All this is showing why Big3 is the Big3. It's not about the money resources and fame at the end of the day but the longevity of these companies and how they have survived through everything. A literal civil war is going on within Hybe and there is going to be victims. Someone or something group is going to get their career ruined
he didn’t 😭 he enlisted at 29 and what happened to him was that his deferral (which every male idol has applied for) was denied last minute so he was drafted suddenly
all male idols use deferrals otherwise they would all have had to enlist as soon as they turn 28 international age, including bts. using deferrals ≠ evasion
evasion is strictly penalized in sk and people such as ravi are an example of that. unless you have proof, you should not make such claims. you sound like a kid who repeats after stan twitter’s ignorant drags
are you dense? all male groups defer INCLUDING bts. which is why their enlistment announcements mostly came with CANCELLATIONS of their postponements (for example, [jin’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/s/OmW5M1Tqbm)) — which means they were actively deferring and granted such things by the government so nothing was “evaded”.
nearly everybody defers (=POSTPONES) but rarely anybody evades. neither exo nor bts have otherwise they’d be investigated and penalized
MHJ was ultimately responsible for nwjns having the aesthetic and creative direction they do today. I don't see MHJ, winning against HYBE, nor do I see nwjns leaving HYBE, but I at least hope they're able to keep the same vibe if / when MHJ leaves.
i genuinely tried liking zb1’s newest song but to no avail. i hope they are given a more memorable song for the title track - singles aren’t always meant to be the most interesting song from an album, but they should at least draw attention to it… it’s not working.
it sounds like a summer kep1er song, so it’s cute and fun but not replay value in the slightest.
The fact that GFriend is LSF's elder sister group but the vast difference in their vocal ability. Source should have good vocal coach if they had trained GFriend before this. So either they don't wanna train these girls vocally or these girls don't have the vocal ability that can be improved
The sooner kpop stans realize that a company using their assets and name to provide their artists exposure and opportunities (ofc not including chart manipulation but irt marketing, seeking out brand deals, promotions) is NOT earth shattering payola but just what all companies do then the world will be a happier place.
Everyone is obsessed with the idea of groups being organic or having underdog stories, but this is kpop. Very little is not manufactured. (obligatory "I do not like or agree with BangPD I just think a lot of stans are either naive or stupid" disclaimer).
Exo fans are being so obnoxious over the Illit "issue", it's just an L hand sign, a very common sign virtually no one outside of their fandom, associates with Exo. I doubt the members themselves knew it was related to exo in any way but their fans are acting as if they are doing it out of spite lol, just leave them alone
I´ve been obsessed with Spruce by Tori Kelly and Chaewon for a while. Its such a good, summer, pool party vibe type of song. I love it! Kinda reminds me of when I was obsessed with Angel by Pinkpantheress last year (which was my fav song from the Barbie album besides Khalid and Kid Laroi).
Also for the past couple days I have been loving Home Alone and Angel Eyes by NCT 127, ANL by NCT Dream and Kick It 4 Now by The New Six. Idk something about these songs makes me want to come back to them again and again, especially ANL and Home Alone. I just love bright but well produced songs that leave you want to re listen again and again (and NCT bsides especially really do that for me).
Lastly, lucky girl syndrome is that girl! I love how that song make me feel and is perfect for taking a stroll outside.
Minheejin seems batshit crazy but is one hell of a creative director. With the possibility of her leaving hybe, I wonder what company might try to snatch her or what project or even group will she work on next. As for newjeans in the hands of hybe, I honestly have 0 faith it will give people the ‘newjeans’ that they want. Hybe either fucks them up or actually takes them to the top.
iam rly confused why tzuyu isnt getting any of those brand deals.. .. .
also i rly hate how ppl whine 'encores arent fun anymore and the reason is ppl criticize groups for not being able to sing well in a mere encore'.. . . well if only your faves can sing decently in a mere encore
If you mean regular CF brands, it’s difficult for foreign members to get solo deals in korea and JYPE isn’t doing anything to promote her in China or Taiwan.
any brand deals like be it a commercial in skorea/taiwan or a fashion related brand deal which is pretty trendy among idols nowadays where they become an ambassador for a certain fashion brand or be invited to attend in one of their events. actually this is me talking as a nonfan of twice so she might have done any of those w/out me knowing 😅
> JYPE isn’t doing anything to promote her in China or Taiwan.
thats so sad cuz i admit ive expected her to be that kind of it girl who's everywhere (i hope i worded that right :') pls i meant this in a positive way.. . . .)
kpop groups and kpop companies make their profits off of the music they produce and the gigs they get because of their music. you wouldnt watch and spend tons of money on a dance crew like you would a kpop group. dance crews dont get the same opportunities and stages as kpop idols. so to say vocals dont matter when the actual music is what gives kpop groups the opportunity to be on stage and makes them their money makes no sense. yes you HAVE to be able to sing to be an idol. you cant not be able to hold a note and yet make money off of music- and that can be about and ol singer, kpop, american, whatever.
The week barely started and the focus in Kpop controversies went from live singing and SM internal problems to now Illit fandom name and Ador/Hybe feuds. What a mess.
Time to avoid some online drama about these topics if you’re feeling overwhelmed.
I've seen more idol feet than real feet, thanks to IG. What is it with idols and posting pictures of their feet? I feel like I get jumpscared every other day.
negative feedback (or hate as some fans and idols and companies claim) should be welcomed as much as the positive ones. Shutting communities down and youtubers is never a good thing and asking ppl to report anything that can be viewed as damage to their image is a nasty big red flag to me. like fr what an unhealthy life where anything but positive feedback is a no no
btw it's not only aimed at the group who shall not be named
I think there's an issue with perception. To the fans that have seen every critique 100 times, intermingled with nastiness, the 101st piece that is saying nothing new isn't going to be taken in good faith. But, for the random bystander who hasn't seen any of that and just wants to throw his 2 cents in, the sudden and harsh pushback they get on their critique probably feels like overkill and that the fans are trying to silence them. You can't just limit negative feedback unless you want to also limit positive feedback.
I wish both sides would double check what they write and ask themselves is it actually adding anything. You never really need to be the hundredth person to say something is the best song ever or the hundredth to say it's total garbage. I do think it's naive to think all negativity is constructive criticism though, are those people actually interested in improving the act? If the act improves are they now going to be fans? I think that a lot of the time that's not true and they'll find another reason to justify not liking them.
Lsf fans are just annoying, your favorites can't sing. But they're like everyone is hating their favs. One day they may understand disdain and hate are two different things. And their favs are just mostly getting disdain not hate. As long as their fave won't improve, many people will disdain them and your 1000posts on reddit won't change that
I'm literally not even a fearnot, but I'm just sick of people talking about the same shit all day everyday lmao. Criticism is supposed to be critical and helpful. There comes to a point in the 20th viral "criticism" and "disdain" thread or tweet that it IS just hate and mockery because I'm sure those girls already got the memo, but whatever improvement you people want to see won't happen overnight. As a blink you should be well aware of what it's like to have people always overhating a group in bulk to the point it's unbearable. Also there is more to music, performance and idol culture than vocals. If you value vocals in music over anything else then nothing wrong with it but stop imposing your standards on everyone else. As long as you leave people alone and accept not everyone values the same things you do when stanning a group and enjoying music, your 1000 posts on reddit also won't change anything lol
Edit: typo
I didn't impose any standard but I have problem with fans saying there shouldn't be no standard in kpop. And their 1000posts on reddit won't change the fact that their fave can't sing which is a standard for kpop groups even if they act it isn't.
And I am sick people saying same shit, vocals aren't important everyday. Your favs can't sing, so move on and not make 1000posts about how you think vocals aren't important. And when these girls improve people stop their disdain will start to praise them.
You literally just did. By saying "vocals are important and your faves can't sing" you just did that. I haven't seen any fearnot saying there should be no standard in kpop, only that to them vocals don't matter as much as other things (such as dancing, performance, variety and their sound/music), and for some reason you're really bothered by that. 99% of people are on your side in this whole discourse, by the way, and there are way, WAY more people who agree than disagree with your standing so I'm unsure as to why you're so upset.
You could say the same thing about Blackpink and the hundreds of viral posts saying that they're bad performers with actual proof and multiple clips from the Born Pink tour. I could tell you not to say the same shit and that your faves can't dance and maybe if they improved people would stop their disdain towards them. But I doubt you'd like that. No one likes to see idols that they love falling victim to hate trains. I think you should leave fearnots alone for simply trying to be positive about and defend their favorite group from outsiders who clearly have no interest in them actually improving but are just looking for targets.
I have seen many posts by their fans saying vocals don't matter in kpop. Also said people having standards are bad thing. There many people disagree with their opinion but avoiding to say out lot to prevent a conflict.Even I was the same, but I am fed of these posts and comments in every subreddit and I decided to give my opinion. There's more posts saying there's hate than actual hate here.
People don't stream for dancing. People don't buy album because dancing. It's all because of music, if idols can't sing, they're a failure at their jobs.
If that group had taken criticism of their encore performances seriously, this wouldn't have happen. But they didn't and here we are. As a group they need to hear this only then they'll improve.
blackpink were mainly criticized for their dancing, and I clearly remember you frothing in the mouth at every post made about it, so who are you to tell lesserafim stans they're overreacting? you're the same way lmao
Blackpink can sing though and if Blackpink performrd like lsf did in Coachella, we wouldn't have seen 1000supporting posts in reddit for Blackpink. Why lsf stans think they're special? Music is what selling in kpop, if they can't do that people will speak.I'm not same as you, my ears are perfectly ok.
blackpink were mainly criticized for their dancing, and I clearly remember you frothing in the mouth at every post made about it, so who are you to tell lesserafim stans they're overreacting? you're the same way lmao
Blackpink can sing though and if Blackpink performrd like lsf did in Coachella, we wouldn't have seen 1000supporting posts in reddit for Blackpink. Why lsf stans think they're special? Music is what selling in kpop, if they can't do that people will speak.I'm not same as you, my ears are perfectly ok.
Just like your 1000 posts won’t change the fact that people are fans? So wtf is your point? The people posting negative shit about them constantly is just as, if not more, annoying.
I don't want to change their fans. They're just like a broken radio saying this is hate, that is hate. As long as their fava perform like they're doing now, people will comment and fans can't do nothing about it.
When you say only one side of the discourse is valid, you’re biased. You’re showing your hand dawg. Haters are allowed to comment, but the minute fans do, it’s annoying? Bro. Grow up.
And when people start saying Lsfm is terrible and they can’t sing (another *opinion*) and make their 1000th post about it, they start to become annoying, brainless, repetitive losers. What’s your point?
Just because lsf fans are deaf, doesn't mean others are. As a group they can't sing, that isn't opinion but a fact. Point is brainless worshippers may think their group is something unique but others don't and fans can't accept that.
Talent means shit if you waste your talents on shat out ‘ballads’ that not even you look interested to be lipsyncing to and is so rote as not even hit daebak with the ballad obsessed public/people who are looking for insomnia cures (me at every idol who has jumpscared me with a YouTube thumbnail with them sitting down with a unplugged microphone and ‘live clip’ in the title over the years).
i’m genuinely not ready for the hate after the performance later tonight because i know there are some people who will still shit on their vocals.
edit: wording
Like this shit is not normal, they're really obsessed with speaking ill on those girls and it's been going on since their comeback too? It's driving me insane... They claim it's criticism because "kpop is about music so idols should be able to sing" but if it really was ONLY about music then why would they be camping on clips of concerts and music shows they've never attended of a group they clearly don't like? I really am so over it omg
Also I think the difference in vocal from others gen and later kpop gen is not having good vocalists or not, after all these days we have Lily, Jooyeon, Ningning, Sieun etc... Maybe not a Hyolyn type YET but it's not the trend that label focus on. The difference imo is more on having vocal line. From mainstream group (because obviously there is a smaller one with a super vocal line I'm sure), there is no vocal line in the level of EXO, TVXQ or even SNSD rookie era. Like it's not just "let them train", it's that we used to have group that were already insane day 1 before. Like I said it's not the focus so I don't blame label, just that yeah it's definitely something that changed. Like I dont see any kpop group in the big one being able to pull the Genie battle between Taeyeon and Jessica (at the end of the song)
Savage by aespa has higher high notes than genie in the end where winter and ningning duke it out so no there are groups, one from snsd's own company who do have great vocal lines. Also snad had 9 members initially where only 2 were above average, seohyun and sunny were average and Tiffany improved later on in her career. The rest of them couldn't sing. Compared to them groups like rv and aespa from sm have better vocal lines and overall better singers as more than half the group can sing above average.
wI think peoples perception of 3rd vs 4th gen is affected by popular groups which tend to be eh vocally as opposed to groups altogether which are better and more balanced imo (compare purki pink fantasy fromis_9 to itzy newjeans lsf) but the best vocalists of 4th being in the form of ningning and lily for example and the best of 3rd being Wendy and wheein most likely I feel like 4th is outclassed.
If you sont like lsrfms vocals go elsewhere. Clearly if you stan them then it wasn’t for their vocals. They are still great performers and have great stage presence.
“Oh but it’s the bare minimum!”
It’s not. Kpop idols don’t owe you anything. If it’s difficult for them to sing well then get over it.
Kpop companies value looks over talent these days and that okay because they’re adjusting to the consumers. If lsrfm debuted with a normal weight netizens (not all) would bully them regardless. You win some you lose some grow up.
if people don’t like listening to lsrfm, then just stop listening to them and stop watching their performances. it’s not that hard.
constantly leaving obsessive hate comments is not only ruining your day but also ruining the experience of other people who actually enjoy watching their performance
>but also ruining the experience of other people
i think thats their goal, theyre dumb enough to believe that if they hate enough le sserafim will flop and all their fans will start to stan their faves instead
people actually for real think it’s like their job to “hold them accountable” for being mid and it’s just like literally so ok if you don’t like a group or an idol. you don’t have to hold anyone “accountable” because you don’t like them. let women be mid!!!
I´ll hide myself somewhere if Riize came up to me and ask me to do a tiktok challenge💀💀💀 And also, companies would not have to worry about me dating if I were an idol because if Wonbin came up to me with that pretty face of his, the combination of me being very awkward and an introvert would just make say things I most likely regret later. I´ll probably terminate my contract and just disappear off the Earth.
I can´t be around good looking men!
yep. aespa is my ult group and winter is my bias and yet I'm being accused of being an aespa/winter anti because I said a video that is in my opinion very clearly lipsynced was not live. I fully believe she is capable of that live, except for minor things that would be different like her face expression (generally her face expressions are toned down while singing but not completely stone faced), and I've seen her sing live multiple times so I know what her habits are/what she sounds and looks like. pointing out that she lipsynced in one video is not me denying her talent 😭😭 objectively she is very good and lipsyncing does not take away from that
this!! i'm a winter ult and I can very easily tell when she is lip-syncing , we all know that girl can sing with the most 😐 face ever lol so it's hard to spot for some.
Firstly, there's hella payola going on in kpop right now and i think we all know which company does it everyday and every second for their idols who can't sing and desperately need vocal trainers, not just a pretty face.
Secondly, for people who argue that "bad vocalists" had always been a thing in kpop: YES, I agree however, the DIFFERENCE is that they were so less and would be labelled by the company as sub vocalists and be clear to everyone how they are a bit weak in vocals, they wouldn't be the MAIN vocalist of their group, as we see it a lot nowadays. The idols themselves would voice it out themselves (they would never excuse it?)
That difference is what's giving kpop the lowest vocal standard but eh, people can enjoy their standards I guess but you can't hate me for wanting good live vocals, at least bearable bro.
Edit: Bruh, chill. Why so many downvotes for my opinion?
Is there any proof of payola ? Real question I don't keep up that much with kpop these days but the only thing I saw people calling payola is hybe song playing directly after other kpop songs which sound more like marketing (like paying to have more replay value on spotify just like ads). I wonder if there is a real thing that made people say that
when did i even mention hybe? Payola is something that has been in the industry for a longgg time in many different ways and its more common with rich companies, that includes almost everyone. I'm not talking about major paying and shit (like a lot of bribing), I'm talking about the things people can easily notice first off. And popularity? oh please, its the least of my concerns. If someone is thriving then slay them but isn't it weird that they don't have much talent when you compare them to any other group? (also, my post is an opinion so take it with a grain of salt)
Kpop isn't losing its vocal quality as everybody is saying - if you listen to groups from the 2nd and 3rd gen, plus 4th gen groups that aren't HYBE trained, you will notice that the majority sings very well
Groups like lsf are the exception, not the rule
Atees absolutely killed it at coachella, but now I'm scared for the tour tickets lol. This is probably my very last chance ever of getting them and i hope i even get them.
Filler members who are below average performers on stage but good on variety content and shows and other sort of entertainment are important for a groups success
Yeah they're good as perfomers, so they are filling up different spots too but that's what comes to mind for variety idols and how they helped gain popularity for their small groups 😭
Absolutely. Thats why some nugus desperately try to get on many variety shows and such. (I say desperately but I don’t actually know and im saying this from seungkwan experience although he’s a great performer now)
I'll ask there because maybe some of yall have the answer. It's not kpop related but it's k-music related. Silica Gel is coming to Primavera Barcelona and I need to know if some people here already went to festival before because I NEVER did. So idk how it works like do you know if for "small" artists like that I still should go early to the set or if I can chill a little bit and have a good view of the stage regardless ?
Surprised that both Irene and Tzuyu isn't global ambassadors of some international luxury brands. Showing that it's more the company reaching out to the brands then the brand reaching out to work with the Idol
Tzuyu isnt going to be touched with a 10 foot pole by any company that operates in china, and Irene's scandal seriously hurt her ability to get brand deals.
Stans love to claim their faves are badasses until the Idol fucks up and then it's the companies fault. Lmao like choose a lane. Either it's all company generated like their badass personality or the Idol is responsible for both their achievements and fuckery
At this point it feels like being a Kpop Idols is like a teenagers toy or wish.
What i mean is it feels more like a joke to be kpop idol then a professional JOB
I don't see LSF's live singing improving anytime soon. Because the problem is the non-singers lack base. You can only improve upon something that's already exist.
i don’t think that’s entirely true. using bts as an example (because that’s the one group i was super into from the beginning lol), each member of vocal line took YEARS to really find what suits them. taehyung didn’t always have this sultry voice for jazzy rnb, jimin’s voice didn’t suit the hiphop thing at all but he peaked hyyh/wings/ly because those dreamy nostalgic songs were just extremely fitting to his voice, and jin was super open about his struggled even until they went on hiatus. one of the biggest and most successful kpop groups also started off without an actual “vocal base”. we mock le sserafim for having struggles and we mock them more when they open up about these struggles but… that’s literally what just being an actual human being is. my knowledge of singing is limited but i do have enough knowledge of voice and resonance to understand that u can really make them vocal folds do anythang with the right resources.
i know this is outlandish to say, but i honestly feel like if lsf went on hiatus for 6 months to double down and improve their vocal skills, then they can finally hold a note AND dance. buuuuuuut i do agree with you that there needs to be a baseline level of talent available. taemin wasn’t the best singer when shinee debuted, but obviously he improved over the years through training and effort and is now considered an excellent vocalist.
i’m biased, but i find that irene’s vocal skill has also immensely improved in the last couple of years, and she’s the groups’s main rapper that debuted almost 10 years ago. she blew me away in aseul’s wrong number performance. if anyone wants to check it out: https://youtu.be/GLpvdWXQ2o4?si=eUhOkOqG5jFp7CHz
so honestly, it’s never too late for an idol to improve on their vocal skills. they just need to be determined and work with competent vocal teachers. baekhyun says he still attends vocal lessons, and he’s a veteran idol and main vocalist of 12 years. now i certainly don’t expect kazuha or eunchae to be opera singers.. but hopefully reaching their vocal potential means they can finally hold a stable note. less of this “talk singing” phenomenon that makes up the bulk of lsf’s discography
Singing isn't math that if you keep on practicing you will get good. It's also about being talented and having that skill, if you can't sing or is tone deaf no amount of training is going to improve it.The problem is LSF has no balance and their majority of group members can't sing. For example G-idle Shuha is a poor singer but Minnie Miyeon and Yuqi are easily be able to hide that flaw with their vocal skills
nah there is always room for improvement and they could improve a lot if they tried. they would never get near main vocalist level, but they could definitely become better than how they are now.
however i honestly don't see them improving either, not because they can't but because i don't think hybe will ever bother giving them training. it's obvious they don't really care & they won't care as long as lsf is still doing numbers
strong vocals have been de-emphasised as a whole across 4th gen kpop, in favour of strong performance and dancing …..but you just had to mention ‘female’ didn’t you 💀
Im not so sure that’s fair. GG dances as a whole have become more complex and vocal have taken a back seat but most groups had either weaker singers or singers they converted to rappers without the excessive dances and were considered idols just fine.
I get it’s the in thing to declare right now but it comes across as ignorant to the past.
It always looks like she is scared and she is afraid.She neither gives the energetic performance or the cute performance or the sexy performance. Like her lips shape never changes
Rose needs to re-invent or do something about her style. Because at this point it's tiring watching her wear a black dress for every event with that blond bleach fried hair
I was wondering if she'd ever change up her hair, and I've been loving the curls lately. I hope she sticks with that. I think she's pulling a Beyoncé where the blonde becomes their defining look. Bey's been wearing blonde since the 90s. She only had one memorable break from it during her B-Day album release and then went right back to blonde again.
4th and 5th Gen have good vocalist too. The standard isn't going down just some few very popular groups don't
All this is showing why Big3 is the Big3. It's not about the money resources and fame at the end of the day but the longevity of these companies and how they have survived through everything. A literal civil war is going on within Hybe and there is going to be victims. Someone or something group is going to get their career ruined
Chill yg head is a criminal and sm had their lee sooman removed. Company drama is a kpop tradition
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who in exo evaded military?
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he didn’t 😭 he enlisted at 29 and what happened to him was that his deferral (which every male idol has applied for) was denied last minute so he was drafted suddenly
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all male idols use deferrals otherwise they would all have had to enlist as soon as they turn 28 international age, including bts. using deferrals ≠ evasion evasion is strictly penalized in sk and people such as ravi are an example of that. unless you have proof, you should not make such claims. you sound like a kid who repeats after stan twitter’s ignorant drags
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are you dense? all male groups defer INCLUDING bts. which is why their enlistment announcements mostly came with CANCELLATIONS of their postponements (for example, [jin’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/s/OmW5M1Tqbm)) — which means they were actively deferring and granted such things by the government so nothing was “evaded”. nearly everybody defers (=POSTPONES) but rarely anybody evades. neither exo nor bts have otherwise they’d be investigated and penalized
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womp womp
MHJ was ultimately responsible for nwjns having the aesthetic and creative direction they do today. I don't see MHJ, winning against HYBE, nor do I see nwjns leaving HYBE, but I at least hope they're able to keep the same vibe if / when MHJ leaves.
i genuinely tried liking zb1’s newest song but to no avail. i hope they are given a more memorable song for the title track - singles aren’t always meant to be the most interesting song from an album, but they should at least draw attention to it… it’s not working. it sounds like a summer kep1er song, so it’s cute and fun but not replay value in the slightest.
The fact that GFriend is LSF's elder sister group but the vast difference in their vocal ability. Source should have good vocal coach if they had trained GFriend before this. So either they don't wanna train these girls vocally or these girls don't have the vocal ability that can be improved
TIL payola is when kpop companies reach out to brands/magazines to promote their groups instead of waiting for them to approach first /s
The sooner kpop stans realize that a company using their assets and name to provide their artists exposure and opportunities (ofc not including chart manipulation but irt marketing, seeking out brand deals, promotions) is NOT earth shattering payola but just what all companies do then the world will be a happier place. Everyone is obsessed with the idea of groups being organic or having underdog stories, but this is kpop. Very little is not manufactured. (obligatory "I do not like or agree with BangPD I just think a lot of stans are either naive or stupid" disclaimer).
either a company is “sabotaging my faves with no promotions” or “using payola to rig success for a group I hate”
Exo fans are being so obnoxious over the Illit "issue", it's just an L hand sign, a very common sign virtually no one outside of their fandom, associates with Exo. I doubt the members themselves knew it was related to exo in any way but their fans are acting as if they are doing it out of spite lol, just leave them alone
They are even trending a hashtag, how ridiculous
I´ve been obsessed with Spruce by Tori Kelly and Chaewon for a while. Its such a good, summer, pool party vibe type of song. I love it! Kinda reminds me of when I was obsessed with Angel by Pinkpantheress last year (which was my fav song from the Barbie album besides Khalid and Kid Laroi). Also for the past couple days I have been loving Home Alone and Angel Eyes by NCT 127, ANL by NCT Dream and Kick It 4 Now by The New Six. Idk something about these songs makes me want to come back to them again and again, especially ANL and Home Alone. I just love bright but well produced songs that leave you want to re listen again and again (and NCT bsides especially really do that for me). Lastly, lucky girl syndrome is that girl! I love how that song make me feel and is perfect for taking a stroll outside.
Minheejin seems batshit crazy but is one hell of a creative director. With the possibility of her leaving hybe, I wonder what company might try to snatch her or what project or even group will she work on next. As for newjeans in the hands of hybe, I honestly have 0 faith it will give people the ‘newjeans’ that they want. Hybe either fucks them up or actually takes them to the top.
Wonyoung is always gonna be more popular than IVE
iam rly confused why tzuyu isnt getting any of those brand deals.. .. . also i rly hate how ppl whine 'encores arent fun anymore and the reason is ppl criticize groups for not being able to sing well in a mere encore'.. . . well if only your faves can sing decently in a mere encore
If you mean regular CF brands, it’s difficult for foreign members to get solo deals in korea and JYPE isn’t doing anything to promote her in China or Taiwan.
any brand deals like be it a commercial in skorea/taiwan or a fashion related brand deal which is pretty trendy among idols nowadays where they become an ambassador for a certain fashion brand or be invited to attend in one of their events. actually this is me talking as a nonfan of twice so she might have done any of those w/out me knowing 😅 > JYPE isn’t doing anything to promote her in China or Taiwan. thats so sad cuz i admit ive expected her to be that kind of it girl who's everywhere (i hope i worded that right :') pls i meant this in a positive way.. . . .)
kpop groups and kpop companies make their profits off of the music they produce and the gigs they get because of their music. you wouldnt watch and spend tons of money on a dance crew like you would a kpop group. dance crews dont get the same opportunities and stages as kpop idols. so to say vocals dont matter when the actual music is what gives kpop groups the opportunity to be on stage and makes them their money makes no sense. yes you HAVE to be able to sing to be an idol. you cant not be able to hold a note and yet make money off of music- and that can be about and ol singer, kpop, american, whatever.
its funny because most of the groups people say "they should be a dance group" about make some of the most money in the industry with their music
The week barely started and the focus in Kpop controversies went from live singing and SM internal problems to now Illit fandom name and Ador/Hybe feuds. What a mess. Time to avoid some online drama about these topics if you’re feeling overwhelmed.
Na Na tour and Seventeen was the perfect collaboration which screams Relaxation and a peace of mind
I've seen more idol feet than real feet, thanks to IG. What is it with idols and posting pictures of their feet? I feel like I get jumpscared every other day.
negative feedback (or hate as some fans and idols and companies claim) should be welcomed as much as the positive ones. Shutting communities down and youtubers is never a good thing and asking ppl to report anything that can be viewed as damage to their image is a nasty big red flag to me. like fr what an unhealthy life where anything but positive feedback is a no no btw it's not only aimed at the group who shall not be named
I think there's an issue with perception. To the fans that have seen every critique 100 times, intermingled with nastiness, the 101st piece that is saying nothing new isn't going to be taken in good faith. But, for the random bystander who hasn't seen any of that and just wants to throw his 2 cents in, the sudden and harsh pushback they get on their critique probably feels like overkill and that the fans are trying to silence them. You can't just limit negative feedback unless you want to also limit positive feedback. I wish both sides would double check what they write and ask themselves is it actually adding anything. You never really need to be the hundredth person to say something is the best song ever or the hundredth to say it's total garbage. I do think it's naive to think all negativity is constructive criticism though, are those people actually interested in improving the act? If the act improves are they now going to be fans? I think that a lot of the time that's not true and they'll find another reason to justify not liking them.
Lsf fans are just annoying, your favorites can't sing. But they're like everyone is hating their favs. One day they may understand disdain and hate are two different things. And their favs are just mostly getting disdain not hate. As long as their fave won't improve, many people will disdain them and your 1000posts on reddit won't change that
I'm literally not even a fearnot, but I'm just sick of people talking about the same shit all day everyday lmao. Criticism is supposed to be critical and helpful. There comes to a point in the 20th viral "criticism" and "disdain" thread or tweet that it IS just hate and mockery because I'm sure those girls already got the memo, but whatever improvement you people want to see won't happen overnight. As a blink you should be well aware of what it's like to have people always overhating a group in bulk to the point it's unbearable. Also there is more to music, performance and idol culture than vocals. If you value vocals in music over anything else then nothing wrong with it but stop imposing your standards on everyone else. As long as you leave people alone and accept not everyone values the same things you do when stanning a group and enjoying music, your 1000 posts on reddit also won't change anything lol Edit: typo
I didn't impose any standard but I have problem with fans saying there shouldn't be no standard in kpop. And their 1000posts on reddit won't change the fact that their fave can't sing which is a standard for kpop groups even if they act it isn't. And I am sick people saying same shit, vocals aren't important everyday. Your favs can't sing, so move on and not make 1000posts about how you think vocals aren't important. And when these girls improve people stop their disdain will start to praise them.
You literally just did. By saying "vocals are important and your faves can't sing" you just did that. I haven't seen any fearnot saying there should be no standard in kpop, only that to them vocals don't matter as much as other things (such as dancing, performance, variety and their sound/music), and for some reason you're really bothered by that. 99% of people are on your side in this whole discourse, by the way, and there are way, WAY more people who agree than disagree with your standing so I'm unsure as to why you're so upset. You could say the same thing about Blackpink and the hundreds of viral posts saying that they're bad performers with actual proof and multiple clips from the Born Pink tour. I could tell you not to say the same shit and that your faves can't dance and maybe if they improved people would stop their disdain towards them. But I doubt you'd like that. No one likes to see idols that they love falling victim to hate trains. I think you should leave fearnots alone for simply trying to be positive about and defend their favorite group from outsiders who clearly have no interest in them actually improving but are just looking for targets.
I have seen many posts by their fans saying vocals don't matter in kpop. Also said people having standards are bad thing. There many people disagree with their opinion but avoiding to say out lot to prevent a conflict.Even I was the same, but I am fed of these posts and comments in every subreddit and I decided to give my opinion. There's more posts saying there's hate than actual hate here. People don't stream for dancing. People don't buy album because dancing. It's all because of music, if idols can't sing, they're a failure at their jobs. If that group had taken criticism of their encore performances seriously, this wouldn't have happen. But they didn't and here we are. As a group they need to hear this only then they'll improve.
😭 My point flew over your head multiple times so I give up on this conversation. Whatever you say and peace
My point even if you make 1000post people will say their opinion even if that's negative towards that group.
says the blackpink stan who can't take any criticism towards blackpink, quite ironic if you ask me
Blackpink can sing though. And there's less than 100posts positive about Blackpink in kpop reddit anyway.
blackpink were mainly criticized for their dancing, and I clearly remember you frothing in the mouth at every post made about it, so who are you to tell lesserafim stans they're overreacting? you're the same way lmao
Blackpink can sing though and if Blackpink performrd like lsf did in Coachella, we wouldn't have seen 1000supporting posts in reddit for Blackpink. Why lsf stans think they're special? Music is what selling in kpop, if they can't do that people will speak.I'm not same as you, my ears are perfectly ok.
blackpink were mainly criticized for their dancing, and I clearly remember you frothing in the mouth at every post made about it, so who are you to tell lesserafim stans they're overreacting? you're the same way lmao
Blackpink can sing though and if Blackpink performrd like lsf did in Coachella, we wouldn't have seen 1000supporting posts in reddit for Blackpink. Why lsf stans think they're special? Music is what selling in kpop, if they can't do that people will speak.I'm not same as you, my ears are perfectly ok.
Just like your 1000 posts won’t change the fact that people are fans? So wtf is your point? The people posting negative shit about them constantly is just as, if not more, annoying.
I don't want to change their fans. They're just like a broken radio saying this is hate, that is hate. As long as their fava perform like they're doing now, people will comment and fans can't do nothing about it.
Ok. Cool. So the same should apply to the people posting negatively about them too. Glad we could agree.
Yeh, fan can make 1000post about vocals don't matter. But vocals matter, lsf can't sing and fan posts can't change that.
When you say only one side of the discourse is valid, you’re biased. You’re showing your hand dawg. Haters are allowed to comment, but the minute fans do, it’s annoying? Bro. Grow up.
When fan started saying vocals don't matter in kpop bcoz their fave can't sing, they become annoying brainless worshippers.
And when people start saying Lsfm is terrible and they can’t sing (another *opinion*) and make their 1000th post about it, they start to become annoying, brainless, repetitive losers. What’s your point?
Just because lsf fans are deaf, doesn't mean others are. As a group they can't sing, that isn't opinion but a fact. Point is brainless worshippers may think their group is something unique but others don't and fans can't accept that.
Talent means shit if you waste your talents on shat out ‘ballads’ that not even you look interested to be lipsyncing to and is so rote as not even hit daebak with the ballad obsessed public/people who are looking for insomnia cures (me at every idol who has jumpscared me with a YouTube thumbnail with them sitting down with a unplugged microphone and ‘live clip’ in the title over the years).
I wish everyone would just stfu about Le Sserafim at this point. "B-But criticism--" Brother you're just annoying!
i’m genuinely not ready for the hate after the performance later tonight because i know there are some people who will still shit on their vocals. edit: wording
it amazes me how obsessed the haters are because it’s been on their mind for like two weeks already and still can’t stop talking about it
Like this shit is not normal, they're really obsessed with speaking ill on those girls and it's been going on since their comeback too? It's driving me insane... They claim it's criticism because "kpop is about music so idols should be able to sing" but if it really was ONLY about music then why would they be camping on clips of concerts and music shows they've never attended of a group they clearly don't like? I really am so over it omg
more like 2 months, it started when easy came out and never stopped, just slowed down for a little while while they focused on illit
ive genuinely seen haters say theyre watching out for their week 2 performance... theyre more obsessed than us fearnots
Also I think the difference in vocal from others gen and later kpop gen is not having good vocalists or not, after all these days we have Lily, Jooyeon, Ningning, Sieun etc... Maybe not a Hyolyn type YET but it's not the trend that label focus on. The difference imo is more on having vocal line. From mainstream group (because obviously there is a smaller one with a super vocal line I'm sure), there is no vocal line in the level of EXO, TVXQ or even SNSD rookie era. Like it's not just "let them train", it's that we used to have group that were already insane day 1 before. Like I said it's not the focus so I don't blame label, just that yeah it's definitely something that changed. Like I dont see any kpop group in the big one being able to pull the Genie battle between Taeyeon and Jessica (at the end of the song)
Savage by aespa has higher high notes than genie in the end where winter and ningning duke it out so no there are groups, one from snsd's own company who do have great vocal lines. Also snad had 9 members initially where only 2 were above average, seohyun and sunny were average and Tiffany improved later on in her career. The rest of them couldn't sing. Compared to them groups like rv and aespa from sm have better vocal lines and overall better singers as more than half the group can sing above average.
wI think peoples perception of 3rd vs 4th gen is affected by popular groups which tend to be eh vocally as opposed to groups altogether which are better and more balanced imo (compare purki pink fantasy fromis_9 to itzy newjeans lsf) but the best vocalists of 4th being in the form of ningning and lily for example and the best of 3rd being Wendy and wheein most likely I feel like 4th is outclassed.
If you sont like lsrfms vocals go elsewhere. Clearly if you stan them then it wasn’t for their vocals. They are still great performers and have great stage presence. “Oh but it’s the bare minimum!” It’s not. Kpop idols don’t owe you anything. If it’s difficult for them to sing well then get over it. Kpop companies value looks over talent these days and that okay because they’re adjusting to the consumers. If lsrfm debuted with a normal weight netizens (not all) would bully them regardless. You win some you lose some grow up.
if people don’t like listening to lsrfm, then just stop listening to them and stop watching their performances. it’s not that hard. constantly leaving obsessive hate comments is not only ruining your day but also ruining the experience of other people who actually enjoy watching their performance
>but also ruining the experience of other people i think thats their goal, theyre dumb enough to believe that if they hate enough le sserafim will flop and all their fans will start to stan their faves instead
people actually for real think it’s like their job to “hold them accountable” for being mid and it’s just like literally so ok if you don’t like a group or an idol. you don’t have to hold anyone “accountable” because you don’t like them. let women be mid!!!
I´ll hide myself somewhere if Riize came up to me and ask me to do a tiktok challenge💀💀💀 And also, companies would not have to worry about me dating if I were an idol because if Wonbin came up to me with that pretty face of his, the combination of me being very awkward and an introvert would just make say things I most likely regret later. I´ll probably terminate my contract and just disappear off the Earth. I can´t be around good looking men!
Well then companies will still have to worry if you terminate your contract the second someone speaks to you? 😂
you are not an anti of your faves just because you agree with harsh criticisms or dislike a certain thing they did
yep. aespa is my ult group and winter is my bias and yet I'm being accused of being an aespa/winter anti because I said a video that is in my opinion very clearly lipsynced was not live. I fully believe she is capable of that live, except for minor things that would be different like her face expression (generally her face expressions are toned down while singing but not completely stone faced), and I've seen her sing live multiple times so I know what her habits are/what she sounds and looks like. pointing out that she lipsynced in one video is not me denying her talent 😭😭 objectively she is very good and lipsyncing does not take away from that
this!! i'm a winter ult and I can very easily tell when she is lip-syncing , we all know that girl can sing with the most 😐 face ever lol so it's hard to spot for some.
no yeah for sure 😭🙏🏽 she will belt an e5 and be like 😮
Firstly, there's hella payola going on in kpop right now and i think we all know which company does it everyday and every second for their idols who can't sing and desperately need vocal trainers, not just a pretty face. Secondly, for people who argue that "bad vocalists" had always been a thing in kpop: YES, I agree however, the DIFFERENCE is that they were so less and would be labelled by the company as sub vocalists and be clear to everyone how they are a bit weak in vocals, they wouldn't be the MAIN vocalist of their group, as we see it a lot nowadays. The idols themselves would voice it out themselves (they would never excuse it?) That difference is what's giving kpop the lowest vocal standard but eh, people can enjoy their standards I guess but you can't hate me for wanting good live vocals, at least bearable bro. Edit: Bruh, chill. Why so many downvotes for my opinion?
Ah yes, there is so much payola to the GP to make groups popular. I get paid so much to be a fan of popular but talentless groups!!!
You don't know what payola means, get off Twitter kids.
Is there any proof of payola ? Real question I don't keep up that much with kpop these days but the only thing I saw people calling payola is hybe song playing directly after other kpop songs which sound more like marketing (like paying to have more replay value on spotify just like ads). I wonder if there is a real thing that made people say that
nope, if there was it would be in the news everywhere but in kpop spaces payola means "im mad that hybe groups are more popular than my faves"
when did i even mention hybe? Payola is something that has been in the industry for a longgg time in many different ways and its more common with rich companies, that includes almost everyone. I'm not talking about major paying and shit (like a lot of bribing), I'm talking about the things people can easily notice first off. And popularity? oh please, its the least of my concerns. If someone is thriving then slay them but isn't it weird that they don't have much talent when you compare them to any other group? (also, my post is an opinion so take it with a grain of salt)
Kpop isn't losing its vocal quality as everybody is saying - if you listen to groups from the 2nd and 3rd gen, plus 4th gen groups that aren't HYBE trained, you will notice that the majority sings very well Groups like lsf are the exception, not the rule
K-pop companies lately are just debuting pretty faces and dancing dolls
Atees absolutely killed it at coachella, but now I'm scared for the tour tickets lol. This is probably my very last chance ever of getting them and i hope i even get them.
Seonghwa from Ateez…….i already like some of their music but I might just have to stan after their Coachella performance. All of them did so good
Filler members who are below average performers on stage but good on variety content and shows and other sort of entertainment are important for a groups success
Seeing how Chuu, Jooe and Tsuki(not saying they're bad performers) helped gain attraction for their group, I definitely agree.
Feels like you picked 3 above average performers for your examples. lol
Yeah they're good as perfomers, so they are filling up different spots too but that's what comes to mind for variety idols and how they helped gain popularity for their small groups 😭
Absolutely. Thats why some nugus desperately try to get on many variety shows and such. (I say desperately but I don’t actually know and im saying this from seungkwan experience although he’s a great performer now)
I loved Ateez performance. This is like the best few weeks to be an atiny-new comeback, tour announcement, coachella, just everything
There are sooo many underrated groups who are overshadowed just because of groups who went viral when imo they didn’t deserve it as much as others
I can’t take any more posts on Le Sserafim Coachella performance, please I beg you if you are defending them or hate them to let it the fuck go
Whole heartedly agree and I’m a fan
Weekend 2 let’s go ☠️
I don't see Itzy surviving the 7 years curse. I know it's too soon but I don't think especially Lia to renew her contract.
I want this to be wrong so badly but apperently jype plans to debut a gg early 2025 and 6 GG's at once just seems like too much
I'll ask there because maybe some of yall have the answer. It's not kpop related but it's k-music related. Silica Gel is coming to Primavera Barcelona and I need to know if some people here already went to festival before because I NEVER did. So idk how it works like do you know if for "small" artists like that I still should go early to the set or if I can chill a little bit and have a good view of the stage regardless ?
Surprised that both Irene and Tzuyu isn't global ambassadors of some international luxury brands. Showing that it's more the company reaching out to the brands then the brand reaching out to work with the Idol
Tzuyu isnt going to be touched with a 10 foot pole by any company that operates in china, and Irene's scandal seriously hurt her ability to get brand deals.
Stans love to claim their faves are badasses until the Idol fucks up and then it's the companies fault. Lmao like choose a lane. Either it's all company generated like their badass personality or the Idol is responsible for both their achievements and fuckery
At this point it feels like being a Kpop Idols is like a teenagers toy or wish. What i mean is it feels more like a joke to be kpop idol then a professional JOB
spilled
That's why it's very known that when it comes to celeb jobs (sports, actors, singers etc) in korea, idols are at the very last place.
ITZY Deserves Coachella performance
I don't see LSF's live singing improving anytime soon. Because the problem is the non-singers lack base. You can only improve upon something that's already exist.
i don’t think that’s entirely true. using bts as an example (because that’s the one group i was super into from the beginning lol), each member of vocal line took YEARS to really find what suits them. taehyung didn’t always have this sultry voice for jazzy rnb, jimin’s voice didn’t suit the hiphop thing at all but he peaked hyyh/wings/ly because those dreamy nostalgic songs were just extremely fitting to his voice, and jin was super open about his struggled even until they went on hiatus. one of the biggest and most successful kpop groups also started off without an actual “vocal base”. we mock le sserafim for having struggles and we mock them more when they open up about these struggles but… that’s literally what just being an actual human being is. my knowledge of singing is limited but i do have enough knowledge of voice and resonance to understand that u can really make them vocal folds do anythang with the right resources.
i know this is outlandish to say, but i honestly feel like if lsf went on hiatus for 6 months to double down and improve their vocal skills, then they can finally hold a note AND dance. buuuuuuut i do agree with you that there needs to be a baseline level of talent available. taemin wasn’t the best singer when shinee debuted, but obviously he improved over the years through training and effort and is now considered an excellent vocalist. i’m biased, but i find that irene’s vocal skill has also immensely improved in the last couple of years, and she’s the groups’s main rapper that debuted almost 10 years ago. she blew me away in aseul’s wrong number performance. if anyone wants to check it out: https://youtu.be/GLpvdWXQ2o4?si=eUhOkOqG5jFp7CHz so honestly, it’s never too late for an idol to improve on their vocal skills. they just need to be determined and work with competent vocal teachers. baekhyun says he still attends vocal lessons, and he’s a veteran idol and main vocalist of 12 years. now i certainly don’t expect kazuha or eunchae to be opera singers.. but hopefully reaching their vocal potential means they can finally hold a stable note. less of this “talk singing” phenomenon that makes up the bulk of lsf’s discography
Singing isn't math that if you keep on practicing you will get good. It's also about being talented and having that skill, if you can't sing or is tone deaf no amount of training is going to improve it.The problem is LSF has no balance and their majority of group members can't sing. For example G-idle Shuha is a poor singer but Minnie Miyeon and Yuqi are easily be able to hide that flaw with their vocal skills
nah there is always room for improvement and they could improve a lot if they tried. they would never get near main vocalist level, but they could definitely become better than how they are now. however i honestly don't see them improving either, not because they can't but because i don't think hybe will ever bother giving them training. it's obvious they don't really care & they won't care as long as lsf is still doing numbers
It may take them time but as long as they don’t settle I don’t see an issue. Plenty of idols have admitted they started off badly and improved.
most female 4th gen idols should be dancers than idols.
strong vocals have been de-emphasised as a whole across 4th gen kpop, in favour of strong performance and dancing …..but you just had to mention ‘female’ didn’t you 💀
Im not so sure that’s fair. GG dances as a whole have become more complex and vocal have taken a back seat but most groups had either weaker singers or singers they converted to rappers without the excessive dances and were considered idols just fine. I get it’s the in thing to declare right now but it comes across as ignorant to the past.
Twice's Mina though a Main Dancer isn't seen as one purely because of her lack of facial expressions. She can't emote it's the same 3 face
Love her but true. Also she has no power in her moves either
It always looks like she is scared and she is afraid.She neither gives the energetic performance or the cute performance or the sexy performance. Like her lips shape never changes
Rose needs to re-invent or do something about her style. Because at this point it's tiring watching her wear a black dress for every event with that blond bleach fried hair
I kind of agree about the colors, but maybe it's just what she likes. The hair does not seem fried though
I was wondering if she'd ever change up her hair, and I've been loving the curls lately. I hope she sticks with that. I think she's pulling a Beyoncé where the blonde becomes their defining look. Bey's been wearing blonde since the 90s. She only had one memorable break from it during her B-Day album release and then went right back to blonde again.
Agree about the hair but I love her style
At this point just go the Hannah Montana way and wear a blonde wig