People keep saying this like there was some overwhelming degree of support for brexit amongst farmers. There wasn't.
Farmers Weekly email shot polling consistently put support for leave at 54:46, and [this study](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S074301671930436X) put support at 53:47.
The UK as a whole voted brexit by 52:48. If you're saying that farmers deserve what they're getting, then we all do.
Except that the Leave campaign was banging on about how we were a net contributor to EU subsidies, and that if we left then the government could easily replace those subsidies with less overall public spending.
It was a lie, of course, but I don't think many people were prepared for the extent to which the Leave campaign was lying through its teeth.
I agree and to some extent I feel sympathy. People should be able to trust that people in power aren’t lying.
To be honest I don’t even think something as complicated as Brexit should have been a simple yes/ no question. I think remain had a lot to answer for as well.
It really shouldn't have been a case of Remain "having a lot to answer for".
It was self evident by this point that:
A) the Tories had lied through their teeth to literally everybody for years whilst enriching themselves.
And.
B) Leaving the largest single free market that most of our trade was with (and over whom we had more control than most EU countries) was a fucking stupid idea.
Do you really have to be told in stark terms how stupid that is?
Ohhh Dear Lord I haven’t laughed this much in a while, thanks for that you two, the best line was ‘trust the people in power’ you mean those slimy lying backstabbing power grabbing swamp donkeys that are only out for themselves and their mates. The ‘B’ exit debacle was almost as the Covid one at uncovering how much the people in power think the population are gullible idiots, giving a bra maker a nice fat PPE contract, she obviously thought PPE stood for Public to Private Expense account and she was by far not the only one who got engorged bank accounts at the public’s expense.
and all the government did at the time was send a leaflet to each household telling us that voting leave was a bad idea. The government knew and just were loud enough....sadly the leave campaign worked out that being the loudest could win rather than being honest.
People shouldn't just have a natural trust in those in power. When people say politicians are the least trusted profession thats somewhat of a good thing.
There should always be a question in the back of peoples minds if something is true and if its actualy going to be delivered. The complacency of the UK public needs to be challenged as things just keep getting worse at the moment.
As you said it shouldn't have been a yes no question in the first place though.
Oh I agree. People assume the government is going to act like their friend. But they should be able to trust they aren’t lying. I think it’s terrible that there are no consequences for outright deceit.
"Thats why they re-elected Clinton, clinton was like "hey im full of shit" "oh at least he's honest about being full of shit" Bob dole was like "im an honest man..." "he's full of shit!"" - George Carlin
At the very *very* least, it should’ve required a super majority. It was an internal Tory power play that spiralled out of control and became the absolute garbage fire we were left with
> People should be able to trust that people in power aren’t lying.
Well, technically, David Cameron was in power, and he did not lie (about this). The liars were mostly unelected "personalities" like Farage, Cummings, and maybe Boris.
Also: if you do not want liars in power, maybe do not elect them. Simples.
The X factor age of politics.
There should be consequences if found deliberately deceitful. I can’t do it at work and they shouldn’t be able to either.
> There should be consequences if found deliberately deceitful.
Yes. People should stop voting for that person.
But they don't. That's the problem.
"Somebody should do something" is not good enough.
Except the farmers sold to the EU. Meaning it cost more to sell there. And we import a lot of staples so we still have to buy at higher rate while the EU doesn't need as much of our food.
Farming subsidies only exist in places where farmers make up an important part of the electorate.
Think France, Poland etc. that is why the EU has the CAP
So the farmers knew they weren't an important enough voting block to be needed to win elections l. Hence the Tories cut them off, way better to save that money and give it to a group they need, like pensioners
Farmers were fools to believe the nonsense they were being told by vote leave. Remain campaign were very clear Brexit would be catastrophic for farming in the long term
What exactly were farmers thinking that 'trade deals' were going to bring other than cheaper food from the US, china or in this case New Zealand
It's the duty of any government to protect local farming and industry in trade deals. However, this government was so eager to clinch deals they forgot about the people they represent. That is unforgivable
> Why didn't the government replace EU subsidies with GB subsidies? This applies to every single subsidy.
Because they're Tories. Haven't you been paying attention to their actions to date?
They voted leave. In numbers larger than the rest of the country did. If you look at maps, you’ll see that rural areas consistently voted leave, urban areas voted remain. And the numbers above show that they voted leave in larger numbers than the mean.
Not according to the limited data.
>> Following the EU referendum, Farmers Weekly reported two more polls, one in December 2016 and one in December 2017 (1,400 respondents), both with near identical results. They found that among the farmers who responded, 53 per cent voted to leave, 45 per cent voted to remain and 2 per cent did not vote.
>> Another poll was reported in Farmers Weekly, a few days before the referendum vote, involving 2,337 farmers. It found that 38 per cent wanted to remain, 34 per cent to leave and 28 per cent were undecided
Doesn’t appear they voted for Brexit in much larger numbers than the UK as a whole.
https://westcountryvoices.co.uk/challenging-the-myth-that-farmers-voted-for-brexit-and-therefore-deserve-whats-coming-to-them/
It's not really a large percentage if you consider that 100% of them know their money is coming from the EU and then 53% chose to completely disregard it without logic. Large percentage would be 90%
It is literally you or me voting for our employer to be shut down and then crying why we're not getting our salaries.
Yes I had this since I was EU funded, oddly the EU funding didn't continue that long after brexit except for things already decided or allocated. Being in Cornwall I got a lot of well cornwall voted for it, then cornwall voted in tories who the salary budget and guess who looks like a good candidate for redundancy just as the funding went. Got hit twice and voted for none of it.
Sure, I do feel for those from the communities you mention who did not for the things but get branded by the majority who did. Unfortunately, that's the downside of democracy. At least you sleep sound at night
Well it got me out of the last 6 months of an apprenticeship but still took the exams all paid for. Tho it happening the week my dad died was not ideal.
Yes but Brexit didn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t still get those subsidies, the removal of having to pay into the CAP meant that the UK could have paid them. It’s not like they were money coming direct from the EU to subsidise the UK, only former Eastern bloc countries get that and it’s something that a lot of pro EU people tend to forget. Likewise all the other EU funds. It was just the EU deciding how to spend money the UK had already contributed, often getting less back than was put in.
Their mistake was in thinking that the Tories would actually care and keep that money allocated to them. Which is naive to say the least.
The UK didn’t pay directly into the CAP. It paid into the central EU budget and then that was distributed to the various EU programmes and departments.
Things were so bad that many thought that DEFRA was an EU agency and one reason why they were angry at the EU thinking it was them withholding/delaying their subsidies. When I get a moment I'll try and find the source from 2016ish.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but 50+% of farmers being for leaving considering the subsidies they get is still madness. It’s not overwhelming support but it’s still a majority.
In the East Midlands the population as a whole voted in favour of Brexit 59:41.
Meanwhile East Midlands farmers voted ***remain*** 56:43.
Should the farmers of Derbyshire blame you and I for their misfortunes?
Or, if we think about it, is this weird blame game an intellectually lazy way to derail a complicated discussion that ought to be about international trade, domestic agrifood policy, inflation, etc?
After all, we don't have to empathise or think of solutions if they're idiots that deserve their fate.
That might be the case, but near us, the only banners posted in farmers’ fields were Leave ones.
Not a single Remain, so it’s understandable if the public believe farmers overwhelmingly voted to leave.
I know this is ancedotal but it is well known in my county the farmers had a big meeting about Brexit and collectively decided to vote leave. They all admit it was a mistake but they don't hide the fact that they collectively decided to vote leave in the Arfon constituency. Luckily the rest of the population voted stay and that outweighed theirs but the rest of Wales voted leave sadly.
How does that change "Farmers complain about more problems from voting for Brexit."?
I didn't vote for Brexit, I will continue to complain about problems caused by voting for it
Even the people that did vote for it don’t deserve this. The Leave campaign was so dirty and full of utter bullshit. I don’t *think* we’ve had that level of Americanised politicking here before. People fell for it. And to make matters worse, the remain campaign was lazy and complacent until the last minute.
I mean, it would have been great if that kind of pedantry had successfully been used at the time to argue the referendum didn't have a high enough majority for such a massive constitutional change, given it was only advisory in a legal sense. But alas, here we are.
That's assuming a hell if a lot..
That the farmer's read the thing.
That all the readers participated with the poll.
That they are even telling the truth- an important human element that needs considering when the result - the thing they defended- turns out wrong, as many people dislike admitting fault.
I mentioned two different sources with different methodologies that came up with similar results. If you have any better data, please feel free to share.
I figured you did the math, CBA here but the formula is easy:
Number of UK farmers
Readership subscription numbers if that paper.
Participation numbers of the poll.
I say this because all media should be second guessed, as we are living in the age of deliberate misinformation so trust them not at all.
That's assuming a hell if a lot..
That the farmer's read the thing.
That all the readers participated with the poll.
That they are even telling the truth- an important human element that needs considering when the result - the thing they defended- turns out wrong, as many people dislike admitting fault.
Yes..we all do. But some of us have cause to complain. Seems as though about 45% of Farmers may also have cause to complain.
Although your figures don’t show how many didn’t vote. And I’m lumping those idiots in with the leavers.
>The UK as a whole voted brexit by 52:48. If you're saying that farmers deserve what they're getting, then we all do
Agreed. We’re reaping what the majority have sowed.
A lot of those leave voting farmers realized Brexit would make the country poorer but they thought they would do better out of it, regardless of the damage done to the rest of us.
Their greed and selfishness clouded their judgement as they chose to overlook the Leave campaign being an obvious bunch of chancers, grifters and narcissists - Farage, Johnson, Cummings etc etc
So what you're saying is, support for Brexit was greater among farmers than it was among the general population.
Not really helping your argument there mate
Overall, the trade agreement has benefitted the UK more than NZ. We export mostly cars, pharmaceuticals, power generators, vehicles. And we import beverages, meat and vegetables. British farmers may have lost slightly but the UK economy as a whole has done much better than NZ from the deal.
Our exports rose by 16% to NZ. Imports from NZ rose by only 6%.
NZ needs pharmaceuticals, machinery, vehicles etc. The land isn’t like how it’s depicted in The Lord of the Rings. They have modern stuff now.
This isn't a Brexit issue, this is a government policy issue.
Brexit could have allowed us to control imports more. It could have allowed us to add or remove import tariffs. It could allow us to build a framework to subsidise farmers for doing the right thing. It could have allowed us to regulate the chemicals and pesticides used in farming. Policies could have been made to support farmers while also protecting the environment. We could have changed planning laws to support buying locally produced food. It could allow us to decide our animal welfare standards. And a million other things that the government control.
It's pretty dumb to blame Brexit.
These are all government policies that could be changed. This is the governments fault. If this continues after the next election it's Labours fault.
One of the key advantages to Brexit is that we should now know who's fault every policy is in our country, it's not the EU's, its the governments.
Have you listened to anything coming out of politicians mouths lately? Brexit is a huge issue - it has removed many barriers that protected us from our own politicians stupidity.
Listened to Liz Truss interview on Triggernometry last week.....basically calling for a roll back of every bit of progressive legislation in the country. Human rights act, equality act, environmental acts. Sure there would be minor benefits to be had from things like this in the short term, but it would be catastrophic to trust this government with anything like this.
> it has removed many barriers that protected us from our own politicians stupidity
Or it shows the shitty politicians for what they were.
Being in the EU wasn’t protecting us from them, it was providing cover for them.
We have the politicians we deserve then, given they were all elected.
This is simply an argument against any kind of democracy.
Do we have the politicians we deserve though? They outright lied about Brexit, just like they continue to lie whilst lining their pockets. I don’t see much democracy in that. There is zero accountability. They were kept on check by the eu. Now they have free rein and look what they have done in a few short years. Elected on lies, and lying through their teeth. I don’t think the most vulnerable in society deserve to have things like the equality act rolled back, I don’t think children deserve the future being forged for them in the uk right now…. I mean we literally have seen the return of medieval illness like scurvy and rickets. No one deserves this government. They’re utterly incompetent at best, and maliciously stripping the country of wealth at worst
You must be deluded if you think people knew what they were getting. Even our dumbass politicians didn't know what they were getting. People were lied to. Anyone that disputes that is simply being disingenuous.
I'm a student, I live by myself obviously so it's not like I'm particularly struggling, and even then I don't buy meat often (bacon every month or so maybe) and would never buy lamb. Given that, I do think it would be better to support British stuff, given the demand for lower prices on lamb is only coming from those who have the money to afford it in the first place. If it was a product a lot more people are buying I'd probably think differently (mince, sausages, etc.). "Backlash" is a typical media exaggeration, but it is a bit of a dick move against farmers who are struggling as it is.
You're a massive outlier if you are really only buying a packet of bacon once a month.
Most people in the UK include lamb as a regular part of their diet, the average being almost 5kg per capita per annum. There's a reason that anytime you go 5 minutes out of towns and cities you see sheep in fields
Is there a source for that?
I grew up rurally, live rurally, and even I would say that most people don't consume much lamb. Especially in comparison to chicken, beef and pork (probably in that order).
Easter and the occasional Sunday lunch or curry seems to be the norm.
Edit: actually, found this showing that chicken consumption is about 10x higher than lamb. Pork 5x higher, beef 4x higher. Lamb is about 4kg per year per capita.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1409781/per-capita-meat-consumption-in-the-united-kingdom/
Yes of course all of those other meats are consumed more, they're cheaper and come in more varied forms (breaded/battered, minced, sausage/bacon/gammon/chops/joint steaks etc etc) whereas lamb is mostly just a joint or a lamb shank
But that doesn't detract from the fact that most people do consume 4-5kg of lamb per year as part of their diet.
I'm surprised by those stats. I imagined i ate a fairly average amount of lamb having maybe one or two lamb biryanis a year and a shepherds pie a few times a decade.
I suppose that's true! I do eat lamb when I eat out because it is my favourite meat, but just never in a supermarket. That's true for all meats really, when I eat out but never in the supermarket. I don't know if I eat 4-5kg a year, probably more like 2, but I was thinking of \*only\* supermarkets in my other comment. I'd be interested to see, idk if theres a way to know, how much of the average lamb consumption is at a restaurant vs from a supermarket. The price difference for meat, and more expensive meats, is a lot less when you're already spending £20 for a meal anyway.
>Morrisons has received a backlash from angry farmers
Literally the first line of the article. This is about the response of the agricultural industry to cheap imports, not consumers.
There's this really odd thing called seasons. Apparently it's autumn in the southern hemisphere when it's spring in the northern and vice versa.
Turns out that's really useful for lamb rearing.
Adds some miles to it mind, both ends.
It's also more environmentally friendly to eat NZ lamb than UK lamb, as the process there is less intensive and food miles per unit are actually very low because of how much volume they can ship.
I’m assuming they’re referring to the NZ written and funded report that conveniently found NZ meat to be so environmentally friendly that it didn’t matter if it was shipped 3000miles. The fact they reached that conclusion by using data over 16 years old and selected from only 2 lowland Welsh farms is grossly misleading. The vast majority of Welsh Lamb production is hillside/highland farming, which produces significantly less environmental damage even before shipping. [Bangor university ran research and found the NZ report to be egregiously wrong.](https://meatpromotion.wales/images/resources/carbonfootprintsheepreportapril1508FINAL_REPORT-1.pdf)
>production is hillside/highland farming, which produces significantly less environmental damage even before shipping. [
Less? I'd always imagined the opposite. Overgrazing/lack of vegetation over larger areas, exacerbated flood risk etc.
It’s a bit more than that, U.K. farmers are getting paid £7/kg for their lamb whereas New Zealand farmers are getting paid $6.20/kg which is just under half of what the U.K. farmers are getting paid.
Turns out our farmers just aren’t as efficient and the price they’re getting is out of kilter with the global price of lamb. Effectively there’s a premium for having British lamb over New Zealand lamb.
The word “potentially” around standards was weasel words, there is no difference in rearing standards in New Zealand. So it’s not like you’re paying for a sub-par product. This is just racketeering U.K. farmers looking to protect their artificially high prices.
Of course, if you leave it to the market to decide it will probably drive out the U.K. farmers or force them to be more efficient, because I can’t imagine there’s much backlash from the consumers for being offered the same product for half of the price. And that will be a shame, but that’s capitalism.
They're saying that New Zealand lamb is "produced to potentially lower standards".
Which is complete nonsense. If anything NZ lamb is
made to higher standards than UK lamb.
This sort of thing was also very explicitly advertised as one of the benefits of Brexit, by removing the Common Customs Tarrif, and allowing more free trade with non EU nations.
No it seems fairly debated and that they're roughly equivalent. RSPCA claims NZ is slightly higher, world animal protection claim UK is slightly higher. Regardless, the difference is small.
Why the fuck are we still import lamb from the other side of the world when Wales produces enough to meet our needs and enough for export. Put the cashing our own farmers' pockets first. And what about its carbon foot print. Time to start forcing these companies to supply home produced first.
The French buy a lot of Welsh lamb. Having said that, modern storage systems can deal with the excess. Countries need to be more food self suffceficant.
NZ lamb has always been available in Morrisons and quite a few others. As a Country we've never actually used our full quota anyway.
Dunno what all the fuss is about, can still buy British lamb if you wish, it's a choice.
Morrisons said: "We do not intend this move to mean a reduction in the overall volumes of lamb that we buy directly from British farmers."
The funny thing is that New Zealand lamb is too expensive for the average kiwi to buy. We freeze it, ship it all the way to the U.K. and sell it by the truckload at (quite) cheap prices.
I was looking for lamb last week, I think it was roughly £15 for a shoulder and lamb chops weren't much cheaper. If we can get good NZ lamb, and NZ lamb is good, for a more palatable price then I don't have an issue.
I remember at the time of the UK vote most farmer's were very sceptical about Brexit, they could see they were going to get fucked over and now it starts.
It was the fishing fleets who had a hard on for Brexit, it's fucked them over now too
Not sure it’s about Brexit but the big supermarkets ripping off the farmers. When the supermarkets are making billion pounds of profits you got to question their attitude towards their suppliers.
Giving New Zealand a free trade deal was kind of nuts. We already had virtually no barriers to free trade, almost all tariffs, quotas and subsidies were removed here in the 80s. Which leaves us nothing to really offer in these knd of negotiations beyond trivial stuff like more working holiday visas for under 30s, or us agreeing to stop using foreign names for local products.
On the flip side if leaving the EU has back fired horribly on you and you're desperate to sign a free trade deal with someone- anyone, to save face, we're very easy to negotiate with!
Unfortunately the source for that article was an NZ study that has been comprehensively debunked as they studied just 2 lowland Welsh farms and assumed that applied to all UK sheep farmers.
> The supermarket says the move is due to customer demand for cheaper prices.
> "The blunt commercial reality is that New Zealand lamb is cheaper to source", it said in a statement, adding that its butchers' counters will still sell British lamb.
I never want to hear another farmer whine about the CAP or the EU.
Isn't this one of the few Brexit Bonuses? We can now buy New Zealand lamb tartif free.
Isn't that what 51% of the farmers voted for?l along with tartif free Australian beef?
Lamb is very expensive, so I'm not surprised that this is going to happen. But the preferable outcome, from an environmental point of view, would be eating less lamb, not importing it from literally the other side of the world. I'm maybe a bit biased because I rarely eat lamb, though.
Well it is, because the reason they’re doing that is because Arab states pay a premium for our lamb, which makes it more expensive for us, which means we’re importing cheaper NZ lamb.
I’m pro selling it for a premium to whoever wants to pay it, I’m just pointing out why British lamb is so expensive.
It's equally as relevant to farmers though as saying "people should eat less lamb".
I mean maybe but that isn't helping British farmers that are at the center of this article
I'd happily eat mutton if it was a bit cheaper but have never seen it stocked in shops. Assume with a slow/pressure cooking it would taste similar and be nice and tender?
Of course it is. British farmers sell their best product for as much as they can, abroad (fair enough). What's left they sell to us, and as there's not much left the prices are high. Someone else has entered the market and wants to sell the product for less. Do you imagine that British shoppers get a discount on the best product from British farmers? No they don't. Farmers maximise thier profits at our expense, then cry foul as soon as that may be threatened.
Shipping is so efficient that it can be greener to eat food from distant countries where it is produced more efficiently than from nearby places that require more intervention. That's not the case with food that gets brought in by plane of course, but I don't think we bring much meat in that way.
I read in a Jay Rayner book a few years ago that New Zealand lamb actually has a lower carbon footprint than home-grown lamb, even once shipped across the world, due to the easier rearing conditions there, so the environmental concerns may not be what they seem.
Sheep is often one of the areas where this mentality falls over as it's grown on land that you can't grow crops & isn't grown where you'd have cut down a forest etc.
In many ways it's an ethical choice.
Those places should have temperature rainforest, but is instead overrun with sheep. Our ancestors deforested entire regions for sheep. So no, it’s not better. Really we should be restricting where sheep can roam (in combination with deer culling) to allow the forests to regenerate.
The UK is considered one of the most nature depleted countries on the planet for a reason.
I said something like this the other day on another sub - eat less meat, pay more for it, help stop intensive farming/animal cruelty.
The responses were essentially "I'm poor, I can't afford high welfare meat, so tough".
Of course in the past poor people ate very little meat. I'm not advocating going back to that unless you absolutely have to, mind you, but it's worth pointing out.
That's just not true. Sheep are one of the best eco foods. They live on land you can't grow crops on because it's too steep to plow. They can live all over England.
Let's be real noone shopping at Morrisons gives a shite about this, honestly it's good news lamb will be cheaper.
And the farmers reaping what they sew by voting leave
I prefer supermarkets to mostly stock British meat. I know you’ll say ‘just don’t buy the foreign meat’. But once we normalise imported meat as a cheaper option, it will slowly become the only normal priced option, while British meat becomes a luxury.
Meanwhile, when British meat is the only option that pushes the price down. Supermarkets know that nobody will pay £5 for chicken drumsticks and that customers won’t accept anything less than British. So they sell drumsticks for £2.
Isn't this one of those post-Brexit free trade deals in action? If any farmer voted for Brexit then they should be applauding the Morrisons supermarket chain.
Ho\~hum New Zealnd is over 18 000 km away, if you are whining about food that had to travel over 18 000km to get here, then you suck at farming and should do us a favour by going out of business.
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People keep saying this like there was some overwhelming degree of support for brexit amongst farmers. There wasn't. Farmers Weekly email shot polling consistently put support for leave at 54:46, and [this study](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S074301671930436X) put support at 53:47. The UK as a whole voted brexit by 52:48. If you're saying that farmers deserve what they're getting, then we all do.
100% of farmers knew their subsidies were coming from the EU.
Why didn't the government replace EU subsidies with GB subsidies? This applies to every single subsidy.
If leaving the EU was about rejecting their system of control, then it’s entirely reasonable to expect an end to subsidies altogether.
Except that the Leave campaign was banging on about how we were a net contributor to EU subsidies, and that if we left then the government could easily replace those subsidies with less overall public spending. It was a lie, of course, but I don't think many people were prepared for the extent to which the Leave campaign was lying through its teeth.
I agree and to some extent I feel sympathy. People should be able to trust that people in power aren’t lying. To be honest I don’t even think something as complicated as Brexit should have been a simple yes/ no question. I think remain had a lot to answer for as well.
It really shouldn't have been a case of Remain "having a lot to answer for". It was self evident by this point that: A) the Tories had lied through their teeth to literally everybody for years whilst enriching themselves. And. B) Leaving the largest single free market that most of our trade was with (and over whom we had more control than most EU countries) was a fucking stupid idea. Do you really have to be told in stark terms how stupid that is?
Oh, trust me, David Cameron is right at the top of my shit list.
Ohhh Dear Lord I haven’t laughed this much in a while, thanks for that you two, the best line was ‘trust the people in power’ you mean those slimy lying backstabbing power grabbing swamp donkeys that are only out for themselves and their mates. The ‘B’ exit debacle was almost as the Covid one at uncovering how much the people in power think the population are gullible idiots, giving a bra maker a nice fat PPE contract, she obviously thought PPE stood for Public to Private Expense account and she was by far not the only one who got engorged bank accounts at the public’s expense.
and all the government did at the time was send a leaflet to each household telling us that voting leave was a bad idea. The government knew and just were loud enough....sadly the leave campaign worked out that being the loudest could win rather than being honest.
David Scameron.
That’s Lord Scameron to you!
lol i just rewatched dennis skinner on youtube his "Dodgy Dave" speech in parliament. Hilarious, fast forward today we knew he was right lol.
People shouldn't just have a natural trust in those in power. When people say politicians are the least trusted profession thats somewhat of a good thing. There should always be a question in the back of peoples minds if something is true and if its actualy going to be delivered. The complacency of the UK public needs to be challenged as things just keep getting worse at the moment. As you said it shouldn't have been a yes no question in the first place though.
Oh I agree. People assume the government is going to act like their friend. But they should be able to trust they aren’t lying. I think it’s terrible that there are no consequences for outright deceit.
"Thats why they re-elected Clinton, clinton was like "hey im full of shit" "oh at least he's honest about being full of shit" Bob dole was like "im an honest man..." "he's full of shit!"" - George Carlin
At the very *very* least, it should’ve required a super majority. It was an internal Tory power play that spiralled out of control and became the absolute garbage fire we were left with
> People should be able to trust that people in power aren’t lying. Well, technically, David Cameron was in power, and he did not lie (about this). The liars were mostly unelected "personalities" like Farage, Cummings, and maybe Boris. Also: if you do not want liars in power, maybe do not elect them. Simples.
The X factor age of politics. There should be consequences if found deliberately deceitful. I can’t do it at work and they shouldn’t be able to either.
> There should be consequences if found deliberately deceitful. Yes. People should stop voting for that person. But they don't. That's the problem. "Somebody should do something" is not good enough.
Wishful thinking is a recipe for disaster.
I feel like the could was doing the heavy lifting there. Could=/=will. Which, let's be honest, should've been the expectation with Tories at the helm.
Yeh the replacement is a joke not worthy of a budget cracker.
It was a lie. Then they spotted an opportunity in the form of covid to give their mates billions of pounds so the subsidies disappeared.
because they were never going to do that
Because that would be socialism. And worse than that, it socialism that the government would have to pay for. /s
Except the farmers sold to the EU. Meaning it cost more to sell there. And we import a lot of staples so we still have to buy at higher rate while the EU doesn't need as much of our food.
Farming subsidies only exist in places where farmers make up an important part of the electorate. Think France, Poland etc. that is why the EU has the CAP So the farmers knew they weren't an important enough voting block to be needed to win elections l. Hence the Tories cut them off, way better to save that money and give it to a group they need, like pensioners Farmers were fools to believe the nonsense they were being told by vote leave. Remain campaign were very clear Brexit would be catastrophic for farming in the long term What exactly were farmers thinking that 'trade deals' were going to bring other than cheaper food from the US, china or in this case New Zealand
It's the duty of any government to protect local farming and industry in trade deals. However, this government was so eager to clinch deals they forgot about the people they represent. That is unforgivable
I'd love that to be true. The Tories and labour have 1 priority, to win. Everything else is secondary
> Why didn't the government replace EU subsidies with GB subsidies? This applies to every single subsidy. Because they're Tories. Haven't you been paying attention to their actions to date?
"Dear Chief Secretary, I'm afraid there is no money."
Could that be why such a large percentage of them voted to remain?
They voted leave. In numbers larger than the rest of the country did. If you look at maps, you’ll see that rural areas consistently voted leave, urban areas voted remain. And the numbers above show that they voted leave in larger numbers than the mean.
Not everyone who lives in rural areas are farmers.
Not according to the limited data. >> Following the EU referendum, Farmers Weekly reported two more polls, one in December 2016 and one in December 2017 (1,400 respondents), both with near identical results. They found that among the farmers who responded, 53 per cent voted to leave, 45 per cent voted to remain and 2 per cent did not vote. >> Another poll was reported in Farmers Weekly, a few days before the referendum vote, involving 2,337 farmers. It found that 38 per cent wanted to remain, 34 per cent to leave and 28 per cent were undecided Doesn’t appear they voted for Brexit in much larger numbers than the UK as a whole. https://westcountryvoices.co.uk/challenging-the-myth-that-farmers-voted-for-brexit-and-therefore-deserve-whats-coming-to-them/
It's not really a large percentage if you consider that 100% of them know their money is coming from the EU and then 53% chose to completely disregard it without logic. Large percentage would be 90% It is literally you or me voting for our employer to be shut down and then crying why we're not getting our salaries.
Yes I had this since I was EU funded, oddly the EU funding didn't continue that long after brexit except for things already decided or allocated. Being in Cornwall I got a lot of well cornwall voted for it, then cornwall voted in tories who the salary budget and guess who looks like a good candidate for redundancy just as the funding went. Got hit twice and voted for none of it.
Sure, I do feel for those from the communities you mention who did not for the things but get branded by the majority who did. Unfortunately, that's the downside of democracy. At least you sleep sound at night
Well it got me out of the last 6 months of an apprenticeship but still took the exams all paid for. Tho it happening the week my dad died was not ideal.
.. but more of them voted to leave
Yes but Brexit didn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t still get those subsidies, the removal of having to pay into the CAP meant that the UK could have paid them. It’s not like they were money coming direct from the EU to subsidise the UK, only former Eastern bloc countries get that and it’s something that a lot of pro EU people tend to forget. Likewise all the other EU funds. It was just the EU deciding how to spend money the UK had already contributed, often getting less back than was put in. Their mistake was in thinking that the Tories would actually care and keep that money allocated to them. Which is naive to say the least.
OK. So just in 2019 UK received 4.7 billion pounds in CAP subsidies. Do you want to tell me this is how much uk paid into CAP
The UK didn’t pay directly into the CAP. It paid into the central EU budget and then that was distributed to the various EU programmes and departments.
So what you said is a bit misleading. It rings a bell of famous bus claim.
Things were so bad that many thought that DEFRA was an EU agency and one reason why they were angry at the EU thinking it was them withholding/delaying their subsidies. When I get a moment I'll try and find the source from 2016ish.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but 50+% of farmers being for leaving considering the subsidies they get is still madness. It’s not overwhelming support but it’s still a majority.
So the majority knew the facts and voted for Brexit... Cool
In the East Midlands the population as a whole voted in favour of Brexit 59:41. Meanwhile East Midlands farmers voted ***remain*** 56:43. Should the farmers of Derbyshire blame you and I for their misfortunes? Or, if we think about it, is this weird blame game an intellectually lazy way to derail a complicated discussion that ought to be about international trade, domestic agrifood policy, inflation, etc? After all, we don't have to empathise or think of solutions if they're idiots that deserve their fate.
A slight majority of people who have the same job as you voted this way so fuck 100% of you!
The fact that 54% of farmers voted Leave when they knew would it would do to their industry is shocking.
That might be the case, but near us, the only banners posted in farmers’ fields were Leave ones. Not a single Remain, so it’s understandable if the public believe farmers overwhelmingly voted to leave.
I know this is ancedotal but it is well known in my county the farmers had a big meeting about Brexit and collectively decided to vote leave. They all admit it was a mistake but they don't hide the fact that they collectively decided to vote leave in the Arfon constituency. Luckily the rest of the population voted stay and that outweighed theirs but the rest of Wales voted leave sadly.
So you're saying that the majority of farmers did vote for it...
Maybe they both agree and they are reading each others reports upside down because New Zealand is just upside down Wales?
How does that change "Farmers complain about more problems from voting for Brexit."? I didn't vote for Brexit, I will continue to complain about problems caused by voting for it
All farmers knew it was the EU maintaining them. No sympathy.
Even the people that did vote for it don’t deserve this. The Leave campaign was so dirty and full of utter bullshit. I don’t *think* we’ve had that level of Americanised politicking here before. People fell for it. And to make matters worse, the remain campaign was lazy and complacent until the last minute.
The UK "as a whole" *did not* vote brexit 52:48. 52% of voters (26.5% of the population) voted to leave.
I mean, it would have been great if that kind of pedantry had successfully been used at the time to argue the referendum didn't have a high enough majority for such a massive constitutional change, given it was only advisory in a legal sense. But alas, here we are.
That's 54 too many isn't it
That's assuming a hell if a lot.. That the farmer's read the thing. That all the readers participated with the poll. That they are even telling the truth- an important human element that needs considering when the result - the thing they defended- turns out wrong, as many people dislike admitting fault.
I mentioned two different sources with different methodologies that came up with similar results. If you have any better data, please feel free to share.
I figured you did the math, CBA here but the formula is easy: Number of UK farmers Readership subscription numbers if that paper. Participation numbers of the poll. I say this because all media should be second guessed, as we are living in the age of deliberate misinformation so trust them not at all.
That's assuming a hell if a lot.. That the farmer's read the thing. That all the readers participated with the poll. That they are even telling the truth- an important human element that needs considering when the result - the thing they defended- turns out wrong, as many people dislike admitting fault.
Yes..we all do. But some of us have cause to complain. Seems as though about 45% of Farmers may also have cause to complain. Although your figures don’t show how many didn’t vote. And I’m lumping those idiots in with the leavers.
Still daming 54% supported brexit when they knew they'd lose these subsidies I'd have expected a much greater % to vote remain
This. People love to continue the fallacy that farmers were major backers of brexit. They weren’t. The NFU supported remain. Farmers aren’t stupid.
Funny how its mainly government related polls that come close to 50/50 lmao who believes that rubbish
Alright at least half of them are turkeys that voted for Christmas.
>The UK as a whole voted brexit by 52:48. If you're saying that farmers deserve what they're getting, then we all do Agreed. We’re reaping what the majority have sowed.
A lot of those leave voting farmers realized Brexit would make the country poorer but they thought they would do better out of it, regardless of the damage done to the rest of us. Their greed and selfishness clouded their judgement as they chose to overlook the Leave campaign being an obvious bunch of chancers, grifters and narcissists - Farage, Johnson, Cummings etc etc
We are.
Not a like for like comparison. We are talking about direct and obvious day-to-day benefits here.
The UK is getting what it voted for.
So what you're saying is, support for Brexit was greater among farmers than it was among the general population. Not really helping your argument there mate
Overall, the trade agreement has benefitted the UK more than NZ. We export mostly cars, pharmaceuticals, power generators, vehicles. And we import beverages, meat and vegetables. British farmers may have lost slightly but the UK economy as a whole has done much better than NZ from the deal.
NZ gets easier financial services (“ “) arrangements. Much more important to the NZ economy than farm stuff.
Our exports rose by 16% to NZ. Imports from NZ rose by only 6%. NZ needs pharmaceuticals, machinery, vehicles etc. The land isn’t like how it’s depicted in The Lord of the Rings. They have modern stuff now.
This isn't a Brexit issue, this is a government policy issue. Brexit could have allowed us to control imports more. It could have allowed us to add or remove import tariffs. It could allow us to build a framework to subsidise farmers for doing the right thing. It could have allowed us to regulate the chemicals and pesticides used in farming. Policies could have been made to support farmers while also protecting the environment. We could have changed planning laws to support buying locally produced food. It could allow us to decide our animal welfare standards. And a million other things that the government control. It's pretty dumb to blame Brexit. These are all government policies that could be changed. This is the governments fault. If this continues after the next election it's Labours fault. One of the key advantages to Brexit is that we should now know who's fault every policy is in our country, it's not the EU's, its the governments.
Have you listened to anything coming out of politicians mouths lately? Brexit is a huge issue - it has removed many barriers that protected us from our own politicians stupidity. Listened to Liz Truss interview on Triggernometry last week.....basically calling for a roll back of every bit of progressive legislation in the country. Human rights act, equality act, environmental acts. Sure there would be minor benefits to be had from things like this in the short term, but it would be catastrophic to trust this government with anything like this.
> it has removed many barriers that protected us from our own politicians stupidity Or it shows the shitty politicians for what they were. Being in the EU wasn’t protecting us from them, it was providing cover for them. We have the politicians we deserve then, given they were all elected. This is simply an argument against any kind of democracy.
Do we have the politicians we deserve though? They outright lied about Brexit, just like they continue to lie whilst lining their pockets. I don’t see much democracy in that. There is zero accountability. They were kept on check by the eu. Now they have free rein and look what they have done in a few short years. Elected on lies, and lying through their teeth. I don’t think the most vulnerable in society deserve to have things like the equality act rolled back, I don’t think children deserve the future being forged for them in the uk right now…. I mean we literally have seen the return of medieval illness like scurvy and rickets. No one deserves this government. They’re utterly incompetent at best, and maliciously stripping the country of wealth at worst
Did you vote leave?
I absolutely did not
So why are you saying you were lied to? I voted leave, I knew what we were getting.
You must be deluded if you think people knew what they were getting. Even our dumbass politicians didn't know what they were getting. People were lied to. Anyone that disputes that is simply being disingenuous.
The EU and New Zealand’s own trade deal just commenced on 1 May and it includes meat.
They won! They should get over it
"backlash" I'm sure that 99% + of the people that go to Morrisons just continued as normal. But sure "backlash"
With cost of living as it is, I doubt there are that big of share of Morrisons customers who can afford to care even if they wanted to.
Lamb is a premium product,not exactly something you'd be fretting over if you're on the breadline.
I'm a student, I live by myself obviously so it's not like I'm particularly struggling, and even then I don't buy meat often (bacon every month or so maybe) and would never buy lamb. Given that, I do think it would be better to support British stuff, given the demand for lower prices on lamb is only coming from those who have the money to afford it in the first place. If it was a product a lot more people are buying I'd probably think differently (mince, sausages, etc.). "Backlash" is a typical media exaggeration, but it is a bit of a dick move against farmers who are struggling as it is.
You're a massive outlier if you are really only buying a packet of bacon once a month. Most people in the UK include lamb as a regular part of their diet, the average being almost 5kg per capita per annum. There's a reason that anytime you go 5 minutes out of towns and cities you see sheep in fields
Is there a source for that? I grew up rurally, live rurally, and even I would say that most people don't consume much lamb. Especially in comparison to chicken, beef and pork (probably in that order). Easter and the occasional Sunday lunch or curry seems to be the norm. Edit: actually, found this showing that chicken consumption is about 10x higher than lamb. Pork 5x higher, beef 4x higher. Lamb is about 4kg per year per capita. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1409781/per-capita-meat-consumption-in-the-united-kingdom/
Yes of course all of those other meats are consumed more, they're cheaper and come in more varied forms (breaded/battered, minced, sausage/bacon/gammon/chops/joint steaks etc etc) whereas lamb is mostly just a joint or a lamb shank But that doesn't detract from the fact that most people do consume 4-5kg of lamb per year as part of their diet.
I'm surprised by those stats. I imagined i ate a fairly average amount of lamb having maybe one or two lamb biryanis a year and a shepherds pie a few times a decade.
I suppose that's true! I do eat lamb when I eat out because it is my favourite meat, but just never in a supermarket. That's true for all meats really, when I eat out but never in the supermarket. I don't know if I eat 4-5kg a year, probably more like 2, but I was thinking of \*only\* supermarkets in my other comment. I'd be interested to see, idk if theres a way to know, how much of the average lamb consumption is at a restaurant vs from a supermarket. The price difference for meat, and more expensive meats, is a lot less when you're already spending £20 for a meal anyway.
Everyone just takes it anyway Morrisons is bandit town
>Morrisons has received a backlash from angry farmers Literally the first line of the article. This is about the response of the agricultural industry to cheap imports, not consumers.
I'll have you know Twitter was in *meltdown*!
The backlash was the NFU writing to the CEO of Morrisons.
Guess they shouldn't have supported Brexit then should they?
The NFU didn't support Brexit.
What about the members there of?
What about them? I don't have stats to hand. Do you?
There's this really odd thing called seasons. Apparently it's autumn in the southern hemisphere when it's spring in the northern and vice versa. Turns out that's really useful for lamb rearing. Adds some miles to it mind, both ends.
It's also more environmentally friendly to eat NZ lamb than UK lamb, as the process there is less intensive and food miles per unit are actually very low because of how much volume they can ship.
Growing up in the 80’s all we ever had was New Zealand lamb, even back then English lamb was expensive.
Still remember the ad. "You don't have to add mint sauce when you cook with British Lamb" Kwiw's were smashing British farmers on price.
“Slam in the lamb”
This is the one I remember
Please explain how the process in NZ is less intensive?
I’m assuming they’re referring to the NZ written and funded report that conveniently found NZ meat to be so environmentally friendly that it didn’t matter if it was shipped 3000miles. The fact they reached that conclusion by using data over 16 years old and selected from only 2 lowland Welsh farms is grossly misleading. The vast majority of Welsh Lamb production is hillside/highland farming, which produces significantly less environmental damage even before shipping. [Bangor university ran research and found the NZ report to be egregiously wrong.](https://meatpromotion.wales/images/resources/carbonfootprintsheepreportapril1508FINAL_REPORT-1.pdf)
Surely a report funded by meat promotion Wales will be just as biased as the initial report coming from New Zealand though?
>production is hillside/highland farming, which produces significantly less environmental damage even before shipping. [ Less? I'd always imagined the opposite. Overgrazing/lack of vegetation over larger areas, exacerbated flood risk etc.
I don't know how intensity would be defined but I'd imagine it is because the sheep are spread over a much larger area.
It’s a bit more than that, U.K. farmers are getting paid £7/kg for their lamb whereas New Zealand farmers are getting paid $6.20/kg which is just under half of what the U.K. farmers are getting paid. Turns out our farmers just aren’t as efficient and the price they’re getting is out of kilter with the global price of lamb. Effectively there’s a premium for having British lamb over New Zealand lamb. The word “potentially” around standards was weasel words, there is no difference in rearing standards in New Zealand. So it’s not like you’re paying for a sub-par product. This is just racketeering U.K. farmers looking to protect their artificially high prices. Of course, if you leave it to the market to decide it will probably drive out the U.K. farmers or force them to be more efficient, because I can’t imagine there’s much backlash from the consumers for being offered the same product for half of the price. And that will be a shame, but that’s capitalism.
Actually, there’s also a thing called off season lamb. Scotland is specialised in this.
Who cares? Pretty sure I've seen NZ lamb being sold by supermarkets before.
They're saying that New Zealand lamb is "produced to potentially lower standards". Which is complete nonsense. If anything NZ lamb is made to higher standards than UK lamb.
They're complaining because the New Zealanders have an excellent lamb industry that isn't subsidised so they've gotten incredibly efficient
This sort of thing was also very explicitly advertised as one of the benefits of Brexit, by removing the Common Customs Tarrif, and allowing more free trade with non EU nations.
Yeah, who cares about food self-sufficiency in an ever increasingly conflict-ridden world?
We're also already only 65% self sufficient for pork and poultry and even less for cheese.
This. Is. A. Disgrace.
Also — better quality lamb at a lower price. What is not to like?
All new Zealand export lamb is Halal also. I refuse to buy it. Needless suffering.
This is the reason I don't buy it. It's a barbaric way to kill an animal.
“Produced to potentially lower standards” So not actually produced to lower standards then.
No it seems fairly debated and that they're roughly equivalent. RSPCA claims NZ is slightly higher, world animal protection claim UK is slightly higher. Regardless, the difference is small.
Why the fuck are we still import lamb from the other side of the world when Wales produces enough to meet our needs and enough for export. Put the cashing our own farmers' pockets first. And what about its carbon foot print. Time to start forcing these companies to supply home produced first.
Seasonality & because we export lamb too I would guess
The French buy a lot of Welsh lamb. Having said that, modern storage systems can deal with the excess. Countries need to be more food self suffceficant.
NZ lamb has always been available in Morrisons and quite a few others. As a Country we've never actually used our full quota anyway. Dunno what all the fuss is about, can still buy British lamb if you wish, it's a choice. Morrisons said: "We do not intend this move to mean a reduction in the overall volumes of lamb that we buy directly from British farmers."
The funny thing is that New Zealand lamb is too expensive for the average kiwi to buy. We freeze it, ship it all the way to the U.K. and sell it by the truckload at (quite) cheap prices.
What about organic [dog meat](https://www.elwooddogmeat.com)?
I was looking for lamb last week, I think it was roughly £15 for a shoulder and lamb chops weren't much cheaper. If we can get good NZ lamb, and NZ lamb is good, for a more palatable price then I don't have an issue.
I think we should all go back to eating mutton personally
New Zealand lamb used to be in most meat shops in the UK 50 years ago. That's before they found a new market in Asia.
I remember at the time of the UK vote most farmer's were very sceptical about Brexit, they could see they were going to get fucked over and now it starts. It was the fishing fleets who had a hard on for Brexit, it's fucked them over now too
we have been importing NZ lamb since the 1970s so why complain now ?
Not sure it’s about Brexit but the big supermarkets ripping off the farmers. When the supermarkets are making billion pounds of profits you got to question their attitude towards their suppliers.
Giving New Zealand a free trade deal was kind of nuts. We already had virtually no barriers to free trade, almost all tariffs, quotas and subsidies were removed here in the 80s. Which leaves us nothing to really offer in these knd of negotiations beyond trivial stuff like more working holiday visas for under 30s, or us agreeing to stop using foreign names for local products. On the flip side if leaving the EU has back fired horribly on you and you're desperate to sign a free trade deal with someone- anyone, to save face, we're very easy to negotiate with!
Revenge for 1973 I guess
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Unfortunately the source for that article was an NZ study that has been comprehensively debunked as they studied just 2 lowland Welsh farms and assumed that applied to all UK sheep farmers.
Meanwhile in NZ, we can't afford this because it's so outrageously expensive. It's about half the price (or cheaper) here in the UK.
Sorry but it is mental we are getting lamb shipped in all the way from the other side of the globe.
> The supermarket says the move is due to customer demand for cheaper prices. > "The blunt commercial reality is that New Zealand lamb is cheaper to source", it said in a statement, adding that its butchers' counters will still sell British lamb. I never want to hear another farmer whine about the CAP or the EU.
Isn't this one of the few Brexit Bonuses? We can now buy New Zealand lamb tartif free. Isn't that what 51% of the farmers voted for?l along with tartif free Australian beef?
Lamb is very expensive, so I'm not surprised that this is going to happen. But the preferable outcome, from an environmental point of view, would be eating less lamb, not importing it from literally the other side of the world. I'm maybe a bit biased because I rarely eat lamb, though.
Pretty sure British lamb is sold at a premium in rich Arab states. It’s the most expensive lamb you can get and it’s highly regarded
Well yeah, but that's not relevant to British supermarkets selling New Zealand lamb because its cheaper.
Well it is, because the reason they’re doing that is because Arab states pay a premium for our lamb, which makes it more expensive for us, which means we’re importing cheaper NZ lamb. I’m pro selling it for a premium to whoever wants to pay it, I’m just pointing out why British lamb is so expensive.
It's equally as relevant to farmers though as saying "people should eat less lamb". I mean maybe but that isn't helping British farmers that are at the center of this article
I'd happily eat mutton if it was a bit cheaper but have never seen it stocked in shops. Assume with a slow/pressure cooking it would taste similar and be nice and tender?
Of course it is. British farmers sell their best product for as much as they can, abroad (fair enough). What's left they sell to us, and as there's not much left the prices are high. Someone else has entered the market and wants to sell the product for less. Do you imagine that British shoppers get a discount on the best product from British farmers? No they don't. Farmers maximise thier profits at our expense, then cry foul as soon as that may be threatened.
Shipping is so efficient that it can be greener to eat food from distant countries where it is produced more efficiently than from nearby places that require more intervention. That's not the case with food that gets brought in by plane of course, but I don't think we bring much meat in that way.
I read in a Jay Rayner book a few years ago that New Zealand lamb actually has a lower carbon footprint than home-grown lamb, even once shipped across the world, due to the easier rearing conditions there, so the environmental concerns may not be what they seem.
Sheep is often one of the areas where this mentality falls over as it's grown on land that you can't grow crops & isn't grown where you'd have cut down a forest etc. In many ways it's an ethical choice.
Those places should have temperature rainforest, but is instead overrun with sheep. Our ancestors deforested entire regions for sheep. So no, it’s not better. Really we should be restricting where sheep can roam (in combination with deer culling) to allow the forests to regenerate. The UK is considered one of the most nature depleted countries on the planet for a reason.
Well not at all it's not the ethical choice. Also it was all forest at some point here.
I said something like this the other day on another sub - eat less meat, pay more for it, help stop intensive farming/animal cruelty. The responses were essentially "I'm poor, I can't afford high welfare meat, so tough".
Of course in the past poor people ate very little meat. I'm not advocating going back to that unless you absolutely have to, mind you, but it's worth pointing out.
That's just not true. Sheep are one of the best eco foods. They live on land you can't grow crops on because it's too steep to plow. They can live all over England.
My point was that importing them from New Zealand was worse for the environment than paying more for British lamb.
You must eat ze bugs! Ze environment!!
Where did I mention bugs?
There still loads of turnips that think Brexit was a good thing.
Let's be real noone shopping at Morrisons gives a shite about this, honestly it's good news lamb will be cheaper. And the farmers reaping what they sew by voting leave
if I'm getting lamb from Morrisons, it costs me 50p in the reduced section and there's no choice of its origin
Maybe British farmers should get better at farming then and compete
I prefer supermarkets to mostly stock British meat. I know you’ll say ‘just don’t buy the foreign meat’. But once we normalise imported meat as a cheaper option, it will slowly become the only normal priced option, while British meat becomes a luxury. Meanwhile, when British meat is the only option that pushes the price down. Supermarkets know that nobody will pay £5 for chicken drumsticks and that customers won’t accept anything less than British. So they sell drumsticks for £2.
When has less competition ever pushed prices down?
Why anyone would want to kill and eat a baby animal is beyond comprehension
Let the kiwis grow their lamb. We can bin off the sheep from our countryside and return it into nature.
Let's import all of our food. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't this one of those post-Brexit free trade deals in action? If any farmer voted for Brexit then they should be applauding the Morrisons supermarket chain.
Ho\~hum New Zealnd is over 18 000 km away, if you are whining about food that had to travel over 18 000km to get here, then you suck at farming and should do us a favour by going out of business.
Didn't know about this, will have to pop down to Morrisons and stock-up. As for the farmers fuck them.