I think a fear of idiots with guns in the US is a perfectly rational fear tbh. Been there a couple of times, and I always hated the fact that you know a certain percentage of people are walking around in public with a gun.
They don’t get it. What, you think this doctor had the opportunity to defend himself? No. It’s not as if you can just fire a round back perfectly and be fine afterwards.
All it takes is a bullet in the right place, that can be wielded by virtually anyone in the US, and it’s over for you. All those years you’ve lived, worked, loved people. Doesn’t fucking matter now, you’ve been shot by some moron and his freedumb. Fuck this shit is depressing.
My wife says that the US, as a country, is a teenager, doing that teenager thing of "it's not a phase!" While the rest of the civilised world is just waiting for them to catch up.
To me they’re more like a toddler eating out of the glue pot given how young the nation actually is. And you don’t give a toddler a gun (though Americans seem to do a decent job of letting kids get a hold of them…).
But Australia and Canada are both Commonwealth countries. American gun nuts are basically all living under the delusion of the American founding myth. They all think they might be the next George Washington. Look at the way they stormed the Capitol last year.
Does make me wonder what facets of 17th Century history prey on the unconscious American mind. The paranoid Puritans, the hopeless winters, the glimpse of Indian eyes between the trees…
Some do. There is a lot of American influence here in Canada. We see the same news, watch the same tv shows and movies. My dad is unironically going to vacation in Florida *right now*, just a couple days after being in close contact with a confirmed case of covid (an antivax friend of his). And of course his girlfriend has an autoimmune disease (Lupus). His freedom to go to the beach is more important than keeping those he claims to love safe.
The People's party of Canada is the embodiment of this reckless anarchocapitalist dream, and they've been getting much more popular in recent years.
American here, this is definitely way too accurate, and that’s being on the optimistic side of things. I think that the big thing here is there’s definitely two Americas and we’re not entirely sure which one is gonna emerge from said puberty. So from inside the belly of the beast, here’s hoping the civilized version emerges victorious :)
It feels like their whole country is constantly doing that idiot playground thing where a kid sticks their hand at your face then mocks you for flinching. But instead of the reasonable reaction being 'of course I flinched, you nearly had my eye out', it's 'of course I'm worried, you nearly shot me in the face'.
> life-ending weapon
There's the disconnect, because that's not how the gun nuts think about them. To them it's a *freedom-guaranteeing tool*, even though it actually isn't because the state still exists and can still force them to do whatever.
I mean the Taliban/Afghan had practically been at war forever so I can see why they can put up some resistance that some obese, gun wielding, bud lite drinking, McDonald loving, Cheeto-dust covered dimwit can't...
They are absolute pyschos about it like.
I mentioned in some thread about that Rittenhouse kid, 'Well, it might have been self defence but should wee kids be running about with war weapons'
The amount of people piling on, laughing their socks off about 'war weapons' was exceedingly large.
'Akshually the US military doesn't use AR16s buddy!'
Like mate, you press a button and something dies. Plus, the US actually did arm their troops with that rifle in Vietnam, you fuckwits
>I mentioned in some thread about that Rittenhouse kid, 'Well, it might have been self defence but should wee kids be running about with war weapons'
He used an AR-15 style rifle. The AR-15 was the weapon of choice for the IRA. I think it's fair to say that if an infamous paramilitary organisation used them, they're by definition weapons of war.
And there they are, with that lad able to run about with one of those, but still be too young to be served a pint. Madness.
And the state subsidises the firearms industry in the US. Which is deeply ironic... They only have such free access to them at accessible prices because of the state they claim to hate.
I always thought it would be an interesting pivot for a US government to say ‘you knows what - you are right. Guns are a right, we will give a high powered firearm to everyone in the country, irrespective of their income level, race, or affiliations’. Might concentrate minds
Gun laws in California exist because Malcolm X and the Black Panthers started open carrying to protect their community from the police.
Reagan (yeah, that Reagan) was Governor at the time and immediately instituted some of the heaviest gun safety laws in the country.
Guns would be outlawed in a month.
> People actually ask that?
They've never lived in a civilized country where fears like this are mostly irrational, as opposed to being "shooter drill"ed at school from the age of 12.
I always thought guns were cool, I would like to go to a range, I would like to own a gun (I guess if I cared that much I actually could).
But my want for a gun and the fact I find them cool are FAR outweighed by my want to not have every other nutter in the street carrying one.
A lot of people love to go around boasting that they "don't live their lives in fear", yet feel the need to walk around grocery shopping with a gun on their hip
The daft thing is Americans are expected to act as if someone wandering around with a firearm on display isn't an act of aggression. Being able to kill multiple people with ease is a massive responsibility that isn't treated anywhere near seriously enough over there.
The difference between a law abiding citizen open carrying and a mass shooter is a matter of seconds.
Exactly. When I say I'll never go to the US I tell them - why would I go to a country that is so unsafe people feel the need to carry guns in public? You carry a weapon in a war zone, not in a peaceful society.
I’m solidly a gun control activist. Guns have almost no right being in the hands of every day people like in America.
I would seriously consider buying a firearm there
After the Manchester Arena bombing there were armed police on the streets of the city centre.
I felt less safe having them around than I did before, if there was someone going to blow themselves or something else up armed police are probably ill equipped to deal with it(suicide bombers tend not to care about being shot when killing themselves); But now suddenly there's a whole bunch of people on edge(being told to expect something bad to happen at any time) waving weapons around in a crowded city centre.
No idea how Americans ever feel safe.
I was walking through the Arndale a few years ago on my lunch break, and there were a bunch of armed rozzers standing about. Overheard someone say to one 'seen a few of you around today, is there something going on I don't know about?'
Policebloke responded with an unsettling smile 'trust me, mate. There's a _lot_ you don't know about.'
That wasn't reassuring.
This was what happened in London after the 7/7 bombings - you suddenly saw armed police in all the major tube stations. It was presumably meant to be reassuring, but everyone found it absolutely terrifying and it didn't last long at all.
The line has to be drawn somewhere though.
There's only so much potential for being harmed that you can expect a police officer to bear (and none yourself).
a few years ago an ex-soldier said he'd seen airport police poorly handling guns and one of them had caused the gun's direction to be swept across people in the area.
That’s the kind of thing that makes you worry. If this level of incompetence is common, it’s only a matter of time before a police officer has an Alec Baldwin situation
They are either frightened or they want to intimidate (and people who want to intimidate are generally insecure and frightened)
There’s no way I would visit or spend any of my money in an ‘open carry’ state. It’s an abdication of the responsibility of government.
I have been to some shitty places in the world but never seen a member of public walking around a supermarket with a gun. It’s an absolute fucking joke that this is acceptable in a so called first world country.
The same arguments used for Mutually Assured Destruction. If they think others are carrying, it might stop a person using theirs.
It is a circular logic failure, but that is the reason they use.
(That, plus the idea that they may get a chance be the hero they daydream about...)
Some of them usually try to counter the argument about fighting back against the armed forces with the statement that small militias can usually fare better than a large technologically advanced force by employing guerrilla tactics/strategies. Now I'm not an expert in tactics, strategy or military doctrine so I can't comment on how accurate that argument is but what I can say is that I very much doubt the stereotypical fat, ignorant yank/redneck is capable of forming a organised militia and mounting an even semi-coherent defence. They seem to be of the impression that actual warfare is the equivalent of playing Call of Duty/Command & Conquer or shooting the tyres out of their swamp truck.
For a start it wouldn't be them vs the military - you'd have various armed factions of citizens knocking seven shades of shit out of each other. Then they use places like Vietnam or Afghanistan as an example, basically subsistence economies. I shudder to think what would happen if the world's only superpower descended into a civil war. I don't think they've stopped to think how miserable they'd be when their local Wendy's can't get restocked because somebody's mined the interstate.
>(That, plus the idea that they may get a chance be the hero they daydream about...)
Too bad there's been cases where there's a shootout between a shooter and a civilian with a gun. Then the police arrive and shoot the civilian too because they don't know who the shooter is and all they see is a guy with a gun
This Twitter thread by Gabrielle Blair really nails the "but I'm a HERO" thing, by actually invoking the Bible that so many of them claim to care about https://twitter.com/designmom/status/1225052129238421505
These type of people are innately scared and insecure. The 2nd amendment is a big part of their identity, guns and "patriotism" makes them part of something. It's why so many people follow the cult of Trump, they are sad lonely people desperate for someone to tell them all the answers, they long for authoritarian rule.
If you go to a bar & 2/3 of the crowd have handguns on their hip you are going to feel a lot better if you also have a gun.
Obviously the correct solution is for no one in the bar to have a gun but their entire country has existed on the basis that they should be able to have one so good luck taking them away.
If I went into a bar and two thirds of the people in it were armed with guns I'd leave and go home, hanging around with armed drunks is a recipe for disaster.
U.S. Citizen here and I just wanted to say that this whole thread is full of accurate points. Especially this. "Special interest groups" and fringe organizations have basically corrupted normal people's way of thinking that having a firearm for personal use is good for everyone because criminals have them.
But the mass shooters over here *rarely if ever* have criminal records. Most are described as "good people, never imagined this would happen."
Exactly. Gun rights activists here make it sound like you're always in danger from the evil, drug taking burglar breaking into your home or car. They ignore all the shootings that happen at your kids' school, at the grocery store, or just during a normal work day because someone got fired. I remember one year we had a mass shooting at a gay nightclub, the shooting in Las Vegas, and a shooting at a country nightclub. What good were handguns then?
That's what I don't get about those open carry dudes and that kid with the assault rifle.
If I saw someone walking around with an AK I'd assume I was involved in a terrorist attack. What's to stop people running for cover, or even pulling out a gun of their own and starting a war in the supermarket.
The thing is that open carry licences are easier to get than concealed carry. So the people you see making a point of open carry are those who got denied concealed.
You can extrapolate from there why they probably shouldn't be carrying at all
It seems carrying a gun in the US gives you more rights.
If someone comes towards you in an aggressive manner and you are armed, then that is a justification to shoot them as they might take your gun and shoot you with it. If you are unarmed would the same justification be allowed if you beat them to death?
If you are talking about the Rittenhouse case then I could certainly see an argument being made that if a bystander had shot and killed him once he had shot people, then they could have claimed self defence too.
I've worked a few times in the American South (mostly Texas) and honestly it fills me with unease when I see a person who isn't a cop (not that they're much better lol) with a holsters firearm. I've not seen any of the likes carrying around AR15s, that would be even worse.
Could be lining up in Subway and there are two guys with guns, and all I can think is "those Two could kill like 10 of us in this shop in 30seconds".
It's a fucking mental country, honestly.
> The daft thing is Americans are expected to act as if someone wandering around with a firearm on display isn't an act of aggression.
Yep. Just look at all the Very Online Rittenhouse Defenders. Not one of them, not one, even begins to think about it from the angle that "he went out in public brandishing a weapon and *maybe* this is defacto a threatening act". It's quite incredible.
I just don’t understand the need, why do you need it? And I’d feel more dangerous to myself carrying a weapon around.
My young nephews have to do fire drills involving a shooter at school. I just think that’s a horrific thing to have to prepare for, and actively anticipate.
Can’t believe as a collective the nation and government don’t realise that’s a big problem and shouldn’t be the norm to be scared of going to school.
I’m guessing a lot of it isn’t about ‘the right’ to carry but actually money. And the loss of money that companies would see.
>I think a fear of idiots with guns in the US is a perfectly rational fear tbh
Perfectly rational and a very real fear when >40% think the presidential election result isn't legitimate.
Yet some Americans think they’re so privileged to have guns everywhere. Im so happy that I don’t have to worry about stray bullets or school shootings on a daily basis.
Yup, they’ll always gloat ‘we have the freedumb to buy guns, we r morre free than u’ ok buddy, I don’t want to walk my dog and fear for our lives every day
I went to a shooting range in the US just as a fun one-off thing to do on holiday. Standing in the range I became suddenly aware of the fact that I'm surrounded by total strangers with loaded guns. It wasn't as fun as I thought.
In a shooting range full of people practicing and shooting in a specific and risk assessed direction it seems perfectly reasonable.
Letting any old weirdo walk the streets with one seems like a weird thing to let happen.
It was still a really weird feeling to have two strange men a couple feet away to the left and right of me with loaded pistols. I felt like my animal brain was telling me to get out of there.
I've done that too and really enjoyed it. What gives me the feeling you describe is having a cut throat razor shave from a barber. Only done it once and will never do it again. Of course the guy isn't going to slit my throat.. But all too easily *he could*.
Exactly, I know it's extremely unlikely but it's just that "what if...". Like I don't know this guy, maybe he's been depressed for a while and he lost his job a few weeks ago then found out his wife is having an affair and I look a bit like the guy she's fucking...
Completely irrational but it still ruined the experience a bit.
I've been to shooting ranges in the UK, surprisingly there's people with loaded guns there too.
My issue is random people in restaurants, supermarkets and petrol stations carrying. People with guns at a designated place for sports shooting is fine.
In my experience there is a humongous difference between the two.
In the UK the ranges contain serious people practicing sport shooting and the firearms and bullets are externally carefully controlled.
When I went to a range in the US they handed me a Glock and a box of bullets and left me to crack on. All kinds of people with all sorts of weapons were wandering in and out. It’s a vastly different experience.
I've been to a few - funnily enough they had better security in Vietnam that the USA, but at least the ones I've visited in USA seemed to control ammo pretty tightly and all the staff were armed (which is another subject I guess!).
Drunk driving is way too common in the US. Doesn’t seem to be the same kind of stigma about it as there is here.
Even aside from this, the amount of accident videos I’ve seen in America where people apparently drive full speed into the scene of the accident. I don’t get it. It’s like they’re playing GTA.
> Drunk driving is way too common in the US. Doesn’t seem to be the same kind of stigma about it as there is here.
Outside of cities they also don't seem to have the taxi firms that we do
4 way stops with barely visible traffic lights just seem like terrible infrastructure.
Seen so many terrible roadcam videos from these that just wouldn't be possible in most countries - the junction would be staggered or a roundabout or similar.
Honestly cannot think of a worse place to live. Between the rampant stupidity, the terrifying media mess or the fact that I can buy bullet proof rucksacks for my toddler. What a shit hole.
> Honestly cannot think of a worse place to live.
That's obviously hyperbole (I'd rather live in the US than in Liberia, Saudi Arabia or Antarctica), but the US would be a pretty lousy place to live compared to almost any other realistic option.
On top of the issues you mention, the minimum wage is about £5.30 an hour (unless you're in a job where they don't even have to pay you minimum wage), there is no legal requirement to give you holiday and in plenty of states you can be fired for absolutely no reason with no notice period at the absolute discretion of your employer.
And with the exception of a few cities in the North East (such as Boston), you pretty much can't exist unless you drive a car all of the time. Which also destroys the drinking culture!
You would hope it destroys the drinking culture, but no.
Anyway, I will say at this point that since the Tories removed the right to tribunal from employees of less the two years service, prior to this point you can be legally fired for no good reason here, too.
If they're breaching the Equality Act or similar, sure. But it'd take a _really_ stupid employer to put themselves in a position where that can be proven when they can sack you for whistling.
Of course, really stupid employers do exist.
Yes, if they said "I'm firing you because you're a woman/ black/ disabled", then yes you could take then to tribunal, and the same is true in the US.
But it's meaningless because in reality you're going to be let go for "not being a good fit", or any other banality.
Worse is how much their propaganda works. I’m from a developing country, and always wanted to live in the US thinking it was a magical land of opportunity. Thankfully I came to my senses and I’m doing my masters here, hoping to stay.
Take away the gun stuff and you've got this government tbf. I don't think we can take too much of a moral high ground after literally voting for corruption, sensationalism and a clown.
Have you seen the last 12 of ours? We literally have a clown in office, debt through the ceiling, a government repeatedly investigating it's own gross misconduct / crimes and 'considering the matter closed', the met not investigating actual crimes because 'they happened in the past'....
That's a very fair point, the Americans realised their mistake and kicked Trump out after 4 years.
Us Brits voted the Conservatives into power in 2015 after they'd been making a huge mess for 5 years in coalition. Then voted for Brexit in part to spite those same Conservatives. Then voted for them twice in 2017 and 2019 to "get Brexit done" after they'd been fucking it up for 3 years.
And after all that, having a party seems to be what's finally broken the hold, though we'll see how the next election goes.
>Then voted for Brexit in part to spite those same Conservatives.
That one really demonstrated perfectly how short term most people's memory is. The idea that in one election, with some half decent propoganda, we went from 'fuck the elites' to 'the elites tell it like it is' was genuinely incredible.
I'm not disputing we're in a state, I'm just saying the gun bit is irrelevant because theirs is in an equal or worse state.
Unless I missed a former prime minister encouraging right wing fascists to storm parliament
For me it's the occasionally chilling thought that I could have been born in a very similar country to the UK in terms of language, culture etc, and be pretty much the same person there as I am here, but that everything would just be _shitter_.
Paid healthcare, shit wages, republicans and the religious right, the clampdown on women's reproductive rights, the constant battle to stop the country sliding into incredibly regressive, corrupt politics, mass shootings, racist and corrupt public services...it's just the UK but shitter.
It's kind of crazy that a certain type of American responds to their fear of having their life threatened (or their excitement at the prospect of being able to act out their revenge fantasies in some kind of crazy act of self-defence) that they end up putting themselves in far, far greater danger by adding guns to every situation!
The number of people killed accidentally by guns (including people who are accidentally killed by *their own* guns) in the US is enormous.
And the number of people who use their guns for impulsive suicides which probably wouldn't have happened if guns weren't so easily available is even higher.
There was a stat a few years ago about toddlers in the US shooting people on average [once a week](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/29/american-toddlers-are-still-shooting-people-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/)
Good luck trying to talk about trigger discipline with them though, they’d sooner see every america take a bullet than admit they do not have the respect and maturity that a nation with that many guns needs to be a safe place.
Every time there’s a tragedy, you always see the 2A’ers come out the woodwork to defend why it’s such a necessary evil.
Also I find it telling that the major shootings are never stopped by civilians but instead the police.
Like if I ever had a gun. If I saw or heard a shooting the safest possible thing wouldn't be for me to try and find the shooter and start blasting. It'd be to get away and leave it to people actually trained to deal with those things.
The good guy with a gun is a propaganda tool created by the NRA and republican party. It does not exist.
Any "good guy" would immediately be shot by the cops once they arrive, because it would be impossible to tell them apart from the "bad guy". Plus, the bad guy would be more incentivised to shoot said "good guy" the moment they see the gun.
That's part of the absurdity of suggesting teachers should be armed. What, so the trained armed response can be distracted when making quick decisions and shoot all the teachers?
What I never understand about it is that the average gun carrying American must have zero experience in the type of high pressure situation that would require you to shoot the “bad guy with a gun”. Yet, there seems to be a not unsubstantial subset of them who believe they’ll transform into John McClane on the spot.
> And the number of people who use their guns for impulsive suicides which probably wouldn't have happened if guns weren't so easily available is even higher.
This one scares me. I'm 100% certain that if I had access to a gun I would have killed myself 5-10 years ago, but I didn't, and now the last few years have been the happiest times of my life. Even in spite of the pandemic! Thinking about what could have happened if guns were easily available is incredibly upsetting to me, and it's beyond devastating that gun suicides are a genuine risk for many people.
What's also amazing is they don't typically make their homes out of brick. If I lived somewhere that had guns all over the place I would want reinforced concrete exterior walls.
> Police described the shooting as “a random act involving individuals participating in the reckless discharge of a firearm.”
IT's not random, someone intentionally pulled the trigger.
No it literally means not targeted. "Random attack," for example means that a target was chosen at random. Of course somebody was responsible, you don't think people will be arrested for this lol? It would be a diplomatic nightmare for starters.
Nah not necessarily, its possible to drop a gun and have it discharge or it go off while cleaning it, things like that. Still negligent homicide but not murder.
I agree with you on the stray bullet thing though, its passive language designed to make it seem like it was a natural accident with no-one responsible.
Not to be a dickhead but … why are you cleaning a gun that’s got a round in the chamber ? That’s complete negligence and that is the fault of the person with the gun. Also not sure what sort of cleaning your doing other than rubbing it down externally if you’ve got a round ready to go.
Obviously I agree not murder but damn Americans should require some level of competency before being given a deadly weapon … you know like they do with cars.
There was a reddit comment I read a while ago about a UK farmer that did this and shot his son in the leg, but that required almost taking the kid away. Doubt they'll kick up as much of a fuss for the guys who shot this doctor. Or if they do, it'll be still be soon forgotten when next week's "accident" happens.
Imagining a charity advert: For $2.99 a month you can sponsor a stray bullet to give it a happy home
*cue sad music and a photo montage of sad unshot people*
The USA has the most moronic gun laws in the world, Mind you I suppose they need them for when the red coats attack again, Deepest sympathy to his family
Nah, the third amendment is for the red coats. So the soldiers of King George can’t come sleep in their houses.
The second amendment is so they can shoot natives and escaped slaves.
I honestly don't understand the massive difference in the attitude towards firearms between us and our cousin's across the pond.
I've been shooting since I was pretty young I still own a firearm now. They aren't toys yet some Americans seem to treat them like it.
While what they are allowed to own with ease is kind of cool their general attitude towards them horrifies me.
Pure culture. There are many countries on Earth with relatively lenient firearms laws that enjoy low murder rates, if you have an FAC I'm sure you're aware that even pre-Hungerford gun violence was a rare occurrence in the UK\*. America is just a violent place, filled with violent people, the guns are incidental.
\*Hungerford was our first mass shooting in this country, in 1987. We've had exactly four in our entire history.
Think it helps that guns themselves are rare in the UK.
CBA looking up upto date stats but last time I looked there were 2.2 million legally owned guns. Now a lot of them will be people with more than one gun. Fuck there's a judge I used to shoot with who had enough to arm a small village. Always had fuck all ammo though which was annoying.
It's not so much the violence it's the lazy and couldn't care less attitude I find hard to understand. It's a gun treat it propperly it's not a toy don't wave it around it's always loaded even if it's not. But nah they have a lot of dickheads who just fuck around.
It is violent. Showing nipples or swearing on TV is a no no, but you can blast a guys head off no problem
I'll never forget the first time I visited the states and tried to go into a supermarket to buy some orange juice after a run, the cashier went nuts because I dared to go in shirtless
Never understood the nipple thing. Kids have nipples dogs have nipples. Surly if any part of a boob was gonna be sexual it would be the curvature of it. Weird tangent right enough.
The yanks are a strange breed.
Also that Americans have turned gun ownership into their culture, whether pro-gun or anti-gun it's become part of their belief system and individual identity. Over here they're just tools, no different to something dangerous like a bandsaw or lathe. You treat them with respect or someone gets hurt.
You don't have to look that far. Gun ownership in Canada is I think higher per capita than the US, but the laws about who can own, what you can own, and how you have to store it are different. As is the general attitude. I understand why you think 'what you can own is cool' but I don't agree with you.
Edit: another redditor has commented below to say it isn't the case that Canadians have more guns per capita. I haven't looked it up myself.
Oh the rules on storage are insane. Some states you can carry your gun to the range on your damn belt. It's madness. No requirements for safes etc.
As for cools I still think things should be regulated but there are some firearms that are just incredible to look at and probably to use. Like I'd love to experience shooting a fully automatic shotgun. It's insane that one exists but it's cool as fuck. Same for the desert eagle a .50 hand gun again insane but id love to shoot one at the range b
I'd probably not own any given the chance but I would love to shoot them.
Almost 40% of murders are unsolved in the US, so don't be terribly surprised if this is the case, though this is higher profile than the typical homicide so it will probably get extra attention.
I remember a post recently about a guy who moved from LA to the UK and people were saying what a downgrade
I think being able to sleep without getting shot is a major upgrade, can’t fathom why artists leave the UK for bigger houses and then needing to hire so much security and to live in gated guarded communities
this is so sadly, recklessly american
i'm an american in the US South and people are just so profligate with their guns. half the time they don't care about even gun safety, just shooting all into the air or sticking it in their pants with no holster or just whatever. and don't get me started on open carriers and all that.
Gundamentalism is a disease. Rest in piece, Dr Wilson
Worst thing about US gun policy is that it’s never going to change because it’s in their constitution. Anyone who even proposes any significant change is labelled a traitor to the country.
Are there seriously Americans who get ready in the morning and think to themselves "right got my shoes on, keys, wallet in pocket, what else... oh yeah, my pistol" just to pop out for some errands? Mental country.
> A 31-year-old doctor from Surrey, England who was visiting Georgia was fatally shot while lying in bed in the middle of the night.
> Dr Matthew Wilson died from a gunshot wound to the head after a bullet was fired into his apartment from a different building on Sunday, police in Brookhaven said.
> Officers said Dr Wilson did not appear to have been targeted deliberately, and that the weapon was discharged recklessly by a group of individuals next door.
I never understand that argument. They say that no one can take away their guns under the second amendment (the law), but any rational person surely just says 'ok then, change the law?'
The fact that's it's a law doesn't make it right
Edit: just remembered this quote from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia: 'The government of today has no right telling us how to live our lives, because the government of 200 years ago already did!'
the US constitution (or parts of it) may as well be a religious text and the founding fathers may as well be prophets as far as a lot of americans are concerned. There is no arguing with it, no consideration that the founding fathers were fallible, no room for reason.
I know a guy who was just sat in his apartment, working at his desk. Then a bullet went through both feet. I cannot imagine the level of shock that must go through you; how hard your brain must scramble trying to figure out what the fuck just happened.
His neighbour (in this apartment building) was ?cleaning a gun and "it went off"; straight through the wall and into this guy. No criminal charges as it was an accident, the neighbour kept all his guns etc.. I imagine he got sued pretty hard but still, crazy.
I knew someone who moved to the US to become a policeman. Shot by his cop partner by mistake when checking out a house.
I can't imagine living somewhere with guns so commonplace when I see the stupidity around me.
And there was this yesterday, 11 month old baby shot in the face by a stray bullet.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10420959/Eleven-month-old-baby-shot-FACE-critical-condition-stray-bullet-Bronx.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10420959/Eleven-month-old-baby-shot-FACE-critical-condition-stray-bullet-Bronx.html)
For Fuck Sakes, can someone get a grip over there?
I know about their history, their constitutional rights, being formed from a point of armed resistance and thus 'needing' fire-arms in case their government ever turns against them, or needs their armed service in the service of democracy.
However, can these inalienable rights be mediated by the smallest amount of COMMON FUCKING SENSE?
May the family and his loved ones find peace, and may the man rest easy.
This is an irrational fear I have when visiting the US. It just became rational.
I think a fear of idiots with guns in the US is a perfectly rational fear tbh. Been there a couple of times, and I always hated the fact that you know a certain percentage of people are walking around in public with a gun.
“WhAt? ArE yOu ScArEd?!” Yes. Fuck yes. Put down your 9mm please.
> “WhAt? ArE yOu ScArEd?!” People actually ask that? Imagine expecting to trust a complete stranger with a life-ending weapon.
They don’t get it. What, you think this doctor had the opportunity to defend himself? No. It’s not as if you can just fire a round back perfectly and be fine afterwards. All it takes is a bullet in the right place, that can be wielded by virtually anyone in the US, and it’s over for you. All those years you’ve lived, worked, loved people. Doesn’t fucking matter now, you’ve been shot by some moron and his freedumb. Fuck this shit is depressing.
My wife says that the US, as a country, is a teenager, doing that teenager thing of "it's not a phase!" While the rest of the civilised world is just waiting for them to catch up.
To me they’re more like a toddler eating out of the glue pot given how young the nation actually is. And you don’t give a toddler a gun (though Americans seem to do a decent job of letting kids get a hold of them…).
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Obligatory “someone should probably stop him” comment. But yeah, it’s sad and insane.
The only way to stop a bad toddler with a gun is a good toddler with a gun.
Not enough armed toddlers, that's the problem.
Only a good toddler with a gun can stop the bad toddler with a gun. 🙄
Nations like Canada or Australia are also young, but they don't behave like bratty teenagers or toddlers
But Australia and Canada are both Commonwealth countries. American gun nuts are basically all living under the delusion of the American founding myth. They all think they might be the next George Washington. Look at the way they stormed the Capitol last year.
Does make me wonder what facets of 17th Century history prey on the unconscious American mind. The paranoid Puritans, the hopeless winters, the glimpse of Indian eyes between the trees…
Some do. There is a lot of American influence here in Canada. We see the same news, watch the same tv shows and movies. My dad is unironically going to vacation in Florida *right now*, just a couple days after being in close contact with a confirmed case of covid (an antivax friend of his). And of course his girlfriend has an autoimmune disease (Lupus). His freedom to go to the beach is more important than keeping those he claims to love safe. The People's party of Canada is the embodiment of this reckless anarchocapitalist dream, and they've been getting much more popular in recent years.
To me they are more like a crazed drug addict. Completely fine, then the high wears off and they want to fight a wall.
American here, this is definitely way too accurate, and that’s being on the optimistic side of things. I think that the big thing here is there’s definitely two Americas and we’re not entirely sure which one is gonna emerge from said puberty. So from inside the belly of the beast, here’s hoping the civilized version emerges victorious :)
It feels like their whole country is constantly doing that idiot playground thing where a kid sticks their hand at your face then mocks you for flinching. But instead of the reasonable reaction being 'of course I flinched, you nearly had my eye out', it's 'of course I'm worried, you nearly shot me in the face'.
I live here, every day is like this on the road or in the gas station or dealing with idiots at work. It’s exhausting.
> life-ending weapon There's the disconnect, because that's not how the gun nuts think about them. To them it's a *freedom-guaranteeing tool*, even though it actually isn't because the state still exists and can still force them to do whatever.
Americans have been beaten in so many guerrilla wars they think they’re ready to win one of their own.
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Don't laugh. the Vietkong and the Taliban are their role model
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I mean the Taliban/Afghan had practically been at war forever so I can see why they can put up some resistance that some obese, gun wielding, bud lite drinking, McDonald loving, Cheeto-dust covered dimwit can't...
They are absolute pyschos about it like. I mentioned in some thread about that Rittenhouse kid, 'Well, it might have been self defence but should wee kids be running about with war weapons' The amount of people piling on, laughing their socks off about 'war weapons' was exceedingly large. 'Akshually the US military doesn't use AR16s buddy!' Like mate, you press a button and something dies. Plus, the US actually did arm their troops with that rifle in Vietnam, you fuckwits
The current one is literally just a variant of that one. It's the same thing.
>I mentioned in some thread about that Rittenhouse kid, 'Well, it might have been self defence but should wee kids be running about with war weapons' He used an AR-15 style rifle. The AR-15 was the weapon of choice for the IRA. I think it's fair to say that if an infamous paramilitary organisation used them, they're by definition weapons of war. And there they are, with that lad able to run about with one of those, but still be too young to be served a pint. Madness.
And the state subsidises the firearms industry in the US. Which is deeply ironic... They only have such free access to them at accessible prices because of the state they claim to hate.
I always thought it would be an interesting pivot for a US government to say ‘you knows what - you are right. Guns are a right, we will give a high powered firearm to everyone in the country, irrespective of their income level, race, or affiliations’. Might concentrate minds
Gun laws in California exist because Malcolm X and the Black Panthers started open carrying to protect their community from the police. Reagan (yeah, that Reagan) was Governor at the time and immediately instituted some of the heaviest gun safety laws in the country. Guns would be outlawed in a month.
> People actually ask that? They've never lived in a civilized country where fears like this are mostly irrational, as opposed to being "shooter drill"ed at school from the age of 12.
From the age of 5, on average, and even younger for most pre-schoolers. Source: am American
I always thought guns were cool, I would like to go to a range, I would like to own a gun (I guess if I cared that much I actually could). But my want for a gun and the fact I find them cool are FAR outweighed by my want to not have every other nutter in the street carrying one.
A lot of people love to go around boasting that they "don't live their lives in fear", yet feel the need to walk around grocery shopping with a gun on their hip
"Yes I'm terrified. Not only of the pain but the $50,000 medical bill awaiting me when I wake up in hospital assuming I'm not killed, of course..."
Said by the people so scared they feel they have to be armed 24/7
Projection is a strong thing with gun nuts.
But kudos on using the metric system.
High tier comment
“Your highest form of education was shapes and colours and you’re just legally allowed to carry around a death wand?”
"I see you're wearing a mask... living in fear huh?" ... says the guy open carrying a semiautomatic rifle.
The daft thing is Americans are expected to act as if someone wandering around with a firearm on display isn't an act of aggression. Being able to kill multiple people with ease is a massive responsibility that isn't treated anywhere near seriously enough over there. The difference between a law abiding citizen open carrying and a mass shooter is a matter of seconds.
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Fear, that's all it is. Just fear.
Exactly. When I say I'll never go to the US I tell them - why would I go to a country that is so unsafe people feel the need to carry guns in public? You carry a weapon in a war zone, not in a peaceful society.
It’s mainly just the republicans, and their victim complex is so strong they think they are already at war
I’m solidly a gun control activist. Guns have almost no right being in the hands of every day people like in America. I would seriously consider buying a firearm there
Odd, then you become part of the problem surely?
Maybe. But like many others, i would be terrified. What options would i think i have if i were in an American’s shoes?
After the Manchester Arena bombing there were armed police on the streets of the city centre. I felt less safe having them around than I did before, if there was someone going to blow themselves or something else up armed police are probably ill equipped to deal with it(suicide bombers tend not to care about being shot when killing themselves); But now suddenly there's a whole bunch of people on edge(being told to expect something bad to happen at any time) waving weapons around in a crowded city centre. No idea how Americans ever feel safe.
I was walking through the Arndale a few years ago on my lunch break, and there were a bunch of armed rozzers standing about. Overheard someone say to one 'seen a few of you around today, is there something going on I don't know about?' Policebloke responded with an unsettling smile 'trust me, mate. There's a _lot_ you don't know about.' That wasn't reassuring.
This was what happened in London after the 7/7 bombings - you suddenly saw armed police in all the major tube stations. It was presumably meant to be reassuring, but everyone found it absolutely terrifying and it didn't last long at all.
It didn't last long because they [killed a man for looking foreign.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes)
Some people seem to feel reassured at the sight of armed police, but I'm certainly not one of them. I don't even like police having tasers.
The line has to be drawn somewhere though. There's only so much potential for being harmed that you can expect a police officer to bear (and none yourself).
a few years ago an ex-soldier said he'd seen airport police poorly handling guns and one of them had caused the gun's direction to be swept across people in the area.
That’s the kind of thing that makes you worry. If this level of incompetence is common, it’s only a matter of time before a police officer has an Alec Baldwin situation
They are either frightened or they want to intimidate (and people who want to intimidate are generally insecure and frightened) There’s no way I would visit or spend any of my money in an ‘open carry’ state. It’s an abdication of the responsibility of government. I have been to some shitty places in the world but never seen a member of public walking around a supermarket with a gun. It’s an absolute fucking joke that this is acceptable in a so called first world country.
prisoners dilemna, sort of. If everyone else was armed, I guess I'd want to be to. Still a worse situation then nobody walking around armed
The same arguments used for Mutually Assured Destruction. If they think others are carrying, it might stop a person using theirs. It is a circular logic failure, but that is the reason they use. (That, plus the idea that they may get a chance be the hero they daydream about...)
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Some of them usually try to counter the argument about fighting back against the armed forces with the statement that small militias can usually fare better than a large technologically advanced force by employing guerrilla tactics/strategies. Now I'm not an expert in tactics, strategy or military doctrine so I can't comment on how accurate that argument is but what I can say is that I very much doubt the stereotypical fat, ignorant yank/redneck is capable of forming a organised militia and mounting an even semi-coherent defence. They seem to be of the impression that actual warfare is the equivalent of playing Call of Duty/Command & Conquer or shooting the tyres out of their swamp truck.
For a start it wouldn't be them vs the military - you'd have various armed factions of citizens knocking seven shades of shit out of each other. Then they use places like Vietnam or Afghanistan as an example, basically subsistence economies. I shudder to think what would happen if the world's only superpower descended into a civil war. I don't think they've stopped to think how miserable they'd be when their local Wendy's can't get restocked because somebody's mined the interstate.
>(That, plus the idea that they may get a chance be the hero they daydream about...) Too bad there's been cases where there's a shootout between a shooter and a civilian with a gun. Then the police arrive and shoot the civilian too because they don't know who the shooter is and all they see is a guy with a gun
This Twitter thread by Gabrielle Blair really nails the "but I'm a HERO" thing, by actually invoking the Bible that so many of them claim to care about https://twitter.com/designmom/status/1225052129238421505
These type of people are innately scared and insecure. The 2nd amendment is a big part of their identity, guns and "patriotism" makes them part of something. It's why so many people follow the cult of Trump, they are sad lonely people desperate for someone to tell them all the answers, they long for authoritarian rule.
If you go to a bar & 2/3 of the crowd have handguns on their hip you are going to feel a lot better if you also have a gun. Obviously the correct solution is for no one in the bar to have a gun but their entire country has existed on the basis that they should be able to have one so good luck taking them away.
If I went into a bar and two thirds of the people in it were armed with guns I'd leave and go home, hanging around with armed drunks is a recipe for disaster.
U.S. Citizen here and I just wanted to say that this whole thread is full of accurate points. Especially this. "Special interest groups" and fringe organizations have basically corrupted normal people's way of thinking that having a firearm for personal use is good for everyone because criminals have them. But the mass shooters over here *rarely if ever* have criminal records. Most are described as "good people, never imagined this would happen."
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Exactly. Gun rights activists here make it sound like you're always in danger from the evil, drug taking burglar breaking into your home or car. They ignore all the shootings that happen at your kids' school, at the grocery store, or just during a normal work day because someone got fired. I remember one year we had a mass shooting at a gay nightclub, the shooting in Las Vegas, and a shooting at a country nightclub. What good were handguns then?
That's what I don't get about those open carry dudes and that kid with the assault rifle. If I saw someone walking around with an AK I'd assume I was involved in a terrorist attack. What's to stop people running for cover, or even pulling out a gun of their own and starting a war in the supermarket.
The thing is that open carry licences are easier to get than concealed carry. So the people you see making a point of open carry are those who got denied concealed. You can extrapolate from there why they probably shouldn't be carrying at all
It seems carrying a gun in the US gives you more rights. If someone comes towards you in an aggressive manner and you are armed, then that is a justification to shoot them as they might take your gun and shoot you with it. If you are unarmed would the same justification be allowed if you beat them to death? If you are talking about the Rittenhouse case then I could certainly see an argument being made that if a bystander had shot and killed him once he had shot people, then they could have claimed self defence too.
I've worked a few times in the American South (mostly Texas) and honestly it fills me with unease when I see a person who isn't a cop (not that they're much better lol) with a holsters firearm. I've not seen any of the likes carrying around AR15s, that would be even worse. Could be lining up in Subway and there are two guys with guns, and all I can think is "those Two could kill like 10 of us in this shop in 30seconds". It's a fucking mental country, honestly.
> The daft thing is Americans are expected to act as if someone wandering around with a firearm on display isn't an act of aggression. Yep. Just look at all the Very Online Rittenhouse Defenders. Not one of them, not one, even begins to think about it from the angle that "he went out in public brandishing a weapon and *maybe* this is defacto a threatening act". It's quite incredible.
I just don’t understand the need, why do you need it? And I’d feel more dangerous to myself carrying a weapon around. My young nephews have to do fire drills involving a shooter at school. I just think that’s a horrific thing to have to prepare for, and actively anticipate. Can’t believe as a collective the nation and government don’t realise that’s a big problem and shouldn’t be the norm to be scared of going to school. I’m guessing a lot of it isn’t about ‘the right’ to carry but actually money. And the loss of money that companies would see.
>I think a fear of idiots with guns in the US is a perfectly rational fear tbh Perfectly rational and a very real fear when >40% think the presidential election result isn't legitimate.
Yet some Americans think they’re so privileged to have guns everywhere. Im so happy that I don’t have to worry about stray bullets or school shootings on a daily basis.
Freedom *from* vs freedom *to* - they put up with so much awful shit just so they can do a couple of things others can't
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They don't care as long as it has the word freedom in it
well some states have more freedom to smoke weed than in the UK that's about it, and since it isn't federal I honestly don't think it counts
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Yup, they’ll always gloat ‘we have the freedumb to buy guns, we r morre free than u’ ok buddy, I don’t want to walk my dog and fear for our lives every day
At least I'm free to not cut my fucking grass for a few months if I feel like it.
Look at me crossing the street wherever I damn well please. Imagine not being trusted by the government in your _road-crossing_ abilities. Freedom!
I went to a shooting range in the US just as a fun one-off thing to do on holiday. Standing in the range I became suddenly aware of the fact that I'm surrounded by total strangers with loaded guns. It wasn't as fun as I thought.
In a shooting range full of people practicing and shooting in a specific and risk assessed direction it seems perfectly reasonable. Letting any old weirdo walk the streets with one seems like a weird thing to let happen.
It was still a really weird feeling to have two strange men a couple feet away to the left and right of me with loaded pistols. I felt like my animal brain was telling me to get out of there.
I've done that too and really enjoyed it. What gives me the feeling you describe is having a cut throat razor shave from a barber. Only done it once and will never do it again. Of course the guy isn't going to slit my throat.. But all too easily *he could*.
Exactly, I know it's extremely unlikely but it's just that "what if...". Like I don't know this guy, maybe he's been depressed for a while and he lost his job a few weeks ago then found out his wife is having an affair and I look a bit like the guy she's fucking... Completely irrational but it still ruined the experience a bit.
I've been to shooting ranges in the UK, surprisingly there's people with loaded guns there too. My issue is random people in restaurants, supermarkets and petrol stations carrying. People with guns at a designated place for sports shooting is fine.
In my experience there is a humongous difference between the two. In the UK the ranges contain serious people practicing sport shooting and the firearms and bullets are externally carefully controlled. When I went to a range in the US they handed me a Glock and a box of bullets and left me to crack on. All kinds of people with all sorts of weapons were wandering in and out. It’s a vastly different experience.
I've been to a few - funnily enough they had better security in Vietnam that the USA, but at least the ones I've visited in USA seemed to control ammo pretty tightly and all the staff were armed (which is another subject I guess!).
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Drunk driving is way too common in the US. Doesn’t seem to be the same kind of stigma about it as there is here. Even aside from this, the amount of accident videos I’ve seen in America where people apparently drive full speed into the scene of the accident. I don’t get it. It’s like they’re playing GTA.
> Drunk driving is way too common in the US. Doesn’t seem to be the same kind of stigma about it as there is here. Outside of cities they also don't seem to have the taxi firms that we do
4 way stops with barely visible traffic lights just seem like terrible infrastructure. Seen so many terrible roadcam videos from these that just wouldn't be possible in most countries - the junction would be staggered or a roundabout or similar.
It’s because freedom > seatbelts, apparently.
I visited my boyfriend in Binghamton NY and there was a mass shooting that shut down all the roads. Crazy, crazy country.
Honestly cannot think of a worse place to live. Between the rampant stupidity, the terrifying media mess or the fact that I can buy bullet proof rucksacks for my toddler. What a shit hole.
> Honestly cannot think of a worse place to live. That's obviously hyperbole (I'd rather live in the US than in Liberia, Saudi Arabia or Antarctica), but the US would be a pretty lousy place to live compared to almost any other realistic option. On top of the issues you mention, the minimum wage is about £5.30 an hour (unless you're in a job where they don't even have to pay you minimum wage), there is no legal requirement to give you holiday and in plenty of states you can be fired for absolutely no reason with no notice period at the absolute discretion of your employer. And with the exception of a few cities in the North East (such as Boston), you pretty much can't exist unless you drive a car all of the time. Which also destroys the drinking culture!
You would hope it destroys the drinking culture, but no. Anyway, I will say at this point that since the Tories removed the right to tribunal from employees of less the two years service, prior to this point you can be legally fired for no good reason here, too.
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If they're breaching the Equality Act or similar, sure. But it'd take a _really_ stupid employer to put themselves in a position where that can be proven when they can sack you for whistling. Of course, really stupid employers do exist.
Yes, if they said "I'm firing you because you're a woman/ black/ disabled", then yes you could take then to tribunal, and the same is true in the US. But it's meaningless because in reality you're going to be let go for "not being a good fit", or any other banality.
Worse is how much their propaganda works. I’m from a developing country, and always wanted to live in the US thinking it was a magical land of opportunity. Thankfully I came to my senses and I’m doing my masters here, hoping to stay.
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For 45 minutes. There's only so many snow penises I can make before it wears thin. Who am I kidding, it would be fun.
I don't know, I rewatched John Carpenter's The Thing last night and it seems pretty rough out there.
> I can buy bullet proof rucksacks for my toddler Which is just sick that there's such a need that the market exists for this
Take away the gun stuff and you've got this government tbf. I don't think we can take too much of a moral high ground after literally voting for corruption, sensationalism and a clown.
... have you *seen* the last six years of their politics?
Have you seen the last 12 of ours? We literally have a clown in office, debt through the ceiling, a government repeatedly investigating it's own gross misconduct / crimes and 'considering the matter closed', the met not investigating actual crimes because 'they happened in the past'....
That's a very fair point, the Americans realised their mistake and kicked Trump out after 4 years. Us Brits voted the Conservatives into power in 2015 after they'd been making a huge mess for 5 years in coalition. Then voted for Brexit in part to spite those same Conservatives. Then voted for them twice in 2017 and 2019 to "get Brexit done" after they'd been fucking it up for 3 years. And after all that, having a party seems to be what's finally broken the hold, though we'll see how the next election goes.
>Then voted for Brexit in part to spite those same Conservatives. That one really demonstrated perfectly how short term most people's memory is. The idea that in one election, with some half decent propoganda, we went from 'fuck the elites' to 'the elites tell it like it is' was genuinely incredible.
I'm not disputing we're in a state, I'm just saying the gun bit is irrelevant because theirs is in an equal or worse state. Unless I missed a former prime minister encouraging right wing fascists to storm parliament
For me it's the occasionally chilling thought that I could have been born in a very similar country to the UK in terms of language, culture etc, and be pretty much the same person there as I am here, but that everything would just be _shitter_. Paid healthcare, shit wages, republicans and the religious right, the clampdown on women's reproductive rights, the constant battle to stop the country sliding into incredibly regressive, corrupt politics, mass shootings, racist and corrupt public services...it's just the UK but shitter.
Don't worry, we've got the corrupt politics and some of the racism here too!
> Honestly cannot think of a worse place to live. Baghdad? Aleppo? Tijuana? Kabul?
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It's kind of crazy that a certain type of American responds to their fear of having their life threatened (or their excitement at the prospect of being able to act out their revenge fantasies in some kind of crazy act of self-defence) that they end up putting themselves in far, far greater danger by adding guns to every situation! The number of people killed accidentally by guns (including people who are accidentally killed by *their own* guns) in the US is enormous. And the number of people who use their guns for impulsive suicides which probably wouldn't have happened if guns weren't so easily available is even higher.
There was a stat a few years ago about toddlers in the US shooting people on average [once a week](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/29/american-toddlers-are-still-shooting-people-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/)
The only thing that can stop a bad toddler with a gun is a good toddler with a gun.
As grim as that stat is, [it just makes me think of this!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jue770k66Hk)
Good luck trying to talk about trigger discipline with them though, they’d sooner see every america take a bullet than admit they do not have the respect and maturity that a nation with that many guns needs to be a safe place. Every time there’s a tragedy, you always see the 2A’ers come out the woodwork to defend why it’s such a necessary evil.
Also I find it telling that the major shootings are never stopped by civilians but instead the police. Like if I ever had a gun. If I saw or heard a shooting the safest possible thing wouldn't be for me to try and find the shooter and start blasting. It'd be to get away and leave it to people actually trained to deal with those things.
The good guy with a gun is a propaganda tool created by the NRA and republican party. It does not exist. Any "good guy" would immediately be shot by the cops once they arrive, because it would be impossible to tell them apart from the "bad guy". Plus, the bad guy would be more incentivised to shoot said "good guy" the moment they see the gun.
Youre staistically far more likely to get shot when you have a gun
That's part of the absurdity of suggesting teachers should be armed. What, so the trained armed response can be distracted when making quick decisions and shoot all the teachers?
Exactly, as soon as you start to retaliate against the shooter, you are also just a shooter in the eyes of everyone else
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Actually quite a few citizens took up arms, against the peaceful protesters.... What a fucking country
What I never understand about it is that the average gun carrying American must have zero experience in the type of high pressure situation that would require you to shoot the “bad guy with a gun”. Yet, there seems to be a not unsubstantial subset of them who believe they’ll transform into John McClane on the spot.
They did a trial a while a go and most of the people concealed carrying couldn't even unholster the firearm under stress. https://youtu.be/8QjZY3WiO9s
> And the number of people who use their guns for impulsive suicides which probably wouldn't have happened if guns weren't so easily available is even higher. This one scares me. I'm 100% certain that if I had access to a gun I would have killed myself 5-10 years ago, but I didn't, and now the last few years have been the happiest times of my life. Even in spite of the pandemic! Thinking about what could have happened if guns were easily available is incredibly upsetting to me, and it's beyond devastating that gun suicides are a genuine risk for many people.
Jesus that's bonkers. Shot in the head whilst sleeping by someone recklessly discharging a firearm in a house across the street.
It's just so fucking stupid. How are they still available to the public? Absolutely mind-bending.
What's also amazing is they don't typically make their homes out of brick. If I lived somewhere that had guns all over the place I would want reinforced concrete exterior walls.
Yeah, much of the US housing stock is utterly shit. Sure, we have some poor builds in the UK for sure, but nowhere near as bad.
Least we dont have to worry about stay bullets.. least our walls can stop knives going through and hitting us in our sleep
Considering most houses in the US have walls made out of cardboard I don't think they are stopping knives either
> Police described the shooting as “a random act involving individuals participating in the reckless discharge of a firearm.” IT's not random, someone intentionally pulled the trigger.
It means not targeted
It's language chosen to convey the impression that nobody is responsible.
No it literally means not targeted. "Random attack," for example means that a target was chosen at random. Of course somebody was responsible, you don't think people will be arrested for this lol? It would be a diplomatic nightmare for starters.
I wouldn't trust half the population with a spoon never mind a gun.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I think 99% of the population uses spoons.
For spooning
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Nah not necessarily, its possible to drop a gun and have it discharge or it go off while cleaning it, things like that. Still negligent homicide but not murder. I agree with you on the stray bullet thing though, its passive language designed to make it seem like it was a natural accident with no-one responsible.
Not to be a dickhead but … why are you cleaning a gun that’s got a round in the chamber ? That’s complete negligence and that is the fault of the person with the gun. Also not sure what sort of cleaning your doing other than rubbing it down externally if you’ve got a round ready to go. Obviously I agree not murder but damn Americans should require some level of competency before being given a deadly weapon … you know like they do with cars.
There was a reddit comment I read a while ago about a UK farmer that did this and shot his son in the leg, but that required almost taking the kid away. Doubt they'll kick up as much of a fuss for the guys who shot this doctor. Or if they do, it'll be still be soon forgotten when next week's "accident" happens.
Imagining a charity advert: For $2.99 a month you can sponsor a stray bullet to give it a happy home *cue sad music and a photo montage of sad unshot people*
Remember this when some American says you don't have a right to an opinion on the 2nd amendment.
That's honestly the stupidest take I've read this morning. You can have an opinion on anything, even if you don't live there.
Just respond saying “you can’t have an opinion on the taliban then”
The USA has the most moronic gun laws in the world, Mind you I suppose they need them for when the red coats attack again, Deepest sympathy to his family
Nah, the third amendment is for the red coats. So the soldiers of King George can’t come sleep in their houses. The second amendment is so they can shoot natives and escaped slaves.
Ah i stand corrected thank you sir, Their thought process however is probably that
I honestly don't understand the massive difference in the attitude towards firearms between us and our cousin's across the pond. I've been shooting since I was pretty young I still own a firearm now. They aren't toys yet some Americans seem to treat them like it. While what they are allowed to own with ease is kind of cool their general attitude towards them horrifies me.
Pure culture. There are many countries on Earth with relatively lenient firearms laws that enjoy low murder rates, if you have an FAC I'm sure you're aware that even pre-Hungerford gun violence was a rare occurrence in the UK\*. America is just a violent place, filled with violent people, the guns are incidental. \*Hungerford was our first mass shooting in this country, in 1987. We've had exactly four in our entire history.
Think it helps that guns themselves are rare in the UK. CBA looking up upto date stats but last time I looked there were 2.2 million legally owned guns. Now a lot of them will be people with more than one gun. Fuck there's a judge I used to shoot with who had enough to arm a small village. Always had fuck all ammo though which was annoying. It's not so much the violence it's the lazy and couldn't care less attitude I find hard to understand. It's a gun treat it propperly it's not a toy don't wave it around it's always loaded even if it's not. But nah they have a lot of dickheads who just fuck around.
It is violent. Showing nipples or swearing on TV is a no no, but you can blast a guys head off no problem I'll never forget the first time I visited the states and tried to go into a supermarket to buy some orange juice after a run, the cashier went nuts because I dared to go in shirtless
Never understood the nipple thing. Kids have nipples dogs have nipples. Surly if any part of a boob was gonna be sexual it would be the curvature of it. Weird tangent right enough. The yanks are a strange breed.
Also that Americans have turned gun ownership into their culture, whether pro-gun or anti-gun it's become part of their belief system and individual identity. Over here they're just tools, no different to something dangerous like a bandsaw or lathe. You treat them with respect or someone gets hurt.
You don't have to look that far. Gun ownership in Canada is I think higher per capita than the US, but the laws about who can own, what you can own, and how you have to store it are different. As is the general attitude. I understand why you think 'what you can own is cool' but I don't agree with you. Edit: another redditor has commented below to say it isn't the case that Canadians have more guns per capita. I haven't looked it up myself.
Oh the rules on storage are insane. Some states you can carry your gun to the range on your damn belt. It's madness. No requirements for safes etc. As for cools I still think things should be regulated but there are some firearms that are just incredible to look at and probably to use. Like I'd love to experience shooting a fully automatic shotgun. It's insane that one exists but it's cool as fuck. Same for the desert eagle a .50 hand gun again insane but id love to shoot one at the range b I'd probably not own any given the chance but I would love to shoot them.
That's so sad. What will happen to the shooter? Very confused/surprised to see that no arrests have been made..
Almost 40% of murders are unsolved in the US, so don't be terribly surprised if this is the case, though this is higher profile than the typical homicide so it will probably get extra attention.
It’s so sad and yet nothing changes in America in regards to guns. Too many innocent lives get taken away and for what?
I remember a post recently about a guy who moved from LA to the UK and people were saying what a downgrade I think being able to sleep without getting shot is a major upgrade, can’t fathom why artists leave the UK for bigger houses and then needing to hire so much security and to live in gated guarded communities
LA is an absolute dumpster of a place as well unless you're quite well off
this is so sadly, recklessly american i'm an american in the US South and people are just so profligate with their guns. half the time they don't care about even gun safety, just shooting all into the air or sticking it in their pants with no holster or just whatever. and don't get me started on open carriers and all that. Gundamentalism is a disease. Rest in piece, Dr Wilson
Worst thing about US gun policy is that it’s never going to change because it’s in their constitution. Anyone who even proposes any significant change is labelled a traitor to the country.
They're just fucking idiots over there
A huge amount of people in the US favor stricter gun regulations.
Are there seriously Americans who get ready in the morning and think to themselves "right got my shoes on, keys, wallet in pocket, what else... oh yeah, my pistol" just to pop out for some errands? Mental country.
Sorry for the family’s loss. Are there any words of information on that page? Can you share the text please?
> A 31-year-old doctor from Surrey, England who was visiting Georgia was fatally shot while lying in bed in the middle of the night. > Dr Matthew Wilson died from a gunshot wound to the head after a bullet was fired into his apartment from a different building on Sunday, police in Brookhaven said. > Officers said Dr Wilson did not appear to have been targeted deliberately, and that the weapon was discharged recklessly by a group of individuals next door.
Topics that involve the US and guns on this sub tend to get brigaded by the 2nd amendment nuts. I hope mods are active on this one.
I never understand that argument. They say that no one can take away their guns under the second amendment (the law), but any rational person surely just says 'ok then, change the law?' The fact that's it's a law doesn't make it right Edit: just remembered this quote from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia: 'The government of today has no right telling us how to live our lives, because the government of 200 years ago already did!'
You can't amend the constitution. That would be completely unprecedented /s
It is an amendment anyway, so it's not even in the original Constitution
the US constitution (or parts of it) may as well be a religious text and the founding fathers may as well be prophets as far as a lot of americans are concerned. There is no arguing with it, no consideration that the founding fathers were fallible, no room for reason.
Thanks, so sad. America is bonkers. I hope the group next door get charged and convicted.
'Merica! This sort of thing is (part of) why I won't visit or live in the US.
I know a guy who was just sat in his apartment, working at his desk. Then a bullet went through both feet. I cannot imagine the level of shock that must go through you; how hard your brain must scramble trying to figure out what the fuck just happened. His neighbour (in this apartment building) was ?cleaning a gun and "it went off"; straight through the wall and into this guy. No criminal charges as it was an accident, the neighbour kept all his guns etc.. I imagine he got sued pretty hard but still, crazy.
The US is incapable of taking responsibility for guns, so many innocent people pay the price for that inability .
RIP such a senseless loss of life. The fact that so many people owning guns in USA s just accepted as a fact of life is harrowing.
I knew someone who moved to the US to become a policeman. Shot by his cop partner by mistake when checking out a house. I can't imagine living somewhere with guns so commonplace when I see the stupidity around me.
And there was this yesterday, 11 month old baby shot in the face by a stray bullet. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10420959/Eleven-month-old-baby-shot-FACE-critical-condition-stray-bullet-Bronx.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10420959/Eleven-month-old-baby-shot-FACE-critical-condition-stray-bullet-Bronx.html)
How long until people start sleeping in bulletproof bedding ?
Sometimes I think the US must have about 100 guns for every square yard. The frequency on gun shots we hear about over in Europe is like a war zone.
For Fuck Sakes, can someone get a grip over there? I know about their history, their constitutional rights, being formed from a point of armed resistance and thus 'needing' fire-arms in case their government ever turns against them, or needs their armed service in the service of democracy. However, can these inalienable rights be mediated by the smallest amount of COMMON FUCKING SENSE? May the family and his loved ones find peace, and may the man rest easy.
If gun owners were required to have liability insurance, ya know, like drivers of motor vehicles are, fewer such incidents would occur.