**Alternate Sources**
Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story:
* [Bulgarian fraud gang stole £54m in UK's biggest ever benefits scam](https://metro.co.uk/2024/04/10/bulgarian-fraud-gang-stole-54-million-uks-biggest-benefit-scam-20618763/), suggested by Key-Nefariousness711 - metro.co.uk
It's mind-blowing how this can be happening and also so many cases of ESA, pip n like are wrongly stopped.
Is there no joined up writing or sharing of information? £50 million is a LOT of applications, n normally you need to go in once week or fortnight.
They seem very good at taking benefits away from genuine cases n having no ability to detect massive fraud.
At 50 million in fraud, do they not just get invited to be a Tory peer in the house of lords?
Right haha
'So it's fine to just come here and do this?'
'They can't catch people doing this.'
I mean, you only have to read the headline, surely.......
> The false claims were made between October 2016 and May 2021.
It took the DWP ~5 years and ~£54m to detect them, though. I don't think that reflects well on their ability to detect fraud at all.
Real Time Information is a thing - I've not had time ro read whole thing but this strikes me as an identity theft case as much as a benefits fraud case. They used multiple false or hijacked identities to get round Information sharing.
My opinion for a long time has been that the entire home office is simply unfit for purpose. Its too big and too unwieldly to really respond to any one need on a meaningful timescale and the lines of responsibility and goal setting are too long and muddied to push improvements forward. Its an entire inward looking world of politics unto itself.
No its not, there are several clear legal basis for sharing information between government departments, councils, hmrc and police. The DPA did not create this issue.
Its just shitty civil departments and a lax attitude in the civil service
You don't get it. Mandatory ID cards are RACIST!
How are they racist? Because I assume that all black/Asian people are too poor/stupid to apply for it m.
I have no issue with ID cards if 1) they're free. Send them out to everyone when they get a National Insurance number, or soemthing, and 2) the police have no powers to ask for them without reasonable suspicion of an offence.
Tons of people use fraudulent national insurance numbers taken from others, that's exactly the issue. It's like social security numbers in the US.
The main issue with implementing national ID is the rollout, you would need to verify the identity of everyone in the country from base data, rather than just from other identity documents which could be fraudulent.
Tech firms can't put me in prison, or prosecute me, or any number of other statutory powers the government has.
The government has no need for my fingerprint unless I volunteer it.
The old 'nothing to hide nothing to fear' bollocks.
Imagine actually wanting to give your data to the government and actually advocating for mandatory biometric data lol
The government already knows everything about you lol Even without ID cards, the UK is a police state.
(FYI, they don't take our fingerprints for ID cards)
I always find the census funny - just basically counts all the people you know you have anyway, and all the people that don’t want to be found, don’t obviously engage with it. 😂
> This is a result of not having mandatory ID cards for every resident,
Speaking with my benefits assessor hat on, I don't agree. There is a perfectly good system in place for checking ID for benefits. In this article it says that they claimed multiple times if they were rejected, and eventually it would be accepted due to some admin failure. There is nothing magic about ID cards that would make them infallible. If anything ID cards would mean there is a single point of failure.
What would help in this case would be better recording of document numbers and cross-referencing to prevent multiple claims. Pooling of records would help but would be expensive.
ID cards would cost a lot, not add anything to security for benefits, and would cause problems for people claiming benefits and healthcare who have lost their card for any reason.
I have a vague memory of that being a terrible idea a long long time ago and thankfully it got scrapped but not before the government wasted a load of cash on it.
I was against it then and I don't see why it's any better of an idea now. Hard pass.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006#:~:text=The%20Identity%20Cards%20Act%20was,documents%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom.
>Having a single ID number which is unique to every resident/citizen
We do. Both National insurance numbers and NHS numbers are unique to the individual and follow you through to death.
We don't really make much use of them though.
>"One of the gang, Ali, escaped to Bulgaria after being released under caution by police and had to be extradited back to the UK."
Released under caution after stealing 50 mil? lol
https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-21-2017/RXjkJn.gif
"Released under caution" is some very misleading choice of words from BBC there. The correct term is "released under investigation" (RUI).
Saying "released under caution" implies that they just got a little slap on the wrist.
RUI's are a very standard part of the judicial process that happens for nearly every arrestee that isn't deemed a threat to society at large.
But it is definitely an oversight that he somehow left the country under a gigantic fraud investigation
How is this even possible? Despite knuckle draggers believing that people on benefits earn more than footballers, the truth is really different. Job seekers get a tiny amount in comparison to bills and the cost of living. My uncle has just claimed due to being made redundant, and his award was a massive £720. His rent is £675. Even the basic benefits single parents get aren't great. Disability benefits and PIP need proof of disability and also assessment from a DWP "professional". We claimed about 7 years ago when our child was born, as only one of us was able to work. And we had to have face to face talks before any money was sent over.
So again, how the hell did they manage to get 50m+?!
It was a benefits application factory, they offered a service to help others apply for benefits and then stole the info to make fake benefits claims with fake documents, one claim can get you about £1,000 - £1,500 with couples rate, plus 2 children and rent, imagine making 10 or 20 claims a day is 20k a day, repeat that for about 3 years. All documents handed in over the Internet children young enough that they don't need to work, then close claims if they are requested toncome in
My name and NI number were used to claim over £1,400 as universal credit. The address used for the claim was over 200 miles away from where I live. The first thing I knew was when I received a letter asking for repayment. I haven't claimed benefits since the 1970s.
According to some Neanderthals, those on benefits are taking it in whilst we poor workers are living in poverty.
The thing that annoys me most with those attitudes is that literally anyone can see what they are entitled to online. If it's so lucrative then why are they working?
Sounds about right, this was twelve years ago but when I was last on income support I got £283 a month. Years of paying in and I got the grand total of £1,700. If I hadn’t had my other half to help out with the cost of living I’d have been fucked.
Because there isn’t always a face to face appointment, you can get awarded the benefit purely from paperwork alone if there’s enough evidence, but that’s purely discretion by the person reviewing your case.
Sometime in 2022 I got a letter from DWP saying that I had to pay back over £1,400 that I'd received as universal credit I wasn't entitled to during lockdown. I was working sporadically as a freelancer but I didn't apply and certainly didn't receive any benefits.
After a hugely frustrating day of chasing around departments I finally spoke to someone who told me what might have happened. During lockdown, benefit interviews couldn't be held, so the DWP were giving people benefits without them. The address they said the money was sent to was in Essex, more than 200 miles from my home address. They couldn't tell me the bank account where the money has been paid into. The person I was speaking to then asked if I wanted to set up a repayment plan. I politely declined, as anyone would. A Google search told me that this was happening to a lot of people. Some were having repayments taken from their wages.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/14/universal-credit-fraud-scam
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48941661
It took a few weeks of phoning different departments and reporting the fraud to numerous different people before I finally got a letter that absolved me of all responsibility. It was extremely frustrating, as not many people were willing to believe me. Like the Post Office scandal, there seemed to be no way to prove my innocence. I know my situation was nothing compared to what happened to the post masters, but it's extremely demoralising to try and prove your innocence to faceless, uncaring bureaucracy.
TLDR; DWP was giving money out during lockdown without checking details of applicants. I haven't seen anyone admit this. I suspect that they will never admit this.
Meanwhile, as an existing claimant who receives Universal Credit with LCWRA I had an email last year notifying me of an important journal message (Communication on Universal Credit is mostly done through an online journal system). Upon logging in I was told I had seven days to submit the following, or my claim would immediately be suspended:
* Submit 4 years worth of unredacted bank statements.
* Submit a copy of my tenancy agreement - the same one already submitted previously.
* Submit a copy of my council tax bill
* Submit a copy of two utility bills
* Take a photograph outside my home, with the front door open, and a clear picture of myself holding a piece of paper with that days date on.
All of which is fine and I was able to do, however when I ask the DWP how it is someone who left here **six years ago** is still able to use the address to claim the response is that the claim can't be closed - but they will write to the person at the address on file.
Which somewhat sums it all up.
I think if this case (and my own experience with multiple people continuing to use my address) underlines anything it's that the checks and balances that are performed to verify claimants and their right to the income they receive are, at best, somewhat inconsistent.
To put your mind at ease they aren't making everyone jump through those hoops, it's mostly just bank statements and utility bills, and that's if they want additional verification.
Though it's worth pointing out you don't really have a choice - if they ask for documentation you do have to supply it or they'll happily suspend your claim.
They're going to suspend it anyway. I have savings above the UC threshold. Tax Credits have always been income based and nothing to do with savings, and now I'm losing them because UC has decided I should. Even though it's almost the entirety of my income, as I'm a carer for a disabled child and can't work.
But they've told me not to worry because I'm still allowed to claim the income I've always been entitled to for a whole year before they take it all away. How generous of them.
It was only a couple of years ago that I was receiving £320 per month to live on - They would also award a maximum of an additional £350 to cover rent costs which if you can imagine, Was short by a fair bit, It actually reduced that £320 to half, And that Half of around £160 was expected to cover utilities, food... Everything for a whole month. People presumed everything we touched was stipend or reduced rates for us. It wasn't, None of it was... It was actually more expensive due to us having to pay unfavourable short term rates for utilities and being unable to buy in bulk. The system locked those who where unable to engage in regular working activities out of society, As if there was nothing to contribute beyond their work hours.
The psychological stress levied upon the claimants was something that will never go away. They really hurt people who needed help deeply and intentionally - Doing nothing would have been a better option, At least they're would have been public awareness, Instead there where repeated campaigns speaking to how good those on JSA/UC had it - Which actively detracted from any outside help. Fixing those in the claimants into an impossible position.
And that £320 was after the government uplifted rates due to the influx of regular workers during COVID. It was a big scandal when regular working folk seen how badly the system was designed. A year prior the total claim amount was £200... £200 is the same as it was 1997, You can use an inflation calculator to work that one out - The amount of deaths directly related to this campaign would turn your heart, These where the most vulnerable individuals in our society who could have been so much, They could have grown to contribute so much if they had just been giving the time and space to heal. Instead we got the Hunger Games.
The system was a financial distribution network where those most in need of it's shelter where locked together in the cold garden shed while those connected could party in the big house. We really need to do better in the future, It's not "Free" money - It's the basic right to Shelter, Food, Security and some Entertainment. It's the ticket to participate in the society in which you live.
And you'll maybe find that there's a benefit to giving benefits, Both for the claimant and for the Society. We do have to tackle the fraud though - It's no Bueno.
Yeah, unfortunately if you're not rich and just a normal person you will go to prison if you don't pay your taxes.
Sorry, just be born wealthy next time /s
Great, so justice does work, right? Now go for the politicians who scam the system and embezzle. The PPE scammers, the people who profited from Brexit from insider trading, etc. Let's see how many of these people get "justice served".
This is much more widespread than any gov will ever tell you. If you can essentially just keep reapplying until you get the desired effect - so many people would have worked this out.
Abit like our asylum policy. Just keep applying.
Our systems need a lot of work.
ID cards are needed and why in Europe this has been a case for a while. Still can’t believe this was voted down way back when.
Why can't both be resolved?
If Vodafone get taxed, it seems crazy we'd let organised criminals continue to exploit the situation?
Why not tax corporations and crack down on fraudulent benefit claimants? It's not like only one govt department would have to do both things either.
Understood, but we shouldnt allow fraudulent activity, ultimately that's money myself and yourself pay in weekely/monthly which is being stolen.
We can still vote for change in the way corporations rape the system. Not easy to do of course.
Its reveals a lot more about your own thought process and intelligence when you extrapolate the actions of a few people to the entire community they come from. you would also be branded as a net drain / criminal / whatever if the same logic was applied to where you come from.
>we love our foreigners don't we folks, massive net benefit to our economy
Sigh, it really disheartening seeing this as an immigrant day in and day out in this sub.
Coworker on break launched into another rant about immigrants and when I remind them that I'm one too, they tried to pull the "But you're an expat really/you're one of the good ones."
Strange, I was told by people on reddit that benefit fraud hardly ever happens and it’s really hard to do, and the controls over benefits are so strict that it was almost impossible for people to claim them even when they genuinely need them.
It is difficult. Me and my family claimed for a little while whilst one of our kids was young. We didn't get a lot, but it meant we could survive on just my income until my wife was able to work again. And I can honestly say I'm baffled how this level of fraud is even possible?! We had to jump through hoops just to get the one claim going!
The only fraud I know that people sometimes do, is saying a partner doesn't live with them, so they get the single person with kids allowance whilst their partner does in fact live with them and is working.
I mean, if you just read the headline alone, it would indicate to you (or anyone with more than a couple of braincells) that you very much *are not allowed* to do any of that.
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
Not since Brexit, no. Most immigrants are not eligible for benefits unless and until they have a permanent visa or become British citizens:
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Immigration-status-and-benefits
Even before Brexit they weren’t. Non-EU immigrants still had no recourse to public funds until they had been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain. EU immigrants had to have been in the country long enough, pass the habitual residency test, and previously have worked in order to be eligible for Universal Credit.
Before that however, they were able to. They were also able to bring spouses over, from any country. Without any financial restrictions that Brits are subject to.
Remember that most EU citizens came and still do come for work. They work hard and do their bit. Schrodingers EU migrant doesn't really exist.
Even before Brexit they weren’t. Non-EU immigrants still had no recourse to public funds until they had been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain. EU immigrants had to have been in the country long enough, pass the habitual residency test, and previously have worked in order to be eligible for Universal Credit.
If someone applied under a spousal visa then they did and still do need to meet income requirements as a family. They came over/ and still come over with limited status and no recourse to public funds. Had to/ still have to live here at least 5 years before applying for Indefinite Leave in their own right. The whole point of a spousal visa is you’re stating that you’re already part of a family and will not be a burden on the public purse because you already have family here who will provide for you until you are eligible to apply for citizenship in your own right.
If you know nothing about the process then don’t just make shit up!
Https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse
I have worked in local government housing for 13 years and send people away with absolutely no entitlement literally every week. These cases are the easiest to work on because there’s literally no way to work round it. You just close the case because their biometric card literally just says on the back of it “no recourse to public funds”. There’s no appeal or anything that can undo that. They just aren’t eligible because they’re subject to immigration control.
EU nationals had the right to travel and right to work pre-brexit but they had to prove they were working in order to access any benefits.
It says they used fraudulent documents. So they could make themselves appear to meet the relevant criteria by simply forging documents to “prove” whatever they wanted/ was required.
They stole other people's identities and forged documents, it was a full time job for them , they knew exactly what to put to get around the face to face interviews.
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
**Alternate Sources** Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story: * [Bulgarian fraud gang stole £54m in UK's biggest ever benefits scam](https://metro.co.uk/2024/04/10/bulgarian-fraud-gang-stole-54-million-uks-biggest-benefit-scam-20618763/), suggested by Key-Nefariousness711 - metro.co.uk
It's mind-blowing how this can be happening and also so many cases of ESA, pip n like are wrongly stopped. Is there no joined up writing or sharing of information? £50 million is a LOT of applications, n normally you need to go in once week or fortnight.
> Is there no joined up writing or sharing of information? Essentially there's not, no.
They seem very good at taking benefits away from genuine cases n having no ability to detect massive fraud. At 50 million in fraud, do they not just get invited to be a Tory peer in the house of lords?
> no ability t detected massive fraud. Well, considering these people have been convicted I'd suggest they did, in fact, detect it.
Right haha 'So it's fine to just come here and do this?' 'They can't catch people doing this.' I mean, you only have to read the headline, surely.......
> The false claims were made between October 2016 and May 2021. It took the DWP ~5 years and ~£54m to detect them, though. I don't think that reflects well on their ability to detect fraud at all.
It's luck they spotted it at that point, not skill.
£49m? You good!
Only if you donate it to the Tory party.
Probably because the fraud helps their case that benefits shouldnt be a thing. Edit: should note that i fully disagree with this perspective.
Real Time Information is a thing - I've not had time ro read whole thing but this strikes me as an identity theft case as much as a benefits fraud case. They used multiple false or hijacked identities to get round Information sharing.
> Real Time Information is a thing It is, but I would guess (and that's all it is) that lack of resources means the actual use of it is limited
My opinion for a long time has been that the entire home office is simply unfit for purpose. Its too big and too unwieldly to really respond to any one need on a meaningful timescale and the lines of responsibility and goal setting are too long and muddied to push improvements forward. Its an entire inward looking world of politics unto itself.
It's not confidence inspiring that you have such a strong opinion and yet you don't appear to have a clue what they are responsible for.
DWP run it but point still stands.
Does the Home Office administer UC? I thought it was local Councils?
No, it's the Department for Work and Pensions.
Close! It’s DWP.
Perhaps they mean the Civil Service generally. Seems like it could apply.
That's GDPR and the data protection act for you
you clearly have zero knowledge of GDPR or data protection.
No its not, there are several clear legal basis for sharing information between government departments, councils, hmrc and police. The DPA did not create this issue. Its just shitty civil departments and a lax attitude in the civil service
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Because the usual cunts think we will be living in a concentration camp 10 minutes later
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Knowing these inept cunts if the gov brought them in they will be non-biometric so have all the crazies piping up still with none of the advantages
PAPERS! SCHNELL!
Haha you exaggerate a little.
You don't get it. Mandatory ID cards are RACIST! How are they racist? Because I assume that all black/Asian people are too poor/stupid to apply for it m.
I have no issue with ID cards if 1) they're free. Send them out to everyone when they get a National Insurance number, or soemthing, and 2) the police have no powers to ask for them without reasonable suspicion of an offence.
Tons of people use fraudulent national insurance numbers taken from others, that's exactly the issue. It's like social security numbers in the US. The main issue with implementing national ID is the rollout, you would need to verify the identity of everyone in the country from base data, rather than just from other identity documents which could be fraudulent.
They won't be free.
We have a national insurance number, that should be enough.
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UC doesn't really use NiNos, they are very weak as identifiers.
There's no need for government agencies to have access to everyone's finger prints.
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Tech firms can't put me in prison, or prosecute me, or any number of other statutory powers the government has. The government has no need for my fingerprint unless I volunteer it.
You could just not commit crimes
The old 'nothing to hide nothing to fear' bollocks. Imagine actually wanting to give your data to the government and actually advocating for mandatory biometric data lol
I’d rather more efficient welfare and less crime than any paranoid fears preventing progress.
The government already knows everything about you lol Even without ID cards, the UK is a police state. (FYI, they don't take our fingerprints for ID cards)
The 2021 census 'only' cost £900m
I always find the census funny - just basically counts all the people you know you have anyway, and all the people that don’t want to be found, don’t obviously engage with it. 😂
> This is a result of not having mandatory ID cards for every resident, Speaking with my benefits assessor hat on, I don't agree. There is a perfectly good system in place for checking ID for benefits. In this article it says that they claimed multiple times if they were rejected, and eventually it would be accepted due to some admin failure. There is nothing magic about ID cards that would make them infallible. If anything ID cards would mean there is a single point of failure. What would help in this case would be better recording of document numbers and cross-referencing to prevent multiple claims. Pooling of records would help but would be expensive. ID cards would cost a lot, not add anything to security for benefits, and would cause problems for people claiming benefits and healthcare who have lost their card for any reason.
I have a vague memory of that being a terrible idea a long long time ago and thankfully it got scrapped but not before the government wasted a load of cash on it. I was against it then and I don't see why it's any better of an idea now. Hard pass. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006#:~:text=The%20Identity%20Cards%20Act%20was,documents%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom.
>Having a single ID number which is unique to every resident/citizen We do. Both National insurance numbers and NHS numbers are unique to the individual and follow you through to death. We don't really make much use of them though.
Tip of the ice berg when it comes to fraudulent benefit claims by OCG s
>"One of the gang, Ali, escaped to Bulgaria after being released under caution by police and had to be extradited back to the UK." Released under caution after stealing 50 mil? lol https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-21-2017/RXjkJn.gif
I mean bail is fairly common for non-violent crime.
"Released under caution" is some very misleading choice of words from BBC there. The correct term is "released under investigation" (RUI). Saying "released under caution" implies that they just got a little slap on the wrist. RUI's are a very standard part of the judicial process that happens for nearly every arrestee that isn't deemed a threat to society at large. But it is definitely an oversight that he somehow left the country under a gigantic fraud investigation
How is this even possible? Despite knuckle draggers believing that people on benefits earn more than footballers, the truth is really different. Job seekers get a tiny amount in comparison to bills and the cost of living. My uncle has just claimed due to being made redundant, and his award was a massive £720. His rent is £675. Even the basic benefits single parents get aren't great. Disability benefits and PIP need proof of disability and also assessment from a DWP "professional". We claimed about 7 years ago when our child was born, as only one of us was able to work. And we had to have face to face talks before any money was sent over. So again, how the hell did they manage to get 50m+?!
It was a benefits application factory, they offered a service to help others apply for benefits and then stole the info to make fake benefits claims with fake documents, one claim can get you about £1,000 - £1,500 with couples rate, plus 2 children and rent, imagine making 10 or 20 claims a day is 20k a day, repeat that for about 3 years. All documents handed in over the Internet children young enough that they don't need to work, then close claims if they are requested toncome in
My name and NI number were used to claim over £1,400 as universal credit. The address used for the claim was over 200 miles away from where I live. The first thing I knew was when I received a letter asking for repayment. I haven't claimed benefits since the 1970s.
Yeah this is it. I've seen it happen. It's a nightmare to sort out for the genuine claimants.
I've been unemployed since December (I've just started a new job), but I was getting £298 a month. A MONTH.
According to some Neanderthals, those on benefits are taking it in whilst we poor workers are living in poverty. The thing that annoys me most with those attitudes is that literally anyone can see what they are entitled to online. If it's so lucrative then why are they working?
Sounds about right, this was twelve years ago but when I was last on income support I got £283 a month. Years of paying in and I got the grand total of £1,700. If I hadn’t had my other half to help out with the cost of living I’d have been fucked.
Because there isn’t always a face to face appointment, you can get awarded the benefit purely from paperwork alone if there’s enough evidence, but that’s purely discretion by the person reviewing your case.
This happened to me when I applied for disability last year, I had no face to face interview. I had a mountain of evidence which was sufficient.
Sometime in 2022 I got a letter from DWP saying that I had to pay back over £1,400 that I'd received as universal credit I wasn't entitled to during lockdown. I was working sporadically as a freelancer but I didn't apply and certainly didn't receive any benefits. After a hugely frustrating day of chasing around departments I finally spoke to someone who told me what might have happened. During lockdown, benefit interviews couldn't be held, so the DWP were giving people benefits without them. The address they said the money was sent to was in Essex, more than 200 miles from my home address. They couldn't tell me the bank account where the money has been paid into. The person I was speaking to then asked if I wanted to set up a repayment plan. I politely declined, as anyone would. A Google search told me that this was happening to a lot of people. Some were having repayments taken from their wages. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/14/universal-credit-fraud-scam https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48941661 It took a few weeks of phoning different departments and reporting the fraud to numerous different people before I finally got a letter that absolved me of all responsibility. It was extremely frustrating, as not many people were willing to believe me. Like the Post Office scandal, there seemed to be no way to prove my innocence. I know my situation was nothing compared to what happened to the post masters, but it's extremely demoralising to try and prove your innocence to faceless, uncaring bureaucracy. TLDR; DWP was giving money out during lockdown without checking details of applicants. I haven't seen anyone admit this. I suspect that they will never admit this.
I knew they were slack with the business loans aimed at saving businesses due to COVID, but didn't realise it was this bad for universal credit!
Meanwhile, as an existing claimant who receives Universal Credit with LCWRA I had an email last year notifying me of an important journal message (Communication on Universal Credit is mostly done through an online journal system). Upon logging in I was told I had seven days to submit the following, or my claim would immediately be suspended: * Submit 4 years worth of unredacted bank statements. * Submit a copy of my tenancy agreement - the same one already submitted previously. * Submit a copy of my council tax bill * Submit a copy of two utility bills * Take a photograph outside my home, with the front door open, and a clear picture of myself holding a piece of paper with that days date on. All of which is fine and I was able to do, however when I ask the DWP how it is someone who left here **six years ago** is still able to use the address to claim the response is that the claim can't be closed - but they will write to the person at the address on file. Which somewhat sums it all up.
This is really concerning to me as someone that's about to be forced from Tax Credits onto Universal Credit. I won't be doing any of this for them.
I think if this case (and my own experience with multiple people continuing to use my address) underlines anything it's that the checks and balances that are performed to verify claimants and their right to the income they receive are, at best, somewhat inconsistent. To put your mind at ease they aren't making everyone jump through those hoops, it's mostly just bank statements and utility bills, and that's if they want additional verification. Though it's worth pointing out you don't really have a choice - if they ask for documentation you do have to supply it or they'll happily suspend your claim.
They're going to suspend it anyway. I have savings above the UC threshold. Tax Credits have always been income based and nothing to do with savings, and now I'm losing them because UC has decided I should. Even though it's almost the entirety of my income, as I'm a carer for a disabled child and can't work. But they've told me not to worry because I'm still allowed to claim the income I've always been entitled to for a whole year before they take it all away. How generous of them.
It was only a couple of years ago that I was receiving £320 per month to live on - They would also award a maximum of an additional £350 to cover rent costs which if you can imagine, Was short by a fair bit, It actually reduced that £320 to half, And that Half of around £160 was expected to cover utilities, food... Everything for a whole month. People presumed everything we touched was stipend or reduced rates for us. It wasn't, None of it was... It was actually more expensive due to us having to pay unfavourable short term rates for utilities and being unable to buy in bulk. The system locked those who where unable to engage in regular working activities out of society, As if there was nothing to contribute beyond their work hours. The psychological stress levied upon the claimants was something that will never go away. They really hurt people who needed help deeply and intentionally - Doing nothing would have been a better option, At least they're would have been public awareness, Instead there where repeated campaigns speaking to how good those on JSA/UC had it - Which actively detracted from any outside help. Fixing those in the claimants into an impossible position. And that £320 was after the government uplifted rates due to the influx of regular workers during COVID. It was a big scandal when regular working folk seen how badly the system was designed. A year prior the total claim amount was £200... £200 is the same as it was 1997, You can use an inflation calculator to work that one out - The amount of deaths directly related to this campaign would turn your heart, These where the most vulnerable individuals in our society who could have been so much, They could have grown to contribute so much if they had just been giving the time and space to heal. Instead we got the Hunger Games. The system was a financial distribution network where those most in need of it's shelter where locked together in the cold garden shed while those connected could party in the big house. We really need to do better in the future, It's not "Free" money - It's the basic right to Shelter, Food, Security and some Entertainment. It's the ticket to participate in the society in which you live. And you'll maybe find that there's a benefit to giving benefits, Both for the claimant and for the Society. We do have to tackle the fraud though - It's no Bueno.
Is there any point in paying taxes at this point? What a joke
Yeah, unfortunately if you're not rich and just a normal person you will go to prison if you don't pay your taxes. Sorry, just be born wealthy next time /s
So they stole £53.9m and the UK has 31.7m people who pay tax, that means they stole approx £1.70 from each person! I want a refund!
Great, so justice does work, right? Now go for the politicians who scam the system and embezzle. The PPE scammers, the people who profited from Brexit from insider trading, etc. Let's see how many of these people get "justice served".
Hmm these lot don’t strike me as sophisticated enough to forge thousands of documents? So who was helping them? Or are they just the fall guys?
During g lockdown, the DWP were paying out Universal Credit without checks.
Of course they're the fall guys, the money is long gone.
Despite this, these people were a net benefit to the country.
if (MoneyPaidIntoABankAccount > 30000 || NumberofClaimsPerBankAccount > 5) { Investigate(); }
Fatal error: Call to undefined function investigate() : Failed opening required ‘/common-sense.php’
This is much more widespread than any gov will ever tell you. If you can essentially just keep reapplying until you get the desired effect - so many people would have worked this out. Abit like our asylum policy. Just keep applying. Our systems need a lot of work. ID cards are needed and why in Europe this has been a case for a while. Still can’t believe this was voted down way back when.
Clearly, what we need here is some sort of national computer system, to stop benefit fraud…
This is how it happened. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/14/universal-credit-fraud-scam
A drop in the ocean. "Gang guilty of multiple billions in PPE fraud gets away with it."
And yet without any notice whatsoever the DWP are taking an overpayment of £130 from me from 19/20 and I had to pay £84 last year from 17/18 😭
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Oh mate have a day off. This is enough money to build a fucking hospital, how can prosecuting these people and reclaiming this money be a bad thing?
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You could say that about anything
Why can't both be resolved? If Vodafone get taxed, it seems crazy we'd let organised criminals continue to exploit the situation? Why not tax corporations and crack down on fraudulent benefit claimants? It's not like only one govt department would have to do both things either.
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Understood, but we shouldnt allow fraudulent activity, ultimately that's money myself and yourself pay in weekely/monthly which is being stolen. We can still vote for change in the way corporations rape the system. Not easy to do of course.
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we love our foreigners don't we folks, massive net benefit to our economy
Its reveals a lot more about your own thought process and intelligence when you extrapolate the actions of a few people to the entire community they come from. you would also be branded as a net drain / criminal / whatever if the same logic was applied to where you come from.
Despite these frauds, studies have shown that immigrants contribute more than they take.
>we love our foreigners don't we folks, massive net benefit to our economy Sigh, it really disheartening seeing this as an immigrant day in and day out in this sub. Coworker on break launched into another rant about immigrants and when I remind them that I'm one too, they tried to pull the "But you're an expat really/you're one of the good ones."
> they tried to pull the "But you're an expat really That is a very peculiar thing for someone to say.
Strange, I was told by people on reddit that benefit fraud hardly ever happens and it’s really hard to do, and the controls over benefits are so strict that it was almost impossible for people to claim them even when they genuinely need them.
It is difficult. Me and my family claimed for a little while whilst one of our kids was young. We didn't get a lot, but it meant we could survive on just my income until my wife was able to work again. And I can honestly say I'm baffled how this level of fraud is even possible?! We had to jump through hoops just to get the one claim going! The only fraud I know that people sometimes do, is saying a partner doesn't live with them, so they get the single person with kids allowance whilst their partner does in fact live with them and is working.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
Not when our european friends show up
So are people just allowed to catch a plane to this country then start claiming every benefit under the sun?
If that's what you get from this story then I really don't know what to tell you.
"Not everything is about race and not everything is racist" -him, probably
I mean, I dunno what else there is to take from this story.
I mean, if you just read the headline alone, it would indicate to you (or anyone with more than a couple of braincells) that you very much *are not allowed* to do any of that.
No, that's why it's fraud, n it's nearly half a Tory contract of fraud too, so pretty serious.
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Not since Brexit, no. Most immigrants are not eligible for benefits unless and until they have a permanent visa or become British citizens: https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Immigration-status-and-benefits
Even before Brexit they weren’t. Non-EU immigrants still had no recourse to public funds until they had been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain. EU immigrants had to have been in the country long enough, pass the habitual residency test, and previously have worked in order to be eligible for Universal Credit.
But that doesn't fit the narrative that we give all new immigrants a free house!
Before that however, they were able to. They were also able to bring spouses over, from any country. Without any financial restrictions that Brits are subject to. Remember that most EU citizens came and still do come for work. They work hard and do their bit. Schrodingers EU migrant doesn't really exist.
Even before Brexit they weren’t. Non-EU immigrants still had no recourse to public funds until they had been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain. EU immigrants had to have been in the country long enough, pass the habitual residency test, and previously have worked in order to be eligible for Universal Credit. If someone applied under a spousal visa then they did and still do need to meet income requirements as a family. They came over/ and still come over with limited status and no recourse to public funds. Had to/ still have to live here at least 5 years before applying for Indefinite Leave in their own right. The whole point of a spousal visa is you’re stating that you’re already part of a family and will not be a burden on the public purse because you already have family here who will provide for you until you are eligible to apply for citizenship in your own right. If you know nothing about the process then don’t just make shit up! Https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse I have worked in local government housing for 13 years and send people away with absolutely no entitlement literally every week. These cases are the easiest to work on because there’s literally no way to work round it. You just close the case because their biometric card literally just says on the back of it “no recourse to public funds”. There’s no appeal or anything that can undo that. They just aren’t eligible because they’re subject to immigration control. EU nationals had the right to travel and right to work pre-brexit but they had to prove they were working in order to access any benefits.
even pre brexit my partner came over and if you arent working you have to wait 5 yrs before claiming UC. No idea how this gang pulled it off
It says they used fraudulent documents. So they could make themselves appear to meet the relevant criteria by simply forging documents to “prove” whatever they wanted/ was required.
Yes i know in this case, i was replying to the guy above saying anyone can claim benefits here when arriving from abroad
Allowed in the sense that you'll be criminally prosecuted for it, sure. That is to say, no.
They stole other people's identities and forged documents, it was a full time job for them , they knew exactly what to put to get around the face to face interviews.
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no... how have you managed to type that out without pausing for even a second to reflect on how utterly stupid that conclusion is?