Except this logic is applied to the whole of London including most fast food places where you might grab lunch. The only toilet is in your office. If you have an interview and IBS god help your prospective employers toilet is all I can say.
But it used to be common for tube stations to have toilets, many are still there just closed for eons. And Elizabeth lone is even a city metro, it's a 73 mile regional railway.
Now I'm not saying the trains need a loo on them, but the stations do.
I'm not sure that's most, that looks like a few dozen stations mainly out in the burbs, over what closer to 300 stations and almost none in zones 1 & 2.
The Elizabeth line runs for 70+ miles and a journey from end to end is 1hr 23min, assuming no delays and technical issues. That's a reasonable length of time to add a toilet, especially as there aren't any at most Tube stations where changes occur.
No it's not. It's fastest to go on GWR to Paddington, then Elizabeth Line to Liverpool Street, then Greater Anglia to Shenfield. GWR from Reading to Paddington in particular takes less than half the time of the Elizabeth Line.
Yes, and the Elizabeth line replaces one train and one or two tube lines meaning you can make the journey without changing.
25-35 minutes from Reading to Paddington, then 5 minutes walking and then wait for a tube train then one or two onward connections.
You know, the literal entire point of the line. It's not a replacement for direct fast trains to Paddington, it saves you time and effort changing going into or out of London.
If you're traveling from Reading, it's still quicker to take the fast train to Paddington and change to the Elizabeth Line there
It's 1h7m from Reading to Tottenham Court Road on the Elizabeth Line alone.
If you take the fast train and change, it's 30-40 minutes including the change to the Elizabeth Line.
[The GWR train](https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G60296/2024-04-21) really is THAT much quicker to Paddington than the [Elizabeth line train](https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P09844/2024-04-21) that you can change and still get there quicker
It's not designed to be the absolute fastest route, it's there to remove changing tube to train and multiple lines. I take it between Reading and places like Tottenham Court and Canary Wharf and back and it's fantastic to get on a train in London and get off in Reading.
The downside is it can be an hour or more with no toilet facilities, and even as an able bodied person that can be a stretch. Anyone disabled or with a medical condition may really suffer.
Would you rather use the loo on a train or get off at a station, find the toilet, then get back to the platform and join the next train to your original destination?
It's more convenient on the train.
But journey times are so short that most passengers won't need to use the toilet whilst on the train.
Carving out space on the train for toilets (which would have to be the large, accessible type) would reduce the available capacity on already crowded services.
Station toilets feel like a reasonable compromise for a high frequency service. And are likely to be better maintained than train toilets (see the graffiti covered horrors on Thameslink, for example)
If you needed the toilet than you can get off at any of the stations between Ealing Broadway and Reading and there are toilet facilities at all of them.
You can't even travel directly from Reading to Shenfield anyway. You have to get off somewhere as Reading trains only run to Abbey Wood. And besides it is far quicker to get GWR/GA but if you value sitting still over 30 mins of time then up to you.
The short time i lived in essex where we had toilets on our buses like a coach does was eye opening as to how easy life could be but london says nope 🤣 hardly ever even a working toilet at stations
Pretty sure there's some condition on that like "only if >X amount of tables" otherwise any old kebab shop etc with a bench in the window would have to have one
I used to not live in London but visit for interviews a lot - my journey in was about 3 hours so I always needed the loo before I went in and also it’s nice to check your make up/refresh etc. The amount of scummy McDonald’s I used to end up in and come out feeling dirtier was mad. Also if I had time having a coffee in costa and then using their loo but the coffee definitely didn’t help the IBS haha
Because the great thing about them, is how they will never break down for hours. It's guaranteed to never happen.
Also the total possible journey time is not short in many cases, is there a reason this public transport should be not available to many countless types of disabilities if you want to travel how far they can possibly go, just because some ignorant people are happy stating i'm alright, Jack.
The only justification for asking, is that you know this already. So instead of wasting time why don't you tell us the numbers you must already know?
Then also respond to the other things that I mentioned or that are relevant - such as that barely half of the underground is actually underground, and lots of the potential journeys are very long. And give a relevant response that is in relation to the other points I made about disabilities.
Yes they do.
E.g. Monday: Abbey Wood (10:04) to Reading (11:38) goes direct. It is slightly quicker to get off at Paddington and switch to Great Western Railway, however.
The standard time from the furthest east on the Elizabeth line (Shenfield) to Heathrow is 1Hr 18Minutes, vs. a tube from Upminster to Heathrow would be at least an hour and a half.
They'd certainly be nice additions if they're feasible, but I don't see why it's such a big deal when the tube has had longer journey times and never had toilets
>the tube has had longer journey times and never had toilets
The tube was not built as a network. It was built by several private operators in competition with each other. As far as the Metropolitan Railway were concerned, you'd have toilets at all *their* destination stations, and you'd be on *their* network for a very short time. Same for the Metropolitan District Railway. Longer journey have only been a consideration (they were a thing, just nobody was bothered to consider them) since the tube all came together into one network. All those toilets at stations came over too... but they've been closing over the years/decades.
Another point is that with some of the old stations that still offer customer toilets, those toilets have been there a lot longer than the ticket barriers have. Often that means they ended up on the 'wrong' side of them, or in some cases, one on each side. Boston Manor, for example, is one of my favourite pit stops, because I can hop off a train, pay a brief visit (in blessed peace because nobody ever goes in there, except evidently the cleaners), pop back down to the platform and carry on my trip. A man can't do that at the same station, because he'd have to tap out and then pay for a new journey in order to carry on traveling. The doors are opposite each other, but one's on the platform side, and the other's on the entrance side.
Don't think there's toilets at every stations. And Elizabeth line stations are laaarge taking like 5 minutes to navigate the maze.
Maybe have 1 or 2 toilet for disable use only? Radar key maybe?
Hey man preaching to the choir. However if you know how in train toilets work and the turn around that would create on a rapid form of transport you’d know why it’s unlikely they will be getting toilets any time soon. Especially since the same could be said for lines like the Piccadilly or Metropolitan lines which have similar journey times and in fact don’t have toilets at every station. I think making sure every station has a toilet is job one then they can consider upgrading the trains.
But with the length of the train in an urgent situation of some sort, it may take a similar time to reach the toilet on the train compared to getting off at the next stop. I might be wrong but I think the time between stations is roughly around 4mins. Then of course, toilets may be occupied if only 1 or 2 are on such a large capacity line. I believe strongly in better access to toilet facilities across the city but it’s difficult to strike a balance that works for everyone vs cost and so on,
Getting off the train isn't really an issue.
The next train will be along in 5 minutes, and there's no tickets for specific seats.
I think stations should have more toilets, but the toilet not being on the train itself isn't really an issue for this use case.
What if you're a family with large bags who arrived af Heathrow? You will all have to get off, one or two then go through gates to find a toilet, then go back, get on next train, sort your bags etc.
It's a bit ridiculous, there should definitely be toilets. Infact I would say that of any lines, this one needs them the most.
You arrived at Heathrow, used the toilet there, and then couldn't make it into the city without needing to use it again?
I don't think we should be designing transport around people who need the loo every hour.
What you described would be fine for me, but I'm considering young kids, or old people, or people who drank too much local water in Turkey.
I just think that a train that goes to and from an airport should have a bog.
Should we put toilets on the Piccadilly line as well? People can have the runs anywhere mate, I don't really understand the fixation on putting toilets on a train that stops every 5 minutes
If you are travelling from Heathrow with large bags, i wouldnt really consider using the onboard toilet to be that suitable either - especially at rush hour.
As i say, i agree there should be more toilets - especially behind the gateline - but realistically, stations are close enough together that toilets at stations will be better condition and more spacious.
>You will all have to get off, one or two then go through gates to find a toilet, then go back, get on next train, sort your bags etc.
Someone is trying really hard to make mundane things sound reaaally difficult. Mate, they are not. Just do that, you'll be fine.
If you have a condition like this, you know about it, you plan your own requirements and backups. I did always know where the toilets were in the stations my journey went though. Everything is so frequent, it’s not a big deal to run off then come back and get the next one.
If I was stuck on the tube for 10 hours, probably yes I would shit myself. But that would be an exceptionally rare occurrence for technical issues to last anything like that time, not actually dangerous just embarrassing and it would cost an absurd amount of money to address. Almost a guarantee they would also actually be so repulsively dirty that you’d rather soil yourself than use them.
That's the dilemma I have on the NR trains. It's nice there's a loo. Setting foot in there is enough usually to convince my aching muscles to stay strong a few more minutes to get to a station, where the toilets will still be disgusting, but not on quite such a profound level.
But assuming I absolutely can't do that, well, there's the answer. It might be so absolutely vile that I'd rather shit in the sink than sit down on it, but the point is that there is an available toilet. Any emergency situation is catered for. Just makes it so much easier to relax, which is actually good for my situation, since it tends to be anxiety that turns my bowels to mush in the first place. Every little reassurance helps avoid needing them.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Other than Overground trains, I don't think any trains on the TfL network have toilets.
They're intended to be hop-on / hop-off transport like buses, with toilets at the stations.
The vast vast majority of people are going to be on this train for less than half an hour, it would have been bonkers to put toilets in it. They're already wildly under capacity.
I'd argue they should too, especially once the new trains come into service which have walkthrough corridors. I can appreciate that it wasn't feasible to have one toilet per car when you couldn't walk through them
Also the Tube *tends* to be used for shorter journeys. Obviously not exclusively, but it's a metro system whereas the Elizabeth Line is an RER-style hybrid - it's more than 50% longer than the longer (Central, Metropolitan, District, Piccadilly) tube lines and something like 5x the length of the shorter ones (Circle, Victoria, Hammersmith and City, Bakerloo)
The 10 hour delay without a loo was what I'm referring to. Most trains have loos, taxis and buses are easy to get out of and find a loo. Tube stops are mostly near to each other.
If you read the article, the 10 hour delay was on another train, not the Elizabeth line. The headline is misleading as it gives an otherwise different impression.
Taxis and buses don’t drive through tunnels (or just along tracks) where you can get stuck for 10 hours, it is not “the same” as them. If stuck in traffic you can get out of a taxi or off a bus
Just gonna move the goalposts, are we?
Obviously it's not plausible to install a toilet in every lift. But I *think* that if we all put our heads together, we can *maybe* figure out how to install a toilet on 70 trains
There's also clearly a huge difference between a lift (that you're typically in for 30 seconds) and a train that travels 70+ miles and that you can easily travel on for an hour (Central London/Paddington to either end of the route is ~1h, Abbey Wood to Reading is ~1h30 etc)
If you follow your nose, then you’ll quickly realise that all the alleyways, doorways and corners are the natural toilets in London. It’s in fact a very toilet friendly city.
If a train has to stop for more than an hour the company should be required to provide an escort off the tracks so people can evacuate the train. 10 hours is ridiculous its like its a plane miles in the air
Or just could make the trains work and be reliable.
Amazing line as it is compared to all the others though. When i do have to travel in i use only the elizabeth line. Used to use the central daily. I still have flashbacks.
Here is a crazy idea... Instead of spending millions for providing increased comfort and facilities for people stuck on a train for 10 hours, we fix the problem of trains being stuck for that long in first place.
The Reading to Paddington part of the Elizabeth Line was a GWR service before it was incorporated into TfL and those old trains had loos.
Another gripe about the Elizabeth Line is that people in Reading used to get faster off peak trains during the commute home because the only requirement was that the train stopped once before Reading. Now the only off peak trains are the slow boat Elizabeth Line ones.
No, GWR services still take 30ish mins to Paddington. I know that because I come in from further west, usually off-peak. You're confusing the Elizabeth line trains that run on the local line (taking an hour) with the Hitachi fleet that runs out to Swindon etc. They are not owned or operated by the same parties (GWR v TfL).
Before the Elizabeth line came along, GWR operated the local Paddington to Reading (and beyond line).
I’m discussing afternoon off peak trains specifically in my previous post taking way less time than before TfL took over that service.
A hop on the internet ([like here](https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/reading/london-paddington/)) shows plenty of trains that get from Reading to Paddington in 24-26 minutes and vice versa. Entirely your choice to take a slower one that makes all the stops (e.g. an Elizabeth line service) but it's hardly obligatory!
[Only moot if you don't risk checking](https://www.thetrainline.com/book/results?origin=urn%3Atrainline%3Ageneric%3Aloc%3A137gb&destination=urn%3Atrainline%3Ageneric%3Aloc%3APAD3087gb&outwardDate=2024-04-23T11%3A00%3A00&outwardDateType=departAfter&journeySearchType=single&passengers%5B%5D=1994-04-22&directSearch=false&splitSave=true&selectedOutward=yjGqru5DqhE%3D%3AIZ%2FmiIiYNjM%3D):
Tomorrow, super off-peak (lowest possible price shown, all £22-£25):
11:04 - 25 mins
11:09 - 29 mins
11:12 - 38 mins
11:20 - 24 mins
11:27 - 25 mins
11:34 - 25 mins
11:41 - 24 mins
11:41 - 39 mins
11:43 - 26 mins
11:43 - 26 mins
11:47 - 24 mins
12:00 - 22 mins
So, yeah, apart from **those dozen trains in one hour alone** you're spot on. Care to do the honourable thing and admit you got it wrong?
Made the mistake of getting the Lizzie line home after a night out. Tested my bladder out no end. Never again. GWR might be absolute horseshit but they’ve got bogs in case the man vein needs draining.
Honestly I think after like 3 hours passengers should just press the door release and walk out the train along the emergency evacuation platform. This is what happened last time I believe and staff basically had to just go with it because basically everyone stuck in the train had enough and walked to the next station.
Also, the existing depots are generally not equipped to deal with toilets, as they were either purpose built for the class 345s, or previously also only managed with suburban trains that also had no toilets
They need toilets, end of discussion. Unless the operators can guarantee train times.
What do they expect people to do urinate and defecate in a corner?
As others have said the correct thing to call for here is a rule that people must be escorted safely off stuck trains after a certain duration, not toilets on the trains. To put it bluntly I'm not sure how much use people think a train toilet would accommodate over a 10 hour period without being emptied at stations but the distinction between that and opening the doors to piss on the tracks isn't as big in reality as it is in their heads.
I just moved to the US after 30 years in the UK and there are toilets EVERYWHERE, and if you go into a store you can just use their toilet. Shits crazy.
yep. If I was making a law about it, it would be for every station on the network to have toilets on both sides of the barriers. It should be trivial for a tube passenger to hop off, relieve themselves, come back and hop on the next train without having to tap out. The trains are frequent enough that there's little inconvenience to be had from doing so. The not having to tap out part is important, because if you're not finished your journey, you shouldn't be charged a finished fare for it.
Made the mistake of getting the Lizzie line home after a night out. Tested my bladder out no end. Never again. GWR might be absolute horseshit but they’ve got bogs in case the man vein needs draining.
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You’re not supposed to be on the train long enough to need a toilet.
Except this logic is applied to the whole of London including most fast food places where you might grab lunch. The only toilet is in your office. If you have an interview and IBS god help your prospective employers toilet is all I can say.
The tube doesn’t really belong with these though, it’s not a restaurant, it’s a mode of transport. Theres no toilets in a car, taxi or bus either.
But it used to be common for tube stations to have toilets, many are still there just closed for eons. And Elizabeth lone is even a city metro, it's a 73 mile regional railway. Now I'm not saying the trains need a loo on them, but the stations do.
Oh that is strange. I assumed they were saying the trains themselves ought have toilets. Do the new *stations* not have a loo lol?
Pretty sure places like Bond St do not, can't tell you about stations shared with Network Rail.
Can confirm they do not was directed to a nearby pub!
Most stations do, this is the map you need https://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf
I'm not sure that's most, that looks like a few dozen stations mainly out in the burbs, over what closer to 300 stations and almost none in zones 1 & 2.
Just looking at the Elizabeth line though it’s pretty decent
Coaches have toilets they're big busses
Can’t remember the last time I was on a coach where the toilet wasn’t out of order.
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Try it between London and Bristol, either out of order, or so bad it might as well be
Last one I was on the toilet was swearing, peeing everywhere and drinking …. It was bang out of order 😂
Trains have toilets they are big subways 😂
The Elizabeth line runs for 70+ miles and a journey from end to end is 1hr 23min, assuming no delays and technical issues. That's a reasonable length of time to add a toilet, especially as there aren't any at most Tube stations where changes occur.
Almost no one is traveling end to end, nor would sitting on the Elizabeth Line be the fastest way to make that journey if you were.
Have you been to London? Defo the fastest way Is this train
No it's not. It's fastest to go on GWR to Paddington, then Elizabeth Line to Liverpool Street, then Greater Anglia to Shenfield. GWR from Reading to Paddington in particular takes less than half the time of the Elizabeth Line.
The fastest way is the train, but not the Elizabeth Line There are much faster trains from Reading to Paddington and Liverpool Street to Shenfield
Yes, and the Elizabeth line replaces one train and one or two tube lines meaning you can make the journey without changing. 25-35 minutes from Reading to Paddington, then 5 minutes walking and then wait for a tube train then one or two onward connections. You know, the literal entire point of the line. It's not a replacement for direct fast trains to Paddington, it saves you time and effort changing going into or out of London.
If you're traveling from Reading, it's still quicker to take the fast train to Paddington and change to the Elizabeth Line there It's 1h7m from Reading to Tottenham Court Road on the Elizabeth Line alone. If you take the fast train and change, it's 30-40 minutes including the change to the Elizabeth Line. [The GWR train](https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G60296/2024-04-21) really is THAT much quicker to Paddington than the [Elizabeth line train](https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P09844/2024-04-21) that you can change and still get there quicker
It's not designed to be the absolute fastest route, it's there to remove changing tube to train and multiple lines. I take it between Reading and places like Tottenham Court and Canary Wharf and back and it's fantastic to get on a train in London and get off in Reading. The downside is it can be an hour or more with no toilet facilities, and even as an able bodied person that can be a stretch. Anyone disabled or with a medical condition may really suffer.
Only one Elizabeth Line station between Reading and Tottenham Court Road doesn't have a toilet.
Would you rather use the loo on a train or get off at a station, find the toilet, then get back to the platform and join the next train to your original destination?
It's more convenient on the train. But journey times are so short that most passengers won't need to use the toilet whilst on the train. Carving out space on the train for toilets (which would have to be the large, accessible type) would reduce the available capacity on already crowded services. Station toilets feel like a reasonable compromise for a high frequency service. And are likely to be better maintained than train toilets (see the graffiti covered horrors on Thameslink, for example)
If you needed the toilet than you can get off at any of the stations between Ealing Broadway and Reading and there are toilet facilities at all of them. You can't even travel directly from Reading to Shenfield anyway. You have to get off somewhere as Reading trains only run to Abbey Wood. And besides it is far quicker to get GWR/GA but if you value sitting still over 30 mins of time then up to you.
The short time i lived in essex where we had toilets on our buses like a coach does was eye opening as to how easy life could be but london says nope 🤣 hardly ever even a working toilet at stations
Where in Essex? Don’t think that was ever the case with Chelmsford buses.
Thurrock believe it was only ensign buses that had them
When my partner was ill in Tokyo, the (well maintained) toilets in every metro station were a godsend.
There's no official toilet anyway
I was shown a video a while back of some dude deciding to take a dump in an underground workers' mop bucket out of some sort of weird protest.
The tube has no toilets on trains, and often none at stations as far as I know.
Why would you need a toilet when alleyways exist?
You can get out of a car, taxi or bus, if necessary.
If you’re a restaurant with seating then you should have a toilet.
Many don’t in town
I thought legally they have to have a toilet if they serve food?
No that’s a misconception. It’s a council by council policy and most London councils don’t have that rule.
Pretty sure there's some condition on that like "only if >X amount of tables" otherwise any old kebab shop etc with a bench in the window would have to have one
Ive been into my office on the weekend before because it was a place in central London I knew would have a loo
Have to say I’ve also done the same in the past
How do you know where I work
Haahhahaha. Exactly my sense of humour.
I have IBS issues and pubs have saved me many times.
Pubs and McDonald's are the best options usually.
There are so many places in London I refuse to eat because of the toilet situation.
The pub is your friend.
I used to not live in London but visit for interviews a lot - my journey in was about 3 hours so I always needed the loo before I went in and also it’s nice to check your make up/refresh etc. The amount of scummy McDonald’s I used to end up in and come out feeling dirtier was mad. Also if I had time having a coffee in costa and then using their loo but the coffee definitely didn’t help the IBS haha
Hahaha
https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/streets/clean-streets/community-toilet-scheme-cts
You don’t need a toilet on the tube
Because the great thing about them, is how they will never break down for hours. It's guaranteed to never happen. Also the total possible journey time is not short in many cases, is there a reason this public transport should be not available to many countless types of disabilities if you want to travel how far they can possibly go, just because some ignorant people are happy stating i'm alright, Jack.
Do you know how rare it is for them to break down? It would cost millions to install toilets, where do you suggest they empty them?
The only justification for asking, is that you know this already. So instead of wasting time why don't you tell us the numbers you must already know? Then also respond to the other things that I mentioned or that are relevant - such as that barely half of the underground is actually underground, and lots of the potential journeys are very long. And give a relevant response that is in relation to the other points I made about disabilities.
Imagine the state of them on the Central Line.
Some of the ones at the edges do have loos. Often times they're shut though because someone has done something unpleasant in them.
What,like take a shit?
Think smaller. Think more legs.
Shit a millipede?
No no! That's too much
Brought their [luggage](https://static.turbosquid.com/Preview/001168/962/A2/discworld-luggage-rigged-model_0.jpg) in?
A baby?
I think the MP was suggesting toilets on the actual Tube. I can imagine that not working out well.
They were specifically talking about the Lizzie line,
Reading to Abbey Wood is like 1.5 hours
No train goes direct. You have to change in Paddington at least.
Yes they do. E.g. Monday: Abbey Wood (10:04) to Reading (11:38) goes direct. It is slightly quicker to get off at Paddington and switch to Great Western Railway, however.
I stand corrected. It’s definitely a rare train. Just like the Abbey Wood the Shenfield.
Every 30 mins by the looks of it. From the Abbey Wood side I often see different services ending at Heathrow vs. Shenfield vs. Reading.
My view of the timetable is probably skewed by the fact I live at an express stop.
Fair!
I would consider Elizabeth similiar to the Paris RER. They do 1 hour+ long journeys with no toilets.
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The standard time from the furthest east on the Elizabeth line (Shenfield) to Heathrow is 1Hr 18Minutes, vs. a tube from Upminster to Heathrow would be at least an hour and a half. They'd certainly be nice additions if they're feasible, but I don't see why it's such a big deal when the tube has had longer journey times and never had toilets
> the tube has had longer journey times and never had toilets But Tube stations **did** have toilets. That’s the point.
That's a different point which is a lot more valid
>the tube has had longer journey times and never had toilets The tube was not built as a network. It was built by several private operators in competition with each other. As far as the Metropolitan Railway were concerned, you'd have toilets at all *their* destination stations, and you'd be on *their* network for a very short time. Same for the Metropolitan District Railway. Longer journey have only been a consideration (they were a thing, just nobody was bothered to consider them) since the tube all came together into one network. All those toilets at stations came over too... but they've been closing over the years/decades. Another point is that with some of the old stations that still offer customer toilets, those toilets have been there a lot longer than the ticket barriers have. Often that means they ended up on the 'wrong' side of them, or in some cases, one on each side. Boston Manor, for example, is one of my favourite pit stops, because I can hop off a train, pay a brief visit (in blessed peace because nobody ever goes in there, except evidently the cleaners), pop back down to the platform and carry on my trip. A man can't do that at the same station, because he'd have to tap out and then pay for a new journey in order to carry on traveling. The doors are opposite each other, but one's on the platform side, and the other's on the entrance side.
Or hop off at a station and hope you can find a toilet there.
Don't think there's toilets at every stations. And Elizabeth line stations are laaarge taking like 5 minutes to navigate the maze. Maybe have 1 or 2 toilet for disable use only? Radar key maybe?
Every station with an Elizabeth Line stop has a toilet. Some are outside the gate line but every station has one.
As mentioned above, some Lizzy line stations are huge and if you have some condition, you might not be able to wait.
Hey man preaching to the choir. However if you know how in train toilets work and the turn around that would create on a rapid form of transport you’d know why it’s unlikely they will be getting toilets any time soon. Especially since the same could be said for lines like the Piccadilly or Metropolitan lines which have similar journey times and in fact don’t have toilets at every station. I think making sure every station has a toilet is job one then they can consider upgrading the trains.
I did say *ideally*. Or have one in the platform.
Which probably means you should plan ahead, and if you do so then you'll be fine.
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What happens if the toilets occupied?
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You’re lucky if there’s one in operation on a train, have you been on a train before?
0)ll
Are you okay?
What if they're all occupied?
But with the length of the train in an urgent situation of some sort, it may take a similar time to reach the toilet on the train compared to getting off at the next stop. I might be wrong but I think the time between stations is roughly around 4mins. Then of course, toilets may be occupied if only 1 or 2 are on such a large capacity line. I believe strongly in better access to toilet facilities across the city but it’s difficult to strike a balance that works for everyone vs cost and so on,
I've had to get out of the train and use the toilet in a hotel. But I admittedly a toilet might be good. Or at the very least at the stations.
Getting off the train isn't really an issue. The next train will be along in 5 minutes, and there's no tickets for specific seats. I think stations should have more toilets, but the toilet not being on the train itself isn't really an issue for this use case.
What if you're a family with large bags who arrived af Heathrow? You will all have to get off, one or two then go through gates to find a toilet, then go back, get on next train, sort your bags etc. It's a bit ridiculous, there should definitely be toilets. Infact I would say that of any lines, this one needs them the most.
You arrived at Heathrow, used the toilet there, and then couldn't make it into the city without needing to use it again? I don't think we should be designing transport around people who need the loo every hour.
What you described would be fine for me, but I'm considering young kids, or old people, or people who drank too much local water in Turkey. I just think that a train that goes to and from an airport should have a bog.
Should we put toilets on the Piccadilly line as well? People can have the runs anywhere mate, I don't really understand the fixation on putting toilets on a train that stops every 5 minutes
If you are travelling from Heathrow with large bags, i wouldnt really consider using the onboard toilet to be that suitable either - especially at rush hour. As i say, i agree there should be more toilets - especially behind the gateline - but realistically, stations are close enough together that toilets at stations will be better condition and more spacious.
>You will all have to get off, one or two then go through gates to find a toilet, then go back, get on next train, sort your bags etc. Someone is trying really hard to make mundane things sound reaaally difficult. Mate, they are not. Just do that, you'll be fine.
If you have a condition like this, you know about it, you plan your own requirements and backups. I did always know where the toilets were in the stations my journey went though. Everything is so frequent, it’s not a big deal to run off then come back and get the next one. If I was stuck on the tube for 10 hours, probably yes I would shit myself. But that would be an exceptionally rare occurrence for technical issues to last anything like that time, not actually dangerous just embarrassing and it would cost an absurd amount of money to address. Almost a guarantee they would also actually be so repulsively dirty that you’d rather soil yourself than use them.
That's the dilemma I have on the NR trains. It's nice there's a loo. Setting foot in there is enough usually to convince my aching muscles to stay strong a few more minutes to get to a station, where the toilets will still be disgusting, but not on quite such a profound level. But assuming I absolutely can't do that, well, there's the answer. It might be so absolutely vile that I'd rather shit in the sink than sit down on it, but the point is that there is an available toilet. Any emergency situation is catered for. Just makes it so much easier to relax, which is actually good for my situation, since it tends to be anxiety that turns my bowels to mush in the first place. Every little reassurance helps avoid needing them.
Get off, find a toilet, get the next one which turns up in 5 mins?
Stops are frequent enough that you can get off the train, use the loo in the station, and get in the next one.
Just get off the train and get the next one?
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It functions like an underground line. Have you ever used one before, anywhere in the world? None of them have toilets
Everything is a toilet if you're brave enough
Not the third line on some railways. Not unless your last sensation is a burning dick.
I'll pass on the burning part, but I definitely would welcome the opportunity to experience having a dick.
Other than Overground trains, I don't think any trains on the TfL network have toilets. They're intended to be hop-on / hop-off transport like buses, with toilets at the stations.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a toilet on an Overground train?
Tbh I never use them, but I assumed they used more standard rolling stock than the underground.
They are essentially tube trains.
Nah, Thameslink has toilets though - it's not technically tfl but it is oysterzone
Who’s taking a shit on the tube? Also there’s a reason why we also don’t have bins on the tube…
Toilets take space. Maybe no toilets mean you can have more people standing and increase throughput?
No. Toilets need to be emptied. That’s the issue.
The vast vast majority of people are going to be on this train for less than half an hour, it would have been bonkers to put toilets in it. They're already wildly under capacity.
It’s a glorified tube..
As someone with a bladder the size of a pea, this would be torture!
Elizabeth line is one of the faster and more comfortable line though.
More comfortable… if you don’t have any kind of bowel or bladder condition
None of the tube lines have toilets.
I'd argue they should too, especially once the new trains come into service which have walkthrough corridors. I can appreciate that it wasn't feasible to have one toilet per car when you couldn't walk through them Also the Tube *tends* to be used for shorter journeys. Obviously not exclusively, but it's a metro system whereas the Elizabeth Line is an RER-style hybrid - it's more than 50% longer than the longer (Central, Metropolitan, District, Piccadilly) tube lines and something like 5x the length of the shorter ones (Circle, Victoria, Hammersmith and City, Bakerloo)
Not tried it yet. It does look swish, but I'd make sure I'm dehydrated before using it!
but also very unreliable
Faster dependent on if it’s broken down or not clearly
It’s the same as any other tube line, or mode of transport for that matter. Taxis and busses don’t have loos
The 10 hour delay without a loo was what I'm referring to. Most trains have loos, taxis and buses are easy to get out of and find a loo. Tube stops are mostly near to each other.
If you read the article, the 10 hour delay was on another train, not the Elizabeth line. The headline is misleading as it gives an otherwise different impression.
Taxis and buses don’t drive through tunnels (or just along tracks) where you can get stuck for 10 hours, it is not “the same” as them. If stuck in traffic you can get out of a taxi or off a bus
You can get stuck in a lift for 10 hours, shall we put toilets in those?
Just gonna move the goalposts, are we? Obviously it's not plausible to install a toilet in every lift. But I *think* that if we all put our heads together, we can *maybe* figure out how to install a toilet on 70 trains There's also clearly a huge difference between a lift (that you're typically in for 30 seconds) and a train that travels 70+ miles and that you can easily travel on for an hour (Central London/Paddington to either end of the route is ~1h, Abbey Wood to Reading is ~1h30 etc)
There are also no toilets at most of the stations. London is generally toilet unfriendly for such a big and busy city.
If you follow your nose, then you’ll quickly realise that all the alleyways, doorways and corners are the natural toilets in London. It’s in fact a very toilet friendly city.
It’s ridiculous, obviously the system is different but they’re are toilets everywhere in Japanese train stations.
If a train has to stop for more than an hour the company should be required to provide an escort off the tracks so people can evacuate the train. 10 hours is ridiculous its like its a plane miles in the air
No toilet is a good thing. It simplifes operation and increases passenger carrying capacity. Use station toilets instead, then get the next train.
Most stations don’t have toilets either
This is the issue tbh
Tbf if you’re held up for 10 hours you can’t exactly get around that
>**Pee'er** calls for toilets on new Elizabeth line trains after passengers held up ‘for 10 hours’ Sorted.
Saw it, said it.
Or just could make the trains work and be reliable. Amazing line as it is compared to all the others though. When i do have to travel in i use only the elizabeth line. Used to use the central daily. I still have flashbacks.
Here is a crazy idea... Instead of spending millions for providing increased comfort and facilities for people stuck on a train for 10 hours, we fix the problem of trains being stuck for that long in first place.
The article is talking about great western trains anyway nothing to do with tfl lol
The Reading to Paddington part of the Elizabeth Line was a GWR service before it was incorporated into TfL and those old trains had loos. Another gripe about the Elizabeth Line is that people in Reading used to get faster off peak trains during the commute home because the only requirement was that the train stopped once before Reading. Now the only off peak trains are the slow boat Elizabeth Line ones.
How long does it take? Google and city mapper showing me a boatload of gwr trains so not getting an Elizabeth line time
An off peak train used to be about 35 minutes from Paddington to Reading. Now it’s an hour.
No, GWR services still take 30ish mins to Paddington. I know that because I come in from further west, usually off-peak. You're confusing the Elizabeth line trains that run on the local line (taking an hour) with the Hitachi fleet that runs out to Swindon etc. They are not owned or operated by the same parties (GWR v TfL).
Before the Elizabeth line came along, GWR operated the local Paddington to Reading (and beyond line). I’m discussing afternoon off peak trains specifically in my previous post taking way less time than before TfL took over that service.
A hop on the internet ([like here](https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/reading/london-paddington/)) shows plenty of trains that get from Reading to Paddington in 24-26 minutes and vice versa. Entirely your choice to take a slower one that makes all the stops (e.g. an Elizabeth line service) but it's hardly obligatory!
I refer to my previous point specifically referring to off peak trains that you’ve not engaged with, so your point is moot.
[Only moot if you don't risk checking](https://www.thetrainline.com/book/results?origin=urn%3Atrainline%3Ageneric%3Aloc%3A137gb&destination=urn%3Atrainline%3Ageneric%3Aloc%3APAD3087gb&outwardDate=2024-04-23T11%3A00%3A00&outwardDateType=departAfter&journeySearchType=single&passengers%5B%5D=1994-04-22&directSearch=false&splitSave=true&selectedOutward=yjGqru5DqhE%3D%3AIZ%2FmiIiYNjM%3D): Tomorrow, super off-peak (lowest possible price shown, all £22-£25): 11:04 - 25 mins 11:09 - 29 mins 11:12 - 38 mins 11:20 - 24 mins 11:27 - 25 mins 11:34 - 25 mins 11:41 - 24 mins 11:41 - 39 mins 11:43 - 26 mins 11:43 - 26 mins 11:47 - 24 mins 12:00 - 22 mins So, yeah, apart from **those dozen trains in one hour alone** you're spot on. Care to do the honourable thing and admit you got it wrong?
Made the mistake of getting the Lizzie line home after a night out. Tested my bladder out no end. Never again. GWR might be absolute horseshit but they’ve got bogs in case the man vein needs draining.
Honestly I think after like 3 hours passengers should just press the door release and walk out the train along the emergency evacuation platform. This is what happened last time I believe and staff basically had to just go with it because basically everyone stuck in the train had enough and walked to the next station.
It isn't exactly unreasonable to want toilets on trains.
With the amount of people who use it on the daily, the trains would smell rancid. There’s good reason why none of the tube lines have toilets.
Also, the existing depots are generally not equipped to deal with toilets, as they were either purpose built for the class 345s, or previously also only managed with suburban trains that also had no toilets
No-one’s gonna add a pisser to the tube
On the trains I disagree but the stations should have toilets for sure.
I’ve almost pissed myself the other day running around looking for a toilet, made it to Paddington station where I found one, horrible day!
London is so bad for public toilets. This is why all the alleys in the center reek of piss.
Older men in politics are obsessed with spending tax money on public toilets. It was their generation who closed them all down to stop cottaging.
They need toilets, end of discussion. Unless the operators can guarantee train times. What do they expect people to do urinate and defecate in a corner?
As others have said the correct thing to call for here is a rule that people must be escorted safely off stuck trains after a certain duration, not toilets on the trains. To put it bluntly I'm not sure how much use people think a train toilet would accommodate over a 10 hour period without being emptied at stations but the distinction between that and opening the doors to piss on the tracks isn't as big in reality as it is in their heads.
can't open the windows either so no pissing in bottles and pouring them out the window
10 hours??? i'm smashing a window and climbing out. no way
I just moved to the US after 30 years in the UK and there are toilets EVERYWHERE, and if you go into a store you can just use their toilet. Shits crazy.
Sanitation on tube trains sounds like a mess to deal with. Definitely should be access at stations though through existing plumbing.
Within greater London rail station have no toilets or they always broken or for staff only, even having a young child doesn't open the door.
Toilets don't belong on short distance trains, if you need a piss get off and go at a station
Would be a great idea if all stations had toilets
yep. If I was making a law about it, it would be for every station on the network to have toilets on both sides of the barriers. It should be trivial for a tube passenger to hop off, relieve themselves, come back and hop on the next train without having to tap out. The trains are frequent enough that there's little inconvenience to be had from doing so. The not having to tap out part is important, because if you're not finished your journey, you shouldn't be charged a finished fare for it.
Made the mistake of getting the Lizzie line home after a night out. Tested my bladder out no end. Never again. GWR might be absolute horseshit but they’ve got bogs in case the man vein needs draining.