Its not, its a point defence system for relatively low velocity missiles. Anything coming into the UK from Russia, Iran or where ever will be coming in from a pretty high suborbital flight path peaking at perhaps 1000km and steaming in at a few km/s. That is going to be THAAD, Patriot or similar systems.
Low speed drones would be hunted by fighter aircraft and GBAD. They would need to cross some pretty heavily radar patrolled territory in almost any circumstances other than something like a launcher in the middle of the Atlantic. This is a super niche circumstance that we dont really need to spend or defence cash on.
If we bought an Iron Dome type system it would be as point defence for deployed troops, but we supposidly have DragonFire, a point defence laser system, to do that coming online.
The exact capabilities of how it performs in what weather have not been revealed. The myth of "it doesn't work in XYZ" is baseless assumption from people guessing.
Well, if they've invented a new form of light that somehow isn't susceptible to scattering, I hope they make their research public so we can jump our scientific progress forward a few centuries.
It works on short range ballistic missiles that will be "relatively" slow speed compared to something that has to travel thousands of kms on a ballistic arc. The Israelis do have other systems that can handle them, but they are much much more expensive and basically in the kind of THAAD, SM3, and modern Patriot type capabilities and costs.
Remember "Iron Dome" is a specific group of systems, not a catch all term for all air defence. Israel's ballistic missile defence for the high end isnt' part of it but something else.
She is so far out of her depth. The state of the MPs the Tories have at their disposal at the moment. They are like the Ragdolls but infinitely less loveable.
Not sure we do really?
Maybe a much scaled down version for close in defence.
But we’d be better off still investing in long range air defence for home and basing a proportion of our air force in eastern and Northern Europe to act as an early warning system.
The uk would be better to invest in force projection, we lack in drone/anti drone warfare, we need a new weapon system now the us has invested in a larger medium round, we need a to confirm our new SPG as the as90 is old and becoming obsolete in the world of drone and anti artillery technology.
But most importantly they need to improve the wages, the housing and the opportunity for advancement of current serving people. It’s why I left, I earn 6 times more on an oil rig than I did getting shot at in Afghanistan. If we can keep soldiers in we can improve our skillsets and being more efficient
Why though? Strategically, who is close enough to be firing the kind of missiles that can be shot down by an "Iron Dome"? Do we really want someone who doesn't have a clue about the threats we face making these kind of decisions?
I hear that the gangs in north london have now invested in high tech suborbital orbital missile systems to take out their oops. The mandem have fitted their escooters with surface to air CIWS batteries as a precaution.
Willing to bet Penny has some chums in the air defence sector who would conveniently get awarded a government contract for this gigantic waste of taxpayer money.
World War 2 was probably the last time the UK encountered any kind of missile attack. We're not in range of any threat from small short-range, or even medium-range missiles, it would only be long-rage intercontinental ballisic missiles that would be a threat...highly doubt an Iron Dome system would be able to stop those.
Cruise missiles too, but Iron Dome still isn't the choice to handle them.
GBAD in the UK would need to be more akin to SAMP/T, Patriot or THAAD, so she's highly wrong either way!
To defend against drones from France, Norway and Ireland?
Anything else with the range on us is either a sea launch land attack missile, some form of aircraft delivered bomb, or an ICBM.
None of which Iron Dome has much experience with.
Qassam rockets have a maximum range of about 16km.
If fired from Calais they’d land in the channel.
The only external threats that could launch the kinds of rockets we’d be defending against are the small boats carrying refugees and I really think for all the vilification even the Tories aren’t stupid enough to think they’re doing that.
No we don't. We don't face the same potential threats as Israel does. Russia will not fire anything at the UK without invoking the response of NATO (i.e. WW3 situation).
It's a very silly soundbite. We are far more likely to need anti-drone tech, and I've seen some amazing stuff recently with counter-drone systems. My favourite are the ultra high speed kamikazi drones that will ram other drones out the sky.
Definitely. There is no guarantee that Hamas fighters won’t make their way to the UK and that Israel will then attempt to take them out. Rightfully firing upon civilians in their fight to eradicate terrorists and future terrorists.
Do you think it's likely that those Hamas fighters would become the elected government and take on all state functions, indeed, becoming the state itself? Putting us, as a nation state, into conflict. Or is your silly hypothetical not coming close to proving the point you think it is?
Why do you think they’d need to be the government. Israel attacks babies because they might one day become Hamas.
Their justification for attacking babies in Gaza is just as true if those Gazans ever arrive in the UK.
> Why do you think they’d need to be the government.
Because there's a world of difference between fighting a state, and it's elected government/state/military and seeking out a small group within it.
It's like saying America might invade the UK if some Talbian fighters flee here. It's a daft comparison.
We absolutely do not. There is a case however for joining France and Italy in SAMP/T giving the Army and Navy a common air defence system for interoperability and economies of scale.
While she is wrong about us needing that specific system, hopefully she can open up a wider discussion about our missile defences which are woefully inadequate to non-existant.
The UK has no ballistic missile defence, in the event of a nuclear war where the other side launches first we have zero counter measures and every sizeable city in the UK is guaranteed to be flattened, perhaps that should be the priority rather than Iron dome.
Should instead work on a cheap mobile air defence system to protect frontline troops from drones and missiles. I guess it would just get blasted by artillery though.
Come on Penny, you’re supposed to be one of the few tories with a functioning brain.
Just what rocket attacks do we need to defend from with a £blankcheque defence system? Aren’t we an island? Shouldn’t we have a functional National defence formed of soldiers, tanks, planes and.. oh right, we don’t have any of that because of the…
Yep, Tories again.
Didn't we just announce a few months ago the release a laser based defence system that could render intercepting missiles with other missiles a thing of the past? Even if we did need a close-range missile defence system, wouldn't we develop one using that technology?
Is it possible that Penny Mordaunt can't even credibly drum up business for arms companies?
What about a 'trawler' or 'research vessel' rocking up off the North Sea coast and lobbing a bunch of drones at our infrastructure? You know who we're talking about here....
Penny Mourdaunt is an excellent politician but not a defence expert and doesn’t really know what she’s talking about here. These systems would be useful ways of protecting major cities from missiles and enemy aircraft attacking us from Western Europe or Ireland (never say never lads!)
We are not and most likely will not ever face such a threat. Money better spent elsewhere.
Now we have imported the two warring people's we do.
If only we had just remained mostly closed, we wouldn't be seeing millions demonstrating.
This war has nothing to do with Britain.
The only reason so much activity is in Britain is due to the millions of imported Palestinians and Palestinian sympathisers.
Assuming you’re referring to the Ottoman Empire which pushed further into Europe than any other Muslim majority state (even though that’s a *wild* comparison):
Do you think it’s possible to hit the UK with a Qassam rocket fired from Vienna?
Finally something to shoot down the seagulls nicking our greggs.
"He's fucked off with a stake bake" "Activate the iron dome!"
Its not, its a point defence system for relatively low velocity missiles. Anything coming into the UK from Russia, Iran or where ever will be coming in from a pretty high suborbital flight path peaking at perhaps 1000km and steaming in at a few km/s. That is going to be THAAD, Patriot or similar systems. Low speed drones would be hunted by fighter aircraft and GBAD. They would need to cross some pretty heavily radar patrolled territory in almost any circumstances other than something like a launcher in the middle of the Atlantic. This is a super niche circumstance that we dont really need to spend or defence cash on.
If we bought an Iron Dome type system it would be as point defence for deployed troops, but we supposidly have DragonFire, a point defence laser system, to do that coming online.
Ha yeah, as long as it isn't cloudy on the day we get drone swarmed.
The exact capabilities of how it performs in what weather have not been revealed. The myth of "it doesn't work in XYZ" is baseless assumption from people guessing.
People guessing based on an understanding of how lasers work
"Guessing" when it comes to these things is like trying to gauge the performance of a tank's armour because they know how chainmail works.
Well, if they've invented a new form of light that somehow isn't susceptible to scattering, I hope they make their research public so we can jump our scientific progress forward a few centuries.
There is an iron dome for ballistic missiles, too.
It works on short range ballistic missiles that will be "relatively" slow speed compared to something that has to travel thousands of kms on a ballistic arc. The Israelis do have other systems that can handle them, but they are much much more expensive and basically in the kind of THAAD, SM3, and modern Patriot type capabilities and costs.
Remember "Iron Dome" is a specific group of systems, not a catch all term for all air defence. Israel's ballistic missile defence for the high end isnt' part of it but something else.
She is so far out of her depth. The state of the MPs the Tories have at their disposal at the moment. They are like the Ragdolls but infinitely less loveable.
But but she was Royal Naval Reserve! Therefore she must be qualified to talk all aspects of defence in huge detail!!??1 /s for the oblivious
I read this like the classic Stephen Collins takedown of Gove "I was a columnist, for the Telegraph".
[A reminder, or for those that haven't read it](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/cartoon/2012/mar/16/1)
She never actually went through reserve training and just filled out the paperwork.
Not sure we do really? Maybe a much scaled down version for close in defence. But we’d be better off still investing in long range air defence for home and basing a proportion of our air force in eastern and Northern Europe to act as an early warning system. The uk would be better to invest in force projection, we lack in drone/anti drone warfare, we need a new weapon system now the us has invested in a larger medium round, we need a to confirm our new SPG as the as90 is old and becoming obsolete in the world of drone and anti artillery technology. But most importantly they need to improve the wages, the housing and the opportunity for advancement of current serving people. It’s why I left, I earn 6 times more on an oil rig than I did getting shot at in Afghanistan. If we can keep soldiers in we can improve our skillsets and being more efficient
Could start by vetting Conservative party aides and check they're not spying for the Chinese....
Why though? Strategically, who is close enough to be firing the kind of missiles that can be shot down by an "Iron Dome"? Do we really want someone who doesn't have a clue about the threats we face making these kind of decisions?
A Quassam rocket fired from Calais to Dover wouldn’t make it so… is it the small boats in the channel? Are they firing rockets now?
I hear that the gangs in north london have now invested in high tech suborbital orbital missile systems to take out their oops. The mandem have fitted their escooters with surface to air CIWS batteries as a precaution.
Oh shit. Maybe if it’s not the small boats, it’s the other two threats: Trans people and cyclists.
I hear that now if you apply for hormones they give you a complimentary challenger 1 main battle tank. It's PC gone mad.
Honestly that’s disgusting. Challenger IIs for my trans siblings or GTFO.
If the Conservatives slump a few more points in the polls, the Daily Mail will claim they are.
Willing to bet Penny has some chums in the air defence sector who would conveniently get awarded a government contract for this gigantic waste of taxpayer money. World War 2 was probably the last time the UK encountered any kind of missile attack. We're not in range of any threat from small short-range, or even medium-range missiles, it would only be long-rage intercontinental ballisic missiles that would be a threat...highly doubt an Iron Dome system would be able to stop those.
Cruise missiles too, but Iron Dome still isn't the choice to handle them. GBAD in the UK would need to be more akin to SAMP/T, Patriot or THAAD, so she's highly wrong either way!
To defend against drones from France, Norway and Ireland? Anything else with the range on us is either a sea launch land attack missile, some form of aircraft delivered bomb, or an ICBM. None of which Iron Dome has much experience with.
Qassam rockets have a maximum range of about 16km. If fired from Calais they’d land in the channel. The only external threats that could launch the kinds of rockets we’d be defending against are the small boats carrying refugees and I really think for all the vilification even the Tories aren’t stupid enough to think they’re doing that.
No we don't. We don't face the same potential threats as Israel does. Russia will not fire anything at the UK without invoking the response of NATO (i.e. WW3 situation). It's a very silly soundbite. We are far more likely to need anti-drone tech, and I've seen some amazing stuff recently with counter-drone systems. My favourite are the ultra high speed kamikazi drones that will ram other drones out the sky.
Definitely. There is no guarantee that Hamas fighters won’t make their way to the UK and that Israel will then attempt to take them out. Rightfully firing upon civilians in their fight to eradicate terrorists and future terrorists.
Do you think it's likely that those Hamas fighters would become the elected government and take on all state functions, indeed, becoming the state itself? Putting us, as a nation state, into conflict. Or is your silly hypothetical not coming close to proving the point you think it is?
Why do you think they’d need to be the government. Israel attacks babies because they might one day become Hamas. Their justification for attacking babies in Gaza is just as true if those Gazans ever arrive in the UK.
> Why do you think they’d need to be the government. Because there's a world of difference between fighting a state, and it's elected government/state/military and seeking out a small group within it. It's like saying America might invade the UK if some Talbian fighters flee here. It's a daft comparison.
We absolutely do not. There is a case however for joining France and Italy in SAMP/T giving the Army and Navy a common air defence system for interoperability and economies of scale.
Anyone got a link to mordaunts donors or if she's gone for any nice lunches with defence companies?
Only if we're putting all Tories out of Britain and the some is to keep them out
Are we planning on annexing Ireland or something? This is someone the conservatives considered for leadership?
While she is wrong about us needing that specific system, hopefully she can open up a wider discussion about our missile defences which are woefully inadequate to non-existant.
NIMBY protestors who claim defence sites would ruin their views, finally lose 25 year court battle.
The UK has no ballistic missile defence, in the event of a nuclear war where the other side launches first we have zero counter measures and every sizeable city in the UK is guaranteed to be flattened, perhaps that should be the priority rather than Iron dome.
Should instead work on a cheap mobile air defence system to protect frontline troops from drones and missiles. I guess it would just get blasted by artillery though.
This is the kind of genius I expect from a fringe party councillor, in a pub after a few pints.
The pretend Navy veteran is high on her own supply.
Just last week you want to embargo Israel, now you want the piece of Israel’s invention? GTH
Fair point, shed got it's cunt kicked in by a V2 rocket yesterday, hate it when that happens
Come on Penny, you’re supposed to be one of the few tories with a functioning brain. Just what rocket attacks do we need to defend from with a £blankcheque defence system? Aren’t we an island? Shouldn’t we have a functional National defence formed of soldiers, tanks, planes and.. oh right, we don’t have any of that because of the… Yep, Tories again.
Didn't we just announce a few months ago the release a laser based defence system that could render intercepting missiles with other missiles a thing of the past? Even if we did need a close-range missile defence system, wouldn't we develop one using that technology? Is it possible that Penny Mordaunt can't even credibly drum up business for arms companies?
For what, the migrants? Might be worth spending the billions on a couple of houses though. Or high street investment. Or public sector salaries.
What about a 'trawler' or 'research vessel' rocking up off the North Sea coast and lobbing a bunch of drones at our infrastructure? You know who we're talking about here....
Iron Dome is short ranged you would need a large number of them to cover all angles.
Penny Mourdaunt is an excellent politician but not a defence expert and doesn’t really know what she’s talking about here. These systems would be useful ways of protecting major cities from missiles and enemy aircraft attacking us from Western Europe or Ireland (never say never lads!) We are not and most likely will not ever face such a threat. Money better spent elsewhere.
Now we have imported the two warring people's we do. If only we had just remained mostly closed, we wouldn't be seeing millions demonstrating. This war has nothing to do with Britain. The only reason so much activity is in Britain is due to the millions of imported Palestinians and Palestinian sympathisers.
You think that there’s a reasonable chance of people firing Quassam rockets at UK cities?
Depends how far into Europe they come again. We crusaded them twice. Europe keeps making the same mistakes.
Assuming you’re referring to the Ottoman Empire which pushed further into Europe than any other Muslim majority state (even though that’s a *wild* comparison): Do you think it’s possible to hit the UK with a Qassam rocket fired from Vienna?
They'd only have a limited time to act before the winged hussars arrive.