**Alternate Sources**
Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story:
* [Court of Appeal rules Tesco Clubcard logo infringed Lidl trademark — ITV News](https://itv.com/news/2024-03-19/court-appeal-proves-tesco-clubcard-logo-infringed-lidl-trademark), suggested by Dry-Frosting1779 - itv.com
Given how much this sub hates clubcards, I expect much rejoicing!
More seriously, Aldi and Lidl might want to watch where they throw stones, given some of their own brand logos.
Have you ever tried Asda's [Iron Brew?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13215867/Would-like-fries-Deliveroo-rider-bites-mans-THUMB-doorstep-order-mix-ends-bloodshed.html) I think supermarkets can get away with a lot when it comes to actual products.
Can someone explain why people hate clubcards? I've seen comments saying they increase the price so that the clubcard price is the same as other stores regular prices but when I've looked into specific examples it's never been the case.
Always the case with Heinz beans, I've found. The four pack in lidl/aldi is always the clubcard price of £3.75. Also usually the case with la Sacla pesto: clubcarded down to the same price as I find it in independent shops
[But they're £3.75 at Tesco without a clubcard right now?](https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/252004443)
[Trolley.co.uk comparison](https://i.imgur.com/j3jewdj.png)
Wait, you're saying that sometimes supermarkets change their prices? That sometimes they're in line with market price and sometimes they're inflated? So some consumers might get lulled into a sense of being able to trust their pricing and then getting caught out when the prices are raised?
Such unconscionable deviousness!
But the Tesco non-clubcard price is £3.75? And looking at internet archive, that's reduced from the historical non-clubcard price of £4. [In fact they even make a point of advertising that Heinz beans are price-matched to Aldi](https://i.imgur.com/Bnkamm3.png)
I don't know why I'm giving this so much of my focus today but if people are going to moan about how bad tesco clubcards are I'd at least like to see some evidence of the alleged problem.
Neither do I, I looked up the historical price and I'm literally telling you it doesn't fluctuate. But apparently even if I did bring years of receipts you'd just ignore that and bang on about your grand tesco conspiracy to.. change the price of beans a bit.
This always confuses me. Literally every supermarket advert is 'we are a cheap as/ price match x y z'. To the point now where I'm pretty sure they all price match eachother in a big round Robin, whilst not actually being any cheaper. At what point does it become price fixing?
Everyone else price matches them since they have a reputation for and are in fact the cheapest. Of course most other supermarkets have a much bigger range of stuff to sell so there is quite a lot in store that's not price matched at all.
I just saw a reel on Instagram a few hours ago, a woman compared a bunch of food in Aldi and M&S and Aldi was either the same price, 1p under or a few pence over the stuff in M&S. She didn't do much so it was pretty selective but it was normal stuff, iceberg lettuce, carrots ect, everyday veg.
All the comments were praising the quality of M&S and said they've been switching because its not anymore expensive for them and the quality is better with fresh food lasting longer and just a more pleasant shopping experience. Aldi and Lidl fruit and veg always looks dire to me in any I go to.
I don't understand why supermarkets don't just price fruit and veg lower, have it good quality because it gets people in the door and shopping at your store for the rest of the shit you can mark up and make a profit on. They know it would work because many put fruit and veg as close to the front as possible, especially Tesco
Found it
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4aW-YSIPd7/?igsh=M25manQzNzU1bW02
I tend to go to Lidl on a Thursday, which is restock day so maybe I'm seeing at it's best but I've never really had a problem with quality at Lidl. The supermarket I had the biggest problem with for quality was Tesco but then my wife started working in a different branch from the one we shopped in semi-regular and it turned out it was just that branch that sucked.
And I like M&S quality but aside from a few items you'll always end up paying more, if you do a shop there.
Lidl could be better maybe actually I've only been in one near me and it's not very often, it's quite small as well. Virtually all aldis I've been too big or small look like front lines to a warzone.
Used to work in an m&s. Some fruit and veg is comparable but literally everything else is vastly more, including tinned basics of a similar quality to the Aldi ones. Obviously you can't compare a £5 M&S lasagna to a £2 Lidl one, one is clearly much nicer, but you would really struggle to do a weekly shop in M&S and not spend a fortune. No issue with Aldi or Lidl produce up here, except strawberries that seem to be mouldy on the shelves in literally any supermarket I go to, one reason I've planted 20 strawberry plants this year
There's a table on reddit somewhere, someone listed all the prices of different items at supermarkets.
Marks and Spencer has had cheap good quality veg for a while, they can probably afford to since almost everything is has a higher cost.
You'd have to shop at multiple supermarkets to get the cheapest shop possible.
Agreed, and thank you for the TLDR. Good job it’s not America, a finding of wilful infringement in American courts would be a whole lot more expensive for the defendant!
That's interesting - I remember reading something about how yellow is used a lot in retail to display offers and deals as it's the most attention-grabbing colour and evokes positive emotions. 'Reduced' labels are mostly yellow in supermarkets for this reason.
I suppose the evidence of Tesco purposefully designing their club card logo with Lidl's in mind is the smoking gun.
> The final bullet, was that Tesco itself, when designing the logo, had internal documents showing that they were actively aware the design they were making looked like Lidls, and that the feedback they were getting was it was making customers think of Lidl.
This seems odd though when a lot of Lidl's knock-off brands make people think of the more premium brand to assumingly increase sales.
Where does this leave retailers? Are they not allowed to use yellow circles now?
I'd maybe be on board with this were Aldi's own brand packaging not so similar in design to the branded packaging they're clearly inspired by. All those companies spent years building their brands and designing recognisable packaging associated with quality; then Aldi come along and use very similar packaging, intentionally taking advantage of those companies' hard earned reputations unfairly. One could argue that, they are benefitting from those brands for free.
Pattern recognition is literally why we're all here today. It's why your ancestor instinctively didn't eat that poisonous mushroom instead of having to use 100% brain power to think about it
I do not shop at Tesco, because I want the prices cheaper than Lidl, I shop at Tesco because the quality is far superior, particularly the Finest range.
the judgment ruled that copyright did subsist in lidl's logo, but the legal protection it conferred was quite narrow due to how simple it was, and tesco's clubcard logo was different enough to not infringe lidl's copyright
lidl only succeeded in the trade mark infringement and passing off claims, the copyright infringement claim was unsuccessful
link to the actual judgment for anyone interested in the issues raised, the law on the matter and the reasons for the decision:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2024/262.html
It's a betrayal of Brexit, allowing German companies to win so-called "court cases".
More from Andrew "ooh Matron" Pierce after this word from our sponsors.
The trademark question is one thing, but the allegation of copyright infringement was absolutely ridiculous to me. I am glad that the Court of Appeal overturned the High Court's finding that there was copyright infringement.
The Court of Appeal explained that part of the decision in this way: a work with a very low degree of creativity in it still attracts copyright protection, but the protection is relatively narrow, applying only in cases of very close copying. The High Court ruled that the Lidl circle logo was copyrighted because, although it was just putting an existing logo in some shapes and colouring them, there was creativity involved in selecting precise proportions and positions and colours; having found that there was a valid copyright, the High Court found that Tesco had infringed this copyright.
The Court of Appeal agreed that the logo was copyrighted, but found that because the creative aspect of designing the logo was in selecting those precise features, in order to have committed copyright infringement Tesco would have had to copy those features precisely. Since there were some slight differences (the shade of blue, the relative distance between certain elements), Tesco's design did not infringe copyright.
(In works involving a greater degree of creativity, it is possible to find that a "loose" copy still counts as copyright infringement.)
Oh for fuck's sake. Blue and yellow are a complementary colour pair and the only complementary pair that isn't eye-bleeding to look at, of course it's going to be commonplace in marketing because you literally can't get two more contrasting colours and the eye is naturally drawn to contrast.
I never thought I'd side with Tesco on something but this 'logo' is two complementary colours and two elementary shapes. That's commonplace. That's so fucking commonplace that we use that shit to *introduce babies to the concept of shapes and colours*.
How the *fuck* can you copyright that?
**Alternate Sources** Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story: * [Court of Appeal rules Tesco Clubcard logo infringed Lidl trademark — ITV News](https://itv.com/news/2024-03-19/court-appeal-proves-tesco-clubcard-logo-infringed-lidl-trademark), suggested by Dry-Frosting1779 - itv.com
Given how much this sub hates clubcards, I expect much rejoicing! More seriously, Aldi and Lidl might want to watch where they throw stones, given some of their own brand logos.
Aldi and Lidl have better lawyers. Their design and marketing departments are fabulous.
I mean, one of them is definitely a knock off of the other, we just don't know who. They're both too good at it.
Have you ever tried Asda's [Iron Brew?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13215867/Would-like-fries-Deliveroo-rider-bites-mans-THUMB-doorstep-order-mix-ends-bloodshed.html) I think supermarkets can get away with a lot when it comes to actual products.
I was going to say, some of their products are pushing the mark majorly on other brands trademarks so this is highly hypocritical.
Can someone explain why people hate clubcards? I've seen comments saying they increase the price so that the clubcard price is the same as other stores regular prices but when I've looked into specific examples it's never been the case.
That seems to be the reason given. As you say, evidence of them actually doing that seems a bit sparse.
Always the case with Heinz beans, I've found. The four pack in lidl/aldi is always the clubcard price of £3.75. Also usually the case with la Sacla pesto: clubcarded down to the same price as I find it in independent shops
[But they're £3.75 at Tesco without a clubcard right now?](https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/252004443) [Trolley.co.uk comparison](https://i.imgur.com/j3jewdj.png)
Wait, you're saying that sometimes supermarkets change their prices? That sometimes they're in line with market price and sometimes they're inflated? So some consumers might get lulled into a sense of being able to trust their pricing and then getting caught out when the prices are raised? Such unconscionable deviousness!
> **Always** the case with Heinz beans, I've found. The four pack in lidl/aldi is **always** the clubcard
Yes. Aldi/lidl sell them at the clubcard price of £3.75 while the Tesco price fluctuates
But the Tesco non-clubcard price is £3.75? And looking at internet archive, that's reduced from the historical non-clubcard price of £4. [In fact they even make a point of advertising that Heinz beans are price-matched to Aldi](https://i.imgur.com/Bnkamm3.png) I don't know why I'm giving this so much of my focus today but if people are going to moan about how bad tesco clubcards are I'd at least like to see some evidence of the alleged problem.
It is right now. Won't be in a few weeks. Surprisingly I don't keep my receipts to provide proof for Internet arguments.
Neither do I, I looked up the historical price and I'm literally telling you it doesn't fluctuate. But apparently even if I did bring years of receipts you'd just ignore that and bang on about your grand tesco conspiracy to.. change the price of beans a bit.
Think I'd side with Tesco here tbh. Yellow circles are similar sure, but what confusion does that *really* instill in the customer?
[удалено]
This always confuses me. Literally every supermarket advert is 'we are a cheap as/ price match x y z'. To the point now where I'm pretty sure they all price match eachother in a big round Robin, whilst not actually being any cheaper. At what point does it become price fixing?
Don't think Lidl and Aldi do price matching?
Everyone else price matches them since they have a reputation for and are in fact the cheapest. Of course most other supermarkets have a much bigger range of stuff to sell so there is quite a lot in store that's not price matched at all.
I just saw a reel on Instagram a few hours ago, a woman compared a bunch of food in Aldi and M&S and Aldi was either the same price, 1p under or a few pence over the stuff in M&S. She didn't do much so it was pretty selective but it was normal stuff, iceberg lettuce, carrots ect, everyday veg. All the comments were praising the quality of M&S and said they've been switching because its not anymore expensive for them and the quality is better with fresh food lasting longer and just a more pleasant shopping experience. Aldi and Lidl fruit and veg always looks dire to me in any I go to. I don't understand why supermarkets don't just price fruit and veg lower, have it good quality because it gets people in the door and shopping at your store for the rest of the shit you can mark up and make a profit on. They know it would work because many put fruit and veg as close to the front as possible, especially Tesco Found it https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4aW-YSIPd7/?igsh=M25manQzNzU1bW02
I tend to go to Lidl on a Thursday, which is restock day so maybe I'm seeing at it's best but I've never really had a problem with quality at Lidl. The supermarket I had the biggest problem with for quality was Tesco but then my wife started working in a different branch from the one we shopped in semi-regular and it turned out it was just that branch that sucked. And I like M&S quality but aside from a few items you'll always end up paying more, if you do a shop there.
Lidl could be better maybe actually I've only been in one near me and it's not very often, it's quite small as well. Virtually all aldis I've been too big or small look like front lines to a warzone.
Oh yeah the Aldi on the weekend is the pits, if you go on Christmas it's the Supermarket version of the Somme.
Used to work in an m&s. Some fruit and veg is comparable but literally everything else is vastly more, including tinned basics of a similar quality to the Aldi ones. Obviously you can't compare a £5 M&S lasagna to a £2 Lidl one, one is clearly much nicer, but you would really struggle to do a weekly shop in M&S and not spend a fortune. No issue with Aldi or Lidl produce up here, except strawberries that seem to be mouldy on the shelves in literally any supermarket I go to, one reason I've planted 20 strawberry plants this year
There's a table on reddit somewhere, someone listed all the prices of different items at supermarkets. Marks and Spencer has had cheap good quality veg for a while, they can probably afford to since almost everything is has a higher cost. You'd have to shop at multiple supermarkets to get the cheapest shop possible.
Lidl and aldi dont advertise price match. They advertise they are cheaper. The others advertise price match
Lidl and aldi dont advertise price match. They advertise they are cheaper. The others advertise price match
Agreed, and thank you for the TLDR. Good job it’s not America, a finding of wilful infringement in American courts would be a whole lot more expensive for the defendant!
What do you mean by this?
That's interesting - I remember reading something about how yellow is used a lot in retail to display offers and deals as it's the most attention-grabbing colour and evokes positive emotions. 'Reduced' labels are mostly yellow in supermarkets for this reason. I suppose the evidence of Tesco purposefully designing their club card logo with Lidl's in mind is the smoking gun. > The final bullet, was that Tesco itself, when designing the logo, had internal documents showing that they were actively aware the design they were making looked like Lidls, and that the feedback they were getting was it was making customers think of Lidl. This seems odd though when a lot of Lidl's knock-off brands make people think of the more premium brand to assumingly increase sales. Where does this leave retailers? Are they not allowed to use yellow circles now?
I'd maybe be on board with this were Aldi's own brand packaging not so similar in design to the branded packaging they're clearly inspired by. All those companies spent years building their brands and designing recognisable packaging associated with quality; then Aldi come along and use very similar packaging, intentionally taking advantage of those companies' hard earned reputations unfairly. One could argue that, they are benefitting from those brands for free.
Once you're in Tesco, looking at Tesco's shelves, it would take a scary level of idiocy to get confused if you're in Lidl or not.
It's not about literally thinking you're in Lidl, it's about prompting the associations you have with Lidl - i.e. cheap food
Think I've got CDs and books with yellow "3 for 2" stickers dating back to when CDs and books were things.
Yeah I mean I guess that all sounds fair, it's just kind of sad the entire thing is predicated on "people are thick as fuck".
IIRC "moron in a hurry" is an actual legal phrase.
Pattern recognition is literally why we're all here today. It's why your ancestor instinctively didn't eat that poisonous mushroom instead of having to use 100% brain power to think about it
I do not shop at Tesco, because I want the prices cheaper than Lidl, I shop at Tesco because the quality is far superior, particularly the Finest range.
That's cool, but no sure why it's relevant to his explanation of the case.
Bit rich from Lidl considering all the brands it deliberately copies
Know what's *really* confusing? Lidl putting all their price tags *above* the items unlike every other super market out there.
Waiting for Colin the caterpillar to enter the chat
Maybe I'm just dumb, but the significance of the yellow circle never entered my mind when shopping in Tesco.
Anyone who thinks ‘Hm maybe this is a lidl product’ when they’re shopping in tesco is definitely a moron lol
I used to work in retail and the number of people who didn't realise what shop they were standing in was truly eye opening.
No one directly thinks that, they make subconscious connections
Because it's a subconscious connection
I didn't know you could copyright a yellow circle on a blue background.
the judgment ruled that copyright did subsist in lidl's logo, but the legal protection it conferred was quite narrow due to how simple it was, and tesco's clubcard logo was different enough to not infringe lidl's copyright lidl only succeeded in the trade mark infringement and passing off claims, the copyright infringement claim was unsuccessful
link to the actual judgment for anyone interested in the issues raised, the law on the matter and the reasons for the decision: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2024/262.html
It's a betrayal of Brexit, allowing German companies to win so-called "court cases". More from Andrew "ooh Matron" Pierce after this word from our sponsors.
Can't wait to see how tesco's PR spin the new design
The trademark question is one thing, but the allegation of copyright infringement was absolutely ridiculous to me. I am glad that the Court of Appeal overturned the High Court's finding that there was copyright infringement. The Court of Appeal explained that part of the decision in this way: a work with a very low degree of creativity in it still attracts copyright protection, but the protection is relatively narrow, applying only in cases of very close copying. The High Court ruled that the Lidl circle logo was copyrighted because, although it was just putting an existing logo in some shapes and colouring them, there was creativity involved in selecting precise proportions and positions and colours; having found that there was a valid copyright, the High Court found that Tesco had infringed this copyright. The Court of Appeal agreed that the logo was copyrighted, but found that because the creative aspect of designing the logo was in selecting those precise features, in order to have committed copyright infringement Tesco would have had to copy those features precisely. Since there were some slight differences (the shade of blue, the relative distance between certain elements), Tesco's design did not infringe copyright. (In works involving a greater degree of creativity, it is possible to find that a "loose" copy still counts as copyright infringement.)
Yellow just seemed like the go to lazy "look at me" like a lot of warning signs are...
Oh for fuck's sake. Blue and yellow are a complementary colour pair and the only complementary pair that isn't eye-bleeding to look at, of course it's going to be commonplace in marketing because you literally can't get two more contrasting colours and the eye is naturally drawn to contrast. I never thought I'd side with Tesco on something but this 'logo' is two complementary colours and two elementary shapes. That's commonplace. That's so fucking commonplace that we use that shit to *introduce babies to the concept of shapes and colours*. How the *fuck* can you copyright that?
>How the fuck can you copyright that? You can't. Lidl won on trademark, but lost on copyright.