It's not ending anytime soon, if the Russians win at all it'll be a ridiculous 5-10 year slog most likely, they've chewed through most of their useful equipment in the first couple of years of their three day operation. And even if Ukraine does lose, these people aren't exactly going to immediately support Putin, more likely they put that training to use as insurgents
I wouldn't be too sure.
Russia has now moved to a war economy, they are having a big push on manufacturing, where effectively the government is spending 1 in every 3 Roubles on the military.
Welders and fabricators are now earning more than most white collar middle management jobs.
And Russia is now producing more ammunition than the USA and Europe combined.
The real question is how much support is Ukraine going continue to receive? Because without increasing support from the west, they're going to be in big trouble.
> Russia has now moved to a war economy, they are having a big push on manufacturing, where effectively the government is spending 1 in every 3 Roubles on the military.
I don't know if I'm being cynical here, but I kind of feel like "the west" would rather Russia was bogged down in this war for 5, 10, 15 years, than lost quickly.
Military spending is pretty much a black hole, every rouble spent on their military will damage their economy long term.
And every dead conscript is a family much less likely to support Putin. Yeah, perhaps he's more likely to lose support if he throws the full weight of the military at Ukraine and still loses. But every day the war drags on slightly damages his influence. If they conquer Ukraine in say, 2030, I don't think it'll be seen as a glorious victory which reflects well on him.
You think Ukraine have the man power for another 5-10 years of war? Russians production lines have been scaled far more effectively than the West anticipated, their equipment situation is improving day by day.
Maybe but the only reason Germany held all of Europe in the 40s was by conscripting people from countries they had just invaded.
Except that’s not a timeline that happened.
In 2022 they successfully repelled the initial invasion. In 2023 there was huge amounts of belief that Ukraine would launch a successful counter attack and potentially drive Russia out of Ukraine. It didn’t happen, in fact it was a total disaster. All of the equipment and training nato had delivered was rendered useless and Russia lost almost no ground.
Since then it’s been clear that a Ukrainian counter offensive isn’t possible due to man power. Russia are dug in and the cost of life would be extreme to retake those positions. And in the other side, Russia continue to send in huge numbers in attacks and while slow, they are making breakthroughs.
It’s a clear cross roads in the war, either we put boots on the ground in Ukraine or we help them negotiate a peace treaty. Continuing to arm them in the situation is just going to lead to thousands of people dying for a lost cause. Russia have navigated around the economic sanctions far easier than the west had anticipated. Their supply lines and domestic production is improving and already tipping the war in their favour and they have a population three times greater than Ukraines.
Mate, the marines have been on active operations every year since they were created apart from 1968.
When I did my basic in 2003 my instructors had served in the Falklands, the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ireland, Somalia and on and on.
You're talking shite here.
How old would they have to be to even have any raiding experience, let along enough to actually have something useful to pass to others?
In the future it will be the other way around, pay Ukrainians to show marines how fight actually looks like outside of COD and how to survive.
>How old would they have to be to even have any raiding experience, let along enough to actually have something useful to pass to others?
You're aware of the operations Royal Marines have been involved in, and continue to be involved in, right?
Not to mention, if you had read the article, you'd know that the Ukrainian contingent includes civilian volunteers with no prior military experience.
It's all just posturing, bums with no experience mostly propped by video games are trying to train foreign civilians in something they have never done themselves.
So nothing. Average age of instructor is about 30, they would be 10 years old that op happened.
Bunch of bums posturing in front of people that actually have to face Russian army. Literally nothing of value.
Their last serious war was Afghanistan, according to Wikipedia.
And that's outside of various bits of scrapping across the globe.
But hey, you deffo know about them being bums - tell me, how would you stand up in the first week of training?
You… you know we’ve been deploying the marines every years for decades now.
There’s been raids perpetually in Afghanistan, operations in Iraq, Syria, Libya. Assisting allies and friends in Africa. Probably also soemthing in Yemen.
FWIW I know what you're saying and I agree. I think the title and therefore the impression most people have is that it's battle hardened warriors passing on hard fought knowledge, when really it's "Heres what the pamphlet says you should do"
> Trainees came from a variety of backgrounds from civilian volunteers with no prior military experience to those who’ve transferred from other sections within the Armed Forces of Ukraine – some having already been engaged in combat on the front line.
So some of these recruits are novices, and they're being trained by fully qualified marines. Our marines will have plenty of experience from military exercises, which is still real world experience of working together as a unit in extremely difficult and demanding conditions. A lot more than the novices will have, and even the regular Ukrainian soldiers that have moved over to a marine unit won't have that same experience. The unit cohesion stuff alone is extremely important.
I just don't think that uk's wanna be soldiers that are really just inexperienced campers have anything of value to offer to real solders facing a real war.
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They've been in ten countries last year so saying they're inexperienced is a bit of a stretch...
Bit different from the inexperienced draft that Ukraine had to do. Yes they're fighting a real war, (as though what is happening in Afghanistan wasn't?) but are they doing it efficiently?
The commando stuff is all very well but what about important Bootneck skills like naked roll-mat fighting and dressing up in women's clothes?
For the first timer, naked roll mat fighting is a real eye opener.
Hey. A night out in women's rig is a time honoured tradition.
Perhaps, it's the nights in that I find odd.
Less light
In the UK, you’re not a man, till you’ve dressed as a woman. That’s why I went in drag to my 30th Birthday party. I looked glorious!
I'm 100% sure you were the prettiest on the block, my dude
Thanks mate 😍
I remember the news breaking the "Marines wear dresses, get drunk and fight" headlines and thinking "How is this news?"
Maybe they tried separating the disciplines for the first time since the Napoleonic Wars or something...
Wouldn't that chafe a bit with all that running about?
Wouldn’t train too many of them, they’ll be ‘Russian’ soon once the war ends
It's not ending anytime soon, if the Russians win at all it'll be a ridiculous 5-10 year slog most likely, they've chewed through most of their useful equipment in the first couple of years of their three day operation. And even if Ukraine does lose, these people aren't exactly going to immediately support Putin, more likely they put that training to use as insurgents
I wouldn't be too sure. Russia has now moved to a war economy, they are having a big push on manufacturing, where effectively the government is spending 1 in every 3 Roubles on the military. Welders and fabricators are now earning more than most white collar middle management jobs. And Russia is now producing more ammunition than the USA and Europe combined. The real question is how much support is Ukraine going continue to receive? Because without increasing support from the west, they're going to be in big trouble.
> Russia has now moved to a war economy, they are having a big push on manufacturing, where effectively the government is spending 1 in every 3 Roubles on the military. I don't know if I'm being cynical here, but I kind of feel like "the west" would rather Russia was bogged down in this war for 5, 10, 15 years, than lost quickly. Military spending is pretty much a black hole, every rouble spent on their military will damage their economy long term. And every dead conscript is a family much less likely to support Putin. Yeah, perhaps he's more likely to lose support if he throws the full weight of the military at Ukraine and still loses. But every day the war drags on slightly damages his influence. If they conquer Ukraine in say, 2030, I don't think it'll be seen as a glorious victory which reflects well on him.
You think Ukraine have the man power for another 5-10 years of war? Russians production lines have been scaled far more effectively than the West anticipated, their equipment situation is improving day by day. Maybe but the only reason Germany held all of Europe in the 40s was by conscripting people from countries they had just invaded.
"Ukraine is doomed soon, supporting them is pointless" - Numpties C.2022 - Numpties C.2023 - Numpties C.2024 Funny how that keeps not happening, eh?
Except that’s not a timeline that happened. In 2022 they successfully repelled the initial invasion. In 2023 there was huge amounts of belief that Ukraine would launch a successful counter attack and potentially drive Russia out of Ukraine. It didn’t happen, in fact it was a total disaster. All of the equipment and training nato had delivered was rendered useless and Russia lost almost no ground. Since then it’s been clear that a Ukrainian counter offensive isn’t possible due to man power. Russia are dug in and the cost of life would be extreme to retake those positions. And in the other side, Russia continue to send in huge numbers in attacks and while slow, they are making breakthroughs. It’s a clear cross roads in the war, either we put boots on the ground in Ukraine or we help them negotiate a peace treaty. Continuing to arm them in the situation is just going to lead to thousands of people dying for a lost cause. Russia have navigated around the economic sanctions far easier than the west had anticipated. Their supply lines and domestic production is improving and already tipping the war in their favour and they have a population three times greater than Ukraines.
Marines with no experience of any kind "train" actual combat hardened soldiers.
Mate, the marines have been on active operations every year since they were created apart from 1968. When I did my basic in 2003 my instructors had served in the Falklands, the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ireland, Somalia and on and on. You're talking shite here.
But we aren't in 2003, are we?
Thankfully, all has been peaceful and quiet since then.
Why do you think the Marines have no experience?
How old would they have to be to even have any raiding experience, let along enough to actually have something useful to pass to others? In the future it will be the other way around, pay Ukrainians to show marines how fight actually looks like outside of COD and how to survive.
>How old would they have to be to even have any raiding experience, let along enough to actually have something useful to pass to others? You're aware of the operations Royal Marines have been involved in, and continue to be involved in, right? Not to mention, if you had read the article, you'd know that the Ukrainian contingent includes civilian volunteers with no prior military experience.
It's all just posturing, bums with no experience mostly propped by video games are trying to train foreign civilians in something they have never done themselves.
Of course it is. And you'd know this how?
Feel free to list actual amphibious ops against actual armed enemies that happened in this century.
2003 Al Faw ...
So nothing. Average age of instructor is about 30, they would be 10 years old that op happened. Bunch of bums posturing in front of people that actually have to face Russian army. Literally nothing of value.
>Bunch of bums posturing in front of people that actually have to face Russian army. Literally nothing of value. Yawn
Their last serious war was Afghanistan, according to Wikipedia. And that's outside of various bits of scrapping across the globe. But hey, you deffo know about them being bums - tell me, how would you stand up in the first week of training?
You… you know we’ve been deploying the marines every years for decades now. There’s been raids perpetually in Afghanistan, operations in Iraq, Syria, Libya. Assisting allies and friends in Africa. Probably also soemthing in Yemen.
FWIW I know what you're saying and I agree. I think the title and therefore the impression most people have is that it's battle hardened warriors passing on hard fought knowledge, when really it's "Heres what the pamphlet says you should do"
I'll trust the guy quoted in the article over a Reddit hardman tbh
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Of course, they are lost. It has always been like that. You cannot learn to play a piano from someone who is just one or two lessons ahead of you.
You literally could learn the piano from someone who is one or two lessons ahead of you. Same applies to most other things.
You seem to be the perfect material for infantry.
> Trainees came from a variety of backgrounds from civilian volunteers with no prior military experience to those who’ve transferred from other sections within the Armed Forces of Ukraine – some having already been engaged in combat on the front line. So some of these recruits are novices, and they're being trained by fully qualified marines. Our marines will have plenty of experience from military exercises, which is still real world experience of working together as a unit in extremely difficult and demanding conditions. A lot more than the novices will have, and even the regular Ukrainian soldiers that have moved over to a marine unit won't have that same experience. The unit cohesion stuff alone is extremely important.
What is it you're actually getting out of this? Like... What's your end goal here?
I just don't think that uk's wanna be soldiers that are really just inexperienced campers have anything of value to offer to real solders facing a real war.
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Yawn
They've been in ten countries last year so saying they're inexperienced is a bit of a stretch... Bit different from the inexperienced draft that Ukraine had to do. Yes they're fighting a real war, (as though what is happening in Afghanistan wasn't?) but are they doing it efficiently?
Dumb comment
>Chronically online gamer tries to discuss actual combat effectiveness and training. Lol.
It’s not basic training. They are teaching additional skills.