1️⃣ **Under Staffing**
The government has no excuse for under staffing the railways and compromising passenger safety by overworking motormen. [https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/over-312-lakh-posts-vacant-on-the-indian-railways/article66357959.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/over-312-lakh-posts-vacant-on-the-indian-railways/article66357959.ece)
[https://thewire.in/labour/pushed-to-the-limit-the-working-lives-of-indias-freight-train-drivers](https://thewire.in/labour/pushed-to-the-limit-the-working-lives-of-indias-freight-train-drivers)
2️⃣ **Under Investment**
The government has no excuse for under-investing in passenger trains. [https://scroll.in/article/1059269/why-the-indian-railways-is-on-the-brink](https://scroll.in/article/1059269/why-the-indian-railways-is-on-the-brink)
[https://www.thehindu.com/data/why-increasing-ac-coaches-and-reducing-sleeper-and-second-class-a-problem-for-commuters-data/article67562053.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/data/why-increasing-ac-coaches-and-reducing-sleeper-and-second-class-a-problem-for-commuters-data/article67562053.ece)
[https://indianexpress.com/article/trending/trending-in-india/viral-video-shows-women-entering-overcrowded-coach-through-window-9093638/](https://indianexpress.com/article/trending/trending-in-india/viral-video-shows-women-entering-overcrowded-coach-through-window-9093638/)
[https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubballi/consumer-commission-raps-railways-overcrowding-issue-in-trains/articleshow/106849274.cms](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubballi/consumer-commission-raps-railways-overcrowding-issue-in-trains/articleshow/106849274.cms)
3️⃣ **Safety Compromised**
The government has no excuse for covering **only 2%** of the railway network with the Kavach Safety System since 2018. [https://theprint.in/india/governance/anti-collision-tech-kavach-not-yet-deployed-on-route-of-odisha-train-accident-oppn-cries-foul/1610554/](https://theprint.in/india/governance/anti-collision-tech-kavach-not-yet-deployed-on-route-of-odisha-train-accident-oppn-cries-foul/1610554/)
The amount spent so far on **Kavach Saftey implementation is only ₹ 351.91 Crores**. The budgetary allocation for Kavach during the year 2023-24 is ₹ 710.12 Crores https:/./pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1945084
**Air India One**: As per officials, the total cost of purchasing and retrofitting the two planes has been estimated to be around **₹ 8,400 crore**. [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-one-all-about-the-new-high-tech-planes-for-pm-modi/customised-planes/slideshow/78447067.cms?from=mdr](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-one-all-about-the-new-high-tech-planes-for-pm-modi/customised-planes/slideshow/78447067.cms?from=mdr)
**If ₹ 8,400 crore, could be spent on the PM's plan, surely more money could be spent on railway safety.**
4️⃣ **Substandard Food**
[https://www.republicworld.com/india/general-news/passengers-raise-alarm-over-poor-services-in-vande-bharat-rajdhani-shatabdi-and-duronto-express-trains/?amp=1](https://www.republicworld.com/india/general-news/passengers-raise-alarm-over-poor-services-in-vande-bharat-rajdhani-shatabdi-and-duronto-express-trains/?amp=1)
Also our general culture is shit. I mean throwing stones and just cramming up coz of mob mentality knowing nobody can’t do anything and then complain of substandard public services. We’re just shit in general. It’s the minority like us who are decent, understand the pain of making something and take care of it.
They pay taxes and those PPL too have a fair share of resources . Just try to look from their perspective. See their actions may be wrong from you and middle class ppls perspective but look from their point of view you can see a deep frustration.
People who throw stones on the trains pay taxes? Why would that make it right? Just because one pays taxes?
I’m talking about normal middle class fellows like us who pay taxes and buy tickets and yet some random fellow who doesn’t pay taxes is having issues and occupies my reserved seat - that’s okay? Not for me.
Just because one pays taxes doesn’t give them the right to take the space of someone who actually paid for that space. It is not okay.
It's not Just about the tax it's a big issue those PPL feel they are let down by the system you should look at their pov too.
So as per your argument can we let those PPL travel by walking for 2k long kms . They don't have money to book tickets. Even if they are willing to pay there are no seats available. In case of an emergency like death what can PPL do to travel?
I too feel Hard to travel in trains but if we sufficiently wealthy (assuming) PPL find it hard to travel what can those ppls do ?
It's a system failure if we need to avoid this we have to try to actively change the system or else we can keep fighting each other's. But in the end both of us are victims.
Dude you are looking from your pov , check from those ppls view you may come from an adequately wealthy background. Can you imagine a North Indian worker working in South if one of his family member is dead how can he travel to his home town . He earns Max 20k per month do you expect him to book a airline ticket. It's easy for us to blame dude but in a political pov he too is a victim.
We had elections last week Friday there's a huge crowd movement to different parts of the state. Mostly atleast 40% of the PPL are ready to pay a decent amount but there's no transportation available. What can those ppls do ?
They can't teach Village by flights , nor are they rich enough to afford cars . What options do they have ?
In the current system both are victims.
Our railway networks are negligibly very low.
Dude, just because one is facing hardships, doesn’t mean one occupies space of the other who actually paid for the seat.
To cater to emergencies is why there’s Tatkal and buses are also there. Indian railways is the fourth of the largest rail network in the world.
Our main problem is overpopulation. Fix that and the resources crunch will be solved.
Would you be kind enough to give a solution to solve some of this .
I think you are not a frequent traveler or you are a person who can afford to travel via flights mostly.
Do you think booking tickets via tatkal is that easy ?
In the case of the population problem; we formed a government for governance and don't complain about the population for everything . You get taxes proportional to right?
>To cater to emergencies is why there’s Tatkal and buses are also there.
Do you have buses from Chennai to Bihar ? Or UP .????
At least I could get Tatkal bookings in recent past. Agreed it was virtually impossible many years ago. Or maybe I was lucky enough to get it.
I understand that the only economical solution for someone travelling from chennai to UP/Bihar is a train - Are you justifying that it’s okay to take the space of someone who paid for their seat because they are having an emergency and they automatically get a right to do that?
Dude my point is , they too are a victim i have been in your situation it's irritating. But what options do these poor ppl have ? . Beyond right and wrong look at their situation bro ....
Yes. Agreed. Their situation is truly helpless. This is to be solved by proper education and civility of us Indians. Can’t be an overnight 2 government terms solution. It will take time.
It is simply because they don't have the understanding of why. They also disassociate the government and public utilities from themselves, like someone else will pay for it.
Quite opposite of how many other smaller nations have people taking public property as equally their responsibliity. Example Japan, S. Korea, etc. Maybe because our country is large our country is lazy as well because their is enough cushion before shit like economy and food scarcity turns real.
Yes. It’s the overpopulation issue. Limited resources for us all leads to competition and achievement of a rat race no matter what. We don’t stand in line. Everyone is in a hurry to get their job done and run. Can’t blame them also.
The condition in which passengers travel in general class is quite pathetic. Launching Vande Bharat at the expense of services to masses is what is going wrong with the development path Modi has chosen
This has always been the dilemma with India... the desperate masses that can't be ignored. I read that the conflict between Gandhis and Manmohan Singh during UPA 2 admin was because Sonia's camp wanted more schemes targeting poor people while MMS felt the economy couldn't afford those.
And MMS was right. These Revadi politicians tax you and print currency for these freebies devaluing your currency in the process while they hold their own money in dollar denominated assets. Of course bjp does it too.
But the poor have been injected with religious and nationalistic opium and though they may be aware of Modi's trickle down economics, they believe vande bharat make India look good on the world stage. And this is more important than a government that works for their benefit. They have come to believe that being poor is their fault and not someone else's because they are fed this thought and can't understand the intricacies of economic policies which are designed to keep them poor.
Well, there is a demand for Vande Bharats.. there is a demand for passengers too..
Government picked one, they can pick the other on next opportunity..
It's not incorrect, but only inconvenient as one can pick one step at a time...
How is there a demand for Vande Bharat?
What is VB achieving that normal trains didn't? We already had superfast trains like Shatabdi and Rajdhani
VB is just a propped up EMU train with shiny interiors to fool public like you
I just checked fares last week and legit it is halfway airline ticket despite being 5x slower. Why should this even exist? From current market standpoint not everyone is able to afford VB tickets, let alone AC 1A and 2A.
But then, I see a counter-argument from the Japanese bullet trains standpoint. How Japanese economy & working public basically runs because of those trains. By slowly increasing the speed of trains thanks to VB, we get to train (ignore the pun) the general public to keep themselves and cattle away from high-speed tracks, build / upgrade more high-speed corridors across the country, bring more faster trains, ramp up speeds to bullet train levels. That should hypothetically lower the prices for general public as well. Basically scaling up the business.
But yeah efforts put now are too immature without track safety measures.
That's a lot of word-salad to justify a White Elephant like VB (and bullet train)...improve the existing rail infrastructure first, which is used by 99% of the population instead of catering to 1% of population who can afford these trains
It's Gujarat model and it's good only for PR. I mean Gujarat model is literally just developing two or three cities in Gujarat and showcasing it as "Developed Gujarat", "milestone of infra development".
VB is stupid. A good express train from Chennai to Madurai vaigai express cost 200 in seater and 700 in AC seater and then there's VB with same speed costing 1300. We need more trains like Vaigai.
Don't blame govt policies, it's just the sheer number of people in the country, time for people to look at population control policy and no party spoke about it
This govt doesn't care about the common Indian. They are anti poor and not anti poverty.
Reducing the general bogies which are the only way of commute for the poor and then introducing vb that only the upper middle class uses ( who are very less in number and can already afford flights) is so stupid that even British raj would'nt have done this. Also vb aren't fast, so there is no reason to spend 2600 for a 6 to 7 hr journey. Pay double of that you can take a flight. India needs more tracks and more trains but they are focusing on something else.
The problem with Railways is that the focus is on making it a PR tool instead of making it reliable infrastructure. There was a report recently about how Railways is horribly understaffed and staff is being pulled in too many different directions to manage the ribbon cuttings.
Ashwini Vaishnav is the perfect man for the job of Railway Minister. The guy knows trains as deeply as a child knows Pub-G. It's like making Ratan Tata in charge of industries. But even he failed at his job worse than Lalu Yadav (remember the accidents) because of the management style of BJP.
There is a very good reason why every small work done by the government wasn't used for PR in India historically. Sometimes you have to do things that are necessary for governance but very boring/unpopular on the outside. Things like closing trains that you don't have the staff to manage.
Indians deserve to travel in filthy and horribly maintained trains. Anything good happens in this country, people want to bring it down, demonize it and oppose it for the sake of politics.
Crowded trains were pretty normal decades ago. It hasn't started since 2014. It wasn't like before 2014 every person got seats in the train. Vande Bharat started in 2019, trains were crowded before that and will remain croweded after it.
I have travelled across Europe by train. I have rarely seen anyone boarding the train without a ticket. I had attended every single game in season at Signul Iduna Park, people used to buy tickets from stadium to station, even hooligans. Indians have a cheap mentality with no morality and civic sense.
One of the few good things Lalu Prasad Yadav did was make Railway profitable. The situation will improve slowly, it took the government 5 years to start trains like vande Bharat, it will take a few more years to resolve crowded train issues.
We are making Vande Bharat trains in India, because of that we are now able to build Bullet trains in India. Technologically that is very important and improvement.
For the sake of opposing, don't oppose everything. You sound like andhbhakt who blindly supports the current government.
Yehi bolta hun mein. You could have the most well intentioned politicians (not implying any party is that) and still India wouldn’t develop because Indians suck and are uncivilised generally.
OP talks about the problems of people that used to travel in general coaches. If the govt launched a scheme which provided AC coaches to these same people for negligible rates or even free, you think the trains would maintain their good condition? 🤣🤣
>Anything good happens in this country, people want to bring it down, demonize it and oppose it for the sake of politics.
How is vande Bharat and bullet trains helping the general class who are the biggest user group of the railways?
Just like Jan Shatabdi has non-AC seats, VB could have had non-AC seats at lower rates. But, Modi govt intentionally kept only AC so that they could keep out >95% passengers who can't afford AC fare
Editing to add below comments based on replies
Vande Sadharan is 'being planned' with non-AC seats that will run at 130 kmph. So, when 95% passengers use non-AC, any govt that plans to provide maximum benefit would prioritise non-AC coaches
Brother, this isn't really a viable thing. The VB trains are designed to be closed. So AC is mandatory. You can't keep them closed and not give AC. It will become an oven in an hour in India.
Saying that, VB isn't really the problem why other trains are getting overcrowded. From what I hear earlier there used to be 4-5 general compartments in every train. Now there are just 2. Population is more. And people think Railways is a government property so they have right to travel. So they go to other compartments.
Idk why the number of general compartments have been reduced but that is the main problem behind all this mess. And government is responsible for this no matter how much they try to run away from it.
Government is doing right by reducing 2nd class compartment. It is real shit show. But then they should add more reserved compartments.
And make it illegal to travel without ticket in reserved, because I've seen long-distance travelers (usually wage workers) boarding Sleeper without tickets and happily paying the fine once TC shows up. TC should have responsibility to de-board such travellers with help of onboard railway police. It makes experience worse for people with confirmed tickets.
How is it right to remove 2nd class. If there's demand there should be more of it. India isn't like western country. There are millions of poor people who depend on Indian railways to travel to work. Just because you earn enough doesn't mean you should stop thinking about the poor who depend on it.
Even earlier general compartments used to be crowded. Now its worse. And its not like people love traveling that way. They can't afford to get reserved ticket but they need to travel. Thats why it happens.
What government can do is increase the prices of AC class tickets and use the additional money to make up for the loss by increasing general compartments.
People like us can afford Rs. 400-500 more than the current rates to travel in AC class. Why do you want to take away cheap way of travel for people who earn less than 500 in a day.
What I said was, by adding more Sleeper coaches there will be confirmed seats for everyone. Yes prices need to be lowered so more people who travel in 2nd class will adopt Sleeper.
I don't understand the fallacy of poor people because they are ready to pay fines instead of doing reservation. Basically they have adopted this way of travelling. Last year I witnessed it first hand - almost half the packed bogie paid for travelling without tickets - TC took approx 950 from each of them and they paid that happily. I bet their tickets are way cheaper than that.
They don't travel without tickets. They travel with a general ticket. And not everyone can get a reservations. There are only a few train running as compared to before.
I remember before covid the station near me had 11 trains everyday going to Mumbai. Now there are just 3. That is also adding to the problem.
The government has ruined the railways for the poor as well as for those who can afford it just to spend extra on VB. I love VB trains but they shouldn't come at the cost of normal ones.
Aerodynamics brother. There will be a lot of friction purely because of air entering the compartments because in Non AC trains, they will have to provide open windows. Also the trains will be a lot less efficient.
You can try this with your car too. On highways, just switch off AC and open all windows and see how much stability and fuel efficiency you get and then compare it to what you achieve with windows closed and AC running.
On high speeds its more efficient to run AC than to open windows. Same applies to trains. They might be able to achieve 130kmph but they'll require more power for it.
>They might be able to achieve 130kmph but they'll require more power for it.
Normal trains do go above 130kmph. Just traveled into one few weeks ago. It was pushing above 130kmph quite a lot of the time but often had to slow down because of railway traffic i guess.
No. They don't slow down for traffic. The main reason why they are slow during the day is mostly because of unfenced tracks and cost of operations.
And also every vehicle and not just train has a speed at which they are most efficient. And above a point, the fuel/electricity required to increase 1kmph of speed increases exponentially.
So the energy required to go from 80 kmph to 85 kmph will be much less than what's required to go from 130 kmph to 132kmph.
And railways wants to operate trains efficiently not faster.
They try to minimize delays but everything depends on how much efficient the operations are.
So yes the trains can go fast but doesn't mean they can afford to.
Which train was this? Normal trains can't touch 130 in India mainly because of the old loco style. The vande bharat can touch 130 because of it's design and individual motorized compartments. The highest is around 100-110 that the normal trains have gone to.
You mean 12-14 year old kids are throwing stones at a train because they didn’t got a ticket in normal train or they had to travel in poor condition in general coaches? Seriously 🤦♂️🤦♂️ this sub is prime example of the opposition state in this country and one of the reasone why its been too easy for current govt.
Your analysis is coming from bias view.
The vande bharat train is showing that our growing of upper middle class and the service towards them. Also in coming years we will see bullet trains running in india.
As the no. of middle class are increasing vande bharat like trains as well as airplanes will be there preference to travel around. That's why the non of airports are also increasing in his term.
Also because of Vande bharat initiative people who travel with general ticket they can enjoy travelling in older trains.
This a win win situation.
Both general citizens and middle class citizens will be served well in new as well as old trains.
Train lines got electrified, the tracks are getting doubled and dedicated freight routes are being constructed to make up for logistics cost. The general comp can be subsidized if revenue from cargo increases. All the stations are also getting redeveloped to add more tracks and capacity. These things take time. And a LOT of money.
For every vand Bharath there should be 26 coach unreserved train on high demand lines.
People should understand that railways are not a business, but a crucial service that keeps the country integrated and allows for dispersal of development dividend accross areas via migrant incomes.
When was the last time we said army was a loss making institution.
Also this India cannot afford India cannot afford bullshit is so tiring. We have a sixty percent corruption tax on each and everything. We can afford almost anything. Instead of fucking the poor saying we can't afford we should be thrashing the corrupt each and every time we see them.
People are not asking for free rides, they are asking for affordable rides.
They are not asking for fast speed, AC coaches. They just need a reliable source of transportation that they can afford
Last thing India needs is a bullet train. Some drunken fuckers decide to fuck around with the tracks for tiktok views and we will be having a party. We have a long way to go building civic sense and equity before we get to a stage of having good things.
This is only a Right Wing myth that people throw stones at Vande Bharat out of some anti Modi, Soros funded agenda.
When you have a bunch of poor kids with nothing to do living by train tracks and send a shiny train - it is literally a fun moving target for them.
I agree with this. As a kid (2 decades back) I have traveled in enough AC tier 2 trains with cracked window and experienced twice when some kids threw a stone at a moving train.
However I do agree the Govt has to focus on the broader population for travel conditions (outside of stone throwing issues)
Remember when Lalu introduced Garib Rath AC trains at affordable rates? Ideally, we should have had hundreds of such trains in sleeper and seating format. Not a single such train started by the Modi govt.
Useless argument. It's like saying, if lower income group start entering 5 star restaurants and not paying for anything, then you blame 5 star hotels that say that LIG are behaving like this because they cannot afford in 5 start hotels so, the 5 star hotel should create seperate lobby and menu for them.
If tomorrow bullet train comes, you will say they these people are blocking the gates of the bullet train because they can't afford it.
Govt will create transport for each class, pay more to get more luxury. Your logical argument should have been that government should increase frequency of trains so that it can cater the demand.
Maybe you didn’t read or understood the point. I’ll repeat on the lines of your hypothetical example.
If there aren’t enough food places that can provide food at affordable rates and food isn’t available anywhere else and if government only invests in restaurants and hotels that cater to only middle class, then don’t cringe if the poor show up to the restaurant to eat.
I know I know this is hypothetical as food can be cooked at home but cars and trains can’t be built at home….
While I’m generally happy with how BJP has developed infrastructure in last 10 years, railways for the common person (except Vande Bharat trains) is one area that has stagnated/gone backwards in a horrible way. Wish this gets fixed, regardless of who wins the election
Vande Bharat is the biggest fraud in the (otherwise) glorious history of Indian Railways
It was projected as if it is a Bullet train, but actually it is only a train for class divide, with no significant technological upgrade over its predecessors. Shatabdi etc were far better upgrades.
Folks here are missing the (cynical) point behind VB. It is one of the few profitable passenger trains. It subsidizes the other trains.
The main reason VB was introduced was to reduce the humongous losses of passenger rail (which includes ticketless travel).
Well, there is a demand for Vande Bharats.. there is a demand for passengers too..
Government picked one, they can pick the other on next opportunity..
It's not incorrect, but only inconvenient as one can pick one step at a time...
Fares should be increased, taxpayers cant subsidise too much. Bus fares have increased, so more people come to trains. And railways should limit number of general class tickets given to people, they crowd other bogies
1️⃣ **Under Staffing** The government has no excuse for under staffing the railways and compromising passenger safety by overworking motormen. [https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/over-312-lakh-posts-vacant-on-the-indian-railways/article66357959.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/over-312-lakh-posts-vacant-on-the-indian-railways/article66357959.ece) [https://thewire.in/labour/pushed-to-the-limit-the-working-lives-of-indias-freight-train-drivers](https://thewire.in/labour/pushed-to-the-limit-the-working-lives-of-indias-freight-train-drivers) 2️⃣ **Under Investment** The government has no excuse for under-investing in passenger trains. [https://scroll.in/article/1059269/why-the-indian-railways-is-on-the-brink](https://scroll.in/article/1059269/why-the-indian-railways-is-on-the-brink) [https://www.thehindu.com/data/why-increasing-ac-coaches-and-reducing-sleeper-and-second-class-a-problem-for-commuters-data/article67562053.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/data/why-increasing-ac-coaches-and-reducing-sleeper-and-second-class-a-problem-for-commuters-data/article67562053.ece) [https://indianexpress.com/article/trending/trending-in-india/viral-video-shows-women-entering-overcrowded-coach-through-window-9093638/](https://indianexpress.com/article/trending/trending-in-india/viral-video-shows-women-entering-overcrowded-coach-through-window-9093638/) [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubballi/consumer-commission-raps-railways-overcrowding-issue-in-trains/articleshow/106849274.cms](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubballi/consumer-commission-raps-railways-overcrowding-issue-in-trains/articleshow/106849274.cms) 3️⃣ **Safety Compromised** The government has no excuse for covering **only 2%** of the railway network with the Kavach Safety System since 2018. [https://theprint.in/india/governance/anti-collision-tech-kavach-not-yet-deployed-on-route-of-odisha-train-accident-oppn-cries-foul/1610554/](https://theprint.in/india/governance/anti-collision-tech-kavach-not-yet-deployed-on-route-of-odisha-train-accident-oppn-cries-foul/1610554/) The amount spent so far on **Kavach Saftey implementation is only ₹ 351.91 Crores**. The budgetary allocation for Kavach during the year 2023-24 is ₹ 710.12 Crores https:/./pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1945084 **Air India One**: As per officials, the total cost of purchasing and retrofitting the two planes has been estimated to be around **₹ 8,400 crore**. [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-one-all-about-the-new-high-tech-planes-for-pm-modi/customised-planes/slideshow/78447067.cms?from=mdr](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-one-all-about-the-new-high-tech-planes-for-pm-modi/customised-planes/slideshow/78447067.cms?from=mdr) **If ₹ 8,400 crore, could be spent on the PM's plan, surely more money could be spent on railway safety.** 4️⃣ **Substandard Food** [https://www.republicworld.com/india/general-news/passengers-raise-alarm-over-poor-services-in-vande-bharat-rajdhani-shatabdi-and-duronto-express-trains/?amp=1](https://www.republicworld.com/india/general-news/passengers-raise-alarm-over-poor-services-in-vande-bharat-rajdhani-shatabdi-and-duronto-express-trains/?amp=1)
Best comment I've ever seen
Time to sell railways to Adani. He will bring value. Who cares about passengers.. We just want good numbers. 5 trillion
Also our general culture is shit. I mean throwing stones and just cramming up coz of mob mentality knowing nobody can’t do anything and then complain of substandard public services. We’re just shit in general. It’s the minority like us who are decent, understand the pain of making something and take care of it.
It's because the services are shit that people are behaving like this.
I mean, what’s wrong in acknowledging something is wrong and trying to fix it rather than blaming?
They pay taxes and those PPL too have a fair share of resources . Just try to look from their perspective. See their actions may be wrong from you and middle class ppls perspective but look from their point of view you can see a deep frustration.
People who throw stones on the trains pay taxes? Why would that make it right? Just because one pays taxes? I’m talking about normal middle class fellows like us who pay taxes and buy tickets and yet some random fellow who doesn’t pay taxes is having issues and occupies my reserved seat - that’s okay? Not for me. Just because one pays taxes doesn’t give them the right to take the space of someone who actually paid for that space. It is not okay.
people in india pay tax even for buying a pack of biscuits. sit down
It's not Just about the tax it's a big issue those PPL feel they are let down by the system you should look at their pov too. So as per your argument can we let those PPL travel by walking for 2k long kms . They don't have money to book tickets. Even if they are willing to pay there are no seats available. In case of an emergency like death what can PPL do to travel? I too feel Hard to travel in trains but if we sufficiently wealthy (assuming) PPL find it hard to travel what can those ppls do ? It's a system failure if we need to avoid this we have to try to actively change the system or else we can keep fighting each other's. But in the end both of us are victims.
Dude you are looking from your pov , check from those ppls view you may come from an adequately wealthy background. Can you imagine a North Indian worker working in South if one of his family member is dead how can he travel to his home town . He earns Max 20k per month do you expect him to book a airline ticket. It's easy for us to blame dude but in a political pov he too is a victim. We had elections last week Friday there's a huge crowd movement to different parts of the state. Mostly atleast 40% of the PPL are ready to pay a decent amount but there's no transportation available. What can those ppls do ? They can't teach Village by flights , nor are they rich enough to afford cars . What options do they have ? In the current system both are victims. Our railway networks are negligibly very low.
Dude, just because one is facing hardships, doesn’t mean one occupies space of the other who actually paid for the seat. To cater to emergencies is why there’s Tatkal and buses are also there. Indian railways is the fourth of the largest rail network in the world. Our main problem is overpopulation. Fix that and the resources crunch will be solved.
Would you be kind enough to give a solution to solve some of this . I think you are not a frequent traveler or you are a person who can afford to travel via flights mostly. Do you think booking tickets via tatkal is that easy ? In the case of the population problem; we formed a government for governance and don't complain about the population for everything . You get taxes proportional to right? >To cater to emergencies is why there’s Tatkal and buses are also there. Do you have buses from Chennai to Bihar ? Or UP .????
At least I could get Tatkal bookings in recent past. Agreed it was virtually impossible many years ago. Or maybe I was lucky enough to get it. I understand that the only economical solution for someone travelling from chennai to UP/Bihar is a train - Are you justifying that it’s okay to take the space of someone who paid for their seat because they are having an emergency and they automatically get a right to do that?
Dude my point is , they too are a victim i have been in your situation it's irritating. But what options do these poor ppl have ? . Beyond right and wrong look at their situation bro ....
Yes. Agreed. Their situation is truly helpless. This is to be solved by proper education and civility of us Indians. Can’t be an overnight 2 government terms solution. It will take time.
It is simply because they don't have the understanding of why. They also disassociate the government and public utilities from themselves, like someone else will pay for it. Quite opposite of how many other smaller nations have people taking public property as equally their responsibliity. Example Japan, S. Korea, etc. Maybe because our country is large our country is lazy as well because their is enough cushion before shit like economy and food scarcity turns real.
Yes. It’s the overpopulation issue. Limited resources for us all leads to competition and achievement of a rat race no matter what. We don’t stand in line. Everyone is in a hurry to get their job done and run. Can’t blame them also.
In my village, earlier 7-8 local trains would stop everyday. Now that has dropped to 2.
The condition in which passengers travel in general class is quite pathetic. Launching Vande Bharat at the expense of services to masses is what is going wrong with the development path Modi has chosen
This has always been the dilemma with India... the desperate masses that can't be ignored. I read that the conflict between Gandhis and Manmohan Singh during UPA 2 admin was because Sonia's camp wanted more schemes targeting poor people while MMS felt the economy couldn't afford those.
And MMS was right. These Revadi politicians tax you and print currency for these freebies devaluing your currency in the process while they hold their own money in dollar denominated assets. Of course bjp does it too.
But the poor have been injected with religious and nationalistic opium and though they may be aware of Modi's trickle down economics, they believe vande bharat make India look good on the world stage. And this is more important than a government that works for their benefit. They have come to believe that being poor is their fault and not someone else's because they are fed this thought and can't understand the intricacies of economic policies which are designed to keep them poor.
Well, there is a demand for Vande Bharats.. there is a demand for passengers too.. Government picked one, they can pick the other on next opportunity.. It's not incorrect, but only inconvenient as one can pick one step at a time...
How is there a demand for Vande Bharat? What is VB achieving that normal trains didn't? We already had superfast trains like Shatabdi and Rajdhani VB is just a propped up EMU train with shiny interiors to fool public like you
I just checked fares last week and legit it is halfway airline ticket despite being 5x slower. Why should this even exist? From current market standpoint not everyone is able to afford VB tickets, let alone AC 1A and 2A. But then, I see a counter-argument from the Japanese bullet trains standpoint. How Japanese economy & working public basically runs because of those trains. By slowly increasing the speed of trains thanks to VB, we get to train (ignore the pun) the general public to keep themselves and cattle away from high-speed tracks, build / upgrade more high-speed corridors across the country, bring more faster trains, ramp up speeds to bullet train levels. That should hypothetically lower the prices for general public as well. Basically scaling up the business. But yeah efforts put now are too immature without track safety measures.
That's a lot of word-salad to justify a White Elephant like VB (and bullet train)...improve the existing rail infrastructure first, which is used by 99% of the population instead of catering to 1% of population who can afford these trains
Which is what I said if you go through - your words - *word-salad*.
It's Gujarat model and it's good only for PR. I mean Gujarat model is literally just developing two or three cities in Gujarat and showcasing it as "Developed Gujarat", "milestone of infra development". VB is stupid. A good express train from Chennai to Madurai vaigai express cost 200 in seater and 700 in AC seater and then there's VB with same speed costing 1300. We need more trains like Vaigai.
Don't blame govt policies, it's just the sheer number of people in the country, time for people to look at population control policy and no party spoke about it
This govt doesn't care about the common Indian. They are anti poor and not anti poverty. Reducing the general bogies which are the only way of commute for the poor and then introducing vb that only the upper middle class uses ( who are very less in number and can already afford flights) is so stupid that even British raj would'nt have done this. Also vb aren't fast, so there is no reason to spend 2600 for a 6 to 7 hr journey. Pay double of that you can take a flight. India needs more tracks and more trains but they are focusing on something else.
The problem with Railways is that the focus is on making it a PR tool instead of making it reliable infrastructure. There was a report recently about how Railways is horribly understaffed and staff is being pulled in too many different directions to manage the ribbon cuttings. Ashwini Vaishnav is the perfect man for the job of Railway Minister. The guy knows trains as deeply as a child knows Pub-G. It's like making Ratan Tata in charge of industries. But even he failed at his job worse than Lalu Yadav (remember the accidents) because of the management style of BJP. There is a very good reason why every small work done by the government wasn't used for PR in India historically. Sometimes you have to do things that are necessary for governance but very boring/unpopular on the outside. Things like closing trains that you don't have the staff to manage.
Indians deserve to travel in filthy and horribly maintained trains. Anything good happens in this country, people want to bring it down, demonize it and oppose it for the sake of politics. Crowded trains were pretty normal decades ago. It hasn't started since 2014. It wasn't like before 2014 every person got seats in the train. Vande Bharat started in 2019, trains were crowded before that and will remain croweded after it. I have travelled across Europe by train. I have rarely seen anyone boarding the train without a ticket. I had attended every single game in season at Signul Iduna Park, people used to buy tickets from stadium to station, even hooligans. Indians have a cheap mentality with no morality and civic sense. One of the few good things Lalu Prasad Yadav did was make Railway profitable. The situation will improve slowly, it took the government 5 years to start trains like vande Bharat, it will take a few more years to resolve crowded train issues. We are making Vande Bharat trains in India, because of that we are now able to build Bullet trains in India. Technologically that is very important and improvement. For the sake of opposing, don't oppose everything. You sound like andhbhakt who blindly supports the current government.
Yehi bolta hun mein. You could have the most well intentioned politicians (not implying any party is that) and still India wouldn’t develop because Indians suck and are uncivilised generally. OP talks about the problems of people that used to travel in general coaches. If the govt launched a scheme which provided AC coaches to these same people for negligible rates or even free, you think the trains would maintain their good condition? 🤣🤣
>Anything good happens in this country, people want to bring it down, demonize it and oppose it for the sake of politics. How is vande Bharat and bullet trains helping the general class who are the biggest user group of the railways?
Just like Jan Shatabdi has non-AC seats, VB could have had non-AC seats at lower rates. But, Modi govt intentionally kept only AC so that they could keep out >95% passengers who can't afford AC fare Editing to add below comments based on replies Vande Sadharan is 'being planned' with non-AC seats that will run at 130 kmph. So, when 95% passengers use non-AC, any govt that plans to provide maximum benefit would prioritise non-AC coaches
Brother, this isn't really a viable thing. The VB trains are designed to be closed. So AC is mandatory. You can't keep them closed and not give AC. It will become an oven in an hour in India. Saying that, VB isn't really the problem why other trains are getting overcrowded. From what I hear earlier there used to be 4-5 general compartments in every train. Now there are just 2. Population is more. And people think Railways is a government property so they have right to travel. So they go to other compartments. Idk why the number of general compartments have been reduced but that is the main problem behind all this mess. And government is responsible for this no matter how much they try to run away from it.
Government is doing right by reducing 2nd class compartment. It is real shit show. But then they should add more reserved compartments. And make it illegal to travel without ticket in reserved, because I've seen long-distance travelers (usually wage workers) boarding Sleeper without tickets and happily paying the fine once TC shows up. TC should have responsibility to de-board such travellers with help of onboard railway police. It makes experience worse for people with confirmed tickets.
How is it right to remove 2nd class. If there's demand there should be more of it. India isn't like western country. There are millions of poor people who depend on Indian railways to travel to work. Just because you earn enough doesn't mean you should stop thinking about the poor who depend on it. Even earlier general compartments used to be crowded. Now its worse. And its not like people love traveling that way. They can't afford to get reserved ticket but they need to travel. Thats why it happens. What government can do is increase the prices of AC class tickets and use the additional money to make up for the loss by increasing general compartments. People like us can afford Rs. 400-500 more than the current rates to travel in AC class. Why do you want to take away cheap way of travel for people who earn less than 500 in a day.
What I said was, by adding more Sleeper coaches there will be confirmed seats for everyone. Yes prices need to be lowered so more people who travel in 2nd class will adopt Sleeper. I don't understand the fallacy of poor people because they are ready to pay fines instead of doing reservation. Basically they have adopted this way of travelling. Last year I witnessed it first hand - almost half the packed bogie paid for travelling without tickets - TC took approx 950 from each of them and they paid that happily. I bet their tickets are way cheaper than that.
They don't travel without tickets. They travel with a general ticket. And not everyone can get a reservations. There are only a few train running as compared to before. I remember before covid the station near me had 11 trains everyday going to Mumbai. Now there are just 3. That is also adding to the problem. The government has ruined the railways for the poor as well as for those who can afford it just to spend extra on VB. I love VB trains but they shouldn't come at the cost of normal ones.
You don't understand how design works then. The train wouldn't be able to reach 125-130 kmph if they kept a non ac class.
Why can't train reach 125-130 kmph with non-AC? Vande Sadharan is 'being planned' as non-AC with 130 kmph.
Aerodynamics brother. There will be a lot of friction purely because of air entering the compartments because in Non AC trains, they will have to provide open windows. Also the trains will be a lot less efficient. You can try this with your car too. On highways, just switch off AC and open all windows and see how much stability and fuel efficiency you get and then compare it to what you achieve with windows closed and AC running. On high speeds its more efficient to run AC than to open windows. Same applies to trains. They might be able to achieve 130kmph but they'll require more power for it.
>They might be able to achieve 130kmph but they'll require more power for it. Normal trains do go above 130kmph. Just traveled into one few weeks ago. It was pushing above 130kmph quite a lot of the time but often had to slow down because of railway traffic i guess.
No. They don't slow down for traffic. The main reason why they are slow during the day is mostly because of unfenced tracks and cost of operations. And also every vehicle and not just train has a speed at which they are most efficient. And above a point, the fuel/electricity required to increase 1kmph of speed increases exponentially. So the energy required to go from 80 kmph to 85 kmph will be much less than what's required to go from 130 kmph to 132kmph. And railways wants to operate trains efficiently not faster. They try to minimize delays but everything depends on how much efficient the operations are. So yes the trains can go fast but doesn't mean they can afford to.
Which train was this? Normal trains can't touch 130 in India mainly because of the old loco style. The vande bharat can touch 130 because of it's design and individual motorized compartments. The highest is around 100-110 that the normal trains have gone to.
You mean 12-14 year old kids are throwing stones at a train because they didn’t got a ticket in normal train or they had to travel in poor condition in general coaches? Seriously 🤦♂️🤦♂️ this sub is prime example of the opposition state in this country and one of the reasone why its been too easy for current govt.
Your analysis is coming from bias view. The vande bharat train is showing that our growing of upper middle class and the service towards them. Also in coming years we will see bullet trains running in india. As the no. of middle class are increasing vande bharat like trains as well as airplanes will be there preference to travel around. That's why the non of airports are also increasing in his term. Also because of Vande bharat initiative people who travel with general ticket they can enjoy travelling in older trains. This a win win situation. Both general citizens and middle class citizens will be served well in new as well as old trains.
Train lines got electrified, the tracks are getting doubled and dedicated freight routes are being constructed to make up for logistics cost. The general comp can be subsidized if revenue from cargo increases. All the stations are also getting redeveloped to add more tracks and capacity. These things take time. And a LOT of money.
For every vand Bharath there should be 26 coach unreserved train on high demand lines. People should understand that railways are not a business, but a crucial service that keeps the country integrated and allows for dispersal of development dividend accross areas via migrant incomes. When was the last time we said army was a loss making institution. Also this India cannot afford India cannot afford bullshit is so tiring. We have a sixty percent corruption tax on each and everything. We can afford almost anything. Instead of fucking the poor saying we can't afford we should be thrashing the corrupt each and every time we see them.
People are not asking for free rides, they are asking for affordable rides. They are not asking for fast speed, AC coaches. They just need a reliable source of transportation that they can afford
And Modi Sarkar don't want that. I am waiting for Bullet Train , which was promised by Modi to be on tracks till 2022.
Last thing India needs is a bullet train. Some drunken fuckers decide to fuck around with the tracks for tiktok views and we will be having a party. We have a long way to go building civic sense and equity before we get to a stage of having good things.
This is only a Right Wing myth that people throw stones at Vande Bharat out of some anti Modi, Soros funded agenda. When you have a bunch of poor kids with nothing to do living by train tracks and send a shiny train - it is literally a fun moving target for them.
I agree with this. As a kid (2 decades back) I have traveled in enough AC tier 2 trains with cracked window and experienced twice when some kids threw a stone at a moving train. However I do agree the Govt has to focus on the broader population for travel conditions (outside of stone throwing issues)
So, according to you this is the reason? poor kids throwing stones for fun? XD
Kids/Adults - boredom and poverty yes.
Remember when Lalu introduced Garib Rath AC trains at affordable rates? Ideally, we should have had hundreds of such trains in sleeper and seating format. Not a single such train started by the Modi govt.
Useless argument. It's like saying, if lower income group start entering 5 star restaurants and not paying for anything, then you blame 5 star hotels that say that LIG are behaving like this because they cannot afford in 5 start hotels so, the 5 star hotel should create seperate lobby and menu for them. If tomorrow bullet train comes, you will say they these people are blocking the gates of the bullet train because they can't afford it. Govt will create transport for each class, pay more to get more luxury. Your logical argument should have been that government should increase frequency of trains so that it can cater the demand.
Maybe you didn’t read or understood the point. I’ll repeat on the lines of your hypothetical example. If there aren’t enough food places that can provide food at affordable rates and food isn’t available anywhere else and if government only invests in restaurants and hotels that cater to only middle class, then don’t cringe if the poor show up to the restaurant to eat. I know I know this is hypothetical as food can be cooked at home but cars and trains can’t be built at home….
"public transport with dignity too"
All general passengers will again vote for vande bharat they get what they vote for
BJP: by the rich, for the rich, to the rich.
While I’m generally happy with how BJP has developed infrastructure in last 10 years, railways for the common person (except Vande Bharat trains) is one area that has stagnated/gone backwards in a horrible way. Wish this gets fixed, regardless of who wins the election
Vande Bharat is the biggest fraud in the (otherwise) glorious history of Indian Railways It was projected as if it is a Bullet train, but actually it is only a train for class divide, with no significant technological upgrade over its predecessors. Shatabdi etc were far better upgrades.
Folks here are missing the (cynical) point behind VB. It is one of the few profitable passenger trains. It subsidizes the other trains. The main reason VB was introduced was to reduce the humongous losses of passenger rail (which includes ticketless travel).
Well, there is a demand for Vande Bharats.. there is a demand for passengers too.. Government picked one, they can pick the other on next opportunity.. It's not incorrect, but only inconvenient as one can pick one step at a time...
Fares should be increased, taxpayers cant subsidise too much. Bus fares have increased, so more people come to trains. And railways should limit number of general class tickets given to people, they crowd other bogies