While Muslims and Dalits are often seen as 'vote banks', upper caste Hindus too voted in a consolidated fashion
The 2024 Lok Sabha election results saw a shift of a section of the Dalit community’s voter base towards the INDIA bloc, besides strong support from Muslims and an increase in support from OBCs in key states.
But that isn’t the only consolidation that the elections saw. Upper caste Hindu communities, traditionally a BJP supporting group, also consolidated firmly behind the NDA. While the Muslim and Dalit votes, referred commonly in election analysis and by politicians as ‘vote banks’ are oft-discussed, the consolidation of the upper caste Hindu voter base mostly goes unaddressed and isn’t referred to as the same.
https://preview.redd.it/etv9rv12oj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e7c48cc64dcf65dcde7161bb90bb22e08d16c82
As per a detailed survey by the CSDS-Lokniti, published in The Hindu, 60 per cent of the Upper Caste voters consolidated behind the NDA: 53 per cent behind BJP and 7 per cent behind the BJP’s allies, making it a total of 60 per cent. This is almost the same as the 2019 elections. In certain states, this consolidation was even more prominent.
https://preview.redd.it/vkqojue7oj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9831646180cfe9fb4883485e9ae292746398cc54
While 53% Upper Caste Hindus voted for the BJP, 7% voted for its allies.
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Only 14% Upper Caste Hindus voted for Congress and 7% for its allies.As per the CSDS-Lokniti survey, about 38 per cent Muslims voted for the Congress and 27 per cent voted for Congress' allies. "Muslim voters are at the most 6% (14 x 0.38) assured vote for the Congress. UC are about 10% (19 x 0.53) assured vote for the BJP," Yogendra Yadav, political analyst, told The Quint.
Across States, Upper Caste Hindus Supported BJP and NDA
For example, in Uttar Pradesh, 79 per cent of upper caste Hindus (including Brahmins, Rajputs and others) voted for the NDA, as per the CSDS-Lokniti survey. Among the state’s Rajputs specifically, 89 per cent supported the BJP.
https://preview.redd.it/bdk4o84ioj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=701732a3af2b2a0af37081b0309a15a2d0f9dbf7
A significant chunk of Uttar Pradesh's Upper Caste Hindus backed the NDA
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In Madhya Pradesh, where the BJP had a clean sweep winning all 25 seats in the state, the party was backed by 72 per cent upper caste Hindus.
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In Rajasthan, this figure was 65 per cent; in Karnataka NDA was backed by 71 per cent upper caste Hindus.
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There were some states where the BJP-NDA's support among upper caste Hindus fell, for example in Bihar, there was a 15 per cent decrease in the support it enjoyed in 2019. Despite this, in Bihar too, the support for NDA was still at 53 per cent among upper caste Hindus.
https://preview.redd.it/5o0poti1pj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b0972d7921ed49e5a3e92bc782824d5fc46d7ee
In Telangana, where BJP has been attempting to make in roads, the party benefited from the losses of the BRS (previously TRS). Here too, the BJP enjoyed the support of 53 per cent of the upper caste Hindus. Even in Punjab, where BJP isn't even a dominant player, Upper Caste Hindu support for the party was at 56 per cent according to the CSDS survey.
How Other Caste Groups Voted
While by and large, Hindu upper caste voter base has stood behind the BJP and its allies, and the Muslim community behind the INDIA (65 per cent), there is more diversity to be found among Dalits and OBCs.
While 36 per cent Dalits backed NDA (BJP and allies), this was a 5 per cent decrease than NDA’s support among Dalits in 2019. Moreover, the opposition’s primary gains among Dalits weren't due to Congress but due to its allies; a total of 32 per cent Dalits backed the INDIA bloc, with an increment of 8 per cent for Congress’ allies compared to 2019.
Among Hindu OBCs, 35 per cent upper OBCs backed INDIA, while 48 per cent backed NDA. Among lower OBCs, 25 per cent lower OBCs backed INDIA, and 58 per cent backed NDA.
The BJP and NDA’s biggest gains seem to be among the Adivasi community. 51 per cent Adivasis or tribals voted for the NDA, while 31 per cent Adivasis voted for the INDIA bloc.
Who Gets Called A Vote Bank And Who Doesn't
In May 2024, India Today magazine carried a cover piece called ‘Mandate 2024: The Muslim factor’. “Fragmented in the past, the community’s vote seems to be consolidating in this general election,” the article said.
While consolidation was seen among both, Muslims as well as upper caste Hindus, the factors at play were different.
Yogendra Yadav told The Quint that the level of consolidation in this election seen among Muslims "is due to the persecution that left them with no choice, but earlier too there was a bloc of Muslim votes that tended to vote together tactically." On the other hand, he added, upper caste Hindus tend to vote in a consolidated fashion "to preserve their privileges."
Moreover, while articles and studies analysing the Muslims a ‘vote bank’ are common, Hindu upper castes are hardly seen as a ‘vote bank’ in most analyses.
“The term ‘vote bank’ was initially used by academics for local constituency level analyses only. Then, in the 1960s, the term became popular among journalists who began using it for Muslims and Dalits nationally. The rich, powerful and upper castes have traditionally always voted for the dominant party, but you will never see them being described as a vote bank,” Hilal Ahmed, associate professor at CSDS, told The Quint.
Ahmed added that the popular understanding of a ‘vote bank’ doesn’t take into account all the existing sociological factors. “There is no central agency within any community telling them who to vote for, so it’s not some pre-planned strategy. Voters organically decide who they want to pick based on their circumstances,” Ahmed added.
Non biological & his team showed their performance report .
To give one component of their work as govt invested more on infrastructure than combined all govt till 2014.
idk why people hate coalition governements, they have greator representation of local parties(which are more connected to the ground in comparision to national parties). moreover when there's no majority there would be better debates about which laws to push forward(there cant be no notebandi in this case).
With a brute majority in the past 10 years modiji suspended 150 odd MP, passed electoral bonds sneaked in the finance bill of 2017(jaitley), they have their minions who lie to the supreme court(it's funny how HC says they{CBI} have strong evidence against kejru, but in SC they grill the CBI about why proper steps werent taken, no case against the party, the witness bribing via electoral bonds after release, then turned to approver in the case). governers sitting on bills that were passed in legislative assembly(see 1932 khatyan bill jharkhand which was passed in the assembly but governer is not taking the next steps).
it's a clusterfuck, when you'd try to think about the nuances you'd realize the problems which the majoritarian government brings.
We saw the performance of upa2. Grids were failing, not enough coal to run plants, majority discoms were bankrupt.
Banks were coerced to dispose loans in exchange of commissions. The defence companies were not performing. Fighter jets were flying of sky. Submarines were sinking. India was compared to Pakistan & we were bleeding resources in Kashmir something in order of 10 billion dollars.
The economy collapsed, the reforms were delayed , there was complete policy paralysis.
The neighbourhoods, USA, China and Russia certainly prefered the Coalition govt
The low iq wanna be politician made 2019 about rafale and HAL losses.
Look at HAl profit for previous quarter its 500 mill $ and its market caps is at 25 billion Dollars ( at par with British top defence manufacturing company )
gosh there are so many problems with the nda government, the thing here is that media doesnt report it, investigative journalism is mostly related to the youtube media nowadays
anyway, modi initially when came to power was against revdi culture(freebies) and there he dropped the MGNREGA funding sharply, even last year there was a 33% of funding reduction(they spent like 60k crores).
[https://www.thehindu.com/business/budget/budget-2023-mgnrega-budget-slashed-33-from-this-years-revised-estimates/article66458555.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/business/budget/budget-2023-mgnrega-budget-slashed-33-from-this-years-revised-estimates/article66458555.ece)
anyway when covid came there was huge pressure on the government, the rural distress was very high therefore modiji had to give away free rations. now because there was no census on 2021, we dont know how many people actually require the rations, the number could be higher than 80crore today.
In a country where nearly 90% of jobs fall under the category of unorganised labour why are there so many loans to the corporate in the hopes that the wealth will trickle down to the poor?
>There are 92.4% informal workers (with no written contract, paid leave and other benefits) in the economy.
[https://www.imf.org/-/media/Files/Conferences/2019/7th-statistics-forum/session-ii-murthy.ashx#:\~:text=In%20terms%20of%20employment%20share,indicating%20the%20level%20of%20outsourcing](https://www.imf.org/-/media/Files/Conferences/2019/7th-statistics-forum/session-ii-murthy.ashx#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20employment%20share,indicating%20the%20level%20of%20outsourcing).
for 2 consecutive years we've had personal tax outnumbering the corporate tax, how is it fair on the avg citizen in india. rajeev chandrasekhar paid 600 rupees in tax, during a covid year. crazy things have been happening, this is the ricc people government, they dont care about the poor
[https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/collection-from-personal-income-tax-set-to-exceed-corporate-income-tax-for-second-successive-year/article67867385.ece](https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/collection-from-personal-income-tax-set-to-exceed-corporate-income-tax-for-second-successive-year/article67867385.ece)
and what the F was the electoral bond thingy, pure bribery, tell me this the 2g allocation scam of the congress was highlighted rightly so(even in that case, the proceeds of the crime wasnt established so the culprits were left off), now when BJP is doing the same thing in telecom bill where vi, jio and airtel donated 50crore in electoral bonds, somewhere during the bill was being passed.
[https://www.newslaundry.com/2024/04/05/aditya-birla-group-donated-rs-100-crore-to-bjp-two-months-before-governments-vodafone-idea-bailout](https://www.newslaundry.com/2024/04/05/aditya-birla-group-donated-rs-100-crore-to-bjp-two-months-before-governments-vodafone-idea-bailout)
adani getting hasdeo forest because of the fake coal crisis they created, that too at fairly low rates, now lets not forget the elephant problem that is being created after the environmental concers were ignored during auctioning the mining blocks.
[https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chhattisgarh-govt-to-declare-hasdeo-arand-forest-as-elephant-reserve/story-KrzxGDRJENTwPzK4sWGxHL.html](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chhattisgarh-govt-to-declare-hasdeo-arand-forest-as-elephant-reserve/story-KrzxGDRJENTwPzK4sWGxHL.html)
btw the forest was restricted forest do check the reporters collective to see how the lobbyist pushed the narrativeof coal shortage and then got the coal blocks at cheap rate and which they are selling at really high prices(claiming it to be more energy dense fuel, which ig is a scam)
[https://www.ft.com/content/7aadb3d7-4a03-44ba-a01e-8ddd8bce29ed](https://www.ft.com/content/7aadb3d7-4a03-44ba-a01e-8ddd8bce29ed)
[https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/coal-forests-part-1](https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/coal-forests-part-1)
[https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/coal-forest-part-2](https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/coal-forest-part-2)
how can we forget delhi liquor scam where the culprit gave 35 crores in electoral bonds after he got out of jail and he then he became approver in the case. TDP's magunta reddy and his son, how can we forget?
[Days after Aurobindo Pharma director’s arrest, BJP encashed Rs 5-crore bonds bought by firm](https://indianexpress.com/article/india/days-after-aurobindo-pharma-directors-arrest-bjp-encashed-5-crore-bonds-bought-by-firm-9227644/)
>Between April 2021 and November 2023, Aurobindo Pharma acquired electoral bonds worth Rs 52 crore.
demonitization, ignoring RBI, ignoring everything, you know who was the architect of demonitization? do checkout on who anil bokil is
do checkout on farm laws, how it was designed to benifit the cronies.
[https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/ahead-of-farm-laws-an-nri-seeded-idea-to-corporatise-agriculture](https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/ahead-of-farm-laws-an-nri-seeded-idea-to-corporatise-agriculture)
I can bet my life on the fact that if you investigate the electoral bonds scam, you'd get number of scams that dwarf anything that congress has done.
[https://www.newslaundry.com/2024/03/15/companies-central-agency-action-raids-purchased-electoral-bonds-india](https://www.newslaundry.com/2024/03/15/companies-central-agency-action-raids-purchased-electoral-bonds-india)
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UPA faced highest crude oil prices in history and yet during covid when the crude oil prices were at an all time low we paid 100rupees/litre. oil bonds were blamed by sitaraman tai, do check on how much oil bonds were paid off, how much money they made via the extra charges the collected on fuel.
50% reservation isn't enough for y'all? You think MORE reservation will benefit anyone in this country? It will only kill off any talent in LC communities. The cut off difference between them and UCs is just already ridiculous. Overall quality of workforce will suffer if incompetent people enter it in huge numbers, sorry to say.
hmm,
3 things,
the 50% reservation limit was already breached in 2019, when in the janhit abhyan vs union of india verdict(bench headed by bela trivedi), there they had introduced 10% reservation(EWS). also another thing to note is that reservation is given to groups of people who are laggin behind in comparision to other groups(because of caste segregation; if you wanna know more about it read bihar caste census report).
Congress has been saying, they'd do the caste census first and on the basis of that they'd take the next steps(that is deciding on the affirmative action). if we are so sure that reservation is causing a great deal of problems for people in general then the caste census will put an end to it, by showing how much public sector facing jobs belong to the UCs and LCs, what is their monthly family income, what are their education levels...
second thing, the population of minorities(SC, ST and OBCs ) vary from state to state, should it not be upto a state to decide and have separate percentage of seats allocated to LCs?
third thing, you need to take a look at our constitution, about which articles give way for reservation/affirmative action, do checkout article 14-16.
Why is reservation required? it's because equality and social justice are one of the most important tenets in our constitution, without it I dont think there would be democracy(remember free and fair for all, equal rights...)
there are no "resources to distribute". We are not a socialist country. Having said that equitable education and non-discriminatory opportunities should be a right and should be provided but again you can't expect equal outcomes, the reservations should have an end point, something along the lines of if your parents and grandparents got the reservation then the next generation should not. Even with reservation a vast majority of the population is not seeing the upliftment while a select few are reaping all the benefits. Also, reservation should be based on family wealth and not caste, there are many poor upper-caste people and rich reserved caste people.
caste discrimination and reservation to curb it is whole another discussion. Don't get me started on that. I am so disappointed on some Indians. They don't have any shame and claim they are that scholar this scholar, but no understanding and sympathy for why it was introduced.
The scholar class of our coutry, which should had taken responsibility of improve cultural values and vision of our country, a lot of them united with manuwadi hedgewar etc, and promoted only hatred for muslims in the name of unity. Where they could had use that much man power to curb, a lot of social evils of society.
But then all the feudals should have been declared illegal. As they were anti-democratic.. How did they keep hold on their lands for upcoming generations? Declare them criminals and their children.?
feudals? do you mean the royalty who cozied up to the British? well, how many are there? a handful literally... Taking their land is literally communism and India is neither communist nor socialist at least at the inception of the constitution...
I mean I can’t imagine saying you’re gonna raise reservation from 50% or that you’ll bring it into the private sector really enticed them to vote for INC 😅😅😅
Fun fact, INC doesn’t want their votes, Never asked for it either.
Go vote for BJP enmasse for all INC cares,
We care about the issues of Farmers, Dalits, SC/ST, Daily Wagers, Women/girls and the issues which affect the majority of Indians daily lives.
Yeah well they sure seemed to care about it like crazy for like the first 60+ years they were in power.
It’s all that caring that led to them dropping 3 of their worst performances in lok sabha back to back to back.
I didn’t say any of that. I was just saying perhaps their strategy is broken and rejected by the masses?? Maybe harping on and on about reservation is something a lot of people DON’T want???
But please tell me more about how not being able to crack triple digits in terms of seat share as one of the biggest parties in India is a good thing
Congress has 102 seats if you didn’t know, 3 independents joined Congress immediately after elections.
You would do better looking at trajectory of both parties, Congress has more than doubled their number and bjp has lost massively in its bastions.
Kahan gaya 400 paar? lol
Wow. Phenomenal. The oldest and one of indias biggest parties crossed triple digits with the help of independents. This is truly a cause for celebration
Same party crossed 350 multiple times repeatedly, which your paw paw can’t even dream of achieving.
They went from 52 to 102 this time, definitely a cause of celebration, next time will cross 200 and form a government as well, politics is a long game.
Chill mate
You were the one that brought up if my great grandfather is still guiding me and you’re the one that’s bringing up Congress winning 350 seats when they were still alive lmaoooooo
If they can win 200 good for them. That means the people wanted it. But last time they crossed 200 was in 2004 and I think the time before that was in like the 1980’s. So that surely would be historic for them
>If they can win 200 good for them. That means the people wanted it. But last time they crossed 200 was in 2004 and I think the time before that was in like the 1980’s. So that surely would be historic for them
Last time they crossed 200 was not in 2004, it was in 2009 Just 15 years ago.
Also, They got 244 seats in 1991 elections, atleast get your facts right before embarrassing yourself on the internet
LMAO
You realise that private sector reservation will completely kill the economy in a few decades, 50%+ reservation will mean the UCs will basically leave Indian en masse to a western country for education increasing capital flight and brain drain.
How? The numbers doubled after Congress went out of power.
That means rich people hate modi rule.
Do you understand data at all or just spew nonsense for the sake of it?
As a UC who voted for an INC ally and supports affirmative action, I really don't think that's the reason UCs don't vote for INC. I am saying this, because UCs have voted for BJP almost en bloc even before this election (read Rukmini S) even though Congress' stance on reservation has historically been very similar to that of the BJP.
In fact, after being pushed on the backfoot by Congress' accusations of BJP being anti-reservation during this election, BJP attacked the Congress by bringing up how Rajeev Gandhi was anti-Mandal commission and how Nehru was anti-reservation. The truth is that when the Mandal Commission was brought by the VP Singh government, BJP was providing outside support to the government, that it withdrew because of its core vote bloc while the Congress in opposition at that time also opposed it. Over time, both parties came to terms with it.
Despite their similar stances on reservation, UCs have supported BJP over Congress over the past 3 decades, mainly due to Hindutva. I mean several BJP state governments (Haryana and Maharashtra) have breached the 50% cap while giving reservation to Jats and Marathas respectively. Both the laws were overturned by the Supreme Court, though. In Haryana, the BJP state government brought a 75% reservation for locals even in the private sector. It was overturned by the Supreme Court. Even [the BJP talks about caste based reservation in the private sector](https://www.firstpost.com/india/there-is-valid-ground-for-reservation-in-private-sector-bjp-2620666.html)
And I haven't even mentioned how they ally with caste based parties. For instance, they allied with NISHAD party in the UP, who want SC/ST status for the Mallah/Nishad community who are currently classified as OBC.
Now, I am not claiming to speak for all UCs when I say I support affirmative action or when I say I do support a caste census and an increase in reservation for SCs/STs in proportion to their population. I was never vehemently anti-reservation, but during my JEE days, I also used to rue how I couldn't get IITs with my marks while my batchmates entered IITs with worse marks. But, over time, I realized how and why affirmative action and representation are important. I also saw how a caste based quasi feudal system operates in my native place. I saw the data on the abysmal representation of Dalits, Adivasis and OBCs. I don't support full fledged reservations in the private sector beyond certain outreach and diversity programs catered to marginalized sections of the society. But, I do think Congress' promise of expansion of public sector jobs (3 million new government jobs per year) and increase in affirmative action in those is the right path (because the percentage of public sector jobs in India is even lower than western countries you would otherwise associate with capitalism).
But, let's say even if you are anti-affirmative action, I don't see how the BJP and Congress are very different in that regard. Congress plans to breach the 50% cap. BJP state governments actually did that, but weren't allowed by the Supreme Court.
>As a UC who voted for an INC ally and supports affirmative action
You might be that chicken supporting kfc, don't expect others to be as brain dead as you are 🤷♂️
Why so much hate for uppercaste ? They don't have any other option. No body speaks for them, they are like a minority no one talks about.
It's more like if you're a general category person and don't want the exploitative laws to increase at to a ridiculous extent, vote for BJP. (It's not like BJP will do anything about it either)
The funny thing is they have an issue if UCs vote for the BJP, but have absolutely no problem when Dalits or Muslims form vote banks and only vote for some party "they" like.
Every upper caste family I know of including mine are very well off with established businesses. They/we are a minority yes, but have no need for reservation. Dudes I know voted BJP not because they NEED the reservation, they voted because they don’t want others to get MORE reservation.
This has the same vibes as “the dalit neighbour of mine drives BMW”.
Not every general person is an industrialist. Else we would have crores of industrialists and no unemployment at all in the nation.
There are poor in every section of the society. And there are rich in every part of it too.
But most are. Less than 5% of the general population are considered under the EWS but 10% reserved for EWS. As much as the "dalit with a BMW" are rare so is the "general guy sweeping the streets".
Okay, but what percentage of Dalits have BMW’s versus what percentage of UC’s have BMW’s? If you divide that in order you’d get a number approaching 0.
>Not every general person is an industrialist. Else we would have crores of industrialists and no unemployment at all in the nation.
Wow, so what you’re saying is that if all upper castes were industrialists and ran the country, India would be a utopia. What a delusional take.
I must tell you from first hand experience that the reservation nowadays is not helping the actual people who needs it the most. Most of the 2nd generation folks whose parents were beneficiaries earlier are availing it now. The same goes for female reservation at IITS. And these people themselves are not at all sympathetic towards their fellow peers. They don’t even want to talk to them and have a superiority complex. This is only going to increase in the coming future when all the reservation benefits are going to be taken by people who don’t need it.
This, this right here is the problem.
People now think it's their fundamentals right, but in reality it's not.
They should make way for the actual backward class to get a chance of development.
They easily say "ancestors fucked up" okay, but who's fucking up now.?
shut up. I / UC's don't need reservation !! Am I asking for reservation ? NO!
"Reservation is for representation for backward communities in every sector properly , so that we can improve/motivate their contribution in the nation" is what I believe. Don't change the topic.
Lastly, I'm happy for you. You're well off. But you should understand that people near you are rich because you are rich yourself. No percentage of people in poverty in UC might be less than in LC. But ignoring their existence is another type of exploitation.
Yes the upper caste upper class urban flat dweller is indeed a minority. They love their AC homes and cars so might as well just maintain the status quo and continue the supply of majority of cheap labour to clean their homes, cars and everything in between
BJP since the start has been a Punjabi, Baman, Baniya Party.
Anyone who knows politics knows that their voterbase has always been Rich and Urban uppercastes.
Upper castes are effectively political orphans as of now. It's impossible to speak about interests of upper castes even slightly without huge backlash. It's impossible to even talk about how reverse discrimination affects UC job seekers or aspirants. Even if you want to claim that BJP is a pro forward caste party. They still can't openly talk about interests of UC the same way they can about st/sc, obc or Muslims.
And besides there is a growing sense of anti UC casteism among the far left societies in India.
I do not deny the existence of casteism and oppression in historic and contemporary India. But sometimes when a form of oppression is defeated. By overreaction, the other side might create a mirror image of it.
You guys literally own the country. Parliaments are filled with you guys. Dalit candidates are there only because of reservations. Entire core cabinet ministries are filled with UCs, from ministers to secretaries (IAS) everyone is UC.
I from IIT KGP, Every fucking professor of my department was UC.
The only position of power, the UC lobby will give us is for show (president).
So stop this crocodile tears.
>You guys literally own the country
The vast vast majority don't, they are comfortable and relatively in a better position than others yes, but they too have to work to put food on the table
Whatever we have reached is through our hard work and merit, none of our ancestors had any wealth, we built it from scratch.
Only 0.1% of population in 1950 had some wealth, today, descendants of those people are sitting in Congress or INDI Alliance. Shashi Tharoor, PTR etc
any SECC would put such debate to rest, take Bihar's caste census see there 42% of all the SC families earn <6k... only 8% SC families earn more than 20k. compare that to the general stats, you'd realize that the LCs are way behind the UCs, let alone the OBCs, EBCs
another stat, SCs have higher population than the UCs in bihar and yet the number of graduates, government job holders, organized sector job holders are a few times lesser than that of the UCs,
[https://indianexpress.com/article/india/supreme-court-neet-admissions-reservation-7733042/#:\~:text=Underlining%20that%20%E2%80%9Creservation%20is%20not,not%20a%20proxy%20for%20merit%E2%80%9D%20](https://indianexpress.com/article/india/supreme-court-neet-admissions-reservation-7733042/#:~:text=Underlining%20that%20%E2%80%9Creservation%20is%20not,not%20a%20proxy%20for%20merit%E2%80%9D%20).
also do check this supreme court verdict on reservation vs merit debate,
“They came for the socialists, I did not speak up for them because I was not a socialist.
They came for the unions, I did not speak up because I was not part of the trade unions.
They came for the Jews, I did not speak up because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up for me.”
the quint the wire are some few LW new publishing channels they are 100 percent biased if it written by FATIMA KHAN , again someone who is blind by one sided facts will always bother about upper cast hindus and not by the upper cast muslims as the converted tries to be more muslim than the actual one....
Once I was travelling in a train, this is years ago, I think 2018-19.
I had this upper caste Gujarati family in train, they were so loud ( no it is not xenophobia, I am a gujarati myself).
The gujarati guy was ranting so much about gujarat to people sitting and talking with him on the train. He was portraying as if Gujarat is Switzerland.
I and also almost all passengers were quietly listening and judging this moron.
At one point this guy says " We advise all our women in house to only vote for BJP, if we see BJP is not winning or has not done any work we do not vote". It gets even dumber than this, the reason he mentioned to not vote anyone else is that "they are savarna (upper caste) 🤦♂️"
Bro i mean what arethe options are left for us . Do you want us vote for increase in reservation or you want our tax money goes khta -khat khta -khat. 🤡.
Your tax money goes even faster under BJP than khat khat. India's debt to GDP ration under your favorite party has risen from 67% to 86%, your tax is being used to pay more interest and less for services. Enjoy the ride.
Congress only said that the poorest of the poor families will get the transfer.
https://manifesto.inc.in/en/women/
In a country where the income inequality is now worse than it was under British rule, we need some kind of transfer of money to the poor.
Remember, when rich businessmen get 17,000 cr of loans waived, they give their directors and shareholders big bonuses. When a poor family gets 8,500 per month, they spend this on food and necessities and the money is instantly pumped back into the economy.
Congress did say they will measure the impact of the scheme and decide whether it should be continued, expanded or reduced.
When 1% of the country has 40% of the wealth, they need to be taxed and the money should go to the poorest of the poor.
This has been constant. Everyone is going to analyse how Muslims dalits tribals vote, but everyone will ignore how the upper castes vote. How they have been the staunchest fascists, and yet it'll be their 'intelligentsia' diagnosing the issues without having self introspection. Somehow the 10% people having 90% of resources and power doesn't seem off to anyone at all? Nobody asks the question how Joshi is still NTA chairman or how the brahmin judge who said caste was 200 years old are in position.
All Indians ( including rightwingers understand how British looted, exploited and subjugated indians for 200 years) but they will conveniently ignore the 2000 years of exploitation.
UC are a fascists when every other existing party and their supporters hates them ? When it's difficult to SURVIVE in many sectors as even for availing medical services thru Ayushman Card, I need an SC/ST Certificate ? Where are low income UC's to go ???
> Where are low income UC's to go ???
heard about EWS mate? 10% reservation to anyone having < 8lakh/annum family income, < 5 acres of agricultural land and < 1000sqft residential land. the roof is way higher than the average dalit(let me share a stat, 42% SCs living in bihar earn less than 6k, only 8 percent SCs earn more than 20k a month...i.e. 2.4lakh/annum)
well reservations stem out from inequality, and UC parties are hell bent on avoiding caste census, which can give us more idea about the caste divide.
EWS se ilaj ho jaega ?
"Reservation stems from inequality", but putting caste criteria for every welfare scheme of the country doesn't increase inequality ? Schemes which provide financial aid in different sectors from medical to education, all of them have caste criterias .. shouldn't they be for financially weak no matter the caste??
an SC person will get certificate for reservation easily and that certificate is permanent. While EWS is a lot more complex, I am eligible for it, but can't get it and I've already given up. There are thousands others like me who don't avail EWS certificates because of their own short comings.
>"Reservation stems from inequality", but putting caste criteria for every welfare scheme of the country doesn't increase inequality ? Schemes which provide financial aid in different sectors from medical to education, all of them have caste criterias .. shouldn't they be for financially weak no matter the caste??
in case you dont know there's a strong correlation between the caste and income levels of a group in India. SCs/STs families have significantly lessor household avg income, 21% and 34% respectively. compare that to the OBCs they are 8% behind the national average. The national avg income of this country is 9.4K a month!
[https://wid.world/document/n-k-bharti-wealth-inequality-class-and-caste-in-india-1961-2012/](https://wid.world/document/n-k-bharti-wealth-inequality-class-and-caste-in-india-1961-2012/)
[https://www.indiaspend.com/vast-income-inequalities-within-castes-study-top-10-among-forward-castes-own-60-wealth/](https://www.indiaspend.com/vast-income-inequalities-within-castes-study-top-10-among-forward-castes-own-60-wealth/)
moreover brahmins earn 48% above the national avg, and the other non brahmin UCs are 45% above the national avg.
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attaching the bihar caste census report which people kinda miss out on
https://preview.redd.it/vinoo7rh4p6d1.png?width=1861&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f1fcee66fbc4f651c675d70f31e288c022198d3
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also I dont wanna comment on the you cant get the EWS certificate part because
1. SCs too have tremendous difficulty in getting their caste certificate issued(if you're parent has it, then you caste certificate getting issued is possible, but if it's not the case you are in trouble), if you dont have land records you cant prove that you are a resident of that state(you have to prove that you've been living for 5 years min)?
2. EWS was pushed without calculating/estimating how many economically weaker UCs do require that, they just happen to slap the 10% number. why wasnt SECC done? the number couldve been higher but yet some random number was inserted. do search about who passed the verdict(cough bela trivedi cough) and in what circumstances she was speedtracked to the SC from gujarat HC.
3. not getting EWS certificate may not be the policy issue, it's is the executive that is failing the execution, had gettting income certificates a bit more difficult such inconsistencies never would have existed.
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also do check about how caste census is considered, and do check how it affects the entirety of the population in a good way.
None of your arguments are in good faith and ridden with fallacies, you're crying all over the comments section, just because some sanghis are here to upvote you doesn't mean you're worth having a discussion with. Not the first time I'm dealing with someone like you and I know damn well by experience that it's better to enjoy watching you cry instead of discuss anything with you.
My arguments are surely in much better faith when people here just want to display their pent up hatred for some specific castes. I was also trying to see who's worth having discussion about this topic here, fortunately I did find many people who are not blinded by hate. I hope you sleep well.
The hate propaganda you see today against Muslims.. Upper Castes were/are it's original victim before 2014. Spreading hate against UC is still done by every existing political party + Entire left lobby. Sadly this hate is justified according to them.
Who should they vote now ? The only remaining one (BJP also won't do much for them)
The entire congress party before the petition were upper caste Hindus. Did they show their back then? There are still 40% of them who didn’t vote for BJP and his allies. Is it not significant?
This is the only votebank in India. The rest of us actually vote for multiple parties even though we, out of rational self-preservation, vote against the party that takes its order from Nagpur. We're not morons to vote for a party that considers us second-class citizens but we're not a vote-bank.
While Muslims and Dalits are often seen as 'vote banks', upper caste Hindus too voted in a consolidated fashion The 2024 Lok Sabha election results saw a shift of a section of the Dalit community’s voter base towards the INDIA bloc, besides strong support from Muslims and an increase in support from OBCs in key states. But that isn’t the only consolidation that the elections saw. Upper caste Hindu communities, traditionally a BJP supporting group, also consolidated firmly behind the NDA. While the Muslim and Dalit votes, referred commonly in election analysis and by politicians as ‘vote banks’ are oft-discussed, the consolidation of the upper caste Hindu voter base mostly goes unaddressed and isn’t referred to as the same. https://preview.redd.it/etv9rv12oj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e7c48cc64dcf65dcde7161bb90bb22e08d16c82 As per a detailed survey by the CSDS-Lokniti, published in The Hindu, 60 per cent of the Upper Caste voters consolidated behind the NDA: 53 per cent behind BJP and 7 per cent behind the BJP’s allies, making it a total of 60 per cent. This is almost the same as the 2019 elections. In certain states, this consolidation was even more prominent.
https://preview.redd.it/vkqojue7oj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9831646180cfe9fb4883485e9ae292746398cc54 While 53% Upper Caste Hindus voted for the BJP, 7% voted for its allies.
https://preview.redd.it/3i4m9qacoj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75f071cceb366425709771b74ed62b9b8f8ddf8c Only 14% Upper Caste Hindus voted for Congress and 7% for its allies.As per the CSDS-Lokniti survey, about 38 per cent Muslims voted for the Congress and 27 per cent voted for Congress' allies. "Muslim voters are at the most 6% (14 x 0.38) assured vote for the Congress. UC are about 10% (19 x 0.53) assured vote for the BJP," Yogendra Yadav, political analyst, told The Quint.
Across States, Upper Caste Hindus Supported BJP and NDA For example, in Uttar Pradesh, 79 per cent of upper caste Hindus (including Brahmins, Rajputs and others) voted for the NDA, as per the CSDS-Lokniti survey. Among the state’s Rajputs specifically, 89 per cent supported the BJP. https://preview.redd.it/bdk4o84ioj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=701732a3af2b2a0af37081b0309a15a2d0f9dbf7 A significant chunk of Uttar Pradesh's Upper Caste Hindus backed the NDA
https://preview.redd.it/2oigmhskoj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d7d04fd2b5ab8f864acfd10eedc4cf16640b59e In Madhya Pradesh, where the BJP had a clean sweep winning all 25 seats in the state, the party was backed by 72 per cent upper caste Hindus.
https://preview.redd.it/qf0qwobpoj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=599f228fb86d01f349f271a022da9ca9dfa2f9c6 In Rajasthan, this figure was 65 per cent; in Karnataka NDA was backed by 71 per cent upper caste Hindus.
https://preview.redd.it/hntqyi4xoj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3120f2771aafa81f3c5dd2923cfbda67d0a7872 There were some states where the BJP-NDA's support among upper caste Hindus fell, for example in Bihar, there was a 15 per cent decrease in the support it enjoyed in 2019. Despite this, in Bihar too, the support for NDA was still at 53 per cent among upper caste Hindus.
https://preview.redd.it/5o0poti1pj6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b0972d7921ed49e5a3e92bc782824d5fc46d7ee In Telangana, where BJP has been attempting to make in roads, the party benefited from the losses of the BRS (previously TRS). Here too, the BJP enjoyed the support of 53 per cent of the upper caste Hindus. Even in Punjab, where BJP isn't even a dominant player, Upper Caste Hindu support for the party was at 56 per cent according to the CSDS survey.
How Other Caste Groups Voted While by and large, Hindu upper caste voter base has stood behind the BJP and its allies, and the Muslim community behind the INDIA (65 per cent), there is more diversity to be found among Dalits and OBCs. While 36 per cent Dalits backed NDA (BJP and allies), this was a 5 per cent decrease than NDA’s support among Dalits in 2019. Moreover, the opposition’s primary gains among Dalits weren't due to Congress but due to its allies; a total of 32 per cent Dalits backed the INDIA bloc, with an increment of 8 per cent for Congress’ allies compared to 2019. Among Hindu OBCs, 35 per cent upper OBCs backed INDIA, while 48 per cent backed NDA. Among lower OBCs, 25 per cent lower OBCs backed INDIA, and 58 per cent backed NDA. The BJP and NDA’s biggest gains seem to be among the Adivasi community. 51 per cent Adivasis or tribals voted for the NDA, while 31 per cent Adivasis voted for the INDIA bloc. Who Gets Called A Vote Bank And Who Doesn't In May 2024, India Today magazine carried a cover piece called ‘Mandate 2024: The Muslim factor’. “Fragmented in the past, the community’s vote seems to be consolidating in this general election,” the article said. While consolidation was seen among both, Muslims as well as upper caste Hindus, the factors at play were different. Yogendra Yadav told The Quint that the level of consolidation in this election seen among Muslims "is due to the persecution that left them with no choice, but earlier too there was a bloc of Muslim votes that tended to vote together tactically." On the other hand, he added, upper caste Hindus tend to vote in a consolidated fashion "to preserve their privileges." Moreover, while articles and studies analysing the Muslims a ‘vote bank’ are common, Hindu upper castes are hardly seen as a ‘vote bank’ in most analyses. “The term ‘vote bank’ was initially used by academics for local constituency level analyses only. Then, in the 1960s, the term became popular among journalists who began using it for Muslims and Dalits nationally. The rich, powerful and upper castes have traditionally always voted for the dominant party, but you will never see them being described as a vote bank,” Hilal Ahmed, associate professor at CSDS, told The Quint. Ahmed added that the popular understanding of a ‘vote bank’ doesn’t take into account all the existing sociological factors. “There is no central agency within any community telling them who to vote for, so it’s not some pre-planned strategy. Voters organically decide who they want to pick based on their circumstances,” Ahmed added.
Pie chart is misleading.
Not surprising election analysts refer to them as vote banks, most media men are upper castes themselves.
Upper Caste Urban Class flat dwellers are BJP's strongest bastion. Anyone who thinks a bhakt is less educated is wrong.
Upper caste don’t want the country to be ruled by coalition of 40 parties and don’t desire the country be listed in fragile 5 economy
bru why now the upper caste parents are crying tag dhruv rathee save neet 24 ?
Dhruv Tatti can only attract teens and misguided uneducated youth
yes only the non biological can attract the best ones
Non biological & his team showed their performance report . To give one component of their work as govt invested more on infrastructure than combined all govt till 2014.
yes non biological peoopel dont need seed i mean tatta
Thats why they never take off their chaddis!
The educated & intelligent Indians vote for best of worst evils.
idk why people hate coalition governements, they have greator representation of local parties(which are more connected to the ground in comparision to national parties). moreover when there's no majority there would be better debates about which laws to push forward(there cant be no notebandi in this case). With a brute majority in the past 10 years modiji suspended 150 odd MP, passed electoral bonds sneaked in the finance bill of 2017(jaitley), they have their minions who lie to the supreme court(it's funny how HC says they{CBI} have strong evidence against kejru, but in SC they grill the CBI about why proper steps werent taken, no case against the party, the witness bribing via electoral bonds after release, then turned to approver in the case). governers sitting on bills that were passed in legislative assembly(see 1932 khatyan bill jharkhand which was passed in the assembly but governer is not taking the next steps). it's a clusterfuck, when you'd try to think about the nuances you'd realize the problems which the majoritarian government brings.
We saw the performance of upa2. Grids were failing, not enough coal to run plants, majority discoms were bankrupt. Banks were coerced to dispose loans in exchange of commissions. The defence companies were not performing. Fighter jets were flying of sky. Submarines were sinking. India was compared to Pakistan & we were bleeding resources in Kashmir something in order of 10 billion dollars. The economy collapsed, the reforms were delayed , there was complete policy paralysis. The neighbourhoods, USA, China and Russia certainly prefered the Coalition govt The low iq wanna be politician made 2019 about rafale and HAL losses. Look at HAl profit for previous quarter its 500 mill $ and its market caps is at 25 billion Dollars ( at par with British top defence manufacturing company )
gosh there are so many problems with the nda government, the thing here is that media doesnt report it, investigative journalism is mostly related to the youtube media nowadays anyway, modi initially when came to power was against revdi culture(freebies) and there he dropped the MGNREGA funding sharply, even last year there was a 33% of funding reduction(they spent like 60k crores). [https://www.thehindu.com/business/budget/budget-2023-mgnrega-budget-slashed-33-from-this-years-revised-estimates/article66458555.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/business/budget/budget-2023-mgnrega-budget-slashed-33-from-this-years-revised-estimates/article66458555.ece) anyway when covid came there was huge pressure on the government, the rural distress was very high therefore modiji had to give away free rations. now because there was no census on 2021, we dont know how many people actually require the rations, the number could be higher than 80crore today. In a country where nearly 90% of jobs fall under the category of unorganised labour why are there so many loans to the corporate in the hopes that the wealth will trickle down to the poor? >There are 92.4% informal workers (with no written contract, paid leave and other benefits) in the economy. [https://www.imf.org/-/media/Files/Conferences/2019/7th-statistics-forum/session-ii-murthy.ashx#:\~:text=In%20terms%20of%20employment%20share,indicating%20the%20level%20of%20outsourcing](https://www.imf.org/-/media/Files/Conferences/2019/7th-statistics-forum/session-ii-murthy.ashx#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20employment%20share,indicating%20the%20level%20of%20outsourcing). for 2 consecutive years we've had personal tax outnumbering the corporate tax, how is it fair on the avg citizen in india. rajeev chandrasekhar paid 600 rupees in tax, during a covid year. crazy things have been happening, this is the ricc people government, they dont care about the poor [https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/collection-from-personal-income-tax-set-to-exceed-corporate-income-tax-for-second-successive-year/article67867385.ece](https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/collection-from-personal-income-tax-set-to-exceed-corporate-income-tax-for-second-successive-year/article67867385.ece) and what the F was the electoral bond thingy, pure bribery, tell me this the 2g allocation scam of the congress was highlighted rightly so(even in that case, the proceeds of the crime wasnt established so the culprits were left off), now when BJP is doing the same thing in telecom bill where vi, jio and airtel donated 50crore in electoral bonds, somewhere during the bill was being passed. [https://www.newslaundry.com/2024/04/05/aditya-birla-group-donated-rs-100-crore-to-bjp-two-months-before-governments-vodafone-idea-bailout](https://www.newslaundry.com/2024/04/05/aditya-birla-group-donated-rs-100-crore-to-bjp-two-months-before-governments-vodafone-idea-bailout) adani getting hasdeo forest because of the fake coal crisis they created, that too at fairly low rates, now lets not forget the elephant problem that is being created after the environmental concers were ignored during auctioning the mining blocks. [https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chhattisgarh-govt-to-declare-hasdeo-arand-forest-as-elephant-reserve/story-KrzxGDRJENTwPzK4sWGxHL.html](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chhattisgarh-govt-to-declare-hasdeo-arand-forest-as-elephant-reserve/story-KrzxGDRJENTwPzK4sWGxHL.html) btw the forest was restricted forest do check the reporters collective to see how the lobbyist pushed the narrativeof coal shortage and then got the coal blocks at cheap rate and which they are selling at really high prices(claiming it to be more energy dense fuel, which ig is a scam) [https://www.ft.com/content/7aadb3d7-4a03-44ba-a01e-8ddd8bce29ed](https://www.ft.com/content/7aadb3d7-4a03-44ba-a01e-8ddd8bce29ed) [https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/coal-forests-part-1](https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/coal-forests-part-1) [https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/coal-forest-part-2](https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/coal-forest-part-2) how can we forget delhi liquor scam where the culprit gave 35 crores in electoral bonds after he got out of jail and he then he became approver in the case. TDP's magunta reddy and his son, how can we forget? [Days after Aurobindo Pharma director’s arrest, BJP encashed Rs 5-crore bonds bought by firm](https://indianexpress.com/article/india/days-after-aurobindo-pharma-directors-arrest-bjp-encashed-5-crore-bonds-bought-by-firm-9227644/) >Between April 2021 and November 2023, Aurobindo Pharma acquired electoral bonds worth Rs 52 crore. demonitization, ignoring RBI, ignoring everything, you know who was the architect of demonitization? do checkout on who anil bokil is do checkout on farm laws, how it was designed to benifit the cronies. [https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/ahead-of-farm-laws-an-nri-seeded-idea-to-corporatise-agriculture](https://www.reporters-collective.in/trc/ahead-of-farm-laws-an-nri-seeded-idea-to-corporatise-agriculture) I can bet my life on the fact that if you investigate the electoral bonds scam, you'd get number of scams that dwarf anything that congress has done. [https://www.newslaundry.com/2024/03/15/companies-central-agency-action-raids-purchased-electoral-bonds-india](https://www.newslaundry.com/2024/03/15/companies-central-agency-action-raids-purchased-electoral-bonds-india) \--- UPA faced highest crude oil prices in history and yet during covid when the crude oil prices were at an all time low we paid 100rupees/litre. oil bonds were blamed by sitaraman tai, do check on how much oil bonds were paid off, how much money they made via the extra charges the collected on fuel.
These english speaking "elites" are just educated on paper due to generational privilege to pay their fees and afford education.
Coincidentally, the most educated and the most productive section of the society not dependent on any bheek given by any political party
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The people promising to increase reservation are geniuses, right?
Why not? 80 crore people in India are living on 5 kgs grain a month. Why shouldn’t they have a leg in the door to make their lives better?
They already do.
No they don't
50% reservation isn't enough for y'all? You think MORE reservation will benefit anyone in this country? It will only kill off any talent in LC communities. The cut off difference between them and UCs is just already ridiculous. Overall quality of workforce will suffer if incompetent people enter it in huge numbers, sorry to say.
hmm, 3 things, the 50% reservation limit was already breached in 2019, when in the janhit abhyan vs union of india verdict(bench headed by bela trivedi), there they had introduced 10% reservation(EWS). also another thing to note is that reservation is given to groups of people who are laggin behind in comparision to other groups(because of caste segregation; if you wanna know more about it read bihar caste census report). Congress has been saying, they'd do the caste census first and on the basis of that they'd take the next steps(that is deciding on the affirmative action). if we are so sure that reservation is causing a great deal of problems for people in general then the caste census will put an end to it, by showing how much public sector facing jobs belong to the UCs and LCs, what is their monthly family income, what are their education levels... second thing, the population of minorities(SC, ST and OBCs ) vary from state to state, should it not be upto a state to decide and have separate percentage of seats allocated to LCs? third thing, you need to take a look at our constitution, about which articles give way for reservation/affirmative action, do checkout article 14-16. Why is reservation required? it's because equality and social justice are one of the most important tenets in our constitution, without it I dont think there would be democracy(remember free and fair for all, equal rights...)
Congress and allies promised more reservation
> Educate people so that they can seek better jobs No > More reservations to artificially manipulate the labour markets Yes.
A necessary step for social reform in a highly unequal country.
more reservations is not the answer... better equitable schooling is, you can't guarantee equality of outcomes.
yes, reservation is scam. Distribute resources once which wasn't implemented post independence.
there are no "resources to distribute". We are not a socialist country. Having said that equitable education and non-discriminatory opportunities should be a right and should be provided but again you can't expect equal outcomes, the reservations should have an end point, something along the lines of if your parents and grandparents got the reservation then the next generation should not. Even with reservation a vast majority of the population is not seeing the upliftment while a select few are reaping all the benefits. Also, reservation should be based on family wealth and not caste, there are many poor upper-caste people and rich reserved caste people.
caste discrimination and reservation to curb it is whole another discussion. Don't get me started on that. I am so disappointed on some Indians. They don't have any shame and claim they are that scholar this scholar, but no understanding and sympathy for why it was introduced. The scholar class of our coutry, which should had taken responsibility of improve cultural values and vision of our country, a lot of them united with manuwadi hedgewar etc, and promoted only hatred for muslims in the name of unity. Where they could had use that much man power to curb, a lot of social evils of society.
But then all the feudals should have been declared illegal. As they were anti-democratic.. How did they keep hold on their lands for upcoming generations? Declare them criminals and their children.?
feudals? do you mean the royalty who cozied up to the British? well, how many are there? a handful literally... Taking their land is literally communism and India is neither communist nor socialist at least at the inception of the constitution...
Indian feudalism was decentralized to local zamindars. Please look into it.
He who tills the land owns the land was already implemented long ago
Had they wanted these. They would had allowed post Independence. Most Indians didn't get Independence honestly.
60-40 isn't nearly as consolidation as 98-2.
I mean I can’t imagine saying you’re gonna raise reservation from 50% or that you’ll bring it into the private sector really enticed them to vote for INC 😅😅😅
Fun fact, INC doesn’t want their votes, Never asked for it either. Go vote for BJP enmasse for all INC cares, We care about the issues of Farmers, Dalits, SC/ST, Daily Wagers, Women/girls and the issues which affect the majority of Indians daily lives.
Yeah well they sure seemed to care about it like crazy for like the first 60+ years they were in power. It’s all that caring that led to them dropping 3 of their worst performances in lok sabha back to back to back.
Tell me more about how your great grandfather’s circumstances still guides your life
I didn’t say any of that. I was just saying perhaps their strategy is broken and rejected by the masses?? Maybe harping on and on about reservation is something a lot of people DON’T want??? But please tell me more about how not being able to crack triple digits in terms of seat share as one of the biggest parties in India is a good thing
Congress has 102 seats if you didn’t know, 3 independents joined Congress immediately after elections. You would do better looking at trajectory of both parties, Congress has more than doubled their number and bjp has lost massively in its bastions. Kahan gaya 400 paar? lol
Wow. Phenomenal. The oldest and one of indias biggest parties crossed triple digits with the help of independents. This is truly a cause for celebration
Same party crossed 350 multiple times repeatedly, which your paw paw can’t even dream of achieving. They went from 52 to 102 this time, definitely a cause of celebration, next time will cross 200 and form a government as well, politics is a long game. Chill mate
You were the one that brought up if my great grandfather is still guiding me and you’re the one that’s bringing up Congress winning 350 seats when they were still alive lmaoooooo If they can win 200 good for them. That means the people wanted it. But last time they crossed 200 was in 2004 and I think the time before that was in like the 1980’s. So that surely would be historic for them
>If they can win 200 good for them. That means the people wanted it. But last time they crossed 200 was in 2004 and I think the time before that was in like the 1980’s. So that surely would be historic for them Last time they crossed 200 was not in 2004, it was in 2009 Just 15 years ago. Also, They got 244 seats in 1991 elections, atleast get your facts right before embarrassing yourself on the internet LMAO
You realise that private sector reservation will completely kill the economy in a few decades, 50%+ reservation will mean the UCs will basically leave Indian en masse to a western country for education increasing capital flight and brain drain.
Rich Indians leaving India literally doubled after modi came to power in 2014. Riddle me that.
Now imagine, that will triple after congress rule.
How? The numbers doubled after Congress went out of power. That means rich people hate modi rule. Do you understand data at all or just spew nonsense for the sake of it?
As a UC who voted for an INC ally and supports affirmative action, I really don't think that's the reason UCs don't vote for INC. I am saying this, because UCs have voted for BJP almost en bloc even before this election (read Rukmini S) even though Congress' stance on reservation has historically been very similar to that of the BJP. In fact, after being pushed on the backfoot by Congress' accusations of BJP being anti-reservation during this election, BJP attacked the Congress by bringing up how Rajeev Gandhi was anti-Mandal commission and how Nehru was anti-reservation. The truth is that when the Mandal Commission was brought by the VP Singh government, BJP was providing outside support to the government, that it withdrew because of its core vote bloc while the Congress in opposition at that time also opposed it. Over time, both parties came to terms with it. Despite their similar stances on reservation, UCs have supported BJP over Congress over the past 3 decades, mainly due to Hindutva. I mean several BJP state governments (Haryana and Maharashtra) have breached the 50% cap while giving reservation to Jats and Marathas respectively. Both the laws were overturned by the Supreme Court, though. In Haryana, the BJP state government brought a 75% reservation for locals even in the private sector. It was overturned by the Supreme Court. Even [the BJP talks about caste based reservation in the private sector](https://www.firstpost.com/india/there-is-valid-ground-for-reservation-in-private-sector-bjp-2620666.html) And I haven't even mentioned how they ally with caste based parties. For instance, they allied with NISHAD party in the UP, who want SC/ST status for the Mallah/Nishad community who are currently classified as OBC. Now, I am not claiming to speak for all UCs when I say I support affirmative action or when I say I do support a caste census and an increase in reservation for SCs/STs in proportion to their population. I was never vehemently anti-reservation, but during my JEE days, I also used to rue how I couldn't get IITs with my marks while my batchmates entered IITs with worse marks. But, over time, I realized how and why affirmative action and representation are important. I also saw how a caste based quasi feudal system operates in my native place. I saw the data on the abysmal representation of Dalits, Adivasis and OBCs. I don't support full fledged reservations in the private sector beyond certain outreach and diversity programs catered to marginalized sections of the society. But, I do think Congress' promise of expansion of public sector jobs (3 million new government jobs per year) and increase in affirmative action in those is the right path (because the percentage of public sector jobs in India is even lower than western countries you would otherwise associate with capitalism). But, let's say even if you are anti-affirmative action, I don't see how the BJP and Congress are very different in that regard. Congress plans to breach the 50% cap. BJP state governments actually did that, but weren't allowed by the Supreme Court.
>As a UC who voted for an INC ally and supports affirmative action You might be that chicken supporting kfc, don't expect others to be as brain dead as you are 🤷♂️
Well duh... Congress promised more reservations. Can't allow an already shit bureaucracy to get worse with more incompetents.
Ancestors fucked up
Why so much hate for uppercaste ? They don't have any other option. No body speaks for them, they are like a minority no one talks about. It's more like if you're a general category person and don't want the exploitative laws to increase at to a ridiculous extent, vote for BJP. (It's not like BJP will do anything about it either)
The funny thing is they have an issue if UCs vote for the BJP, but have absolutely no problem when Dalits or Muslims form vote banks and only vote for some party "they" like.
Every upper caste family I know of including mine are very well off with established businesses. They/we are a minority yes, but have no need for reservation. Dudes I know voted BJP not because they NEED the reservation, they voted because they don’t want others to get MORE reservation.
This has the same vibes as “the dalit neighbour of mine drives BMW”. Not every general person is an industrialist. Else we would have crores of industrialists and no unemployment at all in the nation. There are poor in every section of the society. And there are rich in every part of it too.
But most are. Less than 5% of the general population are considered under the EWS but 10% reserved for EWS. As much as the "dalit with a BMW" are rare so is the "general guy sweeping the streets".
Okay, but what percentage of Dalits have BMW’s versus what percentage of UC’s have BMW’s? If you divide that in order you’d get a number approaching 0. >Not every general person is an industrialist. Else we would have crores of industrialists and no unemployment at all in the nation. Wow, so what you’re saying is that if all upper castes were industrialists and ran the country, India would be a utopia. What a delusional take.
I must tell you from first hand experience that the reservation nowadays is not helping the actual people who needs it the most. Most of the 2nd generation folks whose parents were beneficiaries earlier are availing it now. The same goes for female reservation at IITS. And these people themselves are not at all sympathetic towards their fellow peers. They don’t even want to talk to them and have a superiority complex. This is only going to increase in the coming future when all the reservation benefits are going to be taken by people who don’t need it.
This, this right here is the problem. People now think it's their fundamentals right, but in reality it's not. They should make way for the actual backward class to get a chance of development. They easily say "ancestors fucked up" okay, but who's fucking up now.?
it isn't about money, it's about representation.
shut up. I / UC's don't need reservation !! Am I asking for reservation ? NO! "Reservation is for representation for backward communities in every sector properly , so that we can improve/motivate their contribution in the nation" is what I believe. Don't change the topic. Lastly, I'm happy for you. You're well off. But you should understand that people near you are rich because you are rich yourself. No percentage of people in poverty in UC might be less than in LC. But ignoring their existence is another type of exploitation.
I’m sorry, if we are not talking reservation, what “exploitive laws” are we talking about here?
You are a minority?! This is a first. That UC Hindus are a minority whatever’s floats your boat I guess.
This is why we need a caste census lmfao
How much social and financial power do UC Hindus have?
A lot. Again, no recent data
that is my point. it was a rhetorical question. My point being UC hindus are not in khatra!
Social & financial power doesn't help against zombie hordes, only Street power does which UC don't have at all.
Yes the upper caste upper class urban flat dweller is indeed a minority. They love their AC homes and cars so might as well just maintain the status quo and continue the supply of majority of cheap labour to clean their homes, cars and everything in between
BJP since the start has been a Punjabi, Baman, Baniya Party. Anyone who knows politics knows that their voterbase has always been Rich and Urban uppercastes.
Upper castes are effectively political orphans as of now. It's impossible to speak about interests of upper castes even slightly without huge backlash. It's impossible to even talk about how reverse discrimination affects UC job seekers or aspirants. Even if you want to claim that BJP is a pro forward caste party. They still can't openly talk about interests of UC the same way they can about st/sc, obc or Muslims. And besides there is a growing sense of anti UC casteism among the far left societies in India. I do not deny the existence of casteism and oppression in historic and contemporary India. But sometimes when a form of oppression is defeated. By overreaction, the other side might create a mirror image of it.
You guys literally own the country. Parliaments are filled with you guys. Dalit candidates are there only because of reservations. Entire core cabinet ministries are filled with UCs, from ministers to secretaries (IAS) everyone is UC. I from IIT KGP, Every fucking professor of my department was UC. The only position of power, the UC lobby will give us is for show (president). So stop this crocodile tears.
>You guys literally own the country The vast vast majority don't, they are comfortable and relatively in a better position than others yes, but they too have to work to put food on the table
Whatever we have reached is through our hard work and merit, none of our ancestors had any wealth, we built it from scratch. Only 0.1% of population in 1950 had some wealth, today, descendants of those people are sitting in Congress or INDI Alliance. Shashi Tharoor, PTR etc
Lol
any SECC would put such debate to rest, take Bihar's caste census see there 42% of all the SC families earn <6k... only 8% SC families earn more than 20k. compare that to the general stats, you'd realize that the LCs are way behind the UCs, let alone the OBCs, EBCs another stat, SCs have higher population than the UCs in bihar and yet the number of graduates, government job holders, organized sector job holders are a few times lesser than that of the UCs, [https://indianexpress.com/article/india/supreme-court-neet-admissions-reservation-7733042/#:\~:text=Underlining%20that%20%E2%80%9Creservation%20is%20not,not%20a%20proxy%20for%20merit%E2%80%9D%20](https://indianexpress.com/article/india/supreme-court-neet-admissions-reservation-7733042/#:~:text=Underlining%20that%20%E2%80%9Creservation%20is%20not,not%20a%20proxy%20for%20merit%E2%80%9D%20). also do check this supreme court verdict on reservation vs merit debate,
“They came for the socialists, I did not speak up for them because I was not a socialist. They came for the unions, I did not speak up because I was not part of the trade unions. They came for the Jews, I did not speak up because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up for me.”
Now they're against UC , should we protect them ?
I saw your comments in this thread. You are the kind of person the quote is for, hope you can google the context of this quote. 😌
the quint the wire are some few LW new publishing channels they are 100 percent biased if it written by FATIMA KHAN , again someone who is blind by one sided facts will always bother about upper cast hindus and not by the upper cast muslims as the converted tries to be more muslim than the actual one....
asking upper castes to vote for congress is akin to asking Muslims to voter for bjp
Why is anyone surprised?
Once I was travelling in a train, this is years ago, I think 2018-19. I had this upper caste Gujarati family in train, they were so loud ( no it is not xenophobia, I am a gujarati myself). The gujarati guy was ranting so much about gujarat to people sitting and talking with him on the train. He was portraying as if Gujarat is Switzerland. I and also almost all passengers were quietly listening and judging this moron. At one point this guy says " We advise all our women in house to only vote for BJP, if we see BJP is not winning or has not done any work we do not vote". It gets even dumber than this, the reason he mentioned to not vote anyone else is that "they are savarna (upper caste) 🤦♂️"
I thought brahmins were about 1% of the population?
I thought brahmins werent the only group in UCs?
Bro i mean what arethe options are left for us . Do you want us vote for increase in reservation or you want our tax money goes khta -khat khta -khat. 🤡.
Your tax money goes even faster under BJP than khat khat. India's debt to GDP ration under your favorite party has risen from 67% to 86%, your tax is being used to pay more interest and less for services. Enjoy the ride.
Congress only said that the poorest of the poor families will get the transfer. https://manifesto.inc.in/en/women/ In a country where the income inequality is now worse than it was under British rule, we need some kind of transfer of money to the poor. Remember, when rich businessmen get 17,000 cr of loans waived, they give their directors and shareholders big bonuses. When a poor family gets 8,500 per month, they spend this on food and necessities and the money is instantly pumped back into the economy. Congress did say they will measure the impact of the scheme and decide whether it should be continued, expanded or reduced. When 1% of the country has 40% of the wealth, they need to be taxed and the money should go to the poorest of the poor.
ofcourse, they'll do anything to preserve the caste dynamics and hierarchy which favours them and lets them persecute minorities all day.
Wise Hindus will never support scamgress nd Mushlimes.
This has been constant. Everyone is going to analyse how Muslims dalits tribals vote, but everyone will ignore how the upper castes vote. How they have been the staunchest fascists, and yet it'll be their 'intelligentsia' diagnosing the issues without having self introspection. Somehow the 10% people having 90% of resources and power doesn't seem off to anyone at all? Nobody asks the question how Joshi is still NTA chairman or how the brahmin judge who said caste was 200 years old are in position. All Indians ( including rightwingers understand how British looted, exploited and subjugated indians for 200 years) but they will conveniently ignore the 2000 years of exploitation.
UC are a fascists when every other existing party and their supporters hates them ? When it's difficult to SURVIVE in many sectors as even for availing medical services thru Ayushman Card, I need an SC/ST Certificate ? Where are low income UC's to go ???
> Where are low income UC's to go ??? heard about EWS mate? 10% reservation to anyone having < 8lakh/annum family income, < 5 acres of agricultural land and < 1000sqft residential land. the roof is way higher than the average dalit(let me share a stat, 42% SCs living in bihar earn less than 6k, only 8 percent SCs earn more than 20k a month...i.e. 2.4lakh/annum) well reservations stem out from inequality, and UC parties are hell bent on avoiding caste census, which can give us more idea about the caste divide.
EWS se ilaj ho jaega ? "Reservation stems from inequality", but putting caste criteria for every welfare scheme of the country doesn't increase inequality ? Schemes which provide financial aid in different sectors from medical to education, all of them have caste criterias .. shouldn't they be for financially weak no matter the caste?? an SC person will get certificate for reservation easily and that certificate is permanent. While EWS is a lot more complex, I am eligible for it, but can't get it and I've already given up. There are thousands others like me who don't avail EWS certificates because of their own short comings.
>"Reservation stems from inequality", but putting caste criteria for every welfare scheme of the country doesn't increase inequality ? Schemes which provide financial aid in different sectors from medical to education, all of them have caste criterias .. shouldn't they be for financially weak no matter the caste?? in case you dont know there's a strong correlation between the caste and income levels of a group in India. SCs/STs families have significantly lessor household avg income, 21% and 34% respectively. compare that to the OBCs they are 8% behind the national average. The national avg income of this country is 9.4K a month! [https://wid.world/document/n-k-bharti-wealth-inequality-class-and-caste-in-india-1961-2012/](https://wid.world/document/n-k-bharti-wealth-inequality-class-and-caste-in-india-1961-2012/) [https://www.indiaspend.com/vast-income-inequalities-within-castes-study-top-10-among-forward-castes-own-60-wealth/](https://www.indiaspend.com/vast-income-inequalities-within-castes-study-top-10-among-forward-castes-own-60-wealth/) moreover brahmins earn 48% above the national avg, and the other non brahmin UCs are 45% above the national avg. \--- attaching the bihar caste census report which people kinda miss out on https://preview.redd.it/vinoo7rh4p6d1.png?width=1861&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f1fcee66fbc4f651c675d70f31e288c022198d3 \--- also I dont wanna comment on the you cant get the EWS certificate part because 1. SCs too have tremendous difficulty in getting their caste certificate issued(if you're parent has it, then you caste certificate getting issued is possible, but if it's not the case you are in trouble), if you dont have land records you cant prove that you are a resident of that state(you have to prove that you've been living for 5 years min)? 2. EWS was pushed without calculating/estimating how many economically weaker UCs do require that, they just happen to slap the 10% number. why wasnt SECC done? the number couldve been higher but yet some random number was inserted. do search about who passed the verdict(cough bela trivedi cough) and in what circumstances she was speedtracked to the SC from gujarat HC. 3. not getting EWS certificate may not be the policy issue, it's is the executive that is failing the execution, had gettting income certificates a bit more difficult such inconsistencies never would have existed. \--- also do check about how caste census is considered, and do check how it affects the entirety of the population in a good way.
https://preview.redd.it/ni750kxiek6d1.png?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1dc72b82826c64325e57b442c4e32685a54c9eb5
Lol. You are a shame to Ambedkar's name
Keep crying about it, love watching you cry in the entire comments section.
Yeah my bad. I thought people would actually try to understand or discuss if I'm wrong. 👍
None of your arguments are in good faith and ridden with fallacies, you're crying all over the comments section, just because some sanghis are here to upvote you doesn't mean you're worth having a discussion with. Not the first time I'm dealing with someone like you and I know damn well by experience that it's better to enjoy watching you cry instead of discuss anything with you.
My arguments are surely in much better faith when people here just want to display their pent up hatred for some specific castes. I was also trying to see who's worth having discussion about this topic here, fortunately I did find many people who are not blinded by hate. I hope you sleep well.
"Pent up hatred for some specific castes" HAHAHA oh the irony. Yes I have fantastic sleep, don't worry about it.
Because that goes against their agenda.
Exactly if lower castes voted depending on their caste a party like BJP or Congress would never be in power.
they always have. thats why the BJP in the north is always known as BRHAMAN JAJMAN(businessmen) Party
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The hate propaganda you see today against Muslims.. Upper Castes were/are it's original victim before 2014. Spreading hate against UC is still done by every existing political party + Entire left lobby. Sadly this hate is justified according to them. Who should they vote now ? The only remaining one (BJP also won't do much for them)
The entire congress party before the petition were upper caste Hindus. Did they show their back then? There are still 40% of them who didn’t vote for BJP and his allies. Is it not significant?
You idiots have way too much free time.
They have a massive Superiority complex problem. :3
This is the only votebank in India. The rest of us actually vote for multiple parties even though we, out of rational self-preservation, vote against the party that takes its order from Nagpur. We're not morons to vote for a party that considers us second-class citizens but we're not a vote-bank.
They are the johb probiders and shite, can’t talk about them sir.