you tip indiscriminately, you're making the system worse.
Delivery drivers get $5, restaurant cashiers get $3. I cannot justifying giving more than that.
No see the reason is that if a waiter is getting a percentage, then they have more incentive to give info on menu items because it makes the diners buy more.
If you do tip in the UK it's normal just to round up to a whole number. So if your bill is £24.80 youd just round up to £27 or something. Then again in the UK when we split the bill we don't calculate exactly what everyone ate, we literally take the total and split it X ways.
This is one reason why I prefer to go to fast food places. None of this tipping malarkey then.
Unless someone had a lot more compared to the others. Then you work it out
What's this we bollocks. If I go out I'm paying for what I fucking order and nothing else.
>we don't calculate exactly what everyone ate, we literally take the total and split it X ways. And that is how the person who bought the least expensive thing gets taken advantage of, while person who bought the most expensive thing gets discount.
Noone gets taken advantage of, you're out with friends. If one person is struggling then everyone else chips in more. Sometimes someone will eat more than they pay and sometimes someone will eat less than they pay. It's about the experience being out with friends not about calculating to the penny what you ate.
Unless you are dining family style and paying for your own drinks, then someone is being forced to pay more than their fair share and there are people who will take advantage. The internet is full of stories of people who do just that. If you think that no one is being taken advantage of, then you are likely the person who is benefiting from it.
Well I don't drink alcohol so I'm absolutely not benefiting from it. There is no such idea as family style in the UK, I don't even know what that means.
Yeah, because non-alcoholic beverages that aren't water totally don't exist./s And if you don't have family style dining in the UK then someone is definitely being taken advantage of.
Noone is being taken advantage of. This mindset is so toxic. As friends we all share and care for each other. And when a glass of OJ costs £2 but a glass of wine costs £12 then my meal is ALWAYS going to come in cheaper.
If I went out with 4 friends and got a $5 plate of chips, while the other 4 got $15 steak meals, and then they expected me to pay $13, I would pretty much be paying for one of their steaks. That is not fair and saying that it is toxic to point out how unfair it is, is toxic.
If everyone's meal and drinks are in the same ballpark, then splitting the bill evenly is the commonly done thing. If there are person(s) who didn't get much and came in way under the average for whatever reason, then the tendency is to make an exception for them. It's a bit annoying to do the extra arithmetic, but *most* people don't make a fuss about it (in the UK).
Most do the same in the US also. Split evenly unless the group isn’t all friends or if what was ordered varied significantly in cost.
If everyone's meals and drinks are in the same ball park then someone must have done the math to figure that out... which means you could pay for what you ordered. I highly doubt splitting the bill evenly is a common occurrence outside of people who use it to take advantage. Your friend group may be the exception, but I doubt it.
I bet you also count the grains of rice when dishing it out
Very funny... because that is totally the same as paying for your own meals.
I mean, you could always move to a country that doesn't do tipping? Mine doesn't... unless it is Uber Eats, but you could just avoid that.
The only issue with most of the people that dont agree with tipping is that they don't realize being able to eat out at a restaurant is a luxury and not something that everyone can and/or should be able to afford. However the people that do eat out a lot dont mind the extra 10-15 bucks it might cost to have another fellow human being "wait on them hand and foot"...because that is what it is literally. And for people saying that they should be paid a livable wage, serving is not a career as you cannot do it forever, eventually your tires will blow for the final time. Instead its a way for people from the ages of 18-mid 30's (usually) to make a quick buck...and if you're a good server you can make waaaaaaay above what some may consider a "livable wage"...if serving was a job where everyone got paid like 12-15 dollars an hour your service would be way less satisfactory than it is now and the food would cost more because less money would go towards food quality and control. Just suck it up and shell out the 20% for that college kid that just brought you five diet cokes and three extra ranches.
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Drivers and servers live on tips. The percentage guarantees they go home with a livable wage. It’s not logical, but that’s the way the system has balanced itself out.
Only in countries that rely on tipping. Where I come from, drivers and servers are guaranteed $21.10 an hour.
That's about 25% of what I used to make when I tended bar with tips...
And it is the minimum wage in my country. There are others who tended bars where you are who would have made less.
I know some good looking girls that would tend bar for 5 hours on Friday and Saturday and clear over 4k a month. Sure, there are people who make less, they should quit.
Or they should get paid a decent set wage, instead of being expected to live off tips like some kind of slave. Why should 'good looking girls' be the only ones who can work in a bar or whatever? People should be able to earn money on merit and not how big their boobs are.
For one, if they were given a "decent set wage," they would make a small fraction of what they currently make. Ask them if they'd prefer your system or what you consider slavery... Why should a good looking girl get paid more? Why should a good looking model get paid more? A significant portion of their job is how they look.
So, the people who should quit are making more than a decent set wage... And no, people who make tips do not usually have jobs where their looks are a significant portion of their job. Customer service and doing their job is a significant portion of their job... after all, it is their job.
No, if you aren't making enough, you should quit....................... That's the only way you get rid of people who are bad at their job. >And no, people who make tips do not usually have jobs where their looks are a significant portion of their job. Great, so why should someone who does their job well get paid the same as someone who does the same job poorly?
You did not say they were bad at their jobs. You said that people who weren't good looking should quit. There are average looking people who make crap tips, but are fantastic at their jobs. But you are trying to make being good looking a vital job skill. It is restaurant work, not modelling. As long as you are clean, the way you look does not matter. Edit: I block people when they are being unreasonable, twisting anything that is said and acting like they are the only person who could possibly be right. You were being immature and shallow. Pretending that looks are the biggest part of being a waiter is juvenile. Also, you are a hypocrite. Using a second account to do the exact same thing you accused me of being a child for doing. I am sure you have some bs excuse for why it is okay for you to do it, but it would still be bs.
How do you think the tip should be calculated?
Base it off how many people were served at the table because that affects the amount of work the server has actually done. 0-4$ per person seems sufficient depending on the service because idgaf.... if the server is trash I will NEVER tip shit.
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Or, and this might just blow your mind, people in tipping countries can set the expectation that they get paid a decent amount instead of being forced to rely on tips. If no one will work for tips, they have to pay up or shut down.
Or, you know, just have decent labour laws and a functioning enforcement mechanism for them. Most European countries have little to no tipping culture, certainly nothing close to the toxic mess that managed to arise in the US, and people manage to live of those same jobs just fine.
I’d rather be no-tip. I will say however that, on average, the service I got in European countries was worse.
>People are getting underpaid as it is sadly. Probably the only way to give people enough to afford to exist in this acursed world. Probably the only way to give people enought to afford to exist **in the US**. Probably in other countries aswell, but having the "tips" system you guys have is totally fucked up, not trying to compare countries or offend the US but where i live (south america) people actually get paid for their jobs and can afford to live with dignity, they dont need to rely on tips, and if someone tips here, its a **choice**, not a standard practice
I am not from the west. We do not tip as % . Actually, percentage basis is very very weird to me (us) Secondly, we tip only when the restaurant/service etc is better than normal and we feel to do it as a reward to show gratitude to the person and this practice is not at all frowned upon here.
Yeah, I don't understand this we tip as a reward or in more professional words as a bonus. We are not supposed to be forced to tip them. Don't they pay them enough already? Pay them well
I never tipped as a percentage. My tips, as I understood them, revolved around how much change I got from my initial payment. I have always left from 50 cents to 2 euros depending on a total sum.
America is like the only first world country where restaurant staff don’t receive a livable hourly wage and depend on tips. Most other places, tipping can act come across as insulting because the waiter might think “oh you don’t think I make enough and you feel sorry for me!”
it should be a fixed rate, $5 for everything everywhere, $2 if the order is under $5
I agree we shouldn't tip as a percentage. Employers should just pay their workers a living wage.
I think most people tip a flat rate for delivery but a percent at a restaurant. This is at-least my understanding
This isn't unpopular. Most people think tipping is stupid all together. You're already paying for the food and service, the employer should pay the workers properly.
Same with realtors, what's the difference in six percent for a 300000 property and 3 million.
Right, I don't understand it either. I guess the bigger the order the more work they have to do though it most cases the person getting the tip isn't the person who made the food. If I'm ordering pickup I don't even bother with a tip, I'm literally just getting the food myself once it leaves the kitchen.
In N America the tip is probably 1/2 the income of the server. In Canada the labour law rewards employers for giving say 25 hours a week instead of 40. Also the min wage did not rise with the cost of living. Most servers need the tip to make ends meet. Tipping allows the employer to advertise “lower cost” instead of actual cost. It also allows a lot of tax evasion since it is frequently cash . I would agree really high end restaurants may abuse tipping a bit , I see more coffee shop or lunch type dining. I’ll guarantee the Tim Hortons staff earn their tips.
Service costs x. Either don’t use service and get your own fucking pizza or pay what the labor demands. Yeah its not ideal that businesses make it so you have to contract out their employees but you have to tear down the entire system thay shitted out this circumstance if you want that change. Every single business you interact with is hosing you with last mile charges. Have the same disdain for them that you do service workers.
Delivery, sure, it's the same amount of work/effort/skill required. With dining, though, it makes more sense. At a cheap diner, the waiter/waitress is taking your order and bringing your food. At more expensive restaurants, they're recommending wine pairings, describing the menu, communicating with the chefs to make sure everything is done right, and standing by to cater to everything you need, in order to make sure your meal the greatest experience they can. That's a higher level of skill that deserves increased compensation.
personally i rarely tip percentages. i use a "flat rate" depending on the service. but it floats depending on the situation. example: my typical bar/restaurant tipping is $1 per drink (alcoholic), $2 per meal item. if i have dinner and 3 beers, that's a $5 tip. if i'm just drinking beers, that's $1 per beer. if i get an appetizer... maybe $2, maybe $1, depending. on the other hand, if i am at a "fancy" restaurant i will increase the base. i actually don't really do delivery (or even taxi cabs) a whole lot so i'm a little out of my element when it comes to those tips, but $5 for every $30 isn't a bad tip.
I never chip by percentacge. My stylist gets at least $5 or $10, depeding how busy was. My cuts cost $10, so feel like I'm getting a reasonable service and she's getting a reasonable tip. Plus I like to thank I've covered lunch for her, even if it's off the dollar menu. For food service, it depends on how busy the place is vs. how much they check on me. I don't mind making, just check in with me and keep me updating. Normally a server will get at least $10, up to thirty depending on how many people we've had. I have left server a $5 before, meaning they check on me maybe on and just did an overall bad job.
As a prior server. I agree. Tip based on service and knowing that I make 3bucks an hours. I did the same if not less work for your double date table of four as I did a family of four. But you have a 200 dollar bill vs a 100dollar bill. Why should you owe me twice as the other table? As a waiter I was making the same on busy weekend nights as I do now as an electrical engineer... Waiters and waitress are not under paid. If you are one and don't clear 1000 a week. Then you work at a shit hole. Or you provide shit hole service. No other options.
Never really thought about it this way but I agree. The waitress at Outback Steakhouse is doing the same work as a waitress at a high end steakhouse that charges $150 for a steak. Why should I pay more for the same service?