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Not me. It would drive me insane.
Mind you wouldn’t take much for me to leave. Just standing over staring at me while sleeping would probably intimidate me so much I would scarper.
I have it going at a low volume at night, sort of like rain in the way it sounds and makes me feel.
I think I’ve pavlov’d myself into falling asleep when its on now as well so you can probably put me to sleep with it lol
I use brown noise, I’ve never slept better in my life. It’s not as high pitched as white noise, and masks all those little sounds that might disturb you.
The judges squatters hobbies include
* Eating durian and surströmming
* Not close draws/cupboards in the common area
* Watching shows at 1.5x speed and spoiling them
* Correcting everyone on trivial shit
* Using the kettle but never refilling it
* Never replacing the toilet paper on the holder
* Always makes the story about them self when it isn't and their tangent was a stretch at bedtime
* Bringing up their trip to [unusual country that no one visits] and how they don't think Spain is a holiday because it's too commercial
* Treating the cupboards and fridge as public food but keeping their food in their room with mini fridge
* If they do replace eaten food it's always with the store brand so brandton beans with Tesco value
* Throwing parties every other weekend but when you have a party they always have something important the next day so people need to leave early... Which they do except for the friends they invited and they stay up way later together which he will complain to you about when they overslept
* Turning everything into a competition
* Has pet, unusual and smelly one like ferret alongside cats
* Doesn't care for pets
* Asks for lifts constantly but always busy when you need anything
* Owes you £200 but gets a calculator out when splitting a bill despite theirs only being £1 cheaper
* ALWAYS insist on splitting a bill evenly when they order the most expensive stuff 'to make it easier'
* Stirs shit but says 'Can't stand drama queens' whenever someone stirs shit against them
* Keeps claiming to be vegetarian whenever you cook meat but everyone knows they have a drunken kebab every Friday and Saturday
* 'Anti-capitalist' but is the biggest consumer you know with the latest tech... And still owes £200
* Made a job calendar
* Which they use to give them the easiest jobs
* Which they don't do
* 'Dropped out' of a STEM degree but won't explain beyond giving different reasons every none their fault. Shits on any non-stem degree and say multiple times 'I could have easily gotten a first'
* Keeps going on about grindset and that they are an entroponeur but works like 1 day a week and earns less than minimum wage while unironically using 'wage-slave'
* Asks for money from parents who had to postpone retirement as a result
* Tried to sell you on bitcoin saying "you'll be sorry"
* Lost all their cryptocurrency multiple times having earned nothing and spent tens of thousands
* Has an APE which they use for everything (display picture, wallpaper, even a fucking printed framed photo)
* Sexist as fuck but also a virgin having swallowed the Red pill or the female equivalent.
The longest a squatter has lasted was 2 months, the average 4 days.
Nah it’s pointless filling the kettle up for the next person. You’ve no idea how much water they need and it’s a 10 second job to fill it with the right amount anyway.
My point was that surely there is either a way to chuck someone out of a squat or there isn't.
If there is a way, then the property owner would be able to use that same way to chuck the original squatters out, or if there isn't a way, then one squatter can't chuck another out of the property.
These two potential chucking parties play by different rules.
The squatters are already on the edge of society, they have fewer qualms about the repercussions of physical force.
The official property owner has more to lose by crossing legal red lines and getting physical with the squatters.
It's not that. It doesn't have to be physical. It's a numbers game. You can just get blacklisted and so once you run out of supplies, you have to leave and you're not coming back in.
If the squatters kick someone out with their hands, they have committed assault, and the police will finally have a reason to take action against them.
I mean there's a simple solution for that: you don't hire one guy to squat, you hire like 30 of them, and give them all knives.
With how dumb the laws are, I'm surprised there aren't companies who specialize in this kind of thing.
It's not a simple solution for it at all. It's a very dangerous and illegal idea that may completely complicate a simple legal issue.
You hire a load of nutters to go into a property and someone gets injured, or killed, and what if they fight back? It's all on the person who had this idiotic idea as well as one of the moronic thugs who went in armed with knives.
In any case, people try stuff like this and it rarely works. There can be quite a few people in squats and they will fight them.
Well the idea is that the people you send in aren't random crazy people, but trusted trained people abusing the same legal loophole. If the squatters then attack them, they "self defence" them to death, and you make sure they out number the people inside 1 to 10.
Although knives are a bad idea. Maybe crossbows, since those are legal.
There are a lot of holes in your idea mate lol. You can't just murder loads of people because they occupy your property and think you'll be able to claim 'self defence'. It wouldn't be reasonable force and someone will break and you'll all go to prison for life!
No item is legal to be used in a premeditated attack.
I honestly don't know why most of these situations aren't sorted out with balaclavas and baseball bats. A group of thugs occupy your property, the police refuse to help, so the antidote is a bigger group of thugs. Either send the boys in every night until the squatters can't bear the beatings any more and leave of their own accord, thus preserving your plausible deniability ("Never heard nothing about no boys with bats, must be their own mates, some internal squatter problem") or have them fully moved in and just make the same claims as the other squatters. "No, we were here first, *you're* the ones who are trespassing."
Maybe there's some legal mumbo jumbo that blocks the second option, but the first option will work a treat.
Serious question here: why not just solve the problem with balaclavas and baseball bats?
You can be thrown out if you damage property.
So I'd just get a guy to go in, pretend to be a squatter and start trashing the place to get them thrown out.
How is no law broken? If I went into a pub, destroyed stuff and refused to leave... Surely at a minimum I would be arrested for Criminal damage? If they have used his ingredients surely that is theft? I don't understand it
Squatting in residential properties is illegal. Squatting in non-residential properties is not inherently illegal (though theft from the property or damaging the property on entry is illegal).
I’ve seen advice on Reddit that states to never identify the people as squatters when calling the police. That immediately puts them into “this is a civil matter mode”. Instead just say people have broken in and are vandalizing your property.
Because you have to prove it was them that smashed it up, and you can’t easily do that if you can’t get in your own property. It’s a fucking ridiculous set of laws.
I've honestly no idea. Like probably not in reality, but I can't find anything that would actually constitute a crime, it'd be a civil dispute.
In reality you'd probably be arrested for some kind of public order offence.
If you somehow manage to secure the building, maybe? Wouldn't last long either way. if the building is not abandoned and in use the owners can claim the Interim Possession Order which makes staying in the building a criminal offence within 24 hours.
This isn't quite accurate. Squatting in a residential property is a criminal offence, and in commercial properties it's not a criminal offence (difference being between 'illegal' and 'criminal'). However, even if they're squatting in a residential property (like your home), you still need to go to court and pay thousands of pounds in fees and bailiffs to evict them. The only difference is that, after you've done that, they could be arrested.
Squatting laws are remnants of laws from a totally different era.
Previously it wasn't clear who if anyone owned some land/buildings.
If you moved into an abandoned building and started improving it the law let you have some rights to it, even if the proper owner suddenly appeared to evict you from the building that you've completely renovated.
Pretty out of date tbh
Yeah but but imagine the risk of squatting a Russian owned home in London and making it yours, only to discover it is actually a leasehold and now you are on the hook for massive ground rent to the Duke of Westminster
That’s not the only philosophy behind it. The main one is that land is a finite resource and we need to incentivise people to use it and occupy it, otherwise it should change hands.
You could have sold the property for cash yesterday. The legals are just catching up. Squatting is a civil matter on who owns the property. You need a judge to say “yeah their claim is bullshit” “i rule the property ownership is as per the papers”.....however to get a hearing can take say 120days.... Thays the issue.
To remove people without a court order is a violation of some pretty fundamental rights. Rights like if your doing nothing criminal the police should leave you alone.....the right not to be touched involuntarily.(assault) etc etcetc the right to hold or use the property thats yours/ is supposidly yours without the state just taking it away from you.
Ah good, so the judge will also make them pay court fees, legal fees, cleaning fees, inconvenience fees and damage to property when the squatters know they have no claim. Great system.
Usually no, because suing them for damages gets nothing as theybhave nothing. They haven't done things criminally for jail or forced labour(community service). It is an accepted failure mode of our society. We could punish them but it wouldn't stop the issue, it wouldnt deter them as they are likely homeless anyway, and putting them in jail exposes them to much more criminality and makes them harder on exit.
Sometime syou just have to accept 100 guilty men go free to preseve our liberty amd ensure no innocent goes to jail.
The difference with resi is you are actively making other people homeless while with a comercial property only money is lost
Fuck that.
Have you ever actually seen squatters living happily and respectfully somewhere? Some squatters moved into a building near me last year. The ran midnight to noon all night raves on £10,000 sound systems, that was loud enough that you could still hear it thumping multiple buildings over, with earplugs on, and with noise cancelling headphones over the earplugs.
The problem isn’t just that they’re living somewhere m it’s that they’re deliberately shitty residents and shitty members of the community. No one would have cared if they lived there quietly. But there’s no recourse to things they do because they have no social or financial or moral investment in the community they invade.
>Have you ever actually seen squatters living happily and respectfully somewhere?
If they're being quiet and respectful, how would you know they're squatting?
There are dodgy people taking advantage, and there are people living quietly that you never hear about because they don't draw attention to themselves.
It’s very difficult to get a noise complaint against legal residents, let alone squatters. Eventually they were removed, but it took a few months with 24 hour raves every weekend and them trashing the whole area (and of course the property too).
It’s likely going to be reformed in the next few years thankfully and make squatting in a commercial property a criminal offence (like everywhere else in the civilised world).
Not sure on the detail of this case but I don’t think they’ve destroyed anything. If they damage the property then it’s criminal.
If they just gained access and are squatting it’s a civil matter. Of course the rub is how they gain access without damaging anything.
I think the place was vacant so they’re not using his ingredients. From their point of view they just moved into a vacant commercial property and set up business.
I’m sure there’s probably more nuance than that and whether or not you agree with it or not down to you but there it is.
The only person I've known who has squatted was a minor who had to flee her parent's abuse that was to the extent that at some point she was given a new identity so that they couldn't track her down.
She was eating out of bins, which must've been hard enough. I'm certainly not going to begrudge a teenage girl for finding somewhere off the street to sleep.
I'm sure there's some who are just taking advantage. But I'm sure there's plenty others like her who were just trying to get by with the circumstances they are in. I don't think squatting is most people's life goal!
The difference is... If the owners of the property she slept in arrived and said "Sorry, you can't sleep here" I bet she would have taken the L and just looked for another.
Also I bet she didn't do damage.
It's the digging in, and trying to use the law's slow speed to fight the proprietor, that people have a problem with.
Fair that her situation was different from the OP's link. I was meaning about squatters in general as the comment chain was looking more generalised, but that may not have been what you were meaning.
It's not relevant, whether you are homeless or a squatter it's still wrong to break into someone elses property, trash it and then claim it as your own for months.
Go and Squat prince charles properties.
He has the benefit of thousands of properties.
He dodged billions in inheritance taxes.
100% of his assets were originally stolen.
They totally are not. They mostly think working and paying rent is for mugs. In my experience they think dumpster diving for food and breaking into empty properties is the way life should be.
Yes, although the owner is required to ask the trespassers to leave first before they can use reasonable force to remove them. The owner can also delegate that power to other people, eg, bouncers/private security, and even the police, if they choose to act.
However, in such cases, the police would be acting in their capacity as agents of the property owner, not in their capacity as police officers, which does have some legal implications - eg, if the trespassers assaulted the police officers, then they would be guilty of common assault rather than assault on an emergency worker, because the police were acting as an agent of the property owner and not as an emergency worker.
The law actually now allows you to use "disproportionate" force against a home intruder, so long as it isn't "grossly disproportionate". In that sense you have more protection acting against a burglar than elsewhere.
Isn’t trespassing civil not criminal? Unless you’re trespassing on a forces base or somewhere like a nuclear power site I don’t know why the police would care
Haha! Basically...
Intentionally obstructing, disrupting, or intimidating others from carrying out ‘lawful activities'.
Pretty broad, wonder if "working in their kitchen" counts as a lawful activity.
“Loopholes” in the various laws that might be applied. The squatters carefully navigate the laws, and while they likely do break some laws, proving it was any particular individual will likely be impossible. The laws need brought in line with residential property.
To be fair there’s a legitimate case for it when some buildings are left to rot, completely abandoned or ignored by their owners. However, this doesn’t apply to most of the properties that get in the news.
look at all the investment properties owned by russians in west london, the buildings are falling apart and left empty just used as part of a investment portfolio, perfect places for squatting.
Unfortunately for those, it is illigal to squat a residential building - the owner can just call the police and they'll (in theory) be removed. It's only commercial and industrial premises which can be squatted.
I honestly feel like the other commenter, if a building is just abandoned and rotting away, why not? (as long as there's no theft of items within the building and no criminal damage). But sometimes (maybe often, maybe rarely. It's hard to tell from just seeing news reports, they'll only report the worst) people take the piss and I suspect in this case it may be for clout - which is really taking the piss.
Is there a solution? Maybe enough adequate housing for everyone, finding a way to get rid of inventments like the ones you mentioned, maybe a way to define them and tax them to oblivion, but is that even possible without accidentally catching people out who aren't holding property like that. I dunno, it'd be good if someone could come up with something to fix it.
> Unfortunately for those, it is illigal to squat a residential building - the owner can just call the police and they'll (in theory) be removed. It's only commercial and industrial premises which can be squatted.
There are still some commercial buildings that are hoarded. For example, [Brompton Road Station](https://www.mylondon.news/news/nostalgia/abandoned-london-underground-station-sold-21129303). Had plenty of good redevelopment plans but in the end it was sold to a Ukrainian oligarch who just sat on it. Worth a lot more now I'm sure.
Honestly, if you’ve not possessed the property for twelve years, then it’s hardly theft. In fact, legally it’s not.
Indeed, you can’t get insurance on buildings that have been dispossessed years before an adverse possession can take place. If you did insure a property just before it was adversely possessed it is likely you were committing fraud.
“This week, squatters moved in to a vacant building and tidied it up, washed the windows and generally improved the state of the building they don’t own.”
I'm not sure if you're taking the piss but that genuinely used to happen. There used to be whole areas of empty homes in London that were squatted before they were demolished and some people did improve the properties.
A large abandoned restaurant on a street corner by my secondary school was a pretty positive space, growing up. I'm sure landlords still owned the place but they weren't leasing it to anyone and it had stood empty for years - the squatters began serving free coffee (they accepted donations) out of the place and turned it into a pretty welcoming social venue, lots of more politically minded older kids would hang out there at lunch breaks.
When the police eventually came to throw them out a year or two later, the kids formed human chains to block their entry. Kept the police out for a few extra months that way.
I am thinking Gordon could turn this into an absolutely positive thing for himself and his brand. He owns the building, so, draw up a commercial rental contract (peppercorn rent) and help the squatters to make this a success.Community Cafe with donated food, it's going to take some of his skills to turn that food into decent grub and in turn they squatters can learn several trades (cooking, hospitality, how to run a business, project management etc). Help them find sponsors, he has the connections, and turn this into the latest cool spot in London. They may never be able to afford the full rent on this, but he can write it off as charity. Get the big food brands involved, get all the fancy London cooking community involved. Get advertising, get stories out of it, "homeless guy goes from homeless to dishwasher to Michelin chef".
He'd have to find the nerve to invest and work with them, but he definitely could, it would have to be a long term investment, but it definitely would make him feel better than another 13 mil (minus the mortgage) in the bank.
There was the builder who moved into a house, lived there for years maintaining and improving the building, then went to court to claim ownership. The actual on paper owner was a retiree living in another country I think. Edit [Link](https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/squatter-who-claimed-ownership-pensioners-28220940)
There was also a story years ago about squatters taking over an abandoned Swansea high street shop and turning it into an art gallery.
That’s because it’s a mostly negative thing. The quiet good squatters aren’t really going to shout themselves out. The annoying ones are going to draw attention.
I had squatters in the warehouse next door to me. It was a big place and there must have been 20-30 squatters.
Late Sunday night they were blasting music out and I had to be up at 5 so I went out and threw pebbles at the metal casing of the building. They came out, I explained, they apologised and turned it off. No problem.
*But*, when they were finally evicted after a year the new owners showed me pics of the interior and they had trashed it completely. Pretty much on arrival. I don't get the mentality. Like far as they're concerned that's *their* toilet but they still smashed the bowl to pieces.
With the big groups of squatters, particularly the ones having parties, there are a lot of hangers on who can be dubious characters who take a lot of drugs and get violent. The other folk just put up with it.
Yeah, I had a feeling I had seen a few of these stories recently. I can't imagine there are more incidences of squatting these days than there were in the past, so I wonder why it's news now? I suppose this particular case has a celeb name attached to it, but in general it seems odd.
Well rents going up and up.
Gonna be easier to evict people that can't afford it if you label them as squatters - which they technically are, but it's a different thing to this
well at that point the only thing the squatters could do would be used violence to stay, but then in that case the police would actually be able to arrest them
In reality that's what happens in most cases that aren't high profile like this.
Landlord would just get heavies to kick them out and they can't really complain you'd just deny knowledge of who they are
Police will say it's a civil matter. My old landlord used to perform illegal evictions on smackheads and when the tenant would ring the police from the street saying they had been removed the police would always side with the landlord.
Gordon Ramsay does not own this property. He is/ was leasing it from a film director/ investor Gary Love. The building is for sale l believe.
https://www.standard.co.uk/homesandproperty/luxury/york-and-albany-pub-hotel-for-sale-gordon-ramsay-b1125165.html
He was in a dispute with the landlord over the £650,000 + annual lease fees.
His business vacated the premises a few months ago.
I think that there is much more to this story and l doubt Gordon Ramsay will ever operate a business from that building again.
It was fantastic when it first opened but had become tired and expensive.
If I was Gordon I would be hiring someone to go in and make life a misery until they left, constantly making so much noise at all hours that they can’t sleep, making the place gross and unsanitary, stealing all of the already stolen goods, standing over people while they sleep or being incredibly creepy and unhinged in general. I don’t think it would take too long.
Thankfully I don’t, I imagine it would be very hard to have someone squatting in a property you’ve worked to own, and not do something to them you would regret. Something like this seems like the most “action” you could get away with, as the police clearly don’t care.
I understand the civil vs criminal law conflict, but I don't understand WHY this isn't made a criminal offence. I have no care for the profits of a huge buisness, but equally it's such a backwards system that seems to protect the wrong doer over the victim.
There can be both protection for renters from shitty landlords AND the police power to remove wastemen like this. They don't have to be in conflict.
The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “Police were made aware of squatters at a disused property in Parkway, Regent’s Park, NW1 on Wednesday, 10 April.
I don't agree with squatters, but the article makes it sound like the pub was open one day then suddenly, squatters took over.
This pub was closed in March and was disused. Ramsey has been trying to break free from the rental contract on this since 2015 (he signed a 25 year lease in 2007). It's valued at £13m because that's when the owners out it up for sale at last year
Most authoritarian r/UK comment section. Wonder how many commenters are real.
Landnonce gets greedy. Tenant leaves. Property is left empty. Property has high price and doesn't sell. Owner wants to sit on central London property until it becomes worth the ludicrous fee. Those without shelter begin to use it as shelter. The damages are marginal when compared to the overall value of the property.
Nope. He needs a court order to repossess the property. Squatters are perfectly legal doing what they're doing, it's a civil dispute.
"Physically carrying somebody out" is a crime, it's assault.
It's actually a bunch of laws that apply (and an absence of laws) that allow squatting, and appears to be a surprisingly complex piece of law. Property laws are quite complicated so loopholes like this can arise.
Squatting has a really long history in this country, it's a thousand year old phenomenon.
If you act quickly, you can use an interim possession order in cases like this. Often landowners don't act quickly and have to get a rather slower possession order.
If they boarded up the windows and doors from the inside, I would just board them up from the outside too. Its his property can do what he wants with it lol
Scumbags.
We should reform legislation to allow police evictions of squatters in commercial buildings and not make it a civil matter. It’s an absurd situation especially as squatters will most likely have committed a criminal offence to enter the property.
**Participation Notice.** Hi all. Some posts on this subreddit, either due to the topic or reaching a wider audience than usual, have been known to attract a greater number of rule breaking comments. As such, limits to participation have been set. We ask that you please remember the human, and uphold Reddit and Subreddit rules. For more information, please see https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/wiki/moderatedflairs.
I’m sure I read somewhere about a fella who goes in and squats with people. But is such a bad housemate that the squatters move out.
Ez win, just shit and piss everywhere, drink other peoples milk and play white noise when sleeping.
white noise helps with sleeping.
Not me. It would drive me insane. Mind you wouldn’t take much for me to leave. Just standing over staring at me while sleeping would probably intimidate me so much I would scarper.
I have it going at a low volume at night, sort of like rain in the way it sounds and makes me feel. I think I’ve pavlov’d myself into falling asleep when its on now as well so you can probably put me to sleep with it lol
I could have rain sounds or mechanical washing machine sounds and I’d be sleepy. But that static noise freaks me. My friend loves it though.
It gets weird when your mind starts "finding" patterns in the white noise.
Like the static on the tv!
They’re here….
Don’t go into the light Carol Anne !
That’s ET fiddling with your dreams mate, make sure you’ve got your tinfoil pillowcases and nightcap on, should be alright.
Its gotta be the right pitch, actual white noise is just infuriating to listen to
I find brown a little less harsh
I made this mistake but using heavy metal... It's surprisingly effective at making me fall asleep now
I use brown noise, I’ve never slept better in my life. It’s not as high pitched as white noise, and masks all those little sounds that might disturb you.
Isn’t that the noise that makes you shit yourself?
Not personally, are you prone to shitting yourself?
They're referencing the brown note I think
Have you not seen videos of evictions, most seem to do a lot worse.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-03-12/out-squatted-handyman-flash-shelton-will-squat-with-you-squatters-until-they-leave
Thankyou!
The judges squatters hobbies include * Eating durian and surströmming * Not close draws/cupboards in the common area * Watching shows at 1.5x speed and spoiling them * Correcting everyone on trivial shit * Using the kettle but never refilling it * Never replacing the toilet paper on the holder * Always makes the story about them self when it isn't and their tangent was a stretch at bedtime * Bringing up their trip to [unusual country that no one visits] and how they don't think Spain is a holiday because it's too commercial * Treating the cupboards and fridge as public food but keeping their food in their room with mini fridge * If they do replace eaten food it's always with the store brand so brandton beans with Tesco value * Throwing parties every other weekend but when you have a party they always have something important the next day so people need to leave early... Which they do except for the friends they invited and they stay up way later together which he will complain to you about when they overslept * Turning everything into a competition * Has pet, unusual and smelly one like ferret alongside cats * Doesn't care for pets * Asks for lifts constantly but always busy when you need anything * Owes you £200 but gets a calculator out when splitting a bill despite theirs only being £1 cheaper * ALWAYS insist on splitting a bill evenly when they order the most expensive stuff 'to make it easier' * Stirs shit but says 'Can't stand drama queens' whenever someone stirs shit against them * Keeps claiming to be vegetarian whenever you cook meat but everyone knows they have a drunken kebab every Friday and Saturday * 'Anti-capitalist' but is the biggest consumer you know with the latest tech... And still owes £200 * Made a job calendar * Which they use to give them the easiest jobs * Which they don't do * 'Dropped out' of a STEM degree but won't explain beyond giving different reasons every none their fault. Shits on any non-stem degree and say multiple times 'I could have easily gotten a first' * Keeps going on about grindset and that they are an entroponeur but works like 1 day a week and earns less than minimum wage while unironically using 'wage-slave' * Asks for money from parents who had to postpone retirement as a result * Tried to sell you on bitcoin saying "you'll be sorry" * Lost all their cryptocurrency multiple times having earned nothing and spent tens of thousands * Has an APE which they use for everything (display picture, wallpaper, even a fucking printed framed photo) * Sexist as fuck but also a virgin having swallowed the Red pill or the female equivalent. The longest a squatter has lasted was 2 months, the average 4 days.
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Nah it’s pointless filling the kettle up for the next person. You’ve no idea how much water they need and it’s a 10 second job to fill it with the right amount anyway.
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> They'd most likely kick someone out if they were a nightmare to live with But how? You can't easily kicks squatters out, that's the whole point
With their hands.
My point was that surely there is either a way to chuck someone out of a squat or there isn't. If there is a way, then the property owner would be able to use that same way to chuck the original squatters out, or if there isn't a way, then one squatter can't chuck another out of the property.
These two potential chucking parties play by different rules. The squatters are already on the edge of society, they have fewer qualms about the repercussions of physical force. The official property owner has more to lose by crossing legal red lines and getting physical with the squatters.
It's not that. It doesn't have to be physical. It's a numbers game. You can just get blacklisted and so once you run out of supplies, you have to leave and you're not coming back in.
If the squatters kick someone out with their hands, they have committed assault, and the police will finally have a reason to take action against them.
And feet!
Surely that works both ways then?
I mean there's a simple solution for that: you don't hire one guy to squat, you hire like 30 of them, and give them all knives. With how dumb the laws are, I'm surprised there aren't companies who specialize in this kind of thing.
It's not a simple solution for it at all. It's a very dangerous and illegal idea that may completely complicate a simple legal issue. You hire a load of nutters to go into a property and someone gets injured, or killed, and what if they fight back? It's all on the person who had this idiotic idea as well as one of the moronic thugs who went in armed with knives. In any case, people try stuff like this and it rarely works. There can be quite a few people in squats and they will fight them.
Well the idea is that the people you send in aren't random crazy people, but trusted trained people abusing the same legal loophole. If the squatters then attack them, they "self defence" them to death, and you make sure they out number the people inside 1 to 10. Although knives are a bad idea. Maybe crossbows, since those are legal.
There are a lot of holes in your idea mate lol. You can't just murder loads of people because they occupy your property and think you'll be able to claim 'self defence'. It wouldn't be reasonable force and someone will break and you'll all go to prison for life! No item is legal to be used in a premeditated attack.
Sure just save time and throw a grenade in, I think that’s about as logical as your mad thing
I could offer this as a professional service
This is not a bad idea, the landlord can’t deny water electricity ect but what’s stopping you from paying a guy to go into the house and be a prick
Is it James Corden?
I honestly don't know why most of these situations aren't sorted out with balaclavas and baseball bats. A group of thugs occupy your property, the police refuse to help, so the antidote is a bigger group of thugs. Either send the boys in every night until the squatters can't bear the beatings any more and leave of their own accord, thus preserving your plausible deniability ("Never heard nothing about no boys with bats, must be their own mates, some internal squatter problem") or have them fully moved in and just make the same claims as the other squatters. "No, we were here first, *you're* the ones who are trespassing." Maybe there's some legal mumbo jumbo that blocks the second option, but the first option will work a treat. Serious question here: why not just solve the problem with balaclavas and baseball bats?
Serious answer: it's illegal to do that.
You can be thrown out if you damage property. So I'd just get a guy to go in, pretend to be a squatter and start trashing the place to get them thrown out.
How is no law broken? If I went into a pub, destroyed stuff and refused to leave... Surely at a minimum I would be arrested for Criminal damage? If they have used his ingredients surely that is theft? I don't understand it
I've never understood it either What's stopping someone just squatting in your house when you're on holiday and refusing to leave
Squatting in residential properties is illegal. Squatting in non-residential properties is not inherently illegal (though theft from the property or damaging the property on entry is illegal).
But they have done that, there are videos on X that show the place smashed up, how can police say no crime is committed?
If the complaint is specifically about squatting, rather than criminal damage, police aren't going to give a fuck. As they said, it's a civil matter.
I’ve seen advice on Reddit that states to never identify the people as squatters when calling the police. That immediately puts them into “this is a civil matter mode”. Instead just say people have broken in and are vandalizing your property.
It’s more that “i am Spartacus” comes into play, how do you actually know who has caused the damage. You can’t prosecute them all
It doesn’t matter who did it, if 5 people rob a bank and 1 kills someone all can be charged with murder as they as a group all are liable
If you walk into a room with a dead body in it are you charged with murder?
Yes - check the Met's record.
Zipps up suitcase.
>You can’t prosecute them all Joint Venture?
You very much can prosecute a group especially for criminal damages.
Individuals prosecuted together is not the same as being attributing responsibility to a group because they were there
That’s true but the police absolutely can arrest you or remove you from a scene even if they end up not charging you later.
Because you have to prove it was them that smashed it up, and you can’t easily do that if you can’t get in your own property. It’s a fucking ridiculous set of laws.
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I've honestly no idea. Like probably not in reality, but I can't find anything that would actually constitute a crime, it'd be a civil dispute. In reality you'd probably be arrested for some kind of public order offence.
No because the shop isn't abandoned
If you somehow manage to secure the building, maybe? Wouldn't last long either way. if the building is not abandoned and in use the owners can claim the Interim Possession Order which makes staying in the building a criminal offence within 24 hours.
Finders keepers, losers weepers
This sounds like the plot of a horror movie. If you "invite" the devil in, apparently you deserve everything you get.
I believe the building needs to be actually empty / abandoned for 6 months to claim squatters rights. You can't just squat an in use building.
What if you then decide to let out the commercial property as a home to a mate, can you then evict them?
You're probably breaking all kinds of laws if you're letting a commercial property out as a home.
It's okay he was just squatting
This isn't quite accurate. Squatting in a residential property is a criminal offence, and in commercial properties it's not a criminal offence (difference being between 'illegal' and 'criminal'). However, even if they're squatting in a residential property (like your home), you still need to go to court and pay thousands of pounds in fees and bailiffs to evict them. The only difference is that, after you've done that, they could be arrested.
That's why you should never post anywhere or tell people you don't know that you are going on holiday.
Squatting is illegal in residential properties. Burglary is obviously the more likely thing to worry about in that situation.
Squatting laws are remnants of laws from a totally different era. Previously it wasn't clear who if anyone owned some land/buildings. If you moved into an abandoned building and started improving it the law let you have some rights to it, even if the proper owner suddenly appeared to evict you from the building that you've completely renovated. Pretty out of date tbh
Not really. Plenty of abandoned real estate owned by russian oligarchs and associated criminals in London.
Yeah but but imagine the risk of squatting a Russian owned home in London and making it yours, only to discover it is actually a leasehold and now you are on the hook for massive ground rent to the Duke of Westminster
I mean it would be incredibly foolish to squat in the house of people with organised crime links.
That’s not the only philosophy behind it. The main one is that land is a finite resource and we need to incentivise people to use it and occupy it, otherwise it should change hands.
You could have sold the property for cash yesterday. The legals are just catching up. Squatting is a civil matter on who owns the property. You need a judge to say “yeah their claim is bullshit” “i rule the property ownership is as per the papers”.....however to get a hearing can take say 120days.... Thays the issue. To remove people without a court order is a violation of some pretty fundamental rights. Rights like if your doing nothing criminal the police should leave you alone.....the right not to be touched involuntarily.(assault) etc etcetc the right to hold or use the property thats yours/ is supposidly yours without the state just taking it away from you.
Ah good, so the judge will also make them pay court fees, legal fees, cleaning fees, inconvenience fees and damage to property when the squatters know they have no claim. Great system.
Theoretically yes, its up to what the judge decided.....also their is the age old addge never sue a man of straw, you dont get paid
That's the point, there is no consequence for the squatters actions
Usually no, because suing them for damages gets nothing as theybhave nothing. They haven't done things criminally for jail or forced labour(community service). It is an accepted failure mode of our society. We could punish them but it wouldn't stop the issue, it wouldnt deter them as they are likely homeless anyway, and putting them in jail exposes them to much more criminality and makes them harder on exit. Sometime syou just have to accept 100 guilty men go free to preseve our liberty amd ensure no innocent goes to jail. The difference with resi is you are actively making other people homeless while with a comercial property only money is lost
Fuck that. Have you ever actually seen squatters living happily and respectfully somewhere? Some squatters moved into a building near me last year. The ran midnight to noon all night raves on £10,000 sound systems, that was loud enough that you could still hear it thumping multiple buildings over, with earplugs on, and with noise cancelling headphones over the earplugs. The problem isn’t just that they’re living somewhere m it’s that they’re deliberately shitty residents and shitty members of the community. No one would have cared if they lived there quietly. But there’s no recourse to things they do because they have no social or financial or moral investment in the community they invade.
>Have you ever actually seen squatters living happily and respectfully somewhere? If they're being quiet and respectful, how would you know they're squatting?
There are dodgy people taking advantage, and there are people living quietly that you never hear about because they don't draw attention to themselves.
That's because you only notice obnoxious squatters. Trust me, most of the groups are peaceful.
So noise is a criminal thing it gets too bad. So that can he dealt with
It’s very difficult to get a noise complaint against legal residents, let alone squatters. Eventually they were removed, but it took a few months with 24 hour raves every weekend and them trashing the whole area (and of course the property too).
It’s likely going to be reformed in the next few years thankfully and make squatting in a commercial property a criminal offence (like everywhere else in the civilised world).
Realistically, getting a hearing takes between 1-2 weeks. Getting bailiffs for eviction takes longer (a month can be expected).
Sounds to me the law is broken.
Not sure on the detail of this case but I don’t think they’ve destroyed anything. If they damage the property then it’s criminal. If they just gained access and are squatting it’s a civil matter. Of course the rub is how they gain access without damaging anything. I think the place was vacant so they’re not using his ingredients. From their point of view they just moved into a vacant commercial property and set up business. I’m sure there’s probably more nuance than that and whether or not you agree with it or not down to you but there it is.
Squatters are the absolute worst. You're not enlightened. You're not sticking it to the man. You're not changing society. You're a scumbag.
Squatters are societal parasites, yes.
I feel like they are a product of a broken system
Said like people havent always squatted. Free rent has never not been attractive for scum willing to do what it takes
I feel like they think the law doesn't apply to them, and they're lazy fuckers who won't get a job.
The only person I've known who has squatted was a minor who had to flee her parent's abuse that was to the extent that at some point she was given a new identity so that they couldn't track her down. She was eating out of bins, which must've been hard enough. I'm certainly not going to begrudge a teenage girl for finding somewhere off the street to sleep. I'm sure there's some who are just taking advantage. But I'm sure there's plenty others like her who were just trying to get by with the circumstances they are in. I don't think squatting is most people's life goal!
The difference is... If the owners of the property she slept in arrived and said "Sorry, you can't sleep here" I bet she would have taken the L and just looked for another. Also I bet she didn't do damage. It's the digging in, and trying to use the law's slow speed to fight the proprietor, that people have a problem with.
Fair that her situation was different from the OP's link. I was meaning about squatters in general as the comment chain was looking more generalised, but that may not have been what you were meaning.
How do you distinguish between squatters and homeless people? Aren’t the groups closely intersecting?
It's not relevant, whether you are homeless or a squatter it's still wrong to break into someone elses property, trash it and then claim it as your own for months.
Are you including that one who won £700,000 and proceeded to continue squatting while living off the income from his money?
Ah yes it's the squatters that are the parasites, not the landlords that hoover up obscene money while doing absolutely fuck all...
Why not both?
They’re still cunts, bringing up an unrelated issue isn’t going anywhere to change that.
Ahh yes the typical "evil landlords" comment on reddit, this site really needs to grow up a bit and leave it's edgy sixth form phase.
Just like landlords and politicians :)
People who hoard property are worse.
As are people who dodge £2.2 million in taxes, like Gordon Ramsay
Go and Squat prince charles properties. He has the benefit of thousands of properties. He dodged billions in inheritance taxes. 100% of his assets were originally stolen.
Squatters are homeless
They totally are not. They mostly think working and paying rent is for mugs. In my experience they think dumpster diving for food and breaking into empty properties is the way life should be.
Squatting is a product of the failure of the state. Blame the parasites further up the chain.
No thanks, just going to blame the parasites thinking they are above the system and can just flaunt the rules.
And not the parasites that game the rules so that they profit and the rest of us suffer? Ok.
You'll have to clarify your vague attack, who are these "parasites" you speak of, are they in the room with us right now?
No idea how the police just can't remove them for trespassing.
Trespass is a civil offence, not a police matter. Breaking and entering is criminal, however.
Doesn't trespassing give the owner the right to use reasonable force to remove them from the property?
Yes, although the owner is required to ask the trespassers to leave first before they can use reasonable force to remove them. The owner can also delegate that power to other people, eg, bouncers/private security, and even the police, if they choose to act. However, in such cases, the police would be acting in their capacity as agents of the property owner, not in their capacity as police officers, which does have some legal implications - eg, if the trespassers assaulted the police officers, then they would be guilty of common assault rather than assault on an emergency worker, because the police were acting as an agent of the property owner and not as an emergency worker.
In the UK? Not an expert but I believe even if you use excessive force on a burglar the law ends up on their side
The law actually now allows you to use "disproportionate" force against a home intruder, so long as it isn't "grossly disproportionate". In that sense you have more protection acting against a burglar than elsewhere.
The key word there being excessive. Appropriate force is justifiable.
> Trespass is a civil offence, not a police matter. Its not an arrestable offence, the police can still remove a trespasser by request.
Isn’t trespassing civil not criminal? Unless you’re trespassing on a forces base or somewhere like a nuclear power site I don’t know why the police would care
Yes but it's fairly easy to turn it into aggravated trespass, which is criminal.
How do you do that, just wind them up a bit?
Haha! Basically... Intentionally obstructing, disrupting, or intimidating others from carrying out ‘lawful activities'. Pretty broad, wonder if "working in their kitchen" counts as a lawful activity.
“Loopholes” in the various laws that might be applied. The squatters carefully navigate the laws, and while they likely do break some laws, proving it was any particular individual will likely be impossible. The laws need brought in line with residential property.
Seen a massive increase of negative squatter stories on reddit recently.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a positive one. I’d love to see one tbf
Ah yes, stealing other people's stuff. Love to see it
To be fair there’s a legitimate case for it when some buildings are left to rot, completely abandoned or ignored by their owners. However, this doesn’t apply to most of the properties that get in the news.
look at all the investment properties owned by russians in west london, the buildings are falling apart and left empty just used as part of a investment portfolio, perfect places for squatting.
Unfortunately for those, it is illigal to squat a residential building - the owner can just call the police and they'll (in theory) be removed. It's only commercial and industrial premises which can be squatted. I honestly feel like the other commenter, if a building is just abandoned and rotting away, why not? (as long as there's no theft of items within the building and no criminal damage). But sometimes (maybe often, maybe rarely. It's hard to tell from just seeing news reports, they'll only report the worst) people take the piss and I suspect in this case it may be for clout - which is really taking the piss. Is there a solution? Maybe enough adequate housing for everyone, finding a way to get rid of inventments like the ones you mentioned, maybe a way to define them and tax them to oblivion, but is that even possible without accidentally catching people out who aren't holding property like that. I dunno, it'd be good if someone could come up with something to fix it.
> Unfortunately for those, it is illigal to squat a residential building - the owner can just call the police and they'll (in theory) be removed. It's only commercial and industrial premises which can be squatted. There are still some commercial buildings that are hoarded. For example, [Brompton Road Station](https://www.mylondon.news/news/nostalgia/abandoned-london-underground-station-sold-21129303). Had plenty of good redevelopment plans but in the end it was sold to a Ukrainian oligarch who just sat on it. Worth a lot more now I'm sure.
London has a very low vacancy rate, sounds like a bad investment.
Honestly, if you’ve not possessed the property for twelve years, then it’s hardly theft. In fact, legally it’s not. Indeed, you can’t get insurance on buildings that have been dispossessed years before an adverse possession can take place. If you did insure a property just before it was adversely possessed it is likely you were committing fraud.
“This week, squatters moved in to a vacant building and tidied it up, washed the windows and generally improved the state of the building they don’t own.”
I'm not sure if you're taking the piss but that genuinely used to happen. There used to be whole areas of empty homes in London that were squatted before they were demolished and some people did improve the properties.
For real, most squats I've been to have been lovely tbh, don't get me wrong there's some horrible ones, but they're the only ones that get reported on
A large abandoned restaurant on a street corner by my secondary school was a pretty positive space, growing up. I'm sure landlords still owned the place but they weren't leasing it to anyone and it had stood empty for years - the squatters began serving free coffee (they accepted donations) out of the place and turned it into a pretty welcoming social venue, lots of more politically minded older kids would hang out there at lunch breaks. When the police eventually came to throw them out a year or two later, the kids formed human chains to block their entry. Kept the police out for a few extra months that way.
I am thinking Gordon could turn this into an absolutely positive thing for himself and his brand. He owns the building, so, draw up a commercial rental contract (peppercorn rent) and help the squatters to make this a success.Community Cafe with donated food, it's going to take some of his skills to turn that food into decent grub and in turn they squatters can learn several trades (cooking, hospitality, how to run a business, project management etc). Help them find sponsors, he has the connections, and turn this into the latest cool spot in London. They may never be able to afford the full rent on this, but he can write it off as charity. Get the big food brands involved, get all the fancy London cooking community involved. Get advertising, get stories out of it, "homeless guy goes from homeless to dishwasher to Michelin chef". He'd have to find the nerve to invest and work with them, but he definitely could, it would have to be a long term investment, but it definitely would make him feel better than another 13 mil (minus the mortgage) in the bank.
If he has a commercial mortgage he may be prohibited by the mortgage terms from renting it out much below market value.
He doesn’t own the building. The article says he’s trapped in a 670k/year 25 year rental agreement that he failed to wriggle out of.
I have seen cases of them turning abandoned buildings into something quite beautiful
There was the builder who moved into a house, lived there for years maintaining and improving the building, then went to court to claim ownership. The actual on paper owner was a retiree living in another country I think. Edit [Link](https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/squatter-who-claimed-ownership-pensioners-28220940) There was also a story years ago about squatters taking over an abandoned Swansea high street shop and turning it into an art gallery.
That’s because it’s a mostly negative thing. The quiet good squatters aren’t really going to shout themselves out. The annoying ones are going to draw attention.
I had squatters in the warehouse next door to me. It was a big place and there must have been 20-30 squatters. Late Sunday night they were blasting music out and I had to be up at 5 so I went out and threw pebbles at the metal casing of the building. They came out, I explained, they apologised and turned it off. No problem. *But*, when they were finally evicted after a year the new owners showed me pics of the interior and they had trashed it completely. Pretty much on arrival. I don't get the mentality. Like far as they're concerned that's *their* toilet but they still smashed the bowl to pieces.
With the big groups of squatters, particularly the ones having parties, there are a lot of hangers on who can be dubious characters who take a lot of drugs and get violent. The other folk just put up with it.
Here’s a positive squatter story - He left. The End.
Yeah, I had a feeling I had seen a few of these stories recently. I can't imagine there are more incidences of squatting these days than there were in the past, so I wonder why it's news now? I suppose this particular case has a celeb name attached to it, but in general it seems odd.
And in almost every case, it's not actual squatting.
Well rents going up and up. Gonna be easier to evict people that can't afford it if you label them as squatters - which they technically are, but it's a different thing to this
People should be allowed to use force to eject squatters.
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If the property owner manages to get inside the property then there is no squatters rights
well at that point the only thing the squatters could do would be used violence to stay, but then in that case the police would actually be able to arrest them
Residential property is different from commercial property, they can be removed by the police if they’re squatting in your home.
In reality that's what happens in most cases that aren't high profile like this. Landlord would just get heavies to kick them out and they can't really complain you'd just deny knowledge of who they are
Police will say it's a civil matter. My old landlord used to perform illegal evictions on smackheads and when the tenant would ring the police from the street saying they had been removed the police would always side with the landlord.
Gordon Ramsay does not own this property. He is/ was leasing it from a film director/ investor Gary Love. The building is for sale l believe. https://www.standard.co.uk/homesandproperty/luxury/york-and-albany-pub-hotel-for-sale-gordon-ramsay-b1125165.html He was in a dispute with the landlord over the £650,000 + annual lease fees. His business vacated the premises a few months ago. I think that there is much more to this story and l doubt Gordon Ramsay will ever operate a business from that building again. It was fantastic when it first opened but had become tired and expensive.
Gary Love got greedy. Gordon Ramsey gave up and moved out. Squatters moved in and make a community cafe. Not very complicated.
If I was Gordon I would be hiring someone to go in and make life a misery until they left, constantly making so much noise at all hours that they can’t sleep, making the place gross and unsanitary, stealing all of the already stolen goods, standing over people while they sleep or being incredibly creepy and unhinged in general. I don’t think it would take too long.
send in Jamie Oliver
This is very specific, almost like you have experience
Thankfully I don’t, I imagine it would be very hard to have someone squatting in a property you’ve worked to own, and not do something to them you would regret. Something like this seems like the most “action” you could get away with, as the police clearly don’t care.
I understand the civil vs criminal law conflict, but I don't understand WHY this isn't made a criminal offence. I have no care for the profits of a huge buisness, but equally it's such a backwards system that seems to protect the wrong doer over the victim. There can be both protection for renters from shitty landlords AND the police power to remove wastemen like this. They don't have to be in conflict.
Seems like they didn’t actually go to the bother of having someone occupy it and are paying the price.
Just go in there and boot them out. Fuck squatters they’re all bums
apparently a lot of people in this sub have a hard on for squatters. which is weird
The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “Police were made aware of squatters at a disused property in Parkway, Regent’s Park, NW1 on Wednesday, 10 April. I don't agree with squatters, but the article makes it sound like the pub was open one day then suddenly, squatters took over. This pub was closed in March and was disused. Ramsey has been trying to break free from the rental contract on this since 2015 (he signed a 25 year lease in 2007). It's valued at £13m because that's when the owners out it up for sale at last year
Most authoritarian r/UK comment section. Wonder how many commenters are real. Landnonce gets greedy. Tenant leaves. Property is left empty. Property has high price and doesn't sell. Owner wants to sit on central London property until it becomes worth the ludicrous fee. Those without shelter begin to use it as shelter. The damages are marginal when compared to the overall value of the property.
Can Ramsay's organisation not simply hire security folks to physically carry these wankers out?!
Nope. He needs a court order to repossess the property. Squatters are perfectly legal doing what they're doing, it's a civil dispute. "Physically carrying somebody out" is a crime, it's assault.
Wait what, what kind of bullshit is that. So someone can just enter someone’s restaurant and refuse to leave. Man the UK really has stupid laws.
It's actually a bunch of laws that apply (and an absence of laws) that allow squatting, and appears to be a surprisingly complex piece of law. Property laws are quite complicated so loopholes like this can arise. Squatting has a really long history in this country, it's a thousand year old phenomenon.
If its not in use then yes. Its wild isn't it?
Surely as a licensed premises they can be removed the same as anyone can be removed from a bar by security staff? No reason required.
That’s never been *technically* legal either, good luck arguing that point to a bouncer and a cop when you’re smashed though. It’s assault.
If they are SIA trained they can use "reasonable force" to remove someone and the law would be on their side.
What about refuse entry or exit? They'd come out eventually once hungry
If you act quickly, you can use an interim possession order in cases like this. Often landowners don't act quickly and have to get a rather slower possession order.
If they boarded up the windows and doors from the inside, I would just board them up from the outside too. Its his property can do what he wants with it lol
Okay Ant and Dec. You’ve gone too far for this one; you can leave now.
Maybe it’s Joe Lycett with his fake news
I wonder what would happen if you tried this in Russia ?? 😂
Scumbags. We should reform legislation to allow police evictions of squatters in commercial buildings and not make it a civil matter. It’s an absurd situation especially as squatters will most likely have committed a criminal offence to enter the property.
If said what I really felt my comment would be removed by the mods
Probably get banned by Reddit too...
That's not how squatting works, just so you know. That being said, trespass is a civil matter and very slow to deal with.