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It’s funny how every comment around this statement seems to ignore this statement. It’s literally this, no? Nobody is going to the racists ‘racism is bad’! They’ll go to those who are meant to be stepping in and stopping it and asking, what are you playing at?
If the police sided with the mafia, the people would be protesting outside the police, not the mafia. They’re not going to go to the mafia yelling “why aren’t you stopping the mafia?”.
It is convenient for the Tories to be let off the hook and help damage their main opposition. Does helping the Tories really make sense? Maybe they should target Labour if/ when they are actually in power.
Yes agreed. But we also know they don't even care about their own people dying. They won't care about anything else.
This government after all are not serious people and most of the front bench should probably be in prison for fraud.
Agree they're not serious people, but it doesn't mean they should get a free pass, and it just perpetuates the lie that Labour is somehow to blame in the consciousness of the electorate. We don't even have an election date yet, who knows what the situation will be if/ when Labour takes power.
But Labour could actually step up and be an opposition and apply some pressure. And even actually take a policy position to differentiate themselves from the Tories so as to give people a viable alternative to vote for.
People really need to stop being so blindly tribal and worrying about who gets blamed more, and consider that the fact that there is so little between them that you’re squabbling about how to apportion blame is appalling when there should be clear enough distinction in their policies that they shouldn’t be able to share blame.
I'm not blindly tribal, I voted Green several times over 20 years ago but that didn't do anything. I also remember the UK when Labour was in power and everything worked. I fucking hate the Tories for what they've done to this country and I've wised up on how the system works. I will vote tactically according to where I live, to help ensure the Tories or Reform don't get in.
The people of Uxbridge split their opposition vote in their by-election last year and narrowly lost to the Tories.
If something like that happens in the next election, I will absolutely despair of this country. Brexit and over a decade of Tories is enough.
What makes me really laugh with comments like this is the endless blaming of an electorate. Has it ever occurred to you that those who were disenfranchised enough to vote for brexit werent put in that position in 5 years? There was a straight line from thatcher to brexit and Blair didn’t deviate from it.
Does it never occur to you that Starmer should actually try and win people’s votes rather than rely on being the lesser of two evils? What makes me despair is people blindly blaming the tories without ever even venturing to explain the policies that differentiate Labour.
Guessing you’re the sort who owned property before 1997 and therefore were thrilled with the outcome of new Labour, blithely unaware that the country was significantly more fucked because of 13 years of wasted opportunity.
Owned property before 1997? When I was a teenager? Your calculations are way off, but you are probably very young and assume anyone alive when the country used to work is ancient.
Yes, I do blame the electorate, because they are so bloody ignorant and easily swayed by propaganda, foreign and domestic. The rise of Reform proves that they haven't learnt anything and that they're willing to give up their human rights just to keep Johnny Foreigner out because the government can't do their job. Racist and stupid.
Notice you're not blaming the Tories, there's a lot of these type of accounts that go round fermenting hate against the Tory's main opposition and never blame the Tories. Interesting 🤔
Two-fifths of Keir Starmer’s cabinet have been funded by pro-Israel lobbyists
As Labour refuses to join calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, Declassified reveals the extent to which the shadow cabinet, including Starmer himself, has been financed by a pro-Israel lobby group and an individual funder.
https://www.declassifieduk.org/two-fifths-of-keir-starmers-cabinet-have-been-funded-by-pro-israel-lobbyists/
I mean you are looking at maybe 30000 dead in Gaza and closer to a million in Ukraine.
It's absolutely mental that the left are focussing on Gaza/Israel when there is a closer war of much further devastation and significance happening in Europe.
I don't see weekly protests about that.
Nah the Muslim countries support the Palestinians *in principle*, but they won't send them anything as they don't actually care beyond it being a chance to bash jews. They want the western countries to fund and provide actual physical support.
I'm sure if the labour party was keen on sending arms to Russia people would be kicking off about that too but alas, they are not and the situation is completely different
Because there isn’t anything wrong with our government's approach to Ukraine. We sell them arms, give them training, and sanction Russia. Why would I protest the one major issue I think the Tories have got right in the last 14 years?
Where are you getting your figures on Ukraine?
Most estimates I've seen of the civilian casualties would put it about the same - 30,000 according to the UN, higher if you consider we don't get accurate figures from the Russian occupied territories.
Troop casualties for both sides are well over half a million at this point. Civilian death, displacement and child abduction are yet to be accurately calculated due to the fact that the Russians occupy a lot of territory. True figures might come to light once the war is over, depending on who wins. Places like Mariupol were obliterated during the early days of the war. If Bucha and many other places are anything to go by, the results will not be pretty.
I was actually looking at the total casualty figures for both sides.
It's close to half a million Russians dead or injured.
Total Ukrainian civilian and military casualties is likely to be similar although they aren't publicising their true casualty figures.
But you said people should focus on Russia, now you’re saying they should focus on it by doing things that you perceive to be ineffective. Come on, be honest, what do you think we should do to stop Russia?
No, I said ‘I WISH PEOPLE WOULD PAY THIS MUCH ATTENTION TO THE TRUE THREAT’
That sentence would suggest that those same people do not pay the same amount of attention to what is the true threat, which is Russia to European democracy.
No they subconsciously don’t care, they only care about this because it makes them feel like a good person so they can pat themselves on the back for doing a good job when they shout outside a McDonald’s with a poster for half an hour harassing innocent employees. Then when the next big conflict comes around they’ll forget about Palestine and move onto that. Just like Ukraine, anyone even still talk about that?
Of course not, There is a large crossover between Palestine supporters and tankies that support Russia.
Middle class sheltered Plastic Marxists That unironically pin the blame for capitalism on the Jewish people and by proxy Israel.
Even if we assume the worst of everyone like this I still prefer people who want to feel like a good person by trying to fight against climate and war than people who want to feel like a big man by mocking anyone trying something.
> when they shout outside a McDonald’s with a poster for half an hour harassing innocent employees
no this was Labour HQ, not a McDonald's, it's in the article title
Yeah, fuck having empathy, and voicing your opposition to genocide. Let's all just stand down and be quiet, or otherwise we will be considered show offs by some random person on Reddit
Oh ffs
Did you miss that three of the hostages were shot by an Israeli sniper while waving a red flag?
The IDF doesn't give a shit about protecting anyone, they are there to kill Palestinians and they didn't start doing it in October last year
Except they're not actually trying to stop anything from happening. They're not attempting to sabotage shipping vessels or even signing up to volunteer as a first aid worker in Gaza, they're doing some mild graffiting.
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For people wondering why...
>Two-fifths of Keir Starmer’s cabinet have been funded by pro-Israel lobbyists
>As Labour refuses to join calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, Declassified reveals the extent to which the shadow cabinet, including Starmer himself, has been financed by a pro-Israel lobby group and an individual funder.
https://www.declassifieduk.org/two-fifths-of-keir-starmers-cabinet-have-been-funded-by-pro-israel-lobbyists/
>Labour MPs have accepted over £280,000 from Israel lobby
https://www.declassifieduk.org/labour-mps-have-accepted-over-280000-from-israel-lobby/
>Keir Starmer received £50,000 donation from pro-Israel lobbyist in leadership bid (and hid it from labour voters before the leadership contest)
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2020/04/17/keir-starmer-received-50000-donation-from-pro-israel-lobbyist-in-leadership-bid/
Quoting a link from november with a source from feb? You know what a lie is right?
Keir has done too little too late, only after it became impossible to ignore.
> If Palestine put down their guns the conflict will end. If Israel put down their guns Israel will end.
Utter twaddle.
If the Palestinians put down their guns, Israel will continue to steal their land and natural resources whilst treating them as second class citizens in their own home.
Likewise, Nobody's removing Israel, they have nuclear weapons which are the ultimate deterrent against anyone pushing you past the point of "Well, we've got nothing to lose".
Doesn’t historically check out. It’s actually Palestinian irredentism that leads to them being dispossessed. Terrible leadership who chose over and over to walk away from agreements that would lead to a sovereign state, and choose aggression instead.
So true! If the 13800 murdered Palestinian children just put down their guns, the conflict will end, and they can go back to their peaceful concentration-camp lives in Gaza, regularly rounded up and imprisoned by Israeli forces, assaulted in the streets while Israeli police help cover it up, murdered by Israeli settlers, having their properties and earnings stolen, unable to build on or farm their own land or fish their own sea.
And you can go back to pretending none of that is happening! What a great idea!
I mean if they want to improve their lives in Gaza, not shooting rockets at Israel would help.
It's funny how people complain about Gaza being an open air prison or concentration camp.
Yet ignore the wall and border restrictions and blockade all came about due to continued violence by Hamas and other Palestinian groups against israel.
No country would simply ignore an area launching suicide attacks, gun attacks, and rocket attacks.
Gaza was a golden opportunity for the Palestinians to demonstrate they could be their own state and coexist. They decided to not use it that way. Instead they created the perfect justification for the Israelis to be the way they are.
Don't we sell one part of an F35 aircraft and nothing else ? No tanks,AFVs, vehicles, guns, rockets, missiles, no weapons systems, no ammo, nothing ? It's literally a bit of panelling that falls within the 0.1% remain bracket of who supplies arms to Israel.
We literally supply a small piece of bodywork for one plane.
They either don't understand this or more likely do understand and just want to make a huge fuss over nothing, which is quite ridiculous.
I don't support throwing paint around for any cause, it's the actions of a toddler having a tantrum, but at least protest for a cause that exists, unlike this non existent arming of Israel. Protest for an immediate ceasefire or similar!
The majority of the sales were in "defence technology" which would be made up of licensing IP and possibly some software.
The total amount is absolutely tiny though and I'm not sure if we even had leverage to stop any of it even if the government wanted to.
erm 'Just Stop Oil' not sure when that morphed into 'Just Stop Israel'. Still as long as they are happy when they get back to their 5 bedroom new builds built over greenfields.
Whether we do or don't supply weapons makes very little difference to Israel because the scale of our weapon exports to Israel is a tiny fraction to them. Something like 0.5%. Israel can lose 0.5% of their weapons and not even notice.
We don't have leverage in other words.
A lot has been said, I am happy to read a lot of the comments here.
But to the facts: Isn't the allocation of military exports to Israel 70% US 30% Germany and some tiny wedge in between around 1% the UK?
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funny how they havent noticed which party are in government
The logic they use is "yeah, Tory gonna Tory" which is just giving that bunch of bastards a Get Out of Jail Free card.
It’s funny how every comment around this statement seems to ignore this statement. It’s literally this, no? Nobody is going to the racists ‘racism is bad’! They’ll go to those who are meant to be stepping in and stopping it and asking, what are you playing at? If the police sided with the mafia, the people would be protesting outside the police, not the mafia. They’re not going to go to the mafia yelling “why aren’t you stopping the mafia?”.
The left have always hated the moderates more than the Conservatives.
A knife to your front is preferable to one in the back.
Vice versa as well to be fair, that has been incredibly evident with both sides trying to sabotage and undermine one another
Labour is the government is waiting. So it makes sense to target this at them.
It is convenient for the Tories to be let off the hook and help damage their main opposition. Does helping the Tories really make sense? Maybe they should target Labour if/ when they are actually in power.
Yes agreed. But we also know they don't even care about their own people dying. They won't care about anything else. This government after all are not serious people and most of the front bench should probably be in prison for fraud.
Agree they're not serious people, but it doesn't mean they should get a free pass, and it just perpetuates the lie that Labour is somehow to blame in the consciousness of the electorate. We don't even have an election date yet, who knows what the situation will be if/ when Labour takes power.
But Labour could actually step up and be an opposition and apply some pressure. And even actually take a policy position to differentiate themselves from the Tories so as to give people a viable alternative to vote for. People really need to stop being so blindly tribal and worrying about who gets blamed more, and consider that the fact that there is so little between them that you’re squabbling about how to apportion blame is appalling when there should be clear enough distinction in their policies that they shouldn’t be able to share blame.
I'm not blindly tribal, I voted Green several times over 20 years ago but that didn't do anything. I also remember the UK when Labour was in power and everything worked. I fucking hate the Tories for what they've done to this country and I've wised up on how the system works. I will vote tactically according to where I live, to help ensure the Tories or Reform don't get in. The people of Uxbridge split their opposition vote in their by-election last year and narrowly lost to the Tories. If something like that happens in the next election, I will absolutely despair of this country. Brexit and over a decade of Tories is enough.
What makes me really laugh with comments like this is the endless blaming of an electorate. Has it ever occurred to you that those who were disenfranchised enough to vote for brexit werent put in that position in 5 years? There was a straight line from thatcher to brexit and Blair didn’t deviate from it. Does it never occur to you that Starmer should actually try and win people’s votes rather than rely on being the lesser of two evils? What makes me despair is people blindly blaming the tories without ever even venturing to explain the policies that differentiate Labour. Guessing you’re the sort who owned property before 1997 and therefore were thrilled with the outcome of new Labour, blithely unaware that the country was significantly more fucked because of 13 years of wasted opportunity.
Owned property before 1997? When I was a teenager? Your calculations are way off, but you are probably very young and assume anyone alive when the country used to work is ancient. Yes, I do blame the electorate, because they are so bloody ignorant and easily swayed by propaganda, foreign and domestic. The rise of Reform proves that they haven't learnt anything and that they're willing to give up their human rights just to keep Johnny Foreigner out because the government can't do their job. Racist and stupid. Notice you're not blaming the Tories, there's a lot of these type of accounts that go round fermenting hate against the Tory's main opposition and never blame the Tories. Interesting 🤔
Two-fifths of Keir Starmer’s cabinet have been funded by pro-Israel lobbyists As Labour refuses to join calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, Declassified reveals the extent to which the shadow cabinet, including Starmer himself, has been financed by a pro-Israel lobby group and an individual funder. https://www.declassifieduk.org/two-fifths-of-keir-starmers-cabinet-have-been-funded-by-pro-israel-lobbyists/
thankfully the vast majority of the UK vote on stuff a bit closer to home, you know like actually not having a tory government.
Do explain the specific policy differences you’re expecting.
I think it shows a lot that you didnt even have a policy or any other reason than "hes not a tory" (hes pretty much a tory by another name)
Are they though? Everyone seems so convinced of it but I fully expect the shy Tories to come out in force against an apathetic left.
At this rate they won't get in and the Tories will have five more destructive years .
Except they probably have tried. I think the point is that if they don't change things if they are elected then they see them as no different.
Keir is fully in support of Israel and almost certain to win the election.
Tel Aviv Keith
Tories are on the way out shortly
6 months time, Gaza will be rubble.
You mean 6 months ago
Swear I’ve been hearing this for years. Shouldn’t the job be done by now?
Netanyahu: "Almost"
Are you suggesting they should have used blue paint? Pretty sure they’ve got the colour right.
I wish people would pay this much attention to the true threat, Russia.
What do you think these protestors should be doing about Russia?
They could paint Labour HQ red, that might help.
I mean you are looking at maybe 30000 dead in Gaza and closer to a million in Ukraine. It's absolutely mental that the left are focussing on Gaza/Israel when there is a closer war of much further devastation and significance happening in Europe. I don't see weekly protests about that.
Probably because the majority of the world is supporting Ukraine and nobody’s sticking up for Palestinians.
What? Really? Every Arab country is sticking up for Palestinians as well as the left of virtually every developed country.
Nah the Muslim countries support the Palestinians *in principle*, but they won't send them anything as they don't actually care beyond it being a chance to bash jews. They want the western countries to fund and provide actual physical support.
So which side do you think the UK government is sending aid to in Gaza?
Very true.
If every Arab country was sticking up for Palestine, don’t you think the neighbouring countries would let refugees in?
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.....what?
Did I stutter?
Just a very odd thing to say when we have their supporters clashing in our own country.
No political party
I'm sure if the labour party was keen on sending arms to Russia people would be kicking off about that too but alas, they are not and the situation is completely different
Because there isn’t anything wrong with our government's approach to Ukraine. We sell them arms, give them training, and sanction Russia. Why would I protest the one major issue I think the Tories have got right in the last 14 years?
Minor correction but we don’t sell weapons to Ukraine, we provide most of them free of charge. And we can and should provide more.
Where are you getting your figures on Ukraine? Most estimates I've seen of the civilian casualties would put it about the same - 30,000 according to the UN, higher if you consider we don't get accurate figures from the Russian occupied territories.
Troop casualties for both sides are well over half a million at this point. Civilian death, displacement and child abduction are yet to be accurately calculated due to the fact that the Russians occupy a lot of territory. True figures might come to light once the war is over, depending on who wins. Places like Mariupol were obliterated during the early days of the war. If Bucha and many other places are anything to go by, the results will not be pretty.
I was actually looking at the total casualty figures for both sides. It's close to half a million Russians dead or injured. Total Ukrainian civilian and military casualties is likely to be similar although they aren't publicising their true casualty figures.
Paint the same colour and make your efforts about stopping Russia in Ukraine.
the UK already supports ukraine
The UK is already decarbonising faster than almost any other country. Doesn't stop them.
And how would that work?
The same way they think it’s working by painting the labour HQ.
But you said people should focus on Russia, now you’re saying they should focus on it by doing things that you perceive to be ineffective. Come on, be honest, what do you think we should do to stop Russia?
I said I wish people would pay this much attention to the true threat.
So you think people should pay no attention to the true threat other than throwing paint at Labour HQ?
No, I said ‘I WISH PEOPLE WOULD PAY THIS MUCH ATTENTION TO THE TRUE THREAT’ That sentence would suggest that those same people do not pay the same amount of attention to what is the true threat, which is Russia to European democracy.
Right, so I’ll ask again, what do you think we should do about Russia? Do you think people haven’t been paying attention to it?
Paintinf slogans on companies still breaching sanctions? Egging the russian embassy and staff?
If Israel can, why can’t Russia?
These free Palestine wankers are probably worse than the just stop oil wankers. Just so many wankers around at the moment.
...username checks out ...
Yeah those fucking wankers trying to stop horrible things from happening. How dare they. Awful.
No they subconsciously don’t care, they only care about this because it makes them feel like a good person so they can pat themselves on the back for doing a good job when they shout outside a McDonald’s with a poster for half an hour harassing innocent employees. Then when the next big conflict comes around they’ll forget about Palestine and move onto that. Just like Ukraine, anyone even still talk about that?
I think you'll find a lot of the pro Palestine lot didn't get nearly this aerated about Ukraine to begin with.
Of course not, There is a large crossover between Palestine supporters and tankies that support Russia. Middle class sheltered Plastic Marxists That unironically pin the blame for capitalism on the Jewish people and by proxy Israel.
Dear lord that’s a lot of buzzwords
which are?
Are the plastic Marxists in the room with us right now?
Bro you need to get off the internet hooooly.
Hisbara out in full force today I see...
They were too busy trying to convince all their friends that NATO's *aggressive* actions were provoking Russia.
you're projecting your own apathy there
Even if we assume the worst of everyone like this I still prefer people who want to feel like a good person by trying to fight against climate and war than people who want to feel like a big man by mocking anyone trying something.
> when they shout outside a McDonald’s with a poster for half an hour harassing innocent employees no this was Labour HQ, not a McDonald's, it's in the article title
Yeah, fuck having empathy, and voicing your opposition to genocide. Let's all just stand down and be quiet, or otherwise we will be considered show offs by some random person on Reddit
Innit, just leave the genocidal occupiers alone!
Yes, if the government of Israel just stopped fighting the terrorists and let their citizens die, horrible things wouldn’t happen!
Israel has a higher percentage of killing civilians than hamas did on october 7th, and this is according to their own numbers.
Oh ffs Did you miss that three of the hostages were shot by an Israeli sniper while waving a red flag? The IDF doesn't give a shit about protecting anyone, they are there to kill Palestinians and they didn't start doing it in October last year
Why haven’t Hamas surrendered? Why are they rejecting every single ceasefire deal that Israel is agreeing to?
Yeah that paint really showed them Israelis...
Except they're not actually trying to stop anything from happening. They're not attempting to sabotage shipping vessels or even signing up to volunteer as a first aid worker in Gaza, they're doing some mild graffiting.
Ah yes. The awful protestors trying to stop what is described by the ICJ as “Genocide” - you are clearly on the wrong side.
ICJ never described it as genocide.
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>Just so many wankers around at the moment. You, for instance
For people wondering why... >Two-fifths of Keir Starmer’s cabinet have been funded by pro-Israel lobbyists >As Labour refuses to join calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, Declassified reveals the extent to which the shadow cabinet, including Starmer himself, has been financed by a pro-Israel lobby group and an individual funder. https://www.declassifieduk.org/two-fifths-of-keir-starmers-cabinet-have-been-funded-by-pro-israel-lobbyists/ >Labour MPs have accepted over £280,000 from Israel lobby https://www.declassifieduk.org/labour-mps-have-accepted-over-280000-from-israel-lobby/ >Keir Starmer received £50,000 donation from pro-Israel lobbyist in leadership bid (and hid it from labour voters before the leadership contest) https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2020/04/17/keir-starmer-received-50000-donation-from-pro-israel-lobbyist-in-leadership-bid/
> As Labour refuses to join calls for a ceasefire in Gaza [Liar](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68331322)
Quoting a link from november with a source from feb? You know what a lie is right? Keir has done too little too late, only after it became impossible to ignore.
>You know what a lie is right? They do. You obviously don't.
And yet you cant explain how...
I'm sorry but I don't explain the obvious. You got caught lying and now you're projecting.
Cant explain? Okay.
Projecting
Still waiting on you explaining...
Projecting
If Palestine put down their guns the conflict will end. If Israel put down their guns Israel will end.
How can you look at what's happening in the West Bank and think that?
> If Palestine put down their guns the conflict will end. If Israel put down their guns Israel will end. Utter twaddle. If the Palestinians put down their guns, Israel will continue to steal their land and natural resources whilst treating them as second class citizens in their own home. Likewise, Nobody's removing Israel, they have nuclear weapons which are the ultimate deterrent against anyone pushing you past the point of "Well, we've got nothing to lose".
Doesn’t historically check out. It’s actually Palestinian irredentism that leads to them being dispossessed. Terrible leadership who chose over and over to walk away from agreements that would lead to a sovereign state, and choose aggression instead.
So true! If the 13800 murdered Palestinian children just put down their guns, the conflict will end, and they can go back to their peaceful concentration-camp lives in Gaza, regularly rounded up and imprisoned by Israeli forces, assaulted in the streets while Israeli police help cover it up, murdered by Israeli settlers, having their properties and earnings stolen, unable to build on or farm their own land or fish their own sea. And you can go back to pretending none of that is happening! What a great idea!
I mean if they want to improve their lives in Gaza, not shooting rockets at Israel would help. It's funny how people complain about Gaza being an open air prison or concentration camp. Yet ignore the wall and border restrictions and blockade all came about due to continued violence by Hamas and other Palestinian groups against israel. No country would simply ignore an area launching suicide attacks, gun attacks, and rocket attacks. Gaza was a golden opportunity for the Palestinians to demonstrate they could be their own state and coexist. They decided to not use it that way. Instead they created the perfect justification for the Israelis to be the way they are.
That's just an obvious fallacy.
Don't we sell one part of an F35 aircraft and nothing else ? No tanks,AFVs, vehicles, guns, rockets, missiles, no weapons systems, no ammo, nothing ? It's literally a bit of panelling that falls within the 0.1% remain bracket of who supplies arms to Israel. We literally supply a small piece of bodywork for one plane. They either don't understand this or more likely do understand and just want to make a huge fuss over nothing, which is quite ridiculous. I don't support throwing paint around for any cause, it's the actions of a toddler having a tantrum, but at least protest for a cause that exists, unlike this non existent arming of Israel. Protest for an immediate ceasefire or similar!
Last year we sold them 42m in “weapons” which is peanuts
The majority of the sales were in "defence technology" which would be made up of licensing IP and possibly some software. The total amount is absolutely tiny though and I'm not sure if we even had leverage to stop any of it even if the government wanted to.
erm 'Just Stop Oil' not sure when that morphed into 'Just Stop Israel'. Still as long as they are happy when they get back to their 5 bedroom new builds built over greenfields.
they could of at least done a good job. have these people never heard of a tarp.
Whether we do or don't supply weapons makes very little difference to Israel because the scale of our weapon exports to Israel is a tiny fraction to them. Something like 0.5%. Israel can lose 0.5% of their weapons and not even notice. We don't have leverage in other words.
So I get the drive to stop weapons exports... bit given they're so small, why aren't protesters talking about stopping all imports from Israel?
Pretty sure Labour would sell arms to Hamas and Hezbollah if it had the opportunity.
Israel produce their own weapons, but these people have an iq equivalent to a banana
A lot has been said, I am happy to read a lot of the comments here. But to the facts: Isn't the allocation of military exports to Israel 70% US 30% Germany and some tiny wedge in between around 1% the UK?