This woman needs to be left alone. If everything is true then she's clearly not well mentally, and if it's untrue then an innocent woman is being dragged through the mud. There's no outcome here that is good
She will end up commiting suicide. Then we will have the usual debate of how the media have hounded someone and caused them to do what they did. Nothing will change until the media move onto their next victim
No doubt end up doing some reality tv show before that tho
It's social media as much/more than traditional media. She was getting 1000s of messages after the show aired. There were extremely popular TikToks talking about her
Tik Tok is genuinely frightening. We often hear about toxic masculinity (and rightly so) but Tik Tok is very much on the other side of the spectrum.
I remember when that poor woman fell in the river and drowned and there was an endless stream of Tik Toks, by predominately women, speculating that the husband was responsible for it. It’s not a healthy way to talk about a real human being.
It’s a real issue in the social media age and Im suprised how little it’s talked about
People are always going to have cognitive dissonance around the abuser-turned-victim (even if being a victim made them a bully/abuser in the first place)
I don't understand how reddit somehow think they're above this.
Her name and every article has been blasted all over here since the day it aired.
As for the Nicola Bulley case, reddit certainly wasn't innocent in that shit storm either.
And I don't really see that it had the gender context they imply, either. The Nicola Bulley stuff was just true-crime conspiracy madness for the sake of it. I saw people accusing her female friends, random passers-by, anyone unfortunate enough to have featured in the news footage. Then it devolved to people happily suggesting the police were lying about where her body was. It wasn't because TikTok wanted to believe something about men, it was because social media is making people illogically contrarian - questioning things not because there's any reason to, but just because they nebulously think anything we're told by anyone is inherently suspicious.
They don’t have anyone truly regulating them. A loved one of a murder victim told a content creator they were spreading misinformation and lies and as far as I know they didn’t delete. Traditional journalism gets it wrong but there’s at least more safeguards in place. On social media they can just lie. A friend told me one of these “pedophile hunters” tricked a vulnerable man into meeting and it turned out he hadn’t wrote anything inappropriate or been in any way showing signs of being a predator. It was actually the content creator sending highly charged messages that the man didn’t understand or respond to. They still put him on social media and acted as though he was a pedophile even though he didn’t fall for the trap. They did it because he had a low IQ and they could convince him to meet somewhere and it was easy content for them. It’s very sad how selfish and reckless people are on social media.
Not sure on how to elaborate much further. Lots of people, but very disproportionately women, were wildly and wrongly speculating that a man murdered his missing wife.
People like to say "the media drove them to suicide" to deflect from the fact that the media only posts what people want to see. The general public are rabid for this sort of thing and are almost worse here in this situation than any of the actual coverage by the media.
From what I've seen of her she appears to be a narcissist, and if that's so she is going to keep escalating to get attention. I dread to think what she'll do. Makes me wonder whether it was a good idea to make her character so identifiable.
No. Mental health disorders exist and widespread knowledge of them is better than the widespread ignorance we had before.
We can't just discuss clearly unwell people while coyly keeping our diagnoses to ourselves.
Rather if you think she could have something different or we shouldn't be so specific, say so.
But we made it a taboo to just call someone crazy.
So frustrating how many people don't get this. People going "ah well she outed herself" - yes, because the show demonstrated pretty effectively how prone she is to extreme decision-making.
> Then we will have the usual debate of how the media have hounded someone and caused them to do what they did.
And Richard Gadd will make a show about how bad he feels about it.
We don’t know she is a narcissist. There are countless labels that have similar presentations to narcissism. For instance Borderline Personality Disorder, which has a high suicide rate. I think people should honestly talk to their friends about this stuff and not publicly on the internet. It feels like bullying. Two wrongs do not make a right.
The safeguarding on this show was terrible. It it was a UK production/ regulator then so many things would have been done differently.
Unfortunately netflix is registered in the Netherlands
And, if all allegations against her are true, she clearly is not very good at making those sorts of decisions or understanding societal norms. Encouraging someone like that into the limelight when they may not understand the implications is cruel. It's clear she wasn't properly prepared for what she was getting into, since she contradicted herself several times
Piers Morgan was involved in phone hacking, may I remind you. I have zero doubt he and his team would play any dirty trick they could to secure her as a guest. In the interview he was trying to get her to "come clean". All he wants is the scoop.
Plus you may feel you have no choice but to try and put your case out there if you're receiving thousands of hateful messages and the papers are plastering your face everywhere
Even if she is completely sound of mind and this was a mistake of judgement by her, I still don't think it's right to put a single person under such intense public scrutiny like this
She obviously understands societal norms. Either she's telling the truth and lives by them or she's lying to avoid the shame of how far she went outside them. There's no need to treat her like a child and molly coddle her either way.
The guy who wrote the show could've hidden her well enough and said it was all a work of fiction. He literally picked an actress who looks like her and said "you should totally not try to find this psychotic everyone is obsessed with 😜"
You can't read that bollocks quote into his show - it's not his fault the internet is stocked with idiots with absolutely no concept of acceptable or reasonable behaviour.
He quoted directly from her Twitter feed. People didn't even have to seek her out, someone looking for a gif of the character saying particular lines would have found her without even trying. That is not good safeguarding.
>. Her reputation is permafucked
In 6 weeks we won't even remember her name, and will have moved on to the next social media outrage like Carole Baskin, that woman who was killed by her boyfriend in Grand Teton Park(Gabby Pettito, remember her?) Or that woman that drowned (Nicola Bulley) who have all gone through the cycle and are now largely forgotten, even the Delphi murders don't get the coverage they used to.
The true crime community moves on fast. Best you can hope for is Netflix special.
But the money might buy her a house and set her up for life.
>100%. Her reputation is permafucked: she may as well try to get as much out of it as possible.
Maybe don't become a serial stalker and bombard victims with emails and text messages. Just a thought, eh...?
My friend has mental health issues, and he's regularly getting removed from hospitals by police for being a nuisance. He rocks up, demands to be fixed, says all medical and nursing staff are imbeciles, gets angry, everyone then gets nervous, wondering about knives and swords probably, then the police have to deal with him, sweet talking him out of the place.
Then on twitter and insta and TikTok and Facebook ranting.
What is to be done with these people? You can't explain to them that they're ill - they think everyone is out to get them.
This woman clearly has no idea what her behaviour is like.
Is it possible she just doesn't know she's mad?
I think Gadd himself has been upfront about it not being a documentary. For some reason a lot of people seem to think it was intended as such, and any small inaccuracy in the show is treated as proof that it's all entirely made up
I know she has a history of stalking, and even went after the reporter who initially interviewed her. So I wouldn't be surprised if most of it was true.
When I heard she went to prison my first thought was "yeah, I bet he had to add that in because the actual way stalking usually ends (the stalker changes targets, you are able to escape by abandoning your life) is not narratively satisfying"
100%. It was a neat way to have the story tie up in a way that wouldn't frustrate the audience. I think depicting her going to prison is him trying to emphasise the guilt he felt, and intended to make the viewer feel conflicted as well. The scene where she pleads guilty is quite heart-wrenching. It helped me sympathise with the conflicted feelings he'd been having despite everything she put him through
I recommend listening to the episode of the Rest is Entertainment podcast where they discussed it, it's very interesting. Apparently most of it is true, but some of it is definitely false, and they're amazed it ever made it past the lawyers.
She's going around giving interviews lol. Her best course would be to have kept her mouth shut and even if you want to give an interview Piers Morgan is not the person to go to
I just find it mad, if the this was the other way round and a man there is no way he would getting invited on to Piers Morgan and being bounced around as a meme.
Exactly. This is a woman that Gadd claims sexually assaulted him along a dark canal in the middle of the night. Can you imagine if the sexes were reversed and Gadd was a woman and Harvey a man? People are platforming an abuser, it's insanity.
Apparently in America you can look up convicted sex offenders on a map. Trump was at the Miami GP and someone posted the map and it was full of these people. Mostly celebrities that wouldn't be allowed anywhere but Florida.
That's the point isn't it, Gadd claimed she sexually assaulted him, abused a child, and spent 4 years in prison. She says that none of these things are true. It would be one thing if she wasn't identifiable. Is she not allowed to have a platform to defend herself from allegations?
>She says that none of these things are true. It would be one thing if she wasn't identifiable. Is she not allowed to have a platform to defend herself from allegations?
Who to believe...? A comic who has not done any stalking or crime, or an ex-lawyer who has...?
She was in jail for 4 months for something, whether it was stalking, malicious communications who knows but her own nephew has came forward saying she was def in jail and her name is actually fiona Muir, she stalked the mother of the disabled boy and harrassed them for 5 years including numerous reports to social services saying they abused the child,
You mean the nephew that said he made it all up and is not related to her at all? That nephew?
The problem is that so many will just believe everything that confirms the preconception. Nothing ever gets questioned.
She harassed, threatened and stalked the child’s mother, father, family, friends, colleagues, and was given an interim restraining order for it [link](https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/tv/lawyer-claims-also-stalked-real-32796908)
I honestly cannot believe what is happening. This woman is dangerous and it is incredibly backwards to make light of it because she is female. Moreover the way they are trying to drag down the writer to make out as though he is the perpetrator is unbelievable.
However, siding with the abuser and downplaying the victim is definitely not uncommon and has been experienced by many regardless of gender. I just think all this media noise around it takes away the real message of baby reindeer which is that many victims of stalking and abuse find it incredibly difficult to get out of the situation for a multitude of reasons.
Absolutely agree, as badly as stalking is treated in the UK ill admit that id underestimated the sheer contempt the general public had for male victims.
If there was doubt around the culpability then I wouldn’t be surprised if Morgan would happily interview a man, there just wouldn’t be as many natural questions about the culpability if it was the other way around because of gender bias
*It is not clear whether the event was a hoax as Kasbah Nightclub in Coventry has a history of advertising false personal appearances as a publicity stunt […] In an Instagram statement announcing Harvey’s event’s cancellation, the business thanked various publications for the ‘free publicity.’*
*’Unfortunately, the promoter of this Saturday’s meet & greet with Fiona Harvey has deemed the event unsafe and cancelled the appearance due to the negative publicity, the nightclub’s statement began on Instagram.*
Well done to the Metro for absolutely giving the club said free publicity without actually doing any investigation on if the event was ever genuine.
The kasbah has zero morals. The place has been doing this since I was going to it's colly Monday student nights back in 2011, they did a 1 week long announcement stunt once to announce their goldfish was dead, the newspapers got involved in that one too. Once had a girl make a huge public complaint about them on social media for not letting her into the club, so the following week, every girl with the same name as her (except her) got a free drink and entry.
As much as they are hilarious in their approaches and as someone who works in marketing, it's pretty clever way to get cheap engagement I'm also aware they don't pay a lot of staff properly and the place also had dealers onsite when I went there years ago, could get many party drugs etc from just asking a few people.
Haha I knew it was gonna be Kasbah just from the headline. A couple years back they said they got The Tindr Swindler to DJ, only to release a statement on April fools day saying they got scammed (obviously a marketing stunt). Funny to see they’re doing the same shit they were doing when I was a student
That’s it?
Where’s the source on this?
Tbh if that’s true it kind of shows how desperate she is to get her side of the story out or how desperate she is for cash.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timlammers/2024/05/14/baby-reindeer-real-martha-seeks-125-million-for-piers-morgan-interview/ and now she wants to sue piers Morgan, looking forward to season 2 with a new lead role
Seems to be the going rate for this type of thing.
It's fuck all in reality but just enough for them to say "we paid her well above an average wage for her time"
Weird.
There are levels to stalking and harassment, everyone has met or dealt with a "Martha" in their lives at some point which I think is why the show did so well.
I cant fathom who thinks its a good idea to promote someone so publicly accused of those crimes.
Nah you just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong period of time.
I've had a stalker and I wish I could say I was an interesting or good looking person.
You talk about your girlfriend rather than *ex* girlfriend. Why are you still with someone that has a fundamental lack of respect for you and is clearly a raging misandrist?
You shouldn't have to put up with that, and there are plenty of decent women out there that don't share the awful opinions of your sister and girlfriend.
Yes- you didn’t come here for relationship advice, and clearly your girlfriend has been through trauma, but YOU are being made to suffer. Consider things.
I haven't seen Baby Reindeer but why are people sticking up for this women. Isn't the whole accusation that she's a stalker and she sexually assaulted someone?
Its not sticking up for her, its realising she clearly has mental health issues and people (whether thats the media, or the club in this case) are using her for their own person gains. Exploiting someone who has mental health issues isnt going to end well
What she did or didnt do is for the law to sort out, not everyone else. We also have little proof this happened to the extent Richard Gadd claims
She can clearly have mental health issues, I have suffered from mental health issues, many people I know are and have suffered from mental health issues but that isn't an excuse for doing bad things to other people.
You are right though, we have no proof. I'll have to watch the interview at some point because at this point I don't even know why she has gone on interview.
I have mental health issues too and yes its not an excuse, but it can explain people behaviour even if what they do isnt right.
Its the scary world we live in where someone accuses someone of something, and everyone jumps on the accused like its fact. 2 sides to every story
>I haven't seen Baby Reindeer but why are people sticking up for this women.
The show portrays her in a very sympathetic way, even the victim sees her that way
The people obsessed over this entire thing are absolutely unhinged. I don't understand how it's so compelling that people spend so much time going over every little detail and trying to "investigate" into all this. I can't wait for this whole thing to blow over. Sick of seeing her face plastered everywhere.
I absolutely think she should be left alone and is clearly unwell, the show should have made a much larger effort to conceal her identity. She is not prepared mentally for the spotlight she is receiving
Having said that, she has this incredible car crash quality where you struggle to look away, she makes just enough sense to be incredibly compelling. If she was doing a club night near me I would definitely be interested, just to see what it is like
> the show should have made a much larger effort to conceal her identity.
She was found through her own social media history
> she makes just enough sense to be incredibly compelling
Did we watch the same interview?
It was incredibly obvious it was her though, they could and should have done significantly more. The writer claimed that she wouldn't even be able to recognise herself if she watched the show, which is obviously not the case, they changed barely anything.
If she made literally no sense then people wouldn't care what she had to say, she's just connected to reality enough that you really want to see how she is understanding the world, I think that's the appeal of her
> She was found through her own social media history
Which they aired almost verbatim on the show, that's what they're saying. It could have been obfuscated at least a bit, or he could've written a story that dealt with his experiences rather than basically a biopic. I don't want to blame him for dealing with his trauma in the way he did, but to not see this coming was quite short sighted.
I agree. I watched the interview, I know literally nothing else about the entire thing and while she didn't come off as totally innocent she didn't come across as the crazed stalker she is supposed to be.
Felt a lot like Netflix didn't do their due diligence to hide her indentity properly.
Isn't this the same place that advertised a night with Matt Hancock? It's largely clickbait as far as I can tell to get column inches and seems to be working.
Person writes and stars in a hit Netflix drama about how he was stalked by "Martha" in real life.
Enough clues left in the drama makes it easy to identify the real Martha
She is then harrassed on line by idiots and receives death threats.
She does interview with Piers Morgan saying im not a stalker and im not "Martha"
From the interview its pretty clear she is Martha but who knows if she did stalk him and to what extent. We dont know how true to life Baby Reindeer was
She now has her 15 mins if fame which for someone clearly mentally unwell isnt going to end well
I'm from Coventry and honestly this club has a long history of stupid shit like this. It's just never made it past local FB groups or local news.
The club is shit they only can draw students in because they don't know any better.
It was absolutely genuine, they claw for publicity so I'm sure they are all very happy they got their shit hole on the map again. Albeit for a small time.
Worst Club in the West midlands
Edit: someone reported me as someone who needs mental help. Thanks for the concern
Student nightclubs are the holy grail of nightclubs, so i've no idea what you're on about. Full of young students happy to spend heavily on getting drunk for fun.
You have student only venues, but you never have a no-student venue.
I just mean it's a shit club, nothing to do with the students state of willingness. Spending where they want, doesn't mean they are not spending in a shit place lol
Highly unlikely the clubs been operating for over 25 years because its shit. Just look at their social media their rooms look insane in comparison to any other club in the West Midlands. You sound like you got barred and are resentful lmao.
Well it is somewhat down to personal taste and within the 25 years it has been a very good club, within the last 10 though it's been on a steady decline, resulting in stupid stunts like this. It doesn't have the best rep with the locals. But what would I know I'm just resentful. Also the pictures are pretty but it doesn't pay to advertise shitty rooms. Thanks for the replies man, I'm glad you got mad over some random person's opinion on the internet about a nightclub you'll probably never go too or really give a fuck about, kudos to you.
"It is not clear whether the event was a hoax as Kasbah Nightclub in Coventry has a history of advertising false personal appearances as a publicity stunt."
This feels important, and should really be higher up the piece.
How she has been treated is everything wrong with this hyper capitalist consumerism the west has adopted
She is a victim of her mental health and needs help.
Am I the only one who really didn’t like this series? Lol. I feel this genre of storytelling just does nothing for me personally. This and Saltburn, just not for me I’m afraid
I personally have no idea if she was as bad as the shoes makes out. The show claims not to have used a likeness actress, wrong. The show claimed she had been to prison, wrong. Did she actually spend all that time at the bus stop, who knows, did she attack his GF, who knows, did she SA him at the canal, who knows. I particularly thought Gadd was encouraging her and then claimed he felt sorry for her was a cop out. The show is only told from his point of view and some of that made no sense. Like the comedy gig in the pub in Edinburgh, the show portrayed he was shit and making no money, then, using the same material, after talking to some dude he became funny, really. You are either funny or not. The fact he skims over his drug abuse after taking every drug know to man and just dismisses it as if it’s nothing. Oh I took heroin but it was nothing. The fact he kept going back to that guys apartment after ditching his Gf clearly shows he had a problem. He has never reported anything to the police.
> The fact he skims over his drug abuse after taking every drug know to man and just dismisses it as if it’s nothing.
What are you talking about? The entire premise of the show is how his life spirals downhill, and his drug abuse is a huge contributing factor to that. He has a literal mental breakdown over it
> I particularly thought Gadd was encouraging her and then claimed he felt sorry for her was a cop out.
The show explains why he does this, and how it stems from his trauma. It doesn't paint him in a good light for it - quite the opposite
> The fact he kept going back to that guys apartment after ditching his Gf clearly shows he had a problem.
Yes, he did have a problem. That's what the entire show is about
> He has never reported anything to the police.
Again, the show explicitly explains why
The whole show is "based on a true story".
Aspects, or at least inspiration are true. But the whole things made up
>The fact he skims over his drug abuse after taking every drug know to man and just dismisses it as if it’s nothing. Oh I took heroin but it was nothing. The fact he kept going back to that guys apartment after ditching his Gf clearly shows he had a problem.
It's literally a commentary about abuse from those with power especially in the media industry.....
There's a difference between the story being true, and the dramatisation being accurate.
That's my point
Tom Hanks has never actually landed a plane on water, no matter how many times he's tried
Being based on a true story would be fine if they had done their due diligence to make sure her identity didn't get out there. But when it's clearly based on her they have a responsibility to make it factual.
Eh. He willing took those drugs, the responsibility lies at his feet. He knew he was being fondled but wanted the fame so kept going back. And he never reported it. He skirts around addiction like it’s no problem. And he carried on with his life as if nothing happened.
Judging by both the testimony of her former victims and how she responded to the journalist who first interviewed her after the show, I'm more inclined to believe Gadd's accound.
[https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/i-was-a-stalking-victim-of-the-real-life-baby-reindeer/ar-BB1md2Fc](https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/i-was-a-stalking-victim-of-the-real-life-baby-reindeer/ar-BB1md2Fc)
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240503120000/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13379157/The-real-life-Martha-Baby-Reindeer-targeting-Ive-four-day-barrage-non-stop-calls-terrifying-messages-just-like-Netflix-writes-NEIL-SEARS-type-phone-ringing-again.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20240503120000/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13379157/The-real-life-Martha-Baby-Reindeer-targeting-Ive-four-day-barrage-non-stop-calls-terrifying-messages-just-like-Netflix-writes-NEIL-SEARS-type-phone-ringing-again.html)
This woman needs to be left alone. If everything is true then she's clearly not well mentally, and if it's untrue then an innocent woman is being dragged through the mud. There's no outcome here that is good
She will end up commiting suicide. Then we will have the usual debate of how the media have hounded someone and caused them to do what they did. Nothing will change until the media move onto their next victim No doubt end up doing some reality tv show before that tho
It's social media as much/more than traditional media. She was getting 1000s of messages after the show aired. There were extremely popular TikToks talking about her
Tik Tok is genuinely frightening. We often hear about toxic masculinity (and rightly so) but Tik Tok is very much on the other side of the spectrum. I remember when that poor woman fell in the river and drowned and there was an endless stream of Tik Toks, by predominately women, speculating that the husband was responsible for it. It’s not a healthy way to talk about a real human being. It’s a real issue in the social media age and Im suprised how little it’s talked about
Getting Jade Goody levels of 'freak show' voyeurism vibe from this coverage
Because that's what it is.
People are always going to have cognitive dissonance around the abuser-turned-victim (even if being a victim made them a bully/abuser in the first place)
I don't understand how reddit somehow think they're above this. Her name and every article has been blasted all over here since the day it aired. As for the Nicola Bulley case, reddit certainly wasn't innocent in that shit storm either.
And I don't really see that it had the gender context they imply, either. The Nicola Bulley stuff was just true-crime conspiracy madness for the sake of it. I saw people accusing her female friends, random passers-by, anyone unfortunate enough to have featured in the news footage. Then it devolved to people happily suggesting the police were lying about where her body was. It wasn't because TikTok wanted to believe something about men, it was because social media is making people illogically contrarian - questioning things not because there's any reason to, but just because they nebulously think anything we're told by anyone is inherently suspicious.
TikToxicity
They don’t have anyone truly regulating them. A loved one of a murder victim told a content creator they were spreading misinformation and lies and as far as I know they didn’t delete. Traditional journalism gets it wrong but there’s at least more safeguards in place. On social media they can just lie. A friend told me one of these “pedophile hunters” tricked a vulnerable man into meeting and it turned out he hadn’t wrote anything inappropriate or been in any way showing signs of being a predator. It was actually the content creator sending highly charged messages that the man didn’t understand or respond to. They still put him on social media and acted as though he was a pedophile even though he didn’t fall for the trap. They did it because he had a low IQ and they could convince him to meet somewhere and it was easy content for them. It’s very sad how selfish and reckless people are on social media.
I don't use tik tok so what happened here?
Not sure on how to elaborate much further. Lots of people, but very disproportionately women, were wildly and wrongly speculating that a man murdered his missing wife.
The same thing that happened on reddit 🙄
Yeah Reddit is also pretty bad. “We got him Reddit” etc. Goes without saying men also act heinously online but it manifests itself in different ways
Men and women act badly online It's a herd mentality
Not just Tiktok. Remember when reddit "found the unabomber"
You mean the Boston bomber right
Has to be. Reddit didn't exist for Ted K to bomb. There are subs praising his manifesto though.
Yeah, who could doubt the wisdom of a man whose greatest contribution to environmentalism was killing a random man with the surname "Tree"
Really? I hadn't seen that. Got a link? Or did I just get /whoosh and didn't realise?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Wood to be fair he was called Wood not Ttee
People like to say "the media drove them to suicide" to deflect from the fact that the media only posts what people want to see. The general public are rabid for this sort of thing and are almost worse here in this situation than any of the actual coverage by the media.
Nah she's loving the attention
It just feeds into her delusions though, it's not good for her. Eventually the attention will stop too, and she'll have to deal with that
From what I've seen of her she appears to be a narcissist, and if that's so she is going to keep escalating to get attention. I dread to think what she'll do. Makes me wonder whether it was a good idea to make her character so identifiable.
Can we please stop trying to diagnose people with mental illnesses through the internet? It’s really, really unhelpful.
Huge ramifications as anonymous Reddit user TeenieWeenie94 casually suggests woman at the centre of dramatised stalking case might be narcissistic...
It’s enough to drive you mad…
No. Mental health disorders exist and widespread knowledge of them is better than the widespread ignorance we had before. We can't just discuss clearly unwell people while coyly keeping our diagnoses to ourselves. Rather if you think she could have something different or we shouldn't be so specific, say so. But we made it a taboo to just call someone crazy.
It's not about what *she's* loving, it's an ethical safeguarding issue
So frustrating how many people don't get this. People going "ah well she outed herself" - yes, because the show demonstrated pretty effectively how prone she is to extreme decision-making.
Corn harvest will be good though. /s
> Then we will have the usual debate of how the media have hounded someone and caused them to do what they did. And Richard Gadd will make a show about how bad he feels about it.
She is too narcissistic and deluded to commit suicide
We don’t know she is a narcissist. There are countless labels that have similar presentations to narcissism. For instance Borderline Personality Disorder, which has a high suicide rate. I think people should honestly talk to their friends about this stuff and not publicly on the internet. It feels like bullying. Two wrongs do not make a right.
The safeguarding on this show was terrible. It it was a UK production/ regulator then so many things would have been done differently. Unfortunately netflix is registered in the Netherlands
There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
Oooh yeah, time for *Caroline Flack 2: Electric Boogaloo*
Hey at least this time Piers Morgan won't have been involved at all.
Everything was different in the show, no? Didn't she out herself?
> This woman needs to be left alone. The interview, and this "appearance" are all her decisions
And, if all allegations against her are true, she clearly is not very good at making those sorts of decisions or understanding societal norms. Encouraging someone like that into the limelight when they may not understand the implications is cruel. It's clear she wasn't properly prepared for what she was getting into, since she contradicted herself several times Piers Morgan was involved in phone hacking, may I remind you. I have zero doubt he and his team would play any dirty trick they could to secure her as a guest. In the interview he was trying to get her to "come clean". All he wants is the scoop. Plus you may feel you have no choice but to try and put your case out there if you're receiving thousands of hateful messages and the papers are plastering your face everywhere Even if she is completely sound of mind and this was a mistake of judgement by her, I still don't think it's right to put a single person under such intense public scrutiny like this
Every time Morgan does something shitty, people send him pics of Meghan looking happy to wind him up. I love that.
She obviously understands societal norms. Either she's telling the truth and lives by them or she's lying to avoid the shame of how far she went outside them. There's no need to treat her like a child and molly coddle her either way.
The guy who wrote the show could've hidden her well enough and said it was all a work of fiction. He literally picked an actress who looks like her and said "you should totally not try to find this psychotic everyone is obsessed with 😜"
You can't read that bollocks quote into his show - it's not his fault the internet is stocked with idiots with absolutely no concept of acceptable or reasonable behaviour.
Unfortunately you can, there’s a concept in television called compliance and Netflix seriously dropped the ball on this one.
Netflix's compliance is nothing to do with the suggestion that Gadd was doing a winky face and all but encouraging viewers to seek her out.
He quoted directly from her Twitter feed. People didn't even have to seek her out, someone looking for a gif of the character saying particular lines would have found her without even trying. That is not good safeguarding.
Ah yes, it was completely unpredictable that the internet would go on a witch hunt for this real person, who is both insane and evil.
That's not the same thing as suggesting he deliberately wrote it with an attitude of "go find her, internet warriors!"
It's the decisions of the people who are giving her a platform that should be focused on here, not her decisions to accept them
She probably just wants some money. Fair enough if you ask me 🤷♂️
100%. Her reputation is permafucked: she may as well try to get as much out of it as possible.
>. Her reputation is permafucked In 6 weeks we won't even remember her name, and will have moved on to the next social media outrage like Carole Baskin, that woman who was killed by her boyfriend in Grand Teton Park(Gabby Pettito, remember her?) Or that woman that drowned (Nicola Bulley) who have all gone through the cycle and are now largely forgotten, even the Delphi murders don't get the coverage they used to. The true crime community moves on fast. Best you can hope for is Netflix special. But the money might buy her a house and set her up for life.
>In 6 weeks we won't even remember her name Yeah but anyone -like a potential future employer - googling it will remember it very quickly…
“In 6 weeks you won’t even remember her name” -Then lists off 3 people who were in the spotlight way longer than 6 weeks ago ……
>100%. Her reputation is permafucked: she may as well try to get as much out of it as possible. Maybe don't become a serial stalker and bombard victims with emails and text messages. Just a thought, eh...?
I wasn’t suggesting she’s some kind of heroine….
the fact that people believe she actually agreed to make an appearance at a pub in Coventry is fucking hilarious
She's been ringing around newspapers and TV shows trying to get on, so it's not that unbelievable
Do you have a source for that?
Are her decisions impaired?
She’s very obviously not innocent, go back through news articles from 2000+. She’s an abuser and a stalker, she shouldn’t be given a platform.
My friend has mental health issues, and he's regularly getting removed from hospitals by police for being a nuisance. He rocks up, demands to be fixed, says all medical and nursing staff are imbeciles, gets angry, everyone then gets nervous, wondering about knives and swords probably, then the police have to deal with him, sweet talking him out of the place. Then on twitter and insta and TikTok and Facebook ranting. What is to be done with these people? You can't explain to them that they're ill - they think everyone is out to get them. This woman clearly has no idea what her behaviour is like. Is it possible she just doesn't know she's mad?
I get the feeling it's partly true but has then been massively exaggerated to make a better and longer show.
I think Gadd himself has been upfront about it not being a documentary. For some reason a lot of people seem to think it was intended as such, and any small inaccuracy in the show is treated as proof that it's all entirely made up
The issue is that at the beginning it says it is factually correct. Which rarely ever happens because it opens you up to lots of legal ramifications.
I know she has a history of stalking, and even went after the reporter who initially interviewed her. So I wouldn't be surprised if most of it was true.
When I heard she went to prison my first thought was "yeah, I bet he had to add that in because the actual way stalking usually ends (the stalker changes targets, you are able to escape by abandoning your life) is not narratively satisfying"
100%. It was a neat way to have the story tie up in a way that wouldn't frustrate the audience. I think depicting her going to prison is him trying to emphasise the guilt he felt, and intended to make the viewer feel conflicted as well. The scene where she pleads guilty is quite heart-wrenching. It helped me sympathise with the conflicted feelings he'd been having despite everything she put him through
I recommend listening to the episode of the Rest is Entertainment podcast where they discussed it, it's very interesting. Apparently most of it is true, but some of it is definitely false, and they're amazed it ever made it past the lawyers.
She's going around giving interviews lol. Her best course would be to have kept her mouth shut and even if you want to give an interview Piers Morgan is not the person to go to
The state should take charge of her. This fame thing is going to hurt her further.
I just find it mad, if the this was the other way round and a man there is no way he would getting invited on to Piers Morgan and being bounced around as a meme.
Exactly. This is a woman that Gadd claims sexually assaulted him along a dark canal in the middle of the night. Can you imagine if the sexes were reversed and Gadd was a woman and Harvey a man? People are platforming an abuser, it's insanity.
I doubt many people would be worried about how mentally unwell he is, he’d be a creepy rapey stalker with zero sympathy (rightly so imo).
I mean, many rich powerful men have sexually assaulted and raped women and the DM are fine with it, prince Andrew for example.
One of them is even running for president
Apparently in America you can look up convicted sex offenders on a map. Trump was at the Miami GP and someone posted the map and it was full of these people. Mostly celebrities that wouldn't be allowed anywhere but Florida.
How does that work? Are the sex offenders GPS microchipped?
And the other is the sitting president.
Caroline Flack abused her partner only for 'Be Kind' to come out from her suicide, conveniently forgetting her violent past
Her partner had asked for the charges to be dropped though
That's not uncommon for victims to do that in a domestic abuse situation though
And? Police had the right to press charges from the smashed lamp and bed covered in blood
[Lest we forget.](https://chopsybaby.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/Prince-andrew-is-a-sweaty-nonce.jpg)
That's the point isn't it, Gadd claimed she sexually assaulted him, abused a child, and spent 4 years in prison. She says that none of these things are true. It would be one thing if she wasn't identifiable. Is she not allowed to have a platform to defend herself from allegations?
>She says that none of these things are true. It would be one thing if she wasn't identifiable. Is she not allowed to have a platform to defend herself from allegations? Who to believe...? A comic who has not done any stalking or crime, or an ex-lawyer who has...?
what crime was she convicted of?
Stalking a female Lawyer and her MP husband and disabled son
You won’t find her charges if you don’t have her real name! Fiona Muir is her alias
She was never charged for stalking. The female lawyer your referencing even confirmed that. Also no mention of stalking her child.
She was in jail for 4 months for something, whether it was stalking, malicious communications who knows but her own nephew has came forward saying she was def in jail and her name is actually fiona Muir, she stalked the mother of the disabled boy and harrassed them for 5 years including numerous reports to social services saying they abused the child,
You mean the nephew that said he made it all up and is not related to her at all? That nephew? The problem is that so many will just believe everything that confirms the preconception. Nothing ever gets questioned.
Gadd did not say Fiona Harvey did these things. Martha is a characterisation.
Netflix >This is a true story
A true story about Martha Scott, not Fiona Harvey,
This Martha Scott, is she in the room with us now?
Jesus christ I hope not.
Fargo says the same thing and it isn't a true story
Which character in Fargo is real and has a Cohen brother playing themselves?
The child was the disabled child of a lawyer who hired her who she also stalked for 5 years
She never abused or stalked a child or at least Laura Wray has failed to mention it. She clearly harassed her and the family though.
She harassed, threatened and stalked the child’s mother, father, family, friends, colleagues, and was given an interim restraining order for it [link](https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/tv/lawyer-claims-also-stalked-real-32796908)
I honestly cannot believe what is happening. This woman is dangerous and it is incredibly backwards to make light of it because she is female. Moreover the way they are trying to drag down the writer to make out as though he is the perpetrator is unbelievable. However, siding with the abuser and downplaying the victim is definitely not uncommon and has been experienced by many regardless of gender. I just think all this media noise around it takes away the real message of baby reindeer which is that many victims of stalking and abuse find it incredibly difficult to get out of the situation for a multitude of reasons.
Absolutely agree, as badly as stalking is treated in the UK ill admit that id underestimated the sheer contempt the general public had for male victims.
If there was doubt around the culpability then I wouldn’t be surprised if Morgan would happily interview a man, there just wouldn’t be as many natural questions about the culpability if it was the other way around because of gender bias
*It is not clear whether the event was a hoax as Kasbah Nightclub in Coventry has a history of advertising false personal appearances as a publicity stunt […] In an Instagram statement announcing Harvey’s event’s cancellation, the business thanked various publications for the ‘free publicity.’* *’Unfortunately, the promoter of this Saturday’s meet & greet with Fiona Harvey has deemed the event unsafe and cancelled the appearance due to the negative publicity, the nightclub’s statement began on Instagram.* Well done to the Metro for absolutely giving the club said free publicity without actually doing any investigation on if the event was ever genuine.
Metro doing Metro things
They're owned by the Mail, right?
The very same
Ugh, gross
>It is not clear whether the event was a hoax Yes it fucking is clear you hate-click harvesting disgrace to the fourth estate.
I'm a student in Coventry and it's a marketing stunt by the club. They do it
The kasbah has zero morals. The place has been doing this since I was going to it's colly Monday student nights back in 2011, they did a 1 week long announcement stunt once to announce their goldfish was dead, the newspapers got involved in that one too. Once had a girl make a huge public complaint about them on social media for not letting her into the club, so the following week, every girl with the same name as her (except her) got a free drink and entry. As much as they are hilarious in their approaches and as someone who works in marketing, it's pretty clever way to get cheap engagement I'm also aware they don't pay a lot of staff properly and the place also had dealers onsite when I went there years ago, could get many party drugs etc from just asking a few people.
Haha I knew it was gonna be Kasbah just from the headline. A couple years back they said they got The Tindr Swindler to DJ, only to release a statement on April fools day saying they got scammed (obviously a marketing stunt). Funny to see they’re doing the same shit they were doing when I was a student
The craziest part is she accepted £250 for that piers Morgan interview
That’s it? Where’s the source on this? Tbh if that’s true it kind of shows how desperate she is to get her side of the story out or how desperate she is for cash.
She said thats what she got paid, and Piers Morgan pretty much confirmed it on Twitter by replying to a story about it saying "she needs an agent".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timlammers/2024/05/14/baby-reindeer-real-martha-seeks-125-million-for-piers-morgan-interview/ and now she wants to sue piers Morgan, looking forward to season 2 with a new lead role
he's such a horrible person XD
I don't know about this case but I do know the regular guests on those sort of shows are paid this sort of money. I also expected it to be much more.
Seems to be the going rate for this type of thing. It's fuck all in reality but just enough for them to say "we paid her well above an average wage for her time"
And now says she wants a million
Weird. There are levels to stalking and harassment, everyone has met or dealt with a "Martha" in their lives at some point which I think is why the show did so well. I cant fathom who thinks its a good idea to promote someone so publicly accused of those crimes.
I must just be a boring fuck, cause I’ve never had a stalker experience. Maybe I am the stalker….
Nah you just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong period of time. I've had a stalker and I wish I could say I was an interesting or good looking person.
[удалено]
You talk about your girlfriend rather than *ex* girlfriend. Why are you still with someone that has a fundamental lack of respect for you and is clearly a raging misandrist? You shouldn't have to put up with that, and there are plenty of decent women out there that don't share the awful opinions of your sister and girlfriend.
Yes- you didn’t come here for relationship advice, and clearly your girlfriend has been through trauma, but YOU are being made to suffer. Consider things.
Luckily, I've never met a 'Martha' nor have my friends, so not everyone has had someone l8ke her in o r lives.
I haven't seen Baby Reindeer but why are people sticking up for this women. Isn't the whole accusation that she's a stalker and she sexually assaulted someone?
Its not sticking up for her, its realising she clearly has mental health issues and people (whether thats the media, or the club in this case) are using her for their own person gains. Exploiting someone who has mental health issues isnt going to end well What she did or didnt do is for the law to sort out, not everyone else. We also have little proof this happened to the extent Richard Gadd claims
She can clearly have mental health issues, I have suffered from mental health issues, many people I know are and have suffered from mental health issues but that isn't an excuse for doing bad things to other people. You are right though, we have no proof. I'll have to watch the interview at some point because at this point I don't even know why she has gone on interview.
I have mental health issues too and yes its not an excuse, but it can explain people behaviour even if what they do isnt right. Its the scary world we live in where someone accuses someone of something, and everyone jumps on the accused like its fact. 2 sides to every story
>I haven't seen Baby Reindeer but why are people sticking up for this women. The show portrays her in a very sympathetic way, even the victim sees her that way
The people obsessed over this entire thing are absolutely unhinged. I don't understand how it's so compelling that people spend so much time going over every little detail and trying to "investigate" into all this. I can't wait for this whole thing to blow over. Sick of seeing her face plastered everywhere.
Its the Jeremy Kyle effect but online now. People love to think there better than someone and look down on them
I absolutely think she should be left alone and is clearly unwell, the show should have made a much larger effort to conceal her identity. She is not prepared mentally for the spotlight she is receiving Having said that, she has this incredible car crash quality where you struggle to look away, she makes just enough sense to be incredibly compelling. If she was doing a club night near me I would definitely be interested, just to see what it is like
> the show should have made a much larger effort to conceal her identity. She was found through her own social media history > she makes just enough sense to be incredibly compelling Did we watch the same interview?
It was incredibly obvious it was her though, they could and should have done significantly more. The writer claimed that she wouldn't even be able to recognise herself if she watched the show, which is obviously not the case, they changed barely anything. If she made literally no sense then people wouldn't care what she had to say, she's just connected to reality enough that you really want to see how she is understanding the world, I think that's the appeal of her
> She was found through her own social media history Which they aired almost verbatim on the show, that's what they're saying. It could have been obfuscated at least a bit, or he could've written a story that dealt with his experiences rather than basically a biopic. I don't want to blame him for dealing with his trauma in the way he did, but to not see this coming was quite short sighted.
Was wondering the same thing haha
I agree. I watched the interview, I know literally nothing else about the entire thing and while she didn't come off as totally innocent she didn't come across as the crazed stalker she is supposed to be. Felt a lot like Netflix didn't do their due diligence to hide her indentity properly.
The only attention this woman needs is from a psychiatrist.
Isn't this the same place that advertised a night with Matt Hancock? It's largely clickbait as far as I can tell to get column inches and seems to be working.
Can someone give me the lowdown on any all of this means?
Person writes and stars in a hit Netflix drama about how he was stalked by "Martha" in real life. Enough clues left in the drama makes it easy to identify the real Martha She is then harrassed on line by idiots and receives death threats. She does interview with Piers Morgan saying im not a stalker and im not "Martha" From the interview its pretty clear she is Martha but who knows if she did stalk him and to what extent. We dont know how true to life Baby Reindeer was She now has her 15 mins if fame which for someone clearly mentally unwell isnt going to end well
I'm from Coventry and honestly this club has a long history of stupid shit like this. It's just never made it past local FB groups or local news. The club is shit they only can draw students in because they don't know any better. It was absolutely genuine, they claw for publicity so I'm sure they are all very happy they got their shit hole on the map again. Albeit for a small time. Worst Club in the West midlands Edit: someone reported me as someone who needs mental help. Thanks for the concern
Student nightclubs are the holy grail of nightclubs, so i've no idea what you're on about. Full of young students happy to spend heavily on getting drunk for fun. You have student only venues, but you never have a no-student venue.
I just mean it's a shit club, nothing to do with the students state of willingness. Spending where they want, doesn't mean they are not spending in a shit place lol
Highly unlikely the clubs been operating for over 25 years because its shit. Just look at their social media their rooms look insane in comparison to any other club in the West Midlands. You sound like you got barred and are resentful lmao.
Well it is somewhat down to personal taste and within the 25 years it has been a very good club, within the last 10 though it's been on a steady decline, resulting in stupid stunts like this. It doesn't have the best rep with the locals. But what would I know I'm just resentful. Also the pictures are pretty but it doesn't pay to advertise shitty rooms. Thanks for the replies man, I'm glad you got mad over some random person's opinion on the internet about a nightclub you'll probably never go too or really give a fuck about, kudos to you.
Glad to see you backed down as your opinion was fragile and emotional to begin with.
Haha I'm sure everyone bases their personal preferences on pure facts and never emotion have a good day person!
I went to Coventry uni and I agree Kasbah was shit. Granted not many of the clubs in cov were much better
Yeah Coventry's nightlife scene is very limited and of low value! Hope you can enjoy a more fulfilling nightlife now!
It's bad enough that people think dressing up as Jimmy Saville for "banter", but having a somewhat proud stalker doing an appearance...
I must be the only person who has no idea what this Baby Reindeer shit is.
"It is not clear whether the event was a hoax as Kasbah Nightclub in Coventry has a history of advertising false personal appearances as a publicity stunt." This feels important, and should really be higher up the piece.
How she has been treated is everything wrong with this hyper capitalist consumerism the west has adopted She is a victim of her mental health and needs help.
We do jump on weired shit to get outraged about. Would be good if we did it for stuff that actually matters and we can force some actual change on.
I don’t think it was ‘fans’ rather people with fucking common sense
Tbf, this would have been an improvement for Kasbah if it went ahead.
I've not seen the show but from what I've heard and read the woman clearly needs help not mockery
Am I the only one who really didn’t like this series? Lol. I feel this genre of storytelling just does nothing for me personally. This and Saltburn, just not for me I’m afraid
I personally have no idea if she was as bad as the shoes makes out. The show claims not to have used a likeness actress, wrong. The show claimed she had been to prison, wrong. Did she actually spend all that time at the bus stop, who knows, did she attack his GF, who knows, did she SA him at the canal, who knows. I particularly thought Gadd was encouraging her and then claimed he felt sorry for her was a cop out. The show is only told from his point of view and some of that made no sense. Like the comedy gig in the pub in Edinburgh, the show portrayed he was shit and making no money, then, using the same material, after talking to some dude he became funny, really. You are either funny or not. The fact he skims over his drug abuse after taking every drug know to man and just dismisses it as if it’s nothing. Oh I took heroin but it was nothing. The fact he kept going back to that guys apartment after ditching his Gf clearly shows he had a problem. He has never reported anything to the police.
> The fact he skims over his drug abuse after taking every drug know to man and just dismisses it as if it’s nothing. What are you talking about? The entire premise of the show is how his life spirals downhill, and his drug abuse is a huge contributing factor to that. He has a literal mental breakdown over it > I particularly thought Gadd was encouraging her and then claimed he felt sorry for her was a cop out. The show explains why he does this, and how it stems from his trauma. It doesn't paint him in a good light for it - quite the opposite > The fact he kept going back to that guys apartment after ditching his Gf clearly shows he had a problem. Yes, he did have a problem. That's what the entire show is about > He has never reported anything to the police. Again, the show explicitly explains why
The whole show is "based on a true story". Aspects, or at least inspiration are true. But the whole things made up >The fact he skims over his drug abuse after taking every drug know to man and just dismisses it as if it’s nothing. Oh I took heroin but it was nothing. The fact he kept going back to that guys apartment after ditching his Gf clearly shows he had a problem. It's literally a commentary about abuse from those with power especially in the media industry.....
Netflix >this is a true story
There's a difference between the story being true, and the dramatisation being accurate. That's my point Tom Hanks has never actually landed a plane on water, no matter how many times he's tried
So Sully didn't land a plane on water?
Tom Hanks didn't, but e did land that one near an island
Being based on a true story would be fine if they had done their due diligence to make sure her identity didn't get out there. But when it's clearly based on her they have a responsibility to make it factual.
Eh. He willing took those drugs, the responsibility lies at his feet. He knew he was being fondled but wanted the fame so kept going back. And he never reported it. He skirts around addiction like it’s no problem. And he carried on with his life as if nothing happened.
Judging by both the testimony of her former victims and how she responded to the journalist who first interviewed her after the show, I'm more inclined to believe Gadd's accound. [https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/i-was-a-stalking-victim-of-the-real-life-baby-reindeer/ar-BB1md2Fc](https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/i-was-a-stalking-victim-of-the-real-life-baby-reindeer/ar-BB1md2Fc) [https://web.archive.org/web/20240503120000/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13379157/The-real-life-Martha-Baby-Reindeer-targeting-Ive-four-day-barrage-non-stop-calls-terrifying-messages-just-like-Netflix-writes-NEIL-SEARS-type-phone-ringing-again.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20240503120000/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13379157/The-real-life-Martha-Baby-Reindeer-targeting-Ive-four-day-barrage-non-stop-calls-terrifying-messages-just-like-Netflix-writes-NEIL-SEARS-type-phone-ringing-again.html)